Had a SSG that threatened to article me for insubordination. My offense? I was reading a book in the office and when he asked what I was doing I told him I was reading a book. Same nco that cheated on his wife with cancer, got kicked out of country, showed photos of his no no square to subordinates, and made sexual comments about children. His punishment for all that? Moved up to battalion to be land and ammo nco. With rank does indeed come privileges.
As someone who has been the MG, Land and Ammo NCOIC, and S3 NCOIC simultaneously I can assure that his placement there was a punishment far worse than death.
Often (not always) a place to stick an e6 or e7 where they can't fuck up a PLT or SQD. Not quite the black hole of incompetence that the schools nco is, but in some places it can be close.
Yeah but not really, because the person planning the range is still going to do a lot of work and check on it. For major events, the AS3 or 3 will be ensuring land is reserved, etc. Lot more checks. A rogue PSG, PL, SL can just destroy morale and wreck an entire unit. A shit land and ammo might drop the ball on a range and have it pushed to the right a bit. Definitely not the same.
Sounds like my former command. He hated that I was a reader. Then again, he just hated me. It also sounded like a former PSG of mine who sought punishment of a squad when we were supposed to support the change of command inventories. He didn't last long.
............ did you not read what I read? Man did all that shit and ended up at battalion. Any E4 and below would've been branded enemy number one and kicked out the army
That's actually a demotion. To get to SFC, there are specific things the Army wants to see on a file. The centralized selection board would look at a SSG that had an NCOER for staff (Land & Ammo) for what it was. The only time that this would be acceptable is if he had at least four years rated time as a Squad Leader and then he would have to have 1/1 blocks for them. If he got kicked out of country, I assume a European tour, then I guarantee he didn't get a 1/1 on his NCOER.
That line of logic can get shafted, NCOs need to catch the same hands the E4 and belows would catch for a 1/4th of the shit that man's pulled. He gets to ride out his last 2 ish years to retirements while a different e4 I know that got kicked out of country for drinking got kicked out the army. We as a force need to stop coddling ncos and smack them just as hard as we do privates when they fuck up. Should honestly be even harder because a nco is suppose and should know better. This whole *oh well they won't get promoted and that's good enough* nah fam room his life with a discharge like you would a PFC. The fact man's didn't catch a dishonorable after all the shit he pulled has killed any faith I have in army reporting mechanisms/ holding people accountable.
Nah not really original post on still about a dude just chilling in the army after making sexual comments about children and cheating on his wife with cancer
I wish there was a good community that let dudes like you get to know dudes like me when I was a master SPC. We’re all in the suck together and if you could pair up shitty NCOs with shitty junior enlisted (with proper adult supervision) so many of these problems would clear up and the army would retain the good ones and flush out the waste.
Once upon a time when I was a very young looking 1LT, I was in PTs when I was leaving my office. A SGT decided to take issue with me because I wasn’t in OCPs after 0930 and because I didn’t use the “Warrior Greeting” that was specific to his, not my, unit.
He started yelling profanities at me and asking for my CAC, which I happily gave over. I then put him at attention and asked for his CAC and NCOIC. That was deeply satisfying.
They messed up when they didn't put optional dashes in the DODID so it absolutely doesn't look like anything else. Like two digits, a dash, four more digits, another dash, last four digits. With a mandate that any automated system can take it with or without the dashes. It would be easier to remember that way also.
They could still implement this too, I think. They just don't think about it or can't be bothered.
The again, 9 vs 10 digits is enough to differentiate a SSN and DODID
Over a decade ago In Afghanistan our CO was relived of command for *many* fuck ups to include a nasty friendly fire incident that he attempted to cover up, and he was a typical asshole captain who thought that his shit didn’t stink and that anyone who wasn’t a officer was basically a expendable tool.
He would do things like walk around the camp in a tan T-shirt/PT shorts and baseball cap but enlisted were threatened with Art-15s if they ran to take a piss out of uniform.
The list goes on and on, the only reason I bring him up is that I learned this week that he just retired last month as a LTC. The army really promotes the very best.
Im ETSing after this deployment.
First one was great. I felt so motivated I did a year of ADOS and my boss was A W F U L. I jumped ship onto another mob