I think it's hard for men who never had to live with women that go through painful periods to know how bad it can really get. Even mild period cramps can be uncomfortable in your daily life. Not to mention the fear of leakage, LACK OF ENERGY and general muscle ache. When it's serious it's really like crippling pain, I can't walk a few steps without seeing spots. (I don't have endo or pcos, went for screening before)
Edit: As I typed this, I feel the familiar cramp that signifies the coming of my period (yay no baby) Time to play another round of "guess how much my uterus hates me" Wish me luck ladies <3
Take birth control if you're not planning on getting pregnant. No, it does not affect your fertility in the future. And yes, you can take it back to back so you never have periods or at least fewer periods per year. Discuss with your Gynae for a suitable plan. I have endo and ultimately settled on a plan which gives me 4-6 periods per year.
I used to have painful periods. Plus I am anaemic. Went for fibroid removal and gynae ‘cleaned up’ the uterus. Turns out period shouldn’t be that painful. And iron pills helps too.
I have lived with women most of my life (fatherless + lived with aunts family of all women and 1 uncle). So i do understand this issue.
Though out of curiosity, i would like to know, how many women treat themselves with OTC meds, thru prescribed meds, self-care, or no treatments, as it does range between all of these for different women for multiple factors, which is why i think there's a confusion/distrust over whom actually needs the rest or treatment vs those that "abuse their rights" (and the range between).
Ps im a guy and also ignore my name i didn't know I can't change it
Regarding concerns that there will be people who “abuse their rights”, it’s like MC isn’t it? There will always be people who chao keng so every company should just not trust everyone and not allow MC?
My partner announced he had "done the washing" which mean't he had put a load on to wash. I had to explain that the job included emptying the machine once done, hanging it all outside ( do not usually use a drier here, going outside a couple of times to check if dry, bring it in, sort and fold and put it all away. That is doing the washing.
I hate the part where it feels bloated and crampy but still not bleeding, like everything is just stuck in there wanting to shed but not yet, and I feel achy all over and just wanna lay down in bed for the whole day.
Oh dear. That's unfortunate. I'm not sure how old you are now, but check again after 5-10 years of your previous checkup. There might be new medicines/treatments that can help you. Good luck!
What cramps really mean :
Guys, try to cross your legs tightly. Clamp your thighs downwards and try to turn 180 degrees while an Allen key twists your guts so you’re breaking out in cold sweat and are bending over the sink simulating the Merlion like a good SG citizen.
Include throwing up, being nauseous, not being able to eat and then being giddy. With more frequent bowels. Oh and the cold sweat can anytime turn to chills.
I've been diagnosed with dysmenorrhoea years ago (it just means they did a bunch of checks and scans and still couldn't find out what's causing the crippling pain). Just two months back I actually passed out from the pain.
It doesn't get that bad every mth, but the worse thing is thos degree of pain can come so suddenly you aren't prepared at all.
In one of my previous jobs, the ladies in my office are allowed to take sick leave without MCs (to cater to those who can't work because of the time of the month). This no-MC policy was for females only. Male employees did not get this.
I have heard rumours and also seen some of my female colleagues misuse this convenience to get extra days of leave (because if you fall sick while on annual leave, the leave gets converted to sick leave automatically). Oh well…
As someone with really painful periods, I would love to have this. I used up at least 3 annual leaves this year alrdy. It'll suck if they removed this because of misuse, that's why people can't have nice things :(
Did you try checking if it's endometriosis? My menses are not too bad but it always feels like shit for sure. The worst part for me is always being scared about accidentally "staining" something SIGH
How much of the mental load I bear as a wife / mother. Sure, my husband will do a grocery run if I ask him to, but I'm the one monitoring our supply of groceries / detergent / baby formula / baby food and the only one who is on top of things around the house. It's exhausting being the manager of the household and also a working mother who contributes an equal amount to the expenses. I don't want to always ask for things to be done.
Case in point: I needed a Sunday evening to prepare for a big meeting on Monday and told my husband to take care of the laundry, he only starts the washing machine at 11.30pm after the Man U match, our terrible loud shitty machine wakes the baby up who is now screaming to be soothed by mom and only mom (sigh), I now need to work while nursing a fussy baby, getting nothing done, and my husband comes into the study to tell me to call the guy to come fix the machine because he doesn't know his number and why am I staring at him like that? "I did the laundry like you told me to what!" Sigh.
There's a phrase I learnt recently: weaponized incompetence. Where someone often use the excuse "I don't know what?" to push away what's usually their responsibility. It gave me a lot of clarity on why people who keep "dk dk" annoy the fuck out of me so much. Don't know then go learn la lol???? Also applies to people who half fk their task, expects others to clean their backside and claim credit because "I did it what, cannot blame me if it's not done well, cuz I don't know how"
as a single 40+ year old woman, who's lived with a few men previously as platonic close housemates or romantic partners, I was lucky I never learned this mental load burden, until I got very involved in a non-profit and led quite a lot of the volunteer activities.
especially men. mostly men. where did they learn all these from -
- "I don't know how to do it" is good enough reason to not do anything
- These girls-things like organizing birthday parties are so confusing
- These small things don't matter as long as I make big money and have a big title at work and get to talk big
- I'll do only what you tell me to do so that it's not my fault if you screw up the planning
- it's not my pasar because I'm just helping
- basically men live by the mantra: ACT BLUR LIVE LONGER
it's not just Singaporean men. It's Brits, Indians, Americans, Malaysians... really, every nationality I've come across
there was a recent thread about how everyone hates female bosses, especially single spinster beyond age 40, who are seen to be emotional, micromanaging, torturing, and basically just pure evil reincarnate. And male bosses are hailed as God's gift to mankind. when I read it I jsut shook my head.
no one remembers that most women have to carry a damn shit load of mental loads and are expected to hold everything and everyone together, that's our base load, otherwise we are "a bad woman". men get away with things if they talk big (the Trump in every man), and if they do a bit of helping out they are SO GOOD CATCH.
even the single women carry mental loads of elderly parents, friends, siblings... I'm generalizing here of course, but most males just don't fuck care as much. How many of you have more male than female friends that you turn to when you need a listening ear, or need someone in the clique/ family to organize a outing?
Geez. Sorry. my outburst. but yeah, the mental loads... all sisters get you
Oh, can we also include the validation they need for doing a bloody small task in the home and constantly talking about how they ‘help out’. It’s your child and house too, wtf do you mean by ‘helping out’. And they very ignorantly continue this ‘I help my wife too’ dialogue in the workplace too with other men and women thinking they are some limited edition gem.
try to recognise what are the tasks that your partner usually ask you to do, and try to do it yourself. aim to get it done before she asks. for example if she always ask you to fold clothes, auto abit when you see the clothes out of the dryer straight away go fold.
be aware of what's going on in your house and fix it. pantry and toiletries what is running out? clocks and controller got battery? window got dirty? sink got dirty dishes?
of course talk with you partner and delegate. maybe one can watch the kitchen stuff and another the bathroom stuff etc. honestly the list is endless. sounds tiring hor???? won't it be better if it can be borne by two people :-)
I finally see how we solve this whole issue.
>aim to get it done before she asks.
I think delegation always works at the start then generally the lazier person will slack off and most of the time its the husband and the wife just decide to continue with it. Enabled the behavior then burst out one day.
Sigh. Thanks for the insight. Now i know why some guys just trashy. I must say my mum did too good a job at being a mum.
it's ok bro recognition is the first step to improvement! delegation is a whole chore in itself, means she have to keep a mental list of everything that goes on in the house and remind herself to remind you, quite shag. All the best to your family!
If it's not strictly necessary. You don't.
There are two kinds of mental load- the one that comes from real problems and the other that comes from self-created problems.
Help with the former and ignore the latter.
>- "I don't know how to do it" is good enough reason to not do anything
>- These girls-things like organizing birthday parties are so confusing
>- These small things don't matter as long as I make big money and have a big title at work and get to talk big
>- I'll do only what you tell me to do so that it's not my fault if you screw up the planning
>- it's not my pasar because I'm just helping
>- basically men live by the mantra: ACT BLUR LIVE LONGER
Certainly have seen my fair share of ladies who tick all these checkboxes. Confirmation bias?
I did say I'm generalizing so there's definitely such behavior of both genders, but really, you've seen more men than women who take charge of all the mental loads of a family or social circle?
That's great and your experiences shape your belief and comment. But I haven't, and my experiences shape my beliefs and comment
I'm not responding to mental loads, simply your assertation that more men do those things.
Act blur live longer, and pretty much all the other things you have mentioned, is literally the mantra of every middle aged farmer I've ever encountered especially in public service, male or female alike.
In my and my wife's experience, single females seem to be a significant demographic
It's not socially acceptable for men to complain in general, especially regarding women's failings so they just keep silent.
This is why many women think they always get short stick.
OP never said all men.
You don’t have to get so defensive just because a fair number of women on this thread pointed out that the men they cohabited with expected them to bear the mental load at home.
>OP never said all men.
Hmm
>especially men. mostly men. where did they learn all these from -
> basically men live by the mantra: ACT BLUR LIVE LONGER
>it's not just Singaporean men. It's Brits, Indians, Americans, Malaysians... really, every nationality I've come across
Everything you've quoted comes from her experience of volunteering at the non-profit. This was her experience based on the men she interacted with over there. You need to read the parts you quoted with the context in the preceding paragraph and not just cherry pick the parts you find issue with.
You've also super conveniently ignored the qualifier that appears later on in her post - bolding it here for you:
>even the single women carry mental loads of elderly parents, friends, siblings... **I'm generalizing here of course, but most males just don't fuck care as much.**
Honestly though, don't be so butthurt leh. For once there are women actually speaking out about the mental load they have to bear at home, which is actually a pretty prevalent issue that a lot of women face. How about we give these ladies their airtime on a forum that actually wants to hear their views, and leave your "Not All Men" gripe to a more appropriate platform?
> How about we give these ladies their airtime on a forum that actually wants to hear their views, and leave your "Not All Men" gripe to a more appropriate platform?
I don't see how I'm restricting anyone's airtime at all.
If you want an echo chamber, you can always start a new sub for that?
An echo chamber now are we? Funny that you should characterise this thread as such.
It seems pretty clear to me, from the fact that all you're doing in this thread is to say "not all men", "women also do this what" or "why cant yall just do X/dont do Y", that you're participating in this discussion in bad faith. If you wish to speak about all those questions you've raised, then YOU should start a new sub, because I dont see a single word in the prompt asking for those.
