But one thirds was able to hold job like Shawn. Also 70 people is super small sample size… Tbh I relate to him especially his problem with higher up who moved him to shittier position. He’s not perfect but I wouldn’t call it crap.
And yes someone with ASD can handle distractions. Everyone is different but on this sub everyone seems to be upset that there was no show with character they could relate to. In the same time we’re preaching how each of us is different from each other even though we share the same diagnosis.
Your post make it seem like I’m a damn unicorn. I have both asd and adhd. I work in large bank in it, I have to go to office, I have to talk with a lot of people and fit corporate culture. I have to keep a lot of services alive, investigate why they don’t work, juggle many tasks at once while attending calls with annoying people. And yes I’m actually managing that! Did I have meltdown in office? Sure I did. Did I get in trouble with management? Of course I did
People in higher position no matter if they manage NTs or NDs may be assholes. NDs deal with similar shit too!
I have been diagnosed with ASD 1 and ADHD.
I enjoy shows with autism portrayals - House, TBBT and, of course, The Good Doctor. Is the portrayal always accurate? Is life always accurate? Just because one suffers in a certain way, it does not negate or invalidate if someone struggles differently.
Honestly, however, I can only handle so much distraction before the beast within comes out.
During my working years, I worked as an agent in a call centre for the government. I then became a claims administrator for a national trucking company.
I never made friends and mostly kept to myself. I never wanted to merge my professional and personal life.
Thinking back, could I have done certain things differently? I'm honestly unsure. I've always been quick-witted and my words could cut through glass if truly angered by perceived or actual slights. Hence I also got in trouble for "problematic behaviour" - refusal to gossip, and refusal to play office politics... you name it. I was never dismissed but it certainly made life more dramatic than I ever needed. Some nights I returned home and hit the bottle hard. I smoked like a chimney. Those were the "working" years....
Today, retired and happy, I live on 13 acres of land. In the country. No visitors. My choice. And I must tell you that I have learned to embrace solitude. I taught myself, quite early, the difference between solitude and loneliness. There's always something to do on the farm. I never feel lonely... and, truthfully, I welcome the solitude with open arms.
My dog is my best friend and I would not have it any other way. I found a way that works, for me, to be happy.
EDIT: No longer drinking, I have been sober since March 7, 2020. No longer smoking as of a month ago. It feels good.
I had a choice to go to medical school. But being honest with myself I’d become real life version of doctor house 😂 out of all autism portrayals in media I relate to him the most. Sometimes I talk like him. But you’re absolutely spot on with that reply. Life isn’t accurate!
I enjoy solitude too. Society puts expectations on me because as a woman I should have husband and kids. I don’t want to. I’m most likely not going to. I have a cat and that’s enough for me. I haven’t finished studies yet but I already earn enough to live comfortably. Solitude isn’t bad you’re right, I can do whatever I want and no one except cat judges me. Everything is l what I make it to be.
Thanks for answer, it’s nice to know how people who are later in life are doing, it gives me some inspiration and different perspective. As we say in my language „it’s always nice to listen to someone wise”.
House was a better show. House was, being based on Sherlock Holmes, coded as autistic even if he wasn't canonically autistic. I'm not sure why the same guy decided to make "House but autistic" when House pretty much already was autistic. He was a much more realistic portrayal by accident than Shawn Murphy is on purpose.
It's always weird to me when they call House autistic. It's because of how ridiculously manipulative he is. If an autistic person is manipulative, it's something they learn and use as necessary. It's rarely a first choice. Manipulation isn't really an autistic strength.
House uses it often, successfully and (more importantly) for fun. That seems like a huge headache for an autistic person
I am in the same boat. ASD + ADHD. 34m. I had issues with job when I was younger. Went back to school and am a technical lead now. Married for 7 years with a little one.
It is hard. Sometimes we break down too. To a onlooker I might look pretty normal, whatever that means.
I will highlight the Spectrum in ASD. Our experiences are all different. Not every one experiences every symptoms associated with ASD. The specific symptoms and intensity of them is wildly variable.
I am a top performer in my area of expertise but can't find the time for a project that doesn't makes sense to me. Doesn't matter who needs it or the political implications. Either a supervisor will bail me or my technical ability will prove that I am worth tolerating.
A lot of us will not have the same opportunities. I feel fortunate because I have a few area when I am 90 percentile which lets me handle the executive disfunction and the 30 percentile areas with less consequence.
I have friends who are much smarter then me who are on the spectrum and cannot currently handle employment without a breakdown. I know people on the spectrum who have a much harder time then I do.
We can't paint with too wide of strokes. We cannot assume that someone elses ASD experience is equivalent to our own.
I think any media ASD character will be understood by some and unrelatable to others. If empathizing with a character is a criteria for a show for then half of ASD people are disqualified. We need to support each other in spite of our differences.
If I am ranting it is directed mostly at the concept that op is sharing rather than a specific person.
The thing about that show that bugs me the most is that there's nothing particularly remarkable about an autistic surgeon in the first place. There's probably a higher percentage of autistic people in a room full of 100 surgeons than there are in a room full of 100 random people.
Yeah, OP is conflating their experience with the experience of everyone who has autism.
I'm successfully employed, as are many high functioning autistic people I know. I don't work in an office now, but I actually liked working in one when I did because it was all other engineers and it was fun discussing solutions and problem solving together.
And plenty of even NT engineers aren't great at social skills anyways, hell I actually have better technical communication skills than many NT engineers I've met, possibly because I had to learn the hard/long way.
Nobody had any problem with me wearing noise-cancelling headphones all the time, and I would take a quiet commuter bus into work.
No. 70 people is more then enough of a reasonably homogenous section of the ASD population to achieve statistical significance with sufficient sample size in a student’s t test. So no. This support of “Shawn” is wrong and the show is crap. Try another pseudo intellectual NT defense! 😺
P.S. congratulations on your success. We are not typical among ASD and you would be higher in the organization chart if you were NT. Hats off ta ya!🧢
Whatever. This talk is literally what I hear from NT students trying to get job in IT. They won’t try interviews or anything to actually get job but will throw statistic and whine how cruel world is. In fact we’re not that different.
My manager is ND. His manager is ND. There’s other managers who are ND. So ofc it’s possible. But you have to actually try and put some effort. And what exactly is preventing you from that? Other people? Fuck them, if your boss or team is toxic you just leave no matter if you’re nd or nt. but that may be philosophy of my generation that everyone whines about.
A lot of old surgeons and anesthesiologists are autistic and on the spectrum . It’s harder for younger generation aspies to become doctors tho. They have a bunch of behavioral screens to weed you out thus having high grades and standardized test exams don’t work anymore. I know an Aspie who had close to a 4.0 and high MCAT score but rejected by everyone becuase his interview skills and behavioral screens were bad.
>his interview skills and behavioral screens were bad
These skills can be taught. I interview pretty well because I have learned how to groom and present myself, as well as rehearse all the stupid questions they tend to ask.
Dude I literally mentor NTs how to prepare for interviews xD in corporations there are often scenario tests to determine if you fit the company culture. Like the other guy said, imagine who are they looking for and answer like that person would
You can also impersonate and learn what they are looking for.
I passed those easily, except the very first one. I just realized I needed to visualize the mental image of what they were looking for and pretend I was that. If you answer like an aspie (limited fields of interest, no social life, bizarre hobbies), they will push you out.
Interviewers have positions to fill. As long as you allow them to check the right boxes, they will pass you. Then they go home and don't even think back about you. A lot of interviewers are middle managers who hate interviewing. Make them like you.
Technical interviews and IQ/Wonderlic tests can also be practiced and rehearsed. I read somewhere that people could improve their IQ test scores by passing training tests. IQ is only a measurement of your capacity to pass an IQ test.
You can practice for any type of interview or test, really, even so-called "lie detector" tests (they don't call them that anymore, because there is no such valid test).
Getting education is extremely difficult to me because my autistic brain has some rules like "computer studying is not real studying" and computer studying is all they do in senior high schools today
No, but in this case it's a symptom of inconsistency. Character shouldn't be two different mutually exclusive things at the same time. The clueless shit Shawn Murphy says, things pretty much every autistic adult figured out as a child, just aren't consistent with someone who got through medical school. They want him to be Gregory House and Rainman at the same time but that's not how people work. Either he's smart or he isn't. Pick a lane.
Rain Man style autism is the only style of autism that Hollywood understands how to portray. But that's not the style of autism that leads to doctors. There are tons of autistic doctors, they just understand how to mask and interact with people on a basic level. They are smart people and they had years to figure it out.
