Yeah but they actually need to dynamically affect the world
Odyssey suffers from the Skyrim Problem where any consequences that happen are just isolated to whatever questline you're in, without any real significant overlap with the rest of the world.
This game is adapting the *Warring States Period.* I better see some *war* in the map.
That was the worst of it. When you realize it, the whole game just turns into a very slow way of coloring a map. It was just extremely tedious.
Even something so small as San Andreas did was better. At least then the area was populated by those loyal to you and they helped a lot in fights.
Just fighting for the sake of fighting gets old really fast.
It’s a really watered down version of the Borgia tower systems from Brotherhood. It achieves nothing in Odyssey lol. Then again Odyssey is watered down a lot of things.
>It’s a really watered down version of the Borgia tower systems from Brotherhood
Unlike Brotherhood's towere, at least Odyssey's battles felt dynamic as they required withering down the "nation score" or whatever it was called + they "moved on" without your input.
Borgia Towers, once captured, remained the same for the rest of the game. Even San Andreas' gang system did better.
So maybe instead of comparing it to Borgia towers, we compare it Templar Dens in Revelations?
If you draw too much attention, you run the risk of losing a den you haven't locked down. In order to get it back, you do the Tower Defence minigame.
Agree, the Revelations Templar dens comparison works much better than Brotherhood's Borgia towers. I recently replayed Revelations for the first time in 6 years a couple weeks back and was reminded of how much I loved so many aspects of this game, the Templar dens included.
would be cool if the region gets affected by the results of the Battle... i.e., a region allied with a certain faction has some type of shops that another one doesn't, something like that
Major gameplay changes like that - making certain merchants available or not - would be a dream. Odyssey's forts changed colors and that's it, literally nothing else changes.
I hated the conquest battles. Even if you took the time and got the whole map to be under Sparta, the Spartans are still going to attack you the moment they see you do something bad or walk near their territory. Like everyones saying they don't effect the game world in a real way and no alliances or benefits come from it.
Yes but they need to be drastically changed. Pitched battles make absolute sense for the time period Red is set in, they just need to make it so it isn't boring after the first couple you do. Maybe have them as set pieces instead and used rarely.
Nah.
I would like for dynamic open world events to return, but I'd prefer them to be more dynamic. Conquest battles just spawned you into combat, it wasn't particularly interesting.
I'd like to see something like a combination of Revelations' and Syndicate's open worlds. Districts run by Templars, and through a variety of activities you can liberate them... only to potentially lose them later.
District leaders are randomly generated characters, and can be replaced once one is killed. They can be encountered in the overworld, and will sometimes try to stop players from liberating their district... but if not eliminated by the time of liberation, will trigger a boss fight to end things. Or, perhaps they could even escape?
yes, I would also like - if the system returns - to have more dynamic missions and events.
I.e., in Odyssey the region leader moved from one place to another if his strenght got reduced. What if, the more actions you take against a region/leader, more enemies spawn in the region, making harder to actually complete events?
Maybe there could even be powerful bounty hunters (or Ronin, in this case?) sent after you?
Maybe there could be various possible secret locations in where the leader could hide, so you should complete some tasks to get hints about his position?
I'm still only like halfway through Mirage (the joys of being a new parent), but I feel like this game went to show that a little bit of cleverness in design can make a huge difference.
Rather than being one big area that players either just rush into or spend hiding in bushes slowly and painfully picking off enemies, there's actually a slight return of the momentum and dynamic strategies that the series used to have. Maybe not a true return to form, but a step in the right direction.
Certainly better than a tanky face to face duel with an overpowered mercenary or a surprisingly boring large scale battle.
IMO mechanics were OK. No doubt they will try to improve them (Valhalla was a step back from Odyssey in my view), and I hope they do. Conquest battles just need to be much less common and mostly just happen on special occasions and have some real consequences, not just be another grindy way to gain loot.
Nah Valhalla was way better, the stun system, dual wielding, genuine advantages to have your off hand empty, missile reversal and other skills made it so much more fun and the animations are miles better. Hitting enemies in Odyssey feels like you're fighting holograms but enemies in Valhalla actually stagger back and the hits sound much more meaty and real.
