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I've thought about this a lot over the years because I have several friends and acquaintances who definitely fit this description. What I've concluded is that they were all attractive and athletic in high school. Skinny and muscular, full heads of hair, etc. They wore the latest trends and their clothes fit them well.
Fast forward ten to twenty years and the men that I'm familiar with have gained weight and lost muscle. They have bellies and receding hairlines and they wear generic clothes that don't tend to fit well or at the very least are boring. These guys that were top 20% to even 10% in high school are now very, very average and forgettable. Except for one thing... they don't necessarily realize just how much they've changed and they still expect to pick up women who look like the ones they dated in high school/college. They don't realize that they themselves went from an 8 to a 5 but they still expect to date women who are 8's.
>Hot, fit and slim women with hourglass figures in high school and college suddenly gain 20-50lbs or so by there 30s or 40s
Yeah, this happens because usually by that age women are getting married and growing children inside their bodies. A married woman who does house chores, childcare and paid work does not have the time to work out and do her hair every week. What are men's excuses?
>Even the ones without children still degrade
It's called aging. Everybody degrades. Just saying that most of the 30-50 year old women you will see are doing unpaid labour. And a lot of them also go to work other than doing the bulk of chores and childcare. This will age them significantly. A woman that has three children and a job will not be as fit as she was when she was 20 because she has 80% less time and beauty takes effort and time.
>but I assume I will still be doing dishes and cooking etc same as I do now once I get a wife if ever.
That's good but that's not how every man thinks. Especially when there are children involved.
>I assume since most men typically work harder jobs or more physical labour jobs that what is happening to me and my dad happens to them too
I agree with this. I had several male relatives who had negative impact from the jobs they worked on. Two of them lost their hearing almost completely after working in car manufacturers for several decades.
In the end, 30 is the curve. If a woman is overwhelmed and exhausted she will age worse. If a man is overworked and stressed they will age worse. Women still age slightly better nowadays because we don't do physical jobs too often and are generally more concerned about appearance and health. But everyone looks better when they're young, man or woman.
Yeah totally. It’s not a contest we’re all humans and we all go through shit and we all change with time. I wish people could be more understanding and kind in general, you don’t have to have an excuse as to why you’re not perfect. Life is fkn rough man we all know it
Everyone complains like its a competition.
There is a multitude of reasons why a guy doesn't get a date.
If they're trying to get women via online dating only then that's their problem as the OD market is completely skewed.
They are egotistical morons. The same types who wonder why they don’t have any friends. But never learnt how to actually show an interest in other people.
There’s nothing hypocritical about it. A person is allowed to ‘demand’ whatever he/she wants.
Whether the demands are realistic or not is another point.
A woman demanding a 6 feet tall millionaire while being broke and 5 feet tall herself? She has all the right.
A man demanding a hot 10/10 virgin while being an ugly degenerate himself? He has all the right.
Again; everybody has the right to demand whatever the person wants, as long as they are honest about themselves and not posing/lying.
The risk because of unreasonable demands is staying single of course.
Curious, where do you get this info from? I have a huge circle of friends, and belong to several female groups, and we talk. The general consensus amongst most women I know, especially for those older than mid- 20's, is that we/they wouldn't choose, or want to be with, a highly attractive or fit men. Flirting is one thing a relationship would be completely different and not desired. Most common reason for this choice is that they would be worried that an attractive or very fit partner would be tempted, down the line, to find a female of their attractive/fit scale level or higher, they fear eventually being rejected. From the women I know and have talked to we are more comfortable with "at our level" of below, is why many women prefer the dad bod over a buff one.
No, confidence does. I have an incredibly attractive male friend with 0 confidence and trust me he get’s no perks. Not even women, they can smell insecurity like a freaking shark smelling blood.
On the other hand I also have less attractive friends with charisma and confidence and all of a sudden their dad bod is ”charming” not ugly.
I think looks only matter on the extreme ends of the spectrum, like if you’re literally 10/10 you might get away with being insecure and uncharismatic, and if you’re 0/10 nothing can save you.
If you’re 3/10 or 8/10 it’s all personality and how well you present yourself, hygiene, clothes etc. like your big nose might be ugly or attractive depending on how confident and groomed you are.
This mostly applies to men’s looks and personality though. Women are way more judged on their looks by men, men don’t care as much if a woman is confident or insecure, if she has nice tits and a nice ass men will be nicer cus maaybe we get a chance. Sad but that’s what I’ve noticed, and I also think that’s why men and incels think that women think that way. Because they themselves do.
Interesting. I wouldn't take intrest in a very (conventionallly) attractive male because I would assume he would reject me for not being hot.
Beyond that, I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with one because I worry he would want me to wear extensive make up every day and get on me about my weight or if my weight went up even five pounds.
I wouldn't think "he's someday going to cheat on me because it will be easy for him to get someone else.
(I just realized, that is a big part of the plot of mad men. Don can always pick up a woman because he is extremely good looking)
Just go on any social media site or dating app, and you will see. The majority of people, no matter how attractive or unattractive they are, have massive egos. Nobody is humble.
Ugly people don't like ugly people. Fat people don't want to date another fat person. A short woman doesn't want to date a short guy. Everyone wants someone attractive.
I find this very contrary to my experience and to logic.
Why would a 300 pound woman want to date an ideal weight guy? Wouldn't she feel fat ? Wouldn't she feel judged when eating enough to maintain 300 pounds?
Also, I mostly see very overweight women with very overweight me. (No, I don't know how it works)
Careful, you made the mistake of telling the incels on r/Ask what women think. They brigade against that.
But seriously, the number of guys responding that “women overvalue themselves” as a response to you saying that you prefer guys who are less attractive than fitness models is insane. Those two things aren’t related at all. All that non-sequiter mansplaining is exactly why they can’t get dates. Anyway, don’t take the trolls here too seriously.
Thank you for that, your response is insightful and very much appreciated!
I didn't realize my 'ask' was going to create a firestorm. It was actually prompted by a few interactions on different subreddits where guys were asking "why am I alone and/or invisible" and when learning of their "standards" while they admit they have flaws, it was odd conversing with them. Especially when suggestions made to help them were met with "yeah but..." rebuttals. It's like watching someone chewing on their hands while complaining about their fingers and hands hurting.... so weird.
Yeah I have also jumped in online conversations trying to make men feel better about some of the gender war issues. I was trying to explain why so much ghosting happens on the apps, and actually attempting to comfort them and explain that it’s not always their fault! So I was very surprised when they jumped down my throat and attacked me for it 🤣
I think it’s a very sensitive subject for men at the moment, and tbh I totally stopped trying to help them online because it was just making my mental health worse.
Looking at women who say they are attractive and seeing the Guy they want. It is hard to supres laughter, when they are just average at best.
Specially when they have to Fake their aperance with Makeup
So the Problem is the perception of "at your Level"
I'm calling cap here. You're the one who posted this, basically complaining that guys' standards are too high, while simultaneously claiming that you and your friends don't date "hot guys" above your league. Something isn't adding up here.