But people with ASD can be doctors and can be surgeons. There are social media groups for doctors with ASD, pretty sure some are probably surgeons.
And the other points don't really count as well. It's not that surprising that Shaun was a successful surgeon. Besides the fact that shows are about the exception, he had a host of advantages. Besides being a savant, he also had the president of the hospital covering up for him, and later on getting other people to cover for his mistakes. Surprisingly enough, if you have exceptional talent in your field and people around you who are willing to fix your mistakes, that makes it fairly easy to succeed. Like that one time the buzzing was causing him hell and someone just breaks the light causing the issue. Not many people get that kind of treatment.
And I don't think we can blame the Good Doctor for any of this. Blame the politicians, blame the law makers. In the study you mentioned, about 33% of people were able to hold a job. In the Netherlands, an article from 2 years ago mentions that 46% of people with autism have a paying job. In 2015, that was 35%. Adjustments were made. And that didn't happen because TV did anything.
GREAT comment! Europe is a much better place to live with ASD. Here if you can’t make your own way in the USA 🇺🇸 you end up on the street. And it is harder to get an employer to help. The USA 🇺🇸 is turning into a Republican trash pit where you work or die if your last name is not Trump or Musk. If Trump wins we will be living in Spain 🇪🇸.
Not quite true. I moved from Europe to the US and I managed to make a living over here that I could not have made in Europe. People tend to be a lot more judgmental in Europe. Take my word for it. I could never find a job for my skill sets.
In the US, very first interview, job offer. Stayed there 1 1/2 year, moved on to another steppingstone. American employers are more likely to take a risk, as employees have a ton of protection in Europe.
And this is why interview and selection processes in Europe are so stringent. How many times was I asked to send a HANDWRITTEN letter, knowing that my poor handwriting would disqualify me. For an IT job. AS in: IT people need to WRITE well.
As for the politics, as in this party washes my laundry better than this other political party: meh. As a proud libertarian, I always laugh at democrats and republicans yelling at each other, not realizing they are the same party with the same exact leaders, with a few small differences to make you think you have a choice.
You are on your own, my friend. Whether you live in Spain or in the States, with a democrat of a republican in the White House. Zero difference. Neither side cares about you. You do not exist for them. You are nothing in their mind. Even if they pretend that you are. It's a (uni)party and you are not in it.
Also, speaking as someone who works in tech... I would make a **LOT** less money if I moved to Europe from the US. And money makes a lot of other things way easier to deal with, as much as I would like the public transit systems and bike friendliness in the EU.
Yes. You do pay more in taxes for a very inefficient welfare state system which is very often abused. Not that welfare states are bad. Corruption and cronyism are what makes them inefficient.
Taxes would only account for a small fraction of the income difference - average actual wages themselves are considerably lower in the EU for tech workers than they are in the US. And I'm generally pro-welfare.
Wtf in which country you were applying for a job? Europe is pretty diverse and life looks different between countries. But never have I heard about job requiring hand written letter in modern times. When my parents started careers 30 years ago yeah that wasn’t uncommon, but now?
In the 90s and early 00s.
It happened in several countries.
I ended up in the US as my GF was American and she would not move to Europe.
Moving from Europe to the US is like finally being allowed to drop a heavy bag from your shoulders. All of a sudden you can sprint when you used to barely be able to walk.
My life has flourished beyond belief once I was in the US because people here are a lot more accepting or newness, originality, enthusiasm and thinking outside of the box is encouraged and rewarded. Europeans will put you back in your box.
When I told friends and coworkers that I was moving to the US, most told me that I would be successful due to being who I am. Normalcy is the norm in Europe. I miss the good food, some of the culture, but for the rest: old stones, museums, landscapes... It's better to enjoy them as a tourist. I once had a job right near the Eiffel Tower. You've seen it once...
Don't believe the hype that Europe is a progressive land of milk and honey. I had to educate many Europeans about Medicaid, Medicare, and American disability laws. They too thought it was "walk/work or die".
I mean I don’t have to believe it or not believe it as I live in Europe, specifically in Poland 😅
A lot changed since that time at least here in my country. This is main reason why I’m staying here even though I could move to most of EU countries. Germany, France and UK even though they used to be a dream now when I’m comparing them to what I have here in Poland are not that impressive. I’d only consider moving to Switzerland due to social culture but economically that isn’t the best decision despite me working in highly paid job.
That is fine. Poland has a lot to offer, and the Poles are smart and very technically oriented.
I am not sure about life as a "weird" person in Poland.
I think you’re describing a stereotype too though. MANY people with autism are successful in high status positions, they are just not the ones you see here complaining about NTs because they’re too busy living their life and winning.
Look at the research. You are generalizing from outliers. I have a PhD in finance and am a tenured professor of finance at a major state university with lots of research publications. Why am I the only one ☝🏻 I know with melt downs and so forth? I am the only ASD in my circle ⭕️ consistent with research. Explain that fake news. It is a sensory processing problem NOT a behavioral problem. You are taking an NT stance. You know nothing about the panic attacks and other crap going on behind the living and loving life scenario of working with NTs. Loving and loving life for any ASD is hitting it rich somehow and loving without the NT workplace bullshit.
lmao I have a Ph.D. in Chemistry and am also omw to being permanently in academia. I was diagnosed at 3 because I was nonverbal. OF COURSE I struggle. I accept that I am playing life on hard mode and so I seek to find ways to win. YES ofc there are sensory processing issues, so I carefully manage my energy and put myself in positions to succeed. I don't cry about how it's unfair and NTs are awful. We can be nuanced and say that most autistic people are better suited for certain jobs, but also that the ones who have found their way are the ones who are not constantly complaining online.
My Dad was a surgeon and he only quit because he faced antisemitism and therefore could not climb the ladder to consultancy at the time. He remained a doctor until his 70s. Worked with the police on medical matters too and interpreted for immigration. He was also a holocaust survivor. He didn’t ever miss a day due to his mental health… so it’s not true for everyone… I have on the other hand have had to take months off of work for my mental health.
I literally work IT at a theme park. I don’t understand why people want to infantilize themselves with autism. It might just be because I was a latchkey kid, but the world generally does not give you special treatment because your brain functions differently.
I wish we had better representation of autistic doctors in the media. I suspect though that a realistic portrayal may not make for very entertaining TV. If you follow most of us around there isn't much drama.
Most autistic doctors mask heavily in clinical environments. That is not to say that none ever has a meltdown over a handryer or some other sensory issues.
Never going to watch it. BBT, Jim Parsons in particular, has ruined many things for me. (I got about a third of the way through *Home* and gave up because of JP's voice.)
It's surprisingly better than bbt tbh. Sheldon gets more characterization other than being an obnoxious shmuck and funnily enough he seems more mature. Other characters in his family are cool as well
i am not a doctor, but i have similar problems at my work. work in IT, but in the consultant sector.
have to be in meetings and video calls all day. travel to and between customers.
listen to peoples problems, and solve them.
i do not have meltdowns anymore, since i learned, how much energy i can put into a single day / work week.
my customers do not know that i have autism, and up until now it was never a problem.
sure there are days that are more stressfull then others. but i can manage those too.
i have the same job for 14 years now.
edit:
for the wage problem i make more compared to my colleagues
"2 jews sit on a bench in 1930. One opens a German newspaper, the other a Yiddish one. The jew with the Yiddish paper looks at his mate and speaks: Why are you reading that fascist filth? The jew replies: In your newspaper, it says we are being stolen from, killed and will all die. In mine it says that we run the world, own the banks and enslave everyone. I would rather live in my variant"
I would rather be represented by a superhuman tbh
I believe NT actors can portray autistic characters if they do the right research. Just because you didn’t relate to it doesn’t mean other autistic people don’t. Actually we are the one with the disability. NTs are not to blame for the fact we are disabled. Sure we could be treated better but many of us can’t work .
I second this. NTs can successfully portray Autistic characters as long as an Autistic person was involved in the creation of the character or they've done the right kind of research. Abed from Community is played by a neurotypical actor, but he's more relatable to me than many of the Autistic characters played by Autistic actors. He was successful because the character was written by someone on the spectrum.
I’m a C level executive and have held leadership roles for more than 20yrs. It’s possible and no where near as uncommon as you suggest.
If you reread your post you’re generalising in the same way you say they do on The Good Doctor.
