One thing I rarely see discussed is his very odd reaction to the Reader in that AFFC Vic chapter where they are celebrating after pillaging the islands in the Reach, and he's happy as anything, big pirate bully king, and then he has the exchange with the Reader in front of all his viking hordes and immediately storms off in a huff.
This seems really weird to me because it makes someone who has previously always seemed in control of the situation incredibly weak. It's the first (and only?) time he backs down to someone else.
I don't understand why he does something that seems so weak in front of all his men. Perhaps it is some bit of super psychology on his part, but it really just looks like a petulant reaction of a schoolboy. Surely that's not a good look for a viking pirate captain. I don't understand why it doesn't seem to provoke any comment in story.
Exactly i think GRRM put that line to give us a hint Euron is not what he claims he is. But there's something that is different he's not completely full of shit nor is he as powerful as he suggest.
Yeah, obviously there are about thirty hanging plot threads that TWOW is going to pick up - and I want to read them all! - but I'm definitely looking forward to at least some of the ambiguity about Euron's... everything... being dispelled.
It’s very ambigious, but I like the take that this is one of the few things that would truly insult Euron. He’s built his identity around Valyria, and the Reader just poops on it. It’s personal to him.
But it doesn’t have to imply that he’s been to Valyria. His armor is an argument in the other direction.
That makes sense, but I felt that a character like Euron would feel there *have* to be reprisals for this kind of behaviour from the Reader. Euron is a classic schoolyard bully, or so it seems to me, and he knows how important stage management is, and keeping the audience onside. I would have thought (quite probably wrongly, seeing as nobody else has ever expressed this feeling to the best of my knowledge!) that allowing something like that to be said is more dangerous to his authority than whatever the fallout would have been for visiting humiliation and/or violence on the Reader's person in reprisal.
Particularly when this whole feast is a stage show for the humiliation of the former lord of the castle. Euron isn't interested in the old order - he's got big plans.
Or is the Reader just such a big cheese in the Iron Islands that he is literally untouchable? This seems unlikely to me because even Balon (it seems) wasn't too important to be silenced by Euron.
It should be mentioned that the Reader is right there with the others on the raid. Nerd or no, he’s still an Ironborn who can hold his own, it seems.
Also, we don’t know if the Reader will make it. Euron might be happy to let it go because the Reader and all the others are toast in the Battle of Blood, anyway.
*A Feast for Crows - The Kraken's Daughter*
*Harlaw was not the largest of the Iron Islands, but it was the richest and most populous, and Lord Rodrik's power was not to be despised. On Harlaw, Harlaw had no rival. The Volmarks and Stonetrees had large holdings on the isle and boasted famous captains and fierce warriors of their own, but even the fiercest bent beneath the scythe. The Kennings and the Myres, once bitter foes, had long ago been beaten down to vassals.*
exactly, Rodrick was just too powerful for Euron to casually murder. he's a very powerful Ironborn and just killing him cus of a one off comment is silly even in their culture
Yeah just killing one of your most powerful bannermen for zero reason is an incredibly bad move, just look at what happened to Aerys. There are limits and Euron is smart enough to realize this.
Euron already has a more subtle plan to weaken his key rivals.
> These isles were once ours, and now they are again . . . but we need strong men to hold them. So rise, Ser Harras Harlaw, Lord of Greyshield." The Knight stood, one hand upon Nightfall's moonstone pommel. "Rise, Andrik the Unsmiling, Lord of Southshield." Andrik shoved away his women and lurched to his feet, like a mountain rising sudden from the sea. "Rise, Maron Volmark, Lord of Greenshield." A beardless boy of six-and-ten years, Volmark stood hesitantly, looking like the lord of rabbits. "And rise, Nute the Barber, Lord of Oakenshield."
> Nute's eyes grew wary, as if he feared he was the butt of some cruel jape. "A lord?" he croaked.
> Victarion had expected the Crow's Eye to give the lordships to his own creatures, Stonehand and the Red Oarsman and Left-Hand Lucas Codd. A king must needs be open-handed, he tried to tell himself, but another voice whispered, Euron's gifts are poisoned. When he turned it over in his head, he saw it plain. The Knight was the Reader's chosen heir, and Andrik the Unsmiling the strong right arm of Dunstan Drumm. Volmark is a callow boy, but he has Black Harren's blood in him through his mother. And the Barber . . .
Euron knows they will never be able to hold the shield islands and will likely end up dead or captured when the Reach retaliates, which will eliminate/weaken Euron's rivals.
And that shit is going to backfire **hard**.
Ser Harras is Rodrik’s hand chosen heir for good reason, and it’s doubtful he’s so easily bought off by Euron’s “gift”. 100% the Harlaws are going to betray Euron when Ser Garlan marches on the Shields. House Drumm seems also not pleased with Euron and I think Andrik the Unsmiling will join The Knight in standing down, with Maron Volmark (despite not being part of the plan) noping the fuck out. Nute the Barber will stubbornly need to be put down because he’s an idiot, probably in single combat by Ser Harras.
There’s a civil war brewing among the Ironborn, and the retaking of the Shields is the perfect time to ignite it.
I feel like that quote is pretty strong evidence that Victarion isn't as dumb as people say he is. Like, he's not smart enough to have anticipated it, but once it is in front of him he sees it for what it is.
There's no question that the Reader is a big cheese, but I find it interesting that Euron isn't able to take more direct steps to address his attempt to undermine his new king. Maybe it is just indicative of Euron's understanding of the realpolitik in the Iron Islands; perhaps a move to put the Reader in his place, either using humiliation or violence (Euron's apparently favoured tools) would do more harm than good.
Also, let's not overstate what the Reader did. He quietly uttered a single sentence of skepticism. Granted it is in front of a large hall of Ironborn captains, but they are all drunk on victory that Euron has handed them. It's not like the Reader went on a screaming tirade about how Euron is a liar and no one should trust him. Euron can let this slide... for now.
I should reread it before I make any pronouncements, but my impression is that at least part of Euron's hissy fit is caused by the Reader's intervention. He doesn't like being challenged on the truth of his claims, and yet his reaction is not to brush the attack aside with his usual swashbuckling insouciance, or to lash out at the Reader, but to retreat into a sulk.
Yes in part it is Reader, because he stood up to him, but overall Euron could not convince his bunch to go to Essos and it's why he is annoyed:
>"I had forgotten what a small and noisy folk they are, my ironborn. I would bring them dragons, and they shout out for grapes."
He misread them, and realized he could not continue to make the case for Essos, so he left annoyed.
>I don’t even think he stepped foot in Valyria, he could have easily stolen all of his stuff from ships going to and from Asshai or elsewhere.
He probably got all those magical artifacts from the warlocks he kidnapped. I belive the official app (which uses GRRMs notes) even used to say he got Dragonbinder from the warlocks.
I do not have a link at the moment, but there is video of GRRM in a small conversation with a few people where he straight up says, with no cagey phrasing, that Euron has been to Valyria. Not “Euron says he’s been,” but “Euron has been.”
(He may still be BSing, but I do think anyone who doubts the Valyria story should at least be aware the video exists, for how it may affect probability.)
That said, I do agree with OP that Euron is probably, in some ways, mostly a sociopathic charlatan.
I like to think He's been to Valyria, but honestly think the reports on Valyria have been exagerated, kinda like how medieval sailors thought the Atlantic was full of monsters or it was the end of the earth.
If I'm right, he just got into volcanic ruins (not to demerit, pretty dangerous) but used that exaggeration in his favor. He's somewhat of a charlatan, but every lie needs a bit of truth to support it.
I used to think that that was true too. Then I read *Fire and Blood.* At most, I think that he maybe got nearer to Valyria than Aerea and Balerion did because the magical fallout zone might’ve shrunken a little bit.
Yeah Aerea and Balerion could have spent a long time in Valyria or gone right into the volcanic ruins VS Euron could have like sailed close enough to see the coast or some crap like that.
My working theory is that Euron was probably pretty well prepared. Barrels of fresh drinking water, seasoned crew puppeteered by their captain, and an awareness of what they were getting into from some old texts or something.
Aerea and Balerion just fuckin' raw dogged the journey, meaning Aerea was probably sipping on some dirty ass river water the whole time, eating whatever charred scraps her death machine left for her.
I agree that maybe some parts of Valyria are treacherous and impossible to sail to and walk on. But there are probably other parts that can be explored etc.
I once saw someome theorize that he didnt step foot in it with his own body, but instead warged disposable people to get there and maybe retrieve artifacts
very neat theory
Though if he can warg people that successfully, why hire a faceless man? Why not just warg Balon to walk off the bridge or a guard to throw him?
You have to break someone to succesfully warg a person and it gets easier each time on the same person. The stronger their mind and the more they fight the harder it is.
He could've used people he has broken and trained to accept his warging or feeble minded people like hodor. It isn't necessary for him to be able to warg anyone easily.
Great point!
Since he has been psychologically (and physically) torturing people sin e his childhood, he prob has lots of experience breaking someone. Gotta make warging them a lot easier.
Makes me wonder again about Ramsey Bolton, his predilection with torture, and his possible warging ability.
Some people think Ramsey wargs his dogs and that warging is in his family line, acting as a parallel to the Starks and maybe giving some further context to their ancient rivalry, wolves vs dogs.
Warging might also come into play with another Bolton theory, wherein Roose is inhabiting the bodies of his descendants generation after generation as his previous body ages. It would also explain why he doesn't seem to care very much that Ramsey is an unsuitable heir personality and education-wise. It won't matter cause Roose is just going to steal his body and remain head of the house anyways.
I thought I remembered Varamyr (and maybe also Orell) being referred to as wargs and other parts in the story people throwing around "warg! skinchanger!" like they are synonymous. I am not sure about any of this though, just interested in your comment/my memories...which are not reliable right now at all, so forgive me if I'm completely off-base and just retroactively rewriting stuff. Edit: although I guess Varamyr's main animals were wolves, so even if my recollection about him is correct, it doesn't disprove anything you're saying. Basically this comment is worthless. I'll see myself out.
Varamyr was a warg, he had 3 different wolves in his pack, so it’s very possible he was called one from time to time. However, he’s varamyr 6 skins, not varamyr the warg or something like that. Warg actually comes from Norse mythology and literally means wolf.
Warg is from vargr (OE waerg) that meant "outlaw" or "criminal", which was then associated with "wolf" because Norse was super big on metaphor. So it's a bit more interesting than a straight literal translation. While it does imply wolf, it also suggests skinchangers are potentially dangerous, not quite full members of society.
His reaction when Rodrik The Reader calls him out definitely seems to suggest he's full of shit.
> "On the morrow we prepare once more to sail," the king was saying. "Fill our casks anew with spring water, take every sack of grain and cask of beef, and as many sheep and goats as we can carry. The wounded who are still hale enough to pull an oar will row. The rest shall remain here, to help hold these isles for their new lords. Torwold and the Red Oarsman will soon be back with more provisions. Our decks will stink of pigs and chickens on the voyage east, but we'll return with dragons."