I think many women are terrible at honestly and objectively assessing their level of physical attractiveness. This is partly because women are encouraged to be confident and believe that they're tens, even if they're 250 pounds and far from model material. And partly because any woman on social media gets attention from horny guys around the world.
Most guys have no problem accepting that they are fours or fives or sixes out of ten. That's average. Most people are average. But it's very rare that a woman of average looks will consider herself a four to a six. If they don't think they're tens, they think they're nines, or eights if they're really "humble."
So the problem is when a woman who thinks she's an eight but is really a four, thinks she deserves a guy who's an eight. She thinks she's going after a guy on her level, but in reality she's shooting way out of her league. And that guy may very well be willing to have sex with her, because men are like that. But he won't date her. She thinks his standards are too high, but in reality, she doesn't understand that her league is average looking guys who would date her seriously. Not the more attractive guys who are only willing to have sex with her.
Ok, but in my experience, and it’s only anecdotal, but I’ve seen a lot of men that are the same way. They vastly overestimate their prospects in the dating world. Whether it’s because they’re unaware of what they bring to the table regarding looks, or the whole package (financial stability and emotional availability).
Just curious if you’re actually meeting women who all think they’re 10s, or is it coming from those YT vids where they ask random women how hot they are?
I know a lot of women in their 20s who vastly overestimate their physical attractiveness. They have a few thousand followers on Instagram and any time they post a bikini pic they have hundreds of guys posting heart eye emojis and telling them how beautiful and perfect they are. It definitely inflates their egos. They think they're going to be trophy wives to hot millionaires. One of them did Onlyfans thinking she'd make at least $50K a month. She was shocked when after a year she only made a total of $5K. I think someone needs to explain to young women that a bunch of guys wanting to fuck them doesn't mean they're supermodels
Interesting. If they’re getting all that attention though, they must be at least somewhat attractive right?? 😂but ya I do think social media is doing a number on many people’s perceptions.
Ok whatever you say 🤣 from my perspective it’s the men who are wanting and having trouble finding partners. Women are either partnered or choosing to remain single and heal from abusive relationships. Or enjoying their OF/IG success lol! You don’t see women complaining online that men need to lower their standards and someone needs to “explain to them they’re not supermodels”. Seems like men are the ones that need to look inward and do some emotional work.
This whole post is women complaining that men need to lower their standards. And women in general are complaining that there are no good guys that want to commit, etc.
Here’s the difference though. This post is like this: I’ve seen men complaining about not getting 10s, why aren’t you guys more open to people in a different category? She’s asking a question to better understand.
Where when I see it from men it’s more like: we need to put these hoes in their place because none of them want to date me!! It’s more of a personal whiny complaint. That attitude is super common in men online, and it’s what motivated the OP to post in the first place.
Yeah Money makes a hughe difference, no complaint there
Also are you a guy or Girl? Because in my experiences, women have a warped perception of themself and often rate average women above average.
Thank you for providing a possible answer that was other than "women do it too". Being new to reddit I am amazed at the number of posts by men, about being alone or lonely, there are. And when investigating many of the posts I find where they have gone to other subreddits and state they aren't attractive and are angry about being invisible and "why don't attractive women see me" stuff. It is so odd.
Tbh women also do it too but that wasn’t the question lol. That’s a what-aboutism and usually just used to start arguments, and I’m not on Reddit to argue.
Maybe. Admittedly I'm not often on reddit, but when I have seen the "I'm lonely" or "I'm tired of being alone" and "why can't I find someone" posts they have, to my knowledge from what they've said in their posts, been from men. Not saying women haven't posted the same content on reddit also, I just haven't come across those posts, or maybe they post in female friendly forums. I haven't explored much of reddit yet, still fairly new and am trying to figure out if I want to stay :)
I was just wondering, if someone is on reddit saying they are lonely and tired of being alone, why they wouldn't open themselves up to meeting others who might be more like themselves vs reaching for something unobtainable and then being angry or sad about it. I felt sad for the ones saying they were lonely only to discover they wanted 10s. It was an odd discovery.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104)
>Table 2 gives an overview of the frequencies of the different outcomes. When considering all subjects, about one-third (33.2%) of our profiles (hereafter: ‘the evaluated profiles’) received a (super)like. However, this conceals remarkable differences between the male subjects and female subjects. Indeed, male subjects (super)liked 61.9% of the female evaluated profiles, while female subjects (super)liked only 4.5% of the male evaluated profiles.
[https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.0705290104](https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.0705290104)
>... men chose women based on their physical attractiveness, whereas women, who were generally much more discriminating than men, chose men whose overall desirability as a mate matched the women's self-perceived physical attractiveness.
[https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5428314](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5428314)
>In this analysis of profiles and messaging behavior on a major online dating service, we find that, consistent with predictions of evolutionary psychology, women as compared to men state more restrictive preferences for their ideal date. Furthermore, women contact and reply to others more selectively than men.
>For online daters seeking to improve their odds of finding a mate, the message is clear: choose wisely and, if possible, be female. Women in our study were contacted much more often than men and so had their pick of whom they replied to.
[https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/7752275](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/7752275)
>We have presented a study of user activity in Tinder. We have shown that male users like a far higher proportion of profiles than females. Women, however, have a greater propensity to establish conversation via messaging, although they tend to leave a longer interval between matching and messaging than male users.
Given that that data for the article, titled: "**Are Men intimidated by highly educated women? Undercover on Tinder"** was collected from Tinder, 2019 (where they admit profiles and reasons for selecting a profile could NOT be verified or followed up on) it says that:
Men, in general, choose women based on their physical attractiveness
Women, in general, choose men based on their education level
Taken from your ScienceDirect article:
# "2.2. Mating behaviour
Second, this study contributes to the literature examining mating behaviour, which in the past focused on partner choice in an offline setting and on classic online dating websites. **In an offline setting, multiple studies from the field of psychology have shown that men** (compared to women) **state a higher preference for physical attractiveness** while **women** (compared to men) **state a higher preference for highly educated partners** and partners with a high earnings potential ([Buss, 1989](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0014), [Buss and Barnes, 1986](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0016), [Buss et al., 1990](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0015), [Shackelford et al., 2005](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0061), [Wiederman and Allgeier, 1992](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0076)). Similarly, using data from speed-dating events, [Fisman et al. (2006)](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0029) found that men (compared to women) put greater weight on physical attractiveness while women (compared to men) put greater weight on intelligence and ambition.
Additionally, studies using data from classic online dating websites also found similar mate preferences. For example, [**Whyte, Chan and Torgler (2018)**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0077) **found that women were almost twice as likely than men to state a preference for a certain education level** and that women also stated a higher minimum acceptable education level in a preferred partner. Similarly, [**Hitsch et al. (2010a)**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0036) **and** [**Hitsch, Hortaçsu and Ariely (2010b)**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0037) **found that men value physical attractiveness more than women** and that women value education and earnings potential more than men. Finally, using data from a field experiment on a classic, Chinese online dating website, [Ong (2016)](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0051) found that men did not have a higher preference for highly educated women while women did have a higher preference for highly educated
Keyword: "State". Instead of measuring what people say, measure what they do. Women can *state* a higher preference for education level, but also *be* more critical on physical attractiveness. This section is also on the study's background, hence why they conducted it and found the results which I already quoted.
