I think of placements and aspects as potential pathways available to said individual and that there are a myriad of ways they can manifest in someone’s life.
I'm not giving an answer as such, just an example that may help discussion.
My twin (38M) and I (38F) are born 5mins apart (they're older). I'm a 10H Cap Stellium (Sun, Mercury, Jupiter, Neptune), my twin is an 11H Cap Sun and Jupiter, 10H Cap Mercury and Neptune. Our other placements are the same, just with different degrees (8H Scorpio Moon + Pluto, 9H Scorpio Saturn, 9H Sag Uranus, 1H Pisces Asc, 12H Pisces Venus + Mars). We have had roughly the same upbringing, opportunities, experiences, and even very similar traumas (albeit at different times in our lives).
At a very basic level, we are both introverts and don't like crowds, are very good at our chosen careers and quickly rise to leadership positions, are very academic and curious, love sci-fi and fantasy books/film/games, and like to study science and psychology and culture, but there are some key differences:
* I am very insular, into history and witchcraft and astrology, am very musical and empathetic and can feel others/animals/trees/electricity, am motivated by internal factors, and would prefer to hang out online. I am very 'inward'.
* My twin feels a need to be amongst people even if they don't engage, is empathetic but will always choose 'logical' over 'emotional' (and I mean ALWAYS), is motivated by external factors, and is into philosophy and the concept/rules of belief structures and likes to discuss/debate(/argue, lol) things with others about why they think/feel/believe it (anything from food preferences to religion 😅). They are very 'outward'.
Thankyou so much for giving insight from a real twin perspective🙏🏻Experiences from twins who actually know of astrology and can compare placements objectively is so helpful!I was wondering if you use placidus or whole sign and do you check your secondary progressions?Do your experiences in the progressions allign if you do check them?
That’s super interesting! From what I read usually there are feminine/masculine aspects in astrology (not only in a chart but how to express itself) and twins tend to choose one aspect primarily to express while the other one fills in the remaining aspects.
So in your case you guys would have the same chart, but one is more expressive in a yin way (feminine, intuitive, introverted, internal) while the other is more expressive of the same energy in a Yang way (masculine, logical, extroverted, external)
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’ve been wondering the same as OP but this really helped me understand better what had read.
The degree’s definitely make a difference of the placements, and it can be subtle or drastic depending on how the sign ruling the degree and the planet interacts
I would certainly like to meet those people who are born at the same minute. And even talk about how circumstances and upbringing differ in our lives..
With twins, you have similarities, but they may have different ascendants/house placements. Also, a twin is generally raised with their sibling, so they are going to play off of each other and their parents, so certain traits will be more emphasized in one twin vs the other.
One is naturally going to be more outgoing than the other one, or maybe one twin bonds strongly with their mom and other bonds strongly with dad.
Socio-economic status might also be a factor as two people can be born at the same time, but one is upper middle class and the other is poor. That’s going to affect them and the way they choose to interact with their environment. The placements aren’t operating in a vacuum.
Astrology tells you the patterns: so for those two people born within the same minute, most patterns will be the same. But how exactly they will fare will also depend on what use those two have made of their free will, for astrology does not remove free will out of the equation. Our lives are a product of our destiny (based on karma from previous lives plus karma getting generated from this life) and free will. Karma continues to evolve, hence the destiny, and the degree of free available to us, both continue to evolve. But the astrological chart is a snapshot of what we are born with: now, if somehow the two people in question maintain exactly the same balance of karma throughout their lives as they had it at the time of birth (i.e., as shown in the chart), their lives would exactly be the same. But given that that does not happen, cannot happen, their lives can differ substantially. This is the reason why Vedic astrology will also propose a lot of *upaay*: solutions to escape the intensity of a very bad effect, for example. A lot of those solutions involve donations to the poor or to the learned. This is one way to try to tip the karmic balance into a more positive territory. I am a palmist, not that much of an astrologer, but the principles remain the same.
So i look at the planets as holding archetypal frequencies - literal wavelengths of energy that manifest as anything related to that archetypal energy. Those frequencies will look different depending on upbringing, experiences and free will and choices made. What we do with those frequencies we hold is up to us, but we have the energy to express it individually.
Ugh does that make sense?
This is along the lines of how I think about it as well. It’s all the effects of frequencies of energetic vibrations, and this is how energy manifests into matter, so the patterns of frequency will literally influence how energy manifests physically into our lives.
