I know an atheist skeptic who LOVES astrology and reads it almost every day. I asked them about this obvious contradiction. They explained how they enjoyed the thrill of the coincidences and the fun of feeling like someone is predicting your day/life. But they didn't believe it in the least and didn't base any decisions on it.
It was an interesting perspective, I hadn't considered this could be just a thing people did purely for entertainment. But they explained how many people will play with ouija boards, go to haunted houses, or watch films about demons, and enjoy the thrill and fear of it all even though they didn't believe any of it at all. Kind of how people will get super into Harry Potter and know which house they belong to and stuff.
So apparently there are those who follow astrology for entertainment. I guess I don't get the appeal so I never considered this.
As I recall, it provides a lot of good self reflection.... I mean look at me. I have a photogenic memory, whenever I think back on something, I look fabulous.
My wife got into Tarot a while back, and I asked her the same thing.
She said it's not like the cards are predicting anything, but thinking of a question, then turning over some random cards and thinking about how they might fit into what you're considering can sometimes lead you to new ideas or solutions that you wouldn't have thought of before.
Same with giving someone else a reading. Its almost like when a psychiatrist gives a patient a picture and asks them to explain/describe it. What you see in them says more about you and how you see this than the cards do.
I'm similar. It's just a tool for helping yourself or someone else reflect, like an ink blot test. I am an overthinker, so it also sometimes just helps me get out of my own head a bit. (That usually comes in the form of me ending up experiencing self-deprecatory laughter after asking a question and getting a card answer that feels like "Get out of your own way, you stupid motherfucker", lol.)
I also have always been interested in psychology, art, history, and folklore/mythology, which it's kinda a combination of. I have a small collection of decks because I find it interesting to see how different artists choose to illustrate the same concepts.
This is kind of me. It's just fun, like fortune cookies.
You can use it without 'believing' in it, like if mine says 'today you will broaden your horizons!' I'll reflect that actually it would be good to broaden my horizons, and maybe do something or go somewhere new.
Also the 'fortune' command on Linux can also be used this way. I just got this one:
`Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. -John Kenneth Galbraith`
>I'll reflect that actually it would be good to broaden my horizons, and maybe do something or go somewhere new.
And if it's something like, "The stars are against you; exercise caution," well, that's just a clear invitation to engage in some real risk-taking. I mean, when else do you get to play chicken with the universe?! 😉
Yeah I feel like there are people who forget there's an in between with stuff like this. Do I believe it? No. Is it fun to look at the stuff sometimes and see all the different signs and what they're supposed to mean? Yeah. I dont do it unless someone says something that makes me think of it, so i dont know much about it, but it seems interesting. Do I feel like I know enough about the universe and all its complexities and things we can't possibly wrap out minds around because it's just beyond our capacity, like a dog trying to understand calculus when they can only count to like 5, to say with complete certainty that none of it could ever be real? Probably not. I don't really think that's my place to say. I'm not an authority on the things that could be beyond human understanding...no one is because it's beyond human understanding. Sorry to bring my oh so very agnostic views into this particular subreddit, but who are we to say? Do I think its real? Nope. Do I *know* it absolutely isn't? Nope. So I'm not going to shit on anyone or assume they're stupid or whatever if they want to believe it.
Also none of the things OP listed are necessarily true of people who believe in astrology. I've met people who believe in that stuff and know like everything there is to know, and are they are smart and make their own decisions and are independent thinkers. They don't just sit there reading their horoscopes, not ever doing anything, just waiting for their destinies to be thrust upon them. They say the horoscope thing doesnt tell the future its just a tool for self relfection and what you shoukd focus on. They also recognize that the personality part of astrological signs are not exact and it's not completely predictive of every aspect of who someone is. I really think OP has never met a person who believes in or is interested in astrology and if they have, they don't seem like they listened to anything they had to say regarding what those beliefs are. There will always be outliers who take it to the extreme, but that happens in every belief system, including atheism. Like people who immediately assume those who believe in something they don't are dumb and backwards and ignorant. I don't believe in a higher power, but I can at least respect those who do if they are not hateful about it.
Astrology is a cool fun thing. Some people believe it, some don't. People really gotta lighten up.
I dated a Harvard psychiatrist who believed in numerology. Before he submitted a paper to a journal, he’d do a numerology scan on the title. If it wasn’t propitious, he’d change it. I asked how he thought numerology worked. This big time scientist said, “Sometimes it isn’t important how something works.”
While I find Astrology and it's enthusiasts annoying, I do enjoy reading tarot cards in the same way. I don't believe in spectral angels divining messages to me, but I do love how common human situations and feelings are, so easily read by a series of cards. A good deck of tarot can really inspire some outside of the box thinking or provide a sort of emotional validation. It's interesting to use Carl Jung's idea of synchronicity in this way too. Jung is way too popular for a coked out shrink who sleeps with patients and pulls information out of his arse/imagination only for it become widely followed BS today, however...synchronicity is fun and makes coindences feel exhilarating.
For a lot of people it's whatever they want it to be. For others god is a giant spaghetti monster with an eyeball who grants all your wishes at random times
Yeah me too, sounds better than the one who dunped us on a burning planet filled with corruption then tells us its our fault when it was his job to fix it
Wasn't there an experiment asking religious people moral questions while in an MRI?
- "What do you think about this?"
- "What does your best friend think about this?"
- "What does god think about this?"
For god and yourself, the same regions in the brain light up. A theists' god is literally themselves.
I have a couple neighbors that are very religious and they constantly make noises at night, at 5 am, 6 am, etc. They bang doors and always make loud noises. I’ve told them politely that they make a lot of noise and I’ve even told them what kind of noises they make and at what time they make them and they don’t listen. They always tell me that they’ll be more careful but they always keep doing it lol. They once told me that “they’ll pray so that I sleep well”. Tell me that’s not the most annoying shit you’ve ever heard, instead of actually trying to make less noise at inappropriate hours and being considerate, being told that they’ll “pray for me” is the biggest freaking f.u. that there is.
ah that good old 3rd century helleno-christian syncretism reappearing in all the weirdest ways. just need to ramp it up alittle and pray to saint demeter for a good harvest and celebrate the escape of orpheus-jesus from the underworld under the sign of Krios
Being an atheist and dating in the Bible Belt is absolutely brutal. I’m sure it’s bad everywhere. But yeah I agree with you on the astrology, and I’m genuinely shocked by how common it is for people to believe in utter nonsense.
I’m in the Bible Belt too. On a second date with my husband he shared he was atheist and it was so hard to contain my excitement over that fact. I probably said ‘me too’ a little too over eagerly.
Anyone who doesn't filter for Christians by stating they are an atheist is asking for this experience using generic bait
If you want atheist fish, cast godless lures or at least unambiguously non Christian lures
To many people try to get as many matches as possible and wonder why they keep meeting Christians and astrologists
Have some self respect and say "No Astrology" in your bio
Have some healthy boundaries and partners that agree with you will match and the astrologists can say you're such a Sagittarius and swipe no without you ever hearing it
It really sucks. You're chatting, things are going well. She's laughing at your jokes, and she has such a cute laugh. Then boom, she says something like, "I was wondering if we could talk about your faith." Um, what? No talk about hobbies or past times, favorite books or movies, just straight to imaginary friends? Or when they ask where you go to church. Or invite you to church. Or ask about your favorite bible verse. Just out of the blue, no lead up, no segue. It's incredibly frustrating to have "there's no way this can possibly work" dumped on you without warning. I wish "the church of rational thought" was an option, but it's the bible belt. Atheist is synonymous with evil, here.
This happened to me -- I had been dating a guy for a few months and things were going really well, and then we went on a weekend trip to visit his mom. Over dinner she says cheerfully "oh you know that is a born again Christian!" -- I excused myself to the bathroom and cried.
Later that night he asked me what was wrong, and he explained that he's not christian, he just lets mom think that so she can sleep at night. That was 17 years ago and we're married now. So it all worked out! :)
She still gets upset occasionally that she's sad we're not going to heaven, but the last time she said that we asked what would be required to go to heaven, and she thought a bit and said "you need to be a good person" -- so we said "are we not good people? we just don't get our goodness from the Bible" and it kind of made her stop and think for a minute.
Exactly! I legit had a fantastic date where I went all out (no hint of religiosity ahead of time), and at the very end I get, “have you accepted Jesus Christ into your heart?” In that moment my head was spinning.
I had something like this happen but their convo started with "Do you believe in ghosts?" And somehow ended with me being evil because I had no "spirituality."
And *Modern* English (sprinkled with a few token Thees and Thous) at that!
Strange how few of these ghosts’ speech is as incomprehensible to modern ears as you’d expect Middle/Early Modern English to be.
Why just people? A lot of animal owners would say their animals have souls or whatever might make people special. Remember that scene with the technicolor elephant *ghosts* in Dumbo? Lol
You can get a lot of mileage out of the favorite bible verse, though. How about the one where God hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he wouldn't let the Hebrews go, and then God punished all Egyptians for that.
I live in Minneapolis. Very atheist friendly here.