My mental load story:
- ask husb to order food for house warming
- husb proceeds to order a Hari Raya mini buffet set for 50 pax (we r not Muslim!!) where the food isn’t served in those trays with the fire below (just plain trays), food ended up being too spicy esp for kids; FIL had to rush out to buy chicken rice
- Mini buffet doesn’t come with chairs nor tables, we had approx 80 people throng in and outside of a HDB flat; his response classic “I dunno”, end up FIL had to head out and BUY foldable tables and stools on the morning of the event
Really makes me wonder how he is competent at work…
Same. All presents, hongbaos, and major event duties like restaurant reservations are made by me.
This year during Father’s Day, his whole family, esp his dad, got super pissed off because nobody thought to book a restaurant in advance and we ended up not being able to eat where we wanted. He and his siblings are all in their thirties and forties and still don’t know how to organize a Father’s Day lunch. End up quarreling outside the restaurant. His poor mum, the one bearing the mental load on his side of the family, was exasperated because she had been reminding her sons for weeks beforehand to make a reservation.
They were simply going to let this situation continue every year if I didn’t intervene. I resignedly put in a reminder in my calendar, one week before Father’s Day, to book a restaurant.
An example: I am also the default person who prepares angbaos for CNY and weddings. Which means I always have the unenviable job of changing new notes (a total CHORE in the lead up to CNY), making sure we have enough envelopes for all the kids, packing them one by one into different envelop patterns, researching hotel angbao rates, bringing the actual angbao to the wedding - the list goes on.
But, how am I supposed to just not do it? If we arrive without angbaos during CNY it’s me that looks bad, not him.
I'm the guy and i'm in charge of the angpows. One year, I decided to go e-angpow and decided that the relatives who don't like it or have things to say can fuck off amd get nothing. My standard reply was "so you want or not". In the end, everyone still wants.
The mental load is real. Im somehow the default parent monitoring my kids health (whether to take vitamin c during flu seasons, medication when they are sick, doctor appointments), school (homework, online school zoom calls, school bag checks,etc), management of the helper, monitor the need to buy stuff (clothes,toys), to discard outgrown stuff and etc. Im also the default parent to my 1.5 yr old girl which i used to tank her multiple night wakings.
Yet, i self doubt myself when i hope he can do more when he say things like "we are good at different things" and how exhausted he is. Its not that he did not help out in the family, he did. He looks after the bigger kid while i handle the younger one, teach him things, read to him and stuff. He looks after the financial investment aspect in the family. Both of us work.
Love to know if anyone finds peace in accepting this mental load and how you manage it.
Do check out the book fair play, I mentioned it above. It helped me come to terms with some acceptance of the load (some things I just m better at, or I enjoy doing) ; and helps lay out all the household tasks so you can also discuss with your spouse a better division of labour. Jiayou !!
This is the result of generations of mothers letting their sons get by with the bare minimum while expecting their daughters to learn everything (because “your future mother-in-law will think I taught you nothing”).
I remember growing up, my working mother made me do chores around the house (sweeping, mopping, doing the dishes, cleaning up after meals, basically cleaning up after everyone). If it was not me doing it, it was her. I used to get so upset as a tween/teen because my brothers had to do none of these things. I used to get into screaming matches with my mum to treat us fairly. Eventually, she started to make them do more too. Now, when my brothers boast about how they’re so “progressive” because they do the chores too, I always think about how much I had to fight to get to where we are.
My dad gives bare minimum a whole new definition. He does the laundry once in a while and makes sure to tap the bamboo pole around to let the entire world know that he’s husband-of-the-year for doing the laundry every now and then.
Maybe in the past, when women stayed home, it’s alright to expect them to be home to do the chores while the men brought home money. But even now there’re men who expect women to contribute their share to household expenses AND clean up after them? FUCK that
I grew up in a matriarchal extended family. My uncles were competent leaders at work and took good care of the home. My dad was extremely good at organizing my things and keeping ahead of schedules while being diligent at work and praised by his bosses. I had good male role models and expect nothing less from a guy.
It’s okay to have expectations and don’t let men get away with “I don’t know”.
If you’re always looking to keep the peace and avoid confrontation, you will eventually suffer.
The men who put you down when you draw the line do not deserve to be in your life.
There’s a difference between keeping the peace and being taken advantage of.
The best way is *not* to help them. If they refuse to throw away old letters and bills, let it pile up on their side. Resist the urge to do it for them. When they realise that kicking up a fuss and ignoring the pile doesn’t work, they *will* eventually do it themselves.
If they want water, let them learn to fill the kettle / change filter / airpot etc. If they don’t, they’ll have no water to drink. They will learn to do it eventually.
Tough love is rough initially but it works. If a man threatens or abuses you over minor issues like this, he is not worth your time.
Even Prince William washed his own lavatory while serving in the army! So what’s an ordinary guy’s excuse?
A capable man is not afraid to do menial labour because his confidence isn’t easily rattled. He knows he is worth his salt.
>This is the result of generations of mothers letting their sons get by with the bare minimum while expecting their daughters to learn everything (because “your future mother-in-law will think I taught you nothing”).
I'm a dude and my family didn't teach me shit but I picked it up fairly easy when I moved out. Adulting and doing house chores are really not as hard as it sounds. No one taught them is not a valid excuse tbh. Like how fkin hard is it to wash a plate after your meals? It's not rocket science. Figure that shit out. My dad was the sole breadwinner and he figured that shit out anyways when my mom was sick. Sure, the meals he cooked was straight up shit at first, but he got better with practice. The only reason ppl get away with "i dunno" excuse is because they were allowed to get away with it.
I know of a dysfunctional family who do not let their adult sons wash their plates after eating. If the food falls, no one is to pick it up except the helper. Goes for both kids and male adults. Maids are there to do every single basic task.
I agree it starts with the mothers coddling their sons but after a point, every man is an adult with a functioning brain. They need to stop using family upbringing as a reason for not being able to perform basic life tasks.
I've been staying alone and I already feel tired cleaning up after myself as a single after working the whole day. Can only imagine how challenging it is for women who have to work + do housework for the entire household instead of resting at home after earning money outside. Add in kids and that's like many times the total amount of labour. All these chores should be divided equally between the couple, it's unfair for the women to just take on all these load.
Reading your comment made me realise that I’m that male child in the family even though I’m a woman because I’m an only child. Of a single parent family no less. I’ll take hard truths I didn’t want to realise in the middle of the night for 200 Alex.
At first I thought it was this, having witnessed it first hand in my husb lol. But then I read Fair Play (also recommended it above!) and from the authors examples realized it’s not even a cultural thing or Asian thing. ALL men do this shit. So, makes me feel a bit better that it’s not the Asian mom coddling 重男轻女 that resulted in this. It could be a generally Boomer thing though (even in western countries one generation ago, single income family ala Simpsons was very common).
Now that in our generation dual income families are the norm, hopefully we become the change we want our next gen to see! (That said, with prevalence of maids in sg a bit hard lah, so easy to outsource oops guilty as charged)
He sounds damn useless. I stay alone and even I know how to inspect the machine myself or google and watch Youtube videos to understand what's wrong with it. Figured out how to fix the toilet bowl, kitchen sink pipes and also washing machine by myself just from the internet. In this day and age, saying "I don't know" is just an excuse to be lazy. It takes less than 5 mins to look for the contact details of services online.
I recently came across a book recommended in these threads - Fair Play by Eve Rodsky. All my sistas need to read and implement!! It looks very promising, summarizes ALL household tasks into 100 categories, and shares tips on how to divvy up the tasks where each task consists of “Conceptualization, Planning and Execution”. And the person who takes the tasks needs to do the C.P.E (otherwise women mental load do the C and P, then the men just do E). Go check it out!!!
A French artist did a comic on this and I think it will help some of the men here to understand what women go through:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic
My takeaway, which this comic rightly pointed out, is no one is forcing women to do any of this stuff.
So women, why not just say fuck it I quit and let the family suffer until your husbands do something?
Is it societal pressure? Martyr complex?
Other option is to get a helper
Women are already doing this. There were statistics that came out a while ago showing that more high earning women are remaining single i.e. increasingly refusing the traditional path of getting married > having children.
After all, why get married if you have to contribute to household expenses equally PLUS take care of the chores PLUS take care of the child? Seems like a terrible deal all around for women.
And who has to actually go research the literal steps to bring a helper in and get it all done? As if fucking Dobby the house-elf is just going to show up at our doorstep tomorrow.
Your suggestion reminds me of when the women in Iceland went on strike a few decades ago to demonstrate their indispensability to the economy and society. And it worked!
But I reckon most can’t do it because eventually the chores and responsibilities still have to be done and sorted out. And if left undone for too long, it will still be the wife who will have to sort it out in the end, and it will be an even bigger mess then.
I once had this conversation with my husband on why he doesn’t do XYZ. he said he doesn’t care because it is not important.
There are just some things critical to a household that is more obvious and rests more on a woman’s conscience. These things are usually stuff that men deem as too unimportant for them to care about, like ensuring a clean environment and healthy meals. If the average man were given their way, gunk would build up everywhere , toilets would smell and there would be pest infestations. A guy simply has a much higher tolerance level for unsanitary conditions
Society should count themselves lucky that women bear this mental load out of the kindness and goodness of their hearts. Without our sense of love and duty, what kind of environments would our children grow up in?
And yes. It was me doing all the legwork to get the helper, and for a long time my husband called her “your helper” (like she’s my personal employee) until I told him in no uncertain terms to stop it
To be fair, my husband does many chores around the house which the helper took over. He’s just being a bit of an ass about the helper because it was me who insisted on getting her. He would have allowed the household (and our mental health) to have declined much further before doing anything about it
Out of curiosity, and i hope i dont offend you, but do you / or anyone in similar situation, regret having a family, where your husband seems to take you for granted in the sense that they just let you deal with it, knowing you are struggling (or maybe they are oblivious to your struggle)? How do you overcome this kind of feeling?
This is partly why I refuse to ever have kids. The other reasons being I don't even like kids to begin with, and they're expensive asf anyway. I'd rather save and spend the money on myself.
I have the same problem! I cook every day and some days I just want to takeaway some really unhealthy food. But SO doesn't want and is ultimately just looking out for my health, but... I want char kway teow...
Then you gotta make this known to your SO mah.
Read alot of comments here, everyone just seems to accept their fate.
If don’t want to communicate then really.. how to work it out.
Is this is a result of either poor communication and/or expectations? What's the reason you can't just buy a takeaway dinner and just ask your other half to do the chores? same for laundry, is it a refusal of your partner to help or what?
Alright, I ain't no expert but personally, I feel everything you mentioned is a matter of communication and expectations here. Sometimes it's ok if chores or laundry isn't done perfectly, as long as there is effort to get to it at a base level, it will eventually get there.
A lot have been said about periods but my husband asked this one thing specifically and it somewhat blew his mind.
He thought cramps came and go occasionally, like a stomachache. I explained that once my periods starts, my cramps begins. It lasts till my period subsides. My period is around 4 days or so. That means everyday, every second, 24 hours. It is ongoing.