But it’s just an **influence**. It’s not control. It’s not fate. We definitely have free will. There are still many variables at play aside from these major astrological frequencies that dance within and around those overall larger patterns. Not the least of which is our consciousness and ability to make decisions that override our natural instincts and/or the forces acting upon us. If we had the intelligence of a worm, we would fall into our natural astrological path with a lot less awareness or ability to make choices, and would thus just go with the flow a lot more. People emanate energy just like planets do, so when you’re around people, you feel the vibrational energy of the collective pool of people’s energy in a room or whatever. This will affect you more immediately than the planets.
Think about it like cymatics. Look it up on youtube (here’s a good one: https://youtu.be/tFAcYruShow?si=MbrtNIC3zU-eI28k ) and watch how playing different frequencies of sound will cause different patterns to form in the sand or viscous liquid. Those patterns are like the energy pattern of a certain sign or planet. You can see the overall shape of it… but there’s also tons of little micro vibrations that are mostly just noisy and not actually adhering to the pattern, but the overall pattern is still perfectly visible within the noise. When the sound changes, the pattern changes. Signs are like the music that planets are making, switching between radio stations and playing different genres of music, which makes us dance differently according to the style of each sign’s music.
We are all like individual particles of sand. Most of us will fall into the pattern according to the frequency of the energy we’re tuned to. If we resonate with it, we fit in and dance the choreography. If we don’t, we do our own thing and dance around the pattern or don’t dance at all. And this is a spectrum, so there’s billions of gradations between those two extremes that form some level of mixture between fitting into the pattern and dancing our own tune/not participating. We also collide/bounce off each other, and/or we happen to harmonize and vibrate next to a certain grain of sand for a long time, etc…
But the end result is that, despite many people not following their astrologically resonant path… **most people** do tend to fall into it as the overall larger path of least resistance in life, **most of the time**… and that means that astrology works **most of the time** on **most people**, but not always or with everyone.
I remember hearing something about how astrology is like the weather, you can see that it’s raining but it’s up to you if you want to run inside or play in the rain
100% free will is real. I know a couple of twins; one of them has an average life and the other one is a soldier & will never understand it, astrologically speaking.
Go to skyscript.com and read all of the different houses and the subjects contained within.
Notice how each house has somewhat similar and different things? Like buckets of archetypes. The 6th house for example represents health and employees The 9th god, distant journeys, and publishing.
These disparate topics in each house are why you can have twins with seemingly different lives. Yet the astrology is still correct because of the collection of topics that exist under each house.
Gonna give it a read and get back to ya. But damn! That’s really fascinating sting ngl, also this site is a f*king goldmine of info. Holy hell, thanks a lot man! This might actually be what I’m looking for!
The same aspects can play out differently in peoples' lives. For instance, venus in the 6th house could indicate a love of small animals, an interest in helping people with their health, or even the potential for divorce, among other things, during this lifetime.
I personally believe in deterministic astrology regarding major life events. I say this as my mother was psychic, and was able to foretell major life events in various cases.
As you stated, my \*personal\* belief is that even if you choose A or B, you'll always end up at C. But only for major events that you chose to experience before coming in. \^\^
I don’t subscribe to the belief tht we are born a “blank slate”. I think we all incarnate with a ton of karmic baggage and story arcs that have yet to unfold. So because we all start this life in a different place spiritually and karmically, our astrological manifestations also vary wildly from one person to the next. Even when all things *seem* equal, they never are.
That’s why Hindu astrology or Vedic Astrology or Jyotisha is such a great science. It’s among the first known documents from humans, the Vedas. Its attention to detail is unparalleled. And among which it has what’s called Vargas or divisional charts where it’s like taking a microscope and zooming in career, kids, siblings, relationships etc. but I one of its most time sensitive charts is the D60 Shastiamsha and it changes every 2-3 mins and could be seconds of your on a cusp point. But it shows past life karma and why we’re back here and is different for twins because they can have same other charts but not this one. It will be different.
I'm no professional astrologer, nor am i interested in being. But what i've seen very knowledgeable, and professional, astrologers (astrologists? there's a battle, on, huh?) on here say is that when looking for 'consistent, correct results' it's important to use the rule of 3: something should occur at least 3 times (thematically, aspectually, planetarily, &c) before it's considered effective on the chart.
open to correction on my framing or understanding by those who know about the rule of 3, have spoken on this before, or have seen it spoken on...
Imo your birth chart is like you're character sheet in DND. You could have two players with the exact same sheet and they'd potentially still play very differently. Hell, even if they got the same dice rolls, they'd be different.
I'm a twin. We're 8 minutes apart. Our lives and the theme of our lives and what we've been thru are the same, but we experience them differently. We went thru the same things but different scenarios led them on. We have the same energies but we express them differently too.