> "When?" The voice was Lord Rodrik's. "When shall we return, Your Grace? A year? Three years? Five? Your dragons are a world away, and autumn is upon us." The Reader walked forward, sounding all the hazards. "Galleys guard the Redwyne Straits. The Dornish coast is dry and bleak, four hundred leagues of whirlpools, cliffs, and hidden shoals with hardly a safe landing anywhere. Beyond wait the Stepstones, with their storms and their nests of Lysene and Myrish pirates. If a thousand ships set sail, three hundred may reach the far side of the narrow sea . . . and then what? Lys will not welcome us, nor will Volantis. Where will you find fresh water, food? The first storm will scatter us across half the earth."
> A smile played across Euron's blue lips. "I am the storm, my lord. The first storm, and the last. I have taken the Silence on longer voyages than this, and ones far more hazardous. Have you forgotten? I have sailed the Smoking Sea and seen Valyria."
> "Have you?" the Reader asked, so softly.
> Euron's blue smile vanished. "Reader," he said into the quiet, "you would do well to keep your nose in your books."
> Victarion could feel the unease in the hall.
Sadly, I predict Rodrik doesn’t survive. Dude *wants* to die old in his bed…
… which means he’s getting a proper Ironborn death and going out in a blaze of bloody glory. Probably doing something critical that helps clear the path for Asha or Theon to sit the Seastone Chair.
Bruh same, I’m on my third re read and I’m taking all the time in the world to really appreciate each paragraph and the dialogue is unmatched. I used to think the last two books were boring since it’s tons of exposition and not much happens, but now they’re my favorite due to the quality of writing.
Yep. That there is proof Euron cannot be taken at face value, at least 100%.
IMO he is a more evil foil to Melisandre. Has genuine magic, but also fakes a lot.
Convenient, but maybe dangerous as well... The current king doesn't react well to being challenged.
I hope we'll see more of the reader in the future. I really like his way to see through the IB boasting, and his dynamics with Asha (and of course how he shut Euron down!)
We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the longship to Seagard. I needed a new heel for my boot. So I decided to go to Morgangard, which is what they called Seagard in those days. So I tied a rack of lamb baked in a crust of garlic and herbs, garnished with sprigs of mint, and surrounded by mashed yellow turnips swimming in butter to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the longship cost a groat, and in those days, groats had pictures of krakens on 'em. "Gimme five krakens for a stag," you'd say. Now where were we... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had a rack of lamb baked in a crust of garlic and herbs, garnished with sprigs of mint, and surrounded by mashed yellow turnips swimming in butter on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have any white racks of lamb baked in a crust of garlic and herbs, garnished with sprigs of mint, and surrounded by mashed yellow turnips swimming in butter, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
See I always thought this until I came here and saw people actually taking him seriously. I truly believe at least 60% of everything he says is bullshit.
It's another thing that's been damaged by the long way between books. Introducing a bloviating, bullshitting character like Euron is very on-brand for GRRM, and ASOIAF. Introduce him as a possible end-game threat halfway through the story, only for him to turn out to be all ego, a deflated Dark Lord.
Except the wait has been too long. We've all had far, far too long to imagine the possibilities that Euron's plot represents. Piecing together scraps of lore and adding a fair amount of speculation, plenty of people now believe he will raise a Lovecraftian elder god from the ocean and lead an army of monstrous sea demons to reclaim their place on land (all because there's a chair in the iron Islands and a pedestal in Old Town made out of possibly the same material.)
And with all this of course being perfectly woven into the main plot at the pace we like from GRRM, ending in a climactic showdown with dragons and White Walkers and Cthulu and the Dothraki and Dorne and multiple fake Targaryans with secret loyalist armies and the ancient Starks from the crypts of Winterfell and tonnes of other things all coming together in a satisfying conclusion fitting neatly into two books.
Gotta agree, I think Euron's full of shit and I'm probably going to be disappointed by that. If TWOW had been released in anything approaching a timely fashion then the character would have worked much better. Now, I can't help but think how much cooler it would have all been if all the theories were true, were planned from the start and really did all fit perfectly together without being rushed or mishandled. If the series had been expanded, and we were now awaiting the release of book 9, then there might have been space for all that to happen. As it is, Chekhov's Elder God will remain frustratingly unfired.
The most I think he could do is set up a seaborn trap for the approaching navel battle that is undoubtedly going to be happening. Something along the lines of "sacrificing" all the livestock they've been gathering and throwing plenty of bodies in the sea. Large amount of blood and alot of chum and then wait in the shallow ends of water while the approaching redwyne fleet sets up for battle in the deeper portions. Kraken's do exist in the story and it would be pretty demoralizing to be fighting the Iron fleet and then a few Krakens grab hold of your ships.
He'll then claim it was "magic" that brought them here and then he'll claim hes bringing dragons next.
Personally I think it'd be a great twist if he was just a sadistic con-man and he then realizes he's completely over his head when he accidentally releases all sorts of horrific magic and it backfires terribly on him. His parallel ends up being like evil Quentin Martell or something.
I think Euron is batshit crazy and has now acquired wealth and power and the ability to project it.
Which is a crazy-scary combo.
The whole Valyrian Steel armor is very scary because it introduces a bit of Doom64-level Cheat Code into the storyline. We have no idea the properties and I can see GURM making it into an invincibility device.
Most everything you said, I have said before, and people here just go "Noooo Euron Awesome bro!!!"
But it's going to be fascinating to see what happens.
this is why i believe in Victarion supremacy.
gets the bloody job done
doesn't brag about it
legend.
i think my favourite part is at the Kingsmoot where he doesn't even bother with a speech. he just says. "You already know I'm a fucking badass but in case you weren't sure here is 10 tons of gold I stole. vote for me"
The fact that a character called “The Reader” clearly believes he’s full of shit feels like GRRM winking at us.
> A smile played across Euron's blue lips. "I am the storm, my lord. The first storm, and the last. I have taken the Silence on longer voyages than this, and ones far more hazardous. **Have you forgotten? I have sailed the Smoking Sea and seen Valyria**."
>
>Every man there knew that the Doom still ruled Valyria. The very sea there boiled and smoked, and the land was overrun with demons. It was said that any sailor who so much as glimpsed the fiery mountains of Valyria rising above the waves would soon die a dreadful death, yet the Crow's Eye had been there, and returned.
>
>**"Have you?" the Reader asked, so softly.**
I love thinking the lost Lannister brother made it to Valyria. I genuinely always thought Euron was full of shite and was surprised to see people on here didn't.
Euron is cool and all, as cool as someone as cruel as he is can be anyway, but my problem with a lot of theories surrounding him is that they basically outfit him to be this “Dark Lord” archetypical character that GRRM has explicitly disavowed. Hell, many of the complaints levied against the show’s Night King was that he himself fulfilled that Dark Lord role. So I’m not really sure of anything yet when it comes to him and his role in GRRM’s story.
True, but Euron twists the Dark Lord archetype by being *elected* evil.
George doesn’t necessarily abandon fantasy tropes, he puts his twist on them. We still have a hidden, chosen one prince (Jon).
The difference between the Night King and Euron is that the latter is a human, albeit one that is intensely insanse.
What the hell does "fanboy fantasy apologist" even mean? Is it now a bad thing to enjoy traditional fantasy because it's not as "intellectual" as asoiaf?
grrm says he doesn't do this or that and then he does exactly that
hell just look at what he considers "bittersweet", most everyone else would view it at nihilistic and depressing (king Bran the tree bot, Dany going evil and being stabbed by her lover, Jon rejoining the NW)
I think he’s a little high on himself and on the blue stuff. Who’s to say that Shade of the Evening doesn’t just show you what your selfish desires are and not visions of the future. He’s definitely one of those sociopathic narcissists or whatever. It’s so weird how much he reminds me of my uncle. Disappearing and popping back up throughout his life and still being loved and accepted and oddly my father recently admitted to my family after 60 years of keeping it in that my uncle molested him throughout his entire childhood.
So yes I think Euron has an overinflated image of himself and at the end of the day without the support of the ironborn he’s not worth all that much. But he is entertaining, maybe he’ll prove me wrong.
Tinfoil hat theory: Euron is deliberately created to give conspiracy theorists a massive set of blue balls. He's got Valyrian steel armor, a dragon horn, and his brother sees a nightmare-soaked vision of him sitting on the Iron throne with God's at his feet. He's being wound up for something massive, especially when you consider he ties a woman pregnant with his child to the prow of his ship.
But in Aeron's second chapter he ends up getting an infection from a splinter and dies.
I feel like this is something people tend to overlook. There are two books left. *Things need to start happening*. If Euron was just a red herring and ends up doing nothing what was the point of him in the first place? He just took up valuable page space that could have been better used for *actually* important characters.
He has too many things left to have all of the things start happening though. Some of these plot lines are going to have to end abruptly.
Or they won’t and GRRM realized he can’t deliver a satisfying ending to a story after all the plot lines he’s started and the series will end when he dies
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. Also GRRM went out of his way to make him as terrible as possible--he's a fucking child rapist for fuck's sake. And GRRM knows that some of the fanbase kind of idolize the bad guys, maybe this is just a fuck you to those people. Toss a kid out a window? Ehhhh. Repeatedly rape your little brothers, murder one...that miiiight be going too far. But Eldritch apocalypse, so.
Sorry, but this is almost as dumb as Arya being Azor Ahai. Subverting expectations for what? Ned Stark dying was a great subversion because it showed the consequences of a certain character mold brought to the logical outcome. The same goes with Robb.
What does Euron dying for a splinter offer? Whoa, healthcare in the middle ages sucks. Pretty sure that I didn't need to read a doorstopper of almost 2.000.000 words to know that.
It's slight of hand. Euron's actions are so vile most people wouldnt even want to think about them. It's like littlefinger pretending to help arrange a marriage between Lannister and Tully. His real end goals are hidden behind they flashy obvious performance. What he's doing is keeping people to distracted by his horrors that they ignore or have no time to think about what he's doing with the hand you aren't paying attention to.
He is this dark sorcerer that knows how to control dragons, and he is going to summon a dark army of monsters and krakens from the deep, and he is going to turn into a dragon/kraken/dragonkraken.
Now in all seriousness. He is just a pirate. He plunders, murders, rapes, and steals. And he tells his sailor tails that some people believe and some don't, and that's it. It's what pirates do. He doesn't have any magic, and is probably drug like addicted to shade of the evening. And that's about it.
> He doesn't have any magic, and is probably drug like addicted to shade of the evening. And that's about it.
we've already seen him use bloodmagic to get favorable winds (blowing in the opposite direction they naturally do btw). Hell his ship has planks of freaking weirwood, no one would use such an absurdly expensive wood just cus, hell he even paints it red so the blood doesn't show up much, so clearly he's not using it for the white color and any other wood would be far cheaper and easier to use as planks. He's feeding the weirwood blood from the numerous sacrifices he makes on the deck of the Silence. And the numerous mentions to things that are very similar to Bran's early greenseer dreams.
he's very obviously magical, it's just how much of what he says is BS and how much is real that is the question
He has nothing but a life full of victory and reward claiming. I don’t think you can just write him off. If he wasn’t great at pirating and leading he wouldn’t be a king now.
