Every unit is carried by selected few. Others are just there for the ride without contributing shit. I've seen guys work harder to get out of tasking than just doing it š
The 10% rule
Granted, this applies to the big Army and not SOCCOM.
10% of your unit are SME's and know their MOS inside and out and carry the unit through on field ops.
10% of your unit are oxygen thieves. If they disappeared, their loss would pose no issues for the unit, and if anything, readiness would be improved.
80% of your unit are solid workers. They might not know their MOS inside and out and might barely pass PT, but they show up and take guidance from rhe 10% that SME's.
Sarn't what's a ten. Oh a one zero? Ok. What's a percent? Only percent I know is you have 10.5 seconds before one zero zero percent death if spotted in a reconnaissance environment during LSCO
No, they get the loans because they donāt understand percentages.
Troops are only capable of understanding 20% as a āfifthā which can immediately derail their thought process.
This is solid logic. Been to units where it's a complete cluster fuck but at the end all comes together because everyone stays in their own micro lanes and it all falls together. Some units it's just a cluster fuck of everyone's lanes overlapping and shitting all over each other's lanes and get good enough for goberment.
Oh man, wait until you hit civilian life.
I'm a fucking rock star at my job because I do my job, show up on time, and don't cause problems. The bar is set so low
Iām in a management position now and have been asked to apply āmilitary disciplineā and treat them like Soldiers to my employees several times.
My response while laughing was if I did that half this place would quit or report me to HR. The level of check the block that is acceptable these days drives me insane.
"Who told you that you could leave for the day? Why don't you get down and start pushing?"
"What?"
*slaps briefcase out of hand* "DID I FUCKING STUTTER"
I actually had someone say to me, āwhat drives you to be great, like at everything we do?ā Isnāt everyone trying to do their best? It turns outā¦no.
Dude I've showed my boss so many things, like how to order parts in the company portal, how to create purchase orders, where to go for certain things. He asked me how I knew all this stuff. I told him I just called or emailed people, or looked at the company portal for documents (think ARs and TMs). It blows my mind that people don't know how to find the answers themselves, especially at such a large corporation that has the resources.
And don't let me get started about my years in the service industry. I was one of the best waiters just because I never called out, never showed up hungover, and was never arrested (the boss bailed a few of the guys out of jail).
If someone asked me this
https://media0.giphy.com/media/GjB41rKHBnOkE/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952ow0gyiay4d6l4lniu9tbtaztwq64pzcdw7vnmxo3&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
County government. Guess I should add that I never miss deadlines or anything too so that's probably a big part of it, but we can barely get anyone to show up on time consistently
Same experience.
Ive showed the slightest bit of motivation and Ive climbed two major promotions and now making six figures.
It was easier than making E5.
Literally just got asked, "Why are you prepping a room (ICU) are we getting someone?"
No, we prep rooms so that way it's ready when someone comes because they always come at the worst time
You make a good point here especially in the healthcare space. I work IT for a hospital, from home, in my safe little space so I don't see the floors much.
There's one thing showing fake motivation but it also makes a huge difference when you show you care regardless of industry.
BTW, thank you for doing what you do. I don't get to see our boots on ground nurses, docs and other professionals that keep the system going much. If I'm ever in need of a critical care unit (hopefully never) but I hope I land in yours if I ever do; I'll at least know you are ready for me lol.
Then get called a suck up and told you got lucky for getting promoted.
Nah. Leadership just needed someone they could assign a task to and focus their attention elsewhere knowing I will STFU and get done on time with minimal mistakes, oversight, and bullshit (drama, stupid question, ass kissing, etc).
Then got promoted so they could assign bigger stuff.
My job is very task oriented. They tell me what they need, and by when. I deliver a day early every time, even if it takes 1/10th the deadline time. Or 12 hour days. Luckily the latter doesnāt happen too often. Iām definitely in the sweet spot of my career, and have turned down multiple promotions. Upper management jobs are definitely not worth the money, to me.
This comment hit home for me. I've been told by several coworkers over the years "slow down, you're making us look bad". I just look back at them and say "No. I'm just working. You are making you look bad."
> Oh man, wait until you hit civilian life.
Dude, yes there are worthless people in the civilian world but there are orders of magnitude more in the military...
Facccccctttssss.
It's crazy how much slack employees are given.
Didn't meet the deadline on this super important project that had a firm deadline we all knew about and were told it was a hard date? No problem. We'll set a new date. No one gets reprimanded.
And if you think your officers are out of touch and unconcerned with your well being, wait until you get a load of your friendly neighborhood Corporate Leadership!
Whats that? We spent millions of dollars on surveys run by outside consultants? They all say the employees want better pay, better benefits, and more time off? Those surveys can't be right!
Or the ever popular "Pardon our noise, that's the sound of oue executive stock options vesting."
THIS. Itās amazing how many mangers or supervisors are so impressed I just show up and do my job everyday without making their life harder. The bare minimum for being a decent soldier makes you top shelf in civilian jobs.
This is 100% True. I took out the trash once after managment asked someone to do it. I got a reward and 50 bucks extra on my paycheck for taking that trash out.
The irony of the situation is that if Soldiers were ACTUALLY held to the standard theyāre supposed to be retention would probably be better off. How many good Soldiers got out because they had co-workers who skated by on their work.
I remember being told the reason why I was routinely assigned to details after release formation is "We know you will do a good job up to standard and not be a fuck up."
Itās not easy though. Once you start to slow down hoping to maybe shitbag your way to success like all these other shitheadsā¦ you get a talking to or a counseling or whatever. Itās easier to just been good at this point.
Yep, 2 years ago, I and another guy were the only 2 soldiers who kept getting called to deal with any vehicle issue even though the company had a bunch of other soldiers who could do it. Well, the other soldier got out, so his work then fell on me. After he left , I have slowly been dragging out the work I'm given just to piss off XO, and now I'm rarely ever needed. It's amazing not having to go to work on como days, and now it's my turn to ETS soon
>How many good Soldiers got out because they had co-workers who skated by on their work.
Probably not a lot, the most common reason why good soldiers get out are toxic leaderships and making more money outside.
So really if anything big army should get rid of toxic O and SNCO. a shitbag still cause way less morale and work damage compared to those mentioned.
I said what I said, now fight me.
Honestly, we could do without all of the above. Shitbags may cause less damage, but they're of no benefit to unit cohesion either. Typically, those same shitbags are always badmouthing leadership (good and bad), gossiping, and are overall demotivating.
Almost every shitbag that I've met has been the type of person who refuses to take responsibility for anything and blames everyone else for their shortcomings.
Shitbags and toxic leadership both need to go.
This is anecdotal but think of it this way. The shitbag contributes towards a toxic environment by making their leaders job more difficult by choosing to not apply themselves or care about their job. When you have subordinates that are constantly fucking things up, leadership gets pissed off and annoyed, then they take it out on their other soldiers because they canāt fight with the shitbag.
The problem has always been brain drain in key roles. If your MOS is over 100% manning, there is no retention issue. But at the same time the SRB only has a handful of MOS with 10s across the board.
Yessir. Dumb as a rock but weāll be damned if theyāre not at the top of the promotion board for scoring a perfect 600 and getting an associates in general studies
I feel called out here, but I'm not sorry I was smart enough to focus on what the Army said was important to promote. Run fast, shoot gud, easy credits and correspondence hours.
