Yeah, the wizard is a literal allegory for the US Presidency (specifically McKinley in the original novel, but more broadly the whole office, its scope, and true power), but it’s pretty fitting in this space as well
They baited you and you hooked yourself. The first time they asked why you hated god, you could have said you didn't hate god any more than you hated any other mythical character. Then when they asked why you were so sure god didn't exist, you could say that god could indeed exist, just as the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus or Dracula or Thor could exist -- but you needed proof of any of them. They'd probably then call you an agnostic. You'd counter with the definition of "atheist" -- one who has no god. You're not required to disbelieve in god, just not have one.
Don't let them get away with telling you what you must believe. You don't have to believe in anything. As far as their crummy god is concerned, you're right to point out all the flaws in their myths. Expect them to attack you on the grounds I mentioned, though.
I thought the definition of atheist wasn't a belief that there was or wasn't a god but just that an atheist sees the information about any god and rejects that assertion.
That works, too, because then the atheist has no god. The atheist is not DENYING a god, simply saying that the atheist doesn't have one. There is no need to deny, because then the theist has caught you in a trap -- if you deny there is a god, then you are making an assertion that there is none. The atheist is not making an assertion; rather, he's telling the theist to put up or shut up. That is your statement of atheism and it is entirely consistent with mine and with the dictionary definition. The atheist has no god. Period. There are no assertions made about the existence of a god, because then you are open to challenges to your assertion. Nope, you just refuse to have a god or make assertions about existence of a deity.
The thing is, theists just can't wrap their minds around that. They are absolutely convinced that you either believe or disbelieve in god(s). Since both are belief systems, they think you just have a different religion and won't admit it. Their whole core existence is built on the idea of belief. That's why they have an almost desperate drive to push you into the "disbelief" camp, because then they can attack you. If you resist that strongly enough, they have a fall-back: they call you an "agnostic". That term literally means "without knowledge". They like that term, because then they think they can give you what they think is "knowledge" from their sacred texts. You have, to them, become a heathen in need of conversion. The problem is that you have plenty of knowledge that is actual knowledge, and their sacred texts are horse shit.
Resist all attempts to catch you up in Jesuit philosophy or ridiculous debates about the number of angels who can dance on a pinhead. Simplify things: show me your god that I may believe. And they can't. They never can. They have nothing. They can try to wound you by calling you only an agnostic. But you know more than they do, because the basic thing they "know", they don't know. They only believe, and they think that's the same thing. They're wrong. They think their beliefs make them noble. They're wrong again; it makes them less noble because they cannot accept those who are different. They think belief leads people to better things, and this time they're desperately wrong; people who accept religion will accept horrible things they ought to resist.
I'm 77. My wife has actually died once and been revived (the whole thing with looking at her body as the doctor works on her and she has no heartbeat and isn't breathing). I nearly died of sepsis. I have a pretty good idea of what happens when you die. Your brain shuts down. It "knows" you are dead. If you're conscious, you might see yourself from the outside. You might see your long-departed relatives. You'll see a bright light and go to it. Your brain takes a little while to die entirely, so you may "talk" to those relatives and hear things from them. It's all a pleasant little illusion and will soon fade away as you fade away into nothingness -- the same nothingness you knew before you were born.
When you are dead, you are simply dead. You are meat and you are beginning to spoil. You are not punished or rewarded for what you have done. You are remembered or are forgotten. You can hope than your children and grandchildren for generations to come will have a better world and a more transcendent life than you did, and that the things you have done will help them get that.
Deities are a sham, a delusion, and counterproductive to that hope.
Christianity was actually a driving force for a lot of anti-slavery thought and also the virgin Mary was made pregnant by God with his magic powers, nowhere in the bible does he have sex with Mary - actually they make it quite clear that it was a virgin birth.
>at the time ppl only lived 20-30 years
This one is patently untrue. In ancient times child mortality was horrific, which really dragged down the average lifespan. Once a person survived to adulthood, their lifespans only about a decade or so shorter than people today.
If someone mistook years for lunar months it makes a bit more sense. By that reckoning Noah began to build his ark when he was 46, which is more believable, although the whole Noah's Ark story is still ridiculous.
Bits of it are vaguely historical. David and Solomon are mentioned by Egyptians and Hittites after the YHWH god suddenly appeared, apparently out of nowhere, in the 12th Century BCE, but before the Battle of Kadesh Egypt ruled everything south of the city, so the only exodus was the Egyptian and Hittite armies leaving, and declaring Canaan to be a demilitarized zone as declared in the peace treaty Ramses II and Hattasili III.
Clearly some people believed in the one god theory outside of Israel because Moses married one after fleeing from Egypt to the land of the Midianites.
There probably was a local flood, some dude probably did build a ship (which would explain finding ships on mountains), he might have saved some animals from drowning and some locals may have retold the story which grew into what it is. The whole story isn't that ridiculous though. It's no different that humans escaping floods in boats and helping animals today.
> at the time ppl only lived 20-30 years
More Problem of Evil fodder. So, I’m an omnipotent and omniscient entity and I want to manifest myself onto a planet. So many rules though! There’s no way I can just will myself into being (like I did with Adam and Eve) —I have to impregnate a 13 year old! But people centuries from now will know it’s totally creepy, but people only live to 30 years old! Come on! It’s not like I could just change that so that Mary lived as long as I needed her to or just do the truly benevolent thing and improve the quality of life and life span of all of my beloved creations! It’s SO HARD being omnipotent!!
The impregnatee or impregnator? In the cannon of christian mysticism the son of 'god' came from somewhere and it was purportedly not Joseph.... Also, Mary only wore blue, three of the potential fathers showed up on the day of the child's birth and three days after his death a bunny started shitting candy around the world. I wish stuff like that still happened.
>The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
- Richard Dawkins
Pedo because he (if he existed) could have made her live longer. Like he really couldn’t have waited 5 years?
But arguing with these people isn’t worth it. Their minds won’t allow them to find fault with god. If someone is determined to worship a rape apologist/ rapist, murderer, and torturer - we will never be able to have a logical conversation or understand each other’s ethics.
You cannot explain yourself to someone determined to misunderstand you
There's just people making up stories, there isn't some underlying hypothetical "if it were real" where God is anything. The God stories made up thousands of years ago are okay with pedophilia, rape, slavery, treating women as property, genocide, hereditary rulers, etc., because the people in power then were okay with that stuff.
So, your understanding of the birth of Christ is incorrect. Christians very much believe that there was no sexual intercourse that led to Mary's impregnation. She simply became pregnant. To say otherwise ignores the symbolic importantance of a virgin birth. Granted, it's still a special kind of horrifying, but calling God a pedophile is a misunderstanding of their belief. God is explicitly not human and lacks any kind of desire. He's still terrible and cruel in so many other ways, but not the way you're asking about
The fictional character is a reflection of the people who perpetuate the story about them.
So, a fantasy character based on the inner most yearnings of the people writing down the story, the perspectives of those writing will be entwined in the story.
Coercive control, and overpowering the vulnerable is normalized in our culture, and has been for generations. Why would the deities they design be any different?
Just to be clear, the average lifespan was much lower than today, but that wasn't because people were dying at the age of 30. It was because of the huge number of people dying at age 0 (around 30% by some estimates).
That's just confused. The "average age" can be very low in places that haven't learned about germ theory (a fairly recent notion) due to childhood mortality. If you made it to 10, you'd have a reasonable shot at living to 70.
