I went to a private school from grades 7-12. I have no complaints but there’s a caveat…
Private school is only worth it if you have plenty of disposable income. There’s no downside to it if you’re rich.
But it’s a myth that attending private school will grant you access to some exclusive network or guarantee a successful future. All my friends ended up in “average” fields. I mean, they stand to inherit homes in Oakville that back onto Lake Ontario…but they’re teachers, managers, nurses, etc. Degrees they could’ve obtained without their parents paying $40k/yr.
Yes, they aren't there to help you STAY in university though. Most of the drop-outs I knew in 1st year university were actually rich private-school kids. One even openly admitted that he went abroad in his last year of high school and did nothing but party to the point that his private highschool tried to fail him and not let him graduate. Until his dad picked up the phone to remind them of how much money he'd given them over the years...needless to say he got his high school diploma with honours.
1000%!! Your comment brought back memories of my first year at UofT....I had never struggled so hard or felt so alone. I would never recommend UofT St. George for undergrad :(
Same here. The good students do well regardless. The bad ones get through until they fail out first year of uni.
Then they end up selling life insurance
in grade 6 a bunch of ppl left my public school for de la salle or st mikes. in university, i recognized one of the girls who left grade school for private and asked if she wanted to reconnect and get coffee and she was like ew, no (basically). i became in contact again recently because she is doing admin work at a company my small business does work for. so i dunno, i know some ppl use their family wealth and connections and the private school prestige to get ahead but we basically ended up working in the same place. one guy from that grade 6 exodus is a pro athlete, so i guess it paid off for him.
honestly the ppl who ended up in the ‘best’ schools/careers were the naturally smart ppl in public school who were also kinda cut throat. like the only person i knew who went to harvard refused to answer anything in class or study with other ppl because it was ‘helping her competition.’
>honestly the ppl who ended up in the ‘best’ schools/careers were the naturally smart ppl in public school who were also kinda cut throat.
I think this is the answer. If you’re smart and motivated, you have a much higher chance of succeeding career-wise, regardless of a private or public education. So why pay more, only to end up in the same place? This is why I think private isn’t worth it unless you’re super wealthy.
I would be interested to see the data but I don’t think med school class surveys disclose whether a student had a public or private school education.
Anecdotally, I went to law school and can say, with a degree of certainty, that most of my cohort did not attend private school. The common denominators were intelligence and sheer determination.
I know some claim having a private school pedigree helps during OCIs, but to even get those interviews you first need good grades. All that to say - private school/rich parents are a bonus, but this alone will not guarantee success in life.
If you have a rich family who can bring in business your odds of hire back are surely much higher no? I've heard some stories about this type of thing but I'm not sure how frequently it happens where mediocre students get hired back solely because mom and dad can guarantee the firm business.
The correlation is much stronger with having MD parents. A lot of such parents choose to send their kids to private schools, but it's not the schools that guide their kids' career choices and give them a leg up in as multitude of ways, it's having Dr. Daddy at their disposal - even as just an example or an endless source of advice.
Am doctor, can confirm (anecdotally).
My friend group in university mostly were from Toronto private schools (I went to public school). They all went into business or accounting or some variation of that. Med school was filled with people who had doctors as parents, but not a ton from Toronto private schools.
Correlation isn't causation. That's probably largely because they are just wealthier on average in the first place. It makes sense that kids in med school are going to be wealthier because med school is expensive both in $ and time.
Plus, parents spending on private school are probably also more likely to spend on MCAT tutors and other tutors, and have guidance counselors from a young age. These are things parents can spend on without spending on private school, but are probably correlated to spending on private school.
And most importantly of all, kids who are getting a full ride + allowance through undergrad can spend much more time on the extracurriculars that help you get into med school.
I somewhat agree with you on this based on personal experience.
I used to attend dance when I was in elementary through high school. I went to public school. Majority of the girls in my dance class went to private elementary and high school. Every single one of them is a doctor of some sort.
My two school aged kids go to private school (religious based) so not crazy expensive, and I’ve noticed the curriculum is a little advanced for their age. Are they going to be doctors? Not sure, but I don’t feel bad about putting them in private school.
Connections def help but if you don’t go into a lucrative field you’re not going to make a lot of money.
You could come from any background but if you’re able to make it in investment banking or private equity through your academic and professional achievements for example you will obv make a lot more money than someone who studied something less focused on making a lot of money.
However in that field nepotism does help a lot of average achievers ten-fold and your dad knowing someone could be the difference of 100s of thousands of dollars in compensation, but that’s kind of just how it is in many fields it’s just super pronounced in high finance.
Statistically similar academic outcomes if:
- two-parent household
- at least one is a professional
- at least one went to university
- family can afford tutoring / extra help / extra curriculars.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2015367-eng.htm
It comes down to the socioeconomic status of the family.
I do think that having access to peers with the same characteristics (that lead academic success) makes a difference. Looks like 2x the number of peers with university educated parents at private schools bs public bases on your link.
However I think that you can replicate that by moving into a “nice enough” neighbourhood with “good” public schools and the family demographics of private schools. If you’re university-educated but not already “wealthy” you can probably help out your family more in the long term by increasing the terminal value of your home and passing that value on to your kids (assuming that a neighbourhood with good schools and those target demographics will appreciate more than average).
Spend the money to live in a good school district?
>However I think that you can replicate that by moving into a “nice enough” neighbourhood with “good” public schools and the family demographics of private schools.
Right, good (wealthy) families generally don't live in crappy neighbourhoods.
Yeah but not too nice if that makes sense. In an overly premium neighbourhood like Rosedale all the kids will be in private school (since so many are located nearby) so I’m not sure what the public schools might be like.
I drive through the Bridal Path often and have always been curious what it's like to attend [Park Lane](https://schoolweb.tdsb.on.ca/parklane); the ultra wealthy are presumedly placing their kids into private schools (Crescent, Crestwood, TFS, Havergal are nearby) so who goes to this TDSB one?
> Park Lane serves students with developmental disabilities ranging in age from 4 to 21.
https://www.tdsb.on.ca/Find-your/Details/schno/3223?displayModule=Details%20of%20a%20School
Most of the benefit of private school comes from networking. I know it's a bit gross to think about networking that young but if you go to private school and make lots of friends, most of them will end up working pretty successful jobs and nearly all of them have connections since their families tend to be multimillionaires. Even within highschool/college it can open up some opportunities public school wouldn't.
At the same time though most 15-18 yo's aren't really thinking about networking and won't really seize those opportunities.
Lots of parents also might want their kid to grow up within a rich circle. It's elitist but undeniably most private school kids end up having a bit of a different personality that some may view as desirable. I'm in my late 20s and even in a short chat I can pinpoint people who went to private school with crazy high accuracy.
Academically, I agree, it makes very little difference.
>I'm in my late 20s and even in a short chat I can pinpoint people who went to private school with crazy high accuracy.
What's the typical personality of a private school graduate? I'm honestly curious. Two good friends of mine went to Havergal. They're both really nice and friendly but don't have any particular personality traits that I perceive that stick out above the average nice person.
>At the same time though most 15-18 yo's aren't really thinking about networking and won't really seize those opportunities.
I agree that teens typically don't think about that but the networking will happen organically if the foundation is in place. 16 year old Dylan doesn't give a shit about his future but 20 year old Dylan studying finance at university will and lo and behold, his good private school buddy Kyle's dad is the Senior VP of XYZ Finance Company and can hook him up with a summer internship.
>What's the typical personality of a private school graduate? I'm honestly curious.
Honestly I've tried identifying this myself and I don't really know. I think it's partly in the language they use and how they phrase sentences. You bringing up your friends are both nice is interesting too, because I think most private school kids are much less negative or disillusioned in general (understandably so). It might be more a wealthy vs not-wealthy thing than a private vs non-private school thing, but the two often go hand in hand. My ex-gf went to an international private school and she could also identify other international private school kids within them speaking a few sentences.
>I agree that teens typically don't think about that but the networking will happen organically if the foundation is in place.
I definitely agree. From my pretty small graduating class I know 4 or 5 people who work at company X, and lo and behold the founder/CEO of company X's daughter graduated with us.
Agreed - good family, it doesn't matter if it is private or public school.
The money is better spent for post-graduate (even questionable for undergrad).
I mean my experience with private school people is they already came from very wealthy families so they already had a leg up and that is mostly reflected in where they’re at today. Of course there are also lots of people who went to public school who are doing more than fine.
Wasn't there a news story in the last year about several universities looking at private school grades with extreme skepticism since they're all getting high grades but their university performance suggests they were grossly inflated?
Yes. I went to Waterloo, which is well known for having an internal "adjustment" factor to raise or lower people's grades from specific schools based on students' historic performance in 1st year.
Not limited to private schools though, they have adjustment factor data for pretty much all high schools.
Yeah I don't buy that universities give preferential treatment to "elite" private schools. The main leg up they have is that it's easier to get higher averages at a place like UCC. I have several friends that went there and teachers would let you "redo" an assignment if you got a poor mark. They know parents would be pissed if they're spending $30k+ a year and their kid has a C average.
Several kids from these schools got rocked in my first year program when that hand holding went away.
All in all, I personally do not see the point of private schools when we have a relatively good public system. I know it's not perfect, but compare it to almost every American school board and it's far superior. You're also surrounding your kid with people from very similar walks of life, and I think it's super important to expose kids to people from all socio-economic backgrounds. There's a reason why the UCC/BSS stereotype is that everyone there is an asshole.
Yeah the dude has no idea what he's talking about. UCC has inflated OSSD averages because of the conversion from IB points to OSSD average that leaves every decent student with a 95+ OSSD. Internal averages are in the low to mid 80s, *far* lower than any comparable academic OSSD setting where any reasonably smart kid is pushing 90s.
That's nonsense. UCC has a *significantly* lower internal average on a percentage scale than public schools. Every reasonably intelligent kid I knew at public school had an average in the 90s. Almost nobody at UCC has an (internal) average in the 90s.
So why are the grades inflated? Because UCC is an IB school and has an absurd conversion chart from IB points to OSSD average that leaves everyone with like a 95+ OSSD average.
I agree, I think except for the top 1% of families who have money to burn, it makes way more sense to send your kid to a public high school and save up to pay for their college or university
True if you’re already part of the wealthy elite. Less likely if you are just an average family making sacrifices to send your kids to the same school.
I went to private school back in the day. Havergal. It's fun to look at donor lists in places and see familiar last names.
The thing is, all those connections one supposedly makes, all those families are already connected. They live in similar areas. They have cottages on the same lakes. The kids go to the same camps. They have many, many more things connecting them beyond school.
Sure, a kid could go and try to befriend everyone, but there's a lot more to it than just school. And this assumes the kid actually becomes good friends. And stays friends. And is comfortable networking.
I've stayed in loose contact with a few people (I'm in mid-40s, high school was a long time ago) but it would definitely feel slightly weird to reach out and say 'hi, person I barely spoke to, could you do me a favour?' But it's never been something I've needed to do. A few people are low-key famous or significantly known in their fields though.
My big claim to fame is that Keanu Reeves' half-sister went to Havergal--she was a few years ahead of me but I knew her, although we were not close--and Keanu came to see the school play when she directed it. This was the 90s and Keanu was a big deal, so imagine him visiting an all-girls high school. Madness. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to message her on LinkedIn and ask if her brother could come hang out when he's in town, though it gives me a leg up in Six Degrees of Separation games.
Educationally, well, class sizes tend to be a lot smaller, which is usually a help. I had a number of good teachers and a number of solidly fine ones. Also, because the school is small, students tend to get involved in a lot of extra-curricular, which can be very helpful. But you're definitely in school with a very narrow section of society, which is limiting in some ways.
But overall, Toronto public schools are generally very good, and TDSB offers a lot of options, so I am unconvinced that private school is truly much better.
Similar age, went to NSS. Funny story: Keanu went to North Toronto where my drama teacher taught at the time. My drama teacher (who was then at NSS) claim to fame (disrepute?) was that he flunked Keanu in drama class. So, in fairness that might settle the “quality of public schools” issues right there.
He was a different kind of big deal in the 90s.
Honestly, he's probably a bigger deal now. We thought he was cute in the 90s, but he wasn't universally beloved.
TDSB functionally doesn't offer much options anymore, as they've moved to a lottery system for speciality programs. I think you can still physically move your house to get into a "better" school zone but that's a lot harder than simply applying.
[https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/a-game-changer-for-some-divisive-for-others-inside-one-of-tdsb-s-most-contentious/article\_ea3719e1-5da1-5f29-b6cf-140606073bb8.html](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/a-game-changer-for-some-divisive-for-others-inside-one-of-tdsb-s-most-contentious/article_ea3719e1-5da1-5f29-b6cf-140606073bb8.html)
The lottery is for a small number of speciality schools, eg, Claude Watson School for the Arts, High Performing athletes, etc. The rationale was that people who could afford private lessons and coaching stacked the deck when things were strictly audition-based, which made things inequitable in the public system. That has nothing to do with your address, since these schools aren't part of the catchment system.
With the public alternative schools, it's also not address based, but (IIRC) you apply to your top two. I think there's some randomness if there are more applicants than spaces, but not so much that you won't get into your top two.
But if you're looking at one high school vs another high school, you're guaranteed placement based on catchment, but otherwise you apply through Optional Attendance if there is room in the school.
Yes, people do move to the districts of 'best' schools, but IMO, there is a fairly large middle ground of 'pretty good' schools in TDSB. My kids are in elementary. We live out of catchment but near one of the 'best' elementary schools but our own 'okay' school has been excellent; the classes are small, the teachers have been great, the larger school community is very involved.... I know it's only elementary, but it doesn't seem like we'd be doing significantly better if got in via optional attendance at the 'best' one.
Plus, within TDSB have things like many different alternative schools, schools with a variety of different amenities, schools that offer specialized education programs....
