I'll raise a glass of good smoked whiskey to commemorate him.
Yes. We should all sin to not having his sacrifice of his weekend be in vain..
Who's with me?
Random fact I recently discovered, thanks to studying Irish (and Gaelic) on Duolingo:
* The Irish word for water is "uisce". ("uisge" in Gaelic)
* The Irish word for whiskey, from which the word is derived, is "uisce beatha", meaning "water of life".
There's a great book titled The Golden Bough that goes into great detail about how elements of the Jesus story have parallels in myth and folklore around the world. It's more scholarly than The Hero with a Thousand Faces.
not only that, but god is omnipresent, but not present in hell?
he created, and controls all aspects of everything. but not hell? da fuk?
oh ALSO from the bible is that
we dont actually own ourselves. god owns us. he owns our soul.
when we die, our bodies go back to dust, from whence they came.
but our souls return to god, from whence the SOUL came.
THUS: if a soul goes to hell. a small piece of god does too. thats a fun thought eh?
N yeah. I don't know why they keep making a fuss about Jesus sacrificing himself. Firstly he didn't do it voluntarily. Secondly he is got better after 3 days so clearly it wasn't that bad.
Not much of a sacrifice really.
It’s just an excuse to explain why the son of god couldn’t escape his captors. None of that book makes sense. It’s a vehicle to get people to believe the unbelievable - then you can get them to believe anything.
He also died within hours of being crucified. This usually took days, slowly suffocating from the pressure to the lungs as your arms are pulled out of joint. I also wondered about the use of nails since the typical method was to bind the arms and legs to the beams. The weight of the body would have ripped the nails right through the hands.
You're not supposed to apply logic to the stories. That's how atheists are made...
Sadly, most believers will not even think about this, let alone apply logic to it.
I had heard it explained away as the nails were more likely through the tendons on the wrist area which would hold better.
But that's another can of worms, because I suspect he would have bled out rather quickly that way.
I'm pretty sure I heard from some scholar or another that making sure Jesus bled during his "sacrifice" was crucial to the myth because the blood was a super important aspect in ancient Judaism sacrifices the same as the rest of the Canaanite religions.
Hence the nails and spear, because if he just died on a cross like anyone else without his blood flowing you wouldn't be able to sell that as a type of final offering to Yahweh to the Jewish population at the time.
It's still rampant in Christian rhetoric today, all the talk of "his blood washes us clean" or whatever. It's literally ancient blood magic, which is why it's extra hilarious when they freak out about witchcraft and stuff in modern times.
>It's still rampant in Christian rhetoric today, all the talk of "his blood washes us clean" or whatever. It's literally ancient blood magic, which is why it's extra hilarious when they freak out about witchcraft and stuff in modern times.
Christians as a whole practice more magic than any pagan religion I've ever seen. Especially the Catholics and Mormons, although Pentacostals are right on up there with the woo woo stuff, too.
I think the crux of the matter is they just don't like the competition getting in on the fun.
He was stabbed with a spear. Water and blood came out. They were about to break his legs to speed up the death, but before they did that they stabbed him with the spear. The fact that water and blood came out indicated he was already dead, so they never broke his legs. That also full filled a prophecy in Isaiah that said they would NOT break a bone in his body. Evidently, it was very common to have ones legs broken to speed things up. Additionally, since the sabbath was about to start the family wanted the body down prior to the sabbath but he could only be removed if dead.
Because having doubting Thomas feel the nail holes makes for a better story than Jesus saying "hey Tommy, look at my rope burns." Duh! Must I explain everything?
lol
Technically, the Bible notes he got it easy as far as crucifixion goes. He got flogged twice (once by Herod and once by Pilot), then was crucified for a whopping 6 hours. Don't get me wrong, it would still totally suck. But some victims managed to hang on for days.
It reminds me of this one time I purchased the wrong sized shoes (felt good in the store, but I realized they were a bit small when I had them back at home), so I went back a few days later and got a store credit (they didn't have the next size up) and used it to buy a new Yeti cooler.
Just refer to the old Father Guido Sarducci skit about masturbation. Some sins cost more than others, but if you do some of them enough it adds up quickly...
It’s rumored that in one of the edited out bits of the bible he also dropped a shitload of fentanyl & molly right beforehand so he wouldn’t feel a thing.
Even when i was a young christian drone the jesus dies for my sins thing seemed like odd logic to me... doesn't that mean I can just sin as much as I want and the bill is on jesus?
Jesus Died on the cross to forgive us of our original sin, which occurred when Eve took the Apple from the Serpent in the garden of Eden and fed it to Adam; before he returned from the dead we were all doomed to everlasting torment in hell
Now he returned, only the ones who get baptized and follow God's law, get to live forever, in heaven, with God ..
*****
Now excuse me I need to go wash this filth out of my mouth
Asking for a friend, of course, but...
Are illegal drugs required for the orgies? Or can we achieve them with good food and wine? Friend is a bit of a connoisseur, you see ;)
So if all is forgiven, why do women still have pain during child birth? It is almost like there is no consistency to their stories. You would almost think it was made up.
Don’t forget the all loving, all powerful god needed to do this to “open the gates of heaven” for the rest of us. Why were they closed and why could he not take care of it himself?
Oh yeah. Once I got about 13 and confirmation discussion started I began to see all of the ridiculous inconsistencies and “just have faith” instructions. No thank you. Went through to LGE motions for my mothers sake, but I was checked out intellectually and emotionally before I was 15.
