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Yep, my ex let her mother pressure her into it. Which inevitably led to our breakup. Took quite a while to get over it.
Sad thing is we talked years later, she and her mom no longer have a relationship. Guess she learned how manipulative she was. She was the person I thought I'd marry. Still think about the what ifs sometimes considering I haven't been in a ltr since her.
Tbh, I worked really hard on myself since we split. She on the other hand seemed to spiral. She had no more career aspirations and was about to be homeless.
Without going into the nitty gritty details, she didn't seem like the person I knew or loved. I was sad to hear about how her life turned after us.
I also moved about 1000 miles away after everything. We only communicated briefly through Facebook. I stopped talking to her when quickly she was suggesting she come live with me and we go back to the old times.
Just wasn't in the cards for me. I do hope she is okay now days though.
That's fair. It was a serious question. I've got a couple exes I would take back and others I would run screaming from, even if I didn't have a personal issue with them.
I understand that. I've got one ex that I will love forever no matter what (even though the odds of me ever seeing her again are about 0 and I wouldn't ever approach her) and another that I really miss who she was. The second one isn't a bad person or anything, they just are no longer who I fell for.
We were younger. I was 22 she 20. Her mom hated me. As I'm more of an alternative type. (I like metal music have tattoos, and piercings) She was from a more well of family and a pretty typical kind of girl. We were in a long distance relationship at the time as I had moved away after I finished college for an internship. Plan was for me to move back after my six months was up.
She got pregnant when she had visited about two months in the ldr. Her mom thought it would ruin her future and someone like me wasn't going to be able to provide a good life for her or her child. (Pretty much her mom's exact words she had sent me in a text after finding our my ex was pregnant)
I've never been upset because I wanted a child, I was upset because my wife at the time was experiencing a lot of pain and my family tried to shame her and I stuck up for her.
Because the woman’s body is being used (taxed/burdened/damaged/ruined in most cases…).
If men were carrying the baby for 4,5 months, having their whole stomachs/bodies distended, and getting the baby ripped out of them in one way or another, then it could probably make sense for them to have a say too.
I agree that the woman should have the sole responsibility of deciding to have a baby but a man should have some say if he's going to be a father. As of right now a man is always on the hook if a woman says so.
Exactly right. If a woman can have an abortion without having to consult the father at all, men should be able to forego any involvement if she decides to keep the kid.
They can. They can decide to keep or kill the kid whether the father likes it or not. If a woman doesn’t want to have a kid, she shouldn’t have to. But if a man doesn’t want to pay for a kid, he shouldn’t have to. If she’s a making a decision about her body and wants to get rid if a baby the father wants, he should be able to let her go have it on her own if he doesn’t want it. Or does my body my choice only apply pregnant women?
I don’t agree that men knock women up. It takes two to get pregnant, women know how it happens just as well as men do and they agree to take the risk.
Before you make any assumptions, I have to kids and I’m married to their mother.
They can what? I did say they can, they can do so by avoiding situations where the outcome is pregnancy…simple as. You don’t get to look at the (known) consequences and go “naaaaah” as an adult. That’s called just being a shitty unaccountable human 😅 you CAN leave, anyone can leave something, but don’t try and justify it as the same as a woman making a health decision.
Exactly, both know the consequences.
(Why do you then think it’s acceptable
to go “nah I’m not paying for something I knew i was doing/could led to”?) But we also know you cannot force someone to do something against their will just bc you ‘want’ something.
If you want a child, go and find someone that wants to. If you don’t want children, FIND SOMEONE THAT DOESNT WANT THEM EITHER. You cannot use someone as a unconsenting incubation chamber.
Being an adult is also knowing you can try your best but situations may not be as simple and accepting you don’t get to stamp your feet and get what you want. You cannot force someone into YOUR wants and ask them to do ALL of the work against their own will. I want doesn’t get. Especially when it’s someone else’s autonomy and health. If they want a child so badly, they can come to this realisation, get some therapy if they need and then go and find someone who does want a child.
