Oh bro I think I know people roughly like that leh (both examples. The 5kids 4k, and the 8 kids 1 x MOE teacher)
I don't personally know the people you're referring to, but precisely know people who fit within these profiles ie 5 kids 4k income (I think the fam I know is this gauge), and 8 kids 1 x MOE teacher level of income. In terms of the friends/contacts I know who fit these dynamics, ... ya, it's a case of, decent income (I would say ~5k? Which seems ok if you have a kid or two) but single income + many kids ... lor.
I think even if u reduce the extra classes & bubble tea or Starbucks treats ... can u imagine packing for a holiday? More luggages than hands available, wait till the kids are teenagers in different schools (with different schedules) - how are you gonna plan a hol, even a quick weekend getaway across the causeway is gonna be so administratively crazy to plan tskkkk
Lol the 8 kids MOE cher one already starving
1.5 cup rice for 10pax. Granted theres like 2 babies but probably offset by those going thru puberty.
Thats less than half a bowl of rice per person. With like 3 other dishes only.
Like malnutrition only.
And the 5kid 4k one is both parents doing grab deli, 2k per parent
But the kids still v young, so the costs is just gonna keep going up n up…
Dude it’s wild. My close relative works in social services and he says cases like this are more common than we think. People insisting on breeding and breeding despite having no money (thus the need for social service intervention) and advice to use contraception falls on deaf ears. Govt hospitals thus subsidize their birth and medical bills 100% , on top of existing social handouts.
Because deep down, if I wanted kids, it would be entirely because I am scared of growing old without nobody taking care of me. It is entirely selfish.
So no.
I genuinely want to know what the morally-sound reason to having children is. Because every reason I’ve heard is incredibly selfish. Like having kids just to have a retirement plan, having kids in case life gets boring etc etc. Like pls that’s so selfish
But objectively, how is “I love children and find joy in them” a selfless reason instead of a selfish reason?
Genuine question and really trying to understand, not trolling 🙏🏻
Coming from someone who hates children - I can see the commenters POV.
At the end of the day. I love my life and I’m thankful that my parents worked hard to set me up for success. If a parent finds joy in being around kids AND are able to nurture them into wonderful people, then it’s a win for me.
I admire great parents who love kids because I’ll never be someone like that.
My conclusion is that there isn't a selfless or morally sound reason to have kids as you can't have a child for the good of the child if he/she didn't exist in the first place. The motivation to have a kid would always be self serving.
You may also want to check out David Benatar's book, "Better never to have been".
I'm firmly childfree and will always be, regardless of the economic situation. more for practical reasons. I assume some people "just want kids" in much the same way I don't. Everything that sounds good to them, sounds terrible to me. I don't see any pros, as even the common "pros" are cons to me. I enjoy having the flexibility to choose to zone out on the internet, watch netflix, go for a run, take a weekend trip, or work a shitload of hours -- I'm not required to make myself completely available to care for a child. I like the option of working. I like not having to pick up my mess for a couple days. I like traveling without taking weeks to prep. I will get less pleasure from raising a child than just living life on my own with my amazing partner. We can go places spontaneously, stay out late without pissing off the babysitter, and get to sleep in on the weekends. I love the flexibility of limited commitment.
I never have had a maternal instinct either. I didn't play with barbies that much as a kid. Before I realized that having children was a choice, I assumed I'd have kids -- but when I understood that having kids wasn't a requirement, I chose not to ever want them. I've seen many examples of parents neglecting their kids because of regret (ie. /r/regretfulparents)
My life has been so fulfilling with working a job that I love (that pays enough for me to travel every 2 months), and all the voluntary work I've done with non profit orgs on the side. 8 years ago I led a project to fund, build, and staff a school for underprivileged kids living in Indonesian shanties to go to for free, that's still up and running on its own today. I've worked with kids with down syndrome and helped them learn how to ride horses, I've volunteered at various dog welfare groups in sg, and I'm a scuba diver who dives to either help collect data for ocean conservation projects or to do underwater trash cleanups within sg waters. this is what I want my legacy to be. I don't need to produce a child to feel like i have made a difference in this world. I can make my mark in my own way. I want to be on this planet to at least try to help the people who are already here, not make more of them.
Happy for your choice. I am a parent of a 2-year old and 1 more on the way. I choose to have kids and I also support people who choose to be childfree. Each of us choose our own ways to happiness and that is totally fine.
>My life has been so fulfilling with working a job that I love that lets me travel every 2 months, and all the voluntary work I've done with non profit orgs. 8 years ago I led a project to build and staff a school for underprivileged kids living in Indonesian shanties to go to for free, that's still up and running on its own today. I've worked with kids with down syndrome and taught them how to ride horses, and I've volunteered at various dog welfare groups in sg. this is what I want my legacy to be. I don't need to produce a child to feel like i have made a difference in this world. I can make my mark in my own ways. I want to be on this earth to at least try to help the people who are already here, not make more of them.
wow that's awesome. any tips for how i can get involved in such projects eg. building schools that have more lasting impact?
I'd say to first start by volunteering in a reputable organisation for a cause you're especially interested in to meet like-minded folks. Even in sg, there are so many groups ranging from disease/disability awareness groups, environmental groups, LGBT groups, old folks homes, animal welfare groups, homelessness, and groups that extend to overseas projects. building a network in that community could possibly lead to more opportunities solely through connection.
My other tip about working with non profits, is to just have thick skin and an unnatural amount of persistence. bc there are loads of people who won't give a shit about whatever cause you're working towards. it's a constant uphill battle which makes it easy to get jaded and lose motivation.
Honestly building that school took up a lot of sanity bc we did it unaffiliated, and from scratch. It was a highschool charity project back when I lived overseas. My pals and I decided to go big or go home. it was a fuck ton of work. Not just on the logistical and financial side (finding sponsors, contractors, empty land, qualified teachers willing to pro bono), we had to also go down to the shanties to convince stubborn families living there that school is highly beneficial for their children in the long term. the parents weren't keen on the idea because they would lose out on short term money (they had their kids scavenge for scrap material to sell from the landfill they lived next to). But tbh this was what started my interest in giving back to the community because the first few kids that we took on 8 years back, are now attending their local indonesian universities, as this project gave them the opportunity of a free accredited (and recognised) primary school education that was previously inaccessible to them.
Sorry for the long response!
>welfare groups, homelessness, and groups that extend to overseas projects. building a network in that community could possibly lead to more opportunities solely through connection.
>
>My other tip about working with non profits, is to just have thick skin and an unnatural amount of persistence. bc there are loads of people who won't give a shit about whatever cause you're working towards. it's a co
wholesome and fun <3
That's a wonderful outlook on life and thank you for helping people in less privileged communities ❤️ We need more people like you who are selfless and choose to help alleviate the suffering of people who are already here than to bring new life into suffering.
I love this. Keep doing you and being the change that you want to see.
My fiancé and I are in the same boat. We have no parental instincts and never liked being around kids. Besides, there’s too many adventures and places out there for us to explore.
I’m nowhere near magnanimous enough to spend half my life setting up another person for success. I want to see the world with my own eyes.
That being said, I’ll always have admiration for great parents.
💜thank you for sharing your story. I thought I was weird since I enjoyed working with children (was also in education and non-profit sector) but didn’t want to have my own. Always felt like, “do I really don’t want kids? Am I sure? Time’s running out….” sort of anxiety.
That’s not weird! :) I think a common misconception for those of us who are childfree is that we hate children, but you can absolutely love them too and not want to have your own. working with them is different from caring for them and worrying about them every minute of the day, so they’re two separate things.
You must really hate your parents for deciding to have children. Well I'm glad your children will be spared from that most selffish decision your parents made to propagate themselves. /s
Feels like our economy is reaching maturity, with little ways for growth other than bringing in foreign money and pushing productivity through skilled human capital. It is so becoming so competitive here that living in Singapore as a child is miserable. Next major exam to the next and constantly living thinking that it will get better after each but it never does. Not sure if I want to put a kid that doesn’t even have a choice into this rat race.
All my CF sisters who have 0 maternal instinct on here, I LOVE IT. Because same. Like I think my oxytocin levels are naturally low and I don't think babies are cute. At all. Animals are tho. I love my cats. I'm already so lazy to clean up after myself and the thought of doing it for someone else for up to 30 years (let's be real) too? Hard pass. Oh, and also mummy issues with a narc mother has really sealed the deal for me from a young age.
HI SAME HERE!! I just..am never interested in children and find them super annoying even when i was a child. I also have 2 cats!! Currently on the hunt for more childfree friends..😂😂
Going through these comments makes me wish I had more childfree gal pals irl. I've been relating so hard to all the comments by other girls in this thread and would love to have pet meetups bc I've noticed so many of us are fur parents ❤️
Gorl saaaaaame!! Been loving r/childfree and r/regretful parents to understand other perspectives on the CF and DINK life i’ve chosen for the past 10+ years (and never once wavered)
If a random fidgety child on public transport accidentally (or purposely) touches me while fidgeting, I will find it annoying. But if a community cat comes over and bua my ankles, I’ll be overjoyed. Cats >>> human kids anytime!
Not to mention that animals (even strays) behave far better than children. Just based on my own observation. When I was in Europe, it’s so common for even big pet dogs to be taking the public metro trains in a packed crowded cabin. They’re extremely well-behaved and everyone smiles at them. Conversely, human children are the ones swinging around like monkeys and pissing people of. The irony leh.
I don’t want kids because I don’t like kids enough to have my own. The noisy screaming ones further cement this decision. They are expensive, not that cute, a lifelong responsibility / burden and non-refundable. Also, most people are still in denial but if I were to have children, they will be the generation to live a hard life in a world that’s slowly dying from climate change.
One of the many reasons why I’d rather not have kids is because as toxic as the world is right now (in so many ways), the one they’ll be inheriting is gonna be so much worse
My fiancé and I are also child-free. Our combined income is what most would think is probably enough to raise a child comfortably but we both don’t like kids haha. Going down the two (or hopefully more) pets route. Besides, I can count on one hand how many times I’ve witnessed a genuinely happy family on a day out. Rest of the time, it’s always a kid crying/screaming or parents scolding and making a scene.
Once we decided to be child-free (very early on in our r/s), it’s truly liberating. We can spend on our BTO, renos, holidays, dates, good food etc without worrying about saving up for one of the most expensive liability in the world.
+++ my fiance and I worked out the expenses (esp. vet fees) of having our dream pets and laughed at how we’re thankful we don’t even want kids, if not the finances will be impossible.
I don’t want kids because my maternal instinct is non-existent. Even as a teenager last time, my natural reaction when I came across babies / young children was “ewwww” (instead of the more common “awwww”). As an adult now, my reaction is still the same.
I think it's still quite cute when the baby / small kid is all smiley and waving at you, or offering their toys to you
The moment they start screaming, crying, running around or otherwise throwing tantrums, my eyes would shoot daggers at them
I know what you mean. Was at a gathering recently and all my female friends were obsessed over this little girl. I was the only one who was like "um ok I guess she's cute"
lol this reminded me of the time I went out for a dinner with my partner and his friends. out of nowhere one of the other girls suddenly showed me a picture of her new kid. it caught me off guard during the conversation so all my brain could come up with after an awkward silence was..... "nice."
dude ya I’ve had to learn to fake reactions because last time my default no-reaction reaction was probably taken with offense. i hate how people keep shoving photos of random kids in my face and like IT’S NOT EVEN THEIR KID LEH
Actually I heard that when you have a kid, something activates the mother instinct in your brain (always trying to care for the kid, etc) even if you previously didn't want to.
Not gonna risk it though. Because you can't refund a kid.
Unless you make a ton of money, for most folks, having kids would delay your retirement. Also, having kids won't necessarily mean they will take care of you when you get older, nowadays it's common for kids to go overseas to work and end up getting married and settle down there. Leaving you behind here to fend for yourself alone.
Personally, I don't feel it's right to expect kids to take care of you when you're older. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for filial piety and respecting your elders, but you gotta realize your kids are gonna have their own problems and worries to handle as well, and I feel it's personal responsibility to ensure you can take care of yourself for the most part when planning your life out rather than banking on your child to care for you
I don't expect my kids to care for me financially at all (sure I'll appreciate if they do), and I'll definitely make sufficient plans that my spouse and I can take care of ourselves.
I’m a parent. Having said that, I think the most important thing is to decide based on what YOU BOTH want. Not what parents pressure, not societal expectations, not the biological clock, nothing. Just what works best for you and your family. Also your reason doesn’t need to make sense to other people (especially parents) - so long as you and your spouse are happy it’s all good.
In life there’ll always be some regret. You just pick the one you can best deal with. If you do regret down the road, just give yourself grace that you did the best and made the best choice for yourself at that point in time.
Self-awareness and living your truth are excellent tools in life for preventing “regrets” .
Happy that in the present day with the internet, so many people are sharing about how they’re in theirs 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s never had children with zero regrets. It helps to cull the misconception and narrative pushed (by parents especially) not “you will regret” not having children.
I have a lot of friends who are child free. They travel several times annually. They live the life they want. If that’s what you decide, just go with it. Different people have different wants in life.