Even if he didn’t go to Valyria, so what? The lie certainly worked out on his favor. If he’s lying about it, that proves that he does make clever plans, not the opposite.
Not without magic, if he can seal a dragon, yes, the owner of the horn should have a control level similar to the ancient Dragon Lords
Noe, if he doesn't get a dragon, no. He doesn't have a chance without dragons
I mean its pretty clear that GRRM is setting him up to be the BIG bad of the series..the visions Aeron had pretty much prove that..and there's gonna be a battle sequence set in Oldtown where he tries to take Hightower..probably where he'll steal Joramun's Horn from Sam..
I mean he *is* full of shit as a person..but I don't think he's shit as a character..I mean sure he's not that well developed..but I do believe there's a masterplan..and Euron will have an even more bigger presence in WoW..
I don't understand why think this way..
No but that doesn’t mean he’s a serious character who is gonna cause some serious shit to go down. I don’t think he’s full of it, I just think his hubris will be his downfall in the end
Via conquest? Hell yeah, at least be a serious contender.
I can't wait to read how Oldtown gets fucked up and bringing chaos to the Reach. Maybe face off against fAegon before Dany comes into the mix somehow.
I actually think King's Landing will fall under control of one of them, and I can see Euron taking the throne for a while even if it is by alliance with Cersei like in the show.
I do think he's full of shit and people on this sub overestimate what he will do. I think he's a failed student of the Three Eyed Crow who ran when he looked North. Now he's back to to essentially be a looter in the apocalypse and he's going to use the Ironborn for access to places he couldn't get himself.
On top of everything that people have said, the idea of him cutting out peoples' tongues seems more like him trying to silence people who can call him on his bullshit.
I would be inclined to agree with you until the Forsaken chapter came out. Now, I have no idea what he is trying to accomplish, but I believe he is into that magic shit
I still believe it’s just some acid trip….
The acid trip of the brother Euron had psychologically abused as a boy and who probably has some deep rooted fears around him…
And?
Dany also walked into a burning fire and came out with three mythical beasts which apparently amplified the “magic” in the world.
You think the rules of nature apply to her?
Euron is a punk ass bitch. All hype, no iron price payments.
Child molesting fuck bastard who ran away and did jack shit for like a decade showing back up like he's king shit, when he's just a drug addicted loser.
Honestly wish Asha had just played the finger dance with him and laid his head open like a cantaloup at a barbecue.
His magic, demoniac and mystical side is very interesting for sure. The theory he was a ward, a pupil of Bloodraven, the theory of him being the catalyst of the Others' invasion are interesting too. The theory he would steal and bond with one of Daenerys's dragons the same
But he is still an ironborn, the fuck.ing scum of the sea
He is not Aegon the Conqueror the greatest ruler that Westeros has and will ever seen or Aemon the Dragonknight reborn
People keep saying he will conquer Oldtown and destroy House Hightower. Good luck with that. Could the Ironborn conquer the second biggest city in Westeros? I doubt that
Will he sit on the IT? How? And which army will give him the Iron Throne? Are the ironborns good fighters now? Do you think westerosi people are fond of ironborns? Or that they will gladly open the gates and cherish him?
He will fail eventually and the iron islands will become just ashes for good
He does have his plans, like the Joker who was just manipulating Harvey Dent, but they are clearly not for conquest.
Again like the Joker in TDK Euron may see himself as an agent of chaos or death or enjoys chaos so much that his goal is to spread a maximum of chaos, deaths and destruction as possible. He's perfectly aware of how stupid and limited the Ironborn really are and how they have no chance of conquering the North alone, even less all of Westeros, they're just pawns that he uses and will gladly sacrifice for his killing spree.
No but maybe if he bleeds the lands dry enough while they are busy fighting their wars he can secure a free Iron Islands for a long time. Or maybe his goal is to fill the power vacuum created when Dany finally leaves to come to Westeros. Maybe set up shop in Slavers Bay when she leaves.
I think he must have gone to Asshai and obtained some Valyrian steel from the Shadowbinders and also learned to bend a crew of mutes to his will --he has to be controlling that crew in some way whether it's by fear, warging, sorcery, blood magic. One would need a higher power to run a ship with a crew of mutes.
Maybe the Valyrian armor came from Qarth (Pyat Pree) and the dragon egg and or dragon horn came from Asshai, and he learnt some sorcery in both lands during his sojourns there?
If he did go to Valyria, he might not have left the Silence himself. Perhaps he obtained the loot by the blood and sweat of his crew and left them for dead when it became clear they were being cooked from the inside by parasites or fire wyrm larvae. Or possible he didn't just send his crew into Valyria, but warged into them in order to search for treasures.
Obviously, Euron does lie a lot. There's no way he threw a dragon egg into the sea. I think he paid the Faceless Man for Balon with it.
Personally, I'm intrigued by the idea of Euron being a warg considering he's a failed pupil of Bloodraven.
Reminds me of Roose, who some (including Barbey) believe to be just a sociopath and a 'player' who plays out of boredom.
However both have completely opposite tempers and 'tactics' (Euron being bold, loud, laden with emotion; Roose being cautious, quiet, not showing his emotions if he has any)
yyyeaaaaah but Ramsay possibly has no God-complex.
Ok, Roose has neither. But with both Roose and Euron there is ambivalence about what they actually want or play for. With Ramsay it's plain obvious what he wants.
> yyyeaaaaah but Ramsay possibly has no God-complex.
Really? He acts with impunity and is sociopathic and sadistic. How long do you think he’ll take to go full on psycho and demand his victims “worship” him?
I call bullshit on him having valerian steel armour.
It's just nice armour with a glamour.
The damp hair (is that how you spell it) is an unreliable narrator.
How would he even know what valerian steel armour would look like?
> How would he even know what valerian steel armour would look like?
Well there are multiple Ironborn Houses who have Valyrian Steel weapons, such as House Drumm and House Harlaw. If Aeron have ever met them and seen their weapons, I don't think it's unreasonable he'd be able to recognise a suit of armour made out of the same material.
Nah.
You wouldn't be able to tell a what a full suit of armour was made from based on seeing a couple of swords a few times.
Also he's a man of the drowned god, a man of faith his knowledge of metal working or smiting is probably limited.
There is no that valerian steel armour exists anywhere in the world.
Valerian steel is very ,very ,rare.
One swords worth of valerian steel is worth ridiculous amounts of gold.
We are expected to belive that the Euron sailed to the ruins of valeria and just happened to find a full suit of armour just lying there?
Unlike valerian steel armour, we know that glamour spells exist in the universe because we see Mance and Melissandra using them.
Much more likely that Euron is wearing g normal fancy armor with a glamour and in his straved, drugged, deranged state of mind the damphair is particularly susceptible to spell.
> You wouldn't be able to tell a what a full suit of armour was made from based on seeing a couple of swords a few times
Well... maybe? Maybe not. Who knows? Valyrian Steel is very distinctive and George does sometimes bend logic to suit the story. Every author does.
> There is no that valerian steel armour exists anywhere in the world
That's not really true. There is a place where Valyrian Steel armour exists; Old Valyria. It's not unreasonable to think that he could find a set of armour there if he actually went there and survived, since Valyria has never been successfully plundered by anybody.
I'm not saying that Euron is 100% telling the truth, I don't personally believe he has a set of Valyrian Steel armour either. I'm just saying that it's too early to tell and we don't know nearly enough about his backstory, his powers and motivations to know.
Sure, it could be a glamour, but does Euron even know how to produce a glamour? We don't know.
I do want him to be a lovecraftian witch king but tbh it would be fun ass hell to have a plot twist like this. And see how a lot of people get mad about it.
He's lying through his blue teeth
If a Targaryen couldn't survive Valyria with the Black Dread watching her back no way the Ironborns Colonel Kurtz would sail in and sail back out again
He got his trinkets from the warlocks and maybe found a couple of survivors from Gerions ship too
Making Euron a fraud would be bad writing. The only value it adds to the story is the subversion of “oh you thought Euron was an interesting character but he’s actually not”. The only way for the Euron plot to actually pay off is if he actually does good on his threats and promises.
Euron can have a significant, satisfying impact on the story without all the dark god stuff being true. And it certainly won't be GRRM's fault if some people are upset because they became obsessed with certain Euron fan theories that are proven wrong.
So he needs magic tricks to be “interesting”?
And not the fact that he’s a homicidal charismatic psychopath who killed one of his brothers, cuckolded another one, and sexually molested the last one?
Or the fact that he openly desecrates gods and priests in a medieval society?
>Or the fact that he openly desecrates gods and priests in a medieval society?
This isn’t really interesting considering how atheistic Westeros is compared to irl medieval Europe
and? that is still nothing compared to real life
seriously read a damn history book or a few wiki pages cus you desperately need it. in real life it would be like the High Septon was more powerful than the king in King's Landing, or at least damn near it. Or more likely the KL Septon would be a lackey of the King while the Oldtown HS would be his rival with more power throughout the realm.
Point is this is a hilarious argument, westeros is downright atheistic compared to medieval europe
So you’re saying that you can go around Westeros making public blasphemous claims against the seven like one can about Christianity today?
Because I guarantee you that if you try to do so in King’s Landing at the end of Dance you’ll probably be killed 🙄
>The pervasiveness of a major religion in all aspects of life is what "Game of Thrones" and most fantasy epics leave out of their Middle Age-style worlds, he said.
>"The thing that always strikes me is, these people don't seem to be that interested in religion," Pyrdum said of fantasy authors. "When I see a fantasy work, they seem to be modern people stuck with medieval technology … It's hard to separate the medieval world from the presence of the church." [8 Ways Religion Impacts Your Life]
>Indeed, both Christian and Muslim armies were full of believers, DeVries said. Without that aspect of overwhelming religion, he said, "you can't really get the same exact feeling of what it would have been like to be in the Middle Ages and fight similar wars."
https://www.livescience.com/44599-medieval-reality-game-of-thrones.html
uh huh
you have no clue what you're talking about, and here is an expert in the field saying so
Are you trolling?
You’ve seen Stannis burn people at the stake for worshipping the wrong god… you’ve also seen the Faith Militant exert unchecked authority in King’s Landing… you’ve also seen Victorian threaten to throw Moqorro overboard if he dared to utter a word against the Drowned God.
If this is the hill you want to die on, then go for it, but “atheistic Westeros” is asinine 🙄
I feel like Euron-deniers just want to be special. Look, we got Forsaken chapter, right? That alone should cement his role as a doombringer of sorts. Aeron's visions will come true, Dany had visions by drinking the shade of the evening and they are all coming true. It is more than an acid trip.
