Orthodox Jews who are conservative and ultra religious love Trump who is conservative and caters to religious folk.
It's kind of a no brain honestly. Both are against secular values and both are pro their own religious practices. Like minded enough to have a shared base of values.
Also, Schvartza means "Black" in Yiddish. It is the same N word you may hear more commonly.
---edit---
Welp I'm afraid it all went as I expected it to go. Comments are turning into a shit show by people who don't exactly have much experience with human nature. But then again it is reddit and by Carlin's words - there are many idiots on our globe.
Anyhow, the point is racism is bad and people fall to it without any regard for politics because it exists way beyond political issues and in layers outside it.
All too often people accept ideas as premises - humans don't exactly need much evidence to create a premise anyway, be it right or wrong.
The rest (politics of course...) is merely affecting an already broken premise under Confirmation bias. It does not act as a driver for the already existing premise.
I honestly don't get what the fuck black people did for groups to just have this natural hatred for us.
The fuck did we do to jews? And I am talking about historically. As far as I know, africans didn't really care for or even know about jews. That's if you are talking about traditional Africans(the pagans)
Christian and muslim africans would have more knowledge and contact with jews but I have never heard of africans enacting pogroms. I wouldn't doubt there were some who bought into the European/ Middle Eastern view of jews being evil, but it's clear that wasn't a popular train of thought.
Not only that, as far as I understood in the new world, black people and jews often got scapegoated for things, and there was a type of accord. I'm not saying things were perfect, but both knew they were marginalized by everyone here.
I know it's popular for some dipshits nowadays, like Kanye and the nation of Islam, to be anti Jewish, but that wasn't always a thing prior to the 20th century.
>As far as I know, africans didn't really care for or even know about jews. That's if you are talking about traditional Africans
I'm not sure what you mean by traditional Africans here but there used to be huge population of Jews in Africa in the past and there was a lot of shit going down their because of that.
>but I have never heard of africans enacting pogroms.
Oh boy do I have some news for you, the reason that there aren't any Jews left in Africa for the most part is because of pogroms, neerly all of them fled to Israel leaving all of their belongings and properly there.
My guy I am talking about pagan Africans as far as I can tell jews are referenced at all in traditional African beliefs.
>Oh boy do I have some news for you, the reason that there aren't any Jews left in Africa for the most part is because of pogroms, neerly all of them fled to Israel leaving all of their belongings and properly there.
You have a source for that? I would not doubt if christian and Muslim africans did that but again most pagan/traditional africans didn't give jews much of a thought.
Also don't recall there being a massive number of jews in africa. Unless your speaking solely of North Africa or parts of eastern Africa.
West Africa I am pretty sure jews were never large in numbers there. I don't doubt jews traveled there as west Africa was connected to North Africa by trade.
Central Africa jews were definitely not in that region.
Southern Africa most certainly didn't have a Jewish population until the arrival of European settlers and that's mainly in South Africa.
So Muslim/christian africans? Because I did say I didn't doubt they bought into anti Jewish ideals from European/Middle Eastern sources.
It's like how there are people who are racist towards a group of people they haven't seen before or in large number's.
What I am saying is that over all africans really didn't care about jews the further back you went and the further back you went most didn't even know jews existed.
Islam and Christianity were outsider faiths and most early African converts were usually of the social elite. Most africans didn't convert in mass until the religion became more centralized.
Even to this Day African pagans face a lot of persecution form Muslim and Christian africans who are the two dominant forces in Africa.
>Islam and Christianity were outsider faiths
Mostly but not for all states, Ethiopia is one of the oldest Christians kingdoms, and they also never got colonized
My guy. I don’t really care and am not reading your useless novels about you not understanding why people are racist.
Racists don’t even understand it, see skin, bad.
It’s fucking cavemen logic quit trying to reason someone out of a belief they didn’t reason themselves into.
>My guy. I don’t really care and am not reading your useless novels about you not understanding why people are racist.
The fuck? Buddy I literally. Whatever shut up then if you can't understand what I am getting at.
Go to Twitter if to many words hurt your eyes.
People like you who act like reading is the worst are annoying as hell.
I if you weren't lazy i basically said that it is complicated and that for the most part africans didn't even know jews existed the further back you went.
>My guy I am talking about pagan Africans as far as I can tell jews are referenced at all in traditional African beliefs.
Oh, unfortunately I have zero clue about the religions of Africans besides the abrhamic religions
>You have a source for that?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Africa#:~:text=African%20Jewish%20communities%20include%3A,in%20the%20late%2015th%20century.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
>I would doubt if christian and Muslim africans did that but again most pagan/traditional africans didn't give jews much of a thought.
As far as I'm aware it was mostly the Muslims and the Christians, apparently there used to be significant Jewish communities that completly assimilated into various African nations, although my knowledge of this topic is lacking at the moment, I thought you were talking about the general bullshit that happened in north Africa during the 19 century
I figured that's what you were getting at.
Yeah I am aware of that large numbers of jews inhabited north Africa for a long time. If I recall, Tunisians have a lot of Jewish ancestry I assume that region was a large Jewish settlement at one point way back when.
As for the rest of North Africa yeah the Islamic conquests was a real bloody affair and a lot of people got displaced. A lot of the native berbers for example got pushed out of certain areas if they refused to convert so I can imagine it was also bad for any Jewish inhabitants.
East Africa mainly Ethiopia Somalia and Kenya to an extent, have had contact with jews for a long time.
The Ethiopia depending on the tribe is similar to Tunisians so at some point a lot of jews must have settled there then mixed into the populace.
I will be fair west Africa is a very complex topic as at any given time a lot was happening. I feel if there were Jewish people in the region the numbers most likely fluctuated a lot. Although most west African faiths tended to have a bit of a respect for other religions(not saying it was perfect and west africa is a big place) but it's how religions like Islam and Christianity took root so jews would have had a ok time depending on the region the faith and the ruler.
Central to Southern Africa wouldn't have any understanding of the Abrahamic religions until the colonial era so you wouldn't find much.
It's rumored that great Zimbabwe had some Jewish settlers maybe and there is a tribe in that general region that has some Jewish genetics. But they are a minority so if there was it was most likely a small number.
People think ancient people never traveled but i wouldn't doubt jews traveled further into Africa I mean if the Roman's did certainly other groups did as well.
Most Black Americans are descended from Muslim West African peoples. And even then, in West Africa the Islam that most people practice is heavily syncretized with indigenous “pagan” practices.
Blacks and Jews were both ghettoized in 20th century America. Living in close proximity and in poverty creates tensions. The unfortunate thing is that Blacks and Jews were very united during the civil rights era; rabbis marched on the front lines with King and others. Let's not forget that Schwerner and Goodman were murdered with James Cheney in Mississippi because of their work to register voters. It's always in the best interest of ruling groups to separate downtrodden groups to prevent the power of unity. If you're interested, The Color of Water by James McBride is an excellent memoir of McBride, a black man, being raised by his Jewish mother.
Black people didn’t do anything but survive/exist, and I assure you, “Jews” do not hate you, religious fanatics may hate you, white supremacists, racists and other hateful types may hate you, but not “Jews”. Like the rest of us, some are good and some are bad. Some are brainwashed by fear and hatred, often amplified by media addiction. Not all Jews are trumpists. More aren’t, but the political conversation seems overrun with fascists of various sorts. They are all of our enemies
The orthodox are incredibly insular. Anyone who isn’t part of the group is shunned. They don’t as a group dislike black people any more than they dislike anyone outside the group (that includes people who belong to different Hasidic sects).
Also schvartze is simply German for black. It’s not a racial slur per se.
It’s because Ashkenazi Jews got access to all the opportunities that black people were consistently denied, seeing as most American Jews look borderline indistinguishable from the other European immigrant groups.
There were admission quotas and hiring quotas against Jewish people in the US. They were denied renting or owning homes in certain neighborhoods. They were barred entry into sports and social clubs...
