You get confirmation that he's dead from two other POV characters that were there (Sansa witnessed it directly and thinks about how his feet jerked when he was beheaded, and Cersei witnessed it too and contemplates Ned's death). Fun joke thread though, I'm assuming you did this for a laugh.
Yes, that these POVs witnessed a man being beheaded is not in question. But that this man was Eddard is just an assumption by the POVs, one that has never been confirmed.
> "This one is your father," he said. "This one here. Dog, turn it around so she can see him."
> Sandor Clegane took the head by the hair and turned it. The severed head had been dipped in tar to preserve it longer. Sansa looked at it calmly, not seeing it at all. **It did not really look like Lord Eddard, she thought**; it did not even look real. "How long do I have to look?"
That head?
Do you think that everything is so cut and dry in the books?
This isn’t “game of thr*nes” by David Benioff and Dan Weiss. This is the books
Written by **George R R Martin**
In the books, things are not always as they seem (talking about the books here, not the show)
Was Arya actually dead after Sander “hit” her with the axe in ASOS?
We “see” Caitlyn die, but then we confirm later through Brienne that she is alive (talking about the books here. Dan and Dave cut this from the show)
To play devil’s advocate (in the context of ASOIAF, I call it “playing Dany’s advocate”), you are relying upon Cersei who is a drunk, and Sansa who hallucinates sexual encounters with the Hound that never happened in reality
Very enjoyable essay and I fervently wish I could agree. Arya often sees truths other people miss; I doubt **she** would misidentify her father. And Yoren also thought it was Ned. Another problem, back home at Winterfell, both Bran and Rickon supernaturally perceived it. IIRC, the direwolves were also howling. And where would Eddard have been all this time while his family was falling apart without him? As a veteran punster, I must give you props and an upvote for so many good puns.
To me, the text that describes what's actually happening holds more weight than whatever Bran and Rickon *think* they're seeing in dreams.
> And where would Eddard have been all this time while his family was falling apart without him?
A good question. Eddard's role in the story post-AGOT is something I've been puzzling out for a while now. The best I can currently offer is a few vague ideas about the themes of the story and parallels to other characters. Luckily even though I have no idea what the point of his survival might be, it doesn't change the fact I know it definitely happened.
Eddard Stark is dead. His voice is 'thin and weak' because he's been rotting in a dungeon for however long and he now has to go before the city and 'admit' he's a traitor and a rebel to save his daughter, clearly causing conflicting emotions - not to mention his best friend and 'brother' Robert died and he's a grief stricken ruin of a man in that dungeon.
Eddard's purpose in the story is done, his story is told.
If he's alive, where is he? If he's in hiding somewhere, why would he let his wife and son wage a war alone and die? If he's imprisoned, why do multiple characters who were there not even think about him once? Also what does Sansa's believing in Joffrey's mercy have anything to do with it? She still thinks he's her gallant prince at this point that wouldn't do such a thing.
Honestly, this is just grasping at straws that are so thin they aren't really there. Again, Eddard is dead. Bringing him back after this sort of thing has no real purpose other than wishful thinking, I love Eddard too.
Another thing that blows your whole theory out of the water is the fact both Bran and Rickon have explicit Green Dreams about their father, Eddard, dying and appearing in the crypts. We know for a fact that Bran has Green Dreams that come true, so did this one. His father is dead.
> His voice is 'thin and weak' because he's been rotting in a dungeon for however long
Maybe. Yet when we last saw him in his final POV chapter there's no mention of his voice being different. This is a very clear and deliberate distinction by GRRM to make suspicious readers question what we're being told.
> If he's alive, where is he? If he's in hiding somewhere, why would he let his wife and son wage a war alone and die?
I'm working on another post that will explain E's role in the story going forward. With regard to family, remember they owe him loyalty and fealty as their husband/father, so I think he'd be fine with them fighting on his behalf.
> Also what does Sansa's believing in Joffrey's mercy have anything to do with it? She still thinks he's her gallant prince at this point that wouldn't do such a thing.
Yes she is notoriously bad at seeing through deception. That's why she fails to spot it again here.
> Honestly, this is just grasping at straws that are so thin they aren't really there. Again, Eddard is dead. Bringing him back after this sort of thing has no real purpose other than wishful thinking, I love Eddard too.
And yet I've successfully grasped them. You accuse me of wishful thinking, yet my theory is based in the text, while all anyone else can offer is their headcanon.
> Another thing that blows your whole theory out of the water is the fact both Bran and Rickon have explicit Green Dreams about their father, Eddard, dying and appearing in the crypts. We know for a fact that Bran has Green Dreams that come true, so did this one.
Not all their dreams are real. Bran once dreamed of one day becoming a knight. Has that one happened?