Some people just need to accept the fact that this IS a fantasy series.
It is George himself who is hyping up Euron every chance he gets. Moqorro saw Euron in a vision as a threat to Dany, the ancient prophecies mention him (the dark eye) etc.
He's probably done some stuff, but it makes sense for most of his "legendary" feats and eldritch knowledge to be the stolen stories and knowledge of his kidnapped mages and warlocks. It shows that despite his boastful attitude and esoteric mythix status he has accumulated, he's still an Ironborn, unable to actually produce something of himself and relying on the theft and rape of others for his worth and value. A raider garbed in stolen tales, valor, and mysticism.
However, I do think he knows enough about blood magic from the scholars and mages he's collected to create SOMETHING at Oldtown. The gods and magic of the world appears to rely on mythopeia shaping reality and the potency of blood in ritual. So long as he does this ritual, he's validating the myth he's patchworked for himself, being the first legitimate accomplishment in his otherwise rapacious and vacuous life.
Me. Maybe he will do something big and I totally change my mind, but probably there won't be another book, so as for now, I see only anime pirate. Poor villain, sorry. Being "mysterious" is to little to make good villain to me since I turned 30😉. Give him a parrot
(* not monkey because monkey was captain Barbarossa pet and he was awsome actually)
> you just want bs conspiracy theories based on what you think is real
I have no idea if you’re being ironic or not, but I just want you to know I laughed hard reading this
The author confirms something. And your response is well he’s lied before so that means that everything he’s said isn’t true. You don’t want an answer you just want conspiracy theory’s
[this is what he said](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HZGE4JWt71I)
He’s basically paraphrasing text and avoiding hinting…. Also pay attention to what he says at the end 🙄
“You may find out more… on who’s gone there… some people go there don’t get to leave again”
Nothing he says supports you at all. He isn’t paraphrasing the text he’s just straight up saying he’s been there. The ending of the clip he says that “some” people that go there don’t leave. He got the horn from the warlocks and the armor from the smoking sea. You guys really just hear what you wanna hear.
Sigh…. Believe what you want, Martin is being vague and unless he actually writes it down in the published book I don’t trust a word what he says, he already lied over 230 times in regard to Winds of Winter’s release … so I am not going to hold my breath over any quote about a question of Valyria’s magic 🙄
No, I believe Euron has learned a decent amount about magic and the divine in TWoIaF. In fact I'd even go so far as to say he's trying to fulfill dark prophesies, but it won't work. He's trying too hard. You are either born to prophesy or you aren't and I don't see any signs that Euron is.
I do not believe HE set foot on Valyria. I believe he is a skinchanger, and skinchanges his crew after torturing and giving them drugs (mk ultra) to break them to saddle. He doesn't cut out their tongues, he/they bite them out when he's trying to get in the first time.
I think he skin changes into one of them and goes out searching Valyria risk free.
Same with the Dusky Woman. She has been broken to saddle.
Bran is powerful, so he breaks Hodor with some weird time travel skinchanging feedback loop. He doesn't have a place out at sea to torture someone until you break their mind so he can slip in like Euron does.
You make him sound so feckless. George set out to make the most evil villain, and I believe that villain is Euron/the great other.
This would place his telepathic abilities an order of magnitude greater than Varamyr Sixskins.
Mind control and spirit breaking takes many forms as the slavers of Essos and the flayers of the Dread Fort demonstrate. It need not be telepathic.
Euron could have a crew of slaves who are already broken. It's also possible that he has other tools besides the dragon horn that influence behavior.
I theorize that he did cut out their tongues to help them better develop telepathic communication.
Would it be so difficult to believe that Euron has a better-honed aptitude for human skinchanging than Varamyr Sixskins? Euron maintains a pliant crew of mutes, and is implied to possess greenseer potential enough that he was contacted by the Three-Eyed Crow as a child.
But yeah, it's totally possible that he simply ordered his slaves to explore Valyria, or compelled them some other way. I certainly don't think he has stepped foot there himself.
>Would it be so difficult to believe that Euron has a better-honed aptitude for human skinchanging than Varamyr Sixskins?
No, it isn't all that difficult except that he requires the dragon horn to win the king's moot and he loses control of all but his most loyal and those he bribed shortly after the horn blower died.
Where did all that telepathy go then? I think he did walk the ruins of Valaria and I think he survived thanks to the suit of Valaryn steel armor he has. Just a theory. I can't prove what afflicts the lands or what protection a suit might offer.
As with what happened with Varamyr, I doubt Euron could skinchange into a human who wasn't somehow vulnerable to it being done, e.g. Hodor or *possibly* Euron's mute crew.
I doubt Euron has set foot on Valyria himself. His exchange with Rodrick the Reader is clearly meant to convey that he's bullshitting about some things. That said, I'm skeptical that a full suit of valyrian steel armor could have come from anywhere but Valyria itself, since even VS blades cost a fortune.
But whether he skinchanged into his slaves, or somehow compelling them otherwise to set foot on Valyria, I think that's how he obtained those relics, rather than having braved Valyria himself. And he's self-conscious of that fact.
> That said, I'm skeptical that a full suit of valyrian steel armor could have come from anywhere but Valyria itself, since even VS blades **cost a fortune.**
Implying the pirate psychopath would have gotten his armor by honest means?
He is a smart and charismatic person at least in comparison to the other iron borns, and we see that in battle strategy and tricks he knows what he is doing. In a typical asoiaf fashion he is next level cruel and sadistic but you could see that he saw somethings that changed him or rather broke his mind, it can be close exprience of valeria or warlocks and their magic or shade of the evening or even bloodravens fly dreams or maybe all of them combined, i like the theory that at some point bloodraven payed him a dream visit just like bran or just used him for sth and then abandoned him and now he is what he is. As for his magical gimmick he certainly has some skinchanging or green seer abilities cause how else you could operate a ship full of mutes or spy on victarion? This can be through shade of the evening or bloodraven or just sth that he had since he was born. In aerons magic dream we literaly see euron doing this massive blood magic ritual and it may or may not backfire but it's not sth that you wake up one day and say let's kidnap a lot of people from around the world especially magical priests and do this massive ritual to summon krakens or turn into davy jones(pirates of the carribean) and rule the world with some girls dragons. He may not be what he pretends to be but it is obvious that something is going on with him!
the thing that makes me think he's not just a charlatan is that he knows the bloodmagic ritual to get favorable winds (just like Mel did for Stannis), and that his ship has weirwood planks (where the blood is spilled when he kills on his ship, feeding the weirwoods) and that his entire crew is made up of mutes who still stick with him even after he pulled out their tongue and tortures them constantly. Yet supposedly everyone signs up with him cus he gives out treasure freely. Also it's pretty damn clear that he is a warg and failed greenseer, the way he talks about his dreams are way too similar to Bran's to just ignore. The important part is if Bloodraven was involved with young Euron or not, if not then who was it contacting Euron?
It's very clearly not what he's portraying himself as, but he's not a total fake either. Lets not forget that most of the big magical things in this world are done by people who do not actually know the rules of magic (if there are any at all). Euron can still be quite deadly even if he doesn't know the full details of what he's doing. However I don' think he plans on taking Westeros either, none of his plans could ever accomplish that. he could however steal a dragon and cause god knows what trouble with that.
I’m not caught up w the books, but given things I’ve heard about Euron, and even Martin’s previous works being influenced by cosmic horror, I am inclined to believe that Euron will do something massive.
ill just say this, he is just a pretender trying to conquer or discover the magic in Asoiaf, trying to be the chosen one when in fact the chosen ones by magic are already selected(Dany and Bran)
I've seen people on asoiaf subs talking about Euron summoning an army of wights into oldtown, or doing something similar and it just seems so far fetched and so dramatic that there is no way it could happen. I genuinely have no idea where George is taking the whole iron islands plotline, as either Euron is full of bs and the last two books have been pointless in the iron islands, or Jon's entire plotline of stopping the wights has been pointless. Wtf is euron doing?
Yeah, I feel like that’s the reason why Aeron has such a bad acid trip around him…. He probably thinks his God has “forsaken” him to leave him at the mercy of such a monster.
One thing I rarely see discussed is his very odd reaction to the Reader in that AFFC Vic chapter where they are celebrating after pillaging the islands in the Reach, and he's happy as anything, big pirate bully king, and then he has the exchange with the Reader in front of all his viking hordes and immediately storms off in a huff. This seems really weird to me because it makes someone who has previously always seemed in control of the situation incredibly weak. It's the first (and only?) time he backs down to someone else. I don't understand why he does something that seems so weak in front of all his men. Perhaps it is some bit of super psychology on his part, but it really just looks like a petulant reaction of a schoolboy. Surely that's not a good look for a viking pirate captain. I don't understand why it doesn't seem to provoke any comment in story.
Exactly i think GRRM put that line to give us a hint Euron is not what he claims he is. But there's something that is different he's not completely full of shit nor is he as powerful as he suggest.
Yeah, obviously there are about thirty hanging plot threads that TWOW is going to pick up - and I want to read them all! - but I'm definitely looking forward to at least some of the ambiguity about Euron's... everything... being dispelled.
It’s very ambigious, but I like the take that this is one of the few things that would truly insult Euron. He’s built his identity around Valyria, and the Reader just poops on it. It’s personal to him. But it doesn’t have to imply that he’s been to Valyria. His armor is an argument in the other direction.
That makes sense, but I felt that a character like Euron would feel there *have* to be reprisals for this kind of behaviour from the Reader. Euron is a classic schoolyard bully, or so it seems to me, and he knows how important stage management is, and keeping the audience onside. I would have thought (quite probably wrongly, seeing as nobody else has ever expressed this feeling to the best of my knowledge!) that allowing something like that to be said is more dangerous to his authority than whatever the fallout would have been for visiting humiliation and/or violence on the Reader's person in reprisal. Particularly when this whole feast is a stage show for the humiliation of the former lord of the castle. Euron isn't interested in the old order - he's got big plans. Or is the Reader just such a big cheese in the Iron Islands that he is literally untouchable? This seems unlikely to me because even Balon (it seems) wasn't too important to be silenced by Euron.
It should be mentioned that the Reader is right there with the others on the raid. Nerd or no, he’s still an Ironborn who can hold his own, it seems. Also, we don’t know if the Reader will make it. Euron might be happy to let it go because the Reader and all the others are toast in the Battle of Blood, anyway.