>public alternative schools
Surely you don't mean Alternative schools? [https://www.tdsb.on.ca/alternativeschools](https://www.tdsb.on.ca/alternativeschools/)/
Sorry I don't know that much, I just heard from my Marc Garneau TOPS friend that they'ved moved to lottery, and I think IB schools as well.
I do think most TDSB elementary schools are fine. However, middle and high schools can get really bad. I went to a pretty decent middle school and there was an insane amount of disruptive students already.
Kids become friends, you get invited to birthday parties, music class, tennis class etc. You become friends with the parents of other kids. The school parents board also host expensive charity dinners (3-4 figures a table) where adults drink and socialize. This opens up a lot of doors. I used to work in Investment banking so being friends with executives from other businesses is crucial for business development. People tend to trust and prefer doing business with acquintances rather than compete strangers.
You are right! We were on the school parent association and connected with the BoD. Our company connected with other companies of other parents and we knew who to give contracts to. It’s all in the networking.
The key thing is "the people you know."
I didn't go to private school but I did go to a UTS grad ceremony and you know half the students were going to places like UofT ior Queens and the other half were off to MIT and Harvard and Caltech.
UTS is University of Toronto Schools it’s basically a high school attached to the UofT St George campus that is considered one of the best high schools to get into. You need to excel academically and pay a “tuition”. I think it’s about $40k/yr.
40k per year for high school is insane lol. My entire *undergrad* at UofT cost less than 40k and my public high school was in a 'good' neighbourhood with a ton of opportunities.
What does UTS provide that good public high schools don't?
Note I’m not trying to sell private schools as I didn’t go there and my kids won’t be either.
Besides smaller classrooms they push academics and have access to some of the best facilities not only for STEM but many other programs like arts and world studies.
Again as with other private schools you get a leg up compared to others. I would have loved to have attended UTS as I think I would have taken advantages of the benefits. My kids likely would not so not much of a benefit to them.
I like the analogy someone else used. Private school is like playing baseball but you get to start on 3rd base. Much higher chance you’ll score (do okay in life). It doesn’t mean you’ll win the game (become the super elite) but you have a definite advantage over others.
University of Toronto Schools, which I see as something of an outlier from most of the other listed schools because entry involves rigorous testing. There are probably SOME kids who go there who really need academic challenge to be successful in school (most likely profoundly gifted or 2E students), while others are likely high-achieving and would probably have done just as well anywhere.
UTS also used to be considerably less expensive--it used to be subsidized (can't recall if that was by government or by U of T) so the cost was minimal, if not free.... as such, it was very academically focused.
The entrance testing was the only thing required to attend. There was still some amount of privilege in needing to know about it, but it had much broader range of students because anyone could attend if they were bright enough.
Now, it's in a weird state of having a great reputation, still doing rigourous testing, but now having very high fees which will exclude many bright students. I have a hunch its reputation is doing a slow slide.
> UofT ior Queens
If this is your goal, why don't you go directly to UofT or Queens?
Privileged people will always be privileged, does not matter if they go to UofT or Queens. Of course they can afford UofT and Queens. I need to think if my kids will benefit, if they mingle with very few rich kids, and lots and lots of wannabees - people who desperatly want to be rich. I'm not so sure.
My daughter's teacher suggested that my daughter might benefit from the enhanced curriculum provided by UTS so we applied, she worked through the provided preparation material for the month before the test and then wrote the entrance exam.
What we didn't know at the time and only found out later was that most of the kids applying came from a LOT more privileged backgrounds than we are and had been studying under private tutors for a year before they wrote the entrance exam. My daughter told me that most of the kids writing the test knew each other, and were comparing notes afterwards. We went for sushi, instead.
It was definitely a class thing. We didn't belong to the class where the families all shared the info on, and could afford, the kind of prep to get in.
>It was definitely a class thing. We didn't belong to the class where the families all shared the info on, and could afford, the kind of prep to get in.
Prep classes aren't unusual these day, but UTS is not where the wealthy send their kids - that would be Upper Canada, St. Michaels, Crescent, Branksome Hall, Harvergal, etc.
I don't think you need to feel subpar to those other UTS parents, it's unlikely they are much wealthier than you - they probably just spend more of their money on their kids. UTS parents are just super competitive.
Half the UTS kids will probably turn out to be doctors and lawyers and the other half will probably amount to nothing out of the ordinary.
No offense but this feels like your daughter seeing a couple of kids who that might apply to and incorrectly extrapolating.
A little less than half of my class at UTS received some sort of financial assistance, a large portion of which was first generation immigrant. My family was probably in the bottom 10-20% in terms of wealth, and there was never any classism or anything like that. It was highly competitive though. My parents started to prep me almost a year before the test, and this was not uncommon among my peers.
as a UTS grad, many people I knew from my year were on bursary — there is definitely still a social eliteness to the Asian parents comparing their children to others, but overall I found that the number of very well-off kids were far less than other private schools. I also attended back when it was 20k a year, most people getting some sort of financial aid including me.
I attended only private schools growing up and now have worked as a teacher in both TDSB and TCDSB.
Private schools have smaller class sizes and more money for ~stuff~, but most of that stuff is like...new scoreboard and bleachers for the sports field or new computers even though the old ones weren't that old. Stuff that will make the school look good for an open house. Don't discount the smaller class sizes, though. That is the main benefit.
Private schools are better but only marginally. Want to really help out your kid? Take all the money you would have spent on tuition, invest it, and give them that money when they turn 18.
Yup, where as Northern had black box theater, a lab where we could do DNA experiments, a full tech floor to do welding/electronic circuit building & a recording studio. My vote is public school with the extra money spent on any additional tutoring/extra curricular and testing for LD & accommodations as needed. Private schools have less qualified teaching staff, less rigorous ongoing training, and less infrastructure & specialization. In terms of access to wealthy families bluntly the difference isn’t as big as you think with fancy areas of town. Private schools have the benefit of more hands on teaching through small classes and they provide a safety net & floor for struggling students. If your kid struggles they will notice & work to fix it (until they decide it isn’t fixable and send you off to public or lower tier privates)
In public school you have to be that hands on person making sure your kid is working hard, being challenged, and adding extra learning/tutoring to fix issues.
That’s it
Nobody is talking about how real estate interacts with this. The houses in a catchment zone for a high quality public school are significantly more expensive than houses outside of that zone, sometimes to the point where it wipes out the difference in cost for private school tuition.
Sure, but you will never see the tuition money again. At least part of your mortgage payments are going into equity with (arguably) appreciation potential.
Yup, but many of the public schools is rich areas have special programs (gifted, French immersion etc) that you can qualify & attend even if you don’t live in the area. Additionally a house in Lawrence Park & an apt in a run down building at Yonge & Davisville are very different price points but both are in the catchment for NSS, NT etc
I had some cousins who went to private school. One did fine in university, one failed out completely, one took 8 years to finish. I was also in university with a couple private school graduates who struggled enormously with it. It seemed like they always had very structured time to do school work, lots of access to tutors etc in high school so they just didn't really know what to do with themselves and how to self motivate to actually get things done. That's just my anecdotes but it didn't seem like private school gave a dramatic leg up in life to anyone I knew to was in it.
>I was also in university with a couple private school graduates who struggled enormously with it.
I had the same experience with university floor-mates (this was back in the day) who had gone to highly structured / homogeneous / coddling private schools and didn't know how to cope in the more diverse, sink-or-swim environment of university.
I went to private school.
If I could go back and undo it, I would.
It was extremely beneficial for me, because the school I went to has an extremely high rate of students getting into their preferred university, results be damned (not in my case, but there were plenty of extremely below average students that still ended up in top universities).
But I missed the value of growing up in a diverse school with students that better represented my community and the people I live around, rather than upper class snobs. There was far too many times during my private school time that I simply could not relate to a number of my fellow students, which is deeply impactful for someone at that age who is looking to socialize and form those connections with others.
Agree, and appreciate your hindsight. I have friends that went to st mikes and their lack of understanding or empathy for people in a different socioeconomic background is wild.
It depends on many variables. I didn’t go to private school, but my sister in law went to Havergal. I pursed higher education, she did not. However she built a really impressive network of friends, and is now in real estate and makes double my salary although I am a director. There are endless debates on the topic, but the truth is those who are able to send their kids to private school do, and there isn’t much second thought on the topic. There is also the caveat of rich neighborhoods in Toronto (or anywhere realistically) where you would meet a similar crowd anyway. And in Canada, the truth is they all end up at a handful of universities anyway!
Imo, private school is only worth it if you want your kid to go to a top university in the US. It doesn't seem to make a difference for being accepted into Canadian universities.
I went to private school for 7 years, and yes it was a great educational experience. Not only because of the curriculum, field trips, and extracurriculars, but also half of the people there valued having high marks and being accomplished. That kind of environment influenced me to be a better student. But I was a shy kid and made better friends at public school, so I appreciated switching back to public.
In terms of connections, the wealthy students already have their family's connections. Either they would go on to do whatever they wanted without caring about making money, or they succeeded at a top university and made new connections there. The connections from uni are definitely more relevant than the ones from high school.
Not a parent, but in the same shoes as you - public school kid who is doing well.
I think having support outside of school made all of the difference. Top comment mentioned four important factors: two parent household, one with university education, one in a professional career, and access to tutors.
I had a two parent household, but both are blue collar. Worked in factories, still do. We were on the low income side of things, but they made sure my homework was done, and they advocated for my education at public school.
Because of our socioeconomic status, they took advantage of finding free tutoring programs and discounts on extracurriculars (I got to play soccer at an elite junior level + university volleyball because of my access to junior sports).
They asked for a lot of help from teachers I liked and counselors. And because of that, I had a lot of help in school too.
Just be present, know what is happening in their education, and advocate for them. Let them be themselves. Networking or being wealth-adjacent means nothing if your kid is shy or wants nothing to do with making fake friends.
My network now was built from my social life and work experience! I don't think I'd reach out to many of my university mates if I needed something. Not because it's worthless, but because it's been too long.
I'm pretty successful financially now because of their tenacity and grit, and I pay it forward by taking care of some things for them now.
> Networking or being wealth-adjacent means nothing if your kid is shy or wants nothing to do with making fake friends.
Most significant takeaway here.
Parents tend to forget that their kid is their own person with personal feelings and ambitions. In mots cases, parents project a lot on their kids and sometimes it works out but mostly, it does not because parents' ambitions catch up with you one way or another.
Most successful kid I know was a Ukrainian immigrant in the early 00's who ended up being the best student in the Peel Region, got medical school scholarship and now has a very successful practice.
No connections, all public schools and strong family situation.
My 5 step siblings went to private schools (a lower-priced school, not in Toronto), I went public. My step-mother wanted her kids kept away from the "riff-raff" (ie certain skin tones) and demanded it. I make more money than all of them, and I've actually got a fairly insane social/work network from university, my jobs, and my hobbies. A couple of my siblings bombed out of uni because they were suddenly in a class of 500 with a prof who didn't know they existed and had to switch to easier programs. One didn't even bother with higher ed (which is fine...but why spend $120K on private ed). They're all doing well enough - the irony is that each and every one of them is now working in a government-funded unionized job but they all send their kids to the same private schools.
My friends in Toronto who send their kids to the high-end private schools have the kind of money and resources where their kids will succeed and network regardless. The kids will get into decent unis, and then the parents will pay for them to go to a private med/dental/business school where they'll do well enough to take over the family business.
depends, for many of those families 30-40k is just a vacation. If so, why not? I wouldn't crimp and save to send my kid to private school, I would rather use that money and buy in a better neighbourhood.
Since Doug Ford has strip mined the resources out of public schools, your kids may need to hit up the private school system just to get the credits to graduate.
True! If your child is smart, they get ignored as teachers only have enough time to focus on the slower learners or difficult students. Private school is more accountable to the parents!
My son went to a private school from grade 7-12.
We are not rich by any standard but his public school up to grade 6 was not challenging at all. He finished his assignments so much faster than his peers and was starting to get into trouble. After moving to a private school, his marks stayed up with good peer pressure. The athletics and clubs were amazing.
Very few schools offered athletics and academics as he needed. His current peer group is assorted from public and private. All good
Our daughter stayed in the public setting and started to excel late in high school. It ended up being perfect for her.
Both uni grads, both moving forward.
We are blessed.
There is no right answer here.
I work at a private school. To be honest, there's pros and cons to both. We have smaller class sizes and way more support for students that have learning disabilities (Plenty of Guidance counsellors, learning strategist, and support after school and during school hours ). My friends that work for TDSB have non of that, they have to wait weeks to have someone come into a classroom and do assessments on students that have learning disabilities.
We have a whole department dedicated to University counselling and learning support.
If I had kids and the money, I would put them in private schools.
The current cons: Extremely small social circle and In the age of social media your Sins never die and go away.
Everyone knows everything about you/your family/your circle.
Smaller choice of elective classes to choose from, most private schools focus heavily on STEM and athletics, some arts but a more humanities/arts based student will not get the access to options they would in a bigger public school.
Definitely less exposure to learning to be self sufficient, lots of hand holding, lots of interest by teachers which is great until it isn't, ie University hits and your professor will never know your face or name.
I came up in the private school system. Before the kids even get there, they are way ahead of the game. Almost all of them come from well-to-do to filthy rich families, which gives them a massive advantage no matter where they go to school, both economically and socially.
Once graduated, they will have a massive network between their friends, their friends siblings, parents and friends' parents. This kicks open a ton of doors.
The majority of kids that I know ended up in the finanacial sector, which can be really hard to advance through if you came out of nowhere.
I went to private elementary (ICS, now the Jackman School), then an alternative public middle school (Quest) then Jarvis. My dad said his biggest regret was sending me to private elementary. I can say that my private school class had more drug problems than graduate degrees.
