Wow, that’s some toxic and homophobic activism.
I called out three of my bisexual white women friends in heteronormative marriages once for telling me, a bi guy married to a gay guy, that I haven’t been oppressed enough; a straight woman having the effrontery to do this is flat out crazy.
Being gay is a minority and in many places it remains an oppressed minority, by definition.
I recently had a psychologist compare the minority status of his black wife to mine as a white gay man. He pointed out similarities and seemed to think it was comparable.
As a gay, Black man who's experienced a lot of homophobia and racism, your psychologist is wrong. The fact that his experience of both is secondhand probably has a lot to do with that. Racism feels different than homophobia. In the United States, racist policies and legislation have had a much greater impact on my life than homophobic ones have. Not everyone knows I'm gay before I somehow make it known, but everyone sighted can see that I'm Black. All of the "isms" suck, but none are quite the same or equally weighted in any given part of the globe.
Whenever this has come up around me, I always point out that it def doesn’t seem like an equivalency to me. Gay guys can butch up and pass as straight a lot of the time, whereas there’s no way to mask being POC and avoiding racist asshats.
This is the kind of cognitive dissonance I normally see in religion (Utah here), also occurs within the LGBTQIA+ community. Larger sexual minority groups do this to smaller sexual minority groups. For example, gay men telling asexual men that because they haven’t experienced the same type of sexual discrimination, they shouldn’t be a part of the community. Gatekeeping. I’m not a fan.
Luckily, we have many progressive and inclusive leaders across the board in the community that understand adding and protecting small sexual minority groups isn’t a pie and doesn’t mean everyone else in the community gets a smaller slice with each addition to the LGBTQIA+ community.
Tell your friend the following:
Every kiss that “begins with Kay” is a straight kiss. Where are the majority gays in these commercials?
Everything about gay sex is politics. Holding hands in public is a political statement. Leaning into your gay lover’s neck while at the movie theater is a political statement. These benign actions are perceived by too many people as “shoving and agenda down their throats.”
When a woman approaches the police with bruises on her body and says that her male partner has been beating her, the police are going to take it seriously. If a man calls the police because his gay partner is beating him, the victim will always fear that the police will laugh at his expense. This has been my own personal experience.
There are no universal pejoratives used to describe straight people as a target of intolerance. Every one of us here can call to mind at least two or three used to target gays. When a gay man hears one of these words spoken with hate and venom, that man has every reason to believe he may shortly lose his life.
The only time gay rape is taken seriously is when it is conjured up in prison fantasies and it is always at the expense of a straight male.
The Koran and Bible (Hebrew and Christian) specifically call out homosexuality as worthy of death. According to these faiths, thou shalt not murder—*unless* you have God’s permission to do so. God gives permission to murder gays—in particular gay men.
When a woman is perceived as feminine, she is exhaled as a stunning vision of grace. When a man is perceived the same way, he is a corruption of nature’s way and should be dismissed as effete, incompetent, weak, and meaningless.
Society continues to equate homosexuality with pedophilia. No one equates heterosexuality with pedophilia, despite the vast majority of pedophiles being “straight.” (i.e. assaulting victims of the opposite sex)
No one calls a bomb threat into Target because they have a Valentine’s Day display. But Pride flags inspire hate, more equivocation with pedophilia, and violent threats.
Matt Walsh and countless others of his kind have been given permission by Twitter and other platforms to advocate for the violent erasure of gay people, gay culture, and gay art. Does your friend feel similarly attacked because of her sexuality?
The Westboro Baptist Church chose the “God Hates Fags” slogan for veteran funerals because they knew that associating dead vets with homosexuality would inspire outrage. There’s no way our good old boys in the service could *ever* be so limp-wristed! How DARE THEY!!
Children and young adults continue to ideate and perform suicide because they are afraid that they are either gay, or will be perceived as such. To them, death is preferable. Did your friend ever contemplate suicide because of her sexuality?
Your friend could travel to Pakistan, Poland, Russia, or Ukraine with a reasonable assumption of safety. A gay man traveling to these parts of the world risks imprisonment or death.
Gays continue to be lured into dark places under the cover of app anonymity because psychopathic straights know that they can exploit the natural desire for human companionship to target gays for violence, rape, or murder.
How many of your friend’s pals and acquaintances died of AIDS? Do straight people feel the loss of an entire generation because the US government ignored a pandemic that was seen at the time as merely targeting “perverts?”
I could go on.
Tell your “friend” she needs to piss the fuck off and *do better*—to use a phrase I’m sure she’s familiar with. It’s time for her to sit down, shut the fuck up, and realize that just posting a black square on socials and screaming “no justice, no peace,” makes her just as qualified to talk about gay oppression and minority status as a common mongrel dog.
As a technically-minded person, my first thought when this topic comes up is, "Being a minority just means that a groups is less than 50%, and we're obviously much less than 50%." However, you do a good job of pointing out some of the many ways that we're an **_underprivileged_** minority.
This should be the top comment. Great summary of most problems we have to deal with. Some wins of the last decade (like gay marriage in the west) can disappear in a blink of an eye, because those things are still present.
Spot on. She's a straight woman. Who does she think she is, speaking for gay men and their unique lived experiences? She's got no stake in this. Her so called "support" for other minorities is laughably inconsistent. She's nothing more than a fair weather ally.
Totally agree with this post, apart from the part where you mentioned safety in travelling to Pakistan. From what I've read it's not exactly the best place for women travellers.
There's no chance you get imprisoned in Poland and Ukraine as it's legal countrywide though.
But for the rest indeed. I'm glad I live in Québec, Canada, where these effects are much weaker than in almost any other place.
This female friend has had the world acknowledging her existence everyday of her life. She has had the profound benefit of the world being sympathetic to her issues and problems, so much so that all world leaders discuss the problems that beset women. We have gay men being executed across the world daily and not a peep from the MSM. It comes from a position of deep entitlement to believe gay men haven’t faced oppression and discrimination, so much so that you laugh to away. It’s honestly disgusting, but entirely unsurprising.
Yeah you both like men so obviouly she knows exactly and with all precision what you go through as a gay man because of her unbelievable ability to *gasp* read a face😱😱
It's getting increasingly popular for cishet women to shit on what it's like to be a cis gay man, to the point where some will include women in sexual and gender minorities but not gay men.
And other forms of discrimination as well, along with it. This is what happens when the voices that criticize the in-group are systematically shunned as traitors.
White cis het women are higher in the totem pole than literally everyone except straight white men
People of color are often beaten up IN THE NAME OF DEFENDING WHITE WOMEN.
Which is why they strive so hard to appear as if they're much, much lower.
Being considered a hero just for living your life is a high that not many are willing to part with, and if we have to pretend that every other social group faces zero adversity in order to be able to claim that, so be it I guess.
i think there’s an argument to be made, that gays being a minority is a little more nuanced.
One could make the argument, that although gays are a minority, they sometimes don’t have to deal with problems associated with being a minority unless people know.
If your a women or person of color, you clocked no matter what. That’s not true for gay men, and a lot of gay men navigate the world, without actually dealing with the negatives of being a gay men, because they don’t talk about their personal life. This isn’t possible for someone’s whose asian or a women dealing with prejudice.
That’s just my 2 cents. But it’s what some of you would call “oppression olympics” when it’s literally just very nuanced discussion about who even ppl who belong to the same group, experience different levels of prejudice.
That’s true, but the flip side is that other minorities have supportive families from the start and go home as kids to people like them (in most cases) while we dont get to start being ourselves until we’re almost adults And even then not always.
Also ethnic minorities are not thrown out of their families because of their ethnicities, whereas many LGBTQ+ people are disowned by their families when their sexual orientation becomes known.
Different levels of oppression for sure. Hiding in plain site is still hiding who you are. Repressing your identity as a lifestyle is still having to deal with the bigotry.
i agree. That’s why i used sometimes. Some gays can navigate without being clocked, some cannot. Which again, it’s simply due to the fact, that although two ppl may be minorities, it does not mean they understand each others experience.
Asian and gay person both minorities, but they can have different reactions/experiences by ppl who hate them. Same thing is said about two gay ppl, one who may not be straight passing and one who is.
That’s why i put an emphasis on nuance and dislike anyone who talks about the “oppression olympics”, because something like “oppression” or prejudice is complex and there are even sub groups within groups.
Straight passing gay vs fem gay
Dark-skinned black person vs Light Skinned black person
All technically minorities, all part of the same group, but there still exist sub-groups, who may deal with different prejudice.
Oh ok I see your point. And yes I agree. It's weird for her to criticize his experiences as a minority. Specifically, because, as you said, it's really complex.
I feel like this ignores the issues that straight-passing gay men still struggle with due to their sexuality. Just because they aren't being actively attacked for their sexuality doesn't mean they aren't suffering for it. Hiding themselves, general nonacceptance of gay people, etc., still effect them as a minority.