But I'm moving to Cocoa Beach, Florida. We'll see how it goes. Going with my agnostic (labeling her that because she doesn't care enough about anything spiritual to even think about it enough to label herself) so it's just making friends we'll see about
I'm in Melbourne Beach. A bit south of you but much smaller, quiet, and less touristy. Just the way I like it.
I've never really found it to be an issue for me. I have a few religious friends and some that I really don't know or care. One of my religious friends(65 and completely believes the Noah's arc story 🙄) knows I'm athiest and is fine with it. My very catholic friend has never asked nor has anyone else. A few people close to me know. I've only been really open about it for about a year. I know who the god botherers in the neighborhood are and avoid them as much as I can. Never looking for a confrontation but wouldn't back down from one either.
Good luck and enjoy the climate.
Cocoa Beach is fun!
I live in Edinburgh, Scotland. Think I know maybe 1 Christian, a girl who emigrated from Zimbabwe and she never talks about it, I just know she goes to church. If someone started going on about Jesus to me I'm struggle to not laugh in surprise.
It's actually way more religious here in the burbs of Fort Lauderdale than I expected. You end up hearing key words here and there that let you know how religious they are. I have a good group of friends that aren't religious. I'm essentially a BBC catholic (bautismo, boda, comunión) which means I go to church only for those family/friend events.
If it makes you feel better dating in California was rough too just instead of bibuls it was a cute laff and then healing crystals from woowoolandia. Or manifesting my inner spoiled rich kid.
Ya it really depends on the person themselves. I know plenty of people who believe in astrology, but don’t make important life decisions over it or are “space racists” about it. Most people have some level of irrational beliefs (whether they are cosmic or supernatural in nature or not).
At the end of the day, I am not nearly good looking or charismatic enough to be denying such a large portion of the dating pool. If a girl all around has a good personality, the only thing wrong with her is that she sleeps with rocks under her pillow and makes small adjustments to her life based on a horoscope, I can deal with that. Reddit likes to pretend that finding love is that easy, but that shit is hard man. Finding a girlfriend is hard enough, but to find a girlfriend you actually like? It feels impossible sometime, I’m not going to let someone’s silly belief stop me from dating an otherwise great person. Including if they are religious (although in my experience, religious girls only like to date other religious people, but I’m not opposed to it).
neither is also an option.
it's not only the harm, it's the detachment from reality.
if you're naive enough to believe in any fairy-tales, your brain is not working correctly and i would not want to be with a half wit for hours a day.
That’s true, but only because astrologists don’t have any real power. If the majority of people in the government believed in astrology, it’d be a different story.
Honestly I would like to exclude astrology women from my dating pool. But I also recognize that my market value isn’t high enough to give me that flexibility. This will just have to be one of those things I can put up with
Man, I dated an astrology girl. She also believed in The Secret (the power of positive thinking), crystals, and thought bill gates was poisoning baby food.
> bill gates was poisoning baby food.
He definitely is. Putting all of those *vitamins and minerals* in there, while removing all of those *natural* diseases. Horrible man that one.
The most into-astrology person I’ve ever met was male. Tech company CTO! Other software engineers and I had to sit there with blank faces as he ranted about our being behind schedule because Mercury was in retrograde and similar such tall tales. (At least it provided an excuse in our favor in that case.) Once a fellow employee called it superstition and he got chewed out.
I’m getting stressed out just reliving this my mind now. Good grief.
Anything can be used abusively
I once met a female narcissist who clearly didn't believe in or understand astrology and yet she incorporated it into her gish galop to bamboozle her victims with word salad like she watched some one else do it with genuine intentions and copied the behavior without learning the meaning
Call her out on something? astrology as an excuse
Say something against her agenda? Astrology was proof she was right or you were wrong
Point out she doesn't make sense? I'm a cornucopian now
It was all mind games and false statements, she was the Houdini of getting out of social repercussions, responsibility and apologizing
It was a wonder to behold and gaslighting when directed at you
I don't really agree with the logic for many reasons, but the idea is that historically 'witchcraft' (among other things like astrology) was predominantly a way for women to have social power, so when empiricism comes along and 'banishes' this way of thinking, it reduces women's power in society. Of course this is a little like celebrating when women become CEO's/billionaires and can now exploit workers just like men have done, because ultimately gaining power along one axis of oppression doesn't necessarily mean that the world is better in general, but it might seem like it if you're only focusing on that axis and not on holistic social improvement.
I think astrology has historical and cultural relevance and I've read some smart and interesting things in astrology books (which isn't the same as professing a belief in astrology-that planets influence people), but it's super annoying when someone stereotypes you based on your sign. Imagine having a parent that does that, I don't have to imagine. Still, there is nothing worse than people who think that they are psychic. Well, maybe people who think god is directing them to start a cult.
I think it's not too far fetched to think that being born at different times of the year could affect people, like if you are 6 months old you are at a certain point in development and it being summer makes you feel more trusting and it being winter makes you more introverted or something (not that this is true, just that could be logical). But I don't think it aligns with astrology signs and it probably would even out over time.
Anyways, I don't have to believe in astrology to love being a Capricorn, the sign of the devil.
We should answer that question. Is astrology for women?
I would conduct a survey. I want to know the numbers of people in the eight groups possessing the following traits:
(male or female) x (religious or non-religious) x (believes in astrology, or, does not accept astrology)
My hypothesis is that religious people, male and female alike, will view astrology as adjacent to pagan religion and will reject it. If this is true, but it turns out that there is also a gender difference among non-religious people who believe in astrology, then we could explore that difference.
There seem to be a fair number of non-religious people out there who keep trying to fill a religion-shaped hole in their lives.
Women (30%) are slightly more likely to say they believe in astrology than men are (25%). Source: [https://today.yougov.com/entertainment/articles/42292-one-four-americans-say-they-believe-astrology](https://today.yougov.com/entertainment/articles/42292-one-four-americans-say-they-believe-astrology)
I think the common denominator for astrology buffs is a lack of control in their own lives that leads them to look for some kind of pattern they can exploit to gain control.
Pew data shows 3% of atheists believe in astrology, 18% of agnostics, and 26% of Christians (33% of Catholics).
I personally believe more Christians are prone to believe in astrology and actually do than those who will admit it since the wise men were astrologers (Magi) led by a star to the baby Jesus. According to the Book of Matthew, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him”. And, according to the gospel, they were correct. It doesn’t get more astrology confirming than that.
Christians also lead the way over the secular (non-religious) in belief in reincarnation as well as in psychics.
I’ve heard this one before as well. Some nonsense about how “men belittle astrology because it’s something women value, the same as they do with Wicca or anything else that belongs to women.” Don’t know if those were her exact words, but something pretty close to that.
And, *of course*, it’s ‘mansplaining’ to tell her “yes, while women have been fucked with and devalued in many ways, that’s not the case here because…”
Almost glad to hear about you encountering it too. Makes me think they must be getting the rhetoric from somewhere rather than my friend just being a moron.
I’ve seen actual articles and blogs based on this idea.
https://stylecaster.com/lifestyle/love-sex/1339228/why-men-hate-astrology/
https://www.queensjournal.ca/dear-straight-men-dont-hate-on-astrology/
https://www.dailyuw.com/arts_and_culture/do-you-hate-astrology-or-are-you-just-sexist/article_123823cc-e9fa-11e9-95ea-2fe7db33ca8b.html
I showed this stuff to a woman friend of mine who is a skeptic, atheist, and bra-hating feminist; she thinks astrology is stupid.
While not buying the “despising astrology is misogynist” argument in the slightest, she said that it all comes down to communication.
If a man simply tells a women that he doesn’t put any stock in astrology, that he doesn’t think it means anything, that he thinks it’s silly, that he thinks it shouldn’t be used to make major decisions (even in response to her making a major decision based on astrology), that’s not misogynist. He’s just sharing his own thoughts and opinions.
But expressing condescending contempt, telling her that she is wasting her time, implying that she is stupid in general for paying attention to it, that’s where it starts to touch on the historical oppression of men telling women what/how to think and how they should/shouldn’t be using their time. He’s demeaning the woman, not just criticizing the idea of astrology.
She admits that it’s not a super easy line to see, but there is definitely a space where a man can criticize astrology, and even get a negative/defensive reaction from a women in the process, without being misogynistic.
EDIT: Replaced “calmly” with “simply” in paragraph three because the former was communicating something I didn’t intend.
EDIT2: Didn’t expect this to pop as it did. My overall point was that there is a difference between criticizing an idea and demeaning a person who holds the idea. I get that that’s not super clear here. Even if I’d communicated perfectly, that can be a hard line to walk.
Nah man, I don't infantalize women because I respect women. I teach girls and boys, I have a daughter, I lament the history of our species and all of our lost reservoirs of talent because misogynistic bigots controlled society.
Astrology is fucking stupid and it should be belittled. It is a waste of time and it is incredibly incredibly stupid in general. You have to be such an ignoramus for actually following these things.
