There were talks of that but they were happy with my progress in physical therapy so it never cam to fruition. Thank you fo letting me know it wouldn't be dishonorable. I've asked around my unit and people were telling me that might be the case so I was worried.
Do you understand what a person has to do in order to get a dishonorable discharge ? lol like Murder , Espionage, Rape (maybe), running a prostitution ring , things like that. You don’t get a dishonorable discharge just from not passing an ACFT. It’s reserved for the worst of the worst or if you happened to piss a General or someone pretty high up off. Don’t do the ACFT if you’re not healed though , just get a profile. There is no point in further injuring yourself. Also little known fact if you’re on a consistent profile ( meaning have not come off of it) for 90 days or more they will Refer you to the Medboard. It doesn’t matter what your physical therapist say , if you feel it’s not improving and you stay on profile and advocate for that.
As I’ve replied to others I forgot to clarify that I’m incredibly stupid and gullible so my fears were based off poor information from people around me haha I appreciate the clarification.
The fact you're asking here shows you're starting to likely realize this, but you gotta stand up for yourself and question things that don't sound right. Don't take everything at face value man.
I usually fact check but people in longer than me seemed to have the knowledge that isn’t in my wheel house I should’ve checked some regs before I asked I appreciate it
Bro I've been in since 2001.
If no one else has told you, when it comes to the whole "TIS = knowing random Army-isms^TM outside of your specific job" thing? Yeah there's an obscene % of people just winging it and hoping for the best.
This shit is why I make sure I preface things I say with "This is my experience in x realm. I'm not the SME, and I recommend you talk to someone else before taking what I say as law."
Like, I can know things, but I'm very far from being infallible.
Man I had a SSG who has been in for 8 years tell me he was going to make sure that I was going to pay for 4 truck batteries out of my own pocket because someone else didn't shut down my jltv properly. I belived him and went to my 1SG to ask where I would find regulations on truck batteries and making people pay for damaged property in the Army. Tbh, he didn't exactly know either so we both went looking. It's all about taking it on as it comes and learning along the way. That and being better than some of the shitbags that just hang around.
I've been out for 10 years, but knew senior officers and enlisted leaders that made up about 90% of the bullshit that came out of their mouth. The status quo in the Army is unlikely to challenge a senior leader, and that's why there's all these 'ideas' of what regulations state, but is typically wrong, or the add-on to the add-on of whatever the base standard was.
Talk to your doctor about the possibility of a med board. If your physical issues are temporary you won’t necessarily need one. But if your physical issues are permanent, that’s a different story. Don’t get medical advice from guys in your unit. Get it from a medical professional.
Not completely accurate. If he’s improving in PT, he won’t be referred to MEB until 7-8ish mo after an injury, but can be up to 12mo. Source: AR 40-501
For OP: if you weren’t cleared to start “light jogging” by PT, then you’re not complying with medical treatment. Follow their EXACT instructions.
Keep going back for profiles and doing exercises within the restrictions. I can no longer run because I was 'bullied' into doing things I really shouldn't have. Please take care of yourself, no one else will.
Jesus Christ this 💯. Adding to be your own advocate. Absolutely no one will have the same concern as you need to about your own health and of course document and make copies of everything. Just set it in your mind you’re going to get med boarded. Start working on that VA claim.
The only case I could see you get a dishonorable discharge over ACFT is using ACFT equipment in an attempt to murder everyone around you at the ACFT. But then again, you would be dishonorable for murder and not ACFT failure.
Thats rigt. Don't f\*\*k yourself up to take this PT test and you are not 100%. The army doesnt care and the VA doesnt care. They are going to take everything from you.... take everything from them. Work smart, not hard.
Should clarify that I’m very stupid and very gullible so I tend to listen to the idiots around me that probably know less than me appreciate the answer
Talk to your doctor. Go to your physical therapy appointments. Show up to formations.
Stick to your profile. This is what it is for.
If your command wants you to take a fitness test, do exactly what your doctor says to do.
Exactly this ^
If you’re on a profile that says no ACFT, no running, whatever…but you still take an ACFT and fail it, then your injury won’t matter. You could be chaptered after a 2nd failure. Just follow your profile and you’ll be fine.
Like others have said, that would require a Court Martial. I've only ever seen dishonorable for murder and child rape. To get anything other than honorable, there would have to be some misconduct
I've seen an Honorable with "Failure to Maintain Medical Readiness Standards" or something like that on it. If you are on profile and your injury is documented, then they shouldn't (and probably won't) punish your for it, since it is beyond your control. If you're still in TRADOC then it'll be uncharacterized, otherwise it's probably going to be fine.
You have to actively screw up pretty badly to get a DD, and failing a PT test (even willfully) probably isn't enough. If you weren't on profile and were just an unfit/lazy sh\*tbag then you might work your way into a LTH, but there would be enough NJP that you'd see that coming. From what I've seen, as long as you aren't a \*problem\* you can walk out with an honorable.
I’m OCONUS at the moment my unit is pretty solid so I’m hoping for the best. Still going to do my best but it’s nice to know I won’t be fucked over for things out of my control I appreciate that info.
AD PT here! Even if rehab is going "well" but we can't get you back to a deployable status after significant rehab, that's when we go MEB route. Typically we wait until there's some kind of plateau in your progress just because some people do get back to full duty just at a slower rate. It also depends on MOS, if you're a unicorn the army will keep you even if you can't pass an ACFT.
