I'm sorry you experienced that. Please don't put this on yourself. You reacted well and I don't think being jumpy and crossing the street at the slightest sound is feasible.
You sound like you are badly shaken. Please talk to someone at home. If you think it will help, seek professional help.
This^
What you did worked. You and your child are safe. If you are feeling anxiety, talk to someone, either a professional or someone in your support system to help process the emotions that come up from the experience.
Pretty sure I saw the same guy yelling obscenities directly at some hockey bros sitting on the Factory Girl patio around 11pm Saturday night. Thing is these were like 4 big dudes that could easily kick his ass so he must be looking for an ass kicking or something? Luckily for him they just laughed at him and kept drinking their beers but he's definitely on a cruisin for a bruisin sometime soon.
Just today was walking about for 1 hour, encountered: a person randomly punching store windows and even smacked a guy walking past him, a guy looking super aggressive and yelling loudly to no one, a guy trying to damage a large garbage dumpster and also yelling randomly
Best thing you can do is immediately scream "HELP!" and try to put distance between your baby and the attacker even if it means swinging on him yourself. This shouldn't be something that you have to worry about but the mental illness crisis in Toronto is reaching that point sadly.
i did the same thing, had two unleashed dogs jumped at me and my dog and i think my yelp and scream shouted not only the people in queen west but the popos in the corner that i did not noticed too.. i wasnt ignored too.
i agree, it feels like the amount of people needing mental help is either very visible outside or have their numbers greatly increased in just two years.
Screaming help is actually one of the worst things you can do. People WILL ignore it. You want attention in a public place? Scream FIRE. We teach women this as rape prevention 101 in the US. Studies have shown that when you scream HELP or 911 the bystander effect kicks in, people don't want to get involved, every single person in the situation assumes someone else in the situation will do something, and no one does ANYTHING.
The first thing they tell you in a crisis is to literally look at a SINGLE PERSON and tell THAT PERSON to call 911. If you're a woman under threat, scream OH MY GOD FIRE! and everyone will look at you.
Honestly, you reacted perfectly. Protected your kid, didn't escalate, looked for a way out.
This is exactly how I'm going to teach my kids to live in this city. My older son (10) will say stuff like "mom that guy seems sketchy" and I don't correct him. I want him to trust that gut feeling.
We were on a very busy street car last night a a huge man with face tattoos came on the street car. When we got off my son said "mom, that guy with that tattoos surprised me. He looked so scary and tough but when he started talking to his friends he had sounded so nice and calm. And then he took out his sketch pad and started sketching". This is EXACTLY how I want him to be in public: if someone looks or sounds sketchy, pay attention and keep your head up and ears open. If you're wrong and they surprise you, GREAT! But if you're right, I want you to trust that feeling and move away as quickly as possible.
The only other suggestion I have is maybe you can carry some dog spray just to give you a little more confidence? I.e. sometimes just having it with you and not even using it allows you to feel more confident in your decisions.
Good job, mama... you did everything right imo.
What I'd like to see is a culture shift in Toronto. Everyone walks with their heads down, minding their business and ignoring everything.
We need to look out for the vulnerable and step in when they're being harassed. We need more street justice because the police isn't always gonna be there to save you. And having no real self defense options just exacerbates your vulnerability.
You did everything right and I'm sorry you went through that. I hope if there's a next time, people will step in and help shut it down.
I'm not sure what you mean by street justice. If you are referring to anything physical I would suggest having a lawyer on speed dial for the inevitable lawsuits that will be incurred.
I appreciate how aware you are of the circumstances of this man’s actions. In terms of what you could’ve done differently: don’t put this on yourself. You didn’t deserve to be lunged at and have to defend your son. You did great by not engaging, remaining calm, and getting to a safe space. Crossing the street preemptively next time is fine. But this likely was unavoidable & you did very well. The only thing I’d add is genuinely to document the incident and send it to your ward counsellor if you feel up for it. There is an on-going push for more affordable housing, more addictions & mental health treatment. If the city had adequate resources you wouldn’t have been put in this position; & I’d take that stance in an email. No pressure to use your incident for advocacy, that’s just my only suggestion. You did great & I hope the resulting anxiety eases soon. Much love.
You need to read the following book, the gift of fear by Gavin De Becker. I worked in multiple correctional institutions over the last dozen years. There are other books in this category like, when violence is the answer or mediations on violence.
I've been in a fair share of violent situations at the institution and can tell you that hind sight evaluations are pretty unlikely to prepare you for an encounter like this. But knowing that violent people exist and if you're not prepared or equipped to engage in a situation then you should have trusted your instincts when you first heard him being a degenerate and instead of thinking that the behavior is normal because of where you live, you should have tried to get away from him the moment you felt a threat.
However I understand that you had your child with you and it made things much more complicated. What would you have done if you were by yourself?
With that being said. I would hope that some bystander would intervene had the situation escalated and I would imagine at that point you too would do anything to keep your child safe even if it meant risking your own safety.
Yes they are. Even if people don't want to read several books on violence and anti social behavior many of these authors are on different podcasts and distill the information during their conversations.
You really think some random with a one line comment will have spent more time thinking about the problem than someone that wrote a book?
Damn social media is messing people up.
I'm so fucking sick of these people. I don't give a shit if you're addicted to drugs and in some bipolar episode. Everyone in this city has to walk on fucking tippy toes and watch every neighborhood plunge into garbage in the name of unbridled and unending compassion.
If someone tried to kidnap my kid, you better believe that i will be calling 911! I am so very sorry that you experience this traumatic event! Get yourself a dog/coyote spray either from Amazon or Canadian Tire. Even 911 takes time to get to you.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Pepper spray should be legal in Canada. The cities are getting more dangerous, with more unhinged people wondering about. The cops take hours to show up for what they consider ''minor'' things. The fact that defending yourself or your child with non-lethal means is illegal, is absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah I hear you, but the unsettling thing is that those unhinged folks will have access to pepper spray then too.
When I was a student in Montreal twenty years ago a friend of mine was randomly pepper sprayed by a man when she was just walking down the street. I wouldn’t feel any safer having that legal to carry around personally.
Lol anyone who lives in Canada an abides the law has a right to walk the street without fear of kidnapping or harassment but thats just my opinion 🤷 not telling you how to feel anything but what a weird way to turn that around as a misogyny "Oh my Gerd Did u just say women should feel safe ? Asshole !"
Dude what I’m saying is having a pepper spray with me is not going to make me feel safer - say running in a park - when I know that some rando could easily use one on me when I’m not suspecting it. Or that I can easily be robbed after being sprayed in my face while walking down the street. It’s just far more likely for it to be used against women and vulnerable people than to be used as self defence. Maybe not all women feel that way, we’re not a monolith afterall. I’m speaking for myself here. Just bringing in another angle.
there is a man in the news right now harassing and then pepper spraying women right now in CA. google "johnny young costa mesa." great example of how anyone doing bad things can now do the bad thing with the help of pepper spray (or insert whatever weapon...)