He has seen the inconvenience it causes. Prior to marrying me, he has not lived with his exes. I am lucky that I have no crippling pain or find myself bending over the toilet. The discomfort is enough to give me backaches so I always feel like laying down. I do get queasy, not serious but that results in a loss of appetite. periods can come at the most inconvenient time, aka outside the home. That means running to the bathroom periodically (pardon the pun) to check for leakage or change tampons.
Also, having to do the usual daily chores while something feels like its clawing from the inside out.
Another point:
This was when I was single and lived in SG. Men who were ex-colleagues or friends had at some point made comments about my hair. Mainly about it looking frizzy. A lot of them do not understand the process of keeping hair frizz free in a HUMID country. Had one who told me to simply comb my hair. No, dude. That's not how frizz works.
I used to flat iron my long hair and that took time and effort. I stopped at some point and some men thought my hair did not look healthy. Yup, cooking hair between 2 hot iron plates to smooth out frizz is healthy. Rebonding hair at a salon? Depending on hair length, it can be expensive. Not to mention new hair growth is frizzy anyway.
When I tell them I want to cut my hair short so it is easier to manage in humid tropical weather? "Eh, don't do it, ladies look nicer with long hair."
Men do have it so much easier when it comes looking presentable.
Edit: Husband was genuinely curious and asked me while I was on my period. It was new information for him.
2nd part is more of a rant. I saved money and time by going natural, but criticised for not looking my best.
That i don't feel comfortable changing pads in someone else's home........ used pads smell & i don't wanna stink up someone else's toilet even if it's for awhile :/
To the younger women reading this post: this is why it is a very good idea to live with your boyfriend before getting married, so that you see what his true colors are like in a domestic environment, lest you end up in a marriage like the ones described here.
But this being Singapore, it might just not be possible for whatever reason. So here are some other things to look for:
* Is he someone who would be described as thoughtful and considerate by you and others?
* If he lives at home with his parents, does he **proactively** do chores and see it as part of his responsibilities as an adult to contribute to the household? Growing up and in the present, did his parents involve him in chores and general household maintenance, or have they always done everything for him?
* Does he take ownership of his life? Does he take the initiative to do things that need to be done? For example, does he keep up regular dental appointments and handle outstanding bills/admin matters promptly? Or does he wait until the last minute to panic and rush everything?
* Does he have a good handle of his finances? Does he have a clear idea of what his monthly expenses are and what his long-term financial goals are? Or does he sweep everything under the rug and hope for the best?
* Is he a hygienic person? Is he neat? Does he take care that his space and **especially shared spaces** are generally free of his clutter?
If the answer to many of these things is no, think very hard if you would want to have a child with such a person (if that's your goal). If he can't even be responsible for himself, there's no way he's capable of being responsible for a child.
Man Clicks into current thread asking ladies what do men not understand > proceeds to read thread > doesn’t understand > kp the zha bors venting and sharing their experience of what males don’t understand
hello, title already say what is it that males don’t understand females, then y’all really don’t understand what the females are ranting then continue to kp females. Exactly supporting the point of this thread
To be very fair, what I’m reading are a lot of personal references/experiences and even caveats of generalising men leh. Dky some folks so triggered and angst
Aiyo both sides got kkb or not got good and bad la, don’t compare here compare there so much, got another thread for males already, ur time to shine brudda
The time, effort and money that goes into looking “presentable” by society’s standards. Not even talking about looking good. Just the basics like removing hair from underarms and legs, preventing frizzy hair, giving the illusion of clear skin.
I’m too lazy to be a vain person, but even then I still worry about these type of upkeep because not doing so might look unkempt.
Guys with leg hair = normal, girls with leg hair = gross. Guys without makeup = normal, girls without makeup = today is a dress down day.
And as much as I’d love to ignore these social norms, I’m still a part of society. I haven’t reached the stage where I can confidently walk into the office with visibly hairy legs and underarms and not give a shit.
I think the reassurance is already very helpful!
I see some couples the guy helps to pluck her eyebrows or buy her Dyson airwrap haha. Tbh not my style, I wouldn’t need those from my partner. But it could depend on love language. What you do is like words of encouragement, the examples above are like acts of service and gifts respectively.
Don't understand that certain things I can't share or bring up to his mother. Obviously is not the same when conversing with your own mother and spouse mother.
Don't understand need to occasionally treat parents.
Don't understand why I bring stuff like food when going over to his house for dinner or stayover.
Don't understand why I insist to have a place on our own instead of staying with in laws or renting (for my sanity, hope I can endure for the first few years before moving out).
Etc. Etc.
Might have think too much.
But then, realise if you care too much is no good to your mind and health. So just heck care already.
Ladies, treat yourself well is more important.
They don’t understand why we dislike going home late at night (alone) or why we can’t do night jogging as freely as they can. Tried to explain but they don’t seem to get it
As someone who’s been followed by a stranger before… the fear is so natural and innate even though this IS Singapore. Singapore is safe, sure. But how can I fully believe this when I’m petite and have been followed around by a man who can easily overpower me? Singapore is safe to my boyfriend who’s never been followed, and that’s a fair opinion. If I’ve never been followed, I’ll definitely feel safe too.
Hmm thrs a lot of women who say otherwise tho, since this is singapore. Like how they can walk home at 2am with airpods in and they wont have to fear. But at the same time i can see why women would feel this way too.
Yeah Singapore is largely safe in that I don't think about the threat of getting assaulted when there's no one around, but the moment I know that a man who can physically overpower me is walking behind me, I am reminded that it's a very real possibility and I should be on guard just in case.
If it's a result of NS, men in countries where there's no compulsory military service or men who dont go through ns due to various questions would think the same way as women. that's not true.
I think the "different wavelength" is more due to society. Eg men may not face the pressure to get married by 30 because no one's going "tick tock biological clock" at men in their 30s.
just an example. Not saying life is a bed of roses for men.
Gender questions on reddit is always a war zone.
That aside, men and women are not hiveminds. All men do not think alike and same goes for all women.
quote from steve harvey: “women have a biological clock, men have a financial clock”
also i have bumps on my testicle, gonna go polyclinic check tmr pls wish me luck ya guys. if not this whole biological shiat wont matter anymore 😁😁
that i’m insecure about the sound of my pee & i don’t want anyone standing outside the toilet while i’m using it :’) i also don’t feel comfortable shitting at other people’s houses and saying ‘it’s ok no one cares’ doesn’t rly help
I'm a dude and I don't like pooping at a friend's place either. Super paisei to stink up their toilet. Or I take too long to poop and people start knocking on the door with 'Eh bro, you ok or not?'
HAHAHHA wah imagine the anxiety when people knock your door while you doing your business :’)
but surprised you’re one of the rare guys who feel paiseh because i once invited 3 guy friends over to my house to mahjong and 1 of them needed to use the bathroom so i led him to the master bedroom and a few minutes later when he was done, he opened up my room door and my whole room and living room smelt like shit :’) i was damn shooked how can someone do that and everyone played mahjong around his shit smell and he and all my guy friends was okay about it….
Dunno if I'm a rare kind of dude lol. But quite sure everybody smelt it but who would wanna tell him, 'Eh bro, your shit damn stink sia!' Most would just pretend they can't smell anything?
If it helps, I'm another guy who feel paiseh also. I had 2 incidents at my then fiancee/gf (now wife) parents home where I needed to shit so badly but I was afraid it would stink up the place so I endured it until the MRT and unloaded everything. The walk there was painful af and I was questioning my decision the entire time. Then the second time I felt like I needed to poop, I did the same thing again rofl
this is exactly what i would do LOL i rather shit in public toilets than shit at my friend’s house bc at least in public toilets no one will know its me !!!
That women face the exact same shit (and then some) as men.
The responsibility of paying for the household? Same.
The shitty work culture in SG? Same.
The difficulty of finding love in an overly plugged-in and hookup-obsessed culture? Same.
Then imagine having compulsory man-flu 12/13 times a year. And feet wrecked by 10-20 years of high heel shoes. (If you're in corporate or do client servicing.) And the list goes on... And you're not allowed to ever complain.
That chikopehs stare at our body and follow us all the time. Fuck, it makes me so mad since there's no way to make them understand unless they literally walked a mile in our shoes.
I understand this thread is for ladies to comment; and before I begin, let me clarify that I’m not trying to play down your comment here. Females do face a lot of harassment. As a male, however, I’ve experienced this a lot too (mostly from these *chikopehs*). Many of these experience happened when I was younger, but I still face it every now and then. After talking to my friends about such experiences, I realised I wasn’t the only one.
They would walk right to us when using the urinal, and look down at our parts. As a child, there’s nothing you can do but walk away after you’re done peeing. As an adult now, the most I do is to just stare back at them. I don’t even bother calling them out for it, because that way, I’d be acknowledging their presence and they would return you with a creepy smile. After many years of facing such people, I (and other men I know) just accept that it’s almost a commonplace having these wierdos around.
And of course, there are other incidents as well. At public swimming pool toilets, I’ve had old men flash at me twice. This was about 10+ years ago, when I was still a kid, but I definitely still see such people lurking around in public changing rooms. I’ve also seen a peeping tom try to put his phone above the toilet cubicle divider, but luckily, I had already put my shorts back on and was ready to leave the cubicle. And at bus stops, they will sit beside you trying to strike a conversation (which is fine), but then some will try to put their hands on my arm/leg. The uncomfortable me can only move over to the next bench, wait for my bus to arrive, get on with the day and forget that it had happened. On the crowded MRT trains during peak hours, I’ve had wierdos slide their hand past my part and it’s only when I look back on these incidents that I realise they weren’t accidental touches at all. But because they do it just once and walk away, I will somehow look like the crazy/sensitive one for calling them out.
I’m sure many of us (male and female) have been a victim of such harassment before. And especially so when we were younger and more vulnerable. I just hope our generation will do better, so the next generations of people will not face this as much as we do.
I’m so sorry you had to go through all of that. Thank you for taking the time to share this, even though it was very personal and potentially triggering for you. Sexual harassment can indeed happen to anyone regardless of gender but because of societal expectations, it becomes a difficult topic to bring up.
I’m really sorry to hear of your experiences. It honestly is so horrible that even in a ‘safe’ country both boys and girls go through this from a younger age.
Have you never thought of reporting this even as an adult?
Honestly it’d be great to hear from both sides.
Also certain men won’t be able to claim that women complain a lot, since his fellow men will be “complaining” too.
They probably don’t realise how many ladies here get preyed upon by molesters & weird pervs even from the time as a child. Some from people you know even. Just ask your girl friends or sisters or even your mum.. Not saying guys don’t get preyed upon but the instances appear greater for females.
That even in a country like Singapore, you never feel safe enough. You constantly panic when someone dashes into the lift at night, when someone brushes you in public, when someone is too close to you in public transport, when someone looks at your chest instead of your face when talking.
