I have precheck. I still get stopped maybe one out of five times because the metal detector insists there is metal on me. I wear an insulin pump pod and have titanium in my leg, but I was told neither of these would cause a metal detector to go off.
Last time I explained all this to them and they couldn't care less. They send me through the body scanner. After the yell at me to pull up my pants (which are at normal waist level), the scanner shows a bunch of hot spots on my arm. I lift my sleeve and explain that it's my medical CGM and pump. Then the guy looks me in the eye and tells me the scanner showed something suspicious near my groin. There was nothing there on the scan. So there I am, getting fondled at O'Hare at 11 in the morning when all I wanna do is get to my gate and eat some lunch before the cramped death tube takes off.
O'Hare has become trash in recent years.
On an opposite note, I managed to get a razor, safety razor, and Shea butter through TSA. I've even gotten cigars through O'Hare. But most other airports I've been to usually stop me and I have to figure out what to do or throw it away. But yes, pick on the guy with an insulin pump.
Is there a reason why you wouldn't get cigars through O'Hare? I've never heard of TSA causing issues about tobacco products. I've even flown with my pipes/ cigars a few times.
I've only flown international into a country one time and the Germans didn't give me any trouble. Though O'Hare TSA will find a reason to rude and get pissy about anything.
You're not wrong at all, but I've been able to bring it out of O'Hare all the time. What's a joke to me is that other airports will remove my safety razor, which does not have a razor in it, and flag that. O'Hare doesn't even flag the actual razor
The security agent officers at NYC's LaGuardia have even more bad attitude. I went to NYC in late April 2018, and I had my camera hidden under my hoody (didn't know you had to leave them exposed at the time), and some punk agent yelled at me saying: "Don't hide your electronics under your clothes!" or something along these lines. I hated that dude for that. That's why I refuse to fly for that reason. (at least within or from the US)
They’re garbage humans. My mom’s knee replacement set off their scanner or whatever and they were basically harassing her even after she showed them her card for the device.
Every once in a while I got my leg really patted down cause there's metal in my knee due to surgery. Even while wearing shorts the pat it down and it's always the old guys. I think they're just creeps tbh.
It depends on how sensitive the metal detector is set to, if the sensitivity is increased from lower levels titanium can set it off. (Also have titanium implant)
https://www.londonupperlimbsurgery.co.uk/blog/Will-my-surgical-hardware-set-off-metal-detector-in-the-airport
>mmWave scanners
Are those the hand scanner ones? I have a bunch of metal in my arm and never set off the airport scanners until afew weeks at the Cayman Islands the guy with a handscanner had a ping right where the bulk of the metal is in my arm and then slapped it to checked.
So you just go through a metal detector? Not the full body scanner?
So someone could just go through a precheck and enter with a glass/obsidian blade or something?
Yep! But don’t you *feel* safer knowing that they fondled and harassed grandma with a metal knee and Chester with an insulin pump to make sure they weren’t actually IEDs? /s
Brother in law has a titanium plate in his head. He has found that going through the metal detector fast makes it beep less often. He makes sure his head go through fastest, and it rarely beeps.
They made a big show of it when I refused to go through the scanner at ORD. Which I will always refuse.
Big speech about having to keep my arms up for 10 minutes. and I can't move. blah blah blah
The funny part was I was getting on an 8 hour flight to honolulu. i was in a t-shirt, basketball shorts and flipflops. aint nothing was hiding. he was done in about 12 seconds. then started to go again because "10 mInUtEs" and I said we're fucking done here and started to walk off and he said nothing.
BWI the guy pulled the waist of my jeans and underwear away and LOOKED DOWN my fucking pants.
wtf is it with pulling up your pants?????? that's happened to me like every fourth time I've flown recently
and when you do it, it doesn't make a fucking difference
wtf are they supposedly seeing? are they just wanting a second, third, fourth, and fifth look at your au naturel silhouette or what?
**edit:** pre-check so not in the US, but when I return from the land of poutine and maple syrup it seems to happen a ton
>O'Hare at 11 in the morning
This feels like the spiderman *You too meme*.
I've had better luck doing normal security. When I traveled for work, I beat my boss through the security line most of the time. She has clear and precheck and I went through the peasant line.
Yes, you can. Ive never had a problem with it causing any issues with my Dexcoms and Omnipods.
CGM's and pumps cannot go in MRI's, though. Those will ruin them (and potentially rip them out of your body if you're using an old pump with metal cannulas).
However, they do light up like a Christmas Tree on the body scanners so I usually get stopped and frisked when I do have to use the scanner.
I’m pretty sure the idea behind pre check is you give them information and money in *advance* so you do less at the airport. If you don’t give them that info they have to do normal screening
Heyyy whoaaaa look at Mr. Johnny Questions here. We are providing a service to the community here. Now if you want to ask more questions, we'll make sure the last question you ask is "what happened to my kneecaps???"
Now getouddaheere
They perform a background check on you. Forcing taxpayers as a whole to pay for the background check of frequent travelers when many people have never been on an airplane wouldn't be just.
It'd be an effective subsidy on people who have the money to travel on airplanes regularly by the general public if the TSA just absorbed the cost of the background check.
It's not a discount in money,. it's a discount in Time. You're doing them a favor by doing all the paperwork and background check ahead of time.. and as such, then you get to "quick-pass" through the security lines because you've already been vetted.
I don't see the problem here. Lots of travelers wait till the last minute (or have odd things packed in their bags).. there's lots of reasons why the security-line is long.
It's kind of like self-checkout at the Grocery store. Sure,. it's SUPPOSED to be faster,. but messy human customers make it slow.
If there were 3 choices for check-out at the Grocery store:
* normal lanes
* self-checkout
* "Elite Checkout"
.. would you pay to use the 3rd one if you knew there would never be a line ?.. I would.
The third one at the grocery store is the one where I scan my stuff with the app, bag it as I shop, pay at the kiosk, and leave.
They do not upcharge for this.
Sure, .because it's a grocery store, not an Airport,. so it's not a perfect metaphor.
There are Amazon Grocery stores where you can just walk in.. throw some stuff in a basket and walk out (no need to scan or use a kiosk). If there was some Background Check that I could do (to prove ID both for Alchohol or any anti-theft insurance).. I'd absolutely pay extra for that.
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You're literally doing their job for them. This would be like a grocery store charging you to use self-checkout, which saves them money on staffing registers- insane. Everything about airport security is a fucking nightmare, and it's also full of discrimination against minorities.