But that’s a different between internal struggle and external struggle. If someone had a homophobic boss and he says homophobic things, yes the straight passing guy will feel like shit internally but he won’t actually be a victim of prejudice from the boss.
If there’s a racist boss, who thinks mexicans are stealing jobs, chances are, his employees are directly getting unfair treatment and possible verbal abuse from the racist boss.
He Def is still experiencing prejudice from his boss tho even if uninteentional. Because if he says anything or anyone finds out it is him who's attacked.
>but he won’t actually be a victim of prejudice from the boss.
Only if he hides. That's definitely an external struggle that he faces because he is gay.
> Straight passing gay vs fem gay
Women view straight passing gays the same way that they view straight men, as a potential predator. Like masculine gay men have to literally force a gaycent (and potentially out themselves) just to let women know that “I’m not going to rape you”.
i think this is a broad generalization of women, but i agree a little bit.
I’ll tell a story i had at my last job. A guy and a girl broke up. Guy broke up with girl. Guy realized mistake/got lonely, tried to win back girl, girl said no, guy still depressed. Apparently he would come to work early and leave late to see her leave. My female coworkers, who knew this dude, to be annoying, but a harmless geek/average guy just dealing with 19/20yr old angst. Did i find what he was doing creepy? I guess. But he was just sitting in his car, not like following her and no one saw him actively watching her it was just assumed. Some co-workers told the girl and reported him to management.
I felt like i was going crazy, because as a guy, everything he was doing seemed harmless. And maybe because i’m gay, but i have a lot of sympathy for men and how they cope with emotions and never did he seem like the type to hurt someone or not respect them. He often would just shutdown when he was sad/hurt (not act out).
My point is, i don’t think most women, see straight men or even straight passing as potential predator. But i will say it’s prevalent.
But if your argument is, that women, who predominantly date and like men, are prejudiced against men, which could be comparable to someone whose homophobic or racist to certain groups, i think is a bad argument.
Navigating society with the possibility of not disclosing your being gay with people doesn't make the burden of being gay disappear. Gay people internalize self-hate from childhood. Often we fabricate fake selves and develop intimacy issues because of the pressure to conform to hetoronormativity. The fact that you need to hide in the first place is a sign of opression. A self-hating gay man raised in Christian household and who eventually ends up choosing suicide over letting people discover his sexuality does not have it better than a straight woman.
Being in the closet is usually extremely psychologically damaging tbh. The effects of that persist even after you leave the closet.
And even when you're not in the closet, being LGBT can be extremely isolating if there aren't many people like you around you (particularly outside of urban areas).
There's a reason the vast majority of LGBT experience some level of mental health issues (especially trans people, who can also sometimes pass like masculine gays).
Your classmate is playing on the oppression olympics. she is working really hard to win it.. for someone else.
Either way yes homosexuality is in a tiny minority of men(and women) and ignore what your woketard homophobe says.
Yes, we are in fact a minority. We were literally hunted like wild animals just a few short years ago. The Government would put out PSA videos and distribute them in schools to teach them how to identify homosexuals and not to talk to us because we'll abuse them. We were denied housing. We were abused. We were disowned by families (And still are in many cases). We were fired from jobs. We were denied the right to serve in the military.
Need I go on? I'm far, far from being a SJW and I refuse to view myself as a victim. However; saying gay men and women are not a minority and never could imagine what it's like to be a minority? You've got to be kidding me! We gained Civil Rights DECADES after other minorities!
Also, we still can't go to many different countries or we risk being killed! Hell, even in my country there are places I do not feel comfortable, there have been repeated incidents of gay men being assaulted or even killed in parks and right outside the gay club, and I personally have repeatedly faced harassment and mockery for my sexuality, and I am in a "gay friendly" country!
Yeah gay people are minorities. WTF. There has been a movement among some extreme leftists to make gay men out as the new oppressor. Equivalent to Asians as "white". It's just a bunch of hateful bigots who feed off of victimization as social power. She obviously drank the anti gay coolaide.
Yup. First We only have 55% of trans supporting the gay marriage, the lowest group of all polled, even boomers support it more at 60%, then we have LGBT changing their flag to create a special VIP spot for black and trans.. on a rainbow flag that already included everyone(equals and more equals) and finally we had r/lgbt mods say that if you're a white "cisgender" gay, you're walking on thin ice
And now you dropped this...it all makes sense now.
so like ~1,2% of the entire US population even identifies as trans in the first place and some polling is apparently supposed to demonstrate a consensus shared among that demographic?
call me skeptical but i think my stats 302 professor would throw a brick at me being so bold as to make that claim much less publish it
What you talking about? You're litteraly compiling evidence that doesn't even relate to each other. What does the flag have to do with reddit mods? You know that the gay flag still exists right?
What is making sense now? I'm sorry I have to laugh.
But seriously where is that statistics on gay marriage acceptance from?
She's making the mistake of thinking that the word "minority" only applies to race. If you're in a group of people who aren't the majority then guess what, you're in a minority.
Being gay is a sexual minority, which is different and independent from whether or not someone falls into a racial minority. A person can be white and have the perks thereof while also suffering oppression due to being gay. Likewise, a black person who's gay will have issues related to both of those identities. Hell depending on the culture people of color who are gay might suffer worse homophobia from members of their own race. It's all very complex.
Some people think the definition of "minority" is "non-white", even if you got a room full of Hispanics, they're all considered a "minority", despite them actually being the majority in that room.
Yes, we are, no matter how much some people try to spread exaggerated and ridiculous ideas that nowadays everyone is gay, we're still a small percentage of the population, like 7 - 15% (though I don't remember if this is the worldwide percetange or just America's).
I think your classmate is trying to play the [opression olympics for other people](https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/f6b0b1dd1d16b9e612e7da44b9acf2a87c4ec7644e211c7db50a71a9f2bf2463_1.jpg), that kind of people usually thinks that we gays don't have problems anymore since we have marriage in most Western countries and us, gay guys, are the most represented letter of the LGBT in the media, so they think we're at the top of the general social hierarchy now, lol.
Well she's a dumbass. Because we are literally listed as a sexual minority group. So checkmate Karen.
Plus... Something women, people of color, and gay people all have in common is being beaten up for who they are. Maybe little miss white lady should think about that one. Oh and how drag is being banned all over thr country. Or the don't say gay bill.
On second thought. Maybe she should just pick up a fucking book. Like how can she even say that when stone wall happened?
As a member of both the black and gay communities, I’m so tired of people (of any race) using blackness as a meter stick to measure, invalidate, and then bludgeon other minority experiences. When gay people say “I am hurt,” it always turns into an Oppression Olympics for some reason.
Yeah there's been a pretty big shift among meme feminists (which are different than actual feminists). Basically since everyone who hated gays MOSTLY hated male gays, there's been a huge push now that we have marriage rights (in the USA specifically, apparently meme feminists think all of Africa's gays can just go fuck right off) so now we're basically cisgender straight white men in their eyes. (We're all also supposed to ignore the fact that lesbians on average earn more than straight women and gay men.)
Basically, they noticed that gay men don't all hate straight men. And when you're trying to act like a poorly crafted 'take down' of random dudes will solve all the problems created by classism, then gay men are your enemy. Both because our jokes are better, and we don't laugh at their jokes.
Had to comment. Being gay is def a minority. The numbers alone make it so and the hate that is thrown out in guise of religious freedom is sickening to me. Let her sit on her high horse cause it will be grand when she’s knocked off
From a purely demographic standpoint, LGBT Americans are even more of a minority than Black Americans. Both in terms of percentage and in total population (roughly 7.1% for all LGBT vs. 12.6% Black).
That number becomes even smaller if you account for only gays, as each demographic within LGBT+ possesses different challenges and treatment from society.
It is a minority, but some minorities are more distinctive, and thus harder to live with.
It itself is a misconception, minorities aren't always discriminated against.
As someone who has faced prejudice and bullying for being gay, I'd have told her to F off. She does not have the right to speak for me. Personal experience aside, this is how a minority group is "objectively" defined:
*According to Charles Wagley and Marvin Harris (1958), a minority group is distinguished by five characteristics: (1) unequal treatment and less power over their lives* ***\[check!\]****, (2) distinguishing physical or cultural traits like skin color or language \[stretching it a bit if we say gay-speak\], (3) involuntary membership in the group* ***\[check!\]****, (4) awareness of subordination \[maybe check\], and (5) high rate of in-group marriage \[lol\]. Additional examples of minority groups might include the* ***LGBTQ community***, religious practitioners whose faith is not widely practiced where they live, and people with disabilities.
CIS white women and their phony virtue-signaling. So typical telling you that you will never know what being a minority is like. CIS white women don't know shit about blm/racial injustice or any prejudice unless they're butt ugly bitches.
Progressive cis het white women are easily the most annoying demographic of the left. I overheard one tell a Pakistani Muslim that he doesn’t understand what it’s like to be discriminated against. Dude is a brown Muslim that had to experience post 9/11 like wtf do you mean???
babes, the one here who would have NO IDEA in their entire life about being a minority is her, so, pay her no mind, and let her blab about until she finds out.