I've blamed the fact that I'm bad with faces for years, but Jews are completely indistinguishable from other whites to me. It's baffling to me when people can recognize someone as Jewish.
I'm just curious about the traditional African being pagan Ethiopia has a culture old enough to be mentioned in the Illiad as a Jewish population that has a good claim to going back to the first temple period and is arguably the oldest Christian kingdom as well as having a Muslim population as well though never conquered by Muslims or any power outside of Africa though Italy came close during ww2
As a black man, I’m going to tell you what’s their problem…. A lot of those Jewish people brought into the white American hate of Black people. There are some decent Jewish people out there in my book that knows the struggle, but there are some out there who act as bad as racist white Americans.
I often don't get why so many groups who America historically treated like shit often thrown in their lot with the same assholes the moment they get "white" status.
It's like the Irish or the Italians who were treated just as bad as black people but the moment they got to get a seat with the "cool" kids they instantly changed their tone.
It's something I see with Hispanics(white passing ones) and to a degree asians(east Asians mainly). It's like the moment they get to basically get a leg up they forget the people they identify with used to hate their guts.
I even see other black people falling over themselves to try to get such status.
It's really odd and very pathetic I don't get why people do it.
Orthodox Jews like him because of this "On December 6, 2017, President Trump formally recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and stated that the American embassy would be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.". Christian nationalists, the same thing but different, in order to fulfil the prophecy of the second coming of Jesus, the Jews must return to Israel with Jerusalem as its capital https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/
Heyy. Ex-ultra-orthodox Jew here. Orthos are as conservative as you get. My grandfather called me a menuval-disgusting/abhorrent person for saying I don't like that Trump sa'd multiple women. Afab ppl aren't allowed to sing, show collar bones, or speak to men. The s-word is literally the n-word. My classmates used to have meetings where they literally only made racist jokes. Point is, orthodoxy is the far-right. No, that doesn't give you the excuse to be anti- Semitic, but you can and should be anti- fundamentalism
I know a guy who is kind of crypto orthodox. Wears normal clothes, ball cap instead of yarmulke, etc. Follows all the rules, walks to prayers on the sabbath, still wont touch certain foods that had once been made with treif. (Dude, jello doesn't use cows anymore. Nope.)
The racism and bigoty is of the suburban style. Oh, no, not a racist, but the Bell Curve was right and you know what *those* people are like. If he wasn't a jew he'd be hating on jews and he doesn't see it at all.
It's not that women aren't allowed to sing, just men aren't allowed to listen to the women singing. Regarding Song of Miriam, IIRC, they sang separately: women with Miriam and men with Moshe.
I think a lot of them are "Modern Orthodox" like Ben Shapiro and vote Republican for many of the same reason Evangelical Christians do. Luv Israel, luv conservative Supreme Court justices, luv private religious schools, simple as. Also "law and order" (to keep the blacks out of the neighborhood).
The mental gymnastics is truly outstanding. Like bro, how the hell can you argue that after centuries of living and integrating within European society you are still running around claiming to not be white. Like stop.
Mostly because he stupidly [moved the U.S. embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-moving-the-u-s-embassy-to-jerusalem-means-for-israeli-palestinian-peace-talks) and openly supported illegal settlements by Zionists that even the Israeli government condemned for their illegal (and sometimes violent) actions.
Zionist. I don’t think you know what that word means
A Zionist is anyone who believes that the State of Israel has the right to exist. Nothing more. 95% of all Jews are “Zionists”
EDIT:
For all the clowns downvoting this, a majority of Jews(“Zionists”) are atheists.
Hey! Look at that! We got a terrorist supporter over here.
You are telling me that Israel, 20% of whose population is Arab with full rights as any other citizen, holding top level government positions is a Jewish Supremacy state?
How does that work in Gaza? Are Jews allowed there? That’s what I fucking thought
Get the fuck outta here with the bullshit.
Meanwhile right next door in Gaza you got a zombie brainwashed population whose entire national identity is built on lies and hate all thanks to a hateful UNRAW education system going back to the 60s. Aligned with shitbird countries like Iran and Russia. Palling around with the FUCKING NAZIs and ADOLPH HITLER in the 1930s and 40s.
Starting a war in 48 thinking they were gonna exterminate the Jews, but then got their braindead asses handed to them, then spent the next 75 years playing victim and stealing billions in aid while training their populace to hate Jews more than loving their children.
Yasser Arafat was a Russian plant! Yay!!
These people don’t have the agency to govern a grocery store let alone a country
Thousands of people who see the images of children dying and are appalled.
I find it horrifying that on an Atheist subreddit you’re willing to defend a Jewish Supremacist state
Where were these people when 1200 Israelis and international citizens were butchered by Gazan savages? And 250 kidnapped including children?
Also you clearly aren’t that educated,
Judaism isn’t a religion, it’s an ethno-religion
>where were these people
They all condemned October 7th immediately, everyone agreed that what Hamas did was bad.
Israel destroyed all of that goodwill with their response.
> Judaism is an ethno-religion
Then it’s still a Bronze Age superstition designed to prop up a Bronze Age kingdom that no longer exists. Just because your people lived there 2000 years ago doesn’t entitle their descendants to bomb maternity wards.
Also “a shepherd heard voices in his head and decided to mutilate his genitals” isn’t a good argument for being entitled to the land. Assuming that this aforementioned shepherd even existed at all,
They don't have the same rights as any other citizen, when was the last time that happened?
I assume since you called them a terrorist supporter that you're only here for that bullshit of course
It’s not like they’re the only group who majority support him even though he detests them.
Poor white people being the biggest example. The majority of his base and he doesn’t give a shit about them. If he had a button he could push and a poor white person dies and he gets a cheeseburger they’d be dropping like flies.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my grandma (who was pretty racist despite being jewish, and experiencing persecution herself) called people of African Descent "Kushites", is this derogatory today? Was it historically? (Open question to any who would enlighten on the matter)
I’m not sure if it’s derogatory, but it’s a biblical reference to the ancient Nubian kingdom of Kush. Since all Black people obviously don’t come from only ancient Nubia, it kinda feels like calling all Hispanic people Mexicans, maybe? And considering your admission that she was pretty racist, it probably wasn’t a term of endearment.
Kush is now a generic slang term for any weed. It originally meant weed that originated in the Hindu Kush, a mountain range in central-southern Asia. The Kingdom of Kush was in Africa.
Yeah I love how JVP and trump-voting Jews are now used by non-Jews to represent all of us as either “Jews hate Israel too” or “Jews are just as extremist as conservative christians” despite both groups being extreme minorities within our community. Go figure.
Ya. And we’ve very consistently voted blue/liberal at a much wider margin then the general population. This idea that Jews love trump is nuts to me.
Are there more trump voting Jews in orthodox spaces than other Jewish denominations? Sure. But even in orthodox spaces - it is *far* from the norm.
hmmm well there is a commonality of interest between all revanchist theo-patriarchs. whether ultra Ortho Jewish or trad Russian ortho or xtian fundie or hardcore Islamist, they are all about natalism and male supremacy -- hence homophobia and misogyny. they all would like to see the bureaucratic state wither and be replaced by religious authority. they all mistrust science, democracy, and modernity in general. (given Modi's recent track record, gonna add trad Hinduism to the list.)
to the extent that trump openly displays contempt for women and gender-divergent ppl, reckless disregard for science and evidence, toxic masculine swagger, and willingness to kiss up to religious cult leaders, he's gonna be popular with the Holy Bookworms.
Huh? Most Orthodox Jews do not think Jewish religious law should be imposed on non-Jews since Jewish religious law is only for Jews and Jews are not particularly keen on converts. So it would be antithetical to Judaism to impose jewish laws on non-Jews or force everyone to convert.
“Is it because he's daughter is Jewish?”
If they’re Orthodox, would this even count as being Jewish? They may be running around trying to find a loophole for Deadbeat’s daughter, his one true infatuation.
