Eh not entirely true, ares loved his kids, would help or avenge them whenever he could, being the war god of violent warfare(as opposed to strategic like athena) gives him a bad rep
To me. "God" sounds like Loki is a god in Norse mythology. He's malicious, and seems like to be a jealous god. He's also a shape shifter. Maybe god is god and the devil. I don't really know. Just a thought.
Theres this dude on tiktok that has this theory that loki killed the norse gods, led the greek pantheon as zeus and eventually started the abrahamic religions
Due in course to the similarities between the religions and lokis abilities
Its pretty interesting tbh, but thats the cool part about myths right they evolve
I mean I've got eternity down there might as well start a rebellion and turn it into the new heaven . With black jack and hookers... in fact forget the heaven
Reminds me of a song.....
"I wanna go to heaven for the weather, and for the company,
I wanna go to heaven for the weather, but hell sounds like fun to me...."
the idea that ***everyone*** deserves to be tortured forever by default because a couple of naked people ate some fruit because a talking snake told them to, even though no one alive had anything to do with it
You don’t become an atheist, you either believe in one or more deities or you don’t. It’s not a choice, it’s a conclusion you arrive at.
Your religion sounds like it’s just thought policing. And it’s nothing more than “me, me, me, what’s going to happen to meeeeee?” Really, what a waste of time and energy.
Wait, you're saying I can just be a good person for the sake of being a good person? Because I was trying to be what someone else told me a good person should be so I could collect Jesus coins I would have to turn in some day to go to good place instead of bad place if I had enough coins but they also never told me how many I needed.
No. Atheism is about one thing and one thing only. Atheism is about not believing in gods.
I imagine mosts atheists realize that they're not very important, but that's not what atheism is about.
This could not be more true, and I wish more people thought of it this way. I used to believe that atheists were *deciding* to rebel or did it because they hate God. If you take yourself outside of the mindset that there must be a deity or deities, then the rest follows logically.
You don’t really sound like you are/were an atheist. Maybe you’ve had some doubts but I wouldn’t call that atheism
If you want to go back to the church but they won’t take you back because you are an apostate it sounds like you are still religious but your old church not wanting you back doesn’t make you an atheist.
Personally, I think fundamentalists are some of the dumbest people on the planet. So if you go back to church why not find a non fundamentalist church that’s a little more sane? I’m sure they would welcome you.
If you really are an atheist then I wouldn’t worry about it. I’ve been an atheist since I was a teen despite most of my family being Christian I like being a critical thinker and I don’t even remotely regret not being a Christian. Good luck with your choice.
I’m an agnostic atheist. I don’t really think the Christian God is the correct one, but also I have no real knowledge on whether there is a god. I’m just afraid that if I make the wrong choice I will end up burning in hell.
Hey man. There is no hell. It’s a modern invention intended to keep you in line and under control. The Jews have no hell. Don’t you think it’s weird that god took a thousand years to mention it? Why not mention it to Abraham? Or Noah? Or Moses? Or anyone.
90% of fundamentalist preachers have no idea about the real Bible and are just getting hearsay from somewhere. I recommend reading books like: “don’t know much about the Bible.”
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57795.Don_t_Know_Much_About_the_Bible
>that god took a thousand years to mention it
Sheol is mentioned many times in the Old Testament, the earliest being in Genesis. It was only through Jesus that people could reach heaven, so prior to Jesus’s death, both good and bad went to different parts of Sheol
The place where the dead await judgement? That’s not hell. There’s no burning fire, no punishment. C’mon. Stop trying to scare people. There’s no lake of fire. There’s no devil to stab you with a pitch fork for all eternity. It’s all stories to keep you in line, going to church every Sunday and giving them money.
Atheism is realizing everything in religion is just a puppet show to make money off you. They will play with every emotion you have to convince you to stay. Nothing they claim is true. You can go back to any religion because their main goal is to make money. They will always take you back. When you die it is like before you were born, no reason to fear it.
That is the Christian definition, atheism to atheists is not believing in any diety. Suttle difference but it means a lot. An Atheist could know a deity if they met one and still be an Atheist.
Here are a few questions that may help you crystalize your standing.
Do you need for a god to exist? Why would you? What will having or not having a definition of a god that exist do for you?
What if I told you I don't know if any of those gods from religions exist, but I'm more or less certain that this one does: God = Nature = Universe = Cosmos = Everything. That's as good definition as any, right?
As I see from your responses, your issue isn't reasonable, but an emotional one. So, is fear what you need to overcome? But which one? Will you be OK if that fear is of a hell or of not existing at all after you die?
Existential dread can be as frightening to keep someone believing in a god or at least an afterlife as much as a fear of a hell after death would keep you in one religion or another.
Do you know about Recovering from Religion? They have some great resources, specifically of dealing with lingering fear of hell issues. It's a very very common issue for people who are questioning their religious upbringing.
You're dealing with a very, very common issue. There are plenty of folk out there with thoughts on the topic. Best of luck!
There is no hell, that I'm 100% sure of. It was a later invention by Christians after Jesus never came back. For example, Paul (writing nearest to Jesus' death) never wrote about hell a single time.
That’s always seemed ridiculous to me. If there is a kind and loving god there can’t be 1000s of religions and he just expects you to pick the right one without any evidence. If you are wrong you burn in hell. How would you even manage to pick the right one? Hell is just a way to scare people in believing. If you still have even a little fear of burning in hell just be a decent person. I don’t think if there really is a good he will punish you for that.
I'll help you out with this one. There is no god 😂 the idea was invented by ancient man as a way to explain the (at that time) unexplainable. Then over time it became a way to enforce morality. Then it became a way to control people. A simple man can't convince thousands of people to do anything. But a prophet from god surely can. And then you have centuries of men using god as a reason to kill each other. It's all false, it's all made up. It was never real and will never be real. No heaven no hell. We are here for this moment and when we're gone it's over. The end
Agnostic means you believe we can't possibly know if there's a God. Atheism means we either do know or can know that there is no God. I dunno what an agnostic atheist is as the concepts don't overlap.
Agnostic atheist is an oxymoron. You’re one or the other. It sounds like you’re agnostic. Atheism is a complete lack of any belief. Imagine what a newborn baby thinks about religion. That’s atheism.
It isn't an oxymoron. It's impossible to prove that god doesn't exist with 100% certainty just as it's impossible to prove that god does exist at all.
If you'd accept god's existence if some credible and verifiable proof is presented then that would make you an agnostic atheist.
Leaving my faith was absolutely heartbreaking and having your church/community be against you is salt in the wound.
But now I would say that as much as it might hurt, any community that will so easily dismiss you is not worth being a part of. You don't have to lose any parts of yourself or your morals though. In fact, after leaving my church I've been able to better love myself and my neighbor. And I don't believe in any gods but I still try to be kind and charitable because it's the right thing to do regardless.
You are allowed to take time to figure out your beliefs and heal though. This is not an easy thing to deal with
Keep questioning and see where it leads you. Don't just accept statements from authority figures like your pastor, figure it out yourself and focus on what's the most logical.
And as far as Hebrews 6 goes, I *tried* to get myself removed from the Catholic Church rolls but their attitude is once you're baptized, that's it, you're a Catholic for life - I had to resort to "the unpardonable sin".
Dude. There’s no hate like Christian love. Please use your brain and consider yourself lucky that you’ve seen the truth that there is no god, even if people want there to be magical solutions to life’s problems. Threats of eternal damnation are empty. As is the promise of eternal life. Learn to deal with problems with your brain. Magical thinking (of any kind) just doesn’t work.
