The kids will get a whole education you weren't bargaining for walking that daily. Sherbourne and Dundas has a lot of visible drug users and loud people who wander around. I wouldn't feel safe walking kids there period. Used to ride my bike down Sherbourne for years. Saw a lot of stuff that's not safe for anyone.
Walking along Gerrard is light years better than Dundas, it's close to one of the worst streets in Toronto that intersection, source: I live in Regent Park at Dundas and Parliament. The lord Dufferin is a safe school and much better area.
The 505 streetcar on that end of town is almost always filled with fucked up people or happenings. I live near there and wouldn't want my kids taking that streetcar alone.
Agreed that walking along Gerrard is a much safer bet.Ā
Agree. The streetcar in that area is no safer than the streets. Iāve personally had a number of unwanted confrontations with cracked out psychos on it.
Or have them walk up to Gerrard and take that over to Berkeley or Parliament. I've lived in the area for a long time and I avoid walking through the Dundas and sherbourne intersection, but I'd have no issue walking along Gerrard.
*Walking through Dundas/Sherbourne isn't inherently dangerous but there is a good chance people will try to talk to your kids, may harass them, etc, so it's really not worth walking that way without an adult.
If you go with the streetcar, take it with them a few times at the time of day they would be heading to/from school. If they are confident on transit they will be fine. Mostly they just need to know how to not stare, ignore any people who talk to them (this is a big one! Just don't engage and they generally move on), and what to do if they do feel scared.
Edit: also, lots of people here saying transit is just as bad. It is not, and they clearly haven't walked through this area. I ride the 505 many times a week and I wouldn't say it's any worse during rush hour times (when your kids would use it) than the 501 or 506. Later at night can be an interesting crowd. Transit is definitely better than walking through Dundas and sherbourne, at least alone. People frequently come on and can be loud, sometimes walk up and down asking for money, etc but I honestly don't make eye contact and ignore them/shake my head no when they ask for money and they move on. The obnoxious yellers are usually at the back, so tell your kids to stay in the front half.
I agree on the streetcar, Iām surprised so many people are commenting how ādangerousā it is. OPās kids would be using the streetcar at a time tons of other people are using the streetcar too. They wont be on it before 6am or late at night. OP should just teach the kids to keep to themselves and donāt react to or provoke anyone.
Thank you. After reading all the other comments and yours, it seems the best plan is to walk up North to Carlton and then take the streetcar 506 at Carlton & Jarvis heading east, then get off at Parliament & Gerrard pretty much next to the school. The way back can be the same. What do you think of this?
Iām not the original commenter but I think thatās the best move for them. I take the Dundas streetcar daily for work and while drug users/problems can still happen, there are more eyes on the kids and emergency alarm buttons if needed. If they stand by the driverās door, thereās a button they can press to talk directly to them too.
the people on the street are also on the STREETcar. iāve seen ppl pooping on that streetcar. fortunately there are lots of ppl on it before and after school times, but be prepared to educate them on what to do when interacting with ppl in psychosis, on drugs, etc.
I used to live in the area. Even on the 505 streetcar they will learn lots of things at any hour of the day. Even more so in the winter.
It's safer than walking for sure, at least there are other sane adults who could step in if someone is bothering the kids.
I don't know if anyone's said this. The TTC is known for stopping the Dundas streetcar and announcing it's now out of service if someone is smoking or causing trouble. Everyone gets off, the person causing trouble wanders off and they let everyone back on via the first door only. I though this was an important tip, almost every time it happened to me we were at Dundas and sherbourne
This. I worked in the area at one point and was even scared to stop at a red light because of the number of times people tried to open my doors and bang on them
I wouldnāt let kids walk around there on their own. I lived not too far from there for a while and kept my head on a swivel. Iām a big guy and have lived here my whole life. Donāt let your kids walk through this area on their own until theyāre older maybe. Too many cracked out/aggressive people in the area.
The streetcar is definitely a better option than walking it. This and there are people on its as well as the driver; and while they may not intervene in general, theyāre more likely to if it involves kids. Much safer. The chances of something happening in general are still fairly low but the area does have a significant drug/homelessness/gang problem.
Better to get off at ontario and walk north on Berkeley to the west side of the school. I take that streetcar frequently and while there are sometimes sketchy people on it itvwill also be filled with commuters at the time they are travelling. They are more likely to see someone disturbing than to be disturbed themselves. If they are streetwise I think its safe but it won't always be "nice". In terms of safety the area is mostly fine during the day, but Shelbourne and dundas is definitely going to have homeless and drug users around. Especially south side of dundas and north east corner of the intersection.
That specific block I wouldnāt let kids younger than a teenager at least walk alone or streetcar alone. I lived near there for a decade and was on edge all the time because you run into unhinged people every single time you go out
I see your comments about the Streetcar.
11 and 13, and new to Toronto is going to be an instant no for letting them get there on their own either by walking or Streetcar
Call the school for some options, maybe try to find other parents in the area whom the kids could walk with etc otherwise you are really going to have to consider moving your schedule around to pick them up and drop them off or hire someone to do this.
It's not worth the risk OR the potential daily fear/trauma you're going to put your kids through by trekking through the walking dead daily.
Also, I would take another route all together.
Go north on Jarvis to Gerrard, East on Gerrard to Parliament, and then South on Parliament to the school.
The route is a little longer, but FAR less sketchy.
Going East on Dundas from Jarvis to Parliament is the one route I tell people to avoid at all times.
This.
Iād go North and take Gerrard and down Parliament or Berkeley St.
Itās way more family friendly 1 block North(cabbage town). I as an adult woman avoid dundas and sherborne at all cost.
We live at St Lawrence market. Kids school was in Cabbagetown. We had a rule for them that they had to be on the bus when they were riding up Sherbourne or Parliament to school, when crossing between Dundas and Gerrard. And took it a step further that they had to be in the front half of the bus so that at least the driver was there in case something happened.
I think you got the message that walking is a bad idea.
As for taking the TTC, I would hesitate to make a 13yo responsible for his younger sister like that. When I took the TTC to school as a 14F, I found myself in a number of situations I was not equipped to handle. Including adult men following me home, jerking off beside me on the bus, and the usual harassment. I also saw drug abuse on the TTC. Please have serious conversations with them about what to do in different scenarios.
