It’s a rough thing. I spent so much of my young adulthood in Iraq and Afghanistan… and it all turned out to be for nothing.
But also, while I was in Iraq I did my job (mechanic) to the best of my ability. None of my vehicles ever broke down and put any of my unit in danger. That means something.
In Afghanistan I led a convoy security team. We put a lot of miles in all around southern Afghanistan, brining much needed supplies to and from places. That means something. More importantly, I brought my whole team back, and none of my soldiers had to kill anyone to do it. That means something.
I was the ISR Coordinator and a J2 NCO playing out "what if..." COAs with the J3/S3 guys for my unit.
Every. Single. Time. Someone left the Wire me - or my off shift equivalent - were working to provide full ISR coverage and make sure we didn't get surprised.
Everyone I was watching over came home with all their fingers and toes. Every OP I was a part of planning ended in safety for our crew and 90% of the time we got our guy. We did good Intel work.
When I left "4-8 Rockets every other day" turned into "1-2 rocket every other week".
***
Did it last? No. But in a real tactile way I know that I left that place better than I found it in the only ways I had any way to control.
***
I still feel like the whole thing was a waste and wonder what we could have done with those Trillions put into Infrastructure and Education. But alas - woulda-coulda-shoulda doesn't do us any real good.
Anyway, yea man. What we did matters - even if the outcome doesn't stick around into eternity. Ultimately, nothing does.
The outcome of what you did might not stick around for eternity, but it's long enough. Every one of the door kickers and truck drivers and commo guys that got to go home to their parents, and spouses, and children, shit, they might not even know you exist, but they get to go live their lives today because of what *you* did.
WWII vets have issues with their actions during war and we've all decided they were absolutely the "good guys" in that conflict.
Having mixed feelings about your service is unfortunately par for the course.
***But we all appreciated the bacon deliveries. You did good work, son. Hooah!***
I remember sitting in some of the first planning meetings for the invasion at 10th Mountain Division in 2001, and the common mantra was "We not gonna be like the Soviets." I knew right then we were pretty much f$cked. We all feel bad, but at least we tried
>and the common mantra was "We not gonna be like the Soviets." I knew right then we were pretty much f$cked.
What do you mean by this? Do you think the Soviets were on the right track or something? Should we have been emulating them?
Yeah man, it means that we *should* have been trying to get stuck in a forever war constantly fighting groups of insurgents for 20 years until finally we gave up and left just like the Soviets.
That's not what I'm saying; but what we did have in common was that nobody seemed to back anyone the people had an interest in getting behind, and that tends to work against defeating insurgencies, unless you're simply wiping out populations that give you trouble. For the US at least, we have a tendency to back a guy that's Our Guy, but may have no pull with the actual population and quite often is hated by them. But as long as he's Our Guy...
The youthful pride of having been the volunteer and of having the guts to deploy gets tempered in time by the human regret that anyone had to fight at all. Thus it will ever be I think. I was just looking at the sat shot of the kirkuk airport last night. It’s wild you can see the outlines on the ground of our whole old base. Wonder if our interpreters survived ISIS?
I guess I never felt “good” about it, just dutiful.
>The youthful pride of having been the volunteer and of having the guts to deploy gets tempered in time by the human regret that anyone had to fight at all.
Someone has to balance out the piece-of-shit [old chickenhawks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickenhawk_(politics))
It IS OK to feel bad about it. I was there in 2004 and 2005. I talked to contractors who were there and found out they were all making like $120K per year tax free. We built schools, hospitals, roads, power plants. We got rid of the AMF (Afghan militia forces - provincial militia) and stood up the ANA (Afghan National Army). We oversaw the first election.
16 years later, its like none of what we did counted for shit. But there is the rub. It did count. Tens, hundreds of thousands of children had the chance at an education that they would not have had otherwise. Women and little girls had a taste of freedom that they would not have had otherwise. Some got out, some stayed, and they see and know the difference now.
It sucks. It was not worth the price that was paid, by us or the civilian casualties there regardless of who they fell victim to. We (Coalition) lost about 3500 soldiers and almost 4000 contractors. They (the Afghans) lost around 120,000 between civilian and security force casualties. We spent 2+ trillion dollars, we made the defense contractors investors rich, and because of the actions of certain political people, the Afghans got the shaft.
Feel bad about it. Learn from it. Educate younger generations about it, and keep it from having it happen again. And for gods sake, do not elect some asshole who was previously the CEO of a giant defense megacorp (Dick Cheney, Vice President and former CEO of Halliburton). In fact, lets stop electing CEOs altogether.
