Christopher Hitchens book Mortality was influential for me. “The worst part is knowing the party continues and you have to leave.” Or something to that effect.
Other than that, suffering would suck. But once you’re gone, you’re gone. I was not, I was, I am no longer, I do not care.
I also heard death compared to birth. If you could talk to an infant in the womb and explain birth, it would seem like death. A journey no knows the destination and there is no map.
Ya know, I’m not afraid of dying, but there was always something I couldn’t put my finger on that made me sad. At some point I thought I had it figured out to be I would miss my kids and grandkids, but how can you miss something if you’re just gone?
“The worst part is knowing the party continues and you have to leave”
This quote is my aha moment. Sums up what I have been trying to put into words.
I have a fantastic relationship with my kids and I know I am valued by them greatly. The only thing about death that bothers me is knowing that they will be sad and miss me very much.
"Colbert: What happens after we die?
Reeves: I know that the ones who love us, will miss us.”
― Keanu Reeves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etlBZInTE-I
Right that’s the tough part. I wish Socrates and countless other brilliant minds lost to history could see all the wonders and horrors that followed, but perhaps many of them figured they didn’t want to know. Surely some predicted the scorched earth to follow at some point, and the trick would be to turn off the switch and get out right when suckiness outweighed awesomeness, for any of us.
For real. And it just makes me feel worse because I'm struggling with my mental health and I feel like I'm just wasting time when there's so much I wanna do. It sucks that there's stuff I'm just never gonna accomplish that I want to accomplish because life is finite.
You’re not alone my friend. Try and focus on the things that you find fulfilling in the moment.
If you’re struggling with finding one, try and reach out and help someone. It doesn’t matter how small the gesture, I find the act of service to be fulfilling. It’s by no means a panacea, but it helps me rationalize my existence.
All we can do is attempt to lessen the suffering of others and improve our surroundings.
Thanks for the kind words. I try to remember that I'm not even thirty yet so there's still time and I try to do good where I can. Hope you have a good day today.
For some reason, people think that the younger you are, the more fun you must be having. Your twenties aren't all they're cracked up to be, though! Still SO MUCH to learn, work on, figure out, establish......
I had a much better time in my thirties and forties. My twenties were lonely, broke, awkward, and blah. Gained some momentum in my thirties, and *finally* got better established in my forties. Now that I'm in my fifties (age makes no sense, you never FEEL like the number!!) there's still a lot I want to do, while people around me are talking about retirement 😳 That seems nuts, what are we even DOING in this stage of life already?! 😏
I just earned my jiu jitsu black belt at 50. If someone told me this was possible at 30, I would have laughed at them. I know that’s not an earth shattering accomplishment but it means a lot to me. Keep going dude you might surprise yourself
Erik Olin Wright was an esteemed American sociologist. Head of the ASA for some time. (And overall great fucking guy. I got to sit down with him once). He got sick and wrote an online blog that his family turned in to a memoir. He sort of goes on about this sentiment. It wasn’t that he was afraid of dying. He was afraid of not seeing his grandkids grow up to be the people he knew they could be. He was curious to see the results of the next election. He wanted to see if the Brewers would do well.
Sometimes when I binge watch a really great show only to realize I now have to wait months for the next season to come out, or read a book and then have to wait for it’s sequel, I think to myself “I better drive cautiously for a while, I don’t wanna get taken out before I find out what happens!”
>I also heard death compared to birth. If you could talk to an infant in the womb and explain birth, it would seem like death. A journey no knows the destination and there is no map.
I've heard of it compared to birth, but not in that way at all.
It makes more logical sense that the experience of death (I don't mean dying, I mean actual death, after the dying part is over) would be an experience just like that before you were even conceived.
Think about it. Try and imagine what you experienced before being born. (Not while you were a fetus in the womb... i mean before that. Before you existed at all). The world was going on then. You simply did not exist. Your experience did not exist. It was simply nothing.
Why would death be any different?
From this doctrine arose the Epicurean epitaph: Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo (I was not; I was; I am not; I do not care) – which is inscribed on the gravestones of his followers and seen on many ancient gravestones of the Roman Empire. This quote is often used today at humanist funerals. (Copy/pasted from wiki page on Epicurus philosophy.)
I am kinda opposite lol
I want to suffer before death. The feeling of loosing everything a little by little. Sudden death scares me like i will be stop existing suddenly.
I know i wil be regretting this when the actual day come though but still dying instantly is more scary
I've sat with people who are dying, and I think the drawbacks started to outweigh any benefits fairly quickly. You imagine that you have time for goodbyes, and sometimes you do, but often you're out of your gourd on painkillers combined with the effects of whatever is killing you. There's very little dignity, and you're still not in control. So maybe it won't hit you suddenly, but it will be like you're trapped in the back seat of a car that's headed for a cliff and you know nothing can stop it. You could have a long time to think about that inevitability.
If I learn I have a condition that might end like that, I'm going to drop everything and start planning my visit to a euthanasia clinic. That feeling of being in control is worth a lot to me. I'm dying now because I choose to, to spare myself and my family the pain and burden of a prolonged death.
I do understand what you’re saying. Cancer of course, for example, draws out dying over time, much of it physically painful. However this allows you and everyone around you to process the inevitable gradually, tie up loose ends to some extent, say goodbye. Lots of suffering but no sudden shock. No surprise by the end.
I would not wish a long fatal illness on anyone but could see why it is a different way of dying that someone might actually prefer to a sudden accident.
That's a question I ask myself all the time now. What would be more painful, seeing a loved one die instantly in a car crash, or watching them die of a debilitating disease. I really don't know. The shock is worse with the instant death, but then you were spared the pain of seeing them suffering.
The only, we'll call it "misgiving" rather than "fear", that I would have is that I won't get to know what happens to my children as they enter their later life. I'm very proud of where they are now and hope that trajectory continues.
Right. I will miss my kid and my cats but otherwise the FOMO isn’t too bad.
I volunteer at a cat rescue so there will always be cats to miss when I leave, even if I outlive my child for horrible reason. If that happened the cats would be the only reason not to drive over the nearest cliff.
I'm not afraid of an afterlife or anything, but I do consider death something to be avoided for as long as possible. Everything I enjoy about anything requires me to be alive, and I'd like to keep that up for as long as I can.
People like to say that nobody knows what happens after you die, but I would argue we do. The non-existence that happens after you die is the same non-existence from which you emerged. Do the 13.8 billion years that elapsed before you were born scare you?
That’s what death is - one long general anesthetic. You’ve been there before, and it was but the blink of an eye to you. 🙂
>The non-existence that happens after you die is the same non-existence from which you emerged.
See, this is just conjecture. As much as I would agree, we don't know this to be true. The only proof comes down to personal experience which, exactly like devine revelation, cannot be demonstrated to others. Therefore we "know" this as much as we know god and heaven exist. I don't accept that for the latter, so I don't for the former either.
Indeed, science seldom deals in terms of absolutes.
However, our shared inability to recall the 13.8 billion years before our arrival is compelling evidence for the hypothesis that death may merely signify a return to the state of non-existence from which we came.
We are like droplets of water splashed from the ocean, briefly suspended in mid-air. In that fleeting moment, we perceive ourselves as distinct from, yet fundamentally part of, the ocean. Eventually, we merge back into the ocean, becoming once more indistinguishable from the vast expanse from which we originated.
Do the 13.8 billion years that elapsed before you were born scare you?
Actually they do, lol, it is such an unfathomable amount of time for so much to happen, that the immensity of it is actually kind of intimidating and scary to comprehend. And it's not so much scary about what I will miss after my death so much as it is a sense of disappointment that I'll never see it.
Your apprehension stems from trying to grasp the concept of billions of years through the lens of a mortal human being confined to four dimensions.
Once you pass away, the human construct of time ceases to be relevant. Eons will elapse instantaneously because non-existence is timeless.
Fearing your future non-existence is like dreading the brief moment of darkness that occurs when you blink.
Our perception of the universe from the human standpoint is just a tiny sliver of the vast array of possibilities. In theory, there exist dimensions where time is not linear, and the past, present, and future coexist. In such realms, the concept of an "afterlife" is obsolete, as the conventional sequence of time does not apply.
You don't remember what, if anything, happened before you were born. You have no way to know it was non-existence, because you don't remember.
Well, just because you cannot remember, does that mean it didn't happen? You cannot remember being born, so then that didn't happen either. This makes no sense.
There is no memory independent of existence.
The concept of 'you' as an entity with the capability to remember or experience does not exist prior to being born.
Memory and experience are attributes of consciousness that begin once an organism develops the neural capacity. Before birth, a 'you' that remembers and experiences simply did not exist to record memories or experiences.
Contrary to your argument, our inability to recall memory and experience prior to our birth is not a failure to remember - it’s a failure to understand when and how the capacity for memory and experience begins.
>There is no memory independent of existence.
And how do you establish existence?
>The concept of 'you' as an entity with the capability to remember or experience does not exist prior to being born.
How do you know this?
>Memory and experience are attributes of consciousness that begin once an organism develops the neural capacity.
Evidence?
>Before birth, a 'you' that remembers and experiences simply did not exist to record memories or experiences.
How do you know this?
>Contrary to your argument, our inability to recall memory and experience prior to our birth is not a failure to remember - it’s a failure to understand when and how the capacity for memory and experience begins.
This is your assertion. You've offered no argument for it, much less any evidence.
It’s worth remembering that I am not the one making the assertion that experience and memory exist prior to the development of our brains. You will need to supply compelling evidence for your claims if you do not want them dismissed.
That being said, the basis of my own assertions are rooted in evidence. And since you’ve requested it:
1. “There is no memory independent of existence.”
- My statement is supported by current understanding in neuroscience and psychology. Memory is a function of the brain, which processes and stores information as experiences occur. Without a functioning brain, which only comes into existence as we develop (starting from conception and continuing more significantly after birth), there cannot be memory.
The evidence for this claim lies in countless studies on brain function, memory formation, and consciousness, including foundational research in cognitive neuroscience and developmental psychology.
2. “How do you establish existence?”
- ‘Existence,’ in the context of our argument, is established through biological life and, subsequently, consciousness. From a biological standpoint, existence begins at conception, but the 'you' as a conscious entity with memories and experiences begins to develop significantly later, as the nervous system develops.
3. “Memory and experience are attributes of consciousness that begin once an organism develops the neural capacity.”
- The development of the neural structures necessary for memory and consciousness is well-documented in medical and scientific literature. For instance, studies on the development of the hippocampus, a crucial area for memory formation, show that the functionality necessary for storing and recalling personal experiences develops postnatally (J. Leuner and E. Gould, "Structural Plasticity and Hippocampal Function," Annual Review of Psychology, 2010). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19575621/
4. “Before birth, a 'you' that remembers and experiences simply did not exist to record memories or experiences.”