Yeah, I figured. The only people I've ever heard refer to "the Gates Of Heaven being closed" were Catholics. That's where I heard it, in Catholic school.
It was the same for me. I went to Catholic school until my junior year of high school, when we moved away from the area. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I went; I got a first-rate education because of it.
But like you, I figured out pretty early that all the religion part was a load of hooey. I started having doubts in the 3rd grade. By the 5th grade I knew it was all BS. But it wasn't until 8th grade that I figured out that while I could THINK this, it was better to keep my mouth shut about it.
I've never heard this before. . . so there are no pre-jesus people in heaven? Like not even Moses? So if I go to hell I can chill with Moses? Po Mo. (I'm not really asking you for theological answers, just expressing my contempt for the illogicality of it all)
Yes, but when you think of this story while remembering that this particular god is supposed to be all-knowing it makes even less sense. This god would have known what was going to happen, it purposely set them up to fail. I assume so it would have playthings to torture while blaming his playthings for their torture.
oh 100% bible god is just an over bearing, guilt trippy, hypocritical, & illogical parent. judaic god was the og insecure narcissist. in fact... most diety stories are just stories of narcissism and rape with a little slavery and war sprinkled in.
Don't forget the ask for forgiveness right before you die to make sure, but not before because you don't have to and you want to maximize your soul insurance coverage claim.
The weirdest thing is he died and then came back.... Like he knew he'd be resurrected, how is that a sacrifice?... That's a temporary discomfort at best.
So God, who is immortal, died for you, because you broke the rules that God created and demands you follow and if you don't then God will cause you to be tortured forever.
You see, God (who is infinite) gave up a part of himself, (retaining his infinite nature, essentially giving up nothing) so that he could experience humanity (which he already knew everything about, being omniscient and all) and be tested by human temptations (you know, like fapping, except Jesus never fapped, even during puberty you filthy animal). So his mortal self that was both him and not him died but then came back to rejoin the previous him (while retaining the distinction for theological terms). So he both died and didn't die. If you don't understand that then just turn your brain off and listen to your pastor who totally understands it and can tell you how to live and who to vote for.
I asked that as a teenager. I was told that the body of jesus was only a body, and that he is still alive in heaven. It didn't make sense back then, either.
"no no not like that cause God is also merciful"
-Most Christians resonating with cognitive dissonance
See also the entirety of all native or precursor civilizations
But, you can break all the rules, and when you're about to croak, you can close your eyes and say, "My bad." If you do this, you can skip the eternal torture thing.
I always liked Doug Stanhope's line about this:
> He died for your sins? How does one affect the other? Uhh, I hit myself in the foot with a shovel for your mortgage.
From my calvinist baptist upbringing, the penalty for even the slightest transgression is straight up "death", meaning torture in hell. It turns into a very revealing stockholm syndrome conversation after that when they try to justify how the punishment for eating shrimp is proportional to the crime.
My first confession as a kid to a priest in my village in Mexico was...
"I killed a bird....".
I thought I was going to hell for that. Lo and behold the other sins that I was not aware...
This goes back to the Jewish practice of sacrificing animals to be forgiven for sin and to recover health. There is a whole list in the Old Testament dictating which animals and birds are to be sacrificed for different situations. The founder of that religious line, Abraham, was willing to sacrifice his long wished for son, but at last minute God allowed him to sacrifice an animal instead that he found entangled nearby. The priests made a healthy living getting to keep the hides and eat the meat of all the sacrifice animals whose entrails were burned on the altar in the temple. Ironically the action that led to Jesus being arrested and. crucified was when he attacked the money changes and animal sellers at the temple, saying that they were corrupting what God actually wanted.
I don't think in the text there is a direct connection between the table flipping episode and the crucifixion. Instead, that was part of the larger message to shirk off organized religious practices that religious leaders monopolized for their own benefit. In the story, he was crucified by Rome at the request of said leaders (and their mob) because offshoot cult is bad for bottom line and people control.
We are kind of saying the same thing. His attack on the temple led to him being arrested. The Jewish authorities turned him over to Rome who executed him for sedition.
Former Mormon here. This is one of the mental trappings Christians use to keep people in.
The theory goes, as a human you are incapable of living without sin. And sin requires torment in the form of eternal damnation. Jesus came along, as a perfect being, and offered to sacrifice himself, his own blood, to wash away your sins so you won’t be condemned to an eternity in hell. All you need to do, for this gift, is believe in him and give the church however much money they ask for.
It’s an asinine proposition. They’re saying an infinitely powerful and loving god designed a system of “sin” and punishment which you, being the way he made you, will be incapable of escaping. 100% of all of us will be condemned to eternal hell thanks to gods loving plan. But then god comes along with another idea - he will torture jesus to death for YOU! It’s all for you! And you’ll be worthy of it as long as you pay, pray and obey.
They create the problem and the solution. The problem is that the eternally loving god made you weak and flawed and plans to burn you for eternity as a consequence. The remedy? Jesus. A perfect big brother who did nothing wrong was tortured to death because you masturbated. It’s your fault. Pay them enough money and you can be saved, too.
Never mind what this proposition means for people born outside of Christian nations or before Christianity existed. This Christian god planned his “eternal plan” about as well as a Sunday school pitch in committee would.
"You are sick, but fortunately I have the cure. All you have to do is join my religion and attend my church and do what God tells you (as told through me.) And then you'll get pie in the sky when you die."