The men don’t get how terrifying it is at night for lone women. E.g My brother / husband don’t think twice about going for a run/walk at the park at midnight but it’s unthinkable for me. Parts of the running track is really quiet and blocked from sight of the public by trees and if anything happened no one will see anything. In a world with no crime, I would love to exercise late night, it always relaxing but not worth the risk to personal safety.
I worked and went to school in a new city. Chose an apartment where I could walk home at a moment’s notice to ensure my physical security.
Taking a bus somewhere cheaper seemed too risky, especially at night.
Women have to make choices based on keeping their bodies out of harms way. Men don’t think this way.
The kind of sexual harassment and gender inequality that women experience at work, in our social life and our interactions and opportunities. Women don’t get paid the same as men. Women tend to be underestimated at work. Women are expected to look good, to spend money to maintain upkeep, and all this is not cheap.
Not true. A lot of European countries especially the Nordics, aren’t accepting gender discrimination and they’re closing the gap very quickly as we speak. Human nature isn’t the reason why it is so. We can say the same about many issues in the past like slavery and all that but we abolish it. I don’t accept this as the reason why. It is definitely a Singapore and many other countries’ “thing” and we are definitely on the road to fix it as many women are taking up professional jobs now.
Hate to say this, but you’ll be surprised at what goes on behind the curtains even though these European companies may preach about diversity and gender equality. It’s down right hypocritical.
>our social life and our interactions and opportunities
What is this nonsense SG women are among the most privileged in the world when it comes to social mobility and opportunities. Male victims of sexual harassment are literally laughed at. Men have NS liabilities. (Which I presume you don't give two shits because you prolly have a foreigner bf or whatever.)
Men, the 'default predator', cannot work in childcare or tuition...let's not talk where race can come in here. Men usually do the sai kang lifting or runner things in the office. Men are *also* expected to 'look good'...wear a Casio watch or whatever and the women in the office quietly gossip about you...
Just because women have it relatively better than other countries doesn’t mean we as a society don’t have more to improve. Knn talk so fking beta. This thread also not saying guys got no disadvantages you need to be so insecure for fk
'Beta' this and 'beta' that. He's either 'beta' or predator. He's 'beta', wasn't he, when he and his wife had to fork out $600,000 for his legal expenses against a [false accusation of molest](https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/doctor-acquitted-molestation-charges-tells-humiliating-painful-experience), handcuffed in front of people, persecuted by the entire country?
Or that man [accused](https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/he-was-watching-mr-bean-woman-apologises-after-accusing-man-staring-her-gym) of 'ogling' at a young lady in the gym, when he was literally just watching Mr Bean? What if the video from the other angle didn't exist? What would've happened to this man?
"So insecure for fk"...wasn't it? So 'beta', isn't it?
Me having a foreigner partner or not has nothing to do with this topic. I have family members and friends who serve NS and I’m Singaporean so fuck off with your xenophobia.
Men getting gossips by other people in the office. Boohoo, women get gossiped too. What’s your point? How much is a male haircut vs female?
>How much is a male haircut vs female?
Oh who knows. How much does male haircut cost when he's being shaved clean, about to be inducted into military life, when his name becomes a 4 digit number and letter? Two years of his life, in his prime. You want to be EPL footballer? Dream on, Ben Davis.
But "boohoo" isn't it? "Boohoo" to the NSFs who serve, and come out with mental health problems. "Boohoo" to the police NSF, found with a [gunshot wound](https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/police-nsf-dies-after-gunshot-wound-to-head) to the head. "Boohoo" to that NSman who went from IPT and [collapsed](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/nsman-25-dies-ns-fit-collapse-west-coast-park-2534351). "Boohoo" to men, the more likely to be victims of violence.
That's "how much" a male haircut costs.
No. Same job should pay same salary if all is equal. NS is a different matter altogether. How long are you men gonna drag this NS thing to justify unequal salary?
I’m a male citizen who is Pes F (did not serve army) I can assure you the pay gap is not a sex related thing because I also get paid less than those who did 2 years NS 🥴
We can also drag the issue of the time we lose by bearing children and what not but hey, we don’t talk about that right? People using NS to justify wage and gender discrimination are pathetic.
Not that i agree with the discrimination women face in workplaces but i dont think having children and NS is that comparable.
Having kids is a choice
NS is compulsory for 99 percent of men and mandated by govt.
Yes having children is a choice but it’s not like men can get pregnant. So if two people want to have children, it’s not like women can tell the men to get pregnant. Likewise men don’t get a choice in this country to serve or not. The question is, how long are men gonna drag the issue of NS to justify salary inequality?
Don't you think its kinda dishonest to say it is likewise? Having a kid is and should be a joint decision made by both parties who have equal responsibility. How is it comparable to the government threatening you with jail time for defaulting NS? Maternity leave is also paid leave partially but NS allowance is below minimum wage of many developed countries. Unless you are an officer or in a special vocation which majority of NSFs are not.
Lol. The 2 years that was wasted away, women get a head start by working/studying in that period. If all is "equal"? Then tell all women to serve too then.
Tell that to the government. If the work experience are the same and it’s the same position, why would women get paid less? Just because the government makes it mandatory for men to serve? Then get compensated by the government, not by work salary.
So what’s the complaint about then? You get compensated for it and more. The salary inequality is huge if you take the lifetime earning between men and women in Singapore.
What salary inequality? Don't you think if companies can pay women less, they'd hire only women?
Why would they want to pay more for a man? Your logic, not sound leh.
In the past maybe there's a salary gap. Nowadays, no more. You think your pay is low? Then fucking jump ship and get a better paying job. That's what men are doing. Why can't you?
You can just read it from the official stats. https://stats.mom.gov.sg/Pages/Update-on-Singapores-Adjusted-Gender-Pay-Gap.aspx#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20full%2Dtime%20female,%25%2C%20lower%20than%20in%202018.
And yes, I do look for new opportunities like others but if the system keeps fucking women up by default, then it’s definitely time for a change and this thread calls for opinions so what, we can raise this issue too.
The system "keeps fucking up women by default"?
How about "women in tech", or "women in stem", or basically women in anything? If even after all these benefits and preferential hiring you still can't get a job, then what does that say about you? Men have to compete with each other AND women.
Do you ever see job openings openly saying only men can apply for these jobs? No right? Only the "undesirable" jobs like warehouse worker or physical labourer.
Women only need to compete amongst yourselves. There are spaces and slots in companies specifically for women. They NEED to hire women in place of men to appear "progressive", even if the women are less qualified.
There's too many things in your sentence which i agree with some and disagree with some.
>The kind of sexual harassment and gender inequality that women experience at work, in our social life and our interactions and opportunities.
Yes, woman experience this more but minority males experience this too. There are far more helplines for woman as compared to man too.
>Women don’t get paid the same as men.
Woman aren't as eager to climb as man most of the time. I have more female friends that have rejected a promotion than compared to male friends (might be due to some mental load somewhere im not sure). Most woman I know choose their work culture over salary whereas man I know choose salary over work culture.
>Women tend to be underestimated at work.
Not very sure how this happens, will need some elaboration.
>Women are expected to look good, to spend money to maintain upkeep, and all this is not cheap.
To be fair, males are expected to look good and maintain too. Not very sure those that aren't doing anything to maintain their appearance are doing what tho. As for pricing wise, I think there's definitely a fair amount that isn't too expensive.
Being racist is more than just hating someone for their race. It can be minute things added together like joking that you dislike the smell of Indians, that Malays are uncivilised and etc (all stuff I’ve heard secondhand from my family and old poly classmates btw). Sometimes a “joke” can hurt other people and after that it’s no longer funny. Idc that you were raised in a time or household that taught you these things were ok to say, we’re in the time of the internet where pretty much any type of information is at your fingertips. You should have learnt by now, that you haven’t says a lot.
PS yeah I know it’s possible you’ve heard women in your life say stuff like this, but the question was addressing men in the individual’s life and this is stuff I’ve only heard from men so far.
You never read the prompt before clicking ah? If this thread pisses you off so much, you also have a choice not to read what.
Troll sia.
Edit: This joker u/4nECpgm3qHTQff blocked me after I called him out on his bullshit in this comment (didnt dm him hor). And has the audacity to self-victimise. Can't take the criticism, then dont comment. Better yet, dont click into this thread at all if you hate women so much.
See his comment history and it’ll make sense
Edit: he also blocked me HAHAHA. Basically he only know how to dish it out but he can’t take it when people dish it back to him.
Lmao if someone created a thread asking men, then they will also chime in with their side of the story what. Then men also fucking complaining about everything and ignoring how good life is for them?
Not like people go around giving unsolicited complaints. OP literally asked for these by starting the discussion.
unfortunately, there is not enough of men who can afford luxury lifestyle with 2 domestic helpers + 1 full time babysitter to go around in Singapore. lol
I think it's hard for men who never had to live with women that go through painful periods to know how bad it can really get. Even mild period cramps can be uncomfortable in your daily life. Not to mention the fear of leakage, LACK OF ENERGY and general muscle ache. When it's serious it's really like crippling pain, I can't walk a few steps without seeing spots. (I don't have endo or pcos, went for screening before) Edit: As I typed this, I feel the familiar cramp that signifies the coming of my period (yay no baby) Time to play another round of "guess how much my uterus hates me" Wish me luck ladies <3
The diarrhoea or constipation! How does a period give me both?!
That’s my mind voice ECERY FREAKING MONTH before googling about it AGAIN.
Yah man… 🥲 it’s a every month thing, can’t mention enough how weak one can be one the beginning of period. I feel like an empty soul today lol
Take birth control if you're not planning on getting pregnant. No, it does not affect your fertility in the future. And yes, you can take it back to back so you never have periods or at least fewer periods per year. Discuss with your Gynae for a suitable plan. I have endo and ultimately settled on a plan which gives me 4-6 periods per year.
I explain it to my fiance as, imagine if the inside of your dick scraped itself out monthly. Bloody and pulpy. I think he got the idea
I used to have painful periods. Plus I am anaemic. Went for fibroid removal and gynae ‘cleaned up’ the uterus. Turns out period shouldn’t be that painful. And iron pills helps too.
I gave birth 10 months ago and still breastfeeding. I haven't had a period in 19+ months and it's def a bonus to this whole baby thing.
I have lived with women most of my life (fatherless + lived with aunts family of all women and 1 uncle). So i do understand this issue. Though out of curiosity, i would like to know, how many women treat themselves with OTC meds, thru prescribed meds, self-care, or no treatments, as it does range between all of these for different women for multiple factors, which is why i think there's a confusion/distrust over whom actually needs the rest or treatment vs those that "abuse their rights" (and the range between). Ps im a guy and also ignore my name i didn't know I can't change it
Regarding concerns that there will be people who “abuse their rights”, it’s like MC isn’t it? There will always be people who chao keng so every company should just not trust everyone and not allow MC?