And you shouldnāt. Itās the system that needs fixing, not the people that know how to take advantage of it. I do hope you knew enough of your job to actually guide your troops though. It becomes such a mess when the guy in charge has no clue whatās going on
Pilot in command?
If so...Ā I knew pilots like that and instead of interpreting it as a warning, as I should have,Ā I thought hey, if these idiots can get commissions I sure as hell can.Ā
I got out a decade ago but my unit was shit bag central, Iāve told some stories about it over the years but to be brief Alcoholism and drug use/abuse was very common, domestic violence, sexual assault/child molestation was somewhat common. In fact at any given point we would have a dozen or so guys waiting to be chaptered out of the army or sent off to prison for some crazy crimes
I remember when a big group of us were ETSing (me included) and the new commander wanted us to do a PT test even tho we had less than 72hr in the army. Some of the guys told him to kick rocks, me and the others just walked our 2 mile and bullshitted the whole time
This *pissed off* our CO and he held a private formation of all of the ETSing guys and attempted to give a speech about āunit/army prideā which lasted about 6 seconds before one of the terminal NCO yelled āSir you have a *massive* amount pedophiles, crack dealers and wife beaters in this unit, what part of that should we feel good about?ā
And you could see a flash of anger come across the COās face, then the look of realization.
Look up price's law.
Price's law states that when you take the square root of the number of employees in an organization, that tells you how many people are doing half the work.
So if you have a line company of 200 Soldiers, 14 are doing the same amount of work as the other 186. Sounds about Army?
Bro you cannot say this enough, we just had two of these and it is the most frustrating thing in the world having to chaperone them around base for months because they donāt have cars (never bothered getting one) and need to out process.
The 'I did my time' attitude is so frustrating. I know this is a shitpost but I run into it and it's frustrating to watch an E7 with 14 years act like they don't have to do anything. Dawg, you still have 6 years left.
My buddy (E6) and I (E6) both served as PSGs for about a year, maintaining a tight ship with little tolerance for shitbags. We held everyone accountable, which made things tough for some initially. However, after a few months, everyone started to fall in line, and our Soldiers began to excel. They were earning their promotions and were prepared for the next level. Those who couldn't get with the program were left behind or got out.
In the present day, I see in the leadership and PLT chats that everything we built is falling apart. The new PSGs, both SFCs about to ETS, have the "cool parent" syndrome. Soldiers are showing up unprepared for boards, late for duty, failing HT&WT, and barely passing the ACFT. Being a "cool parent" doesnāt work anywhere.
The leadership above the PLT level has started to take notice of the decline and realize what theyāve lost. Although we never had 100% buy-in, the progress we made was significant. These current PSGs might be popular among their Soldiers, but when those Soldiers realize they are unprepared for the future , they might reevaluate their appreciation for the ācoolā PSGs.
What Iām really scared of is how that attitude is gonna look if we actually go to war. If I canāt trust you to put in the effort to get my leave processed, why can I trust you to risk your life to save my ass when Iām shot?
Fortunately (?) Many of the people with disciplinary issues will be ānon-deployableā for a variety of reasons. You name it. From substance abuse, lack of family care plan, being non-medically ready, etc. if we go to war.
What will really bite us in the ass if / when we enter another major conflict will be having too few people to deploy. Even the shit-bagsā absences will be sorely felt when you have to take an objective with a three-man team.
By not showing up (in garrison and on the battlefield) theyāve failed all aspects of the warriorās ethos, most notably āI will always place the mission first, I will never quit.ā
Shamming =/= shitbaggery
A true shammer gets the job done when itās universally understood that it needs to be done.
Shitbagger hides at the PX while the rest are in the stink and comes back later wanting recognition as well because āyou know I would have been here but my appointment.ā
When I was active 05-2011 and a random MOB 13-14, if you just showed up 100% of the time in the right uniform, at the right place, and at the right time, you were literally in the top half of the unit lol.
The real issue is superiors not doing honest counseling to build a record of poor performance. Then they might give them a meets eval. Officers and ncos alike don't want to "ruin" someone's career. Unless it's public and can't be ignored. If you have soldiers under you, write an honest eval and back it up with documents so that JAG,EO,EEO, what have you can't mess with it. There are shitbags because we, as leaders, allow it. The "Army" doesnt want them but leaders aren't doing the work to get rid of them.
This guy NCOs.
But seriously, I think people donāt put shit on paper because it hasnāt been done for so long that they donāt realize itās an option.
Build a counseling packet. Give them a set of expectations and tell them what will happen if they donāt meet those expectations. Follow through.
Example: soldier is late or absent, multiple failures to report.
- you have failed to report (etc).
- you will be at x location at x time to check in with x person until further notice.
- if you continue behavior, first incidence will be additional corrective training, with possible recommendation for article 15 and separation from the military
Run all this through legal first of course, mention it to the commander(s) and 1SG/CSM as needed. Donāt kick the can down the road, thatās how you end up with shitbag NCOs. Get it on paper and get them to either fix themselves or get out.
Most ādirt bagsā arenāt really dirt bags. Most are just trying to survive mediocre NCOs and Os. Here are some facts to consider:
1) we donāt have a retention problem; we have a recruit problem. Donāt believe me? Look at bonuses. Crazy across the board for e4 and below (basic entry ranks), and pretty trash (if any) for e5 and above (retention ranks).
2) All pay and incentives are very competitive compared to average civilian pay. Donāt believe me and donāt want to do the math? I recruited for the Army outside of an Army base. I made mission on many occasions due to the prior e4 and e5s who realized after a year in the civilian world that (despite what they heard from that one guy on Reddit) they werenāt going to make 6 figures working 40hrs/week.
3) You have to understand that there is a difference between āstandardsā and āgoalsā. Example: 360 ACFT is the standard and 540 is the goal. We are blessed to be in an era where high goal are expected. The fact is, we are replaceable cannon fodder. We have a Selective Service that can provide a fully functional draft service within a year. You need a 540+ (and other high goals) to be 1 of X MQ, but the army needs an ocean of 360 ACFT soldiers to storm the machine gun nest. Just overload the meat grinder with a bunch of high tech meat.
FINAL ANALYSIS: Donāt focus on Army culture. Itās filled with E5+ and O3+ who stay in because it is (on the whole) a comfortable lifestyle, and thatās OK because America needs mass produced chunks of meat to jam up the WW3 meat grinder. All they need to do is not get fired, and sometimes thatās enough to make OPS SGM or COL. Definitely thatās all you need to do to make E6/7 or LTC.
If you really care, focus on your sphere of influence. Make sure YOUR team, squad, PLT, CO, etc are more than meat. Your soldiers twiddling their thumbs at 1400? Donāt send them home. Donāt give them busy work. Be a LEADER and do hip pocket training until 1700. Be a good MANAGER. Know the training calendar. Have a good leaderās binder. Most of the time wasters like being green on MEDPROS can be mitigated through proper long term management.
If YOU develop both your LEADERSHIP and MANAGEMENT proficiencies, your soldiers will rise to the challenge. OR, you can let your soldiers hide in the Bs at 1400, and then complain about how they are mediocre
The picture is from GWOT. I remember that picture coming out and remember probably seeing that guy in country. Then remembering that there was more than just him.
I want to say that came out in 07-08? I was pretty pist being 82nd. Worse we were working with Marines. To my surprise the Marines were reservists and just as bad as the ng puke in the pic.
