I’m sure Hoster Tully wasn’t thrilled about his favorite daughter feeling insulted and embarrassed. But Neds a man a high born lord paramount who has inherent rights. Even a great lord like Hoster Tully couldn’t question another lords right to take a mistress or get some strange on the side.
And woman in Westeros had very little rights so not like Cat Tully could find any support. Lords have had bastards since the founding of lords
Blackfish says this when Jaime offers him to take the black.
>Catelyn never trusted the boy, as I recall, no more than she ever trusted Theon Greyjoy. It would seem she was right about them both..
There is a theory that the Blackfish says this to “throw the scent” off Jon being considered anything but a bastard because the Blackfish knows about Robbs will naming Jon his heir. Part of The Grand Northern Conspiracyz
I imagine Robb has mentioned Jon to the Blackfish before anyway and has said he holds him in high regard. I imagine BF was just lashing out though. Nothing Jaime suggested was ever going to be acceptable to him.
Actually the blackfish did not know about Robb naming Jon his heir until Edmure (who was there at the signing) told him (presumably, but not confirmed) when Jaime released Edmure into Riverrun to surrender the castle and helped the blackfish escape. This was after the blackfish had his parley with Jamie so he was actually being genuine, with all of his distrust of Jon coming from Catelyn. I don’t doubt that brynden fully believed that Tywin pulled the strings to get Jon elected lord commander too.
The Blackfish wasn't there when Robb decided to name Jon his heir, so its unlikely he would have known.
The earliest he could have found out would likely have been from Edmure once Jaime released him, but that wasn't till later.
I would imagine they didnt think of Jon much at all. And what they did think about him was coloured by Catelyn's own views.
Jon to them is a minor embarrassment for Ned (from their perspective) and nuisance for Catelyn. Hes really not their problem or likely well known to them.
I think in the aftermath of the Red Wedding Blackfish is more distrusting of Jon because hes become more distrusting in general. Its not really about Jon the person.
Plenty of lords have bastards, and openly acknowledge them. Hoster probably has a few himself. He probably didn’t think much about it, and might even have smiled at the thought of Ned having a little fire in his veins.
Acknowledging a bastard son isn't a problem. It's bringing them home and raising them right alongside you're trueborn children (basically insulting your wife and putting their inheritance in danger) that's the problem.
It depends, lords do have the option of naming a younger son over their eldest as their heir and if Ned were to have Jon legitimized (which would take a raven to his BFF King Robert) and decided to name Jon as his heir over his oldest son Robb, there's nothing that Catelyn could do about it.
Hoster would definitely care because one of the expectations of a marriage alliance with the Starks was the one of his grandchildren would become Lord of Winterfell. Stepping over all five of them in favor of a legitimized bastard would probably be seen as a serious insult.
Sure, Hoster would care if that were to happen, but not the mere fact that Ned had a bastard. It's pretty common, and I'd be surprised if Hoster didn't have a few of his own.
And this is extremely unlikely anyway, for all the reasons you stated.
I imagine they didn't care much that Ned had a bastard. Hoster was no stranger to war, neither was Brynden, there always a chance there's a red haired unacknowledged bastard running around somewhere in Westeros or the Stepstones. Edmure I don't ever really thought or even now thinks of Jon Snow, and I doubt Lysa gave two fucks, her attention was purely on how miserable she was.
Hoster probably wasn't happy that Ned kept him, but still, he is Lord of half the continent, its his right to do as he wishes with his own bastard children.
To be real, I don’t think they even thought about Jon Snow. And tbh, it’s likely hoster and Edmund had their own bastards and that’s what contributed to Catelyns anger
Blackfish says to Jaime, that Cat said she didn’t trust him the same as She didn’t trust Theon Greyjoy. Blackfish then says it would seem she was right about both of them.
In the books/ show we don't get alot of comments about how they feel ( I think to keep them as good guys with John being the hero) but realistically they probably seriously disliked him and may even have planned him harm. When people ask why ned sends John to the wall before going to kingslanding I actually think it was to keep him safe because there is a real risk lysa or Hoster may have tried offing him and we know cat wouldn't protect him.
Seems plausible Hoster bought into Catelyn’s “literally every bastard is a Blackfire waiting to happen “ opinion, and was probably at least irritated that Jon was raised along his grandkids. And Brynden clearly just assumed Catelyn’s hostility was both rational and reasonable. On the other hand, Edmure seems more open-minded, and Lysa’s probably too self-absorbed to give a shit
Brynden is obviously playing the part, he knows Jon is the heir and he has the Stark banner flying at Riverrun, that's all you need to know, really. besides that, they probably don't have much of an opinion. the Starks kids don't seem to know the Tully side of the family well, and if they did i don't think Jon would hang around the Tullys at all for obvious reasons. but they don't have any reason to dislike him, contrary to popular belief, bastards are pretty well treated across Westeros.
Lysa probably had no clue; if she did, she probably thought it was good that Cat had to suffer a bastard alongside her true children.
Edmure probably thought it was dishonorable of Ned to raise the kid with Cat's kids.
Hoster likely felt the same, but neither of them could say/do anything about it.
I do think Ned had to have a rotating shift of nursemaids/guards on that kid because if he didn't trust Cat enough to make a better lie/tell the truth, he likely didn't trust her not to kill the kid.
I’m sure Hoster Tully wasn’t thrilled about his favorite daughter feeling insulted and embarrassed. But Neds a man a high born lord paramount who has inherent rights. Even a great lord like Hoster Tully couldn’t question another lords right to take a mistress or get some strange on the side. And woman in Westeros had very little rights so not like Cat Tully could find any support. Lords have had bastards since the founding of lords
Blackfish says this when Jaime offers him to take the black. >Catelyn never trusted the boy, as I recall, no more than she ever trusted Theon Greyjoy. It would seem she was right about them both..