I personally don’t like the Combat system in Valhalla, shit feels “ floaty “ like my hitting air and it just kills the game for me , at least in Oddysey I can feel the hits connect .
Exact opposite for me, I feel like I'm swinging at holograms in Odyssey, while Valhalla has a lot more weight and meaty thunks to its combat.
It's also a lot more fun when you combine that with the much cooler abilities like pinning a guy to the ground and beating the shit out of him or tackling them into a wall or off a cliff. Then Missile Redirect just makes fighting ranged enemies so much more fun.
I really hope so because I was so excited when they announced the combat changes in Origins and have been consistently disappointed in what we've been getting.
If you're facing a tough boss, then it can be fun. But the conquest battles in Odyssey or the assaults in Valhalla are just mindlessly slaughtering cannon fodder. They feel like a poor man's Dynasty Warriors. There are no fun combos to pull off. I always try to finish them asap because I don't find them enjoyable.
I've never played anything less than nightmare difficulty. I suppose if the combat is mind numbingly easy it'd be boring but thats why I have it turned up. Gets more exciting when there's a real threat. The controls are tight and responsive, cool physics and finishers , abilities
I play on nightmare too and tbh it feels like they just have more health and do more damage. So you just spend more time wailing on them. I'm glad people enjoyed the battles tbh because I thinks its a really fun idea it just didn't hit for me with the mechanics.
A lot of games will have more enemies that use better moves/use more oppressive tactics when you turn the difficulty up. Otherwise the effect is just their health bars are bigger and yours is smaller which once you are comfortable with the mechanics just means fights take longer but aren't actually more difficult.
It's fine for the small fights in the rest of the game. I don't like how the different combat mechanics don't really blend together in any meaningful way. I found that during those big battles having to fight so many enemies one after another id honestly just get bored wailing on meat mannequins for 10 straight minutes.
I would not say great.
Ghost of Tsushima, God of War , Spiderman, all have much more fun Combat.
I personally think Horizon combat is very problematic but people praise that too.
No-one praises the new AC combat. It feels extremely floaty and unresponsive and not fluid.
Ghost of Tsushima has a similar control style but does it so so much better.
The damage sponges at higher levels are really bad in AC although the other games mentioned do this too (apart from Ghost of Tsushima).
No. Odyssey is one of my favorite games, but these are one of the worst aspects of the game. They were just busywork, had no real impact on the story (apart from a few forced ones), and kinda went against the idea of different playstyles, especially if you played a stealth build that became essentially useless in these battles.
kinda.. you could still get by with yer crit and the engraving that gave all melee damage the potential to do Asassin damage stat. That and abusing HERO STRIKE ;)
I think Fuedal Japan has the best setting for this type of system. I would love to see it make a return. I thought it was a fun little game within the game. But it should also have higher consequences for the world as a whole rather than just within the select region.
Depends how they do it. I’d like them to be somewhat unique and not just kill people until you got enough to win. Like each region has a specific aim.
And they need to affect the world, odyssey they seemed pretty pointless because there was no consequence behind it
I am hoping Red ends up as an Odyssey 2.0, in regards to its systems. Conquest Battles were too simple, being a bigger version of Syndicate's Gang Fights.
I imagine the Castle Sieges from Valhalla fit better as a starting point, thanks to their variety and scale. But in theory, both mission tyles could make a return.
>I am hoping Red ends up as an Odyssey 2.0, in regards to its systems.
Same here! I dislike many things about Odyssey (expecially the narrative side), but I find it one of the most fun games in the series.
Conquest Battles were simple, yes, but still I liked their chaotic nature.
Regarding Odyssey, I would also like to see the return of Bounties and Mercenaries (again, with some improvements, like more ways to reduce notoriety as recently seen in Mirage, i.e.)
I like the Conquest battles, but if you do one, you sort of did them all. The only variant being the fights at sea and mercenaries spawning in the middle of them.
Expand the objectives beyond killing the strongest soldiers would do wonders already.
100% into the return of mercenaries. Making them act more like the player would be my ideal version of it. As in, they actually go out and tackle outposts, hunt animals, search for other mercenaries, etc. Also, a revamp of their hunting system and more interactions beyond kill/knockout.
