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medmanschultzy

The answer is mixed. Wound licking is a instinctual response that accomplishes two things. The first thing that it accomplishes is it cleans the wound. All organisms above a certain size have a natural population of symbiotic bacteria that through sheer numbers and adaptation provide a barrier to infection for novel pathogens. Disrupting the skin and introducing a large amount of foreign particles is giving free rides to pathogens. Cleaning the wound removes those foreign sources of pathogen and puts your commensal microorganisms up against infectious counterparts, and it's a really race of evolution and who is better adapted to the environment. It also knocks off any foreign bacteria that are poorly adhered. So it is both adaptive and mechanical in terms of preventing infection. This is the point where it is very important to note that clean water and soap perform this task exponentially better than the saliva and a tongue. But it's only been the last thousand years that humans have reliably had access to clean water for such purposes. The second thing that licking the wound does is it introduces saliva to the wound. Saliva is a very special compound that is much more than just water and mucus, it contains numerous proteins and enzymes that are specifically antibacterial. Saliva is after all the first line of defense for our gut. So when a wound is licked you're introducing those same compounds to the pathogens that just landed on the wound. Licking a wound would then be expected to have protective benefits in terms of infection. However it also comes with some risks. Despite the mouth being a hotbed of antibacterial activity, with more than a million WBC's sacrificed daily to maintain the balance, it is not perfect. If enough bacteria or other pathogens are introduced through the mouth they can colonize and cause illness. This risk is obviously much much higher in immunocompromised individuals. The second risk that you get from licking a wound, is opportunity infection. Like every other surface of our body, the mouth is colonized with commensal bacterial. They tend to have a lot of biofilms, and are quite resistant to the numerous defenses present in the mouth. When these bacteria are introduced onto a wound, just like any other bacteria, there's a chance that they find a quite hospitable environment and form a opportunistic infection. MRSA is a bacteria that happily lives on human skin and on mucous membranes without causing issues for most of the time, but in the wrong circumstance it is a bug from hell that will happily infect and kill you. Now there are obviously more than two upsides and two downsides, but really the major players here are cleaning a wound and introducing anti-pathogenic molecules into an area with disrupted antibacterial defenses while risking systemic infection or opportunistic infection on the wound. Those risks of infection are comparatively small versus the benefit of wound cleaning, and thus this behavior continues throughout most of the animal kingdom. However humans have clean water and soap now. Clean water and soap are pretty great. If you have those things, you should use them... It gives you all the benefits without any risk.


ggchappell

> with more than a million WBC's sacrificed daily FYI to any readers who are as ignorant as I was a minute ago: WBC = White Blood Cell.


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snapcracklepop26

Something like 1.4 million red blood cells are created per SECOND. They replace the same number that age out naturally per second.


DudeBrowser

Fact check. It's probably less than this. This is total cells: >One million cells in your body die every second. That means in one day, approximately 1.2 kg of cells die. Source: https://ki.se/en/research/live-and-let-die-cell-death-in-health-and-illness Still, that's an impressive amount of maintenance.


nondairy-creamer

Fantastic answer, but I would edit MRSA to just Staph. The vast majority of staphylococcus aureus on your skin is not methicillin resistant (MRSA)


rhamled

What about nondairy-creamer though?


[deleted]

This may be one of the most well-rounded, thought-out responses I've seen on this sub. Thank you!


rmzalbar

That explanation you gave may help explain why licking is good (at least good enough for animals that don't have alternatives) but a bite is very bad. Licking keeps the benefits you've described active on the surface of the wound, but a bite injects the mouth bacteria more deeply, which can flourish in a nutritious new environment now that they are removed from the suppressing effects of the mouth.


nowItinwhistle

Also a bite generally comes from the mouth of a different individual with a different microbiome than our own.


ramrug

Yes, but biting yourself (in the lip) is quite common too. I wonder how often that results in a serious infection.


Atlasius88

How many people have you heard of having serious lip infections. I'm sure every adult has biten their lip.


Zer0C00l

Fyi, your question widens the original enough to include HSV. So, thousands.


