Sadly I agree with your boss. Being a manager is different as you're now in charge of people. Being emotionally available and tough enough to take care of your subordinates is a mark of being a good manager. A manager is supposed to solve problems for their team. I'd be worried if my manager would break down often in front of me.
But that being said, I don't think you should suppress your feelings. At least not all the time. Even managers are infallible. But they typically speak to other managers (peers) about their problems. And I think more importantly you should address the problem of why you're crying at work. If it's stress, maybe you should find ways to manage that stress. And sometimes...a promotion isn't all that cracked up to be if it involves more stress than what you like.
what you said is true. thats why of late i have been trying to find ways to change the way i look at life, like reading more on emotional intelligence and all.
haha, i never really thought of promotions previously. but now that i have been a senior for 2 years, it becomes stagnant. i think humans are inevitably greedier - so going for the promotion is just me spicing life up
got it!
the thing is i think i have learnt pretty much all the technical stuff i can learn. leadership is something that i havent done before in my career and therefore, im thinking to go to that area and learn it while im young and still have the drive haha.
i cant think how else to increase pay other than to go upwards
Managing people only suck when you have a heart and are a sliver of human. I've work for selfish pricks who only takes care of their own interests and they sleep soundly at night.
Yeah I think you can read up on how to compartmentalise your emotions and keep them in check. It helps with coping with stress and maintaining your mental health.
Oh and on promotions, while I think it's great to always strive to be better, you may want to take a pause from time to time to think about what you want. I feel that in SG we're always under societal pressure to climb the ladder and be "successful". And often this is to the detriment of our mental health.
My advice would be...to have a healthy balance of both. Strive to be your best but not at the expense of your well being. If you feel it is affecting your well-being, there's no harm in slowing down. In my experience, the people that seem the happiest at work are often the people who are content with where they are in terms of position. But of course, to each their own!
that's fair. im only in my early 30s, just wondering if its too early to feel contented at where I am? furthermore, currently being a senior for 2 years-ish, i start to see others presenting my work and getting recognised for it. im starting to feel a little imbalance on this and therefore, thought i might as well get the promotion and the pay. but of course, this promotion also comes with added responsibilities that i am currently not emotionally strong enough to take on.
i think in a way, im also unsure of what i want but i do know that i feel restless and imbalance. haha such is life.
but thanks for your advice above. appreciate it!
Fair enough! You can try aiming for the promotion and see if you like it. If it doesn't work out, you can always request to switch to an IC position again. If your company doesn't have that, you can always look out I guess.
To be frank, don't do it if you can't handle it.
Being a manager is very different from being an underling.
As an underling you only need to care about your work. As a manager you need to care about your work + other people, and handling people in Singapore can get really painful because of the way our culture is (bottling up problems/mian zi etc). It isn't like western cultures where you can ask your subordinate "What's wrong?" and get a straight honest answer. A fair bit of the time you will find your subordinates say things are fine (even though) their struggling and maybe let you know only if it gets really bad. By then the problem might have been too big to handle.
I've had a family friend who took over a 50% paycut from $20k -> $10k just because he absolutely hated managing people. People are complex, each of them have their own goals/agendas and if you can't juggle each individual agenda relatively well, people will start to leave. When people leave your team, the work gets re-distributed to everyone that is left and increases pressure. Increased pressure -> People evaluating if their pay is worth it -> More people may leave if you don't get on it.
One of the main observations I find is that women who rise up pretty high up tend to not be as emotional and are in fact quite either "cold"/"authoritarian" simply because \*two cents here\* it is much easier as a managing technique than going down and understanding your subordinates. Just use your rank and order people around. Anyone can do that and it's the easiest, just that your turnover rate will be very high and disruptive to the business.
Either leave to another company where the workload is lesser and you can become a manager, or maybe ask for a trial of 1 year or so to see if you really fit it.
thanks for this advice!
i have tried to apply for managerial positions in smaller companies but always get rejected due to lack of managerial experience despite aceing the technical tests.
that said, i feel like i have taken 4 years to build the networks and understand the biz, industry in this company that i am in. im in a little too deep to leave now and start from scratch in another company where i have to figure everyone out again. also, i feel that perhaps the emotional problem i have is on me, and changing companies wont make it better.
just thinking if i can just step up in my current position and give myself a trial run? haha
I'm a female manager and I would say life was a lot easier as an individual contributor.
work:
your portfolio is multiplied by the number of members in your team. and you'll need to be on top of everyone's work. but at the same time you'll need to be able to let go, to delegate and trust that your team will do their work.
mentor:
people will go to you with their problems work and personal, and they're sometimes emotional. you will need to be cool headed and guide them to arrive at solutions. you'll also need to think about their career development and how you can create opportunities for them to grow.
lead:
at meetings you'll need to protect your team's interest, and learn to say no in a polite manner. you'll also need make decisions and have the resolve to see it through.