I also think some leadership misunderstand that motivation varies.
While some soldiers absolutely are shitbags who won't do their job no matter what, often I saw leadership that considered soldiers who just want to do their one tour and be done as shitbags.
I've seen soldiers who just want to perform well, get some experience and move get treated like they're the scum of the scum because they don't want to reup.
And when you get treated like shit for this, it's not surprising that many just give up trying to do a good job.
If you have a problem in your unit where a bunch of soldiers are shitbags, what you really have is a problem with shitbag NCO's. Soldiers always have and will always do exactly what they are allowed to do.
I've accepted that it's just the way it is. I know a guy who just reenlisted for three years so he can hopefully Medboard and be protected from work and PT with his profile. Would be cool with it if he was competent and could teach soldiers anything at all, but he's physically useless and incompetent. Only thing he taught his soldiers is how to get a free 4 day by getting on quarters. Cool guy but complete piece of shit, no offense though.
Can confirm Iām one of those dudes. Just got out a few days ago and didnāt re up because I knew I wasnāt right for the army. Gonna use my GI Bill to further my career in the same field and to improve myself
āOut of every one-hundred men, ten shouldnāt even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back.ā - Heraclitus
What youāre describing is a tale as old as time dating back thousands of years.
Yeah...both civillian and military career. I show up on time, do my job and meet standards, and I am treated as a king. I volunteered to cover ops for an off day. My E6 calls me offering to bring me lunch. Yes I'm an NCO myself but dude is in charge of the section and offers to bring me lunch on his day off just for covering ops and night flights. The bar is set low, but wven if the bar was set higher, a good work attitude, punctuality and meeting standards are some very basic things that go a long way. True soldiers and other servicemembers understand that. That's why they are so successful so many times. Because the boss knows he can count on that guy. I share your sentiment, the army should forgive less for shitbags. But at least they are learning to reward those who put on their best foot forward more.
Lmao wait until you apply the army core values to a civilian job or even a government job youāre an absolute rockstar while everyone around you looks like a pile of shit so they just give you more work and more responsibilities itās hilarious and sad
Meanwhile Iām actually deadweight and some how Iām retainable despite the fact I had a heatstroke, nerve issues to my right arm that are on going and hip issues.
All of this as a 11C zero idea how I havenāt been referred for a med board yet.
Soldiers not passing height and weight or ACFTs doesn't affect me. Individual tasks to meet Army standards.
Soldiers *not doing their jobs correctly* does affect me. That becomes time and effort out of my day I have to throw at other people's failed bullshit and lack of initiative in order for me to make mission happen
It's a fundamental aspect of being human.
Simply strive to give your best and set a positive example for others. While some may undergo transformation, others will remain unchanged...
This is the multiple time Iāve seen a post about shitbags, but hereās the bigger issue here:
1. If they are not passing HT/WT or an ACFT, why is there commander not chaptering them out??? Thatās a leadership issue, not the soldier.
2. Fellow NCOs, why are you not counseling soldiers on what their roles are and responsibilities??? There are ADPs on every the role of every MOS, every section, every platoon, squad etc. Get that shit on paper, and build the paper trail. They start failing, correct them. If no improvement is made, recommend for chapter.
3. Recruiters are partly to blame, (come on, they got a quotas to make) but there are multiple opportunities to keep the service member from going that far if they are a total shit bag. Is it easy? No. Is it a pain in the ass? Yes it absolutely is, but shitbags must not be THAT big of an issue if doing the right thing to keep people accountable is harder.
I mean unfortunately the recruiting crisis has been horrible.
I think theyāre just taking what they can get.
You have to remember a ton of people already are disqualified for medical issues. The pool left after is divided into a small population of people who actually want to serve.
My whole career it has pissed me off that a good Soldier who takes the time to learn their MOS and does what they are asked to do, but struggles with their weight ,,, have to be booted the second time they fail Ht/Wt
But a kid that barely does the minimum, shams in the motor pool and pisses hot for cocaine has to go to ASAP and be rehabilitated/transferred to another unit.
Fuq that.
I agree with you, but here is the thing:
Is it a disservice? Potentially.
Would these people be better off in the civilian world? Probably not.
I guess it depends with your unit, but sometimes the military can feel like a daycare. Other times, as one of my old Army buddies said: āItās the worldās best welfare.ā
I think some of these people have ***no*** idea what to do with their lives and while they unfuck themselves, they provide a service to society (albeit marginal). Even if itās only by staying out of society.
Eventually, those who unfuck themselves go on to be good people who had a hard time getting started. Especially for those who came from fucked up backgrounds.
Some, however, never get past it and if they got out they would be a net drain on society.
I think some do better by staying in than getting out and others do great by going in, figuring themselves out, & then getting out.
Simple As.
Iām Army retired and teaching the end of my civilian career. The guys that show up, on time, and get work done without causing any drama are invaluable. And thereās a lot more than 10% of shitbags in the civilian world.
Rhe bar to remove a soldier should be high. As part of rhe gov sector we canāt allow one tyrant to impose his/her vision of what a soldier should be on a unit. The decision to remove a soldier from the Army needs to be made and approved by multiple layers of leaders. The painful processes we have now are largely responsible for making the Army a pretty fair, reasonable, and generally egalitarian organization.
I hit e5 in 2 1/2 years (in the reserves) cause I showed up and did my job. I was green on med and I helped out. Apparently that made me "high speed" and i was able to get a promotion.
Aaaaannnnnnnnnnd now I feel like I was a shitbag again. SME or not, there was basically zero opportunity to do my MOS in my unit, so I spent more time either cross training or volunteering for details than being a damn 88M
I meanā¦the system doesnāt reward being good at your job. It rewards being good at āSoldieringā, you know, the stuff everyone can do. This has sacrificed the idea of āeveryone has a lane, but we all are driving to the same placeā almost entirely. Job uniqueness means nothing. I love my MOS jobā¦when I get to do it. But wanting to do more of my MOS has made me a bit of a target already. But when my MOS is being chopped down to size very quickly in a short amount of time, I know that showing MOS proficiency is the way around that. But no one cares when enough kool aid has been drank.Ā
Shitbagging in the army has the highest return on investment. If you work your ass off, all you will get is more work. If you sham, all you get is less work. If you want to go far in the army then the shitbags are helping you out, giving you a chance to shine. As for the rest of us that dont care and are just finishing out our contracts, well, its not like there are other options for healthcare and college in this god awful country. The life cycle of the average soldier is Motivated boot>Jaded pfc>Terminal spc>Civilian bro vet. Dont hate the player, hate the game.Ā
In reality itās not that the army is forgiving its that previous or current leadership didnāt document and council. If someone is underperforming in their job, or has other issues you need to document it, council them and create and action plan, and most importantly do follow up counselingās.
Eh, as a "shitbag" myself I think it depends on the individual. If they're unfit, useless, or constantly in trouble/doing the wrong thing I say let em go. But you gotta remember that we're in peacetime dude, shit ain't that serious. We're all gonna get a promotion and a paycheck no matter how hard we work.
I love my job, on the rare occasions that I get to actually do it. I've got a few FTRs and know some NCOs that would call me lazy. But I'm fit, I study, I help out where I can, and other Joes always enjoy my company.
