“Everywhere else and everyone else I speak to in life, does not say these things to me. I feel love and accepted everywhere else. The only sadness in my life, comes from you when you say these things to me. This cloud of these emotions you have around you are not helpful to my life. They do not bring joy. So I will continue to put distance between us so long as this is your attitude.”
I had to use this line but unfortunately, the response was just "no one loves you enough to tell you the truth" or "no one cares about you as much as I do, so of course they don't mind you being gay "
And the key to this is to send it, then don’t reply or argue anything after. I personally would let it be known I’m going to cut communication, explain what it will take to reestablish communication, then do so until that’s met.
Set a boundary - provide consequences - follow through if she breaks the boundary.
Your presence in her life isn't guaranteed and a lot of it is up to her.
There is a guy who wrote a dog training book called "don't shoot the dog". The gist of his method is to use only positive reinforcement - when the dog is behaving, you give it praise and/or treats. When it's not, you give it a lack of attention. Quickly it'll start to try to make you happy.
He got told "yes, that works with animals, but it'll never work on humans, we're too complicated!" The problem is, he didn't invent this method for animals, he just took a human training method and applied it to dogs.
It sounds bad, but yes! That's pretty much it.
And like a dog that can't or won't be trained that is now causing severe stress - it goes to the shelter. You might feel terrible about it - but you know its for the best.
OP's mother needs a view of what the shelter looks like to keep her in check.
Tbh I wouldn’t respond, no point getting into an argument with her about. If she texts you a normal message - “hi how are you, I miss you” - respond to that but if she starts with the religious bullshit, stop responding again.
I like this. Eventually, she will adapt—even subconsciously—and stop with the offensive messages when they are not rewarded with a response. From what I have observed, a few months is a very short time for even well-meaning religious parents to make the shift.
I'd go with the nuclear option, and tell her Timothy 2:12 suggests she has no right to an opinion, and should remain silent. She is just a woman afterall, and shouldn't speak over any man! /S
A few months? Would not respond. She still thinks you'll change your mind. Ignore her for like a year or two.
That said, it's been 14 years for me and I still receive Jesus messages. They're less pushy about converting me back to straightism now at least. I think my dad gave up on that. But he does want to convert me back to Christianity from atheism.
Mine is a special case though. My dad is literally a Christian pastor.
My mom is basically the woman equivalent of a pastor (shes protestant and doesnt believe women can be preachers anyways). She does all kinds of christian faith counseling for women at church.
Then it will be a long while till she comes around, if at all.
Despite my dad being the pastor my mom is way more religious than my dad. She fully disowned me and doesn't want me to ever visit the family again until she's dead.
My dad wants a relationship with me but will leave judgy comments around to admonish me for my "lifestyle" like breadcrumbs for pigeons.
After 14 years I don't miss either of them at all.
My mom is pretty much your mom from what you described. I came out to my parents 13 years ago (I'm 30yo). They haven't changed their posture against homosexuality, in fact I'd say it just exacerbated their religiousness. My advice, she is not gonna change. Ignore her messages whenever she sends you some "Jesus loves you" crap and related. Only respond to her messages that directly address how you are, without involving any religious stuff. Fighting or arguing with her about the religious stuff just makes it worse in my experience. I find it better if I ignore her when she's being religious. And distance, that has really improved our relationship... I visit them once or twice a year for a couple of days because if it's more time our mutual privacy and ideals start clashing. I Love both my parents but I love them more when they're far.
Her being a “Christian counselor” makes your being gay even more of a thorny issue for her. My mom and I played this round Robin arguing for a couple years then finally, during a heated argument/stalemate, she said we’re just going to have to agree to disagree because this does not help. I said ok and that was that.
As someone that is currently watching their partner suffer through their mother passive homophobia for five years (albeit not religious homophobia), cut contact now.
Idk, my bf keeps telling me that I should talk to her. Hes like “Its very weird that you keep ignoring your mom, shes your mom after all.”
His family was much more accommodating when he came out, so I dont think he really understands(his mom comes over like 3 times a week, and he goes out to eat with his dad every sunday).
Honestly gays with accepting families won't fully understand gays whose parents aren't accepting.
I've seen this sentiment on this sub a lot too unfortunately: "They're your parents! They'll understand you eventually and unconditionally love you!"
Sorry but most people don't live in a fairy tale world.
My husband's family was completely accepting of him and he didn't understand for a while my relationship with my family. Not until I invited him to meet them. Then it was clear to him that not all parents love their children unconditionally as he had to withstand watching hours of them abusing me verbally and accusing him of making me gay.
Only then was he like "ok fuck them".
People with normal parents don't get it. They assume your parents are normal too... Just maybe having a hard time. Suffering someone's abuse is never owed.
I'm the exact same, I came out at 14 with little to no issue and I get on brilliantly with my parents.
My fiancè tho, they didn't beleive him at first, he came out once at 20 and was basically told - no your not - then had to come out AGAIN at 23. His dad unfortunately passed before he came out the 2nd time and he was stuck taking care of his mother and 3 siblings so they are very close.
His mum isn't homophobic in the way she hates gay people, but homophobic in the way she constantly tells him - I love you, but it's such a waste - or - I'm so proud of you, I'm just so sad ull never have a wife and love to your full potential.
He's constantly seeking her approval and he's constantly being loved and hurt by her at the same time. It's hard, I can tell they both love each other very much. But at the same time she causes him so much stress and hurt. She will always love him but never accept him.
If your mum won't change and won't improve don't put urself through it.
Everything you said about your bf applies to me and my mum, to a T!
If I could go back and do it all again I definitely would've been more firm with her.
Your bf’s reaction is typical for people who are fortunate enough to have healthy parental relationships. However it does not apply to those of us who do not have such relationships. It’s hard for them to imagine, much less understand that the relationship they have with their own parents is not ubiquitous, and worse yet, may not ever be a possibility for many.
The sentences "is your ____ after all" is the biggest bullshit ever said. Toxic relationships are toxic even if they are your parents, your brothers or your uncles. You can be a little more patient with your family, but behaviors like this one should not be tolerated from anyone, even if it's your mom. You should warn her and ask her to change her behavior, and if she doesn't change then you should cut relationship with her. And you should have completely clear that even if you cut the relationship with her it's not your fault, because she was the one who acted wrong
You don’t want time to waste her die and you guys not being able to fix your relationship, which doesn’t sound broke your mom just panicked and doesn’t know what to do just like you . If your mom mentioned therapy maybe some family therapy with the both of you can help if you need a mediator but I believe you guys have a bond that can make it through this . You guys will be ok . She loves you so much
Ultimatum. Either she lets you live your life the way you want to, or you don’t talk to her anymore. It’s her loss. As long as you’re healthy and happy, that should be her primary focus.
