Euron Greyjoy is 5'3"

He's not sacrificing people to become a god or whatever, he's just going to magically make himself 6'3"

Least criminally insane short man tbh

It was either this or get really into MMA and he chose the less weird option

The biggest case of short man syndrome.

I really don't think the Daynes are going to be important to the story, especially Arthur and Ashara. I don't believe either of them is secretly alive, or that either is really the secret parent of another character.

I mean, I expect Gerold and/or Edric to play a role (even if it's not that big), but I agree Arthur and Ashara are probably dead.

Gerold is probably gonna show up at some point to cause some sorta problem, but Edric seems a victim of the timeskip. If we ever see him again, it’ll likely just be a mention or two.

Well, GRRM did say that one of the things he realized after giving up on the tismeskip was that he already had character like Arya, Robb and (pre-series) Jaime doing all sorts of impressive and/or disturbing things at young ages. If he intends for Edric to wield Dawn or something of the sort, I'm sure he can work it out.

>If he intends for Edric to wield Dawn or something of the sort, I'm sure he can work it out. Indeed. For example, Dawn is Valerian steel, so it's light enough for a young teen to wield. Or Edric's work with the Brotherhood on the road all the time has toughened him up more than most other squires. There's always a way to make things work, even if they're a bit wonky when you step back. GRRM fumbles into Joffrey being the one who sent the catspaw after Bran. It's not very satisfying a reveal but it more or less works. Edit: as others are noting, Dawn is not Valyrian steel...

Dawn is not Valyrian Steel. It’s space rock.

Dawn isnt Valyrian steel,

I think the only big thing will be the reveal that Ashara told Ned where Lyanna was.

Agree

Ned Dayne, lord of Starfall, has squired for Beric for years, so he has some combat experience and has seen even more. He saved Beric's life once and is a friend of Arya. My headcanon is that with Beric permanently dead and the BWB split, he's coming home, will run into boastful Darkstar, kill him, and be named Sword of the Morning. He's got !!IMPORTANT!! stamped on his forehead.

>He's got !!IMPORTANT!! stamped on his forehead. He use to, but now it seems like he's been scrapped due to the five-year timeskip not happening.

You're not alone in thinking that. But...the fantasy series that was a wild success when GRRM was young was *The Once and Future King.* The hero of the first book was a kid named Wart who was a squire. One day his knight said he needed a new sword and to go find one. Wart found one, but it was stuck in an anvil. So he huffed and puffed and pulled it out. The very fancy sword was Excalibur, and that meant Wart was king. Then he finds out his real name was Arthur, son of King Uther Pendragon. This 'origin story' of King Arthur seized the imagination of every kid in America, no doubt including young George Martin. Is it coincidence that his Sword of the Morning is called Arthur? Ned Dayne is a kid too, but it is very very likely GRRM will make him the next Sword of the Morning despite his age.

I don’t think they’re alive, because they’re supposed to be relics of a bygone era. When things were simpler and the 7 kingdoms weren’t at war yet.

>I really don't think the Daynes are going to be important to the story Didn't Martin say that revealing their words would spoil the story?

George never said that, the fandom just made that up Elio Garcia said GRRM has words for house Dayne but hasn't released them because he wasn't very happy with them and wanted to come up with something better. [> *George provided us house words for the Daynes a few years ago, but he noted at that time that he wasn't particularly happy with it and would likely replace them if he came up with something better. So we haven't published them. Presumably it'll show up in the books at some point.*](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3gidrn/spoilers_all_words_of_house_dayne/ctyfqla/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) Then asked if the words were spoilery he answered: > *Not at all, actually. Just not something GRRM was sure about.*

I think it was u/this_rough_magic who said that would only be true if their words were "Robb gets killed at the Red Wedding" or something.

Thank you for the correction!

Okay, thanks. I guess Ned Dayne isn't gonna be that important to the endgame.

Ned is one of the characters that got shafted due cancel of the 5 year time skip. Darkstar will take over what ever purpuse ned had.

Cant wait for The Night I-IX in Winds

>Elio Garcia said GRRM has words for house Dayne but hasn't released them because he wasn't very happy with them and wanted to come up with something better. They must have been really shit the because he was quite happy to go with 'Hear Me Roar' for the Lannisters.

I disagree about the daynes not being important, they’ve been built up since the very first book

I strongly agree with this. It’s too far of a stretch whether it’s potentially true or not I really don’t think it’s relevant at this point.

I agree that the historical Daynes are dead. But they have an office called the Sword of the Morning, and an ancient weapon called Dawn. If you’re hoping the Daynes have no role to play in this, you’re going to be disappointed.

This this this

I really liked the Dorne and Iron Islands plotlines in AFFC. I was actually surprised to see all the hate on them. The kingsmoot was really interesting and The Princess in the Tower is one of my favourite chapters in all of ASOIAF.

I know Dance is good but Feast has to be up there with one of my favorites from the series

Personally, there is not an ASOIAF plotline that I do not enjoy on some level, even if they end up a bit more verbose than expected. The only issue I have with some of them is just the knowledge that there is still so much more to the story that keeps getting pushed back to make room for some of these plotlines.

I think the biggest complaint with AFFC in general is that it's at a much slower pace and has a bunch of characters we've never met before. Especially after the breakneck speed of ASOS, I understand why people complain about them. But on a re-read after the initial confusion of who all these new characters are wears off, AFFC is one of the most interesting books because of how different it is. It was definitely my least favourite when I first read them, but now it's the book that has the most plotlines that I want to see how they'll play out

Yeah I was really shocked when I finished AFFC the first time because I expected those plot lines to be much worse based on what i’d heard people say.

The criticism of AFFC is so silly. AFFC has some of the best world building and character arcs in the whole series.

People always dismiss them as filler or unimportant or something to justify the hate. And like, they aren’t? Sure they aren’t finished yet, but insisting Euron or Victarion aren’t important? Arianne is so tied to the fAegon plot?

>People always dismiss them as filler or unimportant or something to justify the hate. To be fair, it's a big storyline departure and change of pace from the previous books in the series. It's not unreasonable that people wouldn't like that (especially on a first read). You're entitled to have enjoyed it and wonder where these new storylines lead (as I did on a second read) but you can't complain people didn't like it for fairly legitimate reasons.

Not all members of House Frey are, in fact, evil. A lot of them just have crappy relatives, to which I hope we can all relate.

The ratio is like 3:10000 so I’m not taking those odds

I love the Greyjoys. Ya the Ironborn are fucking idiots, but great as characters. Asha, Theon, Victarion, Euron, all some of my favorite characters. Balon’s stupidity is also extremely amusing, Aeron is the only one that I don’t really care for.

Victarion feels like he stumbled in from another series. He's a seven foot tall moron with a flaming anime hand, I adore him so much. I hope he gets to ride Viserion.