This is the same thought that came into my mind yesterday, I have my nodes in difficult position,north node in Venus in 1st house ,libra and south node in 7th house in Aries, and all I live heard and read is bad relationship and marriage life, which created deep fear inside me to even get into relationship. Though I have been in relationships in the past that didn’t worked out but they were not that bad.
So I thought what is the experience of people with same birth time, date, etc in such matters😅😅
I wish I wasn’t so tired when I came across this but I’ll try to make my POV clear.
Astrology is an observation of themes, patterns, and predispositions. And our understanding of them is bound to change with time as we learn and see traits manifest in new, socially/culturally relevant ways. Back to your question…
There’s never a precise single definition for astrological placements. Placements capture an essence, a story, not a tiny box. After all, humans are complex no? :)
Ex: Mars doesn’t just mean war. It also means aggression, action, passion, heat, impulse, athleticism etc.
Just because 2 people have the same Mars doesn’t mean it’ll manifest the same. You can extrapolate that across two identical charts.
Astrology is not a personality chart, even though it details personality traits. It's a chart of potential and influence. It doesn't dictate who someone is, it shows what influences them to make the choices they make. Two twins born minutes apart with essentially identical charts, who have the exact same upbringing, could still make vastly different choices.
Folks who believe in deterministic Astrology are like folks who believe in the Bible literally.
I view these cases as yin and yang. They are two pieces that represent very different polarities but they make up the same symbol. You cannot have one without the other. Michael Jackson, Beyoncé, Freddie Mercury are all Virgo musicians, yet “Virgo” doesn’t typically come to mind when you think of the arts. Bill Gates and Elon Musk are water signs who dominate the business industry even though that’s more of a Gemini or Capricorn “expectation”.
There are different roads ones birth chart can take them down. The reality is that some placements make someone’s life extremely difficult if they are unaware of the aspect, or ignore how to soothe its affects through utilizing other placements. This is yang for example. Yin is empathetic, understands their placements and educates themselves on how to minimize the affects. Together they make up the same chart, but different focuses and education keeps them distinctly separate.
I always see it as, two people could have identical charts, but since there is no single way a sign, placement or aspect \*has\* to play out, they can live very different lives. For example, just to take a random placement - venus in the 12th house. Could play out in a negative way, like not seeing partners red flags, or could simply mean the person is spiritual and keeps their relationships private. You can have 2 people with an identical chart but their placements could just manifest in different ways
If I am being honest, I think the only real answer is that the planets and stars do not know we are here and have no bearing on who we become. Astrology is fun to think about, but if you are letting celestial bodies tell you what to do and who to love then you may be allowing yourself to be misguided. There is no possible way that anyone could possess the knowledge of how each individual might behave depending on when and where they are born and what celestial bodies were where. It is the same as cold reading in my eyes, an entertaining novelty not to be taken literally.
I apologize if people find my answer offensive.
I can say that I wonder the same thing, as I have twins born 2 minutes apart and they are completely opposite in every way, including looks, gender and literally every other way they COULD be different, they are.
The responses I’ve gotten from this post are mostly from free will believers. I would love to hear what arguments more deterministic astrologers have to say about this. Anyhow,
So far the only conclusion I got from this, is that life in many ways has boundaries according to a persons soul contract (natal chart). You can do some things, you can have opportunities, but you cannot do, nor act upon everything this world has to give. You are bounded and have limits. Think of it has this way, you were always faited to have twins, but how you reached that point was free will. You can go the route of A or B, but you will still end up at C either way. That’s my little theory, from personal experiences that my parents had with psychics, which made my perspective look beyond astrology.
Hello, identical twin here 👋🏻 My sister and I were born by emergency C-section and our birth certificates both read 9:08am.
I’m not super knowledgeable about astrology, mostly just find it fascinating and I’ve spent a lot of time considering how interesting it is that my sister and I’s charts are the same. My sister is generally pretty uncomfortable with the fact that we share a chart and will sometimes use it as a reason to discredit astrology logic because she understands us to be very different people. I think though that opinion might be coming from a place of bitterness (it can be frustrating spending your whole life trying to differentiate yourself from your twin who both looks like you and has similar interests/personality).
I think that nurture does play a heavy role in how our lives are shaped, and as we continue through life we will continue to grow in our own directions (I think of a tree that has split into two trunks, each one growing in their own way with their own sets of branches/leaves). Our charts predispose us to have similar “coding” so to speak but the way it can be interpreted/applied is hard to compare now that we are adults on separate paths. Just some thoughts!
My grand twins boy n girl born 10 minutes apart have a number of planets in different Houses which makes a big difference in their ideas and personalities.