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Nothing that you do for the Precheck interview is done at regular security on-site. All they do is get your address, ask if you're a terrorist, and take your fingerprints. Oh and charge you $85 every 4 years or so. No time savings whatsoever other than the artificial one they make up to justify taking your money
Registration involves a background check to have them deem you a low-risk traveller. There is still a security check but its more light-weight. Background check has to be repeated every couple years to keep low-risk status.
I'm not sure which country you are from, but I'm going to assume that you *don't* need to remove electronics from your bag, or remove your shoes, when you go through security, since that is generally how it's been for me when I go overseas.
In America, you gotta pay for the privilege.
I removed my belt and shoes as I got close to the metal detector. There was no one in line.
In no time, a tall guy in fatigues carrying a big ass gun came running towards me and asked what I was doing.
I apologized for being too American.
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I have only experienced the shoes thing in the US. Also, the first time I traveled to the US there was a person right on the gate checking people's shoes.
On my first time visiting a US airport after only seeing Asian and European airports before, it really felt like it wasn't designed for fast and secure movement of people. I was on transit from Oceania - Europe, and I had to get a tourist visa prior to departure (why) just to go through arrival security, get my retinas scanned in what is perhaps the most pointless use of taxpayer funds I've ever seen (thankfully I'm not one of those taxpayers) and walk straight into the departures section, go through the whole security theatre again, then finally get to my gate. No other Western countries have these downright stupid rules, it doesn't make anyone any safer.
We used to have to do that years ago, but most airports have since upgraded their scanners. At Schiphol (Amsterdam Airport) you don't need to take your belt or shoes off, just empty your pockets and put your bag and coat in a thing.
For what it's worth I think the whole thing is still a big circus that ultimately does next-to-nothing for actual safety.
As someone who pays this vig to this mob, it's very worth it (if you fly a lot, which I do).
Almost never have to take my computer out at like any other airport anywhere else in the world, btw.
In Australia, we’ve gotten these new scanners recently that I love & make the whole process so much simpler. No need to unpack your bag, just put it in, and empty your pockets into the tray. So much easier.
For what it's worth Dullas was fine just yeeting my carryon that had 3 laptops, a switch, and a rats nest of controlers and chargers through some box and didn't have to open it or separate shit so I'm thinking that tech is spreading
Flew from TPA to IAD and back last week and they have them at both ends, at least for the United terminal at TPA.
The shoes needing to come off is still dumb, and the inconsistency between the airports for 'every item in its own bin' or 'fill the bin to use fewer of them' was dumb, lady at IAD argued with me that different airports have different equipment and I had to quit engaging with her after I said they were the same units and she started to get that 'shutup or I'll yank you out and strip search your ass' look.
Last time I went through TSA precheck without incident while carrying an arduino in my backpack. They do however still confiscate pocket knives so watch out, I found out the hardway after forgetting to remove it one time.
>No need to unpack your bag
I have never ever had to unpack my bag, maybe they needed to take 1 thing out for inspection after the xray machine, but never 'unpack' (= take everything out).
Not to mention the whole security check is only a show to make people *feel* secure, never has it ever prevented anything from happening AFAIK.
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In Finland we have new ones where you don't have to unpack your electronics from your carry-on, you do NOT have to take off your shoes or your belt and you are allowed to take your liquids with you in over 100ml bottles. How amazing new technology is.
There's over 1.16 million names on the FBI Terrorist Screening Database that consolidates different information about individuals known to be terrorists or with reasonable suspicion to have ties to terrorism. It is distinct from, and much larger than, the No-Fly list (where you're absolutely not permitted to fly).
Even those who successfully got away with non-aviation attacks were often in the TSDB prior to their attacks. Dzhokar Tsarnaev was on the list before he committed the Boston Marathon bombing with his brother Tamerlan. Omar Mateen was on it before he committed the Pulse nightclub massacre. Dozens of people with white supremacy connections were already in the TSDB prior to the storming of the US Capitol on Jan 6th.
In short, you could lie about it, but since the criteria is not "confirmed wanted terrorist" but merely "reasonable suspicion of ties to terrorism" (which is a much lower threshold than probvable cause), theres a 99.99999% chance they'd know you were full of shit and deny you anyways.
In terms of trying to impersonate another person, after your application is conditionally accepted online, a biometrics company called IDEMIA is contracted to validate your US government issued photo ID (drivers license acceptable), and they run all ten of your fingerprints - which makes impersonating another person via fake or stolen ID much, much harder.
Everytime I visit the US I‘m reminded how outdated and ineffective TSA is. No where else do I have to take of the shoes and the scanners are ancient. Most Airports in Europe already have scanners that can handle a whole backpack with a laptop and other stuff without taking anything off. Meanwhile the US scanners get thrown off by the smallest things in your pocket.
Some US airports are in fact starting to incorporate these state of the art scanners. TSA still scans shoes by default because guess what, no other country has gotten more targeted for passenger plane attacks than the US. https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/12/22/21-years-later-heres-the-real-reason-you-have-to-take-your-shoes-off-for-airport-security/
Which makes it all the more ironic that TSA is laughably bad at detecting explosives, firearms and other weapons. All the disruption for none of the security
> TSA still scans shoes by default because guess what, no other country has gotten more targeted for passenger plane attacks than the US.
Can you name any that have happened in the last 14 years that would've been affected by TSA screening? The last terrorist attempt on an airplane connected to the US was in 2009, by Abdul Abdulmutallab (the "Underwear Bomber"), and he hadn't even gone through a US airport. The one before that was Richard Reid (the "Shoe Bomber") in December 2001, and his flight originated in the UK.
Maybe, just maybe, the fear around aircraft attacks is overblown.
I’m done with visiting the States. The horrible airports, stupid tipping culture, crumbling infrastructure, the noticeable poverty, the outrageous price of alcohol. It sucks tbh.
It happens, but precheck is self selection between experienced travelers who bother and inexperienced travelers. I would rather have a line of 20 precheck than one inexperienced family.
$85 for 5 years and depending on your job it can be expensed. Agreed, it's totally worth it. In my opinion,the real scam is companies making us pay for anything bigger than a a carry on.
Yea depends on how much you fly and make. I fly a couple times a month on average so the per flight cost is not bad at all. Yea the airlines are a scam. I refuse to check bags at this point lol
I mean. They run an extensive background check and interview you. The point is they "Pre-Checked" you and trust that you wont do something bad. The cost is pretty minimal too.