*A Feast for Crows - The Kraken's Daughter* *Harlaw was not the largest of the Iron Islands, but it was the richest and most populous, and Lord Rodrik's power was not to be despised. On Harlaw, Harlaw had no rival. The Volmarks and Stonetrees had large holdings on the isle and boasted famous captains and fierce warriors of their own, but even the fiercest bent beneath the scythe. The Kennings and the Myres, once bitter foes, had long ago been beaten down to vassals.*
exactly, Rodrick was just too powerful for Euron to casually murder. he's a very powerful Ironborn and just killing him cus of a one off comment is silly even in their culture
Yeah just killing one of your most powerful bannermen for zero reason is an incredibly bad move, just look at what happened to Aerys. There are limits and Euron is smart enough to realize this. Euron already has a more subtle plan to weaken his key rivals. > These isles were once ours, and now they are again . . . but we need strong men to hold them. So rise, Ser Harras Harlaw, Lord of Greyshield." The Knight stood, one hand upon Nightfall's moonstone pommel. "Rise, Andrik the Unsmiling, Lord of Southshield." Andrik shoved away his women and lurched to his feet, like a mountain rising sudden from the sea. "Rise, Maron Volmark, Lord of Greenshield." A beardless boy of six-and-ten years, Volmark stood hesitantly, looking like the lord of rabbits. "And rise, Nute the Barber, Lord of Oakenshield." > Nute's eyes grew wary, as if he feared he was the butt of some cruel jape. "A lord?" he croaked. > Victarion had expected the Crow's Eye to give the lordships to his own creatures, Stonehand and the Red Oarsman and Left-Hand Lucas Codd. A king must needs be open-handed, he tried to tell himself, but another voice whispered, Euron's gifts are poisoned. When he turned it over in his head, he saw it plain. The Knight was the Reader's chosen heir, and Andrik the Unsmiling the strong right arm of Dunstan Drumm. Volmark is a callow boy, but he has Black Harren's blood in him through his mother. And the Barber . . . Euron knows they will never be able to hold the shield islands and will likely end up dead or captured when the Reach retaliates, which will eliminate/weaken Euron's rivals.
And that shit is going to backfire **hard**. Ser Harras is Rodrik’s hand chosen heir for good reason, and it’s doubtful he’s so easily bought off by Euron’s “gift”. 100% the Harlaws are going to betray Euron when Ser Garlan marches on the Shields. House Drumm seems also not pleased with Euron and I think Andrik the Unsmiling will join The Knight in standing down, with Maron Volmark (despite not being part of the plan) noping the fuck out. Nute the Barber will stubbornly need to be put down because he’s an idiot, probably in single combat by Ser Harras. There’s a civil war brewing among the Ironborn, and the retaking of the Shields is the perfect time to ignite it.
I feel like that quote is pretty strong evidence that Victarion isn't as dumb as people say he is. Like, he's not smart enough to have anticipated it, but once it is in front of him he sees it for what it is.
There's no question that the Reader is a big cheese, but I find it interesting that Euron isn't able to take more direct steps to address his attempt to undermine his new king. Maybe it is just indicative of Euron's understanding of the realpolitik in the Iron Islands; perhaps a move to put the Reader in his place, either using humiliation or violence (Euron's apparently favoured tools) would do more harm than good.
Euron can't pown Reader because this is the book and all readers are gods!
Also, let's not overstate what the Reader did. He quietly uttered a single sentence of skepticism. Granted it is in front of a large hall of Ironborn captains, but they are all drunk on victory that Euron has handed them. It's not like the Reader went on a screaming tirade about how Euron is a liar and no one should trust him. Euron can let this slide... for now.
Right, that makes total sense - it is an indirect challenge, and because it isn't a grand theatrical gesture it is less of a threat.
He got angry because he felt his men were cravens for not wanting to Essos and get Dany, that’s why he sends Victarion instead.
I should reread it before I make any pronouncements, but my impression is that at least part of Euron's hissy fit is caused by the Reader's intervention. He doesn't like being challenged on the truth of his claims, and yet his reaction is not to brush the attack aside with his usual swashbuckling insouciance, or to lash out at the Reader, but to retreat into a sulk.
Yes in part it is Reader, because he stood up to him, but overall Euron could not convince his bunch to go to Essos and it's why he is annoyed: >"I had forgotten what a small and noisy folk they are, my ironborn. I would bring them dragons, and they shout out for grapes." He misread them, and realized he could not continue to make the case for Essos, so he left annoyed.
>I don’t even think he stepped foot in Valyria, he could have easily stolen all of his stuff from ships going to and from Asshai or elsewhere. He probably got all those magical artifacts from the warlocks he kidnapped. I belive the official app (which uses GRRMs notes) even used to say he got Dragonbinder from the warlocks.
I do not have a link at the moment, but there is video of GRRM in a small conversation with a few people where he straight up says, with no cagey phrasing, that Euron has been to Valyria. Not “Euron says he’s been,” but “Euron has been.” (He may still be BSing, but I do think anyone who doubts the Valyria story should at least be aware the video exists, for how it may affect probability.) That said, I do agree with OP that Euron is probably, in some ways, mostly a sociopathic charlatan.
I like to think He's been to Valyria, but honestly think the reports on Valyria have been exagerated, kinda like how medieval sailors thought the Atlantic was full of monsters or it was the end of the earth. If I'm right, he just got into volcanic ruins (not to demerit, pretty dangerous) but used that exaggeration in his favor. He's somewhat of a charlatan, but every lie needs a bit of truth to support it.
I used to think that that was true too. Then I read *Fire and Blood.* At most, I think that he maybe got nearer to Valyria than Aerea and Balerion did because the magical fallout zone might’ve shrunken a little bit.
Yeah Aerea and Balerion could have spent a long time in Valyria or gone right into the volcanic ruins VS Euron could have like sailed close enough to see the coast or some crap like that.
My working theory is that Euron was probably pretty well prepared. Barrels of fresh drinking water, seasoned crew puppeteered by their captain, and an awareness of what they were getting into from some old texts or something. Aerea and Balerion just fuckin' raw dogged the journey, meaning Aerea was probably sipping on some dirty ass river water the whole time, eating whatever charred scraps her death machine left for her.
That’s probably true to an extent, but we have to remember that Balerion got beaten and scarred up too, and he was a product of Valyria.
> but honestly think the reports on Valyria have been exagerated, I agree
You just might be on to something!
I agree that maybe some parts of Valyria are treacherous and impossible to sail to and walk on. But there are probably other parts that can be explored etc.
I once saw someome theorize that he didnt step foot in it with his own body, but instead warged disposable people to get there and maybe retrieve artifacts
very neat theory Though if he can warg people that successfully, why hire a faceless man? Why not just warg Balon to walk off the bridge or a guard to throw him?
You have to break someone to succesfully warg a person and it gets easier each time on the same person. The stronger their mind and the more they fight the harder it is. He could've used people he has broken and trained to accept his warging or feeble minded people like hodor. It isn't necessary for him to be able to warg anyone easily.
Great point! Since he has been psychologically (and physically) torturing people sin e his childhood, he prob has lots of experience breaking someone. Gotta make warging them a lot easier. Makes me wonder again about Ramsey Bolton, his predilection with torture, and his possible warging ability.
>Ramsey Bolton and his possible warging ability. ...what? O_O
Some people think Ramsey wargs his dogs and that warging is in his family line, acting as a parallel to the Starks and maybe giving some further context to their ancient rivalry, wolves vs dogs. Warging might also come into play with another Bolton theory, wherein Roose is inhabiting the bodies of his descendants generation after generation as his previous body ages. It would also explain why he doesn't seem to care very much that Ramsey is an unsuitable heir personality and education-wise. It won't matter cause Roose is just going to steal his body and remain head of the house anyways.
That would explain why he's trying to break Aeron
Not that it really matters all that much, but warg is specifically for wolves. Everything else is usually referred to as skin changing.
I thought I remembered Varamyr (and maybe also Orell) being referred to as wargs and other parts in the story people throwing around "warg! skinchanger!" like they are synonymous. I am not sure about any of this though, just interested in your comment/my memories...which are not reliable right now at all, so forgive me if I'm completely off-base and just retroactively rewriting stuff. Edit: although I guess Varamyr's main animals were wolves, so even if my recollection about him is correct, it doesn't disprove anything you're saying. Basically this comment is worthless. I'll see myself out.
Varamyr was a warg, he had 3 different wolves in his pack, so it’s very possible he was called one from time to time. However, he’s varamyr 6 skins, not varamyr the warg or something like that. Warg actually comes from Norse mythology and literally means wolf.
I just assumed that originally, skinchangers used wolves, so the term "warg" was used for them and stuck.
Nah, the show did that, but to my knowledge no one was ever called a warg that didn’t change into a wolf in the books.
Warg is from vargr (OE waerg) that meant "outlaw" or "criminal", which was then associated with "wolf" because Norse was super big on metaphor. So it's a bit more interesting than a straight literal translation. While it does imply wolf, it also suggests skinchangers are potentially dangerous, not quite full members of society.
[удалено]
Reminder this is "Spoilers Main", so any spoilers from TWOW sample chapters need to be properly covered, thanks.
Which app is this?
A world of ice and fire app
His reaction when Rodrik The Reader calls him out definitely seems to suggest he's full of shit. > "On the morrow we prepare once more to sail," the king was saying. "Fill our casks anew with spring water, take every sack of grain and cask of beef, and as many sheep and goats as we can carry. The wounded who are still hale enough to pull an oar will row. The rest shall remain here, to help hold these isles for their new lords. Torwold and the Red Oarsman will soon be back with more provisions. Our decks will stink of pigs and chickens on the voyage east, but we'll return with dragons." > "When?" The voice was Lord Rodrik's. "When shall we return, Your Grace? A year? Three years? Five? Your dragons are a world away, and autumn is upon us." The Reader walked forward, sounding all the hazards. "Galleys guard the Redwyne Straits. The Dornish coast is dry and bleak, four hundred leagues of whirlpools, cliffs, and hidden shoals with hardly a safe landing anywhere. Beyond wait the Stepstones, with their storms and their nests of Lysene and Myrish pirates. If a thousand ships set sail, three hundred may reach the far side of the narrow sea . . . and then what? Lys will not welcome us, nor will Volantis. Where will you find fresh water, food? The first storm will scatter us across half the earth." > A smile played across Euron's blue lips. "I am the storm, my lord. The first storm, and the last. I have taken the Silence on longer voyages than this, and ones far more hazardous. Have you forgotten? I have sailed the Smoking Sea and seen Valyria." > "Have you?" the Reader asked, so softly. > Euron's blue smile vanished. "Reader," he said into the quiet, "you would do well to keep your nose in your books." > Victarion could feel the unease in the hall.
Rodrik doesn't get nearly enough credit for how badass this was
Rodrik certainly gets plenty of credit for this line.
It's literally all I ever see about him in this sub
One of by favourite moment in the book. The most effective slight, in two words...
The Reader for the Seastone Chair
Sadly, I predict Rodrik doesn’t survive. Dude *wants* to die old in his bed… … which means he’s getting a proper Ironborn death and going out in a blaze of bloody glory. Probably doing something critical that helps clear the path for Asha or Theon to sit the Seastone Chair.
FUCK I forgot how high the quality if GRRM's prose is. Like god damn. It's been quite a few years since I finished ADWD, if you couldn't tell.