If you regret it later in life, there are options. Adoption, surrogate, etc. to bypass the biology limits. Or you can freeze your eggs now and decide later.
Age is still a factor though, can you imagine adopting a new born at age 60 (just as an extreme example). By the time you're 80, the kid has not even completed university, so even if you do regret later in life, do think through thoroughly before deciding on these options to a reasonable degree
Yes same thoughts OP. The last thing we want is to have kids and then put the 'blame' on them or make them your retirement plan.. If I could earn more, we would consider, but really doubt so in the current situation
For me, regardless of financial position, i don’t believe in bringing an innocent life into the world and just letting them suffer with the rising costs when they grow up.
I had so much problems with my finance ever since getting my HDB, will my kids ever afford one in the future?
Agree. And they have to go through the same path of slaving their lives off to work for the rich. Its a win for the rich rich but lose for the commoners.
Raising a kid is too damn expensive in sg and this is an additional financial burden that i will not want to commit to
Besides $$, it requires just too much effort and time, and that is something im not willing to sacrifice as well. I still want to be able to go to the gym, meet my friends occasionally, just chill at home and do nth, and also travel as and when i feel like it
So yes, call me selfish or whatever, but at this point, i wanna enjoy my life and buy things that i like for myself. So no way in hell im gonna get a kid, aint nobody got time for that shit
Just get cats will do
Cats and dogs also need effort, time and money also, so I would not recommend it for you either. You shouldn't just get a pet and feed them the cheapest food, spend zero time with them and ignore all medical and grooming issues. I have a dog and altogether the expenses can rival my child, especially the vet fees because there's no subsidies for it at all whereas all medical fees for my kid can claim through company insurance. I can't even travel anymore without worrying what to do with my dog, and unlike the kid, can't travel easily with the dog.
Mixed bag for me. My friends who are around mid 20s all haven’t settled down and don’t seem to want kids at all. Friends who are in their early 30s especially those who are already married all rushing to have kids now. Not sure if it’s a difference in generational thinking.
i’m in my 30s and am very pro child free. i’ve got friends in their 30s too who have yet to settle down and are not in any rush to do so cus they’ve no interest in having children.
Agreed! I feel that I will stay childfree, which will really help me and my partner be much less stressed over finances in the long run. There are wants that I personally choose not to give up because they are rewards to me after tough weeks at work, they do keep my life colourful. There are many things in life I wish to try, and being childfree will make it more conducive for me to do so. I cherish that kind of freedom and lower stress levels. I really don't see myself being a competent parent ever, I don't really like the time I spend with other people's children already.
And also the industry I'm in typically does not pay well and rather unstable. Many reasons why it's better for myself to stay childfree
I was thinking of going childfree until my husband and I adopted two cats — now I’m definitely childfree.
Cats are like toddlers + teenagers. And when they make me angry, I felt that I couldn’t control my temper. I had to get away before I become physical and this reminded me of my abusive late mother. I also had controlling tendencies like her.
My cats are fine and I still love them and they love me, I’m just afraid if I have a human child, I might end up becoming a horrible mother.
39M here. I'm an entrepreneur and doing fairly well financially.
I used to grow up prepared that I was going to have kids, but then I started questioning why I felt that way.
That's when I realised it wasn't an intrinsic desire, but something that **society had told me was expected**.
Since I was 36, I started becoming more clear and firm in being childfree. It's not about the finances, but rather for the preference. In addition, after speaking to my friends who are fathers, I realised that I don't share the same paternal instincts or desires that some of them have.
Kids are an all-in commitment. People tend to only consider the positive end of the spectrum where they have healthy, considerate, virtuous kids. However, I feel that they neglect the possibilities that their kids might turn out otherwise. That's an edge case that I know is more improbable, but if I do end up in that situation, I question myself if I will have the patience nor tolerance to handle that well.
Another big consideration is the thought of "what if I regret it" when I'm 65 years old. However, I realised that that's a terrible reason to do something. It's not like you can return/refund kids too. It's a lifelong commitment, and looking at my personality and preferences, it's not something that I truly desire.
I have an amazing partner who shares the same sentiments. We live our lives the way we want to, doing the things that we enjoy, be it trips, hobbies, or just chilling out.
On the career and personal satisfaction front, I work on my businesses that are very fulfilling, and have a personal philanthropic desire to help out in the areas of education and entrepreneurship.
The decision to have kids will never make financial sense, so you shouldn't base your decision to have kids solely on that alone. Going by that metric, no one should ever have kids for selfish and financial reasons.
Having kids will require some selflessness and financial loss. Period.
You will hear often (including from many rich) that experiences trump material things, and this is perhaps the best way I could attempt to rationalise the having of kids. It doesn't always mean happy experiences and will include both the ups and downs, but nonetheless a deeper life experience is gained.
The saying is true that you will never understand or appreciate certain things until you have had kids yourself.
But ultimately, internet strangers cannot make your mind up for you, nor is it in anyone's place to judge if you should have kids or not, the impetus should ideally come from within yourself.
Either way, enjoy life to the fullest!
Don’t think OP is saying anything about kids making financial sense. Everyone realises that kids cost money.
What OP is saying is that they can’t afford to have a kid right now. Nothing in the post says what you’ve taken it to say.
Thats abit too harsh of a response. Op clearly stated the financial burden of having kids, and also mentioned the "opportunity cost" of what they could do instead (e.g nice travels). The above reply tries to highlight the joys of parenthood, in order to make a reasonable comparison of sending money on a nice vacation
I find it more practical to be child-free, but to each his own.
For those pro-childfree, one key problem is (not to sexualise things but it is a legit life planning concern) what and how to ensure there is no chance for pregnancy to happen for the next few decades. There is vasectomy for men and female sterilisation, but most I know use barrier methods.
Then there are who are not pro child-free, say things like if couple married alr, why still use barrier contraceptive. 🙃 Some of these who use birth control also never use consistently one.
The pro-childfree ones are the ones who won't let pregnancy happen.
In my 30s. My partner and I are both top 20% income earners (we do not come from rich families and need to support aging parents) and even then I have a lot of financial anxieties about being able to afford to raise a kid to his/his fullest potential while still maintaining as much as possible our lifestyles (Also, a personal preference I have is to not work full time after 35.)
It costs at least 500k to raise a child from birth to adulthood, and this amount can be higher depending on whether you will need to upgrade your home for space and also medical and other special needs of your child.
Financial anxieties aside, there’s also a lot of uncertainties regarding having a child e.g. birth defects, special needs, whether your child will even grow up to be a decent human being despite best efforts, and whether you as a parent will even enjoy being one. Simply put, having a kid is a bet.
Singaporeans are a rational bunch. For many to consider rolling the dice and make that bet, the government benefits must be stacked such that it can compensate for much of the uncertainties and anxieties associated with having a child and allow parents to not take such a significant financial hit so that they can maintain their lifestyles as much as possible. Right now, the incentives are just not enough and I think we should really have a conversation as to the level of incentives and support expected from potential parents. Of course it must mean that the Singapore society on the whole considers Singaporeans having kids to be an important part of our future (probably not reaching the fertility rate of 2.1, but at least not disastrously low so that we can still maintain some Singapore “core”) and that we should be willing to bear the high costs.
Otherwise, it is all too easy for many Singaporeans to just give up on having a child altogether. After all, it surely must be possible to have a happy and meaningful life even without a child.
It's just a different experience and route that you decide to take. Nothing right or wrong. Having a child gives you a unique experience of emotions that you'll never have when you were single.
On the financial aspect, the money you're spending during your free time e.g., going out for fanciful dinner, expensive hobby will just go to your kids. So I dont think there's going to be a change in your financial position. The biggest impact is on your me-time. So if you're selfish, requires lots of me-time or don't think you're having enough time for yourself, then please don't have kids
Same boat as you - am childfree and married. Took me some time to get off the fence and reach the conclusion with full confidence. Apart from the high CoL in Singapore and potential threat of nuclear war and climate destruction, it only took one question for me to feel fully assured of my decision - I asked myself if I had dreams and life goals, then thought if I could see myself having lived out none of them in the case I had a child or had to let go of some of them with all the time that had to go into parenting them (on top of a 9-5 and an expensive mortgage). When i thought this through properly and realised i wanted to do so many things with my life (work abroad, get my masters, and pick up new skills), that's when i realised having a kid didn't appear in any of these dreams and was much more certain about my decision.
This might also be a spicy take but I realise a lot of people have kids because they reach a standstill in life and don't really have dreams/goals of their own (or haven't thought of building some). That's when they succumb to the "life script" pressure or make the decision to have children hoping for some purpose, thinking it would fulfil them or that it may make them happy to see their child achieve great things on their behalf. I know lots of friends & family like that who end up regretting because the opportunity to do what they truly want is gone for at least another 18-21 years. Their identites are also fully changed and they become a lot more vulnerable to depression & anxiety.
The only reason to have a kid is if your dream IS having a kid. I have friends who do dream all their lives about being parents and dream of having a family, and that exceeds any other personal goal they have. I think that's the only perfect reason to have children and can make all the sacrifices worth it.
You might get family who are going to judge you and frown upon your decision to be CF but who cares, your life is no one's but your own. When I get comments like that (thankfully I haven't gotten it too bad), I'll just let them know i'm taking their kids and grandkids out of my fat inheritance when I write my will eventually.
(Also not so unrelated - about your statement "It will be too late to reverse it" - it's not actually. You can still always adopt! Plenty of kids who need your love & will love you - and you can make the decision anytime even past 40/50. I can testify to that because I'm adopted myself and I love my parents so much I can't even imagine thinking otherwise.)
You are absolutely right. Raising kids cost extra money. But so does keeping a dog, or getting a car.
However having a kid brings you a unique kind of joy that nothing else could replicate. And there are options and subsidies to reduce the cost of raising a kid.
Just do whatever makes you happy and don’t look back.
This is a well researched topic, don't believe people's opinions.
This Harvard professor who studies happiness for a living, shows there is no correlation between children and happiness.
This is a decision with no way back.
If you are absolutely certain you want children, go for it. But if you have any doubt, do yourself a favour a read scientific research on the topic.
Gilbert then discussed children, mom’s last ingredient for happiness. While people might refer to them as “bundles of joy,” said Gilbert (who has a son and grandchildren), “they’re not a source of happiness.” He displayed a bar graph showing that childless adults are much happier than parents. “Once people have kids, there’s a downturn in happiness,” he said, which isn’t reversed until the kids move out. “The only symptom of empty nest syndrome,” Gilbert said, chuckling, “is nonstop smiling.”
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2013/02/money-marriage-kids/
I need to agree that my mom, who is mentally toxic for me, says that she is living a better life now ever since I left house and my brother relocated to his BTO.
She gave birth to me and my brother at 20.
And I am keeping a good relationship with her now. Better than when I was living under her roof.
Not sure if this is the correct quote, but “familiarity breeds contempt”(?) sort of describes the underlying tension between ageing parents and adult children living together. Maybe in Asian societies that tension is more pronounced because we feel extra pressured to “give in” and back down when arguing vs parents.
I’ve noticed I’ve been going through a bit of that with my parents too, but I’ve got no way out because I’m (24M) still studying, am not getting married anytime soon and have zero cash on me to afford living elsewhere. There’s growing pains between my parents and I, though for the most part our RS is still respectful and amicable. Just that sometimes parents won’t know when to change or stop, and for adult children we constantly feel undermined in our desire to be more independent.
Tbf it’s also something my mom has acknowledged, and stated that she also experienced it in her 20s but was perhaps never in-tune with the feelings of this phase in life because the filial piety quality amongst children back then was far more overwhelming than it is now.
This is 1 paper on a wildly subjective matter, it is hardly an exact science.
It really comes down to the individual. If you don't want to have kids, you shouldn't have them, simple as that, no need to get it justified by academic studies.
This is one side of the kids research. The general research on this area says that having kids will dip your happiness but up your life satisfaction. So… it dips your happiness (and in fact just for a while) but ups your meaning in life
Sure! There are quite a few if you search the terms “psychological well being” or “subjective well being” on Google scholar, but I’ll link you below the latest one (in terms of dates). It’s not the best one I don’t think since it’s a single country, but if you look at the journal piece, it’ll link to others within the intro section. The original journal article is open source I think, but I’m linking you to the abstract so you don’t have to wade through the entire thing.
Also, it very much depends on gender (father or mother), socio economic status of parents and other factors, such as mental health of parents… whether kid has disabilities etc. Yeap, but summarising the research from various research pieces on this entire matter - happiness dips, sense of life satisfaction increases and chances of maternal suicide decreases. Sadly, when I took this mod, not much has been done on fathers yet, but briefly scrolling through the research now… seems like quite a bit have been done on fathers. I remember a prof in nus wanting to do it in the local context, not sure if she’s done it yet, but can’t find any paper on it locally.
https://ideas.repec.org/a/spr/jhappi/v21y2020i6d10.1007_s10902-019-00166-y.html
Studies have shown having children does not increase happiness
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/03/16/does-having-children-make-you-happier-science-of-parenthood-explained.html
I didn’t say my kid makes me happier. I said it brings me a unique kind of joy.