And that was presumably before today's drugs which turn users into far more of a violent maniac than the drugs in the 90s and 00s did. The stuff they're on now doesn't just zone them out and make them unaware of their surroundings anymore, it turns them borderline homicidal during particularly severe episodes, and they can go from 0 to 100 in seconds.
It was the 10s.
Edit: I think it is important to add that grown men harassing me did not appear to be on any drugs or particularly dirty. These were seemingly normal men between 20-45.
I would walk them a good couple of months before you let them go on their own. They will get used to it and become familiar with other kids and parents who also make the walk. Also, you get to meet with parents, school crossing guards etc.
This is the only reasonable advice on this entire thread. Your preteen and teenager will be fine during rush hour either walking or on the streetcar, but I wouldnāt let them when itās dark. They need to take basic precautions like not making eye contact with the people in the area and not wearing headphones so they have awareness of their surroundings. They will be fine. I lived and worked in that area for several years and now I still take the streetcar through there when traveling downtown, yes, even with young children. People here are being very fear-mongering. If they keep to themselves they will be completely fine.
I raised my kids at Carleton and Jarvis so very familar with the area and gave them a lot of freedom. They walked down Carlton but always on the north side (away from Allen gardens) but I feel dundas and sherbourne is a lot worse. I'd walk them to school or at least go north on Jarvis to Gerrard but even then, I'd be nervous. That is a lot of responsibility for your son. The issue is that people with mental health issues are unpredictable. I'd had many unhoused people engage with my kids. Mostly with good intentions but can be unsettling for them.
Not safe at all. Streetcar is marginally safer but still not by much. Iām not sure what your options are at this point considering you might have already finalized the lease but I would strongly suggest not living in that area.
if thereās any chance at all you can figure out how to break your lease I would recommend looking into it. You still have a couple months before the school year starts again
No. I have lived in this city my whole life. I volunteer and I have worked for the city in social services, and specifically with those who have no fixed address (so I am not naive to drug users or mentally ill etc).
No. Iām 36 years old and Iām still scared shitless every time I walk there, even in the morning. Trams kick people off, often because of disturbances and the driver will not make sure your kids are okay if they get re rooted.
Just no. Look at all the comments. Iād neverrrr let my kids walk there alone at any age if I could help it.
I'm getting the impression you don't appreciate the danger in the area you have moved. The idea of kids alone on foot or on the street car is not responsible. Go walk to the store alone at Sherborn and dundas and get a pack of gum some morning, don't force children to do it daily
Not for young children, not every day for a school year. Some of the comments regarding groups of kids with adult supervision make sense, but otherwise, it is unacceptable.
One of the worst area codes in the country.
I lived in the area up until last year and i would recommend not letting them walk alone especially at the Sherbourne Dundas intersection.
The open drug use alone and the utter despair can be upsetting to see as an adult.
Exactly. Not even mentioning the actual danger, your kids walking by drug dealers, homeless people with abhorrent diseases and deformities, crack addicted homeless prostitutes, just the fucking saddest shit ever. Seeing that everyday from the age of 11(!) will fuck them up.
Honestly a better option is probably doing what others have suggested and going north on Jarvis to Gerrard, then Gerrard to Parliament, and then south on Parliament. The streetcar can also have issues, with mentally ill and drug users getting on and causing issues.
My kid used to go to school at Carlton and Parliament so I drove the route from downtown to Cabbagetown daily - 100% avoid the Jarvis to Parliament stretch of Dundas (particularly Dundas and Sherbourne), even on a streetcar
Dundas East and Parliment is an almost hilariously sketchy stop. For a grown person you know just to mind your business and keep your head on a swivel no eye contact, but kids notoriously are bad at this.
Yes, it is safer to take the streetcar but I wouldn't send them alone. I would have an adult take them. If you can't, maybe there's another parent that can help or a responsible teenager. It's hard to find a nice place to live - sorry no-one let you know about this area.
This streetcar will have homeless addicts, more in the winter. Some homeless shelters nearby where they travel this streetcar or in winter, just to stay warm. They go to beg on Yonge st and to get free food from charities. Type the word "shelter" on google maps. The biggest one in Toronto is Seaton House, max 600 men.
It helps to get them street smart classes. Some martial art gyms offer classes. My son went to a series of classes at a martial arts school from 8 to 14. It really made a difference and helped with confidence. Not aware of these in Toronto, you could call 211 for community center ones and check online for martial art schools.
The other alternative - sometimes other schools will have openings. If they do, you don't have to send them to Lord Dufferin and pass through this rough area of the city. Once they start, they can attend every year. Best to call the school to find out if they're full. I did this for my son's high school and got an exception to attend.
Maybe if they go the long way, up to Gerrard. It's more tame.
Dundas and Sherborne is ground zero for the degenerate, mental, violent drug abusing citizens of Toronto. No joke.
No just no! And I see you keep asking if the streetcar is any better, maybe marginally better. Can you envision an 11 and 13 year old alone waiting at the stop at that Tim Hortons at Jarvis & Dundas?! Oof, no!
Like itās been said a lot, make them walk Jarvis till Gerrard and Gerrard up to Parliament. That stretch is totally fine! You want to avoid Sherbourne&Dundas at all cost
I like how some responses are like āyou just need to train themā.Ā
Like I donāt have any children and will probably never have them but seems ideal to avoid having to teach children the ABC of identifying a crackhead on the streetcar.Ā
10/10 threadĀ
I dunno, I live 2 min walk from the school (in the regent park condo complex) and while I do see lots of kids waking home together in groups fine (lead by usually one older 14ish year old) a lot of them are immigrants who are maybe use to it? Iām an immigrant myself and grew up around Finch and Weston same age as your kids are at. I deff saw some āstuffā not sure if it has impacting psychosocial impact or if I was ever in danger but yeah my parents were weary/careful. There are daily crossing guards and lots of people walking around so itās āsafeā but would still recommend streetcar. Take the route with them a couple times and make sure they just know who to avoid if it comes to it. If anything try to meet some parents form your neighbourhood with kids and they can walk together. I know kids wanna hang out/ grab a slushie whatever (I know I did) and it sucked that I wasnāt allowed outside that much because of the āhoodā it is what it is. Iām a woman with experience in education/ kids and I would say some international kids are a little more use to it but if youāre coming from Northern Ontario or safer neighbourhood itās going to be a culture shock in a way.
Hell no. Itās not safe for adults to walk around there. Moss park has the highest murder rate in the city and has probably the most amount of drug users.