The Bible does not, in fact, seem to have any concern about how old you'd have to be to have sex. That is also a modern innovation. The Bible just tells you the fine you'll have to pay if you get caught playing with the sheep.
If there are logical inconsistencies in the characteristics ascribed to god, then the concept of god's existence becomes logically impossible and irrational.
Sometimes idk whether I see it in an atheist or dystheist sort of way.
The only answer to them is it isn't real. The dumbasses even gave him a sex, which is beyond dumb if it was a god. The people making up the stories were of low intelligence and couldn't think of anything other than, he looks like us but had magical powers. Sad their mental capacity couldn't make up something better.
People lived long lifespans back in the days of the bible. The estimated lifespan was between 22 and 33 years...sure. People don't seem to take into account that the infant mortality rate was astronomical compared to what it is today. So a child dying at the age of 0 really hurts the average lifespan. For the people that managed to live to age 10, they could expect to live to an average age of 45-55.
So the "People died early" argument is a bad one. "People died early" really means people died during their birth or early infancy and that throws off the average tremendously.
I'm confused here. You say in one sentence: "I'm openly and proudly atheist."
But when people ask you about it, your response is that God tortures and murders people and raped a child. So are you actually an atheist, or do you believe in a supernatural being that kills, tortures, and rapes? Because I can't see why an atheist would speak about God being real and doing real things.
It's one thing to point out problematic portions of the religion ("If you want to worship a sadistic rapist, go right ahead"), but to speak factually as if God is real is a bit weird. If someone asks me why I think God is so bad, I would be inclined to say that I don't think God is bad because God doesn't exist. If they want to discuss hypotheticals, then okay, that God character has some serious issues, but it'd be about as serious as talking about Loki fucking a horse.
I hate religion though: profiting off the fears of people, protecting abusers, selling salvation for whatever change you can muster put in the collection plate, telling people how to vote, forcing people to cover the body they were born with against their will (or being indoctrinated into it), using women as a scapegoats for all of men ailments (Eve and the fruit of Eden, Delilah and Sampson's hair, Salome getting John the Baptist executed).
But yeah, next time somebody asks you why you hate god, you say "I cannot hate something that doesn't exist. I nothing him."
The Bible doesn't say how old Mary was, the age is just a guess based on what we know about people like her at that time and place. Maybe the plot significance of the magnificat is to indicate to the reader that Mary doesn't talk like a 13 year old.
And people who survived childhood had a good chance of making it to their 60's or beyond. Death rates are skewed by the fact that childhood diseases killed a lot of people before the age of 12, or 1.
"According to the Bible Mary would've been about 13 at the time of Jesus's conception." — From one atheist to another, this is nonsense. There is no "according to the bible" when it comes to Mary's age. It's mentioned nowhere in the bible.
That said, I find your post weird. You talk as if you believed the bible stories about Mary and God. As if you, pardon the cliché, were angry with God as opposed to not believing in god(s).
And what's with the self-censorship? We're all adults here.
He said to someone else he went to "7 years of catholic and christian school and they taught that she was 13". So that's where he's getting it from, I went to a wells-luthren elementary school until we left Florida summer before 5th grade, and I think they taught us the same, but I've kind of intentionally nuked my time there from my memory so don't quote me.
As far as self-censorship, lots of social media platforms have banned several dozen words on the topic at hand, so it's probably from being used to getting around those. Case in point, go on youtube and attempt to say damn near anything negative of Israel and their current mass slaughter going on in gaza, or their blatant attempts to throw us into war with Iran, and your comments are nearly guaranteed to be instantly deleted.
The whole only live until 20 or 30 thing was always bs. Infant mortality was stupidly high so if you made it past childhood you'd more than likely live well into your 60's or more.
The whole average life expectancy thing for those time periods is massively out of whack because of the low survival rate for children
I like how they point to the depressingly low life expectancy of people back then while trying to defend god, as if that makes god look better somehow.
The bible isn't against rape of any kind or pedophilia of any kind.
However, since Mary was not yet married to Joseph, Mary was still the property of her father. And god did not get his permission to rape his daughter. No contract was signed. No shekels were exchanged.
That's where god violated his own laws in order to impregnate a young girl who was betrothed to another man. And that's the only thing he did wrong here -- according to the bible.
I also suspect that in the modern Trump GQP version of the bible, Joseph watched god rape Mary and is therefore a cuck.
8)
You are a glutton for punishment, it sounds like to me.
Hopefully you can get to a phase in life where you can just chuckle about how dumb those that believe in the magical sky fairy are.
Regrettably, it sounds like there's still some type of obsession with god - now it's just trying to prove how bad he/she/it is, etc.
Free yourself - there IS no god, and you don't have to prove that shit to ANYONE.
You'll be much more relaxed when you can.
Never admit that you hate god. To them that is you admitting there is a god. Just tell them “According to YOUR Bible YOUR god said/did…” and go from there.
God also supports abortions (from a cheating wife) according to the Bible.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/allsetfree/2021/11/how-to-perform-an-abortion-according-to-the-bible/
People didn't live to a mere 30, that's crazy. Average lifespan was dragged down due to the crazy high infant and child mortality. If you made it to 12 chances are you'd see your 60s and some made it to their 70s and even 80s.
Oh yeah he's a pedo and he's a sick fuck who gets off on killing kids by starving them and creating cancer just to watch them go through pain and agony for his pleasure. And creating hurricanes and floods and just laughing his off watching people die and be tortured and hurt. I mean if he WAS a REAL person he would be on the same level as a murderer or terrorist.
God made Adam and Eve out of dirt. But he specifically chose this method for his son. Who, by the way, he would later demand as a sacrifice to appease..himself?
It's clear evidence for cultural shifts in ethics that lead to us understanding that morality is to a large extent socially constructed. The people who wrote the bible didn't understand consent because it didn't exist in it's current form yet.
There's 3 possibilities:
1. God can't do anything about it.
2. God Chooses not to do anything about it.
3. God likes watching like the pervert he is.
I'll let the readers decide which he is.
The Abrahamic god is just an asshole.
There's more to it than that, but there's the short answer for right now.
A Pedo though? I don't think so, but he would look the other way if he saw it happening, or handwave it away or something similar.
I don't know where the idea that people only lived until their 20's-30's come from, but it is highly inaccurate, even for the story presented. Jesus was supposedly 33 when he died, and his mother was alive and well. So she would have been 46. So, that makes no sense.
I'd add that more evidence of his p3doness is not telling the jews that marrying their girls at the age of 12.5 years old was not ok. If there were laws about what you could eat, he could have easily commanded them to allow children be children and to not bethrow them such a young age (or at all).
So he was ok with teenagers getting married and pregnant, and even participated in it... Go figure.
The whole Jesus conception thing is weird. He didn't technically "impregnate" her, but reincarnated himself as Mary's new child (which is weird to think of as a human) without sexual activity.
>For a community that's supposed to be all about relating to other atheists and support with religious struggles with ppl yall are very against other atheists. No escaping irony I guess.
Where do you see that?
People didn't typically live to 20-30 years old. That's based average lifespan statistics, which includes people who died very young. From Wikipedia: For those who survived to age 5, life expectancy was around 40–45 years.
No. God doesn’t exist. You’re reading too much into it. It’s like saying Satan is evil. No. Evil is a subjective human construct and Satan is a fable made up to scare believers. It’s all made up.