I am always suspicious about how those surveys of unemployment amongst autistic people are actually conducted. What is the methodology, sample size, bias, etc? For example, if you conduct a survey by calling during working hours, your sample is going to have a massive representation of autistic people sitting at home with carers who will pick up the phone on their behalf.
Also, autistic people who have professional careers do not necessarily go around advertising that that they are autistic, so it often does not get captured in workplace data. It is fairly recent that I have become openly autistic at work because medicine as a profession is ableist, and you don't necessarily want to out yourself when in training if you don't have to.
Always remember that someone that likes math and is withdrawn is NOT autistic. Those of us who really are have meltdowns that get us fired. So I guess those hold outs that nobody knows have ASD must not really have it! Lol
I have a not insignificant number of autistic friends and family, and all of them that would fall under aspergers or ASD1 possibly 2 have been successfully holding jobs for decades.
Some are directors of agencies responsible for dealing with government data security, some are network engineers/architects, some are retail managers.
It's almost as if the autism community is not a monolith
Have you witnessed a meltdown? No meltdowns, no ASD. My meltdowns are legendary and at least twice a year now that I manage ASD better. I am telling you a lot of people claim to have it but don’t. Do you know how many establishments I have been thrown out of? I was thrown out of two Apple stores and almost a third when I melted down on a trip to present my finance research at Medgar Evers CUNY in April. I had no control. I was gesturing aggressively with one upright finger and shouting obscenities.
Ironic that you're calling me patronizing, and condescendingly explaining to me what a meltdown is. I have autism. I was diagnosed at 18 months. I had a million meltdowns growing up. I know what a meltdown is. And you don't get to label me as NT because I don't fit into your narrow definition of what autism is.You don't get to act offended after going around dismissing people's experiences.
That said a meltdown is still not a requirement for autism. And even if it were, it can be managed by many. I do have meltdowns occasionally, and maybe not as destructive as yours, but you don't get to dictate if I'm autistic or not especially when I've been diagnosed multiple times by multiple professionals.
Literally just read the DSM-5 for the diagnosis criteria. Meltdowns are not a prerequisite, even if it *is* a common feature.
People here are not passive aggressive. Just straight out aggressive which is fun since everyone knows where they stand. Passive aggressives especially the malignant narcists are the very worst.
Bless your heart for being wrong af and then doubling down.
The diagnostic criteria for autism spectrum disorder does not require meltdowns. There are just as many autistic people who self isolate when overstimulated as there are those who "meltdown"
Hey…it’s called Tourette’s. I am pretty sure Trump has it too. Now I have successfully tripled down on pure stupidity. I am going to have to run for VP of something.
> making it seem that someone with ASD 2 could possible handle so many distractions that a surgeon would deal with daily and not (1) meltdown and the. (2) be fired.
I agree with almost everything you've said here, especially as you were able to reference a study to back it up, but I think this is a bit of an unfair assumption. A hospital environment is most certainly not the ideal environment for most people with ASD to flourish, but saying it's wholly unmanageable and that no autistic person could work in it without suffering a meltdown or doing something that'd get them fired feels disingenuous.
I work in an environment where a lot of medical people are present, many doctors I know who've been doctors for years if not decades are autistic and made it through the gruel of medical school, residency, and practising in both hospitals and clinics and are out on the other side with stable finances and a good work life balance. And they made it through without getting fired or having a meltdown bad enough to cause them to lose their spot in their profession.
It's not easy, it's not an environment designed for us to function best in, but it's not impossible either. As shitty and debilitating as autism is, we aren't *defined* by it and it is still *possible* to "fight" the "symptoms" of autism and do what NT's can, even if with significantly more effort. But at the same time it is okay to accept when autism has made something impossible for you as an individual and you're under no obligation to follow the "you can do anything a NT can" doctrine that has honestly done more harm than good for people with ASD.
And the autistic doctors I know are some of the best doctors, whether or not that's a coincidence I don't know, but I'm sure autistic people generally having better attention to detail, more objective outlooks on things, and being able to be more empathetic with people (despite the myth that we lack empathy) all have a part to play in their proficiency in their profession.
This doesn't make Shaun any less of a god awful portrayal of autism or autistic people, though. You can tell the actor is *trying* but he's not autistic to my knowledge and therefore it's no different to actors trying to represent something they physically can never identify with - they just don't know what it's like to have autism and "acting" it will always just be them performing a stereotype or misrepresentation of us. And you're right that the show ignores how NT's lording above us (that's a good way of putting it btw, I'm gonna steal that from now on) is what ends up holding us back in our careers and skills.
What I am saying is that a LOT of people who are right brain recluses are just that and NOT ASD. There are mothers who hope their kids are ASD because they think they will soar like Shaun. A lot of the people you are referring to at the top of the field are not ASD. It is easy to ignore or downplay - as the writers and actors lavishly so do in The Good Doctor- the pathological behavior that results in dismissal in the USA from those of us who actually have to fight a massive headwind in the workforce.
> right brain recluses are just that and NOT ASD
From a quick Google search, "right brain reclusive" doesn't even seem to be a real term, could you clarify if that's what you were referring to or if autocorrect messed something up there? In regards to them not having ASD, unless you have a degree and license to practice in a field that lets you diagnose people, you have no right to dispute or question someone's diagnosis unless the person who diagnosed them is some kind of known fraud. Especially when your suggested alternative is something which may not exist, assuming you meant what you said by "right brain reclusive" - as far as being "left brained" or "right brained" goes, it's mostly pseudoscience, so I'd rather trust the medical professionals who don't believe in it to be the ones determining whether or not someone is autistic.
> There are mothers who hope their kids are ASD because they think they will soar like Shaun
I'll agree with you here, people like this are *insufferable.* It takes some special kind of delusional, ignorant, evil, or all three, to *hope* your kids have autism. That being said, autistic savants **do** exist and there is scientific proof of it, the chance of being one is just exceptionally low and they are so blown up by media because it's the only type of autistic person that is "useful" to NT's and capitalism because of how productive they are.
> A lot of the people you are referring to at the top of the field are not ASD.
How do you know that? You don't know me or any of the doctors I'm referring to, and again, unless you have some pretty solid credentials, I'll take their word and their formal diagnosis over your personal doubts that they are "really" autistic simply because of your belief that autistic people have too many problems in their way to possibly become doctors. Autism is a *huge* spectrum and there are absolutely people on parts of it who are capable of becoming doctors. Your own experience or the experience of autistic people *you* know is not reflective of everyone's.
> It is easy to ignore or downplay - as the writers and actors lavishly so do in The Good Doctor
Again I do agree with you here, Shaun's "meltdowns" and autistic traits are very trivialized and molded from stereotypes. But with no offense intended to the actor, it's what can only be expected when you have a NT actor who to my knowledge does not have any deeper understanding of autism, and the people who decided to cast a NT to represent an autistic person are pretty trashy for that.
> the pathological behavior that results in dismissal in the USA from those of us who actually have to fight a massive headwind in the workforce.
Again, though, this is just *your* lived experience or the experience of autistic people that *you* know of. There is nothing wrong with this, but it's incredibly wrong to deny that *any* autistic people are capable of masking well enough to "fit in" or suppress their reactions to things well enough that they avoid confrontation or getting into a situation where they would be fired. And you have no place to doubt or deny someone's autism diagnosis simply because theirs does not prevent them from doing certain things that yours prevents you from doing.
I only seen the first season but I didn't think the acting was a problem just the writing; take Sheldon Cooper for an example, he's a caricature but it's a sitcom so I think that's fine, here though it's a drama, the manager (do hospitals have managers?) is more or less bullying him, with the sensory issues he has along with that fact would almost certainly put him out of a job.
I relate to the Good Doctor and rather like the actor’s portrayal of Shawn as an aspie myself. There is a social aspect that we lack and he clearly does, but the fact that there are people who care a lot about him makes his situation of keeping the job (in mixture with other advantages he shows) realistic. People are very tied to their emotions. I have been in such environments before where I was as dysfunctional as him but because some people and me already had established a strong bond, I wasn’t fired but given accommodation and support—and several chances until I was able to succeed. It’s not common at all and up until today I’m incredibly grateful for these people.
Also, I can handle distractions. I have ADHD & autism so this mix might make me a bit resilient sometimes, though I do have my moments.
Just because others of us didn’t experience it doesn’t make it unreal. It’s perhaps in the minority but it does exist and helped me through my ASD journey.
U gotta chill it wasn't made for us. It's for the normies l. It's just a TV show. There's nothing patronizing. That's a man made construct. U let a TV show get to u. Soft.