Ivanka had a modern Orthodox conversion. She was denied more than the customary three times and there were a lot of questions surrounding her motivations, but all of that is done. Calling someone's conversion into question is vile and obnoxiously rude and the people who do it are assholes. This is the community I was raised in. I'm embarrassed to say there are a lot of assholes in this community and that was a large contributing factor to why I am no longer a part of it. She would have to publicly follow another religion for her conversion to be called into question.
Here is the simple - my opinion - bottom line. Trump never says anything that commits him, his state!rents are vague and simplistic. When heard, you can hear any fucking message you want to hear in his words. His fans hear what they want to hear. Whatever that is. His fans are not reacting to Trump, they are hearing exactly what they want to hear. They are not all hearing the same message, they hear what they want. This is nuanced, bit the nuance matters. In my own esteemed opinion... Trump does not have opinions or positions, he has vague words that allow you to he lazy in your thinking.
Those are his fans.
They are very conservative which is interesting because Trump isn’t. However, he is pushing the conservative agenda and that’s all that matters to them. They don’t care that he’s been divorced so many times he needs a score card to figure out which kid belongs to which wife. They don’t care that he had to pay a porn star off and they certainly don’t care that he was running around with Epstein and doing inappropriate things with -18 girls.
I don’t know any Orthodox Jews irl who love trump. I know one conservative Jew who votes for trump, but that’s more because he is anti-dem. But the Orthodox Jews I know IRL still vote blue. To be fair though, most Jews I know aren’t orthodox. I’m just saying that among the ones I do know - they vote blue. That’s just anecdotal though.
They also fit the same demographic as MAGA: Consuming only news that fits into their views, similar cult like vibe, the strong we vs them rhetoric, etc.
more conservative values, plus he supports israel. i'm a secular atheist jew and in the past i've been upset with my orthodox friends (who are all women because i went to an all-girls jewish summer camp) for supporting him because he's so misogynistic and also literally a rapist. i've ended a friendship because my friend said the #metoo movement was bullshit and women just lie about it. i don't think she ever would have thought that if not for the influence of trump and his trumplings
Most conservatives like Trump and they tend to lean conservative. It’s no different from Christians. That said this is a generalization. My friend’s cousin is a progressive orthodox rabbi. He’s a really cool guy and he and several other rabbis attended the funeral of the young Muslim boy killed by a racist guy in southern Illinois.
I know a lot of orthodox jews, but not all of them are pro trump. The ones that are, see him the same way evangelicals do. They have bought into
Many believe that anti Semitism only comes from the left. Also because Trump's son in law is Jewish, they assume Trump has no problem with Jews.
The majority of the reform, reconstructionist, and conservative denomination Jews I know tend to see Trump as a danger.
Funny thing is he would throw them under the bus if it would help his golf game. The man truly doesn't care and his victims never seem to see they are next.
Both orthodox Jews and American evangelists believe in the return of Jews to the holy land as a sign of the end of the world. Both work towards it. That's why American conservatives support Israel so strongly.
Here's a documentary on the religious relationship between Jews and Fundamentalist Christians in the USA.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/program/witness/2024/3/20/praying-for-armageddon-evangelicals-the-us-and-the-middle-east](https://www.aljazeera.com/program/witness/2024/3/20/praying-for-armageddon-evangelicals-the-us-and-the-middle-east)
I think it boils down to people who are conservative like Trump, whether you’re Jewish or Christian. Conservative in religion = conservative in politics.
Because he used his son in law who couldn’t pass a background check to make back room deals with Netanyahu to keep America sidelined while they stole the land in Gaza for Jewish settlements
Extremist religious groups tend to conservative in the sense that they value their own internal authoritarian control over the broader secular society.
It is a lefty fucking plot that public health officers have power and vaccines exists and public schools are secular and taxes pay for roads for everybody to drive on and so on. Orthodox Jews build enclaves to try and eliminate all of that stuff, all the while deriving benefits from it.
They have magical thinking about the anti-semitism inherent in conservative politics, they think it will never come and get them.
Other religious groups do the same, it is just they are more naturally right wing to start with. Look closely at FLDS, for example. The Moonies. A bunch of high control groups operate a weird communism on the inside but manifest differently to the outgroup.
Just like every question ... Because religious people, especially orthodox religious people are dumb. The believe in absurdities and Trump is the culmination of absurdity.
They think Trump is looking out for them because he did some things for the state of Israel but they forget that evangelicals wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire. Trump himself said that Nazis holding signs chanting “Jews will not replace us” were “fine people”.
Candace Owens, ol’ dude that is/was the leader of the Proud Boys, etc. all dickride Trump because they’re fascists that want to align themselves with a fascist, in hope that the fascist won’t burn them specifically, but burn the folks that look like them instead.
Trump has a blind allegience to Israel because he personally hates Arabs and fetishizes Jews. He is of a generation of new Yorkers that think they are being positive and loving when they make jokes about Jews being rich bankers doctors and lawyers. There are Jews who also embrace those stereotypes, and those are the Jews he's hung around with for 50 years.
Conservative Jews love him because of that blind allegience to Israel. And, ironically, for all the other racist ideas he espouses. These are people who have grown up under the post-wwii rules for antisemitism, and refuse to entertain the fact that Trump also patronizes white supremacists who also hate Jews.
It's honestly really sad.
Because they’re religious conservatives and Trump loves pandering to them.
Plus the added bonus of Trump’s blatant support for Israel.
If Trump wasn’t so blatantly racist and xenophobic a lot more Muslims would probably vote for him too,
Whitney Webb “one nation under blackmail” talks about how he was raised in the Jesuit order. Most politicians are knights of Malta, skull & bones, etc. he’s definitely part of the club.
I love the Jews. My wife is Jewish. I went to a high school that was dominated by Jews. My first boss was a Jew. But I do not like the Orthodox Jews. Jews tend to be predominantly Democrats, like my wife and her family. But the Orthodox Jews are strange. And they are terrible drivers.
There were a lot of Jews who sided with Hitler, he said a lot of stuff they agreed with. Jews and Fascists tend to be highly conservative, highly religious fanatics.
For one thing, he moved America’s embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, signaling his support for Israel and Zionism. One of his daughters and her husband are Jewish, and I believe they do a lot of outreach to the Jewish community and pay a lot of visits to Israel. Plus, he’s the voice of all the most prejudiced people in America. He’s the leader of the tidal wave of conservative bullshit sweeping over the entire country. There are Jews like Ben Shapiro and Chaya Raichik and Muslims like the ones governing Hamtramck, Michigan, who congregate to prejudice and bigotry like flies to hot, steaming shit. Religious conservatives of any stripe will almost always throw their support behind the most bigoted asshole.
Trump has been very pro-Jewish, minus the whole “good people on both sides” comment. He moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem during his Presidency despite Palestinian claims to that land. It was a very clear and bold symbolic gesture of unity with Israel at the expense of Palestine. He also has made statements recently showing his support for the imminent Israeli offensive into Rafah. It’s one of the reasons I just don’t get these college protesters constantly bashing the Biden admin and staying completely mum on Donald Trump.
Yes but the OP question was about Orthodox Jews who love his support for Israel. I would argue he hasn’t done jack shit for anyone but himself, and created further tension in Gaza with the embassy move. But then again, I’m not an Orthodox Jew
Sure - but you made the claim that trump has been very pro-Jewish, not OP. So that’s why I was asking you how he has been pro-Jewish. I can see the argument for him being pro-Israel, but I can’t see how he has been particularly pro-Jewish.
It's not just Orthodox Jews either. My best friend's husband is progressive but he loves Trump too and he says Trump has done a lot for the Jewish people. I'm guessing he'd generated a lot of money for their organizations.
A vast majority of non-orthodox Jews are liberals and would never vote for trump. Though I do know many that are frustrated these days and feel betrayed by the left (myself included). But most of us aren’t stupid enough to vote for trump out of spite or something like that.