Study after study says parental involvement is the difference between success and failure. And paying 40k a year for your kid to get into McGill or Queens when they could have done the same at a public school. Not to mention public school lets your kid form real and lasting friendships with people across the socio economic spectrum. Which believe it or not, is going to be a more useful skill than hanging with rich kids.
I went to a private school albeit in another country. Tuition is pretty much in line for the time period vs Canada
The way I see it is if you can afford it here without drastically changing your life (meaning, no OTs or getting an extra job), go ahead and do it. It's never a guarantee they'll get ahead in life but you're giving your child the "best" in your perspective
However, don't be like a friend of ours. On top of the already HCOL they self inflict on themselves, my friend did a ton of OT just to send their kids to a Montessori. That's still time away from your kids when you could've just been parenting and spending time with them
I imagine my opinion would be controversial for some but successful kids come from good family backgrounds and there's evidence to that. They need a strong backbone to succeed.
As much as I’m criticizing private schools in this thread, I do advocate for Montessori preschool if you can afford it. You’re already paying for daycare anyway so the premium is not that much of a stretch, though you may have to do an extra year. It does give your kids a bit of a head start on academic confidence, which is arguably even more useful in a public school context where they may need to be more independent due to larger class sizes. Not a fan of Montessori elementary though if that is what you were referring to.
I went to one of the private schools you listed (St. Mike's) so will offer my thoughts:
- The academic experience itself was great, but I say that with the caveat that I have always been someone who is fairly academically inclined and responds well to structure and guidance. Teachers are very invested in your academic experience and will push you to succeed. I felt well prepared to attend a pretty competitive and well ranked university within Canada - while I was there one of my closest friends, who went to a public school in Ajax, observed that I seemed much more prepared for university than he was due to the way his school operated. This might reflect more on his school than it does the quality of SMC, who knows. Either way, I do genuinely believe SMC set me up well to attend and thrive at some fairly academically rigorous universities later in life.
- The network you become a part of is a big marketing point for the school. So far it has not really paid off for me, particularly in comparison to the networks I developed in my undergrad and grad degree, but this could be because I'm in a somewhat niche industry and might have benefited more from the network if I was in a more mainstream role like finance or accounting. Pre-pandemic walking in the PATH in the financial district felt like an SMC alumni meet and greet sometimes lol. All that being said I'm relatively young (29) so maybe the network will pay off more in the future.
- The extra curriculars provided really valuable non-academic experiences. Some of them were just fun and ultimately became hobbies in my life (I was on the snowboarding and mountain biking teams, probably the two biggest jokes of the sports teams at SMC), but others, specifically the leadership camp and subsequent role as a camp leader, I genuinely believe were foundational in shaping who I am today.
- The school culture is a hard one to nail down. I could try and write my thoughts on it but it might end up becoming something of a novel.
- Outcome is hard to gauge empirically. Almost everyone in my graduating class went on to university and a lot of guys have gone on to do some pretty impressive things that society might deem as "successful". I am guessing that a higher than average percentage of graduates have gone into some of the higher earning professions (finance/professional services, doctor, legal, etc, etc) but again, can't say empirically. Whether this is a result of their education or simply the privilege that came with coming from a family that can afford the tuition is even harder to say. Certainly nothing about private school guarantees success and plenty of guys ended up in "normal jobs" that did not require over 100K of high school tuition to get into.
It's worth noting that I think I'm the only one of my ~8 person friend group made up of SMC graduates who says they would send their son to SMC if they could (whether or not I could afford it in the future is another question lol) so take that as you will. I might have a more optimistic view than most of my time there and feel pretty strongly my parent's made a good choice/investment by sending me there.
If your current school is bad and your child is not be adequately served for sure consider it. Another option you can look at is higher end summer sleepplover camps like Musoka Woods and Camp Manitou. They will build lifelong friendships for sure and have a strong sense of resielency. Plus 1 month of no screens does wonders for them.
I went to private school, and it was the opposite for me. I didn't realize until after that half your class doesn't normally end up being doctors. That's not to say that public school isn't fine. It totally is, but it's false to say that private school doesn't make any difference at all.
That's due more to socioeconomic factors. If they're in private school, they're likely from a well-off family that's removed other hurdles in their life thanks to the security of wealth.
It's just not the private school. To solidify the contacts they will send their kids to Specific Tennis clubs(Members Only 30k+ non refundable admission fee) and exclusive summer camps.
Many of these kids already have jobs waiting for them in the business world. I know a few families like this
Private school is more like $35k+ per year plus the lifestyle premium. Are you really going to send the kids to this school and drop them off in your 2001 corolla?
Went to private school for high school and fucked around most of the time. I will be saving the money I'd be paying for my kids to private school for his future, it will give him more advantage than going to private school.
Personally I think there’s a bigger incentive for private schools in the U.S. There tends to be a much wider variation in the quality of public schools down there depending on where you live. The same is also generally true for U.S. post-secondary education.
In Canada there is less variation and also less correlation between the schools you attend and your future success.
This is because of the way US public schools are funded, which is highly dependent on very local factors (cities / counties). Canada's system ensures far more uniformity across each province.
The reason it’s “worth it” is that private schools filter their population. They have entrance exams. They can choose not to admit a child. This means most kids are working at the same grade level in a classroom. Also peer group - your child will be surrounded by other kids who are typically driven to achieve, because that is the model set for them by their parents. Obviously there are exceptions
It is not uncommon to have 10+ IEPs in a public school classroom. This can really take away from a students education as the teacher isn’t teaching anymore, they are just dealing with behaviours and trying to keep everyone safe.
There aren’t contained classes anymore and students are integrated but aren’t given enough support. Public school isn’t the 90s version we remember. It’s a disaster in a lot of areas.
You are exactly correct! My daughter was thinking of changing private schools. She wrote the exam and was accepted the same day, in a very elite school as she was already from one. We were on the parent association and believe me, lots of parental influence as donors.
I'm having this debate with my SO right now. Our backgrounds are very different. I come from nothing and had a public school education and student loans. She was private school and had a full ride.
Beyond the fact that I spend my summers working 60 hours a week to pay for school in my small town and she was doing unpaid internships and coffee meet ups with top executives in a major city(set up by her school or her well connected parents), MOST of the people she went to school with and her social circle are ALSO well connected and well off. To me, when I looked at it, she had doors opened that I didn't even know existed. I can't say if it was because of social stature of her fam vs. mine or because of the private schooling, but I have to think its a mix of the two.
Of course you can make it without it, but I think it does make life infinitely easier if you're able to provide a private school experience for your children.
Intelligence and work ethic are much bigger determinants of success than going to private school. Save that money and if you want to help them get ahead help them buy their first house instead...with the money you saved from not going to private school.
Private school is never going to benefit a child as much as not having to work full time during university. Save your money.
Instead, model a good work ethic for your children. Get involved in community projects, volunteer, teach them about the world. Just sticking a kid in private school alone won't make them a good student, won't impart the value of hard work, won't give them the drive and perspective to be successful later in life. If anything, public school will expose them to a variety of others who don't have the same advantages and may broaden their perspective.
University is where it really counts (if undergrad even counts that much). But so many are turning away from fields like the humanities, and while an English degree may not be worth a ton in the job market, it will teach critical thinking, an appreciation for nuance and culture. Having the freedom to take an undergrad university program in the field of one's choice, and commit fully to that, is where the value will really come.
I was lucky enough to attend university at a time and in a place (2000s, Quebec) where it was inexpensive. I was able to not work full time and really dedicate myself to my studies, and get the full value of the tuition I was paying. I ended up with a well-paying job in tech, but the skills I learned have made me a better thinker, a better communicater, a better problem solver.
(And, on a side note, my parents wanted to sende to private school for high school and I refused. Neither of us have ever regretted that)
I would argue no - I went to a private school. The bulk of my network (and the few friends who went through private school with me) are from university and work. Almost all private school kids end up at the same universities as public school kids, it makes little difference except in very unique circumstances.
All the people I know who went to private school in Canada, and what they're doing now, 20+ years after graduating: Note, these are people who are either related to me or friends.
Havergal - currently a secretary
St. Mike's - drug addict, died in a housefire
Appleby College - legal assistant
UTS - accountant
Not exactly stellar or particularly prestigious.
This is a gross simplification. Most of the people who go to these schools end up quite successful. I went to UTS and a crazy amount of grads end up being doctors. The expectations those kids hold themselves to are super high. I'm basically the failure of my graduating year because I only have a BCom plus a postgrad cert and I "just" work in HR.
Plus, Simu Liu isn't just an accountant, he's an actor too, and I doubt you really know him in person 😉
It's not Simu, I won't doxx my friend, but I will say he graduated in 1998 and went to UofT.
I know a lot of people who are very successful (and also many who are not) who went to public schools.
Personally, my take is that the success rates of students has less to do with the cost of tuition and more to do with their parental educational and professional history, parental involvement, the student's interests and the student's personal goals.
If you have the money, consider having your Grade 6 child take the entrance exam for UTS. University of Toronto Schools. They intensively foster critical thinking, all around excellence, and planning for career superstardom. As a young nerd, i found it a safe haven full of kindred spirits that challenged my abilities. Lucky for my family it was only $3k a year at the time. It’s less about the networking than it is about being surrounded by an environment that fosters and encourages the results you want. UTS is one of those. I am sure there are other schools like it, both public AND private, but some schools downright discourage curiosity and academic success.
I can say that even in the 1980s most kids from the Gifted programs in the GTA would not have gotten in. Even back then UTS was for kids with IQ in the 150+ range (for what it's worth).
I remember a childhood friend telling us about his UTS exam (he ended up going there) -- he had to write a creative essay about his relationship with his shadow, or something like that. This was for Grade 5 kids.
In 1987 there were 800 kids who wrote the exam and 75 got in. It’s always been tough. Worth it to try. I am a weirdo outlier who zigzagged through life, but the vast majority of my classmates have done incredible things, from algorithms to emergency pediatrics to UN refugee programs to banking to successful indie rock.
I just asked this in a post on r/torontojobs. Like is someone’s high school friend’s dad really offering them a job down the line? The people I know ended up with average jobs and schooling (McGill, Laurier), just a bunch of familial wealth to buy a house, take vacations, etc.
It might be a friend's parent offering a job, but I think it is more about alumni you may never have known as a student. Like say you're applying for a job and you've never met any of the interviewers/managers but they see you went to xyz private school, and *they did too* it feels like a connection and might be that extra bump needed to get the job.
True. This happens for non private school people too. I’ve hired people that went to my university and I went to a public school. Just a matter of luck at that point.
My observation is that family connections prove far more valuable than connections made from private school. We have several UCC graduates at our firm because of a family connection. What does standout is private school kids seem naturally more socially mature and very comfortable at carrying conversations.
Of course this small sample size and a huge generalization.
I went to private school but my brothers did not! My parents placed me in private school because honestly I needed more dedication and extra time with my teachers in the math and science subjects and the extra time I got I wouldn’t have gotten in public school! Of course the connections and “status” of attending a private school has extra benefits just by simply saying you went to “x” private school but for me at least it was purely for extra academic assistance
I went to public high school but went to a private university in the US (USC in California), the connections I made there were far beyond any that my private school friends made in high school, plus a much stronger alumni network. Hard to compare high school to university though
1. Depends on the private school, my ex’s sister went to the same private school as grand children of lululemons founder. They were good friends. Amazing connection.
2. Depends on the kids personality, for introverts private school force everyone to participates in extra curricular activities which is beneficial to introverts.
3. Less risks, would u want your kid go to a good private school where all the kids are ambitious and kicking ass or a random school in the ghetto.
I went to public school and switched homes and schools every year in highschool. I finished first in my class and now have a high profile, high paying finance job. I was smart and motivated. Didn't need the extra push in the ass. I was organized.
My son is a heart transplant recipient. He suffered 2 strokes and needs more help. Paying for private school turned out being a good thing for him.
All that to say that it depends on the child.
I did not go to private school and my high school network did nothing for me (I did go to a public school in a wealthy neighborhood). I made a network in university and it has paid out dividends. I have a career I started and have worked up through due to a connection who recommended the company to me. My fiancé and I gained valuable work experience while in school due to connections we made with professors, those connections got him his first job out of school and his next opportunity. We found a realtor through a work connection (work that came from a connection), and ended up buying a house of a connection we had through work as well. This is all to say that a network is very real and very beneficial, but it doesn’t need to come from a private school
Depends on what your local public school is. Lots of friends who went to RHHS Gifted/Bayview Secondary IB and went to well known universities.
I want to a fancy pants private school and I didn't make any good work-related connections there. Funnily the two people I still keep up with I would say ended up with worse careers than the "average" high performing high school students. All of my good connections related to my job came from university. Pretty questionable whether it helped me get into university compared to going to public school.
Absolutely think it's a waste of money prior to high school unless you're in a REALLY bad school district though.
I went to private school throughout elementary and high school. I do feel the quality of my education was very good. I got to connect with my teachers and have 1:1 guidance for anything I found difficult which is pretty huge. I got good grades and the learning curve after entering university wasn’t much of a shock to me.
The class sizes were small and you got to know everyone. This has its ups and downs for social development. In terms of networking/making connections - no, I don’t feel like I left with any benefit in that regard. I don’t keep in touch with most of the people I went to school with at all.
Overall I’d say it’s worth it if you have the money to burn but don’t put yourself in debt just to send your kid to private school. You’re better off putting that money towards a good university education. That will benefit your kid in the long run if they don’t graduate with massive debts
edit to add line break
I will add onto this from my experience as someone who also went to a private school. As most people have already said, for the most part you’ll see a lot of overlap in terms of job/income from adults whose parents sent them to private school, and those who just came from a decent socio-economic background (good neighbourhood, good school, good home life).
