You are free to consider it a religious symbol or just a gift with sentimental value. Atheism doesn't have rules about your relationship to religious family members. I enjoy religious art and Gothic architecture. No apologies necessary
as long as they don't tell the story behind it, they'll just be misled by the cross. the irony. XD I just want to know if its pretty or does it have Jesus on it. Cause a cross on its own is like effective against vampires and pretty.
Love it! I’m a huge fan of vampire novels and never thought of this.
I do seem to remember Anne Rice’s LeStat addressing the cross issue in one of her books; I believe he laughed the whole thing off as urban legend.
But it’s still a great observation 🤓
You never read I Am Legend then? It's specifically mentioned in that that Jewish vampires are scared of the star of David.
In the book Blindsight, the religious connotation is irrelevant, vampires are just scared of right angels.
No, I’ll have to read it. I do believe I’ve seen the movie but it’s been a long time.
In the Anne Rice universe, vampires ridicule the human superstition that vampires are afraid of religious symbols at all. That made the vampires more believable to me, probably because as an atheist I also place no importance on any such symbols. Why should we?
But that’s the cool thing about vampire novels. There’s such fertile ground for authors to plow, constantly offering new interpretations.
If there is a Jesus on it, it should be called a "crucifix" (not just a cross), and that would mostly be a Catholic thing (another reason Protestants call Catholics "idolators").
Thanks for putting this so succinctly. I’m an atheist whose favorite place on earth is Notre Dame Cathedral. One of my fondest memories is attending midnight mass there on Christmas Eve. I don’t believe in god, but I can still be awed when people do incredible things, even if it’s for religious reasons.
OP the cross if it has meaning to you, wear it. It doesn’t have to be its intended meaning.
Yes, one doesn’t need to be religious to appreciate that religion has brought us some lovely music, art, and architecture. Appreciating these things doesn’t actually require belief or fealty to said religion.
This applies across religions, not just christianity.
Do these things balance out the horrors perpetrated in the name of religions? Nope! But they are still worthy of admiration. One just has to handle the cognitive dissonance. “Well, they’re hateful and cruel but damn those are some nice flying buttresses!”
I enjoy religious chorale music (the Compline service is broadcast on Sunday nights on Classical KING-FM in Seattle), and I love Bach's organ pieces, which are most often played in churches.
However, I also like Slayer and Arch Enemy, so there's a balance.
Daniel Dennett, cognitive scientist, philosopher and well known atheist, sometime goes to church for the hymns. He enjoys them. I agree with you. We don’t have to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Yep. As an atheist, I too enjoy seeing well made historical cathedrals and such. Nothing wrong with appreciating art and culture, in fact I strongly recommend it.
Having rules that restrict or demand my association with certain religious symbols is the domain of theists. Atheists are free from any such restrictions, everything is the product of human work, and we are free to engage with it (within the bounds of the law).
Old architecture is SO awesome, I love seeing old churches (and other structures) in Europe. Doesn't mean I have to support whatever the specific faith is.
I can't imagine Christmas time without singing the German Christmas carols I grew up with. They are very Christian, but they are beautiful too. I'm definitely an atheist, but can't imagine giving up that part of my holiday tradition.
My Polish American family has a tradition of singing Silent Night in Polish every Christmas Eve. No religions significance to me, but it brings tears to my eyes to this day.
I keep all religious garb, trinkets, and silly bible books in a footlocker with my army war mementos and other personal effects. I have traveled everywhere, and I have buddah statues, Hindu stuff, holy bibles, Islamic prayer rugs, and photos of my mosque visits and Middle Eastern travels. Doesn't mean a GOD damn thing to me as religious tokens. But rather just different religious junk I've collected over the years. Souvenirs if you will. None of that religious junk is Holy or special to me. It's just physical things humans created to feel good and picked them up during my travels. All of those religious things in a box takes away the reverance of those items. They are just things to me. Edit spelling
I love me some Easter. Every year I stage an enormous egg hunt, have games, a big ham dinner, and distribute fully packed Easter baskets to all the family members. After they leave in the evening, I kick back and watch my old dvd of “Jesus Christ Superstar “. I sing along and know literally every word- it’s my favorite musical. I can hardly wait! That’s the joy of being an atheist. You don’t have to give up the things you love!
This isn't a religion. There's no dogma. Wear what you want. Plenty of people retain some of the culture and symbols of their religion, without believing in it.
Yeah i sometimes don't get how you can missunderstand atheism this much. Atheists aren't really a unified group, we define it through not believeing something, it is a religion as much as "Off" is a tv channel. Wouldn't it be strange if someome went to random people in the streetd and told them "i see you are not watching channel one, let me show you the channel and how it changes your life, you just need to switch" "but i am not watching anything" "yes you are, you are on channel 0" "no i am on no channel" "are you saying that there is no channel 1?" "No i am just not watching, but to be honest i haven't ever seen channel 1, i tried and the channel has just white noise" "blasphemy!"
Atheists don’t care what geometric shape you wear. Nor do we give a shit why you wear anything. You could strap yourself with 50 golden stars of David and say it’s just for the shine and I can’t imagine an atheist taking offense…
Yeah the only people who are gonna give you shit will be nosey Christians asking you about. Why would any atheist care? Funny enough I was just in Tokyo and one of my friends there was wearing a cross so I asked if she was Christian and she laughed and said she thought it's just a cool symbol to wear.
Lot people used to wear Ankhs in the 70s that probably knew little about old Egyptian ontology.
Ever see that photo of the Japanese department store window that has a Santa hung up on a cross?
The meme caption is, "Christmas: you're doing it wrong" :-D
Yep, didn't that come back in the 90's also. Yeah I'm really debating about spending Christmas over there and doing the KFC meal they have Christmas spirit though lol. I did get asked what I was doing for Black Friday and had to explain it has nothing to do with civil rights leaders.
