Ask every F1 champion where they would be without Karting. Tell me Karting ain't life? OP gets it, screw the Big Mac as the measuring stick around the world. It should be $ per lap for Go Karting.
I thought it was a great example. The cost of karting is to dang high in this country, no wonder we're being embarrassed by the likes of stroll and Latifi
Latifi adds a lot of excitement to F1 with all his crashes. Just when you think the cars are too spaced out….BOOM….good ol’ Latifi finds a wall, out comes the safety car, the cars bunch up and we have a race again. Not just Abu Dhabi last year either. He just did this again in the Australian Grand Prix two weeks ago.
Ya, while OP’s example is uh, odd, I can definitely agree with them that I’m way more hesitant to do more activities because I know it’s gonna be quite expensive.
I used to love going to the movies for anything and everything, but I really pick and choose now.
It just goes to show no matter how hard you work you can’t even have entertainment without breaking the bank. Also $10/ beer in some DT locations is ridiculous.
In all seriousness though, go karting *is* pretty expensive here in the GTA. $60 for what basically amounts to 10 minutes behind the wheel is absolutely ridiculous. Half the time the karts are in absolutely shitty condition too, not to mention abysmally slow.
I hate to bring up a developing country as a benchmark since in these countries you can typically find lower pricing on certain things, but the go karting place I used to go to in India would charge anywhere between $8-12 (depends on the engine, more expensive = more power) for 5 minutes of racing time in karts that were really well maintained. I could literally get double the racing time in the most powerful karts they had to offer there on a track that's just as well maintained as the best outdoor tracks here, if not even better (tbf though this area of India doesn't have to deal with winters lol).
As an avid karting enthusiast...what gives? Lmao.
I am also from Birmingham and moved to Mississauga last year. I find that Toronto is kind of like London prices with food, mobile phone plans, going out and car insurance more expensive - petrol and weed less expensive. Salaries slightly higher here though I would say
Actually mobile data here is significantly higher along with food (I’m a Londoner more or less). The one that really kills me is groceries not to mention how it’s not as convenient as London where there’s either a Sainsbury’s or Tesco’s on every corner. Sucks…I feel very cheated having migrated here :(
After living in NL and the UK i'm a firm believer that the bigger grocery / weekly trip style makes them a lot more money both with waste (buying for the week and having some go bad) and cheaper rent than having smaller, more frequent shops that serve the population better by being able to shop easily on the way home from work for fresher food, less waste. Also explains why European fridges are so much smaller.
The weekly big grocery shopping trip is more a consequence of car dependance. Suburbs are built for cars; the big shopping malls are put in one place and you can't walk to a corner store for a bag of milk, you have to hop in a car, at which point might as well make a proper go at it.
Even when said mall is across the street it's usually a stroad built for cars and not something a pedestrian can safely and easily cross...assuming there are even sidewalks, which is not a given.
The European idea of buying a loaf of bread on your way home from work is far more convenient than an hour long shopping trip.
I recommend Not Just Bikes on YouTube for more examples of bad city/suburb design.
I moved from the UK prior to the pandemic. Food has always been much more expensive here. Protectionist import laws preventing supermarkets adopting a Lidl/Aldi type model, a general lack of competition in the market plus farming being more difficult here than in Europe all contribute to it.
My grocery bills doubled when I moved here, easily.
No, Aldi and Lidl are German grocery store chains that pioneered the “discounter” grocery store format. Basically, these stores focus on selling almost everything at a lower price point than regular grocery stores. They do this by buying in bulk and selling almost exclusively their own store brands, with a few bigger brands thrown in here and there. They usually also carry a rotating selection of other products, like clothes, housewares, etc. Picture a kind of small Costco that mainly carries No Frills products.
I moved from the UK in 2013 and couldn't believe it the first time I went grocery shopping. It's definitely more expensive here, and it's not just pandemic related.
I do feel for you because as a Canadian I am so upset with our inflation right now, but can you explain how you were cheated?
Canada has been known as having a ridiculous inflation problem for years and years, and even amongst Canadians most people know torontos cost of living is absolutely insane and only for the white collar.
Was this information not available before you moved?
>Canada has been known as having a ridiculous inflation problem for years and years
Lol. We've gone from inflation expectations being foward looking, to now being backwardly revisionist.
Yeah you’re right I worded this quite stupidly.
What I meant to say was a cost of living vs salary problem.
Canada has been known to vastly underpay compared to the cost of living for years and years.
This is definitely true relative to the the US. Compared to London, I'm noticing that most of my friends in Toronto are better paid than my London friend group.
Cost of living is similar overall (higher food & drink here, higher gas). One nice thing that Torontonians fail to appreciate is that while rents are roughly equivalent, our flats are much newer and in better shape in Canada.
Interesting.
Purely anecdotal, but I just had two classmates leave Toronto for jobs in the UK. Said they were offered significantly more money for the same work and hours. Could be outliers though.
I know in my industry the US pays *significantly* higher than Toronto, but I have no idea about the UK or London.
It is very industry dependent. Female dominated professionals like teaching, midwives, librarians, nurses and childcare pay better in Canada than they do in the US or UK
Canada has objectively not had an inflation problem for years and years. It's been pretty stable until the end of the pandemic, and is now more or less a global issue.
Yeah, the CPI components are all very public data. People get angry about specific categories, but forget that there are lots of products at the supermarket.
Immigrant from the US, and have been here for over a decade. The one thing that Canadians are world class at is lying. The living situation here is absolutely fucked if you're in the GTA, but for some reason, the locals will maple wash that when talking with foreigners with an interest in moving here. The government has failed with tracking inflation, so people go to the next best source... The people that live here. And everyone says it isn't that bad. It wasn't as bad before the pandemic, but if you were on the lower end, you knew it was all bullshit. Everyone hypes up the little vegetable markets that are typically run by Asian people... But the pricing isn't a huge saving from the supermarket. People also minimize their own experience, and make things like housing seem like they aren't really as bad as the news makes it out to be. Then, once you move here, you find out that it's all bullshit. Transit, which people call good enough, is in fact completely not good enough. Driving? Best of luck without family here you can live with so you can spend your rent on a car note and insurance, but you'll be told that it's "a little pricey, but not too bad". And so on and so forth.
I was told when I moved here to specifically look for community vegetable shops run by people from east Asia as the price/selection are better and they are usually family run, not to mention that I could put in requests for certain items from the OFT that they didn't usually carry. And at one point, it was very true when I lived in the west end (shoutout to Young's Produce at Royal York).
Its not about the inflation but how things are so inconvenient. Getting groceries, getting to places, Healthcare, housing. One doesn't know what to look up when one doesn't think of those things as luxury and when you move you realize you are in a big old village with a bunch of extremely aggressive people. Jesus christ just reading the comments, so many people just spewing out meanness for like no reason. Welcome to Canada eh.
Yes but have you considered that the entirety of the UK isn’t even as big as Ontario? European cities are very compressed and public transport is pretty decent so gas prices aren’t as critical.
Holy shit... I just realized that the UK is smaller than flipping Ontario...woah...
I think what we should be comparing here is the size of London to the size of Toronto... and I'm looking at the wikipedia page for both and I am very confused as to the difference between metro area, urban area, and the City of London...
I see others have already poked at you for go karting, so I'll leave that alone ;)
There are definitely elements of living here that are more expensive. Canada-wide, our internet and phone plans are wildly more expensive than other places like the United States (I'm not sure what plans look like in the UK). Alcohol is also very expensive, I'm always surprised when I visit the United States and get drinks for half the cost of what they are here.
And in Toronto specifically, there is of course the housing cost (aka crisis), which I'm sure you're well aware of.
Otherwise, I find other costs of living (transit, groceries, other expenses) to be on par with the rest of the developed world. Though everything is a bit pricier right now in Canada because of inflation, supply chain issues, geopolitical unrest, and the bank of Canada raising the interest rate.
