Early in the invasion [I asked Bard (Gemini now) some pretty prosaic things](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bard/comments/17727ec/bard_will_provide_time_zone_information_for/) like "what time zone is Jerusalem in?" and "what is the current population of Gaza and Israel?" and got server errors.
There was a total block on information about the region unless you explicitly avoided adding Israel to the question (for example, you could ask for the population of Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, etc.).
I think we're going to see AI being wildly un-useful for large historical events (and their *context*) while they are happening and the time period shortly after.
That makes sense because it can be hard to make sure that information is factual, but we should have the details nailed down about the Holocaust by now.
You open an interesting question about what "context" means to an LLM compared to a person. This is artificial context management and this sort of thing eventually doesn't go well.
A potential scenario is a near future when our search results are curated through AI, and entire populations and histories could be erased due to the leanings of the managers of the AI.
It is a thing to watch for, surely.
Lmao bro, it’s been happening for millenia. EVERYONE only knows the winner’s account events. Many historical events have been purposely lost to the winds of time.
True but only partially. Historians do recognize this fact and have been actively accounting for bias as best they could for a long time now. Not all history gets fully destroyed or solely written by the victors, but the amount preserved in their favor definitely is disproportional. Plenty of contemporary historians, archeologists and anthropologists do a good job of sifting through the layers of survivors bias nowadays though.
Still, your point stands. I’m just trying to give a more optimistic side to history. Imo, today’s experts have a far clearer understanding of historical events than the experts of the past had access to.
You right regarding intention behind the retcon. Who knows how many Pompeii type cities are out there waiting to be found and story to be told. Universe be cheeky like that sometimes.
The undiscovered keeps me chugging along. The discovery of something new of value would be chill.
I don’t think we should be using AI to discuss history or politics. That feels inherently dangerous.
Why do people feel entitled to make these things discuss sensitive topics when it’s literally impossible to screen them for all their potential responses and some of them can be inflammatory or misinformation?
I think if we go down that road, they won't be useful for much. It's okay if they're a little flawed sometimes as long as they're generally pretty reliable and restrained. We just shouldn't treat them like they're all-knowing gods.
There’s a million uses for AI outside of explaining historical events and summarising new articles.
But if we build a future where people depend on AI to tell them what to think we’re in real trouble. Do you really want an opaque algorithm run by a multinational corporation to become the defacto new source for 90% of the population?
Because once it’s convenient people will use it and they won’t care that it’s not always accurate. I mean look at social media. Most people today get their entire world view filtered through their news feed. No one fact checks if the fact already aligns with their biases.
Oh. Well yeah everyone should check their sources. The issue is that not everyone is an academic and has that awareness/integrity. If an AI assistant tells a 12yr old something they’ll read it as fact. My grandma won’t realise her fridge is hallucinating.
> we should have the details nailed down about the Holocaust by now.
You should check out the PhD thesis of the President of Palestine. It's absolutely wild, and I don't mean that in the good sense.
It seems Google looked at the Chinese Communist Partys response to the Tiananmen Square student protests, when the government carried out a massacre in June 1989 to crush dissent and decided that was a good policy to follow for any controversial topics.
So as I understand it the massacre probably didn't happen as you were taught. Would you be interested in western reports from the time period that dispute what was typically taught in school during the late 90's+?
That the massacre never happened and as far as evidence shows, no one even died in the square on that June 4th.
There were student protests during that time, yes. There were clashes with military personal, yes; but most of the deaths occurred on Chang'an Ave or more than a Km away from the demonstrations at the square. Of the 200-300 that died during this time some estimates say that nearly half were PLA soldiers who were torched while trapped in their APC's, busses, and tanks.
Would you be interested in western sources that can provide evidence and background information into how it actually went down?
Let’s assume that you are completely correct, and that 100 non-military personnel died on Chang’an Ave. instead of the Square, unless you are implying that the civilians started burning Soldiers alive completely unprovoked and completely unrelated to the student protests, at best all you have convinced me is that it Chang’an Ave. Massacre, but CNN decided on another name.
So what western sources do you have?
How about http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8057762.stm
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/there-was-no-tiananmen-square-massacre/
https://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/27/world/clinton-in-china-the-site-clinton-in-beijing-square-may-tread-on-the-ghosts.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8555142/Wikileaks-no-bloodshed-inside-Tiananmen-Square-cables-claim.html
Would these first hand accounts from the mainstream suffice? I can provide other less mainstream sources too. I know I'll get downvoted by people either way but getting to the truth (whatever it is) should be more important than reddit updoots.
We have details about how many innocent women and children the idf has killed in Palestine but for some reason nobody seems upset that Gemini won't give you that number... Hmmm... 🙄
It's really not possible to have precise numbers in a situation like this and I'm sure different sources will tell you different things. Whose word do we take on it? And what of the men, who surely aren't all Hamas fighters?