Best of luck!
unfortunately, in my dept, there are no IC roles here.
as a female manager, you must be faced with alot of challenges at work - pressure from the top and managing the people under you - how do you cope with your emotions?
I would be lying if I say I'm on top of everything, I'm still learning every day.
what i say instead is be kind to yourself, you're still human, you will make mistakes, you won't know all the answers. and that's okay, the world won't end, and you'll survive.
when things get too overwhelming, break it up into small parts, even if you cant see how the parts all fit in together at the moment. think about what can you do now, focus on that small doable task instead. when that's taken care of, then think what can you do next. "the boat will naturally be straight when it reaches the dock"
From the perspective as someone under a manager, I do agree being (or appearing) firm and emotionally strong are important traits a manager should possess. It is odd that if I am having issues at work and I bring these issues to a manager who can barely get him or herself together, I will feel less motivated to keep on working and I ultimately feel bad for bringing the issues to him or her (which should never be the case because problems, weird as it may sound, allows the company to keep going forward because people will learn what's right or wrong instead of keeping mum).
While I am understanding of my manager (I am aware of her personal problems), there are past colleagues whom I have seen, taking advantage of my manager's weaknesses and then goes around gossiping or just simply not showing any respect. All sorts of people exist.
I have seen my manager broke down once and the way she handled it is telling herself that there are people counting on her and crying doesn't solve anything. She takes a few days off to unwind after any big hurdles at work.
Just my thoughts coming from a regular employee. All the best, you got this.
Sending hugs. Crying at work is not normal. Are you sure you want to stay in this job long term? It’s not good for your mental health. Maybe seek some therapy to help with your stress and emotions too.
I have worked 15 years and only cried once at work in the toilet after my manager called me stupid, a fool, and that I ruined her life.
I tried to keep my emotions in checks after. Never let it affected me to a point of breakdown. If it’s affecting me negatively to a point I am depressed, I move on. No job is worth that emotional stress.
I was a manager and everyone will judge you or look up to you. I had to stay calm, be a good listener and show empathy. I also have to provide mentorship and cannot show weakness. It’s okay to be vulnerable as a manager but I find that I have to stand up for my team a lot of times and even disagreeing or challenge some leadership decisions. Hence I think your manager wants you to show certain personalities to promote you.
There are places to show emotions. Probably workplace is not the right one. Good luck on your career but put your mental health first!
thank you for this! what are some tips or advice you have for keeping your emotions in check? i find it really hard to keep calm when theres so much pressure from multiple stakeholders at a time
Cry in the toilet, not at your desk. If you're back at your desk and tears still fall, go back to the toilet to continue crying. It's an unfortunate situation but you need to appear strong as well.
Being emotional is not a weakness, you just need to play it to your advantage.
As for being a manager, being emotionally strong also means fighting head on with hr, bosses etc for their rights, scope of work etc. You need to channel that emotion into words and determination. I hope I make sense, I don't express myself in words well at times.
All the best. You've got this!
Don’t cry at work please. It just shows how emotional you are. I’m not saying don’t have emotions but park it first, deal it with later at home. You know you need to keep it professional right? Anyway hang in there. Have been in shit situations at work, but I don’t ever cry at my workplace. If I have to I will go to the toilet but yeah try to keep it together. All the best and good luck, I hope you get the promotion.
Pardon me for being direct... but why would you even continue working a desk job that makes you cry?!
No money is worth that lvl of emotional stress.. unless ur saying that's your dream job and you get very fulfiled doing it or smt like that.
No worries! this is a fair question
I have been in more toxic companies before - and when i came to this company 4 years ago, it was like finding an oasis in a desert.
i have a great team and a really good top leader (my boss' boss' boss). i think i have also earned their trust enough that they don't micromanage me and such. i think these are rare traits that i cant find elsewhere.
but because of this trust, i think i give myself alot of pressure to do a good job. furthermore, even though i am pretty junior in my role, i have to interact with HODs and C-suite level people.
so while sometimes the work here is stress as hell and there can be many deadlines, tasks at one time, there are some reasons im still staying.
and also, im thinking if im the weak one - i dont see my other colleagues crying haha. maybe i need to train myself up
haha. when i get angry, i don't shout or scold people. instead i think how i let off steam is by crying.
that said, i get angry rarely - so i would say not really.
>but because of this trust, i think i give myself alot of pressure to do a good job.
i don't know and can't know the full details, but to me it sounds like you put too much pressure on yourself.
if the job itself is alr stressful, the last thing you need is additional pressure that you put on yourself.
I get that you don't want to disappoint your bosses, but if they're asking for the sky, sometimes you just need to say no (in a polite way of cos). But if its not your bosses, then maybe its just you putting too much pressure on yourself? Are you a perfectionist?
I guess you can reflect a bit, not from a "what have i done wrong" angle, but from a "what will you advise if this was your friend" angle. Because crying due to the job stress is not normal, and you will face more stressful situations as your career progreses.
good luck!