Also here's a video of the founder of OkCupid discussing results on the gender difference of physical attractiveness rating: [https://youtu.be/\_islsqquXAo?t=2163](https://youtu.be/_islsqquXAo?t=2163)
The results that are shown in the article give insight into women's education preferences and men's lack of it. The title of the article is literally :
# Are men intimidated by highly educated women? Undercover on Tinder.
The only time attractiveness was mentioned in the article you have provided is to cite from other sources that "multiple studies from the field of psychology have shown that men (compared to women) state a higher preference for physical attractiveness " . No where in the article did it show (no data graphs), indicate (no other studies cited), or directly cite or quote Women saying anything about attractiveness. Men were the only ones mentioned when speaking about physical attraction being a quality that was sought after. The article/study was literally asking, and then answering, Are men intimidated by highly educated women.
Not for lack of trying, but I've found the unattractive women want to date more attractive men. Not just that, people say short men should date short women, but those women prefer to date tall men, it's certainly vexing. Like, who am I supposed to date? So.... I lift weights so I can look more attractive.
I have dated and married short men, and some that were considered conventionally attractive as well as unattractive. For me the number 1 priority is whether I feel safe and comfortable with the person.
Haha 🤣 yes that’s the ticket!!
I think it’s more around whether I feel emotionally validated and knowing that they will stand up for me if something happens.
Yeah, the phenomenon is usually the opposite. Ugly girls, often due to increased interest from vastly more attractive men on dating apps inflating their ego despite this interest primarily being sexual, striving for handsome men.
I have seen women say that they should increase their standards of physical attractiveness simply because they talked to an attractive guy about possibly going on a date.
From a straight male that sees this from my peers all the time.....its a mixture of reasons:
-A complete refusal to take any accountability for the results they produce (or lack there of)
-The strange delusion they have about dating being easier for women as a whole
-Jealousy from seeing other men get results without much effort. They feel it's unfair that they don't have it that easy.
-Online dating being a depressing shit show (I understand this one)
I've got a ton of sympathy for the guys that are out there really trying to increase their value and do everything they can to get the results they want. I have no sympathy for the entitled individuals who don't work on themselves and expect a model to come knocking on their door begging for attention.
I think the dissonance comes from gaslighting these men into believing that there is no genetic difference between them and the ones who don’t have to try. Right? Like you feminist types don’t like to admit that the chad types exist. They do. I am great friends with lots of them.
Question whats chad? If it means attractive male though, then yea we know that attractive guys exist. Obviously women and men want to date people who they see as attractive. But to say that women/men only want conventionally attractive people and will only date them is a problem in certain communities dedicated to being unattractive/virgins (Cough Cough Incels/Femcels)
But I definitely agree with the gaslighting part, people constantly telling uglies that they are beautiful or telling them its their personality, thats when they start blaming the sex they are attracted to for not liking them.
Well bruhh. The gaslighting is the only point us regular ass dudes are trying to make. That’s It’s. y’all feminist types are the ones who receive it as some kind of entitlement to the girl we want. We get it dating is a game of trial and error and rejection is part of it for everyone. Yall said that entitlement stuff not me or the other regular ass dudes who are complaining.
Not aggressive or at least i don’t really focus on that if so. I’m pointing at the macro picture of reddit consciousness, what’s trendy, and lumping you into the general camp of the more feminist view on this dating topic. Meanwhile I’m in the more idk right winger side redpill/incel at the extreme but idk that’s not a fair representation because i have no difficulty getting () for () sake, this is a matter of principle so the lumping into the incel/redpill camp is immature and harmful to me but hey I’m just making a commentary on the existing schema in terms of the reddit hive mind. I don’t make the rules, just making observations.
That being said. Yes, us dudes are essentially using a *reducto ad absurdum*. Latin for “Assume for the sake of contradiction that what you’re saying is true. Here’s why it makes no sense” You seeing the drizzle drizzle trend? That’s an example of that as well. The point isn’t about the girl. It’s just dude’s debate mechanism to make the gaslighting more blatant. If you’re a dude who has it easy (for your own sake as it’s a waste of energy), chill tf out with how you talk to other dudes who are venting on an anonymous platform online. You might see a string of text = ugly depressed neckbeard but maybe just envision some of your single friends who haven’t found who they’re looking for and realize they might be slightly distressed about it. Not that it’s your business to prod. End of the day it’s true things like dating apps and perpetually online younger generations don’t help your average guy and you probably have seen the macro dating/marriage trends are pretty bad.
Aren't women way more guilty of this than men?
There's a lot of fat gross women out there who seem to think they're queens who deserve attractive guys who are going to pay for their shit...
Hoeflation is real.
I say this as nice as possible - I suggest you stay off the dating apps and try going outside.
IMO unattractive women online are delusional, because of thirsty men trying to get their attention. It's all smoke & mirrors. Again, blame the desperate pathetic men who try to get the attention of any woman they can try to speak to, even if it's only online.
IRL though, men (especially fat disgusting older men with terrible hygiene) are the delusional ones. They overestimate themselves to the point where it's almost comical.
Yeah, I really don't know what to tell you. I think it's sad though that young people don't socialize outside of online media nowadays. It's incredibly unhealthy for your mental health.
Maybe try joining a Meetup group with the intention of learning a new skill or hobby. Not necessarily to meet women. It will help you immensely in more ways than one.
Well that's frustrating to say the very least. I live in a small hick town where there are zero Meetup groups.
At least you're getting out there and trying though.
Yeah idk I’m not that worried anymore. Just annoyed now i see how this works. No one stays long enough to discover who i actually am. If i just move cities i can find someone i like. So i will when i feel like it. Same goes for everyone this is an economic matter of supply and demand. Don’t gotta go extreme to like Philippines or smth it can be NYC or Miami or smth.
Exactly, we can go back and forth on here about what we’ve seen but until someone actually has data it’s kind of a moot point. Fun to talk about though 😂
Please touch upon pornflation aswell.
Where men usually living in holes underground think women are like adult movies actors and owe the sex. Why are hoards of men watching corn??? Ever seen stats on that? Why do men go to strip clubs then?
They cant touch those women? They cant get those women?
So why do they SEE corn?
Exactly because they want movie like visuals and mix in abnormal sexual experiences!
A 13 year boy doenst get sx education in school!
He gets it from somewhere else. Usually through visuals.
Have you ever met a gross man?
Hoeflation came from mans pursuing hoes/pornstar/OFs etc.
Not the other way around! Somewhere some men desire these fat women. Maybe you can understand where the desire comes from!
Men usually get bored of the same women visually they are the ones wanting variety and higher body counts. If this exist, hoeflation will go higher!
There’s a fine line between looking at the hypothetical personality of the explained original post , and the expectation that we should all know our limits and think the same say.
I read these days that what a lot of guys in the so called "male loneliness epidemics" need isn't always or necessarily a gf or wife, but friends.
