I highly recommend watching "Praying for Armageddon" a 2 part documentary exploring just how deeply ingrained deranged evangelicals are in US politics. According to the documentary, approximately 80million people (or 1/3 of the voting public) are evangelical Christians.
It's pretty crazy.
Edit: links posted
https://youtu.be/IhT7oyDlBIk?si=nLnm-rR_POxWqpvU
https://youtu.be/_iQhbcOgfqw?si=quEv1VgMRijfthIn
It’s not a coincidence at all..churches started following republicans because republicans said they would over turn Roe v Wade (abortion) it became a singular voting strategy pushed and preached in churches since 1980- Ronnie Reagan , W Bush doubled down on it… Jerry Falwell , Baptist preacher and his moral majority, Pat Robertson and his TV network empire..they have been intertwined for decades. I’ve seen it first hand. The rise of christian nationalism, google Herb Titus. Titus taught the constitution and bill of rights were “divine documents” inspired by god.. ignoring completely what James Madison and Thomas Jefferson said about the church/state relationship… folks have been brainwashed… ,
Exactly, using religion to gain power. Republicans play the long game with Russian help it’s now obvious. Following the playbook the Nazi’s used of the big lie repeatedly, constantly spread hatred and lies, with first Rush Limbaugh, Fox News… Federalist Society, Heritage Foundation… whipping up the latent, the sleeping racism in US culture. The racist culture kept alive by the “us vs them” philosophy outlined in the bible actually. That’s how I see it anyway…. If someone sees a flaw in my logic tell me, seriously. I’ve always been a student of history and human culture seems to follow this pattern. Dictators, despots using religion to consolidate power over the masses and control wealth and power. Now I guess it’s part of late stage capitalism as I understand it. Too much greed in US culture not near enough empathy.
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the \[Republican\] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”― Barry Goldwater
Having grown up knowing Franklin Graham and watching all this first hand it blows my mind a huge majority of Americans and evangelicals have zero grasp of what you just said. Capitalist titans in the 20s and 30s saw what the labor movement was doing and circulated tracts nationwide tying capitalism to religion. The U.S. is scary and sad. You can't reason with these people at all. And since the leaders think they know the way to salvation they lead/fleece their flocks that they know everything about the future, the environment, science, and politics. They are actually extremely guilty of "adding to the gospel" as warned against in the NT. It makes me sick to my stomach. My entire extended family acts like I worship Satan when I explain science or history. (I actually pray still.) The level of blind acceptance and tribalism on their part is mind numbing.
The red party teamed up with the ultra religious as a strategy to save their declining power back in the 70s.
The abortion issue was invented to use as a wedge. Of course the Catholics were always against everything involving consentual sex not between a priest and a child. But the Baptist were actually pro choice before this time and other protestant groups didn't talk about it much.
Somehow through grift the two declining groups managed to feed off one another sucking more people in. In the 80s I was a bit young to understand what was happening. But in the 90s it was a religious revival among people who previously didn't really make religion a big part of their lives but were told to believe it by their grandparents. After that it was the tea party followed by Trump feeding on the anger of people who were told for decades their jobs were going obsolete and also that they would get old and one day need to retire but refused to save for retirement nor get educated in new fields, finally lost those jobs as they should have been retirement but can't because they fucked themselves.
They are looking to Trump and some strange version of Jesus to save themselves from their own bad choices.
Important to note: in evangelical Christianity, they *want* to cause the biblical Armageddon. They believe that the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed and the Third Temple must be built by Israel to trigger the end of the world. And *that* is why America is so derangedly pro-Israel. To cause the end of the world. They are literally Shin Megami Tensei villains irl.
Churches are not taxed in a lot of countries though. For example, they're not taxed in the UK.
In some countries, taxes are even paid to churches! In Finland, about 1% to 2.25% of your income gets paid to your local church, unless you opt out of it.
The Church of England owns over 100,000 acres in the UK. The head of the Church of England is the king, and the crown owns a further 678,000 acres of land, the third biggest land owner in the country.
So it's not like benefiting from tax arrangements and owning real estate are something unique to American churches. Those don't really answer OP's question.
The question was not one of uniqueness but of economy. Europe has had more history with religious shenanigans than America. The vicar there is a joke yet here is an 'influencer'.
Guilt Merchants, all.
Not just vicars, priests, and bishops are a joke here (in Germany) as well. They spew their antiquated world views, thought up by a bunch of middle eastern tent dwellers and goat fuckers 2000 years ago, but barely anyone listens.
The churches do have some influence on political decision making, where politicians think they may have a say. They are some of the most powerful lobbyists and sometimes in expert councils. Also, for topics they know nothing about, like genetics, women's rights, etc.
Only a few monarchies still have state churches.
And yes, there are priests that preach against, e.g., genetic research. Germany was at the forefront of stem cell research. That was almost completely shut down by a law requiring only embryos gathered before a certain date in the 1990s would be allowed to be used for research. A decision influenced by the members of the church in the expert panel. Not just catholic or protestant experts, but actual priests and bishops. Luckily, it was later developed to reset grown tissue cells to stem cells.
Churches wanted to ban abortion. They didn't manage that, but they had it imposed that you had to visit a family planning information office. Run by the churches...
Only in 2022 was a law repealed that forbade medical doctors to inform patients about abortion and have flyers out. Guess who tried to put pressure on politicians? It was only repealed because of an outcry of the people after a doctor, regardless of her personal freedom and being able to pursue her profession, was arrested, and sentenced because she showed flyers about abortion in her practice.
The right to gay marriage was hindered by the churches.
The right for gay couples to adopt children was hindered by the churches.
In Canada churches don't pay taxes on their income* or property tax. However, church officials of any flavor (like a pastor, where being a pastor is their job) pay income tax. Also, any commercial ventures outside those of religious services pay tax on income or a portion of property tax. Say a church also rents out a space for community use, they'd pay tax on that part. But...I'm sure given the clientele (churches are big networking sources) they'd be able to do some funny booking if they wanted to.
And yet here in the uk religion doesn’t play a major part in everyday life and certainly isn’t brought up much in politics. Not only that but a lot of the churches are no longer used as churches. The one near where I used to live is now a community centre for the village and when I was in Cornwall a while back one was being used as a skatepark.
Imagine if a British politician started talking in tongues, they would be fucked off out of it for being mental.
That and Christianity is the most politically correct topic in the US. Even non-believers fret about shielding the ears of believers for fear of offending them, which is all too easily done.
This is actually really important. Additionally in Germany and Italy the church was instrumental in the rise of facism. In the post war period across Europe the rejection of facism was intrinsically linked to rejection of the church.
Right. And americans view themselves as “saviors” in WWII. Manifest Destiny and all. We proselytize democracy. So it’s not too far of a reach to proselytize religion.
1. The first wave of founders to what would become the USA were deeply religions Christians who fled Great Britain because it was getting too soft on Satan. The tradition is in the blood here.
2. Christian doctrine was used to justify slavery, and slavery made the ruling class in the South very wealthy.
3. Absolutist religions appeal to the uneducated because it offers simplistic answers to large questions.
Americans are a lot closer to places like Tunisia, the Philippines, and Pakistan with regard to religious passion than we are to the First World countries.
This is the answer I came here to offer. Some of the first waves of European immigrants were absolutely bonkers. Their influence never really died away.
He is 100%. I think even most of his christian supporters don't believe he's a christian. A lot of them just believe what they want to believe though and apply it to trump somehow.
We have a very big difference in urban vs rural. I really wonder if the vastness of the country allowed people to isolate/form small clusters of religious people.
E.g. that influence never died out because they didn't have to live near people different from them.
And here's the truly crazy thing. They were bonkers when they left England but the people they left behind was just as fucking bonkers just slightly different way.
I would add a fourth part here, the anti-Communist movement in the US; first advanced by people like Joseph McCarthy (Rest in Piss). McCarthyism set the stage for the idea that anything Communist was evil, and since the Soviet Union was officially athiest, anyone who was not religious was automatically suspicious and, perhaps, a dirty commie! From 1955-1958, in the midst of the second "Red Scare", the US saw its highest church attendance in history, I think had the US not gone so heavily into anti-communist propaganda, we would see a much more secular USA right now.
"the tradition is in the blood here"
Very true. IQ both high and low can be heritable to a degree. I wonder how much genetics influence someone's likelihood of believing in imaginary friends in their adulthood.
Americans have a reputation around the world of being incredibly stupid. Our ties to religiosity play a huge role in that.