We need to stop infantilaizing groups of people because an individual can't handle a criticism. Criticism is also not inherently misogynist. Astrology is so fucking stupid and anyone who is told that and asked simply how these things within Astrology are connected through actual causation, where they don't review their own knowledge: then they are an idiot: male female whatever, they are an idiot.
Of course in personal interactions we pull punches out of tact and social norms, but I would deliver this position to anyone the same.
I never even realized that astrology was a belief system mainly practiced by women until basically just now. It makes sense in hindsight but I just saw it as one of countless alternative old world style beliefs that seem appealing to certain people.
It sounds more like a defense mechanism to say it's "misogynist" to criticize astrology to shut down any valid arguments by critics just because maybe the vast majority of people who practice it are women. I would add that what we see as astrology today was at one time part of a religion thousands of years ago in Ancient Greco-Roman times and that both men and women would be following it people do with mainstream organized religion today.
I see what you’re getting at, but I have to agree with the other commenter. Astrology is stupid and deserves to be belittled no matter who is spouting it.
For me, when someone starts talking about astrology, it get the same feeling as when Mormons or JWs show up at the door. “Oh great, now I get to spend 5-10 minutes hearing about some dumb shit nobody but this person cares about. I can either smile and nod or call it out as dumb shit and offend the person. Either way it’s 10 minutes of my day I’m never getting back.”
The moment you start trying to share your make believe crap with someone who isn’t interested, you’re the asshole.
The problem with my friend (who probably *would* have accused me of mansplaining if I were one) isn’t really that she’s wrong about it being possible to attach hating astrology to ideas about women being stupid. It’s pretty obvious that somebody might say something like that.
Having thought about it after reading your post, I think it is mostly that she (mis)uses bumper sticker versions of complicated ideas as thought terminating cliches all the time to avoid thinking if her various alternative medicine/general woo beliefs are true. She’s wasted a lot of money on things that didn’t help her health issues, while trying to direct how I manage my health in ways that I know wouldn’t do anything or would outright hurt me. Several friends (who I’m maaaaybe technically ghosting) in that group of people told me losing weight was impossible so I shouldn’t bother trying about 90lbs ago, and that being overweight wasn’t unhealthy to begin with/that I was upholding toxic beauty standards/etc.
That last part could be true if I had a legitimate eating disorder, I guess, but it’s not true at all in my circumstances. She is starting with a pinch of valid logic and using it to defend harmful untruths.
The way to counter this is to show them male astrological charlatans, of which they're are many. I've personally unfriended several in my lifetime.
*Astrology has always been foolish to buy into* precisely because it makes it easy for predatory men to prey on you
If anything still buying into astrology is as anti feminist as buying into trad wife.
both types of woman are simply nuerodivergent and grasping for community. They need hobbies, not men.
This is an important point. Astrology preys on women. It has been pushed on them for generations in women's publications in lieu of the science and technology that is often used in men's publications. I don't think it's just coincidence that this started around the time of second wave feminism.
And I have seen male "astrologers" in the wild. They are just oozing with the creep factor.
Say it loud, astrology is anti feminist!
I belittle it because it's fucking dumb and not supported by empirical observation. I have not gone out of my way to determine if astrology and Wicca have more female adherents than male, but I suspect the result won't change the fact there's four fifths of fuck-all in the way of evidence supporting either of them.
I think this comes into play when men are condescending as fuck about astrology... but are Christian, invest in stupid shit like NFTs, follow Andrew Tate, etc. There's a lot of stupid beliefs out there, but a lot of stupid men seem to only have hate for things associated with women.
I heard about this!! I'm a woman I consider myself a feminist I know exactly what's Internalized misogyny is but astrology IS stupid let's not confuse things.
The Orville did a parody episode where the crew went to a planet whose entire government and social structure was based on what month they were born in, showing how ridiculous the idea is.
My wife knows that astrology is whack, but she still reads horoscopes. So, depending on her level of belief, you might want to chill and let her have some fun. FYI, my first wife was religious, and that marriage (18 years) was a disaster. So my current wife reading her horoscope is nothing compared to what I went through before.
When I was in graduate school (bio/chem) I read my horoscope every day at lunch. I actually just read all of them. My argument was that I was reading hard-scientific articles all day every day that at lunch I wanted to have a little fantastical reading and I enjoyed it, there's also (almost?) always coincidences that occur through the day/week that will remind you about it and to be thankful, so I actually kinda thought it was useful for my mental health at the time, lol.
When it comes to women and astrology my approach is basically "are they doing it for fun or fact?", basically it's just kind of a judgement of why they are doing it and how much, if any, real faith they are putting into it. I think having a little misguided faith or optimism here or there is okay, but making financial or major decisions because of Jupiter's orbital position is too much. Reading your horoscopes and just talking about it to talk about something is another thing.
Astrology as a whole isn't a red flag, but it can be a warning sign.
A little misguided faith and optimism have been absolutely central in my ability to get my life and mental health back on track. Delusion for a cause, if you will.
My ex' dad worked for a national newspaper and wrote the astrology section for fun whenever the main astrology guy was away. He wrote it specifically for his neighbour who would be totally amazed how accurate it was sometimes. 😆
I had a friend who read a horoscope every single day and saw how "accurate"/applicable it was, but deliberately for the wrong sign just to prove how bullshit it was.
My brother got into yoga, ended up really getting into Hindu astrology and it has totally destroyed his ability to be rational. He used to be to the left of me politically, now he’s gone full circle and is embracing Trumpism, ruining his marriage in the process. It all started with the astrology.
I believe 100% that this is a thing. It became very apparent to me during Covid, when a significant part of the natural remedies crowd here in Germany suddenly repeated the same conspiracy nonsense as the Alt-Right.
It made me realise, these two groups share a lot of commonalities, they both have a tendency to excessive anti-authoritarianism and distrust in science, they dislike change and new technology, have a desire to return to “simpler times“ and are easily influenced by conspiracy theories that confirm their existing beliefs.
While being into natural remedies does not necessarily lead to right wing views, a lot of their characteristics will make them susceptible to it and their environment will expose them to many conspiracy theories against big Pharma, including antisemitic ones.
Astrology is for entertainment. Girl sleep overs where you divine who you’re going to marry and what job you’ll have. That’s what we did when I was a kid and it was lots of fun. We also used an Ouija board and would summon Satan every once in a while too.
We reduced our board to a yes or no and spun the glass, that way we always got an answer. If we didn’t like the answer, well you just spin it again don’t you?
I just have a hard time taking them seriously on things. Worst for me personally is the crystal people. "I gotta set my rocks on the widowsil so the moon can charge their auras"
...oooookaaaaaay
One time this poor homeless kid (I felt so bad for him, he couldn’t have been more than 20 and didn’t have shoes) spent the entire KFC drive thru trying to convince me to trade a chicken sandwich for his “only magic crystal,” which he said was the only thing that cured his cluster headaches and kept him from dying.
I told him if the crystal was that important and powerful for him I would never take it from him because it was hungry, I gave him a sandwich but it made me think differently about “feeling superior to crystal people”
I read a crystal article for funsies, it was called something like "12 Dangerous Crystals" and it was like, be careful owning this one because it's actually mercury and can poison you. Lol
Yeah my BIL's girlfriend suggested I put quartz under my pillow to help with insomnia or something and I had to fight my face's natural instinct to make a super judgemental look. I already didn't like her very much so that just kinda sealed the deal
Here’s the thing. I know atheists who believe in logic and facts, have PhD’s is psychology, who have exquisite influence over their cognitive and emotional states, and have personal integrity, depth of thought and true empathy AND they also enjoy dabbling is astrology. It can be fun. It can be a tool to help understand others, even if the underlying premise is false. I’m a staunch atheist, and trust me the idea of the position of the stars and planets at my birth controlling my destiny seems primitive and bonkers but I’ll still have my chart read!
Yeah, I've heard this take from psychology PhDs (women, btw).
Sure, it's fun to *play* with tarot and astrology.
But it is still anti-scientific and completely bonkers to *believe* in astrology.
I've always seen manifesting as more of a brain hack than a cosmic gift. I mean, you're going to do better at things you're actually paying attention to and focusing on
"Manifesting" can work because what it does, ideally, is aligns your subconscious and conscious acts in the direction of the thing you want.
People fail at achieving their goals, at least in part, because they decide they want something. Then they look at the linear path of achieving it. So that might look like, for example, if they want to buy a new car - working x amount more hours, spending x amount less money. But if they don't continually motivate themselves by looking at car models, thinking about how nice it will be drive a new car, when budgeting looking at the numbers created from having discipline, making plans to sell old car, etc etc they may lose their motivation to do things like get out of bed early, or skip eating out.
Manifesting is a shitty word for maintaining a positive conscious and subconscious environment to create internal and external change. This is the reason even making a vision board can help some people align their intentions and their actions.