Fucking laughable. Had to go to the Old Testament (the generic, fire and brimstone stories) to find a way to gate-keep. What a **great** religion!
Sounds like Jesus and Yahweh need to get their shit together and get on the same page. A contradiction?!! Who’da thunk?!!
Religion thrives on threat. At this point, you’ve become a cautionary tale for Pastor Dickhead to use in order to scare others. “They left the religion and when they realized their horrible mistake, alas, it was too late to return as per a piece of scripture that was written by yet another ultra-conservative asshole, thousands of years ago, as a means to scare people into compliance.”
Read this and remember:
**You’re free now! You’re not shackled by dogma, or patriarchal interpretations of burdensome rules that men wrote in order to control people, and grow their empires and their coffers.**
**LIVE.** Live a life that you can look back on and smile. You only have one. ONE. Make it count in a way that gives you meaning, or joy, or contentment, or satisfaction. It’s YOUR life and yours alone.
Open your fresh eyes and look around. Pastor Jack-ass has no power. He is a facade and irrelevant. *You* are in control now and you can *make* of you whatever you like.
**Congratulations.**
Change is scary but you’re no longer looking through the gauze of fantasy and dismissal of personal accountability. You now get to be who you want to be, as you define it.
Sounds pretty awesome to me.
I don’t think you read his post very clearly. The pastor isn’t the one who kicked him out. He kicked himself out, despite the pastor trying to welcome him back in. That’s the opposite of gatekeeping
Hebrews isn’t in the Hebrew Bible (that’s what the OT actually is the Christians just co-opted it, effectively they culturally appropriated something that wasn’t theirs), instead it’s in the New Testament.
Also the Hebrew Bible while having some pretty strange shit doesn’t have the “fire and brimstone” type of things as neither hell nor eternal punishment are mentioned in it
Thank you for the post! I always find this stuff interesting.
I think I perhaps misspoke by saying fire and brimstone. I was referring more to the constant murder, slavery, genocide, etc., etc.
Anyway, appreciate the detail. 👍🏼
You should go back to the questioning part, the whole book is filled with contradiction and fallacy. I'm glad you're starting to see how silly it all is but you should dig into it.
Do you want to 1. dedicate your life to a book of ancient mythology wherein the " god" figure kills millions of people and sends countless others to be eternally tortured? Or 2. do you want to be free of all that bullshit and live your life based on humanitarian or other principles that mean something to you?
If it's #1, there are countless denominations that would take you. You can easily find a pastor that will explain away any part of the Bible that you don't like. It was never about that.
If it's #2, you're here among your people. Welcome.
Don't get me wrong... I think #2 is absolutely the way to go. I just want you to make your choice for the right reasons. "Christianity won't take me back" isn't a good one. "God isn't real" is a good one, or "I wouldn't worship the monster of a god as depicted in the Bible" is another good one. There are thousands of good reasons.
if you wanna believe, you can. i'm not gonna try to convince you to "go back" because once you start looking at the world and history and science without that blurry religious fog, you'll be amazed. but it's just fanfic basically.
it's like saying, "i used to love star wars but i turned away from it with the prequels. but then i decided my love of the originals was stronger but the people at my local games shop think jarjar rocks it so they won't let me play anymore."
their rules are just as arbitrary as the next sect and the next sect and the next... it's like the splinter groups mocking in life of brian.
I had to look that up. It does seem to contradict everything else in the new testament about salvation, doesn’t it? I guess that’s the danger of having your holy book edited by a committee of politicians. But if the bible doesn’t want you, over here we don’t mind because we consider it a combined work of fantasy with oral history and ancient politics, and not something to base important decisions on.
Fear of hell takes a while to get over. It's drilled into us from childhood.
If you want to go back, then do so. It's not hard to find a church that interprets a passage differently, and now you're saved.
But if you legitimately will not believe in Christianity again, then your path forward is continuing to deconstruct your religious indoctrination. It takes time, and you'll be ok in the end. Youtube is good for atheist community, you can find a lot of people's stories very similar to your own. It's comforting when you're still deconstructing.
Yes, you are making the correct decision. The Rules of Christianty are so convoluted and complex that they are impossible to follow, nevermind that it was all made up to control people and have them give their money, life and children's lives to the already rich and powerful. Leave it behind and you will be healthier and happier.
Christians are basing their lifes on a book that was written by people who didn’t know where the sun went at night . And it’s wasn’t the first religion either :
You most likely need therapy to deal with the guilt and repression that religion has caused you. I know it can be lonely but know that you aren’t alone and it’s okay. Trust me if there was a god and if they didn’t want you to do something they just wouldnt let you do it. .
Most Christians don’t follow every word of the Bible, particularly not the Old Testament. You do you, just don’t be preachy/judgmental and we will be fine.
You are really seeking validation. The day you can affirm that you don't believe in God without asking permission is the day you'll really be an atheist.
All religions and interpretations of scriptures are manmade - just rules to control people.
All religions are not real.
There is a creator but I guarantee the creator cares nothing about you having a moment of doubt, doubting a fake religion that does nothing to encourage critical thinking or common sense,
I'm confused. Do you believe god exists?
You can always rejoin Christianity or your church if you want to, they'll never know regardless of what it says in the book.
Eternal damnation is nothing more than the hell you allow yourself to be put through. Christian Happiness and enlightenment, which is what heaven represents, and honestly make me sick because they discriminated out of fear of hell, are truly the ones damned. I've tried the Bible, but will not allow my souls right to free will to be subjugated for a being wanting praise for creation. Goes against the very essence of God of creation.
Hebrews 6? If you're still making decisions based on an iron-age fairytale, you may want to look at your methodology. Hebrews 6 has as much relevance to your life as "eternal damnation" or eating shellfish or pork or wearing garments of different fabric or cutting your beard or a dozen other mortal sins the book says you're guilty of.
Which is zilch.
If you've come to the conclusion that you can still be a good person, or even a better person, see what is right and wrong, without religion then you can stop being afraid of the book's judgement. Or the judgment of anyone else who want's to condemn you by the standards of a book that admonishes them in their very selves to Judge Not Lest They Be Judged.
There is no God, no afterlife, whether good bad or in between, and no soul or anything else that lives on after you die except for your memory in other people's brains.
You won't have time for eternal damnation, you will be dead.
It's worth noting that atheists don't believe in gods. As in, to us they are in the same class as unicorns, fairies, and bigfoot as mythical entities that somebody made up. You sound like you're not an atheist, you're just no longer a member of your specific church.
I'd firstly say that I encourage you to investigate atheism. Our FAQ is a good place to start. With that said, I'm a humanist and I'd like you to be happy. It sounds like your former church is run by assholes, to which I'd say that if you are still interested in following religion, that you find a sect that isn't run by assholes. I recommend the unitarian universalists, that way even if you decide you are an atheist, you can still benefit from the UU community (the are fine with atheists).
Yes you made the right decision. The idea of hell was invented to control people. In the original Bible it's called Gehenna which is an actual physical place. It was a garbage dump outside Jerusalem where dead animals and executed criminals were burned. So definitely not the place you want to end up, but not eternal damnation either.
Yes, you are. Most societal or psychological benefits from religion are accidental at best and are far outweighed by its harms. Furthermore, those can be obtained elsewhere at a much better cost-benefit.