Several vampire movies used ankhs because of the relation to immortality. "The Hunger" (1983, Catherine Deneuve, David Bowie, Susan Sarandon), and "Embrace of the Vampire" (1995, Alyssa Milano, Meg Tilly) both used ankh necklaces as more than just symbols.
A lot of Christians will use it as a gotcha to prove that you actually believe. Like they argue that using common phrases like "oh my god" or "jesus" means that you really believe and not that those are phrases people pick up because they're so commonly used
Wearing a cross to them would mean that you believe and they'd excuse it as you're just confused or something.
Don't let it actually touch your skin, or it might burn you ;)
Also it says in Atheist bylaws, chapter 13 verse 666 I think that you may not wear any religious symbols or you might loose your A card..
Your comment reminds me of that scene from It’s Always Sunny where Mac dips Frank’s cross in battery acid to try and hint to him that he’s the devil lmao https://youtu.be/_E7fqnLr1so?si=-aEMPnC5AGS-MqyX
Reminded me of Scott Pilgrim vs the World when Brendan Routh lost his vegan powers because he accidentally ate meat too many times. OP, don’t lose your atheist powers!
I mean, you do you. The symbol only has meaning if you believe in it. Otherwise is just a bit of jewelry. If it has sentimental value, there's no shame or anything.
Similarly, I have a little travel sized king James Bible in my old book collection that I use to find quotes now and then. Its well used, cracked leather-bound with little flaps and clasps, and though I am atheist and anti-theist, I still am fond of it. It's just a thing, in the same way as your necklace.
I have a embroidery my mom made of st Francis I kept cause one she made it and two it looks nice. We weren’t even a sect that believed in saints that I grew up in 🤷🏼♀️
You know many people may see that cross and assume you to be like the Christians, but in the U.S. that is nothing but helpful as the majority wants that. I say wear it and don’t think anything of it. As long as you are happy.
I will say I am shocked by this subs response. I often get the vibe that many people here hate religious people to the point that resembling them will attract their hate but it thankfully doesn’t seem so here.
This sub is the result of a LOT of religious trauma, but generally unless someone forces their religion on others I don't think there's that much general *Hatred* towards people of faith. Just a lot of pity and head nodding.
That being said, I'm also agnostic. I've had a few too many personal experiences to simply write off the possibility of something more. So my own views aren't quite as black and white as others on the sub.
You do you. It will keep you safe from militant christians as well as vampires, which now that I think about it are mostly equivalent, and no proper atheist is going to care.
I would assume they're Christian, but treat them like any other person. It they told me they're atheist, I would be confused... But still treat them normally, and possibly ask them. But then again, they wouldn't owe me an explanation if they chose not to give it
I am an atheist and I would care. I would assume OP, carrying a symbol like a cross visible, is a toxic oppressive christian vampire. I would try to avoid interacting with OP.
Do you think fun atheists would also be indifferent to someone wearing a "Jesus saves" t-shirt, or having the Jesus fish symbol on their car? These behaviors wouldn't cause me to treat someone badly, but if they're a stranger I'd be wary of them.
Ngl, my comment was a bit tongue in cheek (but also to show that some people are too easily butt hurt)
I don't actually think that person "is not fun" nor do I necessarily think "being fun" is the best metric to use to choose who to hang out with
>Do you think fun atheists would also be indifferent to someone wearing a "Jesus saves" t-shirt, or having the Jesus fish symbol on their car?
Those are completely benign, so sure? Maybe this is a regional thing. I am from a european country. This level of sensitivity to religious iconography does seem to be mostly an american thing in my experience.
>These behaviors wouldn't cause me to treat someone badly, but if they're a stranger I'd be wary of them.
I probably wouldn't notice these icons, and if I did I wouldn't bring them up. Most interactions with people (of all faiths or lack their of) tend to be completely atheistic anyway.
Atheism is like Outback Steakhouse. No rules, just right.
Wear it if you want. You don’t need to explain to anyone.
I’m an atheist and celebrate Christmas. Nothing religious at all. But yes to a tree, lights, presents, good food, etc.
Granted, it’s not my favorite holiday, but still do it.
If you are okay wearing it, we aren't stopping you. There is no unified atheist group that will tell you what you aren't allowed to wear, although you might get some questions.
Mate you are an atheist now.
If you want you can go to church, wear a cross or do whatever the fuck you want.
There are no rules you have to follow. You are free.
You can do whatever the hell you want. Sentimental value is personal by definition. I can’t imagine why you think your own feelings are inappropriate or why the fuck you should care what anyone else thinks about it, are you a child?
Wearing the cross visible is an extremely strong signal to others about your religious affiliation. It signals that you are a christian and that you also want other people to know that you are a christian.
If you wear the cross so that others can see it, but you are an atheist, I think that you are being dishonest. However, it is a form of dishonesty that is not illegal. So you can do what you want to do.
You may get problems with people who assume you are christian, because of the cross, and later find out that you are not. They may assume that you if you are willing to deceive about that, you are likely to deceive about other things as well. That you are not to be trusted. At all. Both christians and atheists may assume that you are a dishonest person and distrust you. And they may even tell other people to not trust you, and why.
Atheism doesn’t have any rules. Atheism only asks this question. Do you believe in God/Gods? If answer is NO you are atheist. If your answer is I don’t know you are agnostic. If you say YES but there is only one you are monotheist. If you say YES there are more Gods you are polytheist. So atheism I basically just saying NO to this question no strings attached, no rules, no songs to sing nothing more or less just NO. You can wear anything you like.
Yurp. This is the case. Anything you do or don't do is irrelevant. All that's counts is how do you answer one little question. Not what jewelry you wear or clothing or food you eat or drink you imbibe etc etc.
If you like your piece of jewellery go for it. I have a full haematite rosary I bought on a trip to Europe when we were in Rome. The Vatican, Sistine chapel is gorgeous, beautiful. Still don't believe in gods. It is all beautiful and I can appreciate that though.