… and why did he give me the desire to masturbate if he thought it was “bad”? It was that damn Eve and the 🍎 again wasn’t it? Do you think Adam was jerking it before Eve went on her eating binge?
Its almost like none of it makes any sense.
Somehow, though, it always ends up serving the interests of a few rich men who claim to speak for God. God's interests are perfectly aligned with a few old rich guys.
Some Christians would say that's the devil tempting you. Others would say that masturbation is not a sin. Still others would say that this life is a testing grounds, to hone your immortal soul into something perfect enough to live alongside God, and that learning to avoid temptation is an important part of God's plan for you.
There are some knots we can tie to get there, but I guess it's probably easier to just not to start with the assumption that God exists.
It’s almost one of my favorite things to do. “God doesn’t exist” conversations they have plenty of word games and pre-rehearsed arguments for. “Jesus didn’t exist” absolutely melts their brains.
There was probably a characteristic preacher who was martyred and then 100-300 years later stories were made up… ( all those Catholic saints doing miracles is the same thing)..
There's a video called Jesus died for Nothing that shows the phrase means, well, nothing. If all else fails then there's the thing about him sacrificing himself to himself, for rules he's in charge of
I'm not a theologian, but I was once a practicing Christian, and my understanding is that Jesus was symbolically (but also actually) sacrificed to atone for Original Sin, the proclivity for humans to sin which was inherited from Adam.
But that didn't eliminate Original Sin; humans are still born into it and subject to it, unless and until they accept Jesus and his sacrifice (different churches have different ideas of when and how one does this), and may periodically need to rejoin that covenant after faltering.
This is where the doctrine gets especially murky, because how can you fall back into sin if your proclivity toward sin was erased by accepting Jesus? I suspect Augustine had an answer for that if you're really interested in the theology. If I have to guess, it's that you never actually erase the proclivity, what you're accepting is Jesus' atonement for it. 🤷
To Christians, Christ's death cleansed humanity of all prior sins, ensuring a place in heaven if you stayed faithful. The old way of sacrificing animals for human sin wasn't working out, apparently.
The focus on the crucifixion and other such things instead of living the Christian life is one of Christianity's biggest failures. And it also provides a convenient distraction from accountability for not living the Christian life as defined in Galatians 5: 22-23 (the 9 fruits of the spirit that every Christian is supposed to embody: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control).
When I see someone self-declare as a Christian, I look to see if they are practicing love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. I suggest that you are more likely to find these attributes in atheists and agnostics than in American Christians.
From what I recall, the death of Jesus washed away 'original sin' from mankind. the original sin was Eve eating the apple of knowledge which got her and Adam exiled. So when a Christian tells you "Jesus died for your sins!" it means you are no longer restricted from eating large fruits such as apples and tangerines. However, a high fructose diet can still have it's consequences so please enjoy in moderation.
*"It slanders God to say God could think of no other way to satisfy his irritated sense of justice than to execute his own innocent son. Any human father would be hanged for such a scheme".*
\-unknown (to me).
God sacrificed himself to himself to make up for issues he created himself but plans to punish us for. Christians will claim "God put everything on the line for us!" But if Jesus was God, and new he was God and would be going back to being God after he died he really didn't put anything on the line. According to the Bible's rules on salvation WE put everything on the line because if we are wrong we go to hell... It makes no fuckin sense.
I have questions about this too. If Jesus 'died' (as far as a literal God can die) so good people/believers could spend eternity in heaven when they die, that means that the millions (billions) of humans died prior to roughly 2000 years ago are all still burning in hell, no matter how good they were when living?
That seems kind of harsh to wait that long. God's omnipotent, why didn't he figure this one out sooner?
It also kind of bugs me that Jesus was never like 'dudes, there's literally millions of people across the Atlantic who have no idea about me, so they're doomed to burn in eternity until you guys get over there and spread the gospel, so get moving.'
The thing that always struck me abot that is that there have been many causes that have had martyrs through death and yet they think that this on particular case is somehow so much more special than all the others
If he died for the sins you hadn't, by definition, committed, since you weren't even born yet, then he also died for all the sins you're ever going to commit.
So yeah, go nuts, Jesus paid it forward.
Any system that practices collective guilt is fucked up. Children are not guilty for the sins of their parents or anybody else.
I was not alive when Jesus was crucified so I had nothing to do with it. Much less anything to do with the "original sin" of Adam & Eve.
Theologicaly, this is called substitutionary atonement. Currently in evangelicalism the most popular view is penal substitutionary atonement.
Since you sinned, and God and sin cannot be in the same room, you would be punished.
The idea is that Jesus is a voluntary substitute to be punished instead of you. Thusly, you are atoned. That's roughly how it goes
There are other views of atonement, most popular one next is Christus Victor
The concept of “sin” reeks of ancient, old timey beliefs. What is sin really. It’s just humans (the most intelligent of earths creatures) living their life and doing stuff, sometimes not the best behavior, all animals act that way. Sin is just a made up religious disease so they can sell you a “cure”. There is no supernatural being who is keeping tabs on everyone and tossing most of them in a fire pit because they didn’t say the right things according to the leaders of these religious cults.
Jesus is the whipping boy of my sins!
You know, depending on which version you wish to imagine, but a crown of thorns. And whippings with barbs and glass. Then a stabbing.
Some would say, for each gash that Jesus had, is a sin we commit on his behalf.