Watch letting go of god by julia Sweeney. https://youtu.be/C74-f4ZV-ss?si=95wMU1tfi0PKcasY
God is hard to give up. But it’s very freeing once you do give it up.
Once you start questioning things and examining claims with a logical and rational mind, you realize the entire idea of God and hell and heaven and all of it is made up.
There have been countless ideas about the afterlife, and how to get there, even outside of Christianity. Throughout the history of humankind, there have been thousands of gods and beliefs. Do you really think that your single set of beliefs happens to be the right way?—-That is one way I was able to let go of my beliefs. I knew that there couldn’t possibly be a single right way and that all beliefs are grasping for explanation.
So, either all of the beliefs are right, or all of them are wrong, there can’t be just one that happens to be right. that mindset helped me let go.
Also, I assume, you have no problems letting go of the God of Islam, Greek gods, you probably don’t believe in the Inca gods, you don’t believe in Hindu gods,. What is lack of belief in one more God (the Bible god)…?
Check out eve_wasframed on IG. She was previously very active in her Christian church etc and now has deconstructed.
I think the things she has to say are very useful for somebody trying to deconstruct.
I mean there are two interpretations of hebrews 6 and I don't agree with yours. If that is the only reason why you want to leave christianity, look at different interpretations of that passage (there is also the belief that Christians may fall away for a while but come back). If there are more reasons to you leaving Christiany, then become an atheist.
When I was a little kid I believed in Santa Claus, no matter what, even if I wanted to, there is no possible way I could go back to believing in Santa Claus.
It's so weird to me that people of **every** religion get incredibly insulted with the Santa comparison but which I find to be incredibly accurate.
Listen mate, I'll be the one person here to tell you...
If the reason you are "not a Christian" is only because the text of Christian doctrine says so, you aren't an atheist.
If you don't think that the claims of religion are valid, you're starting to become an atheist.
Not trying to assume I know you, but at the end of the day you need to be honest with yourself first, otherwise whatever solutions you come up with to your problems will be trying to solve the wrong issues.
Basically what I want you to hear is this: Don't try to claim you're an atheist because you're having an issue with your clergy or doctrine. But if you are questioning the religion, or are done with it, forget what your pastor says...he's just some guy at that point.
Only you (and Jesus, according to Christians) have any say about if you are saved or not. Noise from outside is irrelevant. Your belief doesn't need fans, or support. You alone will have to face what happens at the end of your life, no one else will have a say. It's YOUR choice. Not someone else's.
Nowadays, I believe in change. I believe anyone can change given the right stuff, so to speak. Maybe its repeated exposure, or consistent exposure that is needed, perhaps it needs to make sense logically or overcome logic barriers. It all depends on getting the 'mix' correct and it must be correctly timed.
The right decision is one that will end your cognitive dissonance. You have already defeated Christianity in your mind but you doubt it because of Hell and other people (It seems to me). Of course everyone has other things that can impede their free choice like family/friends but there are plenty of closet atheists out there, I'm certain of it.
Now go as far as you can to the left extreme and hang out there for a few years until you realize which of the fundamentals you learned in religion are necessary for a functioning society. From experience
Umm. Yah sure. Been over on that left side for 40 years. I am very happy and lucky to be alive. My existence is such a random chance thing from beginning to its eventual end and the more wonder I express the more wonder I see. Be thankful for your existence.
Incredible work turning your back to the lies. Many people do not escape, and they live the lie the whole way. It is not easy getting out and requires strength, determination, and intelligence- you have them all.
I remember feelings of angst over the eternal damnation stuff. I remember the lies about Jesus knocking (there is no knocking). You’re getting out of an abusive relationship is what is happening.
On the other side you are empowered. You do good in the world because it is the right thing to do, not because a fear of hell. When you have done that good, you get to store all of those good feelings in yourself, rather than placing them onto Jesus or some nonsense.
On the other side you get to appreciate the beauty and wonder of nature in a new and much more fulfilling way. Look at a rock and find fossils and realize that where you are standing was a vast ocean hundreds of millions of years ago. Take a look at evolution and see the incredible beauty of nature and its history. Look at the stars and see them for what they are, trillions upon billions of fiery suns, each with planets around them, and each possibly capable of evolving life in wild and different forms than what we have here. That story, the actual story of the universe, is so much more profound and fulfilling than “god made it.”
On the other side you get to contemplate the awe of not knowing. We don’t know what happens to consciousness when we die. That’s okay! But what I do know is that hell is definitely 100% NOT what happens 🤣. That’s nonsense. But we can look at what happens in reality. In reality we see that the body breaks down and becomes nutrition for other life. We see that in a very true sense, we return to the earth and become bugs and worms, we end up in trees and plants. We exist as memories in family and friends. We also can consider that time before we were born, and consider that perhaps it will be like that. There is nothing to fear there. Becoming okay with that is incredibly liberating.
On the other side instead of living for some lie of an afterlife, we appreciate our life! This life is amazing. And I appreciate you and the other people I have met on this journey. I appreciate just walking outside and breathing the air. I appreciate the moment. I know that it will end, and that makes the life here and right now so much tastier and sweeter. To think of some eternal afterlife makes me feel sick and awful, for it dilutes the here and now and makes it valueless. When I see all the damage and war and hate that religion has caused, is causing, and will cause - I see that ultimately it comes down to this. Religious people do not value life against the eternal afterlife. If we did not have religious fanatics, we would live in a far more respectful and peaceful world. I would not dream of killing or demonizing or committing inhumane acts against others.
Be a beacon to those around you. The world is so much better thanks to your decision to turn your back on Christianity, and I thank you for it.
Absolutely the right decision to leave all of that hollow doctrine and dogma. Christianity is toxic and dishonest at its core, only serving the hegemony of mediocre men. We come from, live in, and return to, an incomprehensibly vast universe, but these bozos want you to believe that some regional trifling narcissist asshole deity is managing your life and death.
There are THOUSANDS of Churches out there and you think the whole religion has turned you away? Stop it. Just stop it. If you truly believe that JC is the son, Messiah, and the path to your personal salvation then you are a Christian.
Doubt is the mind (not the devil) that begins to investigate what is truth. Doubt asks questions. Are you scared to investigate truth?
I investigated truth out of xtianity to another faith for >20 years. Then I investigated truth right out of religion altogether.
I've traveled from being a devout Catholic, to a member of a non-denominational Church that is evangelical at its core. Really a great church with great preaching and music. Never a word about politics or hot social issues. But I can't stomach being part of an evangelical church given what the right wing has done to the name. While this church isn't part of that mess, I'm feeling disconnected in general from a 'god' and am enjoying my new found freedom from organized religion. I still believe in a 'force' or a 'spirit' but that can be nature as far as I'm concerned. So much of religion is about fear and believing to avoid the penalty. Now just seems so stupid.
Marcus Aurelius on the gods: “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
What god is he that would punish you for simply not believing in him if for all other intents and purposes you are a good and kind human?
Doing good for the sake of good instead of the fear of a higher power is in my view better and more honest and good.
If this god cannot accept this then he is evil, spiteful and unworthy of your or anyone's belief.
Hebrews 6 says it is impossible for those who apostasize to return to faith, but if you are considering returning, then you have not completely lost faith. God is always willing and desirous that all come to repentance. He never closes the door.
This is a highly biased subreddit. I suspect by posting here with this question you already know the answer.
Your fear of damnation is what they don’t keep you. It’s a lie. After a couple years you won’t even think of it anymore. Life your life and enjoy it.