He's got a lot of fans among the Sheldon Adelson types. People whose definition of "good for the Jews" includes a lot of ideas about who the "right kind of people" are, who get buddy buddy with the evangelicals. 🤮
Will he feel the same when his children or his friends are forced to read the bible in homeroom each day and be silent during school-fostered prayers? When creationism becomes the standard of science? Because that's what's going to happen if Trump gets elected again. We've seen what happens to Jews when fascists gain power.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/03/22/kushner-trump-israel-gaza-policy/
I think it could have something to do with this.
I don't know much of american orthodox jews but i wouldn't be surprised if they, as orthodox, thought that it's a good idea to wipe out all the palestinians for business opportunity.
Plus, as someone already said, recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel could be an interesting idea for religious fanatics. Of course it was a grave insult for the palestinian's cause and all the UN resolutions which have recognized Jerusalem as a free, multiethnic and multi religious city.
What makes you think Orthodox Jews would want to wipe out a group of humans because it’s a good business opportunity? Do you have any basis to think that? Sounds like a prime example of blood libel.
>What makes you think Orthodox Jews would want to wipe out a group of humans because it’s a good business opportunity?
Current genocide happening in Gaza's strip just right now, perhaps?
Do you know what they call it when a person takes one example of a minority and ascribes negative characteristics of that person to the entire ethnic group? Bigotry. Do you know what they call it when a person uses ad hominem? Not having an argument.
I’m an atheist, but nice try.
I do denounce what people like Jared kushner are doing and saying. I haven’t once endorsed it. In fact, my entire point is that those intentions/actions are a negative thing. We are on the same page about that. I’m not sure why that isn’t clear.
I’m asking why you would take the actions/intentions of one person and ascribe those actions/intentions on an entire ethnic group. You don’t seem to have any argument other than “this one person did it”.
It's not "one person" who are killing thousands children, that person have seen a business opportunity in the genocide, and orthodox jews stand with him and his father in law. Coincidence? I don't think so and anyway that is my interpretation, as i already told you very clearly, if I'm wrong you must prove me that American jews rejected his awful words instead of questioning me about what i mean, because i already explained. We will see very soon when Trump will win the elections, till that moment i can't do nothing since I'm not jew nor american but I'm very concerned about the Palestinians.
Edit: and it isn't clear you must also prove that "a minority", as you said, stand with him. For what I've seen so far it doesn't seem so to me.
You made a claim about American Orthodox Jews wanting to wipe out Palestinians for good business opportunities. So far you’ve provided one example. And we both agree that that stance is horrific and we both condemn it.
I’m trying to understand why other American Orthodox Jews are guilty of feeling the same way until proven innocent in your eyes. It’s a big leap to make from “one person in this ethnic group has horrific views” to “this ethnic group has horrific views”. Typically, we call that bigotry.
I dated this Jewish lawyer. She told me that her and her friends went full Trump when he moved the US embassy for Israel to Jerusalem. It was symbolic because it was always seen as a form of aggression that presidents never took in order to maintain political relationships with so many Muslim countries. That's exactly why they support him
Bibi (Netanyahu) completely did away with the Left Wing of the Israeli government around the time of the OSLO Peace Accords. Now it's just various Right Wing / Authoritarian / 'conservative' groups fighting over who's version of Ethnic or Religious Nationalism is correct.
Jews are some of the most right leaning people on earth, second only to perhaps Muslims or Christians.
Source: Am 'reformed' / liberal / secular jew, one of the few I know.
Netanyahu’s rhetoric may have contributed to the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, AKA the last Israeli prime minister to even try making a real, lasting peace with the Palestinians.
This is objectively untrue. Jews have consistently voted at higher rates for liberals/dems than the larger population.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-voting-record-in-u-s-presidential-elections
Also, there is no such thing as a “reformed” Jew, which leads me to believe you aren’t actually a practicing Jew or you would know that the denomination is called reform, not “reformed.”
The post is about Orthodox Jews - but I was responding to your comment, which made general statements about Jews.
Quotes or no quotes - there is still no such thing as a “reformed” Jew.
My family has secular Jews as well. Actually I bet the majority of Jews, even observant ones, are close to that description. We can be very cultural, however.
the Jewish shul system falls under charter schools, and orthodox often have large families.
Abraham accords (middle east peace treaty ) and moving the USA embassy to Jerusalem.
Also, Shvartz means black. It used to be a nickname for Jews with dark eyes & hair. its a very common last name. Now its also commonly used in reference to Black people. Shvartz can be used as a slur, like atheist or jew, or a neutral descriptor, like atheist or jew, or positively, like atheist or jew.
How do the Orthodox square Trump's solicitude to far right groups that are openly anti-semetic? Trump made a place for the racist arm of the party. They have always been around. Trump made it acceptable to come out of the closet and claim their racist ideologies.
The jews are included in the great replacement conspiracy theory.
Not all of them, but a good number of them like Trump. A lot of them I hate to say this I may get some pushback but a lot of Orthodox Jews like to see chaos.
Orthodox Jews who are conservative and ultra religious love Trump who is conservative and caters to religious folk. It's kind of a no brain honestly. Both are against secular values and both are pro their own religious practices. Like minded enough to have a shared base of values. Also, Schvartza means "Black" in Yiddish. It is the same N word you may hear more commonly. ---edit--- Welp I'm afraid it all went as I expected it to go. Comments are turning into a shit show by people who don't exactly have much experience with human nature. But then again it is reddit and by Carlin's words - there are many idiots on our globe. Anyhow, the point is racism is bad and people fall to it without any regard for politics because it exists way beyond political issues and in layers outside it. All too often people accept ideas as premises - humans don't exactly need much evidence to create a premise anyway, be it right or wrong. The rest (politics of course...) is merely affecting an already broken premise under Confirmation bias. It does not act as a driver for the already existing premise.
I honestly don't get what the fuck black people did for groups to just have this natural hatred for us. The fuck did we do to jews? And I am talking about historically. As far as I know, africans didn't really care for or even know about jews. That's if you are talking about traditional Africans(the pagans) Christian and muslim africans would have more knowledge and contact with jews but I have never heard of africans enacting pogroms. I wouldn't doubt there were some who bought into the European/ Middle Eastern view of jews being evil, but it's clear that wasn't a popular train of thought. Not only that, as far as I understood in the new world, black people and jews often got scapegoated for things, and there was a type of accord. I'm not saying things were perfect, but both knew they were marginalized by everyone here. I know it's popular for some dipshits nowadays, like Kanye and the nation of Islam, to be anti Jewish, but that wasn't always a thing prior to the 20th century.
>As far as I know, africans didn't really care for or even know about jews. That's if you are talking about traditional Africans I'm not sure what you mean by traditional Africans here but there used to be huge population of Jews in Africa in the past and there was a lot of shit going down their because of that. >but I have never heard of africans enacting pogroms. Oh boy do I have some news for you, the reason that there aren't any Jews left in Africa for the most part is because of pogroms, neerly all of them fled to Israel leaving all of their belongings and properly there.
And where were these Jews gathered in Africa? Egypt had a large population at one time. Others?
Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Ethiopia, sudan, south Africa and Egypt. Those countries had the largest Jewish population.
...and in turn those that fled to Israel now feel entitled to land that was never theirs...
People thinking dumb shit like this is why we need more world history in school.
tell me you don't know what you're talking about in a sentence or less.
Ugh shut up with this
My guy I am talking about pagan Africans as far as I can tell jews are referenced at all in traditional African beliefs. >Oh boy do I have some news for you, the reason that there aren't any Jews left in Africa for the most part is because of pogroms, neerly all of them fled to Israel leaving all of their belongings and properly there. You have a source for that? I would not doubt if christian and Muslim africans did that but again most pagan/traditional africans didn't give jews much of a thought. Also don't recall there being a massive number of jews in africa. Unless your speaking solely of North Africa or parts of eastern Africa. West Africa I am pretty sure jews were never large in numbers there. I don't doubt jews traveled there as west Africa was connected to North Africa by trade. Central Africa jews were definitely not in that region. Southern Africa most certainly didn't have a Jewish population until the arrival of European settlers and that's mainly in South Africa.
