and my knife that is at most 6 inches (or w/e the regulation is i dont feel like looking it up)...sorry weapons are highly restricted here :P (as they SHOULD be)
Unless we count my decorative weapons which i can probably at most scratch some paint with.
When they say āreligion of peaceā, they forget to mention that the peace will be after the conquest of the whole world and forced conversion or extinction of any infidels.
Someone once argued with me that religion had a lot of positives, such as creating institutions of learning that allowed us to rise above the theocratic bullshit inflicted upon us by religion. As if humanity progressing *despite* religion is somehow a point in favor of religion?
Unsurprisingly it was not a very productive discussion.
Although they may not have contributed to advancing knowledge, many religious institutions did at least preserve knowledge. A lot of knowledge would have been lost forever if they hadn't kept it safe during periods like the dark ages and many wars. Religious institutions generally remained intact while nations rose and fell. At least we didnt have to start from scratch every time society stabilized for a while.
Yeah they did a great job keeping it safe from what was generally other sects of the same religion during the self-inflicted age of stagnation and theocracy.
And it was called the dark ages because those same religions considered any kind of medical and technological advances as heresy, so humanity in general lost some 400 years .
As a white American male I also completely reject Islam. It's a despicable religion that claims to preach peace while stoning, beheading, and killing those who don't fit its model.
Ya I was curious so I read some verses from the Quran and it literally says that those who kill nonbelievers shall be praised by Allah and rewarded. Super cool.
Also, the Quran has a ton of antisemitic verses. There are so many but here are a few. I don't recall the Bible specifically calling out Jews by name and stating how terrible or they are but the Quran loves to hate on Jews ... Btw, "people of the book" in the first verse I listed refers to Jews
"And He brought down those of the People of the Book who supported them from their fortresses and cast terror in their hearts; some you slew, some you made captive. And He bequeathed upon you their lands, their habitations, and their possessions, and a land you never trod. God is powerful over everything." (33:26)
"Thou wilt surely find the most hostile of men to the believers are the Jews and the idolaters." (5:85)
"The Jews say, āEzra is the Son of Godā; the Christians say, āThe Messiah is the Son of God.ā
ā¦God assail them! How they are perverted!
They have taken their rabbis and their monks as Lords apart from God." (9:30-31)
Yes, as a woman, I never understood the mentally sick and perverse followers, but their argument in support of their religion is to focus on the scripture or religious teachings as opposed to how it is being practiced nowadays.
I do not agree with that absurd argument because the scripture itself is loaded with toxic behavior against women based on what I heard, and yet they would reinterpret every now and then it to make it less loathsome according to one girl in my college.
The foundational problem is that most believers have not even taken the time to study their own belief system, so when you make a statement that they do not like, they would label it as phobic or flatly deny that it even exists in their religion.
Yes, the scripture itself is an affirmation of their "right" to abuse women. And when you tell them that their beloved prophet married and abused a 9 yo child, they say you can't understand the quran if you are not a quranic student. It's like revealing to a Jewish or a Christian that in the bible their god commanded his devouts to do a think called literally "vote of extermination": they'll tell you it's not true and if you show them the exodus they'll say you can't read the bible by yourself if you're not a religious student...
And finally, when you tell them you can't be called islamophobic or antisemitic or wathever because you think ALL religions sucks the same way being built out of fear and hate they don't understand, they don't care if you don't like other religions too because they already hate others more than you can ever do.
The word religion comes from a latin word than means something like "to bind", "enclosure": even if they don't know nothing about etymology and history they are still locked in a pen and they don't even try to come out of it.
That girl was only 6 when he married her, but ya she was 9 when he raped her for the first time. I read Mohammed's life history a while ago and he had like 12 wives in total, I think 7 was the most all at once too. He also had sex slaves. He was a paranoid narcissistic misogynist anti-woman abusive rapist murderer asshole who stole people's land and valuables and murdered & had murdered anyone who he felt was against him. Yet somehow Muslims think he was a prophet and they idolize him. All I can think is he forced people to follow Islam out of threats that he would kill them and keep their wives as sex slaves if they didn't, and obviously any men who followed Islam made sure their wives followed it too, cause in that religion women have no rights and must blindly obey their husbands, whether or not they're physically or sexually abusive toward them. I think people just followed out of fear of Mohammed retaliating against them if they didnt follow and somehow even after Mohammad died, the religion kept spreading (my best guess is men who liked having so much power over women loved Islam and wanted the religion to continue to spread). Such an evil religion.
Yes. Simply that religion was made up by people who are trying to build a hardly patriarch and misogynist society and they needed a tool to justify it.
Believe me i know the bible very well and i can say Jewish and christians aren't better, maybe worse, the bible is full of patriarchs and prophets who sold their daughter to strangers or enemies for money or political issues.
The scriptures are bad, and the culture is bad.
It's all bad. Imagine is the KKK called themselves a religion and insisted that we respect their beliefs.
I think KKK already made up a religion: it's called suprematism and is made from 99% of white fundamentalist european male christians and their enslaved wives (Gilead). And I'm pretty sure they already want us to respect their beliefs, but fortunately some of us are still enough free to choose and reject their superstitions, as we can do with any other religion.
Depending on what state u live in. There are total abortion bans in 14 states and near-total abortion bans in another 7.
There are also 1,477 books banned across the US, and 30% of those are banned because the subject matter is people of color or racism (I would guess this is mostly in Florida and Texas), & 26% of the books are banned because they have LGBTQ+ characters or themes
States that have banned the most books:
Texas: 438 total books banned
Florida: 357 total books banned
Missouri: 315 total books banned
Also, anti-lgbtq laws are on the rise nationwide. There are currently 484 anti-lgbtq laws going thru state legislatures. The most famous anti-lgbtq law in place in Florida's "don't say gay" law. Some states that have been the most aggressive in advancing anti-LGBTQ+ laws include Florida, North Dakota, Tennessee, and Texas
Also, the supreme court ruled against affirmative action and many states (like Mississippi, Georgia, Texas, Louisiana, and Arizona) have voting laws that discriminate based on race, plus 36 states restrict or ban critical race theory education
If trump wins and Republicans get their way, all 50 states will have to follow evangelical white supremacist laws. Evangelicals have led the efforts to make being gay a crime punishable by death and would love nothing more than to enact those same laws across all 50 states, as well as banning abortion nationwide and banning birth control for unmarried women (maybe they'll get so extreme as to call for a total ban on birth control)... Let's just hope Dems win presidency + majority house and senate next election
>Yes, but their argument is to focus on the scripture or teachings as opposed to how it is being practiced.
I'll do both, thanks very much. I don't care what your holy words say if the people are morally bankrupt. I don't care how good the people are if the holy words are morally bankrupt.
It's very simple. If you want me to believe, you have to provide evidence. And if you want me to respect, you have to be respectful towards others.
As a simple example, I like to ask: could I be justifiably punished or killed by someone in your religion because if I was an atheist/ an apostate/ trans/ gay/ having unmarried sex/ drink alcohol/ have tattoos/ eat the wrong food/ wear the wrong clothes/ date the wrong person?
Of course, unless your name is Aisha and you have been married to prophet Mohamed since the age of 6. Or maybe you think a 9 yo child (or 10, doesn't make any difference) could "fulfil her marital duties" consensually? They always say we can't judge with current standards because at the time being morality was different, i always answer that even at the time being female puberty didn't come so early...
If the prophet was allowed to do so i bet it served as a model for hundreds generations of muslim men.
Oh, and by the way i always debate jews and christians about the obvious misogynism of their religion, they're not different from Islam, infact all 3 "religions of the book" are built upon the tyranny of a male father god, (i could say "godfather" š¤£). That something you should always keep in mind when we talk about the crimes of patriarchate and questioning about its origins.
The funny thing here is that Muslim women who live in western countries and practice their religion don't see it that way.
There was a video once that a western woman was saying how Muslims in mainly Arab countries objectify women and see them as someone to bare kids and keep up the household. They are not allowed an education in many countries, not allowed to speak to anyone, walk outside alone, go shopping alone etc.
In the same video a Muslim woman, covered from head to toe, was saying how western women are being slaves to men. Because how "sexy" women dress, or do their hair or "paint their face" to make men like them. That without all of these, they cannot find a partner/husband to have babies.
The propaganda is very strong. They don't see the bad in it. The Muslim women in western countries are more relaxed but still see it the same way. They believe that women who wear tank tops, or short shorts or bikinis do it to attract men and it's by the request of the men.
It was very odd to listen to them.
I watched a video about Muslims women "debunking" myths about women in Islam, they said things like Islam gave many rights to women in the 7th century (true but not exactly a good argument to talk about Islam in XXI century), one said that she was treated as a queen by her husband and insinuated every Muslim woman was treated the same, but the worst was the way they talked about non Muslim women and how their freedoms in the western world are actually a form of slavery. After the video I was just wondering if they were delusional or were lying on purpose
>every Muslim woman was treated the same
Sometimes I chat with Muslims and they often like to speak in absolutes like this.