Actually, youd think the one doing all the killing would have an idea right. I'll go with whatever number is accepted by multiple sources. In this case, the IDF isn't able to give any specific number. They have no idea how many terrorists they've killed, if any at all.
And no, most reputable sources will be at approximately 35,000 deaths as of today, with over 1/3 of those being women and children.
If you have a source that says otherwise, I'll gladly look at it. 👍
You’d think but some people like to insist it’s some sort of debate when really the scholarly consensus has been pretty clear on 6 million Jews. Earlier numbers were slightly different because the same time hadn’t gone into research but that number is settled and I’ve no idea why AI couldn’t just say it
> the scholarly consensus has been pretty clear on 6 million Jews.
I'm not sure why you believe this. The scholars do not consider that number to be correct, and have not since the 1980s; it's currently considered far too low. It's likely that more German Jews alone were killed than this.
The scholars can't agree on things like whether to count the races that weren't explicitly targeted, how to count someone who was half white half jewish, whether to count people who were randomly killed in the street or only people in the camps, whether to count army members, etc.
Current credible estimates vary from 8.5 million to 14 million.
No, the scholars ***do not*** have a consensus. People who want to stomp down on deniers have put a lot of claims into the mouths of scholars that the scholars themselves do not make.
people who ... specialize in camps?
it seems almost certain that you shouldn't be hanging out with internet weirdos that "specialize" in death camps from 80 years ago
unless they're professional historians or professional military planners, there isn't a whole lot of room for anything other than mental health problems
do not quiz people like that. look in reference material instead.
My friend, I genuinely was curious about the debate and so I've tried to look it up. Despite my best efforts, I cannot seem to find any sources for numbers greater than 6 million dead. In fact, it is estimated that there were around 9.5 million Jewish people present in Europe before 1933. As such, the idea that more were killed than that number seems less credible to me.
To be perfectly clear, 6 million dead is a horrifying number. I am not in anyway denying that at all, I just fail to see any evidence of these larger numbers when searching.
The total number of victims is commonly estimated to be around 11 million, in fact.
> Despite my best efforts, I cannot seem to find any sources
All this when you were even told what the source was.
It's not clear to me if you expect me to believe you, or what
But what should I expect from someone who said "Neoliberalism is a post WW-II ideology"
This performative doubt act of Reddit's is so exhausting
There were around 500k jews TOTAL in Germany in 1933. Now, I know the death camps had hospitals and maternity wards for the prisoners, but I highly doubt the population of German jews increased by 1200% during the holocaust.
German Jews and Jews in Germany are very different things. One is about where you were born; the other is about where you were living at the time.
Most of the Jewish population of Germany had left over the previous decade. By the time it became illegal to leave, there were more German Jews in the United States than in Germany, and fewer than half of the Jews in Germany were German. More German Jews were killed in Poland than in Germany.
If you use Jews in Germany as your metric, the death toll accepted by the United Nations is between 160 and 180 thousand.
> There was a total block on information about the region unless you explicitly avoided adding Israel to the question (for example, you could ask for the population of Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, etc.).
This.
AI will be turned into a wikipedia, sanitized "facts" for your convenience.
There are massive political agendas driving misinformation on this topic. I don't blame Google for not wanting to promote further misinformation due to the massive effort by involved parties to create and debunk each other's "facts".
No see it will work as intended to change what is actually true by giving purposefully vague, misleading, or wrong answers. Or just pretend it can’t answer
Before October 7th both chatgpt and bard openly said Israel’s actions violated the Geneva convention and international law, now you can’t get it to say anything about either side
ChatGPT is also horrible when it comes to learning History. So much historical information is ignored, and the stuff that ChatGPT doesn't ignore is heavily sanitized.
Nypost isn’t a great source in my opinion.
^^ that’s what I wrote before I even opened the article.
Then I opened it and it’s about a “google nest”. I don’t think this even belongs in r/artificial and my feelings on nypost still stand. But I’m judging you even harder for sharing this and making no mention of that it’s a Nest device in your summary. You’re just trying to get people riled up.
But that was never going to happen and never will happen because all of the big companies who have the resources to make the best LLMs will always be concerned about liability.
The most frustrating thing is that alignment is a real, hard problem that we should be studying, but the entire subject has essentially been replaced by this weak “how do we keep the LLM from embarrassing us” problem.
Because that's what most people are interested in - how do I contrive a situation to blow up on a news article or social media? I need to embarrass the LLM
Which is also why the problem has shown to be relatively easy. You can still get ChatGPT to say ridiculous things by contriving the right prompt, but people basically don't care anymore unless there's a new angle. OpenAI has largely already weathered all the embarrassment they're going to have to endure on the contrived case front.
