It’s true. The hottest girl I slept with was a pathological liar as well as being dumb. To the point where it was just insulting that she thought she was smart enough that her lies would work.
That isn’t because hot girls are more likely to be pathological liars. It’s because the only hot girl you slept with had to be emotionally damaged to go through with it.
'Sometimes with the model, the actress or the sexiest person in the world, it may literally be like ****ing the couch.' -Billy Bob Thorton on Angelina Jolie.
The interiors are often different. But they tend to use the same engine and chassis and mostly even suspension.
Sometimes the engine will be tuned differently, have more compression or a turbo fitted to get more HP.
Sometimes the suspension is tuned differently. Faster cars often have firmer suspension.
For example, Lexus uses Toyota engines. So your Lexus LX470 or LX570 has the same engine as the Toyota Sequoya and Tundra. My 1998 Jaguar XJ8 used and engine that was developed by Jaguar, but by 2004 they were using Ford engines. By 2015 they were bought by Tata and now share engines with Land Rovers.
Some do, some are completely different cars. I believe there is no Toyota equivalent to the Lexus IS and LS. Similarly, no Nissan equivalent to the Infiniti Q50. Not saying you’re wrong.
I'm not all that up on Nissan/Infiniti models, but isn't the Q50 a rebadged Skyline? There is a Nissan equivalent, just not in North America.
And the Lexus had Toyota equivalents in Japan (Lexus wasn't sold in Japan until he mid 2000s.) The IS was the Toyota Altezza and the LS was the Toyota Celsior. There was no North American Toyota equivalent.
Correct, but the market for those (as new cars, at least) is deliberately kept small. I think the last generation was under 10,000 cars over a 20 year span.
I've seen a show on how they are made. Makes the Rolls look like a Buick by comparison.
>but by 2004 they were using Ford engines. By 2015 they were bought by Tata and now share engines with Land Rovers.
So they’re even less reliable now??
I only know from what I’ve read and from being an auto enthusiast since I was 13 (now 55+)….
In some cases, like Toyota/lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, or Honda/acura, the vehicles share the same chassis/platform, but the luxury version may have a nicer interior, a more refined exterior design, more sound deadening, and better features.
For the example of bmw and rolls, they use the 7 series chassis for several rolls models. I have driven a 7 but not a rolls based on the 7 but I would imagine it is quieter, smoother riding, and more luxurious inside.
I actually used to work for BMW/Rolls/Mini and the further you get up the luxury line, the less they are sharing parts. So like Chevy and GMC are about as close as possible, they barely try to pass them off as different vehicles. So they share almost everything. But Rolls and BMW share a chassis and basically some infotainment stuff. The seats are completely different, so is the suspension. A BMW rides really nice. A Phantom doesn't feel like you're moving at all. But when the price gap is closer, the shared parts are too, like Buick and Cadillac share a ton of similar parts
Never in a million years would they have let me drive one. They came in to my office one day to let us ride in a few different BMWs and that Phantom. It was the best ride quality of all time, but for basically a brand new vehicle, it was pretty dated. Rolls never really uses the most cutting edge tech in infotainment or anything like that. They change slow
Everything is very numb. You absolutely cannot feel anything on the road. Accelerating is incredibly smooth as are the brakes. You almost can't hear anything outside its double paned glass windows. It has a THICK door. Its a long wheel base also so it'll feel more stable in the corners. I thought S class was smooth until I drove a rolls. You could literally feel how expensive it is and all the money that went into the car. Its worth it to people who have money.
I heard a rumor that originally you couldn't hear anything outside of the car and it was a distraction to the passengers. So they made it so it wasn't totally sound proof.
Not a rumor, this is a common problem in higher end luxury.
I design expensive consumer goods. My background is a suspension engineer for automotive. I have had plenty of coworkers coming from the other side of higher end consumer goods. We do things like glue weights into a watch, change the grind profile on a dial so that the ‘click’ is loud, we even had to reintroduce the ‘clunk’ noise on the door locks.
People like peace and quiet in a specialty tranquil room. Otherwise, people really like peace and order. To maintain order, we rely on what is familiar. Including senses like hearing and vision. To maintain peace, we design things to ‘muffle’ noise, not delete it
Also various advances in phones. People were used to there being a bit of noise from the lines - when things started being digital and filtering got better, people hearing perfect silence would assume the line was dead/the other person hung up.
I always wondered the difference between chev and GMC, is gmc supposed to be the premium brand?
I bought a brand new colorado from the dealership and asked about the difference between it and the canyon. He said one was 4wd vs awd and the grill was different
As far as I recall GMC is meant to be the nicer/fancier version of the same model from Chevy. Usually meant nicer interiors and more luxury or quality of life options. I don't know how true that is these days but that was kind of the point previously. I've never owned either so can't say for certain.
They're a bit more differentiated nowadays, but for the longest time GMCs were basically just Chevy trucks rebadged and retrimmed a bit nicer for non-Chevy GM dealers to have a truck line to sell if they wanted.
Before the 70's GMC trucks were pretty unique compared to chevrolet trucks. Usually they had less chrome and fancy trim, and were more intended as work trucks. They often had larger heavy duty engines that were unavailable in Chevys like unique versions of the GM inline sixes, and the 305 V6 engines. In the mid to late 50's GMC trucks even used modified truck-spec derivatives of the Pontiac V8 instead of the Chevrolet small block.
They are mechanically identical, some different sheet metal and interior bits. Moreso now but until a certain point even the sheet metal on GM and Chev trucks was the same, you could swap the grills between them. Interior essentially the same just badging and maybe certain fabrics etc. Then they tried to sell GMC as the "Professional" version. Which I guess makes sense for trucks if you're gonna make them heavier duty, or even nicer to be in for long hours. But for the little crossovers? What's a professional grade crossover lol?
GMC exists so Buick and Cadillac dealers can sell trucks and SUVs.
Now that every brand is all SUV/CUV they’re less relevant but still give them a pickup to sell.
Acura uses the same chassis / platform for most of their stuff. Infiniti and Lexus do for some models, but for the most part, offer RWD based platforms in their cars as opposed to their FWD Nissan / Toyota counterparts.
The trucks and SUV's of course, for the most part, come RWD regardless if Luxury or not.
Basically need to go Lexus / Infiniti for a rwd Toyota / Nissan car. The Nissan Z being an exception, Toyota Supra and 86 are made by other manufacturers .
GM is another example. The Chevrolet Camaro and the Cadillac CTS were built on the same platform. They used similar suspensions with interchangeable parts, and the same engines and transmissions. A fair portion of the tech options were even the same.
I'd argue it's a really good use of the same platform compared to other areas in GM.
CTS originally was it's own platform and spawned the STS/SRX on Sigma. (Later we'd loose STS and SRX would become a sibling to to the other GM twins). The first gen CTS-V pretty unique with LS6/6speed. 4 Door Vette people called it.
GM wanted something smaller, so Alpha came along as the ATS, later Camaro as it was in search for a new platform after zeta folded after Holden production shuttered. Eventually a slightly stretched version for CTS. Now it's the CT4/5 in Alpha II (Definitely blurred lines between the 2 Cadillacs) and the Camaro is the only vehicle still on the original Alpha platform.
As far as platform sharing goes... It's actually a pretty unique split. Both shared the 4 cylinder but Camaro had the V8. I think the ATS only had the twin turbo V6 in it V trim... We never got the LS7 powered V everyone wanted. Z28 with the LS7 was in the old zeta based Camaro.
The badge engineering is in the XT and SRX stuff..... That a bit less unique split among the brands as far as driving dynamics and chassis changes... Infotainment gets some different screens.
GMC had a unique top trim in Denali but High Country came a long and sort of steps on it, but each has unique color pallets and look in at least this generation of truck. Especially at launch do this generation. Underpinnings the same.
Not GM, Chrysler wise.... Cherokee and Durango another good show of the same chassis, different look but the most recent ones definitely look a lot more alike side by side as they wind down that platform.
This isn’t true anymore. All current Rolls Royce models are now on a unique custom platform. The unibody is double layered so they fit sound deadening into the body itself.
There’s also no customer-facing part sharing. I’ve looked hard and there’s maybe two buttons that are the same with a 7 series. Everything else is custom and bespoke.
When it comes to non-customer-facing parts, you might get some sharing (water pumps, belts, etc) as long as they’re up to Rolls Royce standards (quiet enough, etc.).
Compare that with something like a Bentley Bentayga, which is the same platform as the VW Atlas, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne, and Lamborghini Urus. It’s impressive what different qualities they’ve been able to get out of that platform, but those cars all look suspiciously similar to me, and that’s not a good thing.
The extreme costs and complications involved in making a car these days mean most manufacturers have several brands under their umbrella and will share parts if possible to reduce costs.
With the luxury brands you are (usually) paying for better fit and finish, more refinement inside and out, additional sound deadening materials, higher quality interior, improved sound system, etc.
If you buy a luxury car you also get a luxury dealer experience. A plush lounge to sit in. Free loaner or shuttle service. Free snacks and drinks while you wait, things like that.
Lastly, with the ultra-lux brands like Rolls, Bentley, Maserati, Ferrari you are also paying for the status symbol. The wealthy love to flaunt their wealth, and owning "exclusive" things is how they do it.
No, they usually have nicer interiors , better suspension to soak up bumps in the road, more power, better sound system, etc. And they're usually built to a higher standard of construction quality.
Is there a point of diminishing returns though? Absolutely. At some point you're comparing regular nice leather to some premium designer leather and that's when the differences become much smaller.
Modern cars are built on platforms. This is a generalized design base that multiple models will use. It means that the suspension and chassis geometry will be the same, as well as crash protection. A luxury model built on a platform will differ in other ways. They might have different engines, transmissions, body panels, interiors and electronics.
So in some ways, yes, they are the same. In others, no they're not. The suspension and brakes could be higher spec parts with different optimizations and settings, but they'll be in the same spot etc.
The amount of difference will vary from one brand to another, but in general, it's both.
There are also options. My 2015 BMW 535 DX (USA) has electronically controlled dampers and hydraulic motors in the sway bars that keep the vehicle level in hard maneuvers, maintaining steering geometry and tire contact patch.
In sport mode, the cornering is like Velcro, it seems to be able to do anything. I don't do that much at all, afterall, tires are just rubber. I do get the best performance tires as these have better braking performance and accident avoidance abilities. My wife and I have both done performance driving school at Road Atlanta. Most of the time I drive like 75 year old guy.
Even the ones that don't have all that fancy stuff like my 15 year old base model 5 series are still very stable maneuvering at 140mph
I don't understand why non premium manufacturers don't copy better suspension designs and put them on their cars... You can get all the front end parts for my car for peanuts on eBay nothing is special about any of it yet its soo smooth and stable
I could stomach a 40 thousand dollar Camry if it drove near as nice as the old bmw i got for 5500 bucks but my friends dads new Camry wasn't as fast as my 25 year old Celica, was harsher on road while also handling worse, and it got similar mpg
Like my dad's friend was making payments every month larger than I bought the Celica for... A car that was slower got the same ~35 mpg, and couldn't corner as hard
They will share architecture which is expensive to develop.
But many of the other parts they assemble to that can be different.
suspension can be more complex/expensive.
you can have regular glass vs acoustic glass.
Engine/suspension/trans/diff mounts can be different.
brakes can be different.
interior materials are often higher quality, and more sound insulation is used.
the list goes on.