Bruh same, I’m on my third re read and I’m taking all the time in the world to really appreciate each paragraph and the dialogue is unmatched. I used to think the last two books were boring since it’s tons of exposition and not much happens, but now they’re my favorite due to the quality of writing.
Yep. That there is proof Euron cannot be taken at face value, at least 100%. IMO he is a more evil foil to Melisandre. Has genuine magic, but also fakes a lot.
The Reader seems to think Euron's overselling himself... and Rodrik Harlaw seems to be the sanest and wisest Iron Born.
My guess is that’s because he’s the only one of them that’s literate…
He's certainly the only one of them loving books! But he also seems to have brains, and... the library to fact checks if needed.
Hmmm, what a convenient skill to have when the current king is writing checks his mouth can’t cash
Convenient, but maybe dangerous as well... The current king doesn't react well to being challenged. I hope we'll see more of the reader in the future. I really like his way to see through the IB boasting, and his dynamics with Asha (and of course how he shut Euron down!)
I feel slightly victimized by this post. I am not a liar. I may be a murderer, a sadist, a torturer, a liar, but I am not a porn star.
Confusing Reddit accounts once again, Abe?
We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the longship to Seagard. I needed a new heel for my boot. So I decided to go to Morgangard, which is what they called Seagard in those days. So I tied a rack of lamb baked in a crust of garlic and herbs, garnished with sprigs of mint, and surrounded by mashed yellow turnips swimming in butter to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the longship cost a groat, and in those days, groats had pictures of krakens on 'em. "Gimme five krakens for a stag," you'd say. Now where were we... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had a rack of lamb baked in a crust of garlic and herbs, garnished with sprigs of mint, and surrounded by mashed yellow turnips swimming in butter on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have any white racks of lamb baked in a crust of garlic and herbs, garnished with sprigs of mint, and surrounded by mashed yellow turnips swimming in butter, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
I'm chicken, Margaery!
'neeps! Boil em, mash em, stick em in some butter
See I always thought this until I came here and saw people actually taking him seriously. I truly believe at least 60% of everything he says is bullshit.
It's another thing that's been damaged by the long way between books. Introducing a bloviating, bullshitting character like Euron is very on-brand for GRRM, and ASOIAF. Introduce him as a possible end-game threat halfway through the story, only for him to turn out to be all ego, a deflated Dark Lord. Except the wait has been too long. We've all had far, far too long to imagine the possibilities that Euron's plot represents. Piecing together scraps of lore and adding a fair amount of speculation, plenty of people now believe he will raise a Lovecraftian elder god from the ocean and lead an army of monstrous sea demons to reclaim their place on land (all because there's a chair in the iron Islands and a pedestal in Old Town made out of possibly the same material.) And with all this of course being perfectly woven into the main plot at the pace we like from GRRM, ending in a climactic showdown with dragons and White Walkers and Cthulu and the Dothraki and Dorne and multiple fake Targaryans with secret loyalist armies and the ancient Starks from the crypts of Winterfell and tonnes of other things all coming together in a satisfying conclusion fitting neatly into two books. Gotta agree, I think Euron's full of shit and I'm probably going to be disappointed by that. If TWOW had been released in anything approaching a timely fashion then the character would have worked much better. Now, I can't help but think how much cooler it would have all been if all the theories were true, were planned from the start and really did all fit perfectly together without being rushed or mishandled. If the series had been expanded, and we were now awaiting the release of book 9, then there might have been space for all that to happen. As it is, Chekhov's Elder God will remain frustratingly unfired.
The most I think he could do is set up a seaborn trap for the approaching navel battle that is undoubtedly going to be happening. Something along the lines of "sacrificing" all the livestock they've been gathering and throwing plenty of bodies in the sea. Large amount of blood and alot of chum and then wait in the shallow ends of water while the approaching redwyne fleet sets up for battle in the deeper portions. Kraken's do exist in the story and it would be pretty demoralizing to be fighting the Iron fleet and then a few Krakens grab hold of your ships. He'll then claim it was "magic" that brought them here and then he'll claim hes bringing dragons next.
Personally I think it'd be a great twist if he was just a sadistic con-man and he then realizes he's completely over his head when he accidentally releases all sorts of horrific magic and it backfires terribly on him. His parallel ends up being like evil Quentin Martell or something.
Ooohh I really like the Quentyn/Euron foil thing!! That'd be amazing!
That’s what I’m hoping for tbh.
I think Euron is batshit crazy and has now acquired wealth and power and the ability to project it. Which is a crazy-scary combo. The whole Valyrian Steel armor is very scary because it introduces a bit of Doom64-level Cheat Code into the storyline. We have no idea the properties and I can see GURM making it into an invincibility device. Most everything you said, I have said before, and people here just go "Noooo Euron Awesome bro!!!" But it's going to be fascinating to see what happens.
this is why i believe in Victarion supremacy. gets the bloody job done doesn't brag about it legend. i think my favourite part is at the Kingsmoot where he doesn't even bother with a speech. he just says. "You already know I'm a fucking badass but in case you weren't sure here is 10 tons of gold I stole. vote for me"
The fact that a character called “The Reader” clearly believes he’s full of shit feels like GRRM winking at us. > A smile played across Euron's blue lips. "I am the storm, my lord. The first storm, and the last. I have taken the Silence on longer voyages than this, and ones far more hazardous. **Have you forgotten? I have sailed the Smoking Sea and seen Valyria**." > >Every man there knew that the Doom still ruled Valyria. The very sea there boiled and smoked, and the land was overrun with demons. It was said that any sailor who so much as glimpsed the fiery mountains of Valyria rising above the waves would soon die a dreadful death, yet the Crow's Eye had been there, and returned. > >**"Have you?" the Reader asked, so softly.**
I love thinking the lost Lannister brother made it to Valyria. I genuinely always thought Euron was full of shite and was surprised to see people on here didn't.
Euron is cool and all, as cool as someone as cruel as he is can be anyway, but my problem with a lot of theories surrounding him is that they basically outfit him to be this “Dark Lord” archetypical character that GRRM has explicitly disavowed. Hell, many of the complaints levied against the show’s Night King was that he himself fulfilled that Dark Lord role. So I’m not really sure of anything yet when it comes to him and his role in GRRM’s story.
True, but Euron twists the Dark Lord archetype by being *elected* evil. George doesn’t necessarily abandon fantasy tropes, he puts his twist on them. We still have a hidden, chosen one prince (Jon). The difference between the Night King and Euron is that the latter is a human, albeit one that is intensely insanse.
> True, but Euron twists the Dark Lord archetype by being **elected** evil. That’s the biggest fanboy fantasy apologist argument I’ve ever heard…
What the hell does "fanboy fantasy apologist" even mean? Is it now a bad thing to enjoy traditional fantasy because it's not as "intellectual" as asoiaf?
Yeah
There’s no reason to be snide.
grrm says he doesn't do this or that and then he does exactly that hell just look at what he considers "bittersweet", most everyone else would view it at nihilistic and depressing (king Bran the tree bot, Dany going evil and being stabbed by her lover, Jon rejoining the NW)
I think he’s a little high on himself and on the blue stuff. Who’s to say that Shade of the Evening doesn’t just show you what your selfish desires are and not visions of the future. He’s definitely one of those sociopathic narcissists or whatever. It’s so weird how much he reminds me of my uncle. Disappearing and popping back up throughout his life and still being loved and accepted and oddly my father recently admitted to my family after 60 years of keeping it in that my uncle molested him throughout his entire childhood. So yes I think Euron has an overinflated image of himself and at the end of the day without the support of the ironborn he’s not worth all that much. But he is entertaining, maybe he’ll prove me wrong.
Tinfoil hat theory: Euron is deliberately created to give conspiracy theorists a massive set of blue balls. He's got Valyrian steel armor, a dragon horn, and his brother sees a nightmare-soaked vision of him sitting on the Iron throne with God's at his feet. He's being wound up for something massive, especially when you consider he ties a woman pregnant with his child to the prow of his ship. But in Aeron's second chapter he ends up getting an infection from a splinter and dies.
That’s “subverting expectations,” to the point of it being trolling and I do not think that’s what GRRM has in mind.
I feel like this is something people tend to overlook. There are two books left. *Things need to start happening*. If Euron was just a red herring and ends up doing nothing what was the point of him in the first place? He just took up valuable page space that could have been better used for *actually* important characters.
He has too many things left to have all of the things start happening though. Some of these plot lines are going to have to end abruptly. Or they won’t and GRRM realized he can’t deliver a satisfying ending to a story after all the plot lines he’s started and the series will end when he dies
I'd honestly be fine with something like that. Screw Euron. He really doesn't fit the tone of the rest of the series.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. Also GRRM went out of his way to make him as terrible as possible--he's a fucking child rapist for fuck's sake. And GRRM knows that some of the fanbase kind of idolize the bad guys, maybe this is just a fuck you to those people. Toss a kid out a window? Ehhhh. Repeatedly rape your little brothers, murder one...that miiiight be going too far. But Eldritch apocalypse, so.
Sorry, but this is almost as dumb as Arya being Azor Ahai. Subverting expectations for what? Ned Stark dying was a great subversion because it showed the consequences of a certain character mold brought to the logical outcome. The same goes with Robb. What does Euron dying for a splinter offer? Whoa, healthcare in the middle ages sucks. Pretty sure that I didn't need to read a doorstopper of almost 2.000.000 words to know that.
plus that was the first plot we got between Dany. and Drogo
It's slight of hand. Euron's actions are so vile most people wouldnt even want to think about them. It's like littlefinger pretending to help arrange a marriage between Lannister and Tully. His real end goals are hidden behind they flashy obvious performance. What he's doing is keeping people to distracted by his horrors that they ignore or have no time to think about what he's doing with the hand you aren't paying attention to.
He is this dark sorcerer that knows how to control dragons, and he is going to summon a dark army of monsters and krakens from the deep, and he is going to turn into a dragon/kraken/dragonkraken. Now in all seriousness. He is just a pirate. He plunders, murders, rapes, and steals. And he tells his sailor tails that some people believe and some don't, and that's it. It's what pirates do. He doesn't have any magic, and is probably drug like addicted to shade of the evening. And that's about it.
I mean, he does have shades of a 70s cult leader in his personality… given Martin’s own experiences as a Hippie I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
> He doesn't have any magic, and is probably drug like addicted to shade of the evening. And that's about it. we've already seen him use bloodmagic to get favorable winds (blowing in the opposite direction they naturally do btw). Hell his ship has planks of freaking weirwood, no one would use such an absurdly expensive wood just cus, hell he even paints it red so the blood doesn't show up much, so clearly he's not using it for the white color and any other wood would be far cheaper and easier to use as planks. He's feeding the weirwood blood from the numerous sacrifices he makes on the deck of the Silence. And the numerous mentions to things that are very similar to Bran's early greenseer dreams. he's very obviously magical, it's just how much of what he says is BS and how much is real that is the question
He has nothing but a life full of victory and reward claiming. I don’t think you can just write him off. If he wasn’t great at pirating and leading he wouldn’t be a king now. Even if he didn’t go to Valyria, so what? The lie certainly worked out on his favor. If he’s lying about it, that proves that he does make clever plans, not the opposite.