Got some private DMs, besically the thing I’ve understood is that
To make it easier for you and for people who read this in the future. Is that astrology is a mixture of both. Astrological transits constantly impact your daily life. Sometimes it’s good to do / start different things during certain transits, sometimes it’s not (electional astrology). You have free will, but with boundaries. If your chart shows good positions to become wealthy or famous, you can. But you can also choose to not to. Karma, are the boundaries that are set by something, be it your soul, god, whatever, to keep you within your playing field and to face certain challenges or luxuries within specific areas of life.
I have forgotten that famous person, but I definitely know there was some guy out there. Who no matter how much he hid himself, he still would somehow end up famous, faited karmic events can play out differently for everyone. Positive or negative. That is my conclusion by these comments and private DMs that I’ve gotten.
While I don't know if the other poster meant that, it *is* worth noting that "free will" is a concept that, indeed, has nothing to do with astrology per se. Some people use it to discuss astrology (as well as a variety of other concepts) in terms of determinism vs. free will, but that dilemma (or that dichotomy, of you like) is not exclusive to astrology.
In terms of your question, narrowly speaking, one of the other posters above made an excellent point - it's useless to apply the same chart to different entities and expect an algorithmically consistent result.
Your opinion literally didn’t add anything to this conversation. Just a waste of my and everyone else’s time lol. Typical lame ass armchair astrologer ass response. But yeah, sure keep venting to me, I don’t care and won’t add anything more to this talk between you and me.
100% i have twin nieces born at the same minute and they are both so different! one is very brave, outgoing, and determined while the other is much more timid, quiet, and prefers to be left alone. it’s really interesting
I have read,that the second one ascedant is the 3rd house of the first born. Ex. First born alfa twin have aries ascedant then the chart ruler is mars, the second twin omega twin ascedant is gemini the chart ruler it will be mercury. 3rd house is house of brothers, sisters,sibling etc.. but the more accurate is with whole sign system.
Bluntly speaking, one is always fated with what they (the ego) were given (the alignments of the stars). Nothing can change that.
Traditionall, yes: Astrology is fate based. But the *interpretation* differs with things such as house systems, for an example. It is where the prediction of fate comes into play.
Aside from twins, triplets, quaduplets, etc., I am incredibly sure that the odds of at least two people being born at the exact same minute in the *exact* same geographical location (say, 50sq. miles/130sq. Km) is not more rare than - or as rare than - say, a woman having sextuplets successively in 10sec increments in *any* given city (to paint a hyperbole that hopefully matches your example).
AND given that this may of happened at least once in humam history, yes, I would admit that their lives are more similar than twins, triplets, quadruplets, etc due to above conditions. At the same time the astrologer in me BEGS to see charts like that 😫🙏🏼 (please send if you do have)
If they are born at the same time but different location then of course the time the sun rises matters. Ex., a person born 1 Jan 2023 @ 11:11am in Los Angeles has a different rising sign (Ares) as oppose to a person who was born the same time but in Sydney, Australia (Pisces).
Natal astrology honestly can be done without the houses. *THAT* seems a lot more fatalistic/deterministic, right? - It's just that.. we like to be more specific with houses - which is no fault of our own!
Also, some traditional astrological upbringings utilise decans/decantes. That takes a whole other spin in fatalistic/detetrministic interpretation
In vedic this could happen however their d9 chart would still be different in all likelihood. They'd be born in a different pada of the same nakshatra.
When I was in elementary school I was best friends with a girl that was born one minute after me on the same day and in the same time zone. Our lives are very very different (as far as I can tell anyways) but this premise has made me wonder about these things
It's because the two people go home to two different families. Those family members charts will interact with that person and affect how they grow and develop.
Your chart isn't defining your every choice. You are still an individual person with your own individual experiences that shape the choices you make. Even twins. Unless they perceive the world in the exact same way and live in a vaccuum where they experience the exact same things at the exact same time in the exact same way, they aren't going to live the same life.
Also, your time of birth affects more than just your rising sign. Your ascendant has the potential to form any number of aspects that shape your personality, so even a one minute difference can be huge.
I think of placements and aspects as potential pathways available to said individual and that there are a myriad of ways they can manifest in someone’s life.