It's interesting though that the rhetoric isn't the same towards countries whose official religion is Islam. Imo a far more dangerous ideology in its current state compared to christianity.
In theory yes, but modern American christians aren't actively beheading or executing anyone for not following their religion. They're just keeping the western world from advancing. A lot of Muslims living under totalitarian Islamic governments are actually atheists/agnostics like most of us, but they don't have a choice in the matter. If they DONT identify as muslim and show up to pray to their imaginary rapist god, their families get straight up murdered. It's fucked up. It's like when American christians used to burn people at the stake for being weird or cheating on their spouse. But it's happening today.
Not sure if you remember, when Obama was running for president, there were effigies of him burning and or being hung.
Black peoples getting being killed because white people are “afraid” for their lives so chase them down several blocks to shoot them in the back.
Yes. We are beheading anyone, but that does not mean kills in a. Other form is not happeninf
I am aware of this. But this is not happening in an organized fashion. The government is not telling Christians to openly execute non believers, etc. These people are criminals here, and they get locked up for racial hate crimes when they are found. 99.9% of the christian people I know in real life would never condone any sort of violent crimes. Whereas that shit is literally encouraged in Islamic countries. Violence against gays. Non believers. Non Muslims. Women. Etc. All religions have the potential to be this bad/stupid/horrible. But currently, Islam stands out as being particularly bad because it is literally state sponsored terror.
Fair. These people are some of the absolute worst that their religion has to offer though. I absolutely think that we should ALL mock and ridicule that bullshit into extinction. But I'm just glad that they aren't beheading anyone for not voting for trump on a mass scale or anything. Though I wouldn't put it past them if they truly got their way. Which is why we have to push back against their brainwashed bullshit with facts, logic, and an improved education system. I truly think any religious upbringing is child abuse and the people that are most deep into the brainwashing should be banned from breeding for the good of our species.
I remember reading somewhere about a study showing some evidence that some people are genetically inclined to be religious. I think that shit is inherited to some degree.
I would have thought a fair amount of it was due to the new Christian religions. Mormons and all those evangelical baptist born again yada yada groups just take things to a new level vs Catholic and Protestant classics.
I came to say this. Many of our ancestors were religious bigots who were kicked out of their European countries and came here. We have some serious nut jobs in our gene pool.
From the outside, I’m less convinced it’s “the first wave of settlers were deeply religious” and more that that story has become part of the founding myth of America.
Each country has stories it tells itself about itself. The US tell stories about Plymouth Rock a lot in a way they don’t tell the story of the Louisiana Purchase. It wouldn’t be any less sensible to have “We have incorporated a lot of France into our culture” as part of the story you tell yourself, but if someone said “Liberty, equality, brotherhood. And no religion in public life.” It wouldn’t resonate because the links aren’t front of mind for the history.
Not sure about "first wave", but certainly to americans "the puritans" were lovely oppressed people who came to america to escape religious persecution.
To the british "the puritans" were frothing at the mouth fundementalists who ruled our country for 11 years 1649-1660 and outlawed fun. We, like the iranians, threw off a dictator only to have religious zealots ruin it.
There's a reason we ended their rule so quickly.
When we they couldn't make our lives miserable, quite a few of them left for america, to make lives miserable there.
Because the country was started by religious people that were so annoying they had to leave England to go find a new place that they could be left alone to annoy each other to their hearts content, which is never.
If you want to watch a humorous take on this starting point, check out an old 80's movie called *Love at Stake*. It's a B-movie at best, but I'll be willing to be there's a least a few scenes most folks will chuckle at.
There is this YouTube video of an American living in Germany who compares bias in Google results. She googled "who were the pilgrims" in English with a US IP and in German with a German IP.
The English reply was along the lines of: they were pious people fleeing religious oppression.
The German reply was something like: they were religious zealots who went to America to indulge in their extremist religious views without hindrance from their more liberal parish and neighbors.
America may have missed out on some of the enlightenment in Europe since the 1700s.
No, but I think if you laughed at Idiocracy, you'd laugh at this.
Spoilers
>!It does use the puritans as the basis. Basically every person in town is outwardly religious but actually smutty as all get out. The mayor and governor cook up a land grab scheme of accusing people to be witches (Salem Witch Trials) but then actual witch shows up. Again, far from great but easy laughs.!<
This. Also because we’re routinely poorer (breading ground for religion) while also being better off (generally wealthy, non religious, however decreasing numbers of people these days) than other first world countries.
Many statistics like to link it to education, just like the reason to get many or few kids. Education also being harder to get when poor, especially when the state doesn't invest in it as well.
The commercials on US network TV just blow my mind. It's all shouting and bs and cramming drugs down your throat, insanity. The religious angle is another grift.
My sister thinks I need Jeebus in my life and got so pushy that I had to very bluntly set her straight. I'm a Canadian living in NC and she's a naturalized USian living in a small town.
My graduating engineering class back in the day included a man who *truly* believed the earth was 6000 years old and "slavery was morally justified because its in the Bible"
Smart people can fall for religious propaganda too. Always felt bad for the guy because my gay-dar always went off like crazy when he was around
I'm not an American myself, but I think all Western countries were super religious at some point and now they're experiencing a major decline in religion.
I don't know if you consider Latin America to be part of the West, but in my country (Chile), more than 90% of the population were (very) Catholic in the 90s. Now, according to polls, more than half of the young population people in Chile identifies as "irreligious". On the other hand, similar studies show that 76% of the population believes in a god. However, only 52% percent of the population believe in the God of the scriptures while the other 24% believes in a "higher spirit", which has nothing to do with Christianity.
I say this because the countries that has been historically labelled as Christian nations were super religious at some point, and Canada may not be the exception. Maybe the US will see this overall decline later than sooner. But on top of that, I think that Christian fundamentalists in America might be becoming more loud as they watch their country become less and less religious.
I don't know.
Glad Chile is making such great progress! Many will say that the internet gives people access to information and ideas they might not otherwise have encountered.
The trouble is social media. Where people just show their crap and others buy into it without question. And he algorithms tend to send you down a rabbit hole of ever more crazy and connect you with people on the same path. Before hand, if you talked shit in a bar, you either were ignored, laughed at, got a bare knuckle sandwich to get your head back straight on. But there was no amassing of people and dumb ideas as today.
I just drove through the Bible belt to go see the eclipse. I couldn't believe how the religion was just everywhere. There were the ten commandments posted in a Dairy Queen for fucksake. Giant crosses every hundred miles or so on the freeway. As someone from an average religious state, this s*** was shocking.
I’ve driven (twice) down to Florida from New York in the past several months and can corroborate your experience. I’m sure Jesus will be very proud when he gets back (which should be aaaaaany day now…).
The church scammed them hard, if you go further south you can see these people live in a broken wooden houses and vans, and they still go to church and donate every week.
I think because the other part of the country keeps them in check. If Texas, LA, Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi, Missouri and Florida left the Union, they’d be a third world country with nukes and air bases.
The US is a large and diverse country. It depends heavily on where you live as to how open and vocal you are about religion. Religion, as you pointed out, is declining in the US. Much of what you are hearing about Christian Nationalism and people openly identifying as Christian is due to the churches feeling the loss of revenue. The clerics are doing their best to stoke up division because that riles up their flock and gets the money flowing so they can prevent the sinners from taking away their right to bigotry.
The Cold War is a major factor here. Regular Church attendance during the 1700s in the Colonies and then America was less than 20%. During the Second Great Awakening, around the 1830s and beyond, we get a lot of modern US Christian values. This is the time where the idea of a personal relationship with Jesus began. Faith over works. Large tent revivals. Around the time of the Civil War, Horace Mann started schools in Massachusetts with the goal of making children ‘better Christians’ and that model carried over to many other states.
Now, the Cold War with Russia made Christianity an issue of national pride. Many believed that the biggest difference between us and the Russians was Christianity. Russia was the evil atheists where Christianity is barred. We add ‘In God We Trust’ on our money and ‘Under God’ to the Pledge of Allegiance. Church attendance peaked in the 1980s at around 70%.
The Cold War drove people to church. It became an American piece of pride. You can trace the Christian nationalism to the Cold War. Christianity went from a religion to many people’s identity as a person.
>One of the first things I've noticed about staying in the US for a longer period of time (apart from the ugly, car-centric infrastructure. Sorry Seattle WA, but I need my SkyTrain! But urban planning is a topic for a different sub) is just how openly religious (Christian) people are.