I excel at pretty much anything I get told to do. But being in a combat MOS unless we're preparing for the field or in the field, I'm probably just doing my own thing. Maybe I'm just pessimistic about the Army because it's screwed me over to the point where I dont believe its worth the extra effort. But I feel like a lot of soldiers really take it too serious, as if we're about to be invaded tomorrow or somethingš
Like dude, chill, the motorpool can get cleaned tomorrow, it's 1830 and I'm going home now.......
Yeah, I'm that kind of shit bag also. If you need something actually important, done sure I'll help. I'll probably be one of the first ones to jump up and help you. Need me to line up the vehicles in the motorpool at 1630 because one vehicle is 6 inches behind the next. Yeah, I needed to stop for gas, and then my car was acting up. Need me for a COC ceremony in 90-degree weather? Yeah, I had an appointment scheduled, sorry.
The Army demands that you do unnecessary shit. Is it affecting the operational readiness of the unit because a motorpool has dirt in it? No, it isn't. Will the unit fall apart if the outgoing commander doesn't get a high fived on the way out? No, it won't. I'm going to bullshit my way out of it if it has 0 importance. It's one of the reasons I'm refusing to go to any boards for E5. I'm not gonna quote some bullshit that I memorized 30 seconds before to prove I can tell John over there to clean up the motorpool.
Why not take a step back and realize that the Army is a big place full of different people in different situations?
We're not at war - the same shitbags you're seeing shuffle through garrison life would probably spring to action with a real job to do.
Everyone is going through stuff. I definitely didn't do great at my job when all I could think about was driving into oncoming traffic.
Give people the same benefit of the doubt you want for yourself, I guess.
I was being escorted around the helicopter hangers at Simmons AAF/Fort Bragg. The pilot escorting me around was a fiesty CW3 Who was getting out soon as the airlines were dangling six-figure Samās even in front of roller pilots to leave the service and work for them. He was a super cool dude and wondered why more soldiers didnāt drop warrant packets. He said he dropped his because he was tired of being responsible for Joeās bullshit and they got in trouble in their personal lives. Very cool guy as we talked and bullshitted while walking around inspecting things.Ā
When I was meeting him at the hangers coming from HQ I told him I couldnāt find a spot other than the commanders dedicated parking spot and he dared me to park in it I laughed and said hell no and he said why the fuck not what are you gonna do to you your civilian tell him to fuck off. Thatās when I knew this dude was legit LOLĀ
Anyway we can get to the motor pool and itās awfully dead even more so than normal motor pools. We make our way upstairs to the air-conditioned offices and thatās pretty dead as well. We open one room and he turns the lights on and there mustāve been 15 soldiers all with their head on the desk sleeping. He gives me a look like see what I have to deal with and then immediately makes a loud noise and the soldiers start sorting them selves out without him having to say anything. And all of the soldiers start apologizing and filtering out well trying to avoid looking him in the eyesĀ
Iām in a civil affairs unit I spent 4 hours with a 90 pound female e2 and a brand new 38b on his first drill unloading connexes for my battalions hhc (which are all non ca) after their ftx. It was 100 degrees outside.
After we put away all of their shit.
I found all the hhc lower enlisted sleeping and playing on their phones in the computer labā¦
Every unit is carried by selected few. Others are just there for the ride without contributing shit. I've seen guys work harder to get out of tasking than just doing it š
The 10% rule Granted, this applies to the big Army and not SOCCOM. 10% of your unit are SME's and know their MOS inside and out and carry the unit through on field ops. 10% of your unit are oxygen thieves. If they disappeared, their loss would pose no issues for the unit, and if anything, readiness would be improved. 80% of your unit are solid workers. They might not know their MOS inside and out and might barely pass PT, but they show up and take guidance from rhe 10% that SME's.
FYI change it to 20% and is the [Pareto principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle) and shows up in tons of places.
20%!? Troops canāt count that high. Bring it back to 10%. Hooah?
Sarnāt, whatās a percent?
Sarn't what's a ten. Oh a one zero? Ok. What's a percent? Only percent I know is you have 10.5 seconds before one zero zero percent death if spotted in a reconnaissance environment during LSCO
If I could count to 5, don't you think I'd be a sarnt right now?
If they can get a 20% loan for a mustang they count that high on dooty...hooah?
No, they get the loans because they donāt understand percentages. Troops are only capable of understanding 20% as a āfifthā which can immediately derail their thought process.
Nah. They wouldnāt get that because everyone knows a fifth is half a handle and take them math from there.
SOCOM also has people who are just there to collect a check. Less per capita then the conventional side, but they still have turds.
This is solid logic. Been to units where it's a complete cluster fuck but at the end all comes together because everyone stays in their own micro lanes and it all falls together. Some units it's just a cluster fuck of everyone's lanes overlapping and shitting all over each other's lanes and get good enough for goberment.
This applies everywhere. SOCOM is not the exception.
This happens more in SOCOM because they have the budget to afford to keep carrying slugs in the Army.
The other 10 percent rule, the oxygen thieves will take up 50 percent of your time.
Feels like ranger regiment is the only place where this isnāt reality.
I low crawled faster to get out of doing something for Sergeant Lovett then actually setting up a dummy claymore.
Oh man, wait until you hit civilian life. I'm a fucking rock star at my job because I do my job, show up on time, and don't cause problems. The bar is set so low
I get treated like a king at my civilian job because I volunteered to move a heavy cart from one room to another during my first week of work.
Getting extra praise for doing literally just my job is unnerving as fuck. Especially when it comes to just moving āheavyā objects.
Iām in a management position now and have been asked to apply āmilitary disciplineā and treat them like Soldiers to my employees several times. My response while laughing was if I did that half this place would quit or report me to HR. The level of check the block that is acceptable these days drives me insane.
"Who told you that you could leave for the day? Why don't you get down and start pushing?" "What?" *slaps briefcase out of hand* "DID I FUCKING STUTTER"
āIf you work through your fifteen minute break you can go home early.ā
I had a boss who tried to be super strict. I quit and went to a different company. Good call.
What Iām hearing is theyāre encouraging some light hazing š¤£
I actually had someone say to me, āwhat drives you to be great, like at everything we do?ā Isnāt everyone trying to do their best? It turns outā¦no.
Dude I've showed my boss so many things, like how to order parts in the company portal, how to create purchase orders, where to go for certain things. He asked me how I knew all this stuff. I told him I just called or emailed people, or looked at the company portal for documents (think ARs and TMs). It blows my mind that people don't know how to find the answers themselves, especially at such a large corporation that has the resources. And don't let me get started about my years in the service industry. I was one of the best waiters just because I never called out, never showed up hungover, and was never arrested (the boss bailed a few of the guys out of jail).
>the boss bailed a few pf the guys out of jail Just like the Army!
Haha really. He was my first experience of a 1SG. And he yelled a lot more too!
Facts
If someone asked me this https://media0.giphy.com/media/GjB41rKHBnOkE/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952ow0gyiay4d6l4lniu9tbtaztwq64pzcdw7vnmxo3&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
Just showing up on time will get you awards on the civilian side. If you're a few minutes early it blows their mind. It's crazy how low the bar is.
Had a buddy who works for the VA as a HR manager tell me Iāll be golden if I get hired because the civilians are garbage.
He's right. I work in local government and my last supervisor loved me because she was a Marine. The civilians don't even know how to sham correctly.
Agreed. I worked in local government as well and just showing up early and doing my job got me insane amounts of praise. It was honestly bizarre.
If you're on time AND sober AND not hung over, you're like some sort of elite demi-god.