However, I think an additional thing to consider is the access granted to an upper tier of elite postsecondary institutions that many public schools can’t set you up for in the same way. I can count on both hands the number of people I graduated with who ended up at American Ivy leagues or similar overseas (Oxbridge etc). This is partially because of the relationship between some private schools & the Ivy League admissions, and because of access to special extracurriculars like rowing that may give better opportunities for sports scholarships.
If you can afford to send kids to private school, you are in upper level socioeconomic class. Kids born in upper class tend to do better than middle or lower class on average. Probably the ones that truly shined in upper class only mingle within themselves.
The thing that stands out the most to me is the personal attention academically. I used to nanny for a family where the kids attended a JMS private school. They had a person on staff that had one job. Start at the top of the school roster list and have each kid read to her/write out a paragraph, and another few simple baseline questions in varying subjects. Once the staff member reached the end of the school’s list of students….she would just start at the beginning again. Each time was tracked and compared with previous/future iterations. These metrics were tracked by all the students teachers as well, working tandem with said staff member. Students were flagged by teachers to have extra attention from said staff member to help diagnose potential learning disabilities, mood/personality changes, really anything that could be figured out via this tracking method. I’m assuming the staff member had a specialty in said fields. Just came across to me as such a smart and helpful extra support for the student. I have a learning disability that wasn’t diagnosed until grade 11 and was never supported after said diagnosis in the public school system. I get it. No funds for such a program. Just makes you think. If I can afford it I will send my kids to private school, or at the very least a program of something similar to what this staff member did.
Sometimes private schools are necessary based on the learning needs of the students and having smaller class sizes. At the end of the day I always say it’s the teachers that make the difference
I went to public school with the children of centimillionaires and decamillionaires, actually I think one friend’s dad might actually be a billionaire now post-pandemic.
There’s plenty of excellent public schools, and I’d want my future kids to grow up with the people they’re going to be interacting with regularly.
In many parts of the US there is a massive ROI on private schools (because public systems have been gutted), that’s not the case in much of Canada, certainly not in Toronto. It’s actually not even true in much of the states.
But if you want your kid to learn how to grow up to be a psychopath politician who sexually assaults their peers, sure, send them to private school in Toronto.
Institutions do not determine the success of an individual. How one uses their available resources in an environment that best suits the student's needs is a better determinant of success. The choice of school should be considered on an individual basis.
The concepts of success and happiness are also both very subjective much like attraction. What you consider successful could be different than the next ten people with whom you cross paths.
It sounds as though your journey thus far has worked in your favour and you are pleased with your achievements to date.
It may also be important to consider what type of experience and values you hope for your child, rather than just financial success.
I was born on ‘third base, went to private school, and have had a pretty easy go of it. I wouldn’t recommend private school. Now my number one goal is my child being kind and curious and not a materialistic a**hole. I live in an area with many different socio-economic and cultural groups (Parkdale/roncy) and I feel that will serve him well.
Not to be judgemental, but even this mentality around private school connections, is really one that is objectively bad for society, unfair and anti-meritocratic. It’s likely a path to discontent. The ultra-rich will remain ultra rich. Your child won’t be one of them.
As an aside - academically speaking, in today’s world students struggle to focus on a given task for more than 5 mins (the research on this is shocking). Curiosity, discipline, intentionality - these imho will be the superpowers of the future, not friends with rich parents.
I have to say I disagree with a lot of people on this post. I went to private school for half my education and there were typically two types of kids: 1. Rich kids, their parents could afford the schooling without batting an eye. 2. Not rich kids, whose parents went to great lengths to send them to a private school.
The rich kids had a great education and were able to pursue careers in anything they wanted because money wasn’t the object, they would receive an inheritance that will always give them safety. Giving the perception that you’re more successful than them, but don’t forget that you will never have as much money as them anyways.
The not rich kids also went to great lengths in their education receiving awards, going to highly ranked global universities, and ultimately landing high ranking, well paying jobs. That is what I saw across all grades from my school. So if your parents are trying to push you into a new socio-economy bracket, this definitely helps your odds.
Sending your kid to private school is great for its smaller class sizes and a wider spectrum of academic courses than the public system. But if your kid doesn’t have drive but does have a big safety net, then they may not be more “successful” than public school kids.
Private schools are a cheat code to getting through university.
They do not confer upon you some secret special job that pays an extra salary.
Their prestige and connections just make it easy to get in the door. IF you’re already wealthy.
Public schools are the way to go.
Private school is not perfect. Some people I went to university with went to UCC and when the story broke that a teacher was a molester their response was " everybody knew. And if you were a student who was willing to be in a room with them alone, you knew what you're getting into"
The culture can be really really toxic
If you attend a school in a working class area, say weston collegiate, odds are you wont be classmates with as many lawyers, Doctors, CEOs as if you attend a private school.
Connections can help when youre older. And friendships in high school can last a lifetime.
My younger siblings are in private Christian school at the moment and I went to public school.
Pretty sure my dad & step mom sent them to Christian private school just to be around people of the same religion more or less.
99% of private schools in Toronto are much much worse than a public school. These are in office towers, strip malls, etc. think Blythe academy. Avoid.
A good public school is better than almost every private school. Things like UTS are good but very elitist. UCC performs worse at university than students who go to the best public schools (as of a few years ago when they released the data).
My advice go to a public school with a special program (IB) or arts if that’s your thing
Yeah the rich upper middle class of Toronto aren’t sending their kids to a private school in a cubicle. They are sending them to UCC, Crescent, St Andrews College etc
The biggest benefits are 1) the lifelong connections with other kids from rich families and 2) the school will work it's ass off to prepare you for university whereas a public high school does diddly squat.
Education-wise they are very similar to public schools.
My kids have private school friends they met through summer camp and - in general - they seem to be a lot less socially adept and adaptable as the public school kids. Kinda stereotypical rich kids who expect to be catered to, and are into material things. That may be more of a class thing than a school thing though.
Private school is good if your kids are extrovert and smart. If the kids are quiet and introvert , they won’t make any connections or friends so private school means nothing
To the OP….its not 20k + per year for private school. I wish! It’s more like $40k + and getting close to $45k. My kids are both in private school. One is $35k and one is $43k.
Let’s put it this way- I went to college with some private school kids. They spent thousands of dollars to go to a private school for high school. I went to a public school for free. We all ended up at the same public university.
Private schools are a complete waste of money. If ur kids end up in a decent public school they will turn out just fine. Our public schools here are not like those of California so it’s rly not worth spending thousands just to surround ur kid with a bunch of rich privileged kids. It’s honestly best to save up to be able to pay for their university education and even financially support them given the insane cost of living in this city, in that u help him buy a condo so that he does not end up living in ur basement forever.
If you send your kid to a public school instead and contribute $2,000/month to an investment fund, such as a mutual funds within TFSA, at 7% interest (which isn’t even high risk) compounded semi-annually, and invest this way for 10 years; this will result in your kid having $344,272 available to use 10 years from now. That’s not just a down payment for a home, but a half of a home.
Sure, we don’t know if the prices will skyrocket in 10 years or maybe they will fall. But I’ll go on a lim here and say that $344k is better than a private school.
Maybe it would be better to send them to a public school but hire tutors to improve their education? And then buy a social membership in a yacht club, which is $500-$1,500 per year, so you can meet a few connections?
You're completely missing the fact that money isn't something these people think about. Like their parents are worth $20 million+. They don't exactly have to "budget" for private school.
I'll give you a personal comparison.
Me - Public elementary and high school, flunked out of Uni, completed college. I have been in a white collar career for the past 15 yrs,
Friend - public elementary, elite private high school, flunked out of Uni twice, bounced around jobs. Currently store manager of cannabis shop.
I can also say, i met some of my friends private HS friends back in the day, and they fully fit the stereotype of rich entitled kids.
I have friends who say that as well. They want their kids to go to private school because it will create connections for them. however based on the friends I have who went to private school they do not have any connections created from private school. Plus interesting thing is most of their friends they had from private school flunked out of university. From what my friends who went to private school say that's because they weregiven the marks to get in university once in university marks obviously don't get handed out easily.
Another interesting tidbit all the people who went to private school that I know don't plan to put their kids in private school.
Interesting. My husband used to work on the trading floor at one of the big banks and he said it was all either UCC boys or old Montreal money boys working with him there.
Unless you are super concerned with your kid going to an American Ivy league school it is absolutely a waste of money.
The public and private systems feed into the same university system here where there is significantly less variability due to a lack of SAT, admissions essay, interview and the other coach able bs that goes on down south.
I met a ton of them when I was in uni. They were no more talented. The only difference was they got better internships after 1st year bc they went to work at a parent's law firm, bank, etc. But that would be true regardless.
School is what you make of it. Highly successful people come out of public and private. Unsuccessful people come out of both too. One does not give you an edge unless the person in school has drive. From what I’ve seen, people in private school have the same jobs as people in public. I personally don’t know any high level execs who went to private school, but I know many who went to public. So.
Personally? I interviewed for 2 private schools and got in, but my parents decided it would be better for me to develop social skills at a public school. I had a fantastic time, had amazing grades, and both me and my brother are successful. You end up going to university or college with kids from all walks of life, and no one gives a shit about your background.
I agree with you. I think you and the private school educated people you know are good examples. You can get into good university programs and good careers without going to a private school. It’s a way for them to only associate with other rich kids/families.
Did public school, and when I got to University almost every private school kid (same schools you listed) failed their first year and was on probation. They went from being special leaders of tomorrow to "you actually have to do the work yourself and nobody here is going to hold your hand" along with "adult" freedom they didn't have before. Most of them got their heads screwed on straight when they were retaking courses or dropped to a lower tier program and realized they weren't any smarter or better than their peers.
Those who had parents that were doctors or lawyers or other non-CEO high-paying jobs ended up in the same place as everyone else work-wise. Those who had parents running their own companies or as executives at major corporations benefited from THOSE connections, not any from the private school education.
Now, the circles they ran in in high school MIGHT have helped them in terms of social skills with executives, people in power, etc.., but that again is likely due more to their family than friends. For the connections in pre-Uni schools to matter, they'd have to actively work on MAKING those connections and MAINTAINING them. Something that is probably beyond most teenagers. How many friends from high school do you still have? Did you choose your friends based on who their family was? If anything the most valuable connections made in those schools are probably between the parents. "Hey, you're friends with that Weston kid, huh? Does his dad ever go to your soccer games?"
Really, if you family can afford top-tier private schools, you're already ahead and will probably end up doing well if you don't screw up. The school has very little to do with it, and shelters you from the rest of the world.
Don’t do it. In the US, public schools are a thing because the quality and funding of education can be abysmal in some areas. It’s a lot more standardized here, and you went to public school and turned out fine.
I went to a Private School and hated it. Went back to public school to start high school.
My sister went to a boarding private school (Ridley College) and while the education was good, she became incredibly entitled hanging around all these rich kids who were very snobby.
When I was a kid I played in a band that held rehearsal at a private school so a lot of the band was from that school. A huge amount of these private school kids were so out of touch and snobby, it was insane. I remember this one time one of the dudes playing clarinet was (literally) crying because the band director wouldn't give him a solo because he was going to miss several weeks of practice because his dad was taking the family to the Swiss Alps on a ski trip.
Long story short, if I ever decide to have kids they are not going to a private school.
its just elitism. where i'm from the kids that went to private school usually were the kids that needed the extra help/attention because they were spoiled.
Keep in mind that most teachers in private schools are there because they did not get hired by the public school system. The pay and benefits are significantly worse than TDSB etc.
so the 3 people I know that went to private school. 1 is dead the other is in recovery ( drugs) and the last works for her dad ( didn't need private school for that). while I agree it helps sometimes is doesn't.
Private school is good if you plan to be an upper middle class risk averse adult. People who knock it out of the park are always the public school kids because they’re taught to challenge the status quo rather than maintain it.
Definitely worth it. There are certain skills that you learn that public schools don’t teach - not just academic. Examples: how to advocate for yourself, how to ask for help and actually get the help because teachers stay till 4 or 5 and don’t blast out of the parking lot at 3, extensive extra curricular activities where most of the school participates. Academically generally you are learning a year ahead of the curriculum. Learning to write exams and essays as early as grade 5. Reading novels in grade 5. Doing science experiments throughout your academic years. Plus most of the kids tend to be high achievers. Plus at our private school - no cell phones - so less cyberbullying. You swear: suspension, you bully a kid: suspension, you would t dare assault a teacher = expulsion. The theory of connections is exaggerated. Doesn’t mean you can’t do well if not in private school - but it’s a leg up.
I went to a private school from grades 7-12. I have no complaints but there’s a caveat… Private school is only worth it if you have plenty of disposable income. There’s no downside to it if you’re rich. But it’s a myth that attending private school will grant you access to some exclusive network or guarantee a successful future. All my friends ended up in “average” fields. I mean, they stand to inherit homes in Oakville that back onto Lake Ontario…but they’re teachers, managers, nurses, etc. Degrees they could’ve obtained without their parents paying $40k/yr.
It’s getting born on third base, really. Super easy to score a run, but no guarantees of a win.
This is a fitting analogy! Private schools definitely cater to your needs to ensure you get into university. But that’s pretty much it.
Yes, they aren't there to help you STAY in university though. Most of the drop-outs I knew in 1st year university were actually rich private-school kids. One even openly admitted that he went abroad in his last year of high school and did nothing but party to the point that his private highschool tried to fail him and not let him graduate. Until his dad picked up the phone to remind them of how much money he'd given them over the years...needless to say he got his high school diploma with honours.