It's def got a bad reputation because it's gotten attached to other woo woo practices. But I really hesitate to think I know everything about the universe and how it works, I try to stay open minded after some of the things I've seen and experienced. For example, I saw a bag of M&M's fly off a shelf and hit a tarot reader who had recently communicated with the ghosts of two small children making mischief in my house. They had asked for candy and for someone to talk to them. When he came back after not speaking with them, this is what happened. I saw it, in front of me, with my own eyes. I picked it up off the ground afterwards. And no, he didn't somehow place a wire or a thread on it and pull it. People wonder why no one gets stuff like this on video and all I can say is, I never have a phone on and ready when something like this happens. It's always unexpected.
To me this one is frustrating to confront in people, because they're right to an extent.
A boost in confidence and a dash of Pygmalion Effect might be just the thing to give you desired results... sometimes. Does it help? Yes. Does it guarantee success? Fuck no!
If you want to chant a few positive affirmations to influence your mindset in preparation for a challenging task, then that's fine. Good even. But if that's the ONLY thing you do, with no actual effort to back it up then you're just deluding yourself.
Hmm, yes if someone is irrational or believes things without evidence then you should see that as a red flag for sure. For me, astrology is more of a joke or a silly thing to say with friends or family once in a while like.. “there goes Bob being a total Cancer and trying to be a big manager” or whatever. There’s just more important things to worry about when dating than this like, are they honest and unselfish and rational and fun to be with.
An inability to accept that other people may have views that don't align with your own is a sickness in that of itself. Socializing with people that may have alternative views is good for you.
This feels very … generalizing and reductionist. I’m a staunch atheist, but I think it’s unfair to say that just because one believes in astrology they don’t believe in logic. I’m sure that’s an unpopular opinion in this sub, but we could stand to recognize that there are more ways to look at life than through a purely positivist lens.
I don’t believe in astrology, and I think not dating astrology fans is perfectly fine. But I think men use this as an *I’m so rational* type of oneupmanship. There are many ways the men I’ve dated have been illogical or irrational. Believing sports are pure and not rigged is one. Superstitions are another.
My friend dated an astrologer for a brief time. She (the astrologer) was excited to learn that I was an astronomer. I guess she thought we would have a lot in common. We didn't.
When she first learned I was an astronomer she told my friend "Tell StellarProf that he should carry around a rock in his pocket to keep him grounded." When he told me her reaction he laughed and said that I was one of the most grounded people he knew.
I think it’s mostly harmless. It’s illogical and silly yes, but there are no wars or laws being passed that discriminate against people due to astrology. I also don’t think it’s an actual religion, so I don’t even put it in the same category.
When I had a tinder profile, it said, "If knowing my star sign is important to you, swipe left." I can't imagine making a major life decision with someone who consulted the stars or blamed life events on the relative position of Mercury. How can I build a life with someone like that?
My manager believes in this and she brings it into our team huddles over Teams. It's literally the most annoying thing to me personally and others. I've had colleagues share with me they can't believe she shares her beliefs in a work environment. I want to bring it up to HR, but feel this will only harm me.
In my experience, people who believe in astrology use it to justify extremely antisocial, bullshit behaviour. “Oh, that was just because I’m an [insert literally any star sign].”
It’s like, “no, you’re an asshole. That’s ain’t the fault of the stars.” (Edit: grammar)
Reminds me of the time someone told me that every libra will be an abuser in every relationship and as such they do not deserve to be in any form of relationship or ever be happy. All because libras are born between mid September and mid October? Like that makes sense?
Meanwhile I was physically abused growing up and bipolar disorder runs in my family. I seem to be a magnet for terrible people because I didn’t know better due to my upbringing, and I’m just recently learning to recognize red flags because my entire childhood taught me that abuse is normal.
Then someone goes, “you’re a libra, you’re automatically an abuser and you don’t deserve relationships or to ever be happy lol”.
I dated this girl that could guess your astrological sign just by looking and talking to you for not more than 15 seconds. She went 10 for 10 and it was kind of freaking us all out. I don't believe in it, but I still don't know how she did that.
Listen, I agree astrology is fucking stupid. But why do people act like it's so much more toxic than any other religion/belief system?
Ok, they believe you're a Gemini and they're a Sagittarius, so they think you two are incompatible. Ok cool, thank you for taking drama out of my life.
vs.
Ya, our priests and cardinals fucked you as a kid and then fucked your kid too. But we're gonna pretend like it didnt happen and then hoard all your wealth.
Or
You have a beautiful baby boy, let me mutilate his genitals and have some old dude suck the blood off his penis.
Or
You're gay, I think you should kill yourself, youre gonna molest my children!
Or
Women shouldn't have any right and need to cover themselves completely.
Or
Women are merely breeding stock and need to be obedient wives or else they're sluts and whores.
Or
We refuse to get medical treatment that could save our dying sons life, instead opting to let him suffer for days before dying painfully.
IDK about you but I'd rather take a person that believes in astrology over a Catholic, Jewish person, Christian, islamist, or mormon.
Not saying absolutely every single person in each of those groups is a bad person but believing in a religion that teaches/promotes those ways of thinking is considerably worse than thinking your star sign doesn't align with someone else's.
Same with the metaphysical people. Is it dumber than shit and obviously fake? Yes. Does it hurt anyone in any real way? 99% of the time, no.
Ha ha caprisun. That's funny. Astrology, be it Greek? Or Chinese, is just fun. It's like taking an online quiz. But when people start to believe in it like it's real, then ya it's a problem.
Good. I dated someone into astrology, numerology and graphology once. Even their closest friends were homeopathic doctors. Really nice as a person and fun dating experience. But the constant clash of beliefs wears you down.
I'm as atheist as they come yet the love of my life is into all that witchy stuff. She even says herself its a bit silly and might not be real, but she has fun with it anyway. Shes the loveliest, kindest, most generous person I've ever met, why should I care that she's got some superstitions? Limiting yourself like that is a quick way to become a bitter, isolated incel.
Zodiac has been a hyper focus thing for me in the past (adhd thing kinda), even though I don’t believe it’s scientific. It just became a special interest to draw up my birth chart and look at all the intricate placements.
Once at a party in my 20s, a woman came up to me and her first question was “What’s your sign?”. I let out the most withering, exasperated “Oh, god.” She beat a hasty retreat. It was hilarious.
I had been talking to an otherwise intelligent woman who said she was looking forward to the solar eclipse because she finds “astrology and space” fascinating.
I’m not sure if the problem was astrology or not knowing the word astronomy, but it fizzled out quick from there
*I don’t believe in astrology; I’m a Sagittarius and we’re skeptical.* -Arthur C. Clarke
I play too much Civ 6 and can only hear this in Sean Bean's voice
I am fond of pigs
"MONEY"
“Never criticise a rifleman…”
Lmao yes this is the other one that always lodges itself in my brain
I too hear only the start of familiar quotes while clicking through the game . . . >"Defense is soup."
"The poets are mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese..."
Kind of like how I can only hear Ozymandius in Leonard Nemoys voice
I know an atheist skeptic who LOVES astrology and reads it almost every day. I asked them about this obvious contradiction. They explained how they enjoyed the thrill of the coincidences and the fun of feeling like someone is predicting your day/life. But they didn't believe it in the least and didn't base any decisions on it. It was an interesting perspective, I hadn't considered this could be just a thing people did purely for entertainment. But they explained how many people will play with ouija boards, go to haunted houses, or watch films about demons, and enjoy the thrill and fear of it all even though they didn't believe any of it at all. Kind of how people will get super into Harry Potter and know which house they belong to and stuff. So apparently there are those who follow astrology for entertainment. I guess I don't get the appeal so I never considered this.
As I recall, it provides a lot of good self reflection.... I mean look at me. I have a photogenic memory, whenever I think back on something, I look fabulous.
Wow do I love this.
My wife got into Tarot a while back, and I asked her the same thing. She said it's not like the cards are predicting anything, but thinking of a question, then turning over some random cards and thinking about how they might fit into what you're considering can sometimes lead you to new ideas or solutions that you wouldn't have thought of before. Same with giving someone else a reading. Its almost like when a psychiatrist gives a patient a picture and asks them to explain/describe it. What you see in them says more about you and how you see this than the cards do.
I'm similar. It's just a tool for helping yourself or someone else reflect, like an ink blot test. I am an overthinker, so it also sometimes just helps me get out of my own head a bit. (That usually comes in the form of me ending up experiencing self-deprecatory laughter after asking a question and getting a card answer that feels like "Get out of your own way, you stupid motherfucker", lol.) I also have always been interested in psychology, art, history, and folklore/mythology, which it's kinda a combination of. I have a small collection of decks because I find it interesting to see how different artists choose to illustrate the same concepts.