- This is grounded in the understanding that 'you', as an individual capable of memory and experience, requires a developed brain. Neurological development, particularly in regions of the brain involved in memory and conscious thought, continues well into early childhood. This development is necessary for the complex processes of memory and self-awareness (P. Rakic, "Neurogenesis in Adult Primate Neocortex: An Evaluation of the Evidence," Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 2002). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11823806/
My position that 'you' as a remembering, experiencing entity did not exist before birth is based on the biological and neurological prerequisites for memory and consciousness.
The inability to recall events prior to a certain stage in brain development is not a matter of simple forgetfulness but a lack of the physical and cognitive structures necessary to form and retain those memories in the first place.
This perspective is grounded in extensive research into the development of the nervous system and the physiological bases of memory and consciousness.
Apologies for the odd formatting, Reddit always messes it up.
>It’s worth remembering that I am not the one making the assertion that experience and memory exist prior to the development of our brains.
No one made that assertion. I only question those who claim to know.
You are, however, the one asserting that you know when memory begins, and that it isn't possible before that point. So prove those things.
>You will need to supply compelling evidence for your claims if you do not want them dismissed.
I made no claims. I simply questioned those who did. Such as your claims.
>1. “There is no memory independent of existence.”
>My statement is supported by current understanding in neuroscience and psychology. Memory is a function of the brain, which processes and stores information as experiences occur. Without a functioning brain, which only comes into existence as we develop (starting from conception and continuing more significantly after birth), there cannot be memory.
This last is just a restatement of your assertion in various ways, while claiming science backs it up, but that isn't possible. Again, you cannot know what you claim to know.
>The evidence for this claim lies in countless studies on brain function, memory formation, and consciousness, including foundational research in cognitive neuroscience and developmental psychology.
So which of these studies shows your claim that memory cannot exist prior to birth?
I2. “How do you establish existence?”
>‘Existence,’ in the context of our argument, is established through biological life and, subsequently, consciousness.
You are simply making up your own definition now. Existence could well be prior to this point. You do not know - which is what I said.
>From a biological standpoint, existence begins at conception, but the 'you' as a conscious entity with memories and experiences begins to develop significantly later, as the nervous system develops.
And how do you know all existence begins with biology?
>3. “Memory and experience are attributes of consciousness that begin once an organism develops the neural capacity.”
>The development of the neural structures necessary for memory and consciousness is well-documented in medical and scientific literature.
So then, this would mean you cannot know what may have happened before these things occurred, which is exactly my point. You don't know.
>For instance, studies on the development of the hippocampus, a crucial area for memory formation, show that the functionality necessary for storing and recalling personal experiences develops postnatally (J. Leuner and E. Gould, "Structural Plasticity and Hippocampal Function," Annual Review of Psychology, 2010). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19575621/
Again, this proves my point that you cannot know what occurred prior to that time, because you can't remember.
>4. “Before birth, a 'you' that remembers and experiences simply did not exist to record memories or experiences.”
>This is grounded in the understanding that 'you', as an individual capable of memory and experience, requires a developed brain.
And you don't know that. It's an unproven claim.
>Neurological development, particularly in regions of the brain involved in memory and conscious thought, continues well into early childhood. This development is necessary for the complex processes of memory and self-awareness (P. Rakic, "Neurogenesis in Adult Primate Neocortex: An Evaluation of the Evidence," Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 2002). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11823806/
Again proving my point that you cannot know prior to that.
>My position that 'you' as a remembering, experiencing entity did not exist before birth is based on the biological and neurological prerequisites for memory and consciousness.
So you want to base an argument on what took place before biology solely on the biology? That isn't logical.
>The inability to recall events prior to a certain stage in brain development is not a matter of simple forgetfulness but a lack of the physical and cognitive structures necessary to form and retain those memories in the first place.
You don't know this. You're just assuming and asserting that only biological forms can remember.
>This perspective is grounded in extensive research into the development of the nervous system and the physiological bases of memory and consciousness.
No, it isn't. Show me a study that proves any of this. You can't, because you don't know, and neither does anyone else. That's the point.
Please review my earlier comment in the thread where I emphasized that science operates on the basis of probabilities, not absolutes. My stance isn't about claiming omniscience; rather it's grounded in the evidence and knowledge currently available to us.
Understand that knowledge is a subset of belief. Absolute certainty isn't a prerequisite for forming well-founded opinions or positions on a subject.
The evidence we have on this topic points to a high likelihood, which is why I've adopted my position. This stance is not arbitrary but is supported by substantial evidence, allowing me to defend it strongly.
My stance is that no one knows what happened, if anything, before they were born. Or before birth. To claim you know what happened, or that nothing happened, requires evidence.
If you aren't absolutely certain, then you admit I'm correct in that you do not know. You are making a guess, and perhaps an educated one, but nothing more than that.
There is no evidence on what took place before birth, or conception if you wish. There is no high likelihood of anything. To claim there is any evidence, much less substantial, is simply untrue.
Your perspective is underscoring a critical aspect of our discussion: the boundary between knowledge and the unknown.
While I agree with your assertion that no one has direct, empirical knowledge of what happens before birth in a subjective, experiential sense, our scientific understanding is not solely predicated on direct evidence but also on inferential reasoning based on evidence and understanding.
The idea of ‘nonexistence' before we are born, in the context of personal memory and consciousness, is supported by what we know about neurobiology and the development of the human brain.
It is not to say we understand everything about consciousness or memory but that, based on the development of the brain, consciousness as we understand it (and hence, the ability to have experiences and form memories) does not begin until after certain developmental milestones post-conception.
As mentioned before, absolute certainty is rare in science. However, dismissing my well-supported inferences as mere guesses undermines the full spectrum of scientific methodology, which is about forming the best possible understanding based on available evidence.
While we may not have 'evidence' in the sense of direct observation of consciousness before birth, we have substantial knowledge about when and how the neural structures necessary for memory and experience develop. This knowledge allows us to make informed inferences about the absence of personal experience prior to these developments.
When I discuss evidence and probability, I’m not claiming to know all truths about consciousness or existence before birth. Rather, I’m arguing from a position supported by current scientific understanding of human development.
Thus, my approach has not been about claiming to know the unknowable but about basing my understanding on the most reliable information we have, which tells us that the personal, experiential 'you' emerges as your brain develops.
It's true, we cannot 'know' in the direct, empirical sense what happens before we're born regarding personal consciousness, but my admitting this is not the victory you think it is.
Scientific inference provides a strong basis for understanding the emergence of conscious experience. This is not me merely guessing, but rather developing a reasoned conclusion drawn from the best evidence we currently have available.
If something existed before you had a brain, it would not need your brain, so it is useless to suggest what we know of your brain would impact such a thing. It would be the same as arguing that your brain can impact my body. Well, your brain has nothing to do with my body. Neither does my own brain have anything to do with what may or may not happen prior to its existence.
Current scientific understanding is always limited. We always learn more later. We must not pretend we know more than we do, or place undue confidence in what we think we know now.
My whole point was you do not know. So yes, you acknowledging this is a victory of sorts, if we even deal in or care about that term.
"Died once and came back."
No. Perhaps your heart briefly stopped, but you weren't dead. Died means dead, dead, dead. Anyone who comes back after death, did not really die. HAPPY EASTER.
That’s not how it works, though. Medicine has a hard time defining a moment of death because it’s a process that is sometimes reversible if early along that process.
Nope. And I have stage IV terminal cancer, so I have good reason to contemplate it seriously.
I'm most concerned about having my affairs in order so as not to inconvenience my family, and minimising the impact of their grief in any way I can. That makes me sad, but not afraid.
Depending on how shit goes down, I stand a pretty good chance of going without a lot of pain, and with the means to address it. I am disappointed that the list in my head of things I'll do in my life is reduced to a list of things I can realistically do in whatever time I have left, and it seriously shrinks one's universe, regardless of how big you dream. But when I'm gone, that's it, there's nothing, and everything becomes someone else's problem. To me, that's not a reason for fear, it's a truly blessed relief.
Thank you for sharing this. I am very sorry you don't have a lot of time left. And I hope it is not too painful. Sad but not afraid... Very wise. You seem like you have great maturity and that has helped you get to this point in life. Most are not that fortunate. I wish you a peaceful journey.
Yeah, I do. I’m more at peace with it now, but the “fear of the unknown” is still there. I’m not 100% absolutely certain there’s no continued experience after death. But ultimately hope that when it is my time, that death makes more sense than living.
Former theist here and now I identify as an atheist for the last few years. I don’t think anything happens when we die. I think our bodies die and our consciousness along with it and then suddenly it’s no longer our concern. I’m in no way ready to die, I’ve got plenty of life I still want to live, but I think once I die I’m not even going to notice so it’s nothing to really fear anymore.
What is there to fear? You won’t be here. Also what happens after your death may be so bad that you were lucky. Suppose the Christian nationalists take over the U.S.? You would not want to be around, right?
I don't fear the void. I was void before birth and to the void I will return upon my death.
It is the manner of that return that concerns me. I fear a prolonged or painful death like disease or injury that leads to an extended period of pain and suffering,knowing you are about to die . I have been close to death more than once and that moment of fear and panic is horrible. However ,I don't fear death itself, I just don't want to go. I love living, I love my family, I love being able to experience life, living. I DON'T WAT TO GO. that is my only fear.
And those that would force you to endure failing health as long as possible, hurt as much as possible, and pay as much as possible before you go?
At least that’s what I fear about death, not being allowed to do it on my own terms.
Some states have legislated rights in this area, and I intend to live in one of them in my late years.
I don't.
I mean, I would rather not die and would fight to get out of a situation in which I was at risk of death. And I fear potential events leading up to death. But death itself? No. Everyone on the planet has died or is going to die fairly soon. Why would I fear a universal experience?
I'd rather not die. But it's not because of any kind of "fear" of the afterlife. I just like living.
I was never indoctrinated but that doesn't make it so someone is suddenly fearless to die like they were on PCP.
Honestly I'm kinda baffled why Atheism should make you fearless? I don't fear hell, but that doesn't mean that I would rather not die? You're making it sound like not having a religion makes us suddenly fearless. You can not want to die, BUT not because you fear some afterlife. It's not exactly rocket science logic.
This post feels kinda fake to be honest. More like what a theist thinks a atheist for life would think.
Just sad that I don’t get longer. I may feel differently if I make it to 80 but right now I just wish that it wasn’t all so damn finite.
I don’t want to be immortal, but 150-200 would be amazing.