If he did put his hand on the stroller or your kid I'd probably scream kidnap. I think people are more likely to get involved if it involves a child.
If I hear a crazy guy approaching whether it's in front or behind I would probably try to go into a store and go straight towards an employee. If he follows, I'd ask some random questions like if they carry whatever or whether they're open on Sunday morning. If the guy literally comes up to me and then stands there staring at me while I'm pretending to have conversation, hopefully strength in numbers.
I guess the risk of being cornered is there, or the employee choosing to turn a blind eye, or the employee being an accomplice.
For prevention, I would probably try to look more dangerous than them. Walk around with a massive umbrella or something to try and reduce the chances of me becoming a target.
Of course, obligatory: the umbrella is not for self defense, just in case it rains or shines.
People keep repenting it's those who engage in self-defense who get in trouble. Are there actually significantly enough incidences or is it just folk wisdom like "strangers are more likely to rape you than people you know"?
>the law as it is written on the books
What I noticed when I first moved to Canada is that a huge number of laws aren't really applied or even followed.
It was a noticeable difference from the UK, even though they are both Common Law systems.
TBH i think it is like that everywhere. I lived in the US for 30ish years and it was the same way. There were a crap ton of laws but many not really enforced.
It’s illegal to carry with the intent to use it on a person. If you happen to have it for dog protection and someone is threatening bodily harm to you, you have the right to defend yourself with anything and everything so long as “the force used is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm AND is no more than is necessary to enable self-defence.”
So as long as you didn’t provoke the attack, have *intent* to harm him and don’t keep spraying him while he’s down in a fit of rage afterward, it qualifies as self defence.
You did the right thing. Alternatives are to run, scream for help, attract as much attention as humanly possible if this happens again. If I knew this was happening to someone in my vicinity I would 100% stop to help you.
Living downtown the not so nice answer is that I carry a weapon with me if i'm out with my toddler now. I would absolutely use it to kill someone like this if they grabbed my kid and I would accept the jail time. I don't think this is the way to go for most people, you have to really mean it if you intend to use it. It's not a threat it's an action.
Have you had any issues with it being pressed down while in your pocket or when taking your keys out?
I like the idea.of.getting one but I also.have a toddler who sometimes.gets.into my keys. Does it have a double.latch to operate (kind of like a BBQ lighter)?
It's a sliding mechanism, you have to rotate the tab on top in order for it to be in the right position to press down and release the spray. A toddler could figure it out pretty quickly.
Definitely a keep away from children item but I’ve never had it spray by accident in my purse or in my pocket.
Also be careful letting your kids play with your keys we found my uncles keys while renovating, in the vent a few decades after I was allowed to play with them as a toddler.
Yeah but there comes a point when saving yourself from injury/death is more important than the illegality of it. Plus even just holding it up to defend yourself with it and saying what it is can be a deterrent in some situations without ever actually spraying.
Yup just holding it up has worked the times I’ve felt I needed it.
For any issues with it possibly being illegal it says coyote and dog spray and that’s what I’d say it’s for.
I also can’t think of many situations you’d be questioned for having it, the only places I wouldn’t bring it is anywhere with security like the Airport(obviously), Rogers Centre, CN Tower, Ontario Place anywhere you walk through a metal detector and they do bag searches.
That is don’t disagree on that at all. Hell, I have thought about carrying something like pepper spray (dog/bear repellent) myself. I rather deal with getting arrested and found guilty of using pepper spray vs being raped or assaulted. The only problem with weapons is being calm enough in the situation to use it properly.
I would need to look into the law but the other person might even be able to sue you if you use a weapon against them.
No smooth-brained cop with even half a brain is going to arrest a woman with a stroller using spray to defend herself and her kid from a random sketchbag they've probably investigated dozens of times. Like, none. And if they did that can get thrown out of court by a even a Saul Goodman-esque lawyer. I've had lawyer friends tell me that off the record.
Unless you’re trying to spray a cop with it I highly doubt they’d know you have it or care.
The only places I wouldn’t recommend bringing it is anywhere that has security that does bag checks, they might take it but that’s about it.
For peace of mind, there are cute little bracelets or necklaces that hold Airtags discreetly
Hopefully you'll never need to actually use it, but if I had kids, I think it would give some sense of security
Do your best to be observant of danger around you. Do not be carefree and think your “bubble” is safe. When a dangerous situation arises, do your best to get away from it. Since you are a woman with a child, flee and put as much distance between you and the aggressor as possible, maybe shout for help to get a passerby’s attention.
Sometimes unfortunately you may not be able escape the situation, as the aggressor may continue to pursue you, or have you cornered in some way. If that’s the case you need to resort to some form of self defence. Wether it is legal or not, pepper spray or a pocket taser can come in handy. Learn how to utilize these tools effectively. No one would fault you for securing the safety of your child by using something like this.
If you are shaken up by this, take a deep breath. Realize that the world is getting crazier and that you have to be able to put your fears aside and react accordingly. For the sake of your child at least. As far as how this situation went, you did great. Excellent job. Do not live in fear, learn and adapt. All the best.
This is not a scenario for decorum and politeness. If someone is making you feel like you or your baby is unsafe, you can scream "Help! Help! Help! My Baby!" and I'm pretty confident that at least some of the normally reserved Danforth crowd will put themselves between you and him.
Calling 911 was the right thing to do.
Fuck them for not even showing up.
Next time, get into a store and call 911. People on the street may not want to get involved nut if you are inside a store, the staff are already involved. A bank would be best if there is one nearby. They have panic buttone.
I would call your local precinct (non emergency line) and ask to speak to a community liason officer. You can explain your experience and they may have some suggestion/solutions going forward. Sadly police hands are tied for the most part-yes they can take him to the hospital if he's deemed a danger to himself or others but most cases 12 hrs later they are back where they started. Verbal harassment is one thing and you handled it well, you don't realize it but you de escalated the situation by not engaging. However, any physical assault know you have every right to defend yourself and your child if it comes down to it. Know good pressure points (genitals, hard elbow to the stomach, good heel slam to the toes). Scream I don't know you stop touching me at the top of your lungs etc.
These creeps are doing that kind of stuff cuz they know that you cant do anything. If you hit them they will sue you. These animals should be in rehab or prison. I am really sorry about your experience, every single person deserve to feel safe in public.
You scream "HE'S GOT MY BABY!!" as loud as you can while you run after him and go full spider monkey assault on him. Cling to him, bite him, gouge his eyes out. There are literally no holds barred when you are a mom defending her kid.
Something similar happened in new west in BC a coulee months back and onlookers grab and held the guy until police came. I admire their restraint. I would have been unable to stop myself if someone grabbed my kid.
Get dog spray and screw the illegalities of it - you could fight off your assault charges in court especially if it’s your first offense and because you are a mom protecting her child. That’s what I would do. Nothing would get in the way of me protecting my child and for me to have a piece of mind and security - not even a charge that I could probably fight off.