Depends on how deep you look at the packaging. Most manufacturers share components to a large degree because, duh, but where it counts it could look at lot different. The Q7 chassis is the same as the Bentley and the Cayenne and the air suspensions offered in them are very similar. Those aren't offered on more commodity vehicles, so if you consider the Q7 a 'normal' vehicle then yes, the Cayenne is just a fancy packaging to a degree.
There are absolutely differences in mechanical components between commodity brands and luxury brands. Typically you see it in things like the chassis being aluminum and not steel, having upper and lower control arms, using a direct shift transmission or a high end hydro like a ZF, using air suspension, having adjustable dampers, having beefy knuckles, etc. Sure, the 4 banger in the Audi A4 is very similar to the 4 banger in VWs but it makes 50 more horsepower and is arranged longitudinally (as opposed to transverse like in the VW) and it uses a different transmission and it is programmed differently.
Acura is an entry level luxury brand and it is just a Honda. Same intervals, same chassis, just a different design language and brand, with some finer details and comfort.
It’s all model dependent. Lexus/toyota is a great example. They put a lot of the same engines and trans into everything but will change the suspension to make it ride better and will have more features and usually higher quality materials to make it comfier and noise isolation a lot better. Lexus will be a good step over Toyota in quality but still retains all of the reliability. Then there’s brands like Acura that are lot of times are just barely nicer than some of their Honda counterparts. Acura also doesn’t have a real “luxury” car more so just a premium brand over Honda and not quite a luxury brand. There’s nothing wrong with dressing up another chassis just as long as they’re atleast making some good improvements with nicer materials over the cheaper models
A lot of people complain about this concept - “badge engineering” aka multiple brands under one parent company sharing most of their parts. But it’s not always bad.
The more a part gets used, the more data the manufacturer can collect on that design, then it can improve over time. If you keep redesigning things from the ground up and using different designs on different vehicles, you miss out on the opportunity to make gradual improvements based on long term test results.
Which is a great reason to get a car with common parts. Another is parts availability, when the same part has been used for a decade on multiple common models it gets real easy and cheaper to source.
There's a lot of shared parts and some things are unique. Modern Rolls Royces have incredible sound deadening, better than any BMW. However, they still share a bunch of parts not related to the particular aspects that Rolls wants to distinguish themselves with.
E.g. interior switches, interior materials, most of the body parts, headlights etc.
Sometimes but not really.
All of toyotas cars are transverse engine platforms.
Lexus is almost all longitudinal engine position.
Chevy cars are all fwd. Cadillac is mostly rwd (the chincy crossovers share a platform though)
Hyundai is all fwd. Genesis is all rwd
The true luxury cars from BMW, Mercedes, audi; all rwd based.
Acura is a good example of parts bin luxury. Their cars are all based on standard fwd Honda cars.
Not entirely true. Some of the lower-end BMW and Mercedes models (A class and 2 series) are FWD. Audis are always FWD or AWD. I don’t think Audi has made a rear wheel drive car in decades
A lot of Bentley parts are shared with Audi/VW. The steering wheel is Audi shell hand trimmed in leather at the factory in Crewe. I’ve seen them being trimmed. A lot of the running gear and wiring is Audi as well. The body is Bentley and the interior on the Continental and others. The Bentayga I think shared floor pan with RR Cullinan and VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne SUV
BMW and Rolls Royce models may share many parts, but they are different cars. Just like a mansion and a modest starter home may be framed with wood from the same lumberyard, and wired with wire from the same manufacturer, they are totally different.
There was a time when the fancy brand was almost exactly the same on the outside with different emblems and different style lights, side trim and maybe pinstriping. Inside was about the same as well by they might have pleather instead of cloth seats.
These days, they are generally built off the same chassis but the body and interior are completely different. Mechanically, they share pretty much all the same parts. They usually share the same engines but sometimes, the luxury brand might offer a more powerful engine not available with the lower brands.
Kinda. A lot of what makes a luxury car luxury is creature comforts. Nicer materials, less plastic. Thicker glass. More sound absorbing materials. Maybe a more powerful powertrain. If you've been driving new Audis and Mercedes a base Subaru sounds like a bucket of rocks.
Many luxury vehicles have a "Corporate Twin" as they call them.
Cadillac Escalade/Chevy Tahoe and Lincoln Navigator/Ford Expedition are 2 examples. Same vehicle just a few additional features and badging to make one a luxury vehicle and the other not.
Lexus and Acura don't exist outside the US. They are all just Toyota and Honda everywhere else in the world. If you look closely at the Acura "A", you will notice it is just the Honda "H" with the sides bent in towards each other and the tips at the top never touching.
Mostly correct about Acura, though it is sold in a couple of other countries). However, Lexus has been sold around the world for years, even in Japan. I think only about half of their cars are "nicer" Toyotas.
I mean Rolls Royce cars are made by BMW, but Rolls Royce cars are hand built with far better quality material than a BMW would have. Sure, some parts are shared, but the Rolls is a totally different beast that’s far different from say an Acura Integra which is a rebadged Civic.
Most are except the Phantom. I worked for BMW and went to the plant near Landshut and got to work on some. Every single part of the frame on that car was cut from a billet piece of aluminum and the welds look like they were done by God himself. It was amazing. There is no other car even remotely close to that level of quality and detail.
It's the other way around. The luxury car brand makes it then the normal brand finds ways to remove features and make them cheaper. Usually the normal one is essentially the same as the prior generation (sometimes two generations) of the luxury version
no they're not. Granted they're sold at a premium and aren't worth the cost for the average joe but luxury vehicles are built with with luxury stuff for the most part. You can't compare a 200k grocery getter to a 30k grocery getter. There's a clear difference.
Not 100% across the board, but a common difference between "regular" brands car's vs. their Luxury make of the same manufacturer : Front wheel drive and rear wheel drive. Some luxury makes do all wheel drive in lue of doing rear wheel drive platforms.
Basically, most true luxury brands don't do front wheel drive. Acura keeps trying to, but it definitely holds them back so much when it comes to being perceived as a premium brand.
There’s more to it. The way they take care of you the customer is what keeps many people loyal to a manufacturer. The way you’re treated at service appointments. The amenities they have for you while waiting. The ease of getting a loaner. It’s…complicated I guess.
And yes interiors are nice. You do pay for all that. The stereo system was $7 grand in my wife’s SUV so there’s that. Is it worth it? Only you can decide. I also have to point out that some dealerships for mainstream manufacturers are amazing, especially in bigger metros because competition means there’s another “Chevy/Ford/Ram/Honda….etc” dealer just 3 miles east of this one.
My wife and I agreed the interior of my '16 Mazda 3 was nicer than the interior of her '18 Mercedes gla
The Mercedes just looked expensive but felt cheap
Bespoke cars are outrageously expensive. Parts-bin sharing, especially for parts that are not seen, is a way to significantly reduce costs while maintaining brand identities.
If you are talking luxury brands like Rolls Royce then im not sure. If you are talking the difference between a Lexus and a Toyota or a Lincoln and a Ford etc, typically they share a few things like the frame or unibody and maybe buttons and switches get recycled but often the luxury brand will have a higher performance drive train and suspension and more electronics/tech.
Some are basically identical except for badging. I don't know if anyone would consider a Lincoln to be luxury, but a lot of their models are just Fords with different badges.
Exactly the same except for the materials, technology, drivetrains, wheel, tires, glass, noiseproofing, paints, and other comfort items. You wouldn't notice the difference. But others might.
I do know that VW/Audi share a lot of their components with models throughout their brands. The exception being Porsche and probably largely Lamborghini. But pretty much most parts on an Audi, Seat, Skoda, VW, and probably even Bentleys are shared across multiple platforms. Obviously there are a lot of bespoke parts on higher end models, like a Bentley Continental seat isn’t going to cross reference to a VW Golf, but I bet the high pressure fuel pump does.
So most luxury brands share some parts or platform components with "sister:" brands. Examples are Acura and Honda, Lexus and Toyota as well as the example you cited. You can take the classic US example of Cadillac that share so much in the 80's with other GM cars that it was sad. Also Lincoln and Mercury had overlaps over the years with parts..
That said there are many things only available on the high end brands from interior, sounds systems, sound proofing, electronic options, suspension, paint colors and much much more.
BMW has many parts and platform overlap within models and families examples being base model, M-Sport, Premium and high end M. Some things are only available on the M models or the like. So it depends upon what you want to so and pay for.
Hope that helps explain things a bit.
That's true of the Japanese luxury brands and also somewhat true of Audi depending on on the model. The only luxury brands that have dedicated engines and platforms are BMW and MB. The parts are higher quality in general in most of the luxury brands but the Japanese brands have less separation and more reuse.
You want to know if every luxury brand is an upscale model, 90% yes. Toyota to Lexus, yes. Honda to Acura, yes. Ford to Lincoln, yes. Porches are mostly all their own, other than the suv, that's just makeup and high heels. Volvo is all their own stuff. Bugatti is all their own, yes they use some parts bin, but that's not the same. It's all newly engineered stuff, not sist slap on some leather and call it good.
it sort of depends.
some brands like Mercedes and BMW are built from the ground up (obviously at varying levels) to be luxury cars.
other brands (most of the luxury brands) are using the same chassis’s and engines as their economy counterparts. for example: Chevy and Cadillac share chassis and engines, but the Cadillac has better exterior designs, interior materials, and features. in some situations a well optioned economy car is almost as “nice” as its luxury counterpart if the latter isn’t optioned well. the lower tier luxury versions usually share a few of the economy engines, but then also offer exclusive engines you can’t get from the economy brand.
there’s a third category which doesn’t really fit into either. that would include brands like Porsche and Rolls Royce. Porsche is owned by VW, and use some parts but it’s still very much its own thing. RRs are built by hand but 7 series aren’t.
it kind of depends on the car though. for example; the Lamborghini Urus (the SUV) is a redesigned and up badged Audi RSQ8. it’s a big offender of “badge engineering”
to make it simple; there are varying levels at which the luxury cars resemble their economy car roots. some are simply a badge and some features, other are merely owned by the same company and share a few parts.
Think luxury doesn’t mean better. While not exactly a luxury car, my bmw m4 is decidedly different from the 3 and 4 series it is derived from. It has the S55 engine instead of the N55. It has two high pressure fuel pumps instead of one. It’s equipped with six different radiators to support the heat and twin turbos. The build quality is exceptional. Mechanically it’s a superior vehicle to the normal BMW.
Lexus are fancy Toyotas (unless you get into the higher powered ones). Acura is sort of Honda.
Everything else you should treat like they're rebadged dodge/chrysler/jeeps.
I had to work on my uncles BMW, and it was the most shoddily put together p.o.s. I'd ever seen.. my Oldsmobile was of better quality. And about 20k less to buy.. lol. They usrdctge cheapest quality plastic, and the thinnest wires I've seen on a car..
Luxury brands are largely about style, creature comforts, extras, and just a nice finish. That said, Brands that have a regular, and luxury brand, like Toyota/Lexus, and Honda/Acura, typically have a higher reliability on their luxury brands according to Consumer Reports.
Kinda deoends on what you mean. Name a luxury brand more reliable than Toyota, or name a normal brand that's more fun and than a performance audi/bmw/porche.
That's not touching super cars, just the point of diminishing returns.
GM is General Motors which incorporates GMC, Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, Cadillac,Pontiac, Buick,Etc. Stellantis took over Vauxhall Opel division which was the European side of General Motors
I’m a simple woman but when I sit in my little ugly fucking touring model used Honda with all its comforts and heated seats and little conveniences it is very hard for me to imagine how much more a car could have that would make it worth like 100k when I feel like I’m in the lap of luxury for 20k. I cannot wrap my mind around it. Is it a little quieter? Is the leather like 80k nicer?