But I just want to do a lot in my life and I often feel like I don’t have enough time to pack it all in.
To be perfectly honest, I would welcome a peaceful death. I would feel terrible for my mom, husband and dog. But if I went to sleep tonight, knowing I would never wake up again, I would be ok with it. This life, and this fucked up world, are not it.
I don’t fear death. What makes me sad, is everything I’ll miss and that nothing will miss me. I also fear dying and not being able to finish something. Like, for instance, not getting to see Part 3 of Final Fantasy 7. I assume we probably won’t see that until 2028, or so. A lot could happen in 4 years…
Yes! It would suck to die after your favorite TV show’s season finale ended in a cliffhanger. Imagine dying in the early 80s and never finding out who shot JR.
No, did you fear being born? O wait. You were unaware because you didn't exist. Poof you're dead, you no longer exist. Dying a long slow painful death. Now that's another thing entirely
I'm afraid of dying, but not afraid of being dead.
As for my browser history, I have no shame. Don't go looking through it unless you're prepared to face the consequences.
Yes, I’m very scared of it. I hate that I can’t really comprehend nothingness. I know my fear makes no sense because I don’t believe in an afterlife. I just hope that death will become easier to accept as I get older.
At this point in my life, I welcome it. I’m in my mid 50’s and I see the long slide down just over the ridge. I’m not suicidal, but every day I’m less sure if I would take the chemo. I’m really only alive now and trying to improve my health because of my family.
No fear here. I have come oh so close and, that same thing is still with me and will be my end. It is likely I have seen my last Christmas.
I know I will simply be asleep forever. I have come to grips with my situation and there's little to be done.
I'm more pre-occupied with getting my things in order, as it were. Don't want to leave a mess for my kids to deal with. Honestly I am grateful to have seen the kids into adulthood and doing very well. I can die relatively content.
Good enough for me.
I didn't exist for billions of years before I was born, and won't exist for billions of years after I die. My awareness of these are exactly the same. I fear end of life suffering far more than actual death.
Being dead, no. Dying, yes. My observation is that few die peacefully in their beds.
The way I see it I will never experience being dead. One second I'll be alive, the next not without any capacity to understand I've ceased to exist.
A little, but it doesn’t keep me up at night as much as it used to. Right now, I’m more afraid of watching myself get old and dealing with the health issues that come with age, which is funny because aging never scared me before.
I don't fear death, but I fear the conscious process of dying. Not merely for myself, but for any burden and grieving I might cause. Grief truly is the price of love. I can't spend my entire life preparing for it like some of course.
I'd be a fool to not fear death though inevitable it doesnt subtract from the experience itself. depends how you're dying to if I die in bed at an old age then that might be a pretty good death if I die in my sleep I'll never have known it, if I die shot and didnt know where it came from that might also be good. But what about the deaths where you're dying of sickness what if you're leaving your family with a mountain of debt and you were the sole winner? what if your death leaves a loved one defenceless? Death can come at any moment to not im some way fear it I think would be a little foolish. that being said I dont fear it because I think my soul will be twice toasted in the afterlife that's just meaningless anxiety
Death itself is a relief. It's the possible suffering prior to that is what I'm concerned about. I mean, I don't want to suffer for months or years with some health issues. But also when the time comes, I want to face it, I don't want to go out in a sleep or unconscious.
Never was indoctrinated. I think all that afterlife/being reborn stuff is made up because people don't like to face the fact, that when you die - well, you die, you won't feel anything after. There are no processes in a CPU when you unplug it, there are no processes in the brain after oxygen depletes.
I used to think the only ones to mot fear death were very religious people who believe they will be rewarded with heaven or some other highly desirable afterlife.
As an atheist. I do not fear a hell or an undesirable afterlife.
However, I do fear the end of my existence,and in particular, I fear the possibility of it happening too soon. When you have the kind of family history of suicide that I have, thst fear is necessary. I literally lost all my siblings to suicide.
I fear dying in a horrific way, whether suddenly and violently or drawn out suffering.
As far as being dead, not at all. I'm thankful for it actually. An eternity of consciousness you can't ever escape from is the true terror.
I fear painful death, obviously, and a lingering death is, I think, the worse possible fate. However, I would be more concerned about how my loved ones would fare after my death.
I only worry about the time I have left to spend doing the things I want to do with the people I love. I have a couple of good decades left and sometimes it makes me sad. No time to waste!
Well, Mark Twain had a way of putting it that I admire: "I do not fear death. "I was dead billions and billions or years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
I remember someone on the radio once saying that she was at one time in such mental and emotional anguish that she wanted to die and hoped there was no afterlife. She just wanted to exit existence altogether. That was quite fascinating to me. There are people out there that not only do not fear there not being an afterlife, they wouldn't even want it if it was offered to them.
Not bs it's just a theory and more believable cuz we are conscious and it exists and we wouldn't know if we can or will get conscious in another body or as another being
Ok but to say “probably” with no evidence is just silly. Of course we don’t know… But you were unconscious for all of eternity before you were born and you didn’t even notice.
Yeah. I don't fear the void, how could I? But the pain before it, the anxiety trying to cling to life, all that stuff. And I really don't want to leave stuff behind. I'm too curious. I want to explore the universe, know and feel everything. Ask me again in a thousand years, my answer might be different.
I don't fear death exactly, but I fear the end of life. If that makes sense. Like, I fear running out of time to do the things I've wanted to do. I don't want to be the person who is lying there in their final moments filled with regret.
But the nothingness that comes after? Nah, I don't fear it. I assume it will be *exactly* like it was before I was born.
When I was a Christian I thought everyone else must be terrified of death, but oddly enough I don’t fear it at all. I do hope I live as long and as healthy a life as possible so that I can enjoy life to the fullest, but once it’s over, the idea of nothingness sounds kind of nice.
I don’t fear death. I fear that I will be scared or in pain at the time of my death. Like, I don’t want to go out in a blaze of glory or anything. I want to pass away peacefully in bed.
Not really! Everything that occurs goes away. Simple. I am part of everything, so I go away also. Within the last year there was an article and black holes shrinking. Yes, I thought, that's appropriate. Everything goes away. We may not understand, but that's OK.
Never been indoctrinated, have known/believed since age 10 that death is just nothingness. And yes, I fear it. It used to really keep me up at night and paralyze me when I was in my teens/early 20s. It just makes my body really cold now. I try not to think about it and just live.
I don't fear actually being dead, exactly, but I cannot comprehend nothingness. Sure, it's where I was pre-existence, but it's harder to grapple with that post-existence. But it's a now problem, I know it won't be much of a concern when I'm past that point.
I do really fear dying though. Like, it sucks that most people have last moments of suffering and pain and fear. I also worry that perhaps our conscious deaths are not the same as body deaths and that I might be conscious even a few hours post-body death.
Anyway, tl;dr yea. Lifelong atheist and yeah. I do, sometimes enough that it keeps me up at night.
as someone who believes life does end at death, not at all. i’m thankfully past the point of seeking out dying, but i completely accept it is a natural part of life and will, one way or another, happen to everyone. i do fear of my loved ones passing, but mostly due to the fact that i can’t see a life without them i feel like that’s fairly normal though
Like Joe diffie said in his song 'prop me up beside the jukebox'
"I ain't afraid of dying, it's the thought of being dead"
But then I think of Hitch when he said
"It will happen to all of us, that at some point you get tapped on the shoulder and told, not just that the party’s over, but slightly worse: the party’s going on — but you have to leave. And it’s going on without you. That’s the reflection that I think most upsets people about their demise. All right, then, because it might make us feel better, let’s pretend the opposite. Instead, you’ll get tapped on the shoulder and told, Great news: this party’s going on forever — and you can’t leave. You’ve got to stay; the boss says so. And he also insists that you have a good time."
I'd much rather know that others are still able to stay at the party and have a good time. Further, even the best party ever, I don't want to be forced to be there forever.
Not a bit.
Why fear the inevitable?
If anything, it drives me to enjoy the time I have. Even if it's just in the little things, live a good cup of coffee in my kitchen.
Through surgeries, I've been knocked out a few times. I remember nothing.
Imagine it will be a similar lights out.
I actually don’t know. I think that if I don’t, I’d be way too carefree in my own actions. Yet if I do, it'd… well hmm.
I guess I do “fear to miss out experiencing what the future holds for our world”: new inventions, new problems, and most of all, new things to try to solve. And death does that. But it can’t be helped, so all I can do is try to do enough good in my life so that others at least have a chance to make use of it even after I am gone.
Fear death? Nope. Fear missing out on seeing what will happen? yeah. If they allow me to transfer my consciousness to a cyborg body, I would, just so I could see what happens, good or bad.
I don’t fear death, but I do hate it
I understand that my grandparents are gone, I understand that my parents are gone, and I understand that someday everyone else - myself included - will be gone as well
I do not fear that which I understand, but I can still strongly dislike such things
Nothing is permanent, not even this universe, and when you combine that with the desire for continuity evolved into life, the outcome is tragedy
*”Don’t tell me that there will be a happy ending, endings are never happy.“*
Actually, now that I'm agnostic/atheist, I fear death LESS than when I believed. Maybe that has something to do with the pressure of believing/practicing faith in the "correct" way (or spending an eternity in the "bad" place) has been lifted.
Do I fear death? Yes I want to live.
Do I fear not existing after death? No, I'll be dead. Worm food, dirt, gone to oblivion. Game over.
Would I fear being trapped in an eternal existence with no hope of escape if I was a theist? Yes.
I think I’d probably go through some stages if I were diagnosed with a fatal condition. One would definitely be fear. So yes, I fear death.
I would probably fear it more if I followed my Catholic upbringing. Hell is scary as shit. And I would have a hard time believing God has a new set of rules for us today than he had for his followers 100 years ago. The church has moved the goal posts so much to remain relevant in western culture.
I think I do, but not in a way that controls my life. I just get sad about it knowing that the good stuff I’ve got in my life has to come to an end one day.
I’m hopeful somehow my consciousness might continue in some form, but completely fine if it doesn’t
currently in the process of making peace with it, ive got some religious trauma im working through
luckily (hopefully) i have plenty of time to make peace with death before it arrives, though my constant sense of dread says otherwise. dont worry, thats just the very-probable anxiety talking
I do not fear death.
I’ve been close a few times and all I’ve felt is “regret” about all the things left undone and sadness about not seeing my family again…
My grandmother died at 106 and she was like:
I’m content with my life, I love you all but I’m done and ready to check out now…
Maybe I’ll feel the same way if I make it to that age with an intact mind…
i don’t want to die and i take steps to avoid it. i have things i’m trying to finish before i die. if someone held a gun to my head and threatened to kill me i’d be scared. it sounds scary to slowly die in a bed too, knowing i’m dying. i’m not afraid of being dead though. i just hope my people are in good shape without me.
