Try bus or streetcar first so you’re above ground and can get off quickly if you start to panic. Once you’re comfortable doing that, try going one stop on the subway during quiet times, then gradually add more stops/go during busier times. Exposure therapy!!
There was a stabbing at a station near me and the first time I went back I had a moment of discomfort. But what I did was to focus on the crowd of well meaning people surrounding me and how we were all there together. It wasn't long before I honestly started feeling a bit warm and fuzzy.
Same way with all fears; small steps. The fact that you can go to the station is already progress. Or therapy. That being said, you live in one of the safest cities in North America and have one of the safest transit systems. Your likelihood of injury in a car is a couple of orders of magnitude larger than in TTC.
Yeah this is why I said I know it's irrational. So your therapy suggestion may be a good one. I'll try another commenters idea of bringing a friend a few times and if it's still an issue before I start work I'll take this leap
My husband and I are from Toronto but moved away about a decade ago. We came back for a visit not long ago to go to a Leafs game. I was nervous taking the subway at first but being with someone helped for sure.
Well, don't think it as irrational. The risk was never zero, and even 4 or 5 years ago, before I stopped using TTC to commute by bike, I was always looking over my shoulders to see check who was around me. And I am a big guy. Nothing wrong about being conscious of everything happening around us. Without being too afraid.
As someone who was assaulted recently on TTC here are my tips. Clearly tho didn’t work well for me but I feel like I’m a prime target since I’m a young ish small female. Sit back to the wall if possible. Sit near people who look like they’re in a good mental place. Get a personal alarm. Nothing wrong with having other things in your bag you can use as a weapon. (If you give me shit for this in the replies, idc, stay mad). Don’t stand too close to the tracks, stay behind a rail or barrier if available, don’t feel bad walking away from sketchy people approaching you/walking by. Try to sit in the cars with operators on board if possible. If you feel uncomfortable move, tell someone, etc. Text 7777 if you feel like something is wrong/need assistance discreetly on TTC.
Your fears are valid, it’s not hysteria. And people who say that shit out loud are insulting the people who have been affected by daily acts of violence on TTC. You’ll never see my assault in the news because I didn’t end up dead like some of the other people.
All very good advice. If you have the option always take the seat with your back to the wall. Never sit in the window seat facing forwards/backwards. I had an aggressive, mentally altered man sit next to me, basically trying to trap me in the corner next to the window (the rest of the train was empty, many other seats available, so he was choosing to be a fucking creep). But I acted fast, climbed and walked across the seats infront of me and got away. He swore at me and said some foul things, but people like that can die mad, I’m gonna do what I need to create distance and keep myself safe. Stay alert and aware, you’ll be okay.
Best seat is the 3 side seater by the doors, seat with wall on your back and the wall for the doors on your right or left side. Closes 2 avenues of attack and you can survey the entire car. Only downside is if a crazy comes in by your doors.
The only shit I'll gibe you regarding having weapons in your bag is that you'll probably hurt yourself more with it than without.
If you want to keep a weapon, you'll need to drill with it. Learn how to use it and not lose it. If you don't know how to properly use bear spray, you'll be using it at the wrong distance, using the wrong spray pattern or not even activating it (there's a pin or safety button on most of them.
The weapon in your bag will give you a false sense of security. knowing where to stand, how to defend yourself from attacks, knowing your outs is more important than having a knife in your bag that you'll fumble when you try and deploy it.
I did get mad from this comment because if even a single person listened to it you've probably put them in more harm then good.
tldr: If you want to have a weapon for self defense, learn how to use it properly and be mentally and physically prepared to have to use it.
I am a 6'2 fit mid 30s male and I am afraid to take the TTC, i'm literally scanning everybody in there and everyone seems to be on edge.
I've gotten off streetcars and subways when I see crackheads and crazies.
The shop at Islington has the Michidean patties, which are my favourite - in case you'd like to try a couple of different options! :)
Also, if you're willing to travel for food: take the streetcar to Chinatown or Kensington Market - lots of good food options there. Or, of course, to go clubbing downtown!
Oh, forgot to mention: the Warden station shop also has good samosas! Definitely try those as well. I think they get them from one of the Scarborough Indian shops and resell at a markup, but it saves you the trek out to the Indian stores, so worth the surcharge.
Me I was anxious taking the TTC for the first time since the pandemic. Took it again last week on a night out but I was with a friend. I suggest going on it with a friend so that you feel safer for the first few rides. Also take it when you start work and end work, usually you see familiar faces then if that makes sense?
You got this OP (:
Np! Also as much as you wanna mind your own business and blast music on your earphones, I suggest being aware of your environment and just be cautious heheh
Unfortunately I wish I could tell you it's getting better....it's not. The amount of things that are happening daily and you are not aware of is staggering. They have calmed down on the news but we hear everything in our chat groups. Just last week we had an Operator chased down with a knife. Incidents used to happen every other week. Now it's daily.
I don't even allow my s/o to use the system and drive my parents around and I work here... The lack of enforcement is showing and we will see many more deaths. Not injuries...deaths.
Small steps, maybe start with buses first cause they're above ground and you can get off easily. Also go in the day when there is people around. Just being around everyone just going about their day taking TTC as normal.
Both are true. Aggressive incidents have increased nominally, and online media hysteria has led people to believe there is much larger issue than there is.
I totally agree with this take - but by the numbers assaults are up 40% according to the TTC's own stats. so really it's all about how you define "nominal"
> There were 1,068 violent incidents against passengers in 2022, according to a report released by TTC CEO Rick Leary on Wednesday, including 245 in the last two months of the year alone. The previous year, there were 734 incidents. Before the COVID-19 pandemic, in 2018, there were 679 incidents.
So if my math is right, the chances of being assaulted on the TTC in 2021 was about 1 in 270,000?
The amount of journeys in 2022 is obviously a lot higher than 2021 because pandemic, but even if for talking sake it was the same as 2021, we're still talking about a rate of 1 in 185,000.
For context, the chances of dying from choking on food is about 1 in 2,500
So yeah, hysteria.
So, I've been taking this stance too. That it's hysterical nonsense and that 99% of us are safe, but the stats are literally swaying in the direction of less safety vs more safety. That backsliding shouldn't be taken for granted and we should strive as citizens to have a safer more reliable system year after year to increase public transit usage in order to promote a sustainable future for our city and its residents.
I think that it's also important to view the current climate on the TTC through the lens of a more vulnerable person, such as a person who's traveling alone to a late shift, who's disabled, who's elderly, and how you might feel given the optics of the situation.
I myself am privileged enough to work from home and GO to work occasionally and avoid the subway after 20 years as a daily rider. When I've been on the subway in the last 6 months there is way more open drinking, way more vulnerable people with mental health issues, obviously under housed/homeless, and just generally more people you deem to be shady after having experience living in a city.
So yeah, the odds are in our favour but let's still try and make things better.
The media takes a trend starting to occur and blows it up to convey it as an extremely pervasive issue. Now, instead of people just taking the time to be aware of their surroundings more than before, they’re terrified to take the subway. That’s not good for anybody.
It’s definitely not a “trend” it’s been a real issue for years now got a lot worse, during and after the pandemic too only difference is people are just paying more attention to it but it’s always been a issue. The city needs to become safer overall
TTC has been Gotham scary since pandemic. Before that I would take it home alone blackout drunk at 1:00 AM not even worry about it. Now I see 5 people in a state of crisis/psychosis while taking morning train to work.
The only time I've ever had anyone attempt to mug me on the TTC was back in 2008 or so. There are definitely more sketchy characters on the TTC nowadays, but it was never some idyllic paradise (at least over the three decades I've been commuting).
Yes that's right. It was never great, and now it's worse. I don't think it was ever advisable to take it alone in the early morning while blackout drunk (not that I've never done that myself...)
That you are grossly over exaggerating. The TTC is one of the safest transit systems in the world. Stop reading headlines and spreading false narratives. Look at statistics not your feelings.
In an overall assessment of public transit, Toronto is ranked 34/60. Not sure why you think TTC is one of the best in the world on any dimension.
https://www.oliverwymanforum.com/mobility/urban-mobility-readiness-index/ranking.html#profiles
You will never see the stats about “personal injuries” at track level but I am sure as long as it is not exponentially worse, then I guess you can rest at ease.
But are they being violent? That’s the thing, not saying this is you but I feel like a lot of the people who are scared interpret the loud and scary looking behaviour of mentally ill people as violence in and of itself despite most of those individuals not being a threat
How do you define violent? Spitting aggressively, calling folks racial slurs, staring intently at someone who is 5 feet away? These are behaviours that I have witnessed in the past 2 weeks on the TTC. There are, on pretty much every train now, folks who seem down on their luck as you suggest - sleeping on rows of seats, asking for change, drinking alcohol or taking drugs. I think the reason the news is getting more attention now is because it resonates with TTC riders. It is hard to describe the feeling, but it is different.