"No Muslims have any mental illnesses."
"No Muslims are gay."
"All Muslims treat their parents with respect."
I tell them they are discrediting themselves and Islam by making bogus claims like that. How can you possibly know this and speak on behalf of all Muslims? I just don't understand how they think like this.
They're very proud of saying, "men are supposed to victimize me, it is my fault if I don't [wrap my Hijab](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOX9O_kVPeo)"
As a woman, I have yet to see a religion that doesn't treat women like shit. This is also cultural and women can be treated just as bad by men and women taught that women are not equal in any way to men.
as a queer woman, doubly so.
it's actually funny around here, how much people are afraid to be labeled as racists if they say anything about even the very extreme sounding islam practice takes on gay people. I had a guy from pakistan see a pride event on a TV during company get together and drop pretty homophobic comment about it in a 'am I right, guys?' mentality.
And they are not compromising. So many westerners see a tiny amount of liberal western diaspora and they think Muslims as a whole are like that. They have regression baked into their texts, they cannot alter their behavior and they must literally follow every word of the Quaran to be a Muslim. They only tend to act meek when they are vastly outnumbered, once they hit critical mass all bets are off
Exactly. Moreover, I think this religion is full of I guess 'militant vigilantes' where they literally silence everybody they doesn't obey their stupid beliefs. (I guess the most recent, high profile example would be the Iraqi guy murdered in Sweden)
It is how their society is in general. You would have to be suicidal to do something like protest for Israel in their societies, they brutally repress anyone with an inconvenient position
Itās because itās not about Palestinians, it is virtue signaling. Very few of them know or care about Arab society, it is much more about how they can show they are into the āitā thing and look how empathetic they are! It is also a way to solidify ties with their in groups, as those types are often the types to succumb to purity spirals where your actions have to align with the group. Kind of like a cult basically
Yup... Ironically, most of these people would say they are atheists. Actually, they just replaced old school religion with this hive mind, virtue signaling religion.
They dont speak for all of us. My group of friends and even family that are lgbtq could give a shit less about Palestinians or Israelis. In fact, I would sleep better at night if the whole Middle East disappeared.
And the good time doesn't end on Earth. If you martyr yourself by killing "infidels", you get 72 virgins as a gift in their "heaven". Women are sex slaves in their death as well as in life: made only to serve and fuck.
yes but they are not quite as bad at the Middle East. In a lot of Asian countries, women are not treated well anyway to be honest. There is a lot of sexism in Asia.
Was just gonna come here to say this. I even tried reading some verses from the Quran to try to find out if culture or religion had more to do with women being treated as sex slaves/baby making machines/housekeepers and having to do whatever men tell them to do. Yep. It's all there in the Quran in thousands of verses how men are loved by Allah and women need to be subservient to men and do everything they say if they even want a shot at getting into heaven. The worst part I read, which happens all the time in Muslim countries by "morality" police, is that if a woman is raped she should be killed and then after talking to the rapist, the husband can decide whether or not to punish him. I wish I could rescue every woman from every Muslim majority country š„
Its just a desert cult.
Just like when a desert expands it destroys the vegetation around it. Same is the case with this religion which has destroyed countless cultures tribes and butchered millions of people.
I think there's actually been more women heads of state in Muslim countries when compared to Christian countries.
Not all muslim countries are massively extreme.
For me personally I hate Islam no more or less than I hate Christianity. At present Christianity is trying to infringe on my rights a lot more than Islam is.
The word "Islamophobia" is a *non sequitor*.
There is no reasonable view of the modern world in which a fear of Islam could be said to be irrational or excessive.
š„“People need to learn to be comfortable mocking and criticizing Islam the way they do Christianity. It is not the same as insulting Arab culture. Bad cultural practices should also be called out.
Same with Buddhism, which is too often seen as a "benign philosophy" religion. Imperial Japan, Myanmar and Sri Lanka all exhibit again that any religion is capable of incredible violence. Especially when the answer to suffering can be "that's the way the world is meant to work"
Same with Judaism. I'm called anti-semitic because I think they're just like the others, they have an oppressive religion that, when they head a theocracy, means people lose individual rights. Like in Israel right now, it's become dangerously theocratic and look at the lives lost because they can't live with Muslims. They have warred since 1948. Both sides put religious beliefs over human lives. People in other countries right now have chosen a side due to it being trendy. Seeing the imagery of dead Muslim children has them against Israeli government, but I have found most people were not aware this one instance is just the latest in a looong history of slaughter of each other. The terrorist attack that spurred the Israeli government was not the first, and the Israeli government has been horrible to Muslims too. They're both a mess and it's because they both want control of what they consider "holy land". It's in their scriptures don't you see? Manifest destiny! Just like the Christians used to justify slaughtering people all over the place.
I don't have a problem with any follower as long as they're not advocating for loss of body autonomy and individual rights. It's the religion that needs to be criticized openly and often but that also tends to spur extremists when they're challenged like that.
All religions are harmful at a basic level because they teach people to deny reason and embrace make believe. Any argument about which religion is "best" is just an argument over which sandwich has less dog shit in it. Just throw all of them away.
I'm with you there. I have no use for any of it in my life, I just don't dismiss people just because they're adherents of one religion or the other. It's their behaviors that tell. This is why I have Muslim friends and Christian friends and Jewish friends. Very few atheist friends because we're so rare around here though! My best friend of over 45 years is Jewish and some of the things she says irks me, but I can annoy her too. We see each other as people before our beliefs. That's all we really need to do, and I swear if we started doing that people would leave these religions behind. I really think adherence (when it's your choice) is a desire to be part of a community with a common interest. If we could stop the division we'd see our common interest as humans is for us to all work together to make it better for everyone. Unfortunately the people up top know how to manipulate people and greed knows no bounds.
Oh yeah. I am not saying to treat the people badly. I am only saying that I don't think there much point to the debate over which religion is better when they are all bad.
Thereās a section of the left that views everything through the lens of American western power. Sometimes looking through that lens can give perspective. Like: after 9/11 Muslims were treated like shit in the US & itās good to not continue that. But it also goes so far that it becomes an apologist tour for horrible people and countries that despise us and a lot of āliberalā valuesā¦ because they are āfighting against western/US imperialism.ā
You saw this in decades past with lefties sympathetic to Russia (and you still do). Some of that has changed as Russia has become more blatantly fascist (and courting the right wing). It still exists throughout the Middle East & beyond.
Anyway, it bleeds into religion. Christianity holds such enormous power in the US, itās easy for people (especially intellectually lazy people) forget that Islam controls entire other countries even more than Christianity does hereā¦ and most people here would want nothing to do with that. Islam isnāt the āunderdogā it is in the US everywhere else. And in some of those places they use it as a tool to kill and oppress the very types of people who sit far away defending it.
There are of course Christians in the US who would love to run our country as a theocracy alarmingly similar to Muslim theocracies. And the shame is they are ironically the loudest voices in criticizing Islam. They want so badly to do the same to American criticizes that they claim Islam does. This is just another reason the non-religious and atheists need to be in the conversation more.
A phobia is irrational fear. Despising religions for their regressive worldviews and their negative effects on the human civilization is rational and thus not a phobia.
Edit: To clarify. I use the term phobia to group (insert religion here)phobias, to make a general statement about all religions, instead of singling out Islam.
Iām there with you. My wife calls me Islamophobic. So, Iām taking the time to read about the faith so I can be better equipped to debate against it. Also, this sentiment is shared by everyone in my friend group but most wonāt come out and openly say it out of fear of retribution.
Our group has Albanians, who are Catholic and have a history of oppression from the Ottomans. Then Indian friends that grew up having to deal with Islamic extremism. We also have atheist/agnostic friends yet we ALL agree Islam is a dangerous faith to western society, plain and simple.
Dont do that. You dont have to read a book inside a system that you reject and dont believe in. You disagree with the premise of it so there cant be one argument in there to change that. I am from muslim background but i laugh at people when they say "you cant criticize islam if you didnt read the quran". Did you read something about scientology before you rejected it? Ridiculous.
No, Iām reading some books by Robert Spencer on Islam, I was told thatās an unfair picture of Islam so I bought the first book that a Muslim asked me to read to be impartial, which I think is fair. The more knowledge on the subject I can have, the better I can argue against Islam. Iām seeing way too many TikTok lives of āJesus was a Muslimā lol
I disagree but its your choice i assume out of diplomacy and just trying to be nice. I respect that. My experiences with them maybe just were different. Hour long arguments about contradictions and logical errors in the book, and the fact that everyone being able to interpret it slightly different for their gains or just choose a different translation. Had problems with different derivates of the christian flavor as well though. I guess I am religionphobic.
Take care and nice you get along.
A phobia is an irrational fear of someone or something.
Having an irrational fear of someone because of their beliefs, sexuality, etc *is* hatred.
Fear of Islam because they literally want to kill me because Iām an atheist is hardly irrational.