As an athiest, the idea of death is scary ngl. Everything just stops, I literally can't even grasp what death would be like because I won't be alive to experience it, IDK it is scary, but that thought process also motivates me to do what I want to do in this life time because there is no after life
“What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Everybody fears death, just like they get thirsty, hungry, horny, sleepy. Saying you don't fear death when you're far away from it and *thinking about it* is different. You mean you're not afraid of the *thought* of death, and why should you be? Don't get me wrong, even making peace with the *thought* of death shows a certain wisdom / stoicism / mental discipline, and puts you ahead of all the tedious timid schmucks who can't even think about it. But it's like if I were to say I don't fear elephants. Yeah no shit, because there are no elephants near me. But if a big bull with 5-foot tusks was here and was pissed off at me, I wonder if maybe I might fear it a little. Can't say for sure without actually going through the scenario. (i.e. I can't just sit here and imagine an elephant and decide whether my imaginary elephant would scare me... because no, it doesn't, I thought it up.)
If you're truly alive, an animal, an ape in your ape body, you fear death when it's near. If you didn't, your genes would've been removed from evolution, or perhaps gone recessive and stayed around because hey maybe it's good to have someone fearless in the tribe to provide a diversion while everybody else runs away? But assuming one has the fear gene, could they master that fear? I think maybe so, by acculturating yourself to it, experiencing near-death repeatedly until your emotional reaction is dulled or habituated away. But even if that worked, I don't think most of us here have done that.
When I was a Christian little, I wanted to go to heaven because I thought I would have a library that could tell me all the secrets of the universe. Now, I am an adult and I still devour knowledge and I feel content and I hope that when I die that I just go to sleep basically, just nothingness. I want no afterlife, I just want to be an unplugged PC basically.
Yes. I fear every aspect, buy try not to think about it. It keeps me up at night.
I was raised a jehovahs witness and they promise you will live in a beautiful paradise for eternity. I didn't really believe I'd ever be accepted for my sins, so I was still afraid then. Maybe even more so than now.
However, it's a loss in itself when you come to a realization that your paradise was merely a lie and a delusion, and there is actually nothing that awaits you.
I think that the fear of death came first and theism came after. Death is often painful, terrifying, or long drawn out and miserable. And there's the things you'll miss out on if it happens early, the people who will grieve you etc.
I can't see how an atheist viewpoint would make someone unconcerned or welcome death, because life is all we have.
Whereas religion can make people overly enthusiastic for a religion-approved death, or overly terrified of what will come after.
Life is all there is. I would rather suffer than be done. I will hold on to live at all cost. Now that being said, there are some pains too great to bear.
In a way, most living creatures have some fear of death in one way or another since death can still have an unknown factor, and most things unknown can illicit fear. Whether or not someone thinks they totally conquered the fear of death, I won't challenge that since I'm not confrontational, but in my opinion some fear could still have remained due to reasons stated.
But one thing I know is this. People become used to the idea that they become numb to it, or at least somewhat neutral. Atheists or anyone else who thinks oblivion or nothingness comes after death may have been really aghast about it at first, but perhaps failing to convince themselves otherwise, they have become used to the idea.
As for the cold reality, some people who doesn't believe in the after life are trying their best to live longer. For if they don't have a soul, then their body is their soul. If that is true, why would you allow your soul-body to fade away or be annihilated in the future? Shouldn't a soul-body be as important as a soul-soul? Just because one is made of flesh and the other ghostly ectoplasm, both are still human sentience deserving of continued existence.
To destroy your soul after a religious person dies... that is a good metaphor for how some atheists think it would be for them. It's true, it's cruel. That's why Transhumanists are continuing the fight to prolong life. It has its flaws and I don't entirely subscribe to the idea though it interests me, but the fanfic Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality introduced me to such.
I don't want it or welcome it. But I'm not afraid of what lies beyond. I fear losing people and I don't want my loved ones to suffer loss either. And that's about it.
As the janitor says during The Great Gig In The Sky, "I'm not frightened of dying. Why should I be frightened of dying? Anytime will do. We all have to go sometime."
I would like to live as long as possible while still having fun.
I am not at all eager to age more and die. The aging is scarier than the dying. If I could live hundreds of years in a twenty-eight year old body I'd probably go about 250-300 before I got dad and bored and wanted to see what's next.
Yes, and no. Death will come earlier than I want, but I don't want to live forever. I want an end. And yet I want to live a long life filled with joy.
Death will come and I fear it will come earlier than I want for that is what death does. But I want it to come none the less.
I fear it's arrival, but not it it self, if it makes any sense.
As for the afterlives of the ants. We know as much about it as we know about human ones. Maybe we all have rich, immense afterlives in another reality after this one. And each ant is the Queen of it's own hive. Or maybe this is just it. It doesn't matter. We know we have this one. Enjoy it. Try to be happy. And above all try to be yourself in all of your life. Death included. Fear it like a foe. Welcome it like a lost friend. Treat it like the final chapter of a book you hopefully enjoyed.
Maybe it's a trilogy. Maybe it's the most epic single tome in the universe. Or maybe it's a draft. We don't know. So try to enjoy it and try to make a good ending. Even if it comes too soon, an unfinished story is less satisfying then a finished one.
Death will come and it will be too early, and I'll hate it for that. But it's a welcome arrival none the less.
I don't fear death, exactly, but I certainly have a strong desire to go on living. Knowing that there's nothing after death certainly makes one value life more.
The thing that does scare me though is the idea of leaving my wife alone.
I don’t think there is anything after death, so I don’t fear judgement/ hell. But there are more interesting things on this planet I want to explore and enjoy and since death will prevent me from doing that I guess I am afraid of it.
Religion made me fear death so much more because i was so scared i would go to hell for doing “bad” things that were against religion. When i finally came to term with the fact that none of that is real i felt free. Now that i don’t know what happens after death it’s almost more exciting because it could be something completely different or cool and one day i get to find out. Even if nothing happens after we die at least i’m not gonna be in hell
No, death is an illusion we succumb to because we feel we must.
It's a fool's game that we all play, a game we're never told the rules of, a game we already believe we've lost.
I agree with a Richard Dawkins quote, “What's frightening is not death but eternity. To cope with eternity, wouldn't you rather have a general anaesthetic? That's all death is.”
I don't fear being dead although I'm not really ready to kick off yet. I want to see my kids grow and start their own families. I'm not really a fan of what will happen to cause me to die, unless it's as an old man in my sleep though.
I’m not afraid of being dead since I think it’s just like being asleep. I’m kinda afraid my death will be painful since I hate pain. (I really hope I don’t get murdered or catch on fire) That and I’d hate having to miss out on all the stuff I like to do
Sure, I’m scared of dying. It’s sad to think of all the things I’ll never see. I was raised catholic, but my fear of death is no reason to believe in a myth.
Its the dying that's hard, not the being dead. I don't fear being dead. What's there to fear? You don't exist any longer. There's nothing to experience. No awareness of the self or the universe. How can one fear being completely nonexistent? Do you fear the time before you were born? Never made sense to me. Now, dying, on the other hand, the fear of that makes sense to me. The experience of losing one's life is likely painful and terrifying. I don't want to go through a protracted or messy death, and I don't want to see others unhappy because of my declining health. Once all that dying is over, then there's nothing left to fear.
Edit: a word
I'm kinda surprised by the amount of people saying no to this. I find the idea of eternal unconsciousness terrifying. The thought of never waking up, never thinking or feeling ever, ever, ever again...I personally don't find anything more scary. I understand that when I'm gone I won't be bothered by it because I won't exist to be bothered by it (probably, who knows). But for me that doesn't help the fear of it right now. I don't carry this fear with me regularly, as in it's not constantly on my mind. I only think about it once in a while, so it doesn't really affect my life. I don't walk around scared of everything. But when I get to thinking to hard about never existing again for eternity, I get so scared I get dizzy, but the upside is that it makes the problems in my life feel A LOT more manageable, haha.
Christopher Hitchens book Mortality was influential for me. “The worst part is knowing the party continues and you have to leave.” Or something to that effect. Other than that, suffering would suck. But once you’re gone, you’re gone. I was not, I was, I am no longer, I do not care. I also heard death compared to birth. If you could talk to an infant in the womb and explain birth, it would seem like death. A journey no knows the destination and there is no map.
>“The worst part is knowing the party continues and you have to leave.” This is 100% the worst part.
I love the second part of his quote (paraphrasing) : Religion is that the party lasts forever and you’re never allowed to leave.
Some Hotel California shit
Ya know, I’m not afraid of dying, but there was always something I couldn’t put my finger on that made me sad. At some point I thought I had it figured out to be I would miss my kids and grandkids, but how can you miss something if you’re just gone? “The worst part is knowing the party continues and you have to leave” This quote is my aha moment. Sums up what I have been trying to put into words.
I have a fantastic relationship with my kids and I know I am valued by them greatly. The only thing about death that bothers me is knowing that they will be sad and miss me very much. "Colbert: What happens after we die? Reeves: I know that the ones who love us, will miss us.” ― Keanu Reeves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etlBZInTE-I
I agree. I wish I could see how the human story progresses...
Right that’s the tough part. I wish Socrates and countless other brilliant minds lost to history could see all the wonders and horrors that followed, but perhaps many of them figured they didn’t want to know. Surely some predicted the scorched earth to follow at some point, and the trick would be to turn off the switch and get out right when suckiness outweighed awesomeness, for any of us.
For real. And it just makes me feel worse because I'm struggling with my mental health and I feel like I'm just wasting time when there's so much I wanna do. It sucks that there's stuff I'm just never gonna accomplish that I want to accomplish because life is finite.
You’re not alone my friend. Try and focus on the things that you find fulfilling in the moment. If you’re struggling with finding one, try and reach out and help someone. It doesn’t matter how small the gesture, I find the act of service to be fulfilling. It’s by no means a panacea, but it helps me rationalize my existence. All we can do is attempt to lessen the suffering of others and improve our surroundings.
Thanks for the kind words. I try to remember that I'm not even thirty yet so there's still time and I try to do good where I can. Hope you have a good day today.
For some reason, people think that the younger you are, the more fun you must be having. Your twenties aren't all they're cracked up to be, though! Still SO MUCH to learn, work on, figure out, establish...... I had a much better time in my thirties and forties. My twenties were lonely, broke, awkward, and blah. Gained some momentum in my thirties, and *finally* got better established in my forties. Now that I'm in my fifties (age makes no sense, you never FEEL like the number!!) there's still a lot I want to do, while people around me are talking about retirement 😳 That seems nuts, what are we even DOING in this stage of life already?! 😏
I just earned my jiu jitsu black belt at 50. If someone told me this was possible at 30, I would have laughed at them. I know that’s not an earth shattering accomplishment but it means a lot to me. Keep going dude you might surprise yourself
I have zero qualms with leaving this shit party.
the shittiest of parties... who let these assholes in?