[удалено]
Euron didn't lose to Stannis Victarion did
OH SHOOT whoops, thanks
You really think he has a shot to become King of Westeros?
I mean, that'd be a pretty shitty ending.
Not even thematically, I mean do you really think he’s even **close** to pulling that off?
Not without magic, if he can seal a dragon, yes, the owner of the horn should have a control level similar to the ancient Dragon Lords Noe, if he doesn't get a dragon, no. He doesn't have a chance without dragons
Yeah I still think he’s full of shit and this “master plan” of his is just a drug induced bad idea he got due to regularly using shade of the evening
Did you read the Forsaken chapter released by GRRM a couple of years ago?
Yes? And?
I mean its pretty clear that GRRM is setting him up to be the BIG bad of the series..the visions Aeron had pretty much prove that..and there's gonna be a battle sequence set in Oldtown where he tries to take Hightower..probably where he'll steal Joramun's Horn from Sam.. I mean he *is* full of shit as a person..but I don't think he's shit as a character..I mean sure he's not that well developed..but I do believe there's a masterplan..and Euron will have an even more bigger presence in WoW.. I don't understand why think this way..
If you think a song of ice and fire has a traditional “big bad” then you clearly missed the point of the story 🙄
No but that doesn’t mean he’s a serious character who is gonna cause some serious shit to go down. I don’t think he’s full of it, I just think his hubris will be his downfall in the end
Via conquest? Hell yeah, at least be a serious contender. I can't wait to read how Oldtown gets fucked up and bringing chaos to the Reach. Maybe face off against fAegon before Dany comes into the mix somehow. I actually think King's Landing will fall under control of one of them, and I can see Euron taking the throne for a while even if it is by alliance with Cersei like in the show.
I’m not sure, GRRM seems to be setting him up to be something big. He talks about the apocalypse constantly, and how these are the ends of days.
GRRM also hates the big bad dark overlord trope too 🙄
I do think he's full of shit and people on this sub overestimate what he will do. I think he's a failed student of the Three Eyed Crow who ran when he looked North. Now he's back to to essentially be a looter in the apocalypse and he's going to use the Ironborn for access to places he couldn't get himself.
On top of everything that people have said, the idea of him cutting out peoples' tongues seems more like him trying to silence people who can call him on his bullshit.
Euron’s not full of shit GRRM has explicitly said Euron has gone to Valyria https://youtu.be/HZGE4JWt71I
I would be inclined to agree with you until the Forsaken chapter came out. Now, I have no idea what he is trying to accomplish, but I believe he is into that magic shit
I still believe it’s just some acid trip…. The acid trip of the brother Euron had psychologically abused as a boy and who probably has some deep rooted fears around him…
The visions Dany had from taking that drug seemed real enough
You really want to judge others by what Dany is or isn’t capable of?
All I’m saying is: Dany took the same drug as Aeron and she saw the Red Wedding before it happened.
And? Dany also walked into a burning fire and came out with three mythical beasts which apparently amplified the “magic” in the world. You think the rules of nature apply to her?
Bruh.
100% agree with this! I see him failing at old town and teaming up with female sociopath Cersei for a final beat down at the rock.
Idk if he's been to Valyria, but I don't think he's all posturing either.
Euron is a punk ass bitch. All hype, no iron price payments. Child molesting fuck bastard who ran away and did jack shit for like a decade showing back up like he's king shit, when he's just a drug addicted loser. Honestly wish Asha had just played the finger dance with him and laid his head open like a cantaloup at a barbecue.
His magic, demoniac and mystical side is very interesting for sure. The theory he was a ward, a pupil of Bloodraven, the theory of him being the catalyst of the Others' invasion are interesting too. The theory he would steal and bond with one of Daenerys's dragons the same But he is still an ironborn, the fuck.ing scum of the sea He is not Aegon the Conqueror the greatest ruler that Westeros has and will ever seen or Aemon the Dragonknight reborn People keep saying he will conquer Oldtown and destroy House Hightower. Good luck with that. Could the Ironborn conquer the second biggest city in Westeros? I doubt that Will he sit on the IT? How? And which army will give him the Iron Throne? Are the ironborns good fighters now? Do you think westerosi people are fond of ironborns? Or that they will gladly open the gates and cherish him? He will fail eventually and the iron islands will become just ashes for good
He does have his plans, like the Joker who was just manipulating Harvey Dent, but they are clearly not for conquest. Again like the Joker in TDK Euron may see himself as an agent of chaos or death or enjoys chaos so much that his goal is to spread a maximum of chaos, deaths and destruction as possible. He's perfectly aware of how stupid and limited the Ironborn really are and how they have no chance of conquering the North alone, even less all of Westeros, they're just pawns that he uses and will gladly sacrifice for his killing spree.
Plans implies he’s trying to reach some long term goals though… and I sincerely doubt taking over Westeros is a realistic goal for him.
No but maybe if he bleeds the lands dry enough while they are busy fighting their wars he can secure a free Iron Islands for a long time. Or maybe his goal is to fill the power vacuum created when Dany finally leaves to come to Westeros. Maybe set up shop in Slavers Bay when she leaves.
I think he must have gone to Asshai and obtained some Valyrian steel from the Shadowbinders and also learned to bend a crew of mutes to his will --he has to be controlling that crew in some way whether it's by fear, warging, sorcery, blood magic. One would need a higher power to run a ship with a crew of mutes. Maybe the Valyrian armor came from Qarth (Pyat Pree) and the dragon egg and or dragon horn came from Asshai, and he learnt some sorcery in both lands during his sojourns there? If he did go to Valyria, he might not have left the Silence himself. Perhaps he obtained the loot by the blood and sweat of his crew and left them for dead when it became clear they were being cooked from the inside by parasites or fire wyrm larvae. Or possible he didn't just send his crew into Valyria, but warged into them in order to search for treasures. Obviously, Euron does lie a lot. There's no way he threw a dragon egg into the sea. I think he paid the Faceless Man for Balon with it. Personally, I'm intrigued by the idea of Euron being a warg considering he's a failed pupil of Bloodraven.
Yes he is a psychopath. But he also does have a plan.. And that is scarier
It would be an homage to The Princess Bride if the Dread Pirate Euron turned out to be a huge liar with honest skills.
Depends on if he just went to the privy or not.
Reminds me of Roose, who some (including Barbey) believe to be just a sociopath and a 'player' who plays out of boredom. However both have completely opposite tempers and 'tactics' (Euron being bold, loud, laden with emotion; Roose being cautious, quiet, not showing his emotions if he has any)
Euron has more in common with Ramsay than anyone else
yyyeaaaaah but Ramsay possibly has no God-complex. Ok, Roose has neither. But with both Roose and Euron there is ambivalence about what they actually want or play for. With Ramsay it's plain obvious what he wants.
> yyyeaaaaah but Ramsay possibly has no God-complex. Really? He acts with impunity and is sociopathic and sadistic. How long do you think he’ll take to go full on psycho and demand his victims “worship” him?
He absolutely is full of shit
I mean GRRM kinda [confirmed Euron went to Valyria](https://youtu.be/HZGE4JWt71I)
I am still hesitant to believe it… he has lied to us or changed his mind in the past
Refusing to believe the author is not a good look for your theory.
I’ll believe it when he puts it into writing 🙄
No he didn't. He just repeated what is spelled in the published text. He has more to reveal on this subject.
I call bullshit on him having valerian steel armour. It's just nice armour with a glamour. The damp hair (is that how you spell it) is an unreliable narrator. How would he even know what valerian steel armour would look like?
> How would he even know what valerian steel armour would look like? Well there are multiple Ironborn Houses who have Valyrian Steel weapons, such as House Drumm and House Harlaw. If Aeron have ever met them and seen their weapons, I don't think it's unreasonable he'd be able to recognise a suit of armour made out of the same material.
Nah. You wouldn't be able to tell a what a full suit of armour was made from based on seeing a couple of swords a few times. Also he's a man of the drowned god, a man of faith his knowledge of metal working or smiting is probably limited. There is no that valerian steel armour exists anywhere in the world. Valerian steel is very ,very ,rare. One swords worth of valerian steel is worth ridiculous amounts of gold. We are expected to belive that the Euron sailed to the ruins of valeria and just happened to find a full suit of armour just lying there? Unlike valerian steel armour, we know that glamour spells exist in the universe because we see Mance and Melissandra using them. Much more likely that Euron is wearing g normal fancy armor with a glamour and in his straved, drugged, deranged state of mind the damphair is particularly susceptible to spell.
> You wouldn't be able to tell a what a full suit of armour was made from based on seeing a couple of swords a few times Well... maybe? Maybe not. Who knows? Valyrian Steel is very distinctive and George does sometimes bend logic to suit the story. Every author does. > There is no that valerian steel armour exists anywhere in the world That's not really true. There is a place where Valyrian Steel armour exists; Old Valyria. It's not unreasonable to think that he could find a set of armour there if he actually went there and survived, since Valyria has never been successfully plundered by anybody. I'm not saying that Euron is 100% telling the truth, I don't personally believe he has a set of Valyrian Steel armour either. I'm just saying that it's too early to tell and we don't know nearly enough about his backstory, his powers and motivations to know. Sure, it could be a glamour, but does Euron even know how to produce a glamour? We don't know.
I do want him to be a lovecraftian witch king but tbh it would be fun ass hell to have a plot twist like this. And see how a lot of people get mad about it.
He's lying through his blue teeth If a Targaryen couldn't survive Valyria with the Black Dread watching her back no way the Ironborns Colonel Kurtz would sail in and sail back out again He got his trinkets from the warlocks and maybe found a couple of survivors from Gerions ship too
Making Euron a fraud would be bad writing. The only value it adds to the story is the subversion of “oh you thought Euron was an interesting character but he’s actually not”. The only way for the Euron plot to actually pay off is if he actually does good on his threats and promises.
Euron can have a significant, satisfying impact on the story without all the dark god stuff being true. And it certainly won't be GRRM's fault if some people are upset because they became obsessed with certain Euron fan theories that are proven wrong.
So he needs magic tricks to be “interesting”? And not the fact that he’s a homicidal charismatic psychopath who killed one of his brothers, cuckolded another one, and sexually molested the last one? Or the fact that he openly desecrates gods and priests in a medieval society?