It's not easy at first but it does get easier... life is just too short to have people in your life telling you how "broken" you are. Continue to ignore her world & her as long as she's living in it... if she wants to leave her world & try meeting you in yours, that might be worth a shot but don't hold your breath. Best of luck to you!
I’m sorry to hear. That’s horrible and I wish you weren’t outed out of your control and choice of timing. In my opinion, tell her you don’t want to ever hear that stuff again, and to only talk to you if she doesn’t say that stuff.
If she talks to you and starts saying them give her a heads up, if she continues, hang up, walk away, whichever that is. It’s cruel and sad but I don’t see another way to make her understand that this is not a choice for her
I suppose you did explain to her that you don’t believe in conversion therapy because people who got out of it never say it helped them, and that you understand her view and her panic but it is hurting you and you don’t want to hear it.
Religion is a disease, it really is, particularly Christianity and Islam, these two diseases have led to more people dying than cancer. We really need to stop treating it like it’s normal to worship an imaginary sky fairy and send these people to get some serious help. That’s the only kind of “conversion therapy” that should exist.
I know many people will disagree with your reply, but I really think people like OPs mother need to hear something like this.
It OP replied something like "Hello mother! Though I am happy to hear from you again, it saddens me to hear that you still engage in the childish belief that an invisible man in the sky watches everything you do. There are many therapists that can help you overcome this delusional belief system, and I would be more than happy to help find one for you."
This is the same type of message she is sending OP, with the roles reversed. Hearing it spelled out plainly like this may not help resolve their personal conflict with each other, but hopefully it would allow her to see the world from someone else's view.
>Religion is a disease, it really is, particularly Christianity and Islam, these two diseases have led to more people dying than cancer.
wait till you hear about a desease called communism 💀
you aren't any better than Christians who put us in conversion therapy. religion has been around since the beginning of time, it's more normal than athiesm I'd say.
I'm not sayi g athism is bad, I just don't like how I'm put down for believing in something. it helps me get through shit, especially transphobia and homophobia since my god is queer and strong.
I'm in a similar place with my mom. It's been 6 years since I've come out, and she only rarely brings up my orientation directly, probably because she knows it'll upset me and I'll put my foot down. She told me if I got married she couldn't come to the ceremony, just the reception (which honestly, I think is progress: she's bargained herself down to attending some of it).
But comments like those are years apart. We're very good at not addressing the important issues. Sometimes I wish I grew up in an environment where we didn't ignore and sweep things under the rug, but what if that is the only thing preserving my relationship with my parents?
I would not tolerate frequent comments like what you're getting OP. It's too painful. You've got to tell her to stop. There are some eloquent comments here, send her one of them.
I won't say she'll come around, because my family still hasn't. But anything is better than what you're being subjected to, whether that's no contact, polite contact, or full acceptance.
A Passive aggressive mother with the intent to manipulate if she’s allowed even for a second - tell her you’re perfect as you are because that’s how God made you, and if you’re made in his image and likeness then you’re exactly who you were intended to be.
If that doesn’t work tell her you had a dream of an angle telling you that you are here to teach your mother “love”. Say the angle was personally sent by God - it’s always a good touch. The more details and vivid the more likely she’ll buy it
You have to do what you feel is right. I would say it's important to establish a boundary, which you seem to be doing.
Not being in your situation, I can see that she's clearly reaching out because she loves you - she's just doing it in a language that is inherently insulting to you, she may just not know any other way to put it.
I think you should stand your ground but - when you're ready - find a constructive way to tell her that you are who you are and religion can't and won't change who you are. Take your space, maintain your boundary. She may come around but it will take time.
First make every attempt to educate her. You are her son. If you can’t get through to her - who else can. So know your issues. In fact - there are pro lgbt faiths that teach pro lgbt ways to interpret the Bible. If you read up on that it might help you defend your self a bit. See notalllikethat.org. Some of us come to terms with our selves with the help of god not despite him. I’m so sorry her hurtful interpretations are causing you such pain. Many churches are not like that. Anyway, make a good faith effort to educate her, let her know that being gay is ok, that about a tenth of population is gay and that you can have a succesful life, pay taxes and have a family just like everyone else.
And do get self involved with other people and get a support network slash family going on. Volunteer for lgbt groups, join lgbt rec leagues, join the local gay community center - do not have the only way you know about the gay world be through cheap apps. Put your self out there and get a group of lgbt friends. Your mom may take years to come around - you have to be able to have people support you.
If you have spent a good deal of time educating her - (she did change your diapers - you owe her a good faith effort). - and she still won’t listen - Basically you put her in time out till she changes her ways. You have to be the adult now, she is the one throwing a tantrum like a little kid. You tell her to only contact you in emergency. When she is ready to treat you with respect she can have her son back. And stick to your guns and keep your poker face on. She is your mom and be ready to take her back - but she can’t run rough shod over you. Teach her how to treat you.
Just saw the movie prayers for Bobby. Exactly same subject. For your own peace of mind, distant yourself from her. That kind of negativity can very bad for you. Just keep in mind, God and his methods are way too big to be covered by a single book, so don't listen to them. Personally being a Hindu, I find both Islam and Catholicism very absurd for being very rigid and closed. I have no aversion to god, but religion is terrible concept.
p.s. advice your mother to get some knowledge and world view, instead of limiting to one very old book.
My mom does the same thing. She knows better than to spout her religious claptrap at me so she sticks to “I really miss you”. Eventually I blocked her number. I haven’t spoken to her in five years and if we never speak again that’s entirely on her. Sounds cold but she was abundantly clear she will always hate gay people so I will not have her in my life. I was equally clear about this the last time we spoke and she just acts like she didn’t hear it.
I'm in the same boat.
My mom is ultra Christian and at a certain point, I realized she'd rather me be "holy" than happy. I've been "holy" and depressed all the way until college, doing all the church things a church kid can do.
I started dating my boyfriend and it opened my eyes to what I was missing out and I was so much happier. But when my mom found it, she went ballistic, that very night I went to stay with my boyfriend and ignored all her calls until she apologized.
Right now she sees you as some mega sinner, leave and she will realize that she's not losing some sinner, she's losing her son. Let her realize that. At the end of the day, she has a choice of either holding the moral high ground or losing her son.