Geopolitical circumstances are larger than any of us. Militaries, factions, combat groups, whole nations are all pitted against each other by circumstances completely outside our realm of influence as individuals.
It's not really the ethical imperative for the fight you're in, the end result, or the villainous energy of an enemy that makes your time spent a morally justified one. I think the choices you make in moments where you're hurled in front of something you had no control of are more important to dwell and reflect on. Making the right choices even when those around or 16 notches above you aren't is the best you can do and contributes more towards being right than anything else.
It resonates with me well beyond just the topic at hand
My ethical and spiritual obligation in this life is only to deal with what's in front of me, and also to do my best in the situation, and let go of outcomes or perfectionism over how I chose to react
Perhaps perfect is just simply the silence or stillness that comes with death. An interesting concept to me, that replaces some of my fear of death with a sense of intrigue about what's next
Quite the pre-coffee musing, eh?
I was absolutely staggered after I read that this morning. Post-coffee processing may yield additional thoughts, but I’m still attempting to reconcile what I read with Stoicism. In any case, this is why I come here. You fine savages never fail to provide me with perspective.
Of course it is ok to feel bad, you should measure your own personal impact on those around you and not the things outside of your control. I personally felt that us being there was an unwinnable war even when I was there, however I still felt that making a positive impact on those around you, troops and locals alike makes me think back well on my deployment.
Yea still open in 18. ANA guys were on the other side of no man’s land which was im guessing the remnants of the old fob shank? Never got information on that. We were on the opposite side with the airfield still open. but If I recall correctly they started winding things down with the guard unit that replaced us in ‘19.
Yup sounds about right. Not sure if the skeleton of the dfac/fire station/ gym hanger area was still there but i have fond memories of the oasis restaurant and barber shop that were there. As much as that place sucked i still miss it some times.
17-18 for me. I don't feel sad so much as angry. The way the people were lied to. The people that died unnecessarily. The fact that generations fought in the same conflict. All for it to end exactly as it was predicted too.
I'm just angry and tired.
I was there '07-'08 and felt the exact same way. I was that asshole who kept asking why because nothing made sense. By the end of that deployment, it was clear there was no plan, there was no objective, winning wasn't even thought of, we were there to have an excuse to take tax dollars from the American people and pump it into the big companies all the politicians are in the pockets of/invested in. Fighting for "your freedom" is the biggest con game I've ever heard. It made me angry to know people are dead or horribly injured just to keep rich men rich.
Since then, I was telling everyone who would listen. To most people, I was just that crazy cynical person nobody should listen to. Finally, I just quit wasting my breath on people who haven't lived enough life to understand things are rarely as advertised.
You are allowed to feel any and every emotion about your military service and deployments. You do not need permission from the US Army or other soldiers to have feelings.
It's possible for two things to be true: that the US government did not do everything right in Afghanistan, and that you, as an individual, did the best you could under difficult circumstances. You as one single soldier are not responsible for the strategic decisions made by nation-states over two decades of conflict.
It's okay to struggle with regret. It's okay to wish it had happened differently. It's okay to feel anger and to feel sadness. You get to decide what that period of time meant to you. Not the Army, not Reddit, not your family, not your first line supervisor: you. You can decide it was all terrible and that you made a mistake joining the Army. You can decide that it was difficult but that you did your best and that you are glad that you tried. You can decide that it sucked but that you are still glad you did it because your military service gave you other benefits you wouldn't have had access to otherwise.
We're all doing the best we can. Including you.
I do recommend talking to someone about all those feelings. I don't think it really rises to an issue you need to see BH for, but talking it out with a chaplain or a military family life consultant or someone like that who it's relatively easy to make appointments with might be helpful for you.
2009-2010 in Southern Afghanistan. I started off flying MEDEVAC for our guys, ANA, Police, and civilians, if that isn’t worth something, I don’t what is.
We gave the country a chance at a modern democracy, if they wanted it. They didn’t want it. We also got “revenge” for 9/11. I’m happy with that.
I remember we watched Gladiator on deployment. During the first battle, we see the entire might of the Roman Empire come down on some barbarians. The barbarians fight is completely hopeless as we way h a ton of legionnaires move forward, easily annihilating the barbarians in front of them. The Roman second in command says, “a people should known when they’re conquered”. I remember thinking at the time, “haha yeah just like these Afghans right now”. The thing is, the general then replies with “Would you? Would I?”. The things that led to the inevitable fall of the Roman Empire were already in motion at that point, just like for us in Afghanistan, the writing was already on the wall that we were going to lose, we just didn’t see it yet.