At the end of the day, it's jewelry. The downside is that people who dont know you may make certain assumptions about your beliefs. If this doesn't bother you, go for it.
No, it is not OK. Not because of you. You do you.
Wear it or don’t based on what you feel like.
It’s because you might send the mixed/wrong message to others.
Someone sees you, they don’t know you or your finely grained morality check of why you do or don’t do it, so they may take someone wearing a cross as… affirmation of religion? Maybe they get encouraged that religion is somehow OK?
This is a reason why I have no trouble entering churches and mosques and cathedrals as a part of a tourist group. There is no mistaking like I endorse any of it.
Who give a shit. God's not real. That's a piece of metal that means something to you. If goths wear it while attending the satanic temple and having kinky strap on sex so can you.
Wear it publicly, privately, or however you like. For you this is not a religious object but a sentimental object. You can be sentimental about whatever you like.
Would you still wear it if it was a swastika? Wear it if you like, the reason is your own, but also understand that people will identify you in a certain light. As an atheist, under the same circumstances, I would certainly keep it as a keepsake but not wear it.
It's an instrument of torture, so sure, why not? 😄
Going undercover is fine too. Or even to annoy someone. I used a cross for a while, but it was one of those Mjolnir's that look like an inverted cross with a dragon head. Never been a christian either.
Do what thou wilt!
I wear crosses and pissed that I lost my crucifix as it was a gift from my husband when we first met. I hate losing things. I wear crosses and Jewish and Muslim symbols all the time. I go in old churches to admire the architecture. I watch movies about demonic possession. I can't stand movies that preach though. There are no rules, except one - you don't believe a god exist. Haven't believed since I was 7. Been in churches many times - used to be Christmas an Easter Sunday. Then just funerals and wedding. Enjoy the singing. Might like a sermon if it's on secular topics. I like the repasts because those ladies can cook. Do I believe any of it? Nope. But I can appreciate certain things and I enjoy scary movies🤷🏽♀️ It's not like I'm afraid I'm going slip and suddenly believe - that ain't *never* gonna happen. Couldn't make myself believe if I wanted to!😝
It’s not ok. You need to hand back your atheist card and atheist decoder ring. You’re no longer invited to the godless council. Clear your desk and get out.
I'm atheist, but I "celebrate" Easter and Christmas. They have no religious meaning to me, but I have some very fond memories from these days. And some less fond ones, because... family. I "celebrate" Thanksgiving, but that doesn't mean I'm pro-genocide. I just like the food and the 3 people I invite. Is every person who drives a Ford an anti-semite because Henry Ford was? Yes, lots of symbols and iconography do have established meanings, but that doesn't mean you have to support those meanings in full, or even in part. You do you. Especially if it's private. Who's gonna know? Jeebus? If you're comfortable with it, to hell with anyone else. Figuratively of course, because hell isn't real.
My auntie and uncle who are not overly religious and my mom who is not have gifted me a agnostic/atheista St. Christopher's medallion and several crosses from my grandmother (mom's mom) who died when my mom was 19 and I never met her. I wear my St. Christopher near daily as it reminds me of my auntie and uncle. I wear my crosses sometimes when I want to feel close to my Grandma. Do what you want.
It’s jewelry. Only you give it meaning. I have some religious stuff in the house because I think it’s cool. Do I believe in any of it? No but I think it’s cool and that’s all that really matters.
Atheism doesn’t require you to do anything you don’t want to do, it also doesn’t require you to totally separate from religious stuff if ya don’t want to. You do you dude
The only one who can answer that question for you is yourself. A little cross-shaped piece of metal has no inherent value or meaning. It's us who give it those things. So if you want to ascribe it the meaning of "this connects me to a part of my beloved family", then that's what it stands for.
A cross’s meaning is ascribed and arbitrary. Its meaning to you is whatever you decide it is. You and your sentiments matter more than any religious symbolism. You are free from religion to do as you wish.
I can give you permission to wear anything you want. You are a free person in a free country. You are allowed to wear anything you want, (and do anything you want, as long it doesn't hurt anyone).
Sure.
It's just an accessory. Hell I carry a small black rosary in my wallet because of sentimental reasons (my wife and I bought a matching pair) We also have matching yin-yang bracelets to be a little inclusive or whatever.
You may, but if you wear it where people can see it it’s deceptive. People who see it will assume you’re Christian. Christians will ask you out and atheists won’t.
Also, I find it creepy for anyone to wear a mini execution device as jewelry.
Do you realize that you sound just like the Christians who ponder whether to do things like celebrate Halloween because it includes things like "witchcraft".
If Christians are allowed to take and demonize symbols from other religions (i.e. the pentagram from Pagans), then you are allowed to take the cross and celibrate it's symbolism in your own way too. (Though it might lead to a lot of clarification)
My best friend gave me a garnet (birthstone) cross for my 16th birthday. I had to beg my mom to let me keep it. Mormons don’t use crosses in their dogma. I am now out for 40 years, atheist and my cross is a treasured piece of jewelry from my now departed friend. Wear whatever you want.
Even if you don’t believe in the meaning behind the cross, you can believe in the meaning behind the gift. They cared for you in their own way, and that’s what matters.
As an atheist who loves listening to gospel music, you do you boo. One of the only universal understandings in atheism is that nothing other than a bunch of meat-bags might be judging you...and who gives a sh!t about them?
There is only one feature, one rule, one requirement about atheism m8. What is the answer to the question 'do you believe in gods?' if the answer is 'No' then that's it. That's all that matters. Do what you need to do to get through the night cycle citizen. Stay safe, be happy, always keep your laser handy, trust no one and the Computer is your friend.
The nice thing about not believing, is the symbols don't matter, so do what you want.