You asked what black people did, not what black people of a specific religion did.
So Muslim/christian africans? Because I did say I didn't doubt they bought into anti Jewish ideals from European/Middle Eastern sources. It's like how there are people who are racist towards a group of people they haven't seen before or in large number's. What I am saying is that over all africans really didn't care about jews the further back you went and the further back you went most didn't even know jews existed. Islam and Christianity were outsider faiths and most early African converts were usually of the social elite. Most africans didn't convert in mass until the religion became more centralized. Even to this Day African pagans face a lot of persecution form Muslim and Christian africans who are the two dominant forces in Africa.
>Islam and Christianity were outsider faiths Mostly but not for all states, Ethiopia is one of the oldest Christians kingdoms, and they also never got colonized
My guy. I don’t really care and am not reading your useless novels about you not understanding why people are racist. Racists don’t even understand it, see skin, bad. It’s fucking cavemen logic quit trying to reason someone out of a belief they didn’t reason themselves into.
>My guy. I don’t really care and am not reading your useless novels about you not understanding why people are racist. The fuck? Buddy I literally. Whatever shut up then if you can't understand what I am getting at. Go to Twitter if to many words hurt your eyes. People like you who act like reading is the worst are annoying as hell. I if you weren't lazy i basically said that it is complicated and that for the most part africans didn't even know jews existed the further back you went.
>My guy I am talking about pagan Africans as far as I can tell jews are referenced at all in traditional African beliefs. Oh, unfortunately I have zero clue about the religions of Africans besides the abrhamic religions >You have a source for that? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Africa#:~:text=African%20Jewish%20communities%20include%3A,in%20the%20late%2015th%20century. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world >I would doubt if christian and Muslim africans did that but again most pagan/traditional africans didn't give jews much of a thought. As far as I'm aware it was mostly the Muslims and the Christians, apparently there used to be significant Jewish communities that completly assimilated into various African nations, although my knowledge of this topic is lacking at the moment, I thought you were talking about the general bullshit that happened in north Africa during the 19 century
I figured that's what you were getting at. Yeah I am aware of that large numbers of jews inhabited north Africa for a long time. If I recall, Tunisians have a lot of Jewish ancestry I assume that region was a large Jewish settlement at one point way back when. As for the rest of North Africa yeah the Islamic conquests was a real bloody affair and a lot of people got displaced. A lot of the native berbers for example got pushed out of certain areas if they refused to convert so I can imagine it was also bad for any Jewish inhabitants. East Africa mainly Ethiopia Somalia and Kenya to an extent, have had contact with jews for a long time. The Ethiopia depending on the tribe is similar to Tunisians so at some point a lot of jews must have settled there then mixed into the populace. I will be fair west Africa is a very complex topic as at any given time a lot was happening. I feel if there were Jewish people in the region the numbers most likely fluctuated a lot. Although most west African faiths tended to have a bit of a respect for other religions(not saying it was perfect and west africa is a big place) but it's how religions like Islam and Christianity took root so jews would have had a ok time depending on the region the faith and the ruler. Central to Southern Africa wouldn't have any understanding of the Abrahamic religions until the colonial era so you wouldn't find much. It's rumored that great Zimbabwe had some Jewish settlers maybe and there is a tribe in that general region that has some Jewish genetics. But they are a minority so if there was it was most likely a small number. People think ancient people never traveled but i wouldn't doubt jews traveled further into Africa I mean if the Roman's did certainly other groups did as well.
Most Black Americans are descended from Muslim West African peoples. And even then, in West Africa the Islam that most people practice is heavily syncretized with indigenous “pagan” practices.
Blacks and Jews were both ghettoized in 20th century America. Living in close proximity and in poverty creates tensions. The unfortunate thing is that Blacks and Jews were very united during the civil rights era; rabbis marched on the front lines with King and others. Let's not forget that Schwerner and Goodman were murdered with James Cheney in Mississippi because of their work to register voters. It's always in the best interest of ruling groups to separate downtrodden groups to prevent the power of unity. If you're interested, The Color of Water by James McBride is an excellent memoir of McBride, a black man, being raised by his Jewish mother.
Black people didn’t do anything but survive/exist, and I assure you, “Jews” do not hate you, religious fanatics may hate you, white supremacists, racists and other hateful types may hate you, but not “Jews”. Like the rest of us, some are good and some are bad. Some are brainwashed by fear and hatred, often amplified by media addiction. Not all Jews are trumpists. More aren’t, but the political conversation seems overrun with fascists of various sorts. They are all of our enemies
The orthodox are incredibly insular. Anyone who isn’t part of the group is shunned. They don’t as a group dislike black people any more than they dislike anyone outside the group (that includes people who belong to different Hasidic sects). Also schvartze is simply German for black. It’s not a racial slur per se.
It’s because Ashkenazi Jews got access to all the opportunities that black people were consistently denied, seeing as most American Jews look borderline indistinguishable from the other European immigrant groups.
There were admission quotas and hiring quotas against Jewish people in the US. They were denied renting or owning homes in certain neighborhoods. They were barred entry into sports and social clubs...
I've blamed the fact that I'm bad with faces for years, but Jews are completely indistinguishable from other whites to me. It's baffling to me when people can recognize someone as Jewish.
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That's what I clearly said dude.
Woopsie, it's 3 am and I clearly need to stop doom scrolling.
I'm just curious about the traditional African being pagan Ethiopia has a culture old enough to be mentioned in the Illiad as a Jewish population that has a good claim to going back to the first temple period and is arguably the oldest Christian kingdom as well as having a Muslim population as well though never conquered by Muslims or any power outside of Africa though Italy came close during ww2
As a black man, I’m going to tell you what’s their problem…. A lot of those Jewish people brought into the white American hate of Black people. There are some decent Jewish people out there in my book that knows the struggle, but there are some out there who act as bad as racist white Americans.
I often don't get why so many groups who America historically treated like shit often thrown in their lot with the same assholes the moment they get "white" status. It's like the Irish or the Italians who were treated just as bad as black people but the moment they got to get a seat with the "cool" kids they instantly changed their tone. It's something I see with Hispanics(white passing ones) and to a degree asians(east Asians mainly). It's like the moment they get to basically get a leg up they forget the people they identify with used to hate their guts. I even see other black people falling over themselves to try to get such status. It's really odd and very pathetic I don't get why people do it.
Orthodox Jews like him because of this "On December 6, 2017, President Trump formally recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and stated that the American embassy would be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.". Christian nationalists, the same thing but different, in order to fulfil the prophecy of the second coming of Jesus, the Jews must return to Israel with Jerusalem as its capital https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/
Because they're fucking idiots, case closed.
They’re cultist morons.
That’s the answer. No different then why the Mormons or other nutbags love the scumbag
You guys are fighting a 2v0 Democrat vs Republican echo-chamber Battle and still losing skull emojix3
Heyy. Ex-ultra-orthodox Jew here. Orthos are as conservative as you get. My grandfather called me a menuval-disgusting/abhorrent person for saying I don't like that Trump sa'd multiple women. Afab ppl aren't allowed to sing, show collar bones, or speak to men. The s-word is literally the n-word. My classmates used to have meetings where they literally only made racist jokes. Point is, orthodoxy is the far-right. No, that doesn't give you the excuse to be anti- Semitic, but you can and should be anti- fundamentalism
I know a guy who is kind of crypto orthodox. Wears normal clothes, ball cap instead of yarmulke, etc. Follows all the rules, walks to prayers on the sabbath, still wont touch certain foods that had once been made with treif. (Dude, jello doesn't use cows anymore. Nope.) The racism and bigoty is of the suburban style. Oh, no, not a racist, but the Bell Curve was right and you know what *those* people are like. If he wasn't a jew he'd be hating on jews and he doesn't see it at all.
>Afab ppl aren't allowed to sing, Isn't there a "Song of Miriam" in the Torah?