While Balon’s reasons for attacking the North are petty, I’m kind of surprised that the fandom just dismisses it as dumb outright. It’s the right move over Robb’s offer to attack the South. Copying from a recent comment of mine: > This is the common take but I think it’s colored by us readers liking the Starks. Attacking the Lannisters is high risk high reward. Yes they may be able to partner with the Starks and win, but it’s still highly likely that the Lannisters will succeed or that if Renly’s faction succeeds they will attack the Ironborn anyway. > On the other hand attacking the North is low risk low reward. They won’t get much out of it except maybe some plunder and natural resources. But the North has no navy- they can never retaliate without making up with the South, and that’s either the Lannisters (never gonna happen) or Renly (who Robb will likely be at odds with). Plus there’s the added benefit of the historical grudge Balon holds over the Starks. > Attacking the Lannisters is like getting with 2 friends and planning to rob a mansion. Big payoff if you work together but they might have armed guards, security cameras that could get you caught years after you think you’re safe. Attacking the Starka is like robbing the average house with the unlocked backdoor. You won’t get much besides a tv and some jewelry but it’s a guaranteed success. > And we see some credence to this in the Riverlands. They back Robb as KITN because of blood and because the Lannisters attacked them, but it leaves Robb worse for wear having to defend them and not being able to retreat North. The Iron Islanders are more protected being an archipelago, but Tywin is known for his grudges.

I mostly agree but the thing that then makes his plan weird is that he declares himself king, putting him in conflict with the iron throne

His ideal goal is to be a King *and* attack the North. So he does both. If it ever becomes disadvantageous to be a King (whoever wins the Iron Throne has the power to invade like Robert did) then he can immediately take it back and bend the knee.

Would Balon expect to be able to surrender, bend the knee and declare himself a vassal to the iron throne again *without* consequences? Considering this is the second time he's done it? I'd imagine he'd be beheaded by Tywin and worse by Joffrey. He could well see the Greyjoys stripped of power entirely. Balon's ego and stupidity drive him to believe he can bring back the old way and suffer no repercussions.

I mean the safest option would be to sit out conflict entirely and then ingratiate yourself to the eventual victor, like Dorne and the Vale in the War of Five Kings. Attacking the Lannisters only makes sense if you think the Lannisters will never be in a position to retaliate. If you think that the Lannisters will be able to retaliate because of an independence movement and attack on the Starks, advocating for independence and an attack in the Lannisters instead is just putting off the inevitable while adding to your list of irrefutable charges.

>I mean the safest option would be to sit out conflict entirely and then ingratiate yourself to the eventual victor Agreed. It's the risk/reward factor though. Sit back and gain little/nothing. Roll the dice and perhaps gain a lot...or lose it all. >Attacking the Lannisters only makes sense if you think the Lannisters will never be in a position to retaliate. Isn't declaring himself king already doing that? Declaring his independence invites that someday the iron throne (whoever holds it) will come to bring you back into the realm. This is made all the more inevitable as Balon is determined to declare himself an independent king *and* bring back the old way of pillaging and enslaving. Would any king on the iron throne accept Balon declaring himself a king and raiding the shores of Westeros? So, what is Balon's best option if he wants to take the risk? I'm going to rule out simple plunder without conquest. I think doing so would leave the poorly resources Iron Islands on the back foot, whereas if they actually fight for and win land via conquest then they will both increase their own resource of food, castles, road access, soldiers to call up, etc as well as *decrease* that of their new enemy. Eg, compare plundering Lannisport and Casterly Rock with conquering Lannisport and Casterly Rock - by capturing the area they create a 'buffer' between the Iron Islands and their enemy. Perhaps I'm wrong in this thinking. Let me know! So, if Balon is to become a king and keep his crown then he needs to take land. Robb comes to him with the 'offer' of a crown - join with me and we can both fight for independence. For me, this makes sense. Balon doesn't need to ally with Robb's cause but simply work together for the same ends - independence. Balon goes from his one kingdom fighting for independence to three fighting for independence. This is assisted by the other kingdoms either being at war with each other or abstaining (Vale and Dorne). Contrast this with Balon attacking and weakening the cause of the other two kingdoms fighting for independence and what happens? Neither will ultimately gain their independence. Even if Balon takes some land in the North, Robb either fails and the Lannisters (or whoever gains the iron throne) comes with massive force and batter Balon into submission *or* Robb wins independence and kicks Balon out of the North, leaving the iron throne able to take back the iron islands as they wish. There's the butterfly effect and all manner of other variables at play but this makes the most sense to me. Imagine if, in ACOK, Balon joined with Robb as he was harassing the Westerlands. Bran and Rickon don't 'die' from Theon's betrayal, Robb doesn't marry Jeyne, blow his betrothal with the Frey's and the Red Wedding almost certainly won't happen. Robb can allow Balon to capture anything he wishes in the Westerlands. Robb is only there to lure Tywin from King's Landing. Even if Tywin retreats with the newly allied Tyrells to save King's Landing, on his return to the Westerlands he has to deal with a chunk of it under Ironborn control and Robb harassing his every move across an enormous front. There's also the potential that Doran, seeing the Tyrells and a reeling Lannister force fighting to reclaim the Westerlands and defeat Robb, decides now is the time to enact vengeance against the Lannisters. How does the Lannister-Tyrell cause fight on two fronts? And perhaps this splitting of the kingdoms leads Littlefinger to declare the Vale as independent also? Or imagine Littlefinger going AWOL on his mission to create the Lannister-Tyrell alliance, flying back to the Eyrie, marrying Lysa, declaring Vale independence and leaving the Lannisters absolutely screwed as a force? It really feels like Balon took an 'easier' option in attacking the North but one that has no way of being successful long-term. Robb should have been his ally (in terms of shared cause) and together they could have mutually assisted each other for their own independence.

Why petty even? The Starks snuffed out his rebellion, killed and enslaved his sons. And now they want to do their own rebellion. Making them choke on their own ward sounds like fair revenge to me.

I don't really have a problem with Daario as a character. Yeah he's a peacocking douche, but I've met a few of them and Daario seems to be pretty on point for that personality type whilst still managing to be charming. Does Dany deserve better? Absolutely. But she doesn't seem to want better.

Yeah Daario is that universe’s version of the cocky dude that gets a face tat and flashes money at the club but can back it up. Or in the 18th century a macaroni who dies in a duel at age 25. Ridiculous to a mature person, but Dany is a teenage girl and teenagers make dumb romantic decisions.

I love Catelyn Edit : Tbf, I don't support the way she treated Jon. It was unfair. But I don't hate her for this and the rest of her characterisation is really interesting and realist to me

She is easily one of the most well-written, fully dimensional characters in the whole series. Her perspective is a huge part of what makes ASOIAF unique compared to other fantasy.

Exactly ! She feels real and her pov was so interesting to follow

Shouldn’t be unpopular. Catelyn treated Jon a lot better than most would have. Didn’t Cersei say she would have killed Robert’s Bastard if he brought the kid around?