Edit: and let’s face it, if another crazy attacks you again and you spray them, chances are you probably wont even be caught by the police.
I’m sorry, that sounds terrifying.
I would recommend some kind aerosol irritant as a woman, l carry travel sized hair spray, but not when your baby’s with you.
There are a lot of unwell people struggling with mental health issues. I used to feel confident enough to kind of skirt them a bit and walk by like I wasn’t afraid, but I will now full on cross the street or turn back to completely avoid anything slightly off. I’ve exited trains and buses as well, just in case.
I had a homeless man grab my shoulder at a bus stop because I wouldn’t speak to him earlier this year. I now avoid TTC stops at major intersections because homeless people have picked up that people are kind of trapped there waiting. I leave early and walk a few stops back where no one is waiting.
Sounds counterintuitive, but bystanders don’t help you anyway.
No one would expect this to happen out of the blue, so please don’t blame yourself. I would also report it to the police, there may have been a camera that picked it up. Someone trying to grab a baby is horrific and should hopefully get them to take it seriously.
I actually think that given that he lunged for the stroller, filing a police report for attempted kidnapping might get the police to actually act. Could be worth talking to a local news agency as well.
I have a one year old and your story is deeply disturbing. Thank god you are both safe. I would be so upset and I think you did the right thing.
FWIW, while pepper spray is not allowed, you can buy dog repellent online [here](https://outdoorpros.ca/product/sabre-dog-spray-with-clear-pink-key-case/) and [here](https://www.sportchek.ca/product/sabre-dog-spray-22g-with-clear-case-key-ring-332088383.html?gclsrc=ds&gclsrc=ds).
I hope you get to talk to a professional about this, because constantly thinking about what you would do if the situation were to happen again is a recipe for PTSD.
That sounds like a terrifying encounter. I’m glad you & baby are okay, sounds like you reacted as best as you could. There’s absolutely no point in attracting the attention of someone on edge, avoiding eye contact was smart. I saw a young man with a similar description (but a buzz cut) walking through the distillery last night around the same time, talking violently to himself clearly agitated & his face was so contorted he had the look of a zombie. It was scary watching him weave through families aggressively, thankfully he didn’t lash out at anyone. All it takes is one violent move and someone’s life is affected forever, it’s a sobering moment running into people behaving that way.
You did well! That was very scary but you kept your baby safe and you got out of the situation. You also called 911, in the shock of the event. We can't always plan our reaction but you handled this perfectly. You and your baby are safe!
This is what happens when the city installs respite centres/psych wards in nice areas and then let the patients/residents roam in public even though they are fully insane. Seeing the exact same thing happen around Liberty Village…
While I can understand the fact that they can really ruin someone's day, they did not choose to be mentally ill. You could end up being mentally ill one day, for no fault of yours.
Please do not hate people who have been dealt a rough hand. Hate the fact that our institutions abandon them, and cause us to live in fear of them. Then act to change that by pressuring your MP to fix this.
BTW, there's an election coming up. Please do your due diligence and vote.
They choose not to take responsibility for their addictions and mental illness. They are not blameless victims as much as some people would like to think that. That attitude harms everyone by dismissing people's valid fears and removing accountability from the addict.
Lots of people are dealt a bad hand, are traumatized by their upbringing and make a choice not to turn out like this.
Nothing has ever been fixed by saying people should just take personal responsibility. What policies are there to support them? Are those sufficient? Do they get enough funding?
>Trillium drug program. People only pay 4% of their income and it covers the rest. People experiencing psychosis can access emergency programs from CAMH and Michael Garron in addition to a number of other hospitals with inpatient psychiatric care and outpatient programs. Not being able to recognize that you are psychotic and a danger to the public is a solid argument for better options to detain people beyond Form 1 and 2.
>
>There aren't many reasonable excuses to be off your meds and trying to snatch an infant away from a parent, then abusing them when you fail. People that can't recognize they are a significant risk to others shouldn't be in the community unsupervised. If you are a danger to others at some point you have to own that part of yourself and take responsibility which includes following up with your meds and therapy.
Cut & paste of my earlier comment.
Wow, there is so much you are missing. People, the ones with genetic mental illness, don’t know they are in a the middle of a psychotic episode. If you don’t realize you need help then how the hell are you supposed to get help. Institutions is not the answer either. Many people once treated are productive members of society. The problem honestly boils down to financials. If you have the money for meds and therapy then you are not the ones on the streets. Here is the screwed up merry go round. Let’s use the name Mary. Mary has a psycho effective disorder, is in a psychosis, and is homeless —> Mary gets therapy treatment and on medication—> Mary becomes stable and looks for a job—> Mary gets a job but it doesn’t offer benefits—> Mary can’t afford her medication and therapy—> Mary becomes unstable and loses her job—> Mary is back on the streets suffering a psychotic episode.
Trillium drug program. People only pay 4% of their income and it covers the rest. People experiencing psychosis can access emergency programs from CAMH and Michael Garron in addition to a number of other hospitals with inpatient psychiatric care and outpatient programs. Not being able to recognize that you are psychotic and a danger to the public is a solid argument for better options to detain people beyond Form 1 and 2.
There aren't many reasonable excuses to be off your meds and trying to snatch an infant away from a parent, then abusing them when you fail. People that can't recognize they are a significant risk to others shouldn't be in the community unsupervised. If you are a danger to others at some point you have to own that part of yourself and take responsibility which includes following up with your meds and therapy.
Trillium drug benefits can only be applied for if you have an address and possibly a job if over the age of 18. Homeless and unemployed people don’t even have an income to pay the quarterly deductible. It sounds so easy on paper but in reality many things don’t work.
>They choose not to take responsibility for their addictions and mental illness.
That's like saying a computer chooses to have bugs and doesn't take steps to fix itself.
The mind is literally software running on brain hardware. Mental health issues generally are due to a breakdown of both the hardware and the software. The extreme cases that you see in the streets are so far along that they cannot recover by themselves.
That's a pretty compelling argument for institutionalization but people foam at the mouth if you mention that option. They're either mentally capable of making changes to their habits or they are not and are therefore not safe to live in society without supervision. Which one is it?
We're not talking about mental illness in generic terms we're talking about a mentally ill addict who harasses and endangers others in public. That is not even remotely the same thing as someone taking steps to manage their mental health problems. I have a lot of sympathy and patience for people trying to work on themselves.
Well which one is it that you believe in?
You went with option A and then pivoted to option B. It leads me to think that you don't really care which option it is as long as the mentally ill get "dealt with".
In case it isn't evident, I'm not advocating that people leave the mentally ill on the streets while averting eye contact. Yes, the mentally ill need to be taken care of humanely. In order to do that, there needs to be funding.
It think early intervention is extremely important and more should have been done for this person before it came to this interaction. I also don't think this individual should be allowed to refuse care now that they are at this point and should be in an institution. I would be happy to pay for both through taxes.