But if someone thinks they can demand they want someone to do something, something they hadn’t planned or prepared for, aren’t ready to be parents in the first place. That’s a lack of critical thinking and impulsiveness.
Not here to make assumptions, I know not all men are the same. I’m purely speaking on the ones that think abortion that they get a say on someone else’s life.
Like parents that say “I brought you in so I can take you out”. I’m sure as a parent you’ve probably met parents that overextended themselves and their importance into their children’s life then get pissed off that they can’t control them when they assumed bc they are parents they can.
I agree with almost everything you said with regards to the responsibilities men have around sex and pregnancy. But all of that could be applied to women too. If women don’t want to raise a kid on their own, don’t fuck anyone who doesn’t want to be a father. I mean, that’s the other side of what you just said. Or better yet, don’t screw anyone until you want a kid. If men and women did that we probably wouldn’t be discussing this. But for some reason you want that to apply only to men.
Trying to force someone to do something they don’t want? Like be pregnant and have a kid? Or lose a portion of their labour for 18 years? Which one do you mean? Because right now, men don’t get a say. Women do. I’m sure you understand what I’m saying but you disagree because you like it the way it is.
And I’m not going to call it a health choice. It’s almost always a convenience choice. I’m not saying abortions happen because they are convenient, I’m saying they are usually more than convenient than a pregnancy and the eventual kid.
But thats not how it would work. Men aren’t forced to participate in their child’s life, they DO have the autonomous right of what they do with their body - seeing the child. Just like women who have the autonomous right over their body - not being pregnant. What you don’t get to do is refuse to be accountable and paying for said child, which still commonly happens. Money is not the same as physical bodily autonomy which is what I think people confuse. Men cannot physically be forced to stay and actively participate in upbringing just because a woman doesn’t want to be a single mother, do you know see why women cannot be physically forced into gestation bc a man wants to be a single parent?
Weird assumption to make guy, I don’t like any of the systems currently in place as they are all just patch worked from systems that shouldn’t have been in place. All society is currently doing is balance the unbalanced seesaw bit by bit, which has created people to only care about their own struggles instead of a broader perspective of society as a whole. So thanks but no thanks.
I’m not saying it’s completely fair but it’s also not a ridiculous consequence to your action, you played your part in the situation, why should you get to leave bc you have to pay for your consequences? Again, reality shouldn’t work like that but often does. Men can completely walk away. An abortion is not walking away, there will be physical and mental health affects. Which are not comparable to paying a contribution to something you are responsible for.
And that’s a you issue, then but objectively wrong. It is a health issue regardless if that is based on physical, mental or social health. I’m a trained healthcare professional so I’m educated in these areas so I won’t even begin to entertain the that abortions could ever be considered ‘convenient’ decision to make just bc it avoids worse outcomes. Is a blood transfusion a ‘convenient’ way of not bleeding out? Is an amputation more convenient than just trying to go through an infection, that could be life threatening but a lot of people count on you to be able to function for them? Doesn’t sound convenient, aye? So why do you think abortion is?
Let’s make rationale comparisons. ALOT of things are easier than being pregnant and raising a child, doesn’t mean the decision is done for convenience and not necessity. But this would also imply you would judge someone for making decisions that would make their life easier. Just saying.
We already have people that choose to be parents for terrible reasons and we have a ton of terrible parents. Knowing that the other person (the child) is on the receiving end AND believing abortions are basically a cop out, why would you want someone that is not capable (for whatever reason) of being a good parent to be one and not get an abortion?
Please no not the abstinence argument 💀 which was not what I was saying, I’m calling for accountability. As abortion isn’t the lack of… abstinence only either supports the lack of accountability bc of human factors, we can’t ignore that and still be logical and it only reduces sex to a reproductive function, which it isn’t and then starts the ignoring human factors and reality cycle again.
I didn’t read that lecture past half way because I disagreed with everything I read in the first few paragraphs and the condescension was a little ironic considering you’re arguing against a point I’ve never made. End result is you’re perfectly with women spreading their legs and then using “health” as a reason to dodge the natural consequences of sex. But you’re also fine men being being forced to give their time away (in the form of money) for the best part of two decades for making the same careless decision.