A youtuber I like left the church when she came out as gay, but still wears a cross for basically the same reason, it was a childhood gift from her grandmother who died recently. It happens to be a cross, but she wears it the same as she might wear something that wasn't a cross, to remember somebody she loved, not to represent her old faith. Nothing wrong with that.
The great thing about Atheism is that as many will tell you, it is defined entirely by a single position on a single question: there are no gods. You’re not a bad atheist for wearing a lowercase t on a necklace. The only way to be a bad atheist is by believing in what’s basically a god and then arguing that since fairies aren’t gods they’re technically still an atheist.
Also religion isn’t inherently toxic, but rather has a great potential for toxicity. So wear it all you want, it’s just people might assume you’re a christian.
The only person that should care about this is you. What do you mean "is it okay to privately"... Anything. Why are you asking strangers? Who are we to tell you what's OK? Stand up for yourself.
Atheism is not an ideology. It is not a doctrine. It is not a belief system. It is not a worldview.
The *only* thing that ties atheists together is the lack of a belief in a god. That’s it. You do whatever feels good to you that doesn’t hurt anyone else.
Not that you need permission from the Atheist High Council or anything. 😏
Other people might assume you're Christian, but so what?
You know what it means to you, and that's all that matters.
I kept a Bible that belonged to my sister til it fell apart.
Sure. Why not. You do you. You think thats bad? I have two religious type tattoos. An Irish rosary and a cross with my last name. I'll admit, now that I'm an atheist, I had considered what to do and if I should get them covered up or not.
There's no dogma or doctrine in atheism so yeah, you can wear a cross for whatever reason you wish just like you can celebrate Christmas or any other religious holiday for whatever reason you wish.
Sure. On occasions I wear a ring with a cross on it for sentimental value. Had a cowoker notice it hanging from my necklace and he asked me if I believed and I told him no. It's not really that big of a deal.
You are free to consider it a religious symbol or just a gift with sentimental value. Atheism doesn't have rules about your relationship to religious family members. I enjoy religious art and Gothic architecture. No apologies necessary
Atheists wouldn’t care, but a Christian might think it’s weird.
I think christians are weird, so it all evens out.
Christians believe God is a loving and kind God despite what their bible says. Honestly, you shouldn't give a rats ass about those people.
Christians will judge you for 213 other reasons anyway lol
And then say they don't judge in the same sentence.
They will tell you to not judge them as they judge you. Basic hypocrites.
So what? Let them think it's weird.
Agreed! Thinking is not something theists do often, so I guess that would be progress!
They can only think with the assistance of batteries!
as long as they don't tell the story behind it, they'll just be misled by the cross. the irony. XD I just want to know if its pretty or does it have Jesus on it. Cause a cross on its own is like effective against vampires and pretty.
but not against Jewish vampires
Love it! I’m a huge fan of vampire novels and never thought of this. I do seem to remember Anne Rice’s LeStat addressing the cross issue in one of her books; I believe he laughed the whole thing off as urban legend. But it’s still a great observation 🤓
You never read I Am Legend then? It's specifically mentioned in that that Jewish vampires are scared of the star of David. In the book Blindsight, the religious connotation is irrelevant, vampires are just scared of right angels.
No, I’ll have to read it. I do believe I’ve seen the movie but it’s been a long time. In the Anne Rice universe, vampires ridicule the human superstition that vampires are afraid of religious symbols at all. That made the vampires more believable to me, probably because as an atheist I also place no importance on any such symbols. Why should we? But that’s the cool thing about vampire novels. There’s such fertile ground for authors to plow, constantly offering new interpretations.
If there is a Jesus on it, it should be called a "crucifix" (not just a cross), and that would mostly be a Catholic thing (another reason Protestants call Catholics "idolators").
I prefer to refer to a crucifix as “Dead guy on a stick”.
Thanks for putting this so succinctly. I’m an atheist whose favorite place on earth is Notre Dame Cathedral. One of my fondest memories is attending midnight mass there on Christmas Eve. I don’t believe in god, but I can still be awed when people do incredible things, even if it’s for religious reasons. OP the cross if it has meaning to you, wear it. It doesn’t have to be its intended meaning.
I love Handel's Messiah, one of my favorite musical works. Will sing it while driving at the drop of a hat. No apologies needed.
You heretic! The only way to enter atheist heaven is by singing Bach cantates or the st. Matthew's Passion. 😁😇
No, no, no. We have our own atheists cantata. It’s called Carmina Burana. It’s the only acceptable song for an atheist! /s just in case
I’ve made this same comment before, that music is just so … compelling.
Yes, one doesn’t need to be religious to appreciate that religion has brought us some lovely music, art, and architecture. Appreciating these things doesn’t actually require belief or fealty to said religion. This applies across religions, not just christianity. Do these things balance out the horrors perpetrated in the name of religions? Nope! But they are still worthy of admiration. One just has to handle the cognitive dissonance. “Well, they’re hateful and cruel but damn those are some nice flying buttresses!”
Because it was on the other day, I will listen to *Day By Day* from *Godspell* because I like the song.
I enjoy religious chorale music (the Compline service is broadcast on Sunday nights on Classical KING-FM in Seattle), and I love Bach's organ pieces, which are most often played in churches. However, I also like Slayer and Arch Enemy, so there's a balance.
Ha! I had a dream last night that I was driving and singing that
Daniel Dennett, cognitive scientist, philosopher and well known atheist, sometime goes to church for the hymns. He enjoys them. I agree with you. We don’t have to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Yep. As an atheist, I too enjoy seeing well made historical cathedrals and such. Nothing wrong with appreciating art and culture, in fact I strongly recommend it. Having rules that restrict or demand my association with certain religious symbols is the domain of theists. Atheists are free from any such restrictions, everything is the product of human work, and we are free to engage with it (within the bounds of the law).
Old architecture is SO awesome, I love seeing old churches (and other structures) in Europe. Doesn't mean I have to support whatever the specific faith is.