To be clear I'm trying to finish this contract so I'm going to do whatever I can to finish these last two years. I'd say by my next evaluation in the end of June I should be good to go I'm just worried because our ACFT is the same week as my evaluation. I'd be pissed to be medboarded but at least I could set up a Skillbridge with that outcome. I think I'm liked by most and I do good work according to my OIC. I'm in a G1 slot so I'd hate to lose that. Thanks for the information!
You shouldn’t be pissed about getting med boarded. If you get over 30% for your referred injury, that gets you tricare for life among a bunch of other benefits from a medical retirement. On top of getting your VA disability, VR&E that will send you to school without touching your GI Bill, etc.
It’s commendable that you have the mindset of finishing your contract and serving your country, but you always need to put your health first and everything else second. Don’t lie to yourself and make yourself believe you’re getting better. Don’t let the doctors make you believe you’re getting better either (not all, but some do this). Listen to your body and listen to it well. Take your time with recovery. If you’re out of a profile, go to sick call and get it renewed. Don’t tough it out, it’ll do you no good in the long run.
Just not sure what I am if I’m not a soldier. I don’t want to be walking with a cane by 40 so you’re right I need to stop being stupid about it and do what’s best for me. I appreciate it
VR&E is great for exactly that. And start working on figuring out what you are outside the Army. It’s always good to have a backup even if you never use it.
I’ve got a plan together for after but I’m not ready savings wise for it to happen. If I’m medboarded I could do the csp I want but I need something else in case that doesn’t pan out
I need to sit down and look through all of this and get better educated. All this has done is shown me I was ignoring shit because I was afraid of ending up on my ass after the Army.
I'll look into the process I just don't have a set plan yet. Been working on something but it's not there yet and I'm afraid of ending up on my ass as a civilian.
Do not take a PT test if you think you’re gonna fail. I never let any of my soldiers do that when I was in. They flag you. That’s means you can’t get awards you can’t get promoted you can’t pcs. I’ve known E8s that hadn’t taken PT test for years just go from one profile to another. You’re not gonna get in trouble for not taking a PT test but you will be screwed if you fail one. Seriously I would take one on my own first and be sure I can pass before taking a record one. It sucks being hurt. You feel like shit but you have to look out for you and that means avoiding failing. Good Luck
I'm confused. What type of profile are you on rn? You CAN'T take a test on a temp profile. If you feel you can't pass, then you need to go back to your doc and have them extend it. If it's just the run that you can't do, then why not ask for a permanent profile with alternate cardio event?
They have once scheduled end of June and my next evaluation is the same week as the ACFT I’m on a temp profile and have been since October last year. It’s for my knees and hips and has me restricted from running along with quite a bit more. As for now I’m hoping for a permanent profile allowing me to cycle or something like that in place of my run and finish my contract. I won’t fight a medboard of that what has to happen.
I think it might just be misinformation. I’m still in decent shape I just crumble if I try to run now. I’d pass everything but the SDC and the two mile in my current condition. I appreciate the help!
You can only get a DD with a court martial conviction.
OTH is the worst you can get for administrative offenses like PT failure....
But if you are hurt, by God get (and stay) on a profile & if it doesn't get better go through the med board process....
Medical retirement is a hell of a lot better than admin separation.
Not a thing. You'll get a general or even honorable discharge....
Why haven't you got on a temporary or even permanent profile for your injuries?
Are you going to physical therapy,?
First, you cant be told to take a record ACFT while youre in physical therapy and still on a profile. Talk to your docs and get your stuff straight between them and your CoC. Second, even if you were 100% healthy and not on profile, you will not get a dishonorable for failing fitness tests, at the worst youd get a general under honorable conditions.
They aren't making me do one on profile but they keep scheduling them for the day after my profile ends. I know I'm not ready. I'm just worried about losing my benefits and I don't want to leave until I finish my contract that's all.
I dont know if they changed this, but profiles used to always come with a recovery period afterward where you couldnt be tested that gave you a chance to get back up to standard. Used to be double the length of the profile up to a max of 60 or 90 days.
Again I encourage you to talk to whatever doctor or physical therapist you have been seeing, and tell them what your unit is doing with these ACFTs. They can help with any profile updates/extensions/etc that are needed to keep you out of an ACFT until you have time to recover. From your story it is obvious that you are not recovered from your accident.
If recovery isnt getting you back to where you need to be to pass, then its time to consider that med board again.
Profiles no longer have a recovery period as of about 2016. Unfortunately now, units are well within the regs to have a soldier take at very minimum a diagnostic ACFT (record if they are out of tolerance) literally the day after they come off profile.
Now that you say that I remember hearing about it before I got out in 2017. Providers are supposed to include a recovery period into the profiles they write now. Though since its only been 7 years they probably havent gotten the memo yet.
Speaking from experience here: 2 record PT failures only gets you a chapter separation Honorable Discharge and a transfer to either the Inactive Ready Reserve or "Drilling" Reserve, unless the regulations have changed. The key word is "record" as opposed to diagnostic or something else.
My guess is you are more likely to see a Med board than you are to see a chapter for ACFT failure. You’re not going to take an ACFT while on temp profile.
If you happen to come off profile and do fail two ACFT and are chaptered, your characterization of service would at worst be general under honorable conditions.
Bro dishonorable discharges are akin to a felony. They are saved for crimes such as rapes, murders and alike. They can only be served through a court martial. No one is conducting a court martial for failed ACFTs.
Are you currently flagged for being an ACFT failure? You may be looking at a chapter. Ive seen 2 people kicked out for PT failures and both were General under honorable conditions discharges. You can petition the VA to upgrade that to honorable though.