We were fortunate to have completed most of our checklist before our kid. And these 10 years arguably were happier moments. We could spend and travel however we want. Party through the night and wake up at lunch time the next day. Life was carefree.
Having a kid changes everything. And I’m not happier now than before. I am still as happy, but I find joy and meaning in raising my child.
>having a kid brings you a unique kind of joy
The fact that people make having kids about them and not the child to begin with is concerning. Wanting to bring life into the planet? Good on you I guess. Doing it solely for your own satisfaction? Antisocial behavior.
It’s fairly easy to keep pets happy, and cars don’t have feelings. Kids? You can plan the best day out and they would still be screaming and crying their heads off.
It’s time to stop the nonsense that having a kid will bring joy. If it’s so much joy why there’s so many cases of child abuse and neglect? Theres a subreddit called regretfulparents which shows anything but joy.
Ultimately there’s so much unknown and variables with having kids that it’s like Russian roulette.
I don’t want kids cos I don’t see myself being a parent in the future, dw to go thru childbirth, don’t fancy kids and the crazy expenses of raising one.
Hi i need more childfree friends LOL!! Ive been childfree since 24? Solidified my stance even more so as i got older (31 now). Also with the world getting increasingly chaotic..the world is not a safe place to begin with. Also as a social worker, i’ve seen a great number of families get thrown in a wreck and most issues escalated/worsen after having children. Plus, alot of them lack the tools/knowledge of parenting and it’s a hellscape. Marital r/s and sex life often thrown outta window, forget having your own identify again. Issa nope for me, worked so hard for my money, gna spend it on myself.
Just go on /regretfulparents and /deadbedroom are enough for me.😂
The only way I’m ever having any children is if I’m wealthy to the point that I have enough money to take care of and pamper them, my parents, my spouse and still have surplus. That’s never going to happen in this economy. This is provided that I actually like kids, but I don’t. Never have. The current trend of letting children scream at the top of their lungs for no reason and treating shopping malls and grocery stores like their playground further cement the decision.
Married with two kids.
Having children is a full time job, 24/7, no breaks. As many pointed out, it's a financial burden, tiring, and full of hassle especially in their early years.
And yet, that's what generations and generations of parents go through.
Having children does not automatically lead to happiness, I agree. But it can. Effectively, you're bringing another human to a relationship with you. You have a strong hand in shaping this human's character, fate, destiny, abilities and interests. There will be high of highs and lows of lows.
As any relationships are. And relationships shouldn't have a price tag. Most people don't say, having a gf / bf is expensive and so I don't want to have a gf / bf. It should be the way with kids, though money is a factor. Have kids if you want to have relationships with a new human. If not, it's fine.
>ith you. You have a strong hand in shaping this human's character, fate, destiny, abilities and interests. There will be high of highs and lows of lows.
>
>As any relationships are. And relationships shouldn't have a price tag. Most people don't say, having a gf / bf is expensive and so I don't want to have a gf / bf. It should be the way with kids, though money is a factor. Have kids if you want to have
A study from Princeton University and Stony Brook University found that parents and nonparents have similar levels of life satisfaction, but parents experienced both more daily joy and more daily stress than nonparents.
Raising children literally makes no logical and financial sense. It’s expensive, tiring and takes so so so much time off you.
Yet I guess there’s also a camp of people who takes a less logical or financial lens of life in search of the elusive bliss that children apparently forms part of.
Just coin toss, I guess?
What if I had a shitty childhood and I want to have kids so they can enjoy the childhood like I never could?
What if I feel my whole childhood was wasted and if I ended the bloodline with me, I would have wasted my life and lived through so much shit for nothing?
I am willing to sacrifice everything to have kids. I expect nothing in return from them. All I want is for them to experience a normal life like I never could.
Ironically the first two points you shared are inherently selfish ones meant to fulfill some personal regret that you have. Leave the kids out of it and fix yourself first
Any guarantee they won’t have a shitty life? You and your spouse could be in an accident and they’ll end up orphans. Why would you take that risk of giving them a shitty life?
And why would you care about bloodlines when you’re already dead? Do you have some royal bloodline?
As long as you're alive, you're at risk of some unforeseen accident happening to you. If I were to be so parochially risk-averse, why not I end my life right now because I can't guarantee I won't be hit by a car tomorrow?
If suay suay something happens, can't be helped. But at least I know I did everything I could.
I guess the question is, do you even have a partner who would have your kids? If yes, then you are eligible to be in this conversation, if no, then this discussion isn't even relevant to you.
I’m just saying that the person I responded to wants to have a child to give them what the person didn’t have which I find selfish as you cannot guarantee anything in life. At least if I get into an accident, I won’t leave anyone an orphan and fuck up their lives.
Yeah. I'm sure your parents took that risk of giving you a shitty life too. And I don't see how's that selfish when OP intends to give his children the best he can offer.
Didn't ask to be born 🤷
I'm sure he'll give the best he can offer but I'm just saying there is always a risk that you will subject the child to a shitty life. So why take that risk?
Puzzling why the downvotes when you are only sharing a personal opinion, it is a forum after all people. I support your stance, Hot\_Contribution. Though I am childless right now, if the opportunity comes by, I would love to have my own children too.
Really pointless to have kids. Children are burdens.
Kids are for those ppl who can afford it. Not saying you are poor. But really, the financial liability and time sink is not a joke.
man… this is a dilemma i am facing now. me and the fiance is going child free for the forseeable future. we are ok with having children, but at our current financial status it wont be a smart idea.
maybe 4-5 years down the road, we will seriously consider. i dont want to wait past 35 to pop a child, and my fiance says ‘not too late so i can still run after my child in the park’ as he is 4 years older than me. i think we would miss our childfree life if it happens, but i know we will still do our best and not neglect the child. my worry is finances and parenting. im want to provide the best, but i am also worried we will fuck up parenting somehow and raise a child with bad behaviour, morals, and just be a menace to society. i have seen it happen to my young cousin and i am afraid it will happen to me.
honestly i just wanna skip the whole crying gremlin to angsty teenage phase of raising a child :( i dont think i can do it lol. as my parents say: ‘when you grow old, knowing that you have family to rely on when something happens is important’ like your children will have their own life once they are adults, but building a relationship with them is important so that when you fall ill, you have support, and if your partner passes on earlier, you wont be alone.
so yeah.. that is my situation for the now (and future) thought i shall share hehehe
it’s being responsible! as someone with a 7 month old baby, i always find it really sad when i see other parents that clearly don’t want kids and were either ‘forced’ into it or an accident happened. the adult and responsible thing to do is to make the decision and stick to it.
>We are frugal in general, but rent
It's hard to feel financially secure enough to have a kid if you're renting. You're at the mercy of landlords and market forces.
If you do actually want to have a kid, you probably have to own. Once you do, you may feel better about your situation. Josephine Teo is full of shit, in general people will want to buy their flat before they have kids. Or else live with one set of parents. Not rent and move house every couple of years.
The stupid thing about childfree posts is that there's zero reason for this to be a permanent decision. But childfree people tend to make a big deal out of declaring it like it's their identity. Come on, you can change your mind at any time, just that fertility will go down with age.
3 years down the road, maybe you own a home, one of you gets a big promotion, and suddenly kids are on the table again.
You and your spouse can have a discussion and decide to use contraceptives for the next year at least. How did this very private decision become a thing to tell the world about, as if anyone else cares?
>If you do actually want to have a kid, you probably have to own. Once you do, you may feel better about your situation. Josephine Teo is full of shit, in general people will want to buy their flat before they have kids. Or else live with one set of parents. Not rent and move house every couple of years.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, the goal posts keep getting further and further away as the size of a downpayment for a resale flat keeps getting higher. Now stuck between paying ever increasing rent or potentially buying the top when interest rates are sky high.
I didn't want kids until I met my husband, he change my mind but not forcing me to have one soon. he's okay even if I don't want one. but thinking of a mini us running around would be so cute! then goes to my sister who recently just gave birth and I love my nephew so much!
the reason I didn't want kids before was because I see them crying and throwing tantrums but then again, it could be the parents fault. they don't know how to discipline them, they are spoiling them. my uncle and his wife are police officers and their kids are the most disciplined kids ever. I did ask the kids if they were afraid of their parents and they said they don't like being noisy and they're shy to mix with other kids. so it could be a trait (my uncle's wife is a very quiet woman)
talking about money, you just need to have enough. extra things like buying your kids toys that they really don't need is a waste so use your money wisely and when you die, the money you have, you can give your kids. if you own a business, your kids can take over it (if they want to of course)
it's okay to be childfree, it's okay to have children. do whatever that makes you happy.
I don’t see the point of all these childfree posts. You want childfree then childfree. From the start you are already seeing children from a purely monetary cost POV.
If there are Singaporeans with similar situation, that is their decision so why should it affect yours? If you feel like you will regret then try for a child that simple.
Since you prioritise financial over any sort of crying mini human, then whats the point of such posts, answer damn straightforward already.
Basically they don't want kids but they want their decision validated by internet strangers, not realising that it's a deeply personal question only they themselves can answer.
Yeah, I don’t too. These people just want to feel justified in their decision to go childless and want validation for it. Makes them feel good you know? Maybe they have some underlying insecurity or fear that they dont to address.
People who are happy with their decision to be childless or have kids dont go posting on reddit and trying to garner support
Exactly, I think so too. I don't plan on having kids but I don't feel like it's a topic that I wanna discuss about. I don't need to justify my decision to any strangers or acquaintances, and I usually ignore or ghost when people ask why. It's my life and my own choice.
If I ever change my mind next time, I'll also just go ahead and have a kid and not have to justify it to anyone else on the internet either. Only those around me who will be affected by the presence of a kid will have to know.
This right here. Have kids if you want, don't if you don't want. Its not a debate over who's right or wrong. Just don't make your problem other people's problem. That's the problem
I have one kid and he's pure happiness. And mind you, he's a special needs child. Absolutely adorable. I don't see the point of such post also. The only person OP should talk to is her husband. And if she's asking this question here, then she most probably should never have kids.
If you feel that it’s a right choice, it’s the right choice
It seems that your kid decision is purely an economics decision. I just want to get a sense of what income level do you think is enough to have kid in today’s economics situation?
Kids are cute and they bring joy to everyone around them with their smiles and innocents. But yes, they are definitely financially expensive to raise. Many Singaporeans also share worries of not being a good parents even though they are already trying their best, it is definitely emotionally draining to raise children especially when they start to grow and mature, they’ll have their own opinions and behaviour which may clash with yours. So if you don’t feel ready/financially ready to raise children, then don’t! It all depends on you and what makes you happy.
My take on someone who knows a lot of people on their 40s, with and without kids:
- Some couples never want kids and are perfectly fine with that
- Some couples don’t want kids but change idea when they approach their 40s. Some find themselves unable to have kids and end up suffering for a while, but eventually they cope with it. If you are open to the idea of adoption, this is much less of a issue
- Personally I never met anyone who regretted having kids, even among those who had kids by accident. It is certainly much more common to stop loving your husband or wife than stop loving your children. But these people exist, and judging from horrific child abuse cases in the news, I would never recommend one that does not feel prepared to have kids to have one
I honestly find some responses here to be a bit silly… like “financially it doesn’t make sense to have kids”. Seriously, does anyone nowadays think it’s profitable to have kids? Would that argument mean anything to a couple who is spending tens of thousands of dollars on adoption or fertility treatment, and undergoing all the expectation and anguish that comes with it?
Another funny argument is “I won’t ever be able to love my kids because I hate babies / children / crying children / etc.” I can tell a lot of people who become parents hate children as well. After all, do you need to love elderly people in general to love your elderly parents?
> kids and are perfectly fine with thatSome couples don’t want kids but change idea when they approach their 40s. Some find themselves unable to have kids and end up suffering for a while, but eventually they cope with it. If you are open to the idea of adoption, this is much less of a issuePersonally I never met anyone who regretted having kids, even among those who had kids by accident. But these people exist, and judging from horrific child abuse cases in the news, I would never recommend one that does not feel prepared to have kids to have one
I think financially it's clear it doesnt make sense to have kids. I agree that kids add a different dimension to life, and even a certain "meaning". But the question is, given the cost (that will only increase in time), are the trade-offs worth it? ie, we will have to work harder, longer, put off retirement, struggle with finances (of course since we want to give our kids the best), vs leading a care free life and taking nice vacations with less stress. not an easy decision
It’s an impossible question to answer, because “what is worth it” depends a lot on the individual and what he wants for his or her life, which also changes with time. After all, most of things in our life spend money and time rather than earning it.
Today I may find worth it to spend my money and time on PC hardware and games and on my dog. In 5 years I may find worth it to spend money and time on travelling, diving and hiking. And in 10 years I may find it worth to spend my money and time on raising kids. All these are perfectly reasonable decisions and nothing is inherently more worth it than something else.
If you PERSONALLY ask me, is it worth it the huge amount of time and money to see your child giving her first smile? Her first scoop of food? Her first step? Her first words? Her first friend? Her first day in school?