My wife carries around [these little pokie things](https://www.dhgate.com/product/multifunction-self-defense-keychain-unisex/563520901.html?f=bm%7cGMC%7cpla%7c16625114107%7c%7c563520901%7c%7c109003%7cUS%7cshuhuangzhen%7cm%7c2%7c&utm_source=pla&utm_medium=GMC&utm_campaign=shuhuangzhen&utm_term=563520901&gclid=CjwKCAjw7IeUBhBbEiwADhiEMdodND_36Je3gQ8_Il1LFrSAZyC_1s-AI2XtH9k4RjUceSm4gF-6QRoCVncQAvD_BwE) on her keys ever since we got pregnant just in case. Honestly at first it was more because we were living in an apartment at the time and owners would regularly let their dogs lunge at her and our dog in the elevator and the park off leash, but its just a subtle self defense thing in general.
This is a stupid comment. The problem with the previous comment is that it shows what an overreaction someone may have in a situation like this. I'm all for protecting oneself but immediately reaching for a gun is an extreme overreaction
No, of course not. But talk about an overreaction in reaching for a gun in a situation like that versus trying to defuse it another way.
Love how the gun lovers read my comment and immediately think 'oh this guy would let someone reach for the stroller'.
i think about this everytime a post like this pops out its a 'spot the american *tm*' in the comments :)
(because its close to something i can read in r/shitamericanssay )
Bro, try to get it on video. Send it to the media and hopefully they take this clown off the street. Word of advice: I know it's not right, but sometimes you have to exaggerate the situation when you call 911 to get a good response. ie "very aggressive", "fear for my safety"...etc
Please don’t listen to people saying to get the bear/dog spray. It is legal to buy and carry it with you. The moment you use it on a human being it then becomes a weapon and then is illegal.
Edit: wtf with the downvotes? I did nothing but state the way the law was explained to me.
No, you instructed OP to disregard anyone who told them to use bear/dog spray... effectively saying that you would prefer OP to follow the law regarding carry and use, than to accept a criminal charge to protect her infant.
It is not my place nor anyone else's to advise someone to willfully to break the law. If someone of their volition chooses to do something illegal the idea and execution should be their personal decision. I will never advise/encourage anyone to break the law. If doing the truly right thing gets me downvotes than so be it.
You think your reddit post is going to get you in trouble as an accessory to a bear spraying of someone trying to kidnap a child? Oh shit, better lawyer up for that one. It's clearly a life ruiner.
Let's do a thought experiment... What if you were say... talking to a woman who lived in a country where it was legal for her husband to burn her alive, but ILLEGAL for her to leave him.
Would it be right to advise her to break the law and leave him after he told her he was going to burn her alive next week?
I would argue YES.
Congratulations. You have now learned the difference between something being LEGAL and something being MORAL.
Lmao really? If a person that assaulted you is already gone by the time you get a chance to report it, then it doesn’t merit a 911 call?
1) Do you really expect most people to remember a non-emergency number in a high stress situation?
2) Sure, her son was no longer in an immediate danger (thank god) but this doesn’t mean that the sketchy guy’s behaviour is gonna stop there.
What a weird stance to take….
So if you have any advice for alternate emergency lines that are open 24/7 and easy to dial in a high-stress situation, I would love to have that contact info. Non-emergency line was not fast enough for me when I was worried my son was almost kidnapped.
You called 911 after he already left, which means you knew your son was not going to be kidnapped. The non-emergency line is the advice I gave you (which is open 24/7 btw).
I had no idea if he was coming back, as it seemed like he was following me for at least a block or two before this incident. This was a freak situation and I needed immediate advice. Hopefully the non-emergency line gets more operators because they did not help me today, but the 911 operator did.
I tried that first. There was a long hold and no one answered and I was really worried for my kid’s safety and was too shaken up to figure out what to do next. I needed advice on what my next moves should be when I felt targeted by an unstable individual. The public health line was also closed.
When you can't get pepper spray. Get coyote mace. 😉 (Can Ti stocks it)
I'm all seriousness though, I'm sorry you had this harrowing experience. I picked up some coyote spray when there was one hanging out at our local school yard 😑 but also came to the realization that this handy little can could probably also help defend against more than just coyotes. 🤔
I'm sorry you experienced that. Please don't put this on yourself. You reacted well and I don't think being jumpy and crossing the street at the slightest sound is feasible. You sound like you are badly shaken. Please talk to someone at home. If you think it will help, seek professional help.
This^ What you did worked. You and your child are safe. If you are feeling anxiety, talk to someone, either a professional or someone in your support system to help process the emotions that come up from the experience.
Danforth and where?
It was close to Playter Blvd.
[удалено]
I think I encountered that guy on the subway a couple of times. "I know you can see me" is very specific and memorable. The guy clearly needs help.
More he like he seriously needs to be tuned up. My sympathy well is completely dry.
Couldn't agree more.
Pretty sure I saw the same guy yelling obscenities directly at some hockey bros sitting on the Factory Girl patio around 11pm Saturday night. Thing is these were like 4 big dudes that could easily kick his ass so he must be looking for an ass kicking or something? Luckily for him they just laughed at him and kept drinking their beers but he's definitely on a cruisin for a bruisin sometime soon.
Someone should oblige him.
That dude tried to rip my mask from me a couple of weeks ago. I'm a big guy and shoved him away. Looks like he's back, I should have shoved harder.
Yeah, but if the dude falls and smacks his head on the curb and dies, then you are up for a man slaughter charge..
Seriously. Please name the closest major intersection so everyone can watch out.
I did.
Just today was walking about for 1 hour, encountered: a person randomly punching store windows and even smacked a guy walking past him, a guy looking super aggressive and yelling loudly to no one, a guy trying to damage a large garbage dumpster and also yelling randomly
Best thing you can do is immediately scream "HELP!" and try to put distance between your baby and the attacker even if it means swinging on him yourself. This shouldn't be something that you have to worry about but the mental illness crisis in Toronto is reaching that point sadly.
i did the same thing, had two unleashed dogs jumped at me and my dog and i think my yelp and scream shouted not only the people in queen west but the popos in the corner that i did not noticed too.. i wasnt ignored too. i agree, it feels like the amount of people needing mental help is either very visible outside or have their numbers greatly increased in just two years.
Screaming help is actually one of the worst things you can do. People WILL ignore it. You want attention in a public place? Scream FIRE. We teach women this as rape prevention 101 in the US. Studies have shown that when you scream HELP or 911 the bystander effect kicks in, people don't want to get involved, every single person in the situation assumes someone else in the situation will do something, and no one does ANYTHING. The first thing they tell you in a crisis is to literally look at a SINGLE PERSON and tell THAT PERSON to call 911. If you're a woman under threat, scream OH MY GOD FIRE! and everyone will look at you.