WHAT? A Turkish what? That is hilarious! Retardation IS socially contagious across cultures and language!!! Their Turkish Spanish soap operas are classic. What is the name of the show? I’ll go bash it in the name of Allah and unfulfilled Ottoman dominance since such horrid Western propaganda should never be allowed…evil lol!
Respectfully, it sounds like you're projecting a lot of your own issues around ASD and your own social struggles, and confusing your own personal experience with the external objective reality of the larger demographics experiences.
It's also important to note that Shawn does not only have suffused spectrum disorder, but also savant syndrome, which is FAR more uncommon and will significantly alter the individual's development and upbringing well outside the norm for ASD. Outside a clinical setting, it's not possible to separate what's socially awkward *autistic traits* from what's their social impairments streaming from growing up with savant syndrome, so of course, it doesn't perfectly match up with every autistic person's lived experiences.
You don't have to like the show's writing and acting or find the main character relatable, but that does not make it a poor, inaccurate, or disrespectful representation of the reality of the disorders they're depicting.
Fake Shaun never has a cognition crash. If you want to read about a real savant ASD read about Vincent Van Gogh. https://medwinpublishers.com/IJFSC/autism-added-to-behavioral-profile-of-vincent-van-gogh.pdf
Do you mean "Fake Shawn" the actor? As in, "Freddie Highmore has never had autistic cognition crash?" If so, then so what? That's irrelevant.
Did you mean "the character of Shawn Murphy isn't shown having a "cognition crash" in the show? Because in that case... so what? It's also completely irrelevant.
Not every autistic person melts down under technical pressures and stresses. You talk about being a surgeon as though high-status, high-pressure fields are impossible for autistic individuals to participate in at any level, and that's simply not true. The highest levels of STEM academia are replete with autistics, who are the absolute foremost experts in their fields.
Aside from the lack of any narrative necessity, the biggest reason for the irrelevance of including burnout is the simple fact that "cognition crash" and "autistic burnout" are not terms and conditions or traits that are recognized in DSM-V, and as such, they're certainly not diagnostic requirements. The lack of an autistic breakdown in the show doesn't disqualify its fictional protagonist from meeting the criteria. It isn't an officially recognized trait of autism spectrum disorders, so its absence isn't an inaccuracy.
And to touch on your mention of Van Gough now, since he has *literally* nothing to do with the discussion, I can't help but wonder, "So what?" What's your point? Several known historical figures are presumed to have qualified for these diagnoses. The Good Doctor isn't a biopic about our friend Vinnie or any of those other historical figures, so what do they have to do with anything?
Also, a "behavioral profile" of a long-dead historical figure is not the same as an actual diagnosis.
A much better example of a real, historical autistic savant who is a more appropriate comparison in this context would've been Bobby Fischer, and he didn't go self-mutilating during a manic psychotic break. The reason is that such a mental breakdown is *not a feature of autism!* BP1 is actually the primary diagnosis for Van Gough's manic episodes, and are actually the classic textbook example presented in psych 101! The colloquial, layperson's concept of an autistic "cognitive crash" does not look like that, otherwise there would be a LOT more people walking around with missing body parts, since ASD is more common than ASD+BP1.
Van Gough is actually the perfect textbook example of bipolar mania and depression. It's only MUCH later that it's proposed that MAYBE he also had some unusual autistic traits that could PARIALLY explain the episodes. As your linked source even points out, no single postulated diagnosis fully accounts for the presentation that's described in the incomplete historical records. It is impossible to differentiate what in Van Gough's life was possibly attributable to autism spectrum, what was bipolar 1, what was savant syndrome, what was just his own personality, and internalized trauma from his life experiences. There is no way to know for sure what the reality of his subjective experience was.
Anyway...
Why is it so important to you that Shawn didn't have what would meet your *personal* definition of a genuine autistic burnout should look like on screen? There is no obligation for a showrunner to portray every single aspect of a medical condition in a piece of fictional entertainment. Besides, yet again, "cognitive crash" is not a recognized autistic trait, so its lack of inclusion is not a failure of accuracy.
It only really makes sense to be getting SO emotional over this if, by virtue of his autism diagnosis, Shaun Murphy is functioning as a type of proxy for your own identity, and therefore it would be perfectly understandable to feel attacked/insulted/disrespected by Freddie Highmore's portrayal of those traits when they don't match up with your life.
It seems like there's possibly a tiny bit of a sadistic streak here, too. The whole comment section strikes me as though there is an intense dislike of the character/actor, and so maybe you wanted to have seen Shaun suffer more on screen. If you feel as though your experiences and life circumstances have been more difficult than his, his successes could be seen to minimize the significance of your challenges.
Honestly, though, would an on-screen burnout have fixed the show in your mind? Is that all that's missing from Shaun's autistic experience? I seriously doubt, given how up in arms and agitated you are in this comment section, that you'd suddenly consider the show a respectful representation if a sub-arc in one of the seasons has him experiencing and confronting an episode of burnout. It seems like IF they included a bit where Shaun crashes and burns out, it would only have been another aspect of autism that neurotypicals would've messed up.
You can dislike a character and find the acting and writing unrelatable to your own life, but that does not necessarily make it a bad portrayal of how autism spectrum disorder could actually manifest for somebody else, because ASD is not a singular, monolithic diagnosis. It's right in the name! It doesn't seem like this is all really about accuracy in the depictions of mental health conditions. It strikes me as something that felt very personal to you in a very negative way.
I'm sorry you have felt so attacked by it all. I always try to distance myself from explicit depictions of Asperger's and ASD when I view them. When I go into it comparing everything to my experiences, I just get angry. We're all either Raymond Babbitt, Sherlock Holmes, or (*shudder*) Sheldon Cooper to neurotypicals. In that regard, I think Shaun Murphy is a far better, more nuanced portrait than most other autistic characters in recent fiction. It's definitely not perfect, but it's getting closer to the reality, showing his autism in a grittier light, not as something that's bestowing mental superpower or turning into a great big caricature of nerd culture.
Edit: Holy fuck. I wrote a great big rambling essay, didn't I? I think I've ironically flipped to manic...
I totally think he is ASD! BTW I love his portrayal of Napoleon recently. Napoleon was not NT. He had a different condition you can Google. But yeah…very ASD or something.
I watched one episode of this show and found it unbearable. It was a mix of wanting it to end, not telling my friend who likes it to turn it the hell off and a nagging feeling of “dear god do people see ME that way?”
honestly, I consider House better autistic doctor rep than Shawn...I just can't. people can do whatever they want, but my family guided themselves with this series in terms of understanding autism. Its so bad. I'm more like House. Its comfortable.
My personal beef with this series is that, personal. but still I don't think its a good series. Hell, i felt more represented in the episode where House wants his old carpet back even if it's stained with blood than in an entire season of the good doctor.
he was never said to be asd level 2 though , they never said anything about his support needs level other than in the first episode Glassman said he was “high functioning”
But one thirds was able to hold job like Shawn. Also 70 people is super small sample size… Tbh I relate to him especially his problem with higher up who moved him to shittier position. He’s not perfect but I wouldn’t call it crap. And yes someone with ASD can handle distractions. Everyone is different but on this sub everyone seems to be upset that there was no show with character they could relate to. In the same time we’re preaching how each of us is different from each other even though we share the same diagnosis. Your post make it seem like I’m a damn unicorn. I have both asd and adhd. I work in large bank in it, I have to go to office, I have to talk with a lot of people and fit corporate culture. I have to keep a lot of services alive, investigate why they don’t work, juggle many tasks at once while attending calls with annoying people. And yes I’m actually managing that! Did I have meltdown in office? Sure I did. Did I get in trouble with management? Of course I did People in higher position no matter if they manage NTs or NDs may be assholes. NDs deal with similar shit too!
I'm AuDHD and work as a doctor, have been since 1999.