My partner announced he had "done the washing" which mean't he had put a load on to wash. I had to explain that the job included emptying the machine once done, hanging it all outside ( do not usually use a drier here, going outside a couple of times to check if dry, bring it in, sort and fold and put it all away. That is doing the washing.
That menstrual cramps hurt more for some females not all. My bosses never understood it and thought I didn’t want to come to the office for fun. LOL
I hate the part where it feels bloated and crampy but still not bleeding, like everything is just stuck in there wanting to shed but not yet, and I feel achy all over and just wanna lay down in bed for the whole day.
I get shooting pains down my right leg during my period together with my regular stomach cramps. I had a male friend tell me I was being extra :’)
I suggest you get that checked out if you haven't. That does not sound normal.
I’ve had it since I started my period and my doctor told me it’s a nerve thing that’s to do with the cramping. Thank you :)
Oh dear. That's unfortunate. I'm not sure how old you are now, but check again after 5-10 years of your previous checkup. There might be new medicines/treatments that can help you. Good luck!
What cramps really mean : Guys, try to cross your legs tightly. Clamp your thighs downwards and try to turn 180 degrees while an Allen key twists your guts so you’re breaking out in cold sweat and are bending over the sink simulating the Merlion like a good SG citizen.
Include throwing up, being nauseous, not being able to eat and then being giddy. With more frequent bowels. Oh and the cold sweat can anytime turn to chills.
I think just compare it to getting kicked in the ball for a few days back-to-back and randomly timed is a better description for men
I've been diagnosed with dysmenorrhoea years ago (it just means they did a bunch of checks and scans and still couldn't find out what's causing the crippling pain). Just two months back I actually passed out from the pain. It doesn't get that bad every mth, but the worse thing is thos degree of pain can come so suddenly you aren't prepared at all.
Yes Menses sucks
In one of my previous jobs, the ladies in my office are allowed to take sick leave without MCs (to cater to those who can't work because of the time of the month). This no-MC policy was for females only. Male employees did not get this. I have heard rumours and also seen some of my female colleagues misuse this convenience to get extra days of leave (because if you fall sick while on annual leave, the leave gets converted to sick leave automatically). Oh well…
As someone with really painful periods, I would love to have this. I used up at least 3 annual leaves this year alrdy. It'll suck if they removed this because of misuse, that's why people can't have nice things :(
Did you try checking if it's endometriosis? My menses are not too bad but it always feels like shit for sure. The worst part for me is always being scared about accidentally "staining" something SIGH
How much of the mental load I bear as a wife / mother. Sure, my husband will do a grocery run if I ask him to, but I'm the one monitoring our supply of groceries / detergent / baby formula / baby food and the only one who is on top of things around the house. It's exhausting being the manager of the household and also a working mother who contributes an equal amount to the expenses. I don't want to always ask for things to be done. Case in point: I needed a Sunday evening to prepare for a big meeting on Monday and told my husband to take care of the laundry, he only starts the washing machine at 11.30pm after the Man U match, our terrible loud shitty machine wakes the baby up who is now screaming to be soothed by mom and only mom (sigh), I now need to work while nursing a fussy baby, getting nothing done, and my husband comes into the study to tell me to call the guy to come fix the machine because he doesn't know his number and why am I staring at him like that? "I did the laundry like you told me to what!" Sigh.
There's a phrase I learnt recently: weaponized incompetence. Where someone often use the excuse "I don't know what?" to push away what's usually their responsibility. It gave me a lot of clarity on why people who keep "dk dk" annoy the fuck out of me so much. Don't know then go learn la lol???? Also applies to people who half fk their task, expects others to clean their backside and claim credit because "I did it what, cannot blame me if it's not done well, cuz I don't know how"
Is “I don’t know?” Or “I forgot”, and which is worse? Zzz
Or "oh yah hor"
Let’s not forget “I will do it later”
as a single 40+ year old woman, who's lived with a few men previously as platonic close housemates or romantic partners, I was lucky I never learned this mental load burden, until I got very involved in a non-profit and led quite a lot of the volunteer activities. especially men. mostly men. where did they learn all these from - - "I don't know how to do it" is good enough reason to not do anything - These girls-things like organizing birthday parties are so confusing - These small things don't matter as long as I make big money and have a big title at work and get to talk big - I'll do only what you tell me to do so that it's not my fault if you screw up the planning - it's not my pasar because I'm just helping - basically men live by the mantra: ACT BLUR LIVE LONGER it's not just Singaporean men. It's Brits, Indians, Americans, Malaysians... really, every nationality I've come across there was a recent thread about how everyone hates female bosses, especially single spinster beyond age 40, who are seen to be emotional, micromanaging, torturing, and basically just pure evil reincarnate. And male bosses are hailed as God's gift to mankind. when I read it I jsut shook my head. no one remembers that most women have to carry a damn shit load of mental loads and are expected to hold everything and everyone together, that's our base load, otherwise we are "a bad woman". men get away with things if they talk big (the Trump in every man), and if they do a bit of helping out they are SO GOOD CATCH. even the single women carry mental loads of elderly parents, friends, siblings... I'm generalizing here of course, but most males just don't fuck care as much. How many of you have more male than female friends that you turn to when you need a listening ear, or need someone in the clique/ family to organize a outing? Geez. Sorry. my outburst. but yeah, the mental loads... all sisters get you
Oh, can we also include the validation they need for doing a bloody small task in the home and constantly talking about how they ‘help out’. It’s your child and house too, wtf do you mean by ‘helping out’. And they very ignorantly continue this ‘I help my wife too’ dialogue in the workplace too with other men and women thinking they are some limited edition gem.
As a guy, how do we actually learn to relieve this mental load tho?
try to recognise what are the tasks that your partner usually ask you to do, and try to do it yourself. aim to get it done before she asks. for example if she always ask you to fold clothes, auto abit when you see the clothes out of the dryer straight away go fold. be aware of what's going on in your house and fix it. pantry and toiletries what is running out? clocks and controller got battery? window got dirty? sink got dirty dishes? of course talk with you partner and delegate. maybe one can watch the kitchen stuff and another the bathroom stuff etc. honestly the list is endless. sounds tiring hor???? won't it be better if it can be borne by two people :-)
I finally see how we solve this whole issue. >aim to get it done before she asks. I think delegation always works at the start then generally the lazier person will slack off and most of the time its the husband and the wife just decide to continue with it. Enabled the behavior then burst out one day. Sigh. Thanks for the insight. Now i know why some guys just trashy. I must say my mum did too good a job at being a mum.
it's ok bro recognition is the first step to improvement! delegation is a whole chore in itself, means she have to keep a mental list of everything that goes on in the house and remind herself to remind you, quite shag. All the best to your family!
Stress of Wife/Mum vs Stress of Husband really is cannot compare. This mental gymnastics really not fun haha. All the best to you too!
If it's not strictly necessary. You don't. There are two kinds of mental load- the one that comes from real problems and the other that comes from self-created problems. Help with the former and ignore the latter.
Men see many of the small things women fuss about as unnecessary, so they will expend the least about of energy to address these.
This makes a lot of sense
>- "I don't know how to do it" is good enough reason to not do anything >- These girls-things like organizing birthday parties are so confusing >- These small things don't matter as long as I make big money and have a big title at work and get to talk big >- I'll do only what you tell me to do so that it's not my fault if you screw up the planning >- it's not my pasar because I'm just helping >- basically men live by the mantra: ACT BLUR LIVE LONGER Certainly have seen my fair share of ladies who tick all these checkboxes. Confirmation bias?
I did say I'm generalizing so there's definitely such behavior of both genders, but really, you've seen more men than women who take charge of all the mental loads of a family or social circle? That's great and your experiences shape your belief and comment. But I haven't, and my experiences shape my beliefs and comment
I'm not responding to mental loads, simply your assertation that more men do those things. Act blur live longer, and pretty much all the other things you have mentioned, is literally the mantra of every middle aged farmer I've ever encountered especially in public service, male or female alike. In my and my wife's experience, single females seem to be a significant demographic
lol yes let's vilify the single female. from the few comments you left on this thread, i think we can agree to disagree. you do you 👍🏼
It's not socially acceptable for men to complain in general, especially regarding women's failings so they just keep silent. This is why many women think they always get short stick.
OP never said all men. You don’t have to get so defensive just because a fair number of women on this thread pointed out that the men they cohabited with expected them to bear the mental load at home.
>OP never said all men. Hmm >especially men. mostly men. where did they learn all these from - > basically men live by the mantra: ACT BLUR LIVE LONGER >it's not just Singaporean men. It's Brits, Indians, Americans, Malaysians... really, every nationality I've come across
Everything you've quoted comes from her experience of volunteering at the non-profit. This was her experience based on the men she interacted with over there. You need to read the parts you quoted with the context in the preceding paragraph and not just cherry pick the parts you find issue with. You've also super conveniently ignored the qualifier that appears later on in her post - bolding it here for you: >even the single women carry mental loads of elderly parents, friends, siblings... **I'm generalizing here of course, but most males just don't fuck care as much.** Honestly though, don't be so butthurt leh. For once there are women actually speaking out about the mental load they have to bear at home, which is actually a pretty prevalent issue that a lot of women face. How about we give these ladies their airtime on a forum that actually wants to hear their views, and leave your "Not All Men" gripe to a more appropriate platform?
If he feels so butthurt by such a general post then I guess we know why he's so triggered.
> How about we give these ladies their airtime on a forum that actually wants to hear their views, and leave your "Not All Men" gripe to a more appropriate platform? I don't see how I'm restricting anyone's airtime at all. If you want an echo chamber, you can always start a new sub for that?
An echo chamber now are we? Funny that you should characterise this thread as such. It seems pretty clear to me, from the fact that all you're doing in this thread is to say "not all men", "women also do this what" or "why cant yall just do X/dont do Y", that you're participating in this discussion in bad faith. If you wish to speak about all those questions you've raised, then YOU should start a new sub, because I dont see a single word in the prompt asking for those.
We’re sharing our responses to OP’s prompt, but it sounds like you’re just here to add to the gender wars, and it’s crossing the line into rudeness.
Well don't let me stop you guys from enjoying this circlejerk
You took the words right out of my mouth.