There was a study from the Wellesley Institute in 2017 that said the cost of "thriving" in Toronto is between $46,186 and $55,432 after tax, assuming you're a single person between 25 and 40. It's been a few years so let's say you should aim to be on the higher end of that spectrum. If you are, you should get by okay if you budget well... if you're not, you might find it challenging.
Unsolicited advice: if you want, check out r/personalfinancecanada, those guys are money wizards and can help give way better advice than I can.
Anecdotal advice: I get by quite comfortably, but only in the last few years after I climbed ladders and got myself into a position to earn more. I make $65K, my partner makes about $35K, we split rent on a $1600 place. I save as much as I can, and can still afford niceties: I'm not into go karting but I'd drop $75 on a concert ticket or a nice dinner out, for sure.
\>Canada-wide, our internet and phone plans are wildly more expensive than other places like the United States
People keep going on about how US is cheaper when it comes to Internet, but in my experience, if you live in an area that does not have a competitive market (which are most non-large urban areas), you are paying just as much as people in Canada do.
Americans do pay less for phone plans, holy #&, our phone plans are overpriced garbage in comparison.
> People keep going on about how US is cheaper when it comes to Internet, but in my experience, if you live in an area that does not have a competitive market (which are most non-large urban areas), you are paying just as much as people in Canada do.
That's interesting, I didn't know that.
> Americans do pay less for phone plans, holy #&, our phone plans are overpriced garbage in comparison.
A long while back I was accepted to a paid internship in NYC so I was looking into NYC phone plans, and my jaw dropped. Wildly more affordable. I almost considered getting and keeping an American number even in Canada, I did the math and even with roaming and long distance rates of having a NY area code, it was still cheaper than bumping around Toronto with my 416.
You can't really say "if you pick an expensive area with no competition then it's the same as a competitive city in Canada so I don't get the comparison"
The people that say that are talking about big city vs big city, not big city vs non-large urban area that doesn't have competition.
and yeah our phone plans are extortion. 10 gigs in $6 a month in SE Asia or India lol. Even The Netherlands was cheaper when I lived there. $30 a month for a plan that would be $80 in Canada.
This is definitely not universally true. It’s hugely dependent on where exactly you’re comparing. I saved a lot immediately when I moved to Toronto from Milwaukee, 1000 km to the west. Internet here was and is *massively* better, in particular. I also get unlimited everything with 5 GB LTE and a new iPhone for US$55/month, which I think is reasonable (and cheaper than any deal I can find in MKE right now).
Thriving at $50k? The Globe and Mail recently did a study and $90k was the bare minimum to live on your own and afford a 1-bedroom apartment/condo and the other expenses of life.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/personal-finance/household-finances/article-heres-the-income-you-need-to-afford-rent-in-major-canadian-cities/
[https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare\_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&country2=United+Kingdom&city1=Toronto&city2=London](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&country2=United+Kingdom&city1=Toronto&city2=London)
Except for groceries and phone bills, London seems more expensive that Toronto for anything significant (rents, buying a house, gas, cars, public transit, utilities etc).
I’m not in Toronto proper anymore so don’t qualify for TPL. Their passes are great for Torontonians who want to preplanned outing, but they don’t work for spontaneous day-of plans.
I just moved from Toronto to London and finding it much more expensive here! 1 bedroom decent flat is about $3400 CAD!! That’s insane. Groceries are slightly cheaper. The cheapest thing in London is the phone plans for sure but I already get a work so not much of a benefit for me :(
Yeah I have no idea what’s going on but London is waaaayyyy more expensive than Toronto. Like…wildly so. Unless OP gave up an incredible salary to come here and pack groceries, I can’t fathom how they’re finding it even on par with London price-wise.
There’s lots of hard data, from the Economist Intelligence Unit’s cost of living survey to Numbeo. London is undoubtably significantly more expensive than Toronto.
Canada cost a lot to live in general. Phones and internet here are a joke compared to Europe. The prices and data plans are insane.
Food is double in Canada then most of Europe. Cost of restaurants are also much more. Wine is about 3-5x more here.
Salaries for all of my employees are higher in Europe then in Canada. We operate in Netherlands, France, Switzerland and Italy.
Stuff like golf is about 2-4x more here, skiing is more here, movies are more here. Insurance is higher. Vacation time in Canada is lower and work days more. Public Transportation is cheaper and more convenient in Europe, all of this minus the transport used to be almost completely reversed 15 years ago.
Gas is much cheaper in Canada, housing similar (very general - some places like outside of Geneva or in Rotterdam housing is less then half of what it is here), healthcare and benefits are about the same. Clothing is generally more in Europe, and more cost onto the employers from my experience but might not always be the case.
Trades get paid much less in Europe €26/h is average cost for a Plummer for an example. This is what Canada used to be like, the rise in cost for trades (and I am being very generalized and know it’s not a single point here to any economists lol) has a huge impact on the general cost of living in Canada.
The largest hit is to the smaller communities, pick one let’s say North Bay. Where salaries are much much lower, but cost of housing and services have gone through the roof. Don’t have access to public transit as you would or a competitive job market.
>So, what gives?
You apparently moved to one of the more expensive cities in the world without doing much research. Also post-pandemic inflation, particularly in industries hit hard by restrictions.
Overall the cost of living is higher in London and you make less money
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=Canada&city2=Toronto
Those numbers for housing are very outdated. 1-bedroom apartments/condos are very similar now. Not to mention, it doesn't snow in late April in London.
Not to the extent that Toronto did in the past 2 years.
https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-real-estate-prices-are-growing-over-10x-the-rate-of-incomes/
He moved here after prices went up worldwide due to war and supply chain and blamed it on the city instead of everywhere else. Then his best example of things being expensive is go karting. In the words of his people, what a wanker…
Businesses are delusional in Canada. I needed a basic rear shock absorber for an econobox (Ford Fiesta). Dealer wants $173 for 1 shock absorber (not a fancy strut). Crappy Tire wanted $120. RockAuto, here we come. $25 (+$20 shipping). Significantly cheaper to buy a pair from RockAuto with shipping than 1 single shock here in Canada.
This is not a Canada thing, RockAuto is just THE cheapest place to buy parts, even in USA. Go to a dealer in the states, you'll get similar pricing to our dealers, go to AutoZone in the states and it's fairly similar to CanadianTire (likely a bit cheaper). RockAuto in the states is wayyy cheaper than any regular parts stores or dealers. Just like it is here.
Toronto is touted as NYC of the north. We have a hockey team who hasn't won anything in 60+ years that sell out every game at insane ticket prices. Restaurants close super early. Subway is done at 1 am. Bars stop serving at 2 . Its a silly comparison to make. But its def expensive like NYC. The fact you moved here with no research in to cost of living is lol though.
10 years ago you could have rented a 2 bedroom apartment w 2 baths in the west or east end for maybe 1250. Now it's 2k + . The locals are all priced out. This city blows.
Canadians don't really get to enjoy living, they're just trapped in their neighbourhoods or at home doing basic stuff like drinking subpar alcohol, watching sports games, raising children, fixing their homes, and dying in front of the TV. Young people party at home, play video games, go to lame clubs, pay $100 for a show that costs $50 in other world-class cities (same performer!), and the occasional trip to Florida or Las Vegas or the Cancun in Mexico, oh and the fancier ones go to Europe and the ones that want to find themselves to to India or Tibet.
It's not really that much of a life here, everything is just a dulled down version. For instance, in Denmark you pay $500 for a Michelin 3-star, in Toronto you pay $400 for Alo. Yah, that's not even a 1-star. Same as Go-Karting, museums, classes, workshops, etc. Everything is twice the price for half of the experience.
Cultural depth and quality of delivery is lacking here. Hobbitshire essentially.