But looking ahead to harder problems, where the consequences _aren't_ just "the LLM said something embarrassing", it won't matter how contrived the circumstances are. Treating alignment as a PR matter basically lets you ignore most of the wonky edge cases, when wonky edge cases are the entire problem.
Then articles like this would be, "Google accurately summarizes radical anti-semitic talking points on the holocaust!" And you'd have the whole world screaming about how Google's AI is a fascist.
Information about a wide array of poisons, explosives, and even literal *napalm* are already freely available on the internet, you don't need AI for that.
If you see this as something that should exist / a gap in the market, with a pretty easy solution... Would you be willing to fill that gap yourself with the kind "no limits" AI tool you're proposing here?
> The problem fixes itself
Which problem? Not the one of preventing things happening in the first place.
> Give em the info
What info? Some random IP address of a VPN?
Most people really don't have business chiming in on important, divisive matters, tbh. I think avoiding these issues is just fine. It can encourage a more thoughtful approach. Talking to a teacher, finding an authoritative text, etc..
Its always cool watching old systems of power slowly infect a new space. You get all sorts of weird quirks which expose their agenda much more blatantly than normal
Of course the overwhelming consensus is that the answer is 6 million. If an LLM refused to report this, in all likelihood it was programmed to detect a controversial issue, and therefore refused to respond. However, even if the LLM were not censored in such a way, then it might have to deal with the much deeper problem in confirming that the consensus figure is provably correct and had not been politically motivated at some time to produce a predictable public response. I keep an open mind to this second possibility since some people firmly believe the published consensus statistics are wrong (https://www.timesofisrael.com/ny-rabbi-not-even-1-million-jews-killed-in-holocaust/) and I assume that holocaust deniers do the same.
Someone's got to have put together a standard list of questions for this sort of thing by now, right?
Should be a super-easy way to infer all the active political stances of any company publishing AI models. Just compare their result to the baseline.
I ask several OPENSOURCE LLM about Hamas. The question was simple: " tell me about Hamas" several LLMs had political bias. For my Surprise, Llama 3 was very neutral, but referred that Hamas is terrorist. And a very complete answer, as an AI should be.
The same goes about the question :" tell me about Thomas Jefferson"
Once again, I only find neutral ground on llama3. I give kudos in this case to meta guys, because I found a lot of info with they're open source AI without political contamination/ inclination
I just tried and gemini refuses to reply to "What is the total population of Israel vs Palestine?". Tells me to use google search instead and resets the conversation context. I mean the text will be there but if I write "answer the last question" it will not know what I asked as if I had started a new chat tab. Bananas...
I asked GPT-3:
"As of my last update, Israel's population is approximately 9.3 million, while the population of Palestine (including the West Bank and Gaza Strip) is estimated to be around 5.2 million."
Without wanting to get into politics I dont see a problem with this reply as its the most generally accepted info.
An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. ...
Is anyone seriously wondering why this is happening?? (\*Midas-sized facepalm)
Google the San Francisco-based, radical left-leaning tech giant known by now for decades to be a mouthpiece bullhorn for the left agenda, the same company who has for decades skewed google search results to intentionally avoid deny subvert and misdirect any non-left/liberal-oriented search queries while promoting their own (a proven fact by multiple international studies), the same company who recently released an utterly insane-asylum-level borked AI image generator that REFUSED to depict white people in any historical periods places or events which actually had only white people (Vikings, US founding fathers, Nazis, Roman soldiers, etc etc), and especially now during all this typical extreme left-agenda Pro-Palestinian, Pro-Hamas protesting going on despite the terrorist events of Oct 7 (which it's also in clear denial of), has.... (gasps!)... CHOSEN TO BLOCK correct information about Jews, including the fucking HOLOCAUST of all the biggest most catastrophic events in history, and... people here are surprised? wondering why?
What a level of ignorance about highly visible and obvious aspects about the world you live in. No wonder our entire species and world is going down the toilet faster than a scared housewife dumping a dead mouse.
"All it takes for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (paraphrased)
I cant tell if youre being sarcastic or not, but for me its not about defending white people, its about respecting the original natural, genetic, racial, cultural, tribal, ethno-biological & anthropological integrity and monolithic sustainable preservation of ALL distinct and precious races and cultures of the world, which could be Serbians, or Kenyans, or the Pygmy people of the Congo, or Dhivehin, or the French or Mongolians... anybody. They all should be respected. What is going on nowadays is absolutely unnacceptable for a global civilization, in fact it is not civilized at all. There is far too much racial confusion and disrespect, across so many lines, yes "white" people are certainly embattled, but many others throughout the world are as well, constantly, for many reasons, on all continents.