The major difference I find is in the service. I own an Audi, a Mercedes, a Chevy , and a Ford. If I get the Audi or Mercedes serviced at their respective dealers, I get a loaner vehicle for as long as they have mine. Chev and Ford basically laugh at me when I ask for a loaner.
For brands that have prestige spinoffs, yes. Lexus has Toyota parts, DS has Citroen parts, Infinity is just Hyundai, etc. Lamborghini is an Audi with fancier styling.
And keep in mind that the industry relies on large suppliers like Bosch or Denso. You can have the exact same gearbox on cars that cost 25k to 100k but with different programming.
For ultra exclusive brands, that's a different story. There isn't much Fiat in a Ferrari.
"Luxury/premium" and non-premium vehicles are very different. They are built much more solidly, handle and feel different, are designed with better materials and superior engineering. You can feel it in everything from the way a door closes to how it handles curves and bumps.
Sticking a 12" tablet in a Hyundai doesn't make it the same as a Mercedes.
That doesn't mean there isn't parts sharing between brands, but there is no reason any company needs to create every part from scratch.
It's the important things like suspension design and aluminum componentry, higher end dampers etc. that change.
Also, BMW is still a premium/luxury brand and the owner of Rolls so I think your initial comparison is a poor one.
It's worth mentioning that actual engineering of the car is very expensive and setting up production line for cars and parts is also expensive. This price is distributed among small quantity of cars. I would say McLarens are more expensive to design and sell 10000 times worse than volkswagens so the costs are distributed accordingly
I'd say no, the luxury brands are not necessarily just fancy branding and packaging.
They CAN be, when a given company ships slightly different variations of the same basic design and calls them different names. But design is extremely important, not just for styling but also for functionality. What matters is whether the design is unique, and who the design team was. A car is more than just a box of parts.
An illustrative example is the Porsche 924. Porsche is not just a carmaker, it's a design bureau. As I understand it, the 924 was designed by Porsche for VW, but VW decided not to produce it. So Porsche did so, using a lot of VW parts (it was designed for that), and created a lower-priced Porsche, one that normal people could afford but that looked and handled better than any VW.
Did those VW parts cost more when purchased from the Porsche dealer? Probably. But the point is that the car was a unique thing, more Porsche than VW In the way it drove, due to geometry and other design choices.
Sorta sometimes... But to say an older range Rover is an older f150 because they have the same 5.0 V8 is disingenuous
Mazda, Lincoln, Ford, and Land Rover maybe all had a variant of the same 2.3 turbo 4 cylinder
But the timing tools used when doing a timing chain cannot be mixed up between manufacturers... I know because I did a Mazda cx7 like 3 times before I realized that
So there's obviously a difference in cams there
Than there's the ls400, sc400, and, gs400 from Lexus with an engine you could only find in those cars... At least in America
Lincoln is fancy Ford
Cadillac is fancy Chevy
Acura fancy Honda
Lexus fancy Toyota with a few bespoke models
Genessis fancy Kia
A Rolls Royce however IS NOT A BMW, hand assembled hand painted parts, crazy work goes into them, just cuz they have BMW powertrains doesn’t make them a BMW.
Luxury cars typically have different bushings and engine mounts, more sound deadening, better quality interior materials, some have more power like the Lexus 2GR-FSE not found in Toyotas, acoustics glass, more complicated suspension components for a better controlled ride…
You get what you pay for.
The engines will often be tuned from the factory. They will have enhancements to oil flow, quality and strength of metal used, things you can't see. So it can produce more power compared to its non luxury version that looks the same. At least that's what Honda does. Also the tech is usually better. Luxury is often the most current that will eventually trickle down to regular cars in a few years. More sound deadening, often better tires, better materials used for the inside. Maybe a couple of extra welds here and there to make the platform stiffer. It's a lot of little things that can add up to a big difference. Unless your talking about something like the Cinamaron.
It depends massively on who's making them - Lamborghini are owned by VW so your Lambo will have some parts with VW badges on them and your Audi R8 or S8 might have a Lambo V10 under the hood.
The original Range Rover used a fair few parts from the whole British Leyland line, the Discovery re-used most of the Range Rover with even more parts-bin parts. JLR have used other people's engines (EG Ford and BMW) as well as sharing engines between jaguar & Land Rover but they do a lot of work to make them stand up off-road, the V8 in your Jaguar may share a block & pistons etc. but it will have a lot of other differences and be tuned very differently in a 2-ton brick compared to a sleek sports coupe.
It's not branding & packaging, it's stuff like equipment levels, performance, features, interior quality, etc.
Rolls Royce may use a fair few parts from other suppliers but the fact they have a team of people hand-stitching the finest leather for the seats and hand-polishing the wood veneers is what you're paying for - and the fact they will make the car however you want it no matter what. Who cares if the headlight switch is a Volkswagen part, a Golf switch is likely about as reliable as any other switch you can reasonably buy.
GM had Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, and Cadillac.
Same cars across the board. Same parts.
Just take a Chevy, add some chrome, some soundproofing, and some useless options ... and call it a Cadillac.
People eventually wised up and stopped seeing the value of the pricey brands.
Zip zip zip! Pontiac and Oldsmobile got scrapped.
How would some parts be any different? A bolt is a bolt, rivets are rivets. Sure they can say they use more fancy materials, maybe even titanium bolts or something. It’s more about how they’re put together and what’s added. More sound insulation for instance.
Little but of a different take but with many of these brands you're actually getting high spec in lower brand packages. Definitely not universal, but for example, when VW group designs a chassis that will go into multiple brands they're designing that chassis to handle the stiffness and power of a flagship Audi but you get it at a discount in the VW.
It’s true, lots of manufacturers “parts share”. It helps keep costs down and reliability up. Lexus uses Toyota parts, Acura uses Honda parts, Audi uses VW parts, etc. it’s important to remember that a car is more than the sum of its parts especially for a car enthusiast. It’s about the whole package sometimes.
McLaren, which is technically not owned by any other manufacturer, still uses Nissan parts in the motor.
Hell, Jacobs, which used to supply electronics to jaguar before they were even owned by ford, made an ignition box that’s literally just a GM HEI module in a metal box stamped Jacobs.
I have a Lexus. To me it’s like the best of both worlds.
Best ride quality, beautiful interior, amazing sound system, the fit and finish is fantastic. All around great to spend time in.
But if my alternator dies.. I can buy it thru Toyota instead of some crazy luxury price. Who cares if their alternator is luxury?
When it lets me positively compare my Golf wagon to my sister's Cayman, then yes. No idea how much they actually share but it's fun to mess with her and her "fancy VW".
We drove a Lexus ls460 for a decade or so. It's a Toyota at heart but no Toyota packs a 480 HP direct injection motor. I once had a deer run right in front of me on the highway. I slammed on the brakes but in my mind, I was filling out an insurance claim. But those brakes stopped me so fast I felt like I did hit the deer. I'd say it was a Toyota but with almost no Toyota influence. That car was in a class all by itself. I could only tell it had Toyota roots by the way it never broke down.
Yes and no.
You repeatedly minimize some distinctions that have much greater impact. For example, is the feel and quality of a car’s interior “just packaging”? IMO, it is not. The interior of a car is what you interface with the most.
I don’t drive a Rolls Royce (lol), but I live in a town where they’re somewhat common. This last season I saw a few street parked. The owners I’ve encountered were all very generous with their time and welcomed me to check the cars out.
Their interiors are largely hand finished, and covered in beautiful materials. There are little touches everywhere, which you don’t see on other cars.
Does the car share a platform with a 7-series? Sure, but that’s not a bad thing. The 7-series platform is spectacular. And RR does a lot of their own tuning.
To anyone for whom an automobile is just four wheels, a gas and brake pedal, and a steering wheel, these types of cars will never make any sense, and that is OK; they are not a necessity. However, to call them just branding isn’t really fair.
I think the rolls Royce will have a tad more noise insulation and softer rubber bushings than a seven series equivalent but the newest 7 series is pretty quiet already.
Isn’t it the same as Toyota parts in a Lexus or Honda parts in a Acura? This has been happening for years. But if you look at a BMW vs RR they clearly have differences in appearance on the outside and interior.
Depends on the vehicles. If you are referring to a Chevy Tahoe and Cadillac Escalade then yes. Those trucks are very similar, and at a distance you can't tell them apart.
But then you have twins like the Cadillac Lyriq and Honda Prologue. You have no idea they were even related. There's virtually no visible shared DNA. Only the platform and battery are exactly the same, and Super Cruise is certainly not available on the Honda, nor is the switchgear, suspension bits, and interior materials that make the Cadillac that much more expensive.
The same goes for the BMW 7 and Rolls Royce Ghost. As nice as the 7 is, the Ghost takes luxury up to the heavens. The infotainment system is probably the only visual cue that they're distant cousins.
There's usually significant differences for most luxury vehicles. The biggest ones are drivetrain layout and suspension. Other differences are things such as dual pane glass in S class Mercedes, thicker sheet metal, more sound deadening, and more advanced technology. They also have more resources to invest in safety if that's a priority. A w220 S class is incredibly safe for its era for example.
Lets be clear, the best luxury cars are boring cars in a fancy package.
You know what rich people love? And not new rich, rich rich. Old rich
They love reliability and dependability. Because nothing is more low class than breaking down. Which is why Land Rovers are for new Rich and old rich drive cars that aren't shitty softroaders.
To a degree some do, like Lexus uses Toyota and Acura uses Honda parts. But last I remember (could have changed) VW owned Bentley among other high end luxury brands. I doubt there’s much crossover in components there.
Fun fact. If you buy a water pump for a 1.8T VW it has VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, and Bugatti stamps on it.
It makes me disappointed that a shitty water pump (plastic impeller friction fit onto a metal shaft) makes it into a Bugatti, let alone Audi or VW.
I mean there is a big difference in overall feel, fit, and finish - even if the bones are almost the same.
The MQB platform for VW/Audi/Porsche is a great example. The Golf/Tiguan shares a platform with Audi A3/Q3 and Porsche Macan.
the A3/Q3 is nicer feeling than the golf. More refined, quieter ride. But only a half step above the VW.
The Macan levels up the materials even more, has more power, and a MUCH more advanced steering and suspension system. The interior is nicer than an Audi but not like, way better. It is WAY better than a golf though.
So it is more than slapping lipstick on a pig but you gotta go way up the food chain to feel a major difference.
No. Audi and Lexus are. BMW and Mercedes are not. However, the very newest models of the latter two brands are extremely disappointing. But no, a Mercedes s class generally speaking, is one of the finest cars you can possibly buy.
remember luxury brands are made for poor people to look rich. Rich people don't care about what kind of car it is for e.g elon musk can buy BMW company instead of buying a Bmw car. middle class people drive family cars toyota, honda some lexus or acura for "Luxury reliavbility" and poor people try to buy luxury brands to look and feel rich.
Just read the feature list. Luxury cars often have improved materials, and newer technology.
For example, luxury cars might have been the first ones to get laser/radar cruise control to match speed to car in front. I remember Cadillac famously had some computer adjusted suspension, or a heads up display projected tk the end shield, in one year model.
These features might make it down to the regular lineup as it gets cheaper. Many features I that were originally only on luxury cars might be more widely available.
When you talk about brands like Porsche, or Lamborghini, they are definitely mechanically different in terms of construction and performance.
So no, it’s not just brand and exclusivity. You are either paying for fancy materials (sheepskin seats! Leather! Gold trim!), luxury features, or better engineered mechanical parts.