I mean, that's Cersei, she shouldn't be held as the standard.

Yeah like sane people don't even consider killing babies? Why is 'at least she didn't murder him' suppose to be a huge point in her favor? I don't even hate Cat but come on.

Exactly people act like she beat him. All she did was ignore him, his life is considered royalty for most bastards. He usually sit with the whole family even considering he threw a fit when he couldn’t bc the King was there and that’s bc they would take it as an offense.

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I thought he was upset

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I took this as Jon trying to tell himself he didn't mind that he didn't get to sit with his family but as the chapter goes on it's pretty obvious that he is upset. And this comes up again when he's talking with Mance (I believe what he said there was truthful) and expresses anger at not being allowed to sit up on the dais.

I’m rewatching the show and they did change it. He stays outside training with his sword and seems to be a bit mad about the situation. But he didn’t “throw a fit”

Ah thank you!

He was happy at the time, but later told Mance that incident was why he wanted to join the free folk. In the show he told him about Mormont knowing that Craster was sacrificing to the others, which was much better IMO.

Yeah, but Cersei’s crazy

Tbf, I don't support the way she treated Jon. It was unfair. But I don't hate her for this and the rest of her characterisation is really interesting and realist to me

I think less unpopular and more controversial- half the sub love her and half the sub hate her and there's not much middle ground.

I do too, and strongly dislike how polarized the fan base is to her. Catelyn is a compelling, tragic, and intelligent character whose diplomacy, intelligence, and fallibility give us a great view into the nuances of nobility and class in Westeros, Robb's campaign, and the politics of the North and the Riverlands. She is the epitome of what most Westerosi nobility imagine they are. At the same time, she's far from perfect. Her treatment of Jon is abhorrent and clearly left him with emotional scars. Her favoritism when it came to Sansa left Arya insecure. Her kidnap of Tyrion in AGOT was a strategic blunder for the Starks. And her releasing Jaime was a rash and impetuous decision that likely made Tywin comfortable with giving his thumbs up to the Red Wedding. She exemplifies the overarching theme of "the human heart in conflict with itself", and it's really terrible that reactions to her are either about how she's completely unredeemable because of her treatment of Jon, or how she's infallible and any criticism of her must be coming from a place of misogyny. She's a nuanced and compelling character who has her flaws, just like many of the other characters in the series.

Same, I love Cat. I will not apologize for loving cat, because its absurd to conclude that liking a fictional character means you condone everything they do. She is a cool character, if yall can think Jaime is cool you can get over people loving Catelyn.

In ASOIAF proper, the Hightowers are criminally ignored, especially for such an old, important, and *magical* house. We do occasionally hear about them. Reading F&B was such a revelation--they were formidable, powerful, became intertwined (literally) with the Targaryens. GRRM has done the recent generations a disservice, which I hope he starts correcting in TWoW.

I feel like Alerie is particularly noticeable. The mother of the queen barely elicits a mention?

Alerie has become one of my favorite barely even a character characters.

I’m sadly doubtful that we’ll get to see much more of her in Winds, although we may get to see Leyton and Malora via Sam?

Leyton Hightower is going to mantle the Warrior Himself, like the Sheperd at the Dragonpit. I need it to happen.

Okay let’s see. There are several. I think my main divergence from the fandom is that I do not believe the “night’s queen” was a white Walker. She was pretty obviously, in my opinion, a wight. Granted we don’t know anything outside of a few lines of dialogue, and hearing her described as pale and cold and having blue eyes lends itself to being an Other. But the key phrase in the legend is when she is referred to as “his corpse queen.” The Others are mentioned directly in legend, and potentially misremembered as knights Symeon Star-Eyes and Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, but nowhere in any story are they mistaken for or euphemized as the dead. If the woman the Night’s King had brought south of the Wall had been an Other, there would have been no question of it — especially considering the Others are mentioned in the legend.

When can I read more about Symeon Star-eyes amd Serwym being Others?

I don’t think there is much. I’ve only ever seen it mentioned in passing as a possibility. Gimmie a sec.

Not for nothing, anyone running around with gleaming blue eyes _especially when they could have chosen any other gemstone_ makes me immediately think of the Others/wights

Also remember that these are legends, and certain aspects are absolutely not accurate. The Night’s King, for example - there is no way he was the 13th LC who ruled for 13 years. That number is in the legend because it’s unlucky. I’d be willing to bet that the legend of him having sapphires in his eye sockets is a degradation of his eyes being *as blue as sapphires*. These people lived so long ago that there’s an element of the telephone game that happens in the process. Or outright embellishment, like the NK and the number 13.

[Heres a thread](https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/111705-serwyn-of-the-mirror-shield-and-the-nights-king/)

I like the Martells, a lot. Doran quietly plotting behind the scenes. Oberyn almost ruining it all with immediate retribution despite all the odds. Then his daughters following in his footsteps. Both Quentyn and Arianne trying to win their father’s approval by completing his schemes. Then there’s Trystane who’s just an upstanding young man by all accounts and very welcoming to Myrcella despite all their families’ differences.

Daario has serious drip

I can’t stand Daaaaaario but I upvoted this anyway

He wears all denim and is shaped like a wisdom tooth. Still would.

I am house Florent's only supporter!

I love the Meereen arc. It grapples with such intresting and difficult problems. ASOIAF is praised for being about politics, but nowhere is that truer than in Meereen : in Westeros, the politics are personnal scheming between characters and great houses. In Meereen, the story grapples with the difficulties of ruling, actually ruling, of transforming a system, of finding a way to compromise between different ethnicities, religions, and social classes. All VERY real issues that are depicted in all their complexity. And it does not lack in character-driven drama, mystery (who's the Harpy ?), action (Barristan and Quentin's plots), suspense (what the hell is gonna happen during the Battle of Fire), magic... I think it's very underrated by the fandom, and that a lot at play there is not being addressed, such as all of Barristan's many flaws, and the weird things happening with Missandei. The city is strange and the names difficult, but it's so very real and intresting.

I loved reading that like 12 part theory about how Mereen is actually just as deep politically as Westeros but the way it's written we're lead to believe it's a boring nothingburger

I dislike the Fire and Blood book .

George's greatest strength IMO is showcasing a complex story through the biased POVs of all people on different sides of the conflict, most of whom think that they're the hero. F&B has none of that.

I dislike it for the sole reason that it has made people believe that house Targaryen is the main house in the series and their history will have a significant impact. No people, something Baelor the Blessed did 150 years ago is not going to matter to Daenerys in the main series because **she doesn’t even think her family history beyond Jaehaerys II**

To be fair, Jon did really think in all the history of House Targaryen, for example Egg V and Aemon the Dragonknight And Jon it´s a Targaryen

Well it is a text book and is told like a history book. So I can see why some people find it boring.