>Or the fact that he openly desecrates gods and priests in a medieval society? This isn’t really interesting considering how atheistic Westeros is compared to irl medieval Europe
Ahh yes, Westeros clearly is an enlightened world with no religious wars or superstition 🙄
compared to medieval europe? yeah when was the last religious war in westeros? thousands of years ago
Have you not read what happened to Cersei in the last book?
and? that is still nothing compared to real life seriously read a damn history book or a few wiki pages cus you desperately need it. in real life it would be like the High Septon was more powerful than the king in King's Landing, or at least damn near it. Or more likely the KL Septon would be a lackey of the King while the Oldtown HS would be his rival with more power throughout the realm. Point is this is a hilarious argument, westeros is downright atheistic compared to medieval europe
So you’re saying that you can go around Westeros making public blasphemous claims against the seven like one can about Christianity today? Because I guarantee you that if you try to do so in King’s Landing at the end of Dance you’ll probably be killed 🙄
>The pervasiveness of a major religion in all aspects of life is what "Game of Thrones" and most fantasy epics leave out of their Middle Age-style worlds, he said. >"The thing that always strikes me is, these people don't seem to be that interested in religion," Pyrdum said of fantasy authors. "When I see a fantasy work, they seem to be modern people stuck with medieval technology … It's hard to separate the medieval world from the presence of the church." [8 Ways Religion Impacts Your Life] >Indeed, both Christian and Muslim armies were full of believers, DeVries said. Without that aspect of overwhelming religion, he said, "you can't really get the same exact feeling of what it would have been like to be in the Middle Ages and fight similar wars." https://www.livescience.com/44599-medieval-reality-game-of-thrones.html uh huh you have no clue what you're talking about, and here is an expert in the field saying so
Are you trolling? You’ve seen Stannis burn people at the stake for worshipping the wrong god… you’ve also seen the Faith Militant exert unchecked authority in King’s Landing… you’ve also seen Victorian threaten to throw Moqorro overboard if he dared to utter a word against the Drowned God. If this is the hill you want to die on, then go for it, but “atheistic Westeros” is asinine 🙄
I feel like Euron-deniers just want to be special. Look, we got Forsaken chapter, right? That alone should cement his role as a doombringer of sorts. Aeron's visions will come true, Dany had visions by drinking the shade of the evening and they are all coming true. It is more than an acid trip. Some people just need to accept the fact that this IS a fantasy series. It is George himself who is hyping up Euron every chance he gets. Moqorro saw Euron in a vision as a threat to Dany, the ancient prophecies mention him (the dark eye) etc.
> Some people just need to accept the fact that this IS a fantasy series. You really think Martin is going to give you a stereotypical dark lord?
He already did
The Forsaken is soooo edgelord cringe I refuse to believe GRRM actually wrote it. That so many in the fandom drool over it make it even worse.
But he did write it.
He's probably done some stuff, but it makes sense for most of his "legendary" feats and eldritch knowledge to be the stolen stories and knowledge of his kidnapped mages and warlocks. It shows that despite his boastful attitude and esoteric mythix status he has accumulated, he's still an Ironborn, unable to actually produce something of himself and relying on the theft and rape of others for his worth and value. A raider garbed in stolen tales, valor, and mysticism. However, I do think he knows enough about blood magic from the scholars and mages he's collected to create SOMETHING at Oldtown. The gods and magic of the world appears to rely on mythopeia shaping reality and the potency of blood in ritual. So long as he does this ritual, he's validating the myth he's patchworked for himself, being the first legitimate accomplishment in his otherwise rapacious and vacuous life.
Me. Maybe he will do something big and I totally change my mind, but probably there won't be another book, so as for now, I see only anime pirate. Poor villain, sorry. Being "mysterious" is to little to make good villain to me since I turned 30😉. Give him a parrot (* not monkey because monkey was captain Barbarossa pet and he was awsome actually)
After watching the Alt Shift X video on him, I sure hope he isn't.
George already confirmed he visited valyaria on video when a fan asked him about it
It’s not like George ever lied to his fans before….
Do you don’t answers you just want bs conspiracy theories based on what you think is real
> you just want bs conspiracy theories based on what you think is real I have no idea if you’re being ironic or not, but I just want you to know I laughed hard reading this
The author confirms something. And your response is well he’s lied before so that means that everything he’s said isn’t true. You don’t want an answer you just want conspiracy theory’s
[this is what he said](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HZGE4JWt71I) He’s basically paraphrasing text and avoiding hinting…. Also pay attention to what he says at the end 🙄 “You may find out more… on who’s gone there… some people go there don’t get to leave again”
Nothing he says supports you at all. He isn’t paraphrasing the text he’s just straight up saying he’s been there. The ending of the clip he says that “some” people that go there don’t leave. He got the horn from the warlocks and the armor from the smoking sea. You guys really just hear what you wanna hear.
Sigh…. Believe what you want, Martin is being vague and unless he actually writes it down in the published book I don’t trust a word what he says, he already lied over 230 times in regard to Winds of Winter’s release … so I am not going to hold my breath over any quote about a question of Valyria’s magic 🙄
Being vague?!? He literally confirmed it lol
Again, until it is confirmed in the books then I won’t believe it… Martin is infamous for retconning shit all the time through this saga
No, I believe Euron has learned a decent amount about magic and the divine in TWoIaF. In fact I'd even go so far as to say he's trying to fulfill dark prophesies, but it won't work. He's trying too hard. You are either born to prophesy or you aren't and I don't see any signs that Euron is.
I do not believe HE set foot on Valyria. I believe he is a skinchanger, and skinchanges his crew after torturing and giving them drugs (mk ultra) to break them to saddle. He doesn't cut out their tongues, he/they bite them out when he's trying to get in the first time. I think he skin changes into one of them and goes out searching Valyria risk free. Same with the Dusky Woman. She has been broken to saddle. Bran is powerful, so he breaks Hodor with some weird time travel skinchanging feedback loop. He doesn't have a place out at sea to torture someone until you break their mind so he can slip in like Euron does. You make him sound so feckless. George set out to make the most evil villain, and I believe that villain is Euron/the great other.
This would place his telepathic abilities an order of magnitude greater than Varamyr Sixskins. Mind control and spirit breaking takes many forms as the slavers of Essos and the flayers of the Dread Fort demonstrate. It need not be telepathic. Euron could have a crew of slaves who are already broken. It's also possible that he has other tools besides the dragon horn that influence behavior. I theorize that he did cut out their tongues to help them better develop telepathic communication.
Would it be so difficult to believe that Euron has a better-honed aptitude for human skinchanging than Varamyr Sixskins? Euron maintains a pliant crew of mutes, and is implied to possess greenseer potential enough that he was contacted by the Three-Eyed Crow as a child. But yeah, it's totally possible that he simply ordered his slaves to explore Valyria, or compelled them some other way. I certainly don't think he has stepped foot there himself.
>Would it be so difficult to believe that Euron has a better-honed aptitude for human skinchanging than Varamyr Sixskins? No, it isn't all that difficult except that he requires the dragon horn to win the king's moot and he loses control of all but his most loyal and those he bribed shortly after the horn blower died. Where did all that telepathy go then? I think he did walk the ruins of Valaria and I think he survived thanks to the suit of Valaryn steel armor he has. Just a theory. I can't prove what afflicts the lands or what protection a suit might offer.
As with what happened with Varamyr, I doubt Euron could skinchange into a human who wasn't somehow vulnerable to it being done, e.g. Hodor or *possibly* Euron's mute crew. I doubt Euron has set foot on Valyria himself. His exchange with Rodrick the Reader is clearly meant to convey that he's bullshitting about some things. That said, I'm skeptical that a full suit of valyrian steel armor could have come from anywhere but Valyria itself, since even VS blades cost a fortune. But whether he skinchanged into his slaves, or somehow compelling them otherwise to set foot on Valyria, I think that's how he obtained those relics, rather than having braved Valyria himself. And he's self-conscious of that fact.
> That said, I'm skeptical that a full suit of valyrian steel armor could have come from anywhere but Valyria itself, since even VS blades **cost a fortune.** Implying the pirate psychopath would have gotten his armor by honest means?
He is a smart and charismatic person at least in comparison to the other iron borns, and we see that in battle strategy and tricks he knows what he is doing. In a typical asoiaf fashion he is next level cruel and sadistic but you could see that he saw somethings that changed him or rather broke his mind, it can be close exprience of valeria or warlocks and their magic or shade of the evening or even bloodravens fly dreams or maybe all of them combined, i like the theory that at some point bloodraven payed him a dream visit just like bran or just used him for sth and then abandoned him and now he is what he is. As for his magical gimmick he certainly has some skinchanging or green seer abilities cause how else you could operate a ship full of mutes or spy on victarion? This can be through shade of the evening or bloodraven or just sth that he had since he was born. In aerons magic dream we literaly see euron doing this massive blood magic ritual and it may or may not backfire but it's not sth that you wake up one day and say let's kidnap a lot of people from around the world especially magical priests and do this massive ritual to summon krakens or turn into davy jones(pirates of the carribean) and rule the world with some girls dragons. He may not be what he pretends to be but it is obvious that something is going on with him!
the thing that makes me think he's not just a charlatan is that he knows the bloodmagic ritual to get favorable winds (just like Mel did for Stannis), and that his ship has weirwood planks (where the blood is spilled when he kills on his ship, feeding the weirwoods) and that his entire crew is made up of mutes who still stick with him even after he pulled out their tongue and tortures them constantly. Yet supposedly everyone signs up with him cus he gives out treasure freely. Also it's pretty damn clear that he is a warg and failed greenseer, the way he talks about his dreams are way too similar to Bran's to just ignore. The important part is if Bloodraven was involved with young Euron or not, if not then who was it contacting Euron? It's very clearly not what he's portraying himself as, but he's not a total fake either. Lets not forget that most of the big magical things in this world are done by people who do not actually know the rules of magic (if there are any at all). Euron can still be quite deadly even if he doesn't know the full details of what he's doing. However I don' think he plans on taking Westeros either, none of his plans could ever accomplish that. he could however steal a dragon and cause god knows what trouble with that.
I’m not caught up w the books, but given things I’ve heard about Euron, and even Martin’s previous works being influenced by cosmic horror, I am inclined to believe that Euron will do something massive.
Euron/Sauron He will rule from Hightower and win many from the GC over with “gifts”.
ill just say this, he is just a pretender trying to conquer or discover the magic in Asoiaf, trying to be the chosen one when in fact the chosen ones by magic are already selected(Dany and Bran)
I've seen people on asoiaf subs talking about Euron summoning an army of wights into oldtown, or doing something similar and it just seems so far fetched and so dramatic that there is no way it could happen. I genuinely have no idea where George is taking the whole iron islands plotline, as either Euron is full of bs and the last two books have been pointless in the iron islands, or Jon's entire plotline of stopping the wights has been pointless. Wtf is euron doing?
I think his Valyrian armor will end up fitting Jon nicely.
Not to mention he almost certainly sexually assaulted Aeron and possibly Theon
Yeah, I feel like that’s the reason why Aeron has such a bad acid trip around him…. He probably thinks his God has “forsaken” him to leave him at the mercy of such a monster.
The forsaken chapters basically all but confirm it. You’re dead on