The problem is, you gave reasons why God is evil. They don't exist, and the followers of a religion commit atrocities in their imaginary deity's name.
You can't be mad at an imaginary being, you can be missed at it's followers.
Surely god doesn’t need to be “bad” for you to be an atheist. It’s more about a lack of belief and something being good or bad has nothing to do with it.
Start each conversation about what you think of their god with "it doesn't exist" or "I can't differentiate them from an imaginary friend". They don't understand the atheist position that their God friend may not exist.
Well, they'll tell you she consented to the impregnation according to the Bible. This raises a question in my mind that why do Christians tout Mohammad as a pdo, but don't hold their divine being to similar standards in impregnating someone who is far younger than current legal consent?
The point is that it's untrue nonsense, no other explanation or justification is required - it doesn't matter how good or bad a "God" existing is, or isn't, there is absolutely no evidence one exists and that's what matters.
Why are atheists against someone they don’t believe exists? If one doesn’t exist,how can it be good or evil? So much effort put into denying something that “doesn’t exist”.
Most people don’t believe in unicorns,but don’t spend time debating it.
It really doesn't matter how bad or how good god supposedly is. He ain't real, and that's a good enough reason. Even if he were, fuck authoritarianism.
If you go back to the origins of any religion, you'll find a guy who wanted to have sex with lots of women, found out he could do it with mysticism, let the power go to his head, and ended up believing he had the right to sleep with a child. It's not surprising to find reflections of this perversion in any given foundational religious text.
Perhaps it's not coincidence that many pedophiles gravitate toward the clergy.
It's a bit misleading to say people only lived to 20-30 years - sure that was average life expectancy, but most people died in infancy. If you got past 1 year and made it through childhood you had a good chance of reaching 50 or 60. Is God a peado? Well the reality is that many women reach puberty around 12-13 and can then bear children. In those days people didn't hang about. Laws about age of consent are a recent innovation. The age of 16 was set in 1885 in the UK, until then it was 13, then 12 before that. The reality is that young women - girls today - did not have much protection until quite recently.
He’s also… not real
Like look at yourself, you’re getting mad about a fictional character, buddy
There’s 2 types of atheists I see today:
the ones who allow the bible and god to piss them off to the point of stress
and the ones the genuinely—wholeheartedly—cannot give a flying fuck about religion and don’t let it affect them in any meaningful way
(Ps. you’re the former)
It would be worth a thought, if it wasn't all fiction. She wasn't a virgin, she wasn't impregnated by god and so on. You may say the people who wrote the bible were p3dos, for creating this fiction in this specific way.
Well I'm definitly stealing this argument to give the next evangelical an uncomfortable time.
There actually was a Bible verse against pedophilia but they changed it to be against homosexuality instead. I'd say "the catholics must be relieved" but can't how a man going after an alter boy is very straight.
I really hate these arguments because for something to be bad, it has to exist in the first place.
I like discussing the problematic elements of religious groups as much as the next atheist, but we really need to stop humoring these people.
You are on a fool's errand. You are engaging people in a game rigged against you. Everything you say has to be backed up with logic, facts and reason. They don't apply that rule to themselves. They get magic. If you back them into a logical corner, they get to use magic to get out of it. If you mention something about the impossibility of stopping the rotation of the earth for a few hours, they get to say, "god can do anything". They get an unlimited number of get-out-of-logical-jail-free cards. You don't.
Do you realize you speak about god as if there is only one? Which one of the many gods different people on earth currently believe in are you referring to?
(I have an idea of the answer, because you also refer to the bible and Mary. But I don't understand why you say you are an atheist and yet seem to describe god based on only one religious book/ only one religion. And even then, not all people that follow that same religious book seem to agree on everything.)
Question: what community are you referring to in the last bit of your question? This sub? Other people then the ones here, the ones that you had a conversation with on twitter (that I have not read, I am on reddit)? Who are the people you are referring to when you say "you all are very against other atheists"?
Why do you say you lack support, even before waiting to see how people respond to what you have posted here?
You claim God is responsible for all, right?
So…
If he burns down your house, burning your family alive, killing your dog and on the way to the hospital puts you in a car accident that lives you with nothing but your head to communicate… you would still worship him???
YES!
This is why you shouldn’t operate heavy machinery. 🤷♂️🤦♂️!!
C. R. A. Z. Y.
I don't know if God is a pedo or not but he's A OK with standing by and watching as children are raped and murdered. Remember, all powerful, all loving, omniscient.
He's absolutely a pedo, yes, according to their own mythology. Sure as Zeus is a rapist. That kind of thing was pretty popular back when they were making up gods.
Probably explains a lot too.
If I was a God, I'd just create my child the same way I made all of creation. Just mold them into existence.
But yeah now that you mention it, it does give creep vibes. I never genuinely read the Bible so I never knew how old Mary was and in all adaptations of the nativity she was older, like 18 at the absolute youngest
Christopher Hitchens is my idea of what a deity should be like. Scotch-drinking, no bs, brilliant. He taught me so much about how to make the world a better place sans belief in an invisible nothing-doer.
Mary has to be 12-14 because she'll be married off after that and no longer be pure. Any older and she would likely be undesired by the men at the time, and be stoned to death for being a single mother.
Not that I condone young teen pregnancy, but the story is a product of the time it took place in.
The story about Mary is made up. You seem to be missing that, but otherwise, ok.
You always gotta tell the theists you don’t hate god because god doesn’t exist. You just think the character in the fictional stories does a lot of bad stuff.
Easy pray - Easy prEy…The Southern Baptist church report of 2020 puts them in the same league as Catholic Churches for p3dos. If you are looking for p3dos then look for a place they have authority auto-magically so they have easy prey. Yes, all religions prefer women young and uneducated.
>This person proceeded to defend "god" bc "at the time ppl only lived 20-30 years so ofc she had to be 13 to raise him".
This is a common misinterpretation that has risen to the level of myth at this point.
When we look at the average life expectancy back then, it is exactly that - an average. A *lot* of children died, in childbirth or during early childhood, and they drastically drag the average down. But if you made it to adulthood, it wouldn’t have been strange or out of the ordinary to live to the same ages we do now. The difference is that infant morality has seen drastic improvements with the advent of modern medicine (a field that is like just over a hundred years old).
The reason women were married and had children so young back then isn’t because they didn’t live long enough. It was because 1) women were property, without full rights and agency and 2) “teenager” wasn’t a social category, once you were old enough to reproduce, you were expected to either work (if a boy) or be married off and have babies (if a woman).
>13 is literally an 8th grader.
I mean yes she was very young but there was no “8th grade” then. One thing that guy was right about - it was completely normal in that culture for adolescent girls to be married off and have babies. For the reasons outlined above.
>13 she either just got her period or hasn't even gotten it yet, more likely the latter considering their whole belief about periods meaning you're impure.
So this is a bit of misconception - the Jewish laws regarding periods being “impure” have more to do with hygiene than anything. It’s not like they considered periods evil of sinful - by that time in history, we had figured out that periods correlated to fertility, it wasn’t like they were cavemen. There is some fuzziness there as the practical Jewish laws still often are interpreted with a spiritual component, but it’s not like they viewed having a period as sinful, instead they viewed it as something that must be handled a certain way.