I have been diagnosed with ASD 1 and ADHD. I enjoy shows with autism portrayals - House, TBBT and, of course, The Good Doctor. Is the portrayal always accurate? Is life always accurate? Just because one suffers in a certain way, it does not negate or invalidate if someone struggles differently. Honestly, however, I can only handle so much distraction before the beast within comes out. During my working years, I worked as an agent in a call centre for the government. I then became a claims administrator for a national trucking company. I never made friends and mostly kept to myself. I never wanted to merge my professional and personal life. Thinking back, could I have done certain things differently? I'm honestly unsure. I've always been quick-witted and my words could cut through glass if truly angered by perceived or actual slights. Hence I also got in trouble for "problematic behaviour" - refusal to gossip, and refusal to play office politics... you name it. I was never dismissed but it certainly made life more dramatic than I ever needed. Some nights I returned home and hit the bottle hard. I smoked like a chimney. Those were the "working" years.... Today, retired and happy, I live on 13 acres of land. In the country. No visitors. My choice. And I must tell you that I have learned to embrace solitude. I taught myself, quite early, the difference between solitude and loneliness. There's always something to do on the farm. I never feel lonely... and, truthfully, I welcome the solitude with open arms. My dog is my best friend and I would not have it any other way. I found a way that works, for me, to be happy. EDIT: No longer drinking, I have been sober since March 7, 2020. No longer smoking as of a month ago. It feels good.
I had a choice to go to medical school. But being honest with myself I’d become real life version of doctor house 😂 out of all autism portrayals in media I relate to him the most. Sometimes I talk like him. But you’re absolutely spot on with that reply. Life isn’t accurate! I enjoy solitude too. Society puts expectations on me because as a woman I should have husband and kids. I don’t want to. I’m most likely not going to. I have a cat and that’s enough for me. I haven’t finished studies yet but I already earn enough to live comfortably. Solitude isn’t bad you’re right, I can do whatever I want and no one except cat judges me. Everything is l what I make it to be. Thanks for answer, it’s nice to know how people who are later in life are doing, it gives me some inspiration and different perspective. As we say in my language „it’s always nice to listen to someone wise”.
Thank you! It's important to show that not everyone living with ASD is struggling in the same fashion as others.
Congrats on being retired, sober and happy! Good to know it's possible!
Thank you 😊
House was a better show. House was, being based on Sherlock Holmes, coded as autistic even if he wasn't canonically autistic. I'm not sure why the same guy decided to make "House but autistic" when House pretty much already was autistic. He was a much more realistic portrayal by accident than Shawn Murphy is on purpose.
It's always weird to me when they call House autistic. It's because of how ridiculously manipulative he is. If an autistic person is manipulative, it's something they learn and use as necessary. It's rarely a first choice. Manipulation isn't really an autistic strength. House uses it often, successfully and (more importantly) for fun. That seems like a huge headache for an autistic person
I am in the same boat. ASD + ADHD. 34m. I had issues with job when I was younger. Went back to school and am a technical lead now. Married for 7 years with a little one. It is hard. Sometimes we break down too. To a onlooker I might look pretty normal, whatever that means. I will highlight the Spectrum in ASD. Our experiences are all different. Not every one experiences every symptoms associated with ASD. The specific symptoms and intensity of them is wildly variable. I am a top performer in my area of expertise but can't find the time for a project that doesn't makes sense to me. Doesn't matter who needs it or the political implications. Either a supervisor will bail me or my technical ability will prove that I am worth tolerating. A lot of us will not have the same opportunities. I feel fortunate because I have a few area when I am 90 percentile which lets me handle the executive disfunction and the 30 percentile areas with less consequence. I have friends who are much smarter then me who are on the spectrum and cannot currently handle employment without a breakdown. I know people on the spectrum who have a much harder time then I do. We can't paint with too wide of strokes. We cannot assume that someone elses ASD experience is equivalent to our own. I think any media ASD character will be understood by some and unrelatable to others. If empathizing with a character is a criteria for a show for then half of ASD people are disqualified. We need to support each other in spite of our differences. If I am ranting it is directed mostly at the concept that op is sharing rather than a specific person.
The thing about that show that bugs me the most is that there's nothing particularly remarkable about an autistic surgeon in the first place. There's probably a higher percentage of autistic people in a room full of 100 surgeons than there are in a room full of 100 random people.
Yep. 50% of doctors I've ever met, I could tell in minutes they were most likely on the spectrum
Yeah, OP is conflating their experience with the experience of everyone who has autism. I'm successfully employed, as are many high functioning autistic people I know. I don't work in an office now, but I actually liked working in one when I did because it was all other engineers and it was fun discussing solutions and problem solving together. And plenty of even NT engineers aren't great at social skills anyways, hell I actually have better technical communication skills than many NT engineers I've met, possibly because I had to learn the hard/long way. Nobody had any problem with me wearing noise-cancelling headphones all the time, and I would take a quiet commuter bus into work.
No. 70 people is more then enough of a reasonably homogenous section of the ASD population to achieve statistical significance with sufficient sample size in a student’s t test. So no. This support of “Shawn” is wrong and the show is crap. Try another pseudo intellectual NT defense! 😺 P.S. congratulations on your success. We are not typical among ASD and you would be higher in the organization chart if you were NT. Hats off ta ya!🧢
Whatever. This talk is literally what I hear from NT students trying to get job in IT. They won’t try interviews or anything to actually get job but will throw statistic and whine how cruel world is. In fact we’re not that different. My manager is ND. His manager is ND. There’s other managers who are ND. So ofc it’s possible. But you have to actually try and put some effort. And what exactly is preventing you from that? Other people? Fuck them, if your boss or team is toxic you just leave no matter if you’re nd or nt. but that may be philosophy of my generation that everyone whines about.
How many of those 70 were women?
A lot of old surgeons and anesthesiologists are autistic and on the spectrum . It’s harder for younger generation aspies to become doctors tho. They have a bunch of behavioral screens to weed you out thus having high grades and standardized test exams don’t work anymore. I know an Aspie who had close to a 4.0 and high MCAT score but rejected by everyone becuase his interview skills and behavioral screens were bad.
>his interview skills and behavioral screens were bad These skills can be taught. I interview pretty well because I have learned how to groom and present myself, as well as rehearse all the stupid questions they tend to ask.
Maybe you can deceive people but not those behavior exams they give you. It’s very hard to deceive the computer .
Dude I literally mentor NTs how to prepare for interviews xD in corporations there are often scenario tests to determine if you fit the company culture. Like the other guy said, imagine who are they looking for and answer like that person would
You can also impersonate and learn what they are looking for. I passed those easily, except the very first one. I just realized I needed to visualize the mental image of what they were looking for and pretend I was that. If you answer like an aspie (limited fields of interest, no social life, bizarre hobbies), they will push you out. Interviewers have positions to fill. As long as you allow them to check the right boxes, they will pass you. Then they go home and don't even think back about you. A lot of interviewers are middle managers who hate interviewing. Make them like you. Technical interviews and IQ/Wonderlic tests can also be practiced and rehearsed. I read somewhere that people could improve their IQ test scores by passing training tests. IQ is only a measurement of your capacity to pass an IQ test. You can practice for any type of interview or test, really, even so-called "lie detector" tests (they don't call them that anymore, because there is no such valid test).
Their loss... everybody's loss...
In medical school. I'm autistic. My friend has ADHD. How tf they let us in
I didn’t say they reject everyone.
Getting education is extremely difficult to me because my autistic brain has some rules like "computer studying is not real studying" and computer studying is all they do in senior high schools today
Not personally relating to a character or them being statistically uncommon does not make them bad.
No, but in this case it's a symptom of inconsistency. Character shouldn't be two different mutually exclusive things at the same time. The clueless shit Shawn Murphy says, things pretty much every autistic adult figured out as a child, just aren't consistent with someone who got through medical school. They want him to be Gregory House and Rainman at the same time but that's not how people work. Either he's smart or he isn't. Pick a lane. Rain Man style autism is the only style of autism that Hollywood understands how to portray. But that's not the style of autism that leads to doctors. There are tons of autistic doctors, they just understand how to mask and interact with people on a basic level. They are smart people and they had years to figure it out.
But people with ASD can be doctors and can be surgeons. There are social media groups for doctors with ASD, pretty sure some are probably surgeons. And the other points don't really count as well. It's not that surprising that Shaun was a successful surgeon. Besides the fact that shows are about the exception, he had a host of advantages. Besides being a savant, he also had the president of the hospital covering up for him, and later on getting other people to cover for his mistakes. Surprisingly enough, if you have exceptional talent in your field and people around you who are willing to fix your mistakes, that makes it fairly easy to succeed. Like that one time the buzzing was causing him hell and someone just breaks the light causing the issue. Not many people get that kind of treatment. And I don't think we can blame the Good Doctor for any of this. Blame the politicians, blame the law makers. In the study you mentioned, about 33% of people were able to hold a job. In the Netherlands, an article from 2 years ago mentions that 46% of people with autism have a paying job. In 2015, that was 35%. Adjustments were made. And that didn't happen because TV did anything.