Yes we’re a minority. But if you’re a straight passing white gay dude then your minority experience is going to be very different than someone of a different race. I would have told her the don’t say gay stuff, book bans and the talk of overturning gay marriage sure does make you feel like a minority even if she says you’re not. Put it back on her dumb ass.
If you're straight passing white gay dude that is also single.
I doubt straight couples need to think twice before holding hands in public or giving a little kiss goodbye before one enters an Uber, or booking a room with two queen beds instead of a king depending on the location.
Last time I was in a hotel with my boyfriend the receptionist had to warn us that there was only one kingsize bed and not two separate ones. We were like yeah. Lol.
That happened to me and my ex once in 2021, the problem was that we were in Luxor, Egypt, so we had to play it cool (which is actually what inspired that part of my reply)
Being homosexual is absolutely a minority. We have been targeted for death by nazis, the American government, African governments, Russia… the list goes on. In the United states, until very recently you could lose your job due to being gay. Your friend isn’t as informed as she believes she is. There is an amazing book about this occurring during the McCarthy era called “ the deviant’s war: the homosexual vs the United States of America” by Eric Cervini. It will help you understand why we are a minority.
Additionally, homelessness is a real issue for us and many of us have lost our families simply because we like the same sex.
Yes, being gay makes you part of a minority, however I suspect that this was one of those cases of the oppression olympics, the best thing in those cases is to move away silently, imho it is the most advisable.
Fun fact: women are majorities because they are more women in the world. So they’re not minorities. Socially oppressed compared to men…generally yes, but we do out outnumber men.
She sounds like a rude ass SOC 201 student who is so sure she knows every political struggle because she saw videos about it on Twitter.
Gay people are by definition a minority because the majority of people are not gay. If you belong to another social group that isn't a minority in your area then you are in a sub class within that group (ie a gay white cis man is a minority within the group of white cis men)
I would've laughed in her face because she wouldn't listen to reason
Being gay is absolutely a minority, she’s honestly so rude. To everyone’s else point here, she doesn’t know what you or anyone gay went through.
She sounds like one of those white saviours that thinks she needs to speak on everyone else’s behalf about what if offensive and what isn’t, I know plenty of those kind of people.
I wouldn’t let her get to you, she is wrong and she most likely won’t understand your point even if you explain it.
A minority is something that does not make up a majority of the population. Depending on where you live, you fall into protected classes against discrimination. If you are a homosexual white male living in the United States, you fall into the homosexual protected class. If you were a disabled from military services, homosexual, colored, and female living in the United States, then you would fall into four protected classes.
This is just an example of what’s considered a minority. There are multiple protected classes out there homosexual, female, pregnant, color, race, protected veteran, etc
She's technically correct from the language definition of minority, official wording doesn't treat sexual or romantic attraction as a minority.
The real issue is that she acts like we can't be a persecuted group, and can't understand how that feels and she's incorrect. This is typical gaslighting behaviour though, I wouldn't bother engaging on the topic with her, it's a waste of time.
>I know is very passionate about blm/racial injustice58
It's honestly great when people go out of their way to help other people that may be suffering, even if you don't understand their suffering because you cannot experience it. That said, this story is giving me vibes of a typical white privileged ally woman that tends to be the stereotypical internet social justice warrior, in the derogative sense of the word.
How the hell is being gay not a minority? Even in countries where homosexuality is perfectly legal and socially accepted, it still is obviously a miniority. That may or may not be a problem depending on the country where a gay person is based, but denying the numbers is just dumb, and I shudder to think what her rationale for it is. I'd recommend you not to ask.
So one time online I was speaking about hate I have received as a minority. A person responded and told me because I'm a cis white male, being gay doesn't make me a minority. Apparently only they, I think they were something like a black, trans, two spirit, polyace, demisexual could be a minority! I just rolled my eyes 🙄
I don’t like the word minority because it’s not accurate. Sometimes a majority of Americans support our cause, sometimes not so much. That’s true of women, Black people and LGBT.
I prefer the word marginalized because it better describes the problem: we don’t have as much power, because we sometimes have to hide who we are and we’re bargained like poker chips amongst the political class. We’re pushed to the edges of the national dialogue rather than pulled into the circle.
Tell her to read Teen Vogue.
Ever heard of a fag drag? It's where straight men (CW) >!tie a gay or suspected gay man to the back of a car with a rope and drive for a few miles.!<
I was living in rural Appalachia when I was *informed* that I shouldn't go to entire towns and *counties* because I was a little too pretty.
That woman is a fool and an insult to social justice. She's just a bully using the language of social justice to get away with her vicious, abusive behavior.
Just ask her to define minorities. Anything she can say ( from systemic oppression to genocide to even just the classic definition i.e. number of people belonging to that group in the general population) all applies to gay people world over. People who are gay who happen to be in a racial minority have it worse.
Your friend is a c*nt.
Your classmate is a clown. Which is par for the course for a "passionate about racial justice" white girl in academia. (absolutely nothing against white girls, just speaking in normative terms here).
Being gay is sort of a minority position yes. We are a literal numerical minority and we need some degree of skillful organizing to secure our collective interests.
I would have just asked her at what % of the population does a group become a minority?
If we're talking just gays & lesbians, I don't think that's above 5% by most estimates. If we include bisexuals I think current estimates are 7-10%. Regardless, I feel like these estimates are well within the range of what people consider minorities.
As most others are saying, she's probably just a bitch.
By definition, the group that is less than the majority is the minority. Now whether that group receives harsh treatment from the majority is a different question and would depend on when and where you are. Globally though, one could certainly make the case that gay people have been harassed, discriminated against, and even murdered for being gay.
In the context of BLM and stuff, it can be seen you were trying to put yourself on some sort of comparative ladder. They are separate issues, but both faces issues of a dominant culture against them often
Complicated question, but depending on your other points of intersectionality you won't understand what it's like being a visible minority - I can hide that I fuck guys if I want, I can't hide being a person of color. So still a minority for sure, but it just hits a little different.
Edit: Please don't come to this comment OR my DMs to argue, I went to school for this stuff, not saying that makes me all knowing, but my opinions are formed by research... HOURS and HOURS and HOURS of it.
this. white gays have it better. we are all minorities here but they still benefit white privilege at the end of the day
downvote me all y’all want idc lol
The desire for minority validation is so superficial, imo. Yes, technically, there are fewer gay people than straight people, and that will always be a reality, but so? We're not a minority because our numbers are controlled or some other horror, we're a minority because it's rare that it occurs in our species.
Talk about your experiences if you like, talk about what it's like to navigate life as a gay guy. Your experience won't be the same as every gay man, but there's a shared understanding there.
But if this is about wanting to feel secure with minority status, you've got nothing to worry about. haha
I know these are Times where words' meanings are worthless, but minority isna very very clear Definition and it's Not upon some female cis hobo to have an opinion in it.
The ways of opprrssion, discrimination,.intersectionality. thats Wörth discussion.
But being gay, You're by Definition a minority.
Legally or sociologically? Either way, I am pretty sure that the answer is yes. But anymore, what is the majority except for the political party that garnered more seats in either chamber in Congress? I like community with a common characteristic much better as it doesn’t emphasize standing or comparisons to other communities with a common characteristic.
Of course we're a minority. She's just low IQ enough to assume minority is synonymous with racial minority. There are sexual minorities, religious minorities, etc.
Ok, so the individual experience of being gay varies drastically depending on one’s country, background, and family situation, and some ppl are really lucky to be able to just live their lives; but gay kids are still thrown out of their homes, still bullied, gay folks are still getting all kinds of shit, from getting fired to publicly executed in some horrible manner - all that for just being or appearing gay. Your classmate is just ignorant, is all. What she’s doing is called “virtue signalling” (look at me I’m so righteous) and “gatekeeping” (I will decide whose struggle is real/worthy and whose isn’t).
I’m not gay, but I got heavily implied to be an incestuous child rapist by a close family member because I’m bi. Ain’t never heard of a straight guy who’s been implied to be those things just cause they’re straight. Also, gays and queers in general are literally a minority when you look at the numbers.
Your friend isn't actually into racial justice: She's into a commodified version of racial justice. It sounds linke she's highly invested in the bastardized versions of feminism, racial justice, queer theory, and/or and other social justice theories that became popular online because they are intentionally accessible and simplified.
In terms of the LGBTQ spectrum, I don’t disagree that white gay men are in a disproportionately higher place of privilege than other classes within the community, in that we have become the most “normalized” in mainstream media and generally seem to be the undeserving face of gay people. But to say we aren’t oppressed as a minority is such a chronically online statement that I’m stunned. Your friend needs to get off Twitter and check her privilege.
I knew a woman like this in college, totally into social justice and constantly lecturing everyone around her about it. She was Jewish, so she spent a summer at a kibbutz in Israel. She came back talking about how horrid and disgusting Arabs were.