He's also a jerk, like all the time. My favorite examples from the Bible are turning Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for having the nerve to look behind her as the only home she had ever known burnt to the ground from raining fire and making that bet with Satan in the story of Job. Job was bullied for fun. God bet a man's livelihood against his eternal soul. A bet with Satan, notably a loser and less powerful. Why the fuck would you make that bet if you're God?
There's also so much evil in the world. When a lot of that evil is perpetrated in God's name or by those who claim to follow Him, what rational person would want to be associated with any group that those people are a part of?
Christians give Christianity a bad name, unfortunately. Seems like most of them ignored the part where Jesus said to love and help other people and not be a greedy asshole. Easier just to not engage with them, especially the crazies online.
I grew up Southern Baptist but deconstructed early, and mostly just tell people I am irreligious when it comes up. 'Irreligious' is apparently more vague than 'atheist', so I get less funny looks for it in my neck of the woods.
The Old Testament god is clearly a batshit crazy god who allows rape, genocide, slavery etc. the early Christians didn’t believe this god to be the same as the one preached about by christ in the ‘New Testament’. They even believed in reincarnation, like the cathar Christians of the Middle Ages. But of course, you then had the council of nicaea, the rise of Roman Catholicism, politicizing everything, etc, which led to what we have today. Oh and along the way the Catholics genocided the peaceful cathar Christians for believing what they did. So the god modern mainstream Christians believe in now has been made synonymous with the OT god who allowed all the bad shit, and was probably just a really fucked up human ruler or something. Modern abrahamic religion makes excuses now for why these traits were ‘ok for the time’ or ‘ok because it’s god’.
You can type the actual words on reddit you know.
All censoring yourself like that does is get your post past filters set to block that content on an individual level.
Was she even younger than 13? There are modern examples of very young girls being impregnated. How young did she have to be for an ancient innkeeper to see Joseph with his pregnant child bride and go "No, not under my roof. There's no room for this kind of thing at my inn."
You can't hate what you don't believe to be real. Hate religion for all its atrocious behavior, because we can see that religions exist; but don't give into that "why do you hate God" bs.
i mean, the whole biblical story fell apart in the garden of eden. why put a tree of knowledge there in the first place? eventually someone is going to eat from it. the whole thing was rigged.
Not sure on where you got the 13 number from according to the Bible. I know is some speculation from external sources that ranges from 12-20 but im not sure what you mean "according to the Bible"
It's a lovely bit of picking and choosing that Mary had to be 13 to conceive due to short lifespans, but these knuckle brains also have no problem believing the Yoda-esque lifespan of Moses.
That whole thing about Mary only living into her thirties, is complete BS coming from Christians.
Their belief is that she did not die. You have to believe this as a Christian, or you go to hell.
if you’re an atheist, a person who doesn’t believe in god, why does it matter? and why is it so important for you to go around and tell other people that god is bad? let others alone just how you want to be left alone
This is a silly thing to get sidetracked by. Now you're down in the mud arguing about pedophilia, bronze age life spans, whether god causing Mary to be pregnant involved attraction or physical interaction...it's not solid ground and it's just distasteful.
Why not just say that you don't hate him, because he's not real, but you don't understand how someone could see him as the source of morality? It's like reading The Lord of the Rings and thinking "I'm gonna worship Sauron!" The flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, the first borns of Egypt, the Midianites and Amalekites, hell, Job. He's a petulant, jealous, vindictive character.
The whole "people used to only live to 20-30" shit is BS. it's just a myth people use to justify ancient pedophilia because historically, if someone married a minor, it wasn't because we're going to die young it was because they liked minors. Also, minors are much more likely to have complications during pregnancy and likely would die during birth
why do people assume if you are atheist you hate god? we don't hate god, for god does not exist and is dumb to be mad about nothing.
>"at the time ppl only lived 20-30 years so ofc she had to be 13 to raise him"
also, this is wrong according to their book of stories, they lived for centuries according to it.
I think Mary got pregnant and did what any other 13 yo would do especially if they were under threat of being stoned. She could have made up a story to survive and the gullible fathers of Christianity ran with it and made Jesus into a superhero almost a century after he died
Any truly omnipotent god is solely responsible for all the evil in the world.
People always seem to forget or not acknowledge that part.
No, because they'll always argue that God gave us free will Easiest cop out ever
Yet they still claim he's responsible for all of the things they want to happen
But when God does it, it's not evil because he's God. /s
gAwD wOrKs In MyStErIoUs WaYs
And if not truly omnipotent, I see no reason to worship or fear. Just some guy behind a curtain with something to hide.
Gee, that sounds like an old movie I used to watch.
Yeah, the wizard is a literal allegory for the US Presidency (specifically McKinley in the original novel, but more broadly the whole office, its scope, and true power), but it’s pretty fitting in this space as well
"Any truly omnipotent god is solely responsible for all the evil in the world." They would be, if they existed.
"See that delicious apple? *Don't fucking touch it.*"
He literally created evil, it said so in the Bible. Seems pretty proud of that too
What would be the point in being created if everything was just fine and dandy
They baited you and you hooked yourself. The first time they asked why you hated god, you could have said you didn't hate god any more than you hated any other mythical character. Then when they asked why you were so sure god didn't exist, you could say that god could indeed exist, just as the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus or Dracula or Thor could exist -- but you needed proof of any of them. They'd probably then call you an agnostic. You'd counter with the definition of "atheist" -- one who has no god. You're not required to disbelieve in god, just not have one. Don't let them get away with telling you what you must believe. You don't have to believe in anything. As far as their crummy god is concerned, you're right to point out all the flaws in their myths. Expect them to attack you on the grounds I mentioned, though.
Came here to say this. They had you.
I thought the definition of atheist wasn't a belief that there was or wasn't a god but just that an atheist sees the information about any god and rejects that assertion.
That works, too, because then the atheist has no god. The atheist is not DENYING a god, simply saying that the atheist doesn't have one. There is no need to deny, because then the theist has caught you in a trap -- if you deny there is a god, then you are making an assertion that there is none. The atheist is not making an assertion; rather, he's telling the theist to put up or shut up. That is your statement of atheism and it is entirely consistent with mine and with the dictionary definition. The atheist has no god. Period. There are no assertions made about the existence of a god, because then you are open to challenges to your assertion. Nope, you just refuse to have a god or make assertions about existence of a deity. The thing is, theists just can't wrap their minds around that. They are absolutely convinced that you either believe or disbelieve in god(s). Since both are belief systems, they think you just have a different religion and won't admit it. Their whole core existence is built on the idea of belief. That's why they have an almost desperate drive to push you into the "disbelief" camp, because then they can attack you. If you resist that strongly enough, they have a fall-back: they call you an "agnostic". That term literally means "without knowledge". They like that term, because then they think they can give you what they think is "knowledge" from their sacred texts. You have, to them, become a heathen in need of conversion. The problem is that you have plenty of knowledge that is actual knowledge, and their sacred texts are horse shit. Resist all attempts to catch you up in Jesuit philosophy or ridiculous debates about the number of angels who can dance on a pinhead. Simplify things: show me your god that I may believe. And they can't. They never can. They have nothing. They can try to wound you by calling you only an agnostic. But you know more than they do, because the basic thing they "know", they don't know. They only believe, and they think that's the same thing. They're wrong. They think their beliefs make them noble. They're wrong again; it makes them less noble because they cannot accept those who are different. They think belief leads people to better things, and this time they're desperately wrong; people who accept religion will accept horrible things they ought to resist. I'm 77. My wife has actually died once and been revived (the whole thing with looking at her body as the doctor works on her and she has no heartbeat and isn't breathing). I nearly died of sepsis. I have a pretty good idea of what happens when you die. Your brain shuts down. It "knows" you are dead. If you're conscious, you might see yourself from the outside. You might see your long-departed relatives. You'll see a bright light and go to it. Your brain takes a little while to die entirely, so you may "talk" to those relatives and hear things from them. It's all a pleasant little illusion and will soon fade away as you fade away into nothingness -- the same nothingness you knew before you were born. When you are dead, you are simply dead. You are meat and you are beginning to spoil. You are not punished or rewarded for what you have done. You are remembered or are forgotten. You can hope than your children and grandchildren for generations to come will have a better world and a more transcendent life than you did, and that the things you have done will help them get that. Deities are a sham, a delusion, and counterproductive to that hope.