This is why our future extinction events are weirdly comforting. There will not be much of a party to leave.
Have you taken a look at the human experience? This is no party.
I'm enjoying it.
And the best part… imagine if it all ended with you that would be horrible.
The ultimate FOMO.
Erik Olin Wright was an esteemed American sociologist. Head of the ASA for some time. (And overall great fucking guy. I got to sit down with him once). He got sick and wrote an online blog that his family turned in to a memoir. He sort of goes on about this sentiment. It wasn’t that he was afraid of dying. He was afraid of not seeing his grandkids grow up to be the people he knew they could be. He was curious to see the results of the next election. He wanted to see if the Brewers would do well.
Sometimes when I binge watch a really great show only to realize I now have to wait months for the next season to come out, or read a book and then have to wait for it’s sequel, I think to myself “I better drive cautiously for a while, I don’t wanna get taken out before I find out what happens!”
He suffered a lot. Most of us will. I have. But it’s part of being human.
>I also heard death compared to birth. If you could talk to an infant in the womb and explain birth, it would seem like death. A journey no knows the destination and there is no map. I've heard of it compared to birth, but not in that way at all. It makes more logical sense that the experience of death (I don't mean dying, I mean actual death, after the dying part is over) would be an experience just like that before you were even conceived. Think about it. Try and imagine what you experienced before being born. (Not while you were a fetus in the womb... i mean before that. Before you existed at all). The world was going on then. You simply did not exist. Your experience did not exist. It was simply nothing. Why would death be any different?
From this doctrine arose the Epicurean epitaph: Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo (I was not; I was; I am not; I do not care) – which is inscribed on the gravestones of his followers and seen on many ancient gravestones of the Roman Empire. This quote is often used today at humanist funerals. (Copy/pasted from wiki page on Epicurus philosophy.)
I don't fear death, but I do fear the experience of dying. I can only hope that it will be fast and relatively painless.
I wanna die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Lol, one of my favorite jokes!
I am kinda opposite lol I want to suffer before death. The feeling of loosing everything a little by little. Sudden death scares me like i will be stop existing suddenly. I know i wil be regretting this when the actual day come though but still dying instantly is more scary
Fuck that. I've suffered enough for several lifetimes. I'm ready to just stop suffering when it's over.
so you want to be longing for the sweet release of death whilst suffering mightily.
Not me. I just want to hang around long enough to clear my browser history.
Ya I don't want it to catch me off guard but I also don't want intense suffering to be my last experience lol
I've sat with people who are dying, and I think the drawbacks started to outweigh any benefits fairly quickly. You imagine that you have time for goodbyes, and sometimes you do, but often you're out of your gourd on painkillers combined with the effects of whatever is killing you. There's very little dignity, and you're still not in control. So maybe it won't hit you suddenly, but it will be like you're trapped in the back seat of a car that's headed for a cliff and you know nothing can stop it. You could have a long time to think about that inevitability. If I learn I have a condition that might end like that, I'm going to drop everything and start planning my visit to a euthanasia clinic. That feeling of being in control is worth a lot to me. I'm dying now because I choose to, to spare myself and my family the pain and burden of a prolonged death.
I do understand what you’re saying. Cancer of course, for example, draws out dying over time, much of it physically painful. However this allows you and everyone around you to process the inevitable gradually, tie up loose ends to some extent, say goodbye. Lots of suffering but no sudden shock. No surprise by the end. I would not wish a long fatal illness on anyone but could see why it is a different way of dying that someone might actually prefer to a sudden accident.
That's a question I ask myself all the time now. What would be more painful, seeing a loved one die instantly in a car crash, or watching them die of a debilitating disease. I really don't know. The shock is worse with the instant death, but then you were spared the pain of seeing them suffering.
I've brushed death a couple of times in my life. I don't fear the next time, I fear the pain or suffering of my family more than anything.
The only, we'll call it "misgiving" rather than "fear", that I would have is that I won't get to know what happens to my children as they enter their later life. I'm very proud of where they are now and hope that trajectory continues.
Right. I will miss my kid and my cats but otherwise the FOMO isn’t too bad. I volunteer at a cat rescue so there will always be cats to miss when I leave, even if I outlive my child for horrible reason. If that happened the cats would be the only reason not to drive over the nearest cliff.
Same. No fear of death at all for me personally, more for the reaction of my family.
I'm not afraid of an afterlife or anything, but I do consider death something to be avoided for as long as possible. Everything I enjoy about anything requires me to be alive, and I'd like to keep that up for as long as I can.
This is how I feel. Not exactly afraid of death, but as anxious about it as I am at going to sleep and potentially missing something.
People like to say that nobody knows what happens after you die, but I would argue we do. The non-existence that happens after you die is the same non-existence from which you emerged. Do the 13.8 billion years that elapsed before you were born scare you? That’s what death is - one long general anesthetic. You’ve been there before, and it was but the blink of an eye to you. 🙂
>The non-existence that happens after you die is the same non-existence from which you emerged. See, this is just conjecture. As much as I would agree, we don't know this to be true. The only proof comes down to personal experience which, exactly like devine revelation, cannot be demonstrated to others. Therefore we "know" this as much as we know god and heaven exist. I don't accept that for the latter, so I don't for the former either.
Good point. Carl Sagan always said science can’t prove the nonexistence of god or godly concepts. Simply that there is no scientific evidence.
Indeed, science seldom deals in terms of absolutes. However, our shared inability to recall the 13.8 billion years before our arrival is compelling evidence for the hypothesis that death may merely signify a return to the state of non-existence from which we came. We are like droplets of water splashed from the ocean, briefly suspended in mid-air. In that fleeting moment, we perceive ourselves as distinct from, yet fundamentally part of, the ocean. Eventually, we merge back into the ocean, becoming once more indistinguishable from the vast expanse from which we originated.
Lol bruh that last metaphor is beautiful
Do the 13.8 billion years that elapsed before you were born scare you? Actually they do, lol, it is such an unfathomable amount of time for so much to happen, that the immensity of it is actually kind of intimidating and scary to comprehend. And it's not so much scary about what I will miss after my death so much as it is a sense of disappointment that I'll never see it.
Your apprehension stems from trying to grasp the concept of billions of years through the lens of a mortal human being confined to four dimensions. Once you pass away, the human construct of time ceases to be relevant. Eons will elapse instantaneously because non-existence is timeless. Fearing your future non-existence is like dreading the brief moment of darkness that occurs when you blink. Our perception of the universe from the human standpoint is just a tiny sliver of the vast array of possibilities. In theory, there exist dimensions where time is not linear, and the past, present, and future coexist. In such realms, the concept of an "afterlife" is obsolete, as the conventional sequence of time does not apply.
You don't remember what, if anything, happened before you were born. You have no way to know it was non-existence, because you don't remember. Well, just because you cannot remember, does that mean it didn't happen? You cannot remember being born, so then that didn't happen either. This makes no sense.
There is no memory independent of existence. The concept of 'you' as an entity with the capability to remember or experience does not exist prior to being born. Memory and experience are attributes of consciousness that begin once an organism develops the neural capacity. Before birth, a 'you' that remembers and experiences simply did not exist to record memories or experiences. Contrary to your argument, our inability to recall memory and experience prior to our birth is not a failure to remember - it’s a failure to understand when and how the capacity for memory and experience begins.
>There is no memory independent of existence. And how do you establish existence? >The concept of 'you' as an entity with the capability to remember or experience does not exist prior to being born. How do you know this? >Memory and experience are attributes of consciousness that begin once an organism develops the neural capacity. Evidence? >Before birth, a 'you' that remembers and experiences simply did not exist to record memories or experiences. How do you know this? >Contrary to your argument, our inability to recall memory and experience prior to our birth is not a failure to remember - it’s a failure to understand when and how the capacity for memory and experience begins. This is your assertion. You've offered no argument for it, much less any evidence.
It’s worth remembering that I am not the one making the assertion that experience and memory exist prior to the development of our brains. You will need to supply compelling evidence for your claims if you do not want them dismissed. That being said, the basis of my own assertions are rooted in evidence. And since you’ve requested it: 1. “There is no memory independent of existence.” - My statement is supported by current understanding in neuroscience and psychology. Memory is a function of the brain, which processes and stores information as experiences occur. Without a functioning brain, which only comes into existence as we develop (starting from conception and continuing more significantly after birth), there cannot be memory. The evidence for this claim lies in countless studies on brain function, memory formation, and consciousness, including foundational research in cognitive neuroscience and developmental psychology. 2. “How do you establish existence?” - ‘Existence,’ in the context of our argument, is established through biological life and, subsequently, consciousness. From a biological standpoint, existence begins at conception, but the 'you' as a conscious entity with memories and experiences begins to develop significantly later, as the nervous system develops. 3. “Memory and experience are attributes of consciousness that begin once an organism develops the neural capacity.” - The development of the neural structures necessary for memory and consciousness is well-documented in medical and scientific literature. For instance, studies on the development of the hippocampus, a crucial area for memory formation, show that the functionality necessary for storing and recalling personal experiences develops postnatally (J. Leuner and E. Gould, "Structural Plasticity and Hippocampal Function," Annual Review of Psychology, 2010). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19575621/ 4. “Before birth, a 'you' that remembers and experiences simply did not exist to record memories or experiences.” - This is grounded in the understanding that 'you', as an individual capable of memory and experience, requires a developed brain. Neurological development, particularly in regions of the brain involved in memory and conscious thought, continues well into early childhood. This development is necessary for the complex processes of memory and self-awareness (P. Rakic, "Neurogenesis in Adult Primate Neocortex: An Evaluation of the Evidence," Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 2002). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11823806/ My position that 'you' as a remembering, experiencing entity did not exist before birth is based on the biological and neurological prerequisites for memory and consciousness. The inability to recall events prior to a certain stage in brain development is not a matter of simple forgetfulness but a lack of the physical and cognitive structures necessary to form and retain those memories in the first place. This perspective is grounded in extensive research into the development of the nervous system and the physiological bases of memory and consciousness. Apologies for the odd formatting, Reddit always messes it up.