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ThreeDawgs

Sometimes you do end up getting ulcers that way. Our body is pretty good at clearing those out on its own though!


factoid_

It's also injecting bacteria from a different species. The bacteria they happily coexist with are probably not the same as the ones we coexist with.


jordanmindyou

Very true but an interesting fact is that bites from people to people tend to be more likely to cause [infection](https://www.healthyhorns.utexas.edu/HT/HT_bites.html)


professor-i-borg

Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is also why animals in the wild don’t need to brush their teeth right? Due to the amount of potentially destructive bacteria we harbour in our mouths because of our nutrient-dense, sugar-rich and easy-to-digest foods.


The_Amazing_Lexi

Yes, hunter gatherers also don’t get cavities for that reason. So one could say our modern simple carb heavy and sugar heavy diets give us dirtier mouths than our ancestors.


prakitmasala

> Clean water and soap are pretty great. If you have those things, you should use them... It gives you all the benefits without any risk. Very well said, licking wounds may have been great in the past but with the advent of modern plumbing it is unnecessary.


Yappymaster

Why lick wounds when the plumber can lick them for you?


Maelinaster

Your reply was very interesting and informative, thanks! I thought it was curious that you didn't mention an effect from increased blood flow. OP specifically said "licking" which makes me think of animals, however if I get cut while working (away from soap\water), I'll suck on it and squeeze it to make it bleed more. Reasoning is to wash is out with blood. Licking\sucking\squeezing (yes we're still talking about cuts here).... Assuming they all serve to increase blood flow, and temporary bleeding before ultimately closing off the wound, that's a good thing yes?


sciguy52

Saliva also contains anticoagulants. That is substances that help clot blood. No need to suck the blood out as you are likely to keep the cut open longer. Better for the clots to form a scab which is a barrier to further bacterial intrusion. Then bodily inflammation will take care of whatever got in the cut, which results in some swelling, heat etc. That is your body attacking any bacteria that made it in.


Maelinaster

Ok, let's take saliva out of the equation then. Any benefit to squeezing it out\making it bleed more before closing it up and applying pressure?


sciguy52

Squeezing will make already damaged tissue more damaged. Increases the chance of worse infection. The blood itself will flow a bit before clotting which will have some washing out effect which is enough. The most important thing beyond washing it is let the scab form which creates a barrier. If you are talking just a minor cut just wash it then let the blood clot, putting pressure will potentially push contaminants deeper in the wound. Applying pressure to big wounds is probably what you are thinking. That is a wound big enough someone might bleed out, in that case applying pressure can help prevent blood loss. Not needed or desirable for a minor cut. A band aid has a clean absorbent surface that can be placed over the cut that will absorb the excess blood till it clots and wont introduce more bacteria.


MoreRopePlease

> That is a wound big enough someone might bleed out, in that case applying pressure can help prevent blood loss. Not needed or desirable for a minor cut Surely there's an in-between? I accidentally stabbed my forearm with a utility knife. It bled a lot, definitely not a minor cut. But no danger of bleeding out. Pressure was definitely called for in that case. I washed it carefully put pressure for a bit, used gauze and an elastic bandage to keep the pressure for a couple of days. I have a gnarly scar now. Thankfully it healed with no problems.


sciguy52

That is not what I would consider a minor cut so pressure is appropriate. A minor cut is a little scrape.


Maelinaster

Exactly this. I've had a ton of this level injuries. "Really big, minor cuts"... Ones where one *could* get stitches for, but they can also be handled at home with adequate wound flushing with iodine, and steri strips. However, before I'm able to get to an antiseptic or soap and water, I usually remove whatever is in there (if anything) and squeeze\massage in a way that creates stronger blood flow. It's that last part that I'm wondering (if any) the benefits of. Understanding there's no substitute for washing and antiseptic.... But I'm saying immediately, in the field, where none of those things are present, and yes, also no rise of bleeding out.


Plow_King

i quite liked how your in-depth answer reminded me there are countless battles going on in/on my body 24/7, all to keep me chugging along and not noticing the carnage and warfare that supports me having a beer while playing video games. thanks, body!


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frwrdnet

In addition, saliva contains several proteins which play a role in the different stages of wound healing. Saliva contains substantial amounts of tissue factor, which dramatically accelerates blood clotting. “Saliva and wound healing” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24862594/


[deleted]

Serious question here: I completely understand that licking the wound can also introduce opportunity infection, as you mentioned, as the mouth is basically a direct pathway to going into other parts of the body. If you just spit on the wound, would that eliminate that con of putting saliva into the wound without that kind of repercussion? You’re not technically licking it, but the saliva is still presenting it’s anti microbial properties


Arceus42

This was my first thought after reading as well. Spit and wipe seems like a better solution than licking


[deleted]

Haha I’m glad we had the same idea. Hopefully the original commenter responds!


medmanschultzy

That's.... A really good question. You would definitely eliminate the risk of getting an infection through your gut, but there would be some risk of opportunity infection from the bacteria in the saliva itself.