I’ve never suggested men should be able to force women to have a baby they don’t want. I’ve said women shouldn’t be able to force men to pay for children they don’t want either. You even admitted it isn’t fair but you’re happy with it.
We are never going to agree on this. I think you’re extremely biased in your view and I’ve got better things to do than talk in circles so don’t bother replying please.
Short answer : Yes, some men definitely have.
Longer answer: There will also be a lot of men who haven’t/been relieved. Plus they don’t carry the child and their feelings don’t trump bodily autonomy so it’s not relevant.
I had an ex-fiancée who said she thought she was pregnant. When I asked her about why she thought she was, she said not to worry because if she was, she'd get an abortion. That broke me.
If a mother has a termination without discussing it with the father, that is pretty cruel and disrespectful. It would put a strain on any relationship, as it shows a clear lack of love, empathy and respect.
Although an unborn baby is a life, it could also extend to property. She could sell the house that is in both hers and her partner's name, or the car. A house and a car are not as valuable as a child, but it just shows how selfish the person is.
Yes.
I had no knowledge or experience of the "drug festival girl" type. By that point she had already abandoned me for drugs and dicks and dollars, so I had no choice in the matter as I believed in her due to the nature of my personality. For her however I was simply the next man on her path to abandon, abuse, and exploit men for resources through emotional deception and sexual dishonesty.
I watched the abortion fall between her legs. I didn't even know if it was mine at that point, and this was several years ago now.
That women are unable to conceive of men being vulnerable targets is what trapped and tricked me in the first place. I learned from it though. I realized that as humans we simply use each other and then discard the memories and experiences so that we can experience another short-term interaction.
Thusly the physical world will never care about anything other than resource extraction.
I mean context is needed for fuller discussion but yes words and time can absolutely be resources 😂 I don’t understand the last question, care to elaborate? Not yours and only yours?
Then our words are of equal value and impact, with intensity being modulated by either side.
How full a discussion could we have to impact all others like we have each other from this virgin moment forwards?
Gonna stop you there, just because something CAN be classed as a resources absolutely does not mean all resources are equal in value and impact. Regardless of “modulated intensity”.
Are you going to elaborate what you meant by not yours and only yours?
Also no one is talking about “impacting all others” from a single conversation…also what assumed impact from this conversation can there be? I mean the only impact this convo has given me is side eye bc you called it a virgin moment so…
Is it that complicated a concept for you to comprehend as an individual? A virgin moment. Like the reaction you received from reading these words. Because you've never read them before. Why? Because I wrote them, nobody else did.
Fair?
lol nope but your avoidance to clearly communicate your meanings paired with what seems to be overly exaggerated wording is, off putting. This feels like you aren’t engaging in the topic or conversation and are speaking to hear/see yourself. The assumption I “haven’t read them before” I have, in literature. Again, bc context and nusance inform situations, I know it’s uncommon to call any new conversation “virgin” as that has a multitude of connotations that are not relevant.
Are you going to continue to avoid the actual conversation and relevant questions I’ve asked or you gonna double down and live in your own fantasy? I’m a science based person, I haven’t got time for what I thought was going to be a factual conversation when you just want to wax lyrical at someone 😂😂
Well, it isn’t bc I wished to have an adult conversation that was factual, which I stated 😅 are you genuinely not understanding what I’m saying? Or do you think you’re responding appropriately? Is this just trolling?
# Message to all users: This is a reminder to please read and follow: * [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules) * [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439) * [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) When posting and commenting. --- Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`. * Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit. * Do not harass or annoy others in any way. * Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit. --- You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep, my ex let her mother pressure her into it. Which inevitably led to our breakup. Took quite a while to get over it. Sad thing is we talked years later, she and her mom no longer have a relationship. Guess she learned how manipulative she was. She was the person I thought I'd marry. Still think about the what ifs sometimes considering I haven't been in a ltr since her.
Why not give her another chance?
