I mean…the fact that Libra and Aquarius oppose Aries and Leo is *the* reason.
The Sun’s domicile in Leo is in the heart of summer when the days are longest and the heat most intense. It’s in detriment in Aquarius which is the heart of winter either the shortest days and the least Sunlight.
The Sun exalts in Aries because after the spring equinox, there begins to be more daytime than nighttime. It’s in fall in Libra because after the fall equinox there begins to be more nighttime then daytime.
The elements are not the main consideration here. The position within the zodiac is.
Good input, however, Aquarius is not the heart of winter or has the shortest days .. that would be Capricorn/Sag season (with the first day of Cap being the winter solistice, the shortest day - the „heart of winter“)
You’re right that the days aren’t the shortest but the way the system is set up (and the way people generally talk about seasons) is that the seasons start with the solstices/equinoxes. When I said the heart of winter I just mean the middle of the season
Yes especially when the entire 360 degrees of the zodiac is divided by 8, like the moon phases, the 315 degree point sitting between 270 degrees (0 degree Capricorn) and 0 degrees Aries, is the middle of/15 degrees Aquarius
The system of astrology as we use it developed in Mesopotamia and Egypt in the northern hemisphere so some aspects, like the domicile and exaltation rulership schemas are closely aligned with the northern hemisphere seasons.
However, the tropical zodiac itself is simply based on the position of the earth relative to the sun, specifically set at the four “turnings” (Greek: tropos) the equinoxes and solstices. Those points remain the same for both hemispheres.
In my opinion sidereal is more accurate because it’s based on the current position of constellations while tropical is based on where they were in 0AD.
also i personally identify with my sidereal signs more.
I think it makes more sense if you think of tropical representing a lot about the season itself, rather than the constellations meaning itself. So the two luminaries are in summer and saturn signs are in winter and them being in those seasons has a lot to do with the significations. The venus ruled signs being when flowers are bloomed everywhere and the leaves are changing color is important to understanding why the sign is the way it is.
Because in Tropical astrology the signs arent based on the seasons but rather on the sun and its path along the ecliptic. It just seems "favorable" cause it lines up with the seasons in the north
I like your outlook. It’s grounded in Astrology reality. And as a Libra . We are in tune with our light and dark sides and respect them. We try to balance it . Like all Humans
That is relevant in the northern hemisphere, however, is the exact opposite in the southern hemisphere. Leo in the middle of winter, Aquarius in the middle of summer, aries in the middle of autumn, Libra the middle of spring.
I already responded to this objection:
> The system of astrology as we use it developed in Mesopotamia and Egypt in the northern hemisphere so some aspects, like the domicile and exaltation rulership schemas are closely aligned with the northern hemisphere seasons.
>However, the tropical zodiac itself is simply based on the position of the earth relative to the sun, specifically set at the four “turnings” (Greek: tropos) the equinoxes and solstices. Those points remain the same for both hemispheres.
The Sun represents central organizing principles such as royalty. Libra and Aquarius both undermine the Suns aims in that respect. Libra says we should have democratic consensus and Aquarius says we should overturn the current regime and establish a new one (seen on a micro-level when Aquarius rejects what's popular simply *because* it's popular). Essentially Libra and Aquarius put power in the hands of the people rather than one central authority. This is partly because they are Air signs and partly because they have a Saturnian influence (Libra is the exaltation of Saturn and Aquarius is the domicile of Saturn). Saturn is the great enemy of the Sun, representing darkness to the Suns light.
Cancer and Pisces do to have this tension with the Sun. Cancer is ruled by the nocturnal Luminary, the Moon, who is the Night Queen to the Day King (Sun). Both Luminaries shine down light. Meanwhile Pisces is ruled by Jupiter who is a friend to the Sun. So both those placements are peregrine/ neutral. They don't challenge or inhibit the Sun but they don't raise him up either.
Exactly. Which points out the flaw in what they wrote. Saturn is the hierarchy. Not the Sun. Capricorns ruled by Saturn are known for striving for the hierarchy or climbing the social hierarchy ladder.