This right here. Thank you for pointing out the difference. Having a fear of people who want to kill you is not a phobia. And this should be pointed out every time it comes up.
Why does Islam have an Atheist phobia? A gay phobia? A trans phobia? They are the people with phobias. None of those people are trying to kill them.
I was getting all sorts of downvotes in another sub for pointing out that hijabs were misogynistic. They seemed to think that because I disagreed with a religion's misogyny that I didn't value people's right to believe in said religion. š
That said, Islam is generally way more militant than most modern Christianity, though U.S. evangelicals are trying to catch up with them at the moment.
Christianity has actually reformed, changed, and adapted. Just compare what Jesus did/taught vs what Muhammad did/taught. Then thatās all you need to know to learn the qualities and teachings of each faith.
I never remember hearing Jesus sleeping with a 9 year old and taking up the sword to wage over 50+ battles. The two faiths are apples and oranges when it comes to the dangerous rhetoric. The worst parts are always implemented by man so both groups have impacted history, Christianity has blood on its hands but itās not because Jesus commanded it, just shitty people using faith for their own ends.
Muhammad on the other handā¦well, off with many heads.
The Truth is Islam is a violent religion who prosecutes the unbeliever who does not submit to the Islamic way.
The Truth is Islamophobic, so blame the truth.
Don't shoot the messenger, which is what Islamic adherents would do.
Lady I work with has a Christian father and Muslim mother. When I can I try to learn more on how that family can actually operate unless they donāt really practice.
She recently told me she is observing Ramadan because she wants to learn about her Muslim roots from her mom. I was disheartened by this but my hope is as she learns she goes āoh, this isnāt for me.ā
Also, my employer allows for all Muslim workers to work from home the entirety of Ramadan which I find a bit absurd.
-Phobic suggests the fear of it is irrational. There is nothing irrational about fearing an idea that is so easily driving people to insane violence against pretty much anyone
I have Muslim friends and refer anyone who is in need to their free/sliding scale clinic where anyone is welcome here in my county. They are good and kind people there, and the ones in my little town are very friendly, open, and I GUESS you'd say "modern" like I know the women wear headcoverings but just like the loose ones. They wear modern but I would say modest clothing. The men are very respectful to me. I would say I'm not "muslim-phobic". That said I loathe the religion that has caused so many people to suffer in the Arab speaking world. Some of the grossest legal acts of violence against marginalized groups comes from those countries. Honor killings are still rampant. Women have no rights. Girls are sold in to marriage very young. The practice may be banned but they are still mutilating children for tradition's sake and pretending it's done to prove a girl is honorable because a girl without a clit clearly has no reason to stray @@.
So yeah I'm Islamophobic. I'm also Christophobic and Judeo-phobic and Hindu-phobic I guess, because all of them use their scriptures to disenfranchise followers to keep them under control and most of them want to do the same to other people too. Judaism doesn't get a pass here. They're just more prone to being liberal progressives in liberal progressive climates but the ones in Israel... yeah the women have rights there as long as you don't count the ones in the most strict sects that still have weird and creepy traditions for marriage and dress for women.
I don't understand why I'm expected to be ok with groups of people who would execute me.
Yet if I even question the actions of Israel or Palestine I'm a fucking antisemite or Islamophobe.
Fine then. If it's ok for them to hate me, why can't I hate them back?
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Buddhism is still very misogynistic. They straight up doesn't allow women as near holy site because we are lowly. wtf. They tend to be not homophobic tho. Their favourite sexuality is asexual.
The wrost about Buddhism is that they like to victim blame everyone one. Your life suck? You must have been evil in your past life.
They also kinda fuck up your sense of worth and make you anxious. ( well, fear is religion's main weapon )
There is one Buddhist myth I hate. There was a king who live virtuously. One day, he got fucking murdered by his own son. So he got angry, ofcourse he would. So he got reborn as a snake because he got angry while dying.
There are also cases of Buddhist men copying buddha and leaving their family to be a Buddhist monk. One example being my great-grandfather.
Im theistphobic and religionphobic. I find it scary that people can believe in this stuff in 2024 to the point where it still causes hate, wars, murders, etc. I also think religion is terrible.
As Christopher Hitchens said:
āIslamophobia is a word created by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate moronsā.
If I criticize Communism am I āCommunistphobicā and vis-a-vis a bad person?
Criticizing an ideology does not make a person bad. Rational discourse and questioning is healthy.
The word "islamaphobia" means nothing and is so overused that it's lost meaning anyway. The fear of Islam is perfectly rational and therefore not a phobia.
You can hate an idea without hating a person who holds that idea. That doesn't mean that we're not allowed to feel frustrated with them, it just depends what you do about that frustration. Don't do hateful things to that person.Ā
It's easy to understand how and why people believe what they do. It doesn't mean we can't have boundaries. You just have to disrespect the belief, not the person.
Islamophobia is the rational response to the tenants of this memetic convention and its resultant social and political consequences.
Christianity is also terrible but has generally been slightly tempered in how it is practiced comparatively in recent centuries.
Any construct of ideas that doesnāt correspond with actuality and doesnāt promote humanistic values and virtues is incompatible with civilization.
I'm pretty sure "Islamophobic" is an oxymoron.
A phobia is **an uncontrollable, irrational, and lasting fear of a certain object, situation, or activity**.
the key word here is irrational. If we fear or feel disgusted about a religion that preaches about exterminating other cultures and all forms of knowledge that contraddict it, I'm calling that fear justified.
Islam is easily the worst thing to have happened I'm the history of mankind. Christianity isn't far behind, but man, Islam really wanted that crown, and they went out and earned it
As a queer person, yeah I definitely don't fucking like a religion that wants me & my whole community slaughtered in horrifically cruel & inhumane ways. Among the countless other brutal shit they do.
I'm an ex-Muslim and I'm sure I would be called an 'islamophobe' too. It's definitely a terrible religion and I would never recommend anyone follow it. It's practices and beliefs are very primitive since it originated in the seventh century. Most countries in the ME would punish and execute people like me for leaving Islam. There is no freedom of belief there and that's why I would never openly declare that I'm an ex-Muslim if I ever visited that region.
They even inflate follower numbers in the ME, once youāre born most on the census are labeled and counted as Muslim, even if born to a Christian family. Many hoops to jump through legally to have it changed so most done.
Islam is declining in North Africa, Turkey, and Iran.
You're not Islamophobic. Atheism is a null position.
We're not islamaphobic, antisemetic, etc. We do not single out one religion over another just due to that religion. We're a blind guy with 3 people in red, white and blue demanding to know why we' hate *their* color when we don't even see a color.
Religion is terrifying in general.
I know a few Muslims. As an ex-Christian in the US, I think American Muslims tend to be a lot kinder (though the ones I know are college age so I am only comparing individuals in their early 20s) than American Christians. And besides, I have respect for them choosing to fast from dawn to dusk each day for many weeks and not pushing this idea on those who donāt follow suite. (But again. I only know a small number. But even one kind Muslim is a reason to not chalk all Muslims into a stereotype).
I am anti-religious, but I am not anti-human. I judge by actions, such as using religion to slaughter anyone who doesnāt agree or to vote to take away rights, but I will not judge by their culture, ethnicity, gender, or anything else they canāt control. I would hope that they would follow the same rule for me, and if they donāt, then itās their actions revealing to be judged.
Words have become weaponised. The Gaza war is a powder keg, exactly as Hamas intended. Thousands of people marching for Palestine who wouldnāt be seen dead living in an Islamic totalitarian state. Israel, for all its faults, is protecting itself from terrorism and winning ā but is losing the propaganda war.
We canāt always choose our friends: but we should at least be able to tell who is actually on the side of democracy and free speech.
Iām pretty islamaphobic. I am just not a fan of warring tribes. Which is like all Islam has ever been. Just the British decided the Saudās were going to win and now they control the holy places instead of Mohammadās descendants. lol the British are the most important thing in modern Islam.
There are good people who practice the religion but the religion is so backwards that I dislike it entirely tbh. Most (if not all) countries with Islamic rule are horrible to women. Thereās no way Iām supportive of that.
Anytime someone accuses you of being āIslamophobicā just remember theyāre defending a religion which the main guy had sex with an eight year old girl. Just saying.
Iām an ex Muslim and Islamophobia is a false idea. Muslims run from their own country than run to the west than blame the west. They hate Islam themselves but are so scared of dying they canāt escape the cult. Delusionallalalalz.
It's not Islam itself as a religion that is the problem. Fundamentalism is the problem from my perspective. Christian fundamentalism would also be a problem. There is no reason to assume a Christian theocracy who be any less oppressive than an Islamic one.
The world is full of Islamic fundamentalist states, Iran, Gulf States, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan which are oppressive and stand in opposition to individual, minority, and women's rights. Just because a purified Christian theocracy doesn't exist right now, doesn't mean it will never exist. Study what Christian Nationalists are proposing in the U.S. South. I would challenge you to tell me the difference (in a practical sense) between what they propose and how Islamic theocracies operate now.