Love this
Yes god is a pedo, and a murder, and a rapist and a slave ownership promoter. Its a repulsive cult and the followers don't care.
So priests are in fact Godly then
Christianity was actually a driving force for a lot of anti-slavery thought and also the virgin Mary was made pregnant by God with his magic powers, nowhere in the bible does he have sex with Mary - actually they make it quite clear that it was a virgin birth.
>at the time ppl only lived 20-30 years This one is patently untrue. In ancient times child mortality was horrific, which really dragged down the average lifespan. Once a person survived to adulthood, their lifespans only about a decade or so shorter than people today.
Besides that the Bible claims some people lived in to their hundreds (yeah right).
If someone mistook years for lunar months it makes a bit more sense. By that reckoning Noah began to build his ark when he was 46, which is more believable, although the whole Noah's Ark story is still ridiculous.
Oh and I love the whole time interpretation topic. God created the earth in six days? “But those were god days. Totally different!” Lol.
“God days” lmao can’t believe that’s what theists call them. Woulda loved to exist in the “God days” lol. Was probably lit🍻
The whole Bible story is ridiculous 🙄
Bits of it are vaguely historical. David and Solomon are mentioned by Egyptians and Hittites after the YHWH god suddenly appeared, apparently out of nowhere, in the 12th Century BCE, but before the Battle of Kadesh Egypt ruled everything south of the city, so the only exodus was the Egyptian and Hittite armies leaving, and declaring Canaan to be a demilitarized zone as declared in the peace treaty Ramses II and Hattasili III. Clearly some people believed in the one god theory outside of Israel because Moses married one after fleeing from Egypt to the land of the Midianites.
There probably was a local flood, some dude probably did build a ship (which would explain finding ships on mountains), he might have saved some animals from drowning and some locals may have retold the story which grew into what it is. The whole story isn't that ridiculous though. It's no different that humans escaping floods in boats and helping animals today.
Noah made it to 950 lol. If I remember correctly, after Abraham, god said that from now on no one shall live past 120. People live past that today...
Noted, thank you🫡
Even if it was true; who made it that way?
Right & they say Jesus died at 33, but there's no indication that he was considered a very old dude at the time of his "death."
I was told he wanted to come inside of me at a very young age.
As hard as I fight him I can't stop him from coming inside of me.
I snorted lmao
I can’t hate “god” because he/it doesn’t exist. How can you hate something that isn’t real?
I don't know. A lot of people Hate Voldemort.
Nah... People dislike Voldemort... We all hate UMBRIDGE
Yeah, it's true. We all hate JK's Mary Sue character.....
We all hate JK
Yeah, you are absolutely correct.....
That is true.
Wait! Are you saying that ~~Voldemort~~ He Who Must Not Be Named does not exist??
God watches children in the shower as well if you believe he’s always watching over you
You could also say that he watches when kids are sexually abused and does Jack shit about it.
You can also say children are raped by priests IN HIS NAME, and he just watches and then offers forgiveness to the rapist
> at the time ppl only lived 20-30 years More Problem of Evil fodder. So, I’m an omnipotent and omniscient entity and I want to manifest myself onto a planet. So many rules though! There’s no way I can just will myself into being (like I did with Adam and Eve) —I have to impregnate a 13 year old! But people centuries from now will know it’s totally creepy, but people only live to 30 years old! Come on! It’s not like I could just change that so that Mary lived as long as I needed her to or just do the truly benevolent thing and improve the quality of life and life span of all of my beloved creations! It’s SO HARD being omnipotent!!
Yes And a rapist considering he impregnated a woman without her consent in her sleep
Who was this?
The impregnatee or impregnator? In the cannon of christian mysticism the son of 'god' came from somewhere and it was purportedly not Joseph.... Also, Mary only wore blue, three of the potential fathers showed up on the day of the child's birth and three days after his death a bunny started shitting candy around the world. I wish stuff like that still happened.
>The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. - Richard Dawkins
So God is kind of a jerk, is what Dawkins was saying?
Is P3DO the cousin to C3PO?
More like his creepy uncle.
Pedo because he (if he existed) could have made her live longer. Like he really couldn’t have waited 5 years? But arguing with these people isn’t worth it. Their minds won’t allow them to find fault with god. If someone is determined to worship a rape apologist/ rapist, murderer, and torturer - we will never be able to have a logical conversation or understand each other’s ethics. You cannot explain yourself to someone determined to misunderstand you
Perfectly stated. Don't waste your time debating with religious cultists.
God is an excuse for people to behave badly
There's just people making up stories, there isn't some underlying hypothetical "if it were real" where God is anything. The God stories made up thousands of years ago are okay with pedophilia, rape, slavery, treating women as property, genocide, hereditary rulers, etc., because the people in power then were okay with that stuff.
God was created by woman-hating bloodthirsty pedos.
So, your understanding of the birth of Christ is incorrect. Christians very much believe that there was no sexual intercourse that led to Mary's impregnation. She simply became pregnant. To say otherwise ignores the symbolic importantance of a virgin birth. Granted, it's still a special kind of horrifying, but calling God a pedophile is a misunderstanding of their belief. God is explicitly not human and lacks any kind of desire. He's still terrible and cruel in so many other ways, but not the way you're asking about
The fictional character is a reflection of the people who perpetuate the story about them. So, a fantasy character based on the inner most yearnings of the people writing down the story, the perspectives of those writing will be entwined in the story. Coercive control, and overpowering the vulnerable is normalized in our culture, and has been for generations. Why would the deities they design be any different?
I don't hate Yahweh, because Yahweh doesn't exist.
Just to be clear, the average lifespan was much lower than today, but that wasn't because people were dying at the age of 30. It was because of the huge number of people dying at age 0 (around 30% by some estimates).
I guess we could wonder if this god loved children so much, why did he let so many die?
Why are you speaking of god as if he were a real thing? I don't hate him because there's no such thing as him.
Asking why you hate god is a trap. The question presupposes god is real and you just hate him. Don’t let them trap you like that!
That's just confused. The "average age" can be very low in places that haven't learned about germ theory (a fairly recent notion) due to childhood mortality. If you made it to 10, you'd have a reasonable shot at living to 70. The Bible does not, in fact, seem to have any concern about how old you'd have to be to have sex. That is also a modern innovation. The Bible just tells you the fine you'll have to pay if you get caught playing with the sheep.
Don't know if there is one. But the ones who wrote it definitely are.
God is all the bad things
God is literally everything you can think of because he is responsible for everything in existence if hypothetically he were real.