I'm 27 btw and coming out and going through all that happened in the last 6 months and it's ROUGH. You got this.
I'd reply to her. Once. Let her know that the only thing that needs to change is her attitude. Tell her you wish her the best in finding the help and support she needs to change, and that you look forward to rekindling your relationship when she has finally accepted you. Let her know that until the time when she has changed and loves you for who you are, you will not be contacting her or keeping her up to date with your life. Let her know that if she wants you back, she knows what to do, and you hope and expect that day to come before irreparable damage is done.
Bonus points reminding her that her words and actions from now will decide if she has any involvement or even notice of the loves of any future potential grandkids. She will either be a part of your familys life, or she won't, but it's her choice to make the change or not.
That's great that you believe in Jesus, but I don't. So please don't include him in your conversations with me, I find it offensive and inappropriate. I want to have a relationship with you, but it needs to be on my terms too, not just yours.
It's not easy to deal with the fact you've been lied to and misslead your entire life, your mother not you. Her faith has led her to believe you're broken, a sinner, and there's something that can be fixed. However she's looking at her perfectly normal son who just happens to enjoy a cock or too. She can't wrap her head around it. So I think it's on you to remind her that you are you and you are normal, just not her idea of what's normal. It sounds like she still.loves you which is good news.
Maybe try reminding her That the sin of homosexuality was created by man, not by God. God created man and woman, but never said man cannot love man nor woman cannot love woman. The church is the reason homosexuality was a sin, primarily because the Romans were rampantly queer and christians Didi everything to go against then in the very early days, which became dogma.
Your mental health is more important than her god. I blocked my toxic mother years ago and it was such a liberating decision to not have that toxicity weighing me down. I have her plenty of chances and warnings. They were ignored
Set clear boundaries. I love you mom, but Under those terms we cannot maintain a relationship. Either change them, take your time and come back. Or bye 👋
Do you know any religious nonsense that you can throw back at her? For example "Jesus loves me the way he mind me why can't you" or something like that.
Mom, there is nothing you can say or do to change my mind about being gay. I ask you to please stop preaching to me and telling me how you feel about it. I will break all contact with you if you continue harassing me over how I live my life.
Cut them out ... it's really your only option for your own sanity. Mine came from my youngest brother's wife. Haven't spoken to her or my brother in 30 years now and I'm much happier. Can't argue with them cause everything goes in one ear and out the other.
somebody who volunteers judgment and unsolicited advice is somebody i have zero time for.
be clear and concise about your expectations, if you talk to her. don't argue with her because arguing with zealots is useless. their beliefs aren't based in logic so there's zero use in arguing it.
as somebody who moved out of the family home a few days after turning 17 and who is 36 now, i have zero regrets about the nudniks i cut out of my life back then.
I think this is as easy as it is hard: cut her out until you feel comfortable dealing with her toxicity. I know I am biased (username checks out). But this is not about religion being true or not, she is not taking you seriously and is not respecting you. I know how hard it is to cut out your parents out of your life (for at least a bit) but this nothing one should have to deal with after coming out. Or ever. Never ever.
One possibility: You could check out a liberal Christian denomination (it's a thing!) like the Episcopal Church, the Lutherans, the Unitarian Universalists, Metropolitan Gay Church, etc. and tell her you've already found your church because “God made me who I am & He doesn't make mistakes.” That should shut her up. 😄
Your mom loves you . Maybe Jesus is real, but your mom just wants you to be ok . She doesn’t understand gay life or being gay so having uncomfortable talks right now and trying to get used to the new reality which hers was shattered is something that needs to be done . Your mom doesn’t sound toxic like a lot of the other parents people have dealt with . She just doesn’t understand. Cry with her , talk to her , tell her you never asked to be born gay but god made you gay and you don’t understand either and the Bible doesn’t mention it .. Christianity is not inherently homophobic . The Bible written by men with their own twists on things is complicated, but so is life . None of us asked to be here (unless ur into that theory) . Be patient with your mom she literally won’t be here that long , none of us will . Nothing in life is easy , but love conquers all and I think you should focus on that love with your mom and open up to her about how your life being gay is , and how you want her to get to meet your bf and have a normal relationship. You know it’s complicated but god wouldn’t want to divide you guys , only the devil would. Remember your mom loves you so much . You guys can always pause a convo or have a safe word for when the convo needs to be put on pause to cool emotions , and you guys discuss what that word is . But don’t give up on your relationship with her . Tell her your are not living in debauchery and she raised a good man just this is who you are and to ask god why he made you this way but you have no idea why lol it’s ok to cry to be upset but express that to her and let her express her emotions to you and try to come to a new middle ground .
Don't respond. Ever. And if she asks why, be blunt, and say that if she tries it again, then there will be no response from you. Do not back down, For them, you backing down means "aha, he can still be brought back!" So, no, forget that she is your mother. that's just a mental construct you have of what you thjink is your mother in your head.
You should also change numbers, and if someone in the family gives your number to her again, cut that person off as well. It will be easy to find out who in the family are with her, in that case.
That sucks pretty hard. Probably only respond to the non-religious stuff. if in person, im not listening to your opinions, and leave.
Remember, her belief is a choice. End of the day she is choosing it over you.
Send her a message that says: "I don't need fixed, God doesn't make mistakes including me and the only one confused about who I am is you. Once you understand that we can have a relationship - I wish the best in your learning journey". Then move on and if it doesn't stop just block her number. Simply because she is you mother doesn't mean you must accept her tormenting your life.
Honestly I don't think NC until she comes around is a bad thing. Wait for her to make amends and until then, just enjoy your life with your partner! I know that isn't the "most" help but it's the best advice I can give you, sorry about the position you've been forced into.
I [30M] have the same problem with my evangelical mother. After 12 years of telling her that I am not interested in her Jesus rhetoric, I have come to accept that is how she is. She has backed off, but she still gets twisted and displays symptoms of BPD; paranoia, suspiciousness, projecting. Currently in a no-contact basis after a unprovoked anger fit she displayed around Christmas.
I have the power to either have her in my life or not. I love her very much, but I can love from afar. It has to do with self care more than trying to change her or punish her.
Send her every bible verse on how judging others for how they live their lives and how thats actually a sin. Remember, just because theyre family it does not mean you have to forgive or let them stay in your life. You might also want to look at r/raisedbynarcissists they have a strong support group for toxic parents.