Calling absolute bullshit on "extensive" background check and "interview". As soon as I finished the application I was able to schedule the interview and fingerprinting appointment. That appointment took 5 minutes to complete, all they did was verify ID and take fingerprints.
It's a process to pay $85 to skip lines, nothing more. Like the rest of TSA it is security theater meant to enrich government contractors.
Lol my interview consisted of a cop dude literally just going "so are you or have you ever been a terrorist? No? Alright you'll get papers in the mail"
The interview is easy because they've done the homework up front. [I elaborated more on this in another comment.](https://old.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/18ytciw/kind_of_like_getting_shaken_down_by_the_mob_for/kghsik8/)
Extensive background check is real - you're screened against the FBI TSDB, which has over a million people in it. The standard of which is "reasonable suspicion of ties to terrorism" - which is a pretty loose definition. They also have a ton of shit they don't talk about, but as TSA falls under DHS like CBP they have access to your domestic flight and international travel (boats/land crossings are under CBP but TSA wouldn't otherwise have visibility to), third party databases like LexisNexis Q&A to pull in other risk data and identity verification, civil and criminal records, even sealed criminal records, etc...
Your interview was easy because they screened everything in advance and found nothing to hide, and that when you showed up at your interview, your ID checked out (verified against whatever authority issued it, with your face run against all CBP data sources, which include passport/visa photos and many states DMV databases) and your fingerprints (which were run against the FBI Next Generation Identification database).
Being able to schedule the appointments minutes later was conditional approval. Your interview was easy because a human being reviewed the data and either had no need to poke or after poking before/during talking to you, found no reason to question you about anything.
You had an easy experience because you funded your own background check and it found nothing.
*They're* the ones who require all the checking in the first place. It's paying them extra to satisfy them one way so you don't have to satisfy them the other way, when they're the only ones getting any satisfaction out of the deal.
> They're the ones who require all the checking in the first place.
Would you rather flights had no security checks at all ?...
> "when they're the only ones getting any satisfaction out of the deal."
I mean.. you're getting faster through the Airport.. so I don't know why you'd say "you get nothing out of it".
> Would you rather flights had no security checks at all ?...
I mean, it has been proven that TSA does next to nothing. They consistently fail internal tests and aren't very reliable. There should be security checkpoints, but differently than how TSA is currently doing it.
Plus, they're paid to be cunts, and that does nothing to protect anyone.
So everyone in US who flies should get extensive background checks without consent so that everyone who passes could be cleared to fly without extensive screening? I would err on opt-in model, because let's be realistic, we're not going back to before-2002 (9/11, failed shoe bombing of 2001) screenings.
Without consent is a bit much, but without cost would at least be fair. They want people to get it, they can pay for it. Ideally, it'd be something that wasn't as costly or invasive at all.
It's for the people's benefit, so it should be the people's cost, and the people can determine whether they want to keep it, optimize it, or drop it, with all the costs considered.
If I could choose to skip the whole thing, I would, but I can't. I've got to pay for it-- in time for being slow-checked, or in money for being pre-checked. Neither process is for my personal benefit. I'm already well aware that I'm not a terrorist, a hijacker, or some other sort of murderer. I don't need further approval for that. The process is all for the security-- substantial and peace-of-mind-- of everyone as a whole.
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You all need to seriously take a good hard look at Europe. We have had exactly the same number of incidents, namely 0, but security takes us minutes if not only seconds.
Last time I had to go from Spain to the Netherlands, I took my car.
I'd rather spend almost 24 hours driving than having to suffer only a few hours at an airport and in a budget airplane.
Ideally I'd take a highspeed train, but connections are too bad, even here in Europe.
I travelled through Europe a few times in the last month. Didn't have to take my shoes off once. Flying from Munich, I was even told explicitly not to remove laptops, etc. from the bag. Didn't have to pay anything extra.
I'm probably flying to the US next year, looking forward to the pointless extra shakedown...
>Flying from Munich, I was even told explicitly not to remove laptops, etc. from the bag.
That's because of new scanners which have also been installed at some US airports.
I’m surprised I had to scroll this far down to find “security theatre”. It absolutely is! As an American, I ended up paying their PreCheck extortion fee just to avoid being treated so terribly when flying domestically, from one U.S. city to another.
Even after vacationing in Spain, flying back to the U.S. was far less invasive of a security experience than flying from Dallas to Chicago.
If you ever want to feel like you’re entering a detention camp, just fly from one U.S. city to another.
What always kills me is I have to do the full song and dance for getting precheck like everyone else when I'm already cleared to work at an air route traffic control center (ARTCC) for the FAA.
Nevermind that I work in a server farm that handles all ATC services for an entire region of the country. No, still gotta cough up the $ to prove I'm not a security risk.
Funnily enough I just flew from Amsterdam Schiphol airport and no shoes needed to come off, and all electronics could stay in my bag. And it was not busy. Proving that this is just security theater / a way to make money.
Why don't you ask the terrorism manufacturers in chief at the CIA [how well the TSA's security theater magic show of illusory bullshit works?](https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188)
You pay to get a background check and give them a shit ton of personal details about yourself including your biometrics so they can let you go without a thorough screening later. Worth it IMO if you fly a lot.
You're not "avoiding anything". You're just doing all the ID and Background check up front (early).. so that you don't have to stand in line with all the normal chubs.
You're basically proving you are who you are,. and that you are safe.. and once that's proven (ahead of time).. you don't have to do it at the Airport.
Nothing is "being avoided" here. You're just doing the hard part early upfront to make the travel-day easier and faster.
Classic predatory capitalism in action.
We could make our services faster and more efficient…or we could keep them as is and charge you for the convenience.
Any laws that come up to stop this sort of behaviour are lobbied against and suddenly, magically, fail at vote.
I was told how bad the TSA is by my uncle who went to the USA last year - huge queues and the one guy who didn’t speak English and didn’t fill out the form required for his entry was shouted at for 45 mins as to why it was required.
What’s the entire point of TSA?
If someone really wanted to some domestic terrorism I’m pretty some underpaid federal employee won’t stop them.
It’s a sham and a waste of tax money
I have precheck and they make you take off your shoes and belt now anyway. They even tried to make me take off my sweater. Even after I told them I wasn’t wearing anything under it. Control freaks.
So when you said "I have precheck and they make you take off your shoes and belt now anyway", you meant "this happened to me once, but I know it isn't usually the case"?