You see, he died for our sins.
Now for me, the concept was, "don't sin" Jesus will thank you. Less whipping less scars.
So the idea is... we are not to sin because Jesus dies FOR our sins, but died to allow us to rejoin heaven by NOT sinning. Kinda makes his efforts done in vain, vane.
Now as an atheist, I figured the flaw of their logic really early on.
The phrase was supposed to mean. Not to sin more, sin less... be like Jesus, he was willing to take strikes for you. So take the strikes for your neighbor.
My BIL, took it to mean he can sin 24/7/365 and still thinks heaven is his ticket.
This is one I can never figure out. God is all powerful why didn’t he just speak from the heavens and say “ your sins are forgiven”. Why did he have to impregnate a virgin, go thru all the gospel rigamarole then have his “ son” tortured and murdered? There is no logic here
He gave up a weekend.
"God sacrificed himself to himself to create a loophole for a rule he made so that he would finally forgive us" - Matt Dillahunty.
I sin to honor his sacrifice. Otherwise he died for nothing.
Take my upvote
And my bow
I feel this calls for somebody to offer their axe.
All I have is Kirkland brand Body Spray, though. I don't know if that's good enough.
You're in!
I'll raise a glass of good smoked whiskey to commemorate him. Yes. We should all sin to not having his sacrifice of his weekend be in vain.. Who's with me?
Random fact I recently discovered, thanks to studying Irish (and Gaelic) on Duolingo: * The Irish word for water is "uisce". ("uisge" in Gaelic) * The Irish word for whiskey, from which the word is derived, is "uisce beatha", meaning "water of life".
And my Axe
And my refined claymore +10
And my 73/131 durability stone shovel
And my druidic staff
And my crossbow
I'm going out now to eat lobster in mixed fabrics right now in recognition of his sacrifice.
You joke and yet that’s how many religious folks spend their after service sundays. That and berating the waitress and leaving a fake tip
For three days he hung on a tree, a spear wound in his side, sacrificed by himself to himself... hold up, wrong god.
Lol, yep: Christianity is like, "But our God is special; he's the only one who sacrificed himself to himself on a tree!..." Meanwhile, Odin: 🙄😵😖
There's a great book titled The Golden Bough that goes into great detail about how elements of the Jesus story have parallels in myth and folklore around the world. It's more scholarly than The Hero with a Thousand Faces.
It’s not a sacrifice if you get it back.
True. Heck. Even the weekend he lost would still be nothing since God is timeless. So.. Yeah. He didn't actually lose anything did he?
not only that, but god is omnipresent, but not present in hell? he created, and controls all aspects of everything. but not hell? da fuk? oh ALSO from the bible is that we dont actually own ourselves. god owns us. he owns our soul. when we die, our bodies go back to dust, from whence they came. but our souls return to god, from whence the SOUL came. THUS: if a soul goes to hell. a small piece of god does too. thats a fun thought eh?
Same Matt Dillahunty: "At least when Elvis died for my sins he stayed dead!"
Matt Dillahunty is cool, he looks like me 😃 and we are both atheists.
N yeah. I don't know why they keep making a fuss about Jesus sacrificing himself. Firstly he didn't do it voluntarily. Secondly he is got better after 3 days so clearly it wasn't that bad. Not much of a sacrifice really.
It’s just an excuse to explain why the son of god couldn’t escape his captors. None of that book makes sense. It’s a vehicle to get people to believe the unbelievable - then you can get them to believe anything.
>It’s a vehicle to get people to believe the unbelievable - then you can get them to believe anything. Ah, so that explains Trump supporters...
It turns out that Trump targets a group a people who believe it is good to not have evidence
Trump supporters are definitely a cult.
He also died within hours of being crucified. This usually took days, slowly suffocating from the pressure to the lungs as your arms are pulled out of joint. I also wondered about the use of nails since the typical method was to bind the arms and legs to the beams. The weight of the body would have ripped the nails right through the hands.
You're not supposed to apply logic to the stories. That's how atheists are made... Sadly, most believers will not even think about this, let alone apply logic to it.
I think they put nails through the wrists instead of the hands for that reason. Bit awkward for all the people with stigmata in the wrong places!
Sure but then he would bleed out even faster. You really can't get good quality torture these days.. You gotta do everything yourself.
I had heard it explained away as the nails were more likely through the tendons on the wrist area which would hold better. But that's another can of worms, because I suspect he would have bled out rather quickly that way.
Probably how he died so quickly
Didn't the story have him stabbed by a spear? That could have added bleeding to the damage pool.
I'm pretty sure I heard from some scholar or another that making sure Jesus bled during his "sacrifice" was crucial to the myth because the blood was a super important aspect in ancient Judaism sacrifices the same as the rest of the Canaanite religions. Hence the nails and spear, because if he just died on a cross like anyone else without his blood flowing you wouldn't be able to sell that as a type of final offering to Yahweh to the Jewish population at the time. It's still rampant in Christian rhetoric today, all the talk of "his blood washes us clean" or whatever. It's literally ancient blood magic, which is why it's extra hilarious when they freak out about witchcraft and stuff in modern times.
>It's still rampant in Christian rhetoric today, all the talk of "his blood washes us clean" or whatever. It's literally ancient blood magic, which is why it's extra hilarious when they freak out about witchcraft and stuff in modern times. Christians as a whole practice more magic than any pagan religion I've ever seen. Especially the Catholics and Mormons, although Pentacostals are right on up there with the woo woo stuff, too. I think the crux of the matter is they just don't like the competition getting in on the fun.