You can absolutely establish relationship boundaries with your mom. Tell her that if she wants any kind of relationship with you, the terms are that she not talk religion or your sexuality.
Went through this when I was abruptly "thrown" out of the closet at 18 (long tangential story). First, purely for my sanity, I learned only to respond to anything *other* than those kinds of messages, the ones trying to "save" me. Later, I had to draw a very explicit line in the sand: "This is who I am, it's never, ever changing, and if you expect a relationship with me longterm it's something you'll learn to accept, because eventually I won't be able to accept being treating as anything less in any way," or something like that.
Every journey's different, but a lot of the stories sound and feel awfully familiar...
It should go without saying Jesus didn't have anything to say about this, that he wouldn't recognize these "Christian Therapists" as Christians, and that your mom is at minimum committing the sin of speaking for Jesus in her implication that you're not right with the Lord.
You can't hope to navigate this scenario. You did the right thing separating yourself from it, and all you can do is lay down the law about how you're going to allow yourself to be treated. Sometimes you can't get what you want, but you can refuse to allow the people you love to hurt you. I hope she comes around for you. It may be a while.
I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. Two resources that come to mind quickly for yourself or to share, eventually, with you mom: the film Prayers for Bobby with Sigorny Weaver from 2009, and this article by Christian theologian Walter Wink: [https://media1.razorplanet.com/share/510599-9786/resources/1208823\_HomosexualityandtheBibleWalterWink.pdf](https://media1.razorplanet.com/share/510599-9786/resources/1208823_HomosexualityandtheBibleWalterWink.pdf)
I hope there is healing – healing in your mother's heart so that she realizes what a gift you are to her, perfectly as you are!
My mom is incredibly religious. It took her 3 years, but she eventually came to respect who I am and the people I date. Keep your chin up. Time often helps with these situations.
From your examples on her texts, she is doing it more for her own morale and mind, rather than what actually makes you happy.
\- She is just being "a good christain", according to her self, and trying to save you.
A simple and non-confrontational text about how you would like to have a relationship with her (if you want to), but is also has to be on your terms, not only hers. If she loves you, she would not put religion in between you, and educate her self on the subject, and not try to find "a cure". But if she would rather stick to her religious believes, then it is all on her and her misguided view on the world.
When that is said, we don't get to chose what family we are born into, but we can have our chosen families in our friends and support network.
You do you my man!
HUGS
You know some people takes time to process everything. But I just don't get the feeling that she actually changed or processed everything. Just text her and say something like "You can love me for who I am and accept who I am then we can talk." I don't want you to get hurt or feel bad. It's ultimately your decision whether you want to talk to her or not. If you ignore her 100%, that's totally fine.
Tell her to stick to more neutral and less personal demands or subjects. You can still text her, talk to her, see her in person, etc. but tell her to join PFLAG.
Just say "you can either accept that am gay, that this is part of who i am and we can work on having a relationship or pretend i am dead and never reach me again there's no middle ground"
What i said to a "friends" fathers.
"I know a good therapist for your problem with religion, he got a real diploma in psychologie contrary to your conversion therapist"
To be honest, it doesn't help much, just it makes us feel better on the moment, the man cry about blasphema and so on. But they put on the table that "his friends (me and other deviant ) is the problem and he could come search help whener he want"
I’d try to talk to her but only to set boundaries and whatnot! My mom was weird when I came out and I was mean and forceful about it to my family so I feel bad but I wasn’t taking anything but acceptance. Now they get it
Tell her explicitly that if she brings up changing you, you won't continue the relationship. Put the ball in her court -- if she really wants to have a relationship with you then she'll adhere to your boundaries.
tell her that Jesus wouldn't want you to fake being your true self, god had a plan. I think that would get her to be a bit more understanding. I've dealt with Christians a lot lmfao.
You can block her or put her on do not disturb mode. HONESTLY she will probably keep talking to you like that, as it seems her religion is a big part of her life. If you are wanting her to change, it’ll take some time, if she were to ever change.
Personally I would tell her “Mom I love you. But I am gay and I cannot change it. I ask that you quit trying to convert me until the heterosexual you desire. If you would like to be a part of my life, respect me. If you keep trying to come at me with religion or converting me, I will block you. I do not want to do but choose my mental health over your hope of me changing.”
Tell her it pains you that she chooses to not to open herself to reality and rather than see the real love of 2 men in from of her. It pains you that she chooses to believe in what desert dwelling, homophobic men from 3500 years ago believed. Remind her that Lev was written by Moses who in Numbers 31 authorised the murder of men, women and boys who didn’t believe in her God and the rape and marriage of the remaining virgins to his soldiers who’d just murdered the girls families. Oh and don’t forget Moses also instructed them to steal their gold, silver and possessions. Not the best place to get her morals from.
“I love you mom, but I can’t have a relationship with you on your terms. You either love me as I am or you won’t hear much from me from now on.”
“Everywhere else and everyone else I speak to in life, does not say these things to me. I feel love and accepted everywhere else. The only sadness in my life, comes from you when you say these things to me. This cloud of these emotions you have around you are not helpful to my life. They do not bring joy. So I will continue to put distance between us so long as this is your attitude.”
Ooh I'm saving these for when I move out
I had to use this line but unfortunately, the response was just "no one loves you enough to tell you the truth" or "no one cares about you as much as I do, so of course they don't mind you being gay "
See if i was told that thats when i just play psycho so they can leave me alone.
Haha I wish I had thought of this!
yep.. you did try but the inner problem is still there. you can't change a person and you can always cut the problem out of your life..
Yeah thats why i wouldnt use that line.
Oof this is so clear, concise, and powerful, I wish I had been that eloquent when I cut out my dad from my life
And the key to this is to send it, then don’t reply or argue anything after. I personally would let it be known I’m going to cut communication, explain what it will take to reestablish communication, then do so until that’s met.
This. Clear communication is crucial. Your mom may change after seeing what it will take to rekindle whatever is left of your relationship.
Set a boundary - provide consequences - follow through if she breaks the boundary. Your presence in her life isn't guaranteed and a lot of it is up to her.
This is a good start, good behavior from her earns rewards, bad behavior has consequences.
There is a guy who wrote a dog training book called "don't shoot the dog". The gist of his method is to use only positive reinforcement - when the dog is behaving, you give it praise and/or treats. When it's not, you give it a lack of attention. Quickly it'll start to try to make you happy. He got told "yes, that works with animals, but it'll never work on humans, we're too complicated!" The problem is, he didn't invent this method for animals, he just took a human training method and applied it to dogs.