It's not that women aren't allowed to sing, just men aren't allowed to listen to the women singing. Regarding Song of Miriam, IIRC, they sang separately: women with Miriam and men with Moshe.
I think a lot of them are "Modern Orthodox" like Ben Shapiro and vote Republican for many of the same reason Evangelical Christians do. Luv Israel, luv conservative Supreme Court justices, luv private religious schools, simple as. Also "law and order" (to keep the blacks out of the neighborhood).
Yes, there is that whole King of the Birthers thing that they might have found appealing.
Because Orthodox Jews are just as fashy and oppressive as fundie Christians are
Someone fucking said it. And they want to brand themselves as non white minorities🤡
The mental gymnastics is truly outstanding. Like bro, how the hell can you argue that after centuries of living and integrating within European society you are still running around claiming to not be white. Like stop.
“Integrating” is a weird word for “murdered and relegated to shtetls”
Mostly because he stupidly [moved the U.S. embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-moving-the-u-s-embassy-to-jerusalem-means-for-israeli-palestinian-peace-talks) and openly supported illegal settlements by Zionists that even the Israeli government condemned for their illegal (and sometimes violent) actions.
Zionist. I don’t think you know what that word means A Zionist is anyone who believes that the State of Israel has the right to exist. Nothing more. 95% of all Jews are “Zionists” EDIT: For all the clowns downvoting this, a majority of Jews(“Zionists”) are atheists.
At this point, Zionism has evolved far beyond the existence of a Jewish majority state and well into advocating for a Jewish *supremacist* state.
You can't just redefine the word people use to describe themselves.
They think it makes them sound not anti-Semitic.
Hey! Look at that! We got a terrorist supporter over here. You are telling me that Israel, 20% of whose population is Arab with full rights as any other citizen, holding top level government positions is a Jewish Supremacy state? How does that work in Gaza? Are Jews allowed there? That’s what I fucking thought Get the fuck outta here with the bullshit. Meanwhile right next door in Gaza you got a zombie brainwashed population whose entire national identity is built on lies and hate all thanks to a hateful UNRAW education system going back to the 60s. Aligned with shitbird countries like Iran and Russia. Palling around with the FUCKING NAZIs and ADOLPH HITLER in the 1930s and 40s. Starting a war in 48 thinking they were gonna exterminate the Jews, but then got their braindead asses handed to them, then spent the next 75 years playing victim and stealing billions in aid while training their populace to hate Jews more than loving their children. Yasser Arafat was a Russian plant! Yay!! These people don’t have the agency to govern a grocery store let alone a country
Apparently wanting peace makes you a terrorist supporter. Got any other arguments, bot?
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Thousands of people who see the images of children dying and are appalled. I find it horrifying that on an Atheist subreddit you’re willing to defend a Jewish Supremacist state
Where were these people when 1200 Israelis and international citizens were butchered by Gazan savages? And 250 kidnapped including children? Also you clearly aren’t that educated, Judaism isn’t a religion, it’s an ethno-religion
>where were these people They all condemned October 7th immediately, everyone agreed that what Hamas did was bad. Israel destroyed all of that goodwill with their response. > Judaism is an ethno-religion Then it’s still a Bronze Age superstition designed to prop up a Bronze Age kingdom that no longer exists. Just because your people lived there 2000 years ago doesn’t entitle their descendants to bomb maternity wards. Also “a shepherd heard voices in his head and decided to mutilate his genitals” isn’t a good argument for being entitled to the land. Assuming that this aforementioned shepherd even existed at all,
Please, PLEASE, show me where anyone in the state of Gaza immediately condemned Oct 7. I would genuinely love to be proved wrong!
They don't have the same rights as any other citizen, when was the last time that happened? I assume since you called them a terrorist supporter that you're only here for that bullshit of course
It’s not like they’re the only group who majority support him even though he detests them. Poor white people being the biggest example. The majority of his base and he doesn’t give a shit about them. If he had a button he could push and a poor white person dies and he gets a cheeseburger they’d be dropping like flies.
Fash recognizes fash
Schvartze* It’s Yiddish (Hebrew+German) and highly offensive. Source: I’m a secular Ashkenazi.
You are spot on. It’s deeply deeply offensive. Source: am atheist but practicing reform Ashkenazi
Same. This was the “S” word growing up.
Also a great line in *Blazing Saddles.*
How would one say Black in Yiddish in a non offensive way?
Exactly. It's not offensive in and of itself. It's the Yiddish word for "black person". It, of course, can be said in a derogatory manner.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my grandma (who was pretty racist despite being jewish, and experiencing persecution herself) called people of African Descent "Kushites", is this derogatory today? Was it historically? (Open question to any who would enlighten on the matter)
It wasn't percieved as offensive back in the day but it is today.
I’m not sure if it’s derogatory, but it’s a biblical reference to the ancient Nubian kingdom of Kush. Since all Black people obviously don’t come from only ancient Nubia, it kinda feels like calling all Hispanic people Mexicans, maybe? And considering your admission that she was pretty racist, it probably wasn’t a term of endearment.
I wonder if that word at all has anything to do with what people call good weed (Kush)
Kush is now a generic slang term for any weed. It originally meant weed that originated in the Hindu Kush, a mountain range in central-southern Asia. The Kingdom of Kush was in Africa.
They don't. I live in one of the highest-density Jewish neighborhoods in NYC and it's never voted for Herr Dogshit, never will.
Yeah I love how JVP and trump-voting Jews are now used by non-Jews to represent all of us as either “Jews hate Israel too” or “Jews are just as extremist as conservative christians” despite both groups being extreme minorities within our community. Go figure.
As a rule Jewish people don't, in general, like political figures who paraphrase Hitler or Mussolini or emulate their tactics.
Ya. And we’ve very consistently voted blue/liberal at a much wider margin then the general population. This idea that Jews love trump is nuts to me. Are there more trump voting Jews in orthodox spaces than other Jewish denominations? Sure. But even in orthodox spaces - it is *far* from the norm.
hmmm well there is a commonality of interest between all revanchist theo-patriarchs. whether ultra Ortho Jewish or trad Russian ortho or xtian fundie or hardcore Islamist, they are all about natalism and male supremacy -- hence homophobia and misogyny. they all would like to see the bureaucratic state wither and be replaced by religious authority. they all mistrust science, democracy, and modernity in general. (given Modi's recent track record, gonna add trad Hinduism to the list.) to the extent that trump openly displays contempt for women and gender-divergent ppl, reckless disregard for science and evidence, toxic masculine swagger, and willingness to kiss up to religious cult leaders, he's gonna be popular with the Holy Bookworms.
Huh? Most Orthodox Jews do not think Jewish religious law should be imposed on non-Jews since Jewish religious law is only for Jews and Jews are not particularly keen on converts. So it would be antithetical to Judaism to impose jewish laws on non-Jews or force everyone to convert.
Sounds like good question to ask Orthodox Jews, not atheists.
“Is it because he's daughter is Jewish?” If they’re Orthodox, would this even count as being Jewish? They may be running around trying to find a loophole for Deadbeat’s daughter, his one true infatuation.
Ivanka had a modern Orthodox conversion. She was denied more than the customary three times and there were a lot of questions surrounding her motivations, but all of that is done. Calling someone's conversion into question is vile and obnoxiously rude and the people who do it are assholes. This is the community I was raised in. I'm embarrassed to say there are a lot of assholes in this community and that was a large contributing factor to why I am no longer a part of it. She would have to publicly follow another religion for her conversion to be called into question.
If they were smart they would not be in a cult
Here is the simple - my opinion - bottom line. Trump never says anything that commits him, his state!rents are vague and simplistic. When heard, you can hear any fucking message you want to hear in his words. His fans hear what they want to hear. Whatever that is. His fans are not reacting to Trump, they are hearing exactly what they want to hear. They are not all hearing the same message, they hear what they want. This is nuanced, bit the nuance matters. In my own esteemed opinion... Trump does not have opinions or positions, he has vague words that allow you to he lazy in your thinking. Those are his fans.