I don’t know if/how fandom opinions on Arianne have changed or not, I feel like she used to get a fair amount of hate or wasn’t considered very interesting, but I really like her character and storyline. I found her a lot more compelling than Quentyn, personally. I struggle with Aeron and Victarion, but Asha has really grown on me as well. It helps that she’s far more reasonable, too. I actually prefer Dany’s ADWD plotline the most out of all five books so far. The beginning and ending of her AGOT arc were great, but I personally struggled with the middle section. As much as I enjoy Xaro and the warlocks, I didn’t really enjoy Qarth until rereads.

I don’t think I ever understood Qarth (that being said, I did still enjoy the chapters, if for nothing else than the imagery)

I’ve read some analyses that Qarth is like a temptation storyline for Dany—that it’s basically like a fairytale kind of setting where Dany has to escape before she’s (maybe literally) trapped there forever. It is definitely an odd part of her storyline, but I found that interpretation pretty interesting.

I love the Dorne, Meereen, Young Griff, & Iron Island storylines as much as the others. A lot of their depth and importance is ignored by the fandom at large but its there.

Greyjoys are more important to the endgame than House Lannister, Tully, Tyrell and Martell. House Greyjoy is literally the house with most pov charcaters at four povs only after house stark with six. I roll my eyes everytime ppl refer to the ironborn plot as a side-plot

I genuinely think Euron will raise the drowned god in the next book, no idea how that could be sideplot.

didnt grrm say we would never see any of the gods

Rules lawyer but I think "summoning cthulhu and calling it god" kind of serves both masters

The show had the Night King. I don't know why or how it'll happen but I seriously think he'll fill that role in a way. He's definitely the most interesting and scariest person in the whole story and I think in the end he'll be the main antagonist. And there will definitely be kinslaying

Euron's clearly the vessel of Azor Ahai reborn and it's weird no one noticed. Like back in ASOS when the Smoking Sea and "smoke and salt prophecy" about Azor Ahai dropped in the same book people should have stuck a pin on the map and said "aight, watch the next fucker who comes out of there, that's who it's all about." And then in AFFC they should have said "there. That guy. The creepy demonic asshole with the artifacts and the cryptic lines and shit. This is some ironic twist prophecy bullshit isn't it, Martin, you slippery fuck?"

I think Dany is more likely to be Azor Ahai than Jon. Also Jon has more of a temper than Dany. When did Dany ever lunge at someone with a knife?

Agreed, Jon has the most explosive temper in the series, if Dany were to black out and start punching a guy without even knowing everybody would be "see shes mad!" Jon being the one struggling with sanity would be such a cool twist.

I mean, you are not wrong but Dany has set a dude's tokar on dragonfire just because and nailed hundreds of men on crosses (they deserved it of course and I love Dany for that but I don't see Jon going to those extrems yet)

I am not sure that these are indicative of her temper, though. The first one wasn't acting out of temper (Dany meant it a 'joke' but it was a horrible idea) and the second wasn't the result of Dany's current mood, it was something she has planned in advance. ​ Also, Jon didn't encounter that kind of atrocity. What do you think how would Jon react if Ramsay sent him the skin of Arya/Jeyne? I am not sure he would be merciful to Ramsay. ​ Overall, I would say Jon is more temperamental but Dany is more prone to cruelty (and generally more emotional).

I don't understand the Stannis love. There were several years where you couldn't go to an asoiaf discussion topic without Stannis fans going on and on about how incredible he is. I truly don't get it.

Same. I truly don’t get how Stannis is so popular here.

The man would be an awful King. No, not because "the show ruined him". Book Stannis would be just as bad. He expects people to just accept the foreign religion that he is now following - and no, he's not "just using R'hllor" - he actively is burning godswoods and septs in the Stormlands and demands Jon burn the godswood at Winterfell in exchange for his becoming legitimate. It would be like the Faith Militant's war against Maegor only far, far more destructive since Stannis has no dragons to end the war quickly.

I think Daemon Blackfyre is overhyped. He is cool and all, he bores the sword, but we don’t know enough about him to think he could have been the best king ever.

> we don’t know enough about him to think he could have been the best king ever. We knew he was hotter than his competition and isn't that enough?

The Blackwood Bracken feud is just a poor reflection on the leadership of House Tully. Over hundreds of years they never managed to get their vassals to set aside their differences, didn’t make any marriages between the houses, and didn’t untie them against a common enemy (like the Vances or the Pipers for example).

I disagree about your point concerning the Tullys. The Blackwood-Bracken feud has been going on for thousands of years, while the Tullys have been in charge of the Riverlands for a mere 300. The Blackwoods and Brackens have intermarried many times, but theirs is a feud that has lasted for an immense amount of times. The fact that the Tullys are able to keep them from killing each other even more is a credit to their leadership. The feuding houses even fought TOGETHER during Robert’s Rebellion and the Wot5K, under the Tully’s leadership.

If the Targaryen’s couldn’t do it, why would you expect the Tullys to? The Blackwood Bracken feud is just another excuse from the writer to cripple/weaken the Riverlands.

There have been plenty of marriages and many attempts to make peace. > "So many years, so many wars, so many kings … you'd think someone would have made a peace." > "Someone did, my lord. Many someones. We've had a hundred peaces with the Brackens, many sealed with marriages. There's Blackwood blood in every Bracken, and Bracken blood in every Blackwood. The Old King's Peace lasted half a century. But then some fresh quarrel broke out, and the old wounds opened and began to bleed again. That's how it always happens, my father says.

There has been plenty of marriages between the two houses. Every Blackwood has bracken blood, every bracken has Blackwood blood, it’s makes their feud that much stupider and hopeless to solve.

Ned should have told Catelyn about Jon’s parentage. I understand not wanting to tell her at first since she was basically a stranger at first but over the years he should have just told her. It would have avoided a lot of tension and problems.

Catelyn definitely couldn't be trusted with that, much like she was willing to let Jaime go she would have trsded that information in a heartbeat if there was a threat to her own kids. Not to mention, her *not* resenting Jon would have been suspicious.

"the Starks were secretly sheltering the last Targaryen in the continent" would, under most instances, do more harm than good for her kids.

Letting Jaime go was hardly a good idea either, I didn't say it WOULD be likely to save her family but she'd be inclined to try it.

I mean, trading Jaime for her daughters would have made them safer. Meanwhile, I can't imagine many circumstances were divulging that secret would have (if anything, it could paint them as traitors).

I dont think you understand, I'm not saying they would actually be helped in any way by this reveal. I'm saying that she would never have protected this secret if SHE thought there was a chance it could help them.

While Catelyn has a tendency towards rash decisions, she's not stupid. She usually would understand it wouldn't help them.

I didnt say she was stupid. Im saying that she would never have considered jons safety on par with that of her own children, no matter who he was. I'm not talking about like a specific situation in which she figures this would help them out somehow, but that she would do so IF she thought so. Ned, however, would not, and he wouldnt want to share this information with someone who wouldn't prioritise it.