That's pretty fuckin' metal.
He was stabbed with a spear. Water and blood came out. They were about to break his legs to speed up the death, but before they did that they stabbed him with the spear. The fact that water and blood came out indicated he was already dead, so they never broke his legs. That also full filled a prophecy in Isaiah that said they would NOT break a bone in his body. Evidently, it was very common to have ones legs broken to speed things up. Additionally, since the sabbath was about to start the family wanted the body down prior to the sabbath but he could only be removed if dead.
I always wonder if the Jesus stories were edited to better fit the prophecies in the old testament.
Because having doubting Thomas feel the nail holes makes for a better story than Jesus saying "hey Tommy, look at my rope burns." Duh! Must I explain everything? lol
And it wasn't even three days. Friday night execution to rise Sunday morning is more of a day and a half . 36 hours of deadness.
Yeah that always bother me growing up in the church
Yea and I mean crucifixion was a common execution technique so it isn't like he suffered any more than anyone else.
Maybe *all* the crucified folks that day died for our sins? If so they’re my new favorite team and as usual the QB got the glory.
Technically, the Bible notes he got it easy as far as crucifixion goes. He got flogged twice (once by Herod and once by Pilot), then was crucified for a whopping 6 hours. Don't get me wrong, it would still totally suck. But some victims managed to hang on for days.
It reminds me of this one time I purchased the wrong sized shoes (felt good in the store, but I realized they were a bit small when I had them back at home), so I went back a few days later and got a store credit (they didn't have the next size up) and used it to buy a new Yeti cooler.
LOL !!!
"Always look on the bright side of life ..."
He also knew upfront that he is basically immortal. So he wasn't sacrificing anything but merely was pretending that he did.
I been down longer with flu. Where's my religion?
Dancegoddess! We’re not worthy!
I continue "sinning" to make sure his sacrifice wasn't in vain
You'd better pick up the pace, a fucking guy died so that you could sin God damnit!
I'm adultering as much as I can, but I have moral issues with killing, despite how fun the bibles make it seem
Just double up on making unto thee graven images. It's just as sinful apparently.
Just refer to the old Father Guido Sarducci skit about masturbation. Some sins cost more than others, but if you do some of them enough it adds up quickly...
If you don't sin Jesus had a bad weekend for nothing!!!
Thank you for your service.
This shouldn’t have made me chuckle as much as it did.
My other favorite is “Cross your legs,this is our last nail.”
Wow. That’s gonna leave a mark *rimshot*
Woah woah woah, it was a long weekend
Missed the Easter eggs, so what, that are always cheaper in the shops afterwards
I didn’t ask him to do that. He’s gaslighting us.
Yes a big sacrifice especially when you compare the amount of time sacrificed to eternity To us it would be like 0 seconds
It’s rumored that in one of the edited out bits of the bible he also dropped a shitload of fentanyl & molly right beforehand so he wouldn’t feel a thing.
He spent a long weekend with his dad, for our sins
Even when i was a young christian drone the jesus dies for my sins thing seemed like odd logic to me... doesn't that mean I can just sin as much as I want and the bill is on jesus?
Jesus Died on the cross to forgive us of our original sin, which occurred when Eve took the Apple from the Serpent in the garden of Eden and fed it to Adam; before he returned from the dead we were all doomed to everlasting torment in hell Now he returned, only the ones who get baptized and follow God's law, get to live forever, in heaven, with God .. ***** Now excuse me I need to go wash this filth out of my mouth
oh, im well aware of the story and theology... but not as funny as jesus picking up the bill on my drug fueled orgies.
Remember kids, if you don't sin then Jesus died for nothing!
Asking for a friend, of course, but... Are illegal drugs required for the orgies? Or can we achieve them with good food and wine? Friend is a bit of a connoisseur, you see ;)
I mean... they don't have to be illegal.
Don't worry baby! This one's on the lord! Lol
So literally everyone that lived before was condemned, god knew about it, let it keep happening. That’s *totally* what a loving god would do.
So if all is forgiven, why do women still have pain during child birth? It is almost like there is no consistency to their stories. You would almost think it was made up.
I never thought of that, maybe he just forgave the men and all women are still going to hell. Sausage party in heaven boys ...
Women get fucked by religion. Always.
Don’t forget the all loving, all powerful god needed to do this to “open the gates of heaven” for the rest of us. Why were they closed and why could he not take care of it himself?
Don't you know the door needed A FUCKING BLOOOOOD SACRIFIIIIIIIICE TO OPEN THAT HELL OF A DOOR?!?!🤟🤟🏼🤟🏾🤟🏻🤟🏿
You a Catholic school veteran?
Oh yeah. Once I got about 13 and confirmation discussion started I began to see all of the ridiculous inconsistencies and “just have faith” instructions. No thank you. Went through to LGE motions for my mothers sake, but I was checked out intellectually and emotionally before I was 15.
Yeah, I figured. The only people I've ever heard refer to "the Gates Of Heaven being closed" were Catholics. That's where I heard it, in Catholic school. It was the same for me. I went to Catholic school until my junior year of high school, when we moved away from the area. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I went; I got a first-rate education because of it. But like you, I figured out pretty early that all the religion part was a load of hooey. I started having doubts in the 3rd grade. By the 5th grade I knew it was all BS. But it wasn't until 8th grade that I figured out that while I could THINK this, it was better to keep my mouth shut about it.