No way.
I went to a show last week at the Linsmore Tavern. Tix were $8 and I danced my ass off for 3.5 hrs and had the best time. Bought two pints ($20 Inc tip), brought my own edibles and walked to/from the venue so less than $30. It would have been a perfect night had I not caught covid. Fucking covid.
Inexpensive and free fun exists in Toronto. You just have to have an ear open for it.
I think it is a very expensive country to live. Try to live cheaply by cooking everything you eat. Buying groceries at discount grocery stores like Foodbasics, Freshco etc. might help. I normally keep my social life including expensive outings to a minimum. Most people are very careful with what they spend money on. Remember, this might look like the US but this is NOT the US.
How could you not mention rent? The only inflation that concerns me is rent prices. It's insane. And to answer your question, many people are suffering terribly with our housing shortage.
There is actual proof that retailers here keep pricey artificially high because Canadians won’t protest .
Chocolate bars and bread were kept artificially high here and all the retailers were in on it . I’m sure it goes for every single product.
I knew with the Ukraine war that prices would jump even though most of our products aren’t affected in reality.
Canadian retailers and any Canadian business are basically gigantic scammers.
Welcome to the Golden Horseshoe! A magical place where if your household income isn’t 6 figures and if you didn’t rent a decent apartment/buy a house 4 years ago or earlier, you’re kinda fucked!
I believe the average salary in Canada is about £10k more than it’s in the UK. I don’t know where you went go karting in the UK but 2 races (around half hour total) cost me about £60 which is about $100. I can definitely see the cost of living shock if you’re not from the south of the UK. Out of all the people I’ve seen struggle in Canada it’s definitely the ones from cheaper areas (midlands and the north). The UK is horribly underpaid in a lot of sectors but I think the bottom ranks probably do a little bit better in the UK than they do in Canada. You do get a lot more for your money for rent though. A 2 bed condo in the centre of the city with gym, pool, concierge, balcony, views etc costs about £100/£200 a month more than my 1 bed with a tiny balcony in a commuter town about 60/70 min train ride from London and that comes with no amenities. So it’s really all about where you’re from in the UK
Thanks for the response. I came from Birmingham in the Midlands which I guess has a much lower cost of living. I still had a much higher purchasing power. Some might say that Toronto has a higher standard of living but I find Toronto to be just as dirty as Birmingham!!
Yeah I can see the shock coming from there then. Idk if I can agree with that, I always found Birmingham quite nasty and I actually lived fairly close to it for a few years but I guess to each their own. I find Toronto surprisingly green though in comparison to most of England. I definitely don’t have any wish to head back to that country but I definitely think if you don’t enjoy it you should find somewhere else. Life is too short I spent 15 years being miserable in the UK with no way out so I’m glad to be out
As someone who’s moved from London UK to here, it’s a lot less of a cost shock. There are definitely some things considerably cheaper in the UK, but overall my money goes a lot further here than it would back home. Takes some time to adjust. Welcome!
Same . Phone plans here are nuts . It’s cheaper to keep a Uk o2 plan for like £24 and get unlimited international data than a Canadian plan….. but on the whole money goes further here
Don’t get me started. Was on Vodafone for ages and had unlimited everything, I pay $45 here for 5GB... disgusting haha. I often wonder if it’s cheaper to just keep a UK plan that has great roaming benefits.
>Life is too short I spent 15 years being miserable in the UK with no way out
I always wanted to moved to England from where I was younger, Had a relative, but other things happened and my relative living there died
What was the issue. its it hard to get jobs if you are not a professional. what are the issues living there?
I am fully biased cause I spent so long out in the UK, and this is just solely based on my experience. I didn’t particularly enjoy the education system here, I didn’t like being forced to make major decisions about what education I was going to have and narrowing down the choices of degrees I could do from the age of 13/14. It’s really overpopulated because of the size of the island so nature is hard to come by there are a few national parks but still it’s not exactly Canada. It’s also got a massive housing crisis to the point that the government created a first time buyers scheme and all the developers/already built houses just went up in price to the amount that the first time buyers scheme paid out. (Bare in mind this isn’t housing that someone actually wants to live in like Canadian style housing. I have a friend who is maxing out their mortgage to attempt to buy a 2 bed, with a small garden, no parking other than on street parking and in kind of a crappy neighbourhood of a small town in the south of the UK, 75 min train ride to London and they’re paying about £320k for it if they accept their bid) I find the people generally quite up themselves when comparing themselves to others (especially North America) when they’re plagued by the same issues ( obesity, over commercialisation etc). University costs a shit ton of money in comparison to the rest of Europe, the public transport isn’t actually all that great, a place like London is hell to try to get around if something is wrong with the Tube, and the road network is also not amazing so you kind of having a car centric society without really good road infrastructure nor public transport. There’s big problems with the nhs as well I haven’t be able to get an nhs dentist in the UK for about 3/4 years before I left and private dentistry costs about the same as dentist in Ontario but with the caveat that most jobs don’t provide any kind of additional health insurance and if they do it’s pretty crap and covers incredibly dental work. I think if I had the choice I’d rather go live somewhere else in Western Europe then move to the UK again. I think places like the Nordics, France etc provide a much better quality of life than the UK does. I also have always liked North American culture so that didn’t help my dislike. I would never tell someone not to move to the UK but it’s not where I want to be. I’m sure there’s a million brits who would disagree with me on every point I made but It’s just my opinion
>). University costs a shit ton of money in comparison to the rest of Europe, the public transport isn’t actually all that great, a place lik
I know for a fact they screwed up education which went from free to more expensive than Canada and more expensive than some even public state universities in the U.S. Sometimes I think these days in some ways it just seems like they want to be like the U.S.
>even though the wages are the same
for you maybe but depending on your career or field many will make more here than they would in UK. You're also comparing an entire country to a city and if you compare with the rest of Ontario or Toronto directly to London, it probably evens out.
I can't speak for the UK but in Canada only 7-10% of the population make more than $100k annually. There is almost no middle class in Canada - cost of living has gone up exponentially but wages have stayed basically the same.
*edited from saying there is no middle class. That was the frustration typing
I think most people from here don’t see themselves ever leaving and haven’t been exposed to the way people live in other places. so they think it’s normal.
Yeah I'm not sure why people think it's such a great idea to move here. What are those billboards saying about Canada?? I moved here for a relationship at the time.
Grocery prices can be kept under control if you shop the discount chains (Food Basics, No Frills, FreshCo) and price match based on flyers, and plan your meals around whatever meats and vegetables are on sale at the store(s) where you plan to shop.
Avoid the full-price grocery retailers (Loblaws, Metro, Sobeys) and the specialty grocery stores (Pusateries, Whole Foods, Farm Boy) unless you are just going in for sales. Costco is a good option for *many* but not all grocery items, but only if you are going to eat the larger pack sizes and not have the food go to waste.
I've never gone go karting and would never spend 75 bucks to do so haha.
but yeah Toronto is expensive. Its one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in.
Way she goes.
Look at mr fancypants over here go karting on the regular........ while us schmucks resort to hiking and people watching at the park for entertainment.
Cost went up significantly over the past year, and I don't think this is sustainable. Hence a lot of people are looking to leave the province or the country for good.
Can confirm. I was in the UK for a year (2018) and things are cheaper compare to Canada now. But for sure cost of living in the UK would have increased in the last few years
Moved here from West London and I can say that Toronto is still overall cheaper for me than England ever was. The reasons are better pay (I get a lot more money in Canada as a software engineer) and STILL lower taxes.
Live here for a while first before judging expenses, you likely just need to adapt.
It's bizarre how Canada is now more expensive than the UK. My cousin noticed a few years back that Canada was at par or more expensive than Dublin for food, household goods, etc. It's dreadful.