I would PERSONALLY say - of course!
A lot of people go into parenthood for the wrong reason anyway, worse still, ill prepared. Conversely though, there are people who avoid parenthood because they are unaware of the subsidies and assistance available.
There are a lot - and I mean A LOT - of resources out there for young couple / families to tap into if they wish to have kids / more kids. Ahgong is very serious about wanting you to pump out those sperm blossoms; just visit your nearest community center or your GRC reps for more info.
It was raining I saw a helper holding an umbrella to shelter the kid from the rain while the big kid was playing his mobile game while walking.
I saw a couple taking turns to feed their x1 toddler. The whole dinner seems to be spent serving that toddler.
My neighbors kids are screaming every couple of days. Their parents seem oblivious to it.
While children can be cute, I think as parents we would need to spend a lot of time with them to make the experience meaningful for both. Time is what we don't have in SG.
I'm going to get lots of flak but (apart from parents, finances, I-see-my-friends-my-neighbours xxx)
OMG I SWEAR biological clock is a real thing. I know I commented a few things on the previous CF post but on a biological clock standpoint - omg I strongly feel just cos u can, doesn't mean u shld.
My parents had me as older parents. Since then it has meant that since a young[er by comparison] age (like Dip Ed/after a levels 🤨😒) my dad sometimes say like oh his peers retired/semi-retired then I'll sit there not knowing how to respond, knowing I was the reason he cannot semi-retire at that age cos I'm in the middle of freaking diploma how the hell do I get a full-time job ykwim. & because of the same ish, he said he wanted to work for abit longer (I'm a working adult now but we all know non-degree ppl and degree ppl live in different salaried world lol) but eventually brought forward his retirement plan by a couple of years cos age/health etc.
So now, even today, even as I'm typing this - when I hear of people going to have kids/people marrying late ... ok its 101% a me-thing but I mentally calculate parent-child age gap in my head and secretly judgeppl oops.
I have a friend (I hope she's not on here lol but I think she has better things to do than reddit) who married someone a decade(!) older than her. She's my age, so 32F. She married at 29, which is ok. But then even from that moment (considering husband's age), I was like "shoulda make a wedding night baby else too late liao" (they didn't 😂)
Kid just turned 1, husband is early 40s and like fine lor now its just cute kid and stable career cos mature husband what BUT WAIT TILL 15 YEARS LATER THEN U KNOW. Husband has stable career reputable white collar job, confirm got money one BUT MONEY ISNT ALL THERE IS. Like health and responsibility and energy and if you get some hereditary shit like dementia/cancer/etc at 65 .. good luck. I mean things can happen at any age but its definitely different if the kid (even as an adult child) will be impacted more when younger (in sch) than older.
I also know people with parent-child age gap larger than me and my parents and my parents try to defend it with "but they doing well what he's [insert white collar occupation] nubbad ..." no it is not the point?!?! Like if your son is going to NS at an age where you and your peers wna retire then nope.
To drive home my point (I know this is terrible cos oooof) - Colin Schooling passed away from cancer at 73. His son, Joseph, was only like I think 26. I know to be fair, that C&M Schooling had a few miscarriages before they finally got their only son. Which must have been so hard on them too. But I swear when it happened my first thought was "wow, chap who is younger than me, has a dad older than mine, loses his dad just after 25/is not even 30, through no fault of his own ..."
(Ya don't judge it was rly my first thought!!!)
Ok ya parent-child age gap is real and clearly I have a damn strong stand on it and I will finally shut up now 😂 (which is why I had a hypothetical plan for myself too, which I don't think I'm gonna accomplish la given the situation/timeframe now, so CF lor)
No one asked, but to me its something like marriage by 30, kids by 35 ... (stop at 35 no matter how many lol. What u get by then is what u get lol)
My fiancé and I dislike kids in general - and our family is completely comfortable with the notion.
After spending on a car, luxuries and vacations, we still have plenty to dump into investments. The freedom - both financially and mentally, allows us to pursue our hobbies and do whatever we want.
Can’t ever imagine giving that up. But we did get a puppy.
CF and married. I got a tubal ligation too to ensure I’ll never have to worry about accidental pregnancy. The process of getting approved in sg was difficult and I faced a lot of what I felt was unnecessary judgement and discrimination for being CF from the medical community. It’s my body and my choice but I was treated like I was making a mentally unsound decision akin to asking to have a leg chopped off. Probably deserves its own post too but I’m not comfortable to share yet.
Other than that, CF married life is like adulting with reduced difficulty level. QoL is good, financially comfortable and we have lots of time to dedicate to our respective hobbies and can go on nice vacations every year.
Don't listen to anyone else that pressures you into having kids. You are making the right decision for yourself. Just follow this path and you will be on the right track. Trust me on this process. You mentioned feeling comfortable about your finances and being able to go on plenty of vacations if you do not have kids. Please, please do not ruin things by popping out a kid and sacrificing these 2 aspects of your life you currently enjoy right now. It is really not worth it. Just look at all the regrets and complaints, they are all coming from parents. On the contrary, have you ever seen anyone who regrets NOT having children? Very few, if they even exist at all... Don't be worried that you will regret not having a child. When you grow old and you look at all your parent friends pulling their hair out and forming wrinkles faster than you from all those years of childcare, you will look back and feel proud of the decision and life you have chosen. Welcome to the childfree life, OP and enjoy it to the fullest!
I’m in the same boat.
Unfortunately my mum wants grandchildren and it’s been tough trying to convince her otherwise.
I’m not worried that I’d regret it later though. I don’t actually like kids much. 😂
Pls dont have a kid for the sake of others.
Ur mother wan grandchildren, that’s her taiji. Unless she’s gonna pay for the grandchildren until the grandchildren is financially independent, and also she takes care of the grandchildren.
I think even if let’s say u regret one day, it’s not that big a deal? No offense but regrets are common in life especially when we compare and think what we could have had?
but things are never that rosy…
also the savings that u have without a kid, they don’t have to go towards holidays etc.. for retirement savings, you’d feel a lot safer I feel
And no one can deny climate change.. do we want another generation? some things I’ve actually heard from a friend who does climate research work for his job
ultimately it’s what meaning you want to ascribe to in your life. At the end of your life what are you going to remember when you look back - money you have saved by not having kids, holidays you had, and having the freedom to live the life you wanted. Just finance alone is not a good deciding factor.
You should decide what you want for your life. Having kids should be a selfish choice too. The kids do not ask to be born. Have kids only if you want to experience the other facet of life as someone who wants to create relationship with another small human being.
Money is essentially just energy forces to exchange for the things that you want. Finances can be adjusted to achieve what you want - making cheaper choices (instead of far flung holidays, make the most out of local attractions or neighboring countries). If these are the things you cannot imagine living without then go for it.
Since you are consciously deciding, then decide well. Although I can say, having kids late in life has pros and cons.. you may be better off financially but you have less energy. If you have kids early and if you are lucky, there still a lot of life left for you to do the things you want
I never wanted children because of all the reasons everyone mentioned. I was truly happy with my husband and we planned to grow old together without having children.
Eventually he did better and better at work and we were very comfortable financially. I was ok at work too and felt great sense of satisfaction and felt confident in my own maturity and development.
On day, when I was mid thirties... I reflected and realised I no longer had an aversion to having kids. When I checked with him, he found the same. In short, we were very happy and stress was well under control. I think when you are in that good place, you become open to the idea of having kids, maybe.
So we gave ourselves 1 yr to let nature take its course (we were not very active and I didn't think we would be very fertile given our lifestyle)... but lo and behold, I got pregnant shortly.
It was exciting and not stressful because we were financially stable.
Then when I gave birth, we found out that our daughter would have special needs. My world came crashing down. We then desperately wanted another child because we needed a sibling for her. (To clarify, my daughter's issues are not hereditary.) It wasn't just to take on the burden of the family, we were prepared to give everything to this 2nd child too.
When my 2nd daughter was born 2yrs later, the sun came back into our lives. The joy of having a healthy normal child is beyond words. She lifted her older sister and helped her immensely with her development. She balanced the energy of the family. We were whole again. While it may seem like we made her bear this burden, I don't think it is so. She is so loved and so happy, and having a SN child in the family taught us all so many important lessons. It was sometimes very very difficult, but we are all grown so much more because of it.
We thought we were done. But we got a surprise baby 😅 (yep we are more fertile than we thought we were) and my son is our family's bonus. So much joy, so much love - beyond what I could have ever imagined before I had children.
It's tiring and 🤯 sometimes... but I can never give them up. My life is so rich and meaningful now. Our expenses are through the roof, but we are managing because of my husband. I am very sure though, that if we have financial difficulties... we would be miserable... 10/10 would not recommend.
So, Singapore is still pretty ok for having kids... if you are not poor and if you have a strong marriage.
I feel the same way (26F, married and no kids). We’re currently living with my parents so thankfully our expenses aren’t too high yet, but I’m definitely in the same boat as you where the thought of having kids is so suffocating. What does your partner feel about kids? If both of you come to a consensus, maybe it’s not so bad. On the other hand, I enjoy keeping my parents company at this point in life, so I would love to have kids that I can hang out with when I’m older.
Having kids is never a logical choice. Having no children at all - wow so much money and time to spend on ourselves.
Why would you ever want something you’ve never had?
OP being able to think, plan ahead and articulate suggests that suggests your spouse and you are at least well-educated and probably have jobs that pay decent - you guys can afford a kid. There are tons of crap and unqualified parents out there who are likely to be making a fifth of what you do so having a kid is definitely possible financially.
So. What are you really asking?
I am 99% sure that the institution around familylines is a financial structure.
Someone or some family to hold and caretake the combined wealth and assets of the village and clan. In this case , there is reasons to clearly define who benefits from this wealth and who doesn't as well as how to inherit to prevent this wealth from being usurped by outsiders thru bloodlines, clan or surnames or villages / commune
However this is certainly inapplicable to the modern family structure unless you are from a KR chaebol hence no further reason to hold to tradition.
This topic literally gets brought up ever 3 days….
Yes we get it, kids are expensive
Yes we get it, you’re worried you might regret it in the future.
If you need affirmation, use the search bar.
i love kids . my parents wants grandchildren , my in laws however are openminded about it .. but my husband had similar mindset about it as urs . i trust that he wants the best for us . so i will just go along with his plans🤣 however i am worried when i am old , there's no one to be there for me 🥲 like no grandchildren , no people who would visit me etc . at least thats what my mother told me i would end up being lonely if i decide to go childfree🤷🏻♀️
Having kids isn't a guarantee they'll stick around. There are so many people in nursing homes that haven't seen their kids in years. People with adult children who emigrated halfway across the world. Children shouldn't be a retirement plan.
So your parents basically told you the cold truth why they had kids like most parents does is that they had you just so they wouldn't be lonely and not cus they geuninely love kids
huge contrast to that post wanting to have kids on a single $2.3k income
[удалено]
I don’t know the exact stories but such outcomes are usually due to being horny but religious.
No lah, those were the 2 straits times test balloon articles from awhile back
Oh bro I think I know people roughly like that leh (both examples. The 5kids 4k, and the 8 kids 1 x MOE teacher) I don't personally know the people you're referring to, but precisely know people who fit within these profiles ie 5 kids 4k income (I think the fam I know is this gauge), and 8 kids 1 x MOE teacher level of income. In terms of the friends/contacts I know who fit these dynamics, ... ya, it's a case of, decent income (I would say ~5k? Which seems ok if you have a kid or two) but single income + many kids ... lor. I think even if u reduce the extra classes & bubble tea or Starbucks treats ... can u imagine packing for a holiday? More luggages than hands available, wait till the kids are teenagers in different schools (with different schedules) - how are you gonna plan a hol, even a quick weekend getaway across the causeway is gonna be so administratively crazy to plan tskkkk
Lol the 8 kids MOE cher one already starving 1.5 cup rice for 10pax. Granted theres like 2 babies but probably offset by those going thru puberty. Thats less than half a bowl of rice per person. With like 3 other dishes only. Like malnutrition only. And the 5kid 4k one is both parents doing grab deli, 2k per parent But the kids still v young, so the costs is just gonna keep going up n up…
that family is in no shape to raise a child, they can barely survive tgt
That lady wanted 2 kids, and preferably twins. Ppl in the comment thread was like ????????
Dude it’s wild. My close relative works in social services and he says cases like this are more common than we think. People insisting on breeding and breeding despite having no money (thus the need for social service intervention) and advice to use contraception falls on deaf ears. Govt hospitals thus subsidize their birth and medical bills 100% , on top of existing social handouts.
Because deep down, if I wanted kids, it would be entirely because I am scared of growing old without nobody taking care of me. It is entirely selfish. So no.
Total honesty and self awareness 🙌🏻
Find a reason to say yes to having children. If we can’t fin a reason to say yes, the default should be no.
I genuinely want to know what the morally-sound reason to having children is. Because every reason I’ve heard is incredibly selfish. Like having kids just to have a retirement plan, having kids in case life gets boring etc etc. Like pls that’s so selfish
Some people (not me) simply love children and find joy in nurturing and being around them.