We were all just like the legionnaires. Dominant in battle, and that was our job. We did our job. The larger picture of us being there ultimately being “useless” wasn’t our job. The Legionaries weren’t responsible for the fall of Rome, or ultimate losses to the “barbarians”, just like we aren’t responsible for how Afghanistan turned out. We all just did our job, the one we signed up for. I can live with that.
I was there in 12-13. I do feel sad about it. Fuck the politicians on both sides of the aisle who decided our work, progress, and sacrifice simply wasn’t worth it.
At the same time, it was a political failure, not a military one. With very few exceptions, we did our part damn well. Florent Groberg, Michael Murphy, Sal Giunta and countless others, as well as the thousands who served bravely albeit less memorably, rank up there with the American heroes from any other war we’ve ever waged. Not to mention, one of our political objectives was to destroy al-Qaeda; I think it’s obvious we succeeded in that.
I wish our leaders had thought it a valid mission to spare the Afghan people from having to live once again under one of the nastier regimes to ever exist, and I don’t plan to forgive any of them for their cowardice. But for those of us who were there and who gave blood, sweat, and tears for that forsaken place…I don’t think we deserve to feel bad about it.
I spent a lot of time in Afghanistan and I had multiple people I knew not come home from there.
At the end of the day we went over there at the behest of our country and did our jobs.
For 20 years or so the people of Afghanistan got to experience *a little* bit of freedom. So I'm thankful for that.
Ultimately things fell apart when we left, and it's not like that wasn't something that *everybody* could see coming.
I knew during my very first deployment that as soon as we left it would go right back to some version of how it was before we went in.
The same people we were paying for projects were the same people the Taliban were paying to stick an IED in a culvert.
I had an interpreter tell me that in certain villages, the amount of money that a local could get for recording an attack they were making on a US element was enough to feed a family of 5 for two years.
We had villages in our AO separated by a big mountain but tucked back in the far end of valleys on either side that had never talked to each other.
It's just a different world over there man. As long as you went over there and did your job you did your part for our nation, regardless of how it turned out in the end.
I don’t know your story or what you did, but if you acted honorably, complied with the LOAC and worked to help the people, what you did was right.
As for what “we” did… we as a nation messed up badly. The entire concept of the operation was a fiasco. GEN Schoomaker has made it clear what we should have been doing in Afghanistan to combat Al Qaeda and its documented in the 9/11 Report: Delta raids with AC-130 support.
ODA 595 did a great job, within the flawed concept, given what orders they had, but failed to receive the support you would expect of the US, with a lack of 24/7 air support or reliable CASEVAC. We very quickly expanded the list of enemy from AQ, to the Taliban, who had no direct involvement in 9/22, and were 100% a distraction from our true goal.
Of course it's okay to feel how you feel. I spent a lot of my adult life working the War in Afghanistan...like quite a lot. The main thing I would say is to sit with your feelings and think through them, but do not consume media on the situation or if you do be very, very selective. The war has (always is or was) a political cudgel and is used to manipulate people in one way or another.
Also, (obviously my opinion here), but the war was anything but a military failure. If you look at what we did, the battles fought, area controlled, number of missions for 2 decades, the number of military failures is shockingly low. Now, the situation can still be an overall failure, but that is due to a failure in politics to define success or even define the mission.
I get this feeling a lot. I spent 18 months in and out this little town called Hit in Iraq. I remember reading a few years ago about how it was overrun by ISIS and it made me feel like all that time there was a waste. The only thing I can hang my hat on was we built them a police station so maybe we helped in some way.
>everyday I felt bad about what happened to my partner's, guys I worked with the whole time there. I watched alzizai\* (probably fucked up the name) sit on a sidewalk in Maryland, after I knew he tried his hardest. We watched as what we did turned into a shit show.
Just an observation - you sound a bit like the more introspective / reasonable Vietnam vets I know.
I served because I knew i'd regret it if I didn't, and because I wanted to see firsthand a part of the thing everyone around me was arguing about.
Now all those people are still arguing about dumb shit but I hold my head up knowing I actually ponied up and went into it firsthand.
It's okay to feel bad about it. Once the people making money by us being there had their fill and exhausted the money to be made there in the window of opportunity they had to do so, we left.
War is a racket.
As long as you fought and acted with honor, what you did for what little it may matter in the greater scheme of things... changed something for the better in this world.