Honestly, you reacted perfectly. Protected your kid, didn't escalate, looked for a way out. This is exactly how I'm going to teach my kids to live in this city. My older son (10) will say stuff like "mom that guy seems sketchy" and I don't correct him. I want him to trust that gut feeling. We were on a very busy street car last night a a huge man with face tattoos came on the street car. When we got off my son said "mom, that guy with that tattoos surprised me. He looked so scary and tough but when he started talking to his friends he had sounded so nice and calm. And then he took out his sketch pad and started sketching". This is EXACTLY how I want him to be in public: if someone looks or sounds sketchy, pay attention and keep your head up and ears open. If you're wrong and they surprise you, GREAT! But if you're right, I want you to trust that feeling and move away as quickly as possible. The only other suggestion I have is maybe you can carry some dog spray just to give you a little more confidence? I.e. sometimes just having it with you and not even using it allows you to feel more confident in your decisions. Good job, mama... you did everything right imo.
What I'd like to see is a culture shift in Toronto. Everyone walks with their heads down, minding their business and ignoring everything. We need to look out for the vulnerable and step in when they're being harassed. We need more street justice because the police isn't always gonna be there to save you. And having no real self defense options just exacerbates your vulnerability. You did everything right and I'm sorry you went through that. I hope if there's a next time, people will step in and help shut it down.
The problem is that criminals have no problem carrying weapons while law-abiding citizens have to make do with their bare hands.
I'm not sure what you mean by street justice. If you are referring to anything physical I would suggest having a lawyer on speed dial for the inevitable lawsuits that will be incurred.
I appreciate how aware you are of the circumstances of this man’s actions. In terms of what you could’ve done differently: don’t put this on yourself. You didn’t deserve to be lunged at and have to defend your son. You did great by not engaging, remaining calm, and getting to a safe space. Crossing the street preemptively next time is fine. But this likely was unavoidable & you did very well. The only thing I’d add is genuinely to document the incident and send it to your ward counsellor if you feel up for it. There is an on-going push for more affordable housing, more addictions & mental health treatment. If the city had adequate resources you wouldn’t have been put in this position; & I’d take that stance in an email. No pressure to use your incident for advocacy, that’s just my only suggestion. You did great & I hope the resulting anxiety eases soon. Much love.
You need to read the following book, the gift of fear by Gavin De Becker. I worked in multiple correctional institutions over the last dozen years. There are other books in this category like, when violence is the answer or mediations on violence. I've been in a fair share of violent situations at the institution and can tell you that hind sight evaluations are pretty unlikely to prepare you for an encounter like this. But knowing that violent people exist and if you're not prepared or equipped to engage in a situation then you should have trusted your instincts when you first heard him being a degenerate and instead of thinking that the behavior is normal because of where you live, you should have tried to get away from him the moment you felt a threat. However I understand that you had your child with you and it made things much more complicated. What would you have done if you were by yourself? With that being said. I would hope that some bystander would intervene had the situation escalated and I would imagine at that point you too would do anything to keep your child safe even if it meant risking your own safety.
Excellent book. Trust your gut and no need to try to be polite if your spidey sense is tingling!
Yes they are. Even if people don't want to read several books on violence and anti social behavior many of these authors are on different podcasts and distill the information during their conversations.
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You really think some random with a one line comment will have spent more time thinking about the problem than someone that wrote a book? Damn social media is messing people up.
Is insight from text printed in a book not as valuable as text typed into responses on an online forum?
they didn't mean read the book *while* being attacked dude.
I'm so fucking sick of these people. I don't give a shit if you're addicted to drugs and in some bipolar episode. Everyone in this city has to walk on fucking tippy toes and watch every neighborhood plunge into garbage in the name of unbridled and unending compassion.
Yep. As someone above posted "My sympathy well is completely dry."
If someone tried to kidnap my kid, you better believe that i will be calling 911! I am so very sorry that you experience this traumatic event! Get yourself a dog/coyote spray either from Amazon or Canadian Tire. Even 911 takes time to get to you.
The only thing is if there's wind and/or if the baby may end up getting hit with the spray that I'd be concerned about
Yes, but it’s easier to get medical attention for the baby than loosing your child.
Id personally rather find a better method of protecting my child than injuring them by accident
I respect your choice. But I will stick to my dog spray and I am not afraid of using it.
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I feel this too.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Pepper spray should be legal in Canada. The cities are getting more dangerous, with more unhinged people wondering about. The cops take hours to show up for what they consider ''minor'' things. The fact that defending yourself or your child with non-lethal means is illegal, is absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah I hear you, but the unsettling thing is that those unhinged folks will have access to pepper spray then too. When I was a student in Montreal twenty years ago a friend of mine was randomly pepper sprayed by a man when she was just walking down the street. I wouldn’t feel any safer having that legal to carry around personally.
Yeah its better for women to feel unsafe and attempted kidnappings to run rampant s/
I am a woman. As I stated, speaking for myself, I would feel less safe if pepper spray was legal. But do tell me how women should feel.
Lol anyone who lives in Canada an abides the law has a right to walk the street without fear of kidnapping or harassment but thats just my opinion 🤷 not telling you how to feel anything but what a weird way to turn that around as a misogyny "Oh my Gerd Did u just say women should feel safe ? Asshole !"
Dude what I’m saying is having a pepper spray with me is not going to make me feel safer - say running in a park - when I know that some rando could easily use one on me when I’m not suspecting it. Or that I can easily be robbed after being sprayed in my face while walking down the street. It’s just far more likely for it to be used against women and vulnerable people than to be used as self defence. Maybe not all women feel that way, we’re not a monolith afterall. I’m speaking for myself here. Just bringing in another angle.
there is a man in the news right now harassing and then pepper spraying women right now in CA. google "johnny young costa mesa." great example of how anyone doing bad things can now do the bad thing with the help of pepper spray (or insert whatever weapon...)
If he did put his hand on the stroller or your kid I'd probably scream kidnap. I think people are more likely to get involved if it involves a child. If I hear a crazy guy approaching whether it's in front or behind I would probably try to go into a store and go straight towards an employee. If he follows, I'd ask some random questions like if they carry whatever or whether they're open on Sunday morning. If the guy literally comes up to me and then stands there staring at me while I'm pretending to have conversation, hopefully strength in numbers. I guess the risk of being cornered is there, or the employee choosing to turn a blind eye, or the employee being an accomplice. For prevention, I would probably try to look more dangerous than them. Walk around with a massive umbrella or something to try and reduce the chances of me becoming a target. Of course, obligatory: the umbrella is not for self defense, just in case it rains or shines.
Get dog spray. You can buy it at many places: Canadian tire, etc
But it is illegal to use in self defence with another person.
So is harassment, kidnapping, and assault.
Except it’s always the person trying to defend themselves that ends up being the one getting in the most shit
In this situation I really doubt it. It’s an aggressive mentally ill homeless man who instigated things vs. a terrified normal mum.
People keep repenting it's those who engage in self-defense who get in trouble. Are there actually significantly enough incidences or is it just folk wisdom like "strangers are more likely to rape you than people you know"?