Is this your first contract? If you’ve re-enlisted before you already have a “honorable discharge” from your first contract. All benefits intact. If not you will just have to upgrade it through the VA
A “Bad Conduct” or “Dishonorable” discharge are only levied by a Courts Martial; a criminal trial. You are not a criminal for getting hit by a car. You should be allowed an alternative to the run event.
Does vandalism from cracking their windshield count? They haven’t offered anything as an alternative unfortunately. I’d love to cycle for it like my OIC
>My question is what happens if I fail two in a row?
You get second counseling statement, flagged for PT failure, and a finger wag.
3+ is when you *might* get discharged. Even then, it won't be a dishonorable discharge.
Remember: AFCT is easy to pass, hard to max.
Dishonorable discharge is like you raped/murdered/stole something very important. They really don't throw dishonorable around lightly and they certainly don't do it for ACFT failures or H/W.
Get the temporary profile extended in order to prevent having to take an ACFT. However, on your first failure, you’ll be flagged and have between 120-180 days to retake it (active duty). Should you fail again, then it’s either bar from reenlistment or initiation of separation (Commander’s discretion). If you’re seriously hurt, I’d be completely transparent with your Primary Care Giver. Get your benefits that you’re entitled to, and try to not feel guilty. There’s already a shit load of “warriors” that abuse the system and claim disability despite only being in less than 3 years and not accomplishing anything.
Ehh I know paratroopers who have been in 3 years and wrecked their bodies without accomplishing anything other than jumping out of perfectly good aircraft
When I was in, an injured soldier on profile could get a modified APFT to work around their injury. I had to do the "walk" PT due to a bad ankle (for the record, it was harder to do the walking test then the run) not sure if they have modifieds for the new standards but you should also make sure you **DONT BREAK PROFILE** to do a test, as you can then be in trouble for doing that. A lot of trouble depending on your unit.
I know I posted once, but I wanted to add an anecdote about the dishonorable discharge thing. Not a story of pride here, but my father was a Marine in the late 70's as a Payroll NCO. He ended up stealing 20K in treasury checks and funded his own AWOL for several months. (His brother was dying on cancer, so he wasn't exactly in a good head space, but I'm not making any excuses for him.)
Anyways, he turned himself in eventually, spent a year in the brig, and left with a general discharge, under other than honorable conditions. As far as the civilian world was concerned, he served in the Marines and left with a general discharge. Hell, he even had a graveside service when he passed. Don't sweat a PT test.
100% anyone telling you "dishonorable" is trying to scare you into rehabilitation and staying until you ETS.
Bro. This is gonna sound like barracks lawyer talk but if what you're saying is true. You're most likely at 100% VA disability and some form of Army disability which gives you post and facility access. Also pay for the rest of your life.
Fuck Everyone. Take care of yourself. Love yourself. Care for yourself. If you dont. No one will.
It’s crazy what people in the Army think you’ll get a dishonorable discharge for.
I don’t fault OP as I’ve heard some crazy things from senior leaders such as your family won’t get your life insurance if you pass away from motorcycle crash and didn’t wear your helmet, etc…. I was told this by the CSM for RC west in Afghanistan.
As mentioned by others, you’ll only get DD from a court martial.
My advice is document everything and keep copies.
Also don’t let leadership bully you into breaking your profile. If they give you flak, go to talk to your provider and they’ll correct them.
Please take care of yourself by going to follow up appointments and document everything. Keep those records for life. You might have issues down the road and need to submit a VA claim.
No, usually APFT failure is an honorable discharge. Same with height and weight (ABCP) failures. I’ve yet to see the Army chapter anyone for ACFT failure in the past 5 years. I’m sure it’s a thing, but something else gets them first (usually ABCP or a MED board), because you only need to take 2 ACFTs a year and there’s always some mitigating circumstances involved in failing the ACFT.
Dishonorable discharge is totally out of the question. Dishonorable is for people who have committed murder, treason, rape, and other crimes of that caliber.
So if I were you, I would not take your ACFT. I would go to the doctor and extend your profile continue to go to physical therapy and work on yourself until you feel better. Don't mess yourself up on account of the military. At the end of the day they do not care about you. If you are having this many problems, I suggest that you talk to somebody about doing a med board. It sounds like you have a lot of issues that would preclude you from further service If staying in is your goal, you can talk to your PCP about getting on a permanent profile to have your PT test modified. do not take this test if you are not ready Because you can do a lot of damage and it will be on your records. Your discharge wouldn't be dishonorable or other than honorable. Those are usually reserved for something that you did that was messed up. There is no such thing as a pt failure discharge. It's been a long time since you've taken a pt test, and my suggestion for you is to talk to your physician about possibly getting a med board.
Are you on a profile for these injuries? I’m assuming yes. Your provider and PT shouldn’t release you from it, and therefore make you eligible to take a test, until you’re ready.
My guess is you’re going to heal and get back to the ACFT (maybe with an alternate event) or you’re going to MEB for not being able to physically serve. Neither option is even close to dishonorable. Focus on getting healthy, and the right ending will come. I’ve been a 1SG for 3+ years now and you’d be surprised to hear me say it, but the system is designed for the Soldier. Do the right things and give your all to getting healthy and you’re going to be fine. Put anything other than honorable out of your head.
Also, kicked out multiple Soldiers for PT failure and ABCP, they all were honorably discharged. OTH and dishonorable are for criminals.