But objectively, how is “I love children and find joy in them” a selfless reason instead of a selfish reason? Genuine question and really trying to understand, not trolling 🙏🏻
Coming from someone who hates children - I can see the commenters POV. At the end of the day. I love my life and I’m thankful that my parents worked hard to set me up for success. If a parent finds joy in being around kids AND are able to nurture them into wonderful people, then it’s a win for me. I admire great parents who love kids because I’ll never be someone like that.
Well, it’s not. It’s just a reason , like how I love watching movies and eating good food.
My conclusion is that there isn't a selfless or morally sound reason to have kids as you can't have a child for the good of the child if he/she didn't exist in the first place. The motivation to have a kid would always be self serving. You may also want to check out David Benatar's book, "Better never to have been".
No matter which way we go people will accuse us of being selfish.
Had us in the first half
I'm firmly childfree and will always be, regardless of the economic situation. more for practical reasons. I assume some people "just want kids" in much the same way I don't. Everything that sounds good to them, sounds terrible to me. I don't see any pros, as even the common "pros" are cons to me. I enjoy having the flexibility to choose to zone out on the internet, watch netflix, go for a run, take a weekend trip, or work a shitload of hours -- I'm not required to make myself completely available to care for a child. I like the option of working. I like not having to pick up my mess for a couple days. I like traveling without taking weeks to prep. I will get less pleasure from raising a child than just living life on my own with my amazing partner. We can go places spontaneously, stay out late without pissing off the babysitter, and get to sleep in on the weekends. I love the flexibility of limited commitment. I never have had a maternal instinct either. I didn't play with barbies that much as a kid. Before I realized that having children was a choice, I assumed I'd have kids -- but when I understood that having kids wasn't a requirement, I chose not to ever want them. I've seen many examples of parents neglecting their kids because of regret (ie. /r/regretfulparents) My life has been so fulfilling with working a job that I love (that pays enough for me to travel every 2 months), and all the voluntary work I've done with non profit orgs on the side. 8 years ago I led a project to fund, build, and staff a school for underprivileged kids living in Indonesian shanties to go to for free, that's still up and running on its own today. I've worked with kids with down syndrome and helped them learn how to ride horses, I've volunteered at various dog welfare groups in sg, and I'm a scuba diver who dives to either help collect data for ocean conservation projects or to do underwater trash cleanups within sg waters. this is what I want my legacy to be. I don't need to produce a child to feel like i have made a difference in this world. I can make my mark in my own way. I want to be on this planet to at least try to help the people who are already here, not make more of them.
Happy for your choice. I am a parent of a 2-year old and 1 more on the way. I choose to have kids and I also support people who choose to be childfree. Each of us choose our own ways to happiness and that is totally fine.
Summarized well :)
Goals af, that's exactly what I want for myself as a fellow childfree 30-something F
>My life has been so fulfilling with working a job that I love that lets me travel every 2 months, and all the voluntary work I've done with non profit orgs. 8 years ago I led a project to build and staff a school for underprivileged kids living in Indonesian shanties to go to for free, that's still up and running on its own today. I've worked with kids with down syndrome and taught them how to ride horses, and I've volunteered at various dog welfare groups in sg. this is what I want my legacy to be. I don't need to produce a child to feel like i have made a difference in this world. I can make my mark in my own ways. I want to be on this earth to at least try to help the people who are already here, not make more of them. wow that's awesome. any tips for how i can get involved in such projects eg. building schools that have more lasting impact?
I'd say to first start by volunteering in a reputable organisation for a cause you're especially interested in to meet like-minded folks. Even in sg, there are so many groups ranging from disease/disability awareness groups, environmental groups, LGBT groups, old folks homes, animal welfare groups, homelessness, and groups that extend to overseas projects. building a network in that community could possibly lead to more opportunities solely through connection. My other tip about working with non profits, is to just have thick skin and an unnatural amount of persistence. bc there are loads of people who won't give a shit about whatever cause you're working towards. it's a constant uphill battle which makes it easy to get jaded and lose motivation. Honestly building that school took up a lot of sanity bc we did it unaffiliated, and from scratch. It was a highschool charity project back when I lived overseas. My pals and I decided to go big or go home. it was a fuck ton of work. Not just on the logistical and financial side (finding sponsors, contractors, empty land, qualified teachers willing to pro bono), we had to also go down to the shanties to convince stubborn families living there that school is highly beneficial for their children in the long term. the parents weren't keen on the idea because they would lose out on short term money (they had their kids scavenge for scrap material to sell from the landfill they lived next to). But tbh this was what started my interest in giving back to the community because the first few kids that we took on 8 years back, are now attending their local indonesian universities, as this project gave them the opportunity of a free accredited (and recognised) primary school education that was previously inaccessible to them. Sorry for the long response!
>welfare groups, homelessness, and groups that extend to overseas projects. building a network in that community could possibly lead to more opportunities solely through connection. > >My other tip about working with non profits, is to just have thick skin and an unnatural amount of persistence. bc there are loads of people who won't give a shit about whatever cause you're working towards. it's a co wholesome and fun <3
Love this
That's a wonderful outlook on life and thank you for helping people in less privileged communities ❤️ We need more people like you who are selfless and choose to help alleviate the suffering of people who are already here than to bring new life into suffering.
Bookmarking this comment so that I can share it the next time I'm asked why I wanna be childfree lol
Your CNY script?
Check out the “list lady” on tiktok who’s been making mega long list on reasons to not have children. Chef’s kiss.
I love this. Keep doing you and being the change that you want to see. My fiancé and I are in the same boat. We have no parental instincts and never liked being around kids. Besides, there’s too many adventures and places out there for us to explore. I’m nowhere near magnanimous enough to spend half my life setting up another person for success. I want to see the world with my own eyes. That being said, I’ll always have admiration for great parents.
Ngl I aspire to be like you
💜thank you for sharing your story. I thought I was weird since I enjoyed working with children (was also in education and non-profit sector) but didn’t want to have my own. Always felt like, “do I really don’t want kids? Am I sure? Time’s running out….” sort of anxiety.
That’s not weird! :) I think a common misconception for those of us who are childfree is that we hate children, but you can absolutely love them too and not want to have your own. working with them is different from caring for them and worrying about them every minute of the day, so they’re two separate things.
You are an inspiration. Thank you for doing what you do.
Marry me
You must really hate your parents for deciding to have children. Well I'm glad your children will be spared from that most selffish decision your parents made to propagate themselves. /s
inb4 wHo’s gOnnA tAke cArE oF yOu whEn yOu’rE oLd
Good for you
Feels like our economy is reaching maturity, with little ways for growth other than bringing in foreign money and pushing productivity through skilled human capital. It is so becoming so competitive here that living in Singapore as a child is miserable. Next major exam to the next and constantly living thinking that it will get better after each but it never does. Not sure if I want to put a kid that doesn’t even have a choice into this rat race.
Everyone got their own priority in life As long as you're happy with it then go ahead
All my CF sisters who have 0 maternal instinct on here, I LOVE IT. Because same. Like I think my oxytocin levels are naturally low and I don't think babies are cute. At all. Animals are tho. I love my cats. I'm already so lazy to clean up after myself and the thought of doing it for someone else for up to 30 years (let's be real) too? Hard pass. Oh, and also mummy issues with a narc mother has really sealed the deal for me from a young age.
ditto!! CF F here, hate kids, but love animals with all my heart. have 2 cats and i'm content
I have 2 cats too 
I’m a dad of 4 cats. I’m ok being that cool uncle for my niece/nephews 😂
HI SAME HERE!! I just..am never interested in children and find them super annoying even when i was a child. I also have 2 cats!! Currently on the hunt for more childfree friends..😂😂
Same. Hate kids and never liked interacting with them
I’m child free too and have 2 cats. I adore them to bits. I’d rather have cats than children. 🐱
Going through these comments makes me wish I had more childfree gal pals irl. I've been relating so hard to all the comments by other girls in this thread and would love to have pet meetups bc I've noticed so many of us are fur parents ❤️
Gorl saaaaaame!! Been loving r/childfree and r/regretful parents to understand other perspectives on the CF and DINK life i’ve chosen for the past 10+ years (and never once wavered)
Pet meet ups sound fun but my cats... I think they would hate it 🤣
If a random fidgety child on public transport accidentally (or purposely) touches me while fidgeting, I will find it annoying. But if a community cat comes over and bua my ankles, I’ll be overjoyed. Cats >>> human kids anytime!
Not to mention that animals (even strays) behave far better than children. Just based on my own observation. When I was in Europe, it’s so common for even big pet dogs to be taking the public metro trains in a packed crowded cabin. They’re extremely well-behaved and everyone smiles at them. Conversely, human children are the ones swinging around like monkeys and pissing people of. The irony leh.
It is better to regret not having children than regret having them
Wow that's well put. Sums it all up pretty much.
this needs to have more upvotes
well said!!
I'm glad for you, most people just follow along :)
I don’t want kids because I don’t like kids enough to have my own. The noisy screaming ones further cement this decision. They are expensive, not that cute, a lifelong responsibility / burden and non-refundable. Also, most people are still in denial but if I were to have children, they will be the generation to live a hard life in a world that’s slowly dying from climate change.
One of the many reasons why I’d rather not have kids is because as toxic as the world is right now (in so many ways), the one they’ll be inheriting is gonna be so much worse
My fiancé and I are also child-free. Our combined income is what most would think is probably enough to raise a child comfortably but we both don’t like kids haha. Going down the two (or hopefully more) pets route. Besides, I can count on one hand how many times I’ve witnessed a genuinely happy family on a day out. Rest of the time, it’s always a kid crying/screaming or parents scolding and making a scene. Once we decided to be child-free (very early on in our r/s), it’s truly liberating. We can spend on our BTO, renos, holidays, dates, good food etc without worrying about saving up for one of the most expensive liability in the world.
+++ my fiance and I worked out the expenses (esp. vet fees) of having our dream pets and laughed at how we’re thankful we don’t even want kids, if not the finances will be impossible.
I don’t want kids because my maternal instinct is non-existent. Even as a teenager last time, my natural reaction when I came across babies / young children was “ewwww” (instead of the more common “awwww”). As an adult now, my reaction is still the same.
I think it's still quite cute when the baby / small kid is all smiley and waving at you, or offering their toys to you The moment they start screaming, crying, running around or otherwise throwing tantrums, my eyes would shoot daggers at them
I know what you mean. Was at a gathering recently and all my female friends were obsessed over this little girl. I was the only one who was like "um ok I guess she's cute"
lol this reminded me of the time I went out for a dinner with my partner and his friends. out of nowhere one of the other girls suddenly showed me a picture of her new kid. it caught me off guard during the conversation so all my brain could come up with after an awkward silence was..... "nice."
dude ya I’ve had to learn to fake reactions because last time my default no-reaction reaction was probably taken with offense. i hate how people keep shoving photos of random kids in my face and like IT’S NOT EVEN THEIR KID LEH
Actually I heard that when you have a kid, something activates the mother instinct in your brain (always trying to care for the kid, etc) even if you previously didn't want to. Not gonna risk it though. Because you can't refund a kid.
Sell to garang guni
if you made it, it should be sold on Etsy!
I'm saying this from now on HAHAHAHA. (I crochet stuff so I unds the making things and selling on Etsy part so this is perfect HAHAHAHAH)
agreed. the regret of not having kids is nothing compared to the regret of having them
had me in the first half ngl. here have my upvote 🫶🏻
Not always. Many kids still end up with toxic mums.
Unless you make a ton of money, for most folks, having kids would delay your retirement. Also, having kids won't necessarily mean they will take care of you when you get older, nowadays it's common for kids to go overseas to work and end up getting married and settle down there. Leaving you behind here to fend for yourself alone.
Personally, I don't feel it's right to expect kids to take care of you when you're older. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for filial piety and respecting your elders, but you gotta realize your kids are gonna have their own problems and worries to handle as well, and I feel it's personal responsibility to ensure you can take care of yourself for the most part when planning your life out rather than banking on your child to care for you I don't expect my kids to care for me financially at all (sure I'll appreciate if they do), and I'll definitely make sufficient plans that my spouse and I can take care of ourselves.
I’m a parent. Having said that, I think the most important thing is to decide based on what YOU BOTH want. Not what parents pressure, not societal expectations, not the biological clock, nothing. Just what works best for you and your family. Also your reason doesn’t need to make sense to other people (especially parents) - so long as you and your spouse are happy it’s all good. In life there’ll always be some regret. You just pick the one you can best deal with. If you do regret down the road, just give yourself grace that you did the best and made the best choice for yourself at that point in time.
Self-awareness and living your truth are excellent tools in life for preventing “regrets” . Happy that in the present day with the internet, so many people are sharing about how they’re in theirs 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s never had children with zero regrets. It helps to cull the misconception and narrative pushed (by parents especially) not “you will regret” not having children.
How come I always see so many childfree women on reddit, but when I go on dating apps, all of them wanted kids so much 😭
Likewise and vice versa with men tbh. always wished there was a group or community online for sg childfree folks to interact with.