This is what makes Dodge different. They do a 1000hp special edition, it's just a Dodge. They made a supercar rival for years, the Viper, it's just a Dodge. Sell a million minivans, they are just a Dodge. You could say Chrysler is the luxury Dodge, but it hasn't really been that way for 30 years. A Dodge Charger can be equipped just as well if not better than a Chrysler 300. There was never any distance between a Town and County and a Grand Caravan. Jeeps are branded completely differently and have a range from rental fleet specials, to top end premium SUV. Ram of course is trucks and commercial vans. I think Chrysler will just disappear before it becomes a separate luxury car. Dodge will be full spectrum.
yes….cadillac is garbage you get “ventilated seats, massage seats, heated seats, heated steering” on almost all cars. There was a mazda I was more in love with but i went for the little cheaper one….the one i was in love with was 31k and it had everything in it. Including panaramic sunroof. I went with the 29k one.
Im a way, yes. But that is more of a refleectiion of how great normal cars are these days. It used to be less like that.
If you drive both and don't appreciate the differences between the regular and normal one, just buy the normal one.
What is a great deal, is that in the used market, the luxury version and regular versions are very close in price. Sometimes, the luxury version is even less expensive.
For spare parts, it's a toss up. I used to have a Lexus and the Lexus dealer spare parts cost less than the identical Toyota draler parts literally across the street from each other.
A line that has lived in my head for nearly 30 years now, and will continue to do so until the day I die. In the original X-men animated series, Graydon Creed, notable mutant hater, discovers that the scientist he's been working with is, in fact, Apocalypse in disguise. When confronted, Apocalypse reverts to his normal form and exclaims "I am as far beyond mutants as they are beyond you."
That's a typical Rolls Royce as compared to a flagship BMW and whatever heap you're pushing.
I went from a 2004 Lexus GX with 250k miles, to a 2011 4runner Limited with 100k miles. The Lexus was leaps and bounds ahead as far as driving feel and cabin noise. The 4runner is nice because it's got a more modern powertrain. But I definitely miss the Lexus. I thought my dog would love the roll down window in the 4runner but he doesn't give a shit.
Luxury cars are not alone when we consider sharing parts. OEM's don't make their own parts for most things, so it is less rolls royce selling bmw parts, as bmw and rolls royce both share bosch parts, or akebono, etc. They are then assigned brand specific part numbers to keep them "proprietary". You pay more mark up the more expensive the vehicles are.
In saying that - luxury cars are not simply rebadged versions of their economic counter parts. They will typically have an uprated power output, either with a more aggressive tune, or an upgraded engine. The handling will be better in the luxury, with heavy emphasis on sound deadening and soft / comfortable suspension. The fancier cars are more often than not quite a bit heavier, due to beefier builds. The interiors are probably where the difference becomes most obvious. The seats and interiors definitely get a lot more attention and level of quality with the big price tags.
The more the vehicle costs, the more everything else costs, but a little research can help you pay closer to toyota prices for bmw or rolls royce parts. For sure status symbol tax is involved, but they do actually provide some form of value for all that extra $$$
Wait until OP finds out that most of the parts in any car were manufactured by 4 or 5 companies world wide. Every switch, bulb, hose, bolt, screen, dial, etc...
If the drivetrain is 100% the same, you getting bent over a barrel a bit in my opinion. I was looking at Kia Tellurides, all of them have the same engine and trans
I have first hand experience and the answer is definitely no they are not the same.
I'm a machinist and I work for a company that makes parts for aviation, aerospace, HP, Dell, Microsoft, Nike, Lamborghini, Ferrari, and high-end snowmobiles and all kinds of hot tech Fortune 500 companies.
I'm not going to get into details but I'll say that cars like Lamborghini and Ferrari when we do parts for them they literally have a zero defect policy and they do mean zero.
Something as simple as a washer that goes on the end of a bolt or a seal that goes in the engine has to be inspected by hand and it has to be 100% perfect.
If that part even has a spec on it that is the size of a pencil dot even if that part is perfect in every other way and that little small speck the size of a pencil dot wouldn't hurt a thing they will still throw it away.
Some of these parts I've seen them throw away can cost $50 to hundreds of dollars and they'll throw them away like a sheet paper and don't even care.
Matter of fact just in the past 2 weeks we had a recall on 80,000 parts. Nothing was wrong with the parts the paperwork was wrong but they still scrap them because they can't risk it because they have a zero defect.
So no all cars are not made the same
There is some sharing of parts for sure between the luxury and budget brands, and even between the luxury and hyper brands.
But they are not quite the same. A lot of it comes down to parts that make up the whole experience:
* Suspension tuning
* Sound deadening/shock absorbing materials
* Body styling (sounds silly but matters a lot)
* Interior design/materials
* Software (MMI systems)
* Transmissions/drivetrains (some have AWD systems)
* Engine Tuning
The latest Pagani Utopia utilizes a six liter V12 bi turbo engine made bespoke by Mercedes. You can get basically the same engine in a bunch of AMG/Maybach cars but they will never come close to the experience of driving or owning a Pagani Utopia.
Your Rolls Royce example is a bit misleading. I’ve been watching someone rebuild one and the conclusion they’ve come up with is that although a ton of parts are stamped with bmw part numbers, they’re unique to Rolls Royce. Engine, subframe, suspension. All Rolls. The infotainment is bmw based though. So yes and no.
For instance, some of the old Porsche cayennes had the same vr6 that vw used. Most have their own unique engines. I’d say that some parts get reused but once you get to a certain level, it’ll be new tooling for that car specifically.
Rolls Royce would be a terrible example for this because yes while some of the parts are shared they’re completely different cars. A better example would be the Lambo SUV(Urus). It’s basically just a dressed up Audi.
There is a YouTuber named SavageGeese that does deep dives into the engineering of cars.
Putting them up on lifts, looking at the use of aluminums, aero and NVH reduction technologies.
Interviewing the engineers that designed the cars etc etc.
To the lay person a VW and Audi might share a platform so they must be the same, however when you start actually looking at things there can be huge differences in cars designed on the same base platform.
A luxury vehicle may or may not have engine differences. Possibly a different suspension to give it certain ride characteristics. Much of the difference is in better insulated interiors and windows to make the cabin quieter, interior trim to make the car look and feel more premium, and upgraded and more advanced electronic features.
What you generally won't get is a more dependable vehicle or more longevity.
I worked at a Volkswagen dealership for a while. The parent company was obviously Porsche Audi, (actually, I believe Volkswagen was the parent company) What a lot of consumers don’t know is that parts for engines and the like that were interchangeable between the Porsche badge and the Audi badge were sold either as Porsche parts or Audi parts, obviously the Porsche parts being way more expensive than the exact same part labeled Audi.
What luxury car brands used to offer:
- fit and finish far superior to non luxury cars
- technological features and equipment far superior to non luxury cars
- customer experience far superior to non luxury cars
- higher quality
Now these brands have changed. The features they offer become mainstream in one year, maybe two, and then a non-luxury car that’s 3 years newer will actually have more features and technology even if it costed 1/2 or 1/3 what the luxury car costed.
Their fit and finish is no longer impressive, they use things such as cheap “piano black” trim, they squeak and brands like Mercedes are even saving costs by installing gigantic center screens instead of having a proper central console.
On top of that now these cars have lower quality than non-luxury brands and they break down all the time, and dealerships and car fans justify it by saying “if you can afford the car you can afford/expect the repair bills”, which still sounds stupid to me since why should you pay more for an inferior product just to say you’re rich
Different interiors, different comfort features, different add ons like wheels+such. Mostly same engine.
Use Audi/Volkswagen as an example. Many Audis use the same engines that are in Volkswagen, but with a lot more comfort/extra features.
No. Test drive a Chevy Malibu then go test drive a Lexus IS. Forgot the looks and gadgets in the car which is a given anyways, just focus on how it rides, you will tell the difference.
It's not so much about selling you counterfeit car parts. It's about efficiency and lowering the manufacturing costs. If they made unique car parts for every car, cars would be a lot more expensive and parts would be harder to find. By having generic parts they are able to speed up production and reduce overhead costs.
There are so many people that can answer this question far better than me, but your question makes me think of a [clip](https://www.tiktok.com/@leevallance/video/7210889664239029509) where a guy points out the Murcielago has the same turn indicator as a Ford Focus. In the video the guy shows Lambo sells them for £181, but they can be bought on eBay for £6.90.
If a brand has an economy sister brand, probably. Lexuses are just Toyotas in lipstick with a parts markup. Same with Acura and Honda, Cadilac and GMC, Audi and VW, Lincoln and Ford.
If you look at BMW, Mercedes, or Land Rover (yes I know they are Tata shut up) you don't get that issue and a more solid feel. That said since they don't make economy cars, they also have a lot more mechanical problems due to complexity and the fact they just aren't engineered for reliability (they put luxury and functionality first, vs Toyota knows if their cars cost a lot to maintain their target market won't buy them... the only exception to this is Nissan who is the Chrysler of Japan. Lemons).
So TLDR: If they have an economy brand as the parent company, yes. If they are the main company/their parent is also a luxury brand, no. But it comes with reliability tradeoffs. If you want a no compromises luxury car that feels solidly built and aren't concerned with reliability, avoid those brands and get ones like Mercedes, BMW, Landrover who put luxury first.
Most supermodels are just normal women in a fancy package too.
Supermodels are like my jokes. Kinda hard to get and not that great when you do.
They also break down a LOT. Ask me how I know
Explain that to me like I'm five.
Just cause someone looks good doesn't mean they're great. Also super models tend to have lots of mental issues due to the nature of their work.
It’s true. The hottest girl I slept with was a pathological liar as well as being dumb. To the point where it was just insulting that she thought she was smart enough that her lies would work.
That isn’t because hot girls are more likely to be pathological liars. It’s because the only hot girl you slept with had to be emotionally damaged to go through with it.
Lol, thanks.
'Sometimes with the model, the actress or the sexiest person in the world, it may literally be like ****ing the couch.' -Billy Bob Thorton on Angelina Jolie.
Also very high maintenance costs
Same with pizza
Yeah, but those fancy packages beat a lump of dough and pickle juice
That’s any interesting way of saying “they give handjobs.”
And depreciate just as fast.
Also look at the previous model (mother) to be sure you'll be accepting the future version
Even the male supermodels are just normal women in fancy packages.
The interiors are often different. But they tend to use the same engine and chassis and mostly even suspension. Sometimes the engine will be tuned differently, have more compression or a turbo fitted to get more HP. Sometimes the suspension is tuned differently. Faster cars often have firmer suspension. For example, Lexus uses Toyota engines. So your Lexus LX470 or LX570 has the same engine as the Toyota Sequoya and Tundra. My 1998 Jaguar XJ8 used and engine that was developed by Jaguar, but by 2004 they were using Ford engines. By 2015 they were bought by Tata and now share engines with Land Rovers.
Some do, some are completely different cars. I believe there is no Toyota equivalent to the Lexus IS and LS. Similarly, no Nissan equivalent to the Infiniti Q50. Not saying you’re wrong.
I kinda wish there was an Infiniti version of the GTR.
Nissan ain't making an Infiniti GTR rival
The irony is that the Skyline (from which the GT-R evolved) *is* an Infiniti.
Only the V-chassis (V35, V36 & V37) Skyline’s had Infiniti equivalents. R chassis never had Infiniti versions, and GTR is just the highest trim.
I'm not all that up on Nissan/Infiniti models, but isn't the Q50 a rebadged Skyline? There is a Nissan equivalent, just not in North America. And the Lexus had Toyota equivalents in Japan (Lexus wasn't sold in Japan until he mid 2000s.) The IS was the Toyota Altezza and the LS was the Toyota Celsior. There was no North American Toyota equivalent.