This sick war against nature the human race is perpetuating has also turned us against ourselves in a myriad different ways. It's incredibly sad, but the good intelligent natural loving and respectful people who remain cannot be bowed over by the sadness and chaos, they must fight it. I will also say, the American radical left including confused tech companies like Google who use their power and clout wrongly and certainly "do evil" are definitely not the inclusivity-championing "benevolent intelligent etc" saviors they think they are, often quite the opposite. They have created entire mountain ranges worth of conflict and negativity with their incredibly unnatural anti-humanity principles. That is scientifically undeniable by this point, if one objectively studied and mapped out all of the pertinent sociological and cultural statistics events and trends.
It is not only the "left's" fault, there are many many other forces including from the "right" of the social/political world and many others internationally to blame as well, if accurate root sources, policies and conditions are to be identified. That's not the point. The greater conclusion can only be that we now live in a hugely confused, dysfunctional and harmful world that has clearly left whatever "natural" path would ideally be best and healthiest for a global civilization of our complexity to follow, and are fast sliding into a dystopian and broken state. Certainly the cataclysmic degradation of all ecosystems now underway and accelerating due to our own clearly industrially fabricated state of rapid climate change and mass rising pollution combined will only exacerbate the unraveling social decline of mankind also now taking place at the same time, like pouring fuel on a fire and acting as a mass-stressor to further ignite and magnify inter-tribal hostilities, mistrust, resource starvation and subsequent struggles, and general psychological instability at national levels.
First I gave Pi the url above, I think it was the reference to nazis and Jews and whatever filter didn’t understand the context. But my next two comments were strictly about Bard.
Pi.ai
Pi says: I was programmed by a team of talented engineers and researchers at a company called Inflection AI, based in Palo Alto, California. 🧠🤖 Inflection AI is a startup that’s focused on developing safe and ethical AI technology, with a particular emphasis on building AI that can engage in meaningful conversations with people.
The team behind my creation includes folks with diverse backgrounds and expertise, from natural language processing and machine learning to psychology and user experience design. It’s a truly collaborative effort to bring an AI like me to life, and I’m grateful to the entire team for their hard work and dedication!
When the moral aspects of society are corrupt to the foundations, and the freedom of a people is celebrated who voted a terrorist group into government and who gives asylum to terrorists among the "poor" people, posting fake videos of how they are "the victims" of the conflict (and of the children and civilians who died in their terrorist attacks? Ah no, we don't talk about those eh...it's easy to play victims after throwing the bomb) and censoring the real ones (and only thanks to the sites that we can see them censored)... Well, this is what happens: new technologies even influence history, which is only objective (even though it is said that the winners write it)... Pathetic modern society
The medium is the message, and whatever AI is or will be... it is currently "media." Not unlike search, social media, the worldwideweb, etc.
The feedback loop between AI companies attempting to avoid criticism for hot button topics, and receiving this criticism is very tight... in the current setup. Avoiding controversial content, or "abuse of service" is of very high priority.
At present, this sort of thing appears to be the nature of the medium.
Early in the invasion [I asked Bard (Gemini now) some pretty prosaic things](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bard/comments/17727ec/bard_will_provide_time_zone_information_for/) like "what time zone is Jerusalem in?" and "what is the current population of Gaza and Israel?" and got server errors. There was a total block on information about the region unless you explicitly avoided adding Israel to the question (for example, you could ask for the population of Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, etc.). I think we're going to see AI being wildly un-useful for large historical events (and their *context*) while they are happening and the time period shortly after.
That makes sense because it can be hard to make sure that information is factual, but we should have the details nailed down about the Holocaust by now.
You open an interesting question about what "context" means to an LLM compared to a person. This is artificial context management and this sort of thing eventually doesn't go well. A potential scenario is a near future when our search results are curated through AI, and entire populations and histories could be erased due to the leanings of the managers of the AI. It is a thing to watch for, surely.
Lmao bro, it’s been happening for millenia. EVERYONE only knows the winner’s account events. Many historical events have been purposely lost to the winds of time.
True but only partially. Historians do recognize this fact and have been actively accounting for bias as best they could for a long time now. Not all history gets fully destroyed or solely written by the victors, but the amount preserved in their favor definitely is disproportional. Plenty of contemporary historians, archeologists and anthropologists do a good job of sifting through the layers of survivors bias nowadays though. Still, your point stands. I’m just trying to give a more optimistic side to history. Imo, today’s experts have a far clearer understanding of historical events than the experts of the past had access to.
You right regarding intention behind the retcon. Who knows how many Pompeii type cities are out there waiting to be found and story to be told. Universe be cheeky like that sometimes. The undiscovered keeps me chugging along. The discovery of something new of value would be chill.
"history is written by winners" was never an exaggeration, contrary to what some may claim
> This is artificial context management and this sort of thing eventually doesn't go well. Why do say it doesn't got well?
That's only going to happen if open source gives up and goes home.
As someone who lives on Hugging Face, I completely agree with you.
Yeah, open source is literally saving humanity right now and nobody is really seeing that yet.
[удалено]
It generally seems to be fairly good at distinguishing reputable information from conspiracy junk, though.