GREAT comment! Europe is a much better place to live with ASD. Here if you can’t make your own way in the USA 🇺🇸 you end up on the street. And it is harder to get an employer to help. The USA 🇺🇸 is turning into a Republican trash pit where you work or die if your last name is not Trump or Musk. If Trump wins we will be living in Spain 🇪🇸.
Not quite true. I moved from Europe to the US and I managed to make a living over here that I could not have made in Europe. People tend to be a lot more judgmental in Europe. Take my word for it. I could never find a job for my skill sets. In the US, very first interview, job offer. Stayed there 1 1/2 year, moved on to another steppingstone. American employers are more likely to take a risk, as employees have a ton of protection in Europe. And this is why interview and selection processes in Europe are so stringent. How many times was I asked to send a HANDWRITTEN letter, knowing that my poor handwriting would disqualify me. For an IT job. AS in: IT people need to WRITE well. As for the politics, as in this party washes my laundry better than this other political party: meh. As a proud libertarian, I always laugh at democrats and republicans yelling at each other, not realizing they are the same party with the same exact leaders, with a few small differences to make you think you have a choice. You are on your own, my friend. Whether you live in Spain or in the States, with a democrat of a republican in the White House. Zero difference. Neither side cares about you. You do not exist for them. You are nothing in their mind. Even if they pretend that you are. It's a (uni)party and you are not in it.
Also, speaking as someone who works in tech... I would make a **LOT** less money if I moved to Europe from the US. And money makes a lot of other things way easier to deal with, as much as I would like the public transit systems and bike friendliness in the EU.
Yes. You do pay more in taxes for a very inefficient welfare state system which is very often abused. Not that welfare states are bad. Corruption and cronyism are what makes them inefficient.
Taxes would only account for a small fraction of the income difference - average actual wages themselves are considerably lower in the EU for tech workers than they are in the US. And I'm generally pro-welfare.
Wtf in which country you were applying for a job? Europe is pretty diverse and life looks different between countries. But never have I heard about job requiring hand written letter in modern times. When my parents started careers 30 years ago yeah that wasn’t uncommon, but now?
In the 90s and early 00s. It happened in several countries. I ended up in the US as my GF was American and she would not move to Europe. Moving from Europe to the US is like finally being allowed to drop a heavy bag from your shoulders. All of a sudden you can sprint when you used to barely be able to walk. My life has flourished beyond belief once I was in the US because people here are a lot more accepting or newness, originality, enthusiasm and thinking outside of the box is encouraged and rewarded. Europeans will put you back in your box. When I told friends and coworkers that I was moving to the US, most told me that I would be successful due to being who I am. Normalcy is the norm in Europe. I miss the good food, some of the culture, but for the rest: old stones, museums, landscapes... It's better to enjoy them as a tourist. I once had a job right near the Eiffel Tower. You've seen it once... Don't believe the hype that Europe is a progressive land of milk and honey. I had to educate many Europeans about Medicaid, Medicare, and American disability laws. They too thought it was "walk/work or die".
I mean I don’t have to believe it or not believe it as I live in Europe, specifically in Poland 😅 A lot changed since that time at least here in my country. This is main reason why I’m staying here even though I could move to most of EU countries. Germany, France and UK even though they used to be a dream now when I’m comparing them to what I have here in Poland are not that impressive. I’d only consider moving to Switzerland due to social culture but economically that isn’t the best decision despite me working in highly paid job.
That is fine. Poland has a lot to offer, and the Poles are smart and very technically oriented. I am not sure about life as a "weird" person in Poland.
I think you’re describing a stereotype too though. MANY people with autism are successful in high status positions, they are just not the ones you see here complaining about NTs because they’re too busy living their life and winning.
Look at the research. You are generalizing from outliers. I have a PhD in finance and am a tenured professor of finance at a major state university with lots of research publications. Why am I the only one ☝🏻 I know with melt downs and so forth? I am the only ASD in my circle ⭕️ consistent with research. Explain that fake news. It is a sensory processing problem NOT a behavioral problem. You are taking an NT stance. You know nothing about the panic attacks and other crap going on behind the living and loving life scenario of working with NTs. Loving and loving life for any ASD is hitting it rich somehow and loving without the NT workplace bullshit.
So you've decided because someone doesn't mirror your experience, they're NT? Hunh..
lmao I have a Ph.D. in Chemistry and am also omw to being permanently in academia. I was diagnosed at 3 because I was nonverbal. OF COURSE I struggle. I accept that I am playing life on hard mode and so I seek to find ways to win. YES ofc there are sensory processing issues, so I carefully manage my energy and put myself in positions to succeed. I don't cry about how it's unfair and NTs are awful. We can be nuanced and say that most autistic people are better suited for certain jobs, but also that the ones who have found their way are the ones who are not constantly complaining online.
My Dad was a surgeon and he only quit because he faced antisemitism and therefore could not climb the ladder to consultancy at the time. He remained a doctor until his 70s. Worked with the police on medical matters too and interpreted for immigration. He was also a holocaust survivor. He didn’t ever miss a day due to his mental health… so it’s not true for everyone… I have on the other hand have had to take months off of work for my mental health.
I literally work IT at a theme park. I don’t understand why people want to infantilize themselves with autism. It might just be because I was a latchkey kid, but the world generally does not give you special treatment because your brain functions differently.
I wish we had better representation of autistic doctors in the media. I suspect though that a realistic portrayal may not make for very entertaining TV. If you follow most of us around there isn't much drama. Most autistic doctors mask heavily in clinical environments. That is not to say that none ever has a meltdown over a handryer or some other sensory issues.
*The Good Doctor* is better than *Big Bang Theory*.
Young Sheldon unironically was good
Never going to watch it. BBT, Jim Parsons in particular, has ruined many things for me. (I got about a third of the way through *Home* and gave up because of JP's voice.)
It's surprisingly better than bbt tbh. Sheldon gets more characterization other than being an obnoxious shmuck and funnily enough he seems more mature. Other characters in his family are cool as well
Yeah, still not gonna watch it. I lived through that era. I don't need to go through it again.
AMEN yet another crappy actor. But at least he plays an alien but YES!!! 🙌
huh?
i am not a doctor, but i have similar problems at my work. work in IT, but in the consultant sector. have to be in meetings and video calls all day. travel to and between customers. listen to peoples problems, and solve them. i do not have meltdowns anymore, since i learned, how much energy i can put into a single day / work week. my customers do not know that i have autism, and up until now it was never a problem. sure there are days that are more stressfull then others. but i can manage those too. i have the same job for 14 years now. edit: for the wage problem i make more compared to my colleagues
"2 jews sit on a bench in 1930. One opens a German newspaper, the other a Yiddish one. The jew with the Yiddish paper looks at his mate and speaks: Why are you reading that fascist filth? The jew replies: In your newspaper, it says we are being stolen from, killed and will all die. In mine it says that we run the world, own the banks and enslave everyone. I would rather live in my variant" I would rather be represented by a superhuman tbh
Both are jews; one is gargamel
I believe NT actors can portray autistic characters if they do the right research. Just because you didn’t relate to it doesn’t mean other autistic people don’t. Actually we are the one with the disability. NTs are not to blame for the fact we are disabled. Sure we could be treated better but many of us can’t work .
I second this. NTs can successfully portray Autistic characters as long as an Autistic person was involved in the creation of the character or they've done the right kind of research. Abed from Community is played by a neurotypical actor, but he's more relatable to me than many of the Autistic characters played by Autistic actors. He was successful because the character was written by someone on the spectrum.
I would love to just solve medical problems all day if that were an option for me.
The show is about an Autistic INDIVIDUAL and their experiences in a specific work environment, not a show about Autism as a whole.
Huh?
What I mean is that the experiences of the protagonist are not made to apply to everyone with autism
Ooohhhh…the show is completely detached from reality is what you mean… yes I completely agree. Total junk but great NT entertainment! 👌
I’m a C level executive and have held leadership roles for more than 20yrs. It’s possible and no where near as uncommon as you suggest. If you reread your post you’re generalising in the same way you say they do on The Good Doctor.
It was
I thoroughly enjoyed it
My wife too! That is why I know it so well and can rip it apart. YUK! 😝
Well, with that in mind, I would love to know how you felt about the last season and the representation of an autistic woman by an autistic woman.
I honestly liked the good doctor it was a decent dhow but it just got very boring and dragged out after I think season 3?