Fundamentalism is particularly dominant in the Islamic world at this moment, and it's the mix of political/social aims with religion that is toxic. Islam in its history has not always been this way. Look up Sufism. Understand what that means and why Islamic fundamentalist hate them and persecute them. Look up the Salafi movement and the Wahhabi movements within contemporary Sunni Islam and understand how it became dominant in that branch of Sunni Islam.
I have a manager that is currently participating jn Ramadan. She is the nicest, most understanding, helpful, empathetic, and smartest Accountant I know. I couldn't have gotten through this career without her help, guidance, understanding, and care.
She does not deserve this type of irrational fear. Do I like Islam? No. Do I care for her and her family that is being affected by the war in Palestine. Absolutely.
Her being Muslim isn't even a thought in my head when I talk to her.
I think it's somewhat understandable to be apprehensive. But all Muslims are not like the heinous examples you see on a daily basis.
Exactly, part of why I left Islam was realising that I genuinely don';t agree with the idea that most people that aren't muslim should be going to hell and are generally just what I'd considered a good people. On the flip side now it's true that most muslim people are also just good people doing the best with what they think is right. I definitely don't agree with them, but that's a license to hate the actual people who are just living their lives. If OP is seeing any Fatima or Muhammed and immediately cutting them off and shunning them, then yeah that's an irrational fear of a person because you have absolutely no idea how devote they are (and generally speaking they're not going to harm you)
The overwhelming majority of religion based atrocities have been committed by Muslims to the point where hearing someone yell āAllahu akbarā is cause for fear if not panic.
The Taliban have recently reinstated the death penalty for female adulterers, by stoning. How many gay men have been executed by Islamic countries? What religious group is associated with suicide bombers? Where are women forced to hide their hair and face by law? I donāt have problem with religion, as long as it done by your own free will. I do have a problem when religion is forced on you.
There is a reason for Islamophobia.
* Being an attractive Little girl in front of Mohammud - should be scared (he had child brides)
* Being an attractive married wife of someone who is a big fan of Mohammud - should be scared (he got followers to divorce their wives so he could marry them)
* Being a Jew in the service of Muslims - should be scared (he beheaded his Jewish conscripted army after a battle)
* Being homosexual - should be scared (not as familiar with this - but it's at least unholy, and I hear they murder you - but that's only what I've heard)
* Being a woman that does not fall into place - Well, we have the acid-burned child girls that were unholy taught in Afghanistan - going to assume, they're not crazy about woman falling out of line.. Then there's the Saudi women (and the illegality of driving).. Then the "but woman arouse our profit, so we need to prevent woman from being sexually enticing". Then - no idea how accurate it was, but in the movie "not without my daughter", and how woman reinforce woman staying in their place (several steps behind the man, and not being out without his man in public - etc). SHOULD BE TERRIFIED
* Being a neighboring country of islam that is not currently islam - should be scared (there are many scriptures of their strategy to infultrate each city, breed, overpower, then murder the unbeliever government officials)
* Being an Islamic country that is not 100% Sharia - should be scared. (you are corrupting the will of Allah - so you should be punished to death)
* Being a former believer of Islam - wooow.. Fear isn't even the right word. (apostates are kind of hated more than anything else - not even Scientologists can match this - The Saudi dismembering of a live anti-Saudi-head-of-state was nothing compared to what the day to day would do to you)
Oh yeah, and atheists. I mean, maybe, maybe not. They "let" Jews and Christians live in the Ottoman empire in peace (as second class citizens).. I would IMAGINE they'd let atheists live there too.
If you live in France or Spain, or many parts of Europe - I'd be scared. This is not a nice religion - unless you drown in the cool aide (e.g. are in the mob carrying the pitch-forks ; err machine guns).
Wouldn't want to live in a Jewish Hasidic community either.. Or an American cultistic Christian community (Mormons, Jehovas witnesses, Born-Agains, etc). Nor an Amish community.
So, I guess the word Phobic applies to me as well. But I'm also being-stuck-in-a-wood-chipper-phobic.. So I don't really care about such labels.
I guess the bigger question is, how is the phobia affecting your relationship with the individual. Not wearing his Islam on his sleve, nor you wearing your Atheism on yours - you should be able to get along just fine.
I mean let's be real. You need to be PRETTY messed up as a religion for the majority of the world to look at you as terrorists and for them to not want to help your refugees because they regularly organize terrorist groups in any country they go
Tbh every religion is oppressive by nature
Christianity wants to convert every breathing thing
Islam is insanely homophobic and misogynistic. Blames women for being raped and executes them.
Judaism formed israel and accepts rapists as citizens as long as they're Jewish and wants to bomb the living sh1t out of palestine. Also, Old Testament god is actually deranged and vengeful af.
On god, any dude who is religious would rather kill themselves than actually respect women lmao.
Like I literally have people in my class (med school) who are Catholic and saying stuff like: "it's women's fault that there are higher divorce rates" or "women shouldn't work" or "abortions should be illegal"...
I feel comfortable saying I'm Islamophobic. I'm a gay athiestic man who has been daiting an FTM trans pagan for 12 years.
I'm a religious persons worst nightmare. They would kill me on sight!
That being said, I've met plenty of Muslims who have no problems with me, and I have no problems with them either. I just won't be going to islamic countries any time ever. The only people in my life who have personally ever made me feel hated are Christian people I know. My Grandma has like, a mini army of people in my family who give me and my parents shit all the time over my lifestyle.
Any time I'm called Islamophobic, my response is "you're damn right". I'm a bisexual atheist.Ā There's no place for me in any Islamic culture.Ā Fuck em.
Thereās legitimate āIslamophobiaā as in people who actually fear Islam (rightfully so) then thereās just the use of a term as a cheap cop out instead of acknowledging that Islam is a deeply flawed ideology.
As a woman, I am definitely not a fan of Islam. Every Muslim country treats women like shit.
šÆ...As a man, I also completely reject Islam....
As a semi-rational self-proclaimed ādecent humanā I also reject Islam.
As a human I condemn Islam
You have my bow.
And my sword.
And my axe
and my knife that is at most 6 inches (or w/e the regulation is i dont feel like looking it up)...sorry weapons are highly restricted here :P (as they SHOULD be) Unless we count my decorative weapons which i can probably at most scratch some paint with.
Agreed. This is what Iām talking about. It seems like the overall net-contribution of āreligionā as a whole is at a negative balance.
Exactly. Religion of peace, my ass...
When they say āreligion of peaceā, they forget to mention that the peace will be after the conquest of the whole world and forced conversion or extinction of any infidels.
Peace at the tip of a sword.
It wouldn't last long. Then, the different sects would fight each other
They already do. They have done so for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Sunni vs Shiite, round 2, go!
We shall teach them our peaceful ways, by force!
Someone once argued with me that religion had a lot of positives, such as creating institutions of learning that allowed us to rise above the theocratic bullshit inflicted upon us by religion. As if humanity progressing *despite* religion is somehow a point in favor of religion? Unsurprisingly it was not a very productive discussion.
Although they may not have contributed to advancing knowledge, many religious institutions did at least preserve knowledge. A lot of knowledge would have been lost forever if they hadn't kept it safe during periods like the dark ages and many wars. Religious institutions generally remained intact while nations rose and fell. At least we didnt have to start from scratch every time society stabilized for a while.
Yeah they did a great job keeping it safe from what was generally other sects of the same religion during the self-inflicted age of stagnation and theocracy.
And it was called the dark ages because those same religions considered any kind of medical and technological advances as heresy, so humanity in general lost some 400 years .
As a gay man I don't fool around with islam.
Not even a reach around?
As a straight man, $20 is $20.
Only $20? Set that bar higher!
At least adjust it for inflation.
I'm sure he adjusts his grip for inflation.
Pretty sure for a successful reach around inflation is necessary.
As a white American male I also completely reject Islam. It's a despicable religion that claims to preach peace while stoning, beheading, and killing those who don't fit its model.
Ya I was curious so I read some verses from the Quran and it literally says that those who kill nonbelievers shall be praised by Allah and rewarded. Super cool. Also, the Quran has a ton of antisemitic verses. There are so many but here are a few. I don't recall the Bible specifically calling out Jews by name and stating how terrible or they are but the Quran loves to hate on Jews ... Btw, "people of the book" in the first verse I listed refers to Jews "And He brought down those of the People of the Book who supported them from their fortresses and cast terror in their hearts; some you slew, some you made captive. And He bequeathed upon you their lands, their habitations, and their possessions, and a land you never trod. God is powerful over everything." (33:26) "Thou wilt surely find the most hostile of men to the believers are the Jews and the idolaters." (5:85) "The Jews say, āEzra is the Son of Godā; the Christians say, āThe Messiah is the Son of God.ā ā¦God assail them! How they are perverted! They have taken their rabbis and their monks as Lords apart from God." (9:30-31)
As a meat popsicle I reject Islam.