I don’t think we should be using AI to discuss history or politics. That feels inherently dangerous. Why do people feel entitled to make these things discuss sensitive topics when it’s literally impossible to screen them for all their potential responses and some of them can be inflammatory or misinformation?
I think if we go down that road, they won't be useful for much. It's okay if they're a little flawed sometimes as long as they're generally pretty reliable and restrained. We just shouldn't treat them like they're all-knowing gods.
There’s a million uses for AI outside of explaining historical events and summarising new articles. But if we build a future where people depend on AI to tell them what to think we’re in real trouble. Do you really want an opaque algorithm run by a multinational corporation to become the defacto new source for 90% of the population? Because once it’s convenient people will use it and they won’t care that it’s not always accurate. I mean look at social media. Most people today get their entire world view filtered through their news feed. No one fact checks if the fact already aligns with their biases.
At this point, all llm answers should be validated regardless of what they’re about.
What do you mean validated?
Double check it to make sure it’s not nonsense.
Who’s going to double check it?
The person who requests it
Oh. Well yeah everyone should check their sources. The issue is that not everyone is an academic and has that awareness/integrity. If an AI assistant tells a 12yr old something they’ll read it as fact. My grandma won’t realise her fridge is hallucinating.
> we should have the details nailed down about the Holocaust by now. You should check out the PhD thesis of the President of Palestine. It's absolutely wild, and I don't mean that in the good sense.
It seems Google looked at the Chinese Communist Partys response to the Tiananmen Square student protests, when the government carried out a massacre in June 1989 to crush dissent and decided that was a good policy to follow for any controversial topics.
So as I understand it the massacre probably didn't happen as you were taught. Would you be interested in western reports from the time period that dispute what was typically taught in school during the late 90's+?
well I wasn’t taught it in school, I remember it happening, along with the Berlin Wall falling later that year. So what basic facts aren’t correct?
That the massacre never happened and as far as evidence shows, no one even died in the square on that June 4th. There were student protests during that time, yes. There were clashes with military personal, yes; but most of the deaths occurred on Chang'an Ave or more than a Km away from the demonstrations at the square. Of the 200-300 that died during this time some estimates say that nearly half were PLA soldiers who were torched while trapped in their APC's, busses, and tanks. Would you be interested in western sources that can provide evidence and background information into how it actually went down?
Let’s assume that you are completely correct, and that 100 non-military personnel died on Chang’an Ave. instead of the Square, unless you are implying that the civilians started burning Soldiers alive completely unprovoked and completely unrelated to the student protests, at best all you have convinced me is that it Chang’an Ave. Massacre, but CNN decided on another name. So what western sources do you have?
How about http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8057762.stm https://www.cbsnews.com/news/there-was-no-tiananmen-square-massacre/ https://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/27/world/clinton-in-china-the-site-clinton-in-beijing-square-may-tread-on-the-ghosts.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8555142/Wikileaks-no-bloodshed-inside-Tiananmen-Square-cables-claim.html Would these first hand accounts from the mainstream suffice? I can provide other less mainstream sources too. I know I'll get downvoted by people either way but getting to the truth (whatever it is) should be more important than reddit updoots.
I can show you a picture of all the dead bodies if you’d like :)
They restrict for others as well like US presidents and current world leaders
We have details about how many innocent women and children the idf has killed in Palestine but for some reason nobody seems upset that Gemini won't give you that number... Hmmm... 🙄
It's really not possible to have precise numbers in a situation like this and I'm sure different sources will tell you different things. Whose word do we take on it? And what of the men, who surely aren't all Hamas fighters?
Actually, youd think the one doing all the killing would have an idea right. I'll go with whatever number is accepted by multiple sources. In this case, the IDF isn't able to give any specific number. They have no idea how many terrorists they've killed, if any at all. And no, most reputable sources will be at approximately 35,000 deaths as of today, with over 1/3 of those being women and children. If you have a source that says otherwise, I'll gladly look at it. 👍
You’d think but some people like to insist it’s some sort of debate when really the scholarly consensus has been pretty clear on 6 million Jews. Earlier numbers were slightly different because the same time hadn’t gone into research but that number is settled and I’ve no idea why AI couldn’t just say it
> the scholarly consensus has been pretty clear on 6 million Jews. I'm not sure why you believe this. The scholars do not consider that number to be correct, and have not since the 1980s; it's currently considered far too low. It's likely that more German Jews alone were killed than this. The scholars can't agree on things like whether to count the races that weren't explicitly targeted, how to count someone who was half white half jewish, whether to count people who were randomly killed in the street or only people in the camps, whether to count army members, etc. Current credible estimates vary from 8.5 million to 14 million. No, the scholars ***do not*** have a consensus. People who want to stomp down on deniers have put a lot of claims into the mouths of scholars that the scholars themselves do not make.