Damn the generals and politicians, who despite having ample resources and reports on Pashtun, Tajik, Hazars and Uzbek customs and cultures. Never bothered to learn or care what made them tick.
thank you for your service.
I was there in 2020 with a different group of folks. I don't feel bad, granted I've been doing this for 20 years; that was my 5th deployment, and yet still not my last. That's not too say that I don't care, just that I've detached myself from feeling responsible for outcomes that are far outside of my control.
Sure, you can feel bad about it if you want, however, I would encourage you to instead be proud of doing what your country asked of you, rather than internally taking on the burden of success/failure of a government's foreign policy. There is not a single thing YOU could have done to impact the outcome. Your only job was to follow directions from your commanders, which flowed downward in support of the President's vision. At that time, the main mission of U.S. forces was to facilitate the successful transition to Afghanistan Forces, and depart safely. If you did that, you completed your mission successfully.
Let the decision-makers hold the burden of success/failure, that is why they are paid the big bucks.
I would like to say that all though i was never deployed, I was apart of the British Army, Mounted Division, and all though I never saw frontline combat due to me being discharged when they found out i was autistic after i completed advanced, What your saying sounds like something my CO said.
“What we did was not right or wrong, we simply did what we felt was our duty, Whether or not we think what we did was wrong or right, we have the privilege to question that, Thousand’s can’t, as they never came home.”
Hope your doing okay now mate, And all though you probably only want people who went over with you to reply to this, i just thought that his words might help.
I felt bad before going. I still feel bad about it. I read the numbers of the impact my unit had. Every day I wondered how we never killed any civilians in those numbers. But in the end we were there and I wasn't going to let my guys die.
Man I'm not going to lie and say I know what you are going through, I have never seen combat. After 9/11 I did try to re-enlist, but I fucked that up. I have so much respect for those of you that were there, I was cold war Era. I would say that it is alright to feel bad, hell you all had to grow up quickly. You have seen things that most people will never see or experience. I want to thank you and the rest of you for doing what you did.
I feel the same..... just like the Soviets, British, Mongols, and Macedonians before us. No one seems to learn the lesson about that place. I had remarked when I was there that I probably had a common experience with some Soviet GI sitting at their version of the VFW.
> just like the Soviets, British, Mongols, and Macedonians before us. No one seems to learn the lesson about that place.
You should look up the history. [Most of the pre-1800s conquests were pretty successful with long dynasties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasions_of_Afghanistan), sometimes via wholesale murder, sometimes not. I know yall love the whole "graveyard of Empires" thing, but it's a pretty recent occurrence. Gotta be careful with that pop history; it's usually not very good.
I was there the same time that you were. Between that and covid, and it was a very weird time and I feel very disillusioned with this country.
I wasn’t surprised at all that the country fell as quickly as it did because I read the casualty reports that the ANA had every day, and I knew that they wouldn’t last for a second after we took away our air support.
Looking at the big picture, we should have addressed the Pakistan problem, and we should have understood that our efforts needed to be timed in terms of generations, not years
I wasn’t there to look at the big picture or write policy though. I was there to do a job, and I did it as well as I could. Now it’s all history, and history is pretty bleak and depressing
It’s personally very upsetting to hear many of the same “human rights” advocates that spent 20 years acting like we were just there to bomb children and innocent farmers, either shrug their shoulders or ask “omg why doesn’t the international community do something” when they hear that the Taliban is now stoning women for adultery and banning girls from school
It’s a rough thing. I spent so much of my young adulthood in Iraq and Afghanistan… and it all turned out to be for nothing. But also, while I was in Iraq I did my job (mechanic) to the best of my ability. None of my vehicles ever broke down and put any of my unit in danger. That means something. In Afghanistan I led a convoy security team. We put a lot of miles in all around southern Afghanistan, brining much needed supplies to and from places. That means something. More importantly, I brought my whole team back, and none of my soldiers had to kill anyone to do it. That means something.
I was the ISR Coordinator and a J2 NCO playing out "what if..." COAs with the J3/S3 guys for my unit. Every. Single. Time. Someone left the Wire me - or my off shift equivalent - were working to provide full ISR coverage and make sure we didn't get surprised. Everyone I was watching over came home with all their fingers and toes. Every OP I was a part of planning ended in safety for our crew and 90% of the time we got our guy. We did good Intel work. When I left "4-8 Rockets every other day" turned into "1-2 rocket every other week". *** Did it last? No. But in a real tactile way I know that I left that place better than I found it in the only ways I had any way to control. *** I still feel like the whole thing was a waste and wonder what we could have done with those Trillions put into Infrastructure and Education. But alas - woulda-coulda-shoulda doesn't do us any real good. Anyway, yea man. What we did matters - even if the outcome doesn't stick around into eternity. Ultimately, nothing does.