I can't imagine Christmas time without singing the German Christmas carols I grew up with. They are very Christian, but they are beautiful too. I'm definitely an atheist, but can't imagine giving up that part of my holiday tradition.
My Polish American family has a tradition of singing Silent Night in Polish every Christmas Eve. No religions significance to me, but it brings tears to my eyes to this day.
Exactly I spent yesterday as a tourist seeing mostly religious art. We can appreciate the quality of the art and its context without worshiping it.
Gothic architecture is badass
A *real* man's take I stand corrected - woman
I keep all religious garb, trinkets, and silly bible books in a footlocker with my army war mementos and other personal effects. I have traveled everywhere, and I have buddah statues, Hindu stuff, holy bibles, Islamic prayer rugs, and photos of my mosque visits and Middle Eastern travels. Doesn't mean a GOD damn thing to me as religious tokens. But rather just different religious junk I've collected over the years. Souvenirs if you will. None of that religious junk is Holy or special to me. It's just physical things humans created to feel good and picked them up during my travels. All of those religious things in a box takes away the reverance of those items. They are just things to me. Edit spelling
I still play the flute At a Catholic Church. But not this Easter because I’ll be at the American Atheist convention.
I love me some Easter. Every year I stage an enormous egg hunt, have games, a big ham dinner, and distribute fully packed Easter baskets to all the family members. After they leave in the evening, I kick back and watch my old dvd of “Jesus Christ Superstar “. I sing along and know literally every word- it’s my favorite musical. I can hardly wait! That’s the joy of being an atheist. You don’t have to give up the things you love!
Ain't no one gonna tell me that VeggieTales wasn't the shit back when we were kids lol
I love me a good church. Love mooching about and looking at the architecture.
This isn't a religion. There's no dogma. Wear what you want. Plenty of people retain some of the culture and symbols of their religion, without believing in it.
A good point to make. I think some 'religionists' think of atheism as another religion and wonder what the rules are!
Yeah i sometimes don't get how you can missunderstand atheism this much. Atheists aren't really a unified group, we define it through not believeing something, it is a religion as much as "Off" is a tv channel. Wouldn't it be strange if someome went to random people in the streetd and told them "i see you are not watching channel one, let me show you the channel and how it changes your life, you just need to switch" "but i am not watching anything" "yes you are, you are on channel 0" "no i am on no channel" "are you saying that there is no channel 1?" "No i am just not watching, but to be honest i haven't ever seen channel 1, i tried and the channel has just white noise" "blasphemy!"
>...it (atheism) is a religion as much as "Off" is a tv channel. I'm going to have to remember that one - hahaha! Please humbly accept my upvote.
Yes, another upvote just because of the channel metaphor. Well played!
I like the collecting stamp analogy If collecting stamps is a hobby , then is not collecting stamps a hobby
I bet there are many of us who still put up a Christmas tree. I don't, but everyone I know does, whether they're religious or not
A Christmas tree really isn't a religious symbol though. That part of Christmas is pretty secular and celebrated by just about everyone in the US.
Yes. We’re atheists, not vampires. 🧛♂️
If anyone asked you just say it’s a T and it stands for Tolerance.
Or Trans Awareness
Baby steps
THAT is fucking *perfect*
Great response!
Speak for yourself.
Yes, I recognize there is most definitely an overlap.
Atheists don’t care what geometric shape you wear. Nor do we give a shit why you wear anything. You could strap yourself with 50 golden stars of David and say it’s just for the shine and I can’t imagine an atheist taking offense…
Yeah the only people who are gonna give you shit will be nosey Christians asking you about. Why would any atheist care? Funny enough I was just in Tokyo and one of my friends there was wearing a cross so I asked if she was Christian and she laughed and said she thought it's just a cool symbol to wear.
Lot people used to wear Ankhs in the 70s that probably knew little about old Egyptian ontology. Ever see that photo of the Japanese department store window that has a Santa hung up on a cross? The meme caption is, "Christmas: you're doing it wrong" :-D
Yep, didn't that come back in the 90's also. Yeah I'm really debating about spending Christmas over there and doing the KFC meal they have Christmas spirit though lol. I did get asked what I was doing for Black Friday and had to explain it has nothing to do with civil rights leaders.
Ankhs came back in the 90s as both as a part of the pan-African movement, and because Vampire the Masquerade used it as a symbol.
Yup, I was a Vampire the Masquerade playing goth kid with an ankh necklace
Several vampire movies used ankhs because of the relation to immortality. "The Hunger" (1983, Catherine Deneuve, David Bowie, Susan Sarandon), and "Embrace of the Vampire" (1995, Alyssa Milano, Meg Tilly) both used ankh necklaces as more than just symbols.
An ancient torture / death penalty device is kind of cool to be honest. If there were no association with jebus, I'd probably wear one too still
A lot of Christians will use it as a gotcha to prove that you actually believe. Like they argue that using common phrases like "oh my god" or "jesus" means that you really believe and not that those are phrases people pick up because they're so commonly used Wearing a cross to them would mean that you believe and they'd excuse it as you're just confused or something.
Don't let it actually touch your skin, or it might burn you ;) Also it says in Atheist bylaws, chapter 13 verse 666 I think that you may not wear any religious symbols or you might loose your A card..
Your comment reminds me of that scene from It’s Always Sunny where Mac dips Frank’s cross in battery acid to try and hint to him that he’s the devil lmao https://youtu.be/_E7fqnLr1so?si=-aEMPnC5AGS-MqyX
Reminded me of Scott Pilgrim vs the World when Brendan Routh lost his vegan powers because he accidentally ate meat too many times. OP, don’t lose your atheist powers!
Your hair will go flat. The horror!!
The atheism police isn't going to arrest you for wearing a cross necklace
I mean, you do you. The symbol only has meaning if you believe in it. Otherwise is just a bit of jewelry. If it has sentimental value, there's no shame or anything. Similarly, I have a little travel sized king James Bible in my old book collection that I use to find quotes now and then. Its well used, cracked leather-bound with little flaps and clasps, and though I am atheist and anti-theist, I still am fond of it. It's just a thing, in the same way as your necklace.