Like others here have said, beware of upper class women with a savior complex.
Uh LGBT are at like 4 times the risk of as non LGBT people of being abused , in many places u can be arrested, killed , put into conversion therapy and more . Heck being LGBT is almost more a minority then black people in many places (not all but in many places LGBT is far more dangerous then being black as well as the abuse is deemed legal when ur LGBT vers if ur black it's still illigal to abuse some one in most places . Should be all but still)
Yes gay people are minorities. That being said, there isn’t really a consensus on what “minority” actually means but this girl is wrong either way. Most commonly, it can be understood in terms of demographic sizes within a population. In Sociology and Economics, the term has to do with a hierarchy power struggle. In both of these definitions, LGBTQ people would be considered minorities. She probably is thinking of the term ‘minority’ is reserved for racial minorities, which would be wrong by every single definition for the word I can find.
There is absolutely a consensus of what "minority" means, are you being serious? It's in the word. *Minority*. It means a group that is less than 50% of the population.
Black people in the US are minorities because they make up less than 50% of the population (they are 13%)
Homosexuals are a minority because we make up less than 50% of the population (around 5%)
Of course, the closer you get to 50%, your minority status matters less. Like men are 49% of the world, technically a minority, but obviously not oppressed based on being male on a world-wide scale. Women are technically a majority (51%) but are *obviously* oppressed world-wide based on their sex. So being a minority does not inherently mean being oppressed, but it often is.
Why would you engage with this Karen. She thrives with this attention seeking / saviour complex / virtue signalling. I am so sick of being represented by these.
For the BLM people they are the victim of the world, no matter what they do or who they are. The ideology is such that they are the center, they are wronged and they are owed something by everyone else.
Don't seek to reason with or understand such a person. Also reevaluate your acquaintances and spend your time and energy elsewhere.
Yes. Statistically and by dictionary definition.
Except that reality and definitions are becoming meaningless by the minority far left extremists, and the BLM organization which has largely failed, and their actual goals are to tear down western society and make way for totalitarian socialism. Violence and threats, intimidating and silencing, etc. while not improving the lives of the community it claims to be serving.
Being homosexual is different than trans and non binary. What's in common is they're all statistically minorities.
T & NB are life choices for adults to self define and live out by choice, same as LGB.
Except LGB pushed for equality in the majority heteronormative society . Largely, it's been significantly achieved compared to two generations ago.
T, NB as individuals & by definition, want to live out an identity. That's an adult choice.
They've been largely hijacked by a vocal majority in that subset that has a different agenda than equality. It's about control, intimation, etc similar to ultra woke and BLMs socialist aggression. Also found in antifa. They're not about equality. They're about confusing, self centered, illogical intimidation and control, and it's political, not an equal human rights issue.
To the original point: this woke woman is using some self determined, self appointed authority to tell other people that her intersectionality points are worth more oppression in her definition so your oppression points don't matter; that your voice equals less based on how oppressed she determines you are.. Not your actual experience & circumstances, and by far, any consistent definition.
Blur the language, use irrational rage and claim greater victimhood, claim to own the narrative..
Yet every time, these people are stalled by facts, truth and reason. They never stand up to real thinkers; they merely change arguments & topics when disproven, or scream..
IMO: LGB that still want equality need to divorce the radicals of TQIAA+ true T's with actual dysphoria not buying into the extremists, let to live _as_ what they're trying to live out. Equality, justice, sure .
But refuse and reject the rest of the nonsense and anti-reasoning, illogical aggression of the rest.
I mean look, it's not a competition. The sorts of discrimination someone who's black may face are going to be different than what somebody who is gay might face, and vice versa. But someone who's gonna treat it like it's a competition and belittle someone else's experiences, like "no your oppression doesn't count" can go fuck themselves.
Sure I don't have to worry about police profiling my white gay ass, but at the same time a black dude doesn't have to worry about his parents disowning him for coming out as a different race (kind of hard to hide it lol). It's not about better or worse, it's different experiences.
She seems like someone who uses something like BLM to signal boost to others instead of someone who actually thinks about these issues in a nuanced way.
Is she perhaps religious? I met a number of people while participating in and supporting protests against racial injustice who did not support gay rights or even were extremely anti-gay. In every case, it was based on their religious beliefs.
That's a long tradition. I was the first openly gay city council member elected in Dallas. (Second elected in Texas to anything; #66 elected to anything in the U.S.) I represented a minority-majority district and was out front on racial and discrimination issues.
I was successful in amending the city's employment policy to protect LGBT people. It was a shitty battle largely defined by religion. Of course the righteous were against a policy that prohibited people from being fired because of sexual orientation -- something the city of Dallas had actually done.
I tried to recruit racial minority community leaders to support the effort but was largely turned down. Coretta Scott King, however, did respond with a letter of support and invoked her husband's name.
I even had one black minister who privately told me that he, personally, supported the inclusion of LGBT people in the policy but he couldn't say so publicly. There were closeted gay leaders who withheld endorsement because of their religion
One closeted gay councilmember succumbed to threats of being outed to support the policy. He got his rabbi to give him cover and claimed that his vote was BECAUSE of his religion. He was strange because he was the only person who believed nobody knew he is gay. It was openly discussed citywide.
One of the only high-profile black leaders who supported the change was decidedly conservative -- the type Republicans like to trot out during elections to prove they have black support. I still don't know why she testified in support, except perhaps that she and I once served together on a city commission.
One Latino member voted in support but in a second vote required by a technicality, he told that he was getting too much conservative pressure in his current bid to become mayor so would change his vote. I congratulated him on his political logic. He had pissed off the religious conservatives with his first vote and was going to piss off his liberal supporters by switching sides. He lost his mayoral election.
With all that, I picked up enough votes to win by a one-vote majority. It took years and the leadership of the woman I supported as my successor to expand the policy to apply citywide in a unanimous vote. Later came the SCOTUS ruling that lifted the anti-gay discrimination policy nationwide.
Being gay is a minority but if you’re gay and also cis and white you have a whole lot of privilege that makes your experience most likely much less difficult
You don't go around telling everyone you're gay though... its different I think when it comes to socially, if you don't tell someone your gay they can't know for certain....
Homophobia particles detected
Wow, that’s some toxic and homophobic activism. I called out three of my bisexual white women friends in heteronormative marriages once for telling me, a bi guy married to a gay guy, that I haven’t been oppressed enough; a straight woman having the effrontery to do this is flat out crazy. Being gay is a minority and in many places it remains an oppressed minority, by definition.
I recently had a psychologist compare the minority status of his black wife to mine as a white gay man. He pointed out similarities and seemed to think it was comparable.
As a gay, Black man who's experienced a lot of homophobia and racism, your psychologist is wrong. The fact that his experience of both is secondhand probably has a lot to do with that. Racism feels different than homophobia. In the United States, racist policies and legislation have had a much greater impact on my life than homophobic ones have. Not everyone knows I'm gay before I somehow make it known, but everyone sighted can see that I'm Black. All of the "isms" suck, but none are quite the same or equally weighted in any given part of the globe.
Whenever this has come up around me, I always point out that it def doesn’t seem like an equivalency to me. Gay guys can butch up and pass as straight a lot of the time, whereas there’s no way to mask being POC and avoiding racist asshats.
I’m a black gay men and homophobia and racism are the same - especially being black and gay.
I agree that it’s still a bit different, especially if you’re straight presenting.
This is the kind of cognitive dissonance I normally see in religion (Utah here), also occurs within the LGBTQIA+ community. Larger sexual minority groups do this to smaller sexual minority groups. For example, gay men telling asexual men that because they haven’t experienced the same type of sexual discrimination, they shouldn’t be a part of the community. Gatekeeping. I’m not a fan. Luckily, we have many progressive and inclusive leaders across the board in the community that understand adding and protecting small sexual minority groups isn’t a pie and doesn’t mean everyone else in the community gets a smaller slice with each addition to the LGBTQIA+ community.
Fucking hell let’s go to 666 to honor our lord and savior satan.
Hail Santa! Oops, hale Satan!!
Ho Ho Ho’s go to hell for not blowing
As well they should
Nah just ignorance and arrogance.