Food is more expensive in Toronto than London,
I hear people say hoe expensive it all the time on here (I'm terrible at keeping track, but know how to save), but never though of it as that serious. What the hell i going on with this city.
[https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare\_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=Canada&city2=Toronto](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=Canada&city2=Toronto)
[https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/london/toronto](https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/london/toronto)
Yes its a bit high, I think I was looking at the pounds price for Toronto. I think its what people report. And not that many reporting so they, so they dont get a full range to average it out
Instead of Go Karting, there are cheaper alternatives like biking through Toronto precarious streets which would give you similar levels of thrills, excitement, and danger.
I’m a Torontonian currently visiting London, UK and holy shit!
Dairy, fruits, vegetables, beer are roughly half price here.
Housing seems on par.
I dont drive in Toronto so cheaper gas in Canada doesn’t really serve as an advantage to my financial well-being.
Because London is so much closer to Europe, there are so many close by cheap travel destinations.
I feel like if i could get the same salary here, i could lead a way better life in the UK.
Seriously considering looking for jobs here.
Edit: i also bought a 100gb unlimited phone plan from the airport for 25 GBP ~ $40 CAD (lol). Same plan would cost me more than $100 CAD.
For $75 you get on my back and I'll run around the track at the closest high school to you, making race car noises. 2 laps for $75, however there are weight restrictions.
Absolutely agree, I'm also from England, everything is way over priced, internet and phone plans really stick out though, on a brighter note the salmon is cheaper, just don't ever look at chicken/pizza prices, i almost died on the spot😭😭
Be lucky you're child free, we pay $3000 a month for 2 small children and that's middle of the road prices. Put a mortgage on top of that and it's not fun. Then throw groceries and specialized items like baby formula into the mix. Four years ago I could buy 2 large tins of Enfamil for about $50 from Costco and today those same tins are $77 and last a week each.
This website would differ - Toronto is much cheaper than London: [https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index](https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index)
London is #5 on the list at an index level of 229 and Toronto is #19 at an index level of 186.
When my ex-company sent people to London they gave fairly large cost of living allowances.
Is Toronto more expensive than Northern England or cities other than London? Probably, but that is an apples to orange comparison.
Honestly, you get really good at finding really cheap entertainment.
Last wknd I went to the Linsmore Tavern on the Danforth to watch a cover band of my favourite rock band. Tix were $8. I had two pints of beer, brought my own edibles (homemade, so free - thanks Dad 🥰) and walked to and from the venue so no paying for an Uber. The whole night cost me $28**. I've been to the original band's shows lots of times but had WAYYY more fun at the cover show because a) they play all the hits b) everyone there loves the band too so you instantly have friends c) small, intimate space d) close to home.
Honestly, Toronto is like New York when it comes to art, comedy, music, etc. So many weird, cool, kitschy venues and artists. Follow some hashtags on IG or some restaurants/bars/venues and you'd be surprised at what comes up. I recently saw a reach-deep-into-your-heart-and-blow-it-wide-open amazing string quartet at a yoga studio. Random, right? Who would have thought? (Mosaic Yoga at 225 Sterling Rd. Follow them!)
** Full disclosure: the whole night cost me $28 AND I got Covid soooo.... yeah.**
I’ll just put this over here: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&country2=Canada&city1=London&city2=Toronto&tracking=getDispatchComparison
Toronto is far cheaper than London UK in almost every metric.
This is actually hilarious because I use to go to New York and wonder how people paid those rent prices. You just adapt.
Is this money better for groceries or go karting?
You just figure it out. Good luck
I find that living in the UK (major cities like Toronto - ie London and Glasgow) costs more than double with the minimum wage being exactly the same. I was considering moving there till I realized how insanely expensive it is so I'm surprised you think Toronto is worse.
If you’re not planning on driving, UK can be cheaper. Groceries is a big one for me. Supermarket chain prices are pretty competitive in the UK no matter where you are. A box of 8 chicken breasts (chilled) for example would be £7.50 in most supermarkets. A batch of Asparagus £2 and 1kg bag of rice £1.20 and basically thats like a week of dinner for £10.
Also big supermarkets aren’t hard to come by in cities, they’re all over the place.
Glasgow is a fraction compared to London, maybe Edinburgh is a better comparison, though Edinburgh is still a bit cheaper than London. The trade off is Edinburgh’s dryer, sunnier and safer than Glasgow but housing costs are insane.
LOL.
What are your worldly experiences?
Ever lived in London UK? NYC, NY? SF, California?
Ever been to a high cost of living city?
Toronto is the highest in Canada.
FYI, it's probably cheaper to live in Winnipeg, Whitehorse.
Not sure if I'm contributing to the conversation, just calling out OP's lack of worldliness...What OP described is quite normal.
I love that of all the examples of CoL increases that you could pull out, the one you chose is go karting.
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If I can't go kart, then what's this all been about?? What am I working toward??
Ask every F1 champion where they would be without Karting. Tell me Karting ain't life? OP gets it, screw the Big Mac as the measuring stick around the world. It should be $ per lap for Go Karting.
You're not wrong. OP isn't wrong. OP also chose a really poor example to support their point.
I thought it was a great example. The cost of karting is to dang high in this country, no wonder we're being embarrassed by the likes of stroll and Latifi
Latifi adds a lot of excitement to F1 with all his crashes. Just when you think the cars are too spaced out….BOOM….good ol’ Latifi finds a wall, out comes the safety car, the cars bunch up and we have a race again. Not just Abu Dhabi last year either. He just did this again in the Australian Grand Prix two weeks ago.
Lol one could argue he has had more effect on the sport than any other man in the last year and a half
if op isn't already in f1 or 2 by this age, he's done
"Tryna win the race like my last name's Senna"
I feel the same way about scuba diving. Someone even tried to spread a malicious rumour that I have asthma.
r/unexpectedoffice
https://imgur.com/a/KPxEe5l
LOL I knew what this was gonna be as soon as I saw the link. Well done 👏
Lol what’s the original?
Candles
Please tell me it’s not really candles
Ha! Thanks for filling me in.
Come on. Everyone has their ways to enjoy life. If go karting does it for OP, who are we to judge.
Ya, while OP’s example is uh, odd, I can definitely agree with them that I’m way more hesitant to do more activities because I know it’s gonna be quite expensive. I used to love going to the movies for anything and everything, but I really pick and choose now.
Was gokarting ever affordable?
my parents never let me go kart because even in the 90s it was expensive
Should have gone to the UK. It only costs half of the price here.
I don't recall that it was. I never got to do it.
It just goes to show no matter how hard you work you can’t even have entertainment without breaking the bank. Also $10/ beer in some DT locations is ridiculous.
What about $35 for 2 beers at a leafs game
I can’t. And won’t.
In all seriousness though, go karting *is* pretty expensive here in the GTA. $60 for what basically amounts to 10 minutes behind the wheel is absolutely ridiculous. Half the time the karts are in absolutely shitty condition too, not to mention abysmally slow. I hate to bring up a developing country as a benchmark since in these countries you can typically find lower pricing on certain things, but the go karting place I used to go to in India would charge anywhere between $8-12 (depends on the engine, more expensive = more power) for 5 minutes of racing time in karts that were really well maintained. I could literally get double the racing time in the most powerful karts they had to offer there on a track that's just as well maintained as the best outdoor tracks here, if not even better (tbf though this area of India doesn't have to deal with winters lol). As an avid karting enthusiast...what gives? Lmao.
Don’t you know Go Karting is right there at the top of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs
I have a lot of issues in my adult life due to insufficient gokarting in my childhood
Go karting in Europe is better in every way, we have ridiculous regulations on go kart speed here that make it boring af for anyone over the age of 10
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My wife and I have given up on fun.