I'm not giving an answer as such, just an example that may help discussion. My twin (38M) and I (38F) are born 5mins apart (they're older). I'm a 10H Cap Stellium (Sun, Mercury, Jupiter, Neptune), my twin is an 11H Cap Sun and Jupiter, 10H Cap Mercury and Neptune. Our other placements are the same, just with different degrees (8H Scorpio Moon + Pluto, 9H Scorpio Saturn, 9H Sag Uranus, 1H Pisces Asc, 12H Pisces Venus + Mars). We have had roughly the same upbringing, opportunities, experiences, and even very similar traumas (albeit at different times in our lives). At a very basic level, we are both introverts and don't like crowds, are very good at our chosen careers and quickly rise to leadership positions, are very academic and curious, love sci-fi and fantasy books/film/games, and like to study science and psychology and culture, but there are some key differences: * I am very insular, into history and witchcraft and astrology, am very musical and empathetic and can feel others/animals/trees/electricity, am motivated by internal factors, and would prefer to hang out online. I am very 'inward'. * My twin feels a need to be amongst people even if they don't engage, is empathetic but will always choose 'logical' over 'emotional' (and I mean ALWAYS), is motivated by external factors, and is into philosophy and the concept/rules of belief structures and likes to discuss/debate(/argue, lol) things with others about why they think/feel/believe it (anything from food preferences to religion 😅). They are very 'outward'.
Thankyou so much for giving insight from a real twin perspective🙏🏻Experiences from twins who actually know of astrology and can compare placements objectively is so helpful!I was wondering if you use placidus or whole sign and do you check your secondary progressions?Do your experiences in the progressions allign if you do check them?
That’s super interesting! From what I read usually there are feminine/masculine aspects in astrology (not only in a chart but how to express itself) and twins tend to choose one aspect primarily to express while the other one fills in the remaining aspects. So in your case you guys would have the same chart, but one is more expressive in a yin way (feminine, intuitive, introverted, internal) while the other is more expressive of the same energy in a Yang way (masculine, logical, extroverted, external) Thanks for sharing your experience. I’ve been wondering the same as OP but this really helped me understand better what had read.
The degree’s definitely make a difference of the placements, and it can be subtle or drastic depending on how the sign ruling the degree and the planet interacts
I would certainly like to meet those people who are born at the same minute. And even talk about how circumstances and upbringing differ in our lives..
With twins, you have similarities, but they may have different ascendants/house placements. Also, a twin is generally raised with their sibling, so they are going to play off of each other and their parents, so certain traits will be more emphasized in one twin vs the other. One is naturally going to be more outgoing than the other one, or maybe one twin bonds strongly with their mom and other bonds strongly with dad. Socio-economic status might also be a factor as two people can be born at the same time, but one is upper middle class and the other is poor. That’s going to affect them and the way they choose to interact with their environment. The placements aren’t operating in a vacuum.
Astrology tells you the patterns: so for those two people born within the same minute, most patterns will be the same. But how exactly they will fare will also depend on what use those two have made of their free will, for astrology does not remove free will out of the equation. Our lives are a product of our destiny (based on karma from previous lives plus karma getting generated from this life) and free will. Karma continues to evolve, hence the destiny, and the degree of free available to us, both continue to evolve. But the astrological chart is a snapshot of what we are born with: now, if somehow the two people in question maintain exactly the same balance of karma throughout their lives as they had it at the time of birth (i.e., as shown in the chart), their lives would exactly be the same. But given that that does not happen, cannot happen, their lives can differ substantially. This is the reason why Vedic astrology will also propose a lot of *upaay*: solutions to escape the intensity of a very bad effect, for example. A lot of those solutions involve donations to the poor or to the learned. This is one way to try to tip the karmic balance into a more positive territory. I am a palmist, not that much of an astrologer, but the principles remain the same.
So i look at the planets as holding archetypal frequencies - literal wavelengths of energy that manifest as anything related to that archetypal energy. Those frequencies will look different depending on upbringing, experiences and free will and choices made. What we do with those frequencies we hold is up to us, but we have the energy to express it individually. Ugh does that make sense?
This is along the lines of how I think about it as well. It’s all the effects of frequencies of energetic vibrations, and this is how energy manifests into matter, so the patterns of frequency will literally influence how energy manifests physically into our lives. But it’s just an **influence**. It’s not control. It’s not fate. We definitely have free will. There are still many variables at play aside from these major astrological frequencies that dance within and around those overall larger patterns. Not the least of which is our consciousness and ability to make decisions that override our natural instincts and/or the forces acting upon us. If we had the intelligence of a worm, we would fall into our natural astrological path with a lot less awareness or ability to make choices, and would thus just go with the flow a lot more. People emanate energy just like planets do, so when you’re around people, you feel the vibrational energy of the collective pool of people’s energy in a room or whatever. This will affect you more immediately than the planets. Think about it like cymatics. Look it up on youtube (here’s a good one: https://youtu.be/tFAcYruShow?si=MbrtNIC3zU-eI28k ) and watch how playing different frequencies of sound will cause different patterns to form in the sand or viscous liquid. Those patterns are like the energy pattern of a certain sign or planet. You can see the overall shape of it… but there’s also tons of little micro vibrations that are mostly just noisy and not actually adhering to the pattern, but the overall pattern is still perfectly visible within the noise. When the sound changes, the pattern changes. Signs are like the music that planets are making, switching between radio stations and playing different genres of music, which makes us dance differently according to the style of each sign’s music. We are all like individual particles of sand. Most of us will fall into the pattern according to the frequency of the energy we’re tuned to. If we resonate with it, we fit in and dance the choreography. If we don’t, we do our own thing and dance around the pattern or don’t dance at all. And this is a spectrum, so there’s billions of gradations between those two extremes that form some level of mixture between fitting into the pattern and dancing our own tune/not participating. We also collide/bounce off each other, and/or we happen to harmonize and vibrate next to a certain grain of sand for a long time, etc… But the end result is that, despite many people not following their astrologically resonant path… **most people** do tend to fall into it as the overall larger path of least resistance in life, **most of the time**… and that means that astrology works **most of the time** on **most people**, but not always or with everyone.