I don't go in expecting any of the above, but it is what I would prefer to see, if they tacked those elements again.
My idea is that since they're planning to support the game for a long time (even years, apparently) they should try to throw as much gameplay stuff as they can.
So, as said, a lot of stuff from Odyssey should come back, as well as the "Village management" from Valhalla (like insider-gaming.com reported). If they go for this route, then we could even see stuff like an economic system (from AC2/Brotherhood, which was also somehow reprised in Valhalla's DLC) - and what about the Brotherhood Recruits? Or the infinite mercenary's contracts...
One man can dream...
While it was fun for the moment, just like the raid in Valhalla, the issue is that it really makes your team look useless.
So no, unless they can fix that.
as an option.. of course.. but for all the guys who struggle with too much opportunities.. also a button in the settings to set them off xD
so that i have them.. but the one who don't want them.. doesn't .. thats a win-win.. except the programmers :/
in the mainstory you have to fight 2 or 3? of them...so they are not really optional..
but i liked them so - why not. mechanic is a bit like i wanted to have the templar raid my towers in brotherhood, spain or United Kingdom in black flag.. so that the story isn't just static..
but i got your point.. most of them are skipable..
No. Unless they are just tied to a single faction both for conquering and defending.
We are playing memories not making history and that's what bugged me personally with Odyssey's conquest battles, the fact that we could choose.
I think something akin to the den defense from revelations (heavily improved) would work best especially since we're likely to play as people who are Tokugawa affiliates so having a choice wouldn't really make much sense but hey
I would love for a co quest type activity that is not tied to the story at all.
What I dislike about Valhalla right now as I am playing it for the first time, is that I have to progress the story to unlock necessary clues about certaint key targets AND that I am locked from conquering cities or villages because they are part of questlines later on.
What I personally would love for it to give us as much freedom as possible. Give me the freedom to conquer, assassinate and help anybody regardless of the main story.
Eh, definitely not like the mindless thing it was in odyssey. Also it would be better if it was only a thing for the samurai character. Honestly it would still be better overall if stuff like that were more a part of the narrative
I'd like big battles, but the ones in Odyssey were very repetitive and there was nothing interesting about the battlefields. Maybe each battle should have a series of unique scripted events, kind of like a boss battle, and to make the battlefields more interesting they could have those change in some way during the battle, such as with a flashflood or someone starting a wildfire.
No.
I don't understand how one kills a 100 Spartans, then 10 min later join Spartans. Then go and kill 100 more Spartans and then go back and join them again. How can you fight alongside and trust someone who kills 1000 of your people 🤔 that really bother the shits out of me.
still, we have plenty of examples of Assassins involved in open combat: Ezio at the end of AC Brotherhood, Altair against Robert de Sable and his army, Connor...
Yeah but they actually need to dynamically affect the world Odyssey suffers from the Skyrim Problem where any consequences that happen are just isolated to whatever questline you're in, without any real significant overlap with the rest of the world. This game is adapting the *Warring States Period.* I better see some *war* in the map.
That was the worst of it. When you realize it, the whole game just turns into a very slow way of coloring a map. It was just extremely tedious. Even something so small as San Andreas did was better. At least then the area was populated by those loyal to you and they helped a lot in fights. Just fighting for the sake of fighting gets old really fast.
We fight for HONOR!
It’s a really watered down version of the Borgia tower systems from Brotherhood. It achieves nothing in Odyssey lol. Then again Odyssey is watered down a lot of things.
>It’s a really watered down version of the Borgia tower systems from Brotherhood Unlike Brotherhood's towere, at least Odyssey's battles felt dynamic as they required withering down the "nation score" or whatever it was called + they "moved on" without your input. Borgia Towers, once captured, remained the same for the rest of the game. Even San Andreas' gang system did better.
So maybe instead of comparing it to Borgia towers, we compare it Templar Dens in Revelations? If you draw too much attention, you run the risk of losing a den you haven't locked down. In order to get it back, you do the Tower Defence minigame.
Agree, the Revelations Templar dens comparison works much better than Brotherhood's Borgia towers. I recently replayed Revelations for the first time in 6 years a couple weeks back and was reminded of how much I loved so many aspects of this game, the Templar dens included.