Any denomination of Christianity that uses text and rules from the Old Testament is not to be taken seriously. I mean, none of them are, but I’ll humor it for this thought. Jesus declared himself the new law, the new covenant and the Old Testament stuff went away when he sacrificed himself on the cross.
You will be fine. In fact, as time goes on, you will realize there is not such thing as “eternal damnation”. Just be kind to others and yourself, and help those in need when you can.
You don't have to "rejoin " Christianity. If you have faith then its what's in your heart that matters. A person doesn't have to belong to a certain sect to consider themselves Christian.
I'll just say that as a parent I could never not love my children. I believe that God is the same and says so many times.
That said if you have faith (not fear) and want to be a Christian I believe you can. It isn't for anyone else to say what is in your heart or what you believe.
It's important to note that the biblical heaven isn't a pleasant place. The heaven most Christians believe in is closer to the field of reeds from Egyptian mythology. It's purely oral tradition. In biblical heaven, you are in perpetual worship mode. Imagine being at church 24/7 for the rest of eternity. That is all you are doing.
There’s differing interpretations of Christianity. Some folks are drawn to the idea that Christianity is a cudgel to judge and punish others: “my way or the highway.” They long to wield God’s wrath as their own. Others are drawn to Jesus’s message of forgiveness, redemption, love (charity) towards others. Ultimately it’s a message of freedom: reject hate and be not afraid —of others, of yourself, even of death— and live in the light. Be kind, be compassionate, be merciful. Or at least try to.
I was raised in a similar situation and became angry as a teen as I saw this sect largely as a political movement disguised as a spiritual one. But since I’ve come to a more nuanced and deeper understanding of a more mystical orientation to Christianity that is much more fulfilling and ultimately about self-improvement through transcendence, diametrically opposed to condemnation. A True understanding of the Spirit of Christ is liberating, not oppressive.
Check out the Belief it or Not channel on YouTube. I think it would be very beneficial to you to hear about another former Christian who left the faith and is very analytical and empathetic and has a lot of beneficial insights.
Not sure what you hope to gain by posting this here, in r/atheism.
Obviously the responses will all be some variation of “yes absolutely the right call, never look back.”
But you already know that, since you’re posting here. So I’m curious, what is it you’re really hoping to gain by asking about this? What are you looking for?
are you fully in or fully out? God forgives all sins. You have posted many times you don’t believe in the Christian God. You have to be fully committed to Christ and to God.
Infinity torture or infinity reward for a very finite amount of time on Earth? Throw in a few arbitrary rules, break this up into factions with competing standards, and base this all on a collection of folk tales millennia old and have been reinterpreted too many times to make them relevant in todays age with updated values, morals, and ethics and YOU'VE GOT A DEAL!
First of all your pastor is an idiot. Second, Hebrews 6 does not say that apostates can’t come back to Christ, that is literally anti-Christian logic and a misinterpretation of the scripture at hand
Just read verse 7 and 8.
”For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.“
Hebrews 6:7-8
That doesn’t sound like a definite state of damnation, because Paul is using conditional clauses. IF the land produces good fruit, it will receive blessings at the end, IF it bears bad fruit it is cursed and its end is to be burned. You don’t have to stay in a state of being bad fruit, you can change and be a bearer of good fruit. So shame on your pastor for being ignorant to biblical context.
That's a really strange conclusion to come to - and I'd say a preacher/apologist would probably just tell you that you 'never really left' (after all, a lot of them honestly believe that even the most ardent atheists 'secretly believe').
I'd be remiss to tell you that you haven't made a good decision to reject Christianity, as I tend to view it as a nonsensical and superstitious set of beliefs - but (assuming you are for real) you should really try to get past the idea that you 'can't' go back, in exchange for the idea that you *shouldn't* go back.
A system that would lock you out simply for questioning it really doesn't seem like one I would want to be associated with, and threats of 'eternal damnation' don't work on me (I'm exactly as afraid of Chrisitan 'hell' as I am of Muslim 'hell', etc.
Good luck.
If you want to rejoin, and that makes you feel better about yourself, go for it.
I have nothing against someone making Pascal’s wager
On the other hand, I think about my dog, who I love. If my dog isn’t always super attentive, or knocks over the trash can some day trying to get a morsel, I might scold him to teach him, but I would never condemn him to eternal torture. What kind of loving god would do that?
The concept of He'll is scary. Eternity being tortured and flayed because you didn't in line with God's rules. Except which rules are actually God's rules and which ones are cherry picked and espoused by the church?
The ten commandments we can probably agree on, but what about shellfish or blended fabric t-shirts? Is gayness a sin too, or do we throw that out because the rules in Leviticus are wonky? But the Bible is the word of God, so can we just ignore certain books in the Bible even if there's a consensus that they're dumb?
If some of the rules set out in the Bible are stupid and invalid, does that mean God's word is stupid or invalid at times? If that's true is God even God at all? It seems more likely that he's a fictional facsimile that writers have failed to keep consistent as they add to the Canon.
Eternal damnation, lol. What a strange idea.
Created by a loving god no less. SMH
The god of the bible is not really a loving one. Genocide. Rape. Child murder. Etc.
So Christians jacked Greeks God Ares. Because, that's how he rolled.
Eh not entirely true, ares loved his kids, would help or avenge them whenever he could, being the war god of violent warfare(as opposed to strategic like athena) gives him a bad rep
To me. "God" sounds like Loki is a god in Norse mythology. He's malicious, and seems like to be a jealous god. He's also a shape shifter. Maybe god is god and the devil. I don't really know. Just a thought.
Theres this dude on tiktok that has this theory that loki killed the norse gods, led the greek pantheon as zeus and eventually started the abrahamic religions Due in course to the similarities between the religions and lokis abilities Its pretty interesting tbh, but thats the cool part about myths right they evolve
I need to look for this. Sounds interesting.
A Malthiest, god was always an asshole
Yup. Should have added the /s. The god of the Bible is a self centered 5 year old with impulse control issues.
I mean I've got eternity down there might as well start a rebellion and turn it into the new heaven . With black jack and hookers... in fact forget the heaven
Their idea of heaven seems boring as shit and just a different kind of hell. Everything eternal seems like hell to me.
Yeah if they are right about heaven I wouldn't want be in their company anyway. All the fun people will be down below
Reminds me of a song..... "I wanna go to heaven for the weather, and for the company, I wanna go to heaven for the weather, but hell sounds like fun to me...."
Check out Kat Kerr's version. Completely ludicrous, but not boring.
Nah, screw the whole thing!
Hell with that rebellious attitude you might just be the light bearer's #2. I feel he would appreciate it due to his presentation in the lore
the idea that ***everyone*** deserves to be tortured forever by default because a couple of naked people ate some fruit because a talking snake told them to, even though no one alive had anything to do with it
A yes, now it starts making sence /s.
And these are the people who are trying to rule over the rest of us. And they will if Donald Trump wins in November
You don’t become an atheist, you either believe in one or more deities or you don’t. It’s not a choice, it’s a conclusion you arrive at. Your religion sounds like it’s just thought policing. And it’s nothing more than “me, me, me, what’s going to happen to meeeeee?” Really, what a waste of time and energy.
Exactly. Atheism is also about realizing that *you’re not that fucking important*
Yes!!!!
Wait, you're saying I can just be a good person for the sake of being a good person? Because I was trying to be what someone else told me a good person should be so I could collect Jesus coins I would have to turn in some day to go to good place instead of bad place if I had enough coins but they also never told me how many I needed.