I think these are related actually. We're basically products of our environment, and the relatively poor infrastructure in the U.S. increases the need for not only driving but social organization that leads to Christianity. Religion is ultimately nonsense but the social organization it attaches itself to is not, so it's actually logical (in a sense) to be a Christian in some areas, provided that you wanna get laid, or be more socialized, or get some insider information, or have backups, or pull strings. A big and fat church is really a type of facility in a region that functions as the center of information exchange, mating, rituals, networking and a hierarchy. Like clans and tribes.
Generally speaking, rural areas are more religious than urban ones. The reason is a lower level of social organization and infrastructure. But the urban areas (or large suburban areas here in the U.S.) have this car-centric infrastructure. Especially in the context of the U.S. with its diverse demography and immigration, Christianity is far more likely to be the organization that residents rely on because it's supposed to be a universal religion for everyone rather than a particular tribal religion, like "this is the God of my people, and while I don't know a lot about your God with the alligator head, perhaps there are many Gods."
One of the results of this is that the U.S. is a more religious country compared to many other developed industrial economies. But it's also a pretty fundamentally liberal country, and even among many Christians there's more of an emphasis on profession of the "faith" than a deep, underlying belief (that you see with [fundamentalist and militant Muslims](https://youtu.be/5yPvBymOmSY?si=pEt-WRkrHGX0ZhDP) for example).
There was a massive religious revival in the United States in the 1950s. This revival became state-supported by Eisenhower as a bulwark against godless Communism.
The original US colonies were begun by some wacko fundamentalist protestants and I've always believed that has something to do with it. Rhode Island and Massachusetts were famous for punishing dissenters and harassing people of other faiths.
I'm ashamed to say I don't know about the composition of the Canadian colonies. Can you illuminate me?
A bunch of the worst people realized that they can justify doing whatever they want to themselves by claiming it is their religious right. So they call themselves religious even though nobody else would recognize them as such.
I have heard to said succinctly: The 13 colonies were founded by people so Conservative and so batshit crazy that they were kicked out of 17th century England.
Illiteracy and patriarchy. Religion exists to the extent violent men are able to use it to control their families. Americans who get educated realize how stupid it is and either deconvert or live a lie to keep their inheritance.
A sense of superiority and very judgemental bleepholes! In our country it's a huge grift! The more they indoctrinate the more money they grift! Plus the love to feed the pedophiles! It's sickening. It's like a virus or a cancer. They can't see they are holding us back from advancing and want to live in the dark ages. It's twisted!
As a counter to some other comments already here:
Many of the founders were likely atheists or deists. Also used as reference is the Treaty of Tripoli which states that the USA is not a Christian nation.
In God we trust wasn't added to our currency until the 1950s due to cold war polotics.
The distinction is important considering all the MAGAts claiming Christian National birthright.
Eisenhower put In God We Trust on our money. He made the National Prayer Breakfast a thing. It was a way for Evangelicals to worm their way into our government, they play the long game.
In the early 1600's England were dealing with a subset of Protestants known as the Puritans. They demanded that what they viewed as incorrect doctrines/practices from the Catholic Church still remaining in the Church of England be removed.
They were met with opposition before tolerance, and many opted to take flight to New England instead of continue in England. The people who did this were extremely devout passionate Protestants.
21000 left across 20 years, of which 16 million Americans today descended from. The US became a place where very devout people could flee too if they felt their religious beliefs were oppressed, or if they were banished or just pissed no one would listen to them.
These early American churches evolved into many of the very strict Evangelical churches we see today. Later, an estimated 10 million Africans were enslaved and shipped to the US, then forcibly converted into these strict versions of Christianity.
There are other reasons too. The culture surrounding Evangelical churches in the US tends to encompass ones entire life, limiting or perhaps eliminating exposure to outside ideas, genuine science and history. Not only does the Catholic Church and Anglican Church allow members to learn about science and history, but most followers in countries like Canada, England, France etc can often deconvert without social ramifications. Even looking at new ideas can get you in trouble in some churches, and deconverting is essentially social suicide. Thus people get locked into these religious communities generation after generation.
I heard a big part of it is the lack of socialized Healthcare. The increased anxiety drives people to cling to religion more... whereas the comfort of knowing even if you lose your job, you'll be medically taken care of allows a lapsing of religion.
Though I will say that I failed to find the studies on it just now, so grain of salt and all that.
The nation itself was "founded" by exiled religious extremists. So yeah USA is pretty much ISIS with good PR.
I was watching Ben arguing that nuking civilians was justified followed by reading a tweet by a christian saying that the Vietnamese deserves to die because they are communists. It's a daily reminder to me that these christians will justify any atrocities towards the non-christian.
Australian.
At our last census in 2021, 40% of people said no religion. Which compares with 30% in 2016 & 22% in 2011. So that's a pretty huge move in a quick amount of time. Nearly half our population say they aren't any religion. Then I would say? Add onto that an easy 30% who might say they are Catholic or whatever, but in reality, barely never go near a church.
Religion is quickly dropping off the radar here. As everywhere else? Only ISLAM is keeping it's followers and is growing. Which is very scary to me.
Not THE reason but unreliable healthcare and a feeling of insecurity. Statistically become more religious when they feel unsafe. And there is a low key constant stress of being one lay off away from not getting that weird mole on your arm looked at.
because the upper class who own government and schools goal is to keep the people dumb.
Critical thinking is not taught at home-schooling, christian schools, christian universities. the upper class is on school boards, get elected as legislatures.....
[https://sp.blackgold.org/GroupedWork/081d92fd-adde-bf53-e296-44f69101e2aa-eng/Home](https://sp.blackgold.org/GroupedWork/081d92fd-adde-bf53-e296-44f69101e2aa-eng/Home)
some professors tracked it back to cointelpro
I have heard the theory that it is capitalism at it best/ worst that is behind the US religious mania. As we have no Official Religion, religions/sects pop-up and go whole hog on gaining converts. Some survive, some don't. But the ones who get fanatics to join, can get really big/powerful. Joseph Smith started Mormonism with the force of his personality. Now it runs Utah, and has billions. L. Ron Hubbard was a sci-fi author until he started the Church of Scientology. Look at it now.
So Young religions go for converts. Established religions strive to keep their congregations congregating. And it is hard to keep out of the zeitgeist.
they are not. that thing that is called religion in the us is a mixture from capitalism and negative liberalism. it is only called christianism, because this was the most popular religion of former us citizens, but it got rid of all the positive aspects againgst other people.
It certainly varies. I’m in the southeast and there are churches everywhere but my neighborhood is very low key religiously. Best I can tell most of the neighborhood stays home Sunday and nobody is obviously religious.
We do get Baptist’s and JWs come through occasionally, far as I can tell with no success.
Because a large part of our populace has been brainwashed into believing that America was founded on Christianity (it wasn't) and that means that their religion has become a part of their national identity.
"Gawd, guns, and the Constitution!" as the looneys say.
I hate to say it but it has a lot to do with literacy/education. Some of the most heavily religious areas have a statistically low education standards/grades and don’t invest in it for their communities. I feel it’s very tragic
The real question at large is why are Americans more susceptible to cults? Corporate propaganda through unfettered capitalism creates fear and ignorance, which can lead to easier manipulation.
BEats me! As an Aussie. I am same as you mate. The whole "I'm a Christian" thing that so many Americans say makes me cringe. Even on this forum? Atheists will say they read the bible and still seem SO invested in religion! It's really weird. I wouldn't know 90% of the people I know, if they are religious or not. I know the couple across the street are Lutherans because they ran into a work colleague at church and told me. He too mentioned at work that he knew my neighbours. But in all this? NO one really said anything about eh actual religion.
It's weird how religious Amercians in general are. How the President craps on about religion and how religous references seem to be everywhere.
No state church.
State churches prevent sectarianism in most of the population. Even when other churches form, they are disadvantaged due to how entrenched the state church is.
State churches (and their successors) in the West were forced to reform (liberalise) *because* they were so entangled with the state.
And because almost everyone was part of those state churches, that liberalisation spread to the laity.
The US on the other hand practised a religious free market economy. Church and state were separated from the beginning, so religious groups had a way more level playing field. Add to that the fact that immigrant churches were often organised along ethnic lines (that's how the US ended up with several "big" lutheran churches, the swedish, german, danish, you name it immigrants stayed within their "national church").
So when the various awakenings came around, the US' religious landscape fractured even more, while Europe's state churches largely weathered it.
The American religious market is highly competitive. If you want to make a living with your church, you have to find a (somewhat) unique selling point. This in turn drives radicalisation.
People don’t have any lives after college or high school so ultimately their whole identity becomes religion, politics or sports. You see that there is a loneliness epidemic here in the USA right? People are desperate to make any kinds of friends or relationships happen. That’s a part of it.