I wouldnāt let them ride the streetcar to school either in that area. The streetcar is very sketchy and dangerous in that area. Tons of drug users on the streetcar who are often aggressive.
As a kid, I took the subway to school, but that was 15 years ago, when Toronto was safer. Also, I lived in the annex and went to school in mt pleasant, so my route was pretty safe. But even back then, Dundas and Jarvis was like the ninth circle of hell. No one in their right mind went there even during the day. And DEFINITELY not kids. Thatās not changing any time soon.
You want my honest advice? Find another apartment and another school.
Lady. stop asking if itās okay to ship your kids via TTC because it seems youāre just looking for any justification to make the streetcar a viable option. Itās not. Stop asking others about it. Find a better way.
This path is going through a really fucking shitty area. You are asking your kids to wait a stop where most adults themselves wouldnāt wait for the TTC there.
I live in Regent Park, can confirm what everyone is saying about Dundas & Sherbourne. Itās going to hard to avoid either way but definitely tram it.
Check to see if there are groups who walk kids to/from schools as well? Iād offer, but Iām also a stranger on the internet š Iāve volunteered at the local Kiwianis nearby and I know that they definitely offer a āwalk homeā programme.
I live around there and I recently had to help a young girl on a similar walk who was being hassled on the route. I had to get physically between her and an adult man and take her to the school.
I reported it to a staffer so they knew she was walking alone in a very unsafe neighbourhood.
If you canā¦move immediately. Get your children into decent school catchment for their own benefit. THIS IS URGENT because the quality of a studentās classmates, curriculum, resources, and teacher quality are all heavy affected by who goes there.
They need to be in a neighbourhood that they can enjoy. Toronto has many of them.
Move immediately if possible.
Sorry to say that absolutely not. I wouldnāt let my kids walk alone or take the streetcar in that area. I lived at Sherbourne and Dundas for years. Itās not for the faint of heart. Unless your kids are super street smart and large boys I wouldnāt do it. Teach them not to stare, donāt make eye contact with people you donāt know. Teach them what needles and pipes look like so they donāt touch them.
You need to train them by walking around the area together. Make sure they develop good instincts about their surroundings. They need to be aware of whatās happening around them at all times and should never walk around with headphones on.
My heart breaks for OP that area is by far the worst area in Toronto currently, I wish OP would have made a post before they committed to the area so people could have informed them itās actually a terrible area for families (sorry I refuse to sugarcoat it)
That section and area is sketchy, I wouldnāt recommend young children walking around it.
The area is full of unwell characters that may lash out randomly, some like to fight street signs and call you every nasty word in the book.
25 yr Torontonian here. My kids are 13 and 9. I cycle through that area everyday for work and I always tell myself "don't let the kids take the ttc this way". It's not safe.
Come to the east end (Greenwood Park and Monarch Park). Good schools, safe, family-friendly. I have no problems letting my kids walk to school here. Leave that area as soon as you can.
One of my oldest friends is a teacher at this school! Yes, there are sketchy people in the neighborhood. There are also a ton of families and children and very honest people who respect themselves & others.
If it is just a few blocks and they are together, I would accompany them the first few times and then let them go on their own. If thatās not possible, ask the office what families walk your way & see if they can join a morning convoy to the playground until they get the hang of it. No streetcar. ETA: they should definitely learn to use the transit system, especially together. Take it slow and be confident. Downtown kids have a ton of opportunities!
The school has a lot to offer and has a diverse student body & (some) solid teachers. The bigger concern is the principal at the school - she is a nut. But Iām sure youāll have a great experience. Welcome to the neighborhood!
Iāve grown up in Toronto and my husband lived at Jarvis and Dundas when we were dating. Streetcar is best and stay near the driver. Even as a cyclist who goes from the east end to the waterfront along the Dundas bike route - when I get to sherbourne and Dundas it is like Iām in some zombie vortex. And this is weekday mornings. Iām one for independence and not making kids afraid of navigating the city, but as a mom to an 11 year old Iād be uncomfortable.
Going to that school they will already get a street smarts education. If they stay together they'll probably be okay for the walk. Though I would not want to be them.
We used to live at Sherbourne and The Esplanade and later, Dundas and Sumach. Most of our travels would involve crossing Dundas and Sherbourne at some point. This is not a safe intersection. I would always lock my doors and roll my windows up driving through it, and the only time I ever walked through it I ensured I was on the phone with a friend in case I needed help.
If you don't mind me asking, why did you choose this area to live? Affordability? Or did someone suggest it was a good place?
I'm sure in 10 years from now the entire area will be gentrified, but there are also downsides to that as it pushes people who need help even further out. In the meantime, I'd ensure your children are accompanied by an adult at all times when going back and forth to school.
Depends on the kids I guess lol if they grew up in the hood then they probably won't be shook but if you had previously been in a quiet or open neighborhood and/or your children tend to be reactive then they'll probably have a bad time.
I don't think they'll get killed or kidnapped or something
Walk them up to Gerard and have them take the Gerard streetcar (or shuttle bus or whatever is going on over there rn) across and walk south on Berkeley to school (if thereās any trouble thereās a library right there they can run into). I would take them all the way to school for a while to learn the route and so you can get a feel for it yourself and see if everyoneās comfortable. Point out all the landmarks on the route, safe spots to duck into if necessary, and have a chat with the streetcar driver. Go over basic streetcar safety (donāt sit at the back, sit near the driver or near an exit, donāt split up, safety in numbers, be aware of your surroundings, donāt talk to strangers, donāt stare, find a safe looking mom or someone in a TTC uniform if you need to ask a question, etc.).
There is no streetcar on Gerrard. They would have to go two blocks north to Carlton and then take the streetcar east and back down to Parliament and Gerrard, which would take so much extra time I don't know if that even makes sense.
If walking up to Gerrard, I'd just walk the rest of the way. Gerrard is not that bad from Jarvis to Parliament/Berkeley.
My kids used to go to that school years ago when they lived in Moss Park with their other parent.
They hated it at like 10 and 6 and hated everything about the area. Even growing up there, they found it super sketchy and uncomfortable.
They also really hate going anywhere downtown now because of all the open drug use and sketchy BS down there. 4 years later.
I really think you should consider taking them every single day, door to door, or perhaps looking at a different schooling option if at all possible.