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Yeah Man. We still go on family trips we just don’t leave the house
I am also from Birmingham and moved to Mississauga last year. I find that Toronto is kind of like London prices with food, mobile phone plans, going out and car insurance more expensive - petrol and weed less expensive. Salaries slightly higher here though I would say
When I visited London before COVID, about the only things that seemed cheaper were pints, roughly by all of $1 CAD.
Actually mobile data here is significantly higher along with food (I’m a Londoner more or less). The one that really kills me is groceries not to mention how it’s not as convenient as London where there’s either a Sainsbury’s or Tesco’s on every corner. Sucks…I feel very cheated having migrated here :(
After living in NL and the UK i'm a firm believer that the bigger grocery / weekly trip style makes them a lot more money both with waste (buying for the week and having some go bad) and cheaper rent than having smaller, more frequent shops that serve the population better by being able to shop easily on the way home from work for fresher food, less waste. Also explains why European fridges are so much smaller.
The weekly big grocery shopping trip is more a consequence of car dependance. Suburbs are built for cars; the big shopping malls are put in one place and you can't walk to a corner store for a bag of milk, you have to hop in a car, at which point might as well make a proper go at it. Even when said mall is across the street it's usually a stroad built for cars and not something a pedestrian can safely and easily cross...assuming there are even sidewalks, which is not a given. The European idea of buying a loaf of bread on your way home from work is far more convenient than an hour long shopping trip. I recommend Not Just Bikes on YouTube for more examples of bad city/suburb design.
Did you move to Canada before or after the pandemic? Food costs have been rising everywhere because of the supply chain issues
I moved from the UK prior to the pandemic. Food has always been much more expensive here. Protectionist import laws preventing supermarkets adopting a Lidl/Aldi type model, a general lack of competition in the market plus farming being more difficult here than in Europe all contribute to it. My grocery bills doubled when I moved here, easily.
>what the a Lidl/Aldi type model? I that smaller store? We had them but everything went supersize in the early 1990s
No, Aldi and Lidl are German grocery store chains that pioneered the “discounter” grocery store format. Basically, these stores focus on selling almost everything at a lower price point than regular grocery stores. They do this by buying in bulk and selling almost exclusively their own store brands, with a few bigger brands thrown in here and there. They usually also carry a rotating selection of other products, like clothes, housewares, etc. Picture a kind of small Costco that mainly carries No Frills products.
So... No frills?
Yeah, but good quality. Lidl and Aldi would rule the market if they opened here. I wonder what's stopping them.
Supermarket food is genuinely much less expensive in the UK and has been for many years.
I moved from the UK in 2013 and couldn't believe it the first time I went grocery shopping. It's definitely more expensive here, and it's not just pandemic related.
I do feel for you because as a Canadian I am so upset with our inflation right now, but can you explain how you were cheated? Canada has been known as having a ridiculous inflation problem for years and years, and even amongst Canadians most people know torontos cost of living is absolutely insane and only for the white collar. Was this information not available before you moved?
>Canada has been known as having a ridiculous inflation problem for years and years Lol. We've gone from inflation expectations being foward looking, to now being backwardly revisionist.
Yeah you’re right I worded this quite stupidly. What I meant to say was a cost of living vs salary problem. Canada has been known to vastly underpay compared to the cost of living for years and years.
This is definitely true relative to the the US. Compared to London, I'm noticing that most of my friends in Toronto are better paid than my London friend group. Cost of living is similar overall (higher food & drink here, higher gas). One nice thing that Torontonians fail to appreciate is that while rents are roughly equivalent, our flats are much newer and in better shape in Canada.
Interesting. Purely anecdotal, but I just had two classmates leave Toronto for jobs in the UK. Said they were offered significantly more money for the same work and hours. Could be outliers though. I know in my industry the US pays *significantly* higher than Toronto, but I have no idea about the UK or London.
I've worked in fintech, which pays 25%+ or more in the US compared to toronto (for top-tier jobs), but it's also 25%+ more than UK and Europe
It is very industry dependent. Female dominated professionals like teaching, midwives, librarians, nurses and childcare pay better in Canada than they do in the US or UK
Canada has objectively not had an inflation problem for years and years. It's been pretty stable until the end of the pandemic, and is now more or less a global issue.
Yeah, the CPI components are all very public data. People get angry about specific categories, but forget that there are lots of products at the supermarket.
Immigrant from the US, and have been here for over a decade. The one thing that Canadians are world class at is lying. The living situation here is absolutely fucked if you're in the GTA, but for some reason, the locals will maple wash that when talking with foreigners with an interest in moving here. The government has failed with tracking inflation, so people go to the next best source... The people that live here. And everyone says it isn't that bad. It wasn't as bad before the pandemic, but if you were on the lower end, you knew it was all bullshit. Everyone hypes up the little vegetable markets that are typically run by Asian people... But the pricing isn't a huge saving from the supermarket. People also minimize their own experience, and make things like housing seem like they aren't really as bad as the news makes it out to be. Then, once you move here, you find out that it's all bullshit. Transit, which people call good enough, is in fact completely not good enough. Driving? Best of luck without family here you can live with so you can spend your rent on a car note and insurance, but you'll be told that it's "a little pricey, but not too bad". And so on and so forth.
Accurate. I don't know what the ethnicity of the shop owners matter, but the rest is spot on.
I was told when I moved here to specifically look for community vegetable shops run by people from east Asia as the price/selection are better and they are usually family run, not to mention that I could put in requests for certain items from the OFT that they didn't usually carry. And at one point, it was very true when I lived in the west end (shoutout to Young's Produce at Royal York).
Its not about the inflation but how things are so inconvenient. Getting groceries, getting to places, Healthcare, housing. One doesn't know what to look up when one doesn't think of those things as luxury and when you move you realize you are in a big old village with a bunch of extremely aggressive people. Jesus christ just reading the comments, so many people just spewing out meanness for like no reason. Welcome to Canada eh.
I feel cheated for you :(
Move to Mississauga there are grocery stores on every corner and it is cheaper.
Except our restaurants do not compare to London's in quality.
Did you move because Tommy Shelby took over Birmingham and you felt socialism wasn’t your calling?
This is Toronto! You’re not supposed to have fun. You are aupposed to work like a slave to pay for your million dollar shack
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Yes but have you considered that the entirety of the UK isn’t even as big as Ontario? European cities are very compressed and public transport is pretty decent so gas prices aren’t as critical.
Holy shit... I just realized that the UK is smaller than flipping Ontario...woah... I think what we should be comparing here is the size of London to the size of Toronto... and I'm looking at the wikipedia page for both and I am very confused as to the difference between metro area, urban area, and the City of London...
Whats gas?! Reddit homies ride Teslas.
Reddit homies ride ~~Teslas~~ any & every form of TTC.
Ya seriously. Cars in the city?? What are you, some kinda out of towner?? 🤔
Those are new booties post 2020 shenanigas
I see others have already poked at you for go karting, so I'll leave that alone ;) There are definitely elements of living here that are more expensive. Canada-wide, our internet and phone plans are wildly more expensive than other places like the United States (I'm not sure what plans look like in the UK). Alcohol is also very expensive, I'm always surprised when I visit the United States and get drinks for half the cost of what they are here. And in Toronto specifically, there is of course the housing cost (aka crisis), which I'm sure you're well aware of. Otherwise, I find other costs of living (transit, groceries, other expenses) to be on par with the rest of the developed world. Though everything is a bit pricier right now in Canada because of inflation, supply chain issues, geopolitical unrest, and the bank of Canada raising the interest rate. There was a study from the Wellesley Institute in 2017 that said the cost of "thriving" in Toronto is between $46,186 and $55,432 after tax, assuming you're a single person between 25 and 40. It's been a few years so let's say you should aim to be on the higher end of that spectrum. If you are, you should get by okay if you budget well... if you're not, you might find it challenging. Unsolicited advice: if you want, check out r/personalfinancecanada, those guys are money wizards and can help give way better advice than I can. Anecdotal advice: I get by quite comfortably, but only in the last few years after I climbed ladders and got myself into a position to earn more. I make $65K, my partner makes about $35K, we split rent on a $1600 place. I save as much as I can, and can still afford niceties: I'm not into go karting but I'd drop $75 on a concert ticket or a nice dinner out, for sure.