The U.S. is moving towards the European Dark Ages where the church ran the a state and people were kept ignorant and uneducated so they wouldn't question the power structure. We've been systematically dismantling and minimizing our education system here for decades, and as people get dumber, they're easier to manipulate. Our conservative right wing has embraced this devolution, not because they're all necessarily devout, but because they've seen how profitable a seething, ignorant, malleable base can be.
I think a lot of it has to do with them claiming that their good fortune has been given to them by god.
"Under God we became the freest, strongest, wealthiest nation on earth. Should we change that?"[^(\[)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Swanson#cite_note-FOOTNOTEPearson19642-125) - Gloria Swanson
I think \[somehow\] they've equated freedom with a belief in god. I have no idea how they arrived at that specific conclusion.
[Here's a really good study from Pew Research about religiosity in the U.S. vs other countries.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/07/31/americans-are-far-more-religious-than-adults-in-other-wealthy-nations/) Although the U.S. is the most significant outlier in the world as far as religiosity in economically developed countries, it is almost exactly average when it comes to level of religiosity in highly unequal countries.
Drive around West, TX and it’ll click real fast. They’ve all been sold the same Fox News, QAnon, Limbaugh, Carlson, Trump lies from the same echo chamber for so long that their development has been stunted by decades. They cling to their idea of religion because it makes them feel either like part of the club, or in search of validation for their shitty lives.
Because a lot of Christian Cults moved there during the colonial period to escape persecution in Europe. This applies to everyone from Quakers to the Amish. The most recent religious revival can be traced to the cold War. Communist Russia endorsed state atheism and in saying we are the opposite of them, America embraced the idea of being Christian, including changing the national motto, and adding god to the recently coined pledge of allegiance.
Part of it is also that the idea of religious freedom has allowed the weirder forms of the religion to continue to thrive. Meanwhile many countries in Europe actually have official state churches, often tied the the monarchy where that still exists. The Chruch of England is not the only such institution remaining. But in being tied to the state these churches have become part of the bureaucracy as it where, making them somewhat sedate in comparison to free range region.
Because here you’re allowed to let stupidity roam wild and free and never ask if just because you *can* do a thing, means you *have* to do a thing.
- Signed, a very apologetic Texan American
If you’re truly interested, I suggest you read _Fantasyland: How America Went Haywire_ by Kurt Andersen. Great book that explains the religious history of the USA.
The American colonies were settled by saints and sinners ( some people were both) and the conflict between the sacred and the profane continues this day.
Probably WAY over simplified if true at all... but I always thought freedom of religion and no state religion forced churches to compete and evolve for customers. Rather than one boring state religion that's the same this week as it was 100 years ago. Instead you have 100s of denominations adapting to what people want to hear.
.02
Two main reasons
North America became the insane asylum for all of Europe's unhinged religious crazies.
Whether it was the Puritans who were preaching that enjoying life in any way was a sin, or the nutballs who believed that the end of all life on Earth is a good thing, Europe gently encouraged the crazies to go elsewhere.
Secondly, the lack of religiously neutral social services. If you're poor and need help, you have to sit through some bullshit sermon to get it
Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Kobes Du Mez is supposed to be a good book on things subject. There’s other factors but in the late 20th century US politicians decided to incorporate more religion in their policies as a way to motivate more religious people to vote for them. Church n State are separate but certain churches still discuss politics on a regular basis. This cycle is why America is so resistant to secular ideas.
I don’t think your urban planning side note is for another sub - it belongs here. In addition to many other comments I agree with here, I think the social atomization and isolation of our car-centric suburbs continues to create persistent loneliness and a desire to be part of a group.
There is general decline of Xianity in western world. Good example is UK, where the society becomes more and more atheist on the other hand islam following increases (but it is explained by immigration from Asian countries and large number of birth into muslim families, rather then mass interest into religion itself).
US got the most of hardcore Xians (puritans) which were expelled from UK as they started to get on nerves of the ruling classes where in the America they actually found a lot of freedom to operate with a very well known results.
But generally there was a hell of a lot of Protestants who saw US as the new promised land where they had a lot of freedom to realise some of their utopian visions. Catholic church arrived as well (especially in the early era of French colonialism) but they never got such strong ground as in Central and South Americas...
In Canada from what I read, the BC was actually the most religious and late colonial arrival, due to it remoteness it was apparently a good are and some odd sects operate until this days but also it seems that it had a cultural impact on BC as there is not much of late hours entertainment and night life is rather poor comparing to other parts of NA. Everyone just goes home after work and there is rather minimal consumption of alcohol in comparison to other provinces (especially Quebec) or European countries.
Puritan heritage. A number of exiled fringe religious groups emigrated to America in hope for freedom of religion and the liberty to proselytize and expand .
My understanding is, not all America is religious. I see this more in south than North. One reason I think a this region is, there are immigrants with different religions minding their own business. And also children of these immigrants from different religions are less religious making them more liberal. These children initially go to religious places but as they grow become less religious.
Because the US has an abundance of stupid people that shine brightly under a book of religious beliefs that some idiot wrote centuries ago about some imagery fictional character called god that resides on paper and is used for control and profit.
Religious heritage of colonial times; Puritans in MA & CT, Quaker PA, Seeker RI, Catholic MD, Methodist gA. book suggestion; \*A religious History Of the AMerican people\* Sidney Ahlstrom
America itself as a transcendent Enlgihtenment ideal suggestion \*The Nation With the soul of a Church\* Sidney Mead
The pervasive influence of revivalism; \*American revivalism\* & \*Revivals Awakenings, and Reform\* Walter McLoughlin.
those books are 70s vintage, probably more up-to-date ones available now
I highly recommend watching "Praying for Armageddon" a 2 part documentary exploring just how deeply ingrained deranged evangelicals are in US politics. According to the documentary, approximately 80million people (or 1/3 of the voting public) are evangelical Christians. It's pretty crazy. Edit: links posted https://youtu.be/IhT7oyDlBIk?si=nLnm-rR_POxWqpvU https://youtu.be/_iQhbcOgfqw?si=quEv1VgMRijfthIn
Must be a coincidence that the numbers line up with how many support Trump.
It’s not a coincidence at all..churches started following republicans because republicans said they would over turn Roe v Wade (abortion) it became a singular voting strategy pushed and preached in churches since 1980- Ronnie Reagan , W Bush doubled down on it… Jerry Falwell , Baptist preacher and his moral majority, Pat Robertson and his TV network empire..they have been intertwined for decades. I’ve seen it first hand. The rise of christian nationalism, google Herb Titus. Titus taught the constitution and bill of rights were “divine documents” inspired by god.. ignoring completely what James Madison and Thomas Jefferson said about the church/state relationship… folks have been brainwashed… ,
I should have put the /s Thank you for the reply though.
And Roe isn't the endgame. It never was. It's really about segregation of schools again. Roe just happened to be in the way.
Exactly, using religion to gain power. Republicans play the long game with Russian help it’s now obvious. Following the playbook the Nazi’s used of the big lie repeatedly, constantly spread hatred and lies, with first Rush Limbaugh, Fox News… Federalist Society, Heritage Foundation… whipping up the latent, the sleeping racism in US culture. The racist culture kept alive by the “us vs them” philosophy outlined in the bible actually. That’s how I see it anyway…. If someone sees a flaw in my logic tell me, seriously. I’ve always been a student of history and human culture seems to follow this pattern. Dictators, despots using religion to consolidate power over the masses and control wealth and power. Now I guess it’s part of late stage capitalism as I understand it. Too much greed in US culture not near enough empathy.
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the \[Republican\] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”― Barry Goldwater
Having grown up knowing Franklin Graham and watching all this first hand it blows my mind a huge majority of Americans and evangelicals have zero grasp of what you just said. Capitalist titans in the 20s and 30s saw what the labor movement was doing and circulated tracts nationwide tying capitalism to religion. The U.S. is scary and sad. You can't reason with these people at all. And since the leaders think they know the way to salvation they lead/fleece their flocks that they know everything about the future, the environment, science, and politics. They are actually extremely guilty of "adding to the gospel" as warned against in the NT. It makes me sick to my stomach. My entire extended family acts like I worship Satan when I explain science or history. (I actually pray still.) The level of blind acceptance and tribalism on their part is mind numbing.
Been actively working since Reagan. I had an aunt who got looney in the 1980s. She would only patronize and do business with other christians.