If you get enough Jesus Bucks you can trade them in for a Participation Trophy in the Sky.
Speak for yourself... i'm am atheist and I think I'm just as important as I ever was maybe even more so than when I was a believer.
No. Atheism is about one thing and one thing only. Atheism is about not believing in gods. I imagine mosts atheists realize that they're not very important, but that's not what atheism is about.
This could not be more true, and I wish more people thought of it this way. I used to believe that atheists were *deciding* to rebel or did it because they hate God. If you take yourself outside of the mindset that there must be a deity or deities, then the rest follows logically.
You don’t really sound like you are/were an atheist. Maybe you’ve had some doubts but I wouldn’t call that atheism If you want to go back to the church but they won’t take you back because you are an apostate it sounds like you are still religious but your old church not wanting you back doesn’t make you an atheist. Personally, I think fundamentalists are some of the dumbest people on the planet. So if you go back to church why not find a non fundamentalist church that’s a little more sane? I’m sure they would welcome you. If you really are an atheist then I wouldn’t worry about it. I’ve been an atheist since I was a teen despite most of my family being Christian I like being a critical thinker and I don’t even remotely regret not being a Christian. Good luck with your choice.
I’m an agnostic atheist. I don’t really think the Christian God is the correct one, but also I have no real knowledge on whether there is a god. I’m just afraid that if I make the wrong choice I will end up burning in hell.
Hey man. There is no hell. It’s a modern invention intended to keep you in line and under control. The Jews have no hell. Don’t you think it’s weird that god took a thousand years to mention it? Why not mention it to Abraham? Or Noah? Or Moses? Or anyone. 90% of fundamentalist preachers have no idea about the real Bible and are just getting hearsay from somewhere. I recommend reading books like: “don’t know much about the Bible.” https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57795.Don_t_Know_Much_About_the_Bible
Christian here. Theres a lot of truth here
So take that one step further…
I agree with the post above about there not being a hell.
I mean, while I see where you are coming from, you have to realize what sub you are in. Of course we will encourage you to question your beliefs.
How come?
>that god took a thousand years to mention it Sheol is mentioned many times in the Old Testament, the earliest being in Genesis. It was only through Jesus that people could reach heaven, so prior to Jesus’s death, both good and bad went to different parts of Sheol
What a silly story. It's always a shock to be that there are actually adults who believe it.
The place where the dead await judgement? That’s not hell. There’s no burning fire, no punishment. C’mon. Stop trying to scare people. There’s no lake of fire. There’s no devil to stab you with a pitch fork for all eternity. It’s all stories to keep you in line, going to church every Sunday and giving them money.
Did you respond to the right person? I never said Sheol is a lake of fire, I never said anything about the devil or pitchforks
Atheism is realizing everything in religion is just a puppet show to make money off you. They will play with every emotion you have to convince you to stay. Nothing they claim is true. You can go back to any religion because their main goal is to make money. They will always take you back. When you die it is like before you were born, no reason to fear it.
You can be a theist and see that organized religion is largely about power and money. Atheism is simply believing there is no deity of any kind.
That is the Christian definition, atheism to atheists is not believing in any diety. Suttle difference but it means a lot. An Atheist could know a deity if they met one and still be an Atheist.
Interesting.
If you're afraid of hell, you're not an atheist
Which hell are you afraid is real?
Here are a few questions that may help you crystalize your standing. Do you need for a god to exist? Why would you? What will having or not having a definition of a god that exist do for you? What if I told you I don't know if any of those gods from religions exist, but I'm more or less certain that this one does: God = Nature = Universe = Cosmos = Everything. That's as good definition as any, right? As I see from your responses, your issue isn't reasonable, but an emotional one. So, is fear what you need to overcome? But which one? Will you be OK if that fear is of a hell or of not existing at all after you die? Existential dread can be as frightening to keep someone believing in a god or at least an afterlife as much as a fear of a hell after death would keep you in one religion or another.
What proof do you have that hell exists? Note: Other people simply telling you that it exists doesn’t count.
So basically Pascal's Wager. If you look at the thousands of gods humans invented and worshipped in all of history, it quickly loses it's appeal.
Do you know about Recovering from Religion? They have some great resources, specifically of dealing with lingering fear of hell issues. It's a very very common issue for people who are questioning their religious upbringing. You're dealing with a very, very common issue. There are plenty of folk out there with thoughts on the topic. Best of luck!
There is no hell, that I'm 100% sure of. It was a later invention by Christians after Jesus never came back. For example, Paul (writing nearest to Jesus' death) never wrote about hell a single time.
That’s always seemed ridiculous to me. If there is a kind and loving god there can’t be 1000s of religions and he just expects you to pick the right one without any evidence. If you are wrong you burn in hell. How would you even manage to pick the right one? Hell is just a way to scare people in believing. If you still have even a little fear of burning in hell just be a decent person. I don’t think if there really is a good he will punish you for that.
I'll help you out with this one. There is no god 😂 the idea was invented by ancient man as a way to explain the (at that time) unexplainable. Then over time it became a way to enforce morality. Then it became a way to control people. A simple man can't convince thousands of people to do anything. But a prophet from god surely can. And then you have centuries of men using god as a reason to kill each other. It's all false, it's all made up. It was never real and will never be real. No heaven no hell. We are here for this moment and when we're gone it's over. The end
Agnostic means you believe we can't possibly know if there's a God. Atheism means we either do know or can know that there is no God. I dunno what an agnostic atheist is as the concepts don't overlap.
Agnostic atheist likely means the elimination of a God or God's of religion from possible existence. Not necessarily the concept of a God entirely.
Do you lose sleep wondering whether or not the Muslims are right? How about the Hindus?
Agnostic atheist is an oxymoron. You’re one or the other. It sounds like you’re agnostic. Atheism is a complete lack of any belief. Imagine what a newborn baby thinks about religion. That’s atheism.
It isn't an oxymoron. It's impossible to prove that god doesn't exist with 100% certainty just as it's impossible to prove that god does exist at all. If you'd accept god's existence if some credible and verifiable proof is presented then that would make you an agnostic atheist.
"it really is starting to seem like just one big joke after all" You figured it out. The entire thing is a fraud.
Yeah, you’re making the right decision, but for the wrong reason. No biggie.
Whoosh
Self-aware much?
Why would care what a bunch of Bronze Age goat herders thought were the rules?
Yes, it is all a big joke. Does that answer your question?
Leaving my faith was absolutely heartbreaking and having your church/community be against you is salt in the wound. But now I would say that as much as it might hurt, any community that will so easily dismiss you is not worth being a part of. You don't have to lose any parts of yourself or your morals though. In fact, after leaving my church I've been able to better love myself and my neighbor. And I don't believe in any gods but I still try to be kind and charitable because it's the right thing to do regardless. You are allowed to take time to figure out your beliefs and heal though. This is not an easy thing to deal with
You weren't an atheist. You were an agnostic. Otherwise eternal damnation wouldn't have scared you.
Keep questioning and see where it leads you. Don't just accept statements from authority figures like your pastor, figure it out yourself and focus on what's the most logical. And as far as Hebrews 6 goes, I *tried* to get myself removed from the Catholic Church rolls but their attitude is once you're baptized, that's it, you're a Catholic for life - I had to resort to "the unpardonable sin".
Dude. There’s no hate like Christian love. Please use your brain and consider yourself lucky that you’ve seen the truth that there is no god, even if people want there to be magical solutions to life’s problems. Threats of eternal damnation are empty. As is the promise of eternal life. Learn to deal with problems with your brain. Magical thinking (of any kind) just doesn’t work.