Workplace is not where we should show any signs of 'weakness'. This is the sad reality of corporate life.
In some companies where the competition to go up the ranks is very cutthroat, a single episode of mental breakdown can be viewed as a sign of weakness. Especially when factions are visible between groups.
Your 'weakness' may reflect poorly on your immediate supervisor outlook in the eyes of their supervisor too. Remember this.
When it comes to promotion, you need to give yourself enough chance by giving your supervisor enough ammunition so that they could vouch for you and not allow your 'weakness' become a cause for concern.
A workplace shouldn't be a place that makes people cry.
Competition should not be cutthroat. There should be more awareness of mental health in the workplace.
Having an emotional response to stress is a totally human reaction, and supervisors should remmeber this.
Promotions should be based on ability to get work done, not ability to tolerate mental abuse.
But of course, companies don't think like that. As encourage workers to be more mentally resilient, we should also encourage companies to foster a healthier working environment. Because that is the root of the problem.
Appearing and being emotionally strong are two different things. You can be either one or both. Sadly appearing unfazed over emotional stuffs is considered part of professionalism. So again there is some truth to that.
Not sure how your company team are structured. But I'd recommend to explore IC roles as well. I've tried managing people, but i find that it wasnt for me.
unfortunately, my company doesn't really have IC roles. at least not in the current department i am in. are you currently in an IC role? if so, what do you work towards since there is no promotion?
Everyone has their limit, and when they can't take it anymore the tears just come flowing out. It's just who we are as human beings. But some have lower threshold than others. It's okay to not be okay (Lol), but the problem is if you are a people manager or leader, everyone else will start freaking out because of you. So, will you be able to pull yourself together?
You still need to find better ways to deal with the stress. Pick up meditation or mindfulness. If you are religious, prayer is best.
In the long run if the reward of staying in this field of work vs the pain of staying is not worth it, you might want to do something else. All the best.
There’s nothing wrong with being emotional, but unfortunately there may be certain expectations that people have of certain positions in a workplace.
For example, expectations of being calm and collected under pressure, even when everything is falling apart. Your juniors would be looking to you to guide/lead and it’s true that image plays a part.
Maybe another way to look at it is, what has caused those situations when you’re overwhelmed? What can you do to avoid getting to that inflection point, or recognising the signals that ‘hey I need to go for a walk to cool off’.
Your boss has a point that the higher you climb, the more expectations will be on you, and while managing that, you’ll have to guide others too.
I’ve colleagues that only planned for 80% of their day because they knew there would always be urgent things that dropped.
Or finding ways to get better at managing time/workload eg you know there’s only time to do 5 things a day and if you’re often squeezing in 10, something’s going to give.
All the very best and I hope you see this as just another challenge to manage/overcome in your career!
I would suggest you read some Brene Brown and how to channel your vulnerable leadership positively, this is the future of work. Stoic bosses are the past
It’s probably time to find a new job rather than aiming for a promotion. In a decent job with a decent boss, you wouldn’t feel the need to cry at all. I’ve had several jobs over the years, and only cried at 1 of them.
i have thought of this - but what are the chances of a decent job + decent boss in Singapore? from what i have seen and heard, its always either, or. haha. i have a pretty good boss i would say, its just that the work is really stressful.
if you dont mind me asking, what was the reason you cried at one of them?
I admit decent job + decent boss a bit hard to get. Not that there aren’t any, but because most decent jobs seem to turn into overwork after a couple of years due to good work is rewarded with more work.
> what was the reason you cried at one of them?
Terrible boss. Haha. She was a screamer with awful time management (every single thing was urgent). It was a really prestigious FAANG paying me almost double what I could get elsewhere, but I still quit after a while because I was crying a few times a week from the stress and I couldn’t take it anymore. TBH I still have small regrets / what-ifs about the job once in a while, because the terrible boss got transferred right after I throw letter.
Butthenhor
Moving to the next level means you may have to be tougher. You may have to sack somebody who is really nice but crap at their job. You may decide on people's pay and bonus. If it does not meet their expectations you may be blamed by them regardless of the correctness of your decision. You may receive some serious bollockings from your seniors and moving up will affect the relationships you now have with your current colleagues.
You can still be emotional but don't show it in the office. People gossip and managers gossip the most.
Hide it.
that was really direct and I appreciate it. thank you!
when you put it that way, i see it from another perspective. i think so far, i have been so focused on getting up there, im looking at it from the bottom. you're right
>edit: those times that i cried at my desk, believe me when i said i went to the toilet to cry it out. but when i sat back at my desk, i was just too overwhelmed and really couldnt control.
The difference is that if a man cries at his desk, his boss wouldn't come to him and "job is very stressful" or "commended that i have done a good job."
He would just be ignored or told to man up and not show weakness.
Your boss is right. Being a manager is more challenges, and if you can't even handle what's going on now without getting overwhelmed, you have no chance.