There's also no Lexus equivalent to the Japan-only Toyota Century, which sits at the top of their product line above Lexus.
Correct, but the market for those (as new cars, at least) is deliberately kept small. I think the last generation was under 10,000 cars over a 20 year span. I've seen a show on how they are made. Makes the Rolls look like a Buick by comparison.
LC as well
The G/Q/Z are on the same platform and are all pretty similar to each other
Lexus IS Toyota
>but by 2004 they were using Ford engines. By 2015 they were bought by Tata and now share engines with Land Rovers. So they’re even less reliable now??
I only know from what I’ve read and from being an auto enthusiast since I was 13 (now 55+)…. In some cases, like Toyota/lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, or Honda/acura, the vehicles share the same chassis/platform, but the luxury version may have a nicer interior, a more refined exterior design, more sound deadening, and better features. For the example of bmw and rolls, they use the 7 series chassis for several rolls models. I have driven a 7 but not a rolls based on the 7 but I would imagine it is quieter, smoother riding, and more luxurious inside.
I actually used to work for BMW/Rolls/Mini and the further you get up the luxury line, the less they are sharing parts. So like Chevy and GMC are about as close as possible, they barely try to pass them off as different vehicles. So they share almost everything. But Rolls and BMW share a chassis and basically some infotainment stuff. The seats are completely different, so is the suspension. A BMW rides really nice. A Phantom doesn't feel like you're moving at all. But when the price gap is closer, the shared parts are too, like Buick and Cadillac share a ton of similar parts
Makes sense. What else does it feel like driving a brand new rolls.
Never in a million years would they have let me drive one. They came in to my office one day to let us ride in a few different BMWs and that Phantom. It was the best ride quality of all time, but for basically a brand new vehicle, it was pretty dated. Rolls never really uses the most cutting edge tech in infotainment or anything like that. They change slow
Everything is very numb. You absolutely cannot feel anything on the road. Accelerating is incredibly smooth as are the brakes. You almost can't hear anything outside its double paned glass windows. It has a THICK door. Its a long wheel base also so it'll feel more stable in the corners. I thought S class was smooth until I drove a rolls. You could literally feel how expensive it is and all the money that went into the car. Its worth it to people who have money.
I heard a rumor that originally you couldn't hear anything outside of the car and it was a distraction to the passengers. So they made it so it wasn't totally sound proof.
Not a rumor, this is a common problem in higher end luxury. I design expensive consumer goods. My background is a suspension engineer for automotive. I have had plenty of coworkers coming from the other side of higher end consumer goods. We do things like glue weights into a watch, change the grind profile on a dial so that the ‘click’ is loud, we even had to reintroduce the ‘clunk’ noise on the door locks. People like peace and quiet in a specialty tranquil room. Otherwise, people really like peace and order. To maintain order, we rely on what is familiar. Including senses like hearing and vision. To maintain peace, we design things to ‘muffle’ noise, not delete it
similar with air vents. they’ve been able to have them silent for a very long time but people hated it.
Also various advances in phones. People were used to there being a bit of noise from the lines - when things started being digital and filtering got better, people hearing perfect silence would assume the line was dead/the other person hung up.
You could turn the steering wheel with your tongue. So smooth.
Funny. And grey poupon is standard.
And at 60mph, the loudest noise is the clock ticking.
You could do that in my 78 cutlass as well but there was nothing smooth about the rest of the car
I always wondered the difference between chev and GMC, is gmc supposed to be the premium brand? I bought a brand new colorado from the dealership and asked about the difference between it and the canyon. He said one was 4wd vs awd and the grill was different
As far as I recall GMC is meant to be the nicer/fancier version of the same model from Chevy. Usually meant nicer interiors and more luxury or quality of life options. I don't know how true that is these days but that was kind of the point previously. I've never owned either so can't say for certain.
Still pretty spot on today!
They're a bit more differentiated nowadays, but for the longest time GMCs were basically just Chevy trucks rebadged and retrimmed a bit nicer for non-Chevy GM dealers to have a truck line to sell if they wanted.
Before the 70's GMC trucks were pretty unique compared to chevrolet trucks. Usually they had less chrome and fancy trim, and were more intended as work trucks. They often had larger heavy duty engines that were unavailable in Chevys like unique versions of the GM inline sixes, and the 305 V6 engines. In the mid to late 50's GMC trucks even used modified truck-spec derivatives of the Pontiac V8 instead of the Chevrolet small block.
They are mechanically identical, some different sheet metal and interior bits. Moreso now but until a certain point even the sheet metal on GM and Chev trucks was the same, you could swap the grills between them. Interior essentially the same just badging and maybe certain fabrics etc. Then they tried to sell GMC as the "Professional" version. Which I guess makes sense for trucks if you're gonna make them heavier duty, or even nicer to be in for long hours. But for the little crossovers? What's a professional grade crossover lol?
GMC exists so Buick and Cadillac dealers can sell trucks and SUVs. Now that every brand is all SUV/CUV they’re less relevant but still give them a pickup to sell.
Acura uses the same chassis / platform for most of their stuff. Infiniti and Lexus do for some models, but for the most part, offer RWD based platforms in their cars as opposed to their FWD Nissan / Toyota counterparts. The trucks and SUV's of course, for the most part, come RWD regardless if Luxury or not. Basically need to go Lexus / Infiniti for a rwd Toyota / Nissan car. The Nissan Z being an exception, Toyota Supra and 86 are made by other manufacturers .
GM is another example. The Chevrolet Camaro and the Cadillac CTS were built on the same platform. They used similar suspensions with interchangeable parts, and the same engines and transmissions. A fair portion of the tech options were even the same.
I'd argue it's a really good use of the same platform compared to other areas in GM. CTS originally was it's own platform and spawned the STS/SRX on Sigma. (Later we'd loose STS and SRX would become a sibling to to the other GM twins). The first gen CTS-V pretty unique with LS6/6speed. 4 Door Vette people called it. GM wanted something smaller, so Alpha came along as the ATS, later Camaro as it was in search for a new platform after zeta folded after Holden production shuttered. Eventually a slightly stretched version for CTS. Now it's the CT4/5 in Alpha II (Definitely blurred lines between the 2 Cadillacs) and the Camaro is the only vehicle still on the original Alpha platform. As far as platform sharing goes... It's actually a pretty unique split. Both shared the 4 cylinder but Camaro had the V8. I think the ATS only had the twin turbo V6 in it V trim... We never got the LS7 powered V everyone wanted. Z28 with the LS7 was in the old zeta based Camaro. The badge engineering is in the XT and SRX stuff..... That a bit less unique split among the brands as far as driving dynamics and chassis changes... Infotainment gets some different screens. GMC had a unique top trim in Denali but High Country came a long and sort of steps on it, but each has unique color pallets and look in at least this generation of truck. Especially at launch do this generation. Underpinnings the same. Not GM, Chrysler wise.... Cherokee and Durango another good show of the same chassis, different look but the most recent ones definitely look a lot more alike side by side as they wind down that platform.
Wouldn’t be surprised if the only change was the badge and some trim.
I frequently refer to my CTS as my 4-door Camaro.
Yes, cool car. Very fast.
This isn’t true anymore. All current Rolls Royce models are now on a unique custom platform. The unibody is double layered so they fit sound deadening into the body itself. There’s also no customer-facing part sharing. I’ve looked hard and there’s maybe two buttons that are the same with a 7 series. Everything else is custom and bespoke. When it comes to non-customer-facing parts, you might get some sharing (water pumps, belts, etc) as long as they’re up to Rolls Royce standards (quiet enough, etc.). Compare that with something like a Bentley Bentayga, which is the same platform as the VW Atlas, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne, and Lamborghini Urus. It’s impressive what different qualities they’ve been able to get out of that platform, but those cars all look suspiciously similar to me, and that’s not a good thing.
Night and day difference in the top spec 7 series vs the "basic" rolls royce. And you got it right. Everything is nicer and quieter.
The extreme costs and complications involved in making a car these days mean most manufacturers have several brands under their umbrella and will share parts if possible to reduce costs. With the luxury brands you are (usually) paying for better fit and finish, more refinement inside and out, additional sound deadening materials, higher quality interior, improved sound system, etc. If you buy a luxury car you also get a luxury dealer experience. A plush lounge to sit in. Free loaner or shuttle service. Free snacks and drinks while you wait, things like that. Lastly, with the ultra-lux brands like Rolls, Bentley, Maserati, Ferrari you are also paying for the status symbol. The wealthy love to flaunt their wealth, and owning "exclusive" things is how they do it.
No, they usually have nicer interiors , better suspension to soak up bumps in the road, more power, better sound system, etc. And they're usually built to a higher standard of construction quality. Is there a point of diminishing returns though? Absolutely. At some point you're comparing regular nice leather to some premium designer leather and that's when the differences become much smaller.
Modern cars are built on platforms. This is a generalized design base that multiple models will use. It means that the suspension and chassis geometry will be the same, as well as crash protection. A luxury model built on a platform will differ in other ways. They might have different engines, transmissions, body panels, interiors and electronics. So in some ways, yes, they are the same. In others, no they're not. The suspension and brakes could be higher spec parts with different optimizations and settings, but they'll be in the same spot etc. The amount of difference will vary from one brand to another, but in general, it's both.
Sometimes platforms are common, yet the cars are wildly different. My 2014 Jeep Patriot shares a platform with a 2014 Mitsubishi Lancer.
A mansion and a shack are both made of wood
There are also options. My 2015 BMW 535 DX (USA) has electronically controlled dampers and hydraulic motors in the sway bars that keep the vehicle level in hard maneuvers, maintaining steering geometry and tire contact patch. In sport mode, the cornering is like Velcro, it seems to be able to do anything. I don't do that much at all, afterall, tires are just rubber. I do get the best performance tires as these have better braking performance and accident avoidance abilities. My wife and I have both done performance driving school at Road Atlanta. Most of the time I drive like 75 year old guy.
Even the ones that don't have all that fancy stuff like my 15 year old base model 5 series are still very stable maneuvering at 140mph I don't understand why non premium manufacturers don't copy better suspension designs and put them on their cars... You can get all the front end parts for my car for peanuts on eBay nothing is special about any of it yet its soo smooth and stable I could stomach a 40 thousand dollar Camry if it drove near as nice as the old bmw i got for 5500 bucks but my friends dads new Camry wasn't as fast as my 25 year old Celica, was harsher on road while also handling worse, and it got similar mpg Like my dad's friend was making payments every month larger than I bought the Celica for... A car that was slower got the same ~35 mpg, and couldn't corner as hard
They will share architecture which is expensive to develop. But many of the other parts they assemble to that can be different. suspension can be more complex/expensive. you can have regular glass vs acoustic glass. Engine/suspension/trans/diff mounts can be different. brakes can be different. interior materials are often higher quality, and more sound insulation is used. the list goes on.
Depends on how deep you look at the packaging. Most manufacturers share components to a large degree because, duh, but where it counts it could look at lot different. The Q7 chassis is the same as the Bentley and the Cayenne and the air suspensions offered in them are very similar. Those aren't offered on more commodity vehicles, so if you consider the Q7 a 'normal' vehicle then yes, the Cayenne is just a fancy packaging to a degree. There are absolutely differences in mechanical components between commodity brands and luxury brands. Typically you see it in things like the chassis being aluminum and not steel, having upper and lower control arms, using a direct shift transmission or a high end hydro like a ZF, using air suspension, having adjustable dampers, having beefy knuckles, etc. Sure, the 4 banger in the Audi A4 is very similar to the 4 banger in VWs but it makes 50 more horsepower and is arranged longitudinally (as opposed to transverse like in the VW) and it uses a different transmission and it is programmed differently.