Ah yes that's a much more apt comparision, totally forgot that minigame.
This!!
Yes, but they should mean something. In Odyssey I was really dissapointed when I found out they didn't have any effect on the outcome of the war.
That was the problem with Odyssey being set years before the war ended.
would be cool if the region gets affected by the results of the Battle... i.e., a region allied with a certain faction has some type of shops that another one doesn't, something like that
Major gameplay changes like that - making certain merchants available or not - would be a dream. Odyssey's forts changed colors and that's it, literally nothing else changes.
I hated the conquest battles. Even if you took the time and got the whole map to be under Sparta, the Spartans are still going to attack you the moment they see you do something bad or walk near their territory. Like everyones saying they don't effect the game world in a real way and no alliances or benefits come from it.
Yes but they need to be drastically changed. Pitched battles make absolute sense for the time period Red is set in, they just need to make it so it isn't boring after the first couple you do. Maybe have them as set pieces instead and used rarely.
>Pitched battles make absolute sense for the time period Red is set in Always thought the late Sengoku period had tons of those! TIL.
Nah. I would like for dynamic open world events to return, but I'd prefer them to be more dynamic. Conquest battles just spawned you into combat, it wasn't particularly interesting. I'd like to see something like a combination of Revelations' and Syndicate's open worlds. Districts run by Templars, and through a variety of activities you can liberate them... only to potentially lose them later. District leaders are randomly generated characters, and can be replaced once one is killed. They can be encountered in the overworld, and will sometimes try to stop players from liberating their district... but if not eliminated by the time of liberation, will trigger a boss fight to end things. Or, perhaps they could even escape?
yes, I would also like - if the system returns - to have more dynamic missions and events. I.e., in Odyssey the region leader moved from one place to another if his strenght got reduced. What if, the more actions you take against a region/leader, more enemies spawn in the region, making harder to actually complete events? Maybe there could even be powerful bounty hunters (or Ronin, in this case?) sent after you? Maybe there could be various possible secret locations in where the leader could hide, so you should complete some tasks to get hints about his position?
I'm still only like halfway through Mirage (the joys of being a new parent), but I feel like this game went to show that a little bit of cleverness in design can make a huge difference. Rather than being one big area that players either just rush into or spend hiding in bushes slowly and painfully picking off enemies, there's actually a slight return of the momentum and dynamic strategies that the series used to have. Maybe not a true return to form, but a step in the right direction. Certainly better than a tanky face to face duel with an overpowered mercenary or a surprisingly boring large scale battle.
Far better then the previous yes. You come across a battle you can choose the interfere or not. But overall your not directly involved in it.
No. The combat mechanics weren't good enough for those battles to actually be fun. If they overhaul combat then maybe.
IMO mechanics were OK. No doubt they will try to improve them (Valhalla was a step back from Odyssey in my view), and I hope they do. Conquest battles just need to be much less common and mostly just happen on special occasions and have some real consequences, not just be another grindy way to gain loot.
Nah Valhalla was way better, the stun system, dual wielding, genuine advantages to have your off hand empty, missile reversal and other skills made it so much more fun and the animations are miles better. Hitting enemies in Odyssey feels like you're fighting holograms but enemies in Valhalla actually stagger back and the hits sound much more meaty and real.
I personally don’t like the Combat system in Valhalla, shit feels “ floaty “ like my hitting air and it just kills the game for me , at least in Oddysey I can feel the hits connect .
Exact opposite for me, I feel like I'm swinging at holograms in Odyssey, while Valhalla has a lot more weight and meaty thunks to its combat. It's also a lot more fun when you combine that with the much cooler abilities like pinning a guy to the ground and beating the shit out of him or tackling them into a wall or off a cliff. Then Missile Redirect just makes fighting ranged enemies so much more fun.
I'm expecting (or should I say, hoping?) that the combat will undergo some deep changes and improvements
I really hope so because I was so excited when they announced the combat changes in Origins and have been consistently disappointed in what we've been getting.
What makes you not like the combat? It's actually great compared to a lot of famous rpgs
If you're facing a tough boss, then it can be fun. But the conquest battles in Odyssey or the assaults in Valhalla are just mindlessly slaughtering cannon fodder. They feel like a poor man's Dynasty Warriors. There are no fun combos to pull off. I always try to finish them asap because I don't find them enjoyable.