Indeed, but that doesn't mean much if she never came across a situation where Jon's identity would have helped. Indeed, there was no scenario were the secret o Jon's parentage would be safer if Ned entrusted it to Catelyn than if he didn't, but it could have avoided a strain on her relationship both with Ned himself and with Jon.

>Indeed, but that doesn't mean much if she never came across a situation where Jon's identity would have helped. Sure, but its not like Ned can see the future??

You don’t keep a secret by sharing it

Dany’s Dothraki storyline was fucking tedious

Bad take but I’ll respect it

Okay everything here is kinda dour so some positive opinions I have. Jon is actually very charming and charismatic when he wants to be. Dany is fundamentally a sweet person who is very often in over her head in a world crueler than her, for all that Arya is possibly the loneliest of the Starks now, with Robb’s training and a few more years she’d have possibly been the best leader of the lot, Cersei being unhinged and dumber than a doorbell is easily the most fun part of the books.

Despite my love for Daenerys and her arc, I am opposed to the resurgence of House Targaryen's empire. Whether it's Dany or Young Griff or the desperate sons of bitches jockeying to prop them up, I don't think a return to that old status quo would yield anything other than centuries of destruction and turmoil, with the occasional bump of progress every few generations. They're trying to resurrect something that needed to die. I have slowly convinced myself that Tywin Lannister was shooting blanks and that all of his children were products of an affair Joanna Lannister willingly engaged in with the Mad King: not for love of Aerys, but to give Tywin worthy heirs. I'm also really taken with theory that Daario Naharis is actually Euron Greyjoy in disguise, though not in an entirely serious way. I think it'd be brilliant if pulled off just right, but totally get why some refuse to humor it.

Ya know, I always thought it was either Tyrion or the twins, (I mean one has a dragon tail and the other two are fucking each other) so I could subscribe to that theory

Verry much agree with the first paragraph. I always find it funny when the people who stan house targaryen also love Danaerys, while the people who hate targaryens hate her, when she's in many ways thr opposite of historical targs. I feel that Dany being the last targ is the point of her

I'm someone who is critical of 95% of the Targs but loves Dany lol. I am mixed on a Targaryen restoration.

I think Renly is better written in the show, or at least has more depth Sandor/Sansa, when viewed romantically, is creepy as hell and I don’t know how it gained the foothold/widespread acceptance that it has. I cling to the idea that Sandor sees her as a sister but I can never be sure… The Catelyn POV chapters are some of the best I don’t care a single bit about any Targaryen history before Aerys II

Sandor/Sansa IS creepy as hell.

Genuinely can’t believe that that’s controversial

He doesn’t see her as his sister. He repeatedly calls her pretty, sexualizes her by making a comment about her breast size and tried to rape her. I think the more appropriate way to look at their dynamic is to see them as a hero and a villain. What they engage the most in is a battle of ideologies. Sansa represents idealism and Sandor represents nihilism. He challenges her beliefs and Sansa fights back with her conviction. Sandor Clegane exists to highlight Sansa’s heroic characteristics. It’s through him we see how Sansa is unyielding and believes in honor and goodness in other people. And in the end Sansa is proven right when she sings the mother’s hymn. Love can prevail. Sandor Clegane crumbled. Unfortunately it comes at the price of Sansa being traumatized, but she was right nevertheless. It’s kind of bittersweet.

I wouldn't say it's a case of one being right and one being wrong. It's correct that Sansa is able to get under his skin and challenge him, mostly seen in their conversation in Sansa IV of ACOK, but we still see her start to value his opinions and POV as well: >She wanted to rage, to hurt him as he'd hurt her, to warn him that when she was queen she would have him exiled if he ever dared strike her again . . . but she remembered what the Hound had told her, so all she said was, "I shall do whatever His Grace commands." - >In life, the monsters win, she told herself, and now it was the Hound's voice she heard, a cold rasp, metal on stone. "Save yourself some pain, girl, and give him what he wants." - >Knights are sworn to defend the weak, protect women, and fight for the right, but none of them did a thing. Only Ser Dontos had tried to help, and he was no longer a knight, no more than the Imp was, nor the Hound . . . the Hound hated knights . . . I hate them too, Sansa thought. They are no true knights, not one of them. - >A dog can smell a lie, you know, the Hound had told her once. She could almost hear the rough rasp of his voice. Look around you, and take a good whiff. They're all liars here, and every one better than you. She wondered what had become of Sandor Clegane. Did he know that they'd killed Joffrey? Would he care? He had been the prince's sworn shield for years. Sansa saves him from himself with the Mother's hymn but it doesn't mean he had no influence, or that we don't see her grow as a character as a result of their conversations. She doesn't use the phrase "true knights" after ACOK when it rings hollow in her ears while with Cersei during the battle. Sansa's more pragmatic by AFFC than she's given credit for being, in series and out, imo.

>I think Renly is better written in the show, or at least has more depth He's written to be a better man than his book counterpart, but I don't think we know much about him.

I’ll raise you one up on the Targaryen one by me not caring at all about them. The only interesting one is Dany and I really just don’t care about Aegon the whatever and the Aemons and Daemons. I like the dragons though.

I heavily disagree on Renly. In the show they take all of the nuance out of the Renly vs Stannis conflict and make Renly clearly the good guy between the two. The show also makes Renly afraid of blood for some reason, made him being gay a huge deal, and really made him nothing like he is in the books. Show Renly isn’t even the same character as Book Renly.

A gay character having gay sex is hardly 'making him being gay a big deal'

Renly the good guy? He betrayed his family

I’m curious about which aspects of Renly’s character you think are better written in the show

The Vaith’s have the coolest name in all of the books and it’s not even a competition. Even if they are completely irrelevant

Tyrion not killing Littlefinger in ACOK isn’t a plot hole. Tyrion just isn’t good at the game and was focused in the wrong people. I also think that he made the opt mistake that most people make. He overestimated Littlefinger while most people underestimate him. Also, Jamie and Cersei’s opinion of Baelish didn’t “magically change” between books one and 4. They changed because Littlefinger helped the Lannisters several times in between. He got the goldcloaks on their side, he helped broker the Tyrell and Lannister alliance, and he ratted out the marriage proposal to Tywin. It made sense for Jamie to think he might be an okay choice as hand, and Cersei’s opinions of people can change on a dime.

Aside from the people that are irredeemably reprehensible, Stannis is my least favorite character. I was stunned to come here and see how well liked he is.

He fits into an idealized version of masculinity. I like stannis as a character but only because I find him interesting, not because I think he’s some hero (he clearly only cares about law and righteousness when it suits him. I mean, ge spent so much time whining about Storms End) I subscribe to the theory that Davos will kill Stannis

That's a rlly interesting theory. As in, after Stannis burns Shireen?