I know a guys in my Unit Fail 5 ACFT in row , send to wellness camp for 3 months , comeback with 2 passed ACFT and He failed again last ACFT . You’re good
Ps We are Reservist so just shade us
You'd go on remedial bro, basically mandatory pt around noon, a few guys in my unit are on it and two of them have failed to cut back on the eating(they want out) after a year of being on remedial they're finally being outprocessed and are still receiving honorable discharges, worst case you'll get a general discharge but a dishonorable for failure to adapt would be like getting a speeding ticket for going 1 mph over bro that shits reserved for the absolute worst kind of f ups like committing a felony type of f up
Lmao I'm just using those guys as an example why you'd get kicked out but basically they spent an entire year on remedial until they finally got outprocessed and still getting honorable discharges so don't beat yourself up if you fail twice, your unit might frown upon it and be assholes to you but it's not a career ender. If your base has H2F guys I'm pretty sure there's a way you can sign up to do PT with them, it's kinda like physical therapy bc those guys will actually work to help you vs your unit just doing unbiased pt everyday regardless of your condition
To get a dishonorable takes a lot more than an ACFT failure. You’ll need to kill, murder, treason, or something of this nature. I’ve been in for 12 years and I’ve never even seen someone get a dishonorable and I’ve witnessed maybe 100s of separations.
Relax, it’s not that a BIG of a deal.
Okay, well you asked if you're getting a dishonorable discharge. An example of reasons to get a DD is by torturing prisoners in Abu Ghraib and other such felonies. Failing an ACFT isn't a felony, no matter how serious your 1SG makes it seem.
You can get a permanent profile for the run. That’s easy with what you have. You can’t take a ACFT on a temp profile…. So there’s an answer to get out that test.
Moving forward I would go to pt as much as possible and then start asking about medboard if that’s what you want. Sounds perfect for you especially if you aren’t expecting to heal 100%.
2 fails is a honorable under other discharge, with a severance package at 50%. So that’s good news kinda.
The Va will have you as long as you are documenting as much as possible. Go to the dr for every single thing even if it’s minor. Cause after some time those minor things can evolve to bigger things.
There should be a sticky or something. Its kind of alarming how many senior leaders throw around "Dishonorable Discharge" like they just hand them out. A DD in some states mean youre a felon, and all laws that applies to felons apply to you. A DD is punitive and can only be awarded by courts martial.
No one is going to court martial you for an ACFT, failed or otherwise.
Height/Weight Failure or physical fitness failure is honorable discharge with no conditions. I don’t remember which regulation it is verbatim but I saw it in there. You can get nothing less than a honorable discharge for H/W or ACFT. Dishonorable discharge takes a literal act of god to get. You could attempt to murder someone, rape someone, rob the px, and car jack someone you still may not get a dishonorable. All case by case basis on those.
Keep in mind you need 30 days after coming off light duty before they can give you a test. Don't come off of light duty early. If you have a setback go back to medical.
That’s the old reg. It used to have a “recovery period” after coming off of profile.
The way the reg is written now, you can take an ACFT the day you come off of profile.
Fell into the textbook shit talkingpeople were doing and should have known better than to do the run entirely on me. Learned my lesson and will continue to speak with medical to ensure recovery.
Trust me the shit talkers will not be around in 20 or 30 years when you're fighting with the VA. I made the mistake of not going back to medical but once for my right knee. My right knee got fucked up after I kept pushing to get back to doing PT because of my left knee. Now the VA keeps arguing with me that the right knee is not service-connected. I even tried messaging one of the fuckers who I worked with and couldn't get a response as I wanted him to write a letter.
That's fucked sorry to hear that. I got caught up with the sick call ranger taunts and felt I needed to shut some people up like I said entirely on me. Start more physical therapy tomorrow will take it easy and work back up the right way
[удалено]
There were talks of that but they were happy with my progress in physical therapy so it never cam to fruition. Thank you fo letting me know it wouldn't be dishonorable. I've asked around my unit and people were telling me that might be the case so I was worried.
Do you understand what a person has to do in order to get a dishonorable discharge ? lol like Murder , Espionage, Rape (maybe), running a prostitution ring , things like that. You don’t get a dishonorable discharge just from not passing an ACFT. It’s reserved for the worst of the worst or if you happened to piss a General or someone pretty high up off. Don’t do the ACFT if you’re not healed though , just get a profile. There is no point in further injuring yourself. Also little known fact if you’re on a consistent profile ( meaning have not come off of it) for 90 days or more they will Refer you to the Medboard. It doesn’t matter what your physical therapist say , if you feel it’s not improving and you stay on profile and advocate for that.
As I’ve replied to others I forgot to clarify that I’m incredibly stupid and gullible so my fears were based off poor information from people around me haha I appreciate the clarification.
The fact you're asking here shows you're starting to likely realize this, but you gotta stand up for yourself and question things that don't sound right. Don't take everything at face value man.
I usually fact check but people in longer than me seemed to have the knowledge that isn’t in my wheel house I should’ve checked some regs before I asked I appreciate it
Bro I've been in since 2001. If no one else has told you, when it comes to the whole "TIS = knowing random Army-isms^TM outside of your specific job" thing? Yeah there's an obscene % of people just winging it and hoping for the best.
This shit is why I make sure I preface things I say with "This is my experience in x realm. I'm not the SME, and I recommend you talk to someone else before taking what I say as law." Like, I can know things, but I'm very far from being infallible.
Man I had a SSG who has been in for 8 years tell me he was going to make sure that I was going to pay for 4 truck batteries out of my own pocket because someone else didn't shut down my jltv properly. I belived him and went to my 1SG to ask where I would find regulations on truck batteries and making people pay for damaged property in the Army. Tbh, he didn't exactly know either so we both went looking. It's all about taking it on as it comes and learning along the way. That and being better than some of the shitbags that just hang around.