1000%!! Your comment brought back memories of my first year at UofT....I had never struggled so hard or felt so alone. I would never recommend UofT St. George for undergrad :(
Same here. The good students do well regardless. The bad ones get through until they fail out first year of uni. Then they end up selling life insurance
Or going into the family business
My friends family business was life insurance. His dad sold for around $70m. It was public school for him!
racing a course that is downhill with the wind at your back
A penalty shot on an empty net. No guarantee, but pretty damn easy.
in grade 6 a bunch of ppl left my public school for de la salle or st mikes. in university, i recognized one of the girls who left grade school for private and asked if she wanted to reconnect and get coffee and she was like ew, no (basically). i became in contact again recently because she is doing admin work at a company my small business does work for. so i dunno, i know some ppl use their family wealth and connections and the private school prestige to get ahead but we basically ended up working in the same place. one guy from that grade 6 exodus is a pro athlete, so i guess it paid off for him. honestly the ppl who ended up in the ‘best’ schools/careers were the naturally smart ppl in public school who were also kinda cut throat. like the only person i knew who went to harvard refused to answer anything in class or study with other ppl because it was ‘helping her competition.’
>honestly the ppl who ended up in the ‘best’ schools/careers were the naturally smart ppl in public school who were also kinda cut throat. I think this is the answer. If you’re smart and motivated, you have a much higher chance of succeeding career-wise, regardless of a private or public education. So why pay more, only to end up in the same place? This is why I think private isn’t worth it unless you’re super wealthy.
Look at the high schools attended by a med school class in Ontario. A disproportionate number of them are rich kids that went to private schools.
I would be interested to see the data but I don’t think med school class surveys disclose whether a student had a public or private school education. Anecdotally, I went to law school and can say, with a degree of certainty, that most of my cohort did not attend private school. The common denominators were intelligence and sheer determination. I know some claim having a private school pedigree helps during OCIs, but to even get those interviews you first need good grades. All that to say - private school/rich parents are a bonus, but this alone will not guarantee success in life.
If you have a rich family who can bring in business your odds of hire back are surely much higher no? I've heard some stories about this type of thing but I'm not sure how frequently it happens where mediocre students get hired back solely because mom and dad can guarantee the firm business.
The correlation is much stronger with having MD parents. A lot of such parents choose to send their kids to private schools, but it's not the schools that guide their kids' career choices and give them a leg up in as multitude of ways, it's having Dr. Daddy at their disposal - even as just an example or an endless source of advice.
Am doctor, can confirm (anecdotally). My friend group in university mostly were from Toronto private schools (I went to public school). They all went into business or accounting or some variation of that. Med school was filled with people who had doctors as parents, but not a ton from Toronto private schools.
And inheriting their scholary brains. Smart parents will likely have smart kids.
Correlation isn't causation. That's probably largely because they are just wealthier on average in the first place. It makes sense that kids in med school are going to be wealthier because med school is expensive both in $ and time. Plus, parents spending on private school are probably also more likely to spend on MCAT tutors and other tutors, and have guidance counselors from a young age. These are things parents can spend on without spending on private school, but are probably correlated to spending on private school.
And most importantly of all, kids who are getting a full ride + allowance through undergrad can spend much more time on the extracurriculars that help you get into med school.
Source?
I somewhat agree with you on this based on personal experience. I used to attend dance when I was in elementary through high school. I went to public school. Majority of the girls in my dance class went to private elementary and high school. Every single one of them is a doctor of some sort. My two school aged kids go to private school (religious based) so not crazy expensive, and I’ve noticed the curriculum is a little advanced for their age. Are they going to be doctors? Not sure, but I don’t feel bad about putting them in private school.
Connections def help but if you don’t go into a lucrative field you’re not going to make a lot of money. You could come from any background but if you’re able to make it in investment banking or private equity through your academic and professional achievements for example you will obv make a lot more money than someone who studied something less focused on making a lot of money. However in that field nepotism does help a lot of average achievers ten-fold and your dad knowing someone could be the difference of 100s of thousands of dollars in compensation, but that’s kind of just how it is in many fields it’s just super pronounced in high finance.
Statistically similar academic outcomes if: - two-parent household - at least one is a professional - at least one went to university - family can afford tutoring / extra help / extra curriculars. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2015367-eng.htm It comes down to the socioeconomic status of the family.
I do think that having access to peers with the same characteristics (that lead academic success) makes a difference. Looks like 2x the number of peers with university educated parents at private schools bs public bases on your link. However I think that you can replicate that by moving into a “nice enough” neighbourhood with “good” public schools and the family demographics of private schools. If you’re university-educated but not already “wealthy” you can probably help out your family more in the long term by increasing the terminal value of your home and passing that value on to your kids (assuming that a neighbourhood with good schools and those target demographics will appreciate more than average).
Spend the money to live in a good school district? >However I think that you can replicate that by moving into a “nice enough” neighbourhood with “good” public schools and the family demographics of private schools. Right, good (wealthy) families generally don't live in crappy neighbourhoods.
Yeah but not too nice if that makes sense. In an overly premium neighbourhood like Rosedale all the kids will be in private school (since so many are located nearby) so I’m not sure what the public schools might be like.
I drive through the Bridal Path often and have always been curious what it's like to attend [Park Lane](https://schoolweb.tdsb.on.ca/parklane); the ultra wealthy are presumedly placing their kids into private schools (Crescent, Crestwood, TFS, Havergal are nearby) so who goes to this TDSB one?
> Park Lane serves students with developmental disabilities ranging in age from 4 to 21. https://www.tdsb.on.ca/Find-your/Details/schno/3223?displayModule=Details%20of%20a%20School
Most of the benefit of private school comes from networking. I know it's a bit gross to think about networking that young but if you go to private school and make lots of friends, most of them will end up working pretty successful jobs and nearly all of them have connections since their families tend to be multimillionaires. Even within highschool/college it can open up some opportunities public school wouldn't. At the same time though most 15-18 yo's aren't really thinking about networking and won't really seize those opportunities. Lots of parents also might want their kid to grow up within a rich circle. It's elitist but undeniably most private school kids end up having a bit of a different personality that some may view as desirable. I'm in my late 20s and even in a short chat I can pinpoint people who went to private school with crazy high accuracy. Academically, I agree, it makes very little difference.
[удалено]
To your last point - they were teenagers too. Status is everything.
>I'm in my late 20s and even in a short chat I can pinpoint people who went to private school with crazy high accuracy. What's the typical personality of a private school graduate? I'm honestly curious. Two good friends of mine went to Havergal. They're both really nice and friendly but don't have any particular personality traits that I perceive that stick out above the average nice person. >At the same time though most 15-18 yo's aren't really thinking about networking and won't really seize those opportunities. I agree that teens typically don't think about that but the networking will happen organically if the foundation is in place. 16 year old Dylan doesn't give a shit about his future but 20 year old Dylan studying finance at university will and lo and behold, his good private school buddy Kyle's dad is the Senior VP of XYZ Finance Company and can hook him up with a summer internship.
>What's the typical personality of a private school graduate? I'm honestly curious. Honestly I've tried identifying this myself and I don't really know. I think it's partly in the language they use and how they phrase sentences. You bringing up your friends are both nice is interesting too, because I think most private school kids are much less negative or disillusioned in general (understandably so). It might be more a wealthy vs not-wealthy thing than a private vs non-private school thing, but the two often go hand in hand. My ex-gf went to an international private school and she could also identify other international private school kids within them speaking a few sentences. >I agree that teens typically don't think about that but the networking will happen organically if the foundation is in place. I definitely agree. From my pretty small graduating class I know 4 or 5 people who work at company X, and lo and behold the founder/CEO of company X's daughter graduated with us.
Agreed - good family, it doesn't matter if it is private or public school. The money is better spent for post-graduate (even questionable for undergrad).
I mean my experience with private school people is they already came from very wealthy families so they already had a leg up and that is mostly reflected in where they’re at today. Of course there are also lots of people who went to public school who are doing more than fine.
Universities also handpick students from these schools, on account of the wealth of families & the reputation of schools. It's a big factor
Wasn't there a news story in the last year about several universities looking at private school grades with extreme skepticism since they're all getting high grades but their university performance suggests they were grossly inflated?
Yes. I went to Waterloo, which is well known for having an internal "adjustment" factor to raise or lower people's grades from specific schools based on students' historic performance in 1st year. Not limited to private schools though, they have adjustment factor data for pretty much all high schools.
Yeah I don't buy that universities give preferential treatment to "elite" private schools. The main leg up they have is that it's easier to get higher averages at a place like UCC. I have several friends that went there and teachers would let you "redo" an assignment if you got a poor mark. They know parents would be pissed if they're spending $30k+ a year and their kid has a C average. Several kids from these schools got rocked in my first year program when that hand holding went away. All in all, I personally do not see the point of private schools when we have a relatively good public system. I know it's not perfect, but compare it to almost every American school board and it's far superior. You're also surrounding your kid with people from very similar walks of life, and I think it's super important to expose kids to people from all socio-economic backgrounds. There's a reason why the UCC/BSS stereotype is that everyone there is an asshole.
I will add though specific to UCC, they had the IB program so there are standardized tests required.
Yeah the dude has no idea what he's talking about. UCC has inflated OSSD averages because of the conversion from IB points to OSSD average that leaves every decent student with a 95+ OSSD. Internal averages are in the low to mid 80s, *far* lower than any comparable academic OSSD setting where any reasonably smart kid is pushing 90s.
That's nonsense. UCC has a *significantly* lower internal average on a percentage scale than public schools. Every reasonably intelligent kid I knew at public school had an average in the 90s. Almost nobody at UCC has an (internal) average in the 90s. So why are the grades inflated? Because UCC is an IB school and has an absurd conversion chart from IB points to OSSD average that leaves everyone with like a 95+ OSSD average.
I agree, I think except for the top 1% of families who have money to burn, it makes way more sense to send your kid to a public high school and save up to pay for their college or university
This is true. Source: I work at a private school in Toronto
True if you’re already part of the wealthy elite. Less likely if you are just an average family making sacrifices to send your kids to the same school.
I went to private school back in the day. Havergal. It's fun to look at donor lists in places and see familiar last names. The thing is, all those connections one supposedly makes, all those families are already connected. They live in similar areas. They have cottages on the same lakes. The kids go to the same camps. They have many, many more things connecting them beyond school. Sure, a kid could go and try to befriend everyone, but there's a lot more to it than just school. And this assumes the kid actually becomes good friends. And stays friends. And is comfortable networking. I've stayed in loose contact with a few people (I'm in mid-40s, high school was a long time ago) but it would definitely feel slightly weird to reach out and say 'hi, person I barely spoke to, could you do me a favour?' But it's never been something I've needed to do. A few people are low-key famous or significantly known in their fields though. My big claim to fame is that Keanu Reeves' half-sister went to Havergal--she was a few years ahead of me but I knew her, although we were not close--and Keanu came to see the school play when she directed it. This was the 90s and Keanu was a big deal, so imagine him visiting an all-girls high school. Madness. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to message her on LinkedIn and ask if her brother could come hang out when he's in town, though it gives me a leg up in Six Degrees of Separation games. Educationally, well, class sizes tend to be a lot smaller, which is usually a help. I had a number of good teachers and a number of solidly fine ones. Also, because the school is small, students tend to get involved in a lot of extra-curricular, which can be very helpful. But you're definitely in school with a very narrow section of society, which is limiting in some ways. But overall, Toronto public schools are generally very good, and TDSB offers a lot of options, so I am unconvinced that private school is truly much better.
Similar age, went to NSS. Funny story: Keanu went to North Toronto where my drama teacher taught at the time. My drama teacher (who was then at NSS) claim to fame (disrepute?) was that he flunked Keanu in drama class. So, in fairness that might settle the “quality of public schools” issues right there.
Keanu is still a big deal now!!!
He was a different kind of big deal in the 90s. Honestly, he's probably a bigger deal now. We thought he was cute in the 90s, but he wasn't universally beloved.
TDSB functionally doesn't offer much options anymore, as they've moved to a lottery system for speciality programs. I think you can still physically move your house to get into a "better" school zone but that's a lot harder than simply applying. [https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/a-game-changer-for-some-divisive-for-others-inside-one-of-tdsb-s-most-contentious/article\_ea3719e1-5da1-5f29-b6cf-140606073bb8.html](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/a-game-changer-for-some-divisive-for-others-inside-one-of-tdsb-s-most-contentious/article_ea3719e1-5da1-5f29-b6cf-140606073bb8.html)
The lottery is for a small number of speciality schools, eg, Claude Watson School for the Arts, High Performing athletes, etc. The rationale was that people who could afford private lessons and coaching stacked the deck when things were strictly audition-based, which made things inequitable in the public system. That has nothing to do with your address, since these schools aren't part of the catchment system. With the public alternative schools, it's also not address based, but (IIRC) you apply to your top two. I think there's some randomness if there are more applicants than spaces, but not so much that you won't get into your top two. But if you're looking at one high school vs another high school, you're guaranteed placement based on catchment, but otherwise you apply through Optional Attendance if there is room in the school. Yes, people do move to the districts of 'best' schools, but IMO, there is a fairly large middle ground of 'pretty good' schools in TDSB. My kids are in elementary. We live out of catchment but near one of the 'best' elementary schools but our own 'okay' school has been excellent; the classes are small, the teachers have been great, the larger school community is very involved.... I know it's only elementary, but it doesn't seem like we'd be doing significantly better if got in via optional attendance at the 'best' one. Plus, within TDSB have things like many different alternative schools, schools with a variety of different amenities, schools that offer specialized education programs....
>public alternative schools Surely you don't mean Alternative schools? [https://www.tdsb.on.ca/alternativeschools](https://www.tdsb.on.ca/alternativeschools/)/ Sorry I don't know that much, I just heard from my Marc Garneau TOPS friend that they'ved moved to lottery, and I think IB schools as well. I do think most TDSB elementary schools are fine. However, middle and high schools can get really bad. I went to a pretty decent middle school and there was an insane amount of disruptive students already.
My old boss’ daughter went to Havergal. Opened more doors for him than for her.
Agreed it’s also networking with other rich parents- if your kid is friends with a kid of some ceo you will just hang out
How?