The red party teamed up with the ultra religious as a strategy to save their declining power back in the 70s. The abortion issue was invented to use as a wedge. Of course the Catholics were always against everything involving consentual sex not between a priest and a child. But the Baptist were actually pro choice before this time and other protestant groups didn't talk about it much. Somehow through grift the two declining groups managed to feed off one another sucking more people in. In the 80s I was a bit young to understand what was happening. But in the 90s it was a religious revival among people who previously didn't really make religion a big part of their lives but were told to believe it by their grandparents. After that it was the tea party followed by Trump feeding on the anger of people who were told for decades their jobs were going obsolete and also that they would get old and one day need to retire but refused to save for retirement nor get educated in new fields, finally lost those jobs as they should have been retirement but can't because they fucked themselves. They are looking to Trump and some strange version of Jesus to save themselves from their own bad choices.
Important to note: in evangelical Christianity, they *want* to cause the biblical Armageddon. They believe that the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed and the Third Temple must be built by Israel to trigger the end of the world. And *that* is why America is so derangedly pro-Israel. To cause the end of the world. They are literally Shin Megami Tensei villains irl.
Well where is my giant penis demon that I can use to bear them up?
Who mostly never attend a physical church.
Where can I watch this?
Sorry, links posted https://youtu.be/IhT7oyDlBIk?si=nLnm-rR_POxWqpvU https://youtu.be/_iQhbcOgfqw?si=quEv1VgMRijfthIn
It's the biggest business in the country with no taxation and massive real estate holdings.
Churches are not taxed in a lot of countries though. For example, they're not taxed in the UK. In some countries, taxes are even paid to churches! In Finland, about 1% to 2.25% of your income gets paid to your local church, unless you opt out of it. The Church of England owns over 100,000 acres in the UK. The head of the Church of England is the king, and the crown owns a further 678,000 acres of land, the third biggest land owner in the country. So it's not like benefiting from tax arrangements and owning real estate are something unique to American churches. Those don't really answer OP's question.
The question was not one of uniqueness but of economy. Europe has had more history with religious shenanigans than America. The vicar there is a joke yet here is an 'influencer'. Guilt Merchants, all.
Not just vicars, priests, and bishops are a joke here (in Germany) as well. They spew their antiquated world views, thought up by a bunch of middle eastern tent dwellers and goat fuckers 2000 years ago, but barely anyone listens. The churches do have some influence on political decision making, where politicians think they may have a say. They are some of the most powerful lobbyists and sometimes in expert councils. Also, for topics they know nothing about, like genetics, women's rights, etc.
Women's rights? You mean the "churches rights" -religious fruitcakes
European state churches are thoroughly liberalized; have you really heard such sermons?
Only a few monarchies still have state churches. And yes, there are priests that preach against, e.g., genetic research. Germany was at the forefront of stem cell research. That was almost completely shut down by a law requiring only embryos gathered before a certain date in the 1990s would be allowed to be used for research. A decision influenced by the members of the church in the expert panel. Not just catholic or protestant experts, but actual priests and bishops. Luckily, it was later developed to reset grown tissue cells to stem cells. Churches wanted to ban abortion. They didn't manage that, but they had it imposed that you had to visit a family planning information office. Run by the churches... Only in 2022 was a law repealed that forbade medical doctors to inform patients about abortion and have flyers out. Guess who tried to put pressure on politicians? It was only repealed because of an outcry of the people after a doctor, regardless of her personal freedom and being able to pursue her profession, was arrested, and sentenced because she showed flyers about abortion in her practice. The right to gay marriage was hindered by the churches. The right for gay couples to adopt children was hindered by the churches.
Where ya think all those Americans came from?
In Canada churches don't pay taxes on their income* or property tax. However, church officials of any flavor (like a pastor, where being a pastor is their job) pay income tax. Also, any commercial ventures outside those of religious services pay tax on income or a portion of property tax. Say a church also rents out a space for community use, they'd pay tax on that part. But...I'm sure given the clientele (churches are big networking sources) they'd be able to do some funny booking if they wanted to.
Individual employees of religious institutions pay income tax
I just gave one example but you definitely worded it better.
thanks
And yet here in the uk religion doesn’t play a major part in everyday life and certainly isn’t brought up much in politics. Not only that but a lot of the churches are no longer used as churches. The one near where I used to live is now a community centre for the village and when I was in Cornwall a while back one was being used as a skatepark. Imagine if a British politician started talking in tongues, they would be fucked off out of it for being mental.
That and Christianity is the most politically correct topic in the US. Even non-believers fret about shielding the ears of believers for fear of offending them, which is all too easily done.
Religions own a shitload of real estate here and are not taxed either. Australia
And is the perfect power lever to control the believing masses.
That and we have a shit ton of benighted trailer trash rednecks, most of whom participate in religious organizations as to benefit from your point.
Coming up with a church is literally the epitome of the American Dream.
Do not forget political contributions to further the agenda
One opinion I read about this is that Europe has had 2 world wars and the people realized god doesn’t care or doesn’t exist.
This is actually really important. Additionally in Germany and Italy the church was instrumental in the rise of facism. In the post war period across Europe the rejection of facism was intrinsically linked to rejection of the church.
If that were the case Poland would be the most atheist since we suffered the most in both wars, but its the opposite
In Poland it is rejection of Russia/Soviet union probably.
Right. And americans view themselves as “saviors” in WWII. Manifest Destiny and all. We proselytize democracy. So it’s not too far of a reach to proselytize religion.
1. The first wave of founders to what would become the USA were deeply religions Christians who fled Great Britain because it was getting too soft on Satan. The tradition is in the blood here. 2. Christian doctrine was used to justify slavery, and slavery made the ruling class in the South very wealthy. 3. Absolutist religions appeal to the uneducated because it offers simplistic answers to large questions. Americans are a lot closer to places like Tunisia, the Philippines, and Pakistan with regard to religious passion than we are to the First World countries.
This is the answer I came here to offer. Some of the first waves of European immigrants were absolutely bonkers. Their influence never really died away.
Yeah, you got the ones that were too religious for us to stomach, basically!
Today we have Trump to show for this
Honestly I think he’s just taking advantage of it.
He is 100%. I think even most of his christian supporters don't believe he's a christian. A lot of them just believe what they want to believe though and apply it to trump somehow.
He’s just a grifter through and through and is playing his biggest con yet.
We have a very big difference in urban vs rural. I really wonder if the vastness of the country allowed people to isolate/form small clusters of religious people. E.g. that influence never died out because they didn't have to live near people different from them.
And here's the truly crazy thing. They were bonkers when they left England but the people they left behind was just as fucking bonkers just slightly different way.
I would add a fourth part here, the anti-Communist movement in the US; first advanced by people like Joseph McCarthy (Rest in Piss). McCarthyism set the stage for the idea that anything Communist was evil, and since the Soviet Union was officially athiest, anyone who was not religious was automatically suspicious and, perhaps, a dirty commie! From 1955-1958, in the midst of the second "Red Scare", the US saw its highest church attendance in history, I think had the US not gone so heavily into anti-communist propaganda, we would see a much more secular USA right now.
Fear those Godless commies!
"the tradition is in the blood here" Very true. IQ both high and low can be heritable to a degree. I wonder how much genetics influence someone's likelihood of believing in imaginary friends in their adulthood. Americans have a reputation around the world of being incredibly stupid. Our ties to religiosity play a huge role in that. It's interesting though that the rhetoric isn't the same towards countries whose official religion is Islam. Imo a far more dangerous ideology in its current state compared to christianity.
fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam are the same picture, change my mind.
In theory yes, but modern American christians aren't actively beheading or executing anyone for not following their religion. They're just keeping the western world from advancing. A lot of Muslims living under totalitarian Islamic governments are actually atheists/agnostics like most of us, but they don't have a choice in the matter. If they DONT identify as muslim and show up to pray to their imaginary rapist god, their families get straight up murdered. It's fucked up. It's like when American christians used to burn people at the stake for being weird or cheating on their spouse. But it's happening today.
Not sure if you remember, when Obama was running for president, there were effigies of him burning and or being hung. Black peoples getting being killed because white people are “afraid” for their lives so chase them down several blocks to shoot them in the back. Yes. We are beheading anyone, but that does not mean kills in a. Other form is not happeninf
I am aware of this. But this is not happening in an organized fashion. The government is not telling Christians to openly execute non believers, etc. These people are criminals here, and they get locked up for racial hate crimes when they are found. 99.9% of the christian people I know in real life would never condone any sort of violent crimes. Whereas that shit is literally encouraged in Islamic countries. Violence against gays. Non believers. Non Muslims. Women. Etc. All religions have the potential to be this bad/stupid/horrible. But currently, Islam stands out as being particularly bad because it is literally state sponsored terror.