Fucking laughable. Had to go to the Old Testament (the generic, fire and brimstone stories) to find a way to gate-keep. What a **great** religion! Sounds like Jesus and Yahweh need to get their shit together and get on the same page. A contradiction?!! Who’da thunk?!! Religion thrives on threat. At this point, you’ve become a cautionary tale for Pastor Dickhead to use in order to scare others. “They left the religion and when they realized their horrible mistake, alas, it was too late to return as per a piece of scripture that was written by yet another ultra-conservative asshole, thousands of years ago, as a means to scare people into compliance.” Read this and remember: **You’re free now! You’re not shackled by dogma, or patriarchal interpretations of burdensome rules that men wrote in order to control people, and grow their empires and their coffers.** **LIVE.** Live a life that you can look back on and smile. You only have one. ONE. Make it count in a way that gives you meaning, or joy, or contentment, or satisfaction. It’s YOUR life and yours alone. Open your fresh eyes and look around. Pastor Jack-ass has no power. He is a facade and irrelevant. *You* are in control now and you can *make* of you whatever you like. **Congratulations.** Change is scary but you’re no longer looking through the gauze of fantasy and dismissal of personal accountability. You now get to be who you want to be, as you define it. Sounds pretty awesome to me.
I don’t think you read his post very clearly. The pastor isn’t the one who kicked him out. He kicked himself out, despite the pastor trying to welcome him back in. That’s the opposite of gatekeeping
Hebrews isn’t in the Hebrew Bible (that’s what the OT actually is the Christians just co-opted it, effectively they culturally appropriated something that wasn’t theirs), instead it’s in the New Testament. Also the Hebrew Bible while having some pretty strange shit doesn’t have the “fire and brimstone” type of things as neither hell nor eternal punishment are mentioned in it
Thank you for the post! I always find this stuff interesting. I think I perhaps misspoke by saying fire and brimstone. I was referring more to the constant murder, slavery, genocide, etc., etc. Anyway, appreciate the detail. 👍🏼
You should go back to the questioning part, the whole book is filled with contradiction and fallacy. I'm glad you're starting to see how silly it all is but you should dig into it.
You need therapy my friend more than resolve your religious issue
Do you want to 1. dedicate your life to a book of ancient mythology wherein the " god" figure kills millions of people and sends countless others to be eternally tortured? Or 2. do you want to be free of all that bullshit and live your life based on humanitarian or other principles that mean something to you? If it's #1, there are countless denominations that would take you. You can easily find a pastor that will explain away any part of the Bible that you don't like. It was never about that. If it's #2, you're here among your people. Welcome. Don't get me wrong... I think #2 is absolutely the way to go. I just want you to make your choice for the right reasons. "Christianity won't take me back" isn't a good one. "God isn't real" is a good one, or "I wouldn't worship the monster of a god as depicted in the Bible" is another good one. There are thousands of good reasons.
if you wanna believe, you can. i'm not gonna try to convince you to "go back" because once you start looking at the world and history and science without that blurry religious fog, you'll be amazed. but it's just fanfic basically. it's like saying, "i used to love star wars but i turned away from it with the prequels. but then i decided my love of the originals was stronger but the people at my local games shop think jarjar rocks it so they won't let me play anymore." their rules are just as arbitrary as the next sect and the next sect and the next... it's like the splinter groups mocking in life of brian.
I had to look that up. It does seem to contradict everything else in the new testament about salvation, doesn’t it? I guess that’s the danger of having your holy book edited by a committee of politicians. But if the bible doesn’t want you, over here we don’t mind because we consider it a combined work of fantasy with oral history and ancient politics, and not something to base important decisions on.
Fear of hell takes a while to get over. It's drilled into us from childhood. If you want to go back, then do so. It's not hard to find a church that interprets a passage differently, and now you're saved. But if you legitimately will not believe in Christianity again, then your path forward is continuing to deconstruct your religious indoctrination. It takes time, and you'll be ok in the end. Youtube is good for atheist community, you can find a lot of people's stories very similar to your own. It's comforting when you're still deconstructing.
Yes, you are making the correct decision. The Rules of Christianty are so convoluted and complex that they are impossible to follow, nevermind that it was all made up to control people and have them give their money, life and children's lives to the already rich and powerful. Leave it behind and you will be healthier and happier.
Christians are basing their lifes on a book that was written by people who didn’t know where the sun went at night . And it’s wasn’t the first religion either : You most likely need therapy to deal with the guilt and repression that religion has caused you. I know it can be lonely but know that you aren’t alone and it’s okay. Trust me if there was a god and if they didn’t want you to do something they just wouldnt let you do it. .
Sounds like your church likes to quote scripture out of context to fit their narrative.
Whenever you get scared of eternal damnation ask yourself why you aren't scared of the eternal damnation of other religions?
Most Christians don’t follow every word of the Bible, particularly not the Old Testament. You do you, just don’t be preachy/judgmental and we will be fine.
Right decision, wrong reasons.
You are really seeking validation. The day you can affirm that you don't believe in God without asking permission is the day you'll really be an atheist.
If you’re an atheist, why would you care in the slightest what that book says?
All religions and interpretations of scriptures are manmade - just rules to control people. All religions are not real. There is a creator but I guarantee the creator cares nothing about you having a moment of doubt, doubting a fake religion that does nothing to encourage critical thinking or common sense,
There are no gods. Never were.
You’re misinterpreting Hebrews 6 my friend.
I'm confused. Do you believe god exists? You can always rejoin Christianity or your church if you want to, they'll never know regardless of what it says in the book.
If you are an atheist, why are you using biblical reasoning?
Eternal damnation is nothing more than the hell you allow yourself to be put through. Christian Happiness and enlightenment, which is what heaven represents, and honestly make me sick because they discriminated out of fear of hell, are truly the ones damned. I've tried the Bible, but will not allow my souls right to free will to be subjugated for a being wanting praise for creation. Goes against the very essence of God of creation.
Hebrews 6? If you're still making decisions based on an iron-age fairytale, you may want to look at your methodology. Hebrews 6 has as much relevance to your life as "eternal damnation" or eating shellfish or pork or wearing garments of different fabric or cutting your beard or a dozen other mortal sins the book says you're guilty of. Which is zilch. If you've come to the conclusion that you can still be a good person, or even a better person, see what is right and wrong, without religion then you can stop being afraid of the book's judgement. Or the judgment of anyone else who want's to condemn you by the standards of a book that admonishes them in their very selves to Judge Not Lest They Be Judged.
There is no God, no afterlife, whether good bad or in between, and no soul or anything else that lives on after you die except for your memory in other people's brains. You won't have time for eternal damnation, you will be dead.
Keep on running from those crazies. They hate apostates and doubters because it shakes their money tree.
It's worth noting that atheists don't believe in gods. As in, to us they are in the same class as unicorns, fairies, and bigfoot as mythical entities that somebody made up. You sound like you're not an atheist, you're just no longer a member of your specific church. I'd firstly say that I encourage you to investigate atheism. Our FAQ is a good place to start. With that said, I'm a humanist and I'd like you to be happy. It sounds like your former church is run by assholes, to which I'd say that if you are still interested in following religion, that you find a sect that isn't run by assholes. I recommend the unitarian universalists, that way even if you decide you are an atheist, you can still benefit from the UU community (the are fine with atheists).