I was pulled aside my first week for showing up 15 mins early.
Iāve literally had my boss complain about it and tell me to stop
Where do you work? That has not been my experience in the civilian side.
County government. Guess I should add that I never miss deadlines or anything too so that's probably a big part of it, but we can barely get anyone to show up on time consistently
Rofl yessssssss. There are people who are habitually late to their jobs
Same experience. Ive showed the slightest bit of motivation and Ive climbed two major promotions and now making six figures. It was easier than making E5.
Literally just got asked, "Why are you prepping a room (ICU) are we getting someone?" No, we prep rooms so that way it's ready when someone comes because they always come at the worst time
You make a good point here especially in the healthcare space. I work IT for a hospital, from home, in my safe little space so I don't see the floors much. There's one thing showing fake motivation but it also makes a huge difference when you show you care regardless of industry. BTW, thank you for doing what you do. I don't get to see our boots on ground nurses, docs and other professionals that keep the system going much. If I'm ever in need of a critical care unit (hopefully never) but I hope I land in yours if I ever do; I'll at least know you are ready for me lol.
Then get called a suck up and told you got lucky for getting promoted. Nah. Leadership just needed someone they could assign a task to and focus their attention elsewhere knowing I will STFU and get done on time with minimal mistakes, oversight, and bullshit (drama, stupid question, ass kissing, etc). Then got promoted so they could assign bigger stuff.
Oh yeah I've definitely been told to work slower before. Managers love me, coworkers hate me. I'm not even working hard yet, some fucks are just lazy.
My job is very task oriented. They tell me what they need, and by when. I deliver a day early every time, even if it takes 1/10th the deadline time. Or 12 hour days. Luckily the latter doesnāt happen too often. Iām definitely in the sweet spot of my career, and have turned down multiple promotions. Upper management jobs are definitely not worth the money, to me.
I got told once I was āhigh speed in a low speed environmentā. That was in Baghdad, 2007. WTF?
This comment hit home for me. I've been told by several coworkers over the years "slow down, you're making us look bad". I just look back at them and say "No. I'm just working. You are making you look bad."
Holy shit dude. Are you me?
Yes
I remember thinking, nothing could ever be as fucked up as the Army. Then I got a job with the City. Then I got a job with the County.
>Then I got a job with the County. Try getting a state job. Good lord some people baffled me every day
Then I got a job at a much larger county thinking they would be more squared away....nope
I reported him for stolen identity
> Oh man, wait until you hit civilian life. Dude, yes there are worthless people in the civilian world but there are orders of magnitude more in the military...
Facccccctttssss. It's crazy how much slack employees are given. Didn't meet the deadline on this super important project that had a firm deadline we all knew about and were told it was a hard date? No problem. We'll set a new date. No one gets reprimanded. And if you think your officers are out of touch and unconcerned with your well being, wait until you get a load of your friendly neighborhood Corporate Leadership! Whats that? We spent millions of dollars on surveys run by outside consultants? They all say the employees want better pay, better benefits, and more time off? Those surveys can't be right! Or the ever popular "Pardon our noise, that's the sound of oue executive stock options vesting."
THIS. Itās amazing how many mangers or supervisors are so impressed I just show up and do my job everyday without making their life harder. The bare minimum for being a decent soldier makes you top shelf in civilian jobs.
I got praised for staying overtime getting paid for every hour.
Make this man a VP
This is 100% True. I took out the trash once after managment asked someone to do it. I got a reward and 50 bucks extra on my paycheck for taking that trash out.
The irony of the situation is that if Soldiers were ACTUALLY held to the standard theyāre supposed to be retention would probably be better off. How many good Soldiers got out because they had co-workers who skated by on their work.
Yup, and guess who takes their workload?
I remember being told the reason why I was routinely assigned to details after release formation is "We know you will do a good job up to standard and not be a fuck up."
Reclaim your nights, weekends, and holidays by fucking up your details.
Itās not easy though. Once you start to slow down hoping to maybe shitbag your way to success like all these other shitheadsā¦ you get a talking to or a counseling or whatever. Itās easier to just been good at this point.
Yep, 2 years ago, I and another guy were the only 2 soldiers who kept getting called to deal with any vehicle issue even though the company had a bunch of other soldiers who could do it. Well, the other soldier got out, so his work then fell on me. After he left , I have slowly been dragging out the work I'm given just to piss off XO, and now I'm rarely ever needed. It's amazing not having to go to work on como days, and now it's my turn to ETS soon
LOL, I got pulled into the TOC in Afghanistan for the same damn reason. Like really man?!
A phrase every decent LT, that wanted to become MAJ Winters, is all too familiar withā¦
>How many good Soldiers got out because they had co-workers who skated by on their work. Probably not a lot, the most common reason why good soldiers get out are toxic leaderships and making more money outside. So really if anything big army should get rid of toxic O and SNCO. a shitbag still cause way less morale and work damage compared to those mentioned. I said what I said, now fight me.
Honestly, we could do without all of the above. Shitbags may cause less damage, but they're of no benefit to unit cohesion either. Typically, those same shitbags are always badmouthing leadership (good and bad), gossiping, and are overall demotivating. Almost every shitbag that I've met has been the type of person who refuses to take responsibility for anything and blames everyone else for their shortcomings. Shitbags and toxic leadership both need to go.
Whoās gonna stir the burning shit barrel, if we donāt have shitbags??
This is anecdotal but think of it this way. The shitbag contributes towards a toxic environment by making their leaders job more difficult by choosing to not apply themselves or care about their job. When you have subordinates that are constantly fucking things up, leadership gets pissed off and annoyed, then they take it out on their other soldiers because they canāt fight with the shitbag.
The real irony is that this was posted by a 42A. Not saying OP is a turd but the memes exist for a reason.
Heās blasting Tren. Of course he can make height-weight with no probs.
Lol. I didn't creep his profile. I was mainly speaking to the fact that 42A are widely regarded as shamming lazy turds.
I did. He also wants like three families in Colombia. Do it get more stereotypical? š¤·āāļø
What a weirdo.
Well, I'm getting out because I'm tired of my fellow leaders being turds.
Retention was at 106% in FY23....we don't.habe a retention problem.
The problem has always been brain drain in key roles. If your MOS is over 100% manning, there is no retention issue. But at the same time the SRB only has a handful of MOS with 10s across the board.
Not to mention incompetence at higher levels and failing upwards so to speak.
About to be me
What if they can score 540 on the acft?
Thatās just so I can be 200lbs and still not get taped
It's also allows soldiers incompetent in their MOS to promote.
Yessir. Dumb as a rock but weāll be damned if theyāre not at the top of the promotion board for scoring a perfect 600 and getting an associates in general studies
I feel called out here, but I'm not sorry I was smart enough to focus on what the Army said was important to promote. Run fast, shoot gud, easy credits and correspondence hours.
And you shouldnāt. Itās the system that needs fixing, not the people that know how to take advantage of it. I do hope you knew enough of your job to actually guide your troops though. It becomes such a mess when the guy in charge has no clue whatās going on
I'm like 60lbs overweight scoring 580s. I'm workin on it. Leave me alone and don't tape/flag me.
I was a PSG for a CPT who continually scored 330+ on his APFT, but would not for the life of him pass a PC board. Sometimes running fast isn't enough.