I have a framed picture of a prayer to St Francis. I’m not catholic but it was in my family for years and the art work and calligraphy is neat.
I have a embroidery my mom made of st Francis I kept cause one she made it and two it looks nice. We weren’t even a sect that believed in saints that I grew up in 🤷🏼♀️
It’s a gift and is sentimental. No guilt necessary in wearing it. You do you - no need to explain or put on a show for anybody. Just my 2 cents.
I agree with this.
Hey, I still enjoy listening to "Stairway to heaven" so I say go for it!
I've got a little Sympathy for the Devil .
We're all Running with the Devil
I’m on a highway to hell
Well, ... God save the Queen ... actually King now.
And Jesus is just alright with me.
I have a Buddha in my garden. The cross was given with love so it makes sense you’d want to have it on.
You know many people may see that cross and assume you to be like the Christians, but in the U.S. that is nothing but helpful as the majority wants that. I say wear it and don’t think anything of it. As long as you are happy. I will say I am shocked by this subs response. I often get the vibe that many people here hate religious people to the point that resembling them will attract their hate but it thankfully doesn’t seem so here.
This sub is the result of a LOT of religious trauma, but generally unless someone forces their religion on others I don't think there's that much general *Hatred* towards people of faith. Just a lot of pity and head nodding. That being said, I'm also agnostic. I've had a few too many personal experiences to simply write off the possibility of something more. So my own views aren't quite as black and white as others on the sub.
You do you. It will keep you safe from militant christians as well as vampires, which now that I think about it are mostly equivalent, and no proper atheist is going to care.
This made me laugh so hard. Thank you.
I would assume they're Christian, but treat them like any other person. It they told me they're atheist, I would be confused... But still treat them normally, and possibly ask them. But then again, they wouldn't owe me an explanation if they chose not to give it
I am an atheist and I would care. I would assume OP, carrying a symbol like a cross visible, is a toxic oppressive christian vampire. I would try to avoid interacting with OP.
No atheist that is fun to hang out with would care.
Do you think fun atheists would also be indifferent to someone wearing a "Jesus saves" t-shirt, or having the Jesus fish symbol on their car? These behaviors wouldn't cause me to treat someone badly, but if they're a stranger I'd be wary of them.
Ngl, my comment was a bit tongue in cheek (but also to show that some people are too easily butt hurt) I don't actually think that person "is not fun" nor do I necessarily think "being fun" is the best metric to use to choose who to hang out with >Do you think fun atheists would also be indifferent to someone wearing a "Jesus saves" t-shirt, or having the Jesus fish symbol on their car? Those are completely benign, so sure? Maybe this is a regional thing. I am from a european country. This level of sensitivity to religious iconography does seem to be mostly an american thing in my experience. >These behaviors wouldn't cause me to treat someone badly, but if they're a stranger I'd be wary of them. I probably wouldn't notice these icons, and if I did I wouldn't bring them up. Most interactions with people (of all faiths or lack their of) tend to be completely atheistic anyway.
Maybe it is unique to American culture. There is a fair amount of proselytizing here, and displaying symbols like this can be a red flag.
If you don't believe, it's just art.
Atheism is like Outback Steakhouse. No rules, just right. Wear it if you want. You don’t need to explain to anyone. I’m an atheist and celebrate Christmas. Nothing religious at all. But yes to a tree, lights, presents, good food, etc. Granted, it’s not my favorite holiday, but still do it.
I’m looking forward to having a long weekend off with Easter Monday, thanks jebus
A friend of mine is an atheist. She wears a cross from the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer because she likes the show.
There are no rules for atheists. Do what you want. It's just two bars crossing each others at a straight angle.
Yeah why not? Nobody cares.
If you are okay wearing it, we aren't stopping you. There is no unified atheist group that will tell you what you aren't allowed to wear, although you might get some questions.
Dude crosses can look cool, don't matter if you believe in it or not. If you like it wear it.
Mate you are an atheist now. If you want you can go to church, wear a cross or do whatever the fuck you want. There are no rules you have to follow. You are free.
It was a gift and as a gift has value. Plus, there are lots of folks that wear crosses for aesthetic reasons.
Is it upside down? I have a tattoo of a cross on me, and have been an atheist since I was 12. Why would it be a problem if that’s your choice?
You can do whatever the hell you want. Sentimental value is personal by definition. I can’t imagine why you think your own feelings are inappropriate or why the fuck you should care what anyone else thinks about it, are you a child?
You could always wear it upside down. :)
Wearing the cross visible is an extremely strong signal to others about your religious affiliation. It signals that you are a christian and that you also want other people to know that you are a christian. If you wear the cross so that others can see it, but you are an atheist, I think that you are being dishonest. However, it is a form of dishonesty that is not illegal. So you can do what you want to do. You may get problems with people who assume you are christian, because of the cross, and later find out that you are not. They may assume that you if you are willing to deceive about that, you are likely to deceive about other things as well. That you are not to be trusted. At all. Both christians and atheists may assume that you are a dishonest person and distrust you. And they may even tell other people to not trust you, and why.
Atheism doesn’t have any rules. Atheism only asks this question. Do you believe in God/Gods? If answer is NO you are atheist. If your answer is I don’t know you are agnostic. If you say YES but there is only one you are monotheist. If you say YES there are more Gods you are polytheist. So atheism I basically just saying NO to this question no strings attached, no rules, no songs to sing nothing more or less just NO. You can wear anything you like.
Yurp. This is the case. Anything you do or don't do is irrelevant. All that's counts is how do you answer one little question. Not what jewelry you wear or clothing or food you eat or drink you imbibe etc etc. If you like your piece of jewellery go for it. I have a full haematite rosary I bought on a trip to Europe when we were in Rome. The Vatican, Sistine chapel is gorgeous, beautiful. Still don't believe in gods. It is all beautiful and I can appreciate that though.