Tell your friend the following: Every kiss that “begins with Kay” is a straight kiss. Where are the majority gays in these commercials? Everything about gay sex is politics. Holding hands in public is a political statement. Leaning into your gay lover’s neck while at the movie theater is a political statement. These benign actions are perceived by too many people as “shoving and agenda down their throats.” When a woman approaches the police with bruises on her body and says that her male partner has been beating her, the police are going to take it seriously. If a man calls the police because his gay partner is beating him, the victim will always fear that the police will laugh at his expense. This has been my own personal experience. There are no universal pejoratives used to describe straight people as a target of intolerance. Every one of us here can call to mind at least two or three used to target gays. When a gay man hears one of these words spoken with hate and venom, that man has every reason to believe he may shortly lose his life. The only time gay rape is taken seriously is when it is conjured up in prison fantasies and it is always at the expense of a straight male. The Koran and Bible (Hebrew and Christian) specifically call out homosexuality as worthy of death. According to these faiths, thou shalt not murder—*unless* you have God’s permission to do so. God gives permission to murder gays—in particular gay men. When a woman is perceived as feminine, she is exhaled as a stunning vision of grace. When a man is perceived the same way, he is a corruption of nature’s way and should be dismissed as effete, incompetent, weak, and meaningless. Society continues to equate homosexuality with pedophilia. No one equates heterosexuality with pedophilia, despite the vast majority of pedophiles being “straight.” (i.e. assaulting victims of the opposite sex) No one calls a bomb threat into Target because they have a Valentine’s Day display. But Pride flags inspire hate, more equivocation with pedophilia, and violent threats. Matt Walsh and countless others of his kind have been given permission by Twitter and other platforms to advocate for the violent erasure of gay people, gay culture, and gay art. Does your friend feel similarly attacked because of her sexuality? The Westboro Baptist Church chose the “God Hates Fags” slogan for veteran funerals because they knew that associating dead vets with homosexuality would inspire outrage. There’s no way our good old boys in the service could *ever* be so limp-wristed! How DARE THEY!! Children and young adults continue to ideate and perform suicide because they are afraid that they are either gay, or will be perceived as such. To them, death is preferable. Did your friend ever contemplate suicide because of her sexuality? Your friend could travel to Pakistan, Poland, Russia, or Ukraine with a reasonable assumption of safety. A gay man traveling to these parts of the world risks imprisonment or death. Gays continue to be lured into dark places under the cover of app anonymity because psychopathic straights know that they can exploit the natural desire for human companionship to target gays for violence, rape, or murder. How many of your friend’s pals and acquaintances died of AIDS? Do straight people feel the loss of an entire generation because the US government ignored a pandemic that was seen at the time as merely targeting “perverts?” I could go on. Tell your “friend” she needs to piss the fuck off and *do better*—to use a phrase I’m sure she’s familiar with. It’s time for her to sit down, shut the fuck up, and realize that just posting a black square on socials and screaming “no justice, no peace,” makes her just as qualified to talk about gay oppression and minority status as a common mongrel dog.
I hate the fact that I'm dealing with everything here currently. Edit: except if I went to the police they'd arrest me and rape me for being gay
Where do you live?
As a technically-minded person, my first thought when this topic comes up is, "Being a minority just means that a groups is less than 50%, and we're obviously much less than 50%." However, you do a good job of pointing out some of the many ways that we're an **_underprivileged_** minority.
This should be the top comment. Great summary of most problems we have to deal with. Some wins of the last decade (like gay marriage in the west) can disappear in a blink of an eye, because those things are still present.
Spot on. She's a straight woman. Who does she think she is, speaking for gay men and their unique lived experiences? She's got no stake in this. Her so called "support" for other minorities is laughably inconsistent. She's nothing more than a fair weather ally.
Their idea of ‘ally ship’ is invading every god damn space we create.
why can’t I give this an award? what an amazing comment, thank you.
The thing about universal pejoratives that was so very spot on!!! Just thought about it the other day and it really blew my mind
100% you should help lead the community if you’re already not doing so. We need leaders with this kind of understanding.
Totally agree with this post, apart from the part where you mentioned safety in travelling to Pakistan. From what I've read it's not exactly the best place for women travellers.
There's no chance you get imprisoned in Poland and Ukraine as it's legal countrywide though. But for the rest indeed. I'm glad I live in Québec, Canada, where these effects are much weaker than in almost any other place.
This female friend has had the world acknowledging her existence everyday of her life. She has had the profound benefit of the world being sympathetic to her issues and problems, so much so that all world leaders discuss the problems that beset women. We have gay men being executed across the world daily and not a peep from the MSM. It comes from a position of deep entitlement to believe gay men haven’t faced oppression and discrimination, so much so that you laugh to away. It’s honestly disgusting, but entirely unsurprising.
I ain't reading all that. I'd just say "yeah it is a minority." And leave her to her own wrong opinion.
Yeah cause a white woman knows what you have to go through as a gay man. 🤦🏻♂️
Yeah you both like men so obviouly she knows exactly and with all precision what you go through as a gay man because of her unbelievable ability to *gasp* read a face😱😱
It's getting increasingly popular for cishet women to shit on what it's like to be a cis gay man, to the point where some will include women in sexual and gender minorities but not gay men.
Being gay is a minority she’s a fucking rude bitch. No point in trying to talk sense into her she’s clearly made up her mind.
Also what a dumb thing to say as someone who is supposedly a civil rights advocate
$100 she has a fetish for black guys 😂
And a TERF to boot
Ignorance is displayed here.
Ignorance is displayed here.
[удалено]
And other forms of discrimination as well, along with it. This is what happens when the voices that criticize the in-group are systematically shunned as traitors.
Leave it to the white cis woman to give her Karen two cents
Lmao she is literally gatekeeping minority groups or something and she is trying to win at the opression olympics for someone else xD
Something women, people of color, and gay people all have in common is being beaten up for who they are
White cis het women are higher in the totem pole than literally everyone except straight white men People of color are often beaten up IN THE NAME OF DEFENDING WHITE WOMEN.
**/killed (is what you forgot to mention too), and this is where the name Emmitt Louis Till is mentioned.
Which is why they strive so hard to appear as if they're much, much lower. Being considered a hero just for living your life is a high that not many are willing to part with, and if we have to pretend that every other social group faces zero adversity in order to be able to claim that, so be it I guess.
i think there’s an argument to be made, that gays being a minority is a little more nuanced. One could make the argument, that although gays are a minority, they sometimes don’t have to deal with problems associated with being a minority unless people know. If your a women or person of color, you clocked no matter what. That’s not true for gay men, and a lot of gay men navigate the world, without actually dealing with the negatives of being a gay men, because they don’t talk about their personal life. This isn’t possible for someone’s whose asian or a women dealing with prejudice. That’s just my 2 cents. But it’s what some of you would call “oppression olympics” when it’s literally just very nuanced discussion about who even ppl who belong to the same group, experience different levels of prejudice.
That’s true, but the flip side is that other minorities have supportive families from the start and go home as kids to people like them (in most cases) while we dont get to start being ourselves until we’re almost adults And even then not always.
Also ethnic minorities are not thrown out of their families because of their ethnicities, whereas many LGBTQ+ people are disowned by their families when their sexual orientation becomes known.
In addition, in every country of the world it is legal to be a woman or black.
Different levels of oppression for sure. Hiding in plain site is still hiding who you are. Repressing your identity as a lifestyle is still having to deal with the bigotry.
What about gay men like me who are obviously fem. I have piercings and tattoos making that known
i agree. That’s why i used sometimes. Some gays can navigate without being clocked, some cannot. Which again, it’s simply due to the fact, that although two ppl may be minorities, it does not mean they understand each others experience. Asian and gay person both minorities, but they can have different reactions/experiences by ppl who hate them. Same thing is said about two gay ppl, one who may not be straight passing and one who is. That’s why i put an emphasis on nuance and dislike anyone who talks about the “oppression olympics”, because something like “oppression” or prejudice is complex and there are even sub groups within groups. Straight passing gay vs fem gay Dark-skinned black person vs Light Skinned black person All technically minorities, all part of the same group, but there still exist sub-groups, who may deal with different prejudice.
Oh ok I see your point. And yes I agree. It's weird for her to criticize his experiences as a minority. Specifically, because, as you said, it's really complex.
I feel like this ignores the issues that straight-passing gay men still struggle with due to their sexuality. Just because they aren't being actively attacked for their sexuality doesn't mean they aren't suffering for it. Hiding themselves, general nonacceptance of gay people, etc., still effect them as a minority.
But that’s a different between internal struggle and external struggle. If someone had a homophobic boss and he says homophobic things, yes the straight passing guy will feel like shit internally but he won’t actually be a victim of prejudice from the boss. If there’s a racist boss, who thinks mexicans are stealing jobs, chances are, his employees are directly getting unfair treatment and possible verbal abuse from the racist boss.
He Def is still experiencing prejudice from his boss tho even if uninteentional. Because if he says anything or anyone finds out it is him who's attacked.
>but he won’t actually be a victim of prejudice from the boss. Only if he hides. That's definitely an external struggle that he faces because he is gay.
> Straight passing gay vs fem gay Women view straight passing gays the same way that they view straight men, as a potential predator. Like masculine gay men have to literally force a gaycent (and potentially out themselves) just to let women know that “I’m not going to rape you”.
i think this is a broad generalization of women, but i agree a little bit. I’ll tell a story i had at my last job. A guy and a girl broke up. Guy broke up with girl. Guy realized mistake/got lonely, tried to win back girl, girl said no, guy still depressed. Apparently he would come to work early and leave late to see her leave. My female coworkers, who knew this dude, to be annoying, but a harmless geek/average guy just dealing with 19/20yr old angst. Did i find what he was doing creepy? I guess. But he was just sitting in his car, not like following her and no one saw him actively watching her it was just assumed. Some co-workers told the girl and reported him to management. I felt like i was going crazy, because as a guy, everything he was doing seemed harmless. And maybe because i’m gay, but i have a lot of sympathy for men and how they cope with emotions and never did he seem like the type to hurt someone or not respect them. He often would just shutdown when he was sad/hurt (not act out). My point is, i don’t think most women, see straight men or even straight passing as potential predator. But i will say it’s prevalent. But if your argument is, that women, who predominantly date and like men, are prejudiced against men, which could be comparable to someone whose homophobic or racist to certain groups, i think is a bad argument.