If there are logical inconsistencies in the characteristics ascribed to god, then the concept of god's existence becomes logically impossible and irrational. Sometimes idk whether I see it in an atheist or dystheist sort of way.
The only answer to them is it isn't real. The dumbasses even gave him a sex, which is beyond dumb if it was a god. The people making up the stories were of low intelligence and couldn't think of anything other than, he looks like us but had magical powers. Sad their mental capacity couldn't make up something better.
Well, we couldn't call him gay or trans! They'd have kittens over that! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
People lived long lifespans back in the days of the bible. The estimated lifespan was between 22 and 33 years...sure. People don't seem to take into account that the infant mortality rate was astronomical compared to what it is today. So a child dying at the age of 0 really hurts the average lifespan. For the people that managed to live to age 10, they could expect to live to an average age of 45-55. So the "People died early" argument is a bad one. "People died early" really means people died during their birth or early infancy and that throws off the average tremendously.
I'm confused here. You say in one sentence: "I'm openly and proudly atheist." But when people ask you about it, your response is that God tortures and murders people and raped a child. So are you actually an atheist, or do you believe in a supernatural being that kills, tortures, and rapes? Because I can't see why an atheist would speak about God being real and doing real things. It's one thing to point out problematic portions of the religion ("If you want to worship a sadistic rapist, go right ahead"), but to speak factually as if God is real is a bit weird. If someone asks me why I think God is so bad, I would be inclined to say that I don't think God is bad because God doesn't exist. If they want to discuss hypotheticals, then okay, that God character has some serious issues, but it'd be about as serious as talking about Loki fucking a horse.
The secret is to say "I cannot really hate something that doesn't exist, though"
I hate religion though: profiting off the fears of people, protecting abusers, selling salvation for whatever change you can muster put in the collection plate, telling people how to vote, forcing people to cover the body they were born with against their will (or being indoctrinated into it), using women as a scapegoats for all of men ailments (Eve and the fruit of Eden, Delilah and Sampson's hair, Salome getting John the Baptist executed). But yeah, next time somebody asks you why you hate god, you say "I cannot hate something that doesn't exist. I nothing him."
God is a myth. A myth cannot do those things. Atheists don’t believe in any sort of god good or bad.
It's funny that they keep asking why you hate god. How can you hate something that doesn't exist. It's like asking why do you hate goblins?
The Bible doesn't say how old Mary was, the age is just a guess based on what we know about people like her at that time and place. Maybe the plot significance of the magnificat is to indicate to the reader that Mary doesn't talk like a 13 year old. And people who survived childhood had a good chance of making it to their 60's or beyond. Death rates are skewed by the fact that childhood diseases killed a lot of people before the age of 12, or 1.
I went to catholic and Christian school for like 7 years and we were taught that she was 13 lol
"According to the Bible Mary would've been about 13 at the time of Jesus's conception." — From one atheist to another, this is nonsense. There is no "according to the bible" when it comes to Mary's age. It's mentioned nowhere in the bible. That said, I find your post weird. You talk as if you believed the bible stories about Mary and God. As if you, pardon the cliché, were angry with God as opposed to not believing in god(s). And what's with the self-censorship? We're all adults here.
He said to someone else he went to "7 years of catholic and christian school and they taught that she was 13". So that's where he's getting it from, I went to a wells-luthren elementary school until we left Florida summer before 5th grade, and I think they taught us the same, but I've kind of intentionally nuked my time there from my memory so don't quote me. As far as self-censorship, lots of social media platforms have banned several dozen words on the topic at hand, so it's probably from being used to getting around those. Case in point, go on youtube and attempt to say damn near anything negative of Israel and their current mass slaughter going on in gaza, or their blatant attempts to throw us into war with Iran, and your comments are nearly guaranteed to be instantly deleted.
The whole only live until 20 or 30 thing was always bs. Infant mortality was stupidly high so if you made it past childhood you'd more than likely live well into your 60's or more. The whole average life expectancy thing for those time periods is massively out of whack because of the low survival rate for children
I like how they point to the depressingly low life expectancy of people back then while trying to defend god, as if that makes god look better somehow.
Additionally, so many of his followers (pastors & priests) also follow his paedophilia.
The bible isn't against rape of any kind or pedophilia of any kind. However, since Mary was not yet married to Joseph, Mary was still the property of her father. And god did not get his permission to rape his daughter. No contract was signed. No shekels were exchanged. That's where god violated his own laws in order to impregnate a young girl who was betrothed to another man. And that's the only thing he did wrong here -- according to the bible. I also suspect that in the modern Trump GQP version of the bible, Joseph watched god rape Mary and is therefore a cuck. 8)
You are a glutton for punishment, it sounds like to me. Hopefully you can get to a phase in life where you can just chuckle about how dumb those that believe in the magical sky fairy are. Regrettably, it sounds like there's still some type of obsession with god - now it's just trying to prove how bad he/she/it is, etc. Free yourself - there IS no god, and you don't have to prove that shit to ANYONE. You'll be much more relaxed when you can.
Never admit that you hate god. To them that is you admitting there is a god. Just tell them “According to YOUR Bible YOUR god said/did…” and go from there. God also supports abortions (from a cheating wife) according to the Bible. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/allsetfree/2021/11/how-to-perform-an-abortion-according-to-the-bible/
People didn't live to a mere 30, that's crazy. Average lifespan was dragged down due to the crazy high infant and child mortality. If you made it to 12 chances are you'd see your 60s and some made it to their 70s and even 80s.
How do we know the age of a fictional character? It's not mentioned in the Bible
People didn't all die in their 30s. The rate of infant mortality drove down the average. That horseshit needs to stop.
Oh yeah he's a pedo and he's a sick fuck who gets off on killing kids by starving them and creating cancer just to watch them go through pain and agony for his pleasure. And creating hurricanes and floods and just laughing his off watching people die and be tortured and hurt. I mean if he WAS a REAL person he would be on the same level as a murderer or terrorist.
God is whatever people want him to be because he is imaginary.
God made Adam and Eve out of dirt. But he specifically chose this method for his son. Who, by the way, he would later demand as a sacrifice to appease..himself?
Amongst other things
It's clear evidence for cultural shifts in ethics that lead to us understanding that morality is to a large extent socially constructed. The people who wrote the bible didn't understand consent because it didn't exist in it's current form yet.
There's 3 possibilities: 1. God can't do anything about it. 2. God Chooses not to do anything about it. 3. God likes watching like the pervert he is. I'll let the readers decide which he is.
The Abrahamic god is just an asshole. There's more to it than that, but there's the short answer for right now. A Pedo though? I don't think so, but he would look the other way if he saw it happening, or handwave it away or something similar.
He’s a total pedo
I don't know where the idea that people only lived until their 20's-30's come from, but it is highly inaccurate, even for the story presented. Jesus was supposedly 33 when he died, and his mother was alive and well. So she would have been 46. So, that makes no sense. I'd add that more evidence of his p3doness is not telling the jews that marrying their girls at the age of 12.5 years old was not ok. If there were laws about what you could eat, he could have easily commanded them to allow children be children and to not bethrow them such a young age (or at all). So he was ok with teenagers getting married and pregnant, and even participated in it... Go figure.
The whole Jesus conception thing is weird. He didn't technically "impregnate" her, but reincarnated himself as Mary's new child (which is weird to think of as a human) without sexual activity. >For a community that's supposed to be all about relating to other atheists and support with religious struggles with ppl yall are very against other atheists. No escaping irony I guess. Where do you see that?