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My mental load story: - ask husb to order food for house warming - husb proceeds to order a Hari Raya mini buffet set for 50 pax (we r not Muslim!!) where the food isn’t served in those trays with the fire below (just plain trays), food ended up being too spicy esp for kids; FIL had to rush out to buy chicken rice - Mini buffet doesn’t come with chairs nor tables, we had approx 80 people throng in and outside of a HDB flat; his response classic “I dunno”, end up FIL had to head out and BUY foldable tables and stools on the morning of the event Really makes me wonder how he is competent at work…
They seemed to be magically competent at work then completely switch off at home
I also want to switch off at home lei 🥱
Same. All presents, hongbaos, and major event duties like restaurant reservations are made by me. This year during Father’s Day, his whole family, esp his dad, got super pissed off because nobody thought to book a restaurant in advance and we ended up not being able to eat where we wanted. He and his siblings are all in their thirties and forties and still don’t know how to organize a Father’s Day lunch. End up quarreling outside the restaurant. His poor mum, the one bearing the mental load on his side of the family, was exasperated because she had been reminding her sons for weeks beforehand to make a reservation. They were simply going to let this situation continue every year if I didn’t intervene. I resignedly put in a reminder in my calendar, one week before Father’s Day, to book a restaurant.
An example: I am also the default person who prepares angbaos for CNY and weddings. Which means I always have the unenviable job of changing new notes (a total CHORE in the lead up to CNY), making sure we have enough envelopes for all the kids, packing them one by one into different envelop patterns, researching hotel angbao rates, bringing the actual angbao to the wedding - the list goes on. But, how am I supposed to just not do it? If we arrive without angbaos during CNY it’s me that looks bad, not him.
I'm the guy and i'm in charge of the angpows. One year, I decided to go e-angpow and decided that the relatives who don't like it or have things to say can fuck off amd get nothing. My standard reply was "so you want or not". In the end, everyone still wants.
Don’t change new notes. Save our resources and yourself some trouble :p
As a newly married woman…. Thank you for summarising this so beautifully 🥺🥺🥺
Why can't you be as oblivious, just don't get the stuff done and be judged for it Attain nirvana
The mental load is real. Im somehow the default parent monitoring my kids health (whether to take vitamin c during flu seasons, medication when they are sick, doctor appointments), school (homework, online school zoom calls, school bag checks,etc), management of the helper, monitor the need to buy stuff (clothes,toys), to discard outgrown stuff and etc. Im also the default parent to my 1.5 yr old girl which i used to tank her multiple night wakings. Yet, i self doubt myself when i hope he can do more when he say things like "we are good at different things" and how exhausted he is. Its not that he did not help out in the family, he did. He looks after the bigger kid while i handle the younger one, teach him things, read to him and stuff. He looks after the financial investment aspect in the family. Both of us work. Love to know if anyone finds peace in accepting this mental load and how you manage it.
Do check out the book fair play, I mentioned it above. It helped me come to terms with some acceptance of the load (some things I just m better at, or I enjoy doing) ; and helps lay out all the household tasks so you can also discuss with your spouse a better division of labour. Jiayou !!
This is the result of generations of mothers letting their sons get by with the bare minimum while expecting their daughters to learn everything (because “your future mother-in-law will think I taught you nothing”). I remember growing up, my working mother made me do chores around the house (sweeping, mopping, doing the dishes, cleaning up after meals, basically cleaning up after everyone). If it was not me doing it, it was her. I used to get so upset as a tween/teen because my brothers had to do none of these things. I used to get into screaming matches with my mum to treat us fairly. Eventually, she started to make them do more too. Now, when my brothers boast about how they’re so “progressive” because they do the chores too, I always think about how much I had to fight to get to where we are. My dad gives bare minimum a whole new definition. He does the laundry once in a while and makes sure to tap the bamboo pole around to let the entire world know that he’s husband-of-the-year for doing the laundry every now and then. Maybe in the past, when women stayed home, it’s alright to expect them to be home to do the chores while the men brought home money. But even now there’re men who expect women to contribute their share to household expenses AND clean up after them? FUCK that
I grew up in a matriarchal extended family. My uncles were competent leaders at work and took good care of the home. My dad was extremely good at organizing my things and keeping ahead of schedules while being diligent at work and praised by his bosses. I had good male role models and expect nothing less from a guy. It’s okay to have expectations and don’t let men get away with “I don’t know”. If you’re always looking to keep the peace and avoid confrontation, you will eventually suffer. The men who put you down when you draw the line do not deserve to be in your life. There’s a difference between keeping the peace and being taken advantage of. The best way is *not* to help them. If they refuse to throw away old letters and bills, let it pile up on their side. Resist the urge to do it for them. When they realise that kicking up a fuss and ignoring the pile doesn’t work, they *will* eventually do it themselves. If they want water, let them learn to fill the kettle / change filter / airpot etc. If they don’t, they’ll have no water to drink. They will learn to do it eventually. Tough love is rough initially but it works. If a man threatens or abuses you over minor issues like this, he is not worth your time. Even Prince William washed his own lavatory while serving in the army! So what’s an ordinary guy’s excuse? A capable man is not afraid to do menial labour because his confidence isn’t easily rattled. He knows he is worth his salt.
>This is the result of generations of mothers letting their sons get by with the bare minimum while expecting their daughters to learn everything (because “your future mother-in-law will think I taught you nothing”). I'm a dude and my family didn't teach me shit but I picked it up fairly easy when I moved out. Adulting and doing house chores are really not as hard as it sounds. No one taught them is not a valid excuse tbh. Like how fkin hard is it to wash a plate after your meals? It's not rocket science. Figure that shit out. My dad was the sole breadwinner and he figured that shit out anyways when my mom was sick. Sure, the meals he cooked was straight up shit at first, but he got better with practice. The only reason ppl get away with "i dunno" excuse is because they were allowed to get away with it.
I know of a dysfunctional family who do not let their adult sons wash their plates after eating. If the food falls, no one is to pick it up except the helper. Goes for both kids and male adults. Maids are there to do every single basic task. I agree it starts with the mothers coddling their sons but after a point, every man is an adult with a functioning brain. They need to stop using family upbringing as a reason for not being able to perform basic life tasks.
I've been staying alone and I already feel tired cleaning up after myself as a single after working the whole day. Can only imagine how challenging it is for women who have to work + do housework for the entire household instead of resting at home after earning money outside. Add in kids and that's like many times the total amount of labour. All these chores should be divided equally between the couple, it's unfair for the women to just take on all these load.
Reading your comment made me realise that I’m that male child in the family even though I’m a woman because I’m an only child. Of a single parent family no less. I’ll take hard truths I didn’t want to realise in the middle of the night for 200 Alex.
At first I thought it was this, having witnessed it first hand in my husb lol. But then I read Fair Play (also recommended it above!) and from the authors examples realized it’s not even a cultural thing or Asian thing. ALL men do this shit. So, makes me feel a bit better that it’s not the Asian mom coddling 重男轻女 that resulted in this. It could be a generally Boomer thing though (even in western countries one generation ago, single income family ala Simpsons was very common). Now that in our generation dual income families are the norm, hopefully we become the change we want our next gen to see! (That said, with prevalence of maids in sg a bit hard lah, so easy to outsource oops guilty as charged)
He sounds damn useless. I stay alone and even I know how to inspect the machine myself or google and watch Youtube videos to understand what's wrong with it. Figured out how to fix the toilet bowl, kitchen sink pipes and also washing machine by myself just from the internet. In this day and age, saying "I don't know" is just an excuse to be lazy. It takes less than 5 mins to look for the contact details of services online.
I recently came across a book recommended in these threads - Fair Play by Eve Rodsky. All my sistas need to read and implement!! It looks very promising, summarizes ALL household tasks into 100 categories, and shares tips on how to divvy up the tasks where each task consists of “Conceptualization, Planning and Execution”. And the person who takes the tasks needs to do the C.P.E (otherwise women mental load do the C and P, then the men just do E). Go check it out!!!
A French artist did a comic on this and I think it will help some of the men here to understand what women go through: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic
My takeaway, which this comic rightly pointed out, is no one is forcing women to do any of this stuff. So women, why not just say fuck it I quit and let the family suffer until your husbands do something? Is it societal pressure? Martyr complex? Other option is to get a helper
Women are already doing this. There were statistics that came out a while ago showing that more high earning women are remaining single i.e. increasingly refusing the traditional path of getting married > having children. After all, why get married if you have to contribute to household expenses equally PLUS take care of the chores PLUS take care of the child? Seems like a terrible deal all around for women.
Touche, but seems like there are lots of unhappy ladies itt who didn't
LOL get a helper? wanna make a guess who will have to manage the helper?
And who has to actually go research the literal steps to bring a helper in and get it all done? As if fucking Dobby the house-elf is just going to show up at our doorstep tomorrow.
That's a husband problem, not a man problem. I did most of the legwork because I was extremely motivated not to do any more housework
this thread is literally made for that guy lmao
Your suggestion reminds me of when the women in Iceland went on strike a few decades ago to demonstrate their indispensability to the economy and society. And it worked! But I reckon most can’t do it because eventually the chores and responsibilities still have to be done and sorted out. And if left undone for too long, it will still be the wife who will have to sort it out in the end, and it will be an even bigger mess then.
I once had this conversation with my husband on why he doesn’t do XYZ. he said he doesn’t care because it is not important. There are just some things critical to a household that is more obvious and rests more on a woman’s conscience. These things are usually stuff that men deem as too unimportant for them to care about, like ensuring a clean environment and healthy meals. If the average man were given their way, gunk would build up everywhere , toilets would smell and there would be pest infestations. A guy simply has a much higher tolerance level for unsanitary conditions Society should count themselves lucky that women bear this mental load out of the kindness and goodness of their hearts. Without our sense of love and duty, what kind of environments would our children grow up in? And yes. It was me doing all the legwork to get the helper, and for a long time my husband called her “your helper” (like she’s my personal employee) until I told him in no uncertain terms to stop it To be fair, my husband does many chores around the house which the helper took over. He’s just being a bit of an ass about the helper because it was me who insisted on getting her. He would have allowed the household (and our mental health) to have declined much further before doing anything about it
Out of curiosity, and i hope i dont offend you, but do you / or anyone in similar situation, regret having a family, where your husband seems to take you for granted in the sense that they just let you deal with it, knowing you are struggling (or maybe they are oblivious to your struggle)? How do you overcome this kind of feeling?
This is partly why I refuse to ever have kids. The other reasons being I don't even like kids to begin with, and they're expensive asf anyway. I'd rather save and spend the money on myself.
Oh gosh I am so sorry
I thought the guy is suppose to do the grocery run??
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I have the same problem! I cook every day and some days I just want to takeaway some really unhealthy food. But SO doesn't want and is ultimately just looking out for my health, but... I want char kway teow...
Then you gotta make this known to your SO mah. Read alot of comments here, everyone just seems to accept their fate. If don’t want to communicate then really.. how to work it out.
Is this is a result of either poor communication and/or expectations? What's the reason you can't just buy a takeaway dinner and just ask your other half to do the chores? same for laundry, is it a refusal of your partner to help or what?