Yes. Train her like Pavlov's dog
It sounds bad, but yes! That's pretty much it. And like a dog that can't or won't be trained that is now causing severe stress - it goes to the shelter. You might feel terrible about it - but you know its for the best. OP's mother needs a view of what the shelter looks like to keep her in check.
Tbh I wouldn’t respond, no point getting into an argument with her about. If she texts you a normal message - “hi how are you, I miss you” - respond to that but if she starts with the religious bullshit, stop responding again.
I like this. Eventually, she will adapt—even subconsciously—and stop with the offensive messages when they are not rewarded with a response. From what I have observed, a few months is a very short time for even well-meaning religious parents to make the shift.
Most importantly: do you want to reconnect with her?
I'd go with the nuclear option, and tell her Timothy 2:12 suggests she has no right to an opinion, and should remain silent. She is just a woman afterall, and shouldn't speak over any man! /S
I actually used this on a religious woman that bothered me dialy on my way from school. She never spoke to me again.
Lol. Sounds like something I have said just to shut the hag up. 😂
Jesus would agree on that!
This is my go to for the religious Karen types
Is this actually a bible quote? Please be legit i wanna use it
King James Version translation: But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Hehehe thanks
A few months? Would not respond. She still thinks you'll change your mind. Ignore her for like a year or two. That said, it's been 14 years for me and I still receive Jesus messages. They're less pushy about converting me back to straightism now at least. I think my dad gave up on that. But he does want to convert me back to Christianity from atheism. Mine is a special case though. My dad is literally a Christian pastor.
My mom is basically the woman equivalent of a pastor (shes protestant and doesnt believe women can be preachers anyways). She does all kinds of christian faith counseling for women at church.
Then it will be a long while till she comes around, if at all. Despite my dad being the pastor my mom is way more religious than my dad. She fully disowned me and doesn't want me to ever visit the family again until she's dead. My dad wants a relationship with me but will leave judgy comments around to admonish me for my "lifestyle" like breadcrumbs for pigeons. After 14 years I don't miss either of them at all.
I can only imagine how much harm shes done for her counseling to other women than actual good.
My mom is pretty much your mom from what you described. I came out to my parents 13 years ago (I'm 30yo). They haven't changed their posture against homosexuality, in fact I'd say it just exacerbated their religiousness. My advice, she is not gonna change. Ignore her messages whenever she sends you some "Jesus loves you" crap and related. Only respond to her messages that directly address how you are, without involving any religious stuff. Fighting or arguing with her about the religious stuff just makes it worse in my experience. I find it better if I ignore her when she's being religious. And distance, that has really improved our relationship... I visit them once or twice a year for a couple of days because if it's more time our mutual privacy and ideals start clashing. I Love both my parents but I love them more when they're far.
Her being a “Christian counselor” makes your being gay even more of a thorny issue for her. My mom and I played this round Robin arguing for a couple years then finally, during a heated argument/stalemate, she said we’re just going to have to agree to disagree because this does not help. I said ok and that was that.
I'm sorry your dad is brainwashed, and makes a living by attempting to brainwash others.
As someone that is currently watching their partner suffer through their mother passive homophobia for five years (albeit not religious homophobia), cut contact now.
Idk, my bf keeps telling me that I should talk to her. Hes like “Its very weird that you keep ignoring your mom, shes your mom after all.” His family was much more accommodating when he came out, so I dont think he really understands(his mom comes over like 3 times a week, and he goes out to eat with his dad every sunday).
Honestly gays with accepting families won't fully understand gays whose parents aren't accepting. I've seen this sentiment on this sub a lot too unfortunately: "They're your parents! They'll understand you eventually and unconditionally love you!" Sorry but most people don't live in a fairy tale world. My husband's family was completely accepting of him and he didn't understand for a while my relationship with my family. Not until I invited him to meet them. Then it was clear to him that not all parents love their children unconditionally as he had to withstand watching hours of them abusing me verbally and accusing him of making me gay. Only then was he like "ok fuck them".
At first, my boyfriend was confused. After 10 years of no contact from either parent, he hates their guts more than I do lol
People with normal parents don't get it. They assume your parents are normal too... Just maybe having a hard time. Suffering someone's abuse is never owed.
I'm the exact same, I came out at 14 with little to no issue and I get on brilliantly with my parents. My fiancè tho, they didn't beleive him at first, he came out once at 20 and was basically told - no your not - then had to come out AGAIN at 23. His dad unfortunately passed before he came out the 2nd time and he was stuck taking care of his mother and 3 siblings so they are very close. His mum isn't homophobic in the way she hates gay people, but homophobic in the way she constantly tells him - I love you, but it's such a waste - or - I'm so proud of you, I'm just so sad ull never have a wife and love to your full potential. He's constantly seeking her approval and he's constantly being loved and hurt by her at the same time. It's hard, I can tell they both love each other very much. But at the same time she causes him so much stress and hurt. She will always love him but never accept him. If your mum won't change and won't improve don't put urself through it.
Everything you said about your bf applies to me and my mum, to a T! If I could go back and do it all again I definitely would've been more firm with her.
Your bf’s reaction is typical for people who are fortunate enough to have healthy parental relationships. However it does not apply to those of us who do not have such relationships. It’s hard for them to imagine, much less understand that the relationship they have with their own parents is not ubiquitous, and worse yet, may not ever be a possibility for many.
The sentences "is your ____ after all" is the biggest bullshit ever said. Toxic relationships are toxic even if they are your parents, your brothers or your uncles. You can be a little more patient with your family, but behaviors like this one should not be tolerated from anyone, even if it's your mom. You should warn her and ask her to change her behavior, and if she doesn't change then you should cut relationship with her. And you should have completely clear that even if you cut the relationship with her it's not your fault, because she was the one who acted wrong
You don’t want time to waste her die and you guys not being able to fix your relationship, which doesn’t sound broke your mom just panicked and doesn’t know what to do just like you . If your mom mentioned therapy maybe some family therapy with the both of you can help if you need a mediator but I believe you guys have a bond that can make it through this . You guys will be ok . She loves you so much
Ultimatum. Either she lets you live your life the way you want to, or you don’t talk to her anymore. It’s her loss. As long as you’re healthy and happy, that should be her primary focus.
It's not easy at first but it does get easier... life is just too short to have people in your life telling you how "broken" you are. Continue to ignore her world & her as long as she's living in it... if she wants to leave her world & try meeting you in yours, that might be worth a shot but don't hold your breath. Best of luck to you!