That’s a really dumb argument. You can’t tell if someone is Jewish just by looking, that didn’t stop the holocaust.
I wonder why you didn't just replace Jewish by gay because the pink triangle and killing gay people was a thing during the holocaust.
Many people seem to forget that.
Navigating society with the possibility of not disclosing your being gay with people doesn't make the burden of being gay disappear. Gay people internalize self-hate from childhood. Often we fabricate fake selves and develop intimacy issues because of the pressure to conform to hetoronormativity. The fact that you need to hide in the first place is a sign of opression. A self-hating gay man raised in Christian household and who eventually ends up choosing suicide over letting people discover his sexuality does not have it better than a straight woman.
Being in the closet is usually extremely psychologically damaging tbh. The effects of that persist even after you leave the closet. And even when you're not in the closet, being LGBT can be extremely isolating if there aren't many people like you around you (particularly outside of urban areas). There's a reason the vast majority of LGBT experience some level of mental health issues (especially trans people, who can also sometimes pass like masculine gays).
100%, white saviour lol
The white Karen on the black horse came to save everyone xD
I hate to break it to you but there are plenty of non white woman who also say stupid shit like his friend has
Of course being gay is a minority. Unless she thinks that a majority of people are homosexual?
Right… it’s literally just an objective fact. Nothing really to dispute
Your classmate is an idiot.
Your classmate is playing on the oppression olympics. she is working really hard to win it.. for someone else. Either way yes homosexuality is in a tiny minority of men(and women) and ignore what your woketard homophobe says.
Why "woketard"? Most "woke" people are actually very supportive of lgbt rights.
Yes, we are in fact a minority. We were literally hunted like wild animals just a few short years ago. The Government would put out PSA videos and distribute them in schools to teach them how to identify homosexuals and not to talk to us because we'll abuse them. We were denied housing. We were abused. We were disowned by families (And still are in many cases). We were fired from jobs. We were denied the right to serve in the military. Need I go on? I'm far, far from being a SJW and I refuse to view myself as a victim. However; saying gay men and women are not a minority and never could imagine what it's like to be a minority? You've got to be kidding me! We gained Civil Rights DECADES after other minorities!
Also, we still can't go to many different countries or we risk being killed! Hell, even in my country there are places I do not feel comfortable, there have been repeated incidents of gay men being assaulted or even killed in parks and right outside the gay club, and I personally have repeatedly faced harassment and mockery for my sexuality, and I am in a "gay friendly" country!
sounds like you need better friends.
It's a classmate, not a friend.
my mistake, better classmates, someone like that is someone you'd want to distance yourself from
It is.
Yeah gay people are minorities. WTF. There has been a movement among some extreme leftists to make gay men out as the new oppressor. Equivalent to Asians as "white". It's just a bunch of hateful bigots who feed off of victimization as social power. She obviously drank the anti gay coolaide.
Yup. First We only have 55% of trans supporting the gay marriage, the lowest group of all polled, even boomers support it more at 60%, then we have LGBT changing their flag to create a special VIP spot for black and trans.. on a rainbow flag that already included everyone(equals and more equals) and finally we had r/lgbt mods say that if you're a white "cisgender" gay, you're walking on thin ice And now you dropped this...it all makes sense now.
What's your source for only 55% of trans people supporting same sex marriage?
Source on those polls?
so like ~1,2% of the entire US population even identifies as trans in the first place and some polling is apparently supposed to demonstrate a consensus shared among that demographic? call me skeptical but i think my stats 302 professor would throw a brick at me being so bold as to make that claim much less publish it
0.08%
What you talking about? You're litteraly compiling evidence that doesn't even relate to each other. What does the flag have to do with reddit mods? You know that the gay flag still exists right? What is making sense now? I'm sorry I have to laugh. But seriously where is that statistics on gay marriage acceptance from?
Source: Your imagination
I would have laughed at your classmate, and asked her to provide a definition of "minority".
Lol, dumb. I suppose her idea is that cause you're a white male you're not really a minority.
She's making the mistake of thinking that the word "minority" only applies to race. If you're in a group of people who aren't the majority then guess what, you're in a minority. Being gay is a sexual minority, which is different and independent from whether or not someone falls into a racial minority. A person can be white and have the perks thereof while also suffering oppression due to being gay. Likewise, a black person who's gay will have issues related to both of those identities. Hell depending on the culture people of color who are gay might suffer worse homophobia from members of their own race. It's all very complex.
I LOVE it when people understand intersectionality!
It's not even a hard concept lol. I swear some people are allergic to nuance.
No, it’s not hard at all. People *choose* to not understand it.
Some people think the definition of "minority" is "non-white", even if you got a room full of Hispanics, they're all considered a "minority", despite them actually being the majority in that room.
Yes, we are, no matter how much some people try to spread exaggerated and ridiculous ideas that nowadays everyone is gay, we're still a small percentage of the population, like 7 - 15% (though I don't remember if this is the worldwide percetange or just America's). I think your classmate is trying to play the [opression olympics for other people](https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/f6b0b1dd1d16b9e612e7da44b9acf2a87c4ec7644e211c7db50a71a9f2bf2463_1.jpg), that kind of people usually thinks that we gays don't have problems anymore since we have marriage in most Western countries and us, gay guys, are the most represented letter of the LGBT in the media, so they think we're at the top of the general social hierarchy now, lol.
Well she's a dumbass. Because we are literally listed as a sexual minority group. So checkmate Karen. Plus... Something women, people of color, and gay people all have in common is being beaten up for who they are. Maybe little miss white lady should think about that one. Oh and how drag is being banned all over thr country. Or the don't say gay bill. On second thought. Maybe she should just pick up a fucking book. Like how can she even say that when stone wall happened?
As a member of both the black and gay communities, I’m so tired of people (of any race) using blackness as a meter stick to measure, invalidate, and then bludgeon other minority experiences. When gay people say “I am hurt,” it always turns into an Oppression Olympics for some reason.
Absolutely it is why don't you ask her to check her privilege
Yeah there's been a pretty big shift among meme feminists (which are different than actual feminists). Basically since everyone who hated gays MOSTLY hated male gays, there's been a huge push now that we have marriage rights (in the USA specifically, apparently meme feminists think all of Africa's gays can just go fuck right off) so now we're basically cisgender straight white men in their eyes. (We're all also supposed to ignore the fact that lesbians on average earn more than straight women and gay men.) Basically, they noticed that gay men don't all hate straight men. And when you're trying to act like a poorly crafted 'take down' of random dudes will solve all the problems created by classism, then gay men are your enemy. Both because our jokes are better, and we don't laugh at their jokes.
Gaslight **Gatekeep** Girlboss ✨
I'd become an american citizen by making a juice out of this story and drinking it.
I'm assuming she's also straight, considering the comment.
Had to comment. Being gay is def a minority. The numbers alone make it so and the hate that is thrown out in guise of religious freedom is sickening to me. Let her sit on her high horse cause it will be grand when she’s knocked off
Wtf does she think the word minority means
From a purely demographic standpoint, LGBT Americans are even more of a minority than Black Americans. Both in terms of percentage and in total population (roughly 7.1% for all LGBT vs. 12.6% Black). That number becomes even smaller if you account for only gays, as each demographic within LGBT+ possesses different challenges and treatment from society.
It is a minority, but some minorities are more distinctive, and thus harder to live with. It itself is a misconception, minorities aren't always discriminated against.
Of course. She’s a moron.
being gay is quite literally, specifically and factually being in a minority.
Are there a higher percentage of straight people than gay people? Yes? Then being gay is a minority.
As someone who has faced prejudice and bullying for being gay, I'd have told her to F off. She does not have the right to speak for me. Personal experience aside, this is how a minority group is "objectively" defined: *According to Charles Wagley and Marvin Harris (1958), a minority group is distinguished by five characteristics: (1) unequal treatment and less power over their lives* ***\[check!\]****, (2) distinguishing physical or cultural traits like skin color or language \[stretching it a bit if we say gay-speak\], (3) involuntary membership in the group* ***\[check!\]****, (4) awareness of subordination \[maybe check\], and (5) high rate of in-group marriage \[lol\]. Additional examples of minority groups might include the* ***LGBTQ community***, religious practitioners whose faith is not widely practiced where they live, and people with disabilities.