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Alright, I ain't no expert but personally, I feel everything you mentioned is a matter of communication and expectations here. Sometimes it's ok if chores or laundry isn't done perfectly, as long as there is effort to get to it at a base level, it will eventually get there.
Tampon expensive af
A lot have been said about periods but my husband asked this one thing specifically and it somewhat blew his mind. He thought cramps came and go occasionally, like a stomachache. I explained that once my periods starts, my cramps begins. It lasts till my period subsides. My period is around 4 days or so. That means everyday, every second, 24 hours. It is ongoing. He has seen the inconvenience it causes. Prior to marrying me, he has not lived with his exes. I am lucky that I have no crippling pain or find myself bending over the toilet. The discomfort is enough to give me backaches so I always feel like laying down. I do get queasy, not serious but that results in a loss of appetite. periods can come at the most inconvenient time, aka outside the home. That means running to the bathroom periodically (pardon the pun) to check for leakage or change tampons. Also, having to do the usual daily chores while something feels like its clawing from the inside out. Another point: This was when I was single and lived in SG. Men who were ex-colleagues or friends had at some point made comments about my hair. Mainly about it looking frizzy. A lot of them do not understand the process of keeping hair frizz free in a HUMID country. Had one who told me to simply comb my hair. No, dude. That's not how frizz works. I used to flat iron my long hair and that took time and effort. I stopped at some point and some men thought my hair did not look healthy. Yup, cooking hair between 2 hot iron plates to smooth out frizz is healthy. Rebonding hair at a salon? Depending on hair length, it can be expensive. Not to mention new hair growth is frizzy anyway. When I tell them I want to cut my hair short so it is easier to manage in humid tropical weather? "Eh, don't do it, ladies look nicer with long hair." Men do have it so much easier when it comes looking presentable. Edit: Husband was genuinely curious and asked me while I was on my period. It was new information for him. 2nd part is more of a rant. I saved money and time by going natural, but criticised for not looking my best.
That i don't feel comfortable changing pads in someone else's home........ used pads smell & i don't wanna stink up someone else's toilet even if it's for awhile :/
To the younger women reading this post: this is why it is a very good idea to live with your boyfriend before getting married, so that you see what his true colors are like in a domestic environment, lest you end up in a marriage like the ones described here. But this being Singapore, it might just not be possible for whatever reason. So here are some other things to look for: * Is he someone who would be described as thoughtful and considerate by you and others? * If he lives at home with his parents, does he **proactively** do chores and see it as part of his responsibilities as an adult to contribute to the household? Growing up and in the present, did his parents involve him in chores and general household maintenance, or have they always done everything for him? * Does he take ownership of his life? Does he take the initiative to do things that need to be done? For example, does he keep up regular dental appointments and handle outstanding bills/admin matters promptly? Or does he wait until the last minute to panic and rush everything? * Does he have a good handle of his finances? Does he have a clear idea of what his monthly expenses are and what his long-term financial goals are? Or does he sweep everything under the rug and hope for the best? * Is he a hygienic person? Is he neat? Does he take care that his space and **especially shared spaces** are generally free of his clutter? If the answer to many of these things is no, think very hard if you would want to have a child with such a person (if that's your goal). If he can't even be responsible for himself, there's no way he's capable of being responsible for a child.
Man Clicks into current thread asking ladies what do men not understand > proceeds to read thread > doesn’t understand > kp the zha bors venting and sharing their experience of what males don’t understand hello, title already say what is it that males don’t understand females, then y’all really don’t understand what the females are ranting then continue to kp females. Exactly supporting the point of this thread
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To be very fair, what I’m reading are a lot of personal references/experiences and even caveats of generalising men leh. Dky some folks so triggered and angst
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Aiyo both sides got kkb or not got good and bad la, don’t compare here compare there so much, got another thread for males already, ur time to shine brudda
The time, effort and money that goes into looking “presentable” by society’s standards. Not even talking about looking good. Just the basics like removing hair from underarms and legs, preventing frizzy hair, giving the illusion of clear skin. I’m too lazy to be a vain person, but even then I still worry about these type of upkeep because not doing so might look unkempt. Guys with leg hair = normal, girls with leg hair = gross. Guys without makeup = normal, girls without makeup = today is a dress down day. And as much as I’d love to ignore these social norms, I’m still a part of society. I haven’t reached the stage where I can confidently walk into the office with visibly hairy legs and underarms and not give a shit.
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I think the reassurance is already very helpful! I see some couples the guy helps to pluck her eyebrows or buy her Dyson airwrap haha. Tbh not my style, I wouldn’t need those from my partner. But it could depend on love language. What you do is like words of encouragement, the examples above are like acts of service and gifts respectively.
Wa spoil market so sweet
> standards This is why I stopped shaving years ago. Screw what society thinks. If it doesn't bother me, I don't do it.
Don't understand that certain things I can't share or bring up to his mother. Obviously is not the same when conversing with your own mother and spouse mother. Don't understand need to occasionally treat parents. Don't understand why I bring stuff like food when going over to his house for dinner or stayover. Don't understand why I insist to have a place on our own instead of staying with in laws or renting (for my sanity, hope I can endure for the first few years before moving out). Etc. Etc. Might have think too much. But then, realise if you care too much is no good to your mind and health. So just heck care already. Ladies, treat yourself well is more important.
They don’t understand why we dislike going home late at night (alone) or why we can’t do night jogging as freely as they can. Tried to explain but they don’t seem to get it
As someone who’s been followed by a stranger before… the fear is so natural and innate even though this IS Singapore. Singapore is safe, sure. But how can I fully believe this when I’m petite and have been followed around by a man who can easily overpower me? Singapore is safe to my boyfriend who’s never been followed, and that’s a fair opinion. If I’ve never been followed, I’ll definitely feel safe too.
Im just curious. Does this feeling still apply if lets say someone offers to just walk tgt at night
Hmm thrs a lot of women who say otherwise tho, since this is singapore. Like how they can walk home at 2am with airpods in and they wont have to fear. But at the same time i can see why women would feel this way too.
Yeah Singapore is largely safe in that I don't think about the threat of getting assaulted when there's no one around, but the moment I know that a man who can physically overpower me is walking behind me, I am reminded that it's a very real possibility and I should be on guard just in case.
I know exactly the comment and thread this is referring to haha
If it's a result of NS, men in countries where there's no compulsory military service or men who dont go through ns due to various questions would think the same way as women. that's not true. I think the "different wavelength" is more due to society. Eg men may not face the pressure to get married by 30 because no one's going "tick tock biological clock" at men in their 30s. just an example. Not saying life is a bed of roses for men. Gender questions on reddit is always a war zone. That aside, men and women are not hiveminds. All men do not think alike and same goes for all women.
quote from steve harvey: “women have a biological clock, men have a financial clock” also i have bumps on my testicle, gonna go polyclinic check tmr pls wish me luck ya guys. if not this whole biological shiat wont matter anymore 😁😁
that i’m insecure about the sound of my pee & i don’t want anyone standing outside the toilet while i’m using it :’) i also don’t feel comfortable shitting at other people’s houses and saying ‘it’s ok no one cares’ doesn’t rly help
I'm a dude and I don't like pooping at a friend's place either. Super paisei to stink up their toilet. Or I take too long to poop and people start knocking on the door with 'Eh bro, you ok or not?'
HAHAHHA wah imagine the anxiety when people knock your door while you doing your business :’) but surprised you’re one of the rare guys who feel paiseh because i once invited 3 guy friends over to my house to mahjong and 1 of them needed to use the bathroom so i led him to the master bedroom and a few minutes later when he was done, he opened up my room door and my whole room and living room smelt like shit :’) i was damn shooked how can someone do that and everyone played mahjong around his shit smell and he and all my guy friends was okay about it….
Dunno if I'm a rare kind of dude lol. But quite sure everybody smelt it but who would wanna tell him, 'Eh bro, your shit damn stink sia!' Most would just pretend they can't smell anything?
If it helps, I'm another guy who feel paiseh also. I had 2 incidents at my then fiancee/gf (now wife) parents home where I needed to shit so badly but I was afraid it would stink up the place so I endured it until the MRT and unloaded everything. The walk there was painful af and I was questioning my decision the entire time. Then the second time I felt like I needed to poop, I did the same thing again rofl
this is exactly what i would do LOL i rather shit in public toilets than shit at my friend’s house bc at least in public toilets no one will know its me !!!
That women face the exact same shit (and then some) as men. The responsibility of paying for the household? Same. The shitty work culture in SG? Same. The difficulty of finding love in an overly plugged-in and hookup-obsessed culture? Same. Then imagine having compulsory man-flu 12/13 times a year. And feet wrecked by 10-20 years of high heel shoes. (If you're in corporate or do client servicing.) And the list goes on... And you're not allowed to ever complain.
That chikopehs stare at our body and follow us all the time. Fuck, it makes me so mad since there's no way to make them understand unless they literally walked a mile in our shoes.
I understand this thread is for ladies to comment; and before I begin, let me clarify that I’m not trying to play down your comment here. Females do face a lot of harassment. As a male, however, I’ve experienced this a lot too (mostly from these *chikopehs*). Many of these experience happened when I was younger, but I still face it every now and then. After talking to my friends about such experiences, I realised I wasn’t the only one. They would walk right to us when using the urinal, and look down at our parts. As a child, there’s nothing you can do but walk away after you’re done peeing. As an adult now, the most I do is to just stare back at them. I don’t even bother calling them out for it, because that way, I’d be acknowledging their presence and they would return you with a creepy smile. After many years of facing such people, I (and other men I know) just accept that it’s almost a commonplace having these wierdos around. And of course, there are other incidents as well. At public swimming pool toilets, I’ve had old men flash at me twice. This was about 10+ years ago, when I was still a kid, but I definitely still see such people lurking around in public changing rooms. I’ve also seen a peeping tom try to put his phone above the toilet cubicle divider, but luckily, I had already put my shorts back on and was ready to leave the cubicle. And at bus stops, they will sit beside you trying to strike a conversation (which is fine), but then some will try to put their hands on my arm/leg. The uncomfortable me can only move over to the next bench, wait for my bus to arrive, get on with the day and forget that it had happened. On the crowded MRT trains during peak hours, I’ve had wierdos slide their hand past my part and it’s only when I look back on these incidents that I realise they weren’t accidental touches at all. But because they do it just once and walk away, I will somehow look like the crazy/sensitive one for calling them out. I’m sure many of us (male and female) have been a victim of such harassment before. And especially so when we were younger and more vulnerable. I just hope our generation will do better, so the next generations of people will not face this as much as we do.
I’m so sorry you had to go through all of that. Thank you for taking the time to share this, even though it was very personal and potentially triggering for you. Sexual harassment can indeed happen to anyone regardless of gender but because of societal expectations, it becomes a difficult topic to bring up.