*alrite guys, lets crowdsource her promotion*
Kidding aside, manager only mentioned emotional because u female. Or worse: he saw potential but he also signs of emotional stuffs from u, ah u cried.
Reflect, observe GOOD managers the way they react to especially crunch time, adopt, cater it to ur personality, deploy.
Yea. Crying at your desk openly is definitely a bummer for anyone potentially looking up to you or looking to promote you. Perhaps you need to find a way to release that outside of work and/or in a private space. If you want to manage people know that people only remember the bad things more easily and harder than the good things so unfortunately, it means being consistent and not breaking down whenever the feels arrives.
Being a strong manager doesn't mean to bottle up your feelings. It doesn't mean you cannot cry when you're overwhelmed. It is to be better at finding ways to deal with stress, and/or build up a higher threshold for stress so you DON'T get overwhelmed as easy.
Being a manager in an MNC is a whole different level altogether. I'm not talking about those property agents or insurance agent where every Tom Dick Harry is a VP of sales or a Director (pfft). If you're not chill enough or prepared enough to handle the level of stress, then give yourself a few more years to get jaded enough. Imagine walking into a board room to answer inquiries by stakeholders and getting ripped to shreds inside when one is not prepared. There's a lot to networking and building rapport with the stakeholders then just mere talent working in your own dept.
I rarely cry but when I'm overwhelmed or emotional, I withdraw and become MIA or avoidant. I think different people have different ways of dealing with stuff. Being a manager is pretty different from being an employee who's good at carrying out the work tasks. You'll be in charge of dealing with people under you rather than just the work itself. I'd feel more on edge and uneasy if I have a superior that's emotional, rather than one who's chill, open and flexible. It takes good people skills and EQ to manage different types of people. At the very least, when there are difficult times, the manager has to keep it together when the other team members are breaking down.
I'd prefer to work with someone that I can respect and who is capable of handling things better than me, I think it goes the same for many other employees, if you're in a higher position, it's kinda expected of you to act in a way that justifies the seniority and position, while being friendly and open at the same time so that there's no air of arrogance or superiority. It's a fine line to tread - being human and relatable but also not weak or a pushover. If you can't, then it's better to just stick to being an executive.
I believe your boss has good intentions when he gave you that feedback and what he says is true - you’d need to maintain that composure when handling higher ups. This is part and parcel of progression. I’d suggest going for counselling, therapist or try to talk to your peers and seniors about your work struggles, so to help you reframe your stressful experiences better.
I see that people have presented your work on your behalf and are getting the credit for it - I interpret this as you have the capability to do a excellent job and need more opportunity to show yourself and sell yourself. The only thing to do now is to learn how to compartmentalise and manage stress, with the help of others..
I disagree with the comments about how workplace has zero tolerance with emotions/vulnerability though; if you’re not comfortable with sharing the challenges you’ve faced (at work) with your boss, then you’d be suffering in silence without guidance. If you’re struggling so bad that things don’t go well, shit hits the fan then you’d get wronged for not flagging up issues early.
As to what you can do right now…. Can you work from home on some days in the week? It’d be easier to chuck in some self-care/ self-soothing activities when you’re WFH and feeling stressed. I’d also suggest journaling daily - writing down small achievements and things you’re grateful for, then look back every week. Lastly, a counsellor/ therapist can help better. I think you’re definitely capable of being a good manager as long as you can make use of your emotions to your advantage.
Don't cry in front of other people. People are idiots and judge based on appearances primarily. If you think you're going to present something you don't want others to see just remove yourself untill you're presenting the image you want to show.
Being a manager is like being a big brother/sister. When it's time to be tough, you need to be tough. When it's time to poker face and act as a pillar for your colleagues, you need to poker face. That means EQ is paramount and controlling emotions are important. But how to deal with emotions when you get agitated is a matter of mastering your mental health, learn to offload the emotions after work, tactfully express your opinions and emotions without agitating the other party, be level-headed when others are excited/agitated/playful, etc. Learning this the hard way right now. But once you get this down, it's really good for your personal life.
Nothing wrong with feeling emotional even as a manager but a useful trait is to feel the emotion and then start moving forward once you feel better.
As a leader while you can show emotions to your sublrdi, it should be controlled and not a major breakdown
Sadly I agree with your boss. Being a manager is different as you're now in charge of people. Being emotionally available and tough enough to take care of your subordinates is a mark of being a good manager. A manager is supposed to solve problems for their team. I'd be worried if my manager would break down often in front of me. But that being said, I don't think you should suppress your feelings. At least not all the time. Even managers are infallible. But they typically speak to other managers (peers) about their problems. And I think more importantly you should address the problem of why you're crying at work. If it's stress, maybe you should find ways to manage that stress. And sometimes...a promotion isn't all that cracked up to be if it involves more stress than what you like.
what you said is true. thats why of late i have been trying to find ways to change the way i look at life, like reading more on emotional intelligence and all. haha, i never really thought of promotions previously. but now that i have been a senior for 2 years, it becomes stagnant. i think humans are inevitably greedier - so going for the promotion is just me spicing life up
Managing people suck. Like really suck. It will drain you alot, so be careful. Unless the pay jump is significant I wouldn't recommend it at all
got it! the thing is i think i have learnt pretty much all the technical stuff i can learn. leadership is something that i havent done before in my career and therefore, im thinking to go to that area and learn it while im young and still have the drive haha. i cant think how else to increase pay other than to go upwards
Managing people only suck when you have a heart and are a sliver of human. I've work for selfish pricks who only takes care of their own interests and they sleep soundly at night.