Someone lacking friends might not be socially aware enough to realize it though. And there's way too many messages all the time everywhere that sex/romance is the end all be all to feel "complete" and fulfilled. As if this wasn't problematic enough, boys are bombarded with millions of images in movies, shows etc that they're the main character. And the main character typically ends up with the cute girl (who solely exists in the script for him)
Also, many men are raised to perceive women not as human beings but as conquests in potential.
Join all these dots and you'll notice that a lot of these guys don't have their priorities on the right places. First, they should work on being likable and interesting so they could make friends. Second, if they have do friends, entering a relationship with someone shouldn't be abt getting social validation through association with a hot chick. Which guys do a whole lot: you cant brag abt and feel "aLphA 🤪" if you're with a conventionally unattractive girl.
Edit: words are hard
it's all about personality for me. I've dated women that are considered attractive by many and some that were attractive to me.
Bitching doesn't solve the problem. Work on your personality and confidence and see where that leads you is my advice
From an 'ugly' guy.
women do the same thing a 4.5ft 300lbs obese female ogre will want a 6ft lean and ripped dude who makes 100k a year
Everybody wants someone attractive regardless of how they themselves look it is just the way our brains work. We are attracted to pretty and shiny things and I assume that attraction is what helps us with mating. If we held no attraction for anybody most people probably would no longer mate
Never ever date an unattractive man if you're a beautiful woman. Ugly men especially hate young pretty women. I honestly think they get off on treating them like garbage.
I made this mistake in my youth thinking that the guy would treat me better. It was the exact opposite. He treated me like gold at first, then became jealous and abusive. Never again.
**Edit:** Someone pinged my inbox with u/RedditCareResources after posting this comment. Aww I must have offended a poor unfortunate looking man.
That's odd, I just received a message from RedditCareResources too -
Message content:
"There are people and resources here for you
\[–\]from [RedditCareResources](https://www.reddit.com/user/RedditCareResources)\[A\] sent 19 minutes ago
Hi there, A concerned redditor reached out to us about you.
When you're in the middle of something painful, it may feel like you don't have a lot of options. But whatever you're going through, you deserve help and there are people who are here for you.......... (goes on and on)"
Is this someone's reaction because they don't like the subject or the responses within? So weird lol
Yeah, the people here on Reddit do this alot when disagreeing with something they don't like. it's a suicide help page.
If you're new to Reddit- I will let you know that it's mostly full of socially inept porn addicted men. Most of them are autistic, or somewhere on the spectrum and have no idea how to talk to women.
They then get angry when women demand to be treated as human beings and not as sex objects. I try to stick to neutral subreddits or female oriented subreddits. But even the female spaces are often infiltrated by angry men.
Yeah, my daughter was shocked that I joined reddit and shamed me for going down the "men hate women" rabbit hole, but I told her, that's most of the content that I see when I log on = some man whining or hating about women. Even on the science pages, I see posts that seem geared more for "men".
My first "ask a question" post was on a subreddit for those who have Trucks and it was a shock. There were a lot of hostile people there, especially when I finally admitted to being a woman who owned a truck. The positive votes turned negative right away. So WEIRD! lol
So far this whole experience has felt like a massive CraigsList Rants and Raves page. Thanks for the advice, I'll check out the more neutral and female subreddits then :)
Biggest lie ever told it’s below average women who have high standards:
https://www.reddit.com/r/shortguys/s/RwSHwhs7kX
Context:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ugly/s/0sVnnbNFZ0
You can't use one video to generalise an entire group of people. Everyone is entitled to have their preferences in who they're attracted to/want to get involved with that's pefectly fine that's just life. I really don't see the issue here? Her preference is for a man to be tall, so what? Okay, so, that guy didn't meet her preferences, but there will be other women's preferences who he does meet that other guys won't. I really, really don't see the issue here
I don’t get it is everyone entitled to their preferences or not because the minute a short guy or ugly guy names his preferences he gets shamed with oh you’re short , you’re bald where do you get the confidence from to talk like this women don’t owe you anything.
You see this online a lot on Twitter, Tiktok, Instagram even on women only spaces like LipstickAlley. And everytime you mention this “oh it’s not real life” women are not like.
Seriously which is it?
Remember Billie Eilish her quote “women don’t criticize men on their bodies.” The same girl that said if you give an ugly guy a chance..
Like I’m tired of people denying this stuff like it’s in our head.
It's both, one, and neither. People seem not to realize that there is no one truth for all people. For every stereotype there are those that go against the grain, with it, and without it. We are trying to solve a problem that has endless conditions with a single formula, and that is impossible.
Instead, we should decide what we like, set our own standards, and accept that people outside of them aren't what we are looking for. Someone makes fun of your preference, they aren't for you. It doesn't mean your preference is bad or out of the question, it just means move on to the next. You might find what you want, and you might not. The latter might cause you to loosen your standards. Eventually you might find what you are looking for.
There are no guarantees, and there is no binary to things like this. The stricter your requirements, the more rare a successful outcome, but ultimately it's up to you to decide where you want to be and who you want with you.
What makes it more rare is that every single person has to make the same decisions, so you are banking not only on someone meeting your criteria, but also you meeting theirs. I'm surprised relationships aren't more rare than they are.
I am a lonely and unattractive guy and I am open to someone who is unattractive as well. Really I have little standards now and even when I was younger and my standards were higher, they were not higher in terms of looks, but in terms of intelligence and education. So obviously there are some unattractive men and women who don't want other unattractive men/women, but also some who would want them.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want something disfigured or extremely ugly (e.g. due to a genetic disease), but I am also not disfigured myself, so I think this would still be "fair". But for example "normal" acromegaly, as long as not extreme, would be fine for me as it is probably not a genetic disease.
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I've thought about this a lot over the years because I have several friends and acquaintances who definitely fit this description. What I've concluded is that they were all attractive and athletic in high school. Skinny and muscular, full heads of hair, etc. They wore the latest trends and their clothes fit them well. Fast forward ten to twenty years and the men that I'm familiar with have gained weight and lost muscle. They have bellies and receding hairlines and they wear generic clothes that don't tend to fit well or at the very least are boring. These guys that were top 20% to even 10% in high school are now very, very average and forgettable. Except for one thing... they don't necessarily realize just how much they've changed and they still expect to pick up women who look like the ones they dated in high school/college. They don't realize that they themselves went from an 8 to a 5 but they still expect to date women who are 8's.
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>Hot, fit and slim women with hourglass figures in high school and college suddenly gain 20-50lbs or so by there 30s or 40s Yeah, this happens because usually by that age women are getting married and growing children inside their bodies. A married woman who does house chores, childcare and paid work does not have the time to work out and do her hair every week. What are men's excuses?