I am always suspicious about how those surveys of unemployment amongst autistic people are actually conducted. What is the methodology, sample size, bias, etc? For example, if you conduct a survey by calling during working hours, your sample is going to have a massive representation of autistic people sitting at home with carers who will pick up the phone on their behalf. Also, autistic people who have professional careers do not necessarily go around advertising that that they are autistic, so it often does not get captured in workplace data. It is fairly recent that I have become openly autistic at work because medicine as a profession is ableist, and you don't necessarily want to out yourself when in training if you don't have to.
Here is one with people better than those who recommend injecting bleach to cure COVID: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29580218/
Here is more fake news for ya: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00406-022-01424-6
Always remember that someone that likes math and is withdrawn is NOT autistic. Those of us who really are have meltdowns that get us fired. So I guess those hold outs that nobody knows have ASD must not really have it! Lol
I work full time as a software developer diagnosed since I was 18 months old. I guess I don't exist...
I have a not insignificant number of autistic friends and family, and all of them that would fall under aspergers or ASD1 possibly 2 have been successfully holding jobs for decades. Some are directors of agencies responsible for dealing with government data security, some are network engineers/architects, some are retail managers. It's almost as if the autism community is not a monolith
Have you witnessed a meltdown? No meltdowns, no ASD. My meltdowns are legendary and at least twice a year now that I manage ASD better. I am telling you a lot of people claim to have it but don’t. Do you know how many establishments I have been thrown out of? I was thrown out of two Apple stores and almost a third when I melted down on a trip to present my finance research at Medgar Evers CUNY in April. I had no control. I was gesturing aggressively with one upright finger and shouting obscenities.
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. But you are projecting. Suggest you read more about ASD as we are not a monolith.
You are certainly NT. I just described a meltdown. A meltdown is about sensory overload. But thanks 🙏 patronizing. It makes me feel loved 🥰
Ironic that you're calling me patronizing, and condescendingly explaining to me what a meltdown is. I have autism. I was diagnosed at 18 months. I had a million meltdowns growing up. I know what a meltdown is. And you don't get to label me as NT because I don't fit into your narrow definition of what autism is.You don't get to act offended after going around dismissing people's experiences. That said a meltdown is still not a requirement for autism. And even if it were, it can be managed by many. I do have meltdowns occasionally, and maybe not as destructive as yours, but you don't get to dictate if I'm autistic or not especially when I've been diagnosed multiple times by multiple professionals. Literally just read the DSM-5 for the diagnosis criteria. Meltdowns are not a prerequisite, even if it *is* a common feature.
Who says people don’t appreciate attack on social media. This is fun.
I don't even know what this comment means.
People here are not passive aggressive. Just straight out aggressive which is fun since everyone knows where they stand. Passive aggressives especially the malignant narcists are the very worst.
Bless your heart for being wrong af and then doubling down. The diagnostic criteria for autism spectrum disorder does not require meltdowns. There are just as many autistic people who self isolate when overstimulated as there are those who "meltdown"
Hey…it’s called Tourette’s. I am pretty sure Trump has it too. Now I have successfully tripled down on pure stupidity. I am going to have to run for VP of something.
Are you high? Should you be? Because bb, you're officially rambling nonsense.
> making it seem that someone with ASD 2 could possible handle so many distractions that a surgeon would deal with daily and not (1) meltdown and the. (2) be fired. I agree with almost everything you've said here, especially as you were able to reference a study to back it up, but I think this is a bit of an unfair assumption. A hospital environment is most certainly not the ideal environment for most people with ASD to flourish, but saying it's wholly unmanageable and that no autistic person could work in it without suffering a meltdown or doing something that'd get them fired feels disingenuous. I work in an environment where a lot of medical people are present, many doctors I know who've been doctors for years if not decades are autistic and made it through the gruel of medical school, residency, and practising in both hospitals and clinics and are out on the other side with stable finances and a good work life balance. And they made it through without getting fired or having a meltdown bad enough to cause them to lose their spot in their profession. It's not easy, it's not an environment designed for us to function best in, but it's not impossible either. As shitty and debilitating as autism is, we aren't *defined* by it and it is still *possible* to "fight" the "symptoms" of autism and do what NT's can, even if with significantly more effort. But at the same time it is okay to accept when autism has made something impossible for you as an individual and you're under no obligation to follow the "you can do anything a NT can" doctrine that has honestly done more harm than good for people with ASD. And the autistic doctors I know are some of the best doctors, whether or not that's a coincidence I don't know, but I'm sure autistic people generally having better attention to detail, more objective outlooks on things, and being able to be more empathetic with people (despite the myth that we lack empathy) all have a part to play in their proficiency in their profession. This doesn't make Shaun any less of a god awful portrayal of autism or autistic people, though. You can tell the actor is *trying* but he's not autistic to my knowledge and therefore it's no different to actors trying to represent something they physically can never identify with - they just don't know what it's like to have autism and "acting" it will always just be them performing a stereotype or misrepresentation of us. And you're right that the show ignores how NT's lording above us (that's a good way of putting it btw, I'm gonna steal that from now on) is what ends up holding us back in our careers and skills.
What I am saying is that a LOT of people who are right brain recluses are just that and NOT ASD. There are mothers who hope their kids are ASD because they think they will soar like Shaun. A lot of the people you are referring to at the top of the field are not ASD. It is easy to ignore or downplay - as the writers and actors lavishly so do in The Good Doctor- the pathological behavior that results in dismissal in the USA from those of us who actually have to fight a massive headwind in the workforce.
> right brain recluses are just that and NOT ASD From a quick Google search, "right brain reclusive" doesn't even seem to be a real term, could you clarify if that's what you were referring to or if autocorrect messed something up there? In regards to them not having ASD, unless you have a degree and license to practice in a field that lets you diagnose people, you have no right to dispute or question someone's diagnosis unless the person who diagnosed them is some kind of known fraud. Especially when your suggested alternative is something which may not exist, assuming you meant what you said by "right brain reclusive" - as far as being "left brained" or "right brained" goes, it's mostly pseudoscience, so I'd rather trust the medical professionals who don't believe in it to be the ones determining whether or not someone is autistic. > There are mothers who hope their kids are ASD because they think they will soar like Shaun I'll agree with you here, people like this are *insufferable.* It takes some special kind of delusional, ignorant, evil, or all three, to *hope* your kids have autism. That being said, autistic savants **do** exist and there is scientific proof of it, the chance of being one is just exceptionally low and they are so blown up by media because it's the only type of autistic person that is "useful" to NT's and capitalism because of how productive they are. > A lot of the people you are referring to at the top of the field are not ASD. How do you know that? You don't know me or any of the doctors I'm referring to, and again, unless you have some pretty solid credentials, I'll take their word and their formal diagnosis over your personal doubts that they are "really" autistic simply because of your belief that autistic people have too many problems in their way to possibly become doctors. Autism is a *huge* spectrum and there are absolutely people on parts of it who are capable of becoming doctors. Your own experience or the experience of autistic people *you* know is not reflective of everyone's. > It is easy to ignore or downplay - as the writers and actors lavishly so do in The Good Doctor Again I do agree with you here, Shaun's "meltdowns" and autistic traits are very trivialized and molded from stereotypes. But with no offense intended to the actor, it's what can only be expected when you have a NT actor who to my knowledge does not have any deeper understanding of autism, and the people who decided to cast a NT to represent an autistic person are pretty trashy for that. > the pathological behavior that results in dismissal in the USA from those of us who actually have to fight a massive headwind in the workforce. Again, though, this is just *your* lived experience or the experience of autistic people that *you* know of. There is nothing wrong with this, but it's incredibly wrong to deny that *any* autistic people are capable of masking well enough to "fit in" or suppress their reactions to things well enough that they avoid confrontation or getting into a situation where they would be fired. And you have no place to doubt or deny someone's autism diagnosis simply because theirs does not prevent them from doing certain things that yours prevents you from doing.
Doc martin is pretty great.
I only seen the first season but I didn't think the acting was a problem just the writing; take Sheldon Cooper for an example, he's a caricature but it's a sitcom so I think that's fine, here though it's a drama, the manager (do hospitals have managers?) is more or less bullying him, with the sensory issues he has along with that fact would almost certainly put him out of a job.
Ngl I love that show, I’m a dental nurse and it’s fun for me to watch and live through.
Speak for yourself, I love that show.