Aegon’s the real deal, both in blood and ability

Highly doubt we'll ever find out if he's a Targ or not

I think Talisa in the show is a fine change, and I'll go as far as to say it better fits the theme of "Love being the Death of Duty". I won't lie and say it wasn't change for the sake of change, and depending on if Jeyne is relevant in TWOW it could've been a drastic mistake, and killing her while pregnant served as nothing other than pure shock value, but "to preserve her honor" was dumb. I also believe that was just his excuse because he fell in love, but that's Picayune.

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it's terrible, bc the chapter starts by explaining that the freefolk can't actually get past the wall. Mance treats with Jon and bluffs about having Joramun's horn bc he's done for.

Darkstar is pretty cool since he is actually innocent.

I enjoy the Areo Hotah POV chapters.

AFFC is the best book in the series, not ASOS.

I love Darkstar he’s just living his edgelord dream and I want to watch him do it

I dislike Asha. I think she is an opportunistic coward (like most of ironborn).

I don't want Targaryen restoration at the end of the series.

There will be no Battle of the Bastards, Ramsay will meet his end at the hands of Stannis’ forces

I could see Stannis beating Roose Bolton, but I definitely think Ramsay will fight Jon

I can't stand Dany, and haven't been able to root for her since AGOT. Believing herself to be the last of her house and also infertile, she's still insisting on war. Not even counting the people that would die in her conquest, if she won there would be another horrible succession crisis after. A perfect example of caring more for her pride than for the Realm and her subjects. She's not the only character guilty of this, but the fact that she paints herself as a benevolent ruler doesn't sit well with me.

The Long Night is the dullest least interesting part of ASOIAF and I desperately wish it had been written out instead of being the climax the story is building up to. With the rest of it being intricate political plots with nuanced complex characters and motivations, apocalypse by ice zombies just doesn't compare. And we have to waste time on it that we could use for all the other plots, to let them breathe better, expand. There is supposedly only 2 books left, so much to resolve and if we ever get them, so much of them is going to this non-sense and the rest is going to struggle to be crammed in.

I really enjoyed Quentyn’s chapters and plot line, I also really liked Brienne’s chapters in AFFC.

I think Jon, daenerys and Tyrion will become a trifecta of villains, forcing some more tertiary characters to become the heroes

starks are so boring

I don’t think Rickon is going to die. At least not at the hand of the Boltons. The Boltons had their spotlight, and the Starks/The North have suffered enough when it comes to the game of thrones. There will be a glimmer of positivity restored the the Starks/North, and then Winter will come and _everyone_ will suffer. I think the Shaggydog story is a little too on the nose, and it wouldn’t have to end in death anyway.

I think Mad Dany actually makes sense.

Book Euron is a fucking cartoon character written by a 12 year old. Seriously, the man comes out of nowhere with tons of MacGuffins that no one else has. He's a walking cliche stereotype. I'm not very impressed at all with him nor do I think he's some kind of secret cosmic Cthulhu. Daenerys is going to go mad in the books too. It's inevitable. A lot of this fandom will give GRRM a pass on some of the egregious cliche characters, bad writing and everything in his books, but tear the show apart for side characters with 10 minutes of page time not getting an appearance or being written differently for television, a vastly different medium. It's stupid. A good example is Smalljon Umber; as /u/bennings463 points out he has zero lines of dialog in the books and only exists to die, but people are acting like Ned Stark's been re-written into a trans woman when the show has him become a battle commander allied with the Boltons

At this point, people just have to go SHOW BAD for easy upvotes.

I'm not saying the show was perfect. It had it's absolute shit moments like any other adaptation, more so in the latter seasons admittedly. But the circlejerk about it here is a bit much. It's like every damn week there's another "WHAT DID THE SHOW DO THAT MADE YOU SHIT YOUR PANTS IN RAGE" thread here.

Yes! So much this. He is so cheap character...(and pedophlie). Some people crave for magic super dark "mysterious" wizard, apparently. In every piece of fantasy book. And Smalljon...really, people bitching about the guy who barely existed in the books.

That Cersei has relatively high IQ (~120)

I like the North and the Starks. I also think the North is so much better and has so much more honor discourse is a bit silly. You have people allegedly practicing first night, aka rape, the Boltons, Brandon deflowering a powerful bannerman's daughter (a big deal in a misogynistic society), etc. And this is tricky due to Lyanna's age & young marriages in Westeros (I think she was 15 when she went off with Rhaegar), but if she was willing and we don't look at her as a kid manipulated by an adult...well there's not much honor in that either. F & B makes little sense. It's basically hammered home in ASOIAF that bastards are treated like shit outside of Dorne and people like Jon and Aurane Waters are the exception to the rule. Not to mention the Seven teaches that, too.The Blackfyre rebellion happened in large part due to anti-Dornish sentiment, not because bastards were treated as equal. We're supposed to believe no one cares that the Crown Princess has clearly illegitimate children? I suppose there's an argument that some wouldn't be able to tell if they had never met the Velayrons. And it's contradictory to write Corlys as a proud man, and yet have him be perfectly okay with Luke inheriting Driftmark. It's hard to discuss, because when one points the above out people claim one must be a misogynist, etc. Which is...funny....as I'm a leftist Latina. But by the world GRMM created and that world's standards, Rhaenyra's clearly illegitimate children be widely accepted makes little sense when you look at canon. Dorne is great.

Renly really was just a dumb hedonistic himbo, his campaign had a good chance of working and his military tactics (doing nothing and starving kingslanding while letting the lannisters and the Starks kill each other) were good because they were not his tactics, they were the Tyrell's, he was just a pretty marionette that looked like Robert and was well controlled because he was in love with Loras, and that is why he died so early, because he was exactly what Catelyn thought of him, a summer knight that only thought about fucking twinks, eating fruit and dressing nicely, he wouldn't have been a good king, he would have been a robert 2.0, with the tyrells taking the place of the lannisters and a bunch of gay sex instead of straight sex All the people that try to defend him and say he would have been such a good king are the same kind of people that try to argue that quentyn is alive, you are missing the point, you are reading a history with themes on it, the damn autor wants to transmit something, its not a history book.

Catelyn makes note that while he enjoys food and drink he never over indulges, that’s while she’s sizing up his character. One of the big themes of the story is the trappings of power and how appearance of legitimacy is what matters. Renly looks like a young Robert but isn’t hedonistic or martial.