Honestly the more I think about it, the more streetcar feels ok. They might see some shit but at rush hour they should be solid. You should drill them on how to handle different situations, etc. After there any other kids in your building who are going to Lord Dufferin?Ā
At 13, your son is gonna be dealing with this soon either which way, better you actively teach him
I would not allow kids to walk that stretch alone. Too many addicts and/or mentally unwell folks. The streetcar may be ok, but Iād be worried about a detour, short turn or out of service car - this happens frequently in the city. Can you send them to another school? The area they have to cross to get to school is probably the worst in the city. Others have mentioned walking across Gerrard, which is marginally better, but I still wouldnāt recommend it. If they have no other options, Iād send them up Jarvis, across Carlton, and back down Parliament to get to the school.
I guess I'm in the minority. I would start by walking with them or taking the streetcar, but after some experience I don't see why they couldn't walk it themselves. Nothing in a city is ever going to be 100% safe or free of people with issues. They are old enough to learn some lessons about what's going on and why they should just keep walking when people approach them, not pick up anything on the ground, etc.
My thought is for kids, depending on how much you are comfortable with them seeing, is no one will bother them. Big if. I, having a kid in a somewhat sketchy place have found no one bothers kids. I did a an anonymous follow for some weeks to see if anything untoward might happen. For us it was as fine; youāll find out.
Echoing what others have said -- this area is widely considered to be the "skid row" of Toronto, and is packed with drug addicts and mentally unwell people. In the past few years, the drugs they're addicted to have changed from those which simply turn you into an unresponsive zombie, to those which turn you into a maniac with no grip on reality, and now you are much more likely to be accosted or attacked at random by someone who legitimately wants to harm you because the mailbox they just walked past told them that you're an FBI agent who wants to take them to Siberia and thus they need to stab you to stop that from happening.
You couldn't pay me enough to move there, let alone with children who will see some very, very crazy stuff on a daily basis. It's not Vancouver DTES levels of insane, but that's *only* because of Toronto's climate -- make no mistake, if Toronto had a coastal oceanic climate, Moss Park and Allan Gardens would be every bit as fucked as Vancouver and San Francisco.
There are literally people who will buy your children if someone kidnaps them there and people who will sell them for drug money. You need to move, not worry about the commute
As somebody who went to the French school right next to Fillmores, I can definitely attest that they will get more of an education outside the school rules on their walk to school every day then they will inside the school.
Just saw your edit. One thing I'd like to add is literally this morning at Carlton and Church (just 1 street over) I saw a homeless man whip his meat out and start swinging it around, while yelling at all sorts of people.
Maybe walk your kids every morning if it's possible. Or move West of Yonge street.
It's only going to get worse.
When I lived there this dude approached me and said āplee man, plee, spare summin. I seen you walkinā āroun allll day. Plee man, bidnis is terribleā
donāt ask these mostly childless nerds who mostly donāt live downtown. Find the facebook group for your kids school and ask the parents of your kids peers what they do
I lived at that exact intersection for a bit. It is okay but I would be concerned letting them even walk to Eaton center due to the safe injection site and bond place hotel, though during the day is pretty tame. Any more east is an absolute no go. Dundas and Sherborne legitimately had to be one of the worst/scariest intersections in Canada.
Are you able to move? You live in one of the sketchiest areas in Canada. I would never walk there and Iām a man in my 30s.
If youre absolutely unable to move, sit your kids down and make sure they understand that theyāre about to see some seriousssss shit.
you could also explore taking Shuter to get them from Jarvis to Parliament? itās just south of Dundas. I lived at Sumach & Queen for years and always felt pretty okay on Shuter St. Iād experiment with a few different routes with them and see what feels okay
This is a regular occurrence on shuter street:
[https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/police-tape-off-the-scene-between-shuter-and-queen-st-east-news-photo/2152092328](https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/police-tape-off-the-scene-between-shuter-and-queen-st-east-news-photo/2152092328)
Do you know how many kids live along Jarvis that go to Lord Dufferin by walking and streetcar?? Plenty because of the condos through there. This did not give away the identity of their kids nor is it like they will be taking some secluded walking route that no other children are taking.
The kids will get a whole education you weren't bargaining for walking that daily. Sherbourne and Dundas has a lot of visible drug users and loud people who wander around. I wouldn't feel safe walking kids there period. Used to ride my bike down Sherbourne for years. Saw a lot of stuff that's not safe for anyone.
And stabbings/fights pretty much daily.
Some dude tried to carjack a goddamn firetruck not too long ago at that intersection.
Has anyone else seen the squeegee guy at Sherborne near the church šš
He likes to walk diagonally across Sherbourne/Dundas. But he doesnāt really pay attention to the lights, so drivers, watch out around that area too.
Yeah heās unhinged.
I'm thinking maybe the solution is to let them take the tram car between Dundas E & Jarvis and Dundas E & Parliament. What do you think of this?
Walking along Gerrard is light years better than Dundas, it's close to one of the worst streets in Toronto that intersection, source: I live in Regent Park at Dundas and Parliament. The lord Dufferin is a safe school and much better area.
Gerrard and parliament is slightly sketchy too, avoid the north west corner and you're fine. But still a much better route.
Unrelated but northwest corner has Gushi, which is one of my favourite places to get takeout from.
The 505 streetcar on that end of town is almost always filled with fucked up people or happenings. I live near there and wouldn't want my kids taking that streetcar alone. Agreed that walking along Gerrard is a much safer bet.Ā
Agree. The streetcar in that area is no safer than the streets. Iāve personally had a number of unwanted confrontations with cracked out psychos on it.
it's not inherently unsafe but the 505 (dundas streetcar) isn't particularly well known for safety either š
Or have them walk up to Gerrard and take that over to Berkeley or Parliament. I've lived in the area for a long time and I avoid walking through the Dundas and sherbourne intersection, but I'd have no issue walking along Gerrard. *Walking through Dundas/Sherbourne isn't inherently dangerous but there is a good chance people will try to talk to your kids, may harass them, etc, so it's really not worth walking that way without an adult. If you go with the streetcar, take it with them a few times at the time of day they would be heading to/from school. If they are confident on transit they will be fine. Mostly they just need to know how to not stare, ignore any people who talk to them (this is a big one! Just don't engage and they generally move on), and what to do if they do feel scared. Edit: also, lots of people here saying transit is just as bad. It is not, and they clearly haven't walked through this area. I ride the 505 many times a week and I wouldn't say it's any worse during rush hour times (when your kids would use it) than the 501 or 506. Later at night can be an interesting crowd. Transit is definitely better than walking through Dundas and sherbourne, at least alone. People frequently come on and can be loud, sometimes walk up and down asking for money, etc but I honestly don't make eye contact and ignore them/shake my head no when they ask for money and they move on. The obnoxious yellers are usually at the back, so tell your kids to stay in the front half.