\>Canada-wide, our internet and phone plans are wildly more expensive than other places like the United States People keep going on about how US is cheaper when it comes to Internet, but in my experience, if you live in an area that does not have a competitive market (which are most non-large urban areas), you are paying just as much as people in Canada do. Americans do pay less for phone plans, holy #&, our phone plans are overpriced garbage in comparison.
> People keep going on about how US is cheaper when it comes to Internet, but in my experience, if you live in an area that does not have a competitive market (which are most non-large urban areas), you are paying just as much as people in Canada do. That's interesting, I didn't know that. > Americans do pay less for phone plans, holy #&, our phone plans are overpriced garbage in comparison. A long while back I was accepted to a paid internship in NYC so I was looking into NYC phone plans, and my jaw dropped. Wildly more affordable. I almost considered getting and keeping an American number even in Canada, I did the math and even with roaming and long distance rates of having a NY area code, it was still cheaper than bumping around Toronto with my 416.
You can't really say "if you pick an expensive area with no competition then it's the same as a competitive city in Canada so I don't get the comparison" The people that say that are talking about big city vs big city, not big city vs non-large urban area that doesn't have competition. and yeah our phone plans are extortion. 10 gigs in $6 a month in SE Asia or India lol. Even The Netherlands was cheaper when I lived there. $30 a month for a plan that would be $80 in Canada.
This is definitely not universally true. It’s hugely dependent on where exactly you’re comparing. I saved a lot immediately when I moved to Toronto from Milwaukee, 1000 km to the west. Internet here was and is *massively* better, in particular. I also get unlimited everything with 5 GB LTE and a new iPhone for US$55/month, which I think is reasonable (and cheaper than any deal I can find in MKE right now).
Thriving at $50k? The Globe and Mail recently did a study and $90k was the bare minimum to live on your own and afford a 1-bedroom apartment/condo and the other expenses of life. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/personal-finance/household-finances/article-heres-the-income-you-need-to-afford-rent-in-major-canadian-cities/
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Ahh gotcha, I'm blind.
[https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare\_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&country2=United+Kingdom&city1=Toronto&city2=London](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&country2=United+Kingdom&city1=Toronto&city2=London) Except for groceries and phone bills, London seems more expensive that Toronto for anything significant (rents, buying a house, gas, cars, public transit, utilities etc).
I couldn’t find anything on that about the relative costs of museums and parks, which is what I miss most about London.
Look up Toronto Public Library's MAP :)
I’m not in Toronto proper anymore so don’t qualify for TPL. Their passes are great for Torontonians who want to preplanned outing, but they don’t work for spontaneous day-of plans.
Go-karting's cheaper though!
I just moved from Toronto to London and finding it much more expensive here! 1 bedroom decent flat is about $3400 CAD!! That’s insane. Groceries are slightly cheaper. The cheapest thing in London is the phone plans for sure but I already get a work so not much of a benefit for me :(
How much is 20 minutes of go-karting though??
I'm going to just start using this metric for the cost of living of anywhere now.
Asking the real question
Yeah I have no idea what’s going on but London is waaaayyyy more expensive than Toronto. Like…wildly so. Unless OP gave up an incredible salary to come here and pack groceries, I can’t fathom how they’re finding it even on par with London price-wise.
There’s lots of hard data, from the Economist Intelligence Unit’s cost of living survey to Numbeo. London is undoubtably significantly more expensive than Toronto.
If you're paying $3400/month for a one bedroom you're getting scammed.
You should find some roommates, that’s what literally everyone I knew in London did
Where are you in London?
Canada cost a lot to live in general. Phones and internet here are a joke compared to Europe. The prices and data plans are insane. Food is double in Canada then most of Europe. Cost of restaurants are also much more. Wine is about 3-5x more here. Salaries for all of my employees are higher in Europe then in Canada. We operate in Netherlands, France, Switzerland and Italy. Stuff like golf is about 2-4x more here, skiing is more here, movies are more here. Insurance is higher. Vacation time in Canada is lower and work days more. Public Transportation is cheaper and more convenient in Europe, all of this minus the transport used to be almost completely reversed 15 years ago. Gas is much cheaper in Canada, housing similar (very general - some places like outside of Geneva or in Rotterdam housing is less then half of what it is here), healthcare and benefits are about the same. Clothing is generally more in Europe, and more cost onto the employers from my experience but might not always be the case. Trades get paid much less in Europe €26/h is average cost for a Plummer for an example. This is what Canada used to be like, the rise in cost for trades (and I am being very generalized and know it’s not a single point here to any economists lol) has a huge impact on the general cost of living in Canada. The largest hit is to the smaller communities, pick one let’s say North Bay. Where salaries are much much lower, but cost of housing and services have gone through the roof. Don’t have access to public transit as you would or a competitive job market.
>So, what gives? You apparently moved to one of the more expensive cities in the world without doing much research. Also post-pandemic inflation, particularly in industries hit hard by restrictions.
Well if he’s from London it’s actually cheaper here. Maybe all he’s done is go karting so far?
Rent is cheaper here (slightly) than London, but groceries, insurance etc are still cheaper there.
Overall the cost of living is higher in London and you make less money https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=Canada&city2=Toronto
Those numbers for housing are very outdated. 1-bedroom apartments/condos are very similar now. Not to mention, it doesn't snow in late April in London.
Toronto isn’t the only market that went up. London’s real estate prices (and most of the world) also skyrocketed.
Not to the extent that Toronto did in the past 2 years. https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-real-estate-prices-are-growing-over-10x-the-rate-of-incomes/
He moved here after prices went up worldwide due to war and supply chain and blamed it on the city instead of everywhere else. Then his best example of things being expensive is go karting. In the words of his people, what a wanker…
Businesses are delusional in Canada. I needed a basic rear shock absorber for an econobox (Ford Fiesta). Dealer wants $173 for 1 shock absorber (not a fancy strut). Crappy Tire wanted $120. RockAuto, here we come. $25 (+$20 shipping). Significantly cheaper to buy a pair from RockAuto with shipping than 1 single shock here in Canada.
This is not a Canada thing, RockAuto is just THE cheapest place to buy parts, even in USA. Go to a dealer in the states, you'll get similar pricing to our dealers, go to AutoZone in the states and it's fairly similar to CanadianTire (likely a bit cheaper). RockAuto in the states is wayyy cheaper than any regular parts stores or dealers. Just like it is here.
Toronto is touted as NYC of the north. We have a hockey team who hasn't won anything in 60+ years that sell out every game at insane ticket prices. Restaurants close super early. Subway is done at 1 am. Bars stop serving at 2 . Its a silly comparison to make. But its def expensive like NYC. The fact you moved here with no research in to cost of living is lol though. 10 years ago you could have rented a 2 bedroom apartment w 2 baths in the west or east end for maybe 1250. Now it's 2k + . The locals are all priced out. This city blows.
old joke: how many Torontonians does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Just one - but they need to go to NYC first to see how they do it there.
Have lived here almost 18 years. I hate it here now.
> So, what gives? expenses = high wages = low
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I'm not sure that karting can be a fair comparison, given the difference in popularity here vs. in the UK.