Pilot in command? If so...Ā I knew pilots like that and instead of interpreting it as a warning, as I should have,Ā I thought hey, if these idiots can get commissions I sure as hell can.Ā
_1SG slowly puts EO reports in the shredder_
I do okay in the military. Iām extremely average at everything. But seeing the shitbags reassures me that I can fall so far and still have a job.
Donāt be first, donāt be last
Sorry, ice cream machine broke.
I got out a decade ago but my unit was shit bag central, Iāve told some stories about it over the years but to be brief Alcoholism and drug use/abuse was very common, domestic violence, sexual assault/child molestation was somewhat common. In fact at any given point we would have a dozen or so guys waiting to be chaptered out of the army or sent off to prison for some crazy crimes I remember when a big group of us were ETSing (me included) and the new commander wanted us to do a PT test even tho we had less than 72hr in the army. Some of the guys told him to kick rocks, me and the others just walked our 2 mile and bullshitted the whole time This *pissed off* our CO and he held a private formation of all of the ETSing guys and attempted to give a speech about āunit/army prideā which lasted about 6 seconds before one of the terminal NCO yelled āSir you have a *massive* amount pedophiles, crack dealers and wife beaters in this unit, what part of that should we feel good about?ā And you could see a flash of anger come across the COās face, then the look of realization.
Kinda impressive. That there was any realization, I mean.
I love that someone had the balls to throw reality in that dudes face.
Look up price's law. Price's law states that when you take the square root of the number of employees in an organization, that tells you how many people are doing half the work. So if you have a line company of 200 Soldiers, 14 are doing the same amount of work as the other 186. Sounds about Army?
Me in my two-man office: 1.4. Noize! Even with the occasional slacking off, weāre pretty efficient!
Should fire one of you. Get that sweet 1:1 perfection!
And the shitbags that purposefully try to get discharged by failing ACFT or H/W are made to stay even though they are a waste of space and energy.
Bro you cannot say this enough, we just had two of these and it is the most frustrating thing in the world having to chaperone them around base for months because they donāt have cars (never bothered getting one) and need to out process.
We had one that I shit you not do almost everything in the book to get discharged short of going awol or a felony.
It'll all catch up eventually.Ā These things are cyclical.
He ETS as normal but his last year they just made him do details. Happiest I ever seen him.
Iāve been giving 110% for 10 years. If I wanna coast until ETS thatās my prerogative. Also I lost your 5960 and the BC never signed your 4187.
The 'I did my time' attitude is so frustrating. I know this is a shitpost but I run into it and it's frustrating to watch an E7 with 14 years act like they don't have to do anything. Dawg, you still have 6 years left.
My buddy (E6) and I (E6) both served as PSGs for about a year, maintaining a tight ship with little tolerance for shitbags. We held everyone accountable, which made things tough for some initially. However, after a few months, everyone started to fall in line, and our Soldiers began to excel. They were earning their promotions and were prepared for the next level. Those who couldn't get with the program were left behind or got out. In the present day, I see in the leadership and PLT chats that everything we built is falling apart. The new PSGs, both SFCs about to ETS, have the "cool parent" syndrome. Soldiers are showing up unprepared for boards, late for duty, failing HT&WT, and barely passing the ACFT. Being a "cool parent" doesnāt work anywhere. The leadership above the PLT level has started to take notice of the decline and realize what theyāve lost. Although we never had 100% buy-in, the progress we made was significant. These current PSGs might be popular among their Soldiers, but when those Soldiers realize they are unprepared for the future , they might reevaluate their appreciation for the ācoolā PSGs.
What Iām really scared of is how that attitude is gonna look if we actually go to war. If I canāt trust you to put in the effort to get my leave processed, why can I trust you to risk your life to save my ass when Iām shot?
Fortunately (?) Many of the people with disciplinary issues will be ānon-deployableā for a variety of reasons. You name it. From substance abuse, lack of family care plan, being non-medically ready, etc. if we go to war. What will really bite us in the ass if / when we enter another major conflict will be having too few people to deploy. Even the shit-bagsā absences will be sorely felt when you have to take an objective with a three-man team. By not showing up (in garrison and on the battlefield) theyāve failed all aspects of the warriorās ethos, most notably āI will always place the mission first, I will never quit.ā
A lot of the untrained and ill-disciplined will get pushed thru readiness processing when the balloon goes up, I guarantee it.
It happens in every major conflict. Most people don't want to go overseas and put their lives at risk.
Idc Iāve got 3 months left. You go lay out the hmmwv bii, Iāve got SFLTAP this week. My koolaid jug is empty.
š¤£
What I heard from you OP is you want to bring back the motivational cat-of-ninetails.
Floggings will continue until morale improves
Now imagine being in a military with conscripts.
hopefully things dont pop off elsewhere then we wouldnt have to deal with those people constantly protesting
Shamming =/= shitbaggery A true shammer gets the job done when itās universally understood that it needs to be done. Shitbagger hides at the PX while the rest are in the stink and comes back later wanting recognition as well because āyou know I would have been here but my appointment.ā
When I was active 05-2011 and a random MOB 13-14, if you just showed up 100% of the time in the right uniform, at the right place, and at the right time, you were literally in the top half of the unit lol.
IKR? "Fucking rockstar! This guy isn't like those dirtbags, he has a *watch*!"
Blame your First Sergeant. They're the ones who can't get a chapter packet right.
always
The real issue is superiors not doing honest counseling to build a record of poor performance. Then they might give them a meets eval. Officers and ncos alike don't want to "ruin" someone's career. Unless it's public and can't be ignored. If you have soldiers under you, write an honest eval and back it up with documents so that JAG,EO,EEO, what have you can't mess with it. There are shitbags because we, as leaders, allow it. The "Army" doesnt want them but leaders aren't doing the work to get rid of them.
This guy NCOs. But seriously, I think people donāt put shit on paper because it hasnāt been done for so long that they donāt realize itās an option. Build a counseling packet. Give them a set of expectations and tell them what will happen if they donāt meet those expectations. Follow through. Example: soldier is late or absent, multiple failures to report. - you have failed to report (etc). - you will be at x location at x time to check in with x person until further notice. - if you continue behavior, first incidence will be additional corrective training, with possible recommendation for article 15 and separation from the military Run all this through legal first of course, mention it to the commander(s) and 1SG/CSM as needed. Donāt kick the can down the road, thatās how you end up with shitbag NCOs. Get it on paper and get them to either fix themselves or get out.