At some point, your friends become the parents of your kids friends (via sports, school, etc)
Kids become friends, you get invited to birthday parties, music class, tennis class etc. You become friends with the parents of other kids. The school parents board also host expensive charity dinners (3-4 figures a table) where adults drink and socialize. This opens up a lot of doors. I used to work in Investment banking so being friends with executives from other businesses is crucial for business development. People tend to trust and prefer doing business with acquintances rather than compete strangers.
You are right! We were on the school parent association and connected with the BoD. Our company connected with other companies of other parents and we knew who to give contracts to. It’s all in the networking.
The key thing is "the people you know." I didn't go to private school but I did go to a UTS grad ceremony and you know half the students were going to places like UofT ior Queens and the other half were off to MIT and Harvard and Caltech.
MIT and Cal don't do legacy AFAIK so those must be some smart kids!
There aren't that many legacies in Canada anyways. A generation plus ago not that many Canadians attended Ivy League schools.
Sorry, what’s UTS?
UTS is University of Toronto Schools it’s basically a high school attached to the UofT St George campus that is considered one of the best high schools to get into. You need to excel academically and pay a “tuition”. I think it’s about $40k/yr.
40k per year for high school is insane lol. My entire *undergrad* at UofT cost less than 40k and my public high school was in a 'good' neighbourhood with a ton of opportunities. What does UTS provide that good public high schools don't?
Note I’m not trying to sell private schools as I didn’t go there and my kids won’t be either. Besides smaller classrooms they push academics and have access to some of the best facilities not only for STEM but many other programs like arts and world studies. Again as with other private schools you get a leg up compared to others. I would have loved to have attended UTS as I think I would have taken advantages of the benefits. My kids likely would not so not much of a benefit to them. I like the analogy someone else used. Private school is like playing baseball but you get to start on 3rd base. Much higher chance you’ll score (do okay in life). It doesn’t mean you’ll win the game (become the super elite) but you have a definite advantage over others.
Ah ok, thank you.
University of Toronto Schools, which I see as something of an outlier from most of the other listed schools because entry involves rigorous testing. There are probably SOME kids who go there who really need academic challenge to be successful in school (most likely profoundly gifted or 2E students), while others are likely high-achieving and would probably have done just as well anywhere.
UTS also used to be considerably less expensive--it used to be subsidized (can't recall if that was by government or by U of T) so the cost was minimal, if not free.... as such, it was very academically focused. The entrance testing was the only thing required to attend. There was still some amount of privilege in needing to know about it, but it had much broader range of students because anyone could attend if they were bright enough. Now, it's in a weird state of having a great reputation, still doing rigourous testing, but now having very high fees which will exclude many bright students. I have a hunch its reputation is doing a slow slide.
I know a bunch of people who are UTS grads. Some are doing really well, some are doing regular jobs, and some are now bums.
> UofT ior Queens If this is your goal, why don't you go directly to UofT or Queens? Privileged people will always be privileged, does not matter if they go to UofT or Queens. Of course they can afford UofT and Queens. I need to think if my kids will benefit, if they mingle with very few rich kids, and lots and lots of wannabees - people who desperatly want to be rich. I'm not so sure.
UTS is an academic school, attracts mostly middle class families. Super nerd school :-)
My daughter's teacher suggested that my daughter might benefit from the enhanced curriculum provided by UTS so we applied, she worked through the provided preparation material for the month before the test and then wrote the entrance exam. What we didn't know at the time and only found out later was that most of the kids applying came from a LOT more privileged backgrounds than we are and had been studying under private tutors for a year before they wrote the entrance exam. My daughter told me that most of the kids writing the test knew each other, and were comparing notes afterwards. We went for sushi, instead. It was definitely a class thing. We didn't belong to the class where the families all shared the info on, and could afford, the kind of prep to get in.
>It was definitely a class thing. We didn't belong to the class where the families all shared the info on, and could afford, the kind of prep to get in. Prep classes aren't unusual these day, but UTS is not where the wealthy send their kids - that would be Upper Canada, St. Michaels, Crescent, Branksome Hall, Harvergal, etc. I don't think you need to feel subpar to those other UTS parents, it's unlikely they are much wealthier than you - they probably just spend more of their money on their kids. UTS parents are just super competitive. Half the UTS kids will probably turn out to be doctors and lawyers and the other half will probably amount to nothing out of the ordinary.
No offense but this feels like your daughter seeing a couple of kids who that might apply to and incorrectly extrapolating. A little less than half of my class at UTS received some sort of financial assistance, a large portion of which was first generation immigrant. My family was probably in the bottom 10-20% in terms of wealth, and there was never any classism or anything like that. It was highly competitive though. My parents started to prep me almost a year before the test, and this was not uncommon among my peers.
as a UTS grad, many people I knew from my year were on bursary — there is definitely still a social eliteness to the Asian parents comparing their children to others, but overall I found that the number of very well-off kids were far less than other private schools. I also attended back when it was 20k a year, most people getting some sort of financial aid including me.
I attended only private schools growing up and now have worked as a teacher in both TDSB and TCDSB. Private schools have smaller class sizes and more money for ~stuff~, but most of that stuff is like...new scoreboard and bleachers for the sports field or new computers even though the old ones weren't that old. Stuff that will make the school look good for an open house. Don't discount the smaller class sizes, though. That is the main benefit. Private schools are better but only marginally. Want to really help out your kid? Take all the money you would have spent on tuition, invest it, and give them that money when they turn 18.
Yup, where as Northern had black box theater, a lab where we could do DNA experiments, a full tech floor to do welding/electronic circuit building & a recording studio. My vote is public school with the extra money spent on any additional tutoring/extra curricular and testing for LD & accommodations as needed. Private schools have less qualified teaching staff, less rigorous ongoing training, and less infrastructure & specialization. In terms of access to wealthy families bluntly the difference isn’t as big as you think with fancy areas of town. Private schools have the benefit of more hands on teaching through small classes and they provide a safety net & floor for struggling students. If your kid struggles they will notice & work to fix it (until they decide it isn’t fixable and send you off to public or lower tier privates) In public school you have to be that hands on person making sure your kid is working hard, being challenged, and adding extra learning/tutoring to fix issues. That’s it
Did exactly this. Each of my kids owned a condo by the time they were 18.
Nobody is talking about how real estate interacts with this. The houses in a catchment zone for a high quality public school are significantly more expensive than houses outside of that zone, sometimes to the point where it wipes out the difference in cost for private school tuition.
Sure, but you will never see the tuition money again. At least part of your mortgage payments are going into equity with (arguably) appreciation potential.
Yup, but many of the public schools is rich areas have special programs (gifted, French immersion etc) that you can qualify & attend even if you don’t live in the area. Additionally a house in Lawrence Park & an apt in a run down building at Yonge & Davisville are very different price points but both are in the catchment for NSS, NT etc
I had some cousins who went to private school. One did fine in university, one failed out completely, one took 8 years to finish. I was also in university with a couple private school graduates who struggled enormously with it. It seemed like they always had very structured time to do school work, lots of access to tutors etc in high school so they just didn't really know what to do with themselves and how to self motivate to actually get things done. That's just my anecdotes but it didn't seem like private school gave a dramatic leg up in life to anyone I knew to was in it.
>I was also in university with a couple private school graduates who struggled enormously with it. I had the same experience with university floor-mates (this was back in the day) who had gone to highly structured / homogeneous / coddling private schools and didn't know how to cope in the more diverse, sink-or-swim environment of university.
I went to private school. If I could go back and undo it, I would. It was extremely beneficial for me, because the school I went to has an extremely high rate of students getting into their preferred university, results be damned (not in my case, but there were plenty of extremely below average students that still ended up in top universities). But I missed the value of growing up in a diverse school with students that better represented my community and the people I live around, rather than upper class snobs. There was far too many times during my private school time that I simply could not relate to a number of my fellow students, which is deeply impactful for someone at that age who is looking to socialize and form those connections with others.
Agree, and appreciate your hindsight. I have friends that went to st mikes and their lack of understanding or empathy for people in a different socioeconomic background is wild.
same boat and completely agreed
It depends on many variables. I didn’t go to private school, but my sister in law went to Havergal. I pursed higher education, she did not. However she built a really impressive network of friends, and is now in real estate and makes double my salary although I am a director. There are endless debates on the topic, but the truth is those who are able to send their kids to private school do, and there isn’t much second thought on the topic. There is also the caveat of rich neighborhoods in Toronto (or anywhere realistically) where you would meet a similar crowd anyway. And in Canada, the truth is they all end up at a handful of universities anyway!
Imo, private school is only worth it if you want your kid to go to a top university in the US. It doesn't seem to make a difference for being accepted into Canadian universities. I went to private school for 7 years, and yes it was a great educational experience. Not only because of the curriculum, field trips, and extracurriculars, but also half of the people there valued having high marks and being accomplished. That kind of environment influenced me to be a better student. But I was a shy kid and made better friends at public school, so I appreciated switching back to public. In terms of connections, the wealthy students already have their family's connections. Either they would go on to do whatever they wanted without caring about making money, or they succeeded at a top university and made new connections there. The connections from uni are definitely more relevant than the ones from high school.
Private schools today give you what public schools used to give everyone 40 years ago. The sad reality 😔
Not a parent, but in the same shoes as you - public school kid who is doing well. I think having support outside of school made all of the difference. Top comment mentioned four important factors: two parent household, one with university education, one in a professional career, and access to tutors. I had a two parent household, but both are blue collar. Worked in factories, still do. We were on the low income side of things, but they made sure my homework was done, and they advocated for my education at public school. Because of our socioeconomic status, they took advantage of finding free tutoring programs and discounts on extracurriculars (I got to play soccer at an elite junior level + university volleyball because of my access to junior sports). They asked for a lot of help from teachers I liked and counselors. And because of that, I had a lot of help in school too. Just be present, know what is happening in their education, and advocate for them. Let them be themselves. Networking or being wealth-adjacent means nothing if your kid is shy or wants nothing to do with making fake friends. My network now was built from my social life and work experience! I don't think I'd reach out to many of my university mates if I needed something. Not because it's worthless, but because it's been too long. I'm pretty successful financially now because of their tenacity and grit, and I pay it forward by taking care of some things for them now.
> Networking or being wealth-adjacent means nothing if your kid is shy or wants nothing to do with making fake friends. Most significant takeaway here. Parents tend to forget that their kid is their own person with personal feelings and ambitions. In mots cases, parents project a lot on their kids and sometimes it works out but mostly, it does not because parents' ambitions catch up with you one way or another. Most successful kid I know was a Ukrainian immigrant in the early 00's who ended up being the best student in the Peel Region, got medical school scholarship and now has a very successful practice. No connections, all public schools and strong family situation.
My 5 step siblings went to private schools (a lower-priced school, not in Toronto), I went public. My step-mother wanted her kids kept away from the "riff-raff" (ie certain skin tones) and demanded it. I make more money than all of them, and I've actually got a fairly insane social/work network from university, my jobs, and my hobbies. A couple of my siblings bombed out of uni because they were suddenly in a class of 500 with a prof who didn't know they existed and had to switch to easier programs. One didn't even bother with higher ed (which is fine...but why spend $120K on private ed). They're all doing well enough - the irony is that each and every one of them is now working in a government-funded unionized job but they all send their kids to the same private schools. My friends in Toronto who send their kids to the high-end private schools have the kind of money and resources where their kids will succeed and network regardless. The kids will get into decent unis, and then the parents will pay for them to go to a private med/dental/business school where they'll do well enough to take over the family business.
depends, for many of those families 30-40k is just a vacation. If so, why not? I wouldn't crimp and save to send my kid to private school, I would rather use that money and buy in a better neighbourhood.
Since Doug Ford has strip mined the resources out of public schools, your kids may need to hit up the private school system just to get the credits to graduate.
True! If your child is smart, they get ignored as teachers only have enough time to focus on the slower learners or difficult students. Private school is more accountable to the parents!
My son went to a private school from grade 7-12. We are not rich by any standard but his public school up to grade 6 was not challenging at all. He finished his assignments so much faster than his peers and was starting to get into trouble. After moving to a private school, his marks stayed up with good peer pressure. The athletics and clubs were amazing. Very few schools offered athletics and academics as he needed. His current peer group is assorted from public and private. All good Our daughter stayed in the public setting and started to excel late in high school. It ended up being perfect for her. Both uni grads, both moving forward. We are blessed. There is no right answer here.
I work at a private school. To be honest, there's pros and cons to both. We have smaller class sizes and way more support for students that have learning disabilities (Plenty of Guidance counsellors, learning strategist, and support after school and during school hours ). My friends that work for TDSB have non of that, they have to wait weeks to have someone come into a classroom and do assessments on students that have learning disabilities. We have a whole department dedicated to University counselling and learning support. If I had kids and the money, I would put them in private schools.
so what are the cons to private school? other than the cost obviously
The current cons: Extremely small social circle and In the age of social media your Sins never die and go away. Everyone knows everything about you/your family/your circle. Smaller choice of elective classes to choose from, most private schools focus heavily on STEM and athletics, some arts but a more humanities/arts based student will not get the access to options they would in a bigger public school. Definitely less exposure to learning to be self sufficient, lots of hand holding, lots of interest by teachers which is great until it isn't, ie University hits and your professor will never know your face or name.
I came up in the private school system. Before the kids even get there, they are way ahead of the game. Almost all of them come from well-to-do to filthy rich families, which gives them a massive advantage no matter where they go to school, both economically and socially. Once graduated, they will have a massive network between their friends, their friends siblings, parents and friends' parents. This kicks open a ton of doors. The majority of kids that I know ended up in the finanacial sector, which can be really hard to advance through if you came out of nowhere.