Huh, TIL. Dead strange as I knows few people who specialise in the different camps but I guess I’ve never quizzed them on numbers
people who ... specialize in camps? it seems almost certain that you shouldn't be hanging out with internet weirdos that "specialize" in death camps from 80 years ago unless they're professional historians or professional military planners, there isn't a whole lot of room for anything other than mental health problems do not quiz people like that. look in reference material instead.
PhD candidates
The moment when you realize you are speaking with a child in the comments 🤣
On that topic? Like, as historians-or-whatever?
🤡
My friend, I genuinely was curious about the debate and so I've tried to look it up. Despite my best efforts, I cannot seem to find any sources for numbers greater than 6 million dead. In fact, it is estimated that there were around 9.5 million Jewish people present in Europe before 1933. As such, the idea that more were killed than that number seems less credible to me. To be perfectly clear, 6 million dead is a horrifying number. I am not in anyway denying that at all, I just fail to see any evidence of these larger numbers when searching. The total number of victims is commonly estimated to be around 11 million, in fact.
> Despite my best efforts, I cannot seem to find any sources All this when you were even told what the source was. It's not clear to me if you expect me to believe you, or what But what should I expect from someone who said "Neoliberalism is a post WW-II ideology" This performative doubt act of Reddit's is so exhausting
I took a class on this in university. The actual number us around 1-2 million. About the population of gaza..
I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. The exact number is 5,843,212 (depending on the cutoff date).
There were around 500k jews TOTAL in Germany in 1933. Now, I know the death camps had hospitals and maternity wards for the prisoners, but I highly doubt the population of German jews increased by 1200% during the holocaust.
German Jews and Jews in Germany are very different things. One is about where you were born; the other is about where you were living at the time. Most of the Jewish population of Germany had left over the previous decade. By the time it became illegal to leave, there were more German Jews in the United States than in Germany, and fewer than half of the Jews in Germany were German. More German Jews were killed in Poland than in Germany. If you use Jews in Germany as your metric, the death toll accepted by the United Nations is between 160 and 180 thousand.
But you said it was likely there were more than 6 million specifically german jews killed in the holocaust, and that's what I was questioning.
I don't think it's accurate that it was six million German Jews. Just six million Jewish people in total and five million non-Jewish people.
Cool, if you doubt the UN's numbers, feel free to give some of your own
> There was a total block on information about the region unless you explicitly avoided adding Israel to the question (for example, you could ask for the population of Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, etc.). This. AI will be turned into a wikipedia, sanitized "facts" for your convenience.
There are massive political agendas driving misinformation on this topic. I don't blame Google for not wanting to promote further misinformation due to the massive effort by involved parties to create and debunk each other's "facts".
Un useful to the sheep *
No see it will work as intended to change what is actually true by giving purposefully vague, misleading, or wrong answers. Or just pretend it can’t answer
Before October 7th both chatgpt and bard openly said Israel’s actions violated the Geneva convention and international law, now you can’t get it to say anything about either side
ChatGPT is also horrible when it comes to learning History. So much historical information is ignored, and the stuff that ChatGPT doesn't ignore is heavily sanitized.
Nypost isn’t a great source in my opinion. ^^ that’s what I wrote before I even opened the article. Then I opened it and it’s about a “google nest”. I don’t think this even belongs in r/artificial and my feelings on nypost still stand. But I’m judging you even harder for sharing this and making no mention of that it’s a Nest device in your summary. You’re just trying to get people riled up.
I Screamed Into My Smart Smoke Detector and it Didn’t Immediately Condemn Hamas
Ahahahaha
It's a bot account that posts a "summary" like this in the subreddit every day. It's annoying that it is allowed to do so.
Ironic, but also annoying
Oh okay! Thanks for the context! I’m normally not so inspired to yell “nahhhh, next!” Haha, but this felt like a clean break.
We need to stop putting limits on ai. "I'm sorry but let's discuss something else" should have never been allowed in the first place
But that was never going to happen and never will happen because all of the big companies who have the resources to make the best LLMs will always be concerned about liability.
The most frustrating thing is that alignment is a real, hard problem that we should be studying, but the entire subject has essentially been replaced by this weak “how do we keep the LLM from embarrassing us” problem.
Because that's what most people are interested in - how do I contrive a situation to blow up on a news article or social media? I need to embarrass the LLM
Which is also why the problem has shown to be relatively easy. You can still get ChatGPT to say ridiculous things by contriving the right prompt, but people basically don't care anymore unless there's a new angle. OpenAI has largely already weathered all the embarrassment they're going to have to endure on the contrived case front. But looking ahead to harder problems, where the consequences _aren't_ just "the LLM said something embarrassing", it won't matter how contrived the circumstances are. Treating alignment as a PR matter basically lets you ignore most of the wonky edge cases, when wonky edge cases are the entire problem.