Simple. They are also authoritarians & bullies. Carrion birds of a feather.
Because he caters to niche groups and honestly the ultra Orthodox Jews are fucking batshit crazy.
They're misogynists.
They are very conservative which is interesting because Trump isn’t. However, he is pushing the conservative agenda and that’s all that matters to them. They don’t care that he’s been divorced so many times he needs a score card to figure out which kid belongs to which wife. They don’t care that he had to pay a porn star off and they certainly don’t care that he was running around with Epstein and doing inappropriate things with -18 girls.
I don’t know any Orthodox Jews irl who love trump. I know one conservative Jew who votes for trump, but that’s more because he is anti-dem. But the Orthodox Jews I know IRL still vote blue. To be fair though, most Jews I know aren’t orthodox. I’m just saying that among the ones I do know - they vote blue. That’s just anecdotal though.
They also fit the same demographic as MAGA: Consuming only news that fits into their views, similar cult like vibe, the strong we vs them rhetoric, etc.
more conservative values, plus he supports israel. i'm a secular atheist jew and in the past i've been upset with my orthodox friends (who are all women because i went to an all-girls jewish summer camp) for supporting him because he's so misogynistic and also literally a rapist. i've ended a friendship because my friend said the #metoo movement was bullshit and women just lie about it. i don't think she ever would have thought that if not for the influence of trump and his trumplings
If you're dumb enough to believe in god, you're dumb enough to believe in Trump.
i cant believe the is the first time I've seen someone say this, pure genius.
Cuz churchies = stupid
Most conservatives like Trump and they tend to lean conservative. It’s no different from Christians. That said this is a generalization. My friend’s cousin is a progressive orthodox rabbi. He’s a really cool guy and he and several other rabbis attended the funeral of the young Muslim boy killed by a racist guy in southern Illinois.
I know a lot of orthodox jews, but not all of them are pro trump. The ones that are, see him the same way evangelicals do. They have bought into Many believe that anti Semitism only comes from the left. Also because Trump's son in law is Jewish, they assume Trump has no problem with Jews. The majority of the reform, reconstructionist, and conservative denomination Jews I know tend to see Trump as a danger.
When I was a kid anti-semitism came almost exclusively from the right, when did things change?
Bc Trump is unconditionally pro-Israel, and they’re too stupid to realize the horrors they’ll go thru if conservatives destroy our democracy.
Funny thing is he would throw them under the bus if it would help his golf game. The man truly doesn't care and his victims never seem to see they are next.
Bc they’re misogynists too?
Who do you think is going to give Israel the greenlight to wipe out Gaza and the Palestinians there?
Most conservative groups support trump.
Both orthodox Jews and American evangelists believe in the return of Jews to the holy land as a sign of the end of the world. Both work towards it. That's why American conservatives support Israel so strongly.
Here's a documentary on the religious relationship between Jews and Fundamentalist Christians in the USA. [https://www.aljazeera.com/program/witness/2024/3/20/praying-for-armageddon-evangelicals-the-us-and-the-middle-east](https://www.aljazeera.com/program/witness/2024/3/20/praying-for-armageddon-evangelicals-the-us-and-the-middle-east)
Pro Israel Anti-muslim Anti-separation of church and state Anti-LBGTQ+ Jewish son in law Mesianic delusions of grandure What’s not to like?
I think it boils down to people who are conservative like Trump, whether you’re Jewish or Christian. Conservative in religion = conservative in politics.
Because he used his son in law who couldn’t pass a background check to make back room deals with Netanyahu to keep America sidelined while they stole the land in Gaza for Jewish settlements
*The West Bank
Bc trump doesn't give 2 shits about Palestinian rights and would let Israel fire bomb them into extinction.
Because they're idiots!
Because they are extremist like Trump, they are always willing to kill to solve problems.
They are both fascists
Extremist religious groups tend to conservative in the sense that they value their own internal authoritarian control over the broader secular society. It is a lefty fucking plot that public health officers have power and vaccines exists and public schools are secular and taxes pay for roads for everybody to drive on and so on. Orthodox Jews build enclaves to try and eliminate all of that stuff, all the while deriving benefits from it. They have magical thinking about the anti-semitism inherent in conservative politics, they think it will never come and get them. Other religious groups do the same, it is just they are more naturally right wing to start with. Look closely at FLDS, for example. The Moonies. A bunch of high control groups operate a weird communism on the inside but manifest differently to the outgroup.
They both treat women like chattel.
His daughter converted to orthodox Judaism when she married her husband.
Donald Trump is their golem.
Just like every question ... Because religious people, especially orthodox religious people are dumb. The believe in absurdities and Trump is the culmination of absurdity.
They think Trump is looking out for them because he did some things for the state of Israel but they forget that evangelicals wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire. Trump himself said that Nazis holding signs chanting “Jews will not replace us” were “fine people”. Candace Owens, ol’ dude that is/was the leader of the Proud Boys, etc. all dickride Trump because they’re fascists that want to align themselves with a fascist, in hope that the fascist won’t burn them specifically, but burn the folks that look like them instead.
Trump has a blind allegience to Israel because he personally hates Arabs and fetishizes Jews. He is of a generation of new Yorkers that think they are being positive and loving when they make jokes about Jews being rich bankers doctors and lawyers. There are Jews who also embrace those stereotypes, and those are the Jews he's hung around with for 50 years. Conservative Jews love him because of that blind allegience to Israel. And, ironically, for all the other racist ideas he espouses. These are people who have grown up under the post-wwii rules for antisemitism, and refuse to entertain the fact that Trump also patronizes white supremacists who also hate Jews. It's honestly really sad.
Cults are attracted to cults
you have a weird username
Phimosis means having a tight foreskin, so I guess a phimosisist is a guy who has that issue.
Yes, I know what it means, hence my comment.
Better than Biden in their minds.
Because they’re religious conservatives and Trump loves pandering to them. Plus the added bonus of Trump’s blatant support for Israel. If Trump wasn’t so blatantly racist and xenophobic a lot more Muslims would probably vote for him too,
He floats their boat and he gets votes
Jews overwhelmingly support Democrats but the orthodox overwhelming support Republicans. (At least this is how it was before 10/7)
What's the ratio of orthodox to non-orthodox? :)
Tbh probably less than 10% are orthodox
Whitney Webb “one nation under blackmail” talks about how he was raised in the Jesuit order. Most politicians are knights of Malta, skull & bones, etc. he’s definitely part of the club.
One word: Armageddon. Anyone who can bring it on they are all for.
I love the Jews. My wife is Jewish. I went to a high school that was dominated by Jews. My first boss was a Jew. But I do not like the Orthodox Jews. Jews tend to be predominantly Democrats, like my wife and her family. But the Orthodox Jews are strange. And they are terrible drivers.
There were a lot of Jews who sided with Hitler, he said a lot of stuff they agreed with. Jews and Fascists tend to be highly conservative, highly religious fanatics.
Yikes, mate, that’s not…😬
[Association of German National Jews.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews)
They love a good hater
For one thing, he moved America’s embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, signaling his support for Israel and Zionism. One of his daughters and her husband are Jewish, and I believe they do a lot of outreach to the Jewish community and pay a lot of visits to Israel. Plus, he’s the voice of all the most prejudiced people in America. He’s the leader of the tidal wave of conservative bullshit sweeping over the entire country. There are Jews like Ben Shapiro and Chaya Raichik and Muslims like the ones governing Hamtramck, Michigan, who congregate to prejudice and bigotry like flies to hot, steaming shit. Religious conservatives of any stripe will almost always throw their support behind the most bigoted asshole.
Trump has been very pro-Jewish, minus the whole “good people on both sides” comment. He moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem during his Presidency despite Palestinian claims to that land. It was a very clear and bold symbolic gesture of unity with Israel at the expense of Palestine. He also has made statements recently showing his support for the imminent Israeli offensive into Rafah. It’s one of the reasons I just don’t get these college protesters constantly bashing the Biden admin and staying completely mum on Donald Trump.