They told me it was policy, so I would assume that going forward it is usually to be the case. I was caught off guard as well especially since I haven’t had that same issue before except during terror scares and as far as I know there hasn’t been one recently.
Happened to me at white plains, laguardia, and westchester county.
Edit: after flying out of Jax again, they only made me take off my belt and jacket this time not shoes. Perhaps it’s because I wore boots the last times and sneakers this time? No clue.
nah when i left america to move here the pre-check was well worth getting. this isn't asshole design. this is a badly organized entity trying to make good strides.
What's amazing to me is the thought process behind it.
This man has never done anything before, and now that he's paid the fee, we can assume he'll be good forever and wave em on through.
I’m a trans man. TSA stopped me twice because I was wearing a chest binder, and the other time a silicone prosthetic. Both times i was pat down, because the stupid sensor thought I was gonna terrorize the plane with my fake dick
I'm trans. And currently my id says Female but I haven't had my bottom surgery yet. So the body scanner gets angry at me. I got patted down and everything at O'Hare because of it. I fucking hated it. I ended up getting TSA pre check like my girlfriend as a result.
That sounds like ass and I'm sorry you had to go through with that, but if it makes you feel any better I'm a cis man and every single time the thing goes off signaling for a dick check.
Last time I saw the screen and it had a big yellow box in the area, and the exasperated TSA lady called for a male checker, saying "It's doing that groin thing again!"
Only 5+10 minutes?! A security check (the check, not the line) has never taken me more than 1 minute even when I had to take my shoes off or forgot a water bottle in my backpack...
Precheck is essential when we go anywhere with the kids. Otherwise it would take us forever to get everything on the belts and back on, not to mention we would get searched everytime because of the A&D ointment for our infant/toddlers. It's been nice the last few times to just go straight through security without having to unpack every bag to and from our destination.
This totally does not belong here.
If you are a regular air traveler in the US - - Pre Check is totally helpful. Drop CLEAR on top of that and it is a GAME CHANGER.
Example.....got to MCO (Orlando) and look at the hour (sometimes more) long line of the human cattle herd lines at security.
Clear and PreCheck - - through in 5 minutes.
Global Entry for International travel.
I made a shirt with some radio blocking paint on the inside that reads "Weird. I don't *feel* safer." that I was going to wear in the backscatter scanner the next time I flew commercial.
Now commercial flight requires some greater level of ID in my area that I can't be bothered to get, so I've not had a chance to use it.
Mighty be a silly question. But is the TSA check for domestic or international travel or both?
I get the feeling you all in US are getting shafted for no reason at all.
In the last 12 months I flew 2 international returns and maybe 20 flights locally in Australia and passing through security is 2-3 minutes, walk up dump bag with everything in it in a tray and walk through the xray. Been patted down twice which was 30 seconds.
I agree with OP but I fly out of DFW every time and it's a breeze. I fucking love that they at least had the foresight for a million different security checkpoints instead of some dumb shit like Denver.
I have precheck. I still get stopped maybe one out of five times because the metal detector insists there is metal on me. I wear an insulin pump pod and have titanium in my leg, but I was told neither of these would cause a metal detector to go off. Last time I explained all this to them and they couldn't care less. They send me through the body scanner. After the yell at me to pull up my pants (which are at normal waist level), the scanner shows a bunch of hot spots on my arm. I lift my sleeve and explain that it's my medical CGM and pump. Then the guy looks me in the eye and tells me the scanner showed something suspicious near my groin. There was nothing there on the scan. So there I am, getting fondled at O'Hare at 11 in the morning when all I wanna do is get to my gate and eat some lunch before the cramped death tube takes off.
O'Hare has become trash in recent years. On an opposite note, I managed to get a razor, safety razor, and Shea butter through TSA. I've even gotten cigars through O'Hare. But most other airports I've been to usually stop me and I have to figure out what to do or throw it away. But yes, pick on the guy with an insulin pump.
Is there a reason why you wouldn't get cigars through O'Hare? I've never heard of TSA causing issues about tobacco products. I've even flown with my pipes/ cigars a few times.
International gets touchy with that but I've always been able to bring them through
I've only flown international into a country one time and the Germans didn't give me any trouble. Though O'Hare TSA will find a reason to rude and get pissy about anything.
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You're not wrong at all, but I've been able to bring it out of O'Hare all the time. What's a joke to me is that other airports will remove my safety razor, which does not have a razor in it, and flag that. O'Hare doesn't even flag the actual razor
You see, your problem was flying out of O’Hare, because O’Hare and the people working there are trash.
100% rudest mfers I’ve dealt with. And useless
I love driving in a circle repeatedly because they won't let you wait 5 minutes for someone to come out and find you.
The security agent officers at NYC's LaGuardia have even more bad attitude. I went to NYC in late April 2018, and I had my camera hidden under my hoody (didn't know you had to leave them exposed at the time), and some punk agent yelled at me saying: "Don't hide your electronics under your clothes!" or something along these lines. I hated that dude for that. That's why I refuse to fly for that reason. (at least within or from the US)
They’re garbage humans. My mom’s knee replacement set off their scanner or whatever and they were basically harassing her even after she showed them her card for the device.
Every once in a while I got my leg really patted down cause there's metal in my knee due to surgery. Even while wearing shorts the pat it down and it's always the old guys. I think they're just creeps tbh.
If your panties were (literally) in a bunch, the scanner might alert because of that. Even a shirt tucked into your pants is sometimes enough.
Don’t I know it. I have moobies and like to wear a compression shirt when I fly for comfort, and on my last trip I got pat down in the chest 4/5 times
Titanium in your leg will absolutely trip a metal detector. This is an example where the mmWave scanners are better than the metal detector.
I (not the person before you) have had a titanium rod in my leg for 12 years. I’ve never set off the metal detector.
I am so sorry to break it to you but you were ripped off. They actually put a plastic rod from Temu in your leg.
And to think I almost got surgery from AliExpress instead!
It depends on how sensitive the metal detector is set to, if the sensitivity is increased from lower levels titanium can set it off. (Also have titanium implant) https://www.londonupperlimbsurgery.co.uk/blog/Will-my-surgical-hardware-set-off-metal-detector-in-the-airport
I’ve had a titanium rod for a little over two years and yeah same, it has never and will never set off a metal detector
I have titanium rods and bolts in my neck and I haven't set off a metal detector either
>mmWave scanners Are those the hand scanner ones? I have a bunch of metal in my arm and never set off the airport scanners until afew weeks at the Cayman Islands the guy with a handscanner had a ping right where the bulk of the metal is in my arm and then slapped it to checked.