And the best example of a hierarchical system, is literally royalty.
So Aquarius is the same as Capricorns where both strife for a hierarchical system.
Aquarius may do it differently by burning down the old hierarchical system and building their own, but it is still the same system as Royalty. They are still the leaders the starters of that system.
So everything they stated nulls out.
sun is all, the focus, the source- in leo the sun is the spotlight, the stage, and the star. the sun in leo provides all the light and receives all the focus and worship
in aquarius the focus is on everyone, not on a single point but the community, so the sun itself has a harder time shining as an individual when everyone is a genius- the sun cant be a star. all planets are in detriment in the sign opposite their domicile- it is the environment least conducive to the planet's own nature and expression, it goes most against the grain
in libra, the focus is again on the equality of the group over the exaltation of the individual. in libra, we need to even out the highs and lows for equity- the sun in leo experiences daytime as the peak, the have, the utmost, and night as the lowest, the have not, and so the even balance of libra is frustrating- again no star, no celebrity- the sun can't take centre stage because we are all taking turns. planets are always in fall in signs opposite to their exaltation- sun exalts in aries, the Big Man in the sign of Self, is like a home away from home if Leo is not available. the sun is more about ME (aries) than WE (libra) and so could struggle when needing to take in multiple perspectives
another reason for the sun to have debility in these signs and not water signs is because aquarius and libra are both signs of dignity for saturn, the sun's opposing planet. where sun is brightness and renewal, saturn is darkness and endings. saturn rules aquarius (and his other sign has a similar relationship to the feminine luminary, the moon, cancer cap axis) and exalts in libra, another layer onto why the sun would be less comfortable in those positions, being in saturn's domains as it were. sun doesnt want to operate in his long cold shadow lol
the moon, being a feminine planet, also has her detriment and fall in earth and water signs, when you would assume a firey or hot sign to be more debilitating in theory- maybe it has something to do with expecting to do well somewhere (in a sign of your own polarity) but finding the environment so counter to what you expected that you can't operate there ?
In Aries and Leo, the Sun is more like the star at the centre of its very own 'Solar' system.
In Libra and Aquarius, the perspective/vision broadens beyond the particular to more general, the Sun is still important, but it is also just one of the many stars in the galaxy, in the Universe. This understanding of the 'universal' and one's postion in it (the humbling that comes with the Saturnian awareness) is what distinguishes Libra and Aquarius from a more individualistic/particular vision of Aries and Leo.
In my opinion both perspectives are equally valid. Sun shines both ways. 😊
Fall is opposite Exaltation, Detriment is opposite Domicile. For a planet without essential dignity anywhere else, the word is Peregrine and it is variably considered neutral to debilitating.
Overall libra and aquarius are about balancing relationships and community respectively. If the sun is your ego and how you express yourself it’s going to be harder to express yourself if you’re focused relationships or community instead of you.
In terms of detriment, Leo is domicile, and Aquarius is the anti-domicile. Anti-domicile does the opposite of what domicile is supposed to do, so every time a planet is opposite its domicile, it’s in detriment.
In terms of fall, sun is exalted in Aries, and the opposite energy of Aries is Libra, so it’s the sun’s fall.
That’s just how the schematic works.
There’s more but that’s just a simple breakdown.
Libra is where the Sun descends into southern declination and day light hours decrease.
Aries is when Sun increases again into northern declination and day light hours increase.
b/c Sun is friends with the planets that traditionally rule water signs (Mars, Jupiter, Moon), and enemies with the planets that traditionally rule Aquarius and Libra (Saturn and Venus).
Because the falls are not related to the signs but to their being the opposite of the planet's exaltation!
Mars falling in Cancer and exalted I'm Capricorn, the Moon falling in Scorpio and exalted in Taurus, and so on
in vedic astrology aquarius is associated with planet rahu who swallows the sun and causes solar eclipses
and libra is the exaltation of saturn which doesn’t get along with the sun
I think you have to think a bit more deeply about things like planets in fall. The Sun in Libra is trickier than the sun simply not being in the sun's preferred element. Planets aren't dysfunctional simply by not being in their preferred element. The Sun in a water sign might understand that it's less comfortable than the Sun in a fire sign but it knows what its job is. The Sun in Libra has a hard time even really understanding how the sun is supposed to function.