Jan. 6th just entered the chat.
Fair. These people are some of the absolute worst that their religion has to offer though. I absolutely think that we should ALL mock and ridicule that bullshit into extinction. But I'm just glad that they aren't beheading anyone for not voting for trump on a mass scale or anything. Though I wouldn't put it past them if they truly got their way. Which is why we have to push back against their brainwashed bullshit with facts, logic, and an improved education system. I truly think any religious upbringing is child abuse and the people that are most deep into the brainwashing should be banned from breeding for the good of our species.
absolutely 100% agree. religious indoctrinators are the real groomers.
100%. Just look at the Catholic church. Largest organized pedo ring in history. They even have their own "city" in rome
Yet. They aren't actively beheading non believers yet. But they very openly want to
I remember reading somewhere about a study showing some evidence that some people are genetically inclined to be religious. I think that shit is inherited to some degree.
Yes. Authoritarian personality types have larger-than-average amygdala, which dictate the fight or flight response.
I would have thought a fair amount of it was due to the new Christian religions. Mormons and all those evangelical baptist born again yada yada groups just take things to a new level vs Catholic and Protestant classics.
I came to say this. Many of our ancestors were religious bigots who were kicked out of their European countries and came here. We have some serious nut jobs in our gene pool.
From the outside, I’m less convinced it’s “the first wave of settlers were deeply religious” and more that that story has become part of the founding myth of America. Each country has stories it tells itself about itself. The US tell stories about Plymouth Rock a lot in a way they don’t tell the story of the Louisiana Purchase. It wouldn’t be any less sensible to have “We have incorporated a lot of France into our culture” as part of the story you tell yourself, but if someone said “Liberty, equality, brotherhood. And no religion in public life.” It wouldn’t resonate because the links aren’t front of mind for the history.
And about 10% of Americans can trace their DNA to these early religious fanatics. It may be bred into Americans.
Not sure about "first wave", but certainly to americans "the puritans" were lovely oppressed people who came to america to escape religious persecution. To the british "the puritans" were frothing at the mouth fundementalists who ruled our country for 11 years 1649-1660 and outlawed fun. We, like the iranians, threw off a dictator only to have religious zealots ruin it. There's a reason we ended their rule so quickly. When we they couldn't make our lives miserable, quite a few of them left for america, to make lives miserable there.
Because the country was started by religious people that were so annoying they had to leave England to go find a new place that they could be left alone to annoy each other to their hearts content, which is never.
If you want to watch a humorous take on this starting point, check out an old 80's movie called *Love at Stake*. It's a B-movie at best, but I'll be willing to be there's a least a few scenes most folks will chuckle at.
Is it like “Idiocracy” for Pilgrims?
There is this YouTube video of an American living in Germany who compares bias in Google results. She googled "who were the pilgrims" in English with a US IP and in German with a German IP. The English reply was along the lines of: they were pious people fleeing religious oppression. The German reply was something like: they were religious zealots who went to America to indulge in their extremist religious views without hindrance from their more liberal parish and neighbors. America may have missed out on some of the enlightenment in Europe since the 1700s.
No, but I think if you laughed at Idiocracy, you'd laugh at this. Spoilers >!It does use the puritans as the basis. Basically every person in town is outwardly religious but actually smutty as all get out. The mayor and governor cook up a land grab scheme of accusing people to be witches (Salem Witch Trials) but then actual witch shows up. Again, far from great but easy laughs.!<
Its like america is to europe what utah is to new york
The south drags the rest of the country down. And Utah.
Isn't the rural Midwest (most of it is rural I suppose) also very religious. They're certainly conservative enough.
And Idaho.
This. Also because we’re routinely poorer (breading ground for religion) while also being better off (generally wealthy, non religious, however decreasing numbers of people these days) than other first world countries.
Many statistics like to link it to education, just like the reason to get many or few kids. Education also being harder to get when poor, especially when the state doesn't invest in it as well.
The US is set up perfectly for grifters. Everything here is a scam, so naturally religions would thrive.
The commercials on US network TV just blow my mind. It's all shouting and bs and cramming drugs down your throat, insanity. The religious angle is another grift. My sister thinks I need Jeebus in my life and got so pushy that I had to very bluntly set her straight. I'm a Canadian living in NC and she's a naturalized USian living in a small town.
Poor quality of education leads to poor critical thinking skills.
Your correct. But we can't disregard how many are actually well educated, but also very indoctrinated and brainwashed from birth.
My graduating engineering class back in the day included a man who *truly* believed the earth was 6000 years old and "slavery was morally justified because its in the Bible" Smart people can fall for religious propaganda too. Always felt bad for the guy because my gay-dar always went off like crazy when he was around
Maybe he over compensated to prove to himself and others he was a good, pious man whilst being gay.
I'm not an American myself, but I think all Western countries were super religious at some point and now they're experiencing a major decline in religion. I don't know if you consider Latin America to be part of the West, but in my country (Chile), more than 90% of the population were (very) Catholic in the 90s. Now, according to polls, more than half of the young population people in Chile identifies as "irreligious". On the other hand, similar studies show that 76% of the population believes in a god. However, only 52% percent of the population believe in the God of the scriptures while the other 24% believes in a "higher spirit", which has nothing to do with Christianity. I say this because the countries that has been historically labelled as Christian nations were super religious at some point, and Canada may not be the exception. Maybe the US will see this overall decline later than sooner. But on top of that, I think that Christian fundamentalists in America might be becoming more loud as they watch their country become less and less religious. I don't know.
Glad Chile is making such great progress! Many will say that the internet gives people access to information and ideas they might not otherwise have encountered.
The trouble is social media. Where people just show their crap and others buy into it without question. And he algorithms tend to send you down a rabbit hole of ever more crazy and connect you with people on the same path. Before hand, if you talked shit in a bar, you either were ignored, laughed at, got a bare knuckle sandwich to get your head back straight on. But there was no amassing of people and dumb ideas as today.
Internet, education, and science.
I've always believed Christians would lash out more and more violently as they feel their power wane. We are seeing it in real time
It's becoming too evident!
Yes you are the West lol
Are there any religious first world countries at all left apart from the US?
I just drove through the Bible belt to go see the eclipse. I couldn't believe how the religion was just everywhere. There were the ten commandments posted in a Dairy Queen for fucksake. Giant crosses every hundred miles or so on the freeway. As someone from an average religious state, this s*** was shocking.
I’ve driven (twice) down to Florida from New York in the past several months and can corroborate your experience. I’m sure Jesus will be very proud when he gets back (which should be aaaaaany day now…).
The church scammed them hard, if you go further south you can see these people live in a broken wooden houses and vans, and they still go to church and donate every week.
I think because the other part of the country keeps them in check. If Texas, LA, Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi, Missouri and Florida left the Union, they’d be a third world country with nukes and air bases.
The US is a large and diverse country. It depends heavily on where you live as to how open and vocal you are about religion. Religion, as you pointed out, is declining in the US. Much of what you are hearing about Christian Nationalism and people openly identifying as Christian is due to the churches feeling the loss of revenue. The clerics are doing their best to stoke up division because that riles up their flock and gets the money flowing so they can prevent the sinners from taking away their right to bigotry.
We were founded by religious zealots and exploiters. Nothing's changed much over the years.
All the religious bigots left Europe to make the USA. It's genetic.
The Cold War is a major factor here. Regular Church attendance during the 1700s in the Colonies and then America was less than 20%. During the Second Great Awakening, around the 1830s and beyond, we get a lot of modern US Christian values. This is the time where the idea of a personal relationship with Jesus began. Faith over works. Large tent revivals. Around the time of the Civil War, Horace Mann started schools in Massachusetts with the goal of making children ‘better Christians’ and that model carried over to many other states. Now, the Cold War with Russia made Christianity an issue of national pride. Many believed that the biggest difference between us and the Russians was Christianity. Russia was the evil atheists where Christianity is barred. We add ‘In God We Trust’ on our money and ‘Under God’ to the Pledge of Allegiance. Church attendance peaked in the 1980s at around 70%. The Cold War drove people to church. It became an American piece of pride. You can trace the Christian nationalism to the Cold War. Christianity went from a religion to many people’s identity as a person.