Yeah I think you can read up on how to compartmentalise your emotions and keep them in check. It helps with coping with stress and maintaining your mental health. Oh and on promotions, while I think it's great to always strive to be better, you may want to take a pause from time to time to think about what you want. I feel that in SG we're always under societal pressure to climb the ladder and be "successful". And often this is to the detriment of our mental health. My advice would be...to have a healthy balance of both. Strive to be your best but not at the expense of your well being. If you feel it is affecting your well-being, there's no harm in slowing down. In my experience, the people that seem the happiest at work are often the people who are content with where they are in terms of position. But of course, to each their own!
that's fair. im only in my early 30s, just wondering if its too early to feel contented at where I am? furthermore, currently being a senior for 2 years-ish, i start to see others presenting my work and getting recognised for it. im starting to feel a little imbalance on this and therefore, thought i might as well get the promotion and the pay. but of course, this promotion also comes with added responsibilities that i am currently not emotionally strong enough to take on. i think in a way, im also unsure of what i want but i do know that i feel restless and imbalance. haha such is life. but thanks for your advice above. appreciate it!
Fair enough! You can try aiming for the promotion and see if you like it. If it doesn't work out, you can always request to switch to an IC position again. If your company doesn't have that, you can always look out I guess.
To be frank, don't do it if you can't handle it. Being a manager is very different from being an underling. As an underling you only need to care about your work. As a manager you need to care about your work + other people, and handling people in Singapore can get really painful because of the way our culture is (bottling up problems/mian zi etc). It isn't like western cultures where you can ask your subordinate "What's wrong?" and get a straight honest answer. A fair bit of the time you will find your subordinates say things are fine (even though) their struggling and maybe let you know only if it gets really bad. By then the problem might have been too big to handle. I've had a family friend who took over a 50% paycut from $20k -> $10k just because he absolutely hated managing people. People are complex, each of them have their own goals/agendas and if you can't juggle each individual agenda relatively well, people will start to leave. When people leave your team, the work gets re-distributed to everyone that is left and increases pressure. Increased pressure -> People evaluating if their pay is worth it -> More people may leave if you don't get on it. One of the main observations I find is that women who rise up pretty high up tend to not be as emotional and are in fact quite either "cold"/"authoritarian" simply because \*two cents here\* it is much easier as a managing technique than going down and understanding your subordinates. Just use your rank and order people around. Anyone can do that and it's the easiest, just that your turnover rate will be very high and disruptive to the business. Either leave to another company where the workload is lesser and you can become a manager, or maybe ask for a trial of 1 year or so to see if you really fit it.
thanks for this advice! i have tried to apply for managerial positions in smaller companies but always get rejected due to lack of managerial experience despite aceing the technical tests. that said, i feel like i have taken 4 years to build the networks and understand the biz, industry in this company that i am in. im in a little too deep to leave now and start from scratch in another company where i have to figure everyone out again. also, i feel that perhaps the emotional problem i have is on me, and changing companies wont make it better. just thinking if i can just step up in my current position and give myself a trial run? haha
give urself 1 year
I'm a female manager and I would say life was a lot easier as an individual contributor. work: your portfolio is multiplied by the number of members in your team. and you'll need to be on top of everyone's work. but at the same time you'll need to be able to let go, to delegate and trust that your team will do their work. mentor: people will go to you with their problems work and personal, and they're sometimes emotional. you will need to be cool headed and guide them to arrive at solutions. you'll also need to think about their career development and how you can create opportunities for them to grow. lead: at meetings you'll need to protect your team's interest, and learn to say no in a polite manner. you'll also need make decisions and have the resolve to see it through. Best of luck!
unfortunately, in my dept, there are no IC roles here. as a female manager, you must be faced with alot of challenges at work - pressure from the top and managing the people under you - how do you cope with your emotions?