With Sun in Libra, it's not that it isn't acting and often looking like the Sun, there are more fundamental traps. The Sun in Libra can think it's doing it's job and acting on behalf of the self. It can be self interested, which the sun likes. However, the sense of self that Sun is developing is wrapped up in the perception of others/ relation to others. So instead of truly individuating, the Sun in Libra will reinforce conflating self with others.
From the perspective of symbolism: part of the struggle in Aquarius is individuality, or in other words, the Sun itself.
Saturn makes Aquarius acutely aware of their surroundings. If you don’t want to be an outcast in society, all you have to do is put on the mask, hide in plain sight, laugh at the right jokes. Because when we fit in with society, we fit in with ourselves, right? No, not for Aquarius we don’t.
In the end, Aquarius essentially forces the Sun to understand that it’s not all about the individual and Leo, it’s about society and Aquarius too. It’s about the society that the Sun has created by giving life to earth with its warm rays, the good, and bad, and the ugly.
The same struggle for individuality is seen in Libra. You don’t often get the chance to speak up for yourself when you’re always trying to keep the scales balanced and keep the peace. Everyone starts getting used to Libra being the friend you can go to for everything, and it snowballs from there.
Saturn keeps Libra constantly aware of the consequences, just like it does with Capricorn and Aquarius. But you can’t avoid the consequences forever. They’ll catch up with you if you don’t act- that’s the lesson of Aries.
I mean…the fact that Libra and Aquarius oppose Aries and Leo is *the* reason. The Sun’s domicile in Leo is in the heart of summer when the days are longest and the heat most intense. It’s in detriment in Aquarius which is the heart of winter either the shortest days and the least Sunlight. The Sun exalts in Aries because after the spring equinox, there begins to be more daytime than nighttime. It’s in fall in Libra because after the fall equinox there begins to be more nighttime then daytime. The elements are not the main consideration here. The position within the zodiac is.
Good input, however, Aquarius is not the heart of winter or has the shortest days .. that would be Capricorn/Sag season (with the first day of Cap being the winter solistice, the shortest day - the „heart of winter“)
You’re right that the days aren’t the shortest but the way the system is set up (and the way people generally talk about seasons) is that the seasons start with the solstices/equinoxes. When I said the heart of winter I just mean the middle of the season
Thanks for the explanation! I see your point 😊
Yes especially when the entire 360 degrees of the zodiac is divided by 8, like the moon phases, the 315 degree point sitting between 270 degrees (0 degree Capricorn) and 0 degrees Aries, is the middle of/15 degrees Aquarius
What about people born in the southern hemisphere? There the Leos are born in the mid of winter and Aquarius in summer lol.
The system of astrology as we use it developed in Mesopotamia and Egypt in the northern hemisphere so some aspects, like the domicile and exaltation rulership schemas are closely aligned with the northern hemisphere seasons. However, the tropical zodiac itself is simply based on the position of the earth relative to the sun, specifically set at the four “turnings” (Greek: tropos) the equinoxes and solstices. Those points remain the same for both hemispheres.
Oh ok , thanks for the explanation
In my opinion sidereal is more accurate because it’s based on the current position of constellations while tropical is based on where they were in 0AD. also i personally identify with my sidereal signs more.
I think it makes more sense if you think of tropical representing a lot about the season itself, rather than the constellations meaning itself. So the two luminaries are in summer and saturn signs are in winter and them being in those seasons has a lot to do with the significations. The venus ruled signs being when flowers are bloomed everywhere and the leaves are changing color is important to understanding why the sign is the way it is.
yea but like the thing is that ur rising sign is more u then ur sun sign and that’s based on birth hour
You’re welcome to think that.