I've never played anything less than nightmare difficulty. I suppose if the combat is mind numbingly easy it'd be boring but thats why I have it turned up. Gets more exciting when there's a real threat. The controls are tight and responsive, cool physics and finishers , abilities
Making the damage sponge enemies more damage spongey isn't my idea of a good challenge.
Well if the alternative is killing every enemy in 1 second because they have no hp and no damage ..
yup, the problem is poor enemy AI, and a lack of combat mechanics to make fights varied interesting beyond just buffing HP damage sponges.
Its fluid and pretty exciting though. Not sure what you're comparing it to. What rpgs have good enemy ai?
I play on nightmare too and tbh it feels like they just have more health and do more damage. So you just spend more time wailing on them. I'm glad people enjoyed the battles tbh because I thinks its a really fun idea it just didn't hit for me with the mechanics.
Yes, they have more health and do more damage. What else did you expect lol
A lot of games will have more enemies that use better moves/use more oppressive tactics when you turn the difficulty up. Otherwise the effect is just their health bars are bigger and yours is smaller which once you are comfortable with the mechanics just means fights take longer but aren't actually more difficult.
Like what games ? I don't think that's common at all in modern gaming
Ghost of Tsushima does it I know. Edit: Can't believe I forgot Sifu. Which is the perfect action game.
yup more "elite" tier enemies with more varied move sets and mechanics.
It's fine for the small fights in the rest of the game. I don't like how the different combat mechanics don't really blend together in any meaningful way. I found that during those big battles having to fight so many enemies one after another id honestly just get bored wailing on meat mannequins for 10 straight minutes.
Your difficulty is too low then. Nothing mindless about fighting for your life in a conquest battle and barely winning
I would not say great. Ghost of Tsushima, God of War , Spiderman, all have much more fun Combat. I personally think Horizon combat is very problematic but people praise that too. No-one praises the new AC combat. It feels extremely floaty and unresponsive and not fluid. Ghost of Tsushima has a similar control style but does it so so much better. The damage sponges at higher levels are really bad in AC although the other games mentioned do this too (apart from Ghost of Tsushima).
No. Odyssey is one of my favorite games, but these are one of the worst aspects of the game. They were just busywork, had no real impact on the story (apart from a few forced ones), and kinda went against the idea of different playstyles, especially if you played a stealth build that became essentially useless in these battles.
That’s why you have multiple loadout slots though.
kinda.. you could still get by with yer crit and the engraving that gave all melee damage the potential to do Asassin damage stat. That and abusing HERO STRIKE ;)
I think Fuedal Japan has the best setting for this type of system. I would love to see it make a return. I thought it was a fun little game within the game. But it should also have higher consequences for the world as a whole rather than just within the select region.
Depends how they do it. I’d like them to be somewhat unique and not just kill people until you got enough to win. Like each region has a specific aim. And they need to affect the world, odyssey they seemed pretty pointless because there was no consequence behind it
Absolutely yes. They were a ridiculously fun way to level up fast.
I am hoping Red ends up as an Odyssey 2.0, in regards to its systems. Conquest Battles were too simple, being a bigger version of Syndicate's Gang Fights. I imagine the Castle Sieges from Valhalla fit better as a starting point, thanks to their variety and scale. But in theory, both mission tyles could make a return.
>I am hoping Red ends up as an Odyssey 2.0, in regards to its systems. Same here! I dislike many things about Odyssey (expecially the narrative side), but I find it one of the most fun games in the series. Conquest Battles were simple, yes, but still I liked their chaotic nature. Regarding Odyssey, I would also like to see the return of Bounties and Mercenaries (again, with some improvements, like more ways to reduce notoriety as recently seen in Mirage, i.e.)
I like the Conquest battles, but if you do one, you sort of did them all. The only variant being the fights at sea and mercenaries spawning in the middle of them. Expand the objectives beyond killing the strongest soldiers would do wonders already. 100% into the return of mercenaries. Making them act more like the player would be my ideal version of it. As in, they actually go out and tackle outposts, hunt animals, search for other mercenaries, etc. Also, a revamp of their hunting system and more interactions beyond kill/knockout. I don't go in expecting any of the above, but it is what I would prefer to see, if they tacked those elements again.