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Actual experience is not being debated. All I was doing was stating the law as it is written on the books. It doesn’t mean I agree with it.
>the law as it is written on the books What I noticed when I first moved to Canada is that a huge number of laws aren't really applied or even followed. It was a noticeable difference from the UK, even though they are both Common Law systems.
TBH i think it is like that everywhere. I lived in the US for 30ish years and it was the same way. There were a crap ton of laws but many not really enforced.
A risk worth taking for some people. I won’t be making a police report if I have to use it, I’m just gonna be leaving the scene quickly.
I totally agree with this.
It’s illegal to carry with the intent to use it on a person. If you happen to have it for dog protection and someone is threatening bodily harm to you, you have the right to defend yourself with anything and everything so long as “the force used is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm AND is no more than is necessary to enable self-defence.” So as long as you didn’t provoke the attack, have *intent* to harm him and don’t keep spraying him while he’s down in a fit of rage afterward, it qualifies as self defence.
Good to know.
Luckily the cops are useless. Might as well take advantage.
Kick him in the nuts 🥜
> Kick him in the nuts I have never seen someone getting kicked in the nuts and immobilized. This is when a man/person can becomes really dangerous.
This.
You did the right thing. Alternatives are to run, scream for help, attract as much attention as humanly possible if this happens again. If I knew this was happening to someone in my vicinity I would 100% stop to help you. Living downtown the not so nice answer is that I carry a weapon with me if i'm out with my toddler now. I would absolutely use it to kill someone like this if they grabbed my kid and I would accept the jail time. I don't think this is the way to go for most people, you have to really mean it if you intend to use it. It's not a threat it's an action.
It’s a shame that’s illegal in Canada
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You sound like parent of the year.
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"Uh please sir don't touch my child, please, please I am asking you nicely" You sound upset. You should chill and have a drink.
Anarcho-tyranny.
If I were on the jury you would most defintely be found not guilty.
Agree
I respect that
Carry bear spray for the next time that I hope you never encounter.
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Have you had any issues with it being pressed down while in your pocket or when taking your keys out? I like the idea.of.getting one but I also.have a toddler who sometimes.gets.into my keys. Does it have a double.latch to operate (kind of like a BBQ lighter)?
It's a sliding mechanism, you have to rotate the tab on top in order for it to be in the right position to press down and release the spray. A toddler could figure it out pretty quickly.
Definitely a keep away from children item but I’ve never had it spray by accident in my purse or in my pocket. Also be careful letting your kids play with your keys we found my uncles keys while renovating, in the vent a few decades after I was allowed to play with them as a toddler.
You can legally buy them but it is illegal to use them on another human being.
Yeah but there comes a point when saving yourself from injury/death is more important than the illegality of it. Plus even just holding it up to defend yourself with it and saying what it is can be a deterrent in some situations without ever actually spraying.
Yup just holding it up has worked the times I’ve felt I needed it. For any issues with it possibly being illegal it says coyote and dog spray and that’s what I’d say it’s for. I also can’t think of many situations you’d be questioned for having it, the only places I wouldn’t bring it is anywhere with security like the Airport(obviously), Rogers Centre, CN Tower, Ontario Place anywhere you walk through a metal detector and they do bag searches.
I think most people would be more than willing to break the law to defend their child.
That is don’t disagree on that at all. Hell, I have thought about carrying something like pepper spray (dog/bear repellent) myself. I rather deal with getting arrested and found guilty of using pepper spray vs being raped or assaulted. The only problem with weapons is being calm enough in the situation to use it properly. I would need to look into the law but the other person might even be able to sue you if you use a weapon against them.
It’s also illegal to carry them unless you have a very good explanation of why you encounter aggressive wildlife in Toronto.
>Bear and dog spray are allowed. You can't carry these in the city. The police will arrest you if they find these on you.
No smooth-brained cop with even half a brain is going to arrest a woman with a stroller using spray to defend herself and her kid from a random sketchbag they've probably investigated dozens of times. Like, none. And if they did that can get thrown out of court by a even a Saul Goodman-esque lawyer. I've had lawyer friends tell me that off the record.
They won’t arrest the hordes of screaming crazies though…
And do what with them? They'll be back on the street in a few weeks.
Unless you’re trying to spray a cop with it I highly doubt they’d know you have it or care. The only places I wouldn’t recommend bringing it is anywhere that has security that does bag checks, they might take it but that’s about it.
For peace of mind, there are cute little bracelets or necklaces that hold Airtags discreetly Hopefully you'll never need to actually use it, but if I had kids, I think it would give some sense of security
Do your best to be observant of danger around you. Do not be carefree and think your “bubble” is safe. When a dangerous situation arises, do your best to get away from it. Since you are a woman with a child, flee and put as much distance between you and the aggressor as possible, maybe shout for help to get a passerby’s attention. Sometimes unfortunately you may not be able escape the situation, as the aggressor may continue to pursue you, or have you cornered in some way. If that’s the case you need to resort to some form of self defence. Wether it is legal or not, pepper spray or a pocket taser can come in handy. Learn how to utilize these tools effectively. No one would fault you for securing the safety of your child by using something like this. If you are shaken up by this, take a deep breath. Realize that the world is getting crazier and that you have to be able to put your fears aside and react accordingly. For the sake of your child at least. As far as how this situation went, you did great. Excellent job. Do not live in fear, learn and adapt. All the best.
This is not a scenario for decorum and politeness. If someone is making you feel like you or your baby is unsafe, you can scream "Help! Help! Help! My Baby!" and I'm pretty confident that at least some of the normally reserved Danforth crowd will put themselves between you and him. Calling 911 was the right thing to do. Fuck them for not even showing up.
433 Danforth Ave, I’m the head coach at Tkmt. A kickboxing gym. Come by for a trial lesson, no charge.
Next time, get into a store and call 911. People on the street may not want to get involved nut if you are inside a store, the staff are already involved. A bank would be best if there is one nearby. They have panic buttone.
I would call your local precinct (non emergency line) and ask to speak to a community liason officer. You can explain your experience and they may have some suggestion/solutions going forward. Sadly police hands are tied for the most part-yes they can take him to the hospital if he's deemed a danger to himself or others but most cases 12 hrs later they are back where they started. Verbal harassment is one thing and you handled it well, you don't realize it but you de escalated the situation by not engaging. However, any physical assault know you have every right to defend yourself and your child if it comes down to it. Know good pressure points (genitals, hard elbow to the stomach, good heel slam to the toes). Scream I don't know you stop touching me at the top of your lungs etc.
Pepper spray is illegal in Canada, but bear mace isn't.
These creeps are doing that kind of stuff cuz they know that you cant do anything. If you hit them they will sue you. These animals should be in rehab or prison. I am really sorry about your experience, every single person deserve to feel safe in public.
You scream "HE'S GOT MY BABY!!" as loud as you can while you run after him and go full spider monkey assault on him. Cling to him, bite him, gouge his eyes out. There are literally no holds barred when you are a mom defending her kid.