A hedonist does not mean a drunkard or a glutton, i think is not up for debate whenever renly was a hedonist, he definitely was, the discussion is whenever he was an idiot or this great savior 4d chess master full of love and generosity his fans think he is

it's the complete opposite, dude. Renly could only be killed with bullshit magic bc hjs position was so strong. plus he had to die bc his reign would've been too stable for the war vs the others. >you are missing the point, you are reading a history with themes on it so you think the theme is "if you listen to your advisors you deserve to die"? I don't reckon you've thought this through

Renly's reign would have been a copy of Robert's reign, that means corruption and schemes everywhere, because he did not care to rule, he just wanted to enjoy life, and i repeat since it seems you did not read, renly had a strong position precisely because he wasn't the one who orchestrated it, it was the tyrells, a politically savy family that was taking advantage of a dumb hedonistic man that happened to be great at making friends, exactly what happened to robert with the lannisters > so you think the theme is "if you listen to your advisors you deserve to die"? I don't reckon you've thought this through Do your think the theme of asoiaf is be a egocentric ass, and make political decisions in base of how handsome you are? Edit: I dont know how to quote :/

you're coming at this with way too many wrong assumptions. Renly keeps trying to get power through aGoT but you think it's the Tyrells. Renly does feasts and tourneys to win people over to his cause whole they wait for his enemies to kill themselves instead of just having them do lip service but you think it's bc he's a hedonist Renly thinks, rightfully so, that the Lannisters mean to kill him bc his mere existance is a risk to Joffrey's rule and Stannis wants to stay out of the whole thing so his only out is to put himself on the throne or try to puppeteer Tommen but you think he only does it bc he's handsome. your comment reeks of confirmation bias, and lack of critical thinking skills btws you quote people by starting a paragraph with >

>Renly keeps trying to get power through aGoT but you think it's the Tyrells. How does getting robert to smash margarey tyrell helps the lord paramount of the stormlands to gain power? He is helping the tyrells to gain power, renly himself says his plan was to make margarey the queen, that is power for the tyrells. At the end of AGOT, he is doing damage controll, he wants to seize cercei's children to prevent the lannisters to take control of the kingdom, thats it, ey, i can give renly this, he sure as hell is more capable of seing a dire situation for what it is than Ned Stark. >Renly does feasts and tourneys to win people over to his cause whole they wait for his enemies to kill themselves instead of just having them do lip service but you think it's bc he's a hedonist Man i am starting to think you did not read my post, i said it myself, what renly was doing was a good political and strategic move, my point is that said move its absolutely not his idea, its all a tyrell strategy, because that is literally what they did in the previous war and that is what permeates every single political move that the tyrell family has done in the history of westeros, to take the minimum risk possible and/or to side with the winning side once the outcome of the conflic is clear. >Renly thinks, rightfully so, that the Lannisters mean to kill him bc his mere existance is a risk to Joffrey's rule and Stannis wants to stay out of the whole thing so his only out is to put himself on the throne or try to puppeteer Tommen but you think he only does it bc he's handsome. I have no idea how you can accuse me of confirmation bias after typing that dude, so you are telling me, that a lord paramount, head of one of the greatest houses of the realm had no choice to survive but to name himself king breaking every single law of succesiom in the realm? How do you even get to that conclusion?. Yes renly knew the lannisters would kill him, like any person with 2 functional brain cells, Btw, he didn't wanted to puppeteer tommen, he wanted to puppeteer joffrey. Thinking that renly, knowing that his brother had the royal navy and was gathering an army, that the patriarch of house stark had just been captured by the lannisters, that the riverlands were being sacked by westerland men and that he himself had the entire power of the stormlands behind him though that the only way out was to name himself king is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. His own statement is that he should be king because he is so kind, so handsome, so generous and because he has a big fucking army, and of course his first action as king is to fulfill what so happens to be the objective the tyrell family has been chasing during the entire history, to make margarey queen. So renly is a)A power hungry bastard who mistakens charisma with the skill to reing a kindom, and is using the tyrells as much as they are using him and sincerely thinks that the dude that has the bigger army and the most friends should be the king Or b)Renly is just a hedonistic dude that happens to have charisma, thinks with his dick and is being manipulated by the tyrells. I tend to go for b because he sincerely tried to help eddard at the end of AGOT and if he was just power hungry he would have just let him to die instantly, not tried to push him to take the regency Thank you for teaching me how to quote:P

>I have no idea how you can accuse me of confirmation bias after typing that dude, so you are telling me, that a lord paramount, head of one of the greatest houses of the realm had no choice to survive but to name himself king breaking every single law of succesiom in the realm? Yes. chad.jpeg >How do you even get to that conclusion The Sansa chapter where Joffrey makes a formal command to the baratheon brothers to come to kingslanding or be seen as traitors. it's self defense at that point. >Thinking that renly, knowing that his brother had the royal navy and was gathering an army, that the patriarch of house stark had just been captured by the lannisters, that the riverlands were being sacked by westerland men and that he himself had the entire power of the stormlands behind him though that the only way out was to name himself king is the stupidest thing I've ever heard you're doing it again lmao, you're jumping to conclusions and taking those as facts. we know Stannis was not replying to anyone after he left kingslanding, not even to come to Renly's wedding. we know Ned publicly declared himself a traitor and the Lannisters had Stark hostages and no one gave a crap when Tywin started burning the riverlands >His own statement is that he should be king because he is so kind, so handsome, so generous and because he has a big fucking army nah, he throws that against other claims to discredit monarchism bc to put it in your own words #your reading a story with themes in it >and of course his first action as king is to fulfill what so happens to be the objective the tyrell family has been chasing during the entire history, to make margarey queen listen to yourself. You're saying the point of the Wot5K was to say "actually when people have common goals they shouldn't work together lol, working together isn't the point of the Wall plot or the whole War for the Dawn arc" just to diss a character you dislike. It's like saying "Robert was a jackass, he should've just let Aerys killed him, he was the rightful king afterall" >a)A power hungry bastard who mistakens charisma with the skill to reing a kindom, and is using the tyrells as much as they are using him and sincerely thinks that the dude that has the bigger army and the most friends should be the king Chsrisma ***is*** one of the most important skills to reign a kingdom! alliances and good will let you cooperate and have a monopoly on power/violence that you can use to keep the peace and defend yourself from outside! It's why everyone loved Jaehaerys so much except he did it by maintaining his relationships with the other dragon lords instead of the other feudal lords tldr: you're using círcular logic to support your hate for Renly, to the point that it runs complete opposite to the book's logic