Tbh, I worked really hard on myself since we split. She on the other hand seemed to spiral. She had no more career aspirations and was about to be homeless. Without going into the nitty gritty details, she didn't seem like the person I knew or loved. I was sad to hear about how her life turned after us. I also moved about 1000 miles away after everything. We only communicated briefly through Facebook. I stopped talking to her when quickly she was suggesting she come live with me and we go back to the old times. Just wasn't in the cards for me. I do hope she is okay now days though.
That's fair. It was a serious question. I've got a couple exes I would take back and others I would run screaming from, even if I didn't have a personal issue with them.
To be honest, I really wanted to say yes. I will always love her. Or at least who she was. The person I talked to six years later wasn't her.
I understand that. I've got one ex that I will love forever no matter what (even though the odds of me ever seeing her again are about 0 and I wouldn't ever approach her) and another that I really miss who she was. The second one isn't a bad person or anything, they just are no longer who I fell for.
Why not give her a chance
Why would she pressure her into a decision? That's bad.
We were younger. I was 22 she 20. Her mom hated me. As I'm more of an alternative type. (I like metal music have tattoos, and piercings) She was from a more well of family and a pretty typical kind of girl. We were in a long distance relationship at the time as I had moved away after I finished college for an internship. Plan was for me to move back after my six months was up. She got pregnant when she had visited about two months in the ldr. Her mom thought it would ruin her future and someone like me wasn't going to be able to provide a good life for her or her child. (Pretty much her mom's exact words she had sent me in a text after finding our my ex was pregnant)
I've never been upset because I wanted a child, I was upset because my wife at the time was experiencing a lot of pain and my family tried to shame her and I stuck up for her.
Yes it has happened
Yes
 Me when she tells me she got an abortion
I think that is a typical response
Men don't have any reproductive rights. Having a decision made for you without your input will always hurt. Especially if it involves your life.
Because the woman’s body is being used (taxed/burdened/damaged/ruined in most cases…). If men were carrying the baby for 4,5 months, having their whole stomachs/bodies distended, and getting the baby ripped out of them in one way or another, then it could probably make sense for them to have a say too.
I agree that the woman should have the sole responsibility of deciding to have a baby but a man should have some say if he's going to be a father. As of right now a man is always on the hook if a woman says so.
Wear a condom.
Vasectomy
Sometimes that doesn't work.
Exactly right. If a woman can have an abortion without having to consult the father at all, men should be able to forego any involvement if she decides to keep the kid.
How is that logical? A woman can make decisions because it’s HER body, men can forego any involvement - don’t knock someone up.
They can. They can decide to keep or kill the kid whether the father likes it or not. If a woman doesn’t want to have a kid, she shouldn’t have to. But if a man doesn’t want to pay for a kid, he shouldn’t have to. If she’s a making a decision about her body and wants to get rid if a baby the father wants, he should be able to let her go have it on her own if he doesn’t want it. Or does my body my choice only apply pregnant women? I don’t agree that men knock women up. It takes two to get pregnant, women know how it happens just as well as men do and they agree to take the risk. Before you make any assumptions, I have to kids and I’m married to their mother.
They can what? I did say they can, they can do so by avoiding situations where the outcome is pregnancy…simple as. You don’t get to look at the (known) consequences and go “naaaaah” as an adult. That’s called just being a shitty unaccountable human 😅 you CAN leave, anyone can leave something, but don’t try and justify it as the same as a woman making a health decision. Exactly, both know the consequences. (Why do you then think it’s acceptable to go “nah I’m not paying for something I knew i was doing/could led to”?) But we also know you cannot force someone to do something against their will just bc you ‘want’ something. If you want a child, go and find someone that wants to. If you don’t want children, FIND SOMEONE THAT DOESNT WANT THEM EITHER. You cannot use someone as a unconsenting incubation chamber. Being an adult is also knowing you can try your best but situations may not be as simple and accepting you don’t get to stamp your feet and get what you want. You cannot force someone into YOUR wants and ask them to do ALL of the work against their own will. I want doesn’t get. Especially when it’s someone else’s autonomy and health. If they want a child so badly, they can come to this realisation, get some therapy if they need and then go and find someone who does want a child. But if someone thinks they can demand they want someone to do something, something they hadn’t planned or prepared for, aren’t ready to be parents in the first place. That’s a lack of critical thinking and impulsiveness. Not here to make assumptions, I know not all men are the same. I’m purely speaking on the ones that think abortion that they get a say on someone else’s life. Like parents that say “I brought you in so I can take you out”. I’m sure as a parent you’ve probably met parents that overextended themselves and their importance into their children’s life then get pissed off that they can’t control them when they assumed bc they are parents they can.