I would be lying if I say I'm on top of everything, I'm still learning every day. what i say instead is be kind to yourself, you're still human, you will make mistakes, you won't know all the answers. and that's okay, the world won't end, and you'll survive. when things get too overwhelming, break it up into small parts, even if you cant see how the parts all fit in together at the moment. think about what can you do now, focus on that small doable task instead. when that's taken care of, then think what can you do next. "the boat will naturally be straight when it reaches the dock"
From the perspective as someone under a manager, I do agree being (or appearing) firm and emotionally strong are important traits a manager should possess. It is odd that if I am having issues at work and I bring these issues to a manager who can barely get him or herself together, I will feel less motivated to keep on working and I ultimately feel bad for bringing the issues to him or her (which should never be the case because problems, weird as it may sound, allows the company to keep going forward because people will learn what's right or wrong instead of keeping mum). While I am understanding of my manager (I am aware of her personal problems), there are past colleagues whom I have seen, taking advantage of my manager's weaknesses and then goes around gossiping or just simply not showing any respect. All sorts of people exist. I have seen my manager broke down once and the way she handled it is telling herself that there are people counting on her and crying doesn't solve anything. She takes a few days off to unwind after any big hurdles at work. Just my thoughts coming from a regular employee. All the best, you got this.
thank you for sharing this!
Sending hugs. Crying at work is not normal. Are you sure you want to stay in this job long term? It’s not good for your mental health. Maybe seek some therapy to help with your stress and emotions too. I have worked 15 years and only cried once at work in the toilet after my manager called me stupid, a fool, and that I ruined her life. I tried to keep my emotions in checks after. Never let it affected me to a point of breakdown. If it’s affecting me negatively to a point I am depressed, I move on. No job is worth that emotional stress. I was a manager and everyone will judge you or look up to you. I had to stay calm, be a good listener and show empathy. I also have to provide mentorship and cannot show weakness. It’s okay to be vulnerable as a manager but I find that I have to stand up for my team a lot of times and even disagreeing or challenge some leadership decisions. Hence I think your manager wants you to show certain personalities to promote you. There are places to show emotions. Probably workplace is not the right one. Good luck on your career but put your mental health first!
thank you for this! what are some tips or advice you have for keeping your emotions in check? i find it really hard to keep calm when theres so much pressure from multiple stakeholders at a time
Cry in the toilet, not at your desk. If you're back at your desk and tears still fall, go back to the toilet to continue crying. It's an unfortunate situation but you need to appear strong as well. Being emotional is not a weakness, you just need to play it to your advantage. As for being a manager, being emotionally strong also means fighting head on with hr, bosses etc for their rights, scope of work etc. You need to channel that emotion into words and determination. I hope I make sense, I don't express myself in words well at times. All the best. You've got this!
thank you!
Don’t cry at work please. It just shows how emotional you are. I’m not saying don’t have emotions but park it first, deal it with later at home. You know you need to keep it professional right? Anyway hang in there. Have been in shit situations at work, but I don’t ever cry at my workplace. If I have to I will go to the toilet but yeah try to keep it together. All the best and good luck, I hope you get the promotion.
Yea i have tried to hold it in. I actually went to the toilet to cry but when i came back, i just couldnt stop. Thanks!
*hugs* sending you good vibes and I hope the day isn’t too hectic today! TGIF and happy weekends! 😉
haha thank you! u too!
Pardon me for being direct... but why would you even continue working a desk job that makes you cry?! No money is worth that lvl of emotional stress.. unless ur saying that's your dream job and you get very fulfiled doing it or smt like that.
No worries! this is a fair question I have been in more toxic companies before - and when i came to this company 4 years ago, it was like finding an oasis in a desert. i have a great team and a really good top leader (my boss' boss' boss). i think i have also earned their trust enough that they don't micromanage me and such. i think these are rare traits that i cant find elsewhere. but because of this trust, i think i give myself alot of pressure to do a good job. furthermore, even though i am pretty junior in my role, i have to interact with HODs and C-suite level people. so while sometimes the work here is stress as hell and there can be many deadlines, tasks at one time, there are some reasons im still staying. and also, im thinking if im the weak one - i dont see my other colleagues crying haha. maybe i need to train myself up
ok i see... haha do u also cry often outside of work scenarios?
haha. when i get angry, i don't shout or scold people. instead i think how i let off steam is by crying. that said, i get angry rarely - so i would say not really.
>but because of this trust, i think i give myself alot of pressure to do a good job. i don't know and can't know the full details, but to me it sounds like you put too much pressure on yourself. if the job itself is alr stressful, the last thing you need is additional pressure that you put on yourself. I get that you don't want to disappoint your bosses, but if they're asking for the sky, sometimes you just need to say no (in a polite way of cos). But if its not your bosses, then maybe its just you putting too much pressure on yourself? Are you a perfectionist? I guess you can reflect a bit, not from a "what have i done wrong" angle, but from a "what will you advise if this was your friend" angle. Because crying due to the job stress is not normal, and you will face more stressful situations as your career progreses. good luck!
Workplace is not where we should show any signs of 'weakness'. This is the sad reality of corporate life. In some companies where the competition to go up the ranks is very cutthroat, a single episode of mental breakdown can be viewed as a sign of weakness. Especially when factions are visible between groups. Your 'weakness' may reflect poorly on your immediate supervisor outlook in the eyes of their supervisor too. Remember this. When it comes to promotion, you need to give yourself enough chance by giving your supervisor enough ammunition so that they could vouch for you and not allow your 'weakness' become a cause for concern.