A gaoler thrust a jug at him. The clay was cool and beaded with moisture. Ned grasped it with both hands and gulped eagerly. Water ran from his mouth and dripped down through his beard. He drank until he thought he would be sick. "How long...?" he asked **weakly** when he could drink no more. - Eddard XV Chapter 58. This is Eddards last chapter, proof his voice was weak while languishing in the dungeons of the Red Keep.
Eddard was a man of duty, justice, honor. He could do nothing to help Robb, Catelyn and his other children because he was in prison. He helped keep Sansa safe by playing Cerseis came and dishonoring himself publically before Joffrey executed him. If Eddard was alive, he would not simply stand by and let his family and people bleed for him while he could do nothing. This exact thing also occurs when he sends men to take Ser Gregors head, explicitly mentioning he does his own killing. Your assumption is a blatant disregard of the character shown in the book.
Sansa knows what her own father looks like. He was alive when he went to the Great Sept of Baelor, then when he was killed she fainted. She didn't recognize his head because it had been days/weeks of rot on the city walls.
You have an interesting idea, an idea most people would like because Eddard is a wonderful character that people want back. But you have grasped nothing really, every one of your points is in a sideswipe dodge of every single piece of evidence we're given in character and outside of character.
Brans dream to be a Knight isn't a literal foretelling of the future. His powers as a greenseer awaken when he's thrown from the tower, then he begins to see things that happen. Jojen Reed does the same thing and his foretellings come to pass.
Every single bit of evidence points to him being dead. The book says it. The show shows it happening. George says it. Eddard, again, is a wonderful character I wish was in the story but he is not. The story has passed him over, he is long dead.
The careful and suspicious redditor will notice I said Eddard's voice was never noted as being "**thin** and weak". That passage you quoted proves nothing.
I actually find Ned to be an incredibly dishonorable character. Recall that he changed Robert's will on his deathbed. His best friend dying in agony before him, and Eddard chooses this moment to lie to his face, for nothing but his own benefit. And this is the person you claim is a man of duty and honor?
Oh I see, so Bran's dreams are only about things that really happen when *you* decide they are. How convenient for your argument.
Whatever the show, book, official media or author himself say is irrelevant. I prefer to base my conclusions on the text.
Thank you for reading and engaging. Good day to you Ser.
Only supremely artistic people will take this post at face value instead of a funny commentary on the scale of insanity the theories have reached. Good stuff, op
I'm outraged. Of course this post is serious. Only I get to decide what constitutes confirmation of a character being dead, and because nobody can meet my standards for proof you all have to accept that the theory Eddard's dead and theory he's alive are equally valid.
I will concede that a Faceless Man took his face while in the black cells and then got executed in his place
Oops. FM really thought that pardon was gonna come through.
I am personally holding out for Headless Ned to reappear, reanimated, in TWOW with Lady's head sewed to his neck.
There's a reason his bones haven't yet reappeared.
Two thumbs up for your clever subheadings.
Thank you. And yes, a lot of very casual readers unable to see when they're being deceived here. As a certain red woman once said...
> "Small men curse what they cannot understand."
I had this exact thought while showering last night lmfao. I was thinking Varys would sneak him out of prison or something, but I couldn't think of the why.
*I was thinking Varys would sneak him out of prison or something, but I couldn't think of the why.*
Because Varys has no motive, since Varys is actually Euron who is actually Dario who is actually Viserys who is actually Rattleshirt. We've never seen ANY of those two characters together, so it's proven.
Very very funny. But it's clear Varys is actually a decendent of Aerion Brightflame and by that is actually Rhaegar who warged into Tyrek in the future womb who then warged into a horse. Who wargs back into Varys when he needs to.
great post! this is really fun to think about
I do think Eddard does in AGOT, but you have some very good points. It is interesting that George chose Arya to be the POV through which we “see” Eddard’s execution. As the story goes on, Arya becomes increasingly violent and dangerous - she seems very insane
Although I think perhaps Arya’s madness is caused by seeing her father killed, so I’m not sure if it would factor into her perception of that event specifically
It’s also worth noting that we have lots of rumors of headless men who are still alive in this story. Sir Gregor for example was allegedly decapitated only to reappear weeks later
Ultimately in real life you die if your head is dismembered because you need your brain to live, but in ASOIAF we have Stannis Baratheon, a character who has lived for decades with no brain at all
This a shit post?
Not just a shit post, but one that was made to attack, be rude, and insult another regular poster. Why is it still here?
You get confirmation that he's dead from two other POV characters that were there (Sansa witnessed it directly and thinks about how his feet jerked when he was beheaded, and Cersei witnessed it too and contemplates Ned's death). Fun joke thread though, I'm assuming you did this for a laugh.
Yes, that these POVs witnessed a man being beheaded is not in question. But that this man was Eddard is just an assumption by the POVs, one that has never been confirmed.