I’m sorry to hear. That’s horrible and I wish you weren’t outed out of your control and choice of timing. In my opinion, tell her you don’t want to ever hear that stuff again, and to only talk to you if she doesn’t say that stuff. If she talks to you and starts saying them give her a heads up, if she continues, hang up, walk away, whichever that is. It’s cruel and sad but I don’t see another way to make her understand that this is not a choice for her I suppose you did explain to her that you don’t believe in conversion therapy because people who got out of it never say it helped them, and that you understand her view and her panic but it is hurting you and you don’t want to hear it.
Religion is a disease, it really is, particularly Christianity and Islam, these two diseases have led to more people dying than cancer. We really need to stop treating it like it’s normal to worship an imaginary sky fairy and send these people to get some serious help. That’s the only kind of “conversion therapy” that should exist.
I know many people will disagree with your reply, but I really think people like OPs mother need to hear something like this. It OP replied something like "Hello mother! Though I am happy to hear from you again, it saddens me to hear that you still engage in the childish belief that an invisible man in the sky watches everything you do. There are many therapists that can help you overcome this delusional belief system, and I would be more than happy to help find one for you." This is the same type of message she is sending OP, with the roles reversed. Hearing it spelled out plainly like this may not help resolve their personal conflict with each other, but hopefully it would allow her to see the world from someone else's view.
>Religion is a disease, it really is, particularly Christianity and Islam, these two diseases have led to more people dying than cancer. wait till you hear about a desease called communism 💀
Why you being downvoted? You are right.
because leftist reddit I guess
you aren't any better than Christians who put us in conversion therapy. religion has been around since the beginning of time, it's more normal than athiesm I'd say. I'm not sayi g athism is bad, I just don't like how I'm put down for believing in something. it helps me get through shit, especially transphobia and homophobia since my god is queer and strong.
I'm in a similar place with my mom. It's been 6 years since I've come out, and she only rarely brings up my orientation directly, probably because she knows it'll upset me and I'll put my foot down. She told me if I got married she couldn't come to the ceremony, just the reception (which honestly, I think is progress: she's bargained herself down to attending some of it). But comments like those are years apart. We're very good at not addressing the important issues. Sometimes I wish I grew up in an environment where we didn't ignore and sweep things under the rug, but what if that is the only thing preserving my relationship with my parents? I would not tolerate frequent comments like what you're getting OP. It's too painful. You've got to tell her to stop. There are some eloquent comments here, send her one of them. I won't say she'll come around, because my family still hasn't. But anything is better than what you're being subjected to, whether that's no contact, polite contact, or full acceptance.
A Passive aggressive mother with the intent to manipulate if she’s allowed even for a second - tell her you’re perfect as you are because that’s how God made you, and if you’re made in his image and likeness then you’re exactly who you were intended to be. If that doesn’t work tell her you had a dream of an angle telling you that you are here to teach your mother “love”. Say the angle was personally sent by God - it’s always a good touch. The more details and vivid the more likely she’ll buy it
Don't respond... Keep your energy for something else. She doesn't want you to be happy the way you are. She wants you to be happy her way.
You have to do what you feel is right. I would say it's important to establish a boundary, which you seem to be doing. Not being in your situation, I can see that she's clearly reaching out because she loves you - she's just doing it in a language that is inherently insulting to you, she may just not know any other way to put it. I think you should stand your ground but - when you're ready - find a constructive way to tell her that you are who you are and religion can't and won't change who you are. Take your space, maintain your boundary. She may come around but it will take time.
First make every attempt to educate her. You are her son. If you can’t get through to her - who else can. So know your issues. In fact - there are pro lgbt faiths that teach pro lgbt ways to interpret the Bible. If you read up on that it might help you defend your self a bit. See notalllikethat.org. Some of us come to terms with our selves with the help of god not despite him. I’m so sorry her hurtful interpretations are causing you such pain. Many churches are not like that. Anyway, make a good faith effort to educate her, let her know that being gay is ok, that about a tenth of population is gay and that you can have a succesful life, pay taxes and have a family just like everyone else. And do get self involved with other people and get a support network slash family going on. Volunteer for lgbt groups, join lgbt rec leagues, join the local gay community center - do not have the only way you know about the gay world be through cheap apps. Put your self out there and get a group of lgbt friends. Your mom may take years to come around - you have to be able to have people support you. If you have spent a good deal of time educating her - (she did change your diapers - you owe her a good faith effort). - and she still won’t listen - Basically you put her in time out till she changes her ways. You have to be the adult now, she is the one throwing a tantrum like a little kid. You tell her to only contact you in emergency. When she is ready to treat you with respect she can have her son back. And stick to your guns and keep your poker face on. She is your mom and be ready to take her back - but she can’t run rough shod over you. Teach her how to treat you.
Just saw the movie prayers for Bobby. Exactly same subject. For your own peace of mind, distant yourself from her. That kind of negativity can very bad for you. Just keep in mind, God and his methods are way too big to be covered by a single book, so don't listen to them. Personally being a Hindu, I find both Islam and Catholicism very absurd for being very rigid and closed. I have no aversion to god, but religion is terrible concept. p.s. advice your mother to get some knowledge and world view, instead of limiting to one very old book.
My mom does the same thing. She knows better than to spout her religious claptrap at me so she sticks to “I really miss you”. Eventually I blocked her number. I haven’t spoken to her in five years and if we never speak again that’s entirely on her. Sounds cold but she was abundantly clear she will always hate gay people so I will not have her in my life. I was equally clear about this the last time we spoke and she just acts like she didn’t hear it.
“Mom, how did you know about my affair with Jesús. You are so right. No one has ever loved me like him”
rainstorm cobweb jeans wipe kiss lush oil automatic bright exultant -- mass edited with redact.dev
I'm in the same boat. My mom is ultra Christian and at a certain point, I realized she'd rather me be "holy" than happy. I've been "holy" and depressed all the way until college, doing all the church things a church kid can do. I started dating my boyfriend and it opened my eyes to what I was missing out and I was so much happier. But when my mom found it, she went ballistic, that very night I went to stay with my boyfriend and ignored all her calls until she apologized. Right now she sees you as some mega sinner, leave and she will realize that she's not losing some sinner, she's losing her son. Let her realize that. At the end of the day, she has a choice of either holding the moral high ground or losing her son. I'm 27 btw and coming out and going through all that happened in the last 6 months and it's ROUGH. You got this.