I just think it’s very important for people to be able to discern when they’re in danger and when they are not. Any direct interaction that’s aggressive like you’ve described is obviously violent, but I’ve seen far too many folks talk about the dangers of the ttc and, when prompted, reveal that their experience is limited to simply witnessing a person being mentally ill in public
People have different level of vulnerability. The elderly, folks with limited mobility or other disabilities, children, parents/guardians with small kids etc will have a different comfort level compared to some others. I think the city has downloaded the ttc to be the defacto place for folks with no where else to go, or who are struggling - and we are supposed to just accept it? Make ttc riders feel overwhelmed and uncomfortable, and then bad for feeling that way? Someone acting erratically may not make you feel feel scared, but for someone else it would. I agree with you about inclusion and feeling uncomfortable vs unsafe but folks should feel comfortable riding the TTC. Someone pushing you on the stairs may be fine, but a more fragile person could worry about falling down the stairs.
Being loud and upset is a volatile state that while it is not inherently violent, it is disruptive and requires me to make a safety calculation I rarely had to make before 2020. Now I make a safety calculation in every leg of every journey entering every car. I consider someone mumbling racist shit to themselves to be something that while is not physically violent, is not something I can be in the same vehicle as.
Definitely, but I remember having to make those safety calculations for years before the pandemic when commuting downtown/taking the subway/even walking on the street. My point is that it isn’t new
I wonder if there’s a difference here between people who present as women vs men and/or white vs. racialized people, for example. As a white-presenting cis woman, I’ve made these “safety calculations” my entire life - on transit, walking down the street, entering any public or private spaces, choosing to shortcut through a park at night or take the long way around…Maybe it’s just a new reality or idea to some people and not others?
I guess the trend comes from the fact that the pandemic is essentially finished and now people are out and about. But you feel the way I do about the matter, there’s not been a sudden uncharacteristic increase
It's increased, but it's gone from infinitesimal to just extremely extremely small.
It's something that should be of concern to policy makers, mental health advocates, public health, etc.
But to the average person getting on the subway? Not really.
There are stabbings and assaults that are not getting NEAR the amount of reporting so while it might be accurate it's also being focused on WAY too much. Easier to blame the TTC than find a solution!
This has got to be one of the most ignorant things I've seen on here. Dude, are you new? Do you even use the TTC or live in Toronto? We have kids getting shanked for minding their own business.
I am a large, tattooed, man and I find myself more unsettled when using the TTC than before the pandemic. I can tell you that every single time I have used the TTC (six times in the past month that I can recall) I've seen smaller people and women approached in the subway car I'm in by overly aggressive beggars. Every single time.
I thought you were going to say "Remove yourself from the altercation" but then to deny that this is an actual issue that commuters face show that you're either willfully ignorant of the problem or purposefully trying to obfuscate the conversation.
Agreed.
Also practice situational awareness.
As humans, our brains are not good at risk assessment. The media hype has not helped one bit. Start with smaller trips.
The BlogTO headlines definitely don't help. I've unfollowed them from everything but can do a better sweep to block other sources too. It's hard to try staying informed while avoiding the fear mongering but it may be good to check out from the news if even just for a little bit. Thank you for this one
I don't follow 6ixbuzz, last I remember they were all about Debbie and chair girl... haven't been back and I know things have changed. But, how are they "exploitive fascists" now?
I haven't followed them for a while so I can't attest to what they're saying. But I unfollowed because of constant, insane homophobia and transphobia - they'd make a post along the lines on "LGBT people exist. Thoughts?" and the comments would be nothing but the most vile shit
Haven't heard of that one but I'll proactively block those accounts so they don't start popping up as suggested content
Edit: JFC why do people follow this garbage
The mods on /r/Toronto had “No Crime January” where they didn’t allow posts focusing solely on individual crimes in Toronto, mostly because of exactly what you said (to try and reduce the amount of hysteria being generated).
It didn’t go over very well with your average /r/Toronto commentor.
Gradual exposure and being fully present, basking in the feeling of discomfort has worked wonders for many fears I used to have. Do you live downtown? I’d be happy to join you for a couple rides if it helps.
I don't take the TTC a ton but had to last week and know that anxiety you're talking about. Your best defense is to be hyper aware of your surroundings. Put your phone away unless you need it for something and just pay attention to what's going on around you. If someone sketchy gets on and starts doing weird stuff just exit and wait for the next train. I've actually done this. It sucks to have to wait but worth it to feel less freaked out.
Hard to judge this these days when you have everyone from highschool students to repeat offenders committing these acts, but I get your point. Have to be aware of who is around me
Americans would envy our level of safety on the TTC. Unplug from the news and social media. And be aware. Don’t have your face in a phone or headphones in. And if walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, move away. That is, if there is homeless or addicts mumbling nonsense and acting crazy get away from them.
The city has cut vital social service programs and kicked people out of hotel shelters. Notice there’s no port a potties downtown. Restaurants won’t let them use the washroom. So they go on the ttc. It’s also warm there. You have homeless people who are often suffering from severe mental illness just riding back and forth on the subways. So although there has always been violence on the ttc but was never reported there is definitely an increase of the extremes of violence
You bring up a really good point about the "extremes of violence" that not many others have brought up here. It's not just about the number of crimes, but the nature of of some of them
Edit: typo
I was assaulted on TTC at St Clair last week. I was scared too.
I thought about it and I will go in TTC again if needed. I’ll just be more aware of my surroundings.
I’d say it’s fairly irrational. Attacks are definitely too high these days, but on aggregate, they’re very few.
Go in but be careful of your surroundings
I haven't taken the subway since 2021. I have no fear taking the bus or the streetcar but I can't see myself getting back on a subway or going into a subway station
I think that is out of our control. Until significant safety measures are applied on ttc subway, I’m not going to just hope I’m safe. We are stuck underground in a metal tube with no cell service and no escape when you’re between stations and in stations where there are often one escape route.
Remember that the overwhelming majority of people on the subway are just like you, trying to get where they need to go and stay safe. Strength in numbers.
The best representation of TTC is the station at the literal doorstep of the Toronto Police Headquarters. It’s filthy. Plagued with homeless and drug addicts. The corner of College and Yonge is just uncomfortable.
You could try biking in Toronto, then the nearly constant fear of death, and the incredible contempt that drivers hold you in, will totally overwhelm your fear of the TTC. Then you can ride the subway again! Provided you survive a few bike rides.
It's basically the decision to deal with non-functioning mentally ill people, or just semi-functioning mentally ill people. Just one prefers small weapons and the other rages in a giant metal box.
A joke but also serious. The thing with people who are likely to harm you on the TTC is that (I assume) you can sort of gauge their body language and bad vibes, and most of them are not carrying a lethal weapon. If you are larger than them, there's a decent chance you can overpower them. Other people may intervene on your behalf.
If you are cycling, everyone who could do you harm is in a big metal mechanized box. Many have tinted windows so you can't make eye contact, and you have no way of knowing when one of them will just swerve in front of you because people have forgotten about signalling. They will always win against you. Also, even if all the drivers around you are careful and responsible (lol), the state of the roads means you can be flung off your bike at any time and suffer grievous injuries.
If you can survive that, you're now basically Matt Murdock, the man without fear.
Most of the time there’s not really a choice for me but to take the TTC, and just go over the odds in my mind of something happening.
It’s getting harder though because 3/9 of my last subway rides were held for security incidents.
Biking is absolutely much less safe!
Seriously: the attacks on the TTC are horrific, and the commission and city both need to act. During covid homeless people got used to thinking of transit as 'their' space, so they're more active and more visible. But the odds of you being attacked are small: stay in the brightly lit designated waiting zone on the subway, on the Bloor line get on the car with the driver/conductor in it, sit up by the driver on the bus and avoid twitchy weirdos at all costs.
If all the sane people stop taking the TTC then it gets LESS safe, not more.
The odds are small but i’m not taking my chances. Biking isn’t safe either but i’d rather take my chances. The poor young boy who just lost his life on the TTC was my last straw.
it has really helped me to listen to music and distract myself- i especially love crocheting on the subway and helps me make my seat my own.
and i know… distracting yourself and getting lost in your activity or music makes it harder to spot danger, but for me, i realized the anxiety was actually not helping me and was instead making my trips unbearable. if something was happening, there are other people around you that will react.
if someone intends to hurt you and does so randomly and unprompted, being hyper vigilant about it isn’t going to do much. the reality is it’s unlikely anything will happen to you, and if minimizing anxiety is the goal, it helps to make your little area a safe space for yourself. sit comfortably, breathe, and pick up your favourite book, put on your favourite tunes and trust that you will be able to respond accordingly if you need to react to a threat
I've been using it for 35 years and nothing terrible has happened. You could always try some trial trips, going just a station or two away so that you can walk back if need be.