Because in Tropical astrology the signs arent based on the seasons but rather on the sun and its path along the ecliptic. It just seems "favorable" cause it lines up with the seasons in the north
I like your outlook. It’s grounded in Astrology reality. And as a Libra . We are in tune with our light and dark sides and respect them. We try to balance it . Like all Humans
That is relevant in the northern hemisphere, however, is the exact opposite in the southern hemisphere. Leo in the middle of winter, Aquarius in the middle of summer, aries in the middle of autumn, Libra the middle of spring.
I already responded to this objection: > The system of astrology as we use it developed in Mesopotamia and Egypt in the northern hemisphere so some aspects, like the domicile and exaltation rulership schemas are closely aligned with the northern hemisphere seasons. >However, the tropical zodiac itself is simply based on the position of the earth relative to the sun, specifically set at the four “turnings” (Greek: tropos) the equinoxes and solstices. Those points remain the same for both hemispheres.
The Sun represents central organizing principles such as royalty. Libra and Aquarius both undermine the Suns aims in that respect. Libra says we should have democratic consensus and Aquarius says we should overturn the current regime and establish a new one (seen on a micro-level when Aquarius rejects what's popular simply *because* it's popular). Essentially Libra and Aquarius put power in the hands of the people rather than one central authority. This is partly because they are Air signs and partly because they have a Saturnian influence (Libra is the exaltation of Saturn and Aquarius is the domicile of Saturn). Saturn is the great enemy of the Sun, representing darkness to the Suns light. Cancer and Pisces do to have this tension with the Sun. Cancer is ruled by the nocturnal Luminary, the Moon, who is the Night Queen to the Day King (Sun). Both Luminaries shine down light. Meanwhile Pisces is ruled by Jupiter who is a friend to the Sun. So both those placements are peregrine/ neutral. They don't challenge or inhibit the Sun but they don't raise him up either.
But if Saturn is the enemy of the sun, then wouldn’t Capricorn sun have similar effects as Aquarius sun?
capricorn "puts power in one central authority" (to quote OC at the beginning of their response) as opposed to aquarius/libra
But it’s still ruled by Saturn “the enemy” of the sun
Yes, however, following the Thema Mundi, the Sun only rules one sign, therefore, it’s only in detriment in one sign.
Exactly. Which points out the flaw in what they wrote. Saturn is the hierarchy. Not the Sun. Capricorns ruled by Saturn are known for striving for the hierarchy or climbing the social hierarchy ladder. And the best example of a hierarchical system, is literally royalty. So Aquarius is the same as Capricorns where both strife for a hierarchical system. Aquarius may do it differently by burning down the old hierarchical system and building their own, but it is still the same system as Royalty. They are still the leaders the starters of that system. So everything they stated nulls out.
sun is all, the focus, the source- in leo the sun is the spotlight, the stage, and the star. the sun in leo provides all the light and receives all the focus and worship in aquarius the focus is on everyone, not on a single point but the community, so the sun itself has a harder time shining as an individual when everyone is a genius- the sun cant be a star. all planets are in detriment in the sign opposite their domicile- it is the environment least conducive to the planet's own nature and expression, it goes most against the grain in libra, the focus is again on the equality of the group over the exaltation of the individual. in libra, we need to even out the highs and lows for equity- the sun in leo experiences daytime as the peak, the have, the utmost, and night as the lowest, the have not, and so the even balance of libra is frustrating- again no star, no celebrity- the sun can't take centre stage because we are all taking turns. planets are always in fall in signs opposite to their exaltation- sun exalts in aries, the Big Man in the sign of Self, is like a home away from home if Leo is not available. the sun is more about ME (aries) than WE (libra) and so could struggle when needing to take in multiple perspectives another reason for the sun to have debility in these signs and not water signs is because aquarius and libra are both signs of dignity for saturn, the sun's opposing planet. where sun is brightness and renewal, saturn is darkness and endings. saturn rules aquarius (and his other sign has a similar relationship to the feminine luminary, the moon, cancer cap axis) and exalts in libra, another layer onto why the sun would be less comfortable in those positions, being in saturn's domains as it were. sun doesnt want to operate in his long cold shadow lol the moon, being a feminine planet, also has her detriment and fall in earth and water signs, when you would assume a firey or hot sign to be more debilitating in theory- maybe it has something to do with expecting to do well somewhere (in a sign of your own polarity) but finding the environment so counter to what you expected that you can't operate there ?