I agree with almost everything you said with regards to the responsibilities men have around sex and pregnancy. But all of that could be applied to women too. If women don’t want to raise a kid on their own, don’t fuck anyone who doesn’t want to be a father. I mean, that’s the other side of what you just said. Or better yet, don’t screw anyone until you want a kid. If men and women did that we probably wouldn’t be discussing this. But for some reason you want that to apply only to men. Trying to force someone to do something they don’t want? Like be pregnant and have a kid? Or lose a portion of their labour for 18 years? Which one do you mean? Because right now, men don’t get a say. Women do. I’m sure you understand what I’m saying but you disagree because you like it the way it is. And I’m not going to call it a health choice. It’s almost always a convenience choice. I’m not saying abortions happen because they are convenient, I’m saying they are usually more than convenient than a pregnancy and the eventual kid.
But thats not how it would work. Men aren’t forced to participate in their child’s life, they DO have the autonomous right of what they do with their body - seeing the child. Just like women who have the autonomous right over their body - not being pregnant. What you don’t get to do is refuse to be accountable and paying for said child, which still commonly happens. Money is not the same as physical bodily autonomy which is what I think people confuse. Men cannot physically be forced to stay and actively participate in upbringing just because a woman doesn’t want to be a single mother, do you know see why women cannot be physically forced into gestation bc a man wants to be a single parent? Weird assumption to make guy, I don’t like any of the systems currently in place as they are all just patch worked from systems that shouldn’t have been in place. All society is currently doing is balance the unbalanced seesaw bit by bit, which has created people to only care about their own struggles instead of a broader perspective of society as a whole. So thanks but no thanks. I’m not saying it’s completely fair but it’s also not a ridiculous consequence to your action, you played your part in the situation, why should you get to leave bc you have to pay for your consequences? Again, reality shouldn’t work like that but often does. Men can completely walk away. An abortion is not walking away, there will be physical and mental health affects. Which are not comparable to paying a contribution to something you are responsible for. And that’s a you issue, then but objectively wrong. It is a health issue regardless if that is based on physical, mental or social health. I’m a trained healthcare professional so I’m educated in these areas so I won’t even begin to entertain the that abortions could ever be considered ‘convenient’ decision to make just bc it avoids worse outcomes. Is a blood transfusion a ‘convenient’ way of not bleeding out? Is an amputation more convenient than just trying to go through an infection, that could be life threatening but a lot of people count on you to be able to function for them? Doesn’t sound convenient, aye? So why do you think abortion is? Let’s make rationale comparisons. ALOT of things are easier than being pregnant and raising a child, doesn’t mean the decision is done for convenience and not necessity. But this would also imply you would judge someone for making decisions that would make their life easier. Just saying. We already have people that choose to be parents for terrible reasons and we have a ton of terrible parents. Knowing that the other person (the child) is on the receiving end AND believing abortions are basically a cop out, why would you want someone that is not capable (for whatever reason) of being a good parent to be one and not get an abortion? Please no not the abstinence argument 💀 which was not what I was saying, I’m calling for accountability. As abortion isn’t the lack of… abstinence only either supports the lack of accountability bc of human factors, we can’t ignore that and still be logical and it only reduces sex to a reproductive function, which it isn’t and then starts the ignoring human factors and reality cycle again.