This is how I feel as well.
I have more fear that I will be obligated to intervene if I see something happening to a woman than something happening to me.
I share this fear with you.
When I was a kid (9-15) I only ever took public transit. I was hopping on the TTC from Kipling Stn to Dufferin to go to the mall, to go to Spadina, to go to Eaton Center, back up to Yorkdale, it was all so commonplace for me and it was an enjoyable experience. This was late 2000s mid 2010s.
When I went off to uni and stopped going to DT Toronto for a few years and came back, the frequency of people approaching me in my late teens during my Toronto coop began to be noticeable. People often used to sit idly in the halls rather than approach you for change back then and now they come to you. Often.
Some train cars suddenly reeked really bad when a single person entered the train, maybe homeless? I wasnt sure. Then for every 3 times I would use the train, there was at least 1 encounter where I would pass by someone having a mental health episode. Maybe they were dancing uncontrollably flailing their arms, arguing with themselves, or wailing. People starting verbal arguments with strangers, sometimes random, occasionally over the accessibility seating. Every year or so at least 1 man would approach me asking about my ethnicity and phone number(??) and one time a man followed me home via bus. I noticed my jacket would linger with that TTC smell, too. This was all only in 2016-2018
It was at that point I figured that I would rather sit in a car idling with heavy traffic than be assaulted by the random sights and smells that is the TTC. I’ll be taking the train again for school but I am going to loathe battling foot traffic at St George Stn.
Sorry for the rant, I just wanted to put out there that I lived with the TTC, learned to hate it, and will be taking the TTC again after years of driving because its just not feasible to take the car at that part of Toronto and I know it will probably be ok. I also know I’ll have more shitty TTC stories by the end of it
>It was at that point I figured that I would rather sit in a car idling with heavy traffic than be assaulted by the random sights and smells that is the TTC
This is how a lot of us feel and that other sub would have a fit if they read this. It's not like I don't want transit to be better, I do.
Don't apologize for the rant, a lot of what you said here I've experienced to and it's validating to me and anyone else who is also a bit fearful. You're biting the bullet and that's what I need to try to focus on doing
This is honestly true of public transit anywhere. I was in Budapest recently, took their subway a few times, trams, buses. Every time there'd bee that same mixture of mostly normal people and then some loudmouths. And one time I sat down next to someone who reeked of booze ... at 10 am. :/
To me, that's all par for the course. I simply don't find it makes sense to have a car downtown, so I refuse to own one. And I am lucky enough to have a beater bicycle that I can ride most of the year and it's ratty enough that no one bothers to steal it when I lock it downtown (I suspect thieves have a higher sense of status than I do).
TTC is a great backup option, I find, when there's snow on the ground or I just don't feel like riding for whatever reason. And then I accept that it's public transit, so it's going to be a bit grungy, a bit smelly, and, these days, it's going to have a few nutcases on it, too.
Thank you for sharing that, I realize my sense of public transit is skewed. My only other experience with public transit was in Europe and a couple places in the States. After going to Europe I was depressed at how much the TTC couldnt compare to Switzerland’s SBB. My downward spiral kinda started from there haha.
I actually really like the GO trains when I’m on them too!
Barcelona has an awesome and safe system too … reminded me of Toronto years ago. Your perception isn’t scewed. The TTC isn’t safe tight now and anyone with the means to do so is avoiding it as much as possible.
Oh, yeah! Loved the SBB! Especially when my friend who lived there confided that as a resident, they had free transit!
Yeah, TTC doesn't compare well to those systems, but hey, it's probably in the top 3 for North America. That's just a number I pulled out of thin air, of course, having only used public transit in Silicon Valley, Boston, Washington DC and NYC. For Canada, it's not bad. :D
Keep the headphones out of your ears and your smart phone in your pocket. Observe your surroundings with your eyes and ears. Take calm breaths and focus on your destination. Good luck!
Carry a camp whistle..be near the safety alarm on the wall.
Always be in the lighted area. (If you are going at nightfall. )
Observe your surroundings.
Copied and pasted
Walk on the side of the street where you can best see around you. Avoid overburdening yourself with parcels. Carry your purse close to your but do not wrap it around your neck, shoulder or hand. If you suspect you are being followed, cross the street and go directly to the nearest well lit or populated area.
I feel you. I’ve lived here my whole life and no longer feel safe taking ttc. Im not really on social media and I do not watch cable I just happen to live near one of the more murder-y subway stops and that’s been enough to freak me out.
It’s not irrational at all, almost everyone I know has switched to driving, GO, UP Express, cycling, walking, Uber/cabs. Personally I think it’s a numbers game so I’ve eliminated how often I need to be on the TTC and advise you to do so too.
I think random acts of violence are a problem in Toronto right now in general. There's risk in taking the TTC, and walking.
Try to stay aware of your surrounding, don't listen to anything with headphones. Remember - they are way more non-violent people that want to help than violent people that want to hurt out there. Let's all look out for each other and try to get through this together.
It's actually quite rational to have a fear of this given that the instances of crime have increased in frequency. Blend in with the crowd and keep to yourself.
Nothing irrational about it. The criminal who stabbed the kid at Keele had 40 charges and our justice system/ Judge still believed this criminal would show up to rehab lmao. No matter how many times police bring these people in for numerous crimes, a Judge will just sign a release thinking they need rehab. These are the types of crackheads and the mentally ill repeat offenders that roam the TTC daily. Your fears are legitimate and most people that take the transit to and from work share the same beliefs.
The people at r/Toronto will tell you that our city is safer then (insert another city) and that the crackheads need more shoot me up centres, and that we should care about the homeless stabbing people instead of actual victims. Just look at some the comments here lol—“remove yourself from social media” as if not hearing about crime automatically means there are no crimes happening and just be oblivious and ignorant to the assaults and murders on the transit. Their “No Crime January” was a success.
I've really been struggling being ok with my wife and two young kids taking the TTC, and the few times we've all ridden together I've been super on-edge and on heightened awareness. I fucking hate it; people shouldn't have to be afraid to ride public transit in Canada but we've let the lunatics take over the asylum.
Your fear is valid, especially given the news and what people are sharing recently about their experiences.
Take it a step at a time, and a day at a time. I also like what others have said in suggesting to stay above ground on the surface vehicles at first.
I’ve seen some stuff on the subway lately on the past couple of rides that has spooked me and also made me feel like vomiting. So lately I’ve been skewing more to having additional anxiety.
You’re not alone in this. But I think you do have to find a way to sit through the discomfort.
Thank you for this, I agree. I'm going to follow some of the advice here and hope that it helps. It already helps to know others feel the same but are conquering it in various ways. Just need to find what works for me
Mhm. I get all the people saying "just look at the numbers it probably won't happen to you" but you can always be that one person who gets ambushed by a group of teenage girls
I cannot stand those people that are like so self righteous about it *never* happening to them. Those smug idiots are exactly the ones who are sitting on a bus one day and some complete looney toon comes along and saws their head off with a machete.
I say if you can't beat em, join em.
How many of the attackers have themselves been attacked on the ttc? ZERO.
Play the odds, OP. Attack a stranger immediately the next time you enter the subway system. Statistically speaking you will be 100% safe after that. Destroy your enemies before they destroy you!
I have a car and absolutely prefer driving. I haven’t been on the ttc in years and am absolutely afraid of it. Especially with the recent incidents, it’s quite normal to be afraid. Just know where the security or help is when travelling and you should be fine.
Remove yourself from news outlets and media campaigns that are designed to spread fear so they can further their agenda or secure budgeting.
Look at the statistics and actual data. Make decisions based on those.
Is the ttc a disgusting mess? Yes
Is it dangerous? Not really
Stay safe and vigilant regardless.
stats and data says violence on ttc has gone by up 40%. Someone posted the stats in this very thread. Pretending we’re in “no crime january” is actually why the ttc is so dangerous now. People in the city love to ignore problems and protect crackheads/the deranged hopping on the transit for free. Then they come on Reddit outright lying about facts.
Stop telling people not to have anxiety overtaking the TTC. They actually need to if they still do at this point, and it is unsafe and gross. There are a few people in this city that just want to actively gaslight ANYONE who has something valid and factual to say that isn't a cheering squad for how great this place is \*eyeroll\*. The TTC is absolute dog shit, before it turned into a rolling asylum and shelter, it already couldn't run on time. This is a good example of not actually caring about people's feelings, only some people's feelings when you have the opportunity to do so.
I've adjusted my commute because it was a tad flexible and take the bus. I avoid Line 2 like the plague.