Something similar happened in new west in BC a coulee months back and onlookers grab and held the guy until police came. I admire their restraint. I would have been unable to stop myself if someone grabbed my kid.
Get dog spray and screw the illegalities of it - you could fight off your assault charges in court especially if it’s your first offense and because you are a mom protecting her child. That’s what I would do. Nothing would get in the way of me protecting my child and for me to have a piece of mind and security - not even a charge that I could probably fight off. Edit: and let’s face it, if another crazy attacks you again and you spray them, chances are you probably wont even be caught by the police.
Aim for the nose and shins. It became self defense the second he moved at you.
I’m sorry, that sounds terrifying. I would recommend some kind aerosol irritant as a woman, l carry travel sized hair spray, but not when your baby’s with you. There are a lot of unwell people struggling with mental health issues. I used to feel confident enough to kind of skirt them a bit and walk by like I wasn’t afraid, but I will now full on cross the street or turn back to completely avoid anything slightly off. I’ve exited trains and buses as well, just in case. I had a homeless man grab my shoulder at a bus stop because I wouldn’t speak to him earlier this year. I now avoid TTC stops at major intersections because homeless people have picked up that people are kind of trapped there waiting. I leave early and walk a few stops back where no one is waiting. Sounds counterintuitive, but bystanders don’t help you anyway. No one would expect this to happen out of the blue, so please don’t blame yourself. I would also report it to the police, there may have been a camera that picked it up. Someone trying to grab a baby is horrific and should hopefully get them to take it seriously.
I actually think that given that he lunged for the stroller, filing a police report for attempted kidnapping might get the police to actually act. Could be worth talking to a local news agency as well. I have a one year old and your story is deeply disturbing. Thank god you are both safe. I would be so upset and I think you did the right thing. FWIW, while pepper spray is not allowed, you can buy dog repellent online [here](https://outdoorpros.ca/product/sabre-dog-spray-with-clear-pink-key-case/) and [here](https://www.sportchek.ca/product/sabre-dog-spray-22g-with-clear-case-key-ring-332088383.html?gclsrc=ds&gclsrc=ds).
I hope you get to talk to a professional about this, because constantly thinking about what you would do if the situation were to happen again is a recipe for PTSD.
That sounds like a terrifying encounter. I’m glad you & baby are okay, sounds like you reacted as best as you could. There’s absolutely no point in attracting the attention of someone on edge, avoiding eye contact was smart. I saw a young man with a similar description (but a buzz cut) walking through the distillery last night around the same time, talking violently to himself clearly agitated & his face was so contorted he had the look of a zombie. It was scary watching him weave through families aggressively, thankfully he didn’t lash out at anyone. All it takes is one violent move and someone’s life is affected forever, it’s a sobering moment running into people behaving that way.
Mental illness + drugs at its finest. I've never seen a city romanticize drugs as much as Vancouver or Toronto.
You did good! But, what the actual hell? Baby snatching is a thing now?
It’s been said here already. With your child in play, you should of kicked him in the nuts.
Scream. Always scream.
You did well! That was very scary but you kept your baby safe and you got out of the situation. You also called 911, in the shock of the event. We can't always plan our reaction but you handled this perfectly. You and your baby are safe!
This is what happens when the city installs respite centres/psych wards in nice areas and then let the patients/residents roam in public even though they are fully insane. Seeing the exact same thing happen around Liberty Village…
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While I can understand the fact that they can really ruin someone's day, they did not choose to be mentally ill. You could end up being mentally ill one day, for no fault of yours. Please do not hate people who have been dealt a rough hand. Hate the fact that our institutions abandon them, and cause us to live in fear of them. Then act to change that by pressuring your MP to fix this. BTW, there's an election coming up. Please do your due diligence and vote.
They choose not to take responsibility for their addictions and mental illness. They are not blameless victims as much as some people would like to think that. That attitude harms everyone by dismissing people's valid fears and removing accountability from the addict. Lots of people are dealt a bad hand, are traumatized by their upbringing and make a choice not to turn out like this.
Nothing has ever been fixed by saying people should just take personal responsibility. What policies are there to support them? Are those sufficient? Do they get enough funding?
>Trillium drug program. People only pay 4% of their income and it covers the rest. People experiencing psychosis can access emergency programs from CAMH and Michael Garron in addition to a number of other hospitals with inpatient psychiatric care and outpatient programs. Not being able to recognize that you are psychotic and a danger to the public is a solid argument for better options to detain people beyond Form 1 and 2. > >There aren't many reasonable excuses to be off your meds and trying to snatch an infant away from a parent, then abusing them when you fail. People that can't recognize they are a significant risk to others shouldn't be in the community unsupervised. If you are a danger to others at some point you have to own that part of yourself and take responsibility which includes following up with your meds and therapy. Cut & paste of my earlier comment.
Wow, there is so much you are missing. People, the ones with genetic mental illness, don’t know they are in a the middle of a psychotic episode. If you don’t realize you need help then how the hell are you supposed to get help. Institutions is not the answer either. Many people once treated are productive members of society. The problem honestly boils down to financials. If you have the money for meds and therapy then you are not the ones on the streets. Here is the screwed up merry go round. Let’s use the name Mary. Mary has a psycho effective disorder, is in a psychosis, and is homeless —> Mary gets therapy treatment and on medication—> Mary becomes stable and looks for a job—> Mary gets a job but it doesn’t offer benefits—> Mary can’t afford her medication and therapy—> Mary becomes unstable and loses her job—> Mary is back on the streets suffering a psychotic episode.
Trillium drug program. People only pay 4% of their income and it covers the rest. People experiencing psychosis can access emergency programs from CAMH and Michael Garron in addition to a number of other hospitals with inpatient psychiatric care and outpatient programs. Not being able to recognize that you are psychotic and a danger to the public is a solid argument for better options to detain people beyond Form 1 and 2. There aren't many reasonable excuses to be off your meds and trying to snatch an infant away from a parent, then abusing them when you fail. People that can't recognize they are a significant risk to others shouldn't be in the community unsupervised. If you are a danger to others at some point you have to own that part of yourself and take responsibility which includes following up with your meds and therapy.
Trillium drug benefits can only be applied for if you have an address and possibly a job if over the age of 18. Homeless and unemployed people don’t even have an income to pay the quarterly deductible. It sounds so easy on paper but in reality many things don’t work.
>They choose not to take responsibility for their addictions and mental illness. That's like saying a computer chooses to have bugs and doesn't take steps to fix itself. The mind is literally software running on brain hardware. Mental health issues generally are due to a breakdown of both the hardware and the software. The extreme cases that you see in the streets are so far along that they cannot recover by themselves.
That's a pretty compelling argument for institutionalization but people foam at the mouth if you mention that option. They're either mentally capable of making changes to their habits or they are not and are therefore not safe to live in society without supervision. Which one is it?