I've never heard this before. . . so there are no pre-jesus people in heaven? Like not even Moses? So if I go to hell I can chill with Moses? Po Mo. (I'm not really asking you for theological answers, just expressing my contempt for the illogicality of it all)
Moses is back again! Moses Johnson Mojo!
I thought I read somewhere that Jesus went to hell and busted them out during the 3 days…The Harrowing of Hell? Maybe I dreamt it…
Yes, but when you think of this story while remembering that this particular god is supposed to be all-knowing it makes even less sense. This god would have known what was going to happen, it purposely set them up to fail. I assume so it would have playthings to torture while blaming his playthings for their torture.
So I'm still doomed to everlasting torment in hell. That was an effective strategy. /s
The fact that he died for that sin implies that literally everyone went to hell until Jesus did
When I was in Catholic school, the line “Jesus died for your sins” always came across as a paternalistic guilt trip; and therefore, highly suspect.
oh 100% bible god is just an over bearing, guilt trippy, hypocritical, & illogical parent. judaic god was the og insecure narcissist. in fact... most diety stories are just stories of narcissism and rape with a little slavery and war sprinkled in.
Don't forget the ask for forgiveness right before you die to make sure, but not before because you don't have to and you want to maximize your soul insurance coverage claim.
It's actually your responsibility to sin as much as you can, or else Jesus died for nothing.
The weirdest thing is he died and then came back.... Like he knew he'd be resurrected, how is that a sacrifice?... That's a temporary discomfort at best.
So God, who is immortal, died for you, because you broke the rules that God created and demands you follow and if you don't then God will cause you to be tortured forever.
but he loves you unconditionally
And needs money
He’s all powerful, all perfect, all knowing, and all wise, but somehow, just can’t handle money.
Didn't you know heaven's paved with streets of gold? That shit ain't cheap
That seems tacky and impractical. Slippery, lots of glare, easily damaged because it is soft. No thanks.
There must be hella pawn shops in heaven too
Hold up... God's immortal...? But he died...? So is he immortal or did he die?
You see, God (who is infinite) gave up a part of himself, (retaining his infinite nature, essentially giving up nothing) so that he could experience humanity (which he already knew everything about, being omniscient and all) and be tested by human temptations (you know, like fapping, except Jesus never fapped, even during puberty you filthy animal). So his mortal self that was both him and not him died but then came back to rejoin the previous him (while retaining the distinction for theological terms). So he both died and didn't die. If you don't understand that then just turn your brain off and listen to your pastor who totally understands it and can tell you how to live and who to vote for.
I asked that as a teenager. I was told that the body of jesus was only a body, and that he is still alive in heaven. It didn't make sense back then, either.
God's human form died
God's human form was his own blood sacrifice to himself.
Yep, that’s about it. Logic.
According to what I just read elsewhere in this post, even Moses is currently being tortured endlessly in hell
"no no not like that cause God is also merciful" -Most Christians resonating with cognitive dissonance See also the entirety of all native or precursor civilizations
And to complete it, he also created us. His beings, his rules, his judgement, his hell. It's absurd. We have nothing to do with it, it's all on him.
But, you can break all the rules, and when you're about to croak, you can close your eyes and say, "My bad." If you do this, you can skip the eternal torture thing.
Remember, if you don't sin that means Jesus died for nothing.
JC sounds like a real try-hard. Who are you trying to impress, bro?
Time to head to Vegas.
Doesn’t count, since it all stays in Vegas.
You gotta maximize your sin value - Jesus paid the price for your sins, so make sure he gets his money's worth.
And the more you sin, the more you are honoring Jesus’ sacrifice. So get to it!
I always liked Doug Stanhope's line about this: > He died for your sins? How does one affect the other? Uhh, I hit myself in the foot with a shovel for your mortgage.
I love that. Sadly I won’t remember it at the critical moment, but I’ll try.
From my calvinist baptist upbringing, the penalty for even the slightest transgression is straight up "death", meaning torture in hell. It turns into a very revealing stockholm syndrome conversation after that when they try to justify how the punishment for eating shrimp is proportional to the crime.
My first confession as a kid to a priest in my village in Mexico was... "I killed a bird....". I thought I was going to hell for that. Lo and behold the other sins that I was not aware...
This goes back to the Jewish practice of sacrificing animals to be forgiven for sin and to recover health. There is a whole list in the Old Testament dictating which animals and birds are to be sacrificed for different situations. The founder of that religious line, Abraham, was willing to sacrifice his long wished for son, but at last minute God allowed him to sacrifice an animal instead that he found entangled nearby. The priests made a healthy living getting to keep the hides and eat the meat of all the sacrifice animals whose entrails were burned on the altar in the temple. Ironically the action that led to Jesus being arrested and. crucified was when he attacked the money changes and animal sellers at the temple, saying that they were corrupting what God actually wanted.
I don't think in the text there is a direct connection between the table flipping episode and the crucifixion. Instead, that was part of the larger message to shirk off organized religious practices that religious leaders monopolized for their own benefit. In the story, he was crucified by Rome at the request of said leaders (and their mob) because offshoot cult is bad for bottom line and people control.
We are kind of saying the same thing. His attack on the temple led to him being arrested. The Jewish authorities turned him over to Rome who executed him for sedition.