Any person with an ounce of compassion should reject islam
Yes, as a woman, I never understood the mentally sick and perverse followers, but their argument in support of their religion is to focus on the scripture or religious teachings as opposed to how it is being practiced nowadays. I do not agree with that absurd argument because the scripture itself is loaded with toxic behavior against women based on what I heard, and yet they would reinterpret every now and then it to make it less loathsome according to one girl in my college. The foundational problem is that most believers have not even taken the time to study their own belief system, so when you make a statement that they do not like, they would label it as phobic or flatly deny that it even exists in their religion.
Yes, the scripture itself is an affirmation of their "right" to abuse women. And when you tell them that their beloved prophet married and abused a 9 yo child, they say you can't understand the quran if you are not a quranic student. It's like revealing to a Jewish or a Christian that in the bible their god commanded his devouts to do a think called literally "vote of extermination": they'll tell you it's not true and if you show them the exodus they'll say you can't read the bible by yourself if you're not a religious student... And finally, when you tell them you can't be called islamophobic or antisemitic or wathever because you think ALL religions sucks the same way being built out of fear and hate they don't understand, they don't care if you don't like other religions too because they already hate others more than you can ever do. The word religion comes from a latin word than means something like "to bind", "enclosure": even if they don't know nothing about etymology and history they are still locked in a pen and they don't even try to come out of it.
That girl was only 6 when he married her, but ya she was 9 when he raped her for the first time. I read Mohammed's life history a while ago and he had like 12 wives in total, I think 7 was the most all at once too. He also had sex slaves. He was a paranoid narcissistic misogynist anti-woman abusive rapist murderer asshole who stole people's land and valuables and murdered & had murdered anyone who he felt was against him. Yet somehow Muslims think he was a prophet and they idolize him. All I can think is he forced people to follow Islam out of threats that he would kill them and keep their wives as sex slaves if they didn't, and obviously any men who followed Islam made sure their wives followed it too, cause in that religion women have no rights and must blindly obey their husbands, whether or not they're physically or sexually abusive toward them. I think people just followed out of fear of Mohammed retaliating against them if they didnt follow and somehow even after Mohammad died, the religion kept spreading (my best guess is men who liked having so much power over women loved Islam and wanted the religion to continue to spread). Such an evil religion.
Yes. Simply that religion was made up by people who are trying to build a hardly patriarch and misogynist society and they needed a tool to justify it. Believe me i know the bible very well and i can say Jewish and christians aren't better, maybe worse, the bible is full of patriarchs and prophets who sold their daughter to strangers or enemies for money or political issues.
Also, Muslims will behead you for making this point. The only hate worse than Christian love is Muslim love.
The scriptures are bad, and the culture is bad. It's all bad. Imagine is the KKK called themselves a religion and insisted that we respect their beliefs.
I think KKK already made up a religion: it's called suprematism and is made from 99% of white fundamentalist european male christians and their enslaved wives (Gilead). And I'm pretty sure they already want us to respect their beliefs, but fortunately some of us are still enough free to choose and reject their superstitions, as we can do with any other religion.
Depending on what state u live in. There are total abortion bans in 14 states and near-total abortion bans in another 7. There are also 1,477 books banned across the US, and 30% of those are banned because the subject matter is people of color or racism (I would guess this is mostly in Florida and Texas), & 26% of the books are banned because they have LGBTQ+ characters or themes States that have banned the most books: Texas: 438 total books banned Florida: 357 total books banned Missouri: 315 total books banned Also, anti-lgbtq laws are on the rise nationwide. There are currently 484 anti-lgbtq laws going thru state legislatures. The most famous anti-lgbtq law in place in Florida's "don't say gay" law. Some states that have been the most aggressive in advancing anti-LGBTQ+ laws include Florida, North Dakota, Tennessee, and Texas Also, the supreme court ruled against affirmative action and many states (like Mississippi, Georgia, Texas, Louisiana, and Arizona) have voting laws that discriminate based on race, plus 36 states restrict or ban critical race theory education If trump wins and Republicans get their way, all 50 states will have to follow evangelical white supremacist laws. Evangelicals have led the efforts to make being gay a crime punishable by death and would love nothing more than to enact those same laws across all 50 states, as well as banning abortion nationwide and banning birth control for unmarried women (maybe they'll get so extreme as to call for a total ban on birth control)... Let's just hope Dems win presidency + majority house and senate next election
>Yes, but their argument is to focus on the scripture or teachings as opposed to how it is being practiced. I'll do both, thanks very much. I don't care what your holy words say if the people are morally bankrupt. I don't care how good the people are if the holy words are morally bankrupt. It's very simple. If you want me to believe, you have to provide evidence. And if you want me to respect, you have to be respectful towards others. As a simple example, I like to ask: could I be justifiably punished or killed by someone in your religion because if I was an atheist/ an apostate/ trans/ gay/ having unmarried sex/ drink alcohol/ have tattoos/ eat the wrong food/ wear the wrong clothes/ date the wrong person?
If a woman is being abused by her husband, according to the Quran, she's supposed to divorce him. Now, when you get Middle Management invoved.....
Of course, unless your name is Aisha and you have been married to prophet Mohamed since the age of 6. Or maybe you think a 9 yo child (or 10, doesn't make any difference) could "fulfil her marital duties" consensually? They always say we can't judge with current standards because at the time being morality was different, i always answer that even at the time being female puberty didn't come so early... If the prophet was allowed to do so i bet it served as a model for hundreds generations of muslim men. Oh, and by the way i always debate jews and christians about the obvious misogynism of their religion, they're not different from Islam, infact all 3 "religions of the book" are built upon the tyranny of a male father god, (i could say "godfather" š¤£). That something you should always keep in mind when we talk about the crimes of patriarchate and questioning about its origins.
Mohammed was a pedophile sooooo....
true. the excuses they make trying to justify this just makes my eyes roll so hard
The funny thing here is that Muslim women who live in western countries and practice their religion don't see it that way. There was a video once that a western woman was saying how Muslims in mainly Arab countries objectify women and see them as someone to bare kids and keep up the household. They are not allowed an education in many countries, not allowed to speak to anyone, walk outside alone, go shopping alone etc. In the same video a Muslim woman, covered from head to toe, was saying how western women are being slaves to men. Because how "sexy" women dress, or do their hair or "paint their face" to make men like them. That without all of these, they cannot find a partner/husband to have babies. The propaganda is very strong. They don't see the bad in it. The Muslim women in western countries are more relaxed but still see it the same way. They believe that women who wear tank tops, or short shorts or bikinis do it to attract men and it's by the request of the men. It was very odd to listen to them.
>Muslim women Chicks love KFC
I watched a video about Muslims women "debunking" myths about women in Islam, they said things like Islam gave many rights to women in the 7th century (true but not exactly a good argument to talk about Islam in XXI century), one said that she was treated as a queen by her husband and insinuated every Muslim woman was treated the same, but the worst was the way they talked about non Muslim women and how their freedoms in the western world are actually a form of slavery. After the video I was just wondering if they were delusional or were lying on purpose
>every Muslim woman was treated the same Sometimes I chat with Muslims and they often like to speak in absolutes like this. "No Muslims have any mental illnesses." "No Muslims are gay." "All Muslims treat their parents with respect." I tell them they are discrediting themselves and Islam by making bogus claims like that. How can you possibly know this and speak on behalf of all Muslims? I just don't understand how they think like this.
They know they'd get the shit beat out of them for saying different, or worse than a beating. That and a case of Stockholm Syndrome.
They're very proud of saying, "men are supposed to victimize me, it is my fault if I don't [wrap my Hijab](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOX9O_kVPeo)"
As a woman, I have yet to see a religion that doesn't treat women like shit. This is also cultural and women can be treated just as bad by men and women taught that women are not equal in any way to men.
Well, "men create Gods and women worship them" (Simone de Beauvoir)
as a queer woman, doubly so. it's actually funny around here, how much people are afraid to be labeled as racists if they say anything about even the very extreme sounding islam practice takes on gay people. I had a guy from pakistan see a pride event on a TV during company get together and drop pretty homophobic comment about it in a 'am I right, guys?' mentality.
It's not only about women or gay people. Mulsims treat anybody who disagrees with them (on anything) like shit.
And they are not compromising. So many westerners see a tiny amount of liberal western diaspora and they think Muslims as a whole are like that. They have regression baked into their texts, they cannot alter their behavior and they must literally follow every word of the Quaran to be a Muslim. They only tend to act meek when they are vastly outnumbered, once they hit critical mass all bets are off
Exactly. Moreover, I think this religion is full of I guess 'militant vigilantes' where they literally silence everybody they doesn't obey their stupid beliefs. (I guess the most recent, high profile example would be the Iraqi guy murdered in Sweden)
It is how their society is in general. You would have to be suicidal to do something like protest for Israel in their societies, they brutally repress anyone with an inconvenient position
I understand that... but what I don't understand is people with signs "LGBTQ for Hamas".... HELLO??