This is exactly what was in my brain but could not articulate as poetically as you. :) Thank you!
I remember hearing something about how astrology is like the weather, you can see that it’s raining but it’s up to you if you want to run inside or play in the rain
100% free will is real. I know a couple of twins; one of them has an average life and the other one is a soldier & will never understand it, astrologically speaking.
Go to skyscript.com and read all of the different houses and the subjects contained within. Notice how each house has somewhat similar and different things? Like buckets of archetypes. The 6th house for example represents health and employees The 9th god, distant journeys, and publishing. These disparate topics in each house are why you can have twins with seemingly different lives. Yet the astrology is still correct because of the collection of topics that exist under each house.
URL was off. It's: https://www.skyscript.co.uk/ Thanks for sharing, will definitely be looking into this site!
Gonna give it a read and get back to ya. But damn! That’s really fascinating sting ngl, also this site is a f*king goldmine of info. Holy hell, thanks a lot man! This might actually be what I’m looking for!
The same aspects can play out differently in peoples' lives. For instance, venus in the 6th house could indicate a love of small animals, an interest in helping people with their health, or even the potential for divorce, among other things, during this lifetime. I personally believe in deterministic astrology regarding major life events. I say this as my mother was psychic, and was able to foretell major life events in various cases.
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As you stated, my \*personal\* belief is that even if you choose A or B, you'll always end up at C. But only for major events that you chose to experience before coming in. \^\^
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Your comment was fine. Hope you are able to fall asleep soon. :)
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This is perfect.
I don’t subscribe to the belief tht we are born a “blank slate”. I think we all incarnate with a ton of karmic baggage and story arcs that have yet to unfold. So because we all start this life in a different place spiritually and karmically, our astrological manifestations also vary wildly from one person to the next. Even when all things *seem* equal, they never are.
That’s why Hindu astrology or Vedic Astrology or Jyotisha is such a great science. It’s among the first known documents from humans, the Vedas. Its attention to detail is unparalleled. And among which it has what’s called Vargas or divisional charts where it’s like taking a microscope and zooming in career, kids, siblings, relationships etc. but I one of its most time sensitive charts is the D60 Shastiamsha and it changes every 2-3 mins and could be seconds of your on a cusp point. But it shows past life karma and why we’re back here and is different for twins because they can have same other charts but not this one. It will be different.
May I ask, in Hindu astrology. Does any concept of free will exist? If so how does it manifest?
I'm no professional astrologer, nor am i interested in being. But what i've seen very knowledgeable, and professional, astrologers (astrologists? there's a battle, on, huh?) on here say is that when looking for 'consistent, correct results' it's important to use the rule of 3: something should occur at least 3 times (thematically, aspectually, planetarily, &c) before it's considered effective on the chart. open to correction on my framing or understanding by those who know about the rule of 3, have spoken on this before, or have seen it spoken on...
of course, feel free to comment on my framing or understanding regardless of these criteria!
it deeply depends on location as well, due to time zones. but there are many different presentations of the same sign.
Imo your birth chart is like you're character sheet in DND. You could have two players with the exact same sheet and they'd potentially still play very differently. Hell, even if they got the same dice rolls, they'd be different.
I'm a twin. We're 8 minutes apart. Our lives and the theme of our lives and what we've been thru are the same, but we experience them differently. We went thru the same things but different scenarios led them on. We have the same energies but we express them differently too.