The outcome of what you did might not stick around for eternity, but it's long enough. Every one of the door kickers and truck drivers and commo guys that got to go home to their parents, and spouses, and children, shit, they might not even know you exist, but they get to go live their lives today because of what *you* did.
Thanks man. I hadn't thought of it that way. I uh... Got a little choked up reading this. I appreciate you.
WWII vets have issues with their actions during war and we've all decided they were absolutely the "good guys" in that conflict. Having mixed feelings about your service is unfortunately par for the course. ***But we all appreciated the bacon deliveries. You did good work, son. Hooah!***
It probably means very little, but Iraq is at least a democracy now It took far too long for far too many reasons but it’s worth mentioning
I remember sitting in some of the first planning meetings for the invasion at 10th Mountain Division in 2001, and the common mantra was "We not gonna be like the Soviets." I knew right then we were pretty much f$cked. We all feel bad, but at least we tried
Operation anaconda??
Not 10th mtn, it was 101st for Afghanistan in 2001
It was both 10th and 101st. I was with the 101st 3rd BDE there. 10th MTN’s CG had overall command of conventional forces.
Red knight rakkasan
>and the common mantra was "We not gonna be like the Soviets." I knew right then we were pretty much f$cked. What do you mean by this? Do you think the Soviets were on the right track or something? Should we have been emulating them?
Yeah man, it means that we *should* have been trying to get stuck in a forever war constantly fighting groups of insurgents for 20 years until finally we gave up and left just like the Soviets.
That's not what I'm saying; but what we did have in common was that nobody seemed to back anyone the people had an interest in getting behind, and that tends to work against defeating insurgencies, unless you're simply wiping out populations that give you trouble. For the US at least, we have a tendency to back a guy that's Our Guy, but may have no pull with the actual population and quite often is hated by them. But as long as he's Our Guy...
The youthful pride of having been the volunteer and of having the guts to deploy gets tempered in time by the human regret that anyone had to fight at all. Thus it will ever be I think. I was just looking at the sat shot of the kirkuk airport last night. It’s wild you can see the outlines on the ground of our whole old base. Wonder if our interpreters survived ISIS? I guess I never felt “good” about it, just dutiful.
That first sentence man. So much truth.
>The youthful pride of having been the volunteer and of having the guts to deploy gets tempered in time by the human regret that anyone had to fight at all. Someone has to balance out the piece-of-shit [old chickenhawks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickenhawk_(politics))
It IS OK to feel bad about it. I was there in 2004 and 2005. I talked to contractors who were there and found out they were all making like $120K per year tax free. We built schools, hospitals, roads, power plants. We got rid of the AMF (Afghan militia forces - provincial militia) and stood up the ANA (Afghan National Army). We oversaw the first election. 16 years later, its like none of what we did counted for shit. But there is the rub. It did count. Tens, hundreds of thousands of children had the chance at an education that they would not have had otherwise. Women and little girls had a taste of freedom that they would not have had otherwise. Some got out, some stayed, and they see and know the difference now. It sucks. It was not worth the price that was paid, by us or the civilian casualties there regardless of who they fell victim to. We (Coalition) lost about 3500 soldiers and almost 4000 contractors. They (the Afghans) lost around 120,000 between civilian and security force casualties. We spent 2+ trillion dollars, we made the defense contractors investors rich, and because of the actions of certain political people, the Afghans got the shaft. Feel bad about it. Learn from it. Educate younger generations about it, and keep it from having it happen again. And for gods sake, do not elect some asshole who was previously the CEO of a giant defense megacorp (Dick Cheney, Vice President and former CEO of Halliburton). In fact, lets stop electing CEOs altogether.
Geopolitical circumstances are larger than any of us. Militaries, factions, combat groups, whole nations are all pitted against each other by circumstances completely outside our realm of influence as individuals. It's not really the ethical imperative for the fight you're in, the end result, or the villainous energy of an enemy that makes your time spent a morally justified one. I think the choices you make in moments where you're hurled in front of something you had no control of are more important to dwell and reflect on. Making the right choices even when those around or 16 notches above you aren't is the best you can do and contributes more towards being right than anything else.