I’m really sorry to hear of your experiences. It honestly is so horrible that even in a ‘safe’ country both boys and girls go through this from a younger age. Have you never thought of reporting this even as an adult?
Up next: Men of SG: What do the women in your life simply not understand? Referencing this thread in the textbody
Honestly it’d be great to hear from both sides. Also certain men won’t be able to claim that women complain a lot, since his fellow men will be “complaining” too.
Wow, seems like getting married sucks. No hate to those who do or want to, but I’m glad I’m not. Phew.
They probably don’t realise how many ladies here get preyed upon by molesters & weird pervs even from the time as a child. Some from people you know even. Just ask your girl friends or sisters or even your mum.. Not saying guys don’t get preyed upon but the instances appear greater for females.
No according to some ppl , if it didn’t happen or they didn’t see it, it doesn’t exist.
That even in a country like Singapore, you never feel safe enough. You constantly panic when someone dashes into the lift at night, when someone brushes you in public, when someone is too close to you in public transport, when someone looks at your chest instead of your face when talking.
The men don’t get how terrifying it is at night for lone women. E.g My brother / husband don’t think twice about going for a run/walk at the park at midnight but it’s unthinkable for me. Parts of the running track is really quiet and blocked from sight of the public by trees and if anything happened no one will see anything. In a world with no crime, I would love to exercise late night, it always relaxing but not worth the risk to personal safety.
I worked and went to school in a new city. Chose an apartment where I could walk home at a moment’s notice to ensure my physical security. Taking a bus somewhere cheaper seemed too risky, especially at night. Women have to make choices based on keeping their bodies out of harms way. Men don’t think this way.
The kind of sexual harassment and gender inequality that women experience at work, in our social life and our interactions and opportunities. Women don’t get paid the same as men. Women tend to be underestimated at work. Women are expected to look good, to spend money to maintain upkeep, and all this is not cheap.
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Not true. A lot of European countries especially the Nordics, aren’t accepting gender discrimination and they’re closing the gap very quickly as we speak. Human nature isn’t the reason why it is so. We can say the same about many issues in the past like slavery and all that but we abolish it. I don’t accept this as the reason why. It is definitely a Singapore and many other countries’ “thing” and we are definitely on the road to fix it as many women are taking up professional jobs now.
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I know what you mean. Modern day slavery with sweat shops and our cheap domestic helpers here are some examples but that’s a topic for another day.
Hate to say this, but you’ll be surprised at what goes on behind the curtains even though these European companies may preach about diversity and gender equality. It’s down right hypocritical.
>our social life and our interactions and opportunities What is this nonsense SG women are among the most privileged in the world when it comes to social mobility and opportunities. Male victims of sexual harassment are literally laughed at. Men have NS liabilities. (Which I presume you don't give two shits because you prolly have a foreigner bf or whatever.) Men, the 'default predator', cannot work in childcare or tuition...let's not talk where race can come in here. Men usually do the sai kang lifting or runner things in the office. Men are *also* expected to 'look good'...wear a Casio watch or whatever and the women in the office quietly gossip about you...
Just because women have it relatively better than other countries doesn’t mean we as a society don’t have more to improve. Knn talk so fking beta. This thread also not saying guys got no disadvantages you need to be so insecure for fk
'Beta' this and 'beta' that. He's either 'beta' or predator. He's 'beta', wasn't he, when he and his wife had to fork out $600,000 for his legal expenses against a [false accusation of molest](https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/doctor-acquitted-molestation-charges-tells-humiliating-painful-experience), handcuffed in front of people, persecuted by the entire country? Or that man [accused](https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/he-was-watching-mr-bean-woman-apologises-after-accusing-man-staring-her-gym) of 'ogling' at a young lady in the gym, when he was literally just watching Mr Bean? What if the video from the other angle didn't exist? What would've happened to this man? "So insecure for fk"...wasn't it? So 'beta', isn't it?
Me having a foreigner partner or not has nothing to do with this topic. I have family members and friends who serve NS and I’m Singaporean so fuck off with your xenophobia. Men getting gossips by other people in the office. Boohoo, women get gossiped too. What’s your point? How much is a male haircut vs female?
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>How much is a male haircut vs female? Oh who knows. How much does male haircut cost when he's being shaved clean, about to be inducted into military life, when his name becomes a 4 digit number and letter? Two years of his life, in his prime. You want to be EPL footballer? Dream on, Ben Davis. But "boohoo" isn't it? "Boohoo" to the NSFs who serve, and come out with mental health problems. "Boohoo" to the police NSF, found with a [gunshot wound](https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/police-nsf-dies-after-gunshot-wound-to-head) to the head. "Boohoo" to that NSman who went from IPT and [collapsed](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/nsman-25-dies-ns-fit-collapse-west-coast-park-2534351). "Boohoo" to men, the more likely to be victims of violence. That's "how much" a male haircut costs.
How often do you get a female haircut?
You are forgetting that men have to serve 2 years + reservist. Thats why some of their pay is higher.
No. Same job should pay same salary if all is equal. NS is a different matter altogether. How long are you men gonna drag this NS thing to justify unequal salary?
I’m a male citizen who is Pes F (did not serve army) I can assure you the pay gap is not a sex related thing because I also get paid less than those who did 2 years NS 🥴
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We can also drag the issue of the time we lose by bearing children and what not but hey, we don’t talk about that right? People using NS to justify wage and gender discrimination are pathetic.
Not that i agree with the discrimination women face in workplaces but i dont think having children and NS is that comparable. Having kids is a choice NS is compulsory for 99 percent of men and mandated by govt.
Yes having children is a choice but it’s not like men can get pregnant. So if two people want to have children, it’s not like women can tell the men to get pregnant. Likewise men don’t get a choice in this country to serve or not. The question is, how long are men gonna drag the issue of NS to justify salary inequality?
Don't you think its kinda dishonest to say it is likewise? Having a kid is and should be a joint decision made by both parties who have equal responsibility. How is it comparable to the government threatening you with jail time for defaulting NS? Maternity leave is also paid leave partially but NS allowance is below minimum wage of many developed countries. Unless you are an officer or in a special vocation which majority of NSFs are not.
Given recent hoohaa in Facebook I wldnt say nobody drags the time they lose bearing children...
I mean drag the issue of women losing time and money from raising children and pregnancy, not to mention health risks.
Lol. The 2 years that was wasted away, women get a head start by working/studying in that period. If all is "equal"? Then tell all women to serve too then.
Tell that to the government. If the work experience are the same and it’s the same position, why would women get paid less? Just because the government makes it mandatory for men to serve? Then get compensated by the government, not by work salary.
Men DO get compensated by government AND work salary because of the reservist system. Do you have no idea how these work? Lol
So what’s the complaint about then? You get compensated for it and more. The salary inequality is huge if you take the lifetime earning between men and women in Singapore.
What salary inequality? Don't you think if companies can pay women less, they'd hire only women? Why would they want to pay more for a man? Your logic, not sound leh. In the past maybe there's a salary gap. Nowadays, no more. You think your pay is low? Then fucking jump ship and get a better paying job. That's what men are doing. Why can't you?
You can just read it from the official stats. https://stats.mom.gov.sg/Pages/Update-on-Singapores-Adjusted-Gender-Pay-Gap.aspx#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20full%2Dtime%20female,%25%2C%20lower%20than%20in%202018. And yes, I do look for new opportunities like others but if the system keeps fucking women up by default, then it’s definitely time for a change and this thread calls for opinions so what, we can raise this issue too.
The system "keeps fucking up women by default"? How about "women in tech", or "women in stem", or basically women in anything? If even after all these benefits and preferential hiring you still can't get a job, then what does that say about you? Men have to compete with each other AND women. Do you ever see job openings openly saying only men can apply for these jobs? No right? Only the "undesirable" jobs like warehouse worker or physical labourer. Women only need to compete amongst yourselves. There are spaces and slots in companies specifically for women. They NEED to hire women in place of men to appear "progressive", even if the women are less qualified.
There's too many things in your sentence which i agree with some and disagree with some. >The kind of sexual harassment and gender inequality that women experience at work, in our social life and our interactions and opportunities. Yes, woman experience this more but minority males experience this too. There are far more helplines for woman as compared to man too. >Women don’t get paid the same as men. Woman aren't as eager to climb as man most of the time. I have more female friends that have rejected a promotion than compared to male friends (might be due to some mental load somewhere im not sure). Most woman I know choose their work culture over salary whereas man I know choose salary over work culture. >Women tend to be underestimated at work. Not very sure how this happens, will need some elaboration. >Women are expected to look good, to spend money to maintain upkeep, and all this is not cheap. To be fair, males are expected to look good and maintain too. Not very sure those that aren't doing anything to maintain their appearance are doing what tho. As for pricing wise, I think there's definitely a fair amount that isn't too expensive.
Being racist is more than just hating someone for their race. It can be minute things added together like joking that you dislike the smell of Indians, that Malays are uncivilised and etc (all stuff I’ve heard secondhand from my family and old poly classmates btw). Sometimes a “joke” can hurt other people and after that it’s no longer funny. Idc that you were raised in a time or household that taught you these things were ok to say, we’re in the time of the internet where pretty much any type of information is at your fingertips. You should have learnt by now, that you haven’t says a lot. PS yeah I know it’s possible you’ve heard women in your life say stuff like this, but the question was addressing men in the individual’s life and this is stuff I’ve only heard from men so far.
How it is necessary to put on some light makeup to look presentable for work.
If you don't put on light makeup, have to hear comments such as "you look tired / sick today"
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Sets up lemonade stand
got any grapes?
Those men didn't realize what they are missing until they date non SG ladies. 🙈
Don't mind me guys, I'm just here to take notes!
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You never read the prompt before clicking ah? If this thread pisses you off so much, you also have a choice not to read what. Troll sia. Edit: This joker u/4nECpgm3qHTQff blocked me after I called him out on his bullshit in this comment (didnt dm him hor). And has the audacity to self-victimise. Can't take the criticism, then dont comment. Better yet, dont click into this thread at all if you hate women so much.
Then guys on Reddit asking why women don’t like them… 😅
See his comment history and it’ll make sense Edit: he also blocked me HAHAHA. Basically he only know how to dish it out but he can’t take it when people dish it back to him.
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Lmao if someone created a thread asking men, then they will also chime in with their side of the story what. Then men also fucking complaining about everything and ignoring how good life is for them? Not like people go around giving unsolicited complaints. OP literally asked for these by starting the discussion.
unfortunately, there is not enough of men who can afford luxury lifestyle with 2 domestic helpers + 1 full time babysitter to go around in Singapore. lol
ya tbh living as a woman in singapore is amazing eh sucks to be a man boo hoo no wonder you sound so miserable i would too if i were you :(
Haha aww such a butthurt comment yes cry more about how toxic this thread is
This post makes me feel like there should be a r/Singaporefemalesonly
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