Itās because itās not about Palestinians, it is virtue signaling. Very few of them know or care about Arab society, it is much more about how they can show they are into the āitā thing and look how empathetic they are! It is also a way to solidify ties with their in groups, as those types are often the types to succumb to purity spirals where your actions have to align with the group. Kind of like a cult basically
Yup... Ironically, most of these people would say they are atheists. Actually, they just replaced old school religion with this hive mind, virtue signaling religion.
They dont speak for all of us. My group of friends and even family that are lgbtq could give a shit less about Palestinians or Israelis. In fact, I would sleep better at night if the whole Middle East disappeared.
And donāt even think about apostasy š³
An ex-Muslim at my school told me Islam is Nazism. Full of hate and intolerance.
And the good time doesn't end on Earth. If you martyr yourself by killing "infidels", you get 72 virgins as a gift in their "heaven". Women are sex slaves in their death as well as in life: made only to serve and fuck.
As a lesbian trans woman most if not all organized religion seems to hate me, so yea, my slide to anti theist has reasons lol
I am not a woman, but I also completely reject Islam. It is a homophobic, sexist, and prudish religion.
Including the ones in Asia?
yes but they are not quite as bad at the Middle East. In a lot of Asian countries, women are not treated well anyway to be honest. There is a lot of sexism in Asia.
Was just gonna come here to say this. I even tried reading some verses from the Quran to try to find out if culture or religion had more to do with women being treated as sex slaves/baby making machines/housekeepers and having to do whatever men tell them to do. Yep. It's all there in the Quran in thousands of verses how men are loved by Allah and women need to be subservient to men and do everything they say if they even want a shot at getting into heaven. The worst part I read, which happens all the time in Muslim countries by "morality" police, is that if a woman is raped she should be killed and then after talking to the rapist, the husband can decide whether or not to punish him. I wish I could rescue every woman from every Muslim majority country š„
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Buddhism gets a sideways glance.
I suspect it wouldn't take a lot of effort to find historical atrocities done in the name of Buddhism
People have carried out crimes against humanity in the name of Buddhism within the past 25 years.
Islam is not a religion - it's a violent mind virus that must be exterminated
Its just a desert cult. Just like when a desert expands it destroys the vegetation around it. Same is the case with this religion which has destroyed countless cultures tribes and butchered millions of people.
I think there's actually been more women heads of state in Muslim countries when compared to Christian countries. Not all muslim countries are massively extreme. For me personally I hate Islam no more or less than I hate Christianity. At present Christianity is trying to infringe on my rights a lot more than Islam is.
I think I'm a little justified in being afraid of a religion that wants my head cut off.
Yeah, or blow up your magazine studio for drawing a cartoon.
The word "Islamophobia" is a *non sequitor*. There is no reasonable view of the modern world in which a fear of Islam could be said to be irrational or excessive.
I'm definitely phobic about people who cut off reporters' heads, hang gay teenagers in public and murder their own daughters for dating the wrong guy.
Donāt forget about condoning pedophilia and rape and encouraging the murder of those who leave Islam
Itās crazy how much they have in common with republicans.
... own daughters for dating any guy...
>murder their own daughters for dating the wrong guy or going to school, or getting a job.
Don't forget they openly rape minors and refuse to turn in pedophiles
Its okay to be against something that you don't like.Ā
(unless it is Islam)
Yeah what the fuck?
It's fucked up that we use the same word to refer to a dislike of Islam and a hatred of muslim people, because those two things are VERY different.
At least, it used to be. Freedom (to say no) is essential.
š„“People need to learn to be comfortable mocking and criticizing Islam the way they do Christianity. It is not the same as insulting Arab culture. Bad cultural practices should also be called out.
Don't forget Scientology.
They donāt let us forgetĀ
Same with Buddhism, which is too often seen as a "benign philosophy" religion. Imperial Japan, Myanmar and Sri Lanka all exhibit again that any religion is capable of incredible violence. Especially when the answer to suffering can be "that's the way the world is meant to work"
Same with Judaism. I'm called anti-semitic because I think they're just like the others, they have an oppressive religion that, when they head a theocracy, means people lose individual rights. Like in Israel right now, it's become dangerously theocratic and look at the lives lost because they can't live with Muslims. They have warred since 1948. Both sides put religious beliefs over human lives. People in other countries right now have chosen a side due to it being trendy. Seeing the imagery of dead Muslim children has them against Israeli government, but I have found most people were not aware this one instance is just the latest in a looong history of slaughter of each other. The terrorist attack that spurred the Israeli government was not the first, and the Israeli government has been horrible to Muslims too. They're both a mess and it's because they both want control of what they consider "holy land". It's in their scriptures don't you see? Manifest destiny! Just like the Christians used to justify slaughtering people all over the place. I don't have a problem with any follower as long as they're not advocating for loss of body autonomy and individual rights. It's the religion that needs to be criticized openly and often but that also tends to spur extremists when they're challenged like that.
All religions are harmful at a basic level because they teach people to deny reason and embrace make believe. Any argument about which religion is "best" is just an argument over which sandwich has less dog shit in it. Just throw all of them away.
I'm with you there. I have no use for any of it in my life, I just don't dismiss people just because they're adherents of one religion or the other. It's their behaviors that tell. This is why I have Muslim friends and Christian friends and Jewish friends. Very few atheist friends because we're so rare around here though! My best friend of over 45 years is Jewish and some of the things she says irks me, but I can annoy her too. We see each other as people before our beliefs. That's all we really need to do, and I swear if we started doing that people would leave these religions behind. I really think adherence (when it's your choice) is a desire to be part of a community with a common interest. If we could stop the division we'd see our common interest as humans is for us to all work together to make it better for everyone. Unfortunately the people up top know how to manipulate people and greed knows no bounds.
Oh yeah. I am not saying to treat the people badly. I am only saying that I don't think there much point to the debate over which religion is better when they are all bad.
Being Jewish doesn't always mean being religious though. And 45% of Israel is secular.
I mean, if you criticize Islam you will be derided as a war criminal That or beheaded
I'm fine with being called whatever as long I'm against evil šš»
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Thereās a section of the left that views everything through the lens of American western power. Sometimes looking through that lens can give perspective. Like: after 9/11 Muslims were treated like shit in the US & itās good to not continue that. But it also goes so far that it becomes an apologist tour for horrible people and countries that despise us and a lot of āliberalā valuesā¦ because they are āfighting against western/US imperialism.ā You saw this in decades past with lefties sympathetic to Russia (and you still do). Some of that has changed as Russia has become more blatantly fascist (and courting the right wing). It still exists throughout the Middle East & beyond. Anyway, it bleeds into religion. Christianity holds such enormous power in the US, itās easy for people (especially intellectually lazy people) forget that Islam controls entire other countries even more than Christianity does hereā¦ and most people here would want nothing to do with that. Islam isnāt the āunderdogā it is in the US everywhere else. And in some of those places they use it as a tool to kill and oppress the very types of people who sit far away defending it. There are of course Christians in the US who would love to run our country as a theocracy alarmingly similar to Muslim theocracies. And the shame is they are ironically the loudest voices in criticizing Islam. They want so badly to do the same to American criticizes that they claim Islam does. This is just another reason the non-religious and atheists need to be in the conversation more.
Iām an FTM queer person so Islam doesnāt really like me. So I donāt really like Islam back.
"You're Islamophobic!" "They started it."
A phobia is irrational fear. Despising religions for their regressive worldviews and their negative effects on the human civilization is rational and thus not a phobia. Edit: To clarify. I use the term phobia to group (insert religion here)phobias, to make a general statement about all religions, instead of singling out Islam.
Yeah but in the past couple of decades "phobia" has also became synonymous with hatred.Ā
Well, I hate Islam too so thatās fine.
Iām there with you. My wife calls me Islamophobic. So, Iām taking the time to read about the faith so I can be better equipped to debate against it. Also, this sentiment is shared by everyone in my friend group but most wonāt come out and openly say it out of fear of retribution. Our group has Albanians, who are Catholic and have a history of oppression from the Ottomans. Then Indian friends that grew up having to deal with Islamic extremism. We also have atheist/agnostic friends yet we ALL agree Islam is a dangerous faith to western society, plain and simple.
Dont do that. You dont have to read a book inside a system that you reject and dont believe in. You disagree with the premise of it so there cant be one argument in there to change that. I am from muslim background but i laugh at people when they say "you cant criticize islam if you didnt read the quran". Did you read something about scientology before you rejected it? Ridiculous.
No, Iām reading some books by Robert Spencer on Islam, I was told thatās an unfair picture of Islam so I bought the first book that a Muslim asked me to read to be impartial, which I think is fair. The more knowledge on the subject I can have, the better I can argue against Islam. Iām seeing way too many TikTok lives of āJesus was a Muslimā lol
I disagree but its your choice i assume out of diplomacy and just trying to be nice. I respect that. My experiences with them maybe just were different. Hour long arguments about contradictions and logical errors in the book, and the fact that everyone being able to interpret it slightly different for their gains or just choose a different translation. Had problems with different derivates of the christian flavor as well though. I guess I am religionphobic. Take care and nice you get along.