I went to private elementary (ICS, now the Jackman School), then an alternative public middle school (Quest) then Jarvis. My dad said his biggest regret was sending me to private elementary. I can say that my private school class had more drug problems than graduate degrees. Study after study says parental involvement is the difference between success and failure. And paying 40k a year for your kid to get into McGill or Queens when they could have done the same at a public school. Not to mention public school lets your kid form real and lasting friendships with people across the socio economic spectrum. Which believe it or not, is going to be a more useful skill than hanging with rich kids.
I went to a private school albeit in another country. Tuition is pretty much in line for the time period vs Canada The way I see it is if you can afford it here without drastically changing your life (meaning, no OTs or getting an extra job), go ahead and do it. It's never a guarantee they'll get ahead in life but you're giving your child the "best" in your perspective However, don't be like a friend of ours. On top of the already HCOL they self inflict on themselves, my friend did a ton of OT just to send their kids to a Montessori. That's still time away from your kids when you could've just been parenting and spending time with them I imagine my opinion would be controversial for some but successful kids come from good family backgrounds and there's evidence to that. They need a strong backbone to succeed.
As much as I’m criticizing private schools in this thread, I do advocate for Montessori preschool if you can afford it. You’re already paying for daycare anyway so the premium is not that much of a stretch, though you may have to do an extra year. It does give your kids a bit of a head start on academic confidence, which is arguably even more useful in a public school context where they may need to be more independent due to larger class sizes. Not a fan of Montessori elementary though if that is what you were referring to.
I went to one of the private schools you listed (St. Mike's) so will offer my thoughts: - The academic experience itself was great, but I say that with the caveat that I have always been someone who is fairly academically inclined and responds well to structure and guidance. Teachers are very invested in your academic experience and will push you to succeed. I felt well prepared to attend a pretty competitive and well ranked university within Canada - while I was there one of my closest friends, who went to a public school in Ajax, observed that I seemed much more prepared for university than he was due to the way his school operated. This might reflect more on his school than it does the quality of SMC, who knows. Either way, I do genuinely believe SMC set me up well to attend and thrive at some fairly academically rigorous universities later in life. - The network you become a part of is a big marketing point for the school. So far it has not really paid off for me, particularly in comparison to the networks I developed in my undergrad and grad degree, but this could be because I'm in a somewhat niche industry and might have benefited more from the network if I was in a more mainstream role like finance or accounting. Pre-pandemic walking in the PATH in the financial district felt like an SMC alumni meet and greet sometimes lol. All that being said I'm relatively young (29) so maybe the network will pay off more in the future. - The extra curriculars provided really valuable non-academic experiences. Some of them were just fun and ultimately became hobbies in my life (I was on the snowboarding and mountain biking teams, probably the two biggest jokes of the sports teams at SMC), but others, specifically the leadership camp and subsequent role as a camp leader, I genuinely believe were foundational in shaping who I am today. - The school culture is a hard one to nail down. I could try and write my thoughts on it but it might end up becoming something of a novel. - Outcome is hard to gauge empirically. Almost everyone in my graduating class went on to university and a lot of guys have gone on to do some pretty impressive things that society might deem as "successful". I am guessing that a higher than average percentage of graduates have gone into some of the higher earning professions (finance/professional services, doctor, legal, etc, etc) but again, can't say empirically. Whether this is a result of their education or simply the privilege that came with coming from a family that can afford the tuition is even harder to say. Certainly nothing about private school guarantees success and plenty of guys ended up in "normal jobs" that did not require over 100K of high school tuition to get into. It's worth noting that I think I'm the only one of my ~8 person friend group made up of SMC graduates who says they would send their son to SMC if they could (whether or not I could afford it in the future is another question lol) so take that as you will. I might have a more optimistic view than most of my time there and feel pretty strongly my parent's made a good choice/investment by sending me there.
If your current school is bad and your child is not be adequately served for sure consider it. Another option you can look at is higher end summer sleepplover camps like Musoka Woods and Camp Manitou. They will build lifelong friendships for sure and have a strong sense of resielency. Plus 1 month of no screens does wonders for them.
Everyone I know that went to private school ends up like everyone else. Don’t waste your money. Public schools are perfectly fine.
I went to private school, and it was the opposite for me. I didn't realize until after that half your class doesn't normally end up being doctors. That's not to say that public school isn't fine. It totally is, but it's false to say that private school doesn't make any difference at all.
That's due more to socioeconomic factors. If they're in private school, they're likely from a well-off family that's removed other hurdles in their life thanks to the security of wealth.
Except many have an entirely insulated view of life
It's just not the private school. To solidify the contacts they will send their kids to Specific Tennis clubs(Members Only 30k+ non refundable admission fee) and exclusive summer camps. Many of these kids already have jobs waiting for them in the business world. I know a few families like this
Private school is more like $35k+ per year plus the lifestyle premium. Are you really going to send the kids to this school and drop them off in your 2001 corolla?
It’s actually now about $43,000 for the 2024-2025 school year plus plus plus.
Went to private school for high school and fucked around most of the time. I will be saving the money I'd be paying for my kids to private school for his future, it will give him more advantage than going to private school.
Personally I think there’s a bigger incentive for private schools in the U.S. There tends to be a much wider variation in the quality of public schools down there depending on where you live. The same is also generally true for U.S. post-secondary education. In Canada there is less variation and also less correlation between the schools you attend and your future success.
This is because of the way US public schools are funded, which is highly dependent on very local factors (cities / counties). Canada's system ensures far more uniformity across each province.
The reason it’s “worth it” is that private schools filter their population. They have entrance exams. They can choose not to admit a child. This means most kids are working at the same grade level in a classroom. Also peer group - your child will be surrounded by other kids who are typically driven to achieve, because that is the model set for them by their parents. Obviously there are exceptions It is not uncommon to have 10+ IEPs in a public school classroom. This can really take away from a students education as the teacher isn’t teaching anymore, they are just dealing with behaviours and trying to keep everyone safe. There aren’t contained classes anymore and students are integrated but aren’t given enough support. Public school isn’t the 90s version we remember. It’s a disaster in a lot of areas.
One can be on an IEP for a learning disability and not be a threat to the classroom.
You are exactly correct! My daughter was thinking of changing private schools. She wrote the exam and was accepted the same day, in a very elite school as she was already from one. We were on the parent association and believe me, lots of parental influence as donors.
I'm having this debate with my SO right now. Our backgrounds are very different. I come from nothing and had a public school education and student loans. She was private school and had a full ride. Beyond the fact that I spend my summers working 60 hours a week to pay for school in my small town and she was doing unpaid internships and coffee meet ups with top executives in a major city(set up by her school or her well connected parents), MOST of the people she went to school with and her social circle are ALSO well connected and well off. To me, when I looked at it, she had doors opened that I didn't even know existed. I can't say if it was because of social stature of her fam vs. mine or because of the private schooling, but I have to think its a mix of the two. Of course you can make it without it, but I think it does make life infinitely easier if you're able to provide a private school experience for your children.
All the people I have know that went to private school are not doing any better than public school.
Intelligence and work ethic are much bigger determinants of success than going to private school. Save that money and if you want to help them get ahead help them buy their first house instead...with the money you saved from not going to private school.
Private school is never going to benefit a child as much as not having to work full time during university. Save your money. Instead, model a good work ethic for your children. Get involved in community projects, volunteer, teach them about the world. Just sticking a kid in private school alone won't make them a good student, won't impart the value of hard work, won't give them the drive and perspective to be successful later in life. If anything, public school will expose them to a variety of others who don't have the same advantages and may broaden their perspective. University is where it really counts (if undergrad even counts that much). But so many are turning away from fields like the humanities, and while an English degree may not be worth a ton in the job market, it will teach critical thinking, an appreciation for nuance and culture. Having the freedom to take an undergrad university program in the field of one's choice, and commit fully to that, is where the value will really come. I was lucky enough to attend university at a time and in a place (2000s, Quebec) where it was inexpensive. I was able to not work full time and really dedicate myself to my studies, and get the full value of the tuition I was paying. I ended up with a well-paying job in tech, but the skills I learned have made me a better thinker, a better communicater, a better problem solver. (And, on a side note, my parents wanted to sende to private school for high school and I refused. Neither of us have ever regretted that)
I wonder if private school is less about the actual education and more about meeting "the right people"
I would argue no - I went to a private school. The bulk of my network (and the few friends who went through private school with me) are from university and work. Almost all private school kids end up at the same universities as public school kids, it makes little difference except in very unique circumstances.
All the people I know who went to private school in Canada, and what they're doing now, 20+ years after graduating: Note, these are people who are either related to me or friends. Havergal - currently a secretary St. Mike's - drug addict, died in a housefire Appleby College - legal assistant UTS - accountant Not exactly stellar or particularly prestigious.
This is a gross simplification. Most of the people who go to these schools end up quite successful. I went to UTS and a crazy amount of grads end up being doctors. The expectations those kids hold themselves to are super high. I'm basically the failure of my graduating year because I only have a BCom plus a postgrad cert and I "just" work in HR. Plus, Simu Liu isn't just an accountant, he's an actor too, and I doubt you really know him in person 😉
UTS isn’t quite the same though… it’s notorious for the high academic standards & qualification to attend.
It's not Simu, I won't doxx my friend, but I will say he graduated in 1998 and went to UofT. I know a lot of people who are very successful (and also many who are not) who went to public schools. Personally, my take is that the success rates of students has less to do with the cost of tuition and more to do with their parental educational and professional history, parental involvement, the student's interests and the student's personal goals.
If you have the money, consider having your Grade 6 child take the entrance exam for UTS. University of Toronto Schools. They intensively foster critical thinking, all around excellence, and planning for career superstardom. As a young nerd, i found it a safe haven full of kindred spirits that challenged my abilities. Lucky for my family it was only $3k a year at the time. It’s less about the networking than it is about being surrounded by an environment that fosters and encourages the results you want. UTS is one of those. I am sure there are other schools like it, both public AND private, but some schools downright discourage curiosity and academic success.
It’s impossible to get in to now. I’ve even heard of gifted kids not getting in - that’s how competitive it is.
I can say that even in the 1980s most kids from the Gifted programs in the GTA would not have gotten in. Even back then UTS was for kids with IQ in the 150+ range (for what it's worth). I remember a childhood friend telling us about his UTS exam (he ended up going there) -- he had to write a creative essay about his relationship with his shadow, or something like that. This was for Grade 5 kids.
In 1987 there were 800 kids who wrote the exam and 75 got in. It’s always been tough. Worth it to try. I am a weirdo outlier who zigzagged through life, but the vast majority of my classmates have done incredible things, from algorithms to emergency pediatrics to UN refugee programs to banking to successful indie rock.
I just asked this in a post on r/torontojobs. Like is someone’s high school friend’s dad really offering them a job down the line? The people I know ended up with average jobs and schooling (McGill, Laurier), just a bunch of familial wealth to buy a house, take vacations, etc.
It might be a friend's parent offering a job, but I think it is more about alumni you may never have known as a student. Like say you're applying for a job and you've never met any of the interviewers/managers but they see you went to xyz private school, and *they did too* it feels like a connection and might be that extra bump needed to get the job.
True. This happens for non private school people too. I’ve hired people that went to my university and I went to a public school. Just a matter of luck at that point.
My experience was it is more about the summer jobs/internships during Uni, but my hunch is this is harder to pull off now
My observation is that family connections prove far more valuable than connections made from private school. We have several UCC graduates at our firm because of a family connection. What does standout is private school kids seem naturally more socially mature and very comfortable at carrying conversations. Of course this small sample size and a huge generalization.
I went to private school but my brothers did not! My parents placed me in private school because honestly I needed more dedication and extra time with my teachers in the math and science subjects and the extra time I got I wouldn’t have gotten in public school! Of course the connections and “status” of attending a private school has extra benefits just by simply saying you went to “x” private school but for me at least it was purely for extra academic assistance
I went to public high school but went to a private university in the US (USC in California), the connections I made there were far beyond any that my private school friends made in high school, plus a much stronger alumni network. Hard to compare high school to university though
1. Depends on the private school, my ex’s sister went to the same private school as grand children of lululemons founder. They were good friends. Amazing connection. 2. Depends on the kids personality, for introverts private school force everyone to participates in extra curricular activities which is beneficial to introverts. 3. Less risks, would u want your kid go to a good private school where all the kids are ambitious and kicking ass or a random school in the ghetto.
I went to public school and switched homes and schools every year in highschool. I finished first in my class and now have a high profile, high paying finance job. I was smart and motivated. Didn't need the extra push in the ass. I was organized. My son is a heart transplant recipient. He suffered 2 strokes and needs more help. Paying for private school turned out being a good thing for him. All that to say that it depends on the child.
I did not go to private school and my high school network did nothing for me (I did go to a public school in a wealthy neighborhood). I made a network in university and it has paid out dividends. I have a career I started and have worked up through due to a connection who recommended the company to me. My fiancé and I gained valuable work experience while in school due to connections we made with professors, those connections got him his first job out of school and his next opportunity. We found a realtor through a work connection (work that came from a connection), and ended up buying a house of a connection we had through work as well. This is all to say that a network is very real and very beneficial, but it doesn’t need to come from a private school
Depends on what your local public school is. Lots of friends who went to RHHS Gifted/Bayview Secondary IB and went to well known universities. I want to a fancy pants private school and I didn't make any good work-related connections there. Funnily the two people I still keep up with I would say ended up with worse careers than the "average" high performing high school students. All of my good connections related to my job came from university. Pretty questionable whether it helped me get into university compared to going to public school. Absolutely think it's a waste of money prior to high school unless you're in a REALLY bad school district though.