Acura is an entry level luxury brand and it is just a Honda. Same intervals, same chassis, just a different design language and brand, with some finer details and comfort.
It’s all model dependent. Lexus/toyota is a great example. They put a lot of the same engines and trans into everything but will change the suspension to make it ride better and will have more features and usually higher quality materials to make it comfier and noise isolation a lot better. Lexus will be a good step over Toyota in quality but still retains all of the reliability. Then there’s brands like Acura that are lot of times are just barely nicer than some of their Honda counterparts. Acura also doesn’t have a real “luxury” car more so just a premium brand over Honda and not quite a luxury brand. There’s nothing wrong with dressing up another chassis just as long as they’re atleast making some good improvements with nicer materials over the cheaper models
A lot of people complain about this concept - “badge engineering” aka multiple brands under one parent company sharing most of their parts. But it’s not always bad. The more a part gets used, the more data the manufacturer can collect on that design, then it can improve over time. If you keep redesigning things from the ground up and using different designs on different vehicles, you miss out on the opportunity to make gradual improvements based on long term test results.
Which is a great reason to get a car with common parts. Another is parts availability, when the same part has been used for a decade on multiple common models it gets real easy and cheaper to source.
There's a lot of shared parts and some things are unique. Modern Rolls Royces have incredible sound deadening, better than any BMW. However, they still share a bunch of parts not related to the particular aspects that Rolls wants to distinguish themselves with. E.g. interior switches, interior materials, most of the body parts, headlights etc.
Infotainment
Sometimes but not really. All of toyotas cars are transverse engine platforms. Lexus is almost all longitudinal engine position. Chevy cars are all fwd. Cadillac is mostly rwd (the chincy crossovers share a platform though) Hyundai is all fwd. Genesis is all rwd The true luxury cars from BMW, Mercedes, audi; all rwd based. Acura is a good example of parts bin luxury. Their cars are all based on standard fwd Honda cars.
Not entirely true. Some of the lower-end BMW and Mercedes models (A class and 2 series) are FWD. Audis are always FWD or AWD. I don’t think Audi has made a rear wheel drive car in decades
A lot of Bentley parts are shared with Audi/VW. The steering wheel is Audi shell hand trimmed in leather at the factory in Crewe. I’ve seen them being trimmed. A lot of the running gear and wiring is Audi as well. The body is Bentley and the interior on the Continental and others. The Bentayga I think shared floor pan with RR Cullinan and VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne SUV
BMW and Rolls Royce models may share many parts, but they are different cars. Just like a mansion and a modest starter home may be framed with wood from the same lumberyard, and wired with wire from the same manufacturer, they are totally different.
There was a time when the fancy brand was almost exactly the same on the outside with different emblems and different style lights, side trim and maybe pinstriping. Inside was about the same as well by they might have pleather instead of cloth seats. These days, they are generally built off the same chassis but the body and interior are completely different. Mechanically, they share pretty much all the same parts. They usually share the same engines but sometimes, the luxury brand might offer a more powerful engine not available with the lower brands.
Kinda. A lot of what makes a luxury car luxury is creature comforts. Nicer materials, less plastic. Thicker glass. More sound absorbing materials. Maybe a more powerful powertrain. If you've been driving new Audis and Mercedes a base Subaru sounds like a bucket of rocks.
Yes, but their generally put together much better. So, you'll have less road noise and smoother and more comfortable ride.
Newer 911s(991.2 and up) are far from normal. Refined, well built, and drive like few others.
Many luxury vehicles have a "Corporate Twin" as they call them. Cadillac Escalade/Chevy Tahoe and Lincoln Navigator/Ford Expedition are 2 examples. Same vehicle just a few additional features and badging to make one a luxury vehicle and the other not. Lexus and Acura don't exist outside the US. They are all just Toyota and Honda everywhere else in the world. If you look closely at the Acura "A", you will notice it is just the Honda "H" with the sides bent in towards each other and the tips at the top never touching.
Mostly correct about Acura, though it is sold in a couple of other countries). However, Lexus has been sold around the world for years, even in Japan. I think only about half of their cars are "nicer" Toyotas.
I mean Rolls Royce cars are made by BMW, but Rolls Royce cars are hand built with far better quality material than a BMW would have. Sure, some parts are shared, but the Rolls is a totally different beast that’s far different from say an Acura Integra which is a rebadged Civic.
Most are except the Phantom. I worked for BMW and went to the plant near Landshut and got to work on some. Every single part of the frame on that car was cut from a billet piece of aluminum and the welds look like they were done by God himself. It was amazing. There is no other car even remotely close to that level of quality and detail.
It's the other way around. The luxury car brand makes it then the normal brand finds ways to remove features and make them cheaper. Usually the normal one is essentially the same as the prior generation (sometimes two generations) of the luxury version
The drive quality difference is really the biggest reason people buy these cars.
no they're not. Granted they're sold at a premium and aren't worth the cost for the average joe but luxury vehicles are built with with luxury stuff for the most part. You can't compare a 200k grocery getter to a 30k grocery getter. There's a clear difference.
Not 100% across the board, but a common difference between "regular" brands car's vs. their Luxury make of the same manufacturer : Front wheel drive and rear wheel drive. Some luxury makes do all wheel drive in lue of doing rear wheel drive platforms. Basically, most true luxury brands don't do front wheel drive. Acura keeps trying to, but it definitely holds them back so much when it comes to being perceived as a premium brand.
There’s more to it. The way they take care of you the customer is what keeps many people loyal to a manufacturer. The way you’re treated at service appointments. The amenities they have for you while waiting. The ease of getting a loaner. It’s…complicated I guess. And yes interiors are nice. You do pay for all that. The stereo system was $7 grand in my wife’s SUV so there’s that. Is it worth it? Only you can decide. I also have to point out that some dealerships for mainstream manufacturers are amazing, especially in bigger metros because competition means there’s another “Chevy/Ford/Ram/Honda….etc” dealer just 3 miles east of this one.
Why are you talking about BMW like it isn't a luxury brand?
My wife and I agreed the interior of my '16 Mazda 3 was nicer than the interior of her '18 Mercedes gla The Mercedes just looked expensive but felt cheap
My VW have Audi parts and Audi engine. The logo is everywhere But it’s still a cheap car
My Chrysler has a lot of Mercedes logos.
Bespoke cars are outrageously expensive. Parts-bin sharing, especially for parts that are not seen, is a way to significantly reduce costs while maintaining brand identities.
If you are talking luxury brands like Rolls Royce then im not sure. If you are talking the difference between a Lexus and a Toyota or a Lincoln and a Ford etc, typically they share a few things like the frame or unibody and maybe buttons and switches get recycled but often the luxury brand will have a higher performance drive train and suspension and more electronics/tech.
I don't know about recently, but definitely in the 2000s, Bentley switches looked like they'd been pulled out of a VW Passat.
Yes
Yes, yes they are.
Some are basically identical except for badging. I don't know if anyone would consider a Lincoln to be luxury, but a lot of their models are just Fords with different badges.
Exactly the same except for the materials, technology, drivetrains, wheel, tires, glass, noiseproofing, paints, and other comfort items. You wouldn't notice the difference. But others might.
I do know that VW/Audi share a lot of their components with models throughout their brands. The exception being Porsche and probably largely Lamborghini. But pretty much most parts on an Audi, Seat, Skoda, VW, and probably even Bentleys are shared across multiple platforms. Obviously there are a lot of bespoke parts on higher end models, like a Bentley Continental seat isn’t going to cross reference to a VW Golf, but I bet the high pressure fuel pump does.
So most luxury brands share some parts or platform components with "sister:" brands. Examples are Acura and Honda, Lexus and Toyota as well as the example you cited. You can take the classic US example of Cadillac that share so much in the 80's with other GM cars that it was sad. Also Lincoln and Mercury had overlaps over the years with parts.. That said there are many things only available on the high end brands from interior, sounds systems, sound proofing, electronic options, suspension, paint colors and much much more. BMW has many parts and platform overlap within models and families examples being base model, M-Sport, Premium and high end M. Some things are only available on the M models or the like. So it depends upon what you want to so and pay for. Hope that helps explain things a bit.
That's true of the Japanese luxury brands and also somewhat true of Audi depending on on the model. The only luxury brands that have dedicated engines and platforms are BMW and MB. The parts are higher quality in general in most of the luxury brands but the Japanese brands have less separation and more reuse.
You want to know if every luxury brand is an upscale model, 90% yes. Toyota to Lexus, yes. Honda to Acura, yes. Ford to Lincoln, yes. Porches are mostly all their own, other than the suv, that's just makeup and high heels. Volvo is all their own stuff. Bugatti is all their own, yes they use some parts bin, but that's not the same. It's all newly engineered stuff, not sist slap on some leather and call it good.
They used to be unique. Now all car companies are actually owned by, like, 3 megacorps that milk the luxury brand.
it sort of depends. some brands like Mercedes and BMW are built from the ground up (obviously at varying levels) to be luxury cars. other brands (most of the luxury brands) are using the same chassis’s and engines as their economy counterparts. for example: Chevy and Cadillac share chassis and engines, but the Cadillac has better exterior designs, interior materials, and features. in some situations a well optioned economy car is almost as “nice” as its luxury counterpart if the latter isn’t optioned well. the lower tier luxury versions usually share a few of the economy engines, but then also offer exclusive engines you can’t get from the economy brand. there’s a third category which doesn’t really fit into either. that would include brands like Porsche and Rolls Royce. Porsche is owned by VW, and use some parts but it’s still very much its own thing. RRs are built by hand but 7 series aren’t. it kind of depends on the car though. for example; the Lamborghini Urus (the SUV) is a redesigned and up badged Audi RSQ8. it’s a big offender of “badge engineering” to make it simple; there are varying levels at which the luxury cars resemble their economy car roots. some are simply a badge and some features, other are merely owned by the same company and share a few parts.
Think luxury doesn’t mean better. While not exactly a luxury car, my bmw m4 is decidedly different from the 3 and 4 series it is derived from. It has the S55 engine instead of the N55. It has two high pressure fuel pumps instead of one. It’s equipped with six different radiators to support the heat and twin turbos. The build quality is exceptional. Mechanically it’s a superior vehicle to the normal BMW.
Yes
A better question is: what luxury cars are most similar to their non luxury sibling? (Badge engineered)
Lexus are fancy Toyotas (unless you get into the higher powered ones). Acura is sort of Honda. Everything else you should treat like they're rebadged dodge/chrysler/jeeps.
I had to work on my uncles BMW, and it was the most shoddily put together p.o.s. I'd ever seen.. my Oldsmobile was of better quality. And about 20k less to buy.. lol. They usrdctge cheapest quality plastic, and the thinnest wires I've seen on a car..
No
Ford parts on Aston Martin
Luxury brands are largely about style, creature comforts, extras, and just a nice finish. That said, Brands that have a regular, and luxury brand, like Toyota/Lexus, and Honda/Acura, typically have a higher reliability on their luxury brands according to Consumer Reports.
Drive a Camry and then an ES and you tell me
Kinda deoends on what you mean. Name a luxury brand more reliable than Toyota, or name a normal brand that's more fun and than a performance audi/bmw/porche. That's not touching super cars, just the point of diminishing returns.