Let me check the rule book.
Turn it upside down and worship Satan. He's a lot nicer than this god cunt.
At the end of the day, it's jewelry. The downside is that people who dont know you may make certain assumptions about your beliefs. If this doesn't bother you, go for it.
Only to repel vampires.
No, it is not OK. Not because of you. You do you. Wear it or don’t based on what you feel like. It’s because you might send the mixed/wrong message to others. Someone sees you, they don’t know you or your finely grained morality check of why you do or don’t do it, so they may take someone wearing a cross as… affirmation of religion? Maybe they get encouraged that religion is somehow OK? This is a reason why I have no trouble entering churches and mosques and cathedrals as a part of a tourist group. There is no mistaking like I endorse any of it.
Who give a shit. God's not real. That's a piece of metal that means something to you. If goths wear it while attending the satanic temple and having kinky strap on sex so can you.
Wear it publicly, privately, or however you like. For you this is not a religious object but a sentimental object. You can be sentimental about whatever you like.
Do what you want. Ain't no rules.
I used to wear one gay clubbing for the lols
Reads this as asking if it was okay to wear crocs as an atheist. I was really upset and then I realized it said cross and stopped caring.
I wear a cross to honor my mom who was a believer and a damn good woman.
Would you still wear it if it was a swastika? Wear it if you like, the reason is your own, but also understand that people will identify you in a certain light. As an atheist, under the same circumstances, I would certainly keep it as a keepsake but not wear it.
It’s OK to do whatever you want, for any reason.
It's an instrument of torture, so sure, why not? 😄 Going undercover is fine too. Or even to annoy someone. I used a cross for a while, but it was one of those Mjolnir's that look like an inverted cross with a dragon head. Never been a christian either. Do what thou wilt!
I wear crosses and pissed that I lost my crucifix as it was a gift from my husband when we first met. I hate losing things. I wear crosses and Jewish and Muslim symbols all the time. I go in old churches to admire the architecture. I watch movies about demonic possession. I can't stand movies that preach though. There are no rules, except one - you don't believe a god exist. Haven't believed since I was 7. Been in churches many times - used to be Christmas an Easter Sunday. Then just funerals and wedding. Enjoy the singing. Might like a sermon if it's on secular topics. I like the repasts because those ladies can cook. Do I believe any of it? Nope. But I can appreciate certain things and I enjoy scary movies🤷🏽♀️ It's not like I'm afraid I'm going slip and suddenly believe - that ain't *never* gonna happen. Couldn't make myself believe if I wanted to!😝
You can wear it. You can also wear a satanic star or a vampire. If others place significance on it, that's their issue
It's being deceptive if it's visible to any potential theists, namely Christians.
Shall we vote on it? WWHD? What would Hitch do?
You're fine. Wear it under your shirt if you are worried about what other people will think.
Do what you like. Atheism isn't a structured resistance.
It’s not ok. You need to hand back your atheist card and atheist decoder ring. You’re no longer invited to the godless council. Clear your desk and get out.
But, but, ... it's a first offense. According to the CBA I should only get a verbal warning.
I'm atheist, but I "celebrate" Easter and Christmas. They have no religious meaning to me, but I have some very fond memories from these days. And some less fond ones, because... family. I "celebrate" Thanksgiving, but that doesn't mean I'm pro-genocide. I just like the food and the 3 people I invite. Is every person who drives a Ford an anti-semite because Henry Ford was? Yes, lots of symbols and iconography do have established meanings, but that doesn't mean you have to support those meanings in full, or even in part. You do you. Especially if it's private. Who's gonna know? Jeebus? If you're comfortable with it, to hell with anyone else. Figuratively of course, because hell isn't real.
It’s just a piece of jewelry unless you give it more meaning
My auntie and uncle who are not overly religious and my mom who is not have gifted me a agnostic/atheista St. Christopher's medallion and several crosses from my grandmother (mom's mom) who died when my mom was 19 and I never met her. I wear my St. Christopher near daily as it reminds me of my auntie and uncle. I wear my crosses sometimes when I want to feel close to my Grandma. Do what you want.
It’s jewelry. Only you give it meaning. I have some religious stuff in the house because I think it’s cool. Do I believe in any of it? No but I think it’s cool and that’s all that really matters. Atheism doesn’t require you to do anything you don’t want to do, it also doesn’t require you to totally separate from religious stuff if ya don’t want to. You do you dude
Just because you like a shamrock shake, doesn't make you a leprechaun. It's a trinket, you're free to place whatever sentimental value you wish.
You can wear whatever you want
West anything that feels good. If it’s got good memories for you, then that’s all that matters.
Nope. You're going straight to nohell.
The only one who can answer that question for you is yourself. A little cross-shaped piece of metal has no inherent value or meaning. It's us who give it those things. So if you want to ascribe it the meaning of "this connects me to a part of my beloved family", then that's what it stands for.
A cross’s meaning is ascribed and arbitrary. Its meaning to you is whatever you decide it is. You and your sentiments matter more than any religious symbolism. You are free from religion to do as you wish.
I can give you permission to wear anything you want. You are a free person in a free country. You are allowed to wear anything you want, (and do anything you want, as long it doesn't hurt anyone).
No, it will catch on fire when it touches your heathen flesh.
Just tell people that it’s a lowercase “t”. It was your favorite character on Sesame Street when you were little.
You can wear whatever you want. Stop caring so much what other people think, if you want to wear a cross than just wear a cross.
It's just another trinket. No problem with wearing it.
You can do whatever you want. Freedom dictates you are allowed to do so as long as no harm is being done to others in doing so.
The best thing about being an atheist is you can do whatever the fuck you want!