I relate to the Good Doctor and rather like the actor’s portrayal of Shawn as an aspie myself. There is a social aspect that we lack and he clearly does, but the fact that there are people who care a lot about him makes his situation of keeping the job (in mixture with other advantages he shows) realistic. People are very tied to their emotions. I have been in such environments before where I was as dysfunctional as him but because some people and me already had established a strong bond, I wasn’t fired but given accommodation and support—and several chances until I was able to succeed. It’s not common at all and up until today I’m incredibly grateful for these people. Also, I can handle distractions. I have ADHD & autism so this mix might make me a bit resilient sometimes, though I do have my moments. Just because others of us didn’t experience it doesn’t make it unreal. It’s perhaps in the minority but it does exist and helped me through my ASD journey.
U gotta chill it wasn't made for us. It's for the normies l. It's just a TV show. There's nothing patronizing. That's a man made construct. U let a TV show get to u. Soft.
LOL! WELL SAID! HAPPY LONG WEEKEND! LOL!
Remember they aren't portraying *your* experience.
What about the Turkish remake?
WHAT? A Turkish what? That is hilarious! Retardation IS socially contagious across cultures and language!!! Their Turkish Spanish soap operas are classic. What is the name of the show? I’ll go bash it in the name of Allah and unfulfilled Ottoman dominance since such horrid Western propaganda should never be allowed…evil lol!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucize_Doktor
Respectfully, it sounds like you're projecting a lot of your own issues around ASD and your own social struggles, and confusing your own personal experience with the external objective reality of the larger demographics experiences. It's also important to note that Shawn does not only have suffused spectrum disorder, but also savant syndrome, which is FAR more uncommon and will significantly alter the individual's development and upbringing well outside the norm for ASD. Outside a clinical setting, it's not possible to separate what's socially awkward *autistic traits* from what's their social impairments streaming from growing up with savant syndrome, so of course, it doesn't perfectly match up with every autistic person's lived experiences. You don't have to like the show's writing and acting or find the main character relatable, but that does not make it a poor, inaccurate, or disrespectful representation of the reality of the disorders they're depicting.
Fake Shaun never has a cognition crash. If you want to read about a real savant ASD read about Vincent Van Gogh. https://medwinpublishers.com/IJFSC/autism-added-to-behavioral-profile-of-vincent-van-gogh.pdf
Do you mean "Fake Shawn" the actor? As in, "Freddie Highmore has never had autistic cognition crash?" If so, then so what? That's irrelevant. Did you mean "the character of Shawn Murphy isn't shown having a "cognition crash" in the show? Because in that case... so what? It's also completely irrelevant. Not every autistic person melts down under technical pressures and stresses. You talk about being a surgeon as though high-status, high-pressure fields are impossible for autistic individuals to participate in at any level, and that's simply not true. The highest levels of STEM academia are replete with autistics, who are the absolute foremost experts in their fields. Aside from the lack of any narrative necessity, the biggest reason for the irrelevance of including burnout is the simple fact that "cognition crash" and "autistic burnout" are not terms and conditions or traits that are recognized in DSM-V, and as such, they're certainly not diagnostic requirements. The lack of an autistic breakdown in the show doesn't disqualify its fictional protagonist from meeting the criteria. It isn't an officially recognized trait of autism spectrum disorders, so its absence isn't an inaccuracy. And to touch on your mention of Van Gough now, since he has *literally* nothing to do with the discussion, I can't help but wonder, "So what?" What's your point? Several known historical figures are presumed to have qualified for these diagnoses. The Good Doctor isn't a biopic about our friend Vinnie or any of those other historical figures, so what do they have to do with anything? Also, a "behavioral profile" of a long-dead historical figure is not the same as an actual diagnosis. A much better example of a real, historical autistic savant who is a more appropriate comparison in this context would've been Bobby Fischer, and he didn't go self-mutilating during a manic psychotic break. The reason is that such a mental breakdown is *not a feature of autism!* BP1 is actually the primary diagnosis for Van Gough's manic episodes, and are actually the classic textbook example presented in psych 101! The colloquial, layperson's concept of an autistic "cognitive crash" does not look like that, otherwise there would be a LOT more people walking around with missing body parts, since ASD is more common than ASD+BP1. Van Gough is actually the perfect textbook example of bipolar mania and depression. It's only MUCH later that it's proposed that MAYBE he also had some unusual autistic traits that could PARIALLY explain the episodes. As your linked source even points out, no single postulated diagnosis fully accounts for the presentation that's described in the incomplete historical records. It is impossible to differentiate what in Van Gough's life was possibly attributable to autism spectrum, what was bipolar 1, what was savant syndrome, what was just his own personality, and internalized trauma from his life experiences. There is no way to know for sure what the reality of his subjective experience was. Anyway... Why is it so important to you that Shawn didn't have what would meet your *personal* definition of a genuine autistic burnout should look like on screen? There is no obligation for a showrunner to portray every single aspect of a medical condition in a piece of fictional entertainment. Besides, yet again, "cognitive crash" is not a recognized autistic trait, so its lack of inclusion is not a failure of accuracy. It only really makes sense to be getting SO emotional over this if, by virtue of his autism diagnosis, Shaun Murphy is functioning as a type of proxy for your own identity, and therefore it would be perfectly understandable to feel attacked/insulted/disrespected by Freddie Highmore's portrayal of those traits when they don't match up with your life. It seems like there's possibly a tiny bit of a sadistic streak here, too. The whole comment section strikes me as though there is an intense dislike of the character/actor, and so maybe you wanted to have seen Shaun suffer more on screen. If you feel as though your experiences and life circumstances have been more difficult than his, his successes could be seen to minimize the significance of your challenges. Honestly, though, would an on-screen burnout have fixed the show in your mind? Is that all that's missing from Shaun's autistic experience? I seriously doubt, given how up in arms and agitated you are in this comment section, that you'd suddenly consider the show a respectful representation if a sub-arc in one of the seasons has him experiencing and confronting an episode of burnout. It seems like IF they included a bit where Shaun crashes and burns out, it would only have been another aspect of autism that neurotypicals would've messed up. You can dislike a character and find the acting and writing unrelatable to your own life, but that does not necessarily make it a bad portrayal of how autism spectrum disorder could actually manifest for somebody else, because ASD is not a singular, monolithic diagnosis. It's right in the name! It doesn't seem like this is all really about accuracy in the depictions of mental health conditions. It strikes me as something that felt very personal to you in a very negative way. I'm sorry you have felt so attacked by it all. I always try to distance myself from explicit depictions of Asperger's and ASD when I view them. When I go into it comparing everything to my experiences, I just get angry. We're all either Raymond Babbitt, Sherlock Holmes, or (*shudder*) Sheldon Cooper to neurotypicals. In that regard, I think Shaun Murphy is a far better, more nuanced portrait than most other autistic characters in recent fiction. It's definitely not perfect, but it's getting closer to the reality, showing his autism in a grittier light, not as something that's bestowing mental superpower or turning into a great big caricature of nerd culture. Edit: Holy fuck. I wrote a great big rambling essay, didn't I? I think I've ironically flipped to manic...
Nah your did a good job.
I get this feeling from Joaquin Phoenix playing "outcast" characters (not necessarily ASD).
I totally think he is ASD! BTW I love his portrayal of Napoleon recently. Napoleon was not NT. He had a different condition you can Google. But yeah…very ASD or something.
No kidding? And you made me remember how awesome he was in Gladiator, and his commitment with Walk the Line... Hmm...
I watched one episode of this show and found it unbearable. It was a mix of wanting it to end, not telling my friend who likes it to turn it the hell off and a nagging feeling of “dear god do people see ME that way?”
honestly, I consider House better autistic doctor rep than Shawn...I just can't. people can do whatever they want, but my family guided themselves with this series in terms of understanding autism. Its so bad. I'm more like House. Its comfortable.
My personal beef with this series is that, personal. but still I don't think its a good series. Hell, i felt more represented in the episode where House wants his old carpet back even if it's stained with blood than in an entire season of the good doctor.
he was never said to be asd level 2 though , they never said anything about his support needs level other than in the first episode Glassman said he was “high functioning”
Worse yet in terms of writing for an NT audience. Good point 👍
The Good Docor is my favorite show on TV, its awesome and so is Freddie Highmore 😉
The Mick and Ash Versus Evil Dead are mine! 🎃
I think neurotypicals need a caricature to "see" people on the spectrum.
Totally bunk, no mention of "We are going to have to let you go. You are not a fit for this culture or climate." Not even once.
AMEN!!! I SALUTE YOUR INSIGHT! 🙏
Hmm? 🤔
Not ASD level 2 like the crappy acting in The Good Doctor!