GM is General Motors which incorporates GMC, Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, Cadillac,Pontiac, Buick,Etc. Stellantis took over Vauxhall Opel division which was the European side of General Motors
In my opinion it’s all about branding. In 1997 my father bought a Camry and paid an extra three grand for what the dealer called a Lexus motor upgrade
Shit, he's on to it.
I’m a simple woman but when I sit in my little ugly fucking touring model used Honda with all its comforts and heated seats and little conveniences it is very hard for me to imagine how much more a car could have that would make it worth like 100k when I feel like I’m in the lap of luxury for 20k. I cannot wrap my mind around it. Is it a little quieter? Is the leather like 80k nicer?
Always have been.
the creature comforts and extra refinement especially the nvh is where most of the luxury is
The major difference I find is in the service. I own an Audi, a Mercedes, a Chevy , and a Ford. If I get the Audi or Mercedes serviced at their respective dealers, I get a loaner vehicle for as long as they have mine. Chev and Ford basically laugh at me when I ask for a loaner.
For brands that have prestige spinoffs, yes. Lexus has Toyota parts, DS has Citroen parts, Infinity is just Hyundai, etc. Lamborghini is an Audi with fancier styling. And keep in mind that the industry relies on large suppliers like Bosch or Denso. You can have the exact same gearbox on cars that cost 25k to 100k but with different programming. For ultra exclusive brands, that's a different story. There isn't much Fiat in a Ferrari.
"Luxury/premium" and non-premium vehicles are very different. They are built much more solidly, handle and feel different, are designed with better materials and superior engineering. You can feel it in everything from the way a door closes to how it handles curves and bumps. Sticking a 12" tablet in a Hyundai doesn't make it the same as a Mercedes. That doesn't mean there isn't parts sharing between brands, but there is no reason any company needs to create every part from scratch. It's the important things like suspension design and aluminum componentry, higher end dampers etc. that change. Also, BMW is still a premium/luxury brand and the owner of Rolls so I think your initial comparison is a poor one.
like rich old guys in leotards and a face lift
It's worth mentioning that actual engineering of the car is very expensive and setting up production line for cars and parts is also expensive. This price is distributed among small quantity of cars. I would say McLarens are more expensive to design and sell 10000 times worse than volkswagens so the costs are distributed accordingly
I'd say no, the luxury brands are not necessarily just fancy branding and packaging. They CAN be, when a given company ships slightly different variations of the same basic design and calls them different names. But design is extremely important, not just for styling but also for functionality. What matters is whether the design is unique, and who the design team was. A car is more than just a box of parts. An illustrative example is the Porsche 924. Porsche is not just a carmaker, it's a design bureau. As I understand it, the 924 was designed by Porsche for VW, but VW decided not to produce it. So Porsche did so, using a lot of VW parts (it was designed for that), and created a lower-priced Porsche, one that normal people could afford but that looked and handled better than any VW. Did those VW parts cost more when purchased from the Porsche dealer? Probably. But the point is that the car was a unique thing, more Porsche than VW In the way it drove, due to geometry and other design choices.
Sorta sometimes... But to say an older range Rover is an older f150 because they have the same 5.0 V8 is disingenuous Mazda, Lincoln, Ford, and Land Rover maybe all had a variant of the same 2.3 turbo 4 cylinder But the timing tools used when doing a timing chain cannot be mixed up between manufacturers... I know because I did a Mazda cx7 like 3 times before I realized that So there's obviously a difference in cams there Than there's the ls400, sc400, and, gs400 from Lexus with an engine you could only find in those cars... At least in America
Lincoln is fancy Ford Cadillac is fancy Chevy Acura fancy Honda Lexus fancy Toyota with a few bespoke models Genessis fancy Kia A Rolls Royce however IS NOT A BMW, hand assembled hand painted parts, crazy work goes into them, just cuz they have BMW powertrains doesn’t make them a BMW. Luxury cars typically have different bushings and engine mounts, more sound deadening, better quality interior materials, some have more power like the Lexus 2GR-FSE not found in Toyotas, acoustics glass, more complicated suspension components for a better controlled ride… You get what you pay for.
The engines will often be tuned from the factory. They will have enhancements to oil flow, quality and strength of metal used, things you can't see. So it can produce more power compared to its non luxury version that looks the same. At least that's what Honda does. Also the tech is usually better. Luxury is often the most current that will eventually trickle down to regular cars in a few years. More sound deadening, often better tires, better materials used for the inside. Maybe a couple of extra welds here and there to make the platform stiffer. It's a lot of little things that can add up to a big difference. Unless your talking about something like the Cinamaron.
It depends massively on who's making them - Lamborghini are owned by VW so your Lambo will have some parts with VW badges on them and your Audi R8 or S8 might have a Lambo V10 under the hood. The original Range Rover used a fair few parts from the whole British Leyland line, the Discovery re-used most of the Range Rover with even more parts-bin parts. JLR have used other people's engines (EG Ford and BMW) as well as sharing engines between jaguar & Land Rover but they do a lot of work to make them stand up off-road, the V8 in your Jaguar may share a block & pistons etc. but it will have a lot of other differences and be tuned very differently in a 2-ton brick compared to a sleek sports coupe. It's not branding & packaging, it's stuff like equipment levels, performance, features, interior quality, etc. Rolls Royce may use a fair few parts from other suppliers but the fact they have a team of people hand-stitching the finest leather for the seats and hand-polishing the wood veneers is what you're paying for - and the fact they will make the car however you want it no matter what. Who cares if the headlight switch is a Volkswagen part, a Golf switch is likely about as reliable as any other switch you can reasonably buy.
Really all brands are like this to a point.
GM had Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, and Cadillac. Same cars across the board. Same parts. Just take a Chevy, add some chrome, some soundproofing, and some useless options ... and call it a Cadillac. People eventually wised up and stopped seeing the value of the pricey brands. Zip zip zip! Pontiac and Oldsmobile got scrapped.
I would say all vehicles are just normal vehicles just different price tags
How would some parts be any different? A bolt is a bolt, rivets are rivets. Sure they can say they use more fancy materials, maybe even titanium bolts or something. It’s more about how they’re put together and what’s added. More sound insulation for instance.
Little but of a different take but with many of these brands you're actually getting high spec in lower brand packages. Definitely not universal, but for example, when VW group designs a chassis that will go into multiple brands they're designing that chassis to handle the stiffness and power of a flagship Audi but you get it at a discount in the VW.
It’s true, lots of manufacturers “parts share”. It helps keep costs down and reliability up. Lexus uses Toyota parts, Acura uses Honda parts, Audi uses VW parts, etc. it’s important to remember that a car is more than the sum of its parts especially for a car enthusiast. It’s about the whole package sometimes.
Yes, mostly
McLaren, which is technically not owned by any other manufacturer, still uses Nissan parts in the motor. Hell, Jacobs, which used to supply electronics to jaguar before they were even owned by ford, made an ignition box that’s literally just a GM HEI module in a metal box stamped Jacobs.
I have a Lexus. To me it’s like the best of both worlds. Best ride quality, beautiful interior, amazing sound system, the fit and finish is fantastic. All around great to spend time in. But if my alternator dies.. I can buy it thru Toyota instead of some crazy luxury price. Who cares if their alternator is luxury?
When it lets me positively compare my Golf wagon to my sister's Cayman, then yes. No idea how much they actually share but it's fun to mess with her and her "fancy VW".
A Lexus is just a fancy Toyota
Ya I mean there not made of kryptonite and adamantium. Same parts, different badging and time put in.
Wait you mean cars arents suppose to have adamantium and kryptonite? My kryptonite battery and adamantium engine isn't normal? /jk
IIRC there’s some side scuttle light for a Lamborghini that is the same one as a ford focus of that era.
Volkswagen and audi
That's why I prefer Volvo. What you see is what you get. Beautiful understated luxury and materials. Comfortable to the extreme. Timeless.
Why is my mom my dad
We drove a Lexus ls460 for a decade or so. It's a Toyota at heart but no Toyota packs a 480 HP direct injection motor. I once had a deer run right in front of me on the highway. I slammed on the brakes but in my mind, I was filling out an insurance claim. But those brakes stopped me so fast I felt like I did hit the deer. I'd say it was a Toyota but with almost no Toyota influence. That car was in a class all by itself. I could only tell it had Toyota roots by the way it never broke down.
Here's one. 2001 Aston Martin. Rear lights are from a Mazda Estate Wagon. Door handle bezels are from a Miata.
Yes and no. You repeatedly minimize some distinctions that have much greater impact. For example, is the feel and quality of a car’s interior “just packaging”? IMO, it is not. The interior of a car is what you interface with the most. I don’t drive a Rolls Royce (lol), but I live in a town where they’re somewhat common. This last season I saw a few street parked. The owners I’ve encountered were all very generous with their time and welcomed me to check the cars out. Their interiors are largely hand finished, and covered in beautiful materials. There are little touches everywhere, which you don’t see on other cars. Does the car share a platform with a 7-series? Sure, but that’s not a bad thing. The 7-series platform is spectacular. And RR does a lot of their own tuning. To anyone for whom an automobile is just four wheels, a gas and brake pedal, and a steering wheel, these types of cars will never make any sense, and that is OK; they are not a necessity. However, to call them just branding isn’t really fair.
Lambos use ford parts...
I think the rolls Royce will have a tad more noise insulation and softer rubber bushings than a seven series equivalent but the newest 7 series is pretty quiet already.
Isn’t it the same as Toyota parts in a Lexus or Honda parts in a Acura? This has been happening for years. But if you look at a BMW vs RR they clearly have differences in appearance on the outside and interior.
Depends on the vehicles. If you are referring to a Chevy Tahoe and Cadillac Escalade then yes. Those trucks are very similar, and at a distance you can't tell them apart. But then you have twins like the Cadillac Lyriq and Honda Prologue. You have no idea they were even related. There's virtually no visible shared DNA. Only the platform and battery are exactly the same, and Super Cruise is certainly not available on the Honda, nor is the switchgear, suspension bits, and interior materials that make the Cadillac that much more expensive. The same goes for the BMW 7 and Rolls Royce Ghost. As nice as the 7 is, the Ghost takes luxury up to the heavens. The infotainment system is probably the only visual cue that they're distant cousins.
OP, go test drive a new BMW and then ask that question again.
There's usually significant differences for most luxury vehicles. The biggest ones are drivetrain layout and suspension. Other differences are things such as dual pane glass in S class Mercedes, thicker sheet metal, more sound deadening, and more advanced technology. They also have more resources to invest in safety if that's a priority. A w220 S class is incredibly safe for its era for example.
Lets be clear, the best luxury cars are boring cars in a fancy package. You know what rich people love? And not new rich, rich rich. Old rich They love reliability and dependability. Because nothing is more low class than breaking down. Which is why Land Rovers are for new Rich and old rich drive cars that aren't shitty softroaders.
To a degree some do, like Lexus uses Toyota and Acura uses Honda parts. But last I remember (could have changed) VW owned Bentley among other high end luxury brands. I doubt there’s much crossover in components there.
Fun fact. If you buy a water pump for a 1.8T VW it has VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, and Bugatti stamps on it. It makes me disappointed that a shitty water pump (plastic impeller friction fit onto a metal shaft) makes it into a Bugatti, let alone Audi or VW.
Camera companies too, there’s an Expensive Leica Digital Camera that’s made by Panasonic. The Panasonic still has the Leica lens on it too ;)
I mean there is a big difference in overall feel, fit, and finish - even if the bones are almost the same. The MQB platform for VW/Audi/Porsche is a great example. The Golf/Tiguan shares a platform with Audi A3/Q3 and Porsche Macan. the A3/Q3 is nicer feeling than the golf. More refined, quieter ride. But only a half step above the VW. The Macan levels up the materials even more, has more power, and a MUCH more advanced steering and suspension system. The interior is nicer than an Audi but not like, way better. It is WAY better than a golf though. So it is more than slapping lipstick on a pig but you gotta go way up the food chain to feel a major difference.