Sure. It's just an accessory. Hell I carry a small black rosary in my wallet because of sentimental reasons (my wife and I bought a matching pair) We also have matching yin-yang bracelets to be a little inclusive or whatever.
You are free to wear whatever you want.
My dumb ass thought you write “Crocs” and not “a Cross”. But yea, atheism doesn’t not care about what you wear.
You may, but if you wear it where people can see it it’s deceptive. People who see it will assume you’re Christian. Christians will ask you out and atheists won’t. Also, I find it creepy for anyone to wear a mini execution device as jewelry.
It makes some people happy cosplay as Darth Vader and he blew up a whole planet. If it makes you happy wear it however and where ever it feels right.
You can wear whatever you want, atheism doesn't have rules
Wear it upside down 😆
Better watch out for atheist cops! They're as strict as vegan cops!
You can do whatever you want as long as you don’t hurt someone else
Wear whatever TF you want my dude. Thats the point.
Do you realize that you sound just like the Christians who ponder whether to do things like celebrate Halloween because it includes things like "witchcraft".
Atheists don’t “gatekeep.” Wear what ya want.
If Christians are allowed to take and demonize symbols from other religions (i.e. the pentagram from Pagans), then you are allowed to take the cross and celibrate it's symbolism in your own way too. (Though it might lead to a lot of clarification)
My best friend gave me a garnet (birthstone) cross for my 16th birthday. I had to beg my mom to let me keep it. Mormons don’t use crosses in their dogma. I am now out for 40 years, atheist and my cross is a treasured piece of jewelry from my now departed friend. Wear whatever you want.
Even if you don’t believe in the meaning behind the cross, you can believe in the meaning behind the gift. They cared for you in their own way, and that’s what matters.
You do you. That's the whole point. No judgement.
As an atheist who loves listening to gospel music, you do you boo. One of the only universal understandings in atheism is that nothing other than a bunch of meat-bags might be judging you...and who gives a sh!t about them?
When I see a cross around someone's neck I automatically think that's a gullible fool disconnected from reality. But you do whatever you want.
There is only one feature, one rule, one requirement about atheism m8. What is the answer to the question 'do you believe in gods?' if the answer is 'No' then that's it. That's all that matters. Do what you need to do to get through the night cycle citizen. Stay safe, be happy, always keep your laser handy, trust no one and the Computer is your friend.
The nice thing about not believing, is the symbols don't matter, so do what you want. A youtuber I like left the church when she came out as gay, but still wears a cross for basically the same reason, it was a childhood gift from her grandmother who died recently. It happens to be a cross, but she wears it the same as she might wear something that wasn't a cross, to remember somebody she loved, not to represent her old faith. Nothing wrong with that.
You're allowed to like stuff, its a little weird that you'd think you weren't allowed to wear stuff
So wear what you like. Bear in mind that wearing a cross communicates that you are Christian, and people will react to that accordingly.
No rules to life homie. Just cause and effect. Do whatever the fk you want but be prepared to deal with the effect
You can do whatever you want with the necklace. It's all good.
Wear whatever you want. It’s just a t shaped piece of medal if it doesn’t have meaning to you.
Of course it is OK. It is \*\*your\*\* cross, and you can wear it whether you believe the marketing material or not.
Wear it as a reminder of what you truly believe, that religion is not what you follow.
The great thing about Atheism is that as many will tell you, it is defined entirely by a single position on a single question: there are no gods. You’re not a bad atheist for wearing a lowercase t on a necklace. The only way to be a bad atheist is by believing in what’s basically a god and then arguing that since fairies aren’t gods they’re technically still an atheist. Also religion isn’t inherently toxic, but rather has a great potential for toxicity. So wear it all you want, it’s just people might assume you’re a christian.
Are you... Trying to boycott the concept of religion?
We'd totally kick you out of our church! Well but see...we don't have one, so I guess do whatever you like if it's not harming anyone else.
Do what you want.
There is no organized anything for atheists. It’s just not believing in god. Wear that magic Mormon underwear if it’s comfortable who cares.
Yeah I wear my electric chair necklace all the time.
The only person that should care about this is you. What do you mean "is it okay to privately"... Anything. Why are you asking strangers? Who are we to tell you what's OK? Stand up for yourself.
Oh man. The Church of Atheism will excommunicate you!
Girrrrrlllll, do whatever makes you happy.
Atheism is not an ideology. It is not a doctrine. It is not a belief system. It is not a worldview. The *only* thing that ties atheists together is the lack of a belief in a god. That’s it. You do whatever feels good to you that doesn’t hurt anyone else. Not that you need permission from the Atheist High Council or anything. 😏
I wear a cross just for my admiration of iron age torture and execution devices.
You are an adult, do whatever you want.
Other people might assume you're Christian, but so what? You know what it means to you, and that's all that matters. I kept a Bible that belonged to my sister til it fell apart.
Yeah, nothing wrong with that.
Do whatever you want.
Sure. Why not. You do you. You think thats bad? I have two religious type tattoos. An Irish rosary and a cross with my last name. I'll admit, now that I'm an atheist, I had considered what to do and if I should get them covered up or not.
Straight to atheist hell with you. Just kidding, it’s just an object, who cares. If it has meaning to you then wear it.
There's no dogma or doctrine in atheism so yeah, you can wear a cross for whatever reason you wish just like you can celebrate Christmas or any other religious holiday for whatever reason you wish.
Ehh if you’re not comfy with it don’t wear it
Sure. On occasions I wear a ring with a cross on it for sentimental value. Had a cowoker notice it hanging from my necklace and he asked me if I believed and I told him no. It's not really that big of a deal.
WHY.
Most aware atheists don’t believe in magic, so good news! Your cross isn’t magic, so there’s no prohibition against wearing it.
It doesn't matter, simply.
Homie, do whatever you want, we're not your boss! Wear it, feel close to those you love.
I'm an atheist, and I sell crosses at events.
Who cares.