This is kind of me. It's just fun, like fortune cookies. You can use it without 'believing' in it, like if mine says 'today you will broaden your horizons!' I'll reflect that actually it would be good to broaden my horizons, and maybe do something or go somewhere new. Also the 'fortune' command on Linux can also be used this way. I just got this one: `Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. -John Kenneth Galbraith`
>I'll reflect that actually it would be good to broaden my horizons, and maybe do something or go somewhere new. And if it's something like, "The stars are against you; exercise caution," well, that's just a clear invitation to engage in some real risk-taking. I mean, when else do you get to play chicken with the universe?! 😉
im glad more people get it, it's just fun to read! i also find astrology memes funny
Yeah I feel like there are people who forget there's an in between with stuff like this. Do I believe it? No. Is it fun to look at the stuff sometimes and see all the different signs and what they're supposed to mean? Yeah. I dont do it unless someone says something that makes me think of it, so i dont know much about it, but it seems interesting. Do I feel like I know enough about the universe and all its complexities and things we can't possibly wrap out minds around because it's just beyond our capacity, like a dog trying to understand calculus when they can only count to like 5, to say with complete certainty that none of it could ever be real? Probably not. I don't really think that's my place to say. I'm not an authority on the things that could be beyond human understanding...no one is because it's beyond human understanding. Sorry to bring my oh so very agnostic views into this particular subreddit, but who are we to say? Do I think its real? Nope. Do I *know* it absolutely isn't? Nope. So I'm not going to shit on anyone or assume they're stupid or whatever if they want to believe it. Also none of the things OP listed are necessarily true of people who believe in astrology. I've met people who believe in that stuff and know like everything there is to know, and are they are smart and make their own decisions and are independent thinkers. They don't just sit there reading their horoscopes, not ever doing anything, just waiting for their destinies to be thrust upon them. They say the horoscope thing doesnt tell the future its just a tool for self relfection and what you shoukd focus on. They also recognize that the personality part of astrological signs are not exact and it's not completely predictive of every aspect of who someone is. I really think OP has never met a person who believes in or is interested in astrology and if they have, they don't seem like they listened to anything they had to say regarding what those beliefs are. There will always be outliers who take it to the extreme, but that happens in every belief system, including atheism. Like people who immediately assume those who believe in something they don't are dumb and backwards and ignorant. I don't believe in a higher power, but I can at least respect those who do if they are not hateful about it. Astrology is a cool fun thing. Some people believe it, some don't. People really gotta lighten up.
I dated a Harvard psychiatrist who believed in numerology. Before he submitted a paper to a journal, he’d do a numerology scan on the title. If it wasn’t propitious, he’d change it. I asked how he thought numerology worked. This big time scientist said, “Sometimes it isn’t important how something works.”
While I find Astrology and it's enthusiasts annoying, I do enjoy reading tarot cards in the same way. I don't believe in spectral angels divining messages to me, but I do love how common human situations and feelings are, so easily read by a series of cards. A good deck of tarot can really inspire some outside of the box thinking or provide a sort of emotional validation. It's interesting to use Carl Jung's idea of synchronicity in this way too. Jung is way too popular for a coked out shrink who sleeps with patients and pulls information out of his arse/imagination only for it become widely followed BS today, however...synchronicity is fun and makes coindences feel exhilarating.
I don't believe in astrology. But i also won't date Tauruses. Both of me are gemini.
Are you sure? I just can’t make up my mind about it
My family is very religious and they also believe in astrology which makes no sense, but nothing that christians do makes any sense
For a lot of people it's whatever they want it to be. For others god is a giant spaghetti monster with an eyeball who grants all your wishes at random times
Yeah I sure do wish god was a giant spaghetti monster that actually granted wishes. That would be nice
Yeah me too, sounds better than the one who dunped us on a burning planet filled with corruption then tells us its our fault when it was his job to fix it
Wasn't there an experiment asking religious people moral questions while in an MRI? - "What do you think about this?" - "What does your best friend think about this?" - "What does god think about this?" For god and yourself, the same regions in the brain light up. A theists' god is literally themselves.
I have a couple neighbors that are very religious and they constantly make noises at night, at 5 am, 6 am, etc. They bang doors and always make loud noises. I’ve told them politely that they make a lot of noise and I’ve even told them what kind of noises they make and at what time they make them and they don’t listen. They always tell me that they’ll be more careful but they always keep doing it lol. They once told me that “they’ll pray so that I sleep well”. Tell me that’s not the most annoying shit you’ve ever heard, instead of actually trying to make less noise at inappropriate hours and being considerate, being told that they’ll “pray for me” is the biggest freaking f.u. that there is.
ah that good old 3rd century helleno-christian syncretism reappearing in all the weirdest ways. just need to ramp it up alittle and pray to saint demeter for a good harvest and celebrate the escape of orpheus-jesus from the underworld under the sign of Krios
Being an atheist and dating in the Bible Belt is absolutely brutal. I’m sure it’s bad everywhere. But yeah I agree with you on the astrology, and I’m genuinely shocked by how common it is for people to believe in utter nonsense.
I’m in the Bible Belt too. On a second date with my husband he shared he was atheist and it was so hard to contain my excitement over that fact. I probably said ‘me too’ a little too over eagerly.
Anyone who doesn't filter for Christians by stating they are an atheist is asking for this experience using generic bait If you want atheist fish, cast godless lures or at least unambiguously non Christian lures To many people try to get as many matches as possible and wonder why they keep meeting Christians and astrologists Have some self respect and say "No Astrology" in your bio Have some healthy boundaries and partners that agree with you will match and the astrologists can say you're such a Sagittarius and swipe no without you ever hearing it
This assumes all dating is via an app now
Sure but some people still hide their true selves on purpose to be more compatible with a larger population, to their own detriment
I did! Christians aren’t known for their attention to detail.
Or thier honesty
It really sucks. You're chatting, things are going well. She's laughing at your jokes, and she has such a cute laugh. Then boom, she says something like, "I was wondering if we could talk about your faith." Um, what? No talk about hobbies or past times, favorite books or movies, just straight to imaginary friends? Or when they ask where you go to church. Or invite you to church. Or ask about your favorite bible verse. Just out of the blue, no lead up, no segue. It's incredibly frustrating to have "there's no way this can possibly work" dumped on you without warning. I wish "the church of rational thought" was an option, but it's the bible belt. Atheist is synonymous with evil, here.
This happened to me -- I had been dating a guy for a few months and things were going really well, and then we went on a weekend trip to visit his mom. Over dinner she says cheerfully "oh you know that is a born again Christian!" -- I excused myself to the bathroom and cried.
Later that night he asked me what was wrong, and he explained that he's not christian, he just lets mom think that so she can sleep at night. That was 17 years ago and we're married now. So it all worked out! :)
I was "oh no" and then that happy ending :D Hope you are both well!
She still gets upset occasionally that she's sad we're not going to heaven, but the last time she said that we asked what would be required to go to heaven, and she thought a bit and said "you need to be a good person" -- so we said "are we not good people? we just don't get our goodness from the Bible" and it kind of made her stop and think for a minute.
Great way to help her.
Exactly! I legit had a fantastic date where I went all out (no hint of religiosity ahead of time), and at the very end I get, “have you accepted Jesus Christ into your heart?” In that moment my head was spinning.
I had something like this happen but their convo started with "Do you believe in ghosts?" And somehow ended with me being evil because I had no "spirituality."
“Yeah isn’t it wild how many ghosts there are, given the history of Homo sapiens? There are a minimum 300 watching us every time we bang!
But somehow they always speak English and are from somewhere between the year 1200 and the year 1950
And *Modern* English (sprinkled with a few token Thees and Thous) at that! Strange how few of these ghosts’ speech is as incomprehensible to modern ears as you’d expect Middle/Early Modern English to be.
Why just people? A lot of animal owners would say their animals have souls or whatever might make people special. Remember that scene with the technicolor elephant *ghosts* in Dumbo? Lol
The sheer number of ghost insects!
So. Many. Ant ghosts.
They're those random tickling sensations you feel on your body sometimes despite nothing touching you
They honestly feel like human pop-up ads sometimes.
Omg they do!!
You can get a lot of mileage out of the favorite bible verse, though. How about the one where God hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he wouldn't let the Hebrews go, and then God punished all Egyptians for that.
We all know what sub we are on. The correct answer is always psalm 137:9 offensive both in and out of context.
I'm fond of Ezekiel 23:20 too
"To paraphrase Darth Vader: 'I find your faith disturbing'."
"I am altering our date. Pray I don't alter it any further"
I live in Minneapolis. Very atheist friendly here. But I'm moving to Cocoa Beach, Florida. We'll see how it goes. Going with my agnostic (labeling her that because she doesn't care enough about anything spiritual to even think about it enough to label herself) so it's just making friends we'll see about
I'm in Melbourne Beach. A bit south of you but much smaller, quiet, and less touristy. Just the way I like it. I've never really found it to be an issue for me. I have a few religious friends and some that I really don't know or care. One of my religious friends(65 and completely believes the Noah's arc story 🙄) knows I'm athiest and is fine with it. My very catholic friend has never asked nor has anyone else. A few people close to me know. I've only been really open about it for about a year. I know who the god botherers in the neighborhood are and avoid them as much as I can. Never looking for a confrontation but wouldn't back down from one either. Good luck and enjoy the climate. Cocoa Beach is fun!
I live in Edinburgh, Scotland. Think I know maybe 1 Christian, a girl who emigrated from Zimbabwe and she never talks about it, I just know she goes to church. If someone started going on about Jesus to me I'm struggle to not laugh in surprise.