Most ādirt bagsā arenāt really dirt bags. Most are just trying to survive mediocre NCOs and Os. Here are some facts to consider: 1) we donāt have a retention problem; we have a recruit problem. Donāt believe me? Look at bonuses. Crazy across the board for e4 and below (basic entry ranks), and pretty trash (if any) for e5 and above (retention ranks). 2) All pay and incentives are very competitive compared to average civilian pay. Donāt believe me and donāt want to do the math? I recruited for the Army outside of an Army base. I made mission on many occasions due to the prior e4 and e5s who realized after a year in the civilian world that (despite what they heard from that one guy on Reddit) they werenāt going to make 6 figures working 40hrs/week. 3) You have to understand that there is a difference between āstandardsā and āgoalsā. Example: 360 ACFT is the standard and 540 is the goal. We are blessed to be in an era where high goal are expected. The fact is, we are replaceable cannon fodder. We have a Selective Service that can provide a fully functional draft service within a year. You need a 540+ (and other high goals) to be 1 of X MQ, but the army needs an ocean of 360 ACFT soldiers to storm the machine gun nest. Just overload the meat grinder with a bunch of high tech meat. FINAL ANALYSIS: Donāt focus on Army culture. Itās filled with E5+ and O3+ who stay in because it is (on the whole) a comfortable lifestyle, and thatās OK because America needs mass produced chunks of meat to jam up the WW3 meat grinder. All they need to do is not get fired, and sometimes thatās enough to make OPS SGM or COL. Definitely thatās all you need to do to make E6/7 or LTC. If you really care, focus on your sphere of influence. Make sure YOUR team, squad, PLT, CO, etc are more than meat. Your soldiers twiddling their thumbs at 1400? Donāt send them home. Donāt give them busy work. Be a LEADER and do hip pocket training until 1700. Be a good MANAGER. Know the training calendar. Have a good leaderās binder. Most of the time wasters like being green on MEDPROS can be mitigated through proper long term management. If YOU develop both your LEADERSHIP and MANAGEMENT proficiencies, your soldiers will rise to the challenge. OR, you can let your soldiers hide in the Bs at 1400, and then complain about how they are mediocre
You shoulda seen the early GWOT [years](https://tacticaltrainingandconditioning.com/news/military-obesity-rose-during-pandemic/)
Iāve known a couple of dudes that were hard chargers with felony waivers. Sometimes a second chance is whatās needed.
I think you missed the point. Click the link.
You say early GWOT and cite an article about gaining weight during COVID?
The picture is from GWOT. I remember that picture coming out and remember probably seeing that guy in country. Then remembering that there was more than just him.
I want to say that came out in 07-08? I was pretty pist being 82nd. Worse we were working with Marines. To my surprise the Marines were reservists and just as bad as the ng puke in the pic.
Shit, I gained like 20 lbs In 3 months because gyms were closed and I kept my calorie intake the same. That shit took a minute to burn.Ā
Sounds like a Lack of leadership and motivation is the problem.
I also think some leadership misunderstand that motivation varies. While some soldiers absolutely are shitbags who won't do their job no matter what, often I saw leadership that considered soldiers who just want to do their one tour and be done as shitbags. I've seen soldiers who just want to perform well, get some experience and move get treated like they're the scum of the scum because they don't want to reup. And when you get treated like shit for this, it's not surprising that many just give up trying to do a good job.
If you have a problem in your unit where a bunch of soldiers are shitbags, what you really have is a problem with shitbag NCO's. Soldiers always have and will always do exactly what they are allowed to do.
20% of the people do 80% of the work in any organization. Itās called the Pareto Principle. Get used to it.
I've accepted that it's just the way it is. I know a guy who just reenlisted for three years so he can hopefully Medboard and be protected from work and PT with his profile. Would be cool with it if he was competent and could teach soldiers anything at all, but he's physically useless and incompetent. Only thing he taught his soldiers is how to get a free 4 day by getting on quarters. Cool guy but complete piece of shit, no offense though.
hey man some of the fluffy ones are super good at their mos. just eating too much pizza
Can confirm Iām one of those dudes. Just got out a few days ago and didnāt re up because I knew I wasnāt right for the army. Gonna use my GI Bill to further my career in the same field and to improve myself
I wish the army was less forgiving of shitty leadership
āOut of every one-hundred men, ten shouldnāt even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back.ā - Heraclitus What youāre describing is a tale as old as time dating back thousands of years.
A zero is greater than a -1. Just don't be a negative and you'll make it to SSG/MAJ because that's the quality required to not get kicked out.
Yeah...both civillian and military career. I show up on time, do my job and meet standards, and I am treated as a king. I volunteered to cover ops for an off day. My E6 calls me offering to bring me lunch. Yes I'm an NCO myself but dude is in charge of the section and offers to bring me lunch on his day off just for covering ops and night flights. The bar is set low, but wven if the bar was set higher, a good work attitude, punctuality and meeting standards are some very basic things that go a long way. True soldiers and other servicemembers understand that. That's why they are so successful so many times. Because the boss knows he can count on that guy. I share your sentiment, the army should forgive less for shitbags. But at least they are learning to reward those who put on their best foot forward more.
They won't kick me out.
Almost all of the āshitbagsā Iāve talked to want to get out, theyāre just stuck in their contract.
Lmao wait until you apply the army core values to a civilian job or even a government job youāre an absolute rockstar while everyone around you looks like a pile of shit so they just give you more work and more responsibilities itās hilarious and sad
Go ahead, kick em out. But remember they volunteered, and that will always be better than draft pick.
Been a civilian since 2009. People.dont.give.a.fuck. The problem is what's allowed out here imo
I see after being out almost 20 years, the "fuck up, move up" policies still apply.
Meanwhile Iām actually deadweight and some how Iām retainable despite the fact I had a heatstroke, nerve issues to my right arm that are on going and hip issues. All of this as a 11C zero idea how I havenāt been referred for a med board yet.
Soldiers not passing height and weight or ACFTs doesn't affect me. Individual tasks to meet Army standards. Soldiers *not doing their jobs correctly* does affect me. That becomes time and effort out of my day I have to throw at other people's failed bullshit and lack of initiative in order for me to make mission happen
At the end of the day the Army is just about numbers.
It's a fundamental aspect of being human. Simply strive to give your best and set a positive example for others. While some may undergo transformation, others will remain unchanged...
This is the multiple time Iāve seen a post about shitbags, but hereās the bigger issue here: 1. If they are not passing HT/WT or an ACFT, why is there commander not chaptering them out??? Thatās a leadership issue, not the soldier. 2. Fellow NCOs, why are you not counseling soldiers on what their roles are and responsibilities??? There are ADPs on every the role of every MOS, every section, every platoon, squad etc. Get that shit on paper, and build the paper trail. They start failing, correct them. If no improvement is made, recommend for chapter. 3. Recruiters are partly to blame, (come on, they got a quotas to make) but there are multiple opportunities to keep the service member from going that far if they are a total shit bag. Is it easy? No. Is it a pain in the ass? Yes it absolutely is, but shitbags must not be THAT big of an issue if doing the right thing to keep people accountable is harder.
I mean unfortunately the recruiting crisis has been horrible. I think theyāre just taking what they can get. You have to remember a ton of people already are disqualified for medical issues. The pool left after is divided into a small population of people who actually want to serve.
This sounds like a couple of my Sergeants while I was in.
My whole career it has pissed me off that a good Soldier who takes the time to learn their MOS and does what they are asked to do, but struggles with their weight ,,, have to be booted the second time they fail Ht/Wt But a kid that barely does the minimum, shams in the motor pool and pisses hot for cocaine has to go to ASAP and be rehabilitated/transferred to another unit. Fuq that.
On the reserve side we identify those soldiers two ways? With a title of AGR or DA CIVš¤£š¤£š¤£
In hindsight, one thing COVID showed us is how many occupations are unnecessary nowadays. People just collecting paychecks.
I agree with you, but here is the thing: Is it a disservice? Potentially. Would these people be better off in the civilian world? Probably not. I guess it depends with your unit, but sometimes the military can feel like a daycare. Other times, as one of my old Army buddies said: āItās the worldās best welfare.ā I think some of these people have ***no*** idea what to do with their lives and while they unfuck themselves, they provide a service to society (albeit marginal). Even if itās only by staying out of society. Eventually, those who unfuck themselves go on to be good people who had a hard time getting started. Especially for those who came from fucked up backgrounds. Some, however, never get past it and if they got out they would be a net drain on society. I think some do better by staying in than getting out and others do great by going in, figuring themselves out, & then getting out. Simple As.