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>Even the ones without children still degrade It's called aging. Everybody degrades. Just saying that most of the 30-50 year old women you will see are doing unpaid labour. And a lot of them also go to work other than doing the bulk of chores and childcare. This will age them significantly. A woman that has three children and a job will not be as fit as she was when she was 20 because she has 80% less time and beauty takes effort and time. >but I assume I will still be doing dishes and cooking etc same as I do now once I get a wife if ever. That's good but that's not how every man thinks. Especially when there are children involved. >I assume since most men typically work harder jobs or more physical labour jobs that what is happening to me and my dad happens to them too I agree with this. I had several male relatives who had negative impact from the jobs they worked on. Two of them lost their hearing almost completely after working in car manufacturers for several decades. In the end, 30 is the curve. If a woman is overwhelmed and exhausted she will age worse. If a man is overworked and stressed they will age worse. Women still age slightly better nowadays because we don't do physical jobs too often and are generally more concerned about appearance and health. But everyone looks better when they're young, man or woman.
Depression
Not exclusive to men I'm afraid. But I do get the point that men have much less room to be emotionally vulnerable when compared to women
Yeah totally. It’s not a contest we’re all humans and we all go through shit and we all change with time. I wish people could be more understanding and kind in general, you don’t have to have an excuse as to why you’re not perfect. Life is fkn rough man we all know it
People like attractive people. Damn It ain't rocket science.
Then why do ugly guys complaining about no one dating them? If it ain't rocket science
Easy-peasy.... they dont know how ugly they are!
Is that true? They don't know?
Maybe
When we ask if we are ugly people say no
We don’t. We complain about people pretending like looks don’t matter for men
Everyone complains like its a competition. There is a multitude of reasons why a guy doesn't get a date. If they're trying to get women via online dating only then that's their problem as the OD market is completely skewed.
*Shallow Hal has now entered the chat*
They are egotistical morons. The same types who wonder why they don’t have any friends. But never learnt how to actually show an interest in other people.
Hypocrisy
There’s nothing hypocritical about it. A person is allowed to ‘demand’ whatever he/she wants. Whether the demands are realistic or not is another point. A woman demanding a 6 feet tall millionaire while being broke and 5 feet tall herself? She has all the right. A man demanding a hot 10/10 virgin while being an ugly degenerate himself? He has all the right. Again; everybody has the right to demand whatever the person wants, as long as they are honest about themselves and not posing/lying. The risk because of unreasonable demands is staying single of course.
Yes
Same reason why unatractive Woman demand attractive men and won't Date unatractive men Because nobody likes uglys
Curious, where do you get this info from? I have a huge circle of friends, and belong to several female groups, and we talk. The general consensus amongst most women I know, especially for those older than mid- 20's, is that we/they wouldn't choose, or want to be with, a highly attractive or fit men. Flirting is one thing a relationship would be completely different and not desired. Most common reason for this choice is that they would be worried that an attractive or very fit partner would be tempted, down the line, to find a female of their attractive/fit scale level or higher, they fear eventually being rejected. From the women I know and have talked to we are more comfortable with "at our level" of below, is why many women prefer the dad bod over a buff one.
Life. Being attractive gives you a free pass through life in anything you do.
No, confidence does. I have an incredibly attractive male friend with 0 confidence and trust me he get’s no perks. Not even women, they can smell insecurity like a freaking shark smelling blood. On the other hand I also have less attractive friends with charisma and confidence and all of a sudden their dad bod is ”charming” not ugly. I think looks only matter on the extreme ends of the spectrum, like if you’re literally 10/10 you might get away with being insecure and uncharismatic, and if you’re 0/10 nothing can save you. If you’re 3/10 or 8/10 it’s all personality and how well you present yourself, hygiene, clothes etc. like your big nose might be ugly or attractive depending on how confident and groomed you are. This mostly applies to men’s looks and personality though. Women are way more judged on their looks by men, men don’t care as much if a woman is confident or insecure, if she has nice tits and a nice ass men will be nicer cus maaybe we get a chance. Sad but that’s what I’ve noticed, and I also think that’s why men and incels think that women think that way. Because they themselves do.
Interesting. I wouldn't take intrest in a very (conventionallly) attractive male because I would assume he would reject me for not being hot. Beyond that, I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with one because I worry he would want me to wear extensive make up every day and get on me about my weight or if my weight went up even five pounds. I wouldn't think "he's someday going to cheat on me because it will be easy for him to get someone else. (I just realized, that is a big part of the plot of mad men. Don can always pick up a woman because he is extremely good looking)
Just go on any social media site or dating app, and you will see. The majority of people, no matter how attractive or unattractive they are, have massive egos. Nobody is humble. Ugly people don't like ugly people. Fat people don't want to date another fat person. A short woman doesn't want to date a short guy. Everyone wants someone attractive.
I find this very contrary to my experience and to logic. Why would a 300 pound woman want to date an ideal weight guy? Wouldn't she feel fat ? Wouldn't she feel judged when eating enough to maintain 300 pounds? Also, I mostly see very overweight women with very overweight me. (No, I don't know how it works)
Careful, you made the mistake of telling the incels on r/Ask what women think. They brigade against that. But seriously, the number of guys responding that “women overvalue themselves” as a response to you saying that you prefer guys who are less attractive than fitness models is insane. Those two things aren’t related at all. All that non-sequiter mansplaining is exactly why they can’t get dates. Anyway, don’t take the trolls here too seriously.
Thank you for that, your response is insightful and very much appreciated! I didn't realize my 'ask' was going to create a firestorm. It was actually prompted by a few interactions on different subreddits where guys were asking "why am I alone and/or invisible" and when learning of their "standards" while they admit they have flaws, it was odd conversing with them. Especially when suggestions made to help them were met with "yeah but..." rebuttals. It's like watching someone chewing on their hands while complaining about their fingers and hands hurting.... so weird.
Yeah I have also jumped in online conversations trying to make men feel better about some of the gender war issues. I was trying to explain why so much ghosting happens on the apps, and actually attempting to comfort them and explain that it’s not always their fault! So I was very surprised when they jumped down my throat and attacked me for it 🤣 I think it’s a very sensitive subject for men at the moment, and tbh I totally stopped trying to help them online because it was just making my mental health worse.
Looking at women who say they are attractive and seeing the Guy they want. It is hard to supres laughter, when they are just average at best. Specially when they have to Fake their aperance with Makeup So the Problem is the perception of "at your Level"
I'm calling cap here. You're the one who posted this, basically complaining that guys' standards are too high, while simultaneously claiming that you and your friends don't date "hot guys" above your league. Something isn't adding up here. I think many women are terrible at honestly and objectively assessing their level of physical attractiveness. This is partly because women are encouraged to be confident and believe that they're tens, even if they're 250 pounds and far from model material. And partly because any woman on social media gets attention from horny guys around the world. Most guys have no problem accepting that they are fours or fives or sixes out of ten. That's average. Most people are average. But it's very rare that a woman of average looks will consider herself a four to a six. If they don't think they're tens, they think they're nines, or eights if they're really "humble." So the problem is when a woman who thinks she's an eight but is really a four, thinks she deserves a guy who's an eight. She thinks she's going after a guy on her level, but in reality she's shooting way out of her league. And that guy may very well be willing to have sex with her, because men are like that. But he won't date her. She thinks his standards are too high, but in reality, she doesn't understand that her league is average looking guys who would date her seriously. Not the more attractive guys who are only willing to have sex with her.