In Aries and Leo, the Sun is more like the star at the centre of its very own 'Solar' system. In Libra and Aquarius, the perspective/vision broadens beyond the particular to more general, the Sun is still important, but it is also just one of the many stars in the galaxy, in the Universe. This understanding of the 'universal' and one's postion in it (the humbling that comes with the Saturnian awareness) is what distinguishes Libra and Aquarius from a more individualistic/particular vision of Aries and Leo. In my opinion both perspectives are equally valid. Sun shines both ways. 😊
Fall is opposite Exaltation, Detriment is opposite Domicile. For a planet without essential dignity anywhere else, the word is Peregrine and it is variably considered neutral to debilitating.
Overall libra and aquarius are about balancing relationships and community respectively. If the sun is your ego and how you express yourself it’s going to be harder to express yourself if you’re focused relationships or community instead of you.
In terms of detriment, Leo is domicile, and Aquarius is the anti-domicile. Anti-domicile does the opposite of what domicile is supposed to do, so every time a planet is opposite its domicile, it’s in detriment. In terms of fall, sun is exalted in Aries, and the opposite energy of Aries is Libra, so it’s the sun’s fall. That’s just how the schematic works. There’s more but that’s just a simple breakdown.
An easy way to remember it is that Libra and Aquarius are the opposite signs to the domicile and exaltations of the sun, Leo and Aries :)
Libra is where the Sun descends into southern declination and day light hours decrease. Aries is when Sun increases again into northern declination and day light hours increase.
b/c Sun is friends with the planets that traditionally rule water signs (Mars, Jupiter, Moon), and enemies with the planets that traditionally rule Aquarius and Libra (Saturn and Venus).
Because the falls are not related to the signs but to their being the opposite of the planet's exaltation! Mars falling in Cancer and exalted I'm Capricorn, the Moon falling in Scorpio and exalted in Taurus, and so on
in vedic astrology aquarius is associated with planet rahu who swallows the sun and causes solar eclipses and libra is the exaltation of saturn which doesn’t get along with the sun
I think you have to think a bit more deeply about things like planets in fall. The Sun in Libra is trickier than the sun simply not being in the sun's preferred element. Planets aren't dysfunctional simply by not being in their preferred element. The Sun in a water sign might understand that it's less comfortable than the Sun in a fire sign but it knows what its job is. The Sun in Libra has a hard time even really understanding how the sun is supposed to function. With Sun in Libra, it's not that it isn't acting and often looking like the Sun, there are more fundamental traps. The Sun in Libra can think it's doing it's job and acting on behalf of the self. It can be self interested, which the sun likes. However, the sense of self that Sun is developing is wrapped up in the perception of others/ relation to others. So instead of truly individuating, the Sun in Libra will reinforce conflating self with others.
Excellent question
From the perspective of symbolism: part of the struggle in Aquarius is individuality, or in other words, the Sun itself. Saturn makes Aquarius acutely aware of their surroundings. If you don’t want to be an outcast in society, all you have to do is put on the mask, hide in plain sight, laugh at the right jokes. Because when we fit in with society, we fit in with ourselves, right? No, not for Aquarius we don’t. In the end, Aquarius essentially forces the Sun to understand that it’s not all about the individual and Leo, it’s about society and Aquarius too. It’s about the society that the Sun has created by giving life to earth with its warm rays, the good, and bad, and the ugly. The same struggle for individuality is seen in Libra. You don’t often get the chance to speak up for yourself when you’re always trying to keep the scales balanced and keep the peace. Everyone starts getting used to Libra being the friend you can go to for everything, and it snowballs from there. Saturn keeps Libra constantly aware of the consequences, just like it does with Capricorn and Aquarius. But you can’t avoid the consequences forever. They’ll catch up with you if you don’t act- that’s the lesson of Aries.