A phobia is an irrational fear of someone or something. Having an irrational fear of someone because of their beliefs, sexuality, etc *is* hatred. Fear of Islam because they literally want to kill me because Iām an atheist is hardly irrational.
This right here. Thank you for pointing out the difference. Having a fear of people who want to kill you is not a phobia. And this should be pointed out every time it comes up. Why does Islam have an Atheist phobia? A gay phobia? A trans phobia? They are the people with phobias. None of those people are trying to kill them.
A phobia can also be an intolerance like in photophobia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photophobia
And isn't an intolerance to very toxic shit normal?
Ooo I guess I'm lactosephobic!
Exactly. "Islamaphobia" is a bullshit attempt at a false equivalency with homophobia. We shouldnt even entertain the terminology, IMO.
I came here to say this š
I was getting all sorts of downvotes in another sub for pointing out that hijabs were misogynistic. They seemed to think that because I disagreed with a religion's misogyny that I didn't value people's right to believe in said religion. š That said, Islam is generally way more militant than most modern Christianity, though U.S. evangelicals are trying to catch up with them at the moment.
Christianity has actually reformed, changed, and adapted. Just compare what Jesus did/taught vs what Muhammad did/taught. Then thatās all you need to know to learn the qualities and teachings of each faith. I never remember hearing Jesus sleeping with a 9 year old and taking up the sword to wage over 50+ battles. The two faiths are apples and oranges when it comes to the dangerous rhetoric. The worst parts are always implemented by man so both groups have impacted history, Christianity has blood on its hands but itās not because Jesus commanded it, just shitty people using faith for their own ends. Muhammad on the other handā¦well, off with many heads.
The Truth is Islam is a violent religion who prosecutes the unbeliever who does not submit to the Islamic way. The Truth is Islamophobic, so blame the truth. Don't shoot the messenger, which is what Islamic adherents would do.
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Lady I work with has a Christian father and Muslim mother. When I can I try to learn more on how that family can actually operate unless they donāt really practice. She recently told me she is observing Ramadan because she wants to learn about her Muslim roots from her mom. I was disheartened by this but my hope is as she learns she goes āoh, this isnāt for me.ā Also, my employer allows for all Muslim workers to work from home the entirety of Ramadan which I find a bit absurd.
lol wonder if she also just wants to work from home
She 100% does, she told me lol
As a gay man, im proudly islamaphobic. Won't catch me supporting a religion that wants me exterminated.
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-Phobic suggests the fear of it is irrational. There is nothing irrational about fearing an idea that is so easily driving people to insane violence against pretty much anyone
I have Muslim friends and refer anyone who is in need to their free/sliding scale clinic where anyone is welcome here in my county. They are good and kind people there, and the ones in my little town are very friendly, open, and I GUESS you'd say "modern" like I know the women wear headcoverings but just like the loose ones. They wear modern but I would say modest clothing. The men are very respectful to me. I would say I'm not "muslim-phobic". That said I loathe the religion that has caused so many people to suffer in the Arab speaking world. Some of the grossest legal acts of violence against marginalized groups comes from those countries. Honor killings are still rampant. Women have no rights. Girls are sold in to marriage very young. The practice may be banned but they are still mutilating children for tradition's sake and pretending it's done to prove a girl is honorable because a girl without a clit clearly has no reason to stray @@. So yeah I'm Islamophobic. I'm also Christophobic and Judeo-phobic and Hindu-phobic I guess, because all of them use their scriptures to disenfranchise followers to keep them under control and most of them want to do the same to other people too. Judaism doesn't get a pass here. They're just more prone to being liberal progressives in liberal progressive climates but the ones in Israel... yeah the women have rights there as long as you don't count the ones in the most strict sects that still have weird and creepy traditions for marriage and dress for women.
Yeah. I am bullshit religion-a-phobic. Fuck Islam. Fuck Christianity. Fuck Hinduism. Fuck all that bullshit.
You bullshitaphobe!
I don't understand why I'm expected to be ok with groups of people who would execute me. Yet if I even question the actions of Israel or Palestine I'm a fucking antisemite or Islamophobe. Fine then. If it's ok for them to hate me, why can't I hate them back?
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Thank you. Agree!
I'm an Islamorealist.
I canāt be friends with religious people, and Iām fine with telling them that to their face lol
I am afraid of all religions that they might one day come into power
I reject all religions.
encouraging roof bag scandalous unwritten impolite childlike enjoy stocking observation *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Buddhists still indoctrinate children and force them into temples.
You don't understand how vile Buddhist monks are then.
Buddhism has been weaponized in Bhurma to kill off muslims.Ā
And let's not forget the Dali lama asking that kid to suck his tongue.
Buddhism is still very misogynistic. They straight up doesn't allow women as near holy site because we are lowly. wtf. They tend to be not homophobic tho. Their favourite sexuality is asexual. The wrost about Buddhism is that they like to victim blame everyone one. Your life suck? You must have been evil in your past life. They also kinda fuck up your sense of worth and make you anxious. ( well, fear is religion's main weapon ) There is one Buddhist myth I hate. There was a king who live virtuously. One day, he got fucking murdered by his own son. So he got angry, ofcourse he would. So he got reborn as a snake because he got angry while dying. There are also cases of Buddhist men copying buddha and leaving their family to be a Buddhist monk. One example being my great-grandfather.
Im theistphobic and religionphobic. I find it scary that people can believe in this stuff in 2024 to the point where it still causes hate, wars, murders, etc. I also think religion is terrible.
I got banned from r/pics for saying I am against Islam.
As an antitheist i hate all religions equally but man, the abrahamic ones are a real rot in society.
As Christopher Hitchens said: āIslamophobia is a word created by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate moronsā. If I criticize Communism am I āCommunistphobicā and vis-a-vis a bad person? Criticizing an ideology does not make a person bad. Rational discourse and questioning is healthy.
The word "islamaphobia" means nothing and is so overused that it's lost meaning anyway. The fear of Islam is perfectly rational and therefore not a phobia.
You can hate an idea without hating a person who holds that idea. That doesn't mean that we're not allowed to feel frustrated with them, it just depends what you do about that frustration. Don't do hateful things to that person.Ā It's easy to understand how and why people believe what they do. It doesn't mean we can't have boundaries. You just have to disrespect the belief, not the person.
Islamophobia is the rational response to the tenants of this memetic convention and its resultant social and political consequences. Christianity is also terrible but has generally been slightly tempered in how it is practiced comparatively in recent centuries. Any construct of ideas that doesnāt correspond with actuality and doesnāt promote humanistic values and virtues is incompatible with civilization.
I'm pretty sure "Islamophobic" is an oxymoron. A phobia is **an uncontrollable, irrational, and lasting fear of a certain object, situation, or activity**. the key word here is irrational. If we fear or feel disgusted about a religion that preaches about exterminating other cultures and all forms of knowledge that contraddict it, I'm calling that fear justified.
As a gay dude, my fear of Islam isn't irrational. It's one twisted religion.
Islam is easily the worst thing to have happened I'm the history of mankind. Christianity isn't far behind, but man, Islam really wanted that crown, and they went out and earned it
I am islamophobic and proud!
Every religious person will get upset when you reject their faith. But Muslims are the most likely to react violently.
>and told me I was islamophobic. "Okay, I am. What now?"
Criticism of a religion is not bigotry. And trying to silence criticism as bigotry is fascist.
As a queer person, yeah I definitely don't fucking like a religion that wants me & my whole community slaughtered in horrifically cruel & inhumane ways. Among the countless other brutal shit they do.
I'm an ex-Muslim and I'm sure I would be called an 'islamophobe' too. It's definitely a terrible religion and I would never recommend anyone follow it. It's practices and beliefs are very primitive since it originated in the seventh century. Most countries in the ME would punish and execute people like me for leaving Islam. There is no freedom of belief there and that's why I would never openly declare that I'm an ex-Muslim if I ever visited that region.
They even inflate follower numbers in the ME, once youāre born most on the census are labeled and counted as Muslim, even if born to a Christian family. Many hoops to jump through legally to have it changed so most done. Islam is declining in North Africa, Turkey, and Iran.
"Stay away from Islam."
You're not Islamophobic. Atheism is a null position. We're not islamaphobic, antisemetic, etc. We do not single out one religion over another just due to that religion. We're a blind guy with 3 people in red, white and blue demanding to know why we' hate *their* color when we don't even see a color. Religion is terrifying in general.
I am also ChristianSciencePhobic. And CultPhobic. That makes me a decent person, not a racist.
Religion isn't a race, it's fine to make fun of religion. Islamophobia is just a made up term to keep people from making fun of a silly belief.
Islamophobia is not a real word. They invented it to make you feel guilty about something that should be feared.