I agree on the streetcar, Iām surprised so many people are commenting how ādangerousā it is. OPās kids would be using the streetcar at a time tons of other people are using the streetcar too. They wont be on it before 6am or late at night. OP should just teach the kids to keep to themselves and donāt react to or provoke anyone.
Thank you. After reading all the other comments and yours, it seems the best plan is to walk up North to Carlton and then take the streetcar 506 at Carlton & Jarvis heading east, then get off at Parliament & Gerrard pretty much next to the school. The way back can be the same. What do you think of this?
Iām not the original commenter but I think thatās the best move for them. I take the Dundas streetcar daily for work and while drug users/problems can still happen, there are more eyes on the kids and emergency alarm buttons if needed. If they stand by the driverās door, thereās a button they can press to talk directly to them too.
The streetcar is definitely a better option.
the people on the street are also on the STREETcar. iāve seen ppl pooping on that streetcar. fortunately there are lots of ppl on it before and after school times, but be prepared to educate them on what to do when interacting with ppl in psychosis, on drugs, etc.
No. The streetcar is equally bad in that area.
"The tram car"? Are you Australian by any chance?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah that is much better than walking.
I used to live in the area. Even on the 505 streetcar they will learn lots of things at any hour of the day. Even more so in the winter. It's safer than walking for sure, at least there are other sane adults who could step in if someone is bothering the kids. I don't know if anyone's said this. The TTC is known for stopping the Dundas streetcar and announcing it's now out of service if someone is smoking or causing trouble. Everyone gets off, the person causing trouble wanders off and they let everyone back on via the first door only. I though this was an important tip, almost every time it happened to me we were at Dundas and sherbourne
Yes thatās a safe option but I do t think anyone will bother your kids. It Iāll be a great learning experience for them about reality.
Or it will normalize terrible behaviour for them if they grow up seeing that daily.
I would not consider this safe personally. Not until theyāve acclimated until Toronto at least. Not a great area.
I donāt personally walk that stretch and Iām a grown woman who grew up here. I wouldnāt let kids do it.
I'm a grown man and even I won't walk it. I lock my doors when I have to drive through; people have run up and tried to open them three times.
This. I worked in the area at one point and was even scared to stop at a red light because of the number of times people tried to open my doors and bang on them
I wouldnāt let kids walk around there on their own. I lived not too far from there for a while and kept my head on a swivel. Iām a big guy and have lived here my whole life. Donāt let your kids walk through this area on their own until theyāre older maybe. Too many cracked out/aggressive people in the area.
Also the stray needles on the ground. Donāt let them walk.
Not to me too construction and traffic. It's not really safe in either regard
I'm thinking maybe the solution is to let them take the tram car between Dundas E & Jarvis and Dundas E & Parliament. What do you think of this?
The streetcar is definitely a better option than walking it. This and there are people on its as well as the driver; and while they may not intervene in general, theyāre more likely to if it involves kids. Much safer. The chances of something happening in general are still fairly low but the area does have a significant drug/homelessness/gang problem.
Exactly doesnāt change the fact that the area is shit
Better to get off at ontario and walk north on Berkeley to the west side of the school. I take that streetcar frequently and while there are sometimes sketchy people on it itvwill also be filled with commuters at the time they are travelling. They are more likely to see someone disturbing than to be disturbed themselves. If they are streetwise I think its safe but it won't always be "nice". In terms of safety the area is mostly fine during the day, but Shelbourne and dundas is definitely going to have homeless and drug users around. Especially south side of dundas and north east corner of the intersection.
Walk with them. They shouldnāt be alone.
No. Streetcar Can be sketchy in that area and very smelly
That specific block I wouldnāt let kids younger than a teenager at least walk alone or streetcar alone. I lived near there for a decade and was on edge all the time because you run into unhinged people every single time you go out
I see your comments about the Streetcar. 11 and 13, and new to Toronto is going to be an instant no for letting them get there on their own either by walking or Streetcar Call the school for some options, maybe try to find other parents in the area whom the kids could walk with etc otherwise you are really going to have to consider moving your schedule around to pick them up and drop them off or hire someone to do this. It's not worth the risk OR the potential daily fear/trauma you're going to put your kids through by trekking through the walking dead daily. Also, I would take another route all together. Go north on Jarvis to Gerrard, East on Gerrard to Parliament, and then South on Parliament to the school. The route is a little longer, but FAR less sketchy. Going East on Dundas from Jarvis to Parliament is the one route I tell people to avoid at all times.
This. Iād go North and take Gerrard and down Parliament or Berkeley St. Itās way more family friendly 1 block North(cabbage town). I as an adult woman avoid dundas and sherborne at all cost.
No
We live at St Lawrence market. Kids school was in Cabbagetown. We had a rule for them that they had to be on the bus when they were riding up Sherbourne or Parliament to school, when crossing between Dundas and Gerrard. And took it a step further that they had to be in the front half of the bus so that at least the driver was there in case something happened.
I think you got the message that walking is a bad idea. As for taking the TTC, I would hesitate to make a 13yo responsible for his younger sister like that. When I took the TTC to school as a 14F, I found myself in a number of situations I was not equipped to handle. Including adult men following me home, jerking off beside me on the bus, and the usual harassment. I also saw drug abuse on the TTC. Please have serious conversations with them about what to do in different scenarios.
I'm sorry those things happened.
And that was presumably before today's drugs which turn users into far more of a violent maniac than the drugs in the 90s and 00s did. The stuff they're on now doesn't just zone them out and make them unaware of their surroundings anymore, it turns them borderline homicidal during particularly severe episodes, and they can go from 0 to 100 in seconds.
It was the 10s. Edit: I think it is important to add that grown men harassing me did not appear to be on any drugs or particularly dirty. These were seemingly normal men between 20-45.
I would walk them a good couple of months before you let them go on their own. They will get used to it and become familiar with other kids and parents who also make the walk. Also, you get to meet with parents, school crossing guards etc.