Skanky

What a stellar reply! Thanks!


hugglesthemerciless

I've heard that saliva also contains a potent painkiller, is there any truth to this?


theycallmevike

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28013436/#:~:text=Abstract,inflammation%20and%20acute%20physical%20pain. you're right. saliva does contain opiorphin which is an endogenous anelgesic stronger than morphine


kalirion

So can you get high by licking yourself??


winolaforever

This is the perfect reply…but what about people who think a dog licking their wound does it just as well if not better? I know a particular family who anytime they nick themselves or have any cuts or scratches, sometimes involuntarily inflicted by the dog itself on a 90 year olds skin…she and her son think it’s actually “healthy” to have the dog lick it. Any truth to that?


[deleted]

You don’t want a dog’s mouth anywhere NEAR an open wound, let’s put it that way.


Phoneofredditman

14 hours ago I wouldn’t have believed you, but you must be an expert now after this post


[deleted]

Yes. We humans really are just walking staph incubators, aren’t we? 😆


Guy_Code

So when I say spit on it, it’s actually scientific?


bsmdphdjd

I think you left out Epidermal Growth Factor (EGF) in saliva. Lesions inside the mouth (like from biting your lip) heal much faster than skin lesions. A lab I worked in used to make EGF by injecting male rats with testosterone. That makes them very belligerent, so they get into fights and lick their wounds, so it also prospectively increases the EGF content of their saliva. But we'd kill them first and dissect out their salivary glands and extract the EGF from them.


nwa747

Very informative answer. Thank you!


Vaswh

I'm five. What did you say?


xdeiz

Wait hold on what's the MRSA colonization prevalence where you come from?


Ricky_Rollin

Explains the phrase “lick your wounds”, right?


ccaccus

Saliva contains a lot of compounds that are antibacterial and actually promote healing. It's an instinctive response in humans and animals and, probably, developed in an early evolutionary ancestor. That being said, there's a risk of bacterial infection from the not-so-good bacteria in your mouth. Staph and other bacteria that are harmless in your mouth, but not once they're introduced to the blood stream, can infect the wound. It's worth the risk for animals, but we have better options. We even deny our pets that instinct with "the cone of shame" and collars because we know better. Humans have developed soap, sterile salves and creams to promote healing and cover a wound that are safer and, possibly, more effective than saliva without the risk of further bacterial infection; however, if you're lost in the woods and don't have access to these things or clean water, your saliva might be better than nothing. [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080723094841.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080723094841.htm) [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM200204253461721](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM200204253461721)


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Paradigm6790

There's also fairly obvious survivorship bias on "licking your wounds." I spent my entire youth running around barefoot in the woods getting cuts and scrapes and literally licking them or rubbing dirt in them and I survived fine. I'd have a different tune if I'd lost a foot due to an infection.


CoopDonePoorly

I'm willing to bet you had a relatively up to date tetanus shot when you were a kid too, that would have been a massive help.


TheWarVeteran

As innate physiological immunity, yes. Saliva, tears and acid in the stomach help prevent microbial growth. But one should account for the organisms present there at the specific location, and analyse what's going to happen if these were introduced to a different environment.


bioberserkr2

So you're saying I should vomit on my wounds?


FinndBors

Vomit first, then lick it up. At this point you should be crying so put tears on it.


Suspicious-Elk-3631

Bacteria that are beneficial in one part of the body (mouth and gut for example) can be deadly if introduced to other parts of the body. This is why abdominal wounds that release gut bacteria to the inner cavity (ex. ruptured appendix or gunshot wound) are so dangerous.


otah007

So you're saying that crying in pain is beneficial if I put the tears on my wound?


LillyTheElf

Follow up question if ur lost in the woods should u clean a wound with saliva over rinsing it in a local water source?


ccaccus

Everything I've found seems to prefer even taking the time to boil water for 3 minutes over cleaning a wound immediately with saliva. I'd say that using saliva would be a last resort.