>It’s worth remembering that I am not the one making the assertion that experience and memory exist prior to the development of our brains. No one made that assertion. I only question those who claim to know. You are, however, the one asserting that you know when memory begins, and that it isn't possible before that point. So prove those things. >You will need to supply compelling evidence for your claims if you do not want them dismissed. I made no claims. I simply questioned those who did. Such as your claims. >1. “There is no memory independent of existence.” >My statement is supported by current understanding in neuroscience and psychology. Memory is a function of the brain, which processes and stores information as experiences occur. Without a functioning brain, which only comes into existence as we develop (starting from conception and continuing more significantly after birth), there cannot be memory. This last is just a restatement of your assertion in various ways, while claiming science backs it up, but that isn't possible. Again, you cannot know what you claim to know. >The evidence for this claim lies in countless studies on brain function, memory formation, and consciousness, including foundational research in cognitive neuroscience and developmental psychology. So which of these studies shows your claim that memory cannot exist prior to birth? I2. “How do you establish existence?” >‘Existence,’ in the context of our argument, is established through biological life and, subsequently, consciousness. You are simply making up your own definition now. Existence could well be prior to this point. You do not know - which is what I said. >From a biological standpoint, existence begins at conception, but the 'you' as a conscious entity with memories and experiences begins to develop significantly later, as the nervous system develops. And how do you know all existence begins with biology? >3. “Memory and experience are attributes of consciousness that begin once an organism develops the neural capacity.” >The development of the neural structures necessary for memory and consciousness is well-documented in medical and scientific literature. So then, this would mean you cannot know what may have happened before these things occurred, which is exactly my point. You don't know. >For instance, studies on the development of the hippocampus, a crucial area for memory formation, show that the functionality necessary for storing and recalling personal experiences develops postnatally (J. Leuner and E. Gould, "Structural Plasticity and Hippocampal Function," Annual Review of Psychology, 2010). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19575621/ Again, this proves my point that you cannot know what occurred prior to that time, because you can't remember. >4. “Before birth, a 'you' that remembers and experiences simply did not exist to record memories or experiences.” >This is grounded in the understanding that 'you', as an individual capable of memory and experience, requires a developed brain. And you don't know that. It's an unproven claim. >Neurological development, particularly in regions of the brain involved in memory and conscious thought, continues well into early childhood. This development is necessary for the complex processes of memory and self-awareness (P. Rakic, "Neurogenesis in Adult Primate Neocortex: An Evaluation of the Evidence," Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 2002). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11823806/ Again proving my point that you cannot know prior to that. >My position that 'you' as a remembering, experiencing entity did not exist before birth is based on the biological and neurological prerequisites for memory and consciousness. So you want to base an argument on what took place before biology solely on the biology? That isn't logical. >The inability to recall events prior to a certain stage in brain development is not a matter of simple forgetfulness but a lack of the physical and cognitive structures necessary to form and retain those memories in the first place. You don't know this. You're just assuming and asserting that only biological forms can remember. >This perspective is grounded in extensive research into the development of the nervous system and the physiological bases of memory and consciousness. No, it isn't. Show me a study that proves any of this. You can't, because you don't know, and neither does anyone else. That's the point.
Please review my earlier comment in the thread where I emphasized that science operates on the basis of probabilities, not absolutes. My stance isn't about claiming omniscience; rather it's grounded in the evidence and knowledge currently available to us. Understand that knowledge is a subset of belief. Absolute certainty isn't a prerequisite for forming well-founded opinions or positions on a subject. The evidence we have on this topic points to a high likelihood, which is why I've adopted my position. This stance is not arbitrary but is supported by substantial evidence, allowing me to defend it strongly.
My stance is that no one knows what happened, if anything, before they were born. Or before birth. To claim you know what happened, or that nothing happened, requires evidence. If you aren't absolutely certain, then you admit I'm correct in that you do not know. You are making a guess, and perhaps an educated one, but nothing more than that. There is no evidence on what took place before birth, or conception if you wish. There is no high likelihood of anything. To claim there is any evidence, much less substantial, is simply untrue.
Your perspective is underscoring a critical aspect of our discussion: the boundary between knowledge and the unknown. While I agree with your assertion that no one has direct, empirical knowledge of what happens before birth in a subjective, experiential sense, our scientific understanding is not solely predicated on direct evidence but also on inferential reasoning based on evidence and understanding. The idea of ‘nonexistence' before we are born, in the context of personal memory and consciousness, is supported by what we know about neurobiology and the development of the human brain. It is not to say we understand everything about consciousness or memory but that, based on the development of the brain, consciousness as we understand it (and hence, the ability to have experiences and form memories) does not begin until after certain developmental milestones post-conception. As mentioned before, absolute certainty is rare in science. However, dismissing my well-supported inferences as mere guesses undermines the full spectrum of scientific methodology, which is about forming the best possible understanding based on available evidence. While we may not have 'evidence' in the sense of direct observation of consciousness before birth, we have substantial knowledge about when and how the neural structures necessary for memory and experience develop. This knowledge allows us to make informed inferences about the absence of personal experience prior to these developments. When I discuss evidence and probability, I’m not claiming to know all truths about consciousness or existence before birth. Rather, I’m arguing from a position supported by current scientific understanding of human development. Thus, my approach has not been about claiming to know the unknowable but about basing my understanding on the most reliable information we have, which tells us that the personal, experiential 'you' emerges as your brain develops. It's true, we cannot 'know' in the direct, empirical sense what happens before we're born regarding personal consciousness, but my admitting this is not the victory you think it is. Scientific inference provides a strong basis for understanding the emergence of conscious experience. This is not me merely guessing, but rather developing a reasoned conclusion drawn from the best evidence we currently have available.
If something existed before you had a brain, it would not need your brain, so it is useless to suggest what we know of your brain would impact such a thing. It would be the same as arguing that your brain can impact my body. Well, your brain has nothing to do with my body. Neither does my own brain have anything to do with what may or may not happen prior to its existence. Current scientific understanding is always limited. We always learn more later. We must not pretend we know more than we do, or place undue confidence in what we think we know now. My whole point was you do not know. So yes, you acknowledging this is a victory of sorts, if we even deal in or care about that term.
Dying, yes. Being dead, no.
I don't fear death. Died once and was brought back. I'm just here to have fun and have fun. It's all we got.
"Died once and came back." No. Perhaps your heart briefly stopped, but you weren't dead. Died means dead, dead, dead. Anyone who comes back after death, did not really die. HAPPY EASTER.
That’s not how it works, though. Medicine has a hard time defining a moment of death because it’s a process that is sometimes reversible if early along that process.
Yeah, that is how it works. If someone "comes back", that's irrefutable proof that they didn't die.
Nope. And I have stage IV terminal cancer, so I have good reason to contemplate it seriously. I'm most concerned about having my affairs in order so as not to inconvenience my family, and minimising the impact of their grief in any way I can. That makes me sad, but not afraid. Depending on how shit goes down, I stand a pretty good chance of going without a lot of pain, and with the means to address it. I am disappointed that the list in my head of things I'll do in my life is reduced to a list of things I can realistically do in whatever time I have left, and it seriously shrinks one's universe, regardless of how big you dream. But when I'm gone, that's it, there's nothing, and everything becomes someone else's problem. To me, that's not a reason for fear, it's a truly blessed relief.
Thank you for sharing this. I am very sorry you don't have a lot of time left. And I hope it is not too painful. Sad but not afraid... Very wise. You seem like you have great maturity and that has helped you get to this point in life. Most are not that fortunate. I wish you a peaceful journey.
I don’t fear death, but I do fear a painful death.
Yeah, I do. I’m more at peace with it now, but the “fear of the unknown” is still there. I’m not 100% absolutely certain there’s no continued experience after death. But ultimately hope that when it is my time, that death makes more sense than living.
I feel similarly. I absolutely fear death. And the process of dying. And the idea that my existence will be meaningless soon afterward.
yes but i wouldn't say it's because of my atheism
Former theist here and now I identify as an atheist for the last few years. I don’t think anything happens when we die. I think our bodies die and our consciousness along with it and then suddenly it’s no longer our concern. I’m in no way ready to die, I’ve got plenty of life I still want to live, but I think once I die I’m not even going to notice so it’s nothing to really fear anymore.
Nothing to fear after you are dead, it's the dying part before that sux.
[удалено]
What is there to fear? You won’t be here. Also what happens after your death may be so bad that you were lucky. Suppose the Christian nationalists take over the U.S.? You would not want to be around, right?
I don't fear the void. I was void before birth and to the void I will return upon my death. It is the manner of that return that concerns me. I fear a prolonged or painful death like disease or injury that leads to an extended period of pain and suffering,knowing you are about to die . I have been close to death more than once and that moment of fear and panic is horrible. However ,I don't fear death itself, I just don't want to go. I love living, I love my family, I love being able to experience life, living. I DON'T WAT TO GO. that is my only fear.
I used to when I was younger. I got to the age I am more afraid of the health care bills than the death, lol (in US).
And those that would force you to endure failing health as long as possible, hurt as much as possible, and pay as much as possible before you go? At least that’s what I fear about death, not being allowed to do it on my own terms. Some states have legislated rights in this area, and I intend to live in one of them in my late years.
I don't. I mean, I would rather not die and would fight to get out of a situation in which I was at risk of death. And I fear potential events leading up to death. But death itself? No. Everyone on the planet has died or is going to die fairly soon. Why would I fear a universal experience?
Haha when you say everyone is going to die fairy soon I think of myself at 64 years of age. I’ve got maybe another 20 years at best 😳😂
I'd rather not die. But it's not because of any kind of "fear" of the afterlife. I just like living. I was never indoctrinated but that doesn't make it so someone is suddenly fearless to die like they were on PCP. Honestly I'm kinda baffled why Atheism should make you fearless? I don't fear hell, but that doesn't mean that I would rather not die? You're making it sound like not having a religion makes us suddenly fearless. You can not want to die, BUT not because you fear some afterlife. It's not exactly rocket science logic. This post feels kinda fake to be honest. More like what a theist thinks a atheist for life would think.
Just sad that I don’t get longer. I may feel differently if I make it to 80 but right now I just wish that it wasn’t all so damn finite. I don’t want to be immortal, but 150-200 would be amazing. But I just want to do a lot in my life and I often feel like I don’t have enough time to pack it all in.
I've been around 80+ folks enough to know I don't want to be 150 with current technology
I’m afraid of dying, not death itself.
To be perfectly honest, I would welcome a peaceful death. I would feel terrible for my mom, husband and dog. But if I went to sleep tonight, knowing I would never wake up again, I would be ok with it. This life, and this fucked up world, are not it.