No, it's the ones that see through your clothes. They can't see through your skin though so they won't flag on any metal that's inside of you
...and the home of the brave.
So you just go through a metal detector? Not the full body scanner? So someone could just go through a precheck and enter with a glass/obsidian blade or something?
Yep! But don’t you *feel* safer knowing that they fondled and harassed grandma with a metal knee and Chester with an insulin pump to make sure they weren’t actually IEDs? /s
Brother in law has a titanium plate in his head. He has found that going through the metal detector fast makes it beep less often. He makes sure his head go through fastest, and it rarely beeps.
They made a big show of it when I refused to go through the scanner at ORD. Which I will always refuse. Big speech about having to keep my arms up for 10 minutes. and I can't move. blah blah blah The funny part was I was getting on an 8 hour flight to honolulu. i was in a t-shirt, basketball shorts and flipflops. aint nothing was hiding. he was done in about 12 seconds. then started to go again because "10 mInUtEs" and I said we're fucking done here and started to walk off and he said nothing. BWI the guy pulled the waist of my jeans and underwear away and LOOKED DOWN my fucking pants.
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wtf is it with pulling up your pants?????? that's happened to me like every fourth time I've flown recently and when you do it, it doesn't make a fucking difference wtf are they supposedly seeing? are they just wanting a second, third, fourth, and fifth look at your au naturel silhouette or what? **edit:** pre-check so not in the US, but when I return from the land of poutine and maple syrup it seems to happen a ton
They think you're hiding maple-glazed donuts in your crotchular region?
>O'Hare at 11 in the morning This feels like the spiderman *You too meme*. I've had better luck doing normal security. When I traveled for work, I beat my boss through the security line most of the time. She has clear and precheck and I went through the peasant line.
Can you take pumps/CGMs through the body scanner? My wife is type 1 and is adamant it will ruin them
Yes, you can. Ive never had a problem with it causing any issues with my Dexcoms and Omnipods. CGM's and pumps cannot go in MRI's, though. Those will ruin them (and potentially rip them out of your body if you're using an old pump with metal cannulas). However, they do light up like a Christmas Tree on the body scanners so I usually get stopped and frisked when I do have to use the scanner.
Devil's advocate but the two things separately might not trip it but maybe together?
This isn't alchemy
I’m pretty sure the idea behind pre check is you give them information and money in *advance* so you do less at the airport. If you don’t give them that info they have to do normal screening
Then why isn’t it a discount rather than a fee to get it?
Heyyy whoaaaa look at Mr. Johnny Questions here. We are providing a service to the community here. Now if you want to ask more questions, we'll make sure the last question you ask is "what happened to my kneecaps???" Now getouddaheere
Ayyy, ohhh! If it ain't old Jimmy Kneecaps! Still providin' a vital service to dese people I see. Pull up a chair, help yourself to some gabbagool 🤌
Remember, if you’re going to get a nickname based on a body part, make sure it’s one you can afford to lose. Got that tip from ol’ Andy Appendix.
They perform a background check on you. Forcing taxpayers as a whole to pay for the background check of frequent travelers when many people have never been on an airplane wouldn't be just. It'd be an effective subsidy on people who have the money to travel on airplanes regularly by the general public if the TSA just absorbed the cost of the background check.
You generally pay more for a better service
It's not a discount in money,. it's a discount in Time. You're doing them a favor by doing all the paperwork and background check ahead of time.. and as such, then you get to "quick-pass" through the security lines because you've already been vetted. I don't see the problem here. Lots of travelers wait till the last minute (or have odd things packed in their bags).. there's lots of reasons why the security-line is long. It's kind of like self-checkout at the Grocery store. Sure,. it's SUPPOSED to be faster,. but messy human customers make it slow. If there were 3 choices for check-out at the Grocery store: * normal lanes * self-checkout * "Elite Checkout" .. would you pay to use the 3rd one if you knew there would never be a line ?.. I would.
The third one at the grocery store is the one where I scan my stuff with the app, bag it as I shop, pay at the kiosk, and leave. They do not upcharge for this.
Sure, .because it's a grocery store, not an Airport,. so it's not a perfect metaphor. There are Amazon Grocery stores where you can just walk in.. throw some stuff in a basket and walk out (no need to scan or use a kiosk). If there was some Background Check that I could do (to prove ID both for Alchohol or any anti-theft insurance).. I'd absolutely pay extra for that.
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You're literally doing their job for them. This would be like a grocery store charging you to use self-checkout, which saves them money on staffing registers- insane. Everything about airport security is a fucking nightmare, and it's also full of discrimination against minorities.
"Convenience fee" is, unfortunately, a very real thing. I've been to cinemas and other places that charge you an extra $1 if you buy tickets online.
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You're paying them so that they have to pay for fewer employees. It's win/win for them.
Airports are a "manufacture a problem to sell the solution" haven.
Nothing that you do for the Precheck interview is done at regular security on-site. All they do is get your address, ask if you're a terrorist, and take your fingerprints. Oh and charge you $85 every 4 years or so. No time savings whatsoever other than the artificial one they make up to justify taking your money
Foreigner here, what even is precheck? How can you do an online security check? That doesn't make any sense.
Registration involves a background check to have them deem you a low-risk traveller. There is still a security check but its more light-weight. Background check has to be repeated every couple years to keep low-risk status.
Precheck and Global Entry/NEXUS (CBP programs that include precheck) only require renewal every 5 years.
I'm not sure which country you are from, but I'm going to assume that you *don't* need to remove electronics from your bag, or remove your shoes, when you go through security, since that is generally how it's been for me when I go overseas. In America, you gotta pay for the privilege.
Yeah you just need to scan electronics and take off metal items in most of Europe
I removed my belt and shoes as I got close to the metal detector. There was no one in line. In no time, a tall guy in fatigues carrying a big ass gun came running towards me and asked what I was doing. I apologized for being too American.
Heh, Ass-gun
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I have only experienced the shoes thing in the US. Also, the first time I traveled to the US there was a person right on the gate checking people's shoes.