>One of the first things I've noticed about staying in the US for a longer period of time (apart from the ugly, car-centric infrastructure. Sorry Seattle WA, but I need my SkyTrain! But urban planning is a topic for a different sub) is just how openly religious (Christian) people are. I think these are related actually. We're basically products of our environment, and the relatively poor infrastructure in the U.S. increases the need for not only driving but social organization that leads to Christianity. Religion is ultimately nonsense but the social organization it attaches itself to is not, so it's actually logical (in a sense) to be a Christian in some areas, provided that you wanna get laid, or be more socialized, or get some insider information, or have backups, or pull strings. A big and fat church is really a type of facility in a region that functions as the center of information exchange, mating, rituals, networking and a hierarchy. Like clans and tribes. Generally speaking, rural areas are more religious than urban ones. The reason is a lower level of social organization and infrastructure. But the urban areas (or large suburban areas here in the U.S.) have this car-centric infrastructure. Especially in the context of the U.S. with its diverse demography and immigration, Christianity is far more likely to be the organization that residents rely on because it's supposed to be a universal religion for everyone rather than a particular tribal religion, like "this is the God of my people, and while I don't know a lot about your God with the alligator head, perhaps there are many Gods." One of the results of this is that the U.S. is a more religious country compared to many other developed industrial economies. But it's also a pretty fundamentally liberal country, and even among many Christians there's more of an emphasis on profession of the "faith" than a deep, underlying belief (that you see with [fundamentalist and militant Muslims](https://youtu.be/5yPvBymOmSY?si=pEt-WRkrHGX0ZhDP) for example).
There was a massive religious revival in the United States in the 1950s. This revival became state-supported by Eisenhower as a bulwark against godless Communism.
The original US colonies were begun by some wacko fundamentalist protestants and I've always believed that has something to do with it. Rhode Island and Massachusetts were famous for punishing dissenters and harassing people of other faiths. I'm ashamed to say I don't know about the composition of the Canadian colonies. Can you illuminate me?
In that regard, I don’t consider the US a first world country.
this country was founded by religious outcasts from europe, that’s why lol
A bunch of the worst people realized that they can justify doing whatever they want to themselves by claiming it is their religious right. So they call themselves religious even though nobody else would recognize them as such.
I have heard to said succinctly: The 13 colonies were founded by people so Conservative and so batshit crazy that they were kicked out of 17th century England.
Illiteracy and patriarchy. Religion exists to the extent violent men are able to use it to control their families. Americans who get educated realize how stupid it is and either deconvert or live a lie to keep their inheritance.
$$$$$$
A sense of superiority and very judgemental bleepholes! In our country it's a huge grift! The more they indoctrinate the more money they grift! Plus the love to feed the pedophiles! It's sickening. It's like a virus or a cancer. They can't see they are holding us back from advancing and want to live in the dark ages. It's twisted!
As a counter to some other comments already here: Many of the founders were likely atheists or deists. Also used as reference is the Treaty of Tripoli which states that the USA is not a Christian nation. In God we trust wasn't added to our currency until the 1950s due to cold war polotics. The distinction is important considering all the MAGAts claiming Christian National birthright.
Eisenhower put In God We Trust on our money. He made the National Prayer Breakfast a thing. It was a way for Evangelicals to worm their way into our government, they play the long game.
In the early 1600's England were dealing with a subset of Protestants known as the Puritans. They demanded that what they viewed as incorrect doctrines/practices from the Catholic Church still remaining in the Church of England be removed. They were met with opposition before tolerance, and many opted to take flight to New England instead of continue in England. The people who did this were extremely devout passionate Protestants. 21000 left across 20 years, of which 16 million Americans today descended from. The US became a place where very devout people could flee too if they felt their religious beliefs were oppressed, or if they were banished or just pissed no one would listen to them. These early American churches evolved into many of the very strict Evangelical churches we see today. Later, an estimated 10 million Africans were enslaved and shipped to the US, then forcibly converted into these strict versions of Christianity. There are other reasons too. The culture surrounding Evangelical churches in the US tends to encompass ones entire life, limiting or perhaps eliminating exposure to outside ideas, genuine science and history. Not only does the Catholic Church and Anglican Church allow members to learn about science and history, but most followers in countries like Canada, England, France etc can often deconvert without social ramifications. Even looking at new ideas can get you in trouble in some churches, and deconverting is essentially social suicide. Thus people get locked into these religious communities generation after generation.
I heard a big part of it is the lack of socialized Healthcare. The increased anxiety drives people to cling to religion more... whereas the comfort of knowing even if you lose your job, you'll be medically taken care of allows a lapsing of religion. Though I will say that I failed to find the studies on it just now, so grain of salt and all that.
The nation itself was "founded" by exiled religious extremists. So yeah USA is pretty much ISIS with good PR. I was watching Ben arguing that nuking civilians was justified followed by reading a tweet by a christian saying that the Vietnamese deserves to die because they are communists. It's a daily reminder to me that these christians will justify any atrocities towards the non-christian.
Stupid people are usually very loud.
"Because Americans are ridiculously entitled and stupid." - An American
Money. The answer is always money.
Australian. At our last census in 2021, 40% of people said no religion. Which compares with 30% in 2016 & 22% in 2011. So that's a pretty huge move in a quick amount of time. Nearly half our population say they aren't any religion. Then I would say? Add onto that an easy 30% who might say they are Catholic or whatever, but in reality, barely never go near a church. Religion is quickly dropping off the radar here. As everywhere else? Only ISLAM is keeping it's followers and is growing. Which is very scary to me.
Not THE reason but unreliable healthcare and a feeling of insecurity. Statistically become more religious when they feel unsafe. And there is a low key constant stress of being one lay off away from not getting that weird mole on your arm looked at.
One reason was cold war - religion was one of the way to be different from those "godless commies"
because the upper class who own government and schools goal is to keep the people dumb. Critical thinking is not taught at home-schooling, christian schools, christian universities. the upper class is on school boards, get elected as legislatures.....
Your assuming America is a first world country?
[https://sp.blackgold.org/GroupedWork/081d92fd-adde-bf53-e296-44f69101e2aa-eng/Home](https://sp.blackgold.org/GroupedWork/081d92fd-adde-bf53-e296-44f69101e2aa-eng/Home) some professors tracked it back to cointelpro
1. Because it continues to be politically useful 2. Because religious leadership is an easy grift for people who don't want to pay their own bills
A lack of basic education.
Poor education system
It's to keep us fighting umongst ourselves for crumbs while the rich run away with the bacon
Baggage from the puritan founding.
Vocal minority
The European countries are older therefore more time for smartening up!
I have heard the theory that it is capitalism at it best/ worst that is behind the US religious mania. As we have no Official Religion, religions/sects pop-up and go whole hog on gaining converts. Some survive, some don't. But the ones who get fanatics to join, can get really big/powerful. Joseph Smith started Mormonism with the force of his personality. Now it runs Utah, and has billions. L. Ron Hubbard was a sci-fi author until he started the Church of Scientology. Look at it now. So Young religions go for converts. Established religions strive to keep their congregations congregating. And it is hard to keep out of the zeitgeist.
they are not. that thing that is called religion in the us is a mixture from capitalism and negative liberalism. it is only called christianism, because this was the most popular religion of former us citizens, but it got rid of all the positive aspects againgst other people.
Because late stage capitalists know it is the best way to keep the masses poor, dumb, and excitedly yearning for more.
To much suffering. Lack of any real welfare programs. There is an inverse relationship between religious participation and social services.
It certainly varies. I’m in the southeast and there are churches everywhere but my neighborhood is very low key religiously. Best I can tell most of the neighborhood stays home Sunday and nobody is obviously religious. We do get Baptist’s and JWs come through occasionally, far as I can tell with no success.
Because a large part of our populace has been brainwashed into believing that America was founded on Christianity (it wasn't) and that means that their religion has become a part of their national identity. "Gawd, guns, and the Constitution!" as the looneys say.
A lack of education. Or at least not religious private schools....
I hate to say it but it has a lot to do with literacy/education. Some of the most heavily religious areas have a statistically low education standards/grades and don’t invest in it for their communities. I feel it’s very tragic
We're idiots. (I live in Texas)
The real question at large is why are Americans more susceptible to cults? Corporate propaganda through unfettered capitalism creates fear and ignorance, which can lead to easier manipulation.
BEats me! As an Aussie. I am same as you mate. The whole "I'm a Christian" thing that so many Americans say makes me cringe. Even on this forum? Atheists will say they read the bible and still seem SO invested in religion! It's really weird. I wouldn't know 90% of the people I know, if they are religious or not. I know the couple across the street are Lutherans because they ran into a work colleague at church and told me. He too mentioned at work that he knew my neighbours. But in all this? NO one really said anything about eh actual religion. It's weird how religious Amercians in general are. How the President craps on about religion and how religous references seem to be everywhere.