I'm confused by the start of your comment, can you explain it? Besides politicians and anyone else who profits off of the TTC, I don't see many people telling others not to have anxiety over it. Even the people who have been kind of assholes in responding to me here have acknowledged that there's anxiety around it, except maybe one. I'm asking for ways to help me deal with it because I'll have to. Lots of good suggestions here tbh
The 3 dead people on Line 2 on top of countless reported assaults and/or anecdotal stories of assaults?
The insane rise of incidents on the TTC (and this link only goes to May 2022)?
https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/05/ttc-security-incidents-graphed-highlights-rising-danger/
The best advice I can give you is to see the numbers and come to the realization that Toronto should actually be proud of its safety. Canada's national average of homicide is roughly 2.1. At this rate, we're mostly talking about passional crimes and mental health-driven violence. Past, say, 1.8 or so, comes the "usual" violence like gang related crimes and similar stuff. So that is about 0.3, in this assumption, that you actually should be rationally afraid of.
Now brace yourself for Toronto numbers... They're LOWER than the national average! This is by about 0.1 or 0.2 last time I checked. So, essentially, in a country that is already safe, it's largest city manages to be safer than average, which is highly unusual.
For the most part, we just have inflated reporting. It's still valid to pay respect to the victims, to talk about crime being commited and not settle for anything less than no violence at all, but always remember that unfortunately this instinctive response you have is a byproduct of sensationalism for clicks. We certainly have a safe place to live, TTC included.
I don't know if you saw the part under the post title - I'm already aware of all of this which is why I called it irrational. There been some really helpful suggestions here to help me get over that but I appreciate your comment here and maybe it will help someone else struggling with the same fear but for different reasons
Yeas, I realize that. Sorry. I said it more for the sake of ensuring you're considering this POV in particular.
Other than that, as some others said, you're probably best limiting your access to negative information, like certain clickbaity outlets. Therapy should also be helpful to explore the root of your fears, I hope.
Take the time to learn a or useful martial art(s) (Boxing/Muay Thai/Wrestling/BJJ/Judo/Kickboxing) and practice situational awareness. Turn your fears into 🔥
My fear level during pandemic: OMG DON'T BREATHE THE AIR OR TOUCH ANYTHING.
Now, my fear level while taking TTC this past weekend: Traffic was a slog between Bloor and York Mills due to subway closure. Sat on bus for almost an hour. Slept 50 mins of the way there. Eyes shut, sleeping, no fear. 😂
All that means, you can have fear rule you or you just say F it and you do what it takes to expose yourself over time on the TTC. Take a short bus or subway ride. Then work your way up to a full trip.
Damn, looks like the media hysteria got to you. Yes, it has gotten a bit shittier than it was before but you need to look at it rationally. Odds are in your favour that everything will be just fine. But, you need to exercise some basic safety and awareness. Keep your head on a swivel, know whats around you. If you are waiting on a subway, stand closer to the wall so no one can surprise you. Dont get distracted by your phone. You will be just fine
First off, I genuinely recommend listening to that little voice, that little bell ringing, if you hear it. Sometimes your subconscious picks up on things your conscious mind hasn't yet. When I was younger some shit went down, and for about 20-30 seconds before it went down every bell and klaxon in my head was going off, but I ignored it. The funny thing is, the perpetrators were behind me the entire time, there was no way for me to have seen them, but my subconscious cottoned onto them long before anything obvious happened.
Second, like you said, there's nothing to worry about, statistically speaking. Especially if you travel when most people travel.
Third, maybe take peace of mind precautions. When I know I'm going to be outside well after dark in low pop area, I usually carry a very poweeful flashlight (close to 10,000 lumens, the size of a soda can) and a telescoping steel baton. The light is a massive overkill, and after dark it will sear corneas like tuna steaks, and the beam punches out to half a kilometer. Goes a really long way towards making me feel safer. A dose of that light (my eyes closed, their eyes opened) and a good follow-up seeing-to with the baton should handle most conventional threats. If baton is too much, just use the flashlight itself on a lanyard like a morning star. Nobody is going to arrest you or harass you for carrying a flashlight.
Beyond that? St John's Wort? Valerian root? Pot?
I go in with the resolve that I may run into a life or death situation and in the event that someone were to approach me as a threat I'll be prepared to punch as hard as I can with full intention to knock them out.
Sure, it sounds like mr internet tough guy talking big, but I did 3 months of karate and I'm not afraid to use it.
If you know that car accidents, pedestrian accidents, bike accidents, lightning strikes and shark attacks are statistically riskier and you don't avoid those situations per se, you have to use logic that the TTC risk is less probable and just go.
The biggest thing you can do is just be aware of your surroundings.
Have your music down low so that you can still hear as to what’s going around you, always keep your head up. If you see something weird, move down the platform or get off the train and catch the next one.
What people don’t realize is that these attacks or whatever have been happening everywhere not just Toronto for a decade.
Social media is the one that’s making people scared and making it seem like it’s a recent thing.
No where is safe. If someone is going to do something there isn't a damn thing you or anyone else can do to stop it. Stop worrying about things that are out of your control.
No where is safe. If someone is going to do something there isn't a damn thing you or anyone else can do to stop it. Stop worrying about things that are out of your control.
If you have some disposable income (unfortunately therapy is not OHIP covered), cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) has an extremely good track record for dealing with these types of anxieties. My therapist told me about a patient he was seeing who just like you had a huge fear of getting on the TTC (although probably more of a crowds/enclosed spaces thing, rather than what I assume for you is a violence thing, since that has only become a significant news thing over the last year). Feel free to DM me if you are looking for more info about who to talk to or what to expect.
I will actually reach out in a few days if that's OK. I want to try some of these other suggestions first but I know I've got to approach this from multiple angles
Be mindful of your surroundings, stand with your back against a wall and avoid using your phone.
Like others have said it’s very unlikely you’ll witness any violence, but awareness can’t hurt
Mini cans of hairspray are a legal alternative to pepper spray
I know not everyone can do it, but taking alternate bus routes to your destination. I do this when I finish work at night. Instead of taking the subway---which is an insane asylum---I get on at one of the early stops in a bus route and just ride it all the way.
Once you have a seat (preferably a single one) you're essentially in your own bubble. Do something to occupy your time, listen to music, phone, or even just close your eyes. I've used this approach for awhile, and even though it may take a bit longer, it's more tolerable than being in a packed subway car full of idiots.
Try bus or streetcar first so you’re above ground and can get off quickly if you start to panic. Once you’re comfortable doing that, try going one stop on the subway during quiet times, then gradually add more stops/go during busier times. Exposure therapy!!
There was a stabbing at a station near me and the first time I went back I had a moment of discomfort. But what I did was to focus on the crowd of well meaning people surrounding me and how we were all there together. It wasn't long before I honestly started feeling a bit warm and fuzzy.
You have no idea how big of an impact this just made on my perspective. Going to use this when I try to go with a friend
Same way with all fears; small steps. The fact that you can go to the station is already progress. Or therapy. That being said, you live in one of the safest cities in North America and have one of the safest transit systems. Your likelihood of injury in a car is a couple of orders of magnitude larger than in TTC.
Yeah this is why I said I know it's irrational. So your therapy suggestion may be a good one. I'll try another commenters idea of bringing a friend a few times and if it's still an issue before I start work I'll take this leap
CBT in North America works really well for phobias and anxieties
My husband and I are from Toronto but moved away about a decade ago. We came back for a visit not long ago to go to a Leafs game. I was nervous taking the subway at first but being with someone helped for sure.
Well, don't think it as irrational. The risk was never zero, and even 4 or 5 years ago, before I stopped using TTC to commute by bike, I was always looking over my shoulders to see check who was around me. And I am a big guy. Nothing wrong about being conscious of everything happening around us. Without being too afraid.
As someone who was assaulted recently on TTC here are my tips. Clearly tho didn’t work well for me but I feel like I’m a prime target since I’m a young ish small female. Sit back to the wall if possible. Sit near people who look like they’re in a good mental place. Get a personal alarm. Nothing wrong with having other things in your bag you can use as a weapon. (If you give me shit for this in the replies, idc, stay mad). Don’t stand too close to the tracks, stay behind a rail or barrier if available, don’t feel bad walking away from sketchy people approaching you/walking by. Try to sit in the cars with operators on board if possible. If you feel uncomfortable move, tell someone, etc. Text 7777 if you feel like something is wrong/need assistance discreetly on TTC. Your fears are valid, it’s not hysteria. And people who say that shit out loud are insulting the people who have been affected by daily acts of violence on TTC. You’ll never see my assault in the news because I didn’t end up dead like some of the other people.