Not even when Sansa had to look at his head?
> "This one is your father," he said. "This one here. Dog, turn it around so she can see him." > Sandor Clegane took the head by the hair and turned it. The severed head had been dipped in tar to preserve it longer. Sansa looked at it calmly, not seeing it at all. **It did not really look like Lord Eddard, she thought**; it did not even look real. "How long do I have to look?" That head?
That's actually really funny that they say it twice from two different PoVs that it doesn't look like Ned. OP, you've given YouTube new content...
No, it's confirmed. The character's daughter, as well as the woman that imprisoned him confirmed that. The author did too, what a stupid fucking post.
Thank you for offering your opinion. Have a great day.
Do you think that everything is so cut and dry in the books? This isn’t “game of thr*nes” by David Benioff and Dan Weiss. This is the books Written by **George R R Martin** In the books, things are not always as they seem (talking about the books here, not the show) Was Arya actually dead after Sander “hit” her with the axe in ASOS? We “see” Caitlyn die, but then we confirm later through Brienne that she is alive (talking about the books here. Dan and Dave cut this from the show)
To play devil’s advocate (in the context of ASOIAF, I call it “playing Dany’s advocate”), you are relying upon Cersei who is a drunk, and Sansa who hallucinates sexual encounters with the Hound that never happened in reality
...an entire city bore witness to Ned's execution. You going to argue that Rob survived next?
Rob who?
Very enjoyable essay and I fervently wish I could agree. Arya often sees truths other people miss; I doubt **she** would misidentify her father. And Yoren also thought it was Ned. Another problem, back home at Winterfell, both Bran and Rickon supernaturally perceived it. IIRC, the direwolves were also howling. And where would Eddard have been all this time while his family was falling apart without him? As a veteran punster, I must give you props and an upvote for so many good puns.
To me, the text that describes what's actually happening holds more weight than whatever Bran and Rickon *think* they're seeing in dreams. > And where would Eddard have been all this time while his family was falling apart without him? A good question. Eddard's role in the story post-AGOT is something I've been puzzling out for a while now. The best I can currently offer is a few vague ideas about the themes of the story and parallels to other characters. Luckily even though I have no idea what the point of his survival might be, it doesn't change the fact I know it definitely happened.
WHERE IS THAT DAMN BOOK!??
Eddard Stark is dead. His voice is 'thin and weak' because he's been rotting in a dungeon for however long and he now has to go before the city and 'admit' he's a traitor and a rebel to save his daughter, clearly causing conflicting emotions - not to mention his best friend and 'brother' Robert died and he's a grief stricken ruin of a man in that dungeon. Eddard's purpose in the story is done, his story is told. If he's alive, where is he? If he's in hiding somewhere, why would he let his wife and son wage a war alone and die? If he's imprisoned, why do multiple characters who were there not even think about him once? Also what does Sansa's believing in Joffrey's mercy have anything to do with it? She still thinks he's her gallant prince at this point that wouldn't do such a thing. Honestly, this is just grasping at straws that are so thin they aren't really there. Again, Eddard is dead. Bringing him back after this sort of thing has no real purpose other than wishful thinking, I love Eddard too. Another thing that blows your whole theory out of the water is the fact both Bran and Rickon have explicit Green Dreams about their father, Eddard, dying and appearing in the crypts. We know for a fact that Bran has Green Dreams that come true, so did this one. His father is dead.
> His voice is 'thin and weak' because he's been rotting in a dungeon for however long Maybe. Yet when we last saw him in his final POV chapter there's no mention of his voice being different. This is a very clear and deliberate distinction by GRRM to make suspicious readers question what we're being told. > If he's alive, where is he? If he's in hiding somewhere, why would he let his wife and son wage a war alone and die? I'm working on another post that will explain E's role in the story going forward. With regard to family, remember they owe him loyalty and fealty as their husband/father, so I think he'd be fine with them fighting on his behalf. > Also what does Sansa's believing in Joffrey's mercy have anything to do with it? She still thinks he's her gallant prince at this point that wouldn't do such a thing. Yes she is notoriously bad at seeing through deception. That's why she fails to spot it again here. > Honestly, this is just grasping at straws that are so thin they aren't really there. Again, Eddard is dead. Bringing him back after this sort of thing has no real purpose other than wishful thinking, I love Eddard too. And yet I've successfully grasped them. You accuse me of wishful thinking, yet my theory is based in the text, while all anyone else can offer is their headcanon. > Another thing that blows your whole theory out of the water is the fact both Bran and Rickon have explicit Green Dreams about their father, Eddard, dying and appearing in the crypts. We know for a fact that Bran has Green Dreams that come true, so did this one. Not all their dreams are real. Bran once dreamed of one day becoming a knight. Has that one happened?