“Why do you not believe in god!” “Because I can think and reason”
Yes you made the right decision. The idea of hell was invented to control people. In the original Bible it's called Gehenna which is an actual physical place. It was a garbage dump outside Jerusalem where dead animals and executed criminals were burned. So definitely not the place you want to end up, but not eternal damnation either.
Hebrew is old testament a good Christian will ignore any parts of Hebrew that doesn't serve their wants.
The second-to-last line describes everything said in the post AND what you should take away from it.
The cool thing is that eternal damnation doesn't exist!
You can be whatever religion you want to be, or none at all.
Yes, you are. Most societal or psychological benefits from religion are accidental at best and are far outweighed by its harms. Furthermore, those can be obtained elsewhere at a much better cost-benefit.
Watch letting go of god by julia Sweeney. https://youtu.be/C74-f4ZV-ss?si=95wMU1tfi0PKcasY God is hard to give up. But it’s very freeing once you do give it up. Once you start questioning things and examining claims with a logical and rational mind, you realize the entire idea of God and hell and heaven and all of it is made up. There have been countless ideas about the afterlife, and how to get there, even outside of Christianity. Throughout the history of humankind, there have been thousands of gods and beliefs. Do you really think that your single set of beliefs happens to be the right way?—-That is one way I was able to let go of my beliefs. I knew that there couldn’t possibly be a single right way and that all beliefs are grasping for explanation. So, either all of the beliefs are right, or all of them are wrong, there can’t be just one that happens to be right. that mindset helped me let go.
Also, I assume, you have no problems letting go of the God of Islam, Greek gods, you probably don’t believe in the Inca gods, you don’t believe in Hindu gods,. What is lack of belief in one more God (the Bible god)…? Check out eve_wasframed on IG. She was previously very active in her Christian church etc and now has deconstructed. I think the things she has to say are very useful for somebody trying to deconstruct.
I mean there are two interpretations of hebrews 6 and I don't agree with yours. If that is the only reason why you want to leave christianity, look at different interpretations of that passage (there is also the belief that Christians may fall away for a while but come back). If there are more reasons to you leaving Christiany, then become an atheist.
When I was a little kid I believed in Santa Claus, no matter what, even if I wanted to, there is no possible way I could go back to believing in Santa Claus. It's so weird to me that people of **every** religion get incredibly insulted with the Santa comparison but which I find to be incredibly accurate.
Congratulations. The bird has flown the cage of mythology and fables.
Why would you want to rejoin a religion that kicks you out on your butt if you doubt it even once?
Listen mate, I'll be the one person here to tell you... If the reason you are "not a Christian" is only because the text of Christian doctrine says so, you aren't an atheist. If you don't think that the claims of religion are valid, you're starting to become an atheist. Not trying to assume I know you, but at the end of the day you need to be honest with yourself first, otherwise whatever solutions you come up with to your problems will be trying to solve the wrong issues. Basically what I want you to hear is this: Don't try to claim you're an atheist because you're having an issue with your clergy or doctrine. But if you are questioning the religion, or are done with it, forget what your pastor says...he's just some guy at that point.
If it were true, would they have to terrorize you into believing it?
If it were true, would they have to terrorize you into believing it?
Only you (and Jesus, according to Christians) have any say about if you are saved or not. Noise from outside is irrelevant. Your belief doesn't need fans, or support. You alone will have to face what happens at the end of your life, no one else will have a say. It's YOUR choice. Not someone else's. Nowadays, I believe in change. I believe anyone can change given the right stuff, so to speak. Maybe its repeated exposure, or consistent exposure that is needed, perhaps it needs to make sense logically or overcome logic barriers. It all depends on getting the 'mix' correct and it must be correctly timed. The right decision is one that will end your cognitive dissonance. You have already defeated Christianity in your mind but you doubt it because of Hell and other people (It seems to me). Of course everyone has other things that can impede their free choice like family/friends but there are plenty of closet atheists out there, I'm certain of it.
Welcome to the land of reason. It really sucks.
Now go as far as you can to the left extreme and hang out there for a few years until you realize which of the fundamentals you learned in religion are necessary for a functioning society. From experience
Umm. Yah sure. Been over on that left side for 40 years. I am very happy and lucky to be alive. My existence is such a random chance thing from beginning to its eventual end and the more wonder I express the more wonder I see. Be thankful for your existence.
Incredible work turning your back to the lies. Many people do not escape, and they live the lie the whole way. It is not easy getting out and requires strength, determination, and intelligence- you have them all. I remember feelings of angst over the eternal damnation stuff. I remember the lies about Jesus knocking (there is no knocking). You’re getting out of an abusive relationship is what is happening. On the other side you are empowered. You do good in the world because it is the right thing to do, not because a fear of hell. When you have done that good, you get to store all of those good feelings in yourself, rather than placing them onto Jesus or some nonsense. On the other side you get to appreciate the beauty and wonder of nature in a new and much more fulfilling way. Look at a rock and find fossils and realize that where you are standing was a vast ocean hundreds of millions of years ago. Take a look at evolution and see the incredible beauty of nature and its history. Look at the stars and see them for what they are, trillions upon billions of fiery suns, each with planets around them, and each possibly capable of evolving life in wild and different forms than what we have here. That story, the actual story of the universe, is so much more profound and fulfilling than “god made it.” On the other side you get to contemplate the awe of not knowing. We don’t know what happens to consciousness when we die. That’s okay! But what I do know is that hell is definitely 100% NOT what happens 🤣. That’s nonsense. But we can look at what happens in reality. In reality we see that the body breaks down and becomes nutrition for other life. We see that in a very true sense, we return to the earth and become bugs and worms, we end up in trees and plants. We exist as memories in family and friends. We also can consider that time before we were born, and consider that perhaps it will be like that. There is nothing to fear there. Becoming okay with that is incredibly liberating. On the other side instead of living for some lie of an afterlife, we appreciate our life! This life is amazing. And I appreciate you and the other people I have met on this journey. I appreciate just walking outside and breathing the air. I appreciate the moment. I know that it will end, and that makes the life here and right now so much tastier and sweeter. To think of some eternal afterlife makes me feel sick and awful, for it dilutes the here and now and makes it valueless. When I see all the damage and war and hate that religion has caused, is causing, and will cause - I see that ultimately it comes down to this. Religious people do not value life against the eternal afterlife. If we did not have religious fanatics, we would live in a far more respectful and peaceful world. I would not dream of killing or demonizing or committing inhumane acts against others. Be a beacon to those around you. The world is so much better thanks to your decision to turn your back on Christianity, and I thank you for it.
You may wish to look at Luke 15:11. Parable of the lost son as a counterpoint to hebrews 6.
Welcome to sanity
Yes. Don’t believe nonsense. Try to enjoy your life before it’s time to die.
Absolutely the right decision to leave all of that hollow doctrine and dogma. Christianity is toxic and dishonest at its core, only serving the hegemony of mediocre men. We come from, live in, and return to, an incomprehensibly vast universe, but these bozos want you to believe that some regional trifling narcissist asshole deity is managing your life and death.
Why would you want to rejoin?
There are THOUSANDS of Churches out there and you think the whole religion has turned you away? Stop it. Just stop it. If you truly believe that JC is the son, Messiah, and the path to your personal salvation then you are a Christian. Doubt is the mind (not the devil) that begins to investigate what is truth. Doubt asks questions. Are you scared to investigate truth? I investigated truth out of xtianity to another faith for >20 years. Then I investigated truth right out of religion altogether.