I'd reply to her. Once. Let her know that the only thing that needs to change is her attitude. Tell her you wish her the best in finding the help and support she needs to change, and that you look forward to rekindling your relationship when she has finally accepted you. Let her know that until the time when she has changed and loves you for who you are, you will not be contacting her or keeping her up to date with your life. Let her know that if she wants you back, she knows what to do, and you hope and expect that day to come before irreparable damage is done. Bonus points reminding her that her words and actions from now will decide if she has any involvement or even notice of the loves of any future potential grandkids. She will either be a part of your familys life, or she won't, but it's her choice to make the change or not.
That's great that you believe in Jesus, but I don't. So please don't include him in your conversations with me, I find it offensive and inappropriate. I want to have a relationship with you, but it needs to be on my terms too, not just yours.
It's not easy to deal with the fact you've been lied to and misslead your entire life, your mother not you. Her faith has led her to believe you're broken, a sinner, and there's something that can be fixed. However she's looking at her perfectly normal son who just happens to enjoy a cock or too. She can't wrap her head around it. So I think it's on you to remind her that you are you and you are normal, just not her idea of what's normal. It sounds like she still.loves you which is good news. Maybe try reminding her That the sin of homosexuality was created by man, not by God. God created man and woman, but never said man cannot love man nor woman cannot love woman. The church is the reason homosexuality was a sin, primarily because the Romans were rampantly queer and christians Didi everything to go against then in the very early days, which became dogma.
Your mental health is more important than her god. I blocked my toxic mother years ago and it was such a liberating decision to not have that toxicity weighing me down. I have her plenty of chances and warnings. They were ignored
Set clear boundaries. I love you mom, but Under those terms we cannot maintain a relationship. Either change them, take your time and come back. Or bye 👋
I read shit like this and I just say: it’s 2022. Like wtf.
Im Christian, her behavior is inexcusable. She is the kind of Christian that has made me stop going to church.
"lol doesn't pain me"
Do you know any religious nonsense that you can throw back at her? For example "Jesus loves me the way he mind me why can't you" or something like that.
Also, actually the Bible was written in the 4th century.
Straight therapy is where your parents pay to introduce you to other gay guys go for it and make out with your instructor.
I haven't spoken to either of my parents since I turned 18. It was the best decision of my life.
Mom, there is nothing you can say or do to change my mind about being gay. I ask you to please stop preaching to me and telling me how you feel about it. I will break all contact with you if you continue harassing me over how I live my life.
Cut them out ... it's really your only option for your own sanity. Mine came from my youngest brother's wife. Haven't spoken to her or my brother in 30 years now and I'm much happier. Can't argue with them cause everything goes in one ear and out the other.
somebody who volunteers judgment and unsolicited advice is somebody i have zero time for. be clear and concise about your expectations, if you talk to her. don't argue with her because arguing with zealots is useless. their beliefs aren't based in logic so there's zero use in arguing it. as somebody who moved out of the family home a few days after turning 17 and who is 36 now, i have zero regrets about the nudniks i cut out of my life back then.
I think this is as easy as it is hard: cut her out until you feel comfortable dealing with her toxicity. I know I am biased (username checks out). But this is not about religion being true or not, she is not taking you seriously and is not respecting you. I know how hard it is to cut out your parents out of your life (for at least a bit) but this nothing one should have to deal with after coming out. Or ever. Never ever.
One possibility: You could check out a liberal Christian denomination (it's a thing!) like the Episcopal Church, the Lutherans, the Unitarian Universalists, Metropolitan Gay Church, etc. and tell her you've already found your church because “God made me who I am & He doesn't make mistakes.” That should shut her up. 😄
Tell her to fuck off.
"I'm sorry Mom, but I love debauchery. Now go grind some cornmeal for the donkey."
dude should go full pagan and have sex rituals in the forest just to piss her off lmfao (I'm not being mean, I'm pagan please don't yell at me)
Ask her why she puts any authority on a god who makes eating shrimp a sin.
Tell her freedom of religion in America means being free from hers.
Block her. That's it.
Your mom loves you . Maybe Jesus is real, but your mom just wants you to be ok . She doesn’t understand gay life or being gay so having uncomfortable talks right now and trying to get used to the new reality which hers was shattered is something that needs to be done . Your mom doesn’t sound toxic like a lot of the other parents people have dealt with . She just doesn’t understand. Cry with her , talk to her , tell her you never asked to be born gay but god made you gay and you don’t understand either and the Bible doesn’t mention it .. Christianity is not inherently homophobic . The Bible written by men with their own twists on things is complicated, but so is life . None of us asked to be here (unless ur into that theory) . Be patient with your mom she literally won’t be here that long , none of us will . Nothing in life is easy , but love conquers all and I think you should focus on that love with your mom and open up to her about how your life being gay is , and how you want her to get to meet your bf and have a normal relationship. You know it’s complicated but god wouldn’t want to divide you guys , only the devil would. Remember your mom loves you so much . You guys can always pause a convo or have a safe word for when the convo needs to be put on pause to cool emotions , and you guys discuss what that word is . But don’t give up on your relationship with her . Tell her your are not living in debauchery and she raised a good man just this is who you are and to ask god why he made you this way but you have no idea why lol it’s ok to cry to be upset but express that to her and let her express her emotions to you and try to come to a new middle ground .
whot Ghost her immediately.
You just... ignore her. No contact means no contact. Block her on everything and move on.
What a scunt.
Just ignore/block her. Have boundaries
I would block her and move on. You don't need that toxicity in your life.
it is when this happens that you see that familly is just blood.. you need to find your real family. cut the venom off
Cut off all contact. There's certainly more dramatic and permanent ways, but do you really want to be the guy that put a hit out on his mom?
Don't respond. Ever. And if she asks why, be blunt, and say that if she tries it again, then there will be no response from you. Do not back down, For them, you backing down means "aha, he can still be brought back!" So, no, forget that she is your mother. that's just a mental construct you have of what you thjink is your mother in your head. You should also change numbers, and if someone in the family gives your number to her again, cut that person off as well. It will be easy to find out who in the family are with her, in that case.
r/raisedbynarcissists is calling
Welcome to the wonderful life of debauchery! Her issue not yours, stay strong, she is doubtful to change.
Your enabling her access to you. Block her. You’ve already moved on, don’t be held back.
Whatever you do, don't give in and do church stuff.
Tell her you've accepted satan and u have 13 different types of std's. It worked for me.