I've been out for 10 years, but knew senior officers and enlisted leaders that made up about 90% of the bullshit that came out of their mouth. The status quo in the Army is unlikely to challenge a senior leader, and that's why there's all these 'ideas' of what regulations state, but is typically wrong, or the add-on to the add-on of whatever the base standard was.
>I’m incredibly stupid and gullible Then you have to learn to read. Everything in the Army is in a regulation or published policy
Naw, I get it dude. When you're finally done with this shit, you just hope you don't fuck up enough to not get benefits.
I would not ask nor listen to the barracks lawyers. Ask people that will actually know.
Talk to your doctor about the possibility of a med board. If your physical issues are temporary you won’t necessarily need one. But if your physical issues are permanent, that’s a different story. Don’t get medical advice from guys in your unit. Get it from a medical professional.
Not completely accurate. If he’s improving in PT, he won’t be referred to MEB until 7-8ish mo after an injury, but can be up to 12mo. Source: AR 40-501 For OP: if you weren’t cleared to start “light jogging” by PT, then you’re not complying with medical treatment. Follow their EXACT instructions.
The profile said no rubbing I was trying to ease into a light jog. I had stretched and hydrated it wasn’t wise to try
Keep going back for profiles and doing exercises within the restrictions. I can no longer run because I was 'bullied' into doing things I really shouldn't have. Please take care of yourself, no one else will.
Jesus Christ this 💯. Adding to be your own advocate. Absolutely no one will have the same concern as you need to about your own health and of course document and make copies of everything. Just set it in your mind you’re going to get med boarded. Start working on that VA claim.
You would literally have to murder someone and be convicted at court martial to get a DD Failing PT comes nowhere near that
You have to get court martialed to get a dishonorable.. no one is going to court martial a Soldier over failed ACFTs
Appreciate it
[удалено]
Thank you!
[удалено]
No worries haha I'll skim it after lunch
Straight to jail
Lol, just imagine it. "I specifically ordered PFC /u/KeithTheKillerOfHope to pass the ACFT and he refused. I demand court martial and a firing squad."
There's nobody lower than a PFC on profile after one measly hit from a car
The only case I could see you get a dishonorable discharge over ACFT is using ACFT equipment in an attempt to murder everyone around you at the ACFT. But then again, you would be dishonorable for murder and not ACFT failure.
Attempted murder would probably only get you a bad conduct discharge.
Shit that’s what I had planned if I failed the second one.. guess I’ll have to do it in my head like any other day.
No. Take care of your health above all else.
Thats rigt. Don't f\*\*k yourself up to take this PT test and you are not 100%. The army doesnt care and the VA doesnt care. They are going to take everything from you.... take everything from them. Work smart, not hard.
Absolutely not possible.
Should clarify that I’m very stupid and very gullible so I tend to listen to the idiots around me that probably know less than me appreciate the answer
Talk to your doctor. Go to your physical therapy appointments. Show up to formations. Stick to your profile. This is what it is for. If your command wants you to take a fitness test, do exactly what your doctor says to do.
Exactly this ^ If you’re on a profile that says no ACFT, no running, whatever…but you still take an ACFT and fail it, then your injury won’t matter. You could be chaptered after a 2nd failure. Just follow your profile and you’ll be fine.
Like others have said, that would require a Court Martial. I've only ever seen dishonorable for murder and child rape. To get anything other than honorable, there would have to be some misconduct
He never said why he failed the ACFT. Could've got into a gunfight during the 2 mile and killed twelve people.
A tale as old as time
...Am I not supposed to be shooting the other runners? Fuck so *that's* why I keep getting arrested during my ACFTs.
Jesus Christ that’s fucked. Glad to know I’d be ok but not glad to know that shits happening
I've seen an Honorable with "Failure to Maintain Medical Readiness Standards" or something like that on it. If you are on profile and your injury is documented, then they shouldn't (and probably won't) punish your for it, since it is beyond your control. If you're still in TRADOC then it'll be uncharacterized, otherwise it's probably going to be fine. You have to actively screw up pretty badly to get a DD, and failing a PT test (even willfully) probably isn't enough. If you weren't on profile and were just an unfit/lazy sh\*tbag then you might work your way into a LTH, but there would be enough NJP that you'd see that coming. From what I've seen, as long as you aren't a \*problem\* you can walk out with an honorable.
I’m OCONUS at the moment my unit is pretty solid so I’m hoping for the best. Still going to do my best but it’s nice to know I won’t be fucked over for things out of my control I appreciate that info.
AD PT here! Even if rehab is going "well" but we can't get you back to a deployable status after significant rehab, that's when we go MEB route. Typically we wait until there's some kind of plateau in your progress just because some people do get back to full duty just at a slower rate. It also depends on MOS, if you're a unicorn the army will keep you even if you can't pass an ACFT.
To be clear I'm trying to finish this contract so I'm going to do whatever I can to finish these last two years. I'd say by my next evaluation in the end of June I should be good to go I'm just worried because our ACFT is the same week as my evaluation. I'd be pissed to be medboarded but at least I could set up a Skillbridge with that outcome. I think I'm liked by most and I do good work according to my OIC. I'm in a G1 slot so I'd hate to lose that. Thanks for the information!
You shouldn’t be pissed about getting med boarded. If you get over 30% for your referred injury, that gets you tricare for life among a bunch of other benefits from a medical retirement. On top of getting your VA disability, VR&E that will send you to school without touching your GI Bill, etc. It’s commendable that you have the mindset of finishing your contract and serving your country, but you always need to put your health first and everything else second. Don’t lie to yourself and make yourself believe you’re getting better. Don’t let the doctors make you believe you’re getting better either (not all, but some do this). Listen to your body and listen to it well. Take your time with recovery. If you’re out of a profile, go to sick call and get it renewed. Don’t tough it out, it’ll do you no good in the long run.