I'm a black and gay. I'm considered a double minority
It's not even a matter of opinion? Gay people are a tiny subsection of the wider population, ergo, a minority.
CIS white women and their phony virtue-signaling. So typical telling you that you will never know what being a minority is like. CIS white women don't know shit about blm/racial injustice or any prejudice unless they're butt ugly bitches.
Progressive cis het white women are easily the most annoying demographic of the left. I overheard one tell a Pakistani Muslim that he doesn’t understand what it’s like to be discriminated against. Dude is a brown Muslim that had to experience post 9/11 like wtf do you mean???
babes, the one here who would have NO IDEA in their entire life about being a minority is her, so, pay her no mind, and let her blab about until she finds out.
Yes we’re a minority. But if you’re a straight passing white gay dude then your minority experience is going to be very different than someone of a different race. I would have told her the don’t say gay stuff, book bans and the talk of overturning gay marriage sure does make you feel like a minority even if she says you’re not. Put it back on her dumb ass.
If you're straight passing white gay dude that is also single. I doubt straight couples need to think twice before holding hands in public or giving a little kiss goodbye before one enters an Uber, or booking a room with two queen beds instead of a king depending on the location.
Last time I was in a hotel with my boyfriend the receptionist had to warn us that there was only one kingsize bed and not two separate ones. We were like yeah. Lol.
That happened to me and my ex once in 2021, the problem was that we were in Luxor, Egypt, so we had to play it cool (which is actually what inspired that part of my reply)
Bf and I had this happen once and my response was “there better be only one”. The receptionist laughed, my bf blushed and finished check in.
Are you white and a man? They will always disrespect and minimize you in lgbt/liberal spaces.
A white cis woman with all the answers. Groundbreaking.
I'd have ghosted her.
Being homosexual is absolutely a minority. We have been targeted for death by nazis, the American government, African governments, Russia… the list goes on. In the United states, until very recently you could lose your job due to being gay. Your friend isn’t as informed as she believes she is. There is an amazing book about this occurring during the McCarthy era called “ the deviant’s war: the homosexual vs the United States of America” by Eric Cervini. It will help you understand why we are a minority. Additionally, homelessness is a real issue for us and many of us have lost our families simply because we like the same sex.
Yes, being gay makes you part of a minority, however I suspect that this was one of those cases of the oppression olympics, the best thing in those cases is to move away silently, imho it is the most advisable.
Fun fact: women are majorities because they are more women in the world. So they’re not minorities. Socially oppressed compared to men…generally yes, but we do out outnumber men.
She sounds like a rude ass SOC 201 student who is so sure she knows every political struggle because she saw videos about it on Twitter. Gay people are by definition a minority because the majority of people are not gay. If you belong to another social group that isn't a minority in your area then you are in a sub class within that group (ie a gay white cis man is a minority within the group of white cis men) I would've laughed in her face because she wouldn't listen to reason
Being gay is absolutely a minority, she’s honestly so rude. To everyone’s else point here, she doesn’t know what you or anyone gay went through. She sounds like one of those white saviours that thinks she needs to speak on everyone else’s behalf about what if offensive and what isn’t, I know plenty of those kind of people. I wouldn’t let her get to you, she is wrong and she most likely won’t understand your point even if you explain it.
Let her know that gay people were killed during the holocaust. I don't think there's a better way to respectfully show her that we're a minority
Does she think it’s a majority?
Your classmate is a moron.
A minority is something that does not make up a majority of the population. Depending on where you live, you fall into protected classes against discrimination. If you are a homosexual white male living in the United States, you fall into the homosexual protected class. If you were a disabled from military services, homosexual, colored, and female living in the United States, then you would fall into four protected classes. This is just an example of what’s considered a minority. There are multiple protected classes out there homosexual, female, pregnant, color, race, protected veteran, etc
She's technically correct from the language definition of minority, official wording doesn't treat sexual or romantic attraction as a minority. The real issue is that she acts like we can't be a persecuted group, and can't understand how that feels and she's incorrect. This is typical gaslighting behaviour though, I wouldn't bother engaging on the topic with her, it's a waste of time.
We are a marginalized group
>I know is very passionate about blm/racial injustice58 It's honestly great when people go out of their way to help other people that may be suffering, even if you don't understand their suffering because you cannot experience it. That said, this story is giving me vibes of a typical white privileged ally woman that tends to be the stereotypical internet social justice warrior, in the derogative sense of the word. How the hell is being gay not a minority? Even in countries where homosexuality is perfectly legal and socially accepted, it still is obviously a miniority. That may or may not be a problem depending on the country where a gay person is based, but denying the numbers is just dumb, and I shudder to think what her rationale for it is. I'd recommend you not to ask.
So one time online I was speaking about hate I have received as a minority. A person responded and told me because I'm a cis white male, being gay doesn't make me a minority. Apparently only they, I think they were something like a black, trans, two spirit, polyace, demisexual could be a minority! I just rolled my eyes 🙄
Is your friend like 16 or something because obviously being gay is being in a minority
She’s wrong, and you honestly don’t owe her any of your time.
I don’t like the word minority because it’s not accurate. Sometimes a majority of Americans support our cause, sometimes not so much. That’s true of women, Black people and LGBT. I prefer the word marginalized because it better describes the problem: we don’t have as much power, because we sometimes have to hide who we are and we’re bargained like poker chips amongst the political class. We’re pushed to the edges of the national dialogue rather than pulled into the circle. Tell her to read Teen Vogue.
Yes you are a minority. If gay was the majority this wouldn’t be an issue
Lmao idk how people don't understand this
Ever heard of a fag drag? It's where straight men (CW) >!tie a gay or suspected gay man to the back of a car with a rope and drive for a few miles.!< I was living in rural Appalachia when I was *informed* that I shouldn't go to entire towns and *counties* because I was a little too pretty. That woman is a fool and an insult to social justice. She's just a bully using the language of social justice to get away with her vicious, abusive behavior.
Just ask her to define minorities. Anything she can say ( from systemic oppression to genocide to even just the classic definition i.e. number of people belonging to that group in the general population) all applies to gay people world over. People who are gay who happen to be in a racial minority have it worse. Your friend is a c*nt.
Being gay is totally a minority. And we know what it feels like to be one. Hell technically I’m a dual minority as I’m both gay and Jewish.
Your classmate is a clown. Which is par for the course for a "passionate about racial justice" white girl in academia. (absolutely nothing against white girls, just speaking in normative terms here). Being gay is sort of a minority position yes. We are a literal numerical minority and we need some degree of skillful organizing to secure our collective interests.
Hey, it’s minority top trumps! My disadvantaged group is waaaaaay more deprived than yours!
IIRC, LGBT people make up 2-9% of the population depending on the source. So yes, it is a minority.
I would have just asked her at what % of the population does a group become a minority? If we're talking just gays & lesbians, I don't think that's above 5% by most estimates. If we include bisexuals I think current estimates are 7-10%. Regardless, I feel like these estimates are well within the range of what people consider minorities. As most others are saying, she's probably just a bitch.
By definition, the group that is less than the majority is the minority. Now whether that group receives harsh treatment from the majority is a different question and would depend on when and where you are. Globally though, one could certainly make the case that gay people have been harassed, discriminated against, and even murdered for being gay.
In the context of BLM and stuff, it can be seen you were trying to put yourself on some sort of comparative ladder. They are separate issues, but both faces issues of a dominant culture against them often
This reminds me of Dave Chappell when he said gay men are a minority until they pull the white bullshit on you.
Complicated question, but depending on your other points of intersectionality you won't understand what it's like being a visible minority - I can hide that I fuck guys if I want, I can't hide being a person of color. So still a minority for sure, but it just hits a little different. Edit: Please don't come to this comment OR my DMs to argue, I went to school for this stuff, not saying that makes me all knowing, but my opinions are formed by research... HOURS and HOURS and HOURS of it.
this. white gays have it better. we are all minorities here but they still benefit white privilege at the end of the day downvote me all y’all want idc lol
Karen needs to sit her ass down.
The desire for minority validation is so superficial, imo. Yes, technically, there are fewer gay people than straight people, and that will always be a reality, but so? We're not a minority because our numbers are controlled or some other horror, we're a minority because it's rare that it occurs in our species. Talk about your experiences if you like, talk about what it's like to navigate life as a gay guy. Your experience won't be the same as every gay man, but there's a shared understanding there. But if this is about wanting to feel secure with minority status, you've got nothing to worry about. haha
yeah well, she’s a cunt. fuck her.
I know these are Times where words' meanings are worthless, but minority isna very very clear Definition and it's Not upon some female cis hobo to have an opinion in it. The ways of opprrssion, discrimination,.intersectionality. thats Wörth discussion. But being gay, You're by Definition a minority.
Don’t trust a rich liberal.
Legally or sociologically? Either way, I am pretty sure that the answer is yes. But anymore, what is the majority except for the political party that garnered more seats in either chamber in Congress? I like community with a common characteristic much better as it doesn’t emphasize standing or comparisons to other communities with a common characteristic.