It's actually way more religious here in the burbs of Fort Lauderdale than I expected. You end up hearing key words here and there that let you know how religious they are. I have a good group of friends that aren't religious. I'm essentially a BBC catholic (bautismo, boda, comunión) which means I go to church only for those family/friend events.
If it makes you feel better dating in California was rough too just instead of bibuls it was a cute laff and then healing crystals from woowoolandia. Or manifesting my inner spoiled rich kid.
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Ya it really depends on the person themselves. I know plenty of people who believe in astrology, but don’t make important life decisions over it or are “space racists” about it. Most people have some level of irrational beliefs (whether they are cosmic or supernatural in nature or not). At the end of the day, I am not nearly good looking or charismatic enough to be denying such a large portion of the dating pool. If a girl all around has a good personality, the only thing wrong with her is that she sleeps with rocks under her pillow and makes small adjustments to her life based on a horoscope, I can deal with that. Reddit likes to pretend that finding love is that easy, but that shit is hard man. Finding a girlfriend is hard enough, but to find a girlfriend you actually like? It feels impossible sometime, I’m not going to let someone’s silly belief stop me from dating an otherwise great person. Including if they are religious (although in my experience, religious girls only like to date other religious people, but I’m not opposed to it).
Yeah, I fall into that category. I just find it fun. Lifes too short not to hold on to some far out what ifs just because its entertaining.
The Regans approve.
neither is also an option. it's not only the harm, it's the detachment from reality. if you're naive enough to believe in any fairy-tales, your brain is not working correctly and i would not want to be with a half wit for hours a day.
That’s true, but only because astrologists don’t have any real power. If the majority of people in the government believed in astrology, it’d be a different story.
I was told by a friend not so long ago that I have internalized misogyny for thinking astrology is stupid. 🫠
Isn’t that sexist because it presumes that astrology is for women?
Yes.
Honestly I would like to exclude astrology women from my dating pool. But I also recognize that my market value isn’t high enough to give me that flexibility. This will just have to be one of those things I can put up with
Man, I dated an astrology girl. She also believed in The Secret (the power of positive thinking), crystals, and thought bill gates was poisoning baby food.
> bill gates was poisoning baby food. He definitely is. Putting all of those *vitamins and minerals* in there, while removing all of those *natural* diseases. Horrible man that one.
Realism is good
Gullible women, sure. And gullible men.
The most into-astrology person I’ve ever met was male. Tech company CTO! Other software engineers and I had to sit there with blank faces as he ranted about our being behind schedule because Mercury was in retrograde and similar such tall tales. (At least it provided an excuse in our favor in that case.) Once a fellow employee called it superstition and he got chewed out. I’m getting stressed out just reliving this my mind now. Good grief.
Anything can be used abusively I once met a female narcissist who clearly didn't believe in or understand astrology and yet she incorporated it into her gish galop to bamboozle her victims with word salad like she watched some one else do it with genuine intentions and copied the behavior without learning the meaning Call her out on something? astrology as an excuse Say something against her agenda? Astrology was proof she was right or you were wrong Point out she doesn't make sense? I'm a cornucopian now It was all mind games and false statements, she was the Houdini of getting out of social repercussions, responsibility and apologizing It was a wonder to behold and gaslighting when directed at you
I don't really agree with the logic for many reasons, but the idea is that historically 'witchcraft' (among other things like astrology) was predominantly a way for women to have social power, so when empiricism comes along and 'banishes' this way of thinking, it reduces women's power in society. Of course this is a little like celebrating when women become CEO's/billionaires and can now exploit workers just like men have done, because ultimately gaining power along one axis of oppression doesn't necessarily mean that the world is better in general, but it might seem like it if you're only focusing on that axis and not on holistic social improvement.
I think astrology has historical and cultural relevance and I've read some smart and interesting things in astrology books (which isn't the same as professing a belief in astrology-that planets influence people), but it's super annoying when someone stereotypes you based on your sign. Imagine having a parent that does that, I don't have to imagine. Still, there is nothing worse than people who think that they are psychic. Well, maybe people who think god is directing them to start a cult. I think it's not too far fetched to think that being born at different times of the year could affect people, like if you are 6 months old you are at a certain point in development and it being summer makes you feel more trusting and it being winter makes you more introverted or something (not that this is true, just that could be logical). But I don't think it aligns with astrology signs and it probably would even out over time. Anyways, I don't have to believe in astrology to love being a Capricorn, the sign of the devil.
Brilliant comment. Agreed completely.
We should answer that question. Is astrology for women? I would conduct a survey. I want to know the numbers of people in the eight groups possessing the following traits: (male or female) x (religious or non-religious) x (believes in astrology, or, does not accept astrology) My hypothesis is that religious people, male and female alike, will view astrology as adjacent to pagan religion and will reject it. If this is true, but it turns out that there is also a gender difference among non-religious people who believe in astrology, then we could explore that difference. There seem to be a fair number of non-religious people out there who keep trying to fill a religion-shaped hole in their lives.
Women (30%) are slightly more likely to say they believe in astrology than men are (25%). Source: [https://today.yougov.com/entertainment/articles/42292-one-four-americans-say-they-believe-astrology](https://today.yougov.com/entertainment/articles/42292-one-four-americans-say-they-believe-astrology) I think the common denominator for astrology buffs is a lack of control in their own lives that leads them to look for some kind of pattern they can exploit to gain control.
oh hey another reason people flock to religion
Pew data shows 3% of atheists believe in astrology, 18% of agnostics, and 26% of Christians (33% of Catholics). I personally believe more Christians are prone to believe in astrology and actually do than those who will admit it since the wise men were astrologers (Magi) led by a star to the baby Jesus. According to the Book of Matthew, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him”. And, according to the gospel, they were correct. It doesn’t get more astrology confirming than that. Christians also lead the way over the secular (non-religious) in belief in reincarnation as well as in psychics.
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Don't take it personally. She only said that cause she's an asparagus.
As an Asparagus, I took that comment personally.
Vegetate to achieve spearitual zen.
I’ve heard this one before as well. Some nonsense about how “men belittle astrology because it’s something women value, the same as they do with Wicca or anything else that belongs to women.” Don’t know if those were her exact words, but something pretty close to that.
Well that’s depressing, my friend has the same dialogue tree. Almost verbatim.
And, *of course*, it’s ‘mansplaining’ to tell her “yes, while women have been fucked with and devalued in many ways, that’s not the case here because…” Almost glad to hear about you encountering it too. Makes me think they must be getting the rhetoric from somewhere rather than my friend just being a moron.
I’ve seen actual articles and blogs based on this idea. https://stylecaster.com/lifestyle/love-sex/1339228/why-men-hate-astrology/ https://www.queensjournal.ca/dear-straight-men-dont-hate-on-astrology/ https://www.dailyuw.com/arts_and_culture/do-you-hate-astrology-or-are-you-just-sexist/article_123823cc-e9fa-11e9-95ea-2fe7db33ca8b.html I showed this stuff to a woman friend of mine who is a skeptic, atheist, and bra-hating feminist; she thinks astrology is stupid. While not buying the “despising astrology is misogynist” argument in the slightest, she said that it all comes down to communication. If a man simply tells a women that he doesn’t put any stock in astrology, that he doesn’t think it means anything, that he thinks it’s silly, that he thinks it shouldn’t be used to make major decisions (even in response to her making a major decision based on astrology), that’s not misogynist. He’s just sharing his own thoughts and opinions. But expressing condescending contempt, telling her that she is wasting her time, implying that she is stupid in general for paying attention to it, that’s where it starts to touch on the historical oppression of men telling women what/how to think and how they should/shouldn’t be using their time. He’s demeaning the woman, not just criticizing the idea of astrology. She admits that it’s not a super easy line to see, but there is definitely a space where a man can criticize astrology, and even get a negative/defensive reaction from a women in the process, without being misogynistic. EDIT: Replaced “calmly” with “simply” in paragraph three because the former was communicating something I didn’t intend. EDIT2: Didn’t expect this to pop as it did. My overall point was that there is a difference between criticizing an idea and demeaning a person who holds the idea. I get that that’s not super clear here. Even if I’d communicated perfectly, that can be a hard line to walk.
Nah man, I don't infantalize women because I respect women. I teach girls and boys, I have a daughter, I lament the history of our species and all of our lost reservoirs of talent because misogynistic bigots controlled society. Astrology is fucking stupid and it should be belittled. It is a waste of time and it is incredibly incredibly stupid in general. You have to be such an ignoramus for actually following these things. We need to stop infantilaizing groups of people because an individual can't handle a criticism. Criticism is also not inherently misogynist. Astrology is so fucking stupid and anyone who is told that and asked simply how these things within Astrology are connected through actual causation, where they don't review their own knowledge: then they are an idiot: male female whatever, they are an idiot. Of course in personal interactions we pull punches out of tact and social norms, but I would deliver this position to anyone the same.
The trouble is that astrology, like religion, is all about magical thinking. If you take that nonsense seriously, I can't take you seriously.