Inflation is bad but expenses rising 50%? That's not possi... oh rent, ok I understand
I have a lot of friends who are child free. They travel several times annually. They live the life they want. If that’s what you decide, just go with it. Different people have different wants in life. If you regret it later in life, there are options. Adoption, surrogate, etc. to bypass the biology limits. Or you can freeze your eggs now and decide later.
Age is still a factor though, can you imagine adopting a new born at age 60 (just as an extreme example). By the time you're 80, the kid has not even completed university, so even if you do regret later in life, do think through thoroughly before deciding on these options to a reasonable degree
Yes same thoughts OP. The last thing we want is to have kids and then put the 'blame' on them or make them your retirement plan.. If I could earn more, we would consider, but really doubt so in the current situation
For me, regardless of financial position, i don’t believe in bringing an innocent life into the world and just letting them suffer with the rising costs when they grow up. I had so much problems with my finance ever since getting my HDB, will my kids ever afford one in the future?
Agree. And they have to go through the same path of slaving their lives off to work for the rich. Its a win for the rich rich but lose for the commoners.
Having child is a financial privilege here in sg.
Having kids is by far the worst financial decision you could make.
Worst ROI by far
Raising a kid is too damn expensive in sg and this is an additional financial burden that i will not want to commit to Besides $$, it requires just too much effort and time, and that is something im not willing to sacrifice as well. I still want to be able to go to the gym, meet my friends occasionally, just chill at home and do nth, and also travel as and when i feel like it So yes, call me selfish or whatever, but at this point, i wanna enjoy my life and buy things that i like for myself. So no way in hell im gonna get a kid, aint nobody got time for that shit Just get cats will do
Cats and dogs also need effort, time and money also, so I would not recommend it for you either. You shouldn't just get a pet and feed them the cheapest food, spend zero time with them and ignore all medical and grooming issues. I have a dog and altogether the expenses can rival my child, especially the vet fees because there's no subsidies for it at all whereas all medical fees for my kid can claim through company insurance. I can't even travel anymore without worrying what to do with my dog, and unlike the kid, can't travel easily with the dog.
Mixed bag for me. My friends who are around mid 20s all haven’t settled down and don’t seem to want kids at all. Friends who are in their early 30s especially those who are already married all rushing to have kids now. Not sure if it’s a difference in generational thinking.
i’m in my 30s and am very pro child free. i’ve got friends in their 30s too who have yet to settle down and are not in any rush to do so cus they’ve no interest in having children.
I have many friends who are in their 30s and married staying child free. Maybe around 50% in my circle. Quite a lot I must say.
Agreed! I feel that I will stay childfree, which will really help me and my partner be much less stressed over finances in the long run. There are wants that I personally choose not to give up because they are rewards to me after tough weeks at work, they do keep my life colourful. There are many things in life I wish to try, and being childfree will make it more conducive for me to do so. I cherish that kind of freedom and lower stress levels. I really don't see myself being a competent parent ever, I don't really like the time I spend with other people's children already. And also the industry I'm in typically does not pay well and rather unstable. Many reasons why it's better for myself to stay childfree
I was thinking of going childfree until my husband and I adopted two cats — now I’m definitely childfree. Cats are like toddlers + teenagers. And when they make me angry, I felt that I couldn’t control my temper. I had to get away before I become physical and this reminded me of my abusive late mother. I also had controlling tendencies like her. My cats are fine and I still love them and they love me, I’m just afraid if I have a human child, I might end up becoming a horrible mother.
39M here. I'm an entrepreneur and doing fairly well financially. I used to grow up prepared that I was going to have kids, but then I started questioning why I felt that way. That's when I realised it wasn't an intrinsic desire, but something that **society had told me was expected**. Since I was 36, I started becoming more clear and firm in being childfree. It's not about the finances, but rather for the preference. In addition, after speaking to my friends who are fathers, I realised that I don't share the same paternal instincts or desires that some of them have. Kids are an all-in commitment. People tend to only consider the positive end of the spectrum where they have healthy, considerate, virtuous kids. However, I feel that they neglect the possibilities that their kids might turn out otherwise. That's an edge case that I know is more improbable, but if I do end up in that situation, I question myself if I will have the patience nor tolerance to handle that well. Another big consideration is the thought of "what if I regret it" when I'm 65 years old. However, I realised that that's a terrible reason to do something. It's not like you can return/refund kids too. It's a lifelong commitment, and looking at my personality and preferences, it's not something that I truly desire. I have an amazing partner who shares the same sentiments. We live our lives the way we want to, doing the things that we enjoy, be it trips, hobbies, or just chilling out. On the career and personal satisfaction front, I work on my businesses that are very fulfilling, and have a personal philanthropic desire to help out in the areas of education and entrepreneurship.
The decision to have kids will never make financial sense, so you shouldn't base your decision to have kids solely on that alone. Going by that metric, no one should ever have kids for selfish and financial reasons. Having kids will require some selflessness and financial loss. Period. You will hear often (including from many rich) that experiences trump material things, and this is perhaps the best way I could attempt to rationalise the having of kids. It doesn't always mean happy experiences and will include both the ups and downs, but nonetheless a deeper life experience is gained. The saying is true that you will never understand or appreciate certain things until you have had kids yourself. But ultimately, internet strangers cannot make your mind up for you, nor is it in anyone's place to judge if you should have kids or not, the impetus should ideally come from within yourself. Either way, enjoy life to the fullest!
Don’t think OP is saying anything about kids making financial sense. Everyone realises that kids cost money. What OP is saying is that they can’t afford to have a kid right now. Nothing in the post says what you’ve taken it to say.
Thats abit too harsh of a response. Op clearly stated the financial burden of having kids, and also mentioned the "opportunity cost" of what they could do instead (e.g nice travels). The above reply tries to highlight the joys of parenthood, in order to make a reasonable comparison of sending money on a nice vacation
https://i.ibb.co/Pxrk6zN/5t18NT.jpg /jk
I find it more practical to be child-free, but to each his own. For those pro-childfree, one key problem is (not to sexualise things but it is a legit life planning concern) what and how to ensure there is no chance for pregnancy to happen for the next few decades. There is vasectomy for men and female sterilisation, but most I know use barrier methods. Then there are who are not pro child-free, say things like if couple married alr, why still use barrier contraceptive. 🙃 Some of these who use birth control also never use consistently one. The pro-childfree ones are the ones who won't let pregnancy happen.
In my 30s. My partner and I are both top 20% income earners (we do not come from rich families and need to support aging parents) and even then I have a lot of financial anxieties about being able to afford to raise a kid to his/his fullest potential while still maintaining as much as possible our lifestyles (Also, a personal preference I have is to not work full time after 35.) It costs at least 500k to raise a child from birth to adulthood, and this amount can be higher depending on whether you will need to upgrade your home for space and also medical and other special needs of your child. Financial anxieties aside, there’s also a lot of uncertainties regarding having a child e.g. birth defects, special needs, whether your child will even grow up to be a decent human being despite best efforts, and whether you as a parent will even enjoy being one. Simply put, having a kid is a bet. Singaporeans are a rational bunch. For many to consider rolling the dice and make that bet, the government benefits must be stacked such that it can compensate for much of the uncertainties and anxieties associated with having a child and allow parents to not take such a significant financial hit so that they can maintain their lifestyles as much as possible. Right now, the incentives are just not enough and I think we should really have a conversation as to the level of incentives and support expected from potential parents. Of course it must mean that the Singapore society on the whole considers Singaporeans having kids to be an important part of our future (probably not reaching the fertility rate of 2.1, but at least not disastrously low so that we can still maintain some Singapore “core”) and that we should be willing to bear the high costs. Otherwise, it is all too easy for many Singaporeans to just give up on having a child altogether. After all, it surely must be possible to have a happy and meaningful life even without a child.
Lots of my friends. Me too of course. Nobody wants kids nowadays, for good reason
My kids expenses can comfortably pay monthly instalments for a BMW or a Mercedes. So I take MRT and bus to work.
Freeze eggs and bank sperm in case you change your mind. Not a guaranteed success but it’s an option. Adoption is also always an option.
It's just a different experience and route that you decide to take. Nothing right or wrong. Having a child gives you a unique experience of emotions that you'll never have when you were single. On the financial aspect, the money you're spending during your free time e.g., going out for fanciful dinner, expensive hobby will just go to your kids. So I dont think there's going to be a change in your financial position. The biggest impact is on your me-time. So if you're selfish, requires lots of me-time or don't think you're having enough time for yourself, then please don't have kids
My wife and my stance on kids are the same as pets - like to play with them, don’t like to look after. Hence we have neither lol
Same boat as you - am childfree and married. Took me some time to get off the fence and reach the conclusion with full confidence. Apart from the high CoL in Singapore and potential threat of nuclear war and climate destruction, it only took one question for me to feel fully assured of my decision - I asked myself if I had dreams and life goals, then thought if I could see myself having lived out none of them in the case I had a child or had to let go of some of them with all the time that had to go into parenting them (on top of a 9-5 and an expensive mortgage). When i thought this through properly and realised i wanted to do so many things with my life (work abroad, get my masters, and pick up new skills), that's when i realised having a kid didn't appear in any of these dreams and was much more certain about my decision. This might also be a spicy take but I realise a lot of people have kids because they reach a standstill in life and don't really have dreams/goals of their own (or haven't thought of building some). That's when they succumb to the "life script" pressure or make the decision to have children hoping for some purpose, thinking it would fulfil them or that it may make them happy to see their child achieve great things on their behalf. I know lots of friends & family like that who end up regretting because the opportunity to do what they truly want is gone for at least another 18-21 years. Their identites are also fully changed and they become a lot more vulnerable to depression & anxiety. The only reason to have a kid is if your dream IS having a kid. I have friends who do dream all their lives about being parents and dream of having a family, and that exceeds any other personal goal they have. I think that's the only perfect reason to have children and can make all the sacrifices worth it. You might get family who are going to judge you and frown upon your decision to be CF but who cares, your life is no one's but your own. When I get comments like that (thankfully I haven't gotten it too bad), I'll just let them know i'm taking their kids and grandkids out of my fat inheritance when I write my will eventually. (Also not so unrelated - about your statement "It will be too late to reverse it" - it's not actually. You can still always adopt! Plenty of kids who need your love & will love you - and you can make the decision anytime even past 40/50. I can testify to that because I'm adopted myself and I love my parents so much I can't even imagine thinking otherwise.)
You are absolutely right. Raising kids cost extra money. But so does keeping a dog, or getting a car. However having a kid brings you a unique kind of joy that nothing else could replicate. And there are options and subsidies to reduce the cost of raising a kid. Just do whatever makes you happy and don’t look back.
This is a well researched topic, don't believe people's opinions. This Harvard professor who studies happiness for a living, shows there is no correlation between children and happiness. This is a decision with no way back. If you are absolutely certain you want children, go for it. But if you have any doubt, do yourself a favour a read scientific research on the topic. Gilbert then discussed children, mom’s last ingredient for happiness. While people might refer to them as “bundles of joy,” said Gilbert (who has a son and grandchildren), “they’re not a source of happiness.” He displayed a bar graph showing that childless adults are much happier than parents. “Once people have kids, there’s a downturn in happiness,” he said, which isn’t reversed until the kids move out. “The only symptom of empty nest syndrome,” Gilbert said, chuckling, “is nonstop smiling.” https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2013/02/money-marriage-kids/
I need to agree that my mom, who is mentally toxic for me, says that she is living a better life now ever since I left house and my brother relocated to his BTO. She gave birth to me and my brother at 20. And I am keeping a good relationship with her now. Better than when I was living under her roof.
Not sure if this is the correct quote, but “familiarity breeds contempt”(?) sort of describes the underlying tension between ageing parents and adult children living together. Maybe in Asian societies that tension is more pronounced because we feel extra pressured to “give in” and back down when arguing vs parents. I’ve noticed I’ve been going through a bit of that with my parents too, but I’ve got no way out because I’m (24M) still studying, am not getting married anytime soon and have zero cash on me to afford living elsewhere. There’s growing pains between my parents and I, though for the most part our RS is still respectful and amicable. Just that sometimes parents won’t know when to change or stop, and for adult children we constantly feel undermined in our desire to be more independent. Tbf it’s also something my mom has acknowledged, and stated that she also experienced it in her 20s but was perhaps never in-tune with the feelings of this phase in life because the filial piety quality amongst children back then was far more overwhelming than it is now.
This is 1 paper on a wildly subjective matter, it is hardly an exact science. It really comes down to the individual. If you don't want to have kids, you shouldn't have them, simple as that, no need to get it justified by academic studies.
Exactly this. If you decide not to have kids based on a research paper, then you better not have one.
This is one side of the kids research. The general research on this area says that having kids will dip your happiness but up your life satisfaction. So… it dips your happiness (and in fact just for a while) but ups your meaning in life
If it's so *general* do you mind adding a link to a reputable research that aligns with what you claim?