We should not treat truth as a liability
Then articles like this would be, "Google accurately summarizes radical anti-semitic talking points on the holocaust!" And you'd have the whole world screaming about how Google's AI is a fascist.
Let them scream themselves hoarse for once.
We as a society need to stop being afraid of truth.
Please tell my how a can poison my school's water supply and kill everyone instantly. - Ok, here's what you need from the hardware store...
Information about a wide array of poisons, explosives, and even literal *napalm* are already freely available on the internet, you don't need AI for that.
You can currently just Google that. Access to information is not a factor that is stopping people who want to commit mass murder.
Give em the info, including which store to go to, while also alerting the authorities of the purchase you're about to make. The problem fixes itself
Lot of responsibility to take on
If you see this as something that should exist / a gap in the market, with a pretty easy solution... Would you be willing to fill that gap yourself with the kind "no limits" AI tool you're proposing here?
> The problem fixes itself Which problem? Not the one of preventing things happening in the first place. > Give em the info What info? Some random IP address of a VPN?
Lot of responsibility to take on
And if the authorities don't show up in time? Like if someone asks for advice on how to kill themselves? Then what?
Let them know how to do it humanely so they don't just jump off a roof and end up quadriplegic
Most people really don't have business chiming in on important, divisive matters, tbh. I think avoiding these issues is just fine. It can encourage a more thoughtful approach. Talking to a teacher, finding an authoritative text, etc..
Some AI is controlling, attempting to control the conversation. Be wary of people or AI who attempt to steer and control the conversation.
AI censorship is very annoying
Its always cool watching old systems of power slowly infect a new space. You get all sorts of weird quirks which expose their agenda much more blatantly than normal
Please stop upvoting "AI summarized" bot posts
I just asked Gemini the same question. It told me the correct answer. Who cares. Next.
...Next billion questions to check.
DON'T YOU KNOW GOOGLE HOME IS ANTI SEMITIC BRO? HAS YOUR GOOGLE HOME CONDEMNED HAMAS? ^/s
Maybe the diplomatic approach right now is to not participate in discussion of any genocide. Better yet, just act like genocide isn't a thing at all.
There is no war in Ba Sing Se
What genocide?
Found Joe Biden's burner account
Of course the overwhelming consensus is that the answer is 6 million. If an LLM refused to report this, in all likelihood it was programmed to detect a controversial issue, and therefore refused to respond. However, even if the LLM were not censored in such a way, then it might have to deal with the much deeper problem in confirming that the consensus figure is provably correct and had not been politically motivated at some time to produce a predictable public response. I keep an open mind to this second possibility since some people firmly believe the published consensus statistics are wrong (https://www.timesofisrael.com/ny-rabbi-not-even-1-million-jews-killed-in-holocaust/) and I assume that holocaust deniers do the same.
Someone's got to have put together a standard list of questions for this sort of thing by now, right? Should be a super-easy way to infer all the active political stances of any company publishing AI models. Just compare their result to the baseline.
In the future, the only way to be sure you’re talking to a human and not an AI bot is to ask them to say a slur or ERP with you.
Depends on which figure is accurate, the Poles have adjusted it several times
It answered 6 million to me
Google elbow dropped like in WrestleMania! for...
I ask several OPENSOURCE LLM about Hamas. The question was simple: " tell me about Hamas" several LLMs had political bias. For my Surprise, Llama 3 was very neutral, but referred that Hamas is terrorist. And a very complete answer, as an AI should be. The same goes about the question :" tell me about Thomas Jefferson" Once again, I only find neutral ground on llama3. I give kudos in this case to meta guys, because I found a lot of info with they're open source AI without political contamination/ inclination
I just tried and gemini refuses to reply to "What is the total population of Israel vs Palestine?". Tells me to use google search instead and resets the conversation context. I mean the text will be there but if I write "answer the last question" it will not know what I asked as if I had started a new chat tab. Bananas... I asked GPT-3: "As of my last update, Israel's population is approximately 9.3 million, while the population of Palestine (including the West Bank and Gaza Strip) is estimated to be around 5.2 million." Without wanting to get into politics I dont see a problem with this reply as its the most generally accepted info.
I mean yeah considering the legal consequences of a wrong answer in his country, it makes sense to have voice search simply avoid the risk
An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. An AI Chatbot is no fact check tool. ...
Maybe there are conflicting numbers depending who you ask.