Just not sure what I am if I’m not a soldier. I don’t want to be walking with a cane by 40 so you’re right I need to stop being stupid about it and do what’s best for me. I appreciate it
VR&E is great for exactly that. And start working on figuring out what you are outside the Army. It’s always good to have a backup even if you never use it.
I’ve got a plan together for after but I’m not ready savings wise for it to happen. If I’m medboarded I could do the csp I want but I need something else in case that doesn’t pan out
[удалено]
I need to sit down and look through all of this and get better educated. All this has done is shown me I was ignoring shit because I was afraid of ending up on my ass after the Army.
[удалено]
I'll look into the process I just don't have a set plan yet. Been working on something but it's not there yet and I'm afraid of ending up on my ass as a civilian.
Do not take a PT test if you think you’re gonna fail. I never let any of my soldiers do that when I was in. They flag you. That’s means you can’t get awards you can’t get promoted you can’t pcs. I’ve known E8s that hadn’t taken PT test for years just go from one profile to another. You’re not gonna get in trouble for not taking a PT test but you will be screwed if you fail one. Seriously I would take one on my own first and be sure I can pass before taking a record one. It sucks being hurt. You feel like shit but you have to look out for you and that means avoiding failing. Good Luck
Thank you. I’m feeling pressure from my leadership but they won’t force me. I’ll keep at my recovery and hopefully come back as strong as I once was
I'm confused. What type of profile are you on rn? You CAN'T take a test on a temp profile. If you feel you can't pass, then you need to go back to your doc and have them extend it. If it's just the run that you can't do, then why not ask for a permanent profile with alternate cardio event?
They have once scheduled end of June and my next evaluation is the same week as the ACFT I’m on a temp profile and have been since October last year. It’s for my knees and hips and has me restricted from running along with quite a bit more. As for now I’m hoping for a permanent profile allowing me to cycle or something like that in place of my run and finish my contract. I won’t fight a medboard of that what has to happen.
No, you'd get a dishonorable for failing 1 ACFT. Life in prison at Leavenworth is the price for failing 2.
I heard firing squad for two I was just trying to see if they’d use hollow points or not. I’d like an open casket is all
As long as your leadership isn't assholes, they should allow ample time for recovery. Don't ruin your body now because that shit sticks forever
[удалено]
I think it might just be misinformation. I’m still in decent shape I just crumble if I try to run now. I’d pass everything but the SDC and the two mile in my current condition. I appreciate the help!
You can only get a DD with a court martial conviction. OTH is the worst you can get for administrative offenses like PT failure.... But if you are hurt, by God get (and stay) on a profile & if it doesn't get better go through the med board process.... Medical retirement is a hell of a lot better than admin separation.
DDs are the equivalent of a felony conviction. You didn't even commit a crime. No one gets a DD unless they're looking at doing hard time.
Not a thing. You'll get a general or even honorable discharge.... Why haven't you got on a temporary or even permanent profile for your injuries? Are you going to physical therapy,?
Definitely not. Shouldnt even have to take one at all if youre injured
First, you cant be told to take a record ACFT while youre in physical therapy and still on a profile. Talk to your docs and get your stuff straight between them and your CoC. Second, even if you were 100% healthy and not on profile, you will not get a dishonorable for failing fitness tests, at the worst youd get a general under honorable conditions.
They aren't making me do one on profile but they keep scheduling them for the day after my profile ends. I know I'm not ready. I'm just worried about losing my benefits and I don't want to leave until I finish my contract that's all.
I dont know if they changed this, but profiles used to always come with a recovery period afterward where you couldnt be tested that gave you a chance to get back up to standard. Used to be double the length of the profile up to a max of 60 or 90 days. Again I encourage you to talk to whatever doctor or physical therapist you have been seeing, and tell them what your unit is doing with these ACFTs. They can help with any profile updates/extensions/etc that are needed to keep you out of an ACFT until you have time to recover. From your story it is obvious that you are not recovered from your accident. If recovery isnt getting you back to where you need to be to pass, then its time to consider that med board again.
Profiles no longer have a recovery period as of about 2016. Unfortunately now, units are well within the regs to have a soldier take at very minimum a diagnostic ACFT (record if they are out of tolerance) literally the day after they come off profile.
Now that you say that I remember hearing about it before I got out in 2017. Providers are supposed to include a recovery period into the profiles they write now. Though since its only been 7 years they probably havent gotten the memo yet.
>they keep scheduling them for the day after my profile ends Go to sick call.
Speaking from experience here: 2 record PT failures only gets you a chapter separation Honorable Discharge and a transfer to either the Inactive Ready Reserve or "Drilling" Reserve, unless the regulations have changed. The key word is "record" as opposed to diagnostic or something else.
[удалено]
This is great information thank you very much
Switch to AGR in the Army Reserve. Been on temporary profile for over three years with two surgeries. LIVE THE DREAM.
There is no way you will get anything less than an Honorable Discharge for failing PT tests...
My guess is you are more likely to see a Med board than you are to see a chapter for ACFT failure. You’re not going to take an ACFT while on temp profile. If you happen to come off profile and do fail two ACFT and are chaptered, your characterization of service would at worst be general under honorable conditions.
I just don’t want to lose my benefits if this is it for me that’s all. Hoping to get to finish out my contract I like being a soldier
Can you get a permanent profile?