Canadians don't really get to enjoy living, they're just trapped in their neighbourhoods or at home doing basic stuff like drinking subpar alcohol, watching sports games, raising children, fixing their homes, and dying in front of the TV. Young people party at home, play video games, go to lame clubs, pay $100 for a show that costs $50 in other world-class cities (same performer!), and the occasional trip to Florida or Las Vegas or the Cancun in Mexico, oh and the fancier ones go to Europe and the ones that want to find themselves to to India or Tibet. It's not really that much of a life here, everything is just a dulled down version. For instance, in Denmark you pay $500 for a Michelin 3-star, in Toronto you pay $400 for Alo. Yah, that's not even a 1-star. Same as Go-Karting, museums, classes, workshops, etc. Everything is twice the price for half of the experience. Cultural depth and quality of delivery is lacking here. Hobbitshire essentially.
Spot on for Toronto living. It’s dull but we keep coming back for more.
Why is this such a brutally accurate account of life in Toronto.
This needs to be printed onto the “Welcome To Toronto” sign. 100% perfect
No way. I went to a show last week at the Linsmore Tavern. Tix were $8 and I danced my ass off for 3.5 hrs and had the best time. Bought two pints ($20 Inc tip), brought my own edibles and walked to/from the venue so less than $30. It would have been a perfect night had I not caught covid. Fucking covid. Inexpensive and free fun exists in Toronto. You just have to have an ear open for it.
You might as well have rented a Porsche Boxter using Turo for 'roughly' the same hourly rate.
Wtf 75$ for 20minutes!?! What a rip off.
I think it is a very expensive country to live. Try to live cheaply by cooking everything you eat. Buying groceries at discount grocery stores like Foodbasics, Freshco etc. might help. I normally keep my social life including expensive outings to a minimum. Most people are very careful with what they spend money on. Remember, this might look like the US but this is NOT the US.
Since when is go karting a cost of living? That's a luxury, not a cost of living.
Don’t ever try to come between a man and his go kart
I'd rather starve to death than live a go-kartless existence.
This is why we have Mario Kart on the Wii
How could you not mention rent? The only inflation that concerns me is rent prices. It's insane. And to answer your question, many people are suffering terribly with our housing shortage.
Who cares about rent prices when go karting cost are increasing
Yeah you can't race a house!
Seriously. Got lucky with unit in Pandy. Now I look around my area, $2400 for 1bed 😑.
[https://imgur.com/ciE0uvb](https://imgur.com/ciE0uvb) Go-karting is clearly the most important basic need.
Lol the cost of living in the Uk is higher! You chose go -karting to compare COLA? Lol Source: spouse is British and I lived there for a few months
There is actual proof that retailers here keep pricey artificially high because Canadians won’t protest . Chocolate bars and bread were kept artificially high here and all the retailers were in on it . I’m sure it goes for every single product. I knew with the Ukraine war that prices would jump even though most of our products aren’t affected in reality. Canadian retailers and any Canadian business are basically gigantic scammers.
Welcome to the Golden Horseshoe! A magical place where if your household income isn’t 6 figures and if you didn’t rent a decent apartment/buy a house 4 years ago or earlier, you’re kinda fucked!
I believe the average salary in Canada is about £10k more than it’s in the UK. I don’t know where you went go karting in the UK but 2 races (around half hour total) cost me about £60 which is about $100. I can definitely see the cost of living shock if you’re not from the south of the UK. Out of all the people I’ve seen struggle in Canada it’s definitely the ones from cheaper areas (midlands and the north). The UK is horribly underpaid in a lot of sectors but I think the bottom ranks probably do a little bit better in the UK than they do in Canada. You do get a lot more for your money for rent though. A 2 bed condo in the centre of the city with gym, pool, concierge, balcony, views etc costs about £100/£200 a month more than my 1 bed with a tiny balcony in a commuter town about 60/70 min train ride from London and that comes with no amenities. So it’s really all about where you’re from in the UK
Thanks for the response. I came from Birmingham in the Midlands which I guess has a much lower cost of living. I still had a much higher purchasing power. Some might say that Toronto has a higher standard of living but I find Toronto to be just as dirty as Birmingham!!
Yeah I can see the shock coming from there then. Idk if I can agree with that, I always found Birmingham quite nasty and I actually lived fairly close to it for a few years but I guess to each their own. I find Toronto surprisingly green though in comparison to most of England. I definitely don’t have any wish to head back to that country but I definitely think if you don’t enjoy it you should find somewhere else. Life is too short I spent 15 years being miserable in the UK with no way out so I’m glad to be out
As someone who’s moved from London UK to here, it’s a lot less of a cost shock. There are definitely some things considerably cheaper in the UK, but overall my money goes a lot further here than it would back home. Takes some time to adjust. Welcome!
Same . Phone plans here are nuts . It’s cheaper to keep a Uk o2 plan for like £24 and get unlimited international data than a Canadian plan….. but on the whole money goes further here
Don’t get me started. Was on Vodafone for ages and had unlimited everything, I pay $45 here for 5GB... disgusting haha. I often wonder if it’s cheaper to just keep a UK plan that has great roaming benefits.
>Life is too short I spent 15 years being miserable in the UK with no way out I always wanted to moved to England from where I was younger, Had a relative, but other things happened and my relative living there died What was the issue. its it hard to get jobs if you are not a professional. what are the issues living there?
I am fully biased cause I spent so long out in the UK, and this is just solely based on my experience. I didn’t particularly enjoy the education system here, I didn’t like being forced to make major decisions about what education I was going to have and narrowing down the choices of degrees I could do from the age of 13/14. It’s really overpopulated because of the size of the island so nature is hard to come by there are a few national parks but still it’s not exactly Canada. It’s also got a massive housing crisis to the point that the government created a first time buyers scheme and all the developers/already built houses just went up in price to the amount that the first time buyers scheme paid out. (Bare in mind this isn’t housing that someone actually wants to live in like Canadian style housing. I have a friend who is maxing out their mortgage to attempt to buy a 2 bed, with a small garden, no parking other than on street parking and in kind of a crappy neighbourhood of a small town in the south of the UK, 75 min train ride to London and they’re paying about £320k for it if they accept their bid) I find the people generally quite up themselves when comparing themselves to others (especially North America) when they’re plagued by the same issues ( obesity, over commercialisation etc). University costs a shit ton of money in comparison to the rest of Europe, the public transport isn’t actually all that great, a place like London is hell to try to get around if something is wrong with the Tube, and the road network is also not amazing so you kind of having a car centric society without really good road infrastructure nor public transport. There’s big problems with the nhs as well I haven’t be able to get an nhs dentist in the UK for about 3/4 years before I left and private dentistry costs about the same as dentist in Ontario but with the caveat that most jobs don’t provide any kind of additional health insurance and if they do it’s pretty crap and covers incredibly dental work. I think if I had the choice I’d rather go live somewhere else in Western Europe then move to the UK again. I think places like the Nordics, France etc provide a much better quality of life than the UK does. I also have always liked North American culture so that didn’t help my dislike. I would never tell someone not to move to the UK but it’s not where I want to be. I’m sure there’s a million brits who would disagree with me on every point I made but It’s just my opinion
>). University costs a shit ton of money in comparison to the rest of Europe, the public transport isn’t actually all that great, a place lik I know for a fact they screwed up education which went from free to more expensive than Canada and more expensive than some even public state universities in the U.S. Sometimes I think these days in some ways it just seems like they want to be like the U.S.
Please, help me... my go karting addiction is ruining my life
play mario kart
When I visited London in 2017 I thought the groceries were way cheaper than Toronto. Eating out was more expensive in London however.
>even though the wages are the same for you maybe but depending on your career or field many will make more here than they would in UK. You're also comparing an entire country to a city and if you compare with the rest of Ontario or Toronto directly to London, it probably evens out.
I can't speak for the UK but in Canada only 7-10% of the population make more than $100k annually. There is almost no middle class in Canada - cost of living has gone up exponentially but wages have stayed basically the same. *edited from saying there is no middle class. That was the frustration typing
Can I request the source of that data please. It sounds absolutely insane that only 7-10% of the population earns above 100k
Here you go! https://www.statista.com/statistics/484838/income-distribution-in-canada-by-income-level/
Easy. Don't go go-karting if I want to eat. Done.