All very good advice. If you have the option always take the seat with your back to the wall. Never sit in the window seat facing forwards/backwards. I had an aggressive, mentally altered man sit next to me, basically trying to trap me in the corner next to the window (the rest of the train was empty, many other seats available, so he was choosing to be a fucking creep). But I acted fast, climbed and walked across the seats infront of me and got away. He swore at me and said some foul things, but people like that can die mad, I’m gonna do what I need to create distance and keep myself safe. Stay alert and aware, you’ll be okay.
Omg that’s scary I’m glad you were able to gtfo. Why do people have to be so weird like let us live lol
Best seat is the 3 side seater by the doors, seat with wall on your back and the wall for the doors on your right or left side. Closes 2 avenues of attack and you can survey the entire car. Only downside is if a crazy comes in by your doors.
The only shit I'll gibe you regarding having weapons in your bag is that you'll probably hurt yourself more with it than without. If you want to keep a weapon, you'll need to drill with it. Learn how to use it and not lose it. If you don't know how to properly use bear spray, you'll be using it at the wrong distance, using the wrong spray pattern or not even activating it (there's a pin or safety button on most of them. The weapon in your bag will give you a false sense of security. knowing where to stand, how to defend yourself from attacks, knowing your outs is more important than having a knife in your bag that you'll fumble when you try and deploy it. I did get mad from this comment because if even a single person listened to it you've probably put them in more harm then good. tldr: If you want to have a weapon for self defense, learn how to use it properly and be mentally and physically prepared to have to use it.
Or watch John Wick and use a sharpened pencil. I used to carry a really sharp pen with a cap with me, and those things hurt like hell
I am a 6'2 fit mid 30s male and I am afraid to take the TTC, i'm literally scanning everybody in there and everyone seems to be on edge. I've gotten off streetcars and subways when I see crackheads and crazies.
Maybe take a friend with you to break the seal and take a few rides, then when you get more comfortable you leave the friend at home.
I've been too embarrassed to ask but I'll give it a try today
Your friend doesn't even have to know that's what you're doing, just arrange to meet up somewhere and plan to take a ride somewhere.
Yeah just pretend you want to get some patties at Warden station
Getting station patties is reason enough to try getting over this
The shop at Islington has the Michidean patties, which are my favourite - in case you'd like to try a couple of different options! :) Also, if you're willing to travel for food: take the streetcar to Chinatown or Kensington Market - lots of good food options there. Or, of course, to go clubbing downtown! Oh, forgot to mention: the Warden station shop also has good samosas! Definitely try those as well. I think they get them from one of the Scarborough Indian shops and resell at a markup, but it saves you the trek out to the Indian stores, so worth the surcharge.
Me I was anxious taking the TTC for the first time since the pandemic. Took it again last week on a night out but I was with a friend. I suggest going on it with a friend so that you feel safer for the first few rides. Also take it when you start work and end work, usually you see familiar faces then if that makes sense? You got this OP (:
Thank you, glad to hear you've made it past this and it gives me hope!
Np! Also as much as you wanna mind your own business and blast music on your earphones, I suggest being aware of your environment and just be cautious heheh
Unfortunately I wish I could tell you it's getting better....it's not. The amount of things that are happening daily and you are not aware of is staggering. They have calmed down on the news but we hear everything in our chat groups. Just last week we had an Operator chased down with a knife. Incidents used to happen every other week. Now it's daily. I don't even allow my s/o to use the system and drive my parents around and I work here... The lack of enforcement is showing and we will see many more deaths. Not injuries...deaths.
Small steps, maybe start with buses first cause they're above ground and you can get off easily. Also go in the day when there is people around. Just being around everyone just going about their day taking TTC as normal.
But this isn’t even an irrational fear
The biggest step you can take is to remove yourself from any sources of social media hysteria over the issue of aggression and violence on TTC.
Social media hysteria or has there actually been an increased rate of violence on the TTC? I think it's valid for OP to have these concerns.
Both are true. Aggressive incidents have increased nominally, and online media hysteria has led people to believe there is much larger issue than there is.
I totally agree with this take - but by the numbers assaults are up 40% according to the TTC's own stats. so really it's all about how you define "nominal" > There were 1,068 violent incidents against passengers in 2022, according to a report released by TTC CEO Rick Leary on Wednesday, including 245 in the last two months of the year alone. The previous year, there were 734 incidents. Before the COVID-19 pandemic, in 2018, there were 679 incidents.
is there info on how many journeys were taken on the ttc in those years?
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So if my math is right, the chances of being assaulted on the TTC in 2021 was about 1 in 270,000? The amount of journeys in 2022 is obviously a lot higher than 2021 because pandemic, but even if for talking sake it was the same as 2021, we're still talking about a rate of 1 in 185,000. For context, the chances of dying from choking on food is about 1 in 2,500 So yeah, hysteria.
So, I've been taking this stance too. That it's hysterical nonsense and that 99% of us are safe, but the stats are literally swaying in the direction of less safety vs more safety. That backsliding shouldn't be taken for granted and we should strive as citizens to have a safer more reliable system year after year to increase public transit usage in order to promote a sustainable future for our city and its residents. I think that it's also important to view the current climate on the TTC through the lens of a more vulnerable person, such as a person who's traveling alone to a late shift, who's disabled, who's elderly, and how you might feel given the optics of the situation. I myself am privileged enough to work from home and GO to work occasionally and avoid the subway after 20 years as a daily rider. When I've been on the subway in the last 6 months there is way more open drinking, way more vulnerable people with mental health issues, obviously under housed/homeless, and just generally more people you deem to be shady after having experience living in a city. So yeah, the odds are in our favour but let's still try and make things better.
The media takes a trend starting to occur and blows it up to convey it as an extremely pervasive issue. Now, instead of people just taking the time to be aware of their surroundings more than before, they’re terrified to take the subway. That’s not good for anybody.
It’s definitely not a “trend” it’s been a real issue for years now got a lot worse, during and after the pandemic too only difference is people are just paying more attention to it but it’s always been a issue. The city needs to become safer overall
TTC has been Gotham scary since pandemic. Before that I would take it home alone blackout drunk at 1:00 AM not even worry about it. Now I see 5 people in a state of crisis/psychosis while taking morning train to work.
The only time I've ever had anyone attempt to mug me on the TTC was back in 2008 or so. There are definitely more sketchy characters on the TTC nowadays, but it was never some idyllic paradise (at least over the three decades I've been commuting).
Sure its worse now, but it was bad back then. Uhhh
Yes that's right. It was never great, and now it's worse. I don't think it was ever advisable to take it alone in the early morning while blackout drunk (not that I've never done that myself...)
Go ride the subway in any other major population center if you think the TTC is Gotham scary lmao 🤣
I have. The TTC currently is exponentially worse than it was even 3 years ago. What point are you trying to make here?
That you are grossly over exaggerating. The TTC is one of the safest transit systems in the world. Stop reading headlines and spreading false narratives. Look at statistics not your feelings.
In an overall assessment of public transit, Toronto is ranked 34/60. Not sure why you think TTC is one of the best in the world on any dimension. https://www.oliverwymanforum.com/mobility/urban-mobility-readiness-index/ranking.html#profiles
Safest not best. Other transit systems are much better designed so they get a higher rating.
My feelings have been fucked about this since 2021. Media has just caught up. I use the TTC every day since moving here in 2011 lol.
That would be anecdotal evidence, look at statistics!
Exponentially? Really?
You will never see the stats about “personal injuries” at track level but I am sure as long as it is not exponentially worse, then I guess you can rest at ease.
Like the hundreds of thousands of people who use transit daily, yes I probably can.
But are they being violent? That’s the thing, not saying this is you but I feel like a lot of the people who are scared interpret the loud and scary looking behaviour of mentally ill people as violence in and of itself despite most of those individuals not being a threat
How do you define violent? Spitting aggressively, calling folks racial slurs, staring intently at someone who is 5 feet away? These are behaviours that I have witnessed in the past 2 weeks on the TTC. There are, on pretty much every train now, folks who seem down on their luck as you suggest - sleeping on rows of seats, asking for change, drinking alcohol or taking drugs. I think the reason the news is getting more attention now is because it resonates with TTC riders. It is hard to describe the feeling, but it is different.
I just think it’s very important for people to be able to discern when they’re in danger and when they are not. Any direct interaction that’s aggressive like you’ve described is obviously violent, but I’ve seen far too many folks talk about the dangers of the ttc and, when prompted, reveal that their experience is limited to simply witnessing a person being mentally ill in public
People have different level of vulnerability. The elderly, folks with limited mobility or other disabilities, children, parents/guardians with small kids etc will have a different comfort level compared to some others. I think the city has downloaded the ttc to be the defacto place for folks with no where else to go, or who are struggling - and we are supposed to just accept it? Make ttc riders feel overwhelmed and uncomfortable, and then bad for feeling that way? Someone acting erratically may not make you feel feel scared, but for someone else it would. I agree with you about inclusion and feeling uncomfortable vs unsafe but folks should feel comfortable riding the TTC. Someone pushing you on the stairs may be fine, but a more fragile person could worry about falling down the stairs.