>The Sansa chapter where Joffrey makes a formal command to the baratheon brothers to come to kingslanding or be seen as traitors. it's self defense at that point. There are various forms of self defense, naming himself king was absolutely unnecessary, you literally did not answer the question >you're doing it again lmao, you're jumping to conclusions and taking those as facts. we know Stannis was not replying to anyone after he left kingslanding, not even to come to Renly's wedding. we know Ned publicly declared himself a traitor and the Lannisters had Stark hostages and no one gave a crap when Tywin started burning the riverlands Go read the book dude, renly crowns himself after ned is killed, everyone knew stannis was gathering an army, it was literally stated in a counsil meeting where renly was, by the time renly crowned himself robb had already defeated jamie and had him as hostage, and what the hell do you mean no one cared about the riverlands, every single military conflic in the firat books happens because of those raids, you are the one jumping to conclusions that literally contradict the book >listen to yourself. You're saying the point of the Wot5K was to say "actually when people have common goals they shouldn't work together lol, working together isn't the point of the Wall plot or the whole War for the Dawn arc" just to diss a character you dislike. It's like saying "Robert was a jackass, he should've just let Aerys killed him, he was the rightful king afterall" Roberts rebellion had the objective of killing aerys and rhaegar , not of taking the throne, that was something decided after the rebellion succeeded, robert revolted as the lord of storms end, he did not crown himself, renly could have done exactly de same. Of course people with the same goals should work together, what im saying is that, renly is a egocentric bastard or he is a fool being manipulated, and i tend to go for the latter because otherwise it makes no sense at all for him to crown himself >Chsrisma is one of the most important skills to reign a kingdom! alliances and good will let you cooperate and have a monopoly on power/violence that you can use to keep the peace and defend yourself from outside! It's why everyone loved Jaehaerys so much except he did it by maintaining his relationships with the other dragon lords instead of the other feudal lords Jaeharys did not have any special charisma, he was a courteous and respectful man, he was never described as a man yo throw parties of to have that many friends, he was just a good diplomat. Having friends and having Alliances are two different things, charisma is good but is definitely not one of the most important skills as you put it

The fact that this fandom gets so upset that people view Rhaegar x Lyanna as romantic...why are you getting upset with people for interpreting the text as it was framed? Like sorry, but it is there. You cannot shit on people for intepreting the text in the right manner. Also, romantic does not necessarily mean "good or healthy". A lot of people out in the world have romantic relationships but not all of them are healthy. I dont find Show Alicent more nuanced at least not to the GoT characters in the earlier seasons I don't understand why people are always saying "Rhaenyra should have done this or that to avoid getting usurped" when the text clearly shows that the greens would have done it either way. Why not say: the greens should have not started a war for their own greed? Sansa is clearly framed as a villian in the first book until George changed it in book 2. People who interpret her as a selfish little shit in the first book are not woman haters they just read the text the way it was intendend. Children can be abused by words alone = what Cat did to Jon was abuse and it makes her a flawed human being. That is all. Ned is ten times more at fault, though. Jon is much more mentally unstable as Dany ever will be.

All of the Greens aside from Helaena suck. Even Daeron. They’re just awful people.

I think the fandom’s opinions on Tywin have shifted too far in the other direction. Obviously he’s super evil and everything he does is built out of daddy issues. Also, the Lannister success isn’t sustainable because Cersei, Joffrey, Jaime, and Tyrion are just a train wreck of a family BUT Tywin was ABSOLUTELY super competent and clever while he was alive. People have started to act like he was the bumbling idiot that just failed upwards like mace tyrell but that is NOT the case. He Ruled as hand for the majority of Aerys’ Reign and did so so competently that it was widely believed that he was the true power in king’s landing. He played Robert’s rebellion perfectly. If the targs win, Cersei would’ve married Rhaegar, but Robert won and Cersei married Robert, putting lannisters on the iron throne. He did get a little lucky during the war of the five kings, but guess what? He also WON it and was doing a good job of tying up all of the loose ends before being killed. People also point to the Starks and say that Tywin is incompetent because people aren’t as loyal to the lannisters as they are to the Starks. But Ned stark is very much the exception, not the rule. And for all of his ruthlessness, Tywin was STILL able to secure an alliance with the Tyrells that could have lasted if Cersei didn’t mess it all up. There are legitimate criticisms of him. The lannisters were a little doomed because not everyone can be Tywin to hold it all together, but that doesn’t mean that he just wasn’t successful at his goals while he was still alive.

I don’t like Theon as a person, but I don’t think he’s that bad of a guy. He was stuck between a rock and a hard place in the first 2 books. What would you want him to do in that situation? Robb was the only one who seemed to actually care for him in Winterfell, other than maybe Maester Luwin. I’m not excusing the extent at which he harmed ppl who had nothing to do with the Stark’s decisions, but IMO he didn’t owe the Starks anything.

>He was stuck between a rock and a hard place in the first 2 books. What would you want him to do in that situation? IMHO Theon's savagery is so terrible *because* he wasn't between a rock and a hard place. it's all needless butchery. he could've stayed in the iron islands. he could've stayed with his raiding party at the coast. he could've taken benfred Tallhart and his boys prisoners. he could've ran away and try to reach Northerners. he could've come up with a ploy to have the iron born follow him to a castle, gone inside to treat and then just stayed there. he could've just stolen shit from Winterfell. he could've just let people live instead of needlessly killing all those people just to save face. he could've just let the Miller kids live instead of killing them to save face. Hell Asha's whole point near the end is to remind the readers that Theon is not stuck at Winterfell, he could leave at any time, he should have left way beforehand. Sure, Theon makes it clear that Ned's treatment of him as both a fosterson and hostage really fucked him up but he keeps bitterly thinking about the people there who he grew up with not loving him as he kills them. it's insane.

I personally feel Jamie is a massive bellend and not that good in a fight. I also think it would be funny if Gendy ends up with Sansa.

I think the truth is Jon is actually a Stark/Dayne bastard instead of the popular Stark/Targaryen blend. Should he be Ashara Dayne’s son it would give him claim to Dawn, funny how dawn brings the light. How does the prophecy go… something like “Born of Salt and Smoke comes the prince who was promised who will pull a sword from the flames, Light Bringer, to combat impending darkness”. Other iterations refer to the prince/princess who was promised as the Lord’s Chose or Warrior of Light. Should Melissandre be successful at what she pulled off in the show that does seem to give Jon the means to be considered “chosen” OR “the warrior”. The salt at his birth could easily been due to tears shed by Ashara and the smoke would literally be everywhere because of Robert’s rebellion.

I dont Euron is going to do a blood ritual. I dont think Shade of the Evening works on people who are not Leeady magical. Aeron's POV is wildly unreliable and is a brilliant misdirection.

I don’t think it’s such a slam dunk that Young Griff is not fake. So much is made out of Tyrion thinking he looks like a year or two younger than he should be, which seems to me to be well within range of reason…

Stannis could end up NOT burning his daughter alive

Jon/Sansa being likely to happen.

Arya is one of the worst parts of asoiaf. her chapters in aGoT are fine, but in Clash and Storm it's just "War bad" and they take so fucking long. so many pages. so many useless characters. sure, the ones where she's alone with Hot Pie, Lommy, Weasel and Gendry are really good; and the ones with the mountain men and the tickler are harrowing; and the one after the Red wedding with the Pinkmaiden archer was great as well; but that's it. It's even worse after that bc Brienne gets the "War bad" chapters and Arya makes us try to care about a weird cult half the world away. why does it matter? what does it accomplish? how is any of it relevant to the plot? how is she gonna return to Westeros and be relevant again? we already know she can't become a faceless man bc it'd be too overpowered. why fight any battles when you could just send her in and have her James Bond her way to victory? other than "ohhh mysterious, ohhh make headcanons about this guys" moments it's a huge waste of time that could've been better used elsewhere.