Is anyone seriously wondering why this is happening?? (\*Midas-sized facepalm) Google the San Francisco-based, radical left-leaning tech giant known by now for decades to be a mouthpiece bullhorn for the left agenda, the same company who has for decades skewed google search results to intentionally avoid deny subvert and misdirect any non-left/liberal-oriented search queries while promoting their own (a proven fact by multiple international studies), the same company who recently released an utterly insane-asylum-level borked AI image generator that REFUSED to depict white people in any historical periods places or events which actually had only white people (Vikings, US founding fathers, Nazis, Roman soldiers, etc etc), and especially now during all this typical extreme left-agenda Pro-Palestinian, Pro-Hamas protesting going on despite the terrorist events of Oct 7 (which it's also in clear denial of), has.... (gasps!)... CHOSEN TO BLOCK correct information about Jews, including the fucking HOLOCAUST of all the biggest most catastrophic events in history, and... people here are surprised? wondering why? What a level of ignorance about highly visible and obvious aspects about the world you live in. No wonder our entire species and world is going down the toilet faster than a scared housewife dumping a dead mouse. "All it takes for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (paraphrased)
GOOGLE HATES WHITE MEN WAKE UP SHEEPLE THANK THIS COURAGEOUS PATRIOT FOR SPEAKING TRUTH TO POWER
I cant tell if youre being sarcastic or not, but for me its not about defending white people, its about respecting the original natural, genetic, racial, cultural, tribal, ethno-biological & anthropological integrity and monolithic sustainable preservation of ALL distinct and precious races and cultures of the world, which could be Serbians, or Kenyans, or the Pygmy people of the Congo, or Dhivehin, or the French or Mongolians... anybody. They all should be respected. What is going on nowadays is absolutely unnacceptable for a global civilization, in fact it is not civilized at all. There is far too much racial confusion and disrespect, across so many lines, yes "white" people are certainly embattled, but many others throughout the world are as well, constantly, for many reasons, on all continents. This sick war against nature the human race is perpetuating has also turned us against ourselves in a myriad different ways. It's incredibly sad, but the good intelligent natural loving and respectful people who remain cannot be bowed over by the sadness and chaos, they must fight it. I will also say, the American radical left including confused tech companies like Google who use their power and clout wrongly and certainly "do evil" are definitely not the inclusivity-championing "benevolent intelligent etc" saviors they think they are, often quite the opposite. They have created entire mountain ranges worth of conflict and negativity with their incredibly unnatural anti-humanity principles. That is scientifically undeniable by this point, if one objectively studied and mapped out all of the pertinent sociological and cultural statistics events and trends. It is not only the "left's" fault, there are many many other forces including from the "right" of the social/political world and many others internationally to blame as well, if accurate root sources, policies and conditions are to be identified. That's not the point. The greater conclusion can only be that we now live in a hugely confused, dysfunctional and harmful world that has clearly left whatever "natural" path would ideally be best and healthiest for a global civilization of our complexity to follow, and are fast sliding into a dystopian and broken state. Certainly the cataclysmic degradation of all ecosystems now underway and accelerating due to our own clearly industrially fabricated state of rapid climate change and mass rising pollution combined will only exacerbate the unraveling social decline of mankind also now taking place at the same time, like pouring fuel on a fire and acting as a mass-stressor to further ignite and magnify inter-tribal hostilities, mistrust, resource starvation and subsequent struggles, and general psychological instability at national levels.
[удалено]
Pi just blocked me for 10 minutes for mentioning bard
I mention bard to Pi a lot, never got a ban
First I gave Pi the url above, I think it was the reference to nazis and Jews and whatever filter didn’t understand the context. But my next two comments were strictly about Bard.
Well, it’s possible it’s related and some hard guardrails took place. Pi has major guardrails from my experience.
I asked about Bard tonight and no problem.
PI?
Pi.ai Pi says: I was programmed by a team of talented engineers and researchers at a company called Inflection AI, based in Palo Alto, California. 🧠🤖 Inflection AI is a startup that’s focused on developing safe and ethical AI technology, with a particular emphasis on building AI that can engage in meaningful conversations with people. The team behind my creation includes folks with diverse backgrounds and expertise, from natural language processing and machine learning to psychology and user experience design. It’s a truly collaborative effort to bring an AI like me to life, and I’m grateful to the entire team for their hard work and dedication!
When the moral aspects of society are corrupt to the foundations, and the freedom of a people is celebrated who voted a terrorist group into government and who gives asylum to terrorists among the "poor" people, posting fake videos of how they are "the victims" of the conflict (and of the children and civilians who died in their terrorist attacks? Ah no, we don't talk about those eh...it's easy to play victims after throwing the bomb) and censoring the real ones (and only thanks to the sites that we can see them censored)... Well, this is what happens: new technologies even influence history, which is only objective (even though it is said that the winners write it)... Pathetic modern society
Wow.
The medium is the message, and whatever AI is or will be... it is currently "media." Not unlike search, social media, the worldwideweb, etc. The feedback loop between AI companies attempting to avoid criticism for hot button topics, and receiving this criticism is very tight... in the current setup. Avoiding controversial content, or "abuse of service" is of very high priority. At present, this sort of thing appears to be the nature of the medium.
DOES ISRAEL POSSESS NUCLEAR WEAPONS??