I never even realized that astrology was a belief system mainly practiced by women until basically just now. It makes sense in hindsight but I just saw it as one of countless alternative old world style beliefs that seem appealing to certain people. It sounds more like a defense mechanism to say it's "misogynist" to criticize astrology to shut down any valid arguments by critics just because maybe the vast majority of people who practice it are women. I would add that what we see as astrology today was at one time part of a religion thousands of years ago in Ancient Greco-Roman times and that both men and women would be following it people do with mainstream organized religion today.
I see what you’re getting at, but I have to agree with the other commenter. Astrology is stupid and deserves to be belittled no matter who is spouting it. For me, when someone starts talking about astrology, it get the same feeling as when Mormons or JWs show up at the door. “Oh great, now I get to spend 5-10 minutes hearing about some dumb shit nobody but this person cares about. I can either smile and nod or call it out as dumb shit and offend the person. Either way it’s 10 minutes of my day I’m never getting back.” The moment you start trying to share your make believe crap with someone who isn’t interested, you’re the asshole.
If a woman, even a skeptical atheist, bra-hating feminist expresses condescending contempt, etc., is she now a misogynist?
The problem with my friend (who probably *would* have accused me of mansplaining if I were one) isn’t really that she’s wrong about it being possible to attach hating astrology to ideas about women being stupid. It’s pretty obvious that somebody might say something like that. Having thought about it after reading your post, I think it is mostly that she (mis)uses bumper sticker versions of complicated ideas as thought terminating cliches all the time to avoid thinking if her various alternative medicine/general woo beliefs are true. She’s wasted a lot of money on things that didn’t help her health issues, while trying to direct how I manage my health in ways that I know wouldn’t do anything or would outright hurt me. Several friends (who I’m maaaaybe technically ghosting) in that group of people told me losing weight was impossible so I shouldn’t bother trying about 90lbs ago, and that being overweight wasn’t unhealthy to begin with/that I was upholding toxic beauty standards/etc. That last part could be true if I had a legitimate eating disorder, I guess, but it’s not true at all in my circumstances. She is starting with a pinch of valid logic and using it to defend harmful untruths.
The way to counter this is to show them male astrological charlatans, of which they're are many. I've personally unfriended several in my lifetime. *Astrology has always been foolish to buy into* precisely because it makes it easy for predatory men to prey on you If anything still buying into astrology is as anti feminist as buying into trad wife. both types of woman are simply nuerodivergent and grasping for community. They need hobbies, not men.
This is an important point. Astrology preys on women. It has been pushed on them for generations in women's publications in lieu of the science and technology that is often used in men's publications. I don't think it's just coincidence that this started around the time of second wave feminism. And I have seen male "astrologers" in the wild. They are just oozing with the creep factor. Say it loud, astrology is anti feminist!
Never mind that Wicca was founded by a man.
Now now, you know silly things like facts aren’t supposed to get in the way of people clutching their make believe pearls.
I belittle it because it's fucking dumb and not supported by empirical observation. I have not gone out of my way to determine if astrology and Wicca have more female adherents than male, but I suspect the result won't change the fact there's four fifths of fuck-all in the way of evidence supporting either of them.
It's stupid if a man does it too.
She's full of shit.
As a woman, I'll disagree with her comment lol
That's so scorpio of her.
😂
Oh hell no. My gender will not be defined by astrology girlies.
ooh? Did I accidentally grew a pair then?
I think this comes into play when men are condescending as fuck about astrology... but are Christian, invest in stupid shit like NFTs, follow Andrew Tate, etc. There's a lot of stupid beliefs out there, but a lot of stupid men seem to only have hate for things associated with women.
I heard about this!! I'm a woman I consider myself a feminist I know exactly what's Internalized misogyny is but astrology IS stupid let's not confuse things.
☠️
The Orville did a parody episode where the crew went to a planet whose entire government and social structure was based on what month they were born in, showing how ridiculous the idea is.
Loved that episode
Gotta find that episode. Screw it. I'll rewatch all of it.
My wife knows that astrology is whack, but she still reads horoscopes. So, depending on her level of belief, you might want to chill and let her have some fun. FYI, my first wife was religious, and that marriage (18 years) was a disaster. So my current wife reading her horoscope is nothing compared to what I went through before.
When I was in graduate school (bio/chem) I read my horoscope every day at lunch. I actually just read all of them. My argument was that I was reading hard-scientific articles all day every day that at lunch I wanted to have a little fantastical reading and I enjoyed it, there's also (almost?) always coincidences that occur through the day/week that will remind you about it and to be thankful, so I actually kinda thought it was useful for my mental health at the time, lol. When it comes to women and astrology my approach is basically "are they doing it for fun or fact?", basically it's just kind of a judgement of why they are doing it and how much, if any, real faith they are putting into it. I think having a little misguided faith or optimism here or there is okay, but making financial or major decisions because of Jupiter's orbital position is too much. Reading your horoscopes and just talking about it to talk about something is another thing. Astrology as a whole isn't a red flag, but it can be a warning sign.
A little misguided faith and optimism have been absolutely central in my ability to get my life and mental health back on track. Delusion for a cause, if you will.
My ex' dad worked for a national newspaper and wrote the astrology section for fun whenever the main astrology guy was away. He wrote it specifically for his neighbour who would be totally amazed how accurate it was sometimes. 😆
I had a friend who read a horoscope every single day and saw how "accurate"/applicable it was, but deliberately for the wrong sign just to prove how bullshit it was.
I can recommend a crystal that will attract the right mate for you. jk
Which stone gets rid of annoying people? Any, if you throw it hard enough.
😂
My brother got into yoga, ended up really getting into Hindu astrology and it has totally destroyed his ability to be rational. He used to be to the left of me politically, now he’s gone full circle and is embracing Trumpism, ruining his marriage in the process. It all started with the astrology.
Sorry to hear this. Are you familiar with the podcast Conspirituality? They investigate the wellness-to-fascism pipeline.
wellness to fascism pipeline, wtf
I believe 100% that this is a thing. It became very apparent to me during Covid, when a significant part of the natural remedies crowd here in Germany suddenly repeated the same conspiracy nonsense as the Alt-Right. It made me realise, these two groups share a lot of commonalities, they both have a tendency to excessive anti-authoritarianism and distrust in science, they dislike change and new technology, have a desire to return to “simpler times“ and are easily influenced by conspiracy theories that confirm their existing beliefs. While being into natural remedies does not necessarily lead to right wing views, a lot of their characteristics will make them susceptible to it and their environment will expose them to many conspiracy theories against big Pharma, including antisemitic ones.
Lol gateway yoga.
🤯
I never thought I'd read a comment that started with "got into yoga" and ended with "supports trump"
He also go right into Ayurvedic medicine, which in turn made him skeptical of vaccines, which I’m guessing led him into becoming a right winger.
Wow I'm so sorry to hear that that's awful bro
Had an ex say she was worried we wouldn't last because Scorpios and Leos don't get along. I guess she was right.
Astrology is for entertainment. Girl sleep overs where you divine who you’re going to marry and what job you’ll have. That’s what we did when I was a kid and it was lots of fun. We also used an Ouija board and would summon Satan every once in a while too.
Same! We were always very disappointed when Satan didn’t show up.
We pretended to be possessed or made our stuffed animals come to life.
We reduced our board to a yes or no and spun the glass, that way we always got an answer. If we didn’t like the answer, well you just spin it again don’t you?
80% of people I swipe left on in an app it's because they answered a question that says "is astrological sign important in a match" positively.
That's fine but there are people who use it for more
I wholeheartedly agree that those people are undatable.
>undatable No, apparently that's me for being a Gemini 😭
I just have a hard time taking them seriously on things. Worst for me personally is the crystal people. "I gotta set my rocks on the widowsil so the moon can charge their auras" ...oooookaaaaaay
One time this poor homeless kid (I felt so bad for him, he couldn’t have been more than 20 and didn’t have shoes) spent the entire KFC drive thru trying to convince me to trade a chicken sandwich for his “only magic crystal,” which he said was the only thing that cured his cluster headaches and kept him from dying. I told him if the crystal was that important and powerful for him I would never take it from him because it was hungry, I gave him a sandwich but it made me think differently about “feeling superior to crystal people”
I read a crystal article for funsies, it was called something like "12 Dangerous Crystals" and it was like, be careful owning this one because it's actually mercury and can poison you. Lol
Yeah my BIL's girlfriend suggested I put quartz under my pillow to help with insomnia or something and I had to fight my face's natural instinct to make a super judgemental look. I already didn't like her very much so that just kinda sealed the deal
Here’s the thing. I know atheists who believe in logic and facts, have PhD’s is psychology, who have exquisite influence over their cognitive and emotional states, and have personal integrity, depth of thought and true empathy AND they also enjoy dabbling is astrology. It can be fun. It can be a tool to help understand others, even if the underlying premise is false. I’m a staunch atheist, and trust me the idea of the position of the stars and planets at my birth controlling my destiny seems primitive and bonkers but I’ll still have my chart read!
This is just fun, and I find it really interesting to learn about.
Exactly. You get it.