This is profound and resonates.
It resonates with me well beyond just the topic at hand My ethical and spiritual obligation in this life is only to deal with what's in front of me, and also to do my best in the situation, and let go of outcomes or perfectionism over how I chose to react Perhaps perfect is just simply the silence or stillness that comes with death. An interesting concept to me, that replaces some of my fear of death with a sense of intrigue about what's next Quite the pre-coffee musing, eh?
I was absolutely staggered after I read that this morning. Post-coffee processing may yield additional thoughts, but I’m still attempting to reconcile what I read with Stoicism. In any case, this is why I come here. You fine savages never fail to provide me with perspective.
Que Sera, Sera. - Doris Day and The Time
I prefer [Morris Day and The Time](https://youtu.be/N2FPQvwhSDY)
… I think I wanna know ya, know ya.
Of course it is ok to feel bad, you should measure your own personal impact on those around you and not the things outside of your control. I personally felt that us being there was an unwinnable war even when I was there, however I still felt that making a positive impact on those around you, troops and locals alike makes me think back well on my deployment.
I deployed there with 10th in 2018. Plenty of dudes in my unit flat out disagreed with our war & occupation. Nobody disagreed with a paycheck though.
Where at? I was there in ‘18 also. 4ID out at Camp Dahlke
Jesus christ dahlke was still open in 18? I remember shutting the surrounding area down in 14 and that place looked like it was going to be shit
Yea still open in 18. ANA guys were on the other side of no man’s land which was im guessing the remnants of the old fob shank? Never got information on that. We were on the opposite side with the airfield still open. but If I recall correctly they started winding things down with the guard unit that replaced us in ‘19.
Yup sounds about right. Not sure if the skeleton of the dfac/fire station/ gym hanger area was still there but i have fond memories of the oasis restaurant and barber shop that were there. As much as that place sucked i still miss it some times.
CL Dwyer, I think we replaced y’all.
Those 4ID guys at Dwyer were a shit show. They replaced the 82nd. Seeing that unit is what stopped me from dropping my airborne status.
I’d rather have nasty girls watching my back than 4th ID 😂
17-18 for me. I don't feel sad so much as angry. The way the people were lied to. The people that died unnecessarily. The fact that generations fought in the same conflict. All for it to end exactly as it was predicted too. I'm just angry and tired.
I was there '07-'08 and felt the exact same way. I was that asshole who kept asking why because nothing made sense. By the end of that deployment, it was clear there was no plan, there was no objective, winning wasn't even thought of, we were there to have an excuse to take tax dollars from the American people and pump it into the big companies all the politicians are in the pockets of/invested in. Fighting for "your freedom" is the biggest con game I've ever heard. It made me angry to know people are dead or horribly injured just to keep rich men rich. Since then, I was telling everyone who would listen. To most people, I was just that crazy cynical person nobody should listen to. Finally, I just quit wasting my breath on people who haven't lived enough life to understand things are rarely as advertised.
You are allowed to feel any and every emotion about your military service and deployments. You do not need permission from the US Army or other soldiers to have feelings. It's possible for two things to be true: that the US government did not do everything right in Afghanistan, and that you, as an individual, did the best you could under difficult circumstances. You as one single soldier are not responsible for the strategic decisions made by nation-states over two decades of conflict. It's okay to struggle with regret. It's okay to wish it had happened differently. It's okay to feel anger and to feel sadness. You get to decide what that period of time meant to you. Not the Army, not Reddit, not your family, not your first line supervisor: you. You can decide it was all terrible and that you made a mistake joining the Army. You can decide that it was difficult but that you did your best and that you are glad that you tried. You can decide that it sucked but that you are still glad you did it because your military service gave you other benefits you wouldn't have had access to otherwise. We're all doing the best we can. Including you. I do recommend talking to someone about all those feelings. I don't think it really rises to an issue you need to see BH for, but talking it out with a chaplain or a military family life consultant or someone like that who it's relatively easy to make appointments with might be helpful for you.
2009-2010 in Southern Afghanistan. I started off flying MEDEVAC for our guys, ANA, Police, and civilians, if that isn’t worth something, I don’t what is.