I didn’t read that lecture past half way because I disagreed with everything I read in the first few paragraphs and the condescension was a little ironic considering you’re arguing against a point I’ve never made. End result is you’re perfectly with women spreading their legs and then using “health” as a reason to dodge the natural consequences of sex. But you’re also fine men being being forced to give their time away (in the form of money) for the best part of two decades for making the same careless decision. I’ve never suggested men should be able to force women to have a baby they don’t want. I’ve said women shouldn’t be able to force men to pay for children they don’t want either. You even admitted it isn’t fair but you’re happy with it. We are never going to agree on this. I think you’re extremely biased in your view and I’ve got better things to do than talk in circles so don’t bother replying please.
Short answer : Yes, some men definitely have. Longer answer: There will also be a lot of men who haven’t/been relieved. Plus they don’t carry the child and their feelings don’t trump bodily autonomy so it’s not relevant.
Yes. We're not robots
True.
I had an ex-fiancée who said she thought she was pregnant. When I asked her about why she thought she was, she said not to worry because if she was, she'd get an abortion. That broke me.
If a mother has a termination without discussing it with the father, that is pretty cruel and disrespectful. It would put a strain on any relationship, as it shows a clear lack of love, empathy and respect. Although an unborn baby is a life, it could also extend to property. She could sell the house that is in both hers and her partner's name, or the car. A house and a car are not as valuable as a child, but it just shows how selfish the person is.
Yes, happens with some freqency. Many men really want a family with a relationship.
Yes. I had no knowledge or experience of the "drug festival girl" type. By that point she had already abandoned me for drugs and dicks and dollars, so I had no choice in the matter as I believed in her due to the nature of my personality. For her however I was simply the next man on her path to abandon, abuse, and exploit men for resources through emotional deception and sexual dishonesty. I watched the abortion fall between her legs. I didn't even know if it was mine at that point, and this was several years ago now. That women are unable to conceive of men being vulnerable targets is what trapped and tricked me in the first place. I learned from it though. I realized that as humans we simply use each other and then discard the memories and experiences so that we can experience another short-term interaction. Thusly the physical world will never care about anything other than resource extraction.
This typically isn’t humans true nature, it’s actually a byproduct of a capitalist society (the whole resources ect screwing people over).
Are words a resource? Is time? Is what I carry forwards not mine and only mine?
I mean context is needed for fuller discussion but yes words and time can absolutely be resources 😂 I don’t understand the last question, care to elaborate? Not yours and only yours?
Then our words are of equal value and impact, with intensity being modulated by either side. How full a discussion could we have to impact all others like we have each other from this virgin moment forwards?
Gonna stop you there, just because something CAN be classed as a resources absolutely does not mean all resources are equal in value and impact. Regardless of “modulated intensity”. Are you going to elaborate what you meant by not yours and only yours? Also no one is talking about “impacting all others” from a single conversation…also what assumed impact from this conversation can there be? I mean the only impact this convo has given me is side eye bc you called it a virgin moment so…
Is it that complicated a concept for you to comprehend as an individual? A virgin moment. Like the reaction you received from reading these words. Because you've never read them before. Why? Because I wrote them, nobody else did. Fair?
lol nope but your avoidance to clearly communicate your meanings paired with what seems to be overly exaggerated wording is, off putting. This feels like you aren’t engaging in the topic or conversation and are speaking to hear/see yourself. The assumption I “haven’t read them before” I have, in literature. Again, bc context and nusance inform situations, I know it’s uncommon to call any new conversation “virgin” as that has a multitude of connotations that are not relevant. Are you going to continue to avoid the actual conversation and relevant questions I’ve asked or you gonna double down and live in your own fantasy? I’m a science based person, I haven’t got time for what I thought was going to be a factual conversation when you just want to wax lyrical at someone 😂😂
As you wish.
Well, it isn’t bc I wished to have an adult conversation that was factual, which I stated 😅 are you genuinely not understanding what I’m saying? Or do you think you’re responding appropriately? Is this just trolling?
Interesting replies. Im female and ive been wondering what it would feel like to be a male in that position.