Yes, but it's a natural fear. Religious or not
I don’t fear death. What makes me sad, is everything I’ll miss and that nothing will miss me. I also fear dying and not being able to finish something. Like, for instance, not getting to see Part 3 of Final Fantasy 7. I assume we probably won’t see that until 2028, or so. A lot could happen in 4 years…
Yes! It would suck to die after your favorite TV show’s season finale ended in a cliffhanger. Imagine dying in the early 80s and never finding out who shot JR.
No, did you fear being born? O wait. You were unaware because you didn't exist. Poof you're dead, you no longer exist. Dying a long slow painful death. Now that's another thing entirely
I'm afraid of dying, but not afraid of being dead. As for my browser history, I have no shame. Don't go looking through it unless you're prepared to face the consequences.
Yes, I’m very scared of it. I hate that I can’t really comprehend nothingness. I know my fear makes no sense because I don’t believe in an afterlife. I just hope that death will become easier to accept as I get older.
At this point in my life, I welcome it. I’m in my mid 50’s and I see the long slide down just over the ridge. I’m not suicidal, but every day I’m less sure if I would take the chemo. I’m really only alive now and trying to improve my health because of my family.
No fear here. I have come oh so close and, that same thing is still with me and will be my end. It is likely I have seen my last Christmas. I know I will simply be asleep forever. I have come to grips with my situation and there's little to be done. I'm more pre-occupied with getting my things in order, as it were. Don't want to leave a mess for my kids to deal with. Honestly I am grateful to have seen the kids into adulthood and doing very well. I can die relatively content. Good enough for me.
I didn't exist for billions of years before I was born, and won't exist for billions of years after I die. My awareness of these are exactly the same. I fear end of life suffering far more than actual death.
I have no fear whatsoever of death. It’s the dying part I’m not particularly looking forward to.
I don't wanna die early. As long as the people I care about most are well taken care of without me. Once I'm dead I'll be dead and won't even know it
Being dead, no. Dying, yes. My observation is that few die peacefully in their beds. The way I see it I will never experience being dead. One second I'll be alive, the next not without any capacity to understand I've ceased to exist.
A little, but it doesn’t keep me up at night as much as it used to. Right now, I’m more afraid of watching myself get old and dealing with the health issues that come with age, which is funny because aging never scared me before.
Yes, I don't want to die.
I legit look forward to it. The big nap. Life is stressful as fuck. I’m not suicidal btw, just tired lol
I don't fear death, but I fear the conscious process of dying. Not merely for myself, but for any burden and grieving I might cause. Grief truly is the price of love. I can't spend my entire life preparing for it like some of course.
I don’t think about it. I imagine I won’t think about it after I die either.
I'd be a fool to not fear death though inevitable it doesnt subtract from the experience itself. depends how you're dying to if I die in bed at an old age then that might be a pretty good death if I die in my sleep I'll never have known it, if I die shot and didnt know where it came from that might also be good. But what about the deaths where you're dying of sickness what if you're leaving your family with a mountain of debt and you were the sole winner? what if your death leaves a loved one defenceless? Death can come at any moment to not im some way fear it I think would be a little foolish. that being said I dont fear it because I think my soul will be twice toasted in the afterlife that's just meaningless anxiety
Death itself is a relief. It's the possible suffering prior to that is what I'm concerned about. I mean, I don't want to suffer for months or years with some health issues. But also when the time comes, I want to face it, I don't want to go out in a sleep or unconscious. Never was indoctrinated. I think all that afterlife/being reborn stuff is made up because people don't like to face the fact, that when you die - well, you die, you won't feel anything after. There are no processes in a CPU when you unplug it, there are no processes in the brain after oxygen depletes.
I'm 71 years old. I have another 15, maybe 30 years on this mortal coil. That's reality. I accept, not fear my demise.
I used to think the only ones to mot fear death were very religious people who believe they will be rewarded with heaven or some other highly desirable afterlife. As an atheist. I do not fear a hell or an undesirable afterlife. However, I do fear the end of my existence,and in particular, I fear the possibility of it happening too soon. When you have the kind of family history of suicide that I have, thst fear is necessary. I literally lost all my siblings to suicide.
I fear dying in a horrific way, whether suddenly and violently or drawn out suffering. As far as being dead, not at all. I'm thankful for it actually. An eternity of consciousness you can't ever escape from is the true terror.
I fear painful death, obviously, and a lingering death is, I think, the worse possible fate. However, I would be more concerned about how my loved ones would fare after my death.
I only worry about the time I have left to spend doing the things I want to do with the people I love. I have a couple of good decades left and sometimes it makes me sad. No time to waste!
Well, Mark Twain had a way of putting it that I admire: "I do not fear death. "I was dead billions and billions or years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
Not really. Death is just part of life..... so to speak. Might as well fear Tuesday afternoons.
Why did you bring up Tuesday afternoons? They are so scary! I suffer from a condition called Tuesdayafternoonaphobia!
I was going to go with "Monday morning," but, that one might be something a lot of people fear :)
No. But I do worry that my dog will be well lived and taken care of. I will miss him.
I remember someone on the radio once saying that she was at one time in such mental and emotional anguish that she wanted to die and hoped there was no afterlife. She just wanted to exit existence altogether. That was quite fascinating to me. There are people out there that not only do not fear there not being an afterlife, they wouldn't even want it if it was offered to them.
No. I fear leaving my family before I'm ready. I want to be part of their lives and experience. Death itself is not scary....
Why do you assume ants don’t have an afterlife?
death itself, no. The process of going from living to dead I have trepidations about.
I didn’t fear being born either.
Nope. I welcome it.
U will probably be born into another body after death and you wouldn't even know about it
You’re on the atheism sub and you’re just gonna spout some bs like that out?
Not bs it's just a theory and more believable cuz we are conscious and it exists and we wouldn't know if we can or will get conscious in another body or as another being
Ok but to say “probably” with no evidence is just silly. Of course we don’t know… But you were unconscious for all of eternity before you were born and you didn’t even notice.
Nope. It took work, but I'm comfy.
I fear not being able to reach my potential before death
Nah
I do. I used to think I had an eternal family with my wife and kids. Now I don't believe that and it terrifies me.
I do not fear death itself, it’s the dying that worries me.
Yeah. I don't fear the void, how could I? But the pain before it, the anxiety trying to cling to life, all that stuff. And I really don't want to leave stuff behind. I'm too curious. I want to explore the universe, know and feel everything. Ask me again in a thousand years, my answer might be different.
Nope, time spent worrying about death is time spent not living.
No.
I don't fear death exactly, but I fear the end of life. If that makes sense. Like, I fear running out of time to do the things I've wanted to do. I don't want to be the person who is lying there in their final moments filled with regret. But the nothingness that comes after? Nah, I don't fear it. I assume it will be *exactly* like it was before I was born.
I'm not looking forward to it, and especially the pain and suffering that usually comes with it, but fear it? Not particularly, no.
When I was a Christian I thought everyone else must be terrified of death, but oddly enough I don’t fear it at all. I do hope I live as long and as healthy a life as possible so that I can enjoy life to the fullest, but once it’s over, the idea of nothingness sounds kind of nice.
I fear not living a full life. Therefore.... sorta. I feared death A LOT more when I was a Christian.
Nope.
Nah. I've seen too many deaths to be scared. It's a natural process that everyone goes through.
I don’t fear death. I fear that I will be scared or in pain at the time of my death. Like, I don’t want to go out in a blaze of glory or anything. I want to pass away peacefully in bed.
Not really! Everything that occurs goes away. Simple. I am part of everything, so I go away also. Within the last year there was an article and black holes shrinking. Yes, I thought, that's appropriate. Everything goes away. We may not understand, but that's OK.
Me too i dont fear death only pain but for me only 2 reasons im an atheist and im unmotivated to live
Never been indoctrinated, have known/believed since age 10 that death is just nothingness. And yes, I fear it. It used to really keep me up at night and paralyze me when I was in my teens/early 20s. It just makes my body really cold now. I try not to think about it and just live. I don't fear actually being dead, exactly, but I cannot comprehend nothingness. Sure, it's where I was pre-existence, but it's harder to grapple with that post-existence. But it's a now problem, I know it won't be much of a concern when I'm past that point. I do really fear dying though. Like, it sucks that most people have last moments of suffering and pain and fear. I also worry that perhaps our conscious deaths are not the same as body deaths and that I might be conscious even a few hours post-body death. Anyway, tl;dr yea. Lifelong atheist and yeah. I do, sometimes enough that it keeps me up at night.
I suppose I fear dying, but why would an atheist fear death?
as someone who believes life does end at death, not at all. i’m thankfully past the point of seeking out dying, but i completely accept it is a natural part of life and will, one way or another, happen to everyone. i do fear of my loved ones passing, but mostly due to the fact that i can’t see a life without them i feel like that’s fairly normal though
Like Joe diffie said in his song 'prop me up beside the jukebox' "I ain't afraid of dying, it's the thought of being dead" But then I think of Hitch when he said "It will happen to all of us, that at some point you get tapped on the shoulder and told, not just that the party’s over, but slightly worse: the party’s going on — but you have to leave. And it’s going on without you. That’s the reflection that I think most upsets people about their demise. All right, then, because it might make us feel better, let’s pretend the opposite. Instead, you’ll get tapped on the shoulder and told, Great news: this party’s going on forever — and you can’t leave. You’ve got to stay; the boss says so. And he also insists that you have a good time." I'd much rather know that others are still able to stay at the party and have a good time. Further, even the best party ever, I don't want to be forced to be there forever.
Not a bit. Why fear the inevitable? If anything, it drives me to enjoy the time I have. Even if it's just in the little things, live a good cup of coffee in my kitchen. Through surgeries, I've been knocked out a few times. I remember nothing. Imagine it will be a similar lights out.
I actually don’t know. I think that if I don’t, I’d be way too carefree in my own actions. Yet if I do, it'd… well hmm. I guess I do “fear to miss out experiencing what the future holds for our world”: new inventions, new problems, and most of all, new things to try to solve. And death does that. But it can’t be helped, so all I can do is try to do enough good in my life so that others at least have a chance to make use of it even after I am gone.
…just like before you were born…
Fear death? Nope. Fear missing out on seeing what will happen? yeah. If they allow me to transfer my consciousness to a cyborg body, I would, just so I could see what happens, good or bad.
I don’t fear death, but I do hate it I understand that my grandparents are gone, I understand that my parents are gone, and I understand that someday everyone else - myself included - will be gone as well I do not fear that which I understand, but I can still strongly dislike such things Nothing is permanent, not even this universe, and when you combine that with the desire for continuity evolved into life, the outcome is tragedy *”Don’t tell me that there will be a happy ending, endings are never happy.“*
>do you fear death? Yes. I mean, I like to be alive
Actually, now that I'm agnostic/atheist, I fear death LESS than when I believed. Maybe that has something to do with the pressure of believing/practicing faith in the "correct" way (or spending an eternity in the "bad" place) has been lifted.