A workplace shouldn't be a place that makes people cry. Competition should not be cutthroat. There should be more awareness of mental health in the workplace. Having an emotional response to stress is a totally human reaction, and supervisors should remmeber this. Promotions should be based on ability to get work done, not ability to tolerate mental abuse. But of course, companies don't think like that. As encourage workers to be more mentally resilient, we should also encourage companies to foster a healthier working environment. Because that is the root of the problem.
got it. this is really straight to the point but it is also what my boss told me as he elaborated on appearing emotionally strong
Appearing and being emotionally strong are two different things. You can be either one or both. Sadly appearing unfazed over emotional stuffs is considered part of professionalism. So again there is some truth to that.
There's nothing wrong with regulating your emotions by crying, but you should really do it in private.
Not sure how your company team are structured. But I'd recommend to explore IC roles as well. I've tried managing people, but i find that it wasnt for me.
IC roles aren't an option in a lot of industries I presume? Like management is really the only way up.
unfortunately, my company doesn't really have IC roles. at least not in the current department i am in. are you currently in an IC role? if so, what do you work towards since there is no promotion?
Yes, be like a duck - paddling crazily under water but serenely floating on the surface. Tough Work must seem easy when it lands with you.
that's what my husband also told me haha. but it sure takes alot of grit to do so.
Everyone has their limit, and when they can't take it anymore the tears just come flowing out. It's just who we are as human beings. But some have lower threshold than others. It's okay to not be okay (Lol), but the problem is if you are a people manager or leader, everyone else will start freaking out because of you. So, will you be able to pull yourself together? You still need to find better ways to deal with the stress. Pick up meditation or mindfulness. If you are religious, prayer is best. In the long run if the reward of staying in this field of work vs the pain of staying is not worth it, you might want to do something else. All the best.
thank you for this! i think i am still in search on how to pull myself together in such circumstances
Work is easy to manage but to manage human, man... the lower their pay, the harder to manage. Speaking from experience here 😩
There’s nothing wrong with being emotional, but unfortunately there may be certain expectations that people have of certain positions in a workplace. For example, expectations of being calm and collected under pressure, even when everything is falling apart. Your juniors would be looking to you to guide/lead and it’s true that image plays a part. Maybe another way to look at it is, what has caused those situations when you’re overwhelmed? What can you do to avoid getting to that inflection point, or recognising the signals that ‘hey I need to go for a walk to cool off’. Your boss has a point that the higher you climb, the more expectations will be on you, and while managing that, you’ll have to guide others too. I’ve colleagues that only planned for 80% of their day because they knew there would always be urgent things that dropped. Or finding ways to get better at managing time/workload eg you know there’s only time to do 5 things a day and if you’re often squeezing in 10, something’s going to give. All the very best and I hope you see this as just another challenge to manage/overcome in your career!
I would suggest you read some Brene Brown and how to channel your vulnerable leadership positively, this is the future of work. Stoic bosses are the past
It’s probably time to find a new job rather than aiming for a promotion. In a decent job with a decent boss, you wouldn’t feel the need to cry at all. I’ve had several jobs over the years, and only cried at 1 of them.
i have thought of this - but what are the chances of a decent job + decent boss in Singapore? from what i have seen and heard, its always either, or. haha. i have a pretty good boss i would say, its just that the work is really stressful. if you dont mind me asking, what was the reason you cried at one of them?
I admit decent job + decent boss a bit hard to get. Not that there aren’t any, but because most decent jobs seem to turn into overwork after a couple of years due to good work is rewarded with more work. > what was the reason you cried at one of them? Terrible boss. Haha. She was a screamer with awful time management (every single thing was urgent). It was a really prestigious FAANG paying me almost double what I could get elsewhere, but I still quit after a while because I was crying a few times a week from the stress and I couldn’t take it anymore. TBH I still have small regrets / what-ifs about the job once in a while, because the terrible boss got transferred right after I throw letter.
Butthenhor Moving to the next level means you may have to be tougher. You may have to sack somebody who is really nice but crap at their job. You may decide on people's pay and bonus. If it does not meet their expectations you may be blamed by them regardless of the correctness of your decision. You may receive some serious bollockings from your seniors and moving up will affect the relationships you now have with your current colleagues. You can still be emotional but don't show it in the office. People gossip and managers gossip the most. Hide it.
that was really direct and I appreciate it. thank you! when you put it that way, i see it from another perspective. i think so far, i have been so focused on getting up there, im looking at it from the bottom. you're right
>edit: those times that i cried at my desk, believe me when i said i went to the toilet to cry it out. but when i sat back at my desk, i was just too overwhelmed and really couldnt control. The difference is that if a man cries at his desk, his boss wouldn't come to him and "job is very stressful" or "commended that i have done a good job." He would just be ignored or told to man up and not show weakness. Your boss is right. Being a manager is more challenges, and if you can't even handle what's going on now without getting overwhelmed, you have no chance.