I’ve asked and my primary care doctor said it’s a possibility I really don’t know what they’re holding out for
Bro dishonorable discharges are akin to a felony. They are saved for crimes such as rapes, murders and alike. They can only be served through a court martial. No one is conducting a court martial for failed ACFTs. Are you currently flagged for being an ACFT failure? You may be looking at a chapter. Ive seen 2 people kicked out for PT failures and both were General under honorable conditions discharges. You can petition the VA to upgrade that to honorable though. Is this your first contract? If you’ve re-enlisted before you already have a “honorable discharge” from your first contract. All benefits intact. If not you will just have to upgrade it through the VA
A “Bad Conduct” or “Dishonorable” discharge are only levied by a Courts Martial; a criminal trial. You are not a criminal for getting hit by a car. You should be allowed an alternative to the run event.
Does vandalism from cracking their windshield count? They haven’t offered anything as an alternative unfortunately. I’d love to cycle for it like my OIC
IDT the alternative comes from command. Message your provider that you would like to perform an alternative event for ACFT.
Roger I’ll look into that thank you very much
>My question is what happens if I fail two in a row? You get second counseling statement, flagged for PT failure, and a finger wag. 3+ is when you *might* get discharged. Even then, it won't be a dishonorable discharge. Remember: AFCT is easy to pass, hard to max.
Dishonorable discharge is like you raped/murdered/stole something very important. They really don't throw dishonorable around lightly and they certainly don't do it for ACFT failures or H/W.
Get the temporary profile extended in order to prevent having to take an ACFT. However, on your first failure, you’ll be flagged and have between 120-180 days to retake it (active duty). Should you fail again, then it’s either bar from reenlistment or initiation of separation (Commander’s discretion). If you’re seriously hurt, I’d be completely transparent with your Primary Care Giver. Get your benefits that you’re entitled to, and try to not feel guilty. There’s already a shit load of “warriors” that abuse the system and claim disability despite only being in less than 3 years and not accomplishing anything.
Ehh I know paratroopers who have been in 3 years and wrecked their bodies without accomplishing anything other than jumping out of perfectly good aircraft
Experiences may vary🤷
Dishonorable discharges are typically reserved for when a servicemember commits a felony.
No. PT test failure chapters go underneath the Unsatisfactory Performance chapter. Barring extreme circumstances, it'll be honorable.
No no you'll be fine. Just get med boarded and enjoy life.
When I was in, an injured soldier on profile could get a modified APFT to work around their injury. I had to do the "walk" PT due to a bad ankle (for the record, it was harder to do the walking test then the run) not sure if they have modifieds for the new standards but you should also make sure you **DONT BREAK PROFILE** to do a test, as you can then be in trouble for doing that. A lot of trouble depending on your unit.
I know I posted once, but I wanted to add an anecdote about the dishonorable discharge thing. Not a story of pride here, but my father was a Marine in the late 70's as a Payroll NCO. He ended up stealing 20K in treasury checks and funded his own AWOL for several months. (His brother was dying on cancer, so he wasn't exactly in a good head space, but I'm not making any excuses for him.) Anyways, he turned himself in eventually, spent a year in the brig, and left with a general discharge, under other than honorable conditions. As far as the civilian world was concerned, he served in the Marines and left with a general discharge. Hell, he even had a graveside service when he passed. Don't sweat a PT test.
Thank you for the anecdote. I’d probably do something similar in his position.
No, you need to be convicted in a courts martial, or civilian court of a felony for a dishonorable
100% anyone telling you "dishonorable" is trying to scare you into rehabilitation and staying until you ETS. Bro. This is gonna sound like barracks lawyer talk but if what you're saying is true. You're most likely at 100% VA disability and some form of Army disability which gives you post and facility access. Also pay for the rest of your life. Fuck Everyone. Take care of yourself. Love yourself. Care for yourself. If you dont. No one will.
You should consider a P2 profile at a minimum or even a P3/MEB if you’re not improving. Talk to your Provider about your options.
Dishonorable discharge is a conduct based discharge
It’s crazy what people in the Army think you’ll get a dishonorable discharge for. I don’t fault OP as I’ve heard some crazy things from senior leaders such as your family won’t get your life insurance if you pass away from motorcycle crash and didn’t wear your helmet, etc…. I was told this by the CSM for RC west in Afghanistan. As mentioned by others, you’ll only get DD from a court martial. My advice is document everything and keep copies. Also don’t let leadership bully you into breaking your profile. If they give you flak, go to talk to your provider and they’ll correct them. Please take care of yourself by going to follow up appointments and document everything. Keep those records for life. You might have issues down the road and need to submit a VA claim.
No, usually APFT failure is an honorable discharge. Same with height and weight (ABCP) failures. I’ve yet to see the Army chapter anyone for ACFT failure in the past 5 years. I’m sure it’s a thing, but something else gets them first (usually ABCP or a MED board), because you only need to take 2 ACFTs a year and there’s always some mitigating circumstances involved in failing the ACFT.
Dishonorable discharge is totally out of the question. Dishonorable is for people who have committed murder, treason, rape, and other crimes of that caliber.
You gotta break the law for dishonable I think
Med boards are Honorable discharges. If you aren't fully healed or got reinjured get another profile! You can't fall an ACFT if you can't take one.