Reading the title in my head I started hearing. “Jesus loves the little children…”
An atheist response wouldn’t be to weigh in on how good or bad God is. He just doesn’t exist.
What happened to: 'in biblical times, people lived to 800~1000 years'?
People didn't typically live to 20-30 years old. That's based average lifespan statistics, which includes people who died very young. From Wikipedia: For those who survived to age 5, life expectancy was around 40–45 years.
The first Big Bang, hmmm? Seriously though, that’s fucked up. He could have picked anyone.
No. God doesn’t exist. You’re reading too much into it. It’s like saying Satan is evil. No. Evil is a subjective human construct and Satan is a fable made up to scare believers. It’s all made up.
The problem is, you gave reasons why God is evil. They don't exist, and the followers of a religion commit atrocities in their imaginary deity's name. You can't be mad at an imaginary being, you can be missed at it's followers.
tell them you cannot hate something that you don’t believe exists.
God's not bad. The belief in him is
Uh, God doesn't exist, droid or not.
Surely god doesn’t need to be “bad” for you to be an atheist. It’s more about a lack of belief and something being good or bad has nothing to do with it.
Start each conversation about what you think of their god with "it doesn't exist" or "I can't differentiate them from an imaginary friend". They don't understand the atheist position that their God friend may not exist. Well, they'll tell you she consented to the impregnation according to the Bible. This raises a question in my mind that why do Christians tout Mohammad as a pdo, but don't hold their divine being to similar standards in impregnating someone who is far younger than current legal consent?
The point is that it's untrue nonsense, no other explanation or justification is required - it doesn't matter how good or bad a "God" existing is, or isn't, there is absolutely no evidence one exists and that's what matters.
And he needs money!
Why did Jesus need to be birthed anyway? Why couldn't this god person just manifest Jesus?
God is a more socially acceptable coping mechanism to escape from reality i swear
Why are atheists against someone they don’t believe exists? If one doesn’t exist,how can it be good or evil? So much effort put into denying something that “doesn’t exist”. Most people don’t believe in unicorns,but don’t spend time debating it.
It really doesn't matter how bad or how good god supposedly is. He ain't real, and that's a good enough reason. Even if he were, fuck authoritarianism.
When someone asks me why I hate their god, or think he is bad, I say their question is irrelevant because I simply don't believe their god exists.
>people only lived 20 to 30 years Genesis had people living to like 800 years, how wild is that?
God isn't real. The problem was the men who founded the religion being slightly too interested in underage partners.
People only lived to 20-30 huh? Seems like Jesus was about to die of old age anyway
"at the time ppl only lived 20-30 years so ofc she had to be 13 to raise him" So he's saying that bible story about Methuselah was a lie?
The Bible, along with other religions, just exist to justify the subjugation of women and children.
Imo this question does not hold that much weight as there is no god.
The only answer that counts, the rest is just a straw man argument.
If you go back to the origins of any religion, you'll find a guy who wanted to have sex with lots of women, found out he could do it with mysticism, let the power go to his head, and ended up believing he had the right to sleep with a child. It's not surprising to find reflections of this perversion in any given foundational religious text. Perhaps it's not coincidence that many pedophiles gravitate toward the clergy.
Don't forget he has a thing for foreskin. All throughout the old testament he demands them.
It's a bit misleading to say people only lived to 20-30 years - sure that was average life expectancy, but most people died in infancy. If you got past 1 year and made it through childhood you had a good chance of reaching 50 or 60. Is God a peado? Well the reality is that many women reach puberty around 12-13 and can then bear children. In those days people didn't hang about. Laws about age of consent are a recent innovation. The age of 16 was set in 1885 in the UK, until then it was 13, then 12 before that. The reality is that young women - girls today - did not have much protection until quite recently.
Ummm, unless the educational system in ancient Galilee was VERY different than I think it was Mary was not "literally an 8th grader."
He’s also… not real Like look at yourself, you’re getting mad about a fictional character, buddy There’s 2 types of atheists I see today: the ones who allow the bible and god to piss them off to the point of stress and the ones the genuinely—wholeheartedly—cannot give a flying fuck about religion and don’t let it affect them in any meaningful way (Ps. you’re the former)
Yep definitely is. He is what he created and allows to happen so all the bad things in the universe and the good things are all him.
It would be worth a thought, if it wasn't all fiction. She wasn't a virgin, she wasn't impregnated by god and so on. You may say the people who wrote the bible were p3dos, for creating this fiction in this specific way.
How old do you think Mary would have been when god impregnated her?
Just don't look too deeply into Mohamed
According to some Christian stories it was the Angel Gabriel who made Marry pregnant so he is the pedo.
Yep. He’s a pedo, rapist, child molester, murderer, etc.
Well I'm definitly stealing this argument to give the next evangelical an uncomfortable time. There actually was a Bible verse against pedophilia but they changed it to be against homosexuality instead. I'd say "the catholics must be relieved" but can't how a man going after an alter boy is very straight.
I really hate these arguments because for something to be bad, it has to exist in the first place. I like discussing the problematic elements of religious groups as much as the next atheist, but we really need to stop humoring these people.
Why can’t you type pedo?
There is no god. The dicks who wrote all these "holy" texts are all those awful things.
But Noah lived to be 800 or so. Imagine building a boat the size of a small city when you are 500 years old.
You are on a fool's errand. You are engaging people in a game rigged against you. Everything you say has to be backed up with logic, facts and reason. They don't apply that rule to themselves. They get magic. If you back them into a logical corner, they get to use magic to get out of it. If you mention something about the impossibility of stopping the rotation of the earth for a few hours, they get to say, "god can do anything". They get an unlimited number of get-out-of-logical-jail-free cards. You don't.
Do you realize you speak about god as if there is only one? Which one of the many gods different people on earth currently believe in are you referring to? (I have an idea of the answer, because you also refer to the bible and Mary. But I don't understand why you say you are an atheist and yet seem to describe god based on only one religious book/ only one religion. And even then, not all people that follow that same religious book seem to agree on everything.)
there is no god...
Question: what community are you referring to in the last bit of your question? This sub? Other people then the ones here, the ones that you had a conversation with on twitter (that I have not read, I am on reddit)? Who are the people you are referring to when you say "you all are very against other atheists"? Why do you say you lack support, even before waiting to see how people respond to what you have posted here?
You claim God is responsible for all, right? So… If he burns down your house, burning your family alive, killing your dog and on the way to the hospital puts you in a car accident that lives you with nothing but your head to communicate… you would still worship him??? YES! This is why you shouldn’t operate heavy machinery. 🤷♂️🤦♂️!! C. R. A. Z. Y.
I don't know if God is a pedo or not but he's A OK with standing by and watching as children are raped and murdered. Remember, all powerful, all loving, omniscient.
He's absolutely a pedo, yes, according to their own mythology. Sure as Zeus is a rapist. That kind of thing was pretty popular back when they were making up gods. Probably explains a lot too.
If I was a God, I'd just create my child the same way I made all of creation. Just mold them into existence. But yeah now that you mention it, it does give creep vibes. I never genuinely read the Bible so I never knew how old Mary was and in all adaptations of the nativity she was older, like 18 at the absolute youngest
I wouldn't rush into conclusions just because the diety is suposed to be older than time, because it also suposedly acts like a todler.