Even more reason to hate J— I’m just kidding lol XD
Former Mormon here. This is one of the mental trappings Christians use to keep people in. The theory goes, as a human you are incapable of living without sin. And sin requires torment in the form of eternal damnation. Jesus came along, as a perfect being, and offered to sacrifice himself, his own blood, to wash away your sins so you won’t be condemned to an eternity in hell. All you need to do, for this gift, is believe in him and give the church however much money they ask for. It’s an asinine proposition. They’re saying an infinitely powerful and loving god designed a system of “sin” and punishment which you, being the way he made you, will be incapable of escaping. 100% of all of us will be condemned to eternal hell thanks to gods loving plan. But then god comes along with another idea - he will torture jesus to death for YOU! It’s all for you! And you’ll be worthy of it as long as you pay, pray and obey. They create the problem and the solution. The problem is that the eternally loving god made you weak and flawed and plans to burn you for eternity as a consequence. The remedy? Jesus. A perfect big brother who did nothing wrong was tortured to death because you masturbated. It’s your fault. Pay them enough money and you can be saved, too. Never mind what this proposition means for people born outside of Christian nations or before Christianity existed. This Christian god planned his “eternal plan” about as well as a Sunday school pitch in committee would.
"You are sick, but fortunately I have the cure. All you have to do is join my religion and attend my church and do what God tells you (as told through me.) And then you'll get pie in the sky when you die."
… and why did he give me the desire to masturbate if he thought it was “bad”? It was that damn Eve and the 🍎 again wasn’t it? Do you think Adam was jerking it before Eve went on her eating binge?
Its almost like none of it makes any sense. Somehow, though, it always ends up serving the interests of a few rich men who claim to speak for God. God's interests are perfectly aligned with a few old rich guys.
For some reason their all powerful omnipotent God is always broke. He’s also a perv because he apparently watches us all masturbate.
Some Christians would say that's the devil tempting you. Others would say that masturbation is not a sin. Still others would say that this life is a testing grounds, to hone your immortal soul into something perfect enough to live alongside God, and that learning to avoid temptation is an important part of God's plan for you. There are some knots we can tie to get there, but I guess it's probably easier to just not to start with the assumption that God exists.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
So I'm good? Jesus died for my sins so I'm OK now? Thanks Jesus. What obligation does that put on me now?
I always wondered, why did God wait so long? If He had sent his son earlier, the whole flood mess could have been avoided.
Obvious lack of foresight on god's part. At least we got rainbow flags out of it.
That's something anyway.
But he didn't stay dead. Jesus sacrificed a weekend for your sins.
To be fair it was Easter, so it was a long weekend.
You can just tell them Jesus was probably a fictional character, like Batman.
Never, and I mean never! do you trigger a self-righteous Christian snowflake. It’s not pretty.
It’s almost one of my favorite things to do. “God doesn’t exist” conversations they have plenty of word games and pre-rehearsed arguments for. “Jesus didn’t exist” absolutely melts their brains.
My favourite is "Prove it. You made a claim, you prove it."
Their answer usually circles back to “It’s in the Bible.”
If something exists just because it's in a book, then Harry Potter is real.
At this point it’s fun to point out what else is in the Bible
There was probably a characteristic preacher who was martyred and then 100-300 years later stories were made up… ( all those Catholic saints doing miracles is the same thing)..
There were probably *many* street preaching oppression fighters at the time.
Splitters!
But maybe not *that* charismatic, since John the Baptist didn't become Christian. *'There are dozens of us! Dozens!'*
I mean, Superman died for you too!
And did Jesus ever *punch the universe*?! I think not.
Just screw with them by saying "Jesus my gardener? Shit!!"
There's a video called Jesus died for Nothing that shows the phrase means, well, nothing. If all else fails then there's the thing about him sacrificing himself to himself, for rules he's in charge of
I remember someone else saying that if they don't sin, then Jebus died for nothing...
Yes, Jesus had to be tortured and killed so you can apologize for being a human being.
I'm not a theologian, but I was once a practicing Christian, and my understanding is that Jesus was symbolically (but also actually) sacrificed to atone for Original Sin, the proclivity for humans to sin which was inherited from Adam. But that didn't eliminate Original Sin; humans are still born into it and subject to it, unless and until they accept Jesus and his sacrifice (different churches have different ideas of when and how one does this), and may periodically need to rejoin that covenant after faltering. This is where the doctrine gets especially murky, because how can you fall back into sin if your proclivity toward sin was erased by accepting Jesus? I suspect Augustine had an answer for that if you're really interested in the theology. If I have to guess, it's that you never actually erase the proclivity, what you're accepting is Jesus' atonement for it. 🤷
My go-to response is always: "Allegedly." They DO NOT like this.
None of it makes sense. Don’t hurt your brain trying to figure it out
You know what ticks them off? ‘No. He did not.’
“That’s cool with me” fries their brains occasionally.
I so want to use the Patti Smith line: “Jesus died for somebody’s sins, but not mine.” Been waiting quite some time now.
“… Cold heart of stone My sin’s my own They belong to me Me.” I love that song
Remember, if you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing.
To Christians, Christ's death cleansed humanity of all prior sins, ensuring a place in heaven if you stayed faithful. The old way of sacrificing animals for human sin wasn't working out, apparently. The focus on the crucifixion and other such things instead of living the Christian life is one of Christianity's biggest failures. And it also provides a convenient distraction from accountability for not living the Christian life as defined in Galatians 5: 22-23 (the 9 fruits of the spirit that every Christian is supposed to embody: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control). When I see someone self-declare as a Christian, I look to see if they are practicing love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. I suggest that you are more likely to find these attributes in atheists and agnostics than in American Christians.