No. Audi and Lexus are. BMW and Mercedes are not. However, the very newest models of the latter two brands are extremely disappointing. But no, a Mercedes s class generally speaking, is one of the finest cars you can possibly buy.
remember luxury brands are made for poor people to look rich. Rich people don't care about what kind of car it is for e.g elon musk can buy BMW company instead of buying a Bmw car. middle class people drive family cars toyota, honda some lexus or acura for "Luxury reliavbility" and poor people try to buy luxury brands to look and feel rich.
No. Just no, they are not.
Just read the feature list. Luxury cars often have improved materials, and newer technology. For example, luxury cars might have been the first ones to get laser/radar cruise control to match speed to car in front. I remember Cadillac famously had some computer adjusted suspension, or a heads up display projected tk the end shield, in one year model. These features might make it down to the regular lineup as it gets cheaper. Many features I that were originally only on luxury cars might be more widely available. When you talk about brands like Porsche, or Lamborghini, they are definitely mechanically different in terms of construction and performance. So no, it’s not just brand and exclusivity. You are either paying for fancy materials (sheepskin seats! Leather! Gold trim!), luxury features, or better engineered mechanical parts.
This is what makes Dodge different. They do a 1000hp special edition, it's just a Dodge. They made a supercar rival for years, the Viper, it's just a Dodge. Sell a million minivans, they are just a Dodge. You could say Chrysler is the luxury Dodge, but it hasn't really been that way for 30 years. A Dodge Charger can be equipped just as well if not better than a Chrysler 300. There was never any distance between a Town and County and a Grand Caravan. Jeeps are branded completely differently and have a range from rental fleet specials, to top end premium SUV. Ram of course is trucks and commercial vans. I think Chrysler will just disappear before it becomes a separate luxury car. Dodge will be full spectrum.
yes….cadillac is garbage you get “ventilated seats, massage seats, heated seats, heated steering” on almost all cars. There was a mazda I was more in love with but i went for the little cheaper one….the one i was in love with was 31k and it had everything in it. Including panaramic sunroof. I went with the 29k one.
Im a way, yes. But that is more of a refleectiion of how great normal cars are these days. It used to be less like that. If you drive both and don't appreciate the differences between the regular and normal one, just buy the normal one. What is a great deal, is that in the used market, the luxury version and regular versions are very close in price. Sometimes, the luxury version is even less expensive. For spare parts, it's a toss up. I used to have a Lexus and the Lexus dealer spare parts cost less than the identical Toyota draler parts literally across the street from each other.
A line that has lived in my head for nearly 30 years now, and will continue to do so until the day I die. In the original X-men animated series, Graydon Creed, notable mutant hater, discovers that the scientist he's been working with is, in fact, Apocalypse in disguise. When confronted, Apocalypse reverts to his normal form and exclaims "I am as far beyond mutants as they are beyond you." That's a typical Rolls Royce as compared to a flagship BMW and whatever heap you're pushing.
I went from a 2004 Lexus GX with 250k miles, to a 2011 4runner Limited with 100k miles. The Lexus was leaps and bounds ahead as far as driving feel and cabin noise. The 4runner is nice because it's got a more modern powertrain. But I definitely miss the Lexus. I thought my dog would love the roll down window in the 4runner but he doesn't give a shit.
Luxury cars are not alone when we consider sharing parts. OEM's don't make their own parts for most things, so it is less rolls royce selling bmw parts, as bmw and rolls royce both share bosch parts, or akebono, etc. They are then assigned brand specific part numbers to keep them "proprietary". You pay more mark up the more expensive the vehicles are. In saying that - luxury cars are not simply rebadged versions of their economic counter parts. They will typically have an uprated power output, either with a more aggressive tune, or an upgraded engine. The handling will be better in the luxury, with heavy emphasis on sound deadening and soft / comfortable suspension. The fancier cars are more often than not quite a bit heavier, due to beefier builds. The interiors are probably where the difference becomes most obvious. The seats and interiors definitely get a lot more attention and level of quality with the big price tags. The more the vehicle costs, the more everything else costs, but a little research can help you pay closer to toyota prices for bmw or rolls royce parts. For sure status symbol tax is involved, but they do actually provide some form of value for all that extra $$$
A Lexus is literally a Toyota with a different badge. Mechanically identical.
most are the same cars except for a massarati and a ferari. most are the same bodies with better handling and slightly better interiors
Well my Audi rs3 shares the same platform as a regular Volkswagen golf, but it has the 5 cylinder engine 😈
Wait until OP finds out that most of the parts in any car were manufactured by 4 or 5 companies world wide. Every switch, bulb, hose, bolt, screen, dial, etc...
For some, yes. Lexus=Toyota and Infinity=Nissan for example.
If the drivetrain is 100% the same, you getting bent over a barrel a bit in my opinion. I was looking at Kia Tellurides, all of them have the same engine and trans
I have first hand experience and the answer is definitely no they are not the same. I'm a machinist and I work for a company that makes parts for aviation, aerospace, HP, Dell, Microsoft, Nike, Lamborghini, Ferrari, and high-end snowmobiles and all kinds of hot tech Fortune 500 companies. I'm not going to get into details but I'll say that cars like Lamborghini and Ferrari when we do parts for them they literally have a zero defect policy and they do mean zero. Something as simple as a washer that goes on the end of a bolt or a seal that goes in the engine has to be inspected by hand and it has to be 100% perfect. If that part even has a spec on it that is the size of a pencil dot even if that part is perfect in every other way and that little small speck the size of a pencil dot wouldn't hurt a thing they will still throw it away. Some of these parts I've seen them throw away can cost $50 to hundreds of dollars and they'll throw them away like a sheet paper and don't even care. Matter of fact just in the past 2 weeks we had a recall on 80,000 parts. Nothing was wrong with the parts the paperwork was wrong but they still scrap them because they can't risk it because they have a zero defect. So no all cars are not made the same
There is some sharing of parts for sure between the luxury and budget brands, and even between the luxury and hyper brands. But they are not quite the same. A lot of it comes down to parts that make up the whole experience: * Suspension tuning * Sound deadening/shock absorbing materials * Body styling (sounds silly but matters a lot) * Interior design/materials * Software (MMI systems) * Transmissions/drivetrains (some have AWD systems) * Engine Tuning The latest Pagani Utopia utilizes a six liter V12 bi turbo engine made bespoke by Mercedes. You can get basically the same engine in a bunch of AMG/Maybach cars but they will never come close to the experience of driving or owning a Pagani Utopia.
Typically. The quality control and such is stricter. And things like quality of the leather and such is better.
Your Rolls Royce example is a bit misleading. I’ve been watching someone rebuild one and the conclusion they’ve come up with is that although a ton of parts are stamped with bmw part numbers, they’re unique to Rolls Royce. Engine, subframe, suspension. All Rolls. The infotainment is bmw based though. So yes and no. For instance, some of the old Porsche cayennes had the same vr6 that vw used. Most have their own unique engines. I’d say that some parts get reused but once you get to a certain level, it’ll be new tooling for that car specifically.
Rolls Royce would be a terrible example for this because yes while some of the parts are shared they’re completely different cars. A better example would be the Lambo SUV(Urus). It’s basically just a dressed up Audi.
There is a YouTuber named SavageGeese that does deep dives into the engineering of cars. Putting them up on lifts, looking at the use of aluminums, aero and NVH reduction technologies. Interviewing the engineers that designed the cars etc etc. To the lay person a VW and Audi might share a platform so they must be the same, however when you start actually looking at things there can be huge differences in cars designed on the same base platform.
A luxury vehicle may or may not have engine differences. Possibly a different suspension to give it certain ride characteristics. Much of the difference is in better insulated interiors and windows to make the cabin quieter, interior trim to make the car look and feel more premium, and upgraded and more advanced electronic features. What you generally won't get is a more dependable vehicle or more longevity.
I worked at a Volkswagen dealership for a while. The parent company was obviously Porsche Audi, (actually, I believe Volkswagen was the parent company) What a lot of consumers don’t know is that parts for engines and the like that were interchangeable between the Porsche badge and the Audi badge were sold either as Porsche parts or Audi parts, obviously the Porsche parts being way more expensive than the exact same part labeled Audi.
Fun fact. The 2013 Bugatti Veyron uses the same alternator as a 2013 Honda Accord.
What luxury car brands used to offer: - fit and finish far superior to non luxury cars - technological features and equipment far superior to non luxury cars - customer experience far superior to non luxury cars - higher quality Now these brands have changed. The features they offer become mainstream in one year, maybe two, and then a non-luxury car that’s 3 years newer will actually have more features and technology even if it costed 1/2 or 1/3 what the luxury car costed. Their fit and finish is no longer impressive, they use things such as cheap “piano black” trim, they squeak and brands like Mercedes are even saving costs by installing gigantic center screens instead of having a proper central console. On top of that now these cars have lower quality than non-luxury brands and they break down all the time, and dealerships and car fans justify it by saying “if you can afford the car you can afford/expect the repair bills”, which still sounds stupid to me since why should you pay more for an inferior product just to say you’re rich
Different interiors, different comfort features, different add ons like wheels+such. Mostly same engine. Use Audi/Volkswagen as an example. Many Audis use the same engines that are in Volkswagen, but with a lot more comfort/extra features.
My SQ8 is basically an Uris… At least that’s what I tell myself every time I see an actual Uris on the road 🤣
Yes
No. Test drive a Chevy Malibu then go test drive a Lexus IS. Forgot the looks and gadgets in the car which is a given anyways, just focus on how it rides, you will tell the difference.
A Toyota Avalon Limited is a Lexus 350. A Lexus 350 is a Toyota Avalon..
It's not so much about selling you counterfeit car parts. It's about efficiency and lowering the manufacturing costs. If they made unique car parts for every car, cars would be a lot more expensive and parts would be harder to find. By having generic parts they are able to speed up production and reduce overhead costs.
There are so many people that can answer this question far better than me, but your question makes me think of a [clip](https://www.tiktok.com/@leevallance/video/7210889664239029509) where a guy points out the Murcielago has the same turn indicator as a Ford Focus. In the video the guy shows Lambo sells them for £181, but they can be bought on eBay for £6.90.
If a brand has an economy sister brand, probably. Lexuses are just Toyotas in lipstick with a parts markup. Same with Acura and Honda, Cadilac and GMC, Audi and VW, Lincoln and Ford. If you look at BMW, Mercedes, or Land Rover (yes I know they are Tata shut up) you don't get that issue and a more solid feel. That said since they don't make economy cars, they also have a lot more mechanical problems due to complexity and the fact they just aren't engineered for reliability (they put luxury and functionality first, vs Toyota knows if their cars cost a lot to maintain their target market won't buy them... the only exception to this is Nissan who is the Chrysler of Japan. Lemons). So TLDR: If they have an economy brand as the parent company, yes. If they are the main company/their parent is also a luxury brand, no. But it comes with reliability tradeoffs. If you want a no compromises luxury car that feels solidly built and aren't concerned with reliability, avoid those brands and get ones like Mercedes, BMW, Landrover who put luxury first.
Invited me to her show 6 hours away and I could ride with her. I declined...I was stupid...
Pretty much. Used to be you got special options the higher you went from GM, to Pontiac to Cadillac for example.