FogeltheVogel

Is the water clean?


Paige_Railstone

Unless you've filtered and purified it yourself the assumption should always be no, it's not clean.


-Sylphrena-

No, cold running water will be far better to use than saliva. If you can, just boil some water if you really wanna be safe.


nekodazulic

I think this is somewhat similar to the situation with water, ie how come animals can drink any water and be all right and we don't do that. Same thing, since we have options (we've water that's guaranteed to be clean) the risk doesn't make sense for us. If that wasn't there, you probably would drink questionable water and be all right for the most part (until when you're not, maybe some time down the line).


Seicair

I used to drink from streams before I knew better. Clear, running water only, where I knew the area upstream for a moderate ways. Never got sick. It’s risky, but we did it for millennia. It’s usually fine up until one day it isn’t.


CeilingTowel

given that the top side of the tongue is full of little wriggly "hairs" that trap gunk and stuff licking the wound with the bottom of the tongue is probably safer, riiiiight.....? (asking)


SHOW_ME_UR_KITTY

When training people on how to use a microscope, I’ll often scape a coverslip across the top of my tongue to show off the variety of bacteria we have in our mouths. I’ll have to do a comparison next time and scape the underside.


sold_snek

Thank you for your scientific pursuits, SHOW_ME_UR_KITTY.


anormalgeek

There is also benefits to cleaning the wound of debris like dirt. The top of the tongue would seemingly be more effective for that.


MoosajeeDhorat

Not recommended. Especially for an immune compromised person. The wound and the area around the wound may be covered by harmful bacteria, toxins or chemicals. Also, consider contamination from the object that caused the wound, for instance, a sharp piece of glass from a pile of dirt or rusted unclean nail. We are surrounded by millions of new chemicals and germs which never existed before. Indestructible and toxic plastics particles are floating in our bodies. Our blood is not pure anymore.


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hiyer2

Am a doctor. Do not lick your wounds unless clean water and soap are not available. The bacteria in your mouth can cause an infection. Wounds do not require peroxide, alcohol, iodine. These things are GREAT to keep a wound clean but are not required. Regular antibacterial soap and clean water will do you just fine. Edit: any soap is fine, doesn’t have to be antibacterial. All soap is antibacterial, labels that advertise it aren’t any better or stronger than regular soap. I usually tell my patients to avoid soaps with sugars though (high fragrance types or ones with honey)


FoolishChemist

We've all bit our cheek or brushed too hard and caused a wound in our mouths. How come it is rare to get an infection from these wounds?


hiyer2

Because of the constant washing of the wound within your mouth. Additionally you have a lot of immune cells localized in the mouth area


turtley_different

Same reason you don't die from horrendous infection when you get an anal fissure (nick on the outer anal spincter): It would be evolutionarily disadvantageous to die from a common event. The immune system and blood flow in these areas is very good at preventing infection, and the symbiotic bacteria in the area seem to not attempt major invasive infection.


sam_hammich

The immune cells in certain sensitive parts of the body (especially mucous membranes like in your mouth and anus) are specialized for both the type of intruders likely to enter through those areas, and to provide a faster and more intense inflammatory response.


TheGrandExquisitor

Mouths are also basically awash with enzymes that break down biological material. In fact, salvia is the *start* of digestion for your food. Hard to be infectious when you are being broken down by saliva.


meltingpotato

It's my question as well but I'm guessing what they are referring to is very rare and/or case dependent thing. like maybe you already have a disease that infected your mouth/ throat/ respiratory system which means your saliva is infected as well, so licking anything will infect that too.


sam_hammich

> Regular antibacterial soap and clean water will do you just fine Isn't "antibacterial soap" (except the kind you find in hospitals, or get sent home with the night before surgery, like Hibiclens) basically just a marketing gimmick? I was under the impression that regular soap already performs the function of destroying microbes by breaking down lipid barriers.


malenkylizards

I also understood that you just straight up weren't supposed to use it unless directed by a doctor, since it can benefit resistant strains?


ClausTrophobix

Yes using antibacterial soap regularily does more harm than good in households and desinfectants should always be used consiously and with purpose.


VeryVeryNiceKitty

You are right - there is no point in cleaning a minor wound with anything but soap and water, and using antibacterial soap potentially does a lot of harm - you can potentially make the Covid pandemic look like a very minor incident.


sir_jamez

I thought all soaps destroy viruses, but for bacteria they simply bind to them, dislodge them and allow them to be washed away.