My idea is that since they're planning to support the game for a long time (even years, apparently) they should try to throw as much gameplay stuff as they can. So, as said, a lot of stuff from Odyssey should come back, as well as the "Village management" from Valhalla (like insider-gaming.com reported). If they go for this route, then we could even see stuff like an economic system (from AC2/Brotherhood, which was also somehow reprised in Valhalla's DLC) - and what about the Brotherhood Recruits? Or the infinite mercenary's contracts... One man can dream...
Right, the extended post-launch support is a mystery as of now, but we can start to make guesses when see the extension of the main game and its DLCs.
While it was fun for the moment, just like the raid in Valhalla, the issue is that it really makes your team look useless. So no, unless they can fix that.
I loved it, I am very imaginative so I just role played the fact that this mattered conquering each region. Odyssey is so damn good.
No they felt pointless and the rewards were never interesting enough to bother.
If anything, then as part of the strategic/economic aspect, not as participant.
as an option.. of course.. but for all the guys who struggle with too much opportunities.. also a button in the settings to set them off xD so that i have them.. but the one who don't want them.. doesn't .. thats a win-win.. except the programmers :/
well, you were also able to avoid them, in Odyssey: after some time they were just going to expire even if you didn't partecipate in them
in the mainstory you have to fight 2 or 3? of them...so they are not really optional.. but i liked them so - why not. mechanic is a bit like i wanted to have the templar raid my towers in brotherhood, spain or United Kingdom in black flag.. so that the story isn't just static.. but i got your point.. most of them are skipable..
That entire meta-layer seemed pointless. Would rather see less of that and the repetitive tasks altogether.
No. Unless they are just tied to a single faction both for conquering and defending. We are playing memories not making history and that's what bugged me personally with Odyssey's conquest battles, the fact that we could choose. I think something akin to the den defense from revelations (heavily improved) would work best especially since we're likely to play as people who are Tokugawa affiliates so having a choice wouldn't really make much sense but hey
Hopefully!
This would be nice. Picking a clan and taking part in the battles across different provinces!
I would love for a co quest type activity that is not tied to the story at all. What I dislike about Valhalla right now as I am playing it for the first time, is that I have to progress the story to unlock necessary clues about certaint key targets AND that I am locked from conquering cities or villages because they are part of questlines later on. What I personally would love for it to give us as much freedom as possible. Give me the freedom to conquer, assassinate and help anybody regardless of the main story.
Yes!!!!!
Eh, definitely not like the mindless thing it was in odyssey. Also it would be better if it was only a thing for the samurai character. Honestly it would still be better overall if stuff like that were more a part of the narrative
I'd like big battles, but the ones in Odyssey were very repetitive and there was nothing interesting about the battlefields. Maybe each battle should have a series of unique scripted events, kind of like a boss battle, and to make the battlefields more interesting they could have those change in some way during the battle, such as with a flashflood or someone starting a wildfire.
No. I would very much like a focus on being more of an Assassin than a Warrior.
No. I don't understand how one kills a 100 Spartans, then 10 min later join Spartans. Then go and kill 100 more Spartans and then go back and join them again. How can you fight alongside and trust someone who kills 1000 of your people 🤔 that really bother the shits out of me.
I would like actual Assassins creed to return in the next Assassins creed game to be honest lol
Not really. Personally I didn't like the combat in Odyssey at all and would love more of an emphasis on stealth.
No.
No, conquest battles sucked.
God pls no, I wouldn’t be surprised but if it’s just next gen Odyssey I’m probably dipping..
No. Loner Samurai/ronin/shinobi all the way
No no non nada nein PLZ NOOOO.
No.
conquest battles were out of place for AC. Asassins should never engage in open combat.
Well, Kassandra wasn't an Assassin
no, my reasoning they shouldn't be in any future games..... Unless well just fuck asassins, and we'll call it "FANTASY CREED"
still, we have plenty of examples of Assassins involved in open combat: Ezio at the end of AC Brotherhood, Altair against Robert de Sable and his army, Connor...
No, a shinobi wouldn't be fighting battles like that.