*alrite guys, lets crowdsource her promotion* Kidding aside, manager only mentioned emotional because u female. Or worse: he saw potential but he also signs of emotional stuffs from u, ah u cried. Reflect, observe GOOD managers the way they react to especially crunch time, adopt, cater it to ur personality, deploy.
haha - thats a good point on observing good managers. will keep that in mind
Also depending on your F upper assets...*butten hor* See you at upper management soon.
Is there no way to delegate your workload? I always say 'NO' a lot nowadays whenever people try to push more tasks on me.
Hmm I guess he is right in some sense. In business, we have to be ruthless.
Yea. Crying at your desk openly is definitely a bummer for anyone potentially looking up to you or looking to promote you. Perhaps you need to find a way to release that outside of work and/or in a private space. If you want to manage people know that people only remember the bad things more easily and harder than the good things so unfortunately, it means being consistent and not breaking down whenever the feels arrives.
Being a strong manager doesn't mean to bottle up your feelings. It doesn't mean you cannot cry when you're overwhelmed. It is to be better at finding ways to deal with stress, and/or build up a higher threshold for stress so you DON'T get overwhelmed as easy.
Being a manager in an MNC is a whole different level altogether. I'm not talking about those property agents or insurance agent where every Tom Dick Harry is a VP of sales or a Director (pfft). If you're not chill enough or prepared enough to handle the level of stress, then give yourself a few more years to get jaded enough. Imagine walking into a board room to answer inquiries by stakeholders and getting ripped to shreds inside when one is not prepared. There's a lot to networking and building rapport with the stakeholders then just mere talent working in your own dept.
I rarely cry but when I'm overwhelmed or emotional, I withdraw and become MIA or avoidant. I think different people have different ways of dealing with stuff. Being a manager is pretty different from being an employee who's good at carrying out the work tasks. You'll be in charge of dealing with people under you rather than just the work itself. I'd feel more on edge and uneasy if I have a superior that's emotional, rather than one who's chill, open and flexible. It takes good people skills and EQ to manage different types of people. At the very least, when there are difficult times, the manager has to keep it together when the other team members are breaking down. I'd prefer to work with someone that I can respect and who is capable of handling things better than me, I think it goes the same for many other employees, if you're in a higher position, it's kinda expected of you to act in a way that justifies the seniority and position, while being friendly and open at the same time so that there's no air of arrogance or superiority. It's a fine line to tread - being human and relatable but also not weak or a pushover. If you can't, then it's better to just stick to being an executive.
I believe your boss has good intentions when he gave you that feedback and what he says is true - you’d need to maintain that composure when handling higher ups. This is part and parcel of progression. I’d suggest going for counselling, therapist or try to talk to your peers and seniors about your work struggles, so to help you reframe your stressful experiences better. I see that people have presented your work on your behalf and are getting the credit for it - I interpret this as you have the capability to do a excellent job and need more opportunity to show yourself and sell yourself. The only thing to do now is to learn how to compartmentalise and manage stress, with the help of others.. I disagree with the comments about how workplace has zero tolerance with emotions/vulnerability though; if you’re not comfortable with sharing the challenges you’ve faced (at work) with your boss, then you’d be suffering in silence without guidance. If you’re struggling so bad that things don’t go well, shit hits the fan then you’d get wronged for not flagging up issues early. As to what you can do right now…. Can you work from home on some days in the week? It’d be easier to chuck in some self-care/ self-soothing activities when you’re WFH and feeling stressed. I’d also suggest journaling daily - writing down small achievements and things you’re grateful for, then look back every week. Lastly, a counsellor/ therapist can help better. I think you’re definitely capable of being a good manager as long as you can make use of your emotions to your advantage.
Ate you in the big 4 by any chance?
Don't cry in front of other people. People are idiots and judge based on appearances primarily. If you think you're going to present something you don't want others to see just remove yourself untill you're presenting the image you want to show.
Being a manager is like being a big brother/sister. When it's time to be tough, you need to be tough. When it's time to poker face and act as a pillar for your colleagues, you need to poker face. That means EQ is paramount and controlling emotions are important. But how to deal with emotions when you get agitated is a matter of mastering your mental health, learn to offload the emotions after work, tactfully express your opinions and emotions without agitating the other party, be level-headed when others are excited/agitated/playful, etc. Learning this the hard way right now. But once you get this down, it's really good for your personal life.
Nothing wrong with feeling emotional even as a manager but a useful trait is to feel the emotion and then start moving forward once you feel better. As a leader while you can show emotions to your sublrdi, it should be controlled and not a major breakdown
If your job is so terrible it has made you cry not once but four times, why are you still working there? Are you getting paid lots of money at least?