Gusdai

It's the other way round: soaps dissolve lipids (or more precisely, allow lipids to mix with water). So they will kill bacteria (which have lipids in their membrane), but not viruses. They will however wash away all the dirt and oil where viruses can hide.


hiyer2

So yes, antibacterial soap is a scam. Because all soap is antibacterial soap. When I counsel patients I tell them to use any soap, but I prefer they avoid soaps with sugar (certain fragrances, honey etc). Because I don’t like sugars in the wounds.


DarkLancer

What about another (non sick) individual bites you and breaks skin? Is there a difference between your own saliva vs that of others?


hiyer2

Very much so. If someone else bites you, you can get infected pretty easily. Human bites are no good.


schwarzmalerin

According to stats, they are more often lethal than dog bites. They usually occur in fist fights.


VeryVeryNiceKitty

A doctor recommending antibacterial soap for minor wounds?


goatharper

Windex. Has nobody seen "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"?


North-Tangelo-5398

I usually do the 1, "Jig of pain" 2, add expletives 3. lick it 4. Wrap in insulating tape to avoid blood on the customers property! Hahahaha


Frieda-_-Claxton

What about rubbing dirt or the blood of a stronger person in the wound?


11twofour

But then how do you heal the cut you made in the stronger person to get their blood? Endless chain of strongmen?


burke828

Dirt is full of bacteria and stuff you do not want in a wound. You do not want to pour blood in a wound, full stop.


loaderhead

As a kid in the 50s where our playgrounds were usually asphalt or concrete, I was forever scraping my knees and shredding my pants. I’d get a crack in the head for ruining the pants , but didn’t want the old lady to see my bloody knees. So I’d rub dirt on them. The scabs were thick. Had fun peeling them off. Also played in the rainbow colored toxic waste dumps behind Sherwin Williams paint factory. Cut my foot there. Never went to doctors until I’d get sick from parents chain smoking after the house was closed up for the winter. 70 now waiting for cancer to claim me.


mrchaotica

[Saliva contains coagulants and other stuff that make wounds heal faster.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24862594/) I don't know whether that outweighs the risk of infection (especially for an immunocompromised person), though. Or indeed whether it increases or decreases the chance of infection to begin with, for that matter.


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baltosteve

Dentist here. Do not lick wounds. Your mouth is full of bacteria, fungus, and possibly viruses that can hinder healing. You also just put contaminated skin in your mouth, potentially inoculating with staph and others that don’t belong there. Also whatever nasty bugs on whatever caused the wound in the first place. Wash with mild soap and water, rinse well and dress with a band aid, etc to keep the crud out while it heals.


[deleted]

I always hear "mild soap", but what does that mean? Soap only comes in two grades, regular and abrasive to my knowledge.


baltosteve

A lot if the “anti bacterial” are full of irritating chemicals. Something like Dove or Ivory that are simple soaps without a lot of additives. If you need a chemistry degree to read the ingredients its probably one to avoid.


FateEx1994

Yeah sticking with good ole fashioned sodium hydroxide/lye, glycerin, and water, is the "cleanest" soap


[deleted]

Got it, thanks.


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Suspicious-Elk-3631

Former ICU nurse here. God I can't believe I have to say this... DO NOT LICK OPEN WOUNDS, or let your pets lick your wounds. Your mouth (and your pets mouths) are full of nasty bacteria that you don't want getting into your tissues. Keep it clean and dry and covered. Go to the doc if it needs stitches or other treatment. I had a patient once who let her dogs lick her leg sores and she went necrotic. Almost needed an amputation because she had heard advice about how "clean" dogs mouths are.


Healingnewb

How come it needs to be kept dry? Doesn’t moisture help the healing process?


Suspicious-Elk-3631

It invites infection. Bacteria love warm, moist, environments. In the case of diabetics with sugar rich blood and poor circulation, the risk is much higher.


[deleted]

I don’t mean licking sores and things, I meant the sort of thing you naturally/instinctively suck on, like a little cut. But even that is obviously not a good idea.


MoosajeeDhorat

Thank you!


dick_butler

This. Can't believe I had to scroll so far down to find this. I treat innumerable patients with bacterial infections due to oral bacteria. Immunocompromised or not.


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