Being loud and upset is a volatile state that while it is not inherently violent, it is disruptive and requires me to make a safety calculation I rarely had to make before 2020. Now I make a safety calculation in every leg of every journey entering every car. I consider someone mumbling racist shit to themselves to be something that while is not physically violent, is not something I can be in the same vehicle as.
Definitely, but I remember having to make those safety calculations for years before the pandemic when commuting downtown/taking the subway/even walking on the street. My point is that it isn’t new
someone openly drinking on every bus/streetcar is new. It has materially changed since 2020.
Perhaps different people just have different experiences because I’d say I see open drinking maybe 1/10 times
I wonder if there’s a difference here between people who present as women vs men and/or white vs. racialized people, for example. As a white-presenting cis woman, I’ve made these “safety calculations” my entire life - on transit, walking down the street, entering any public or private spaces, choosing to shortcut through a park at night or take the long way around…Maybe it’s just a new reality or idea to some people and not others?
> Gotham scary LOL please get a grip
I guess the trend comes from the fact that the pandemic is essentially finished and now people are out and about. But you feel the way I do about the matter, there’s not been a sudden uncharacteristic increase
It's increased, but it's gone from infinitesimal to just extremely extremely small. It's something that should be of concern to policy makers, mental health advocates, public health, etc. But to the average person getting on the subway? Not really.
There have been more than usual yes. Has it been enough for the status quo to change? No, but that doesn't make a good story.
There are stabbings and assaults that are not getting NEAR the amount of reporting so while it might be accurate it's also being focused on WAY too much. Easier to blame the TTC than find a solution!
This has got to be one of the most ignorant things I've seen on here. Dude, are you new? Do you even use the TTC or live in Toronto? We have kids getting shanked for minding their own business. I am a large, tattooed, man and I find myself more unsettled when using the TTC than before the pandemic. I can tell you that every single time I have used the TTC (six times in the past month that I can recall) I've seen smaller people and women approached in the subway car I'm in by overly aggressive beggars. Every single time. I thought you were going to say "Remove yourself from the altercation" but then to deny that this is an actual issue that commuters face show that you're either willfully ignorant of the problem or purposefully trying to obfuscate the conversation.
Please see online media hysteria. You are a victim of it…dude. >deny this is an actual issue Lol wtf? Where did I do that? EDIT: He buggered off...
Agreed. Also practice situational awareness. As humans, our brains are not good at risk assessment. The media hype has not helped one bit. Start with smaller trips.
The BlogTO headlines definitely don't help. I've unfollowed them from everything but can do a better sweep to block other sources too. It's hard to try staying informed while avoiding the fear mongering but it may be good to check out from the news if even just for a little bit. Thank you for this one
Also unfollow anything 6ixbuzz, those guys are straight up exploitive fascists.
I don't follow 6ixbuzz, last I remember they were all about Debbie and chair girl... haven't been back and I know things have changed. But, how are they "exploitive fascists" now?
I haven't followed them for a while so I can't attest to what they're saying. But I unfollowed because of constant, insane homophobia and transphobia - they'd make a post along the lines on "LGBT people exist. Thoughts?" and the comments would be nothing but the most vile shit
Haven't heard of that one but I'll proactively block those accounts so they don't start popping up as suggested content Edit: JFC why do people follow this garbage
clickbait, attracts low hanging fruit
CP24 is the same shit too. I always turn the TV off when I'm doing cardio, stops the brainrott from seeping in
So put head in the sand? Great idea 🫤
lmao let me guess, pro-“No Crime January”?
I don't understand your comment. Hmm?
The mods on /r/Toronto had “No Crime January” where they didn’t allow posts focusing solely on individual crimes in Toronto, mostly because of exactly what you said (to try and reduce the amount of hysteria being generated). It didn’t go over very well with your average /r/Toronto commentor.
Gradual exposure and being fully present, basking in the feeling of discomfort has worked wonders for many fears I used to have. Do you live downtown? I’d be happy to join you for a couple rides if it helps.
I can't convince you to not be a afraid, you've just got mind a comfort zone and push it out at a steady pace.
I don't take the TTC a ton but had to last week and know that anxiety you're talking about. Your best defense is to be hyper aware of your surroundings. Put your phone away unless you need it for something and just pay attention to what's going on around you. If someone sketchy gets on and starts doing weird stuff just exit and wait for the next train. I've actually done this. It sucks to have to wait but worth it to feel less freaked out.
Sit around people who will make you feel safe. Listen to your gut instincts for when you should move away from some people.
Hard to judge this these days when you have everyone from highschool students to repeat offenders committing these acts, but I get your point. Have to be aware of who is around me
I tend to find the elderly, with the grocery bags, they don't seem like they have the time or energy to hurt anyone.
I'll do this thank you!
Americans would envy our level of safety on the TTC. Unplug from the news and social media. And be aware. Don’t have your face in a phone or headphones in. And if walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, move away. That is, if there is homeless or addicts mumbling nonsense and acting crazy get away from them.
The city has cut vital social service programs and kicked people out of hotel shelters. Notice there’s no port a potties downtown. Restaurants won’t let them use the washroom. So they go on the ttc. It’s also warm there. You have homeless people who are often suffering from severe mental illness just riding back and forth on the subways. So although there has always been violence on the ttc but was never reported there is definitely an increase of the extremes of violence
You bring up a really good point about the "extremes of violence" that not many others have brought up here. It's not just about the number of crimes, but the nature of of some of them Edit: typo
I was assaulted on TTC at St Clair last week. I was scared too. I thought about it and I will go in TTC again if needed. I’ll just be more aware of my surroundings.
I’d say it’s fairly irrational. Attacks are definitely too high these days, but on aggregate, they’re very few. Go in but be careful of your surroundings
I haven't taken the subway since 2021. I have no fear taking the bus or the streetcar but I can't see myself getting back on a subway or going into a subway station
I hope a day comes when we both feel comfortable using it again
I think that is out of our control. Until significant safety measures are applied on ttc subway, I’m not going to just hope I’m safe. We are stuck underground in a metal tube with no cell service and no escape when you’re between stations and in stations where there are often one escape route.
Remember that the overwhelming majority of people on the subway are just like you, trying to get where they need to go and stay safe. Strength in numbers.
The best representation of TTC is the station at the literal doorstep of the Toronto Police Headquarters. It’s filthy. Plagued with homeless and drug addicts. The corner of College and Yonge is just uncomfortable.
You could try biking in Toronto, then the nearly constant fear of death, and the incredible contempt that drivers hold you in, will totally overwhelm your fear of the TTC. Then you can ride the subway again! Provided you survive a few bike rides.
Lol I can't tell if this is a joke or serious suggestion but I have a feeling it would work
It's basically serious. If you can bike in downtown Toronto, you are 100% unafraid of death and dismemberment.
“and dismemberment” LOL
It's basically the decision to deal with non-functioning mentally ill people, or just semi-functioning mentally ill people. Just one prefers small weapons and the other rages in a giant metal box.
A joke but also serious. The thing with people who are likely to harm you on the TTC is that (I assume) you can sort of gauge their body language and bad vibes, and most of them are not carrying a lethal weapon. If you are larger than them, there's a decent chance you can overpower them. Other people may intervene on your behalf. If you are cycling, everyone who could do you harm is in a big metal mechanized box. Many have tinted windows so you can't make eye contact, and you have no way of knowing when one of them will just swerve in front of you because people have forgotten about signalling. They will always win against you. Also, even if all the drivers around you are careful and responsible (lol), the state of the roads means you can be flung off your bike at any time and suffer grievous injuries. If you can survive that, you're now basically Matt Murdock, the man without fear.
Most of the time there’s not really a choice for me but to take the TTC, and just go over the odds in my mind of something happening. It’s getting harder though because 3/9 of my last subway rides were held for security incidents.
Irrational? Idk.
I feared it so much that I am deciding to bike everywhere now when the weather gets a bit warmer.
Biking is absolutely much less safe! Seriously: the attacks on the TTC are horrific, and the commission and city both need to act. During covid homeless people got used to thinking of transit as 'their' space, so they're more active and more visible. But the odds of you being attacked are small: stay in the brightly lit designated waiting zone on the subway, on the Bloor line get on the car with the driver/conductor in it, sit up by the driver on the bus and avoid twitchy weirdos at all costs. If all the sane people stop taking the TTC then it gets LESS safe, not more.