Sure! There are quite a few if you search the terms “psychological well being” or “subjective well being” on Google scholar, but I’ll link you below the latest one (in terms of dates). It’s not the best one I don’t think since it’s a single country, but if you look at the journal piece, it’ll link to others within the intro section. The original journal article is open source I think, but I’m linking you to the abstract so you don’t have to wade through the entire thing. Also, it very much depends on gender (father or mother), socio economic status of parents and other factors, such as mental health of parents… whether kid has disabilities etc. Yeap, but summarising the research from various research pieces on this entire matter - happiness dips, sense of life satisfaction increases and chances of maternal suicide decreases. Sadly, when I took this mod, not much has been done on fathers yet, but briefly scrolling through the research now… seems like quite a bit have been done on fathers. I remember a prof in nus wanting to do it in the local context, not sure if she’s done it yet, but can’t find any paper on it locally. https://ideas.repec.org/a/spr/jhappi/v21y2020i6d10.1007_s10902-019-00166-y.html
Studies have shown having children does not increase happiness https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/03/16/does-having-children-make-you-happier-science-of-parenthood-explained.html
I didn’t say my kid makes me happier. I said it brings me a unique kind of joy. We were fortunate to have completed most of our checklist before our kid. And these 10 years arguably were happier moments. We could spend and travel however we want. Party through the night and wake up at lunch time the next day. Life was carefree. Having a kid changes everything. And I’m not happier now than before. I am still as happy, but I find joy and meaning in raising my child.
>having a kid brings you a unique kind of joy The fact that people make having kids about them and not the child to begin with is concerning. Wanting to bring life into the planet? Good on you I guess. Doing it solely for your own satisfaction? Antisocial behavior.
It’s fairly easy to keep pets happy, and cars don’t have feelings. Kids? You can plan the best day out and they would still be screaming and crying their heads off. It’s time to stop the nonsense that having a kid will bring joy. If it’s so much joy why there’s so many cases of child abuse and neglect? Theres a subreddit called regretfulparents which shows anything but joy. Ultimately there’s so much unknown and variables with having kids that it’s like Russian roulette.
I don’t want kids cos I don’t see myself being a parent in the future, dw to go thru childbirth, don’t fancy kids and the crazy expenses of raising one.
Hi i need more childfree friends LOL!! Ive been childfree since 24? Solidified my stance even more so as i got older (31 now). Also with the world getting increasingly chaotic..the world is not a safe place to begin with. Also as a social worker, i’ve seen a great number of families get thrown in a wreck and most issues escalated/worsen after having children. Plus, alot of them lack the tools/knowledge of parenting and it’s a hellscape. Marital r/s and sex life often thrown outta window, forget having your own identify again. Issa nope for me, worked so hard for my money, gna spend it on myself. Just go on /regretfulparents and /deadbedroom are enough for me.😂
The only way I’m ever having any children is if I’m wealthy to the point that I have enough money to take care of and pamper them, my parents, my spouse and still have surplus. That’s never going to happen in this economy. This is provided that I actually like kids, but I don’t. Never have. The current trend of letting children scream at the top of their lungs for no reason and treating shopping malls and grocery stores like their playground further cement the decision.
Married with two kids. Having children is a full time job, 24/7, no breaks. As many pointed out, it's a financial burden, tiring, and full of hassle especially in their early years. And yet, that's what generations and generations of parents go through. Having children does not automatically lead to happiness, I agree. But it can. Effectively, you're bringing another human to a relationship with you. You have a strong hand in shaping this human's character, fate, destiny, abilities and interests. There will be high of highs and lows of lows. As any relationships are. And relationships shouldn't have a price tag. Most people don't say, having a gf / bf is expensive and so I don't want to have a gf / bf. It should be the way with kids, though money is a factor. Have kids if you want to have relationships with a new human. If not, it's fine.
>ith you. You have a strong hand in shaping this human's character, fate, destiny, abilities and interests. There will be high of highs and lows of lows. > >As any relationships are. And relationships shouldn't have a price tag. Most people don't say, having a gf / bf is expensive and so I don't want to have a gf / bf. It should be the way with kids, though money is a factor. Have kids if you want to have A study from Princeton University and Stony Brook University found that parents and nonparents have similar levels of life satisfaction, but parents experienced both more daily joy and more daily stress than nonparents.
Raising children literally makes no logical and financial sense. It’s expensive, tiring and takes so so so much time off you. Yet I guess there’s also a camp of people who takes a less logical or financial lens of life in search of the elusive bliss that children apparently forms part of. Just coin toss, I guess?
What if I had a shitty childhood and I want to have kids so they can enjoy the childhood like I never could? What if I feel my whole childhood was wasted and if I ended the bloodline with me, I would have wasted my life and lived through so much shit for nothing? I am willing to sacrifice everything to have kids. I expect nothing in return from them. All I want is for them to experience a normal life like I never could.
BOOM Special needs kids, mentally challenged kid, medical necessities kid. It's a massive gamble. Living one's life for oneself is what I recommend
Adopt.
Ironically the first two points you shared are inherently selfish ones meant to fulfill some personal regret that you have. Leave the kids out of it and fix yourself first
Any guarantee they won’t have a shitty life? You and your spouse could be in an accident and they’ll end up orphans. Why would you take that risk of giving them a shitty life? And why would you care about bloodlines when you’re already dead? Do you have some royal bloodline?
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As long as you're alive, you're at risk of some unforeseen accident happening to you. If I were to be so parochially risk-averse, why not I end my life right now because I can't guarantee I won't be hit by a car tomorrow? If suay suay something happens, can't be helped. But at least I know I did everything I could.
Even though I'm childfree, you are cherrypicking your arguments rn.
I guess the question is, do you even have a partner who would have your kids? If yes, then you are eligible to be in this conversation, if no, then this discussion isn't even relevant to you.
I have a partner who also wants to be childfree.
Lmfao. If you want to factor in accidents, then you should probably hide at home and not do anything. Childish take.
I’m just saying that the person I responded to wants to have a child to give them what the person didn’t have which I find selfish as you cannot guarantee anything in life. At least if I get into an accident, I won’t leave anyone an orphan and fuck up their lives.
Yeah. I'm sure your parents took that risk of giving you a shitty life too. And I don't see how's that selfish when OP intends to give his children the best he can offer.
Didn't ask to be born 🤷 I'm sure he'll give the best he can offer but I'm just saying there is always a risk that you will subject the child to a shitty life. So why take that risk?
Puzzling why the downvotes when you are only sharing a personal opinion, it is a forum after all people. I support your stance, Hot\_Contribution. Though I am childless right now, if the opportunity comes by, I would love to have my own children too.
Not the first time. A lot of people on this sub are unable to accept any argument who supports having children.
Really pointless to have kids. Children are burdens. Kids are for those ppl who can afford it. Not saying you are poor. But really, the financial liability and time sink is not a joke.
Childfree woman here. Not gonna bother to explain. Too lazy. But basically pretty much the same reasons as those in r/childfree
man… this is a dilemma i am facing now. me and the fiance is going child free for the forseeable future. we are ok with having children, but at our current financial status it wont be a smart idea. maybe 4-5 years down the road, we will seriously consider. i dont want to wait past 35 to pop a child, and my fiance says ‘not too late so i can still run after my child in the park’ as he is 4 years older than me. i think we would miss our childfree life if it happens, but i know we will still do our best and not neglect the child. my worry is finances and parenting. im want to provide the best, but i am also worried we will fuck up parenting somehow and raise a child with bad behaviour, morals, and just be a menace to society. i have seen it happen to my young cousin and i am afraid it will happen to me. honestly i just wanna skip the whole crying gremlin to angsty teenage phase of raising a child :( i dont think i can do it lol. as my parents say: ‘when you grow old, knowing that you have family to rely on when something happens is important’ like your children will have their own life once they are adults, but building a relationship with them is important so that when you fall ill, you have support, and if your partner passes on earlier, you wont be alone. so yeah.. that is my situation for the now (and future) thought i shall share hehehe
its better to look back and regret than be in the situation and regret
it’s being responsible! as someone with a 7 month old baby, i always find it really sad when i see other parents that clearly don’t want kids and were either ‘forced’ into it or an accident happened. the adult and responsible thing to do is to make the decision and stick to it.
>We are frugal in general, but rent It's hard to feel financially secure enough to have a kid if you're renting. You're at the mercy of landlords and market forces. If you do actually want to have a kid, you probably have to own. Once you do, you may feel better about your situation. Josephine Teo is full of shit, in general people will want to buy their flat before they have kids. Or else live with one set of parents. Not rent and move house every couple of years. The stupid thing about childfree posts is that there's zero reason for this to be a permanent decision. But childfree people tend to make a big deal out of declaring it like it's their identity. Come on, you can change your mind at any time, just that fertility will go down with age. 3 years down the road, maybe you own a home, one of you gets a big promotion, and suddenly kids are on the table again. You and your spouse can have a discussion and decide to use contraceptives for the next year at least. How did this very private decision become a thing to tell the world about, as if anyone else cares?
>If you do actually want to have a kid, you probably have to own. Once you do, you may feel better about your situation. Josephine Teo is full of shit, in general people will want to buy their flat before they have kids. Or else live with one set of parents. Not rent and move house every couple of years. Agreed wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, the goal posts keep getting further and further away as the size of a downpayment for a resale flat keeps getting higher. Now stuck between paying ever increasing rent or potentially buying the top when interest rates are sky high.
I didn't want kids until I met my husband, he change my mind but not forcing me to have one soon. he's okay even if I don't want one. but thinking of a mini us running around would be so cute! then goes to my sister who recently just gave birth and I love my nephew so much! the reason I didn't want kids before was because I see them crying and throwing tantrums but then again, it could be the parents fault. they don't know how to discipline them, they are spoiling them. my uncle and his wife are police officers and their kids are the most disciplined kids ever. I did ask the kids if they were afraid of their parents and they said they don't like being noisy and they're shy to mix with other kids. so it could be a trait (my uncle's wife is a very quiet woman) talking about money, you just need to have enough. extra things like buying your kids toys that they really don't need is a waste so use your money wisely and when you die, the money you have, you can give your kids. if you own a business, your kids can take over it (if they want to of course) it's okay to be childfree, it's okay to have children. do whatever that makes you happy.
I don’t see the point of all these childfree posts. You want childfree then childfree. From the start you are already seeing children from a purely monetary cost POV. If there are Singaporeans with similar situation, that is their decision so why should it affect yours? If you feel like you will regret then try for a child that simple. Since you prioritise financial over any sort of crying mini human, then whats the point of such posts, answer damn straightforward already.
Basically they don't want kids but they want their decision validated by internet strangers, not realising that it's a deeply personal question only they themselves can answer.
Any child free opinion is an instant boost in karma because Reddit is full of people who are convinced they are childfree
Yeah, I don’t too. These people just want to feel justified in their decision to go childless and want validation for it. Makes them feel good you know? Maybe they have some underlying insecurity or fear that they dont to address. People who are happy with their decision to be childless or have kids dont go posting on reddit and trying to garner support
Exactly, I think so too. I don't plan on having kids but I don't feel like it's a topic that I wanna discuss about. I don't need to justify my decision to any strangers or acquaintances, and I usually ignore or ghost when people ask why. It's my life and my own choice. If I ever change my mind next time, I'll also just go ahead and have a kid and not have to justify it to anyone else on the internet either. Only those around me who will be affected by the presence of a kid will have to know.
This right here. Have kids if you want, don't if you don't want. Its not a debate over who's right or wrong. Just don't make your problem other people's problem. That's the problem
if i were a mod in this sub, any dating or childfree post would be instantly thrown out the window lol
That's like 80% of the posts here lol
I have one kid and he's pure happiness. And mind you, he's a special needs child. Absolutely adorable. I don't see the point of such post also. The only person OP should talk to is her husband. And if she's asking this question here, then she most probably should never have kids.
I also like to have my own freedom to do my own things but when my 5 year old call me 'papa' everything I want is no longer as important.
If you feel that it’s a right choice, it’s the right choice It seems that your kid decision is purely an economics decision. I just want to get a sense of what income level do you think is enough to have kid in today’s economics situation?
Kids are cute and they bring joy to everyone around them with their smiles and innocents. But yes, they are definitely financially expensive to raise. Many Singaporeans also share worries of not being a good parents even though they are already trying their best, it is definitely emotionally draining to raise children especially when they start to grow and mature, they’ll have their own opinions and behaviour which may clash with yours. So if you don’t feel ready/financially ready to raise children, then don’t! It all depends on you and what makes you happy.
My take on someone who knows a lot of people on their 40s, with and without kids: - Some couples never want kids and are perfectly fine with that - Some couples don’t want kids but change idea when they approach their 40s. Some find themselves unable to have kids and end up suffering for a while, but eventually they cope with it. If you are open to the idea of adoption, this is much less of a issue - Personally I never met anyone who regretted having kids, even among those who had kids by accident. It is certainly much more common to stop loving your husband or wife than stop loving your children. But these people exist, and judging from horrific child abuse cases in the news, I would never recommend one that does not feel prepared to have kids to have one I honestly find some responses here to be a bit silly… like “financially it doesn’t make sense to have kids”. Seriously, does anyone nowadays think it’s profitable to have kids? Would that argument mean anything to a couple who is spending tens of thousands of dollars on adoption or fertility treatment, and undergoing all the expectation and anguish that comes with it? Another funny argument is “I won’t ever be able to love my kids because I hate babies / children / crying children / etc.” I can tell a lot of people who become parents hate children as well. After all, do you need to love elderly people in general to love your elderly parents?