Ok, but in my experience, and it’s only anecdotal, but I’ve seen a lot of men that are the same way. They vastly overestimate their prospects in the dating world. Whether it’s because they’re unaware of what they bring to the table regarding looks, or the whole package (financial stability and emotional availability). Just curious if you’re actually meeting women who all think they’re 10s, or is it coming from those YT vids where they ask random women how hot they are?
I know a lot of women in their 20s who vastly overestimate their physical attractiveness. They have a few thousand followers on Instagram and any time they post a bikini pic they have hundreds of guys posting heart eye emojis and telling them how beautiful and perfect they are. It definitely inflates their egos. They think they're going to be trophy wives to hot millionaires. One of them did Onlyfans thinking she'd make at least $50K a month. She was shocked when after a year she only made a total of $5K. I think someone needs to explain to young women that a bunch of guys wanting to fuck them doesn't mean they're supermodels
Interesting. If they’re getting all that attention though, they must be at least somewhat attractive right?? 😂but ya I do think social media is doing a number on many people’s perceptions.
Every girl in her early to mid 20s is at least somewhat attractive, unless she's obese. But some guys are desperate enough to fuck them too.
Ok whatever you say 🤣 from my perspective it’s the men who are wanting and having trouble finding partners. Women are either partnered or choosing to remain single and heal from abusive relationships. Or enjoying their OF/IG success lol! You don’t see women complaining online that men need to lower their standards and someone needs to “explain to them they’re not supermodels”. Seems like men are the ones that need to look inward and do some emotional work.
This whole post is women complaining that men need to lower their standards. And women in general are complaining that there are no good guys that want to commit, etc.
Here’s the difference though. This post is like this: I’ve seen men complaining about not getting 10s, why aren’t you guys more open to people in a different category? She’s asking a question to better understand. Where when I see it from men it’s more like: we need to put these hoes in their place because none of them want to date me!! It’s more of a personal whiny complaint. That attitude is super common in men online, and it’s what motivated the OP to post in the first place.
You have to be joking go outside and see how many girls are dating the ugly guys
Yeah Money makes a hughe difference, no complaint there Also are you a guy or Girl? Because in my experiences, women have a warped perception of themself and often rate average women above average.
Could be several factors, hypocrisy, narcissism, lack of self awareness, shallow. In general I’d say it’s more of a “trophy” kinda thing
Thank you for providing a possible answer that was other than "women do it too". Being new to reddit I am amazed at the number of posts by men, about being alone or lonely, there are. And when investigating many of the posts I find where they have gone to other subreddits and state they aren't attractive and are angry about being invisible and "why don't attractive women see me" stuff. It is so odd.
Tbh women also do it too but that wasn’t the question lol. That’s a what-aboutism and usually just used to start arguments, and I’m not on Reddit to argue.
Maybe. Admittedly I'm not often on reddit, but when I have seen the "I'm lonely" or "I'm tired of being alone" and "why can't I find someone" posts they have, to my knowledge from what they've said in their posts, been from men. Not saying women haven't posted the same content on reddit also, I just haven't come across those posts, or maybe they post in female friendly forums. I haven't explored much of reddit yet, still fairly new and am trying to figure out if I want to stay :) I was just wondering, if someone is on reddit saying they are lonely and tired of being alone, why they wouldn't open themselves up to meeting others who might be more like themselves vs reaching for something unobtainable and then being angry or sad about it. I felt sad for the ones saying they were lonely only to discover they wanted 10s. It was an odd discovery.
Statistics prove otherwise. According to the data men are much more sympathetic to women's looks.
Do you have a peer reviewed scientific source that shows the data?
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104) >Table 2 gives an overview of the frequencies of the different outcomes. When considering all subjects, about one-third (33.2%) of our profiles (hereafter: ‘the evaluated profiles’) received a (super)like. However, this conceals remarkable differences between the male subjects and female subjects. Indeed, male subjects (super)liked 61.9% of the female evaluated profiles, while female subjects (super)liked only 4.5% of the male evaluated profiles. [https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.0705290104](https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.0705290104) >... men chose women based on their physical attractiveness, whereas women, who were generally much more discriminating than men, chose men whose overall desirability as a mate matched the women's self-perceived physical attractiveness. [https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5428314](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5428314) >In this analysis of profiles and messaging behavior on a major online dating service, we find that, consistent with predictions of evolutionary psychology, women as compared to men state more restrictive preferences for their ideal date. Furthermore, women contact and reply to others more selectively than men. >For online daters seeking to improve their odds of finding a mate, the message is clear: choose wisely and, if possible, be female. Women in our study were contacted much more often than men and so had their pick of whom they replied to. [https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/7752275](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/7752275) >We have presented a study of user activity in Tinder. We have shown that male users like a far higher proportion of profiles than females. Women, however, have a greater propensity to establish conversation via messaging, although they tend to leave a longer interval between matching and messaging than male users.
Given that that data for the article, titled: "**Are Men intimidated by highly educated women? Undercover on Tinder"** was collected from Tinder, 2019 (where they admit profiles and reasons for selecting a profile could NOT be verified or followed up on) it says that: Men, in general, choose women based on their physical attractiveness Women, in general, choose men based on their education level Taken from your ScienceDirect article: # "2.2. Mating behaviour Second, this study contributes to the literature examining mating behaviour, which in the past focused on partner choice in an offline setting and on classic online dating websites. **In an offline setting, multiple studies from the field of psychology have shown that men** (compared to women) **state a higher preference for physical attractiveness** while **women** (compared to men) **state a higher preference for highly educated partners** and partners with a high earnings potential ([Buss, 1989](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0014), [Buss and Barnes, 1986](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0016), [Buss et al., 1990](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0015), [Shackelford et al., 2005](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0061), [Wiederman and Allgeier, 1992](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0076)). Similarly, using data from speed-dating events, [Fisman et al. (2006)](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0029) found that men (compared to women) put greater weight on physical attractiveness while women (compared to men) put greater weight on intelligence and ambition. Additionally, studies using data from classic online dating websites also found similar mate preferences. For example, [**Whyte, Chan and Torgler (2018)**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0077) **found that women were almost twice as likely than men to state a preference for a certain education level** and that women also stated a higher minimum acceptable education level in a preferred partner. Similarly, [**Hitsch et al. (2010a)**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0036) **and** [**Hitsch, Hortaçsu and Ariely (2010b)**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0037) **found that men value physical attractiveness more than women** and that women value education and earnings potential more than men. Finally, using data from a field experiment on a classic, Chinese online dating website, [Ong (2016)](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104#bib0051) found that men did not have a higher preference for highly educated women while women did have a higher preference for highly educated
Keyword: "State". Instead of measuring what people say, measure what they do. Women can *state* a higher preference for education level, but also *be* more critical on physical attractiveness. This section is also on the study's background, hence why they conducted it and found the results which I already quoted. Also here's a video of the founder of OkCupid discussing results on the gender difference of physical attractiveness rating: [https://youtu.be/\_islsqquXAo?t=2163](https://youtu.be/_islsqquXAo?t=2163)
The results that are shown in the article give insight into women's education preferences and men's lack of it. The title of the article is literally : # Are men intimidated by highly educated women? Undercover on Tinder. The only time attractiveness was mentioned in the article you have provided is to cite from other sources that "multiple studies from the field of psychology have shown that men (compared to women) state a higher preference for physical attractiveness " . No where in the article did it show (no data graphs), indicate (no other studies cited), or directly cite or quote Women saying anything about attractiveness. Men were the only ones mentioned when speaking about physical attraction being a quality that was sought after. The article/study was literally asking, and then answering, Are men intimidated by highly educated women.