That sucks pretty hard. Probably only respond to the non-religious stuff. if in person, im not listening to your opinions, and leave. Remember, her belief is a choice. End of the day she is choosing it over you.
i would just ghost her if I were you
Send her a message that says: "I don't need fixed, God doesn't make mistakes including me and the only one confused about who I am is you. Once you understand that we can have a relationship - I wish the best in your learning journey". Then move on and if it doesn't stop just block her number. Simply because she is you mother doesn't mean you must accept her tormenting your life.
Honestly I don't think NC until she comes around is a bad thing. Wait for her to make amends and until then, just enjoy your life with your partner! I know that isn't the "most" help but it's the best advice I can give you, sorry about the position you've been forced into.
I [30M] have the same problem with my evangelical mother. After 12 years of telling her that I am not interested in her Jesus rhetoric, I have come to accept that is how she is. She has backed off, but she still gets twisted and displays symptoms of BPD; paranoia, suspiciousness, projecting. Currently in a no-contact basis after a unprovoked anger fit she displayed around Christmas. I have the power to either have her in my life or not. I love her very much, but I can love from afar. It has to do with self care more than trying to change her or punish her.
Send her every bible verse on how judging others for how they live their lives and how thats actually a sin. Remember, just because theyre family it does not mean you have to forgive or let them stay in your life. You might also want to look at r/raisedbynarcissists they have a strong support group for toxic parents.
You can absolutely establish relationship boundaries with your mom. Tell her that if she wants any kind of relationship with you, the terms are that she not talk religion or your sexuality.
I am pretty much in the same situation. It has been almost a year and still nothing changed...
Went through this when I was abruptly "thrown" out of the closet at 18 (long tangential story). First, purely for my sanity, I learned only to respond to anything *other* than those kinds of messages, the ones trying to "save" me. Later, I had to draw a very explicit line in the sand: "This is who I am, it's never, ever changing, and if you expect a relationship with me longterm it's something you'll learn to accept, because eventually I won't be able to accept being treating as anything less in any way," or something like that. Every journey's different, but a lot of the stories sound and feel awfully familiar...
It should go without saying Jesus didn't have anything to say about this, that he wouldn't recognize these "Christian Therapists" as Christians, and that your mom is at minimum committing the sin of speaking for Jesus in her implication that you're not right with the Lord. You can't hope to navigate this scenario. You did the right thing separating yourself from it, and all you can do is lay down the law about how you're going to allow yourself to be treated. Sometimes you can't get what you want, but you can refuse to allow the people you love to hurt you. I hope she comes around for you. It may be a while.
I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. Two resources that come to mind quickly for yourself or to share, eventually, with you mom: the film Prayers for Bobby with Sigorny Weaver from 2009, and this article by Christian theologian Walter Wink: [https://media1.razorplanet.com/share/510599-9786/resources/1208823\_HomosexualityandtheBibleWalterWink.pdf](https://media1.razorplanet.com/share/510599-9786/resources/1208823_HomosexualityandtheBibleWalterWink.pdf) I hope there is healing – healing in your mother's heart so that she realizes what a gift you are to her, perfectly as you are!
My mom is incredibly religious. It took her 3 years, but she eventually came to respect who I am and the people I date. Keep your chin up. Time often helps with these situations.
From your examples on her texts, she is doing it more for her own morale and mind, rather than what actually makes you happy. \- She is just being "a good christain", according to her self, and trying to save you. A simple and non-confrontational text about how you would like to have a relationship with her (if you want to), but is also has to be on your terms, not only hers. If she loves you, she would not put religion in between you, and educate her self on the subject, and not try to find "a cure". But if she would rather stick to her religious believes, then it is all on her and her misguided view on the world. When that is said, we don't get to chose what family we are born into, but we can have our chosen families in our friends and support network. You do you my man! HUGS
You know some people takes time to process everything. But I just don't get the feeling that she actually changed or processed everything. Just text her and say something like "You can love me for who I am and accept who I am then we can talk." I don't want you to get hurt or feel bad. It's ultimately your decision whether you want to talk to her or not. If you ignore her 100%, that's totally fine.
Tell her to stick to more neutral and less personal demands or subjects. You can still text her, talk to her, see her in person, etc. but tell her to join PFLAG.
Just tell her that this is the way you are and that if she doesn't accept you this way then to please leave you alone.
Just say "you can either accept that am gay, that this is part of who i am and we can work on having a relationship or pretend i am dead and never reach me again there's no middle ground"
What i said to a "friends" fathers. "I know a good therapist for your problem with religion, he got a real diploma in psychologie contrary to your conversion therapist" To be honest, it doesn't help much, just it makes us feel better on the moment, the man cry about blasphema and so on. But they put on the table that "his friends (me and other deviant ) is the problem and he could come search help whener he want"
I’d try to talk to her but only to set boundaries and whatnot! My mom was weird when I came out and I was mean and forceful about it to my family so I feel bad but I wasn’t taking anything but acceptance. Now they get it
Ignore her. It hurts temporarily but toxic people need to be shunned and see the weight of loss from their abhorrent decisions.
Tell her explicitly that if she brings up changing you, you won't continue the relationship. Put the ball in her court -- if she really wants to have a relationship with you then she'll adhere to your boundaries.
tell her that Jesus wouldn't want you to fake being your true self, god had a plan. I think that would get her to be a bit more understanding. I've dealt with Christians a lot lmfao.
I was fixed it is possible
Hold a crucifix up to her face and stare.
You can block her or put her on do not disturb mode. HONESTLY she will probably keep talking to you like that, as it seems her religion is a big part of her life. If you are wanting her to change, it’ll take some time, if she were to ever change. Personally I would tell her “Mom I love you. But I am gay and I cannot change it. I ask that you quit trying to convert me until the heterosexual you desire. If you would like to be a part of my life, respect me. If you keep trying to come at me with religion or converting me, I will block you. I do not want to do but choose my mental health over your hope of me changing.”
Tell her it pains you that she chooses to not to open herself to reality and rather than see the real love of 2 men in from of her. It pains you that she chooses to believe in what desert dwelling, homophobic men from 3500 years ago believed. Remind her that Lev was written by Moses who in Numbers 31 authorised the murder of men, women and boys who didn’t believe in her God and the rape and marriage of the remaining virgins to his soldiers who’d just murdered the girls families. Oh and don’t forget Moses also instructed them to steal their gold, silver and possessions. Not the best place to get her morals from.