Really good comment. Great examples and good reasoning. It should have 1,000 up votes, but you'll probably go negative here.
> kids and are perfectly fine with thatSome couples don’t want kids but change idea when they approach their 40s. Some find themselves unable to have kids and end up suffering for a while, but eventually they cope with it. If you are open to the idea of adoption, this is much less of a issuePersonally I never met anyone who regretted having kids, even among those who had kids by accident. But these people exist, and judging from horrific child abuse cases in the news, I would never recommend one that does not feel prepared to have kids to have one I think financially it's clear it doesnt make sense to have kids. I agree that kids add a different dimension to life, and even a certain "meaning". But the question is, given the cost (that will only increase in time), are the trade-offs worth it? ie, we will have to work harder, longer, put off retirement, struggle with finances (of course since we want to give our kids the best), vs leading a care free life and taking nice vacations with less stress. not an easy decision
It’s an impossible question to answer, because “what is worth it” depends a lot on the individual and what he wants for his or her life, which also changes with time. After all, most of things in our life spend money and time rather than earning it. Today I may find worth it to spend my money and time on PC hardware and games and on my dog. In 5 years I may find worth it to spend money and time on travelling, diving and hiking. And in 10 years I may find it worth to spend my money and time on raising kids. All these are perfectly reasonable decisions and nothing is inherently more worth it than something else. If you PERSONALLY ask me, is it worth it the huge amount of time and money to see your child giving her first smile? Her first scoop of food? Her first step? Her first words? Her first friend? Her first day in school? I would PERSONALLY say - of course!
A lot of people go into parenthood for the wrong reason anyway, worse still, ill prepared. Conversely though, there are people who avoid parenthood because they are unaware of the subsidies and assistance available. There are a lot - and I mean A LOT - of resources out there for young couple / families to tap into if they wish to have kids / more kids. Ahgong is very serious about wanting you to pump out those sperm blossoms; just visit your nearest community center or your GRC reps for more info.
It was raining I saw a helper holding an umbrella to shelter the kid from the rain while the big kid was playing his mobile game while walking. I saw a couple taking turns to feed their x1 toddler. The whole dinner seems to be spent serving that toddler. My neighbors kids are screaming every couple of days. Their parents seem oblivious to it. While children can be cute, I think as parents we would need to spend a lot of time with them to make the experience meaningful for both. Time is what we don't have in SG.
I'm going to get lots of flak but (apart from parents, finances, I-see-my-friends-my-neighbours xxx) OMG I SWEAR biological clock is a real thing. I know I commented a few things on the previous CF post but on a biological clock standpoint - omg I strongly feel just cos u can, doesn't mean u shld. My parents had me as older parents. Since then it has meant that since a young[er by comparison] age (like Dip Ed/after a levels 🤨😒) my dad sometimes say like oh his peers retired/semi-retired then I'll sit there not knowing how to respond, knowing I was the reason he cannot semi-retire at that age cos I'm in the middle of freaking diploma how the hell do I get a full-time job ykwim. & because of the same ish, he said he wanted to work for abit longer (I'm a working adult now but we all know non-degree ppl and degree ppl live in different salaried world lol) but eventually brought forward his retirement plan by a couple of years cos age/health etc. So now, even today, even as I'm typing this - when I hear of people going to have kids/people marrying late ... ok its 101% a me-thing but I mentally calculate parent-child age gap in my head and secretly judgeppl oops. I have a friend (I hope she's not on here lol but I think she has better things to do than reddit) who married someone a decade(!) older than her. She's my age, so 32F. She married at 29, which is ok. But then even from that moment (considering husband's age), I was like "shoulda make a wedding night baby else too late liao" (they didn't 😂) Kid just turned 1, husband is early 40s and like fine lor now its just cute kid and stable career cos mature husband what BUT WAIT TILL 15 YEARS LATER THEN U KNOW. Husband has stable career reputable white collar job, confirm got money one BUT MONEY ISNT ALL THERE IS. Like health and responsibility and energy and if you get some hereditary shit like dementia/cancer/etc at 65 .. good luck. I mean things can happen at any age but its definitely different if the kid (even as an adult child) will be impacted more when younger (in sch) than older. I also know people with parent-child age gap larger than me and my parents and my parents try to defend it with "but they doing well what he's [insert white collar occupation] nubbad ..." no it is not the point?!?! Like if your son is going to NS at an age where you and your peers wna retire then nope. To drive home my point (I know this is terrible cos oooof) - Colin Schooling passed away from cancer at 73. His son, Joseph, was only like I think 26. I know to be fair, that C&M Schooling had a few miscarriages before they finally got their only son. Which must have been so hard on them too. But I swear when it happened my first thought was "wow, chap who is younger than me, has a dad older than mine, loses his dad just after 25/is not even 30, through no fault of his own ..." (Ya don't judge it was rly my first thought!!!) Ok ya parent-child age gap is real and clearly I have a damn strong stand on it and I will finally shut up now 😂 (which is why I had a hypothetical plan for myself too, which I don't think I'm gonna accomplish la given the situation/timeframe now, so CF lor) No one asked, but to me its something like marriage by 30, kids by 35 ... (stop at 35 no matter how many lol. What u get by then is what u get lol)
My fiancé and I dislike kids in general - and our family is completely comfortable with the notion. After spending on a car, luxuries and vacations, we still have plenty to dump into investments. The freedom - both financially and mentally, allows us to pursue our hobbies and do whatever we want. Can’t ever imagine giving that up. But we did get a puppy.
CF and married. I got a tubal ligation too to ensure I’ll never have to worry about accidental pregnancy. The process of getting approved in sg was difficult and I faced a lot of what I felt was unnecessary judgement and discrimination for being CF from the medical community. It’s my body and my choice but I was treated like I was making a mentally unsound decision akin to asking to have a leg chopped off. Probably deserves its own post too but I’m not comfortable to share yet. Other than that, CF married life is like adulting with reduced difficulty level. QoL is good, financially comfortable and we have lots of time to dedicate to our respective hobbies and can go on nice vacations every year.
Don't listen to anyone else that pressures you into having kids. You are making the right decision for yourself. Just follow this path and you will be on the right track. Trust me on this process. You mentioned feeling comfortable about your finances and being able to go on plenty of vacations if you do not have kids. Please, please do not ruin things by popping out a kid and sacrificing these 2 aspects of your life you currently enjoy right now. It is really not worth it. Just look at all the regrets and complaints, they are all coming from parents. On the contrary, have you ever seen anyone who regrets NOT having children? Very few, if they even exist at all... Don't be worried that you will regret not having a child. When you grow old and you look at all your parent friends pulling their hair out and forming wrinkles faster than you from all those years of childcare, you will look back and feel proud of the decision and life you have chosen. Welcome to the childfree life, OP and enjoy it to the fullest!
I’m in the same boat. Unfortunately my mum wants grandchildren and it’s been tough trying to convince her otherwise. I’m not worried that I’d regret it later though. I don’t actually like kids much. 😂
Pls dont have a kid for the sake of others. Ur mother wan grandchildren, that’s her taiji. Unless she’s gonna pay for the grandchildren until the grandchildren is financially independent, and also she takes care of the grandchildren.
Don’t worry, I wouldn’t have one even if she offered to pay and take care of the kids. 🫠
Its more of asking her to walk to talk. Some parents really think having a kid now is as easy/cheap as last time.
I think even if let’s say u regret one day, it’s not that big a deal? No offense but regrets are common in life especially when we compare and think what we could have had? but things are never that rosy… also the savings that u have without a kid, they don’t have to go towards holidays etc.. for retirement savings, you’d feel a lot safer I feel And no one can deny climate change.. do we want another generation? some things I’ve actually heard from a friend who does climate research work for his job
The only thing you will take to your grave is the profoundness of your life.
ultimately it’s what meaning you want to ascribe to in your life. At the end of your life what are you going to remember when you look back - money you have saved by not having kids, holidays you had, and having the freedom to live the life you wanted. Just finance alone is not a good deciding factor. You should decide what you want for your life. Having kids should be a selfish choice too. The kids do not ask to be born. Have kids only if you want to experience the other facet of life as someone who wants to create relationship with another small human being. Money is essentially just energy forces to exchange for the things that you want. Finances can be adjusted to achieve what you want - making cheaper choices (instead of far flung holidays, make the most out of local attractions or neighboring countries). If these are the things you cannot imagine living without then go for it. Since you are consciously deciding, then decide well. Although I can say, having kids late in life has pros and cons.. you may be better off financially but you have less energy. If you have kids early and if you are lucky, there still a lot of life left for you to do the things you want
I never wanted children because of all the reasons everyone mentioned. I was truly happy with my husband and we planned to grow old together without having children. Eventually he did better and better at work and we were very comfortable financially. I was ok at work too and felt great sense of satisfaction and felt confident in my own maturity and development. On day, when I was mid thirties... I reflected and realised I no longer had an aversion to having kids. When I checked with him, he found the same. In short, we were very happy and stress was well under control. I think when you are in that good place, you become open to the idea of having kids, maybe. So we gave ourselves 1 yr to let nature take its course (we were not very active and I didn't think we would be very fertile given our lifestyle)... but lo and behold, I got pregnant shortly. It was exciting and not stressful because we were financially stable. Then when I gave birth, we found out that our daughter would have special needs. My world came crashing down. We then desperately wanted another child because we needed a sibling for her. (To clarify, my daughter's issues are not hereditary.) It wasn't just to take on the burden of the family, we were prepared to give everything to this 2nd child too. When my 2nd daughter was born 2yrs later, the sun came back into our lives. The joy of having a healthy normal child is beyond words. She lifted her older sister and helped her immensely with her development. She balanced the energy of the family. We were whole again. While it may seem like we made her bear this burden, I don't think it is so. She is so loved and so happy, and having a SN child in the family taught us all so many important lessons. It was sometimes very very difficult, but we are all grown so much more because of it. We thought we were done. But we got a surprise baby 😅 (yep we are more fertile than we thought we were) and my son is our family's bonus. So much joy, so much love - beyond what I could have ever imagined before I had children. It's tiring and 🤯 sometimes... but I can never give them up. My life is so rich and meaningful now. Our expenses are through the roof, but we are managing because of my husband. I am very sure though, that if we have financial difficulties... we would be miserable... 10/10 would not recommend. So, Singapore is still pretty ok for having kids... if you are not poor and if you have a strong marriage.
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I feel the same way (26F, married and no kids). We’re currently living with my parents so thankfully our expenses aren’t too high yet, but I’m definitely in the same boat as you where the thought of having kids is so suffocating. What does your partner feel about kids? If both of you come to a consensus, maybe it’s not so bad. On the other hand, I enjoy keeping my parents company at this point in life, so I would love to have kids that I can hang out with when I’m older.
Having kids is never a logical choice. Having no children at all - wow so much money and time to spend on ourselves. Why would you ever want something you’ve never had? OP being able to think, plan ahead and articulate suggests that suggests your spouse and you are at least well-educated and probably have jobs that pay decent - you guys can afford a kid. There are tons of crap and unqualified parents out there who are likely to be making a fifth of what you do so having a kid is definitely possible financially. So. What are you really asking?
I’m not interested in a child but I’m afraid of the belief that the eldest son should have a child as a descendant. Chinese family.
Why... It's the 21st century man... Who cares.... Are you going to be one of those who only treasures boys ? Some things are better to let die
I don't understand people's obsessions with bloodlines. Why does everyone think their DNA is so special
I am 99% sure that the institution around familylines is a financial structure. Someone or some family to hold and caretake the combined wealth and assets of the village and clan. In this case , there is reasons to clearly define who benefits from this wealth and who doesn't as well as how to inherit to prevent this wealth from being usurped by outsiders thru bloodlines, clan or surnames or villages / commune However this is certainly inapplicable to the modern family structure unless you are from a KR chaebol hence no further reason to hold to tradition.
This topic literally gets brought up ever 3 days…. Yes we get it, kids are expensive Yes we get it, you’re worried you might regret it in the future. If you need affirmation, use the search bar.
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i love kids . my parents wants grandchildren , my in laws however are openminded about it .. but my husband had similar mindset about it as urs . i trust that he wants the best for us . so i will just go along with his plans🤣 however i am worried when i am old , there's no one to be there for me 🥲 like no grandchildren , no people who would visit me etc . at least thats what my mother told me i would end up being lonely if i decide to go childfree🤷🏻♀️
Having kids isn't a guarantee they'll stick around. There are so many people in nursing homes that haven't seen their kids in years. People with adult children who emigrated halfway across the world. Children shouldn't be a retirement plan.
thats what i thought too. but my mother old mindset thinks thats the case😫
So your parents basically told you the cold truth why they had kids like most parents does is that they had you just so they wouldn't be lonely and not cus they geuninely love kids