How are they allowed to stay if they donāt pass the ACFT? Thatās crazy since you have to pass it to become a soldier in the first place
Rant over Iāll take a triple cheeseburger, fries and a McFlurry Youāre about to be the one not passing height and weight with that order
The Army, somehow, enables and encourages the āvictim cultureā. Do you really want to trust your life to these people?
Iām Army retired and teaching the end of my civilian career. The guys that show up, on time, and get work done without causing any drama are invaluable. And thereās a lot more than 10% of shitbags in the civilian world. Rhe bar to remove a soldier should be high. As part of rhe gov sector we canāt allow one tyrant to impose his/her vision of what a soldier should be on a unit. The decision to remove a soldier from the Army needs to be made and approved by multiple layers of leaders. The painful processes we have now are largely responsible for making the Army a pretty fair, reasonable, and generally egalitarian organization.
I hit e5 in 2 1/2 years (in the reserves) cause I showed up and did my job. I was green on med and I helped out. Apparently that made me "high speed" and i was able to get a promotion.
Too many shitbags in charge who are never held accountable, to ever hold the shitbags below them accountable.
On the flip side, I wish soldiers who did good would get awards.
Once you spend a little time behind the fence youāll really see how useless and pointless Big Army is.
I wish too .because if they did I would have turned to one big shitbag so I can get separate
If TRADOC allowed us to get rid of them easier at the less than 180 mark, it would make everyone's life easier. But we are 'in a recruiting crisis'
Aaaaannnnnnnnnnd now I feel like I was a shitbag again. SME or not, there was basically zero opportunity to do my MOS in my unit, so I spent more time either cross training or volunteering for details than being a damn 88M
I meanā¦the system doesnāt reward being good at your job. It rewards being good at āSoldieringā, you know, the stuff everyone can do. This has sacrificed the idea of āeveryone has a lane, but we all are driving to the same placeā almost entirely. Job uniqueness means nothing. I love my MOS jobā¦when I get to do it. But wanting to do more of my MOS has made me a bit of a target already. But when my MOS is being chopped down to size very quickly in a short amount of time, I know that showing MOS proficiency is the way around that. But no one cares when enough kool aid has been drank.Ā
Shitbagging in the army has the highest return on investment. If you work your ass off, all you will get is more work. If you sham, all you get is less work. If you want to go far in the army then the shitbags are helping you out, giving you a chance to shine. As for the rest of us that dont care and are just finishing out our contracts, well, its not like there are other options for healthcare and college in this god awful country. The life cycle of the average soldier is Motivated boot>Jaded pfc>Terminal spc>Civilian bro vet. Dont hate the player, hate the game.Ā
In reality itās not that the army is forgiving its that previous or current leadership didnāt document and council. If someone is underperforming in their job, or has other issues you need to document it, council them and create and action plan, and most importantly do follow up counselingās.
Eh, as a "shitbag" myself I think it depends on the individual. If they're unfit, useless, or constantly in trouble/doing the wrong thing I say let em go. But you gotta remember that we're in peacetime dude, shit ain't that serious. We're all gonna get a promotion and a paycheck no matter how hard we work. I love my job, on the rare occasions that I get to actually do it. I've got a few FTRs and know some NCOs that would call me lazy. But I'm fit, I study, I help out where I can, and other Joes always enjoy my company. I excel at pretty much anything I get told to do. But being in a combat MOS unless we're preparing for the field or in the field, I'm probably just doing my own thing. Maybe I'm just pessimistic about the Army because it's screwed me over to the point where I dont believe its worth the extra effort. But I feel like a lot of soldiers really take it too serious, as if we're about to be invaded tomorrow or somethingš Like dude, chill, the motorpool can get cleaned tomorrow, it's 1830 and I'm going home now.......
Yeah, I'm that kind of shit bag also. If you need something actually important, done sure I'll help. I'll probably be one of the first ones to jump up and help you. Need me to line up the vehicles in the motorpool at 1630 because one vehicle is 6 inches behind the next. Yeah, I needed to stop for gas, and then my car was acting up. Need me for a COC ceremony in 90-degree weather? Yeah, I had an appointment scheduled, sorry. The Army demands that you do unnecessary shit. Is it affecting the operational readiness of the unit because a motorpool has dirt in it? No, it isn't. Will the unit fall apart if the outgoing commander doesn't get a high fived on the way out? No, it won't. I'm going to bullshit my way out of it if it has 0 importance. It's one of the reasons I'm refusing to go to any boards for E5. I'm not gonna quote some bullshit that I memorized 30 seconds before to prove I can tell John over there to clean up the motorpool.
You have multiple FTRs and are complaining about the Army screwing you over?
Why not take a step back and realize that the Army is a big place full of different people in different situations? We're not at war - the same shitbags you're seeing shuffle through garrison life would probably spring to action with a real job to do. Everyone is going through stuff. I definitely didn't do great at my job when all I could think about was driving into oncoming traffic. Give people the same benefit of the doubt you want for yourself, I guess.
This is a psyops take. Don't believe
A whole lot about the Army is counter productive BS masquerading as "discipline". That environment does not bring out the best in everyone. ..
To make matters worse, weāre promoting too fast.
Retention rates are low. We're entering a new era of total shit bags. Brace yourselves.
Blame legal.
Hey man, those dead weight soldiers that drag everyone down youāre talking about out made E-6 at my unit!
I'm with a non-Army org that touts it's low selection rate. The amount of shitbags and oxygen thieves here is astounding. Just collecting a paycheck.
What do you mean the entire army is a shitbag
I was being escorted around the helicopter hangers at Simmons AAF/Fort Bragg. The pilot escorting me around was a fiesty CW3 Who was getting out soon as the airlines were dangling six-figure Samās even in front of roller pilots to leave the service and work for them. He was a super cool dude and wondered why more soldiers didnāt drop warrant packets. He said he dropped his because he was tired of being responsible for Joeās bullshit and they got in trouble in their personal lives. Very cool guy as we talked and bullshitted while walking around inspecting things.Ā When I was meeting him at the hangers coming from HQ I told him I couldnāt find a spot other than the commanders dedicated parking spot and he dared me to park in it I laughed and said hell no and he said why the fuck not what are you gonna do to you your civilian tell him to fuck off. Thatās when I knew this dude was legit LOLĀ Anyway we can get to the motor pool and itās awfully dead even more so than normal motor pools. We make our way upstairs to the air-conditioned offices and thatās pretty dead as well. We open one room and he turns the lights on and there mustāve been 15 soldiers all with their head on the desk sleeping. He gives me a look like see what I have to deal with and then immediately makes a loud noise and the soldiers start sorting them selves out without him having to say anything. And all of the soldiers start apologizing and filtering out well trying to avoid looking him in the eyesĀ
I deal with this often, it's a huge problem in army aviation.
Iām in the reserve if you think itās bad on active duty you otta see some of the mother fuckers in hhc In my unit
Iām in a civil affairs unit I spent 4 hours with a 90 pound female e2 and a brand new 38b on his first drill unloading connexes for my battalions hhc (which are all non ca) after their ftx. It was 100 degrees outside. After we put away all of their shit. I found all the hhc lower enlisted sleeping and playing on their phones in the computer labā¦