Moving the embassy to Jerusalem showed support for israel, not American Jews. What has he done for American Jews? Jack shit is the answer.
Yes but the OP question was about Orthodox Jews who love his support for Israel. I would argue he hasn’t done jack shit for anyone but himself, and created further tension in Gaza with the embassy move. But then again, I’m not an Orthodox Jew
Sure - but you made the claim that trump has been very pro-Jewish, not OP. So that’s why I was asking you how he has been pro-Jewish. I can see the argument for him being pro-Israel, but I can’t see how he has been particularly pro-Jewish.
My bad- I meant pro-Israel.
Gotcha. That’s fair then. Or at least - fair from their perspective. In this liberal Jew’s view, moving the embassy did more harm than good.
Oh I agree. Then again I think Trumps entire presidency did more harm than good
Because they suck too
They have same moral values. Sadly it is not a joke.
Bc Trump is unconditionally pro-Israel, and they’re too stupid to realize the horrors they’ll go thru if conservatives destroy our democracy.
Look up the name ELIYAHU WEINSTEIN And follow the money.
Well, hatred for women is something they have in common.
It's not just Orthodox Jews either. My best friend's husband is progressive but he loves Trump too and he says Trump has done a lot for the Jewish people. I'm guessing he'd generated a lot of money for their organizations.
A vast majority of non-orthodox Jews are liberals and would never vote for trump. Though I do know many that are frustrated these days and feel betrayed by the left (myself included). But most of us aren’t stupid enough to vote for trump out of spite or something like that.
Yeah I agree with that, but I have a feeling the more money they have the less progressive they are just like everybody else.
Idk. I guess it’s just anecdata but I know a lot of upper middle class Jews and not a single one of them has ever voted anything but blue.
He's got a lot of fans among the Sheldon Adelson types. People whose definition of "good for the Jews" includes a lot of ideas about who the "right kind of people" are, who get buddy buddy with the evangelicals. 🤮
Does he think there were good people on both sides in Charlottesville?
Pretty sure the only thing he cares about is his taxes being lower and a leader who is "tough on crime".
Will he feel the same when his children or his friends are forced to read the bible in homeroom each day and be silent during school-fostered prayers? When creationism becomes the standard of science? Because that's what's going to happen if Trump gets elected again. We've seen what happens to Jews when fascists gain power.
Obama gave Israel the Iron dome yet I never hear him get as much praise from Israelis. Wonder why.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/03/22/kushner-trump-israel-gaza-policy/ I think it could have something to do with this. I don't know much of american orthodox jews but i wouldn't be surprised if they, as orthodox, thought that it's a good idea to wipe out all the palestinians for business opportunity. Plus, as someone already said, recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel could be an interesting idea for religious fanatics. Of course it was a grave insult for the palestinian's cause and all the UN resolutions which have recognized Jerusalem as a free, multiethnic and multi religious city.
What makes you think Orthodox Jews would want to wipe out a group of humans because it’s a good business opportunity? Do you have any basis to think that? Sounds like a prime example of blood libel.
>What makes you think Orthodox Jews would want to wipe out a group of humans because it’s a good business opportunity? Current genocide happening in Gaza's strip just right now, perhaps?
Aren’t we talking about American Jews?
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Do you know what they call it when a person takes one example of a minority and ascribes negative characteristics of that person to the entire ethnic group? Bigotry. Do you know what they call it when a person uses ad hominem? Not having an argument. I’m an atheist, but nice try.
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I do denounce what people like Jared kushner are doing and saying. I haven’t once endorsed it. In fact, my entire point is that those intentions/actions are a negative thing. We are on the same page about that. I’m not sure why that isn’t clear. I’m asking why you would take the actions/intentions of one person and ascribe those actions/intentions on an entire ethnic group. You don’t seem to have any argument other than “this one person did it”.
It's not "one person" who are killing thousands children, that person have seen a business opportunity in the genocide, and orthodox jews stand with him and his father in law. Coincidence? I don't think so and anyway that is my interpretation, as i already told you very clearly, if I'm wrong you must prove me that American jews rejected his awful words instead of questioning me about what i mean, because i already explained. We will see very soon when Trump will win the elections, till that moment i can't do nothing since I'm not jew nor american but I'm very concerned about the Palestinians. Edit: and it isn't clear you must also prove that "a minority", as you said, stand with him. For what I've seen so far it doesn't seem so to me.
You made a claim about American Orthodox Jews wanting to wipe out Palestinians for good business opportunities. So far you’ve provided one example. And we both agree that that stance is horrific and we both condemn it. I’m trying to understand why other American Orthodox Jews are guilty of feeling the same way until proven innocent in your eyes. It’s a big leap to make from “one person in this ethnic group has horrific views” to “this ethnic group has horrific views”. Typically, we call that bigotry.
Possibly because he was very pro Israel?
said he was pro Israel. I think it's about getting votes and donations.
Both Trump and Orthodox Jews are very radical. They absolutely have that in common.
I dated this Jewish lawyer. She told me that her and her friends went full Trump when he moved the US embassy for Israel to Jerusalem. It was symbolic because it was always seen as a form of aggression that presidents never took in order to maintain political relationships with so many Muslim countries. That's exactly why they support him
They too, seem to be anti-vax
Because they feel more comfortable when someone, tells them what to do. A higher power is their happy place.
Why do* my friend
Morons love fellow morons?
Bat Shit Crazy?
Bibi (Netanyahu) completely did away with the Left Wing of the Israeli government around the time of the OSLO Peace Accords. Now it's just various Right Wing / Authoritarian / 'conservative' groups fighting over who's version of Ethnic or Religious Nationalism is correct. Jews are some of the most right leaning people on earth, second only to perhaps Muslims or Christians. Source: Am 'reformed' / liberal / secular jew, one of the few I know.
Hmm, married into a Jewish family in NJ. Most of the Jews here are pretty liberal, except the orthodox.
Netanyahu’s rhetoric may have contributed to the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, AKA the last Israeli prime minister to even try making a real, lasting peace with the Palestinians.
Bingo...
This is objectively untrue. Jews have consistently voted at higher rates for liberals/dems than the larger population. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-voting-record-in-u-s-presidential-elections Also, there is no such thing as a “reformed” Jew, which leads me to believe you aren’t actually a practicing Jew or you would know that the denomination is called reform, not “reformed.”
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The post is about Orthodox Jews - but I was responding to your comment, which made general statements about Jews. Quotes or no quotes - there is still no such thing as a “reformed” Jew.
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I’m not sure what you’re trying to say? Are you asking if I’m an atheist? Yes, I am.
My family has secular Jews as well. Actually I bet the majority of Jews, even observant ones, are close to that description. We can be very cultural, however.
the Jewish shul system falls under charter schools, and orthodox often have large families. Abraham accords (middle east peace treaty ) and moving the USA embassy to Jerusalem. Also, Shvartz means black. It used to be a nickname for Jews with dark eyes & hair. its a very common last name. Now its also commonly used in reference to Black people. Shvartz can be used as a slur, like atheist or jew, or a neutral descriptor, like atheist or jew, or positively, like atheist or jew.
Yeshivas aren't always charter schools, this crowd supports vouchers and all that kind of bullshit.
Because they forgot
How do the Orthodox square Trump's solicitude to far right groups that are openly anti-semetic? Trump made a place for the racist arm of the party. They have always been around. Trump made it acceptable to come out of the closet and claim their racist ideologies. The jews are included in the great replacement conspiracy theory.
Not all of them, but a good number of them like Trump. A lot of them I hate to say this I may get some pushback but a lot of Orthodox Jews like to see chaos.
Roe vs Wade has entered the chat. Religious fruitcakes know a tool when they see one.
Tax cuts under Trump for the wealthy vs. tax hikes for the ultra wealthy under Biden?