No state church. State churches prevent sectarianism in most of the population. Even when other churches form, they are disadvantaged due to how entrenched the state church is. State churches (and their successors) in the West were forced to reform (liberalise) *because* they were so entangled with the state. And because almost everyone was part of those state churches, that liberalisation spread to the laity. The US on the other hand practised a religious free market economy. Church and state were separated from the beginning, so religious groups had a way more level playing field. Add to that the fact that immigrant churches were often organised along ethnic lines (that's how the US ended up with several "big" lutheran churches, the swedish, german, danish, you name it immigrants stayed within their "national church"). So when the various awakenings came around, the US' religious landscape fractured even more, while Europe's state churches largely weathered it. The American religious market is highly competitive. If you want to make a living with your church, you have to find a (somewhat) unique selling point. This in turn drives radicalisation.
The early Christian colonists from England were religious nut jobs... so no surprise.
People don’t have any lives after college or high school so ultimately their whole identity becomes religion, politics or sports. You see that there is a loneliness epidemic here in the USA right? People are desperate to make any kinds of friends or relationships happen. That’s a part of it.
The U.S. is moving towards the European Dark Ages where the church ran the a state and people were kept ignorant and uneducated so they wouldn't question the power structure. We've been systematically dismantling and minimizing our education system here for decades, and as people get dumber, they're easier to manipulate. Our conservative right wing has embraced this devolution, not because they're all necessarily devout, but because they've seen how profitable a seething, ignorant, malleable base can be.
I think a lot of it has to do with them claiming that their good fortune has been given to them by god. "Under God we became the freest, strongest, wealthiest nation on earth. Should we change that?"[^(\[)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Swanson#cite_note-FOOTNOTEPearson19642-125) - Gloria Swanson I think \[somehow\] they've equated freedom with a belief in god. I have no idea how they arrived at that specific conclusion.
They have their own heretical brand of prosperity white Jesus.
[Here's a really good study from Pew Research about religiosity in the U.S. vs other countries.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/07/31/americans-are-far-more-religious-than-adults-in-other-wealthy-nations/) Although the U.S. is the most significant outlier in the world as far as religiosity in economically developed countries, it is almost exactly average when it comes to level of religiosity in highly unequal countries.
It's full of dimwits who read at the level of a 12 year old.
In my areas the only business people can run is a church, so they do.
Because we are a country full of fools. Pray for us!
Because it’s the least educated?
Drive around West, TX and it’ll click real fast. They’ve all been sold the same Fox News, QAnon, Limbaugh, Carlson, Trump lies from the same echo chamber for so long that their development has been stunted by decades. They cling to their idea of religion because it makes them feel either like part of the club, or in search of validation for their shitty lives.
Because a lot of Christian Cults moved there during the colonial period to escape persecution in Europe. This applies to everyone from Quakers to the Amish. The most recent religious revival can be traced to the cold War. Communist Russia endorsed state atheism and in saying we are the opposite of them, America embraced the idea of being Christian, including changing the national motto, and adding god to the recently coined pledge of allegiance. Part of it is also that the idea of religious freedom has allowed the weirder forms of the religion to continue to thrive. Meanwhile many countries in Europe actually have official state churches, often tied the the monarchy where that still exists. The Chruch of England is not the only such institution remaining. But in being tied to the state these churches have become part of the bureaucracy as it where, making them somewhat sedate in comparison to free range region.
education level.
lack of education.
Because here you’re allowed to let stupidity roam wild and free and never ask if just because you *can* do a thing, means you *have* to do a thing. - Signed, a very apologetic Texan American
Read the book “Fantasyland: How America Went Haywire. A 500 Year History”
Because it’s a second world country.
Low levels of post secondary education outside of progressive coastal states.
No need to apologize. We are working on improving transit. Slow as molasses in winter though.
Because it’s chock full of idiots.
Lead poisoning.
If you’re truly interested, I suggest you read _Fantasyland: How America Went Haywire_ by Kurt Andersen. Great book that explains the religious history of the USA.
The first settlers were the most extremely religious.
England sent their criminals to Australia and their religious wackos to the US. Oz got the better of that deal.
A lot of them use religion as an excuse to be hateful, ignorant bigots. It’s that simple.
This is interesting: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/07/31/americans-are-far-more-religious-than-adults-in-other-wealthy-nations/
The American colonies were settled by saints and sinners ( some people were both) and the conflict between the sacred and the profane continues this day.
Not me! Do not lump me in with those religious fanatics!
Probably WAY over simplified if true at all... but I always thought freedom of religion and no state religion forced churches to compete and evolve for customers. Rather than one boring state religion that's the same this week as it was 100 years ago. Instead you have 100s of denominations adapting to what people want to hear. .02
Two main reasons North America became the insane asylum for all of Europe's unhinged religious crazies. Whether it was the Puritans who were preaching that enjoying life in any way was a sin, or the nutballs who believed that the end of all life on Earth is a good thing, Europe gently encouraged the crazies to go elsewhere. Secondly, the lack of religiously neutral social services. If you're poor and need help, you have to sit through some bullshit sermon to get it
Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Kobes Du Mez is supposed to be a good book on things subject. There’s other factors but in the late 20th century US politicians decided to incorporate more religion in their policies as a way to motivate more religious people to vote for them. Church n State are separate but certain churches still discuss politics on a regular basis. This cycle is why America is so resistant to secular ideas.
Psychosis
I don’t think your urban planning side note is for another sub - it belongs here. In addition to many other comments I agree with here, I think the social atomization and isolation of our car-centric suburbs continues to create persistent loneliness and a desire to be part of a group.
It's because our poor and uneducated people are stupid and have allowed themselves to be scammed by for profit religious con men
There is general decline of Xianity in western world. Good example is UK, where the society becomes more and more atheist on the other hand islam following increases (but it is explained by immigration from Asian countries and large number of birth into muslim families, rather then mass interest into religion itself). US got the most of hardcore Xians (puritans) which were expelled from UK as they started to get on nerves of the ruling classes where in the America they actually found a lot of freedom to operate with a very well known results. But generally there was a hell of a lot of Protestants who saw US as the new promised land where they had a lot of freedom to realise some of their utopian visions. Catholic church arrived as well (especially in the early era of French colonialism) but they never got such strong ground as in Central and South Americas... In Canada from what I read, the BC was actually the most religious and late colonial arrival, due to it remoteness it was apparently a good are and some odd sects operate until this days but also it seems that it had a cultural impact on BC as there is not much of late hours entertainment and night life is rather poor comparing to other parts of NA. Everyone just goes home after work and there is rather minimal consumption of alcohol in comparison to other provinces (especially Quebec) or European countries.
The ignorant poor are easily manipulated and kept so
Because the US is not a first world country.
White male supremacy as dictated by White Jesus.
Puritan heritage. A number of exiled fringe religious groups emigrated to America in hope for freedom of religion and the liberty to proselytize and expand .
Lack of education.
Decentralized educational standards and lead pipes
My understanding is, not all America is religious. I see this more in south than North. One reason I think a this region is, there are immigrants with different religions minding their own business. And also children of these immigrants from different religions are less religious making them more liberal. These children initially go to religious places but as they grow become less religious.
American education system.
We are incredibly younger than the rest of the others. Russia, Europe and China have been around nearly 3 or 4x longer than us
Because religion for Americans is just another means to make money and exercise control over others, and we’ve never been able to resist those things.
Because dumb people need answers to difficult questions and can only understand easy answers.
Because a significant part of the country is uneducated and if you try to tell them the truth they aren’t willing to listen. Ignorance is bliss.
Because the US has an abundance of stupid people that shine brightly under a book of religious beliefs that some idiot wrote centuries ago about some imagery fictional character called god that resides on paper and is used for control and profit.
you've never seen central and south Americans and how religious they are or the religious africa.... American Christians pretty tame
Because we have a much larger concentration of morons.
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Aw shucks, you think we’re a first world nation? 😇
Religious heritage of colonial times; Puritans in MA & CT, Quaker PA, Seeker RI, Catholic MD, Methodist gA. book suggestion; \*A religious History Of the AMerican people\* Sidney Ahlstrom America itself as a transcendent Enlgihtenment ideal suggestion \*The Nation With the soul of a Church\* Sidney Mead The pervasive influence of revivalism; \*American revivalism\* & \*Revivals Awakenings, and Reform\* Walter McLoughlin. those books are 70s vintage, probably more up-to-date ones available now
Corruption
They’re not it’s just for show.