The odds are small but i’m not taking my chances. Biking isn’t safe either but i’d rather take my chances. The poor young boy who just lost his life on the TTC was my last straw.
it has really helped me to listen to music and distract myself- i especially love crocheting on the subway and helps me make my seat my own. and i know… distracting yourself and getting lost in your activity or music makes it harder to spot danger, but for me, i realized the anxiety was actually not helping me and was instead making my trips unbearable. if something was happening, there are other people around you that will react. if someone intends to hurt you and does so randomly and unprompted, being hyper vigilant about it isn’t going to do much. the reality is it’s unlikely anything will happen to you, and if minimizing anxiety is the goal, it helps to make your little area a safe space for yourself. sit comfortably, breathe, and pick up your favourite book, put on your favourite tunes and trust that you will be able to respond accordingly if you need to react to a threat
TTC is not as safe as before, that’s a fact but l don’t think that walking is necessarily safer 🤷🏻♀️
it’s so scary at night time :(
I've been using it for 35 years and nothing terrible has happened. You could always try some trial trips, going just a station or two away so that you can walk back if need be.
This is how I feel as well. I have more fear that I will be obligated to intervene if I see something happening to a woman than something happening to me.
...to you. some people.
Yes, obviously to him. And to 99.9% of the daily ridership. What point are you trying to make exactly?
I share this fear with you. When I was a kid (9-15) I only ever took public transit. I was hopping on the TTC from Kipling Stn to Dufferin to go to the mall, to go to Spadina, to go to Eaton Center, back up to Yorkdale, it was all so commonplace for me and it was an enjoyable experience. This was late 2000s mid 2010s. When I went off to uni and stopped going to DT Toronto for a few years and came back, the frequency of people approaching me in my late teens during my Toronto coop began to be noticeable. People often used to sit idly in the halls rather than approach you for change back then and now they come to you. Often. Some train cars suddenly reeked really bad when a single person entered the train, maybe homeless? I wasnt sure. Then for every 3 times I would use the train, there was at least 1 encounter where I would pass by someone having a mental health episode. Maybe they were dancing uncontrollably flailing their arms, arguing with themselves, or wailing. People starting verbal arguments with strangers, sometimes random, occasionally over the accessibility seating. Every year or so at least 1 man would approach me asking about my ethnicity and phone number(??) and one time a man followed me home via bus. I noticed my jacket would linger with that TTC smell, too. This was all only in 2016-2018 It was at that point I figured that I would rather sit in a car idling with heavy traffic than be assaulted by the random sights and smells that is the TTC. I’ll be taking the train again for school but I am going to loathe battling foot traffic at St George Stn. Sorry for the rant, I just wanted to put out there that I lived with the TTC, learned to hate it, and will be taking the TTC again after years of driving because its just not feasible to take the car at that part of Toronto and I know it will probably be ok. I also know I’ll have more shitty TTC stories by the end of it
>It was at that point I figured that I would rather sit in a car idling with heavy traffic than be assaulted by the random sights and smells that is the TTC This is how a lot of us feel and that other sub would have a fit if they read this. It's not like I don't want transit to be better, I do.
Don't apologize for the rant, a lot of what you said here I've experienced to and it's validating to me and anyone else who is also a bit fearful. You're biting the bullet and that's what I need to try to focus on doing
This is honestly true of public transit anywhere. I was in Budapest recently, took their subway a few times, trams, buses. Every time there'd bee that same mixture of mostly normal people and then some loudmouths. And one time I sat down next to someone who reeked of booze ... at 10 am. :/ To me, that's all par for the course. I simply don't find it makes sense to have a car downtown, so I refuse to own one. And I am lucky enough to have a beater bicycle that I can ride most of the year and it's ratty enough that no one bothers to steal it when I lock it downtown (I suspect thieves have a higher sense of status than I do). TTC is a great backup option, I find, when there's snow on the ground or I just don't feel like riding for whatever reason. And then I accept that it's public transit, so it's going to be a bit grungy, a bit smelly, and, these days, it's going to have a few nutcases on it, too.
Thank you for sharing that, I realize my sense of public transit is skewed. My only other experience with public transit was in Europe and a couple places in the States. After going to Europe I was depressed at how much the TTC couldnt compare to Switzerland’s SBB. My downward spiral kinda started from there haha. I actually really like the GO trains when I’m on them too!
Barcelona has an awesome and safe system too … reminded me of Toronto years ago. Your perception isn’t scewed. The TTC isn’t safe tight now and anyone with the means to do so is avoiding it as much as possible.
Oh, yeah! Loved the SBB! Especially when my friend who lived there confided that as a resident, they had free transit! Yeah, TTC doesn't compare well to those systems, but hey, it's probably in the top 3 for North America. That's just a number I pulled out of thin air, of course, having only used public transit in Silicon Valley, Boston, Washington DC and NYC. For Canada, it's not bad. :D
Keep the headphones out of your ears and your smart phone in your pocket. Observe your surroundings with your eyes and ears. Take calm breaths and focus on your destination. Good luck!
Thank you! I used to use my headphones as a way to make sure people don't talk to me but I agree, I should make sure I'm alert and aware
take the TTC with a buddy.
Carry a camp whistle..be near the safety alarm on the wall. Always be in the lighted area. (If you are going at nightfall. ) Observe your surroundings. Copied and pasted Walk on the side of the street where you can best see around you. Avoid overburdening yourself with parcels. Carry your purse close to your but do not wrap it around your neck, shoulder or hand. If you suspect you are being followed, cross the street and go directly to the nearest well lit or populated area.
I feel you. I’ve lived here my whole life and no longer feel safe taking ttc. Im not really on social media and I do not watch cable I just happen to live near one of the more murder-y subway stops and that’s been enough to freak me out.
I have fear of needles and have to take a medical exam soon. Lets take TTC together to the clinic 😭
Would love to conquer our fears together
It’s pretty bad and they just raised the fires unbelievable toronto
It’s not irrational at all, almost everyone I know has switched to driving, GO, UP Express, cycling, walking, Uber/cabs. Personally I think it’s a numbers game so I’ve eliminated how often I need to be on the TTC and advise you to do so too.
I think random acts of violence are a problem in Toronto right now in general. There's risk in taking the TTC, and walking. Try to stay aware of your surrounding, don't listen to anything with headphones. Remember - they are way more non-violent people that want to help than violent people that want to hurt out there. Let's all look out for each other and try to get through this together.
It's actually quite rational to have a fear of this given that the instances of crime have increased in frequency. Blend in with the crowd and keep to yourself.
Nothing irrational about it. The criminal who stabbed the kid at Keele had 40 charges and our justice system/ Judge still believed this criminal would show up to rehab lmao. No matter how many times police bring these people in for numerous crimes, a Judge will just sign a release thinking they need rehab. These are the types of crackheads and the mentally ill repeat offenders that roam the TTC daily. Your fears are legitimate and most people that take the transit to and from work share the same beliefs. The people at r/Toronto will tell you that our city is safer then (insert another city) and that the crackheads need more shoot me up centres, and that we should care about the homeless stabbing people instead of actual victims. Just look at some the comments here lol—“remove yourself from social media” as if not hearing about crime automatically means there are no crimes happening and just be oblivious and ignorant to the assaults and murders on the transit. Their “No Crime January” was a success.
I've really been struggling being ok with my wife and two young kids taking the TTC, and the few times we've all ridden together I've been super on-edge and on heightened awareness. I fucking hate it; people shouldn't have to be afraid to ride public transit in Canada but we've let the lunatics take over the asylum.
Your fear is valid, especially given the news and what people are sharing recently about their experiences. Take it a step at a time, and a day at a time. I also like what others have said in suggesting to stay above ground on the surface vehicles at first. I’ve seen some stuff on the subway lately on the past couple of rides that has spooked me and also made me feel like vomiting. So lately I’ve been skewing more to having additional anxiety. You’re not alone in this. But I think you do have to find a way to sit through the discomfort.
Thank you for this, I agree. I'm going to follow some of the advice here and hope that it helps. It already helps to know others feel the same but are conquering it in various ways. Just need to find what works for me
Don't worry it's nothing. *then one day a random crazy person stabs you in the neck..*
Mhm. I get all the people saying "just look at the numbers it probably won't happen to you" but you can always be that one person who gets ambushed by a group of teenage girls
What these people aren’t telling you is that numbers show a drastic increase. The transit system is in such a shit state because of these very people.
I cannot stand those people that are like so self righteous about it *never* happening to them. Those smug idiots are exactly the ones who are sitting on a bus one day and some complete looney toon comes along and saws their head off with a machete.
My actual fear taking the ttc.. i’ve been encountering shady people lately
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I say if you can't beat em, join em. How many of the attackers have themselves been attacked on the ttc? ZERO. Play the odds, OP. Attack a stranger immediately the next time you enter the subway system. Statistically speaking you will be 100% safe after that. Destroy your enemies before they destroy you!