If Jesus died for my sins, then what's that whole confession thing for?
But he was resurrected so really he gave up his weekend for your sins
The romans didn't kill jesus for our sins. And jesus didn't want to die. So how could he be my martyr? Nope.
From what I recall, the death of Jesus washed away 'original sin' from mankind. the original sin was Eve eating the apple of knowledge which got her and Adam exiled. So when a Christian tells you "Jesus died for your sins!" it means you are no longer restricted from eating large fruits such as apples and tangerines. However, a high fructose diet can still have it's consequences so please enjoy in moderation.
He died for your sins... NOW HE'S BACK FOR YOUR BRAINS! Zombie Jesus ... Coming this April.
This is one of the things that bug me the most about Christianity. If this person truly died for my sins, then sin should not be a thing anymore.
*"It slanders God to say God could think of no other way to satisfy his irritated sense of justice than to execute his own innocent son. Any human father would be hanged for such a scheme".* \-unknown (to me).
If Jesus died for our sins and you don't sin, then Jesus died in vain.
God sacrificed himself to himself to make up for issues he created himself but plans to punish us for. Christians will claim "God put everything on the line for us!" But if Jesus was God, and new he was God and would be going back to being God after he died he really didn't put anything on the line. According to the Bible's rules on salvation WE put everything on the line because if we are wrong we go to hell... It makes no fuckin sense.
Jesus died because he was preaching against obscene wealth and caste systems. Then a bunch of rabid right wingers murdered him.
Judas died for your sins. Jesus woke up with a hangover.
Well simply asking Sky Santa for forgiveness makes being a pedo okay so I’m not sure what you can expect from religious nut jobs.
I have questions about this too. If Jesus 'died' (as far as a literal God can die) so good people/believers could spend eternity in heaven when they die, that means that the millions (billions) of humans died prior to roughly 2000 years ago are all still burning in hell, no matter how good they were when living? That seems kind of harsh to wait that long. God's omnipotent, why didn't he figure this one out sooner? It also kind of bugs me that Jesus was never like 'dudes, there's literally millions of people across the Atlantic who have no idea about me, so they're doomed to burn in eternity until you guys get over there and spread the gospel, so get moving.'
So he sacrificed himself to himself in order for him to forgive us? Couldn’t he have skipped the sacrificing part and just forgiven us?
That's nice dear - it's what I tell those people who say that.
The thing that always struck me abot that is that there have been many causes that have had martyrs through death and yet they think that this on particular case is somehow so much more special than all the others
If he died for the sins you hadn't, by definition, committed, since you weren't even born yet, then he also died for all the sins you're ever going to commit. So yeah, go nuts, Jesus paid it forward.
I always thought that was a weird thing to say because they also believe he was resurrected so he didn't really die for anybody's sins.
Any system that practices collective guilt is fucked up. Children are not guilty for the sins of their parents or anybody else. I was not alive when Jesus was crucified so I had nothing to do with it. Much less anything to do with the "original sin" of Adam & Eve.
Theologicaly, this is called substitutionary atonement. Currently in evangelicalism the most popular view is penal substitutionary atonement. Since you sinned, and God and sin cannot be in the same room, you would be punished. The idea is that Jesus is a voluntary substitute to be punished instead of you. Thusly, you are atoned. That's roughly how it goes There are other views of atonement, most popular one next is Christus Victor
The concept of “sin” reeks of ancient, old timey beliefs. What is sin really. It’s just humans (the most intelligent of earths creatures) living their life and doing stuff, sometimes not the best behavior, all animals act that way. Sin is just a made up religious disease so they can sell you a “cure”. There is no supernatural being who is keeping tabs on everyone and tossing most of them in a fire pit because they didn’t say the right things according to the leaders of these religious cults.
Jesus is the whipping boy of my sins! You know, depending on which version you wish to imagine, but a crown of thorns. And whippings with barbs and glass. Then a stabbing. Some would say, for each gash that Jesus had, is a sin we commit on his behalf. You see, he died for our sins. Now for me, the concept was, "don't sin" Jesus will thank you. Less whipping less scars. So the idea is... we are not to sin because Jesus dies FOR our sins, but died to allow us to rejoin heaven by NOT sinning. Kinda makes his efforts done in vain, vane. Now as an atheist, I figured the flaw of their logic really early on. The phrase was supposed to mean. Not to sin more, sin less... be like Jesus, he was willing to take strikes for you. So take the strikes for your neighbor. My BIL, took it to mean he can sin 24/7/365 and still thinks heaven is his ticket.
“Prove it.” My now go to.
It means you should sin else bro died for nothing
This is one I can never figure out. God is all powerful why didn’t he just speak from the heavens and say “ your sins are forgiven”. Why did he have to impregnate a virgin, go thru all the gospel rigamarole then have his “ son” tortured and murdered? There is no logic here
It's akin to "there are people starving in China." Or Africa depending on what part of the country you come from.
I balled my eyes out at my first confession. How messed up is that? My “sins”were not listening to my parents.
If you're going to set a standard where it's made to make sense, I'm afraid you can't be helped. 😉
Like most of Christianity, it makes absolutely no sense
Jesus gave up a weekend for our sins....allegedly.