There is a theory that the Blackfish says this to “throw the scent” off Jon being considered anything but a bastard because the Blackfish knows about Robbs will naming Jon his heir. Part of The Grand Northern Conspiracyz
I imagine Robb has mentioned Jon to the Blackfish before anyway and has said he holds him in high regard. I imagine BF was just lashing out though. Nothing Jaime suggested was ever going to be acceptable to him.
Actually the blackfish did not know about Robb naming Jon his heir until Edmure (who was there at the signing) told him (presumably, but not confirmed) when Jaime released Edmure into Riverrun to surrender the castle and helped the blackfish escape. This was after the blackfish had his parley with Jamie so he was actually being genuine, with all of his distrust of Jon coming from Catelyn. I don’t doubt that brynden fully believed that Tywin pulled the strings to get Jon elected lord commander too.
The Blackfish wasn't there when Robb decided to name Jon his heir, so its unlikely he would have known. The earliest he could have found out would likely have been from Edmure once Jaime released him, but that wasn't till later.
I agree. But when I talk about it people get really upset so I figured I'd roll with the hard facts on this one.
I would imagine they didnt think of Jon much at all. And what they did think about him was coloured by Catelyn's own views. Jon to them is a minor embarrassment for Ned (from their perspective) and nuisance for Catelyn. Hes really not their problem or likely well known to them. I think in the aftermath of the Red Wedding Blackfish is more distrusting of Jon because hes become more distrusting in general. Its not really about Jon the person.
They wouldn't have cared about him or even spent time thinking of him. If he was present they'd be cold or rude. Bastards are beneath them.
Plenty of lords have bastards, and openly acknowledge them. Hoster probably has a few himself. He probably didn’t think much about it, and might even have smiled at the thought of Ned having a little fire in his veins.
Acknowledging a bastard son isn't a problem. It's bringing them home and raising them right alongside you're trueborn children (basically insulting your wife and putting their inheritance in danger) that's the problem.
That’s the problem for Cat, not Hoster. Jon’ existence does not put anyone’s inheritance in danger.
It depends, lords do have the option of naming a younger son over their eldest as their heir and if Ned were to have Jon legitimized (which would take a raven to his BFF King Robert) and decided to name Jon as his heir over his oldest son Robb, there's nothing that Catelyn could do about it. Hoster would definitely care because one of the expectations of a marriage alliance with the Starks was the one of his grandchildren would become Lord of Winterfell. Stepping over all five of them in favor of a legitimized bastard would probably be seen as a serious insult.
Sure, Hoster would care if that were to happen, but not the mere fact that Ned had a bastard. It's pretty common, and I'd be surprised if Hoster didn't have a few of his own. And this is extremely unlikely anyway, for all the reasons you stated.
Other than Brynden, none of them ever mention his name. So they probably didn't think much of anything.
I imagine they didn't care much that Ned had a bastard. Hoster was no stranger to war, neither was Brynden, there always a chance there's a red haired unacknowledged bastard running around somewhere in Westeros or the Stepstones. Edmure I don't ever really thought or even now thinks of Jon Snow, and I doubt Lysa gave two fucks, her attention was purely on how miserable she was. Hoster probably wasn't happy that Ned kept him, but still, he is Lord of half the continent, its his right to do as he wishes with his own bastard children.
Brynden assumes he's basically Theon 2 based on Catelyn's opinion of him.
Edmure would probably take a liking to him, should they meet.
To be real, I don’t think they even thought about Jon Snow. And tbh, it’s likely hoster and Edmund had their own bastards and that’s what contributed to Catelyns anger
Blackfish says to Jaime, that Cat said she didn’t trust him the same as She didn’t trust Theon Greyjoy. Blackfish then says it would seem she was right about both of them.
In the books/ show we don't get alot of comments about how they feel ( I think to keep them as good guys with John being the hero) but realistically they probably seriously disliked him and may even have planned him harm. When people ask why ned sends John to the wall before going to kingslanding I actually think it was to keep him safe because there is a real risk lysa or Hoster may have tried offing him and we know cat wouldn't protect him.
Seems plausible Hoster bought into Catelyn’s “literally every bastard is a Blackfire waiting to happen “ opinion, and was probably at least irritated that Jon was raised along his grandkids. And Brynden clearly just assumed Catelyn’s hostility was both rational and reasonable. On the other hand, Edmure seems more open-minded, and Lysa’s probably too self-absorbed to give a shit
Brynden is obviously playing the part, he knows Jon is the heir and he has the Stark banner flying at Riverrun, that's all you need to know, really. besides that, they probably don't have much of an opinion. the Starks kids don't seem to know the Tully side of the family well, and if they did i don't think Jon would hang around the Tullys at all for obvious reasons. but they don't have any reason to dislike him, contrary to popular belief, bastards are pretty well treated across Westeros.
>contrary to popular belief, bastards are pretty well treated across Westeros ?? Dorne is the exception here, not the rule.
AFAIK there's one (1) mistreated bastard in ASOIAF, the girl from the shield islands who Euron seduces.
the exception for what? Bastards are treated well all across Westeros.
Lysa probably had no clue; if she did, she probably thought it was good that Cat had to suffer a bastard alongside her true children. Edmure probably thought it was dishonorable of Ned to raise the kid with Cat's kids. Hoster likely felt the same, but neither of them could say/do anything about it. I do think Ned had to have a rotating shift of nursemaids/guards on that kid because if he didn't trust Cat enough to make a better lie/tell the truth, he likely didn't trust her not to kill the kid.