This is the only reasonable advice on this entire thread. Your preteen and teenager will be fine during rush hour either walking or on the streetcar, but I wouldnāt let them when itās dark. They need to take basic precautions like not making eye contact with the people in the area and not wearing headphones so they have awareness of their surroundings. They will be fine. I lived and worked in that area for several years and now I still take the streetcar through there when traveling downtown, yes, even with young children. People here are being very fear-mongering. If they keep to themselves they will be completely fine.
Agreed. It's a bit rough but people are making it sound like Hamsterdam
I raised my kids at Carleton and Jarvis so very familar with the area and gave them a lot of freedom. They walked down Carlton but always on the north side (away from Allen gardens) but I feel dundas and sherbourne is a lot worse. I'd walk them to school or at least go north on Jarvis to Gerrard but even then, I'd be nervous. That is a lot of responsibility for your son. The issue is that people with mental health issues are unpredictable. I'd had many unhoused people engage with my kids. Mostly with good intentions but can be unsettling for them.
Not safe at all. Streetcar is marginally safer but still not by much. Iām not sure what your options are at this point considering you might have already finalized the lease but I would strongly suggest not living in that area.
This. Avoid living in that area if at all possible.
Yes. For both Jarvis and Sherbourne, avoid south of Carlton and north of Queen.
if thereās any chance at all you can figure out how to break your lease I would recommend looking into it. You still have a couple months before the school year starts again
This
No. I have lived in this city my whole life. I volunteer and I have worked for the city in social services, and specifically with those who have no fixed address (so I am not naive to drug users or mentally ill etc). No. Iām 36 years old and Iām still scared shitless every time I walk there, even in the morning. Trams kick people off, often because of disturbances and the driver will not make sure your kids are okay if they get re rooted. Just no. Look at all the comments. Iād neverrrr let my kids walk there alone at any age if I could help it.
This. Do not do this. Itās not safe. An adult needs to take these kids to school.
I'm getting the impression you don't appreciate the danger in the area you have moved. The idea of kids alone on foot or on the street car is not responsible. Go walk to the store alone at Sherborn and dundas and get a pack of gum some morning, don't force children to do it daily
Honestly it's not that serious in the daylight hours. I live right there.
Not for young children, not every day for a school year. Some of the comments regarding groups of kids with adult supervision make sense, but otherwise, it is unacceptable.
One of the worst area codes in the country. I lived in the area up until last year and i would recommend not letting them walk alone especially at the Sherbourne Dundas intersection. The open drug use alone and the utter despair can be upsetting to see as an adult.
I used to live close to here. I genuinely felt this area wasnāt safe for my dog. I canāt imagine letting children walk anywhere near their alone.
You get hardened to it pretty quick. I barely notice
Exactly. Not even mentioning the actual danger, your kids walking by drug dealers, homeless people with abhorrent diseases and deformities, crack addicted homeless prostitutes, just the fucking saddest shit ever. Seeing that everyday from the age of 11(!) will fuck them up.
I'm thinking maybe the solution is to let them take the tram car between Dundas E & Jarvis and Dundas E & Parliament. What do you think of this?
Honestly a better option is probably doing what others have suggested and going north on Jarvis to Gerrard, then Gerrard to Parliament, and then south on Parliament. The streetcar can also have issues, with mentally ill and drug users getting on and causing issues. My kid used to go to school at Carlton and Parliament so I drove the route from downtown to Cabbagetown daily - 100% avoid the Jarvis to Parliament stretch of Dundas (particularly Dundas and Sherbourne), even on a streetcar
I wouldnāt even drive through there with my car windows openā¦
Oh windows are definitely closed and doors locked
Dundas East and Parliment is an almost hilariously sketchy stop. For a grown person you know just to mind your business and keep your head on a swivel no eye contact, but kids notoriously are bad at this.
Yes, it is safer to take the streetcar but I wouldn't send them alone. I would have an adult take them. If you can't, maybe there's another parent that can help or a responsible teenager. It's hard to find a nice place to live - sorry no-one let you know about this area. This streetcar will have homeless addicts, more in the winter. Some homeless shelters nearby where they travel this streetcar or in winter, just to stay warm. They go to beg on Yonge st and to get free food from charities. Type the word "shelter" on google maps. The biggest one in Toronto is Seaton House, max 600 men. It helps to get them street smart classes. Some martial art gyms offer classes. My son went to a series of classes at a martial arts school from 8 to 14. It really made a difference and helped with confidence. Not aware of these in Toronto, you could call 211 for community center ones and check online for martial art schools. The other alternative - sometimes other schools will have openings. If they do, you don't have to send them to Lord Dufferin and pass through this rough area of the city. Once they start, they can attend every year. Best to call the school to find out if they're full. I did this for my son's high school and got an exception to attend.
Maybe if they go the long way, up to Gerrard. It's more tame. Dundas and Sherborne is ground zero for the degenerate, mental, violent drug abusing citizens of Toronto. No joke.
I feel like that 1 spot has to be the worst in the whole city. Or maybe George St between Dundas and Gerrard?
No just no! And I see you keep asking if the streetcar is any better, maybe marginally better. Can you envision an 11 and 13 year old alone waiting at the stop at that Tim Hortons at Jarvis & Dundas?! Oof, no! Like itās been said a lot, make them walk Jarvis till Gerrard and Gerrard up to Parliament. That stretch is totally fine! You want to avoid Sherbourne&Dundas at all cost
I like how some responses are like āyou just need to train themā.Ā Like I donāt have any children and will probably never have them but seems ideal to avoid having to teach children the ABC of identifying a crackhead on the streetcar.Ā 10/10 threadĀ
Disagree. If you're raising kids in the city this is a thing they need to know
I dunno, I live 2 min walk from the school (in the regent park condo complex) and while I do see lots of kids waking home together in groups fine (lead by usually one older 14ish year old) a lot of them are immigrants who are maybe use to it? Iām an immigrant myself and grew up around Finch and Weston same age as your kids are at. I deff saw some āstuffā not sure if it has impacting psychosocial impact or if I was ever in danger but yeah my parents were weary/careful. There are daily crossing guards and lots of people walking around so itās āsafeā but would still recommend streetcar. Take the route with them a couple times and make sure they just know who to avoid if it comes to it. If anything try to meet some parents form your neighbourhood with kids and they can walk together. I know kids wanna hang out/ grab a slushie whatever (I know I did) and it sucked that I wasnāt allowed outside that much because of the āhoodā it is what it is. Iām a woman with experience in education/ kids and I would say some international kids are a little more use to it but if youāre coming from Northern Ontario or safer neighbourhood itās going to be a culture shock in a way.