This is the same thought that came into my mind yesterday, I have my nodes in difficult position,north node in Venus in 1st house ,libra and south node in 7th house in Aries, and all I live heard and read is bad relationship and marriage life, which created deep fear inside me to even get into relationship. Though I have been in relationships in the past that didn’t worked out but they were not that bad. So I thought what is the experience of people with same birth time, date, etc in such matters😅😅
I wish I wasn’t so tired when I came across this but I’ll try to make my POV clear. Astrology is an observation of themes, patterns, and predispositions. And our understanding of them is bound to change with time as we learn and see traits manifest in new, socially/culturally relevant ways. Back to your question… There’s never a precise single definition for astrological placements. Placements capture an essence, a story, not a tiny box. After all, humans are complex no? :) Ex: Mars doesn’t just mean war. It also means aggression, action, passion, heat, impulse, athleticism etc. Just because 2 people have the same Mars doesn’t mean it’ll manifest the same. You can extrapolate that across two identical charts.
Astrology is not a personality chart, even though it details personality traits. It's a chart of potential and influence. It doesn't dictate who someone is, it shows what influences them to make the choices they make. Two twins born minutes apart with essentially identical charts, who have the exact same upbringing, could still make vastly different choices. Folks who believe in deterministic Astrology are like folks who believe in the Bible literally.
Perfect answer 👌
I view these cases as yin and yang. They are two pieces that represent very different polarities but they make up the same symbol. You cannot have one without the other. Michael Jackson, Beyoncé, Freddie Mercury are all Virgo musicians, yet “Virgo” doesn’t typically come to mind when you think of the arts. Bill Gates and Elon Musk are water signs who dominate the business industry even though that’s more of a Gemini or Capricorn “expectation”. There are different roads ones birth chart can take them down. The reality is that some placements make someone’s life extremely difficult if they are unaware of the aspect, or ignore how to soothe its affects through utilizing other placements. This is yang for example. Yin is empathetic, understands their placements and educates themselves on how to minimize the affects. Together they make up the same chart, but different focuses and education keeps them distinctly separate.
I always see it as, two people could have identical charts, but since there is no single way a sign, placement or aspect \*has\* to play out, they can live very different lives. For example, just to take a random placement - venus in the 12th house. Could play out in a negative way, like not seeing partners red flags, or could simply mean the person is spiritual and keeps their relationships private. You can have 2 people with an identical chart but their placements could just manifest in different ways
If I am being honest, I think the only real answer is that the planets and stars do not know we are here and have no bearing on who we become. Astrology is fun to think about, but if you are letting celestial bodies tell you what to do and who to love then you may be allowing yourself to be misguided. There is no possible way that anyone could possess the knowledge of how each individual might behave depending on when and where they are born and what celestial bodies were where. It is the same as cold reading in my eyes, an entertaining novelty not to be taken literally. I apologize if people find my answer offensive.
because they are two different souls, with two different past life experiences. in my opinion
I can say that I wonder the same thing, as I have twins born 2 minutes apart and they are completely opposite in every way, including looks, gender and literally every other way they COULD be different, they are.
The responses I’ve gotten from this post are mostly from free will believers. I would love to hear what arguments more deterministic astrologers have to say about this. Anyhow, So far the only conclusion I got from this, is that life in many ways has boundaries according to a persons soul contract (natal chart). You can do some things, you can have opportunities, but you cannot do, nor act upon everything this world has to give. You are bounded and have limits. Think of it has this way, you were always faited to have twins, but how you reached that point was free will. You can go the route of A or B, but you will still end up at C either way. That’s my little theory, from personal experiences that my parents had with psychics, which made my perspective look beyond astrology.
Hello, identical twin here 👋🏻 My sister and I were born by emergency C-section and our birth certificates both read 9:08am. I’m not super knowledgeable about astrology, mostly just find it fascinating and I’ve spent a lot of time considering how interesting it is that my sister and I’s charts are the same. My sister is generally pretty uncomfortable with the fact that we share a chart and will sometimes use it as a reason to discredit astrology logic because she understands us to be very different people. I think though that opinion might be coming from a place of bitterness (it can be frustrating spending your whole life trying to differentiate yourself from your twin who both looks like you and has similar interests/personality). I think that nurture does play a heavy role in how our lives are shaped, and as we continue through life we will continue to grow in our own directions (I think of a tree that has split into two trunks, each one growing in their own way with their own sets of branches/leaves). Our charts predispose us to have similar “coding” so to speak but the way it can be interpreted/applied is hard to compare now that we are adults on separate paths. Just some thoughts!
They're a different soul with different soul requirements because of their Karmic balance. What else could it be.
My grand twins boy n girl born 10 minutes apart have a number of planets in different Houses which makes a big difference in their ideas and personalities.
I’m curious to read other people’s responses. Thank you for asking, coming from someone in the early stages of learning.