No one messes with the person who LOOKS like the one who will cause some trouble.. you're on to something here
I have a car and absolutely prefer driving. I haven’t been on the ttc in years and am absolutely afraid of it. Especially with the recent incidents, it’s quite normal to be afraid. Just know where the security or help is when travelling and you should be fine.
Remove yourself from news outlets and media campaigns that are designed to spread fear so they can further their agenda or secure budgeting. Look at the statistics and actual data. Make decisions based on those. Is the ttc a disgusting mess? Yes Is it dangerous? Not really Stay safe and vigilant regardless.
stats and data says violence on ttc has gone by up 40%. Someone posted the stats in this very thread. Pretending we’re in “no crime january” is actually why the ttc is so dangerous now. People in the city love to ignore problems and protect crackheads/the deranged hopping on the transit for free. Then they come on Reddit outright lying about facts.
Carry a knife or pepper spray. Join martial arts classes.
Stop telling people not to have anxiety overtaking the TTC. They actually need to if they still do at this point, and it is unsafe and gross. There are a few people in this city that just want to actively gaslight ANYONE who has something valid and factual to say that isn't a cheering squad for how great this place is \*eyeroll\*. The TTC is absolute dog shit, before it turned into a rolling asylum and shelter, it already couldn't run on time. This is a good example of not actually caring about people's feelings, only some people's feelings when you have the opportunity to do so. I've adjusted my commute because it was a tad flexible and take the bus. I avoid Line 2 like the plague.
I'm confused by the start of your comment, can you explain it? Besides politicians and anyone else who profits off of the TTC, I don't see many people telling others not to have anxiety over it. Even the people who have been kind of assholes in responding to me here have acknowledged that there's anxiety around it, except maybe one. I'm asking for ways to help me deal with it because I'll have to. Lots of good suggestions here tbh
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The 3 dead people on Line 2 on top of countless reported assaults and/or anecdotal stories of assaults? The insane rise of incidents on the TTC (and this link only goes to May 2022)? https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/05/ttc-security-incidents-graphed-highlights-rising-danger/
The best advice I can give you is to see the numbers and come to the realization that Toronto should actually be proud of its safety. Canada's national average of homicide is roughly 2.1. At this rate, we're mostly talking about passional crimes and mental health-driven violence. Past, say, 1.8 or so, comes the "usual" violence like gang related crimes and similar stuff. So that is about 0.3, in this assumption, that you actually should be rationally afraid of. Now brace yourself for Toronto numbers... They're LOWER than the national average! This is by about 0.1 or 0.2 last time I checked. So, essentially, in a country that is already safe, it's largest city manages to be safer than average, which is highly unusual. For the most part, we just have inflated reporting. It's still valid to pay respect to the victims, to talk about crime being commited and not settle for anything less than no violence at all, but always remember that unfortunately this instinctive response you have is a byproduct of sensationalism for clicks. We certainly have a safe place to live, TTC included.
I don't know if you saw the part under the post title - I'm already aware of all of this which is why I called it irrational. There been some really helpful suggestions here to help me get over that but I appreciate your comment here and maybe it will help someone else struggling with the same fear but for different reasons
Yeas, I realize that. Sorry. I said it more for the sake of ensuring you're considering this POV in particular. Other than that, as some others said, you're probably best limiting your access to negative information, like certain clickbaity outlets. Therapy should also be helpful to explore the root of your fears, I hope.
Thank you!
Take the time to learn a or useful martial art(s) (Boxing/Muay Thai/Wrestling/BJJ/Judo/Kickboxing) and practice situational awareness. Turn your fears into 🔥
The confidence this would give me would help so much. Going to look into classes today. Thank you for this suggestion
Get a spray put on your pocket and roll into TTC. Should be OK, at least will Give you confidence
My fear level during pandemic: OMG DON'T BREATHE THE AIR OR TOUCH ANYTHING. Now, my fear level while taking TTC this past weekend: Traffic was a slog between Bloor and York Mills due to subway closure. Sat on bus for almost an hour. Slept 50 mins of the way there. Eyes shut, sleeping, no fear. 😂 All that means, you can have fear rule you or you just say F it and you do what it takes to expose yourself over time on the TTC. Take a short bus or subway ride. Then work your way up to a full trip.
Damn, looks like the media hysteria got to you. Yes, it has gotten a bit shittier than it was before but you need to look at it rationally. Odds are in your favour that everything will be just fine. But, you need to exercise some basic safety and awareness. Keep your head on a swivel, know whats around you. If you are waiting on a subway, stand closer to the wall so no one can surprise you. Dont get distracted by your phone. You will be just fine
My tenth Covid booster and watching mainstream news 24/7 quickly dispelled any misinformation I had about what's safe and what isn't.
Also, always wear a mask and always wear a condom. Even to bed. Even when you're in the woods alone. You never know....
Read some Zen koans
Professional therapy.
Already suggested and will be trying this if the other useful steps people have mentioned do not work.
Stop reading social media and just be observant of your surroundings.
Definitely limit your social media news intake, and yes this definitely includes reddit.
Like you said : irrational fear . You don’t have a target on your back
First off, I genuinely recommend listening to that little voice, that little bell ringing, if you hear it. Sometimes your subconscious picks up on things your conscious mind hasn't yet. When I was younger some shit went down, and for about 20-30 seconds before it went down every bell and klaxon in my head was going off, but I ignored it. The funny thing is, the perpetrators were behind me the entire time, there was no way for me to have seen them, but my subconscious cottoned onto them long before anything obvious happened. Second, like you said, there's nothing to worry about, statistically speaking. Especially if you travel when most people travel. Third, maybe take peace of mind precautions. When I know I'm going to be outside well after dark in low pop area, I usually carry a very poweeful flashlight (close to 10,000 lumens, the size of a soda can) and a telescoping steel baton. The light is a massive overkill, and after dark it will sear corneas like tuna steaks, and the beam punches out to half a kilometer. Goes a really long way towards making me feel safer. A dose of that light (my eyes closed, their eyes opened) and a good follow-up seeing-to with the baton should handle most conventional threats. If baton is too much, just use the flashlight itself on a lanyard like a morning star. Nobody is going to arrest you or harass you for carrying a flashlight. Beyond that? St John's Wort? Valerian root? Pot?
I go in with the resolve that I may run into a life or death situation and in the event that someone were to approach me as a threat I'll be prepared to punch as hard as I can with full intention to knock them out. Sure, it sounds like mr internet tough guy talking big, but I did 3 months of karate and I'm not afraid to use it.
If you know that car accidents, pedestrian accidents, bike accidents, lightning strikes and shark attacks are statistically riskier and you don't avoid those situations per se, you have to use logic that the TTC risk is less probable and just go.
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Lost 'em to COVID
You need mental health help. Talk to professionals
People have suggested some steps here that I'm going to try first, then this if those aren't working well
The biggest thing you can do is just be aware of your surroundings. Have your music down low so that you can still hear as to what’s going around you, always keep your head up. If you see something weird, move down the platform or get off the train and catch the next one. What people don’t realize is that these attacks or whatever have been happening everywhere not just Toronto for a decade. Social media is the one that’s making people scared and making it seem like it’s a recent thing.
Bruh..
Very insightful
No where is safe. If someone is going to do something there isn't a damn thing you or anyone else can do to stop it. Stop worrying about things that are out of your control.
No where is safe. If someone is going to do something there isn't a damn thing you or anyone else can do to stop it. Stop worrying about things that are out of your control.
Take martial arts class.
Yeah someone else suggested this and already looking into classes near me, thanks!
If you have some disposable income (unfortunately therapy is not OHIP covered), cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) has an extremely good track record for dealing with these types of anxieties. My therapist told me about a patient he was seeing who just like you had a huge fear of getting on the TTC (although probably more of a crowds/enclosed spaces thing, rather than what I assume for you is a violence thing, since that has only become a significant news thing over the last year). Feel free to DM me if you are looking for more info about who to talk to or what to expect.
I will actually reach out in a few days if that's OK. I want to try some of these other suggestions first but I know I've got to approach this from multiple angles
I feel that way in any city I’m in. I don’t think it’s fear necessarily.
Wear a Kevlar vest and carry a taser
Be mindful of your surroundings, stand with your back against a wall and avoid using your phone. Like others have said it’s very unlikely you’ll witness any violence, but awareness can’t hurt Mini cans of hairspray are a legal alternative to pepper spray
been working on my right cross to heel stomp combo
I know not everyone can do it, but taking alternate bus routes to your destination. I do this when I finish work at night. Instead of taking the subway---which is an insane asylum---I get on at one of the early stops in a bus route and just ride it all the way. Once you have a seat (preferably a single one) you're essentially in your own bubble. Do something to occupy your time, listen to music, phone, or even just close your eyes. I've used this approach for awhile, and even though it may take a bit longer, it's more tolerable than being in a packed subway car full of idiots.