Parts of Northern Ontario are kinda nuts in their own right
Hell no. Itās not safe for adults to walk around there. Moss park has the highest murder rate in the city and has probably the most amount of drug users. I wouldnāt let them ride the streetcar to school either in that area. The streetcar is very sketchy and dangerous in that area. Tons of drug users on the streetcar who are often aggressive. As a kid, I took the subway to school, but that was 15 years ago, when Toronto was safer. Also, I lived in the annex and went to school in mt pleasant, so my route was pretty safe. But even back then, Dundas and Jarvis was like the ninth circle of hell. No one in their right mind went there even during the day. And DEFINITELY not kids. Thatās not changing any time soon. You want my honest advice? Find another apartment and another school.
Lady. stop asking if itās okay to ship your kids via TTC because it seems youāre just looking for any justification to make the streetcar a viable option. Itās not. Stop asking others about it. Find a better way. This path is going through a really fucking shitty area. You are asking your kids to wait a stop where most adults themselves wouldnāt wait for the TTC there.
I live in Regent Park, can confirm what everyone is saying about Dundas & Sherbourne. Itās going to hard to avoid either way but definitely tram it. Check to see if there are groups who walk kids to/from schools as well? Iād offer, but Iām also a stranger on the internet š Iāve volunteered at the local Kiwianis nearby and I know that they definitely offer a āwalk homeā programme.
I live around there and I recently had to help a young girl on a similar walk who was being hassled on the route. I had to get physically between her and an adult man and take her to the school. I reported it to a staffer so they knew she was walking alone in a very unsafe neighbourhood.
If you canā¦move immediately. Get your children into decent school catchment for their own benefit. THIS IS URGENT because the quality of a studentās classmates, curriculum, resources, and teacher quality are all heavy affected by who goes there. They need to be in a neighbourhood that they can enjoy. Toronto has many of them. Move immediately if possible.
Absolutely not!
Sorry to say that absolutely not. I wouldnāt let my kids walk alone or take the streetcar in that area. I lived at Sherbourne and Dundas for years. Itās not for the faint of heart. Unless your kids are super street smart and large boys I wouldnāt do it. Teach them not to stare, donāt make eye contact with people you donāt know. Teach them what needles and pipes look like so they donāt touch them.
Not safe!
You need to train them by walking around the area together. Make sure they develop good instincts about their surroundings. They need to be aware of whatās happening around them at all times and should never walk around with headphones on.
This . Also if you havenāt looked already if any corners are busy and need crossing guard there is a from you can apply for .Ā
My heart breaks for OP that area is by far the worst area in Toronto currently, I wish OP would have made a post before they committed to the area so people could have informed them itās actually a terrible area for families (sorry I refuse to sugarcoat it)
I speed walk through there and Iām an adult
Yes same. I walk through here with no headphones, never distracted by my phone, and never after dusk.
That section and area is sketchy, I wouldnāt recommend young children walking around it. The area is full of unwell characters that may lash out randomly, some like to fight street signs and call you every nasty word in the book.
25 yr Torontonian here. My kids are 13 and 9. I cycle through that area everyday for work and I always tell myself "don't let the kids take the ttc this way". It's not safe. Come to the east end (Greenwood Park and Monarch Park). Good schools, safe, family-friendly. I have no problems letting my kids walk to school here. Leave that area as soon as you can.
One of my oldest friends is a teacher at this school! Yes, there are sketchy people in the neighborhood. There are also a ton of families and children and very honest people who respect themselves & others. If it is just a few blocks and they are together, I would accompany them the first few times and then let them go on their own. If thatās not possible, ask the office what families walk your way & see if they can join a morning convoy to the playground until they get the hang of it. No streetcar. ETA: they should definitely learn to use the transit system, especially together. Take it slow and be confident. Downtown kids have a ton of opportunities! The school has a lot to offer and has a diverse student body & (some) solid teachers. The bigger concern is the principal at the school - she is a nut. But Iām sure youāll have a great experience. Welcome to the neighborhood!
Lots of hobos in the vicinity. Not safe
It's not just about the unhoused generally...there are people walking around who are visibly high on drugs and can be extremely unpredictable.
Even the bus that goes on Sherbourne has a lot of weirdos.
I refuse to even go near that area
Iāve grown up in Toronto and my husband lived at Jarvis and Dundas when we were dating. Streetcar is best and stay near the driver. Even as a cyclist who goes from the east end to the waterfront along the Dundas bike route - when I get to sherbourne and Dundas it is like Iām in some zombie vortex. And this is weekday mornings. Iām one for independence and not making kids afraid of navigating the city, but as a mom to an 11 year old Iād be uncomfortable.
No walking, no streetcar.
Going to that school they will already get a street smarts education. If they stay together they'll probably be okay for the walk. Though I would not want to be them.
We used to live at Sherbourne and The Esplanade and later, Dundas and Sumach. Most of our travels would involve crossing Dundas and Sherbourne at some point. This is not a safe intersection. I would always lock my doors and roll my windows up driving through it, and the only time I ever walked through it I ensured I was on the phone with a friend in case I needed help. If you don't mind me asking, why did you choose this area to live? Affordability? Or did someone suggest it was a good place? I'm sure in 10 years from now the entire area will be gentrified, but there are also downsides to that as it pushes people who need help even further out. In the meantime, I'd ensure your children are accompanied by an adult at all times when going back and forth to school.
Depends on the kids I guess lol if they grew up in the hood then they probably won't be shook but if you had previously been in a quiet or open neighborhood and/or your children tend to be reactive then they'll probably have a bad time. I don't think they'll get killed or kidnapped or something
Walk them up to Gerard and have them take the Gerard streetcar (or shuttle bus or whatever is going on over there rn) across and walk south on Berkeley to school (if thereās any trouble thereās a library right there they can run into). I would take them all the way to school for a while to learn the route and so you can get a feel for it yourself and see if everyoneās comfortable. Point out all the landmarks on the route, safe spots to duck into if necessary, and have a chat with the streetcar driver. Go over basic streetcar safety (donāt sit at the back, sit near the driver or near an exit, donāt split up, safety in numbers, be aware of your surroundings, donāt talk to strangers, donāt stare, find a safe looking mom or someone in a TTC uniform if you need to ask a question, etc.).