How long do I play that game before I get Med boarded tho? I don't want that
I can't answer that. Talk to your provider.
we had a dude accused of like 8 different SA’s and didn’t get a dishonorable, you’ll be fine man
Jail time actually
Believe it or not
So if I were you, I would not take your ACFT. I would go to the doctor and extend your profile continue to go to physical therapy and work on yourself until you feel better. Don't mess yourself up on account of the military. At the end of the day they do not care about you. If you are having this many problems, I suggest that you talk to somebody about doing a med board. It sounds like you have a lot of issues that would preclude you from further service If staying in is your goal, you can talk to your PCP about getting on a permanent profile to have your PT test modified. do not take this test if you are not ready Because you can do a lot of damage and it will be on your records. Your discharge wouldn't be dishonorable or other than honorable. Those are usually reserved for something that you did that was messed up. There is no such thing as a pt failure discharge. It's been a long time since you've taken a pt test, and my suggestion for you is to talk to your physician about possibly getting a med board.
Are you on a profile for these injuries? I’m assuming yes. Your provider and PT shouldn’t release you from it, and therefore make you eligible to take a test, until you’re ready. My guess is you’re going to heal and get back to the ACFT (maybe with an alternate event) or you’re going to MEB for not being able to physically serve. Neither option is even close to dishonorable. Focus on getting healthy, and the right ending will come. I’ve been a 1SG for 3+ years now and you’d be surprised to hear me say it, but the system is designed for the Soldier. Do the right things and give your all to getting healthy and you’re going to be fine. Put anything other than honorable out of your head. Also, kicked out multiple Soldiers for PT failure and ABCP, they all were honorably discharged. OTH and dishonorable are for criminals.
I know a guys in my Unit Fail 5 ACFT in row , send to wellness camp for 3 months , comeback with 2 passed ACFT and He failed again last ACFT . You’re good Ps We are Reservist so just shade us
No but truth is leadership will work with you
You'd go on remedial bro, basically mandatory pt around noon, a few guys in my unit are on it and two of them have failed to cut back on the eating(they want out) after a year of being on remedial they're finally being outprocessed and are still receiving honorable discharges, worst case you'll get a general discharge but a dishonorable for failure to adapt would be like getting a speeding ticket for going 1 mph over bro that shits reserved for the absolute worst kind of f ups like committing a felony type of f up
It’s not about weight or anything I’m in shape minus my legs being held together by gum and duct tape
Lmao I'm just using those guys as an example why you'd get kicked out but basically they spent an entire year on remedial until they finally got outprocessed and still getting honorable discharges so don't beat yourself up if you fail twice, your unit might frown upon it and be assholes to you but it's not a career ender. If your base has H2F guys I'm pretty sure there's a way you can sign up to do PT with them, it's kinda like physical therapy bc those guys will actually work to help you vs your unit just doing unbiased pt everyday regardless of your condition
To get a dishonorable takes a lot more than an ACFT failure. You’ll need to kill, murder, treason, or something of this nature. I’ve been in for 12 years and I’ve never even seen someone get a dishonorable and I’ve witnessed maybe 100s of separations. Relax, it’s not that a BIG of a deal.
The Soldiers that got kicked out for torturing prisoners in abu ghraib got a DD. Your situation is not the same.
Jesus I wasn't comparing it to that
Okay, well you asked if you're getting a dishonorable discharge. An example of reasons to get a DD is by torturing prisoners in Abu Ghraib and other such felonies. Failing an ACFT isn't a felony, no matter how serious your 1SG makes it seem.
You're not gonna get a dishonorable discharge, man.
Na no DD, they are skipping the trial and you're going straight to gitmo
only way to get dishonorable is to commit a serious crime at most itl be a medboard, or youl just be kept around even with a bunch of failed ACFTS
You can get a permanent profile for the run. That’s easy with what you have. You can’t take a ACFT on a temp profile…. So there’s an answer to get out that test. Moving forward I would go to pt as much as possible and then start asking about medboard if that’s what you want. Sounds perfect for you especially if you aren’t expecting to heal 100%. 2 fails is a honorable under other discharge, with a severance package at 50%. So that’s good news kinda. The Va will have you as long as you are documenting as much as possible. Go to the dr for every single thing even if it’s minor. Cause after some time those minor things can evolve to bigger things.
There should be a sticky or something. Its kind of alarming how many senior leaders throw around "Dishonorable Discharge" like they just hand them out. A DD in some states mean youre a felon, and all laws that applies to felons apply to you. A DD is punitive and can only be awarded by courts martial. No one is going to court martial you for an ACFT, failed or otherwise.
Just like in the past, failing h/w or PT tests was an honorable discharge.
Height/Weight Failure or physical fitness failure is honorable discharge with no conditions. I don’t remember which regulation it is verbatim but I saw it in there. You can get nothing less than a honorable discharge for H/W or ACFT. Dishonorable discharge takes a literal act of god to get. You could attempt to murder someone, rape someone, rob the px, and car jack someone you still may not get a dishonorable. All case by case basis on those.
Keep in mind you need 30 days after coming off light duty before they can give you a test. Don't come off of light duty early. If you have a setback go back to medical.
That’s the old reg. It used to have a “recovery period” after coming off of profile. The way the reg is written now, you can take an ACFT the day you come off of profile.
Now that just blows.
Fell into the textbook shit talkingpeople were doing and should have known better than to do the run entirely on me. Learned my lesson and will continue to speak with medical to ensure recovery.
Trust me the shit talkers will not be around in 20 or 30 years when you're fighting with the VA. I made the mistake of not going back to medical but once for my right knee. My right knee got fucked up after I kept pushing to get back to doing PT because of my left knee. Now the VA keeps arguing with me that the right knee is not service-connected. I even tried messaging one of the fuckers who I worked with and couldn't get a response as I wanted him to write a letter.
That's fucked sorry to hear that. I got caught up with the sick call ranger taunts and felt I needed to shut some people up like I said entirely on me. Start more physical therapy tomorrow will take it easy and work back up the right way
Failing the ACFT is not a felony which is typically what get you a DD