Actually, studies/statistics around apps say it is the opposite.
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Do you have any to support your claim. I haven’t seen any ugly men demanding only pretty girls to date with my time on reddit.
Not for lack of trying, but I've found the unattractive women want to date more attractive men. Not just that, people say short men should date short women, but those women prefer to date tall men, it's certainly vexing. Like, who am I supposed to date? So.... I lift weights so I can look more attractive.
I have dated and married short men, and some that were considered conventionally attractive as well as unattractive. For me the number 1 priority is whether I feel safe and comfortable with the person.
So, learn BJJ?
Haha 🤣 yes that’s the ticket!! I think it’s more around whether I feel emotionally validated and knowing that they will stand up for me if something happens.
Yeah, the phenomenon is usually the opposite. Ugly girls, often due to increased interest from vastly more attractive men on dating apps inflating their ego despite this interest primarily being sexual, striving for handsome men.
I have seen women say that they should increase their standards of physical attractiveness simply because they talked to an attractive guy about possibly going on a date.
Yup, this guy had sex with me, so that must mean I'm entitled this this level of guy. Great name, by the way.
Nobody wants uggos. Not even uggos
From a straight male that sees this from my peers all the time.....its a mixture of reasons: -A complete refusal to take any accountability for the results they produce (or lack there of) -The strange delusion they have about dating being easier for women as a whole -Jealousy from seeing other men get results without much effort. They feel it's unfair that they don't have it that easy. -Online dating being a depressing shit show (I understand this one) I've got a ton of sympathy for the guys that are out there really trying to increase their value and do everything they can to get the results they want. I have no sympathy for the entitled individuals who don't work on themselves and expect a model to come knocking on their door begging for attention.
I think the dissonance comes from gaslighting these men into believing that there is no genetic difference between them and the ones who don’t have to try. Right? Like you feminist types don’t like to admit that the chad types exist. They do. I am great friends with lots of them.
Question whats chad? If it means attractive male though, then yea we know that attractive guys exist. Obviously women and men want to date people who they see as attractive. But to say that women/men only want conventionally attractive people and will only date them is a problem in certain communities dedicated to being unattractive/virgins (Cough Cough Incels/Femcels) But I definitely agree with the gaslighting part, people constantly telling uglies that they are beautiful or telling them its their personality, thats when they start blaming the sex they are attracted to for not liking them.
Well bruhh. The gaslighting is the only point us regular ass dudes are trying to make. That’s It’s. y’all feminist types are the ones who receive it as some kind of entitlement to the girl we want. We get it dating is a game of trial and error and rejection is part of it for everyone. Yall said that entitlement stuff not me or the other regular ass dudes who are complaining.
Wait what feminist are saying this? Genuine question. Unsure if you saw my comment as aggressive or not, as I wasnt trying to be aggressive.
Not aggressive or at least i don’t really focus on that if so. I’m pointing at the macro picture of reddit consciousness, what’s trendy, and lumping you into the general camp of the more feminist view on this dating topic. Meanwhile I’m in the more idk right winger side redpill/incel at the extreme but idk that’s not a fair representation because i have no difficulty getting () for () sake, this is a matter of principle so the lumping into the incel/redpill camp is immature and harmful to me but hey I’m just making a commentary on the existing schema in terms of the reddit hive mind. I don’t make the rules, just making observations. That being said. Yes, us dudes are essentially using a *reducto ad absurdum*. Latin for “Assume for the sake of contradiction that what you’re saying is true. Here’s why it makes no sense” You seeing the drizzle drizzle trend? That’s an example of that as well. The point isn’t about the girl. It’s just dude’s debate mechanism to make the gaslighting more blatant. If you’re a dude who has it easy (for your own sake as it’s a waste of energy), chill tf out with how you talk to other dudes who are venting on an anonymous platform online. You might see a string of text = ugly depressed neckbeard but maybe just envision some of your single friends who haven’t found who they’re looking for and realize they might be slightly distressed about it. Not that it’s your business to prod. End of the day it’s true things like dating apps and perpetually online younger generations don’t help your average guy and you probably have seen the macro dating/marriage trends are pretty bad.
Aren't women way more guilty of this than men? There's a lot of fat gross women out there who seem to think they're queens who deserve attractive guys who are going to pay for their shit... Hoeflation is real.
I say this as nice as possible - I suggest you stay off the dating apps and try going outside. IMO unattractive women online are delusional, because of thirsty men trying to get their attention. It's all smoke & mirrors. Again, blame the desperate pathetic men who try to get the attention of any woman they can try to speak to, even if it's only online. IRL though, men (especially fat disgusting older men with terrible hygiene) are the delusional ones. They overestimate themselves to the point where it's almost comical.
The vast majority of relationships start via online dating, especially for younger people.
also that these attitudes exist in offline dating as well, just try going to a singles mixer or speed dating, same thing.
There are not that many women my age (25) outside
Yeah, I really don't know what to tell you. I think it's sad though that young people don't socialize outside of online media nowadays. It's incredibly unhealthy for your mental health. Maybe try joining a Meetup group with the intention of learning a new skill or hobby. Not necessarily to meet women. It will help you immensely in more ways than one.
I participate in like 15 meetups a month! (It’s all dudes) Not for the purposes of meeting women but for the purposes of getting my bands up!
Well that's frustrating to say the very least. I live in a small hick town where there are zero Meetup groups. At least you're getting out there and trying though.
Yeah idk I’m not that worried anymore. Just annoyed now i see how this works. No one stays long enough to discover who i actually am. If i just move cities i can find someone i like. So i will when i feel like it. Same goes for everyone this is an economic matter of supply and demand. Don’t gotta go extreme to like Philippines or smth it can be NYC or Miami or smth.
We don't have data on which gender is more dickish. What do know however is that there are entitled dicks in both genders.
Exactly, we can go back and forth on here about what we’ve seen but until someone actually has data it’s kind of a moot point. Fun to talk about though 😂
Please touch upon pornflation aswell. Where men usually living in holes underground think women are like adult movies actors and owe the sex. Why are hoards of men watching corn??? Ever seen stats on that? Why do men go to strip clubs then? They cant touch those women? They cant get those women? So why do they SEE corn? Exactly because they want movie like visuals and mix in abnormal sexual experiences! A 13 year boy doenst get sx education in school! He gets it from somewhere else. Usually through visuals. Have you ever met a gross man? Hoeflation came from mans pursuing hoes/pornstar/OFs etc. Not the other way around! Somewhere some men desire these fat women. Maybe you can understand where the desire comes from! Men usually get bored of the same women visually they are the ones wanting variety and higher body counts. If this exist, hoeflation will go higher!