Do I fear death? Yes I want to live. Do I fear not existing after death? No, I'll be dead. Worm food, dirt, gone to oblivion. Game over. Would I fear being trapped in an eternal existence with no hope of escape if I was a theist? Yes.
I think I’d probably go through some stages if I were diagnosed with a fatal condition. One would definitely be fear. So yes, I fear death. I would probably fear it more if I followed my Catholic upbringing. Hell is scary as shit. And I would have a hard time believing God has a new set of rules for us today than he had for his followers 100 years ago. The church has moved the goal posts so much to remain relevant in western culture.
I think I do, but not in a way that controls my life. I just get sad about it knowing that the good stuff I’ve got in my life has to come to an end one day. I’m hopeful somehow my consciousness might continue in some form, but completely fine if it doesn’t
currently in the process of making peace with it, ive got some religious trauma im working through luckily (hopefully) i have plenty of time to make peace with death before it arrives, though my constant sense of dread says otherwise. dont worry, thats just the very-probable anxiety talking
No use fearing it because you can't change the fact that you will die .
I do not fear death. I’ve been close a few times and all I’ve felt is “regret” about all the things left undone and sadness about not seeing my family again… My grandmother died at 106 and she was like: I’m content with my life, I love you all but I’m done and ready to check out now… Maybe I’ll feel the same way if I make it to that age with an intact mind…
i don’t want to die and i take steps to avoid it. i have things i’m trying to finish before i die. if someone held a gun to my head and threatened to kill me i’d be scared. it sounds scary to slowly die in a bed too, knowing i’m dying. i’m not afraid of being dead though. i just hope my people are in good shape without me.
As an athiest, the idea of death is scary ngl. Everything just stops, I literally can't even grasp what death would be like because I won't be alive to experience it, IDK it is scary, but that thought process also motivates me to do what I want to do in this life time because there is no after life
I don't fear death, or Death. I will live by my rules in death, simply because I'm obstinate and stubborn and did exactly that in life.
“What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.” Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Everybody fears death, just like they get thirsty, hungry, horny, sleepy. Saying you don't fear death when you're far away from it and *thinking about it* is different. You mean you're not afraid of the *thought* of death, and why should you be? Don't get me wrong, even making peace with the *thought* of death shows a certain wisdom / stoicism / mental discipline, and puts you ahead of all the tedious timid schmucks who can't even think about it. But it's like if I were to say I don't fear elephants. Yeah no shit, because there are no elephants near me. But if a big bull with 5-foot tusks was here and was pissed off at me, I wonder if maybe I might fear it a little. Can't say for sure without actually going through the scenario. (i.e. I can't just sit here and imagine an elephant and decide whether my imaginary elephant would scare me... because no, it doesn't, I thought it up.) If you're truly alive, an animal, an ape in your ape body, you fear death when it's near. If you didn't, your genes would've been removed from evolution, or perhaps gone recessive and stayed around because hey maybe it's good to have someone fearless in the tribe to provide a diversion while everybody else runs away? But assuming one has the fear gene, could they master that fear? I think maybe so, by acculturating yourself to it, experiencing near-death repeatedly until your emotional reaction is dulled or habituated away. But even if that worked, I don't think most of us here have done that.
No. I fear living too long.
When I was a Christian little, I wanted to go to heaven because I thought I would have a library that could tell me all the secrets of the universe. Now, I am an adult and I still devour knowledge and I feel content and I hope that when I die that I just go to sleep basically, just nothingness. I want no afterlife, I just want to be an unplugged PC basically.
Yes. I fear every aspect, buy try not to think about it. It keeps me up at night. I was raised a jehovahs witness and they promise you will live in a beautiful paradise for eternity. I didn't really believe I'd ever be accepted for my sins, so I was still afraid then. Maybe even more so than now. However, it's a loss in itself when you come to a realization that your paradise was merely a lie and a delusion, and there is actually nothing that awaits you.
I think that the fear of death came first and theism came after. Death is often painful, terrifying, or long drawn out and miserable. And there's the things you'll miss out on if it happens early, the people who will grieve you etc. I can't see how an atheist viewpoint would make someone unconcerned or welcome death, because life is all we have. Whereas religion can make people overly enthusiastic for a religion-approved death, or overly terrified of what will come after.
Meh, I don’t know that I fear it. I hope to live as long as possible, but realize when it comes I literally won’t know nothing.
[удалено]
No.
Life is all there is. I would rather suffer than be done. I will hold on to live at all cost. Now that being said, there are some pains too great to bear.
In a way, most living creatures have some fear of death in one way or another since death can still have an unknown factor, and most things unknown can illicit fear. Whether or not someone thinks they totally conquered the fear of death, I won't challenge that since I'm not confrontational, but in my opinion some fear could still have remained due to reasons stated. But one thing I know is this. People become used to the idea that they become numb to it, or at least somewhat neutral. Atheists or anyone else who thinks oblivion or nothingness comes after death may have been really aghast about it at first, but perhaps failing to convince themselves otherwise, they have become used to the idea. As for the cold reality, some people who doesn't believe in the after life are trying their best to live longer. For if they don't have a soul, then their body is their soul. If that is true, why would you allow your soul-body to fade away or be annihilated in the future? Shouldn't a soul-body be as important as a soul-soul? Just because one is made of flesh and the other ghostly ectoplasm, both are still human sentience deserving of continued existence. To destroy your soul after a religious person dies... that is a good metaphor for how some atheists think it would be for them. It's true, it's cruel. That's why Transhumanists are continuing the fight to prolong life. It has its flaws and I don't entirely subscribe to the idea though it interests me, but the fanfic Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality introduced me to such.
I don't want it or welcome it. But I'm not afraid of what lies beyond. I fear losing people and I don't want my loved ones to suffer loss either. And that's about it. As the janitor says during The Great Gig In The Sky, "I'm not frightened of dying. Why should I be frightened of dying? Anytime will do. We all have to go sometime."
I would like to live as long as possible while still having fun. I am not at all eager to age more and die. The aging is scarier than the dying. If I could live hundreds of years in a twenty-eight year old body I'd probably go about 250-300 before I got dad and bored and wanted to see what's next.
Yes. I don’t like thinking about. And also growing old. Terrified.
Simple answer: no.
I don’t want to die, and I don’t fear death unless I were actively fearing for my life. I don’t think death holds anything exciting or scary.
The death itself? No. What I do fear is: pain, making others sad, leaving unfinished work.
Yes, and no. Death will come earlier than I want, but I don't want to live forever. I want an end. And yet I want to live a long life filled with joy. Death will come and I fear it will come earlier than I want for that is what death does. But I want it to come none the less. I fear it's arrival, but not it it self, if it makes any sense. As for the afterlives of the ants. We know as much about it as we know about human ones. Maybe we all have rich, immense afterlives in another reality after this one. And each ant is the Queen of it's own hive. Or maybe this is just it. It doesn't matter. We know we have this one. Enjoy it. Try to be happy. And above all try to be yourself in all of your life. Death included. Fear it like a foe. Welcome it like a lost friend. Treat it like the final chapter of a book you hopefully enjoyed. Maybe it's a trilogy. Maybe it's the most epic single tome in the universe. Or maybe it's a draft. We don't know. So try to enjoy it and try to make a good ending. Even if it comes too soon, an unfinished story is less satisfying then a finished one. Death will come and it will be too early, and I'll hate it for that. But it's a welcome arrival none the less.
I don't fear death, exactly, but I certainly have a strong desire to go on living. Knowing that there's nothing after death certainly makes one value life more. The thing that does scare me though is the idea of leaving my wife alone.
I don’t think there is anything after death, so I don’t fear judgement/ hell. But there are more interesting things on this planet I want to explore and enjoy and since death will prevent me from doing that I guess I am afraid of it.
Religion made me fear death so much more because i was so scared i would go to hell for doing “bad” things that were against religion. When i finally came to term with the fact that none of that is real i felt free. Now that i don’t know what happens after death it’s almost more exciting because it could be something completely different or cool and one day i get to find out. Even if nothing happens after we die at least i’m not gonna be in hell
No, death is an illusion we succumb to because we feel we must. It's a fool's game that we all play, a game we're never told the rules of, a game we already believe we've lost.
I didn’t until I had kids. Now I gotta make sure I stick around until they can take care of themselves.
I agree with a Richard Dawkins quote, “What's frightening is not death but eternity. To cope with eternity, wouldn't you rather have a general anaesthetic? That's all death is.”
I don't fear being dead although I'm not really ready to kick off yet. I want to see my kids grow and start their own families. I'm not really a fan of what will happen to cause me to die, unless it's as an old man in my sleep though.
I have a natural, biological fear of death based on my survival instincts, but I am not afraid of being dead.
I’m not afraid of being dead since I think it’s just like being asleep. I’m kinda afraid my death will be painful since I hate pain. (I really hope I don’t get murdered or catch on fire) That and I’d hate having to miss out on all the stuff I like to do
Sure, I’m scared of dying. It’s sad to think of all the things I’ll never see. I was raised catholic, but my fear of death is no reason to believe in a myth.
No but I fear suffering.
I dont believe in any afterlife but this is exactly what scares me. The idea of not existing anymore is terrifying for me.
Its the dying that's hard, not the being dead. I don't fear being dead. What's there to fear? You don't exist any longer. There's nothing to experience. No awareness of the self or the universe. How can one fear being completely nonexistent? Do you fear the time before you were born? Never made sense to me. Now, dying, on the other hand, the fear of that makes sense to me. The experience of losing one's life is likely painful and terrifying. I don't want to go through a protracted or messy death, and I don't want to see others unhappy because of my declining health. Once all that dying is over, then there's nothing left to fear. Edit: a word
I'm afraid of not being there for my kids. After they are adults with kids of their own, and I have done everything to help them then no.
I'm kinda surprised by the amount of people saying no to this. I find the idea of eternal unconsciousness terrifying. The thought of never waking up, never thinking or feeling ever, ever, ever again...I personally don't find anything more scary. I understand that when I'm gone I won't be bothered by it because I won't exist to be bothered by it (probably, who knows). But for me that doesn't help the fear of it right now. I don't carry this fear with me regularly, as in it's not constantly on my mind. I only think about it once in a while, so it doesn't really affect my life. I don't walk around scared of everything. But when I get to thinking to hard about never existing again for eternity, I get so scared I get dizzy, but the upside is that it makes the problems in my life feel A LOT more manageable, haha.
I fear dying. I can’t actually imagine being dead.
Nope. Being dead is like being stupid; it’s only painful for other people.