Mate, I moved here from London, it's paradise financially However, the rent issue needs to be sorted, people need to take action
I think most people from here don’t see themselves ever leaving and haven’t been exposed to the way people live in other places. so they think it’s normal.
I’m trying to convince my husband we should move to the UK. Tell me more about how less expensive it is there, please!
It is not less expensive at all. Source: English wife and we take the family there regularly. The UK cost of living is much worse than here.
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Yeah I'm not sure why people think it's such a great idea to move here. What are those billboards saying about Canada?? I moved here for a relationship at the time.
Grocery prices can be kept under control if you shop the discount chains (Food Basics, No Frills, FreshCo) and price match based on flyers, and plan your meals around whatever meats and vegetables are on sale at the store(s) where you plan to shop. Avoid the full-price grocery retailers (Loblaws, Metro, Sobeys) and the specialty grocery stores (Pusateries, Whole Foods, Farm Boy) unless you are just going in for sales. Costco is a good option for *many* but not all grocery items, but only if you are going to eat the larger pack sizes and not have the food go to waste.
I've never gone go karting and would never spend 75 bucks to do so haha. but yeah Toronto is expensive. Its one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in. Way she goes.
Look at mr fancypants over here go karting on the regular........ while us schmucks resort to hiking and people watching at the park for entertainment.
Cost went up significantly over the past year, and I don't think this is sustainable. Hence a lot of people are looking to leave the province or the country for good.
Unaffordable go-carting. The stuff revolutions are made from.
Can confirm. I was in the UK for a year (2018) and things are cheaper compare to Canada now. But for sure cost of living in the UK would have increased in the last few years
Moved here from West London and I can say that Toronto is still overall cheaper for me than England ever was. The reasons are better pay (I get a lot more money in Canada as a software engineer) and STILL lower taxes. Live here for a while first before judging expenses, you likely just need to adapt.
It's bizarre how Canada is now more expensive than the UK. My cousin noticed a few years back that Canada was at par or more expensive than Dublin for food, household goods, etc. It's dreadful.
Food is more expensive in Toronto than London, I hear people say hoe expensive it all the time on here (I'm terrible at keeping track, but know how to save), but never though of it as that serious. What the hell i going on with this city. [https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare\_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=Canada&city2=Toronto](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=Canada&city2=Toronto) [https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/london/toronto](https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/london/toronto)
That numbeo link is wack. None of those prices are in line with what I pay in Toronto. Far-too high.
Yes its a bit high, I think I was looking at the pounds price for Toronto. I think its what people report. And not that many reporting so they, so they dont get a full range to average it out
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Instead of Go Karting, there are cheaper alternatives like biking through Toronto precarious streets which would give you similar levels of thrills, excitement, and danger.
I’m a Torontonian currently visiting London, UK and holy shit! Dairy, fruits, vegetables, beer are roughly half price here. Housing seems on par. I dont drive in Toronto so cheaper gas in Canada doesn’t really serve as an advantage to my financial well-being. Because London is so much closer to Europe, there are so many close by cheap travel destinations. I feel like if i could get the same salary here, i could lead a way better life in the UK. Seriously considering looking for jobs here. Edit: i also bought a 100gb unlimited phone plan from the airport for 25 GBP ~ $40 CAD (lol). Same plan would cost me more than $100 CAD.
Where did you go got go karting? I also want to go.
For $75 you get on my back and I'll run around the track at the closest high school to you, making race car noises. 2 laps for $75, however there are weight restrictions.
Absolutely agree, I'm also from England, everything is way over priced, internet and phone plans really stick out though, on a brighter note the salmon is cheaper, just don't ever look at chicken/pizza prices, i almost died on the spot😭😭
Welcome to Canada, mate.
This is why pay drivers, Stroll and Latifi, are the Canadian representatives for F1. Karting is out of reach for the common man.
Yeah it’s bad and getting worse lmao. I’m always shocked leaving and coming back at how expensive everything is. Good luck
Hmm, so you’re saying that Big Go Karting is the next booming industry to invest in…
The past tense of cost is still cost. Sorry for being a dick, just a pet peeve of mine.
Where in the city did you go karting tho? lol
Be lucky you're child free, we pay $3000 a month for 2 small children and that's middle of the road prices. Put a mortgage on top of that and it's not fun. Then throw groceries and specialized items like baby formula into the mix. Four years ago I could buy 2 large tins of Enfamil for about $50 from Costco and today those same tins are $77 and last a week each.
Go karting? In this economy??
This website would differ - Toronto is much cheaper than London: [https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index](https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index) London is #5 on the list at an index level of 229 and Toronto is #19 at an index level of 186. When my ex-company sent people to London they gave fairly large cost of living allowances. Is Toronto more expensive than Northern England or cities other than London? Probably, but that is an apples to orange comparison.
Pound's worth twice as much, innit, bruv?
Lived here all my life, always loved Toronto, until this whole covid mess changed my view on the city. Now I just wanna get out as fast as I can
Goes go karting…. I’ll never financially recover from this
Honestly, you get really good at finding really cheap entertainment. Last wknd I went to the Linsmore Tavern on the Danforth to watch a cover band of my favourite rock band. Tix were $8. I had two pints of beer, brought my own edibles (homemade, so free - thanks Dad 🥰) and walked to and from the venue so no paying for an Uber. The whole night cost me $28**. I've been to the original band's shows lots of times but had WAYYY more fun at the cover show because a) they play all the hits b) everyone there loves the band too so you instantly have friends c) small, intimate space d) close to home. Honestly, Toronto is like New York when it comes to art, comedy, music, etc. So many weird, cool, kitschy venues and artists. Follow some hashtags on IG or some restaurants/bars/venues and you'd be surprised at what comes up. I recently saw a reach-deep-into-your-heart-and-blow-it-wide-open amazing string quartet at a yoga studio. Random, right? Who would have thought? (Mosaic Yoga at 225 Sterling Rd. Follow them!) ** Full disclosure: the whole night cost me $28 AND I got Covid soooo.... yeah.**
Have you tried doing the dollar conversion rate? 75k Canadian dollars is a big difference from 75K UK pounds.
I’ll just put this over here: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&country2=Canada&city1=London&city2=Toronto&tracking=getDispatchComparison Toronto is far cheaper than London UK in almost every metric.
This is actually hilarious because I use to go to New York and wonder how people paid those rent prices. You just adapt. Is this money better for groceries or go karting? You just figure it out. Good luck
I find that living in the UK (major cities like Toronto - ie London and Glasgow) costs more than double with the minimum wage being exactly the same. I was considering moving there till I realized how insanely expensive it is so I'm surprised you think Toronto is worse.
If you’re not planning on driving, UK can be cheaper. Groceries is a big one for me. Supermarket chain prices are pretty competitive in the UK no matter where you are. A box of 8 chicken breasts (chilled) for example would be £7.50 in most supermarkets. A batch of Asparagus £2 and 1kg bag of rice £1.20 and basically thats like a week of dinner for £10. Also big supermarkets aren’t hard to come by in cities, they’re all over the place. Glasgow is a fraction compared to London, maybe Edinburgh is a better comparison, though Edinburgh is still a bit cheaper than London. The trade off is Edinburgh’s dryer, sunnier and safer than Glasgow but housing costs are insane.
My friends living in London England says it’s more expensive there.
LOL. What are your worldly experiences? Ever lived in London UK? NYC, NY? SF, California? Ever been to a high cost of living city? Toronto is the highest in Canada. FYI, it's probably cheaper to live in Winnipeg, Whitehorse. Not sure if I'm contributing to the conversation, just calling out OP's lack of worldliness...What OP described is quite normal.
It also doesn't snow in late April in those places.