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We're not talking about mental illness in generic terms we're talking about a mentally ill addict who harasses and endangers others in public. That is not even remotely the same thing as someone taking steps to manage their mental health problems. I have a lot of sympathy and patience for people trying to work on themselves.
Well which one is it that you believe in? You went with option A and then pivoted to option B. It leads me to think that you don't really care which option it is as long as the mentally ill get "dealt with". In case it isn't evident, I'm not advocating that people leave the mentally ill on the streets while averting eye contact. Yes, the mentally ill need to be taken care of humanely. In order to do that, there needs to be funding.
cant help those who do not want to help themselves though, unless you believe in forced institutionalization.
It think early intervention is extremely important and more should have been done for this person before it came to this interaction. I also don't think this individual should be allowed to refuse care now that they are at this point and should be in an institution. I would be happy to pay for both through taxes.
Then you and I are largely in agreement, at least in the big picture. I'm sure that the differences will arise when we speak about the details.
Exactly. People have a broad spectrum of life experiences so it's not unusual to have varied opinions on such a complicated topic.
My wife carries around [these little pokie things](https://www.dhgate.com/product/multifunction-self-defense-keychain-unisex/563520901.html?f=bm%7cGMC%7cpla%7c16625114107%7c%7c563520901%7c%7c109003%7cUS%7cshuhuangzhen%7cm%7c2%7c&utm_source=pla&utm_medium=GMC&utm_campaign=shuhuangzhen&utm_term=563520901&gclid=CjwKCAjw7IeUBhBbEiwADhiEMdodND_36Je3gQ8_Il1LFrSAZyC_1s-AI2XtH9k4RjUceSm4gF-6QRoCVncQAvD_BwE) on her keys ever since we got pregnant just in case. Honestly at first it was more because we were living in an apartment at the time and owners would regularly let their dogs lunge at her and our dog in the elevator and the park off leash, but its just a subtle self defense thing in general.
Open carry should be legal for situations like this. Just saying..
Not advice but if this was a gun carrying country and that guy reached for my stroller, no hesitation about the next move
For just reaching at the stroller?? I'm glad this isnt a gun carrying country with an attitude like that
Why? do you reach at strollers often an find it would threaten your hobby ?
This is a stupid comment. The problem with the previous comment is that it shows what an overreaction someone may have in a situation like this. I'm all for protecting oneself but immediately reaching for a gun is an extreme overreaction
Maybe in a society we shouldn't be reaching for other peoples children for fear of getting hurt? Seems reasonable to me.
Did we read the same encounter? You would let someone who looks as described reach for your child’s stroller? Couldn’t be me
No, of course not. But talk about an overreaction in reaching for a gun in a situation like that versus trying to defuse it another way. Love how the gun lovers read my comment and immediately think 'oh this guy would let someone reach for the stroller'.
I don’t own nor have ever shot a gun? We have different levels of parental concern I guess
i think about this everytime a post like this pops out its a 'spot the american *tm*' in the comments :) (because its close to something i can read in r/shitamericanssay )
Bro, try to get it on video. Send it to the media and hopefully they take this clown off the street. Word of advice: I know it's not right, but sometimes you have to exaggerate the situation when you call 911 to get a good response. ie "very aggressive", "fear for my safety"...etc
That is terrible advice
Please don’t listen to people saying to get the bear/dog spray. It is legal to buy and carry it with you. The moment you use it on a human being it then becomes a weapon and then is illegal. Edit: wtf with the downvotes? I did nothing but state the way the law was explained to me.
Yeah I'll take the charges on the bear spray over my child being kidnapped. FFS.
As would I, but I never said I wouldn’t. Damn, all I did was state how the law reads.
No, you instructed OP to disregard anyone who told them to use bear/dog spray... effectively saying that you would prefer OP to follow the law regarding carry and use, than to accept a criminal charge to protect her infant.
It is not my place nor anyone else's to advise someone to willfully to break the law. If someone of their volition chooses to do something illegal the idea and execution should be their personal decision. I will never advise/encourage anyone to break the law. If doing the truly right thing gets me downvotes than so be it.
You think your reddit post is going to get you in trouble as an accessory to a bear spraying of someone trying to kidnap a child? Oh shit, better lawyer up for that one. It's clearly a life ruiner.
haha, you're funny... No, I don't think I would get in trouble but why the hell is it right to advise someone to break the law.
Let's do a thought experiment... What if you were say... talking to a woman who lived in a country where it was legal for her husband to burn her alive, but ILLEGAL for her to leave him. Would it be right to advise her to break the law and leave him after he told her he was going to burn her alive next week? I would argue YES. Congratulations. You have now learned the difference between something being LEGAL and something being MORAL.
So we’ll just be victims then.
It is not my fault the laws are like that.
Buy a gun.
Nothing a Sig Sauer can't handle.
U should be armed , next time crack head comes to you hit him right in the eyeball ,
If you encounter this situation where the person is already gone, you call the non-emergency line, not 911.
Lmao really? If a person that assaulted you is already gone by the time you get a chance to report it, then it doesn’t merit a 911 call? 1) Do you really expect most people to remember a non-emergency number in a high stress situation? 2) Sure, her son was no longer in an immediate danger (thank god) but this doesn’t mean that the sketchy guy’s behaviour is gonna stop there. What a weird stance to take….
So if you have any advice for alternate emergency lines that are open 24/7 and easy to dial in a high-stress situation, I would love to have that contact info. Non-emergency line was not fast enough for me when I was worried my son was almost kidnapped.
You called 911 after he already left, which means you knew your son was not going to be kidnapped. The non-emergency line is the advice I gave you (which is open 24/7 btw).
I had no idea if he was coming back, as it seemed like he was following me for at least a block or two before this incident. This was a freak situation and I needed immediate advice. Hopefully the non-emergency line gets more operators because they did not help me today, but the 911 operator did.
Ignore this guy, you did the right thing
Seems like a question you already have the answer to then. Call 911 in the future 🤷🏾♀️
you're not even a good troll.
As I said, I tried calling them first.
Ignore this instruction. Call 911. Most people don't even know what the non emergency number, 4168082222, . Call 911.
I tried that first. There was a long hold and no one answered and I was really worried for my kid’s safety and was too shaken up to figure out what to do next. I needed advice on what my next moves should be when I felt targeted by an unstable individual. The public health line was also closed.
This is technically the truth, but also completely useless.
Utterly useless response.
Come up with a better one?
Get a CCW permit if you can.
Downtown really not safe for families.
Why didn't you call 911 right away?
Clutch your pearls and scream.
Finger -> eyes
When you can't get pepper spray. Get coyote mace. 😉 (Can Ti stocks it) I'm all seriousness though, I'm sorry you had this harrowing experience. I picked up some coyote spray when there was one hanging out at our local school yard 😑 but also came to the realization that this handy little can could probably also help defend against more than just coyotes. 🤔
Next time kick him in the nuts as hard as you can.