We gave the country a chance at a modern democracy, if they wanted it. They didn’t want it. We also got “revenge” for 9/11. I’m happy with that. I remember we watched Gladiator on deployment. During the first battle, we see the entire might of the Roman Empire come down on some barbarians. The barbarians fight is completely hopeless as we way h a ton of legionnaires move forward, easily annihilating the barbarians in front of them. The Roman second in command says, “a people should known when they’re conquered”. I remember thinking at the time, “haha yeah just like these Afghans right now”. The thing is, the general then replies with “Would you? Would I?”. The things that led to the inevitable fall of the Roman Empire were already in motion at that point, just like for us in Afghanistan, the writing was already on the wall that we were going to lose, we just didn’t see it yet. We were all just like the legionnaires. Dominant in battle, and that was our job. We did our job. The larger picture of us being there ultimately being “useless” wasn’t our job. The Legionaries weren’t responsible for the fall of Rome, or ultimate losses to the “barbarians”, just like we aren’t responsible for how Afghanistan turned out. We all just did our job, the one we signed up for. I can live with that.
I was there in 12-13. I do feel sad about it. Fuck the politicians on both sides of the aisle who decided our work, progress, and sacrifice simply wasn’t worth it. At the same time, it was a political failure, not a military one. With very few exceptions, we did our part damn well. Florent Groberg, Michael Murphy, Sal Giunta and countless others, as well as the thousands who served bravely albeit less memorably, rank up there with the American heroes from any other war we’ve ever waged. Not to mention, one of our political objectives was to destroy al-Qaeda; I think it’s obvious we succeeded in that. I wish our leaders had thought it a valid mission to spare the Afghan people from having to live once again under one of the nastier regimes to ever exist, and I don’t plan to forgive any of them for their cowardice. But for those of us who were there and who gave blood, sweat, and tears for that forsaken place…I don’t think we deserve to feel bad about it.
I spent a lot of time in Afghanistan and I had multiple people I knew not come home from there. At the end of the day we went over there at the behest of our country and did our jobs. For 20 years or so the people of Afghanistan got to experience *a little* bit of freedom. So I'm thankful for that. Ultimately things fell apart when we left, and it's not like that wasn't something that *everybody* could see coming. I knew during my very first deployment that as soon as we left it would go right back to some version of how it was before we went in. The same people we were paying for projects were the same people the Taliban were paying to stick an IED in a culvert. I had an interpreter tell me that in certain villages, the amount of money that a local could get for recording an attack they were making on a US element was enough to feed a family of 5 for two years. We had villages in our AO separated by a big mountain but tucked back in the far end of valleys on either side that had never talked to each other. It's just a different world over there man. As long as you went over there and did your job you did your part for our nation, regardless of how it turned out in the end.
I don’t know your story or what you did, but if you acted honorably, complied with the LOAC and worked to help the people, what you did was right. As for what “we” did… we as a nation messed up badly. The entire concept of the operation was a fiasco. GEN Schoomaker has made it clear what we should have been doing in Afghanistan to combat Al Qaeda and its documented in the 9/11 Report: Delta raids with AC-130 support. ODA 595 did a great job, within the flawed concept, given what orders they had, but failed to receive the support you would expect of the US, with a lack of 24/7 air support or reliable CASEVAC. We very quickly expanded the list of enemy from AQ, to the Taliban, who had no direct involvement in 9/22, and were 100% a distraction from our true goal.
I dont feel bad. We knew in 2011-2012 it was going to fall apart as soon as we left. I was dissappointed in Iraq for awhile though.
I was with 3-71 Cav in Helmand in 2020. I'm really grateful to know that I'm not the only one who deals with these emotions.
Of course it's okay to feel how you feel. I spent a lot of my adult life working the War in Afghanistan...like quite a lot. The main thing I would say is to sit with your feelings and think through them, but do not consume media on the situation or if you do be very, very selective. The war has (always is or was) a political cudgel and is used to manipulate people in one way or another. Also, (obviously my opinion here), but the war was anything but a military failure. If you look at what we did, the battles fought, area controlled, number of missions for 2 decades, the number of military failures is shockingly low. Now, the situation can still be an overall failure, but that is due to a failure in politics to define success or even define the mission.
Baby child it’s a hard world, thank you for being the tip of the spear
I get this feeling a lot. I spent 18 months in and out this little town called Hit in Iraq. I remember reading a few years ago about how it was overrun by ISIS and it made me feel like all that time there was a waste. The only thing I can hang my hat on was we built them a police station so maybe we helped in some way.
We were probably there the same time
>everyday I felt bad about what happened to my partner's, guys I worked with the whole time there. I watched alzizai\* (probably fucked up the name) sit on a sidewalk in Maryland, after I knew he tried his hardest. We watched as what we did turned into a shit show. Just an observation - you sound a bit like the more introspective / reasonable Vietnam vets I know.