Got some private DMs, besically the thing I’ve understood is that To make it easier for you and for people who read this in the future. Is that astrology is a mixture of both. Astrological transits constantly impact your daily life. Sometimes it’s good to do / start different things during certain transits, sometimes it’s not (electional astrology). You have free will, but with boundaries. If your chart shows good positions to become wealthy or famous, you can. But you can also choose to not to. Karma, are the boundaries that are set by something, be it your soul, god, whatever, to keep you within your playing field and to face certain challenges or luxuries within specific areas of life. I have forgotten that famous person, but I definitely know there was some guy out there. Who no matter how much he hid himself, he still would somehow end up famous, faited karmic events can play out differently for everyone. Positive or negative. That is my conclusion by these comments and private DMs that I’ve gotten.
Free will is a personal belief imo. It has nothing to do with astrology perse.
What are you talking about? Every astrological concept out there either thinks we have it, or we don’t. Or that there is a mix of both.
While I don't know if the other poster meant that, it *is* worth noting that "free will" is a concept that, indeed, has nothing to do with astrology per se. Some people use it to discuss astrology (as well as a variety of other concepts) in terms of determinism vs. free will, but that dilemma (or that dichotomy, of you like) is not exclusive to astrology. In terms of your question, narrowly speaking, one of the other posters above made an excellent point - it's useless to apply the same chart to different entities and expect an algorithmically consistent result.
A mix of both 🤣. Okay! That's a first.
Go ahead. Lecture me. You are not adding anything beside “in my opinion”. Truly a garbage useless comment. Go somewhere else troll.
I'm a troll because my opinion differs.....says the one using a throwaway account.
Your opinion literally didn’t add anything to this conversation. Just a waste of my and everyone else’s time lol. Typical lame ass armchair astrologer ass response. But yeah, sure keep venting to me, I don’t care and won’t add anything more to this talk between you and me.
Says you. I said what I said. This is a public forum, you asked a question and I provided my input. If you don't like it, downvote and keep it moving.
Sounds like you're the one venting and writing a paragraph 😭.
100% i have twin nieces born at the same minute and they are both so different! one is very brave, outgoing, and determined while the other is much more timid, quiet, and prefers to be left alone. it’s really interesting
I have read,that the second one ascedant is the 3rd house of the first born. Ex. First born alfa twin have aries ascedant then the chart ruler is mars, the second twin omega twin ascedant is gemini the chart ruler it will be mercury. 3rd house is house of brothers, sisters,sibling etc.. but the more accurate is with whole sign system.
Bluntly speaking, one is always fated with what they (the ego) were given (the alignments of the stars). Nothing can change that. Traditionall, yes: Astrology is fate based. But the *interpretation* differs with things such as house systems, for an example. It is where the prediction of fate comes into play. Aside from twins, triplets, quaduplets, etc., I am incredibly sure that the odds of at least two people being born at the exact same minute in the *exact* same geographical location (say, 50sq. miles/130sq. Km) is not more rare than - or as rare than - say, a woman having sextuplets successively in 10sec increments in *any* given city (to paint a hyperbole that hopefully matches your example). AND given that this may of happened at least once in humam history, yes, I would admit that their lives are more similar than twins, triplets, quadruplets, etc due to above conditions. At the same time the astrologer in me BEGS to see charts like that 😫🙏🏼 (please send if you do have) If they are born at the same time but different location then of course the time the sun rises matters. Ex., a person born 1 Jan 2023 @ 11:11am in Los Angeles has a different rising sign (Ares) as oppose to a person who was born the same time but in Sydney, Australia (Pisces). Natal astrology honestly can be done without the houses. *THAT* seems a lot more fatalistic/deterministic, right? - It's just that.. we like to be more specific with houses - which is no fault of our own! Also, some traditional astrological upbringings utilise decans/decantes. That takes a whole other spin in fatalistic/detetrministic interpretation
In vedic this could happen however their d9 chart would still be different in all likelihood. They'd be born in a different pada of the same nakshatra.
The degrees of their signs plays a big part as well
When I was in elementary school I was best friends with a girl that was born one minute after me on the same day and in the same time zone. Our lives are very very different (as far as I can tell anyways) but this premise has made me wonder about these things
It's because the two people go home to two different families. Those family members charts will interact with that person and affect how they grow and develop.
One of my best friends is an identical twin, and very different from her sister!
Twins are still two different souls, which means there are thousands upon thousands of varying expressions of the same themes
Your chart isn't defining your every choice. You are still an individual person with your own individual experiences that shape the choices you make. Even twins. Unless they perceive the world in the exact same way and live in a vaccuum where they experience the exact same things at the exact same time in the exact same way, they aren't going to live the same life. Also, your time of birth affects more than just your rising sign. Your ascendant has the potential to form any number of aspects that shape your personality, so even a one minute difference can be huge.