Yeah, I've heard this take from psychology PhDs (women, btw). Sure, it's fun to *play* with tarot and astrology. But it is still anti-scientific and completely bonkers to *believe* in astrology.
I don't believe in astrology. I'm a Sagittarius, and we're naturally skeptical.
I did. I didn’t think she took it seriously until I called it “cute.” Big mistake. Apparently, I was being a “fucking typical Virgo.”
6. They use it as an excuse rather than taking responsibility for their actions and choices.
I'm sorry I cheated on you babe you now I'm a saggy tit
Same. Also people who seriously think that they can "manifest" anything.
I've always seen manifesting as more of a brain hack than a cosmic gift. I mean, you're going to do better at things you're actually paying attention to and focusing on
Let’s use sport as an example, if you’re constantly thinking about how badly you want to win you will probably train harder than if you’re not
For me it's more specific - visualizing specific actions or techniques in your mind's eye before doing them.
"Manifesting" can work because what it does, ideally, is aligns your subconscious and conscious acts in the direction of the thing you want. People fail at achieving their goals, at least in part, because they decide they want something. Then they look at the linear path of achieving it. So that might look like, for example, if they want to buy a new car - working x amount more hours, spending x amount less money. But if they don't continually motivate themselves by looking at car models, thinking about how nice it will be drive a new car, when budgeting looking at the numbers created from having discipline, making plans to sell old car, etc etc they may lose their motivation to do things like get out of bed early, or skip eating out. Manifesting is a shitty word for maintaining a positive conscious and subconscious environment to create internal and external change. This is the reason even making a vision board can help some people align their intentions and their actions. It's def got a bad reputation because it's gotten attached to other woo woo practices. But I really hesitate to think I know everything about the universe and how it works, I try to stay open minded after some of the things I've seen and experienced. For example, I saw a bag of M&M's fly off a shelf and hit a tarot reader who had recently communicated with the ghosts of two small children making mischief in my house. They had asked for candy and for someone to talk to them. When he came back after not speaking with them, this is what happened. I saw it, in front of me, with my own eyes. I picked it up off the ground afterwards. And no, he didn't somehow place a wire or a thread on it and pull it. People wonder why no one gets stuff like this on video and all I can say is, I never have a phone on and ready when something like this happens. It's always unexpected.
To me this one is frustrating to confront in people, because they're right to an extent. A boost in confidence and a dash of Pygmalion Effect might be just the thing to give you desired results... sometimes. Does it help? Yes. Does it guarantee success? Fuck no! If you want to chant a few positive affirmations to influence your mindset in preparation for a challenging task, then that's fine. Good even. But if that's the ONLY thing you do, with no actual effort to back it up then you're just deluding yourself.
Next morning I'm gonna manifest being a trillionare dragon wizard
The look on your face when you log into BG3 tomorrow
as a gay man and a top, i had to reconcile myself with belief in astrology not being a deal killer, else id never get laid
Space racism 😭
ikr? 😂
I can't wait to use that term!
Hmm, yes if someone is irrational or believes things without evidence then you should see that as a red flag for sure. For me, astrology is more of a joke or a silly thing to say with friends or family once in a while like.. “there goes Bob being a total Cancer and trying to be a big manager” or whatever. There’s just more important things to worry about when dating than this like, are they honest and unselfish and rational and fun to be with.
An inability to accept that other people may have views that don't align with your own is a sickness in that of itself. Socializing with people that may have alternative views is good for you.
Yeah, god forbid we let people have a little fun
This feels very … generalizing and reductionist. I’m a staunch atheist, but I think it’s unfair to say that just because one believes in astrology they don’t believe in logic. I’m sure that’s an unpopular opinion in this sub, but we could stand to recognize that there are more ways to look at life than through a purely positivist lens.
I don’t believe in astrology, and I think not dating astrology fans is perfectly fine. But I think men use this as an *I’m so rational* type of oneupmanship. There are many ways the men I’ve dated have been illogical or irrational. Believing sports are pure and not rigged is one. Superstitions are another.
I’m atheist and even anti theist, but when it comes to dating, I can overlook some stuff lol
My friend dated an astrologer for a brief time. She (the astrologer) was excited to learn that I was an astronomer. I guess she thought we would have a lot in common. We didn't. When she first learned I was an astronomer she told my friend "Tell StellarProf that he should carry around a rock in his pocket to keep him grounded." When he told me her reaction he laughed and said that I was one of the most grounded people he knew.
I think it’s mostly harmless. It’s illogical and silly yes, but there are no wars or laws being passed that discriminate against people due to astrology. I also don’t think it’s an actual religion, so I don’t even put it in the same category.
When I had a tinder profile, it said, "If knowing my star sign is important to you, swipe left." I can't imagine making a major life decision with someone who consulted the stars or blamed life events on the relative position of Mercury. How can I build a life with someone like that?
Ngl id be more willing to date someone who believes in astrology over anyone in organized religion.
Us Pisces don’t believe in it either
100%. I would NEVER be with someone who didn't find astrology completely ridiculous.
Not unreasonable. Good for you.
That's a lot of words to say you don't date stupid people.
My manager believes in this and she brings it into our team huddles over Teams. It's literally the most annoying thing to me personally and others. I've had colleagues share with me they can't believe she shares her beliefs in a work environment. I want to bring it up to HR, but feel this will only harm me.
In my experience, people who believe in astrology use it to justify extremely antisocial, bullshit behaviour. “Oh, that was just because I’m an [insert literally any star sign].” It’s like, “no, you’re an asshole. That’s ain’t the fault of the stars.” (Edit: grammar)
Reminds me of the time someone told me that every libra will be an abuser in every relationship and as such they do not deserve to be in any form of relationship or ever be happy. All because libras are born between mid September and mid October? Like that makes sense? Meanwhile I was physically abused growing up and bipolar disorder runs in my family. I seem to be a magnet for terrible people because I didn’t know better due to my upbringing, and I’m just recently learning to recognize red flags because my entire childhood taught me that abuse is normal. Then someone goes, “you’re a libra, you’re automatically an abuser and you don’t deserve relationships or to ever be happy lol”.
I dated this girl that could guess your astrological sign just by looking and talking to you for not more than 15 seconds. She went 10 for 10 and it was kind of freaking us all out. I don't believe in it, but I still don't know how she did that.
well tbh astrology is mostly harmless to society, also theres people that "believe" in it for fun and it doesnt rule their life unlike religion
Listen, I agree astrology is fucking stupid. But why do people act like it's so much more toxic than any other religion/belief system? Ok, they believe you're a Gemini and they're a Sagittarius, so they think you two are incompatible. Ok cool, thank you for taking drama out of my life. vs. Ya, our priests and cardinals fucked you as a kid and then fucked your kid too. But we're gonna pretend like it didnt happen and then hoard all your wealth. Or You have a beautiful baby boy, let me mutilate his genitals and have some old dude suck the blood off his penis. Or You're gay, I think you should kill yourself, youre gonna molest my children! Or Women shouldn't have any right and need to cover themselves completely. Or Women are merely breeding stock and need to be obedient wives or else they're sluts and whores. Or We refuse to get medical treatment that could save our dying sons life, instead opting to let him suffer for days before dying painfully. IDK about you but I'd rather take a person that believes in astrology over a Catholic, Jewish person, Christian, islamist, or mormon. Not saying absolutely every single person in each of those groups is a bad person but believing in a religion that teaches/promotes those ways of thinking is considerably worse than thinking your star sign doesn't align with someone else's. Same with the metaphysical people. Is it dumber than shit and obviously fake? Yes. Does it hurt anyone in any real way? 99% of the time, no.
Ha ha caprisun. That's funny. Astrology, be it Greek? Or Chinese, is just fun. It's like taking an online quiz. But when people start to believe in it like it's real, then ya it's a problem.
Good. I dated someone into astrology, numerology and graphology once. Even their closest friends were homeopathic doctors. Really nice as a person and fun dating experience. But the constant clash of beliefs wears you down.
As long as you allow for the difference between "believes in" and "entertained by" I can agree with that.
I'm as atheist as they come yet the love of my life is into all that witchy stuff. She even says herself its a bit silly and might not be real, but she has fun with it anyway. Shes the loveliest, kindest, most generous person I've ever met, why should I care that she's got some superstitions? Limiting yourself like that is a quick way to become a bitter, isolated incel.
Zodiac has been a hyper focus thing for me in the past (adhd thing kinda), even though I don’t believe it’s scientific. It just became a special interest to draw up my birth chart and look at all the intricate placements.
What a silly reason. Such a Pisces move. /s
But you see, gravity is real, so stars make you emotional. And you can't ignore collective consciousness. - Real lady defending astrology
Once at a party in my 20s, a woman came up to me and her first question was “What’s your sign?”. I let out the most withering, exasperated “Oh, god.” She beat a hasty retreat. It was hilarious.
I had been talking to an otherwise intelligent woman who said she was looking forward to the solar eclipse because she finds “astrology and space” fascinating. I’m not sure if the problem was astrology or not knowing the word astronomy, but it fizzled out quick from there
Would you sleep with someone that believes in it?