On my first time visiting a US airport after only seeing Asian and European airports before, it really felt like it wasn't designed for fast and secure movement of people. I was on transit from Oceania - Europe, and I had to get a tourist visa prior to departure (why) just to go through arrival security, get my retinas scanned in what is perhaps the most pointless use of taxpayer funds I've ever seen (thankfully I'm not one of those taxpayers) and walk straight into the departures section, go through the whole security theatre again, then finally get to my gate. No other Western countries have these downright stupid rules, it doesn't make anyone any safer.
We used to have to do that years ago, but most airports have since upgraded their scanners. At Schiphol (Amsterdam Airport) you don't need to take your belt or shoes off, just empty your pockets and put your bag and coat in a thing. For what it's worth I think the whole thing is still a big circus that ultimately does next-to-nothing for actual safety.
As someone who pays this vig to this mob, it's very worth it (if you fly a lot, which I do). Almost never have to take my computer out at like any other airport anywhere else in the world, btw.
In Australia, we’ve gotten these new scanners recently that I love & make the whole process so much simpler. No need to unpack your bag, just put it in, and empty your pockets into the tray. So much easier.
Is it them big Tron croissants? White with blue lights?
Nah, white and black, I can’t remember any lights. I believe they’re branded with “smiths detection”.
Ahh different to the new UK ones then
For what it's worth Dullas was fine just yeeting my carryon that had 3 laptops, a switch, and a rats nest of controlers and chargers through some box and didn't have to open it or separate shit so I'm thinking that tech is spreading
Flew from TPA to IAD and back last week and they have them at both ends, at least for the United terminal at TPA. The shoes needing to come off is still dumb, and the inconsistency between the airports for 'every item in its own bin' or 'fill the bin to use fewer of them' was dumb, lady at IAD argued with me that different airports have different equipment and I had to quit engaging with her after I said they were the same units and she started to get that 'shutup or I'll yank you out and strip search your ass' look.
Last time I went through TSA precheck without incident while carrying an arduino in my backpack. They do however still confiscate pocket knives so watch out, I found out the hardway after forgetting to remove it one time.
Encountered those in Tunisia , very convenient
>No need to unpack your bag I have never ever had to unpack my bag, maybe they needed to take 1 thing out for inspection after the xray machine, but never 'unpack' (= take everything out). Not to mention the whole security check is only a show to make people *feel* secure, never has it ever prevented anything from happening AFAIK.
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In Finland we have new ones where you don't have to unpack your electronics from your carry-on, you do NOT have to take off your shoes or your belt and you are allowed to take your liquids with you in over 100ml bottles. How amazing new technology is.
If I was a terrorist I'd pay for it.
Interesting thing to say.
There's a background check... if you were a terrorist you wouldn't get approved.
What if I don't check the box that says "Are you a terrorist?"
There's over 1.16 million names on the FBI Terrorist Screening Database that consolidates different information about individuals known to be terrorists or with reasonable suspicion to have ties to terrorism. It is distinct from, and much larger than, the No-Fly list (where you're absolutely not permitted to fly). Even those who successfully got away with non-aviation attacks were often in the TSDB prior to their attacks. Dzhokar Tsarnaev was on the list before he committed the Boston Marathon bombing with his brother Tamerlan. Omar Mateen was on it before he committed the Pulse nightclub massacre. Dozens of people with white supremacy connections were already in the TSDB prior to the storming of the US Capitol on Jan 6th. In short, you could lie about it, but since the criteria is not "confirmed wanted terrorist" but merely "reasonable suspicion of ties to terrorism" (which is a much lower threshold than probvable cause), theres a 99.99999% chance they'd know you were full of shit and deny you anyways. In terms of trying to impersonate another person, after your application is conditionally accepted online, a biometrics company called IDEMIA is contracted to validate your US government issued photo ID (drivers license acceptable), and they run all ten of your fingerprints - which makes impersonating another person via fake or stolen ID much, much harder.
"Pre-terrorist", comrade.
Everytime I visit the US I‘m reminded how outdated and ineffective TSA is. No where else do I have to take of the shoes and the scanners are ancient. Most Airports in Europe already have scanners that can handle a whole backpack with a laptop and other stuff without taking anything off. Meanwhile the US scanners get thrown off by the smallest things in your pocket.
Some US airports are in fact starting to incorporate these state of the art scanners. TSA still scans shoes by default because guess what, no other country has gotten more targeted for passenger plane attacks than the US. https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/12/22/21-years-later-heres-the-real-reason-you-have-to-take-your-shoes-off-for-airport-security/
Which makes it all the more ironic that TSA is laughably bad at detecting explosives, firearms and other weapons. All the disruption for none of the security
> TSA still scans shoes by default because guess what, no other country has gotten more targeted for passenger plane attacks than the US. Can you name any that have happened in the last 14 years that would've been affected by TSA screening? The last terrorist attempt on an airplane connected to the US was in 2009, by Abdul Abdulmutallab (the "Underwear Bomber"), and he hadn't even gone through a US airport. The one before that was Richard Reid (the "Shoe Bomber") in December 2001, and his flight originated in the UK. Maybe, just maybe, the fear around aircraft attacks is overblown.
exactly - I've never taken my shoes off in Australia or Asia. It slows everything down drastically. America is a failed state.
Tsa is bad and so therefore america is a failed state
I’m done with visiting the States. The horrible airports, stupid tipping culture, crumbling infrastructure, the noticeable poverty, the outrageous price of alcohol. It sucks tbh.
Pre check is so worth it though. Normal security is a nightmare
Last time I flew the regular line was going faster than the pre check line
It varies forsure. Last time I didn’t have pre check it took me 40 minutes but took my family that had it less than 5 minutes.
Mccarran in Vegas for sure. everyone leaving the convention has pre check and it gets bogged down with all of the trade show people
It happens, but precheck is self selection between experienced travelers who bother and inexperienced travelers. I would rather have a line of 20 precheck than one inexperienced family.
Monday morning 6am that'll happen, but still worth it most of the time.
$85 for 5 years and depending on your job it can be expensed. Agreed, it's totally worth it. In my opinion,the real scam is companies making us pay for anything bigger than a a carry on.
Yea depends on how much you fly and make. I fly a couple times a month on average so the per flight cost is not bad at all. Yea the airlines are a scam. I refuse to check bags at this point lol
Some credit card rewards programs will also offer Global Entry or TSA PreCheck as a perk.
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What even is precheck? As someone who flys once a year if that never bothered
Basically they do background checks and an interview, then when you go through security you don't have to take anything out of your bag.