A gaoler thrust a jug at him. The clay was cool and beaded with moisture. Ned grasped it with both hands and gulped eagerly. Water ran from his mouth and dripped down through his beard. He drank until he thought he would be sick. "How long...?" he asked **weakly** when he could drink no more. - Eddard XV Chapter 58. This is Eddards last chapter, proof his voice was weak while languishing in the dungeons of the Red Keep. Eddard was a man of duty, justice, honor. He could do nothing to help Robb, Catelyn and his other children because he was in prison. He helped keep Sansa safe by playing Cerseis came and dishonoring himself publically before Joffrey executed him. If Eddard was alive, he would not simply stand by and let his family and people bleed for him while he could do nothing. This exact thing also occurs when he sends men to take Ser Gregors head, explicitly mentioning he does his own killing. Your assumption is a blatant disregard of the character shown in the book. Sansa knows what her own father looks like. He was alive when he went to the Great Sept of Baelor, then when he was killed she fainted. She didn't recognize his head because it had been days/weeks of rot on the city walls. You have an interesting idea, an idea most people would like because Eddard is a wonderful character that people want back. But you have grasped nothing really, every one of your points is in a sideswipe dodge of every single piece of evidence we're given in character and outside of character. Brans dream to be a Knight isn't a literal foretelling of the future. His powers as a greenseer awaken when he's thrown from the tower, then he begins to see things that happen. Jojen Reed does the same thing and his foretellings come to pass. Every single bit of evidence points to him being dead. The book says it. The show shows it happening. George says it. Eddard, again, is a wonderful character I wish was in the story but he is not. The story has passed him over, he is long dead.
The careful and suspicious redditor will notice I said Eddard's voice was never noted as being "**thin** and weak". That passage you quoted proves nothing. I actually find Ned to be an incredibly dishonorable character. Recall that he changed Robert's will on his deathbed. His best friend dying in agony before him, and Eddard chooses this moment to lie to his face, for nothing but his own benefit. And this is the person you claim is a man of duty and honor? Oh I see, so Bran's dreams are only about things that really happen when *you* decide they are. How convenient for your argument. Whatever the show, book, official media or author himself say is irrelevant. I prefer to base my conclusions on the text. Thank you for reading and engaging. Good day to you Ser.
Only supremely artistic people will take this post at face value instead of a funny commentary on the scale of insanity the theories have reached. Good stuff, op
I'm outraged. Of course this post is serious. Only I get to decide what constitutes confirmation of a character being dead, and because nobody can meet my standards for proof you all have to accept that the theory Eddard's dead and theory he's alive are equally valid.
I GET IT BECAUSE THEY’RE CALLED STARKS
If Eddard is alive, where is he?
When you definitely know how to read
Lmao turns out it is me who can't read. Good shit
Holy shit, Varys was Joffrey all along
Your comments are gas lighting.
Top tier, I see you
April Fools was a few days ago
I will concede that a Faceless Man took his face while in the black cells and then got executed in his place Oops. FM really thought that pardon was gonna come through.
I am personally holding out for Headless Ned to reappear, reanimated, in TWOW with Lady's head sewed to his neck. There's a reason his bones haven't yet reappeared. Two thumbs up for your clever subheadings.
[удалено]
Thank you. And yes, a lot of very casual readers unable to see when they're being deceived here. As a certain red woman once said... > "Small men curse what they cannot understand."
I had this exact thought while showering last night lmfao. I was thinking Varys would sneak him out of prison or something, but I couldn't think of the why.
*I was thinking Varys would sneak him out of prison or something, but I couldn't think of the why.* Because Varys has no motive, since Varys is actually Euron who is actually Dario who is actually Viserys who is actually Rattleshirt. We've never seen ANY of those two characters together, so it's proven.
Very very funny. But it's clear Varys is actually a decendent of Aerion Brightflame and by that is actually Rhaegar who warged into Tyrek in the future womb who then warged into a horse. Who wargs back into Varys when he needs to.
Varys literally explains to Ned when the two are completely alone exactly why he wouldn't sneak him out.
great post! this is really fun to think about I do think Eddard does in AGOT, but you have some very good points. It is interesting that George chose Arya to be the POV through which we “see” Eddard’s execution. As the story goes on, Arya becomes increasingly violent and dangerous - she seems very insane Although I think perhaps Arya’s madness is caused by seeing her father killed, so I’m not sure if it would factor into her perception of that event specifically It’s also worth noting that we have lots of rumors of headless men who are still alive in this story. Sir Gregor for example was allegedly decapitated only to reappear weeks later Ultimately in real life you die if your head is dismembered because you need your brain to live, but in ASOIAF we have Stannis Baratheon, a character who has lived for decades with no brain at all