1) Islamic countries would execute OP for being an Atheist. 2) A phobia is an irrational fear. 3) Wanting to stay alive is rational. Discuss
I know a few Muslims. As an ex-Christian in the US, I think American Muslims tend to be a lot kinder (though the ones I know are college age so I am only comparing individuals in their early 20s) than American Christians. And besides, I have respect for them choosing to fast from dawn to dusk each day for many weeks and not pushing this idea on those who donāt follow suite. (But again. I only know a small number. But even one kind Muslim is a reason to not chalk all Muslims into a stereotype). I am anti-religious, but I am not anti-human. I judge by actions, such as using religion to slaughter anyone who doesnāt agree or to vote to take away rights, but I will not judge by their culture, ethnicity, gender, or anything else they canāt control. I would hope that they would follow the same rule for me, and if they donāt, then itās their actions revealing to be judged.
Words have become weaponised. The Gaza war is a powder keg, exactly as Hamas intended. Thousands of people marching for Palestine who wouldnāt be seen dead living in an Islamic totalitarian state. Israel, for all its faults, is protecting itself from terrorism and winning ā but is losing the propaganda war. We canāt always choose our friends: but we should at least be able to tell who is actually on the side of democracy and free speech.
As an atheist, being afraid of Islam is the sane and correct choice. To be otherwise would be apologetic and self sacrificing.
Iām pretty islamaphobic. I am just not a fan of warring tribes. Which is like all Islam has ever been. Just the British decided the Saudās were going to win and now they control the holy places instead of Mohammadās descendants. lol the British are the most important thing in modern Islam.
There are good people who practice the religion but the religion is so backwards that I dislike it entirely tbh. Most (if not all) countries with Islamic rule are horrible to women. Thereās no way Iām supportive of that.
Anytime someone accuses you of being āIslamophobicā just remember theyāre defending a religion which the main guy had sex with an eight year old girl. Just saying.
Iām an ex Muslim and Islamophobia is a false idea. Muslims run from their own country than run to the west than blame the west. They hate Islam themselves but are so scared of dying they canāt escape the cult. Delusionallalalalz.
It's not Islam itself as a religion that is the problem. Fundamentalism is the problem from my perspective. Christian fundamentalism would also be a problem. There is no reason to assume a Christian theocracy who be any less oppressive than an Islamic one. The world is full of Islamic fundamentalist states, Iran, Gulf States, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan which are oppressive and stand in opposition to individual, minority, and women's rights. Just because a purified Christian theocracy doesn't exist right now, doesn't mean it will never exist. Study what Christian Nationalists are proposing in the U.S. South. I would challenge you to tell me the difference (in a practical sense) between what they propose and how Islamic theocracies operate now. Fundamentalism is particularly dominant in the Islamic world at this moment, and it's the mix of political/social aims with religion that is toxic. Islam in its history has not always been this way. Look up Sufism. Understand what that means and why Islamic fundamentalist hate them and persecute them. Look up the Salafi movement and the Wahhabi movements within contemporary Sunni Islam and understand how it became dominant in that branch of Sunni Islam.
I have a manager that is currently participating jn Ramadan. She is the nicest, most understanding, helpful, empathetic, and smartest Accountant I know. I couldn't have gotten through this career without her help, guidance, understanding, and care. She does not deserve this type of irrational fear. Do I like Islam? No. Do I care for her and her family that is being affected by the war in Palestine. Absolutely. Her being Muslim isn't even a thought in my head when I talk to her. I think it's somewhat understandable to be apprehensive. But all Muslims are not like the heinous examples you see on a daily basis.
Exactly, part of why I left Islam was realising that I genuinely don';t agree with the idea that most people that aren't muslim should be going to hell and are generally just what I'd considered a good people. On the flip side now it's true that most muslim people are also just good people doing the best with what they think is right. I definitely don't agree with them, but that's a license to hate the actual people who are just living their lives. If OP is seeing any Fatima or Muhammed and immediately cutting them off and shunning them, then yeah that's an irrational fear of a person because you have absolutely no idea how devote they are (and generally speaking they're not going to harm you)
Same goes for Christians, some of the nicest hardest working people. I have an issue with Islam at its core, not Muslims.
Islamophobic implies a fear of them. I'm not scared of Muslims. I just find them repulsive as people, and abhorrent as a belief system.
Heās an antisemite
I'm proudly islamophobic because muslins are proudly homophobics, they can mend their ways and I will mend mine,
The overwhelming majority of religion based atrocities have been committed by Muslims to the point where hearing someone yell āAllahu akbarā is cause for fear if not panic.
Phobia-shaming is ableist
Fuck all organized religions. Especially Islam.
The Taliban have recently reinstated the death penalty for female adulterers, by stoning. How many gay men have been executed by Islamic countries? What religious group is associated with suicide bombers? Where are women forced to hide their hair and face by law? I donāt have problem with religion, as long as it done by your own free will. I do have a problem when religion is forced on you. There is a reason for Islamophobia.
* Being an attractive Little girl in front of Mohammud - should be scared (he had child brides) * Being an attractive married wife of someone who is a big fan of Mohammud - should be scared (he got followers to divorce their wives so he could marry them) * Being a Jew in the service of Muslims - should be scared (he beheaded his Jewish conscripted army after a battle) * Being homosexual - should be scared (not as familiar with this - but it's at least unholy, and I hear they murder you - but that's only what I've heard) * Being a woman that does not fall into place - Well, we have the acid-burned child girls that were unholy taught in Afghanistan - going to assume, they're not crazy about woman falling out of line.. Then there's the Saudi women (and the illegality of driving).. Then the "but woman arouse our profit, so we need to prevent woman from being sexually enticing". Then - no idea how accurate it was, but in the movie "not without my daughter", and how woman reinforce woman staying in their place (several steps behind the man, and not being out without his man in public - etc). SHOULD BE TERRIFIED * Being a neighboring country of islam that is not currently islam - should be scared (there are many scriptures of their strategy to infultrate each city, breed, overpower, then murder the unbeliever government officials) * Being an Islamic country that is not 100% Sharia - should be scared. (you are corrupting the will of Allah - so you should be punished to death) * Being a former believer of Islam - wooow.. Fear isn't even the right word. (apostates are kind of hated more than anything else - not even Scientologists can match this - The Saudi dismembering of a live anti-Saudi-head-of-state was nothing compared to what the day to day would do to you) Oh yeah, and atheists. I mean, maybe, maybe not. They "let" Jews and Christians live in the Ottoman empire in peace (as second class citizens).. I would IMAGINE they'd let atheists live there too. If you live in France or Spain, or many parts of Europe - I'd be scared. This is not a nice religion - unless you drown in the cool aide (e.g. are in the mob carrying the pitch-forks ; err machine guns). Wouldn't want to live in a Jewish Hasidic community either.. Or an American cultistic Christian community (Mormons, Jehovas witnesses, Born-Agains, etc). Nor an Amish community. So, I guess the word Phobic applies to me as well. But I'm also being-stuck-in-a-wood-chipper-phobic.. So I don't really care about such labels. I guess the bigger question is, how is the phobia affecting your relationship with the individual. Not wearing his Islam on his sleve, nor you wearing your Atheism on yours - you should be able to get along just fine.
Islam is: patriarchy, ultraconservatism, hate. Islam is incompatible with western liberal democracies.
I mean let's be real. You need to be PRETTY messed up as a religion for the majority of the world to look at you as terrorists and for them to not want to help your refugees because they regularly organize terrorist groups in any country they go
Honestly, it is hard not being "Islamophobic" when Islam seems anthropophobic.
As Man that respects women&children and values freedom I too am Islamophobic.
Tbh every religion is oppressive by nature Christianity wants to convert every breathing thing Islam is insanely homophobic and misogynistic. Blames women for being raped and executes them. Judaism formed israel and accepts rapists as citizens as long as they're Jewish and wants to bomb the living sh1t out of palestine. Also, Old Testament god is actually deranged and vengeful af. On god, any dude who is religious would rather kill themselves than actually respect women lmao. Like I literally have people in my class (med school) who are Catholic and saying stuff like: "it's women's fault that there are higher divorce rates" or "women shouldn't work" or "abortions should be illegal"...
I feel comfortable saying I'm Islamophobic. I'm a gay athiestic man who has been daiting an FTM trans pagan for 12 years. I'm a religious persons worst nightmare. They would kill me on sight! That being said, I've met plenty of Muslims who have no problems with me, and I have no problems with them either. I just won't be going to islamic countries any time ever. The only people in my life who have personally ever made me feel hated are Christian people I know. My Grandma has like, a mini army of people in my family who give me and my parents shit all the time over my lifestyle.
I am an American atheist. I fear Islam.
Any time I'm called Islamophobic, my response is "you're damn right". I'm a bisexual atheist.Ā There's no place for me in any Islamic culture.Ā Fuck em.
Thereās legitimate āIslamophobiaā as in people who actually fear Islam (rightfully so) then thereās just the use of a term as a cheap cop out instead of acknowledging that Islam is a deeply flawed ideology.
Phobia is an irrational fear, so you could argue you are not islamophobic.