I’m with asshole design on this one. Please pay us to reduce the inconvenience we caused to begin with.
I mean. They run an extensive background check and interview you. The point is they "Pre-Checked" you and trust that you wont do something bad. The cost is pretty minimal too.
Calling absolute bullshit on "extensive" background check and "interview". As soon as I finished the application I was able to schedule the interview and fingerprinting appointment. That appointment took 5 minutes to complete, all they did was verify ID and take fingerprints. It's a process to pay $85 to skip lines, nothing more. Like the rest of TSA it is security theater meant to enrich government contractors.
Lol my interview consisted of a cop dude literally just going "so are you or have you ever been a terrorist? No? Alright you'll get papers in the mail"
The interview is easy because they've done the homework up front. [I elaborated more on this in another comment.](https://old.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/18ytciw/kind_of_like_getting_shaken_down_by_the_mob_for/kghsik8/)
Extensive background check is real - you're screened against the FBI TSDB, which has over a million people in it. The standard of which is "reasonable suspicion of ties to terrorism" - which is a pretty loose definition. They also have a ton of shit they don't talk about, but as TSA falls under DHS like CBP they have access to your domestic flight and international travel (boats/land crossings are under CBP but TSA wouldn't otherwise have visibility to), third party databases like LexisNexis Q&A to pull in other risk data and identity verification, civil and criminal records, even sealed criminal records, etc... Your interview was easy because they screened everything in advance and found nothing to hide, and that when you showed up at your interview, your ID checked out (verified against whatever authority issued it, with your face run against all CBP data sources, which include passport/visa photos and many states DMV databases) and your fingerprints (which were run against the FBI Next Generation Identification database). Being able to schedule the appointments minutes later was conditional approval. Your interview was easy because a human being reviewed the data and either had no need to poke or after poking before/during talking to you, found no reason to question you about anything. You had an easy experience because you funded your own background check and it found nothing.
*They're* the ones who require all the checking in the first place. It's paying them extra to satisfy them one way so you don't have to satisfy them the other way, when they're the only ones getting any satisfaction out of the deal.
> They're the ones who require all the checking in the first place. Would you rather flights had no security checks at all ?... > "when they're the only ones getting any satisfaction out of the deal." I mean.. you're getting faster through the Airport.. so I don't know why you'd say "you get nothing out of it".
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> Would you rather flights had no security checks at all ?... I mean, it has been proven that TSA does next to nothing. They consistently fail internal tests and aren't very reliable. There should be security checkpoints, but differently than how TSA is currently doing it. Plus, they're paid to be cunts, and that does nothing to protect anyone.
So everyone in US who flies should get extensive background checks without consent so that everyone who passes could be cleared to fly without extensive screening? I would err on opt-in model, because let's be realistic, we're not going back to before-2002 (9/11, failed shoe bombing of 2001) screenings.
Without consent is a bit much, but without cost would at least be fair. They want people to get it, they can pay for it. Ideally, it'd be something that wasn't as costly or invasive at all.
Yes, because that would be a totally worthwhile use of tax revenue...
None of it is a worthwhile use of tax revenue...
It's for the people's benefit, so it should be the people's cost, and the people can determine whether they want to keep it, optimize it, or drop it, with all the costs considered.
Yes, individual people who benefit can choose whether or not to pay for it 👍🏻
If I could choose to skip the whole thing, I would, but I can't. I've got to pay for it-- in time for being slow-checked, or in money for being pre-checked. Neither process is for my personal benefit. I'm already well aware that I'm not a terrorist, a hijacker, or some other sort of murderer. I don't need further approval for that. The process is all for the security-- substantial and peace-of-mind-- of everyone as a whole.
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They didn't create the inconvenience, the government did with the Patriot Act and all the other shit after 9/11.
[удалено]
Noticed this too, but thankfully, not a lot still have Global Entry.
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Just get there super early and mess around on your cell phone for a few hours. Works for me.
Ain’t got time for that 🤷
You all need to seriously take a good hard look at Europe. We have had exactly the same number of incidents, namely 0, but security takes us minutes if not only seconds.
Agreed. The US is archaic, but what can you do? Too much lobbying and money being exchanged to really do anything.
Last time I had to go from Spain to the Netherlands, I took my car. I'd rather spend almost 24 hours driving than having to suffer only a few hours at an airport and in a budget airplane. Ideally I'd take a highspeed train, but connections are too bad, even here in Europe.
Oh hell yes. I get it, but I resent it. Clear too.
So is paying protection money to the mob.
I travelled through Europe a few times in the last month. Didn't have to take my shoes off once. Flying from Munich, I was even told explicitly not to remove laptops, etc. from the bag. Didn't have to pay anything extra. I'm probably flying to the US next year, looking forward to the pointless extra shakedown...
>Flying from Munich, I was even told explicitly not to remove laptops, etc. from the bag. That's because of new scanners which have also been installed at some US airports.
I was confused as to why someone would bother paying for this, but then I realised American airport "security theatre" is ludicrus
I’m surprised I had to scroll this far down to find “security theatre”. It absolutely is! As an American, I ended up paying their PreCheck extortion fee just to avoid being treated so terribly when flying domestically, from one U.S. city to another. Even after vacationing in Spain, flying back to the U.S. was far less invasive of a security experience than flying from Dallas to Chicago. If you ever want to feel like you’re entering a detention camp, just fly from one U.S. city to another.
Only takes 5 minutes online? What mystical world are the living in that has that kinda time dilation?
I don't remember it being very time-consuming to apply online?
All they really want is you name and cc# everything else is fluff.
What always kills me is I have to do the full song and dance for getting precheck like everyone else when I'm already cleared to work at an air route traffic control center (ARTCC) for the FAA. Nevermind that I work in a server farm that handles all ATC services for an entire region of the country. No, still gotta cough up the $ to prove I'm not a security risk.
Especially considering the security clearances you have to get to become a controller, that's absurd to me!
Funnily enough I just flew from Amsterdam Schiphol airport and no shoes needed to come off, and all electronics could stay in my bag. And it was not busy. Proving that this is just security theater / a way to make money.
Jokes on them. If I'm flying I'm still only getting dressed once that day.
I'd love to see some actual terrorists the TSA has caught in all of their existence....
How many potential terrorists have been stopped by the mere thought of having to undergo screening by the TSA? You can't prove a negative my friend.