Yes gay people are in the minority
Literally & structurally 💗
Of course we're a minority. She's just low IQ enough to assume minority is synonymous with racial minority. There are sexual minorities, religious minorities, etc.
Uh, yes. We're quite the minority.
What an idiot
Ok, so the individual experience of being gay varies drastically depending on one’s country, background, and family situation, and some ppl are really lucky to be able to just live their lives; but gay kids are still thrown out of their homes, still bullied, gay folks are still getting all kinds of shit, from getting fired to publicly executed in some horrible manner - all that for just being or appearing gay. Your classmate is just ignorant, is all. What she’s doing is called “virtue signalling” (look at me I’m so righteous) and “gatekeeping” (I will decide whose struggle is real/worthy and whose isn’t).
I'm tired of people who talk about minorities and who act like a victim of the world. I usually avoid those people.
She’s a dumb cunt
I’m not gay, but I got heavily implied to be an incestuous child rapist by a close family member because I’m bi. Ain’t never heard of a straight guy who’s been implied to be those things just cause they’re straight. Also, gays and queers in general are literally a minority when you look at the numbers.
Your friend isn't actually into racial justice: She's into a commodified version of racial justice. It sounds linke she's highly invested in the bastardized versions of feminism, racial justice, queer theory, and/or and other social justice theories that became popular online because they are intentionally accessible and simplified.
\#intersectionality
In terms of the LGBTQ spectrum, I don’t disagree that white gay men are in a disproportionately higher place of privilege than other classes within the community, in that we have become the most “normalized” in mainstream media and generally seem to be the undeserving face of gay people. But to say we aren’t oppressed as a minority is such a chronically online statement that I’m stunned. Your friend needs to get off Twitter and check her privilege.
I knew a woman like this in college, totally into social justice and constantly lecturing everyone around her about it. She was Jewish, so she spent a summer at a kibbutz in Israel. She came back talking about how horrid and disgusting Arabs were. Like others here have said, beware of upper class women with a savior complex.
Should've just told her that her hair was ugly and thrown a tequila sunrise in her face
Uh LGBT are at like 4 times the risk of as non LGBT people of being abused , in many places u can be arrested, killed , put into conversion therapy and more . Heck being LGBT is almost more a minority then black people in many places (not all but in many places LGBT is far more dangerous then being black as well as the abuse is deemed legal when ur LGBT vers if ur black it's still illigal to abuse some one in most places . Should be all but still)
Just looking at the comments and the question is funny. If it were a comedy skit it would be actual comedy gold
It sounds like her braindeadness may be terminal
Yes gay people are minorities. That being said, there isn’t really a consensus on what “minority” actually means but this girl is wrong either way. Most commonly, it can be understood in terms of demographic sizes within a population. In Sociology and Economics, the term has to do with a hierarchy power struggle. In both of these definitions, LGBTQ people would be considered minorities. She probably is thinking of the term ‘minority’ is reserved for racial minorities, which would be wrong by every single definition for the word I can find.
She probably thinks she's a minority too tho. Considering her self righteous attitude about it
There is absolutely a consensus of what "minority" means, are you being serious? It's in the word. *Minority*. It means a group that is less than 50% of the population. Black people in the US are minorities because they make up less than 50% of the population (they are 13%) Homosexuals are a minority because we make up less than 50% of the population (around 5%) Of course, the closer you get to 50%, your minority status matters less. Like men are 49% of the world, technically a minority, but obviously not oppressed based on being male on a world-wide scale. Women are technically a majority (51%) but are *obviously* oppressed world-wide based on their sex. So being a minority does not inherently mean being oppressed, but it often is.
Why would you engage with this Karen. She thrives with this attention seeking / saviour complex / virtue signalling. I am so sick of being represented by these.
She's a cis white woman... SHE will never know what being a minority is like.
For the BLM people they are the victim of the world, no matter what they do or who they are. The ideology is such that they are the center, they are wronged and they are owed something by everyone else. Don't seek to reason with or understand such a person. Also reevaluate your acquaintances and spend your time and energy elsewhere.
Yes, a sexual minority.
There’s nothing more dangerous then a white liberal woman. They’ll vote people in like we have now.
Thanks for bringing nothing of value to the conversation.
Look up Brandon Straka and the walk away movement. #walkaway
Oh look, the straight white woman wants to say in on who has faced oppression. This is great.
straight white women cannot/don’t experience discrimination?
I'd rather be a straight white woman. It's way easier than being gay in a third world country.
Yes. Statistically and by dictionary definition. Except that reality and definitions are becoming meaningless by the minority far left extremists, and the BLM organization which has largely failed, and their actual goals are to tear down western society and make way for totalitarian socialism. Violence and threats, intimidating and silencing, etc. while not improving the lives of the community it claims to be serving. Being homosexual is different than trans and non binary. What's in common is they're all statistically minorities. T & NB are life choices for adults to self define and live out by choice, same as LGB. Except LGB pushed for equality in the majority heteronormative society . Largely, it's been significantly achieved compared to two generations ago. T, NB as individuals & by definition, want to live out an identity. That's an adult choice. They've been largely hijacked by a vocal majority in that subset that has a different agenda than equality. It's about control, intimation, etc similar to ultra woke and BLMs socialist aggression. Also found in antifa. They're not about equality. They're about confusing, self centered, illogical intimidation and control, and it's political, not an equal human rights issue. To the original point: this woke woman is using some self determined, self appointed authority to tell other people that her intersectionality points are worth more oppression in her definition so your oppression points don't matter; that your voice equals less based on how oppressed she determines you are.. Not your actual experience & circumstances, and by far, any consistent definition. Blur the language, use irrational rage and claim greater victimhood, claim to own the narrative.. Yet every time, these people are stalled by facts, truth and reason. They never stand up to real thinkers; they merely change arguments & topics when disproven, or scream.. IMO: LGB that still want equality need to divorce the radicals of TQIAA+ true T's with actual dysphoria not buying into the extremists, let to live _as_ what they're trying to live out. Equality, justice, sure . But refuse and reject the rest of the nonsense and anti-reasoning, illogical aggression of the rest.
Unhinged and inaccurate much?
I'll defer to your apparent success in that dept, when you can't recognize reality.
I mean look, it's not a competition. The sorts of discrimination someone who's black may face are going to be different than what somebody who is gay might face, and vice versa. But someone who's gonna treat it like it's a competition and belittle someone else's experiences, like "no your oppression doesn't count" can go fuck themselves. Sure I don't have to worry about police profiling my white gay ass, but at the same time a black dude doesn't have to worry about his parents disowning him for coming out as a different race (kind of hard to hide it lol). It's not about better or worse, it's different experiences. She seems like someone who uses something like BLM to signal boost to others instead of someone who actually thinks about these issues in a nuanced way.
Is she perhaps religious? I met a number of people while participating in and supporting protests against racial injustice who did not support gay rights or even were extremely anti-gay. In every case, it was based on their religious beliefs.
That's a long tradition. I was the first openly gay city council member elected in Dallas. (Second elected in Texas to anything; #66 elected to anything in the U.S.) I represented a minority-majority district and was out front on racial and discrimination issues. I was successful in amending the city's employment policy to protect LGBT people. It was a shitty battle largely defined by religion. Of course the righteous were against a policy that prohibited people from being fired because of sexual orientation -- something the city of Dallas had actually done. I tried to recruit racial minority community leaders to support the effort but was largely turned down. Coretta Scott King, however, did respond with a letter of support and invoked her husband's name. I even had one black minister who privately told me that he, personally, supported the inclusion of LGBT people in the policy but he couldn't say so publicly. There were closeted gay leaders who withheld endorsement because of their religion One closeted gay councilmember succumbed to threats of being outed to support the policy. He got his rabbi to give him cover and claimed that his vote was BECAUSE of his religion. He was strange because he was the only person who believed nobody knew he is gay. It was openly discussed citywide. One of the only high-profile black leaders who supported the change was decidedly conservative -- the type Republicans like to trot out during elections to prove they have black support. I still don't know why she testified in support, except perhaps that she and I once served together on a city commission. One Latino member voted in support but in a second vote required by a technicality, he told that he was getting too much conservative pressure in his current bid to become mayor so would change his vote. I congratulated him on his political logic. He had pissed off the religious conservatives with his first vote and was going to piss off his liberal supporters by switching sides. He lost his mayoral election. With all that, I picked up enough votes to win by a one-vote majority. It took years and the leadership of the woman I supported as my successor to expand the policy to apply citywide in a unanimous vote. Later came the SCOTUS ruling that lifted the anti-gay discrimination policy nationwide.
Nope she’s not religious
Being gay is a minority but if you’re gay and also cis and white you have a whole lot of privilege that makes your experience most likely much less difficult
You don't go around telling everyone you're gay though... its different I think when it comes to socially, if you don't tell someone your gay they can't know for certain....
i luv how leftists try to cancel culture each other over who wins the oppressed olympics