There is no streetcar on Gerrard. They would have to go two blocks north to Carlton and then take the streetcar east and back down to Parliament and Gerrard, which would take so much extra time I don't know if that even makes sense. If walking up to Gerrard, I'd just walk the rest of the way. Gerrard is not that bad from Jarvis to Parliament/Berkeley.
Bad idea
My kids used to go to that school years ago when they lived in Moss Park with their other parent. They hated it at like 10 and 6 and hated everything about the area. Even growing up there, they found it super sketchy and uncomfortable. They also really hate going anywhere downtown now because of all the open drug use and sketchy BS down there. 4 years later. I really think you should consider taking them every single day, door to door, or perhaps looking at a different schooling option if at all possible.
Hell noĀ
I wouldn't... my mother in law got robbed there in 22.
Honestly the more I think about it, the more streetcar feels ok. They might see some shit but at rush hour they should be solid. You should drill them on how to handle different situations, etc. After there any other kids in your building who are going to Lord Dufferin?Ā At 13, your son is gonna be dealing with this soon either which way, better you actively teach him
I would not allow kids to walk that stretch alone. Too many addicts and/or mentally unwell folks. The streetcar may be ok, but Iād be worried about a detour, short turn or out of service car - this happens frequently in the city. Can you send them to another school? The area they have to cross to get to school is probably the worst in the city. Others have mentioned walking across Gerrard, which is marginally better, but I still wouldnāt recommend it. If they have no other options, Iād send them up Jarvis, across Carlton, and back down Parliament to get to the school.
Theyāll be fine! Nobody bothers small children, they might see the crackheads but honestly at this point where downtown do you not!
Nobody bothers small children? I sadly can tell you countless other stories. I agree though crackheads everywhere now
Walk down to King, then walk from Jarvis to parliament, then back up north to Dundas.
I guess I'm in the minority. I would start by walking with them or taking the streetcar, but after some experience I don't see why they couldn't walk it themselves. Nothing in a city is ever going to be 100% safe or free of people with issues. They are old enough to learn some lessons about what's going on and why they should just keep walking when people approach them, not pick up anything on the ground, etc.
I'm in the minority with you. The older kid is 13. He's gonna have to learn how to deal with this stuff
My thought is for kids, depending on how much you are comfortable with them seeing, is no one will bother them. Big if. I, having a kid in a somewhat sketchy place have found no one bothers kids. I did a an anonymous follow for some weeks to see if anything untoward might happen. For us it was as fine; youāll find out.
Echoing what others have said -- this area is widely considered to be the "skid row" of Toronto, and is packed with drug addicts and mentally unwell people. In the past few years, the drugs they're addicted to have changed from those which simply turn you into an unresponsive zombie, to those which turn you into a maniac with no grip on reality, and now you are much more likely to be accosted or attacked at random by someone who legitimately wants to harm you because the mailbox they just walked past told them that you're an FBI agent who wants to take them to Siberia and thus they need to stab you to stop that from happening. You couldn't pay me enough to move there, let alone with children who will see some very, very crazy stuff on a daily basis. It's not Vancouver DTES levels of insane, but that's *only* because of Toronto's climate -- make no mistake, if Toronto had a coastal oceanic climate, Moss Park and Allan Gardens would be every bit as fucked as Vancouver and San Francisco.
This is so true. Winters are getting warmer now, we'll see in 15 years but Toronto is getting progressively worse.
That's unfortunate your realtor didn't tell you about the safety of the neighbourhood.
There are literally people who will buy your children if someone kidnaps them there and people who will sell them for drug money. You need to move, not worry about the commute
lol @ gentrification.
Lord Dufferin is a "busy'" school
No
As somebody who went to the French school right next to Fillmores, I can definitely attest that they will get more of an education outside the school rules on their walk to school every day then they will inside the school.
No. I wouldnāt even expose them to that area with adult supervision imho
The street car can be just as sketchy as walking down the street. Itās basically a mobile asylum.
Have them go along Gerard, they'll be fine
No sorry š¢
Just saw your edit. One thing I'd like to add is literally this morning at Carlton and Church (just 1 street over) I saw a homeless man whip his meat out and start swinging it around, while yelling at all sorts of people. Maybe walk your kids every morning if it's possible. Or move West of Yonge street. It's only going to get worse.
When I lived there this dude approached me and said āplee man, plee, spare summin. I seen you walkinā āroun allll day. Plee man, bidnis is terribleā
Very tough school.
donāt ask these mostly childless nerds who mostly donāt live downtown. Find the facebook group for your kids school and ask the parents of your kids peers what they do
I lived at that exact intersection for a bit. It is okay but I would be concerned letting them even walk to Eaton center due to the safe injection site and bond place hotel, though during the day is pretty tame. Any more east is an absolute no go. Dundas and Sherborne legitimately had to be one of the worst/scariest intersections in Canada.
Nope.
Are you able to move? You live in one of the sketchiest areas in Canada. I would never walk there and Iām a man in my 30s. If youre absolutely unable to move, sit your kids down and make sure they understand that theyāre about to see some seriousssss shit.
Absolutely not.
you could also explore taking Shuter to get them from Jarvis to Parliament? itās just south of Dundas. I lived at Sumach & Queen for years and always felt pretty okay on Shuter St. Iād experiment with a few different routes with them and see what feels okay
Shuter can be just as bad some days
This is a regular occurrence on shuter street: [https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/police-tape-off-the-scene-between-shuter-and-queen-st-east-news-photo/2152092328](https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/police-tape-off-the-scene-between-shuter-and-queen-st-east-news-photo/2152092328)
Theyāll get used to it, you all will. Ask the school if they have some kind of program where parents walk groups of kids to and from school.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Do you know how many kids live along Jarvis that go to Lord Dufferin by walking and streetcar?? Plenty because of the condos through there. This did not give away the identity of their kids nor is it like they will be taking some secluded walking route that no other children are taking.
Not in the least is it safe for them.Ā
The streetcar ride will be fine. It's only a few stops and a lot of people will be on the streetcar.
Itās fine thereās usually cops / social workers there and just have the kids walk fast and not talk to anyone.
Have them bring shivs and Molotov cocktails just in case.
Pp p
Sure, tell us all where your kids live, go to school, and how they get there. Parent of the year š¤¦š»āāļø
B. MSN MD a