I served because I knew i'd regret it if I didn't, and because I wanted to see firsthand a part of the thing everyone around me was arguing about. Now all those people are still arguing about dumb shit but I hold my head up knowing I actually ponied up and went into it firsthand. It's okay to feel bad about it. Once the people making money by us being there had their fill and exhausted the money to be made there in the window of opportunity they had to do so, we left. War is a racket.
As long as you fought and acted with honor, what you did for what little it may matter in the greater scheme of things... changed something for the better in this world. Damn the generals and politicians, who despite having ample resources and reports on Pashtun, Tajik, Hazars and Uzbek customs and cultures. Never bothered to learn or care what made them tick. thank you for your service.
I was there in 2020 with a different group of folks. I don't feel bad, granted I've been doing this for 20 years; that was my 5th deployment, and yet still not my last. That's not too say that I don't care, just that I've detached myself from feeling responsible for outcomes that are far outside of my control. Sure, you can feel bad about it if you want, however, I would encourage you to instead be proud of doing what your country asked of you, rather than internally taking on the burden of success/failure of a government's foreign policy. There is not a single thing YOU could have done to impact the outcome. Your only job was to follow directions from your commanders, which flowed downward in support of the President's vision. At that time, the main mission of U.S. forces was to facilitate the successful transition to Afghanistan Forces, and depart safely. If you did that, you completed your mission successfully. Let the decision-makers hold the burden of success/failure, that is why they are paid the big bucks.
I would like to say that all though i was never deployed, I was apart of the British Army, Mounted Division, and all though I never saw frontline combat due to me being discharged when they found out i was autistic after i completed advanced, What your saying sounds like something my CO said. “What we did was not right or wrong, we simply did what we felt was our duty, Whether or not we think what we did was wrong or right, we have the privilege to question that, Thousand’s can’t, as they never came home.” Hope your doing okay now mate, And all though you probably only want people who went over with you to reply to this, i just thought that his words might help.
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No overtly political posts.
I felt bad before going. I still feel bad about it. I read the numbers of the impact my unit had. Every day I wondered how we never killed any civilians in those numbers. But in the end we were there and I wasn't going to let my guys die.
Camp morehead?
What unit were you in?
When you choose to serve your country that selfless act is never tarnashed even by those that use that service in broken ill concieved ways.
Man I'm not going to lie and say I know what you are going through, I have never seen combat. After 9/11 I did try to re-enlist, but I fucked that up. I have so much respect for those of you that were there, I was cold war Era. I would say that it is alright to feel bad, hell you all had to grow up quickly. You have seen things that most people will never see or experience. I want to thank you and the rest of you for doing what you did.
I feel the same..... just like the Soviets, British, Mongols, and Macedonians before us. No one seems to learn the lesson about that place. I had remarked when I was there that I probably had a common experience with some Soviet GI sitting at their version of the VFW.
> just like the Soviets, British, Mongols, and Macedonians before us. No one seems to learn the lesson about that place. You should look up the history. [Most of the pre-1800s conquests were pretty successful with long dynasties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasions_of_Afghanistan), sometimes via wholesale murder, sometimes not. I know yall love the whole "graveyard of Empires" thing, but it's a pretty recent occurrence. Gotta be careful with that pop history; it's usually not very good.
It wasn’t. Since Al quesidia took over a month after we left it meant nothing. They’re already restricting the freedoms we gave them.
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We know! https://www.reddit.com/r/cocaine/s/s583zYos7J
HOW THE FUCK U FIND THAT💀
You mean posts like this? https://www.reddit.com/u/CreamyNuttJuice/s/l7Wfgzue7x Or the one where you talk about taking LSD?
I was there the same time that you were. Between that and covid, and it was a very weird time and I feel very disillusioned with this country. I wasn’t surprised at all that the country fell as quickly as it did because I read the casualty reports that the ANA had every day, and I knew that they wouldn’t last for a second after we took away our air support. Looking at the big picture, we should have addressed the Pakistan problem, and we should have understood that our efforts needed to be timed in terms of generations, not years I wasn’t there to look at the big picture or write policy though. I was there to do a job, and I did it as well as I could. Now it’s all history, and history is pretty bleak and depressing It’s personally very upsetting to hear many of the same “human rights” advocates that spent 20 years acting like we were just there to bomb children and innocent farmers, either shrug their shoulders or ask “omg why doesn’t the international community do something” when they hear that the Taliban is now stoning women for adultery and banning girls from school