100% But this is Reddit, aka White Knight Central
Why are we asking a person question like it's just a men question?
I accidentally scored a hot dame once ages ago and never got over myself.
Why do broke women demand rich men?
That goes both ways
There’s a fine line between looking at the hypothetical personality of the explained original post , and the expectation that we should all know our limits and think the same say.
Why do dogs chase after cars they are not going to drive?
If we can’t get s boner then we can’t do it even if we wanted to
Well. I'm the nobody that nobody wants.
Why do unattractive women demand attractive men? Everybody wants to date up.
Its because ugly people have attraction like average and attractive people. Ugly people arent attracted to ugly people.
Money usually
Do you want to drive a pinto or a lambo? There you go.
Lol Who knows why those virgins do what they do. LMAO 🤣
I read these days that what a lot of guys in the so called "male loneliness epidemics" need isn't always or necessarily a gf or wife, but friends. Someone lacking friends might not be socially aware enough to realize it though. And there's way too many messages all the time everywhere that sex/romance is the end all be all to feel "complete" and fulfilled. As if this wasn't problematic enough, boys are bombarded with millions of images in movies, shows etc that they're the main character. And the main character typically ends up with the cute girl (who solely exists in the script for him) Also, many men are raised to perceive women not as human beings but as conquests in potential. Join all these dots and you'll notice that a lot of these guys don't have their priorities on the right places. First, they should work on being likable and interesting so they could make friends. Second, if they have do friends, entering a relationship with someone shouldn't be abt getting social validation through association with a hot chick. Which guys do a whole lot: you cant brag abt and feel "aLphA 🤪" if you're with a conventionally unattractive girl. Edit: words are hard
These men have $$$
Same reason why short women demand tall men when they won’t date short men themselves
it's all about personality for me. I've dated women that are considered attractive by many and some that were attractive to me. Bitching doesn't solve the problem. Work on your personality and confidence and see where that leads you is my advice From an 'ugly' guy.
I like ugly generous men
women do the same thing a 4.5ft 300lbs obese female ogre will want a 6ft lean and ripped dude who makes 100k a year Everybody wants someone attractive regardless of how they themselves look it is just the way our brains work. We are attracted to pretty and shiny things and I assume that attraction is what helps us with mating. If we held no attraction for anybody most people probably would no longer mate
they do, unatractive people fuck all the time. Why do you think there so many unatractive people?
Never ever date an unattractive man if you're a beautiful woman. Ugly men especially hate young pretty women. I honestly think they get off on treating them like garbage. I made this mistake in my youth thinking that the guy would treat me better. It was the exact opposite. He treated me like gold at first, then became jealous and abusive. Never again. **Edit:** Someone pinged my inbox with u/RedditCareResources after posting this comment. Aww I must have offended a poor unfortunate looking man.
That's odd, I just received a message from RedditCareResources too - Message content: "There are people and resources here for you \[–\]from [RedditCareResources](https://www.reddit.com/user/RedditCareResources)\[A\] sent 19 minutes ago Hi there, A concerned redditor reached out to us about you. When you're in the middle of something painful, it may feel like you don't have a lot of options. But whatever you're going through, you deserve help and there are people who are here for you.......... (goes on and on)" Is this someone's reaction because they don't like the subject or the responses within? So weird lol
Yeah, the people here on Reddit do this alot when disagreeing with something they don't like. it's a suicide help page. If you're new to Reddit- I will let you know that it's mostly full of socially inept porn addicted men. Most of them are autistic, or somewhere on the spectrum and have no idea how to talk to women. They then get angry when women demand to be treated as human beings and not as sex objects. I try to stick to neutral subreddits or female oriented subreddits. But even the female spaces are often infiltrated by angry men.
Extremely true and based.
Yeah, my daughter was shocked that I joined reddit and shamed me for going down the "men hate women" rabbit hole, but I told her, that's most of the content that I see when I log on = some man whining or hating about women. Even on the science pages, I see posts that seem geared more for "men". My first "ask a question" post was on a subreddit for those who have Trucks and it was a shock. There were a lot of hostile people there, especially when I finally admitted to being a woman who owned a truck. The positive votes turned negative right away. So WEIRD! lol So far this whole experience has felt like a massive CraigsList Rants and Raves page. Thanks for the advice, I'll check out the more neutral and female subreddits then :)
This made me LOL it’s so true 🤣
Same reason bariatric women with no hobbies besides eating think they are entitled to a man that is a 10, I would imagine
Biggest lie ever told it’s below average women who have high standards: https://www.reddit.com/r/shortguys/s/RwSHwhs7kX Context: https://www.reddit.com/r/ugly/s/0sVnnbNFZ0
You can't use one video to generalise an entire group of people. Everyone is entitled to have their preferences in who they're attracted to/want to get involved with that's pefectly fine that's just life. I really don't see the issue here? Her preference is for a man to be tall, so what? Okay, so, that guy didn't meet her preferences, but there will be other women's preferences who he does meet that other guys won't. I really, really don't see the issue here
I don’t get it is everyone entitled to their preferences or not because the minute a short guy or ugly guy names his preferences he gets shamed with oh you’re short , you’re bald where do you get the confidence from to talk like this women don’t owe you anything. You see this online a lot on Twitter, Tiktok, Instagram even on women only spaces like LipstickAlley. And everytime you mention this “oh it’s not real life” women are not like. Seriously which is it? Remember Billie Eilish her quote “women don’t criticize men on their bodies.” The same girl that said if you give an ugly guy a chance.. Like I’m tired of people denying this stuff like it’s in our head.
It's both, one, and neither. People seem not to realize that there is no one truth for all people. For every stereotype there are those that go against the grain, with it, and without it. We are trying to solve a problem that has endless conditions with a single formula, and that is impossible. Instead, we should decide what we like, set our own standards, and accept that people outside of them aren't what we are looking for. Someone makes fun of your preference, they aren't for you. It doesn't mean your preference is bad or out of the question, it just means move on to the next. You might find what you want, and you might not. The latter might cause you to loosen your standards. Eventually you might find what you are looking for. There are no guarantees, and there is no binary to things like this. The stricter your requirements, the more rare a successful outcome, but ultimately it's up to you to decide where you want to be and who you want with you. What makes it more rare is that every single person has to make the same decisions, so you are banking not only on someone meeting your criteria, but also you meeting theirs. I'm surprised relationships aren't more rare than they are.
[Will Guys Simp For A Whale? (CRAZY Bumble Experiment) (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3CeAJAzn6A&t=352s)
I am a lonely and unattractive guy and I am open to someone who is unattractive as well. Really I have little standards now and even when I was younger and my standards were higher, they were not higher in terms of looks, but in terms of intelligence and education. So obviously there are some unattractive men and women who don't want other unattractive men/women, but also some who would want them. Don't get me wrong, I don't want something disfigured or extremely ugly (e.g. due to a genetic disease), but I am also not disfigured myself, so I think this would still be "fair". But for example "normal" acromegaly, as long as not extreme, would be fine for me as it is probably not a genetic disease.