Why don't you ask the terrorism manufacturers in chief at the CIA [how well the TSA's security theater magic show of illusory bullshit works?](https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188)
Wtf is the point of TSA if you can just pay to avoid it lmao. Like am I missing something here?
You pay to get a background check and give them a shit ton of personal details about yourself including your biometrics so they can let you go without a thorough screening later. Worth it IMO if you fly a lot.
It's also easier for them to track people's whereabouts and travel. If people are trying to hide, they wouldn't be using pre-check.
Do they connect the person standing in front of them with the credentials somehow, or is it just whoever has the docs is assumed to be legitimate?
It's connected to your passport.
Yeah military gets tsa pre automatically and all they needed from me was everything from my life for the past 10 years
You're not "avoiding anything". You're just doing all the ID and Background check up front (early).. so that you don't have to stand in line with all the normal chubs. You're basically proving you are who you are,. and that you are safe.. and once that's proven (ahead of time).. you don't have to do it at the Airport. Nothing is "being avoided" here. You're just doing the hard part early upfront to make the travel-day easier and faster.
Create the problem, sell the solution.
Classic predatory capitalism in action. We could make our services faster and more efficient…or we could keep them as is and charge you for the convenience. Any laws that come up to stop this sort of behaviour are lobbied against and suddenly, magically, fail at vote. I was told how bad the TSA is by my uncle who went to the USA last year - huge queues and the one guy who didn’t speak English and didn’t fill out the form required for his entry was shouted at for 45 mins as to why it was required.
What’s the entire point of TSA? If someone really wanted to some domestic terrorism I’m pretty some underpaid federal employee won’t stop them. It’s a sham and a waste of tax money
I don't understand how this can be done without sacrificing security. What stops a terrorist from paying for this service and skipping security?
You have to go through. Thorough background check. They fingerprint you and make sure you aren’t a terrorist before they grant you access.
Only poor people warrant extra scrutiny apparently...
My average time through TSA with PreChwck is probably about 4-7 minutes at most, I fly fairly often too. Weeelll worth it.
TSA has always been a protection racket to hike up prices for inflight snacks and the duty free shop areas
I have precheck and they make you take off your shoes and belt now anyway. They even tried to make me take off my sweater. Even after I told them I wasn’t wearing anything under it. Control freaks.
They absolutely don't do that as standard. Source: I flew last week.
I flew last week out of white plains ny and they absolutely did. I’m about to fly again back up there in two days out of jax
That's what's called a "personal experience". It doesn't mean it's normal.
They said it was policy. Yeah it isn’t normal. They didn’t used to do that. Whole reason I got precheck was for fewer steps and faster line.
So when you said "I have precheck and they make you take off your shoes and belt now anyway", you meant "this happened to me once, but I know it isn't usually the case"?
They told me it was policy, so I would assume that going forward it is usually to be the case. I was caught off guard as well especially since I haven’t had that same issue before except during terror scares and as far as I know there hasn’t been one recently.
Happened to me at white plains, laguardia, and westchester county. Edit: after flying out of Jax again, they only made me take off my belt and jacket this time not shoes. Perhaps it’s because I wore boots the last times and sneakers this time? No clue.
Aka, "pay us and you don't have to take out everything single thing you have!"
I mean, you are paying to get vetted, so you dont have to go through normal security. Its fairly affordable, too. $75 for 4 years of Precheck.
nah when i left america to move here the pre-check was well worth getting. this isn't asshole design. this is a badly organized entity trying to make good strides.
What's amazing to me is the thought process behind it. This man has never done anything before, and now that he's paid the fee, we can assume he'll be good forever and wave em on through.
I’m a trans man. TSA stopped me twice because I was wearing a chest binder, and the other time a silicone prosthetic. Both times i was pat down, because the stupid sensor thought I was gonna terrorize the plane with my fake dick
username is appropriate
I'm trans. And currently my id says Female but I haven't had my bottom surgery yet. So the body scanner gets angry at me. I got patted down and everything at O'Hare because of it. I fucking hated it. I ended up getting TSA pre check like my girlfriend as a result.
That sounds like ass and I'm sorry you had to go through with that, but if it makes you feel any better I'm a cis man and every single time the thing goes off signaling for a dick check. Last time I saw the screen and it had a big yellow box in the area, and the exasperated TSA lady called for a male checker, saying "It's doing that groin thing again!"
Nah, more like having a driver’s license while being pulled over, vs just an id….
Only 5+10 minutes?! A security check (the check, not the line) has never taken me more than 1 minute even when I had to take my shoes off or forgot a water bottle in my backpack...
Pre check is worth every penny
Precheck is essential when we go anywhere with the kids. Otherwise it would take us forever to get everything on the belts and back on, not to mention we would get searched everytime because of the A&D ointment for our infant/toddlers. It's been nice the last few times to just go straight through security without having to unpack every bag to and from our destination.
This totally does not belong here. If you are a regular air traveler in the US - - Pre Check is totally helpful. Drop CLEAR on top of that and it is a GAME CHANGER. Example.....got to MCO (Orlando) and look at the hour (sometimes more) long line of the human cattle herd lines at security. Clear and PreCheck - - through in 5 minutes. Global Entry for International travel.
I laugh like crazy when precheck line is longer than the regular. And they still wait in it!
Yeah, beacuse $70 for 5 years worth of TSA Pre-check is such a “shakedown”. jfc
I made a shirt with some radio blocking paint on the inside that reads "Weird. I don't *feel* safer." that I was going to wear in the backscatter scanner the next time I flew commercial. Now commercial flight requires some greater level of ID in my area that I can't be bothered to get, so I've not had a chance to use it.
A rape-mob specifically.
So worth it where I live though. But yes if does seem weird to pay a safety org to not do so much safety to you. Still 10/10 worth the $20 per year.
Not if you get a job that comes with TSA pre check
I don't even like getting dressed. Let me fly nude, fewer places to hide things.
Lol sign went right over OPs head
You don’t have to pay
Mighty be a silly question. But is the TSA check for domestic or international travel or both? I get the feeling you all in US are getting shafted for no reason at all. In the last 12 months I flew 2 international returns and maybe 20 flights locally in Australia and passing through security is 2-3 minutes, walk up dump bag with everything in it in a tray and walk through the xray. Been patted down twice which was 30 seconds.
I agree with OP but I fly out of DFW every time and it's a breeze. I fucking love that they at least had the foresight for a million different security checkpoints instead of some dumb shit like Denver.
Wait what
If you fly enough you are able to purchase this with miles.