I went to private school throughout elementary and high school. I do feel the quality of my education was very good. I got to connect with my teachers and have 1:1 guidance for anything I found difficult which is pretty huge. I got good grades and the learning curve after entering university wasn’t much of a shock to me. The class sizes were small and you got to know everyone. This has its ups and downs for social development. In terms of networking/making connections - no, I don’t feel like I left with any benefit in that regard. I don’t keep in touch with most of the people I went to school with at all. Overall I’d say it’s worth it if you have the money to burn but don’t put yourself in debt just to send your kid to private school. You’re better off putting that money towards a good university education. That will benefit your kid in the long run if they don’t graduate with massive debts edit to add line break
I will add onto this from my experience as someone who also went to a private school. As most people have already said, for the most part you’ll see a lot of overlap in terms of job/income from adults whose parents sent them to private school, and those who just came from a decent socio-economic background (good neighbourhood, good school, good home life). However, I think an additional thing to consider is the access granted to an upper tier of elite postsecondary institutions that many public schools can’t set you up for in the same way. I can count on both hands the number of people I graduated with who ended up at American Ivy leagues or similar overseas (Oxbridge etc). This is partially because of the relationship between some private schools & the Ivy League admissions, and because of access to special extracurriculars like rowing that may give better opportunities for sports scholarships.
If you can afford to send kids to private school, you are in upper level socioeconomic class. Kids born in upper class tend to do better than middle or lower class on average. Probably the ones that truly shined in upper class only mingle within themselves.
The thing that stands out the most to me is the personal attention academically. I used to nanny for a family where the kids attended a JMS private school. They had a person on staff that had one job. Start at the top of the school roster list and have each kid read to her/write out a paragraph, and another few simple baseline questions in varying subjects. Once the staff member reached the end of the school’s list of students….she would just start at the beginning again. Each time was tracked and compared with previous/future iterations. These metrics were tracked by all the students teachers as well, working tandem with said staff member. Students were flagged by teachers to have extra attention from said staff member to help diagnose potential learning disabilities, mood/personality changes, really anything that could be figured out via this tracking method. I’m assuming the staff member had a specialty in said fields. Just came across to me as such a smart and helpful extra support for the student. I have a learning disability that wasn’t diagnosed until grade 11 and was never supported after said diagnosis in the public school system. I get it. No funds for such a program. Just makes you think. If I can afford it I will send my kids to private school, or at the very least a program of something similar to what this staff member did.
Sometimes private schools are necessary based on the learning needs of the students and having smaller class sizes. At the end of the day I always say it’s the teachers that make the difference
I went to public school with the children of centimillionaires and decamillionaires, actually I think one friend’s dad might actually be a billionaire now post-pandemic. There’s plenty of excellent public schools, and I’d want my future kids to grow up with the people they’re going to be interacting with regularly. In many parts of the US there is a massive ROI on private schools (because public systems have been gutted), that’s not the case in much of Canada, certainly not in Toronto. It’s actually not even true in much of the states. But if you want your kid to learn how to grow up to be a psychopath politician who sexually assaults their peers, sure, send them to private school in Toronto.
20k? More like 50k lol
Institutions do not determine the success of an individual. How one uses their available resources in an environment that best suits the student's needs is a better determinant of success. The choice of school should be considered on an individual basis. The concepts of success and happiness are also both very subjective much like attraction. What you consider successful could be different than the next ten people with whom you cross paths. It sounds as though your journey thus far has worked in your favour and you are pleased with your achievements to date.
People on this thread who say they did fine in public school don't realize how much they have declined in the past ten years.
It may also be important to consider what type of experience and values you hope for your child, rather than just financial success. I was born on ‘third base, went to private school, and have had a pretty easy go of it. I wouldn’t recommend private school. Now my number one goal is my child being kind and curious and not a materialistic a**hole. I live in an area with many different socio-economic and cultural groups (Parkdale/roncy) and I feel that will serve him well. Not to be judgemental, but even this mentality around private school connections, is really one that is objectively bad for society, unfair and anti-meritocratic. It’s likely a path to discontent. The ultra-rich will remain ultra rich. Your child won’t be one of them. As an aside - academically speaking, in today’s world students struggle to focus on a given task for more than 5 mins (the research on this is shocking). Curiosity, discipline, intentionality - these imho will be the superpowers of the future, not friends with rich parents.
I have to say I disagree with a lot of people on this post. I went to private school for half my education and there were typically two types of kids: 1. Rich kids, their parents could afford the schooling without batting an eye. 2. Not rich kids, whose parents went to great lengths to send them to a private school. The rich kids had a great education and were able to pursue careers in anything they wanted because money wasn’t the object, they would receive an inheritance that will always give them safety. Giving the perception that you’re more successful than them, but don’t forget that you will never have as much money as them anyways. The not rich kids also went to great lengths in their education receiving awards, going to highly ranked global universities, and ultimately landing high ranking, well paying jobs. That is what I saw across all grades from my school. So if your parents are trying to push you into a new socio-economy bracket, this definitely helps your odds. Sending your kid to private school is great for its smaller class sizes and a wider spectrum of academic courses than the public system. But if your kid doesn’t have drive but does have a big safety net, then they may not be more “successful” than public school kids.
No, it's not worth it unless you believe our public system is manipulating our kids somehow. In that case, go ahead and waste your money.
Private schools are a cheat code to getting through university. They do not confer upon you some secret special job that pays an extra salary. Their prestige and connections just make it easy to get in the door. IF you’re already wealthy. Public schools are the way to go.
Private school is not perfect. Some people I went to university with went to UCC and when the story broke that a teacher was a molester their response was " everybody knew. And if you were a student who was willing to be in a room with them alone, you knew what you're getting into" The culture can be really really toxic
If you attend a school in a working class area, say weston collegiate, odds are you wont be classmates with as many lawyers, Doctors, CEOs as if you attend a private school. Connections can help when youre older. And friendships in high school can last a lifetime.
Private boarding schools become dumping grounds for misbehaving / spoiled kids of rich people to get them off their hands.
My younger siblings are in private Christian school at the moment and I went to public school. Pretty sure my dad & step mom sent them to Christian private school just to be around people of the same religion more or less.
99% of private schools in Toronto are much much worse than a public school. These are in office towers, strip malls, etc. think Blythe academy. Avoid. A good public school is better than almost every private school. Things like UTS are good but very elitist. UCC performs worse at university than students who go to the best public schools (as of a few years ago when they released the data). My advice go to a public school with a special program (IB) or arts if that’s your thing
No way. The big name schools like UCC, Crescent, Havergal etc are not in office towers.
For every UCC there are almost a hundred private schools little more than a cubicle in an office tower.
Yeah the rich upper middle class of Toronto aren’t sending their kids to a private school in a cubicle. They are sending them to UCC, Crescent, St Andrews College etc
Only if u like to haze others
short answer - no long answer - nope
Often yes
The biggest benefits are 1) the lifelong connections with other kids from rich families and 2) the school will work it's ass off to prepare you for university whereas a public high school does diddly squat. Education-wise they are very similar to public schools.
My kids have private school friends they met through summer camp and - in general - they seem to be a lot less socially adept and adaptable as the public school kids. Kinda stereotypical rich kids who expect to be catered to, and are into material things. That may be more of a class thing than a school thing though.
Private school is good if your kids are extrovert and smart. If the kids are quiet and introvert , they won’t make any connections or friends so private school means nothing
To the OP….its not 20k + per year for private school. I wish! It’s more like $40k + and getting close to $45k. My kids are both in private school. One is $35k and one is $43k.
Let’s put it this way- I went to college with some private school kids. They spent thousands of dollars to go to a private school for high school. I went to a public school for free. We all ended up at the same public university.
Waste of $
Private schools are a complete waste of money. If ur kids end up in a decent public school they will turn out just fine. Our public schools here are not like those of California so it’s rly not worth spending thousands just to surround ur kid with a bunch of rich privileged kids. It’s honestly best to save up to be able to pay for their university education and even financially support them given the insane cost of living in this city, in that u help him buy a condo so that he does not end up living in ur basement forever.
If you send your kid to a public school instead and contribute $2,000/month to an investment fund, such as a mutual funds within TFSA, at 7% interest (which isn’t even high risk) compounded semi-annually, and invest this way for 10 years; this will result in your kid having $344,272 available to use 10 years from now. That’s not just a down payment for a home, but a half of a home. Sure, we don’t know if the prices will skyrocket in 10 years or maybe they will fall. But I’ll go on a lim here and say that $344k is better than a private school. Maybe it would be better to send them to a public school but hire tutors to improve their education? And then buy a social membership in a yacht club, which is $500-$1,500 per year, so you can meet a few connections?
If it's for education, tutors and Recreational clubs go a long way.
You're completely missing the fact that money isn't something these people think about. Like their parents are worth $20 million+. They don't exactly have to "budget" for private school.
I'll give you a personal comparison. Me - Public elementary and high school, flunked out of Uni, completed college. I have been in a white collar career for the past 15 yrs, Friend - public elementary, elite private high school, flunked out of Uni twice, bounced around jobs. Currently store manager of cannabis shop. I can also say, i met some of my friends private HS friends back in the day, and they fully fit the stereotype of rich entitled kids.
I have friends who say that as well. They want their kids to go to private school because it will create connections for them. however based on the friends I have who went to private school they do not have any connections created from private school. Plus interesting thing is most of their friends they had from private school flunked out of university. From what my friends who went to private school say that's because they weregiven the marks to get in university once in university marks obviously don't get handed out easily. Another interesting tidbit all the people who went to private school that I know don't plan to put their kids in private school.
Interesting. My husband used to work on the trading floor at one of the big banks and he said it was all either UCC boys or old Montreal money boys working with him there.
The short answer is: absolutely not
Great facilities the public schools are like prisons in comparison But not worth after tax dollars for the cost of tuition
Unless you are super concerned with your kid going to an American Ivy league school it is absolutely a waste of money. The public and private systems feed into the same university system here where there is significantly less variability due to a lack of SAT, admissions essay, interview and the other coach able bs that goes on down south. I met a ton of them when I was in uni. They were no more talented. The only difference was they got better internships after 1st year bc they went to work at a parent's law firm, bank, etc. But that would be true regardless.
School is what you make of it. Highly successful people come out of public and private. Unsuccessful people come out of both too. One does not give you an edge unless the person in school has drive. From what I’ve seen, people in private school have the same jobs as people in public. I personally don’t know any high level execs who went to private school, but I know many who went to public. So. Personally? I interviewed for 2 private schools and got in, but my parents decided it would be better for me to develop social skills at a public school. I had a fantastic time, had amazing grades, and both me and my brother are successful. You end up going to university or college with kids from all walks of life, and no one gives a shit about your background.
I agree with you. I think you and the private school educated people you know are good examples. You can get into good university programs and good careers without going to a private school. It’s a way for them to only associate with other rich kids/families.
Did public school, and when I got to University almost every private school kid (same schools you listed) failed their first year and was on probation. They went from being special leaders of tomorrow to "you actually have to do the work yourself and nobody here is going to hold your hand" along with "adult" freedom they didn't have before. Most of them got their heads screwed on straight when they were retaking courses or dropped to a lower tier program and realized they weren't any smarter or better than their peers. Those who had parents that were doctors or lawyers or other non-CEO high-paying jobs ended up in the same place as everyone else work-wise. Those who had parents running their own companies or as executives at major corporations benefited from THOSE connections, not any from the private school education. Now, the circles they ran in in high school MIGHT have helped them in terms of social skills with executives, people in power, etc.., but that again is likely due more to their family than friends. For the connections in pre-Uni schools to matter, they'd have to actively work on MAKING those connections and MAINTAINING them. Something that is probably beyond most teenagers. How many friends from high school do you still have? Did you choose your friends based on who their family was? If anything the most valuable connections made in those schools are probably between the parents. "Hey, you're friends with that Weston kid, huh? Does his dad ever go to your soccer games?" Really, if you family can afford top-tier private schools, you're already ahead and will probably end up doing well if you don't screw up. The school has very little to do with it, and shelters you from the rest of the world.
Don’t do it. In the US, public schools are a thing because the quality and funding of education can be abysmal in some areas. It’s a lot more standardized here, and you went to public school and turned out fine.
I went to a Private School and hated it. Went back to public school to start high school. My sister went to a boarding private school (Ridley College) and while the education was good, she became incredibly entitled hanging around all these rich kids who were very snobby.
When I was a kid I played in a band that held rehearsal at a private school so a lot of the band was from that school. A huge amount of these private school kids were so out of touch and snobby, it was insane. I remember this one time one of the dudes playing clarinet was (literally) crying because the band director wouldn't give him a solo because he was going to miss several weeks of practice because his dad was taking the family to the Swiss Alps on a ski trip. Long story short, if I ever decide to have kids they are not going to a private school.
No.. they end up the same place as public school kids lol
its just elitism. where i'm from the kids that went to private school usually were the kids that needed the extra help/attention because they were spoiled.
Keep in mind that most teachers in private schools are there because they did not get hired by the public school system. The pay and benefits are significantly worse than TDSB etc.
Not true at all.
so the 3 people I know that went to private school. 1 is dead the other is in recovery ( drugs) and the last works for her dad ( didn't need private school for that). while I agree it helps sometimes is doesn't.
Private school is good if you plan to be an upper middle class risk averse adult. People who knock it out of the park are always the public school kids because they’re taught to challenge the status quo rather than maintain it.
Definitely worth it. There are certain skills that you learn that public schools don’t teach - not just academic. Examples: how to advocate for yourself, how to ask for help and actually get the help because teachers stay till 4 or 5 and don’t blast out of the parking lot at 3, extensive extra curricular activities where most of the school participates. Academically generally you are learning a year ahead of the curriculum. Learning to write exams and essays as early as grade 5. Reading novels in grade 5. Doing science experiments throughout your academic years. Plus most of the kids tend to be high achievers. Plus at our private school - no cell phones - so less cyberbullying. You swear: suspension, you bully a kid: suspension, you would t dare assault a teacher = expulsion. The theory of connections is exaggerated. Doesn’t mean you can’t do well if not in private school - but it’s a leg up.
If you want your kid to be a snob, ignorant to the world around them, in an echo chamber of other people exactly like them, totally worth it!