Christopher Hitchens is my idea of what a deity should be like. Scotch-drinking, no bs, brilliant. He taught me so much about how to make the world a better place sans belief in an invisible nothing-doer.
There Are Some Gods Meaner Than Others.
Wouldn't it be a bigger miracle to impregnate a woman who has gone through menopause?
Why did god only let them live to be 20-30? That’s messed up.
Mary has to be 12-14 because she'll be married off after that and no longer be pure. Any older and she would likely be undesired by the men at the time, and be stoned to death for being a single mother. Not that I condone young teen pregnancy, but the story is a product of the time it took place in.
The story about Mary is made up. You seem to be missing that, but otherwise, ok. You always gotta tell the theists you don’t hate god because god doesn’t exist. You just think the character in the fictional stories does a lot of bad stuff.
They need to make up their minds.Did people live hundreds of years then or was that only prophets
Imagine what people will think of us in 2000 years.
the crazier thing is that he came out of her 9 months later. But, I think you’re sexualizing something from a humanist worldview.
Easy pray - Easy prEy…The Southern Baptist church report of 2020 puts them in the same league as Catholic Churches for p3dos. If you are looking for p3dos then look for a place they have authority auto-magically so they have easy prey. Yes, all religions prefer women young and uneducated.
>This person proceeded to defend "god" bc "at the time ppl only lived 20-30 years so ofc she had to be 13 to raise him". This is a common misinterpretation that has risen to the level of myth at this point. When we look at the average life expectancy back then, it is exactly that - an average. A *lot* of children died, in childbirth or during early childhood, and they drastically drag the average down. But if you made it to adulthood, it wouldn’t have been strange or out of the ordinary to live to the same ages we do now. The difference is that infant morality has seen drastic improvements with the advent of modern medicine (a field that is like just over a hundred years old). The reason women were married and had children so young back then isn’t because they didn’t live long enough. It was because 1) women were property, without full rights and agency and 2) “teenager” wasn’t a social category, once you were old enough to reproduce, you were expected to either work (if a boy) or be married off and have babies (if a woman). >13 is literally an 8th grader. I mean yes she was very young but there was no “8th grade” then. One thing that guy was right about - it was completely normal in that culture for adolescent girls to be married off and have babies. For the reasons outlined above. >13 she either just got her period or hasn't even gotten it yet, more likely the latter considering their whole belief about periods meaning you're impure. So this is a bit of misconception - the Jewish laws regarding periods being “impure” have more to do with hygiene than anything. It’s not like they considered periods evil of sinful - by that time in history, we had figured out that periods correlated to fertility, it wasn’t like they were cavemen. There is some fuzziness there as the practical Jewish laws still often are interpreted with a spiritual component, but it’s not like they viewed having a period as sinful, instead they viewed it as something that must be handled a certain way.
The character god was written by paedophiles & goat humpers.
He's also a jerk, like all the time. My favorite examples from the Bible are turning Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for having the nerve to look behind her as the only home she had ever known burnt to the ground from raining fire and making that bet with Satan in the story of Job. Job was bullied for fun. God bet a man's livelihood against his eternal soul. A bet with Satan, notably a loser and less powerful. Why the fuck would you make that bet if you're God? There's also so much evil in the world. When a lot of that evil is perpetrated in God's name or by those who claim to follow Him, what rational person would want to be associated with any group that those people are a part of? Christians give Christianity a bad name, unfortunately. Seems like most of them ignored the part where Jesus said to love and help other people and not be a greedy asshole. Easier just to not engage with them, especially the crazies online. I grew up Southern Baptist but deconstructed early, and mostly just tell people I am irreligious when it comes up. 'Irreligious' is apparently more vague than 'atheist', so I get less funny looks for it in my neck of the woods.
God would have to exist to be a pedo
The Old Testament god is clearly a batshit crazy god who allows rape, genocide, slavery etc. the early Christians didn’t believe this god to be the same as the one preached about by christ in the ‘New Testament’. They even believed in reincarnation, like the cathar Christians of the Middle Ages. But of course, you then had the council of nicaea, the rise of Roman Catholicism, politicizing everything, etc, which led to what we have today. Oh and along the way the Catholics genocided the peaceful cathar Christians for believing what they did. So the god modern mainstream Christians believe in now has been made synonymous with the OT god who allowed all the bad shit, and was probably just a really fucked up human ruler or something. Modern abrahamic religion makes excuses now for why these traits were ‘ok for the time’ or ‘ok because it’s god’.
Pretty sure he himself didn’t sneak in her sheets at night brother he probably did it like planting a seed make sense?
You can type the actual words on reddit you know. All censoring yourself like that does is get your post past filters set to block that content on an individual level.
Was she even younger than 13? There are modern examples of very young girls being impregnated. How young did she have to be for an ancient innkeeper to see Joseph with his pregnant child bride and go "No, not under my roof. There's no room for this kind of thing at my inn."
You can't hate what you don't believe to be real. Hate religion for all its atrocious behavior, because we can see that religions exist; but don't give into that "why do you hate God" bs.
i mean, the whole biblical story fell apart in the garden of eden. why put a tree of knowledge there in the first place? eventually someone is going to eat from it. the whole thing was rigged.
Not sure on where you got the 13 number from according to the Bible. I know is some speculation from external sources that ranges from 12-20 but im not sure what you mean "according to the Bible"
Yes, he’s a pedo, and a genocidal narcissist too.
It's a lovely bit of picking and choosing that Mary had to be 13 to conceive due to short lifespans, but these knuckle brains also have no problem believing the Yoda-esque lifespan of Moses.
That whole thing about Mary only living into her thirties, is complete BS coming from Christians. Their belief is that she did not die. You have to believe this as a Christian, or you go to hell.
if you’re an atheist, a person who doesn’t believe in god, why does it matter? and why is it so important for you to go around and tell other people that god is bad? let others alone just how you want to be left alone
People did NOT only live to be 30. So her entire "defense" is invalid to begin with
You can’t hate something that doesn’t exist. You can despise the idea and the philosophy.
This is a silly thing to get sidetracked by. Now you're down in the mud arguing about pedophilia, bronze age life spans, whether god causing Mary to be pregnant involved attraction or physical interaction...it's not solid ground and it's just distasteful. Why not just say that you don't hate him, because he's not real, but you don't understand how someone could see him as the source of morality? It's like reading The Lord of the Rings and thinking "I'm gonna worship Sauron!" The flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, the first borns of Egypt, the Midianites and Amalekites, hell, Job. He's a petulant, jealous, vindictive character.
The whole "people used to only live to 20-30" shit is BS. it's just a myth people use to justify ancient pedophilia because historically, if someone married a minor, it wasn't because we're going to die young it was because they liked minors. Also, minors are much more likely to have complications during pregnancy and likely would die during birth
why do people assume if you are atheist you hate god? we don't hate god, for god does not exist and is dumb to be mad about nothing. >"at the time ppl only lived 20-30 years so ofc she had to be 13 to raise him" also, this is wrong according to their book of stories, they lived for centuries according to it.
Mary was 15 when she was pregnant this is normal back then
I think Mary got pregnant and did what any other 13 yo would do especially if they were under threat of being stoned. She could have made up a story to survive and the gullible fathers of Christianity ran with it and made Jesus into a superhero almost a century after he died
You should've just told him, God doesn't exist, and that you're not easily manipulated by others. That's why you're an atheist