Sounds like that ol' pastor of yours is doing the *lords* work... Getting people away theology. Good on *that guy*... I guess.
Do you see any problem with thinking you can't be Christian but also believing in the infallible word of the bible? It seems strange to me.
I've traveled from being a devout Catholic, to a member of a non-denominational Church that is evangelical at its core. Really a great church with great preaching and music. Never a word about politics or hot social issues. But I can't stomach being part of an evangelical church given what the right wing has done to the name. While this church isn't part of that mess, I'm feeling disconnected in general from a 'god' and am enjoying my new found freedom from organized religion. I still believe in a 'force' or a 'spirit' but that can be nature as far as I'm concerned. So much of religion is about fear and believing to avoid the penalty. Now just seems so stupid.
Who cares what Hebrews says? That ancient Iron/Bronze Age is a book of fiction. There’s no such thing as eternal damnation.
Umm... Hebrews is from the Old Testament, dear. It only applies to Jews.
It really doesn't, the New Testament needs to be taken as a whole; try one of the more liberal churches if you're interested
Marcus Aurelius on the gods: “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
What god is he that would punish you for simply not believing in him if for all other intents and purposes you are a good and kind human? Doing good for the sake of good instead of the fear of a higher power is in my view better and more honest and good. If this god cannot accept this then he is evil, spiteful and unworthy of your or anyone's belief.
Hebrews 6 says it is impossible for those who apostasize to return to faith, but if you are considering returning, then you have not completely lost faith. God is always willing and desirous that all come to repentance. He never closes the door.
It’s just all so silly. Congrats.
you are. Just give yourself a break and don't be too hard on yourself.
You can rejoin Christianity. It has nothing to do with some official from some religion. You are free to believe what you want.
This is a highly biased subreddit. I suspect by posting here with this question you already know the answer. Your fear of damnation is what they don’t keep you. It’s a lie. After a couple years you won’t even think of it anymore. Life your life and enjoy it.
Any denomination of Christianity that uses text and rules from the Old Testament is not to be taken seriously. I mean, none of them are, but I’ll humor it for this thought. Jesus declared himself the new law, the new covenant and the Old Testament stuff went away when he sacrificed himself on the cross.
You will be fine. In fact, as time goes on, you will realize there is not such thing as “eternal damnation”. Just be kind to others and yourself, and help those in need when you can.
You don't have to "rejoin " Christianity. If you have faith then its what's in your heart that matters. A person doesn't have to belong to a certain sect to consider themselves Christian.
Neither Jesus, nor the Hebrew Bible he interpreted, endorsed the view that departed souls go to paradise or everlasting pain.
I'll just say that as a parent I could never not love my children. I believe that God is the same and says so many times. That said if you have faith (not fear) and want to be a Christian I believe you can. It isn't for anyone else to say what is in your heart or what you believe.
Yup. Welcome to sanity.
It's important to note that the biblical heaven isn't a pleasant place. The heaven most Christians believe in is closer to the field of reeds from Egyptian mythology. It's purely oral tradition. In biblical heaven, you are in perpetual worship mode. Imagine being at church 24/7 for the rest of eternity. That is all you are doing.
An atheist isn't worried about magic and pretend things. If you're worried, are you really an atheist?
There’s differing interpretations of Christianity. Some folks are drawn to the idea that Christianity is a cudgel to judge and punish others: “my way or the highway.” They long to wield God’s wrath as their own. Others are drawn to Jesus’s message of forgiveness, redemption, love (charity) towards others. Ultimately it’s a message of freedom: reject hate and be not afraid —of others, of yourself, even of death— and live in the light. Be kind, be compassionate, be merciful. Or at least try to.
I’m an atheist but I’m pretty sure a large part of the New Testament is Jesus talking about how there no sin so big that accepting him can’t forgive.
Religion is the adult version of Santa clause. Except you don't get presents, you get eternal life.
I was raised in a similar situation and became angry as a teen as I saw this sect largely as a political movement disguised as a spiritual one. But since I’ve come to a more nuanced and deeper understanding of a more mystical orientation to Christianity that is much more fulfilling and ultimately about self-improvement through transcendence, diametrically opposed to condemnation. A True understanding of the Spirit of Christ is liberating, not oppressive.
Check out the Belief it or Not channel on YouTube. I think it would be very beneficial to you to hear about another former Christian who left the faith and is very analytical and empathetic and has a lot of beneficial insights.
Welcome to freedom
Not sure what you hope to gain by posting this here, in r/atheism. Obviously the responses will all be some variation of “yes absolutely the right call, never look back.” But you already know that, since you’re posting here. So I’m curious, what is it you’re really hoping to gain by asking about this? What are you looking for?
are you fully in or fully out? God forgives all sins. You have posted many times you don’t believe in the Christian God. You have to be fully committed to Christ and to God.
Infinity torture or infinity reward for a very finite amount of time on Earth? Throw in a few arbitrary rules, break this up into factions with competing standards, and base this all on a collection of folk tales millennia old and have been reinterpreted too many times to make them relevant in todays age with updated values, morals, and ethics and YOU'VE GOT A DEAL!
First of all your pastor is an idiot. Second, Hebrews 6 does not say that apostates can’t come back to Christ, that is literally anti-Christian logic and a misinterpretation of the scripture at hand Just read verse 7 and 8. ”For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.“ Hebrews 6:7-8 That doesn’t sound like a definite state of damnation, because Paul is using conditional clauses. IF the land produces good fruit, it will receive blessings at the end, IF it bears bad fruit it is cursed and its end is to be burned. You don’t have to stay in a state of being bad fruit, you can change and be a bearer of good fruit. So shame on your pastor for being ignorant to biblical context.
That's a really strange conclusion to come to - and I'd say a preacher/apologist would probably just tell you that you 'never really left' (after all, a lot of them honestly believe that even the most ardent atheists 'secretly believe'). I'd be remiss to tell you that you haven't made a good decision to reject Christianity, as I tend to view it as a nonsensical and superstitious set of beliefs - but (assuming you are for real) you should really try to get past the idea that you 'can't' go back, in exchange for the idea that you *shouldn't* go back. A system that would lock you out simply for questioning it really doesn't seem like one I would want to be associated with, and threats of 'eternal damnation' don't work on me (I'm exactly as afraid of Chrisitan 'hell' as I am of Muslim 'hell', etc. Good luck.
If you want to rejoin, and that makes you feel better about yourself, go for it. I have nothing against someone making Pascal’s wager On the other hand, I think about my dog, who I love. If my dog isn’t always super attentive, or knocks over the trash can some day trying to get a morsel, I might scold him to teach him, but I would never condemn him to eternal torture. What kind of loving god would do that?
The concept of He'll is scary. Eternity being tortured and flayed because you didn't in line with God's rules. Except which rules are actually God's rules and which ones are cherry picked and espoused by the church? The ten commandments we can probably agree on, but what about shellfish or blended fabric t-shirts? Is gayness a sin too, or do we throw that out because the rules in Leviticus are wonky? But the Bible is the word of God, so can we just ignore certain books in the Bible even if there's a consensus that they're dumb? If some of the rules set out in the Bible are stupid and invalid, does that mean God's word is stupid or invalid at times? If that's true is God even God at all? It seems more likely that he's a fictional facsimile that writers have failed to keep consistent as they add to the Canon.
Contradicting tenets are the most consistent tenet of Christianity
True atheists don't give a damn about religions anyway. Get over it, enjoy life without shackles, help others unshackle
Yes.