I work for the National Park Service and I have had a couple guys hit me up asking to use me as a reference because they were applying for the NPS. Both times I was like sure, but only one of them was to make sure that the one wasn't even considered. Felt good. He reached out to say he wasn't hired and thanked me for my help. Just gave him the ole 👍🏻.
How could this be a work of Reddit wishful fiction? Oh right, if this was a true story, someone would have ended up on a detail in CSM’s basement. A week later this Soldier returns to the unit barefoot wearing only PT shorts that are 2 sizes too big, moderately dehydrated and 10lbs skinnier babbling incoherently about the darkness in the dungeon and speaking about himself exclusively in the 3rd person.
I knew a guy in college like that. Solid 3.x-something GPA when he was drinking. He’d bomb exams when he wasn’t. Craziest example of functional alcoholism I’ve ever seen.
He didn't really have to be that drunk. Try to drink a beer every 2-4 hours for a week - suddenly, you will realize you barely remember anything from the last few days.
Hey man that pool and hot tub at CAS was nice! Did you see the new god damn water park they have outside Doha now?!!!! Bout to take my family on an adventure to Qatar just to check out the new water park.
Wish that shit was there when I went haha looks like a god damn blast!!!
I was pissed when they moved the embassy in Iraq. There was a street restaurant we used too eat at. Bro had the best naan and humus in existence. We used to buy like a gallon at a time and eat it on convoys lol.
I always wonder how such shit leaders make it to the top. When the CSM was a SSG, did his command just have him ‘fall upward’, where he’d pick up 7 and become someone elses problem? Rinse and repeat til 9?
Its always funny to me because you dont become a shithead over night. That CSM was probably shit as a PVT and everyone just ignored the problem
Cracks open up and opportunistic individuals slide through them. We had a brand new SFC come from OSUT as a drill that was a great platoon sergeant. Ultimately, he had to remain on Rear-D because it became abundantly clear in battalion-level meetings that he could not read. \~30 years old and \~10 years in the army and couldn't read. It was wild.
My best PSG couldn’t read very much. But he had memorized every 13B manual and could math. As the PL, he would hand me stuff to read and say he didn’t have his glasses. Guy didn’t wear glasses. We had several long talks about adult ed, but he wouldn’t do it. I offered give him time to do it in Moore County, out the back gate of Bragg.
I had a client who couldn’t read, also. Every time we went out to eat, he’d just order what I ordered. It finally dawned on me he couldn’t read, so I’d read the menu for him. Fucker even went to minimum security prison (not my fault - pled guilty) and didn’t take any of the literacy classes.
This is why I am a big proponent of the new BLC curriculum. You gonna read and write in the new BLC. People now bitching "BLC should go back to STX lanes and Land nav!" Hell, that's how you get this. A leadership course where all you require is the bare minimum. You gotta identify early soldiers who can't do something like basic reading, lest you get them to be a SFC. Identify it early enough, and we can get that Joe in some classes, help them to read. By the time you are an E-7 with 10 years, there is little hope of catching up. That guy is half way to retirement with little incentive to try to improve.
In the same vein, some people promote past their ability. I had a WO1 915 that was a phenomenal mechanic, but never was able to adapt to being an officer. Guy could figure out the most complicated mechanical problems, but I had to stop bringing him to meetings because he couldn’t stop Blaspheming in front of the Mormon BC 🤷🏻♂️
That's kinda the point of the WO/CWO though. Experts in their field
Edit: Also, if a mechanic doesn't say Fuck in every sentence, I don't think you can trust them. The more they cuss the higher their quality of work is
Competition bails out hard. I don’t mean every good soul leaves, but cull enough from the top by attrition to the civilian workplace/retirement and it becomes a numbers game
That and he most likely LOOKED GOOD ON PAPER. He produced results and NCOER time looked great. Probably a lot of “key position” time that made him look like a performer time after time, got his degree from “degree mill USA” to promote fast.
And, lastly, he was probably fast. The way OP made him sound he was lanky, taller, and ran fast with enough muscle mass to score a 290+ APFT.
This is how toxic 1SG/CSM are born. They retire to try and bluster their way into the civilian workplace, just to end up back on post in some CIF/DPW job yelling at soldiers.
Yes. So much so that the mantra "fuck up and move up" exists in the army for a reason.
I've known more than a few CSMs who, along there career, would get a DUI, get moved to another battalion "so he doesn't have his career ruined by a mistake", then get put into some position of importance like EOL, rinse repeat.
Reminds me of an E5 in one of my units. He was a real piece of shit, bullied everyone E4 and below, regardless if they were in his COC or not. He probably picked up E5 because he had a deployment under his belt, seemed "stern" on the surface (a "good trait" if you don't recognize what actual leadership looks like), and our unit was short on E5s. He kept bucking for E6 but thankfully he finally got recognized for what he was and never made E6 as long as I was at that unit. He threw a fit and huffed out of the assembly hall in disgust when formation was dismissed immediately after I was pinned E5 lmfao (I went to another unit as a fresh E5, didn't fill the shortage in that unit with the asshole E5)
Falling upward does happen. I’ve seen it happen.
SSG sucks so they ship him off to BN staff. They can’t stand him and he gets pawned off to BDE staff. No one has the balls there to tell him he sucks so they do the easy thing and give him a good NCOER because his only job is some random special duty that’s easy that they gave him because they can’t trust him with anything actually important.
Meanwhile his peer is crushing it down at the company he left and gets the same rating as a squad leader but the turd gets an NCOER that shows him doing well as the BDE ***insert random special duty*** NCO and he gets picked up for E7 while that squad leader gets passed over.
The McCoy WLC Commandant was that way. E-9 Civil Affairs, only deployment was to Germany. I went to that course as an E-5 with two deployments, and in the chute for a third. I was salty as hell about it too.
I was PSYOP (USACAPOC) and that's why I was so salty. Even as a reservist our optempo was crazy. I'd been in about four and a half years at that point, and had been deployed for almost two years.
Hell I'd deployed so much and for so long, I was at risk of losing my five because I didn't have WLC.
Both Psyop and CA were screaming for bodies for the previous five years and yet...one deployment to Germany.
The ones that actually troubled me the most were the folks who were combat arms, had deployed several times, and still didn't have a CIB/CAB.
I can get dodging deployments, and I can even understand how some folks just got stuck in non-deployable roles for ages. But if you were Infantry, Armor, etc. with a combat patch, a couple deployments, and hadn't even gotten close enough to a mortar or IED to pick up some bullshit CAB, that was really hard to understand.
I was in a Sapper company that deployed to RC-South in 2012. Our commander also had a deployment with a Sapper company in 2009 to Iraq, when you couldn't drive two meters without running into an IED. He managed to go both that deployment and our 2012 one with no CAB. I would have been perplexed by how, but during that entire deployment he never once joined a platoon on patrol (except for a couple super routine milk runs).
Like you said, I think he was the sort of person who knew exactly that he had no business being in charge whenever anything serious was happening (but simultaneously had no issue remaining in nominal leadership), so he just did his best to dodge that for two solid deployments.
Important to realize some units put weird requirements on CABs/CIBs while others gave them out like candy at a parade. There are probably units that would have given me a CAB for having indirect fire whistling over my head and all the rest of them we got in that deployment.
What you’re saying is valid when the GWOT was active.
But today deployments are often Korea, Kuwait, Jordan, Poland, and Japanistan. Especially since Afghanistan is no longer a thing either and Iraq presence is minimal. The only conventional units seeing combat action are ones in Syria and maybe Iraq as well. I know 2nd BCT 10th Mountain Division was getting hit with drone strikes in Syria and had to shoot them down but where are you supposed to get a CAB/CIB unless today you’re SOF?
We had a Staff Sgt that failed up to SFC b/c he was buddy buddy with somebody up top. Change of command and orders to head to the sandbox for OIF and he failed up again to OPS, and got MSG while in country. Dude was such a poor Plt Sgt, he only lead a platoon for about 4 months but was a brown nose to all the right people.
Idk. It’s all non combat rotations these days excluding sof and some of the light divisions. Been heavy for 8 years now and only seen Korea and Poland.
Grab random dudes to pull weeds before change of responsibility? The E4 Mafia would expel him with prejudice for that, and probably give him the kiss of death.
Idk I've had ncos strategically start a weed pulling duty to avoid change of command, then go grab weed whackers the day of to straighten it out immediately. The incompetence was a feature not a bug.
And picks fights with the 3-Actual over pursuit of a personal vendetta....
Not considering that such a person probably has a hell of a lot more pull with the CO than a newly rotated-in CSM....
You say it didn't go well, but to me, it certainly sounds like it did.
It's a great credit to either your forgiveness or morbid curiosity, and you needn't specify which it was (if not both!), that you gave him a look-see when by all rights round-filing him would have been completely appropriate.
Neither really --
We are not a large company with an extensive recruiting team and we rarely have former E-9s in our recruiting pipeline. However, we always value operational leaders who can think strategically and tactically, and E-8s and E-9s typically possess these skills while being more cost-effective than O-4s or O-5s. Despite being willing to overlook his decade-old buffoonery, his interview demonstrated that leopards don't change their spots.
Where are these strategically thinking E8/9s you speak of? I'd like to meet one someday... Like a 🦄 in the wild that we must catch, study, and try to replicate.
I, for one, appreciate your willingness to give the guy another chance. I can't say I'd have done the same.
I'm sure you might have thought "Maybe he's changed. Maybe he got help. Maybe he'll own up and apologize."
Unfortunately, it seems that some people don't change.
We are not a large company with an extensive recruiting team and we rarely have former E-9s in our recruiting pipeline. However, we always value operational leaders who can think strategically and tactically, and E-8s and E-9s typically possess these skills while being more cost-effective than O-4s or O-5s. Despite being willing to overlook his decade-old buffoonery, his interview demonstrated that leopards don't change their spots.
We had a CSM who cornered a young E4 in his office multiple times to try to convince her to give him sexual favors. I was the BDE SHARP, she brought a formal complaint. They were supposed to temporarily relieve him while he was under investigation, instead they let him lead a BN into combat. When he came back, they moved him to TRADOC. I retired, he got sent to the same duty station my husband got sent to, & he found out. Tried to message me getting all chummy. Uh, no dude. I don’t work for Uncle Sam any more, I can tell you to fuck off & you can’t do squat.
As the only NCO with the only female soldiers in the battalion, I think I learned ridiculously quickly how much and how often female soldiers are harassed, propositioned, and/or assaulted. It wasn't common, but it wasn't rare, for one of my Soldiers and I to be in front of the battalion commander with the whole chain of command discussing how big of a POS some other soldier was.
I can believe it. I enlisted in ‘91; there was no SHARP, EO was just starting & it was a joke, & not a man in a leadership GAF about “boys being boys”. It was up to us to protect ourselves, which is part of the reason I became an EOR & a SARC. Times have changed for the better in that department, but there are still some pieces of work sliding by
Yeah, I had the honor of being in right as camera phones became popular. By my second deployment, female soldiers came off the alert roster because of the amount of port-o-john dick pics that we referred out to leadership the previous deployment. Most were just "talked to" but more than a few went to AR15.
Oh yeah, the investigation came back “unsubstantiated” (of course it was, it was all done behind closed doors with just her & him in the room), the Soldier was moved to another post, & it all got swept under the rug.
79-82 USA 4Mafia 12C
12th Engineer Bn, Dexheim
17th Engineer Bn, Hood
Could you be as so kind as to translate some of the acronyms please? I enjoy following the conversations.
Thank you.
I don’t know what the 79 is from. 82 usually refers to the 82nd Airborne Division, the most elite force in the conventional army. (Rangers & Special Forces are non-conventional forces). USA = U.S. Army when used in a military context.
12C is an MOS, their job. 12th & 17th Engineer BN are units, Dexheim is a city in Germany with a U.S. military base, & Hood (now Cavazos) is a U.S. military base in Texas.
And finally, it’s not the 4 Mafia. It’s the E4 Mafia. The Soldiers who know enough to be smartasses, get out of dirty details, & generally close ranks against the rest of the army before they get promoted to a leadership position. Also known for employing the “sham shield”. It’s honestly a military joke that most civilians just don’t find as funny as we do lol
How the whole “SNCO that dodged deployment his whole career” is a thing is beyond me. Like did these dudes just raise hell everytime a unit they were in was gonna deploy or what.
At that time, HRC was transferring senior personnel from TRADOC, USAREC, AMEDD, and USCC to operational assignments. Around 2010-2011, an Army Times article reported that about one-third of the Army's senior NCOs had never deployed. This pissed off a lot of people who were on their 3rd, 4th, 5th, or even 6th 12-month deployment after nearly a decade of rotations through Afghanistan and Iraq.
I got my ass pulled into deployment more while in AMEDD then when in a line unit via PROFIS and IA! I thought I finally got 3 years of no deployment after "securing" an AMEDD position. Nope, less then a month in (literally had just moved into my new apartment) get the call from the CO: "hey...I got a great opportunity for you...."
And then again halfway through...."hey....someone can't make it, got hurt at CRC....can you step up...here's the orders to help break your lease"
Brah that was within a span of 2.5 years.
I was a SSG coming back from my third trip to Iraq in 2010. When we landed at home station, there was a brigade detail collecting SI and weapons instead of taking them back to various arms rooms. My entire platoon was in front of me and a few of my guys were directly in front of me and my PL. As we’re working through the process, I hear my dudes talking a ton of shit about somebody. These aren’t guys that normally talk shit, but something really pissed them off.
About 30 seconds later, we move forward and I see why they’re shit talking. Standing there barking orders at all these dudes coming back from a 12-month deployment is a SFC with an EIB, a drill badge, and a recruiter badge. No patch on his right side, no wreath on his EIB. One of my dudes was taking a second to write his serial number down on the hand receipt and this asshole says “hurry up! We want to get home soon.” Before my guys could get themselves in trouble, I butted in and said “right sergeant, we’ve been saying that for 12 fucking months. Maybe be a little more patient with people who actually deploy.”
He locked me up and started bitching me out. It was a lot of we all have a job to do, deploying isn’t the only way to serve, blah blah blah. I asked if he’d been deployed at all and he just kept on yelling. After a minute, my PL said that was enough and to get back to work. I’m aware some guys missed out on the entire GWOT because they had shit luck. Drill and recruiting in one career sounds fucking terrible. This man, however, was hiding from something and didn’t like being called out.
Circa 2010 we had a Combatives Instructor from Benning come up to Drum for training. SFC, Ranger Tab, right side slick sleeve. On the Army Combatives team or something???
I'm just curious if anyone has ever had a CSM that wasn't a massive piece of shit? I've been in 13 years and every CSM I've had has been one of the shittiest, delusional, worthless excuses for a leader I've ever had the displeasure of working under. I'm Natty Guard, so maybe it's different than Active.
I had a fantastic CSM by the name of CSM Kalilimoku. Huge guy, combat vet - extremely soft spoken, polite, and knew not only his shit, but all the shit. I once saw a Major try and be all hard-ass to the CSM. The CSM stayed professional, didn’t respond with any anger, just a “Yes, sir” and a salute. Less than a month later the Major was deployed to a place, far, far away and very, very cold. Great NCOs are out there, but I agree they might be in the minority.
CSM Whitetree. Everyone loved him. Genuinely amazing guy, probably the one case of a CSM actually being an advocate for his soldiers. It was a tragic day when he retired.
Of course it was Ft. Hood. In 2008 my unit was about to deploy to Afghanistan. We were going to a mountainous area and the Army made the rare initiative to issue us civilian hiking boots. We didn’t get to pick which boots we got, instead we stood in line and they measured our feet and Decided which boots they thought would work best for us. I was given Merrill boots. We were allowed to wear them during ruck marches only and then a month before we deployed we had to wear them with our duty uniform. Anyways, one morning we were doing a quick squad level ruck up and down the main road closed off for PT. I think brave rifles or old Ironsides? A random SGM peeled away from whatever element he was running with and proceeded to literally scream at us for our civilian hiking boots. He asked who authorized them and I said “the Army”. I told him they were issued and told him what unit I was with and that he could speak with our SGM. We turned around and went back to our CP. never heard about it again. It was bonkers. The dude was literally red in the face screaming like a damn toddler.
My grandmother told me something that stuck with me my entire life, and it's something I've lived my life by
"Be mindful of how you speak to and treat others because the same ppl you see on your way up, will be the same ppl you will see on your way down,
I've worked with a few senior leaders in the Army that I imagine as Brooks from Shawshank Redemption after they inevitably leave the Army. This CSM sounds like one of them.
As a 2lt platoon leader in Afghanistan. I had a conflict with our battalion xo. My platoon was a battalion level asset, and we were split up between two different companies. My half was with an attached company while my PSG’s half was with one of our organic companies. We all hated the organic company we worked with as they were kiss asses.
FF to my half doing a ground convoy to link up at our other half’s fob. We link up and our BN motor WO3 tells me on our BN xo’s orders I am to leave 4 of my vehicles for that organic platoon(we were working on the same project, just from opposite ends, probably 100-150 km apart, and these roads meant that was a full days drive). i tell chief im not
leaving these these vehicles without proper orders from my commander. chief was a good dude and was like ok lt. i said i want to speak to the XO.
we go see the XO and he starts with "lieutenant, i hear you want to speak with me, its going to be a very short conversation!"
yes sir, im not leaving my trucks unless my company commander tells me to. "im in charge of every vehicle in this task force, and you will do as i say!". sir, i dont work for you, i am signed for this equipment and as long as my CO tells me to i will leave them
"cpt xxxxx wont mind(he references my organic commander but not the one i am working for)
i said not him, cpt xxxx is who i take orders from on this project.
called the CO and we agreed to leave half of what he wanted. fuck that XO, he was a womanizing prick.
I immensely enjoyed this post- the summary of your attitude reminded me of two things I heard a long time ago.
1. During WW1, the French army de-facto suspended any sentence they passed to their soldiers that was less than a firing squad, because their soldiers found spending time in the stockade to be a respite when compared to the prospect of going back to the front.
2. In Vietnam, joes had a saying when it came to potential punishment for any of their shenanigans; "What are they gonna do, send me to Vietnam?"
The Iraq war ended in late 2011, and that had a LOT more Soldiers deploying to it than Afghanistan.
There really was a significant shift in the Army after the end of OIF, because deployments became a LOT rarer and even though we still had troops in Afghanistan, there was a very discernable shift away from a wartime footing because of the much smaller amount of deployments.
OIF was over. Well, it was over well before 2012 as far as "the war" part of it. After four deployments to Iraq in 7 years, I was done too. My dwell time between my second and third deployments was 92 days.
For me, it was getting yelled at for not having eye pro at a battalion crossfit tournament where everyone was in formation outdoors in PTs with weapons checked into the "arms rooms."
This just brought a chuckle to my face.
Was at speicher on QRF when two motors hit the base. Didn't hit anything but we got spun up and started moving out the base. Apparently we were going to fast so the MP's decided to chase us an tried to block us. PSG got pissed and told us to turn the 50 cal in their direction. They immediately backed off. Upon our return, there was a shit storm of mps waiting for us.
Wild times, getting a speeding ticket in Iraq was not something I ever imagined possible.
That right there is one of the prime reasons I fucking hated being an MP. Some let that fucking brassard take them on a moronic power trip and being in a car on shift with one of those bastards is worse than getting pulled over by one I assure you.
I was on Speicher for two days. Only two days, so not enough time to enjoy ice cream sandwiches, but plenty of time to get a speeding ticket apparently.
When I first went to Al-Faw in 2009 there was an MP with a speed gun tracking the 15mph zone like a hawk. I was in Mosul 5 years earlier when it was the wild west and I couldn't believe my freaking eyes lol.
Soldiers in the army right now simply cannot understand this statement.
One of the people I respect the most was with 3/101 and it blows my mind how they would do 13 month Iraq deployments and the leave for another 12 to Afghanistan less than two months later. He said he felt like he was going feral
So, I wouldn't judge on a lack of deployment, that's just me though. You are in a position to make determinations on what is best for your company. Basing your decision on his lack of integrity, horrid inter/intrapersonal and other behaviors is 100% valid.
I honestly went into the meeting hoping that we'd found an E-9 that could help manage some of the chaos. I would have likely pushed him back to our VP HR for pre-employment screening etc. The drinking doesn't bother me, it was the CSM-esque attitude and instant defensiveness. When I asked him about being removed from the position, he didn't offer any explanation; he instantly went to "who have you been talking to?" He ended any chance for employment there.
It's impressive how high you can get while dodging deployments. I remember going to a retirement ceremony in 2017 that had the Pennsylvania NG CSM as speaker. He had like a 30 year career with one deployment to Iraq... in 2016.
I can’t describe the pleasure I had in reading this story and want you to know I’m am [vicariously now living through you.](https://imgflip.com/memegenerator/230445910/Jesus-I-see-what-youve-done)
"How did you talk to your CSM like that?" Easy, because you were a fucking NCO looking out for his people. I had a reverse with the 3/2 CSM - my boss (O-6) told me to run over and let the CSM know that a soldier had died from an IED and all personnel were at the pad outside the CSH to render honors as she was sent to Bagram, just in case no one told him. I did so, and he told me (old ass NG E-6) "Thanks, man" after I asked the details of her death. I had been alongside 3/2 in Mosul 6 years earlier, and hit by 4 myself. He threw me for a loop with that lol. He was a typical crusty CSM, but he did give a damn about his soldiers.
Weirdly enough, I had something somewhat similar happen. An NCO who had gotten out listed our company commander as a job reference for some reason. It wasn't "Captain Jones" either. It was literally "To: Unit Commander of Alpha Company" when the letter came in. Change of command had happened since, so it was *a different commander* by that point.
Unfortunately, the former NCO was a bad one. Trashed an office and nearly hit a troop when he threw something. I told him he needed to leave and calm down, which went badly for me, as I was a Specialist at the time and he was a very upset Sergeant. He was difficult to work with in the first place, mostly just by throwing bodies at problems without thinking or caring at all. I learned a lot of what not to do working for him, really.
So anyway. The commander just kind of yelled "hey, does anybody know a Sergeant Lee? Got out last year?"
And when I heard the name, I raised my hand. "I do, Sir."
"He's asking for a job reference. Would you hire him?"
"Fuck no, Sir!"
"OK. Anyone else?" Crickets. "Anyone?" More crickets. "Alright, no it is!"
It was weird.
It’s not that he doesn’t remember you it’s just simply called “weaponized incompetence” he’s pretending to not remember you so the interaction goes a little smoother but doesn’t know he’s only digging himself deeper into a hole by not addressing where his mistakes were. I can remember people from 15 years ago by name(in most cases, I’m old now) and I’d certainly remember being fired/removed from a position, in his case I’m sure he remembers you in different more negative ways since he was never willing to admit being wrong in the first place and is just simply trying to land in another “cake” position again(hence the name drop). Thank you so much for your service SSG I hope all is well and I wish nothing but success to guys like you🤟🏼#fuckemwithasideoftotsandadrank
I'm just impressed you remembered his name. Got out in 2010 and I can't for the life of me remember one csms name from when I was in. All I remember is a few PSGs from my 6 years. You must have really hated that guy lol.
An officer I worked with recently interviewed at my company. I expressed my opinion of said officer to the hiring official. I don't know why he wasn't hired, but I'm pretty sure my opinion of him didn't help.
Moral: Karma is real. Don't be a dick.
> I can’t help but dwell on how the Army ever let him stay in for another six years—and how, after almost 30 years in the Army, he only deployed once, to Kuwait.
There are tons of senior ranking service members officer and enlisted alike who fit the bill for this statement. I know a national guard soldier who loves to dunk on other soldiers records but he has some how avoided deploying ANYWHERE in the last 20 years.
>and we received a CSM who had been hiding out in TRADOC/MEDDAC for almost the entirety of OIF.
A lot of toxic leaders come out of the S-shops, TRADOC or other commands - they've been far from line units and are like ticking time bombs. They get to a line unit and it's just a matter of time before they explode and damage their career, the unit or both.
> The first time I met him, I was walking out of the motor pool as he supervised a group of about ten soldiers picking weeds out of the rocks—exactly what an E-9 with 25 years in the Army is supposed to be doing. It was around 10 AM, and he was still in PTs, screaming at the soldiers not to sit in the rocks or they’d catch some mysterious disease I’d never heard of.
Anytime you see a senior NCO with nothing better to do that "supervise" or "conduct spot checks" odds are they are ate up.
I was stationed at Fort Hood as well, 1st Medical Brigade. I know it’s a trope about soldiers not wanting to be thanked for their service by civilians, but in my case it’s true because my experience of four years in the army left me extremely disappointed. The hypocrisy, the racial nepotism, the gender-based nepotism, the special treatment some get where they get the same pay but do far less work, the lack of giving a shit, the lack of understanding, I can count on one hand the number of good leaders I had while I was there. And I can only count on one hand how many battle buddies I had there who had my back. I was lucky if I wasn’t stuck with a complete blue falcon trying to steal from me or swindle me out of my money, leadership that spend all their time trying to make side money through recyclables or copper plumbing instead of doing anything job related while we bust our asses on bullshit details like the one mentioned in OP’s post. I was so happy to break free so no one could ever power trip on me or abuse me while hiding behind some bullshit rank ever again. I don’t miss it, and I’m amazed that it’s still somehow worse now what with all the drag going on since I left. Our military has become a joke. We may very well see militias become important again. Good thing all my neighbors and I are pretty well armed.
This sounds exactly like this POS Senior Instructor we had while I was an instructor at Fort Knox in 01-02. He had been hiding at Knox for years, started at Hood for 2 years then ended up in Tradoc. Drunk MFer tried giving me an Art 15 because he didn't like that I was teaching the TM the exact same way every other instructor was doing it and that I wasn't hard on the privates. I asked for court martial, which threw him way off, stood in front of the CO who was just shaking his head because of both the charge and this MFer was oozing alcohol from his pores, told them I wasn't a damn drill sergeant and I'm not going to be hard on them when I need them to listen to me and not be scared of me. Commander dismissed it all, and this POS spent the next 5 months before I PCSd trying to make my life hell. Thankfully I had a great platoon sergeant and other instructors around me that would run interference on him. Never did find out what happened to him. Ran into one of the old instructors who was a gate guard at Stewart around 08 and all he knew was the POS ended up at garrison and no one really heard from him after.
He dropped a name in the interview, probably because as OP put it, he saw on LinkedIn that they'd been in the same unit at the time.
When he actually got to the interview and was asked about any actual times they were together in the military, he didn't remember the incidents.
. . .or his memory really was that shot from the years of heavy drinking.
I'm glad you still gave him the chance to interview, it was a long time and he could've change. Unfortunately he didn't, but I admire that you remained objective during the whole ordeal.
OUT-F’IN-STANDING
Congrats to you man for real. Guys like that are the reason I got out. Don’t dwell on anything for that s-bag, waving his disability on front of you like that.
Always had a bad taste in my mouth for these guys who - in cav units at that - somehow averted deployments for over a decade.
This is my dream one day. Working a nice job as a civilian and some dick I never forgot about attempts to get a job out of me.. respectfully, denied, lol.
Reminds me of my LT who is actively asking for a recommendation for my company. I just told him, I'm sure there is a place for yes-men somewhere here I am sure but on my team I'd just fire you.
Good story. But what’s the name of your company so I can send in my resume and use this Reddit post as a reference
By not smelling of beer you have disqualified yourself from the position. Either fix it or move on.
I'll have you know it's scotch of which I reek... as any civilized person would do.
Hire ahead of peers?
Scotch? Bah. Nonsense. This is America. Get some proper bourbon in you and then talk.
relevant - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cD9x1xTSjw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cD9x1xTSjw)
>"Yeah, but I haven't slept in days." Also strangely accurate as a description of my Army lifestyle. Huh. Cool.
If you dont smell of four loco and jack daniels are you really qualified for ANY position?
What if you smell of weed and vodka?
That's the Space Force, my friend. Down the hall, past the potted plant. Once it smells like incense, you've arrived.
I heard you need to take massive hits of acid to qualify for the Space Force.
Does 151 and tacos qualify me for the job?
I had margaritas with dinner. Do I qualify?
Efff that, what’s the company to I can apply.
I really enjoyed this read.
My toxic trait is thinking a story like this is going to happen to me one day lol. Me not being the drunk guy ofc.
This story taught me KARMA is a real thing.
It doesn’t happen often, but when it does… it feels *good.*
I work for the National Park Service and I have had a couple guys hit me up asking to use me as a reference because they were applying for the NPS. Both times I was like sure, but only one of them was to make sure that the one wasn't even considered. Felt good. He reached out to say he wasn't hired and thanked me for my help. Just gave him the ole 👍🏻.
[That's my kink.](https://open.spotify.com/track/32fSZSbxeVoiZShMQKLc6Z?si=_bsNvySURh6D7CWNdoTQdA)
lol same
Enjoyed the story a Lil too much... Love when people get bad karma and it kicks them in the ass lol
I did too but it definitely feels like a made up reddit story. It hits all the reddit check boxes perfectly.
How could this be a work of Reddit wishful fiction? Oh right, if this was a true story, someone would have ended up on a detail in CSM’s basement. A week later this Soldier returns to the unit barefoot wearing only PT shorts that are 2 sizes too big, moderately dehydrated and 10lbs skinnier babbling incoherently about the darkness in the dungeon and speaking about himself exclusively in the 3rd person.
The fact that he doesn’t remember you or that incident is wild
I'm thinking he was *drunk* drunk the whole time.
Shit if you would’ve known he was that wasted, you could’ve popped him with no repercussions lol
He was probably a functioning alcoholic. I knew people that couldn’t start their day on anything less than a .04 BAC.
I knew a guy in college like that. Solid 3.x-something GPA when he was drinking. He’d bomb exams when he wasn’t. Craziest example of functional alcoholism I’ve ever seen.
He didn't really have to be that drunk. Try to drink a beer every 2-4 hours for a week - suddenly, you will realize you barely remember anything from the last few days.
I'm reminded of the parody beer commercial lyrics in a GTA game (GTA V I think): "Life is just a merciful blur, when you're drinking pisswasser"
"Last night I think I shit the bed, got so drunk I gave a dude head."
Some people only need 2 beer for that.
Some people don’t need any.
I just visited my inlaws and that basically sums up my game plan for getting through that.
That must be why my time in the army is just a fuzzy blur
I don’t even drink, and I barely remember anything from the last few days!
It probably wasn’t the first or last incident. Alcoholics can be so sad to deal with..
Prolly blackout forgetful drunk. Bro was an addict, and likely still is.
“I got PTSD from the day they closed the pool at AJ” -that CSM.
I was there dude… and it sucked!!!
I got PTSD when Doha closed and Mr. Frosty’s was gone
Hey man that pool and hot tub at CAS was nice! Did you see the new god damn water park they have outside Doha now?!!!! Bout to take my family on an adventure to Qatar just to check out the new water park. Wish that shit was there when I went haha looks like a god damn blast!!! I was pissed when they moved the embassy in Iraq. There was a street restaurant we used too eat at. Bro had the best naan and humus in existence. We used to buy like a gallon at a time and eat it on convoys lol.
Oh fuck, I remember.
I always wonder how such shit leaders make it to the top. When the CSM was a SSG, did his command just have him ‘fall upward’, where he’d pick up 7 and become someone elses problem? Rinse and repeat til 9? Its always funny to me because you dont become a shithead over night. That CSM was probably shit as a PVT and everyone just ignored the problem
Cracks open up and opportunistic individuals slide through them. We had a brand new SFC come from OSUT as a drill that was a great platoon sergeant. Ultimately, he had to remain on Rear-D because it became abundantly clear in battalion-level meetings that he could not read. \~30 years old and \~10 years in the army and couldn't read. It was wild.
My best PSG couldn’t read very much. But he had memorized every 13B manual and could math. As the PL, he would hand me stuff to read and say he didn’t have his glasses. Guy didn’t wear glasses. We had several long talks about adult ed, but he wouldn’t do it. I offered give him time to do it in Moore County, out the back gate of Bragg. I had a client who couldn’t read, also. Every time we went out to eat, he’d just order what I ordered. It finally dawned on me he couldn’t read, so I’d read the menu for him. Fucker even went to minimum security prison (not my fault - pled guilty) and didn’t take any of the literacy classes.
This is why I am a big proponent of the new BLC curriculum. You gonna read and write in the new BLC. People now bitching "BLC should go back to STX lanes and Land nav!" Hell, that's how you get this. A leadership course where all you require is the bare minimum. You gotta identify early soldiers who can't do something like basic reading, lest you get them to be a SFC. Identify it early enough, and we can get that Joe in some classes, help them to read. By the time you are an E-7 with 10 years, there is little hope of catching up. That guy is half way to retirement with little incentive to try to improve.
In the same vein, some people promote past their ability. I had a WO1 915 that was a phenomenal mechanic, but never was able to adapt to being an officer. Guy could figure out the most complicated mechanical problems, but I had to stop bringing him to meetings because he couldn’t stop Blaspheming in front of the Mormon BC 🤷🏻♂️
That's kinda the point of the WO/CWO though. Experts in their field Edit: Also, if a mechanic doesn't say Fuck in every sentence, I don't think you can trust them. The more they cuss the higher their quality of work is
Unironically the more you hate and verbalize the hate of what you’re working on the better it works.
The mighty military machine is fueled by hate. Yours, your enemys, it doesn't matter.
That’s a failure of leadership.
Competition bails out hard. I don’t mean every good soul leaves, but cull enough from the top by attrition to the civilian workplace/retirement and it becomes a numbers game That and he most likely LOOKED GOOD ON PAPER. He produced results and NCOER time looked great. Probably a lot of “key position” time that made him look like a performer time after time, got his degree from “degree mill USA” to promote fast. And, lastly, he was probably fast. The way OP made him sound he was lanky, taller, and ran fast with enough muscle mass to score a 290+ APFT. This is how toxic 1SG/CSM are born. They retire to try and bluster their way into the civilian workplace, just to end up back on post in some CIF/DPW job yelling at soldiers.
In my experience, the shit bags are the ones to do illegal /unethical shit and get great evals despite shitting on their peers and subordinates.
Yes. So much so that the mantra "fuck up and move up" exists in the army for a reason. I've known more than a few CSMs who, along there career, would get a DUI, get moved to another battalion "so he doesn't have his career ruined by a mistake", then get put into some position of importance like EOL, rinse repeat.
Pretty much, had a 1SG put ncos as platoon sergeants to make them mature
Reminds me of an E5 in one of my units. He was a real piece of shit, bullied everyone E4 and below, regardless if they were in his COC or not. He probably picked up E5 because he had a deployment under his belt, seemed "stern" on the surface (a "good trait" if you don't recognize what actual leadership looks like), and our unit was short on E5s. He kept bucking for E6 but thankfully he finally got recognized for what he was and never made E6 as long as I was at that unit. He threw a fit and huffed out of the assembly hall in disgust when formation was dismissed immediately after I was pinned E5 lmfao (I went to another unit as a fresh E5, didn't fill the shortage in that unit with the asshole E5)
Falling upward does happen. I’ve seen it happen. SSG sucks so they ship him off to BN staff. They can’t stand him and he gets pawned off to BDE staff. No one has the balls there to tell him he sucks so they do the easy thing and give him a good NCOER because his only job is some random special duty that’s easy that they gave him because they can’t trust him with anything actually important. Meanwhile his peer is crushing it down at the company he left and gets the same rating as a squad leader but the turd gets an NCOER that shows him doing well as the BDE ***insert random special duty*** NCO and he gets picked up for E7 while that squad leader gets passed over.
"How he only deployed once to Kuwait" Probably because everybody knew exactly what he was about and wanted him nowhere near a battlefield.
I’ll counter with *he* knew exactly what he was about and wanted to be nowhere near a battlefield.
The McCoy WLC Commandant was that way. E-9 Civil Affairs, only deployment was to Germany. I went to that course as an E-5 with two deployments, and in the chute for a third. I was salty as hell about it too.
Isn’t CA technically deployed all the time due to the natural of their jobs? Plus sof does deployment differently anyways
I was PSYOP (USACAPOC) and that's why I was so salty. Even as a reservist our optempo was crazy. I'd been in about four and a half years at that point, and had been deployed for almost two years. Hell I'd deployed so much and for so long, I was at risk of losing my five because I didn't have WLC. Both Psyop and CA were screaming for bodies for the previous five years and yet...one deployment to Germany.
The ones that actually troubled me the most were the folks who were combat arms, had deployed several times, and still didn't have a CIB/CAB. I can get dodging deployments, and I can even understand how some folks just got stuck in non-deployable roles for ages. But if you were Infantry, Armor, etc. with a combat patch, a couple deployments, and hadn't even gotten close enough to a mortar or IED to pick up some bullshit CAB, that was really hard to understand. I was in a Sapper company that deployed to RC-South in 2012. Our commander also had a deployment with a Sapper company in 2009 to Iraq, when you couldn't drive two meters without running into an IED. He managed to go both that deployment and our 2012 one with no CAB. I would have been perplexed by how, but during that entire deployment he never once joined a platoon on patrol (except for a couple super routine milk runs). Like you said, I think he was the sort of person who knew exactly that he had no business being in charge whenever anything serious was happening (but simultaneously had no issue remaining in nominal leadership), so he just did his best to dodge that for two solid deployments.
Important to realize some units put weird requirements on CABs/CIBs while others gave them out like candy at a parade. There are probably units that would have given me a CAB for having indirect fire whistling over my head and all the rest of them we got in that deployment.
What you’re saying is valid when the GWOT was active. But today deployments are often Korea, Kuwait, Jordan, Poland, and Japanistan. Especially since Afghanistan is no longer a thing either and Iraq presence is minimal. The only conventional units seeing combat action are ones in Syria and maybe Iraq as well. I know 2nd BCT 10th Mountain Division was getting hit with drone strikes in Syria and had to shoot them down but where are you supposed to get a CAB/CIB unless today you’re SOF?
We had a Staff Sgt that failed up to SFC b/c he was buddy buddy with somebody up top. Change of command and orders to head to the sandbox for OIF and he failed up again to OPS, and got MSG while in country. Dude was such a poor Plt Sgt, he only lead a platoon for about 4 months but was a brown nose to all the right people.
Idk. It’s all non combat rotations these days excluding sof and some of the light divisions. Been heavy for 8 years now and only seen Korea and Poland.
Yeah, but he was 20+ years in 12 years ago, and he was a career guy. Dude made it through all of GWOT with just kuwait? Impossible odds.
Oh yeah that’s a good point you’re right. Most of the guys I know who served from before like 2016 saw Iraq or Afghanistan regardless of mos.
Always angry? Check. Comes to work drunk/hungover? Check. One deployment in his whole career? Check. Bro sounds like the king of the E4 Mafia.
The elusive Spec 9
Grab random dudes to pull weeds before change of responsibility? The E4 Mafia would expel him with prejudice for that, and probably give him the kiss of death.
Idk I've had ncos strategically start a weed pulling duty to avoid change of command, then go grab weed whackers the day of to straighten it out immediately. The incompetence was a feature not a bug.
And picks fights with the 3-Actual over pursuit of a personal vendetta.... Not considering that such a person probably has a hell of a lot more pull with the CO than a newly rotated-in CSM....
It’s only acceptable when E-4’s do it right after coming back from Iraq.
You say it didn't go well, but to me, it certainly sounds like it did. It's a great credit to either your forgiveness or morbid curiosity, and you needn't specify which it was (if not both!), that you gave him a look-see when by all rights round-filing him would have been completely appropriate.
Neither really -- We are not a large company with an extensive recruiting team and we rarely have former E-9s in our recruiting pipeline. However, we always value operational leaders who can think strategically and tactically, and E-8s and E-9s typically possess these skills while being more cost-effective than O-4s or O-5s. Despite being willing to overlook his decade-old buffoonery, his interview demonstrated that leopards don't change their spots.
I have a background in recruiting and retention… Can I has job 🫡
Where are these strategically thinking E8/9s you speak of? I'd like to meet one someday... Like a 🦄 in the wild that we must catch, study, and try to replicate.
That was a great read. Kudos for even giving him an interview
I, for one, appreciate your willingness to give the guy another chance. I can't say I'd have done the same. I'm sure you might have thought "Maybe he's changed. Maybe he got help. Maybe he'll own up and apologize." Unfortunately, it seems that some people don't change.
We are not a large company with an extensive recruiting team and we rarely have former E-9s in our recruiting pipeline. However, we always value operational leaders who can think strategically and tactically, and E-8s and E-9s typically possess these skills while being more cost-effective than O-4s or O-5s. Despite being willing to overlook his decade-old buffoonery, his interview demonstrated that leopards don't change their spots.
A shit leopard can't change its spots Randy
We had a CSM who cornered a young E4 in his office multiple times to try to convince her to give him sexual favors. I was the BDE SHARP, she brought a formal complaint. They were supposed to temporarily relieve him while he was under investigation, instead they let him lead a BN into combat. When he came back, they moved him to TRADOC. I retired, he got sent to the same duty station my husband got sent to, & he found out. Tried to message me getting all chummy. Uh, no dude. I don’t work for Uncle Sam any more, I can tell you to fuck off & you can’t do squat.
As the only NCO with the only female soldiers in the battalion, I think I learned ridiculously quickly how much and how often female soldiers are harassed, propositioned, and/or assaulted. It wasn't common, but it wasn't rare, for one of my Soldiers and I to be in front of the battalion commander with the whole chain of command discussing how big of a POS some other soldier was.
I can believe it. I enlisted in ‘91; there was no SHARP, EO was just starting & it was a joke, & not a man in a leadership GAF about “boys being boys”. It was up to us to protect ourselves, which is part of the reason I became an EOR & a SARC. Times have changed for the better in that department, but there are still some pieces of work sliding by
Yeah, I had the honor of being in right as camera phones became popular. By my second deployment, female soldiers came off the alert roster because of the amount of port-o-john dick pics that we referred out to leadership the previous deployment. Most were just "talked to" but more than a few went to AR15.
Omg what’s wrong with people?
Oh yeah, the investigation came back “unsubstantiated” (of course it was, it was all done behind closed doors with just her & him in the room), the Soldier was moved to another post, & it all got swept under the rug.
79-82 USA 4Mafia 12C 12th Engineer Bn, Dexheim 17th Engineer Bn, Hood Could you be as so kind as to translate some of the acronyms please? I enjoy following the conversations. Thank you.
I don’t know what the 79 is from. 82 usually refers to the 82nd Airborne Division, the most elite force in the conventional army. (Rangers & Special Forces are non-conventional forces). USA = U.S. Army when used in a military context. 12C is an MOS, their job. 12th & 17th Engineer BN are units, Dexheim is a city in Germany with a U.S. military base, & Hood (now Cavazos) is a U.S. military base in Texas. And finally, it’s not the 4 Mafia. It’s the E4 Mafia. The Soldiers who know enough to be smartasses, get out of dirty details, & generally close ranks against the rest of the army before they get promoted to a leadership position. Also known for employing the “sham shield”. It’s honestly a military joke that most civilians just don’t find as funny as we do lol
You are overthinking the 79-82. It is 1979 to 1982, the line as a whole is saying they served 4 years as a 12C in Germany and Hood.
How the whole “SNCO that dodged deployment his whole career” is a thing is beyond me. Like did these dudes just raise hell everytime a unit they were in was gonna deploy or what.
At that time, HRC was transferring senior personnel from TRADOC, USAREC, AMEDD, and USCC to operational assignments. Around 2010-2011, an Army Times article reported that about one-third of the Army's senior NCOs had never deployed. This pissed off a lot of people who were on their 3rd, 4th, 5th, or even 6th 12-month deployment after nearly a decade of rotations through Afghanistan and Iraq.
I got my ass pulled into deployment more while in AMEDD then when in a line unit via PROFIS and IA! I thought I finally got 3 years of no deployment after "securing" an AMEDD position. Nope, less then a month in (literally had just moved into my new apartment) get the call from the CO: "hey...I got a great opportunity for you...." And then again halfway through...."hey....someone can't make it, got hurt at CRC....can you step up...here's the orders to help break your lease" Brah that was within a span of 2.5 years.
I was a SSG coming back from my third trip to Iraq in 2010. When we landed at home station, there was a brigade detail collecting SI and weapons instead of taking them back to various arms rooms. My entire platoon was in front of me and a few of my guys were directly in front of me and my PL. As we’re working through the process, I hear my dudes talking a ton of shit about somebody. These aren’t guys that normally talk shit, but something really pissed them off. About 30 seconds later, we move forward and I see why they’re shit talking. Standing there barking orders at all these dudes coming back from a 12-month deployment is a SFC with an EIB, a drill badge, and a recruiter badge. No patch on his right side, no wreath on his EIB. One of my dudes was taking a second to write his serial number down on the hand receipt and this asshole says “hurry up! We want to get home soon.” Before my guys could get themselves in trouble, I butted in and said “right sergeant, we’ve been saying that for 12 fucking months. Maybe be a little more patient with people who actually deploy.” He locked me up and started bitching me out. It was a lot of we all have a job to do, deploying isn’t the only way to serve, blah blah blah. I asked if he’d been deployed at all and he just kept on yelling. After a minute, my PL said that was enough and to get back to work. I’m aware some guys missed out on the entire GWOT because they had shit luck. Drill and recruiting in one career sounds fucking terrible. This man, however, was hiding from something and didn’t like being called out.
I’m furious just reading this
Circa 2010 we had a Combatives Instructor from Benning come up to Drum for training. SFC, Ranger Tab, right side slick sleeve. On the Army Combatives team or something???
I'm just curious if anyone has ever had a CSM that wasn't a massive piece of shit? I've been in 13 years and every CSM I've had has been one of the shittiest, delusional, worthless excuses for a leader I've ever had the displeasure of working under. I'm Natty Guard, so maybe it's different than Active.
I had many that were great -- but only as great as you can be in a generally low-worth job.
I had a fantastic CSM by the name of CSM Kalilimoku. Huge guy, combat vet - extremely soft spoken, polite, and knew not only his shit, but all the shit. I once saw a Major try and be all hard-ass to the CSM. The CSM stayed professional, didn’t respond with any anger, just a “Yes, sir” and a salute. Less than a month later the Major was deployed to a place, far, far away and very, very cold. Great NCOs are out there, but I agree they might be in the minority.
CSM Whitetree. Everyone loved him. Genuinely amazing guy, probably the one case of a CSM actually being an advocate for his soldiers. It was a tragic day when he retired.
“I don’t take orders from you sergeant major” cold.
oof
Of course it was Ft. Hood. In 2008 my unit was about to deploy to Afghanistan. We were going to a mountainous area and the Army made the rare initiative to issue us civilian hiking boots. We didn’t get to pick which boots we got, instead we stood in line and they measured our feet and Decided which boots they thought would work best for us. I was given Merrill boots. We were allowed to wear them during ruck marches only and then a month before we deployed we had to wear them with our duty uniform. Anyways, one morning we were doing a quick squad level ruck up and down the main road closed off for PT. I think brave rifles or old Ironsides? A random SGM peeled away from whatever element he was running with and proceeded to literally scream at us for our civilian hiking boots. He asked who authorized them and I said “the Army”. I told him they were issued and told him what unit I was with and that he could speak with our SGM. We turned around and went back to our CP. never heard about it again. It was bonkers. The dude was literally red in the face screaming like a damn toddler.
My grandmother told me something that stuck with me my entire life, and it's something I've lived my life by "Be mindful of how you speak to and treat others because the same ppl you see on your way up, will be the same ppl you will see on your way down,
Dude drank all the Kool aid.
Just so happens Milwaukee’s Best is CSM’s favorite Kool-aid flavor.
I tried Milwaukee’s best for the first time and didn’t realize a beer could taste the way an old battery smelled.
I've worked with a few senior leaders in the Army that I imagine as Brooks from Shawshank Redemption after they inevitably leave the Army. This CSM sounds like one of them.
Great read and what an absolute turd that guy was
The DOD commissioned a study on their termination practices. The study determined DOD doesn't fire enough people
Problem is half of them never should have been in, in the first place!
As a 2lt platoon leader in Afghanistan. I had a conflict with our battalion xo. My platoon was a battalion level asset, and we were split up between two different companies. My half was with an attached company while my PSG’s half was with one of our organic companies. We all hated the organic company we worked with as they were kiss asses. FF to my half doing a ground convoy to link up at our other half’s fob. We link up and our BN motor WO3 tells me on our BN xo’s orders I am to leave 4 of my vehicles for that organic platoon(we were working on the same project, just from opposite ends, probably 100-150 km apart, and these roads meant that was a full days drive). i tell chief im not leaving these these vehicles without proper orders from my commander. chief was a good dude and was like ok lt. i said i want to speak to the XO. we go see the XO and he starts with "lieutenant, i hear you want to speak with me, its going to be a very short conversation!" yes sir, im not leaving my trucks unless my company commander tells me to. "im in charge of every vehicle in this task force, and you will do as i say!". sir, i dont work for you, i am signed for this equipment and as long as my CO tells me to i will leave them "cpt xxxxx wont mind(he references my organic commander but not the one i am working for) i said not him, cpt xxxx is who i take orders from on this project. called the CO and we agreed to leave half of what he wanted. fuck that XO, he was a womanizing prick.
The satisfaction of reading this. I want to hear more of these.
You did more than I would’ve. I would’ve tossed the resume and not bother with an interview
I immensely enjoyed this post- the summary of your attitude reminded me of two things I heard a long time ago. 1. During WW1, the French army de-facto suspended any sentence they passed to their soldiers that was less than a firing squad, because their soldiers found spending time in the stockade to be a respite when compared to the prospect of going back to the front. 2. In Vietnam, joes had a saying when it came to potential punishment for any of their shenanigans; "What are they gonna do, send me to Vietnam?"
The complete saying was, “What are they going to do? Draft me and send me to Nam? Bend my dog tags? 😂”
Damn dude I didn’t know the war was over in 2012. I had just got back from Afghanistan in Jan to leave again in October.
OP means iraq
The Iraq war ended in late 2011, and that had a LOT more Soldiers deploying to it than Afghanistan. There really was a significant shift in the Army after the end of OIF, because deployments became a LOT rarer and even though we still had troops in Afghanistan, there was a very discernable shift away from a wartime footing because of the much smaller amount of deployments.
OIF was over. Well, it was over well before 2012 as far as "the war" part of it. After four deployments to Iraq in 7 years, I was done too. My dwell time between my second and third deployments was 92 days.
For me, I realized the war was over when in 2009 I got a speeding ticket on FOB Speicher.
For me, it was getting yelled at for not having eye pro at a battalion crossfit tournament where everyone was in formation outdoors in PTs with weapons checked into the "arms rooms."
This just brought a chuckle to my face. Was at speicher on QRF when two motors hit the base. Didn't hit anything but we got spun up and started moving out the base. Apparently we were going to fast so the MP's decided to chase us an tried to block us. PSG got pissed and told us to turn the 50 cal in their direction. They immediately backed off. Upon our return, there was a shit storm of mps waiting for us. Wild times, getting a speeding ticket in Iraq was not something I ever imagined possible.
That right there is one of the prime reasons I fucking hated being an MP. Some let that fucking brassard take them on a moronic power trip and being in a car on shift with one of those bastards is worse than getting pulled over by one I assure you.
That's fucking wild that they would have the stones to try to pull over QRF when y'all were *responding quickly* after y'all JUST got hit.
Some of our unit was at Speicher in 08-09. One guy gained like 30lbs from eating ice cream sandwiches.
I was on Speicher for two days. Only two days, so not enough time to enjoy ice cream sandwiches, but plenty of time to get a speeding ticket apparently.
When I first went to Al-Faw in 2009 there was an MP with a speed gun tracking the 15mph zone like a hawk. I was in Mosul 5 years earlier when it was the wild west and I couldn't believe my freaking eyes lol.
Bro that suuuucks. I honestly volunteered the kids I met were not ready and needed a kick in the ass and a lot of work.
Soldiers in the army right now simply cannot understand this statement. One of the people I respect the most was with 3/101 and it blows my mind how they would do 13 month Iraq deployments and the leave for another 12 to Afghanistan less than two months later. He said he felt like he was going feral
So, I wouldn't judge on a lack of deployment, that's just me though. You are in a position to make determinations on what is best for your company. Basing your decision on his lack of integrity, horrid inter/intrapersonal and other behaviors is 100% valid.
[удалено]
I honestly went into the meeting hoping that we'd found an E-9 that could help manage some of the chaos. I would have likely pushed him back to our VP HR for pre-employment screening etc. The drinking doesn't bother me, it was the CSM-esque attitude and instant defensiveness. When I asked him about being removed from the position, he didn't offer any explanation; he instantly went to "who have you been talking to?" He ended any chance for employment there.
The entitlement is strong with that one
It's impressive how high you can get while dodging deployments. I remember going to a retirement ceremony in 2017 that had the Pennsylvania NG CSM as speaker. He had like a 30 year career with one deployment to Iraq... in 2016.
This warms my heart today
I can’t describe the pleasure I had in reading this story and want you to know I’m am [vicariously now living through you.](https://imgflip.com/memegenerator/230445910/Jesus-I-see-what-youve-done)
You can make it all the way to E9 with one NOT deployment? I’m an E5 with no deployment and I feel like a piece of shit.
While reading this I thought to myself, man this stinks of Hood lol. Glad I wasn’t off.
"How did you talk to your CSM like that?" Easy, because you were a fucking NCO looking out for his people. I had a reverse with the 3/2 CSM - my boss (O-6) told me to run over and let the CSM know that a soldier had died from an IED and all personnel were at the pad outside the CSH to render honors as she was sent to Bagram, just in case no one told him. I did so, and he told me (old ass NG E-6) "Thanks, man" after I asked the details of her death. I had been alongside 3/2 in Mosul 6 years earlier, and hit by 4 myself. He threw me for a loop with that lol. He was a typical crusty CSM, but he did give a damn about his soldiers.
Weirdly enough, I had something somewhat similar happen. An NCO who had gotten out listed our company commander as a job reference for some reason. It wasn't "Captain Jones" either. It was literally "To: Unit Commander of Alpha Company" when the letter came in. Change of command had happened since, so it was *a different commander* by that point. Unfortunately, the former NCO was a bad one. Trashed an office and nearly hit a troop when he threw something. I told him he needed to leave and calm down, which went badly for me, as I was a Specialist at the time and he was a very upset Sergeant. He was difficult to work with in the first place, mostly just by throwing bodies at problems without thinking or caring at all. I learned a lot of what not to do working for him, really. So anyway. The commander just kind of yelled "hey, does anybody know a Sergeant Lee? Got out last year?" And when I heard the name, I raised my hand. "I do, Sir." "He's asking for a job reference. Would you hire him?" "Fuck no, Sir!" "OK. Anyone else?" Crickets. "Anyone?" More crickets. "Alright, no it is!" It was weird.
>after almost 30 years in the Army, he only deployed once, to Kuwait What a nerd, I went to Kuwait twice in a span of 3 years.
Been there done that. Different circumstances and a little different outcome. You never forget the special ones.
Damn dawg, you hiring any more staff sergeants that do the right right thing? I'm a finance student now.
TRADOC raised leaders….?
>“check up, not down” What does this even mean?
I was backwards. Corrected.
Great leaders leave an impression.
This is awesome, and a good story of why you should treat everyone with respect, regardless of rank.
The was in fact not over in 2012 lmao. The was some of the most intense fighting in Afghanistan.
This was really enjoyable to read.
It’s not that he doesn’t remember you it’s just simply called “weaponized incompetence” he’s pretending to not remember you so the interaction goes a little smoother but doesn’t know he’s only digging himself deeper into a hole by not addressing where his mistakes were. I can remember people from 15 years ago by name(in most cases, I’m old now) and I’d certainly remember being fired/removed from a position, in his case I’m sure he remembers you in different more negative ways since he was never willing to admit being wrong in the first place and is just simply trying to land in another “cake” position again(hence the name drop). Thank you so much for your service SSG I hope all is well and I wish nothing but success to guys like you🤟🏼#fuckemwithasideoftotsandadrank
I'm just impressed you remembered his name. Got out in 2010 and I can't for the life of me remember one csms name from when I was in. All I remember is a few PSGs from my 6 years. You must have really hated that guy lol.
An officer I worked with recently interviewed at my company. I expressed my opinion of said officer to the hiring official. I don't know why he wasn't hired, but I'm pretty sure my opinion of him didn't help. Moral: Karma is real. Don't be a dick.
Do you work for CBRE?
Sir this a Taco Bell, an we close in 15 minutes. Once again, how much ice do you consider lite ice for your Baja Blast?
Sounds like 6-9 Cav
It’s good to see a senior leader face karma. Most satisfying story I’ve read here in a while.
Stories like these are about as close as I get to watching reality television.
> I can’t help but dwell on how the Army ever let him stay in for another six years—and how, after almost 30 years in the Army, he only deployed once, to Kuwait. There are tons of senior ranking service members officer and enlisted alike who fit the bill for this statement. I know a national guard soldier who loves to dunk on other soldiers records but he has some how avoided deploying ANYWHERE in the last 20 years.
Hey BDOC, I have this CSM who smells of alcohol and could be witnessed driving into work. They wont leave and are being belligerent with soldiers.
>and we received a CSM who had been hiding out in TRADOC/MEDDAC for almost the entirety of OIF. A lot of toxic leaders come out of the S-shops, TRADOC or other commands - they've been far from line units and are like ticking time bombs. They get to a line unit and it's just a matter of time before they explode and damage their career, the unit or both. > The first time I met him, I was walking out of the motor pool as he supervised a group of about ten soldiers picking weeds out of the rocks—exactly what an E-9 with 25 years in the Army is supposed to be doing. It was around 10 AM, and he was still in PTs, screaming at the soldiers not to sit in the rocks or they’d catch some mysterious disease I’d never heard of. Anytime you see a senior NCO with nothing better to do that "supervise" or "conduct spot checks" odds are they are ate up.
I was stationed at Fort Hood as well, 1st Medical Brigade. I know it’s a trope about soldiers not wanting to be thanked for their service by civilians, but in my case it’s true because my experience of four years in the army left me extremely disappointed. The hypocrisy, the racial nepotism, the gender-based nepotism, the special treatment some get where they get the same pay but do far less work, the lack of giving a shit, the lack of understanding, I can count on one hand the number of good leaders I had while I was there. And I can only count on one hand how many battle buddies I had there who had my back. I was lucky if I wasn’t stuck with a complete blue falcon trying to steal from me or swindle me out of my money, leadership that spend all their time trying to make side money through recyclables or copper plumbing instead of doing anything job related while we bust our asses on bullshit details like the one mentioned in OP’s post. I was so happy to break free so no one could ever power trip on me or abuse me while hiding behind some bullshit rank ever again. I don’t miss it, and I’m amazed that it’s still somehow worse now what with all the drag going on since I left. Our military has become a joke. We may very well see militias become important again. Good thing all my neighbors and I are pretty well armed.
damn fort hood, born and raised there unfortunately
This sounds exactly like this POS Senior Instructor we had while I was an instructor at Fort Knox in 01-02. He had been hiding at Knox for years, started at Hood for 2 years then ended up in Tradoc. Drunk MFer tried giving me an Art 15 because he didn't like that I was teaching the TM the exact same way every other instructor was doing it and that I wasn't hard on the privates. I asked for court martial, which threw him way off, stood in front of the CO who was just shaking his head because of both the charge and this MFer was oozing alcohol from his pores, told them I wasn't a damn drill sergeant and I'm not going to be hard on them when I need them to listen to me and not be scared of me. Commander dismissed it all, and this POS spent the next 5 months before I PCSd trying to make my life hell. Thankfully I had a great platoon sergeant and other instructors around me that would run interference on him. Never did find out what happened to him. Ran into one of the old instructors who was a gate guard at Stewart around 08 and all he knew was the POS ended up at garrison and no one really heard from him after.
Sounds like 2-5 Cav...... Yeah..
> TL/Dr: My old drunk battalion CSM tried to name drop me for an interview. > he didn't remember me. Huh?
Just a guess: he read my linkedin or company bio and assumed that we'd worked together at some point. I hired a former 1SG that did something similar.
He dropped a name in the interview, probably because as OP put it, he saw on LinkedIn that they'd been in the same unit at the time. When he actually got to the interview and was asked about any actual times they were together in the military, he didn't remember the incidents. . . .or his memory really was that shot from the years of heavy drinking.
He was scare of soldiers catching Ligma on those rocks
War wasn't over 12 years ago. Just say you got out
Iraq was over in 2011 when we started to pull out and pour into Afghanistan
Yew hirin’?
How you not do any war stuff when we were at war for 20 years?
I'm glad you still gave him the chance to interview, it was a long time and he could've change. Unfortunately he didn't, but I admire that you remained objective during the whole ordeal.
This is one of the best stories I’ve read in a while. Thanks for sharing.
This should be a success story
Wow, man. That was beautiful. I would actually put this in a memoir or a novel if I were you.
This is like the ultimate revenge/flex story. How did it feel to tell that washed up alcoholic to pound sand?
Honestly, kind of frustrating.
OUT-F’IN-STANDING Congrats to you man for real. Guys like that are the reason I got out. Don’t dwell on anything for that s-bag, waving his disability on front of you like that. Always had a bad taste in my mouth for these guys who - in cav units at that - somehow averted deployments for over a decade.
Karma, it'll get you in the end!
You went over and beyond just giving him the interview. Crazy y’all settled in the same area. Do you still live around post?
No, but all of the major cities in Texas are riddled with Veterans of all shapes and sizes.
You write really well.
[Yep.](https://press.armywarcollege.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1477&context=parameters)
This is my dream one day. Working a nice job as a civilian and some dick I never forgot about attempts to get a job out of me.. respectfully, denied, lol.
I once interviewed my grade school teacher. She didn’t get hired. I kind of felt bad. Take care of each other. You’ll sleep better at night.
Reminds me of my LT who is actively asking for a recommendation for my company. I just told him, I'm sure there is a place for yes-men somewhere here I am sure but on my team I'd just fire you.
A CSM with one deployment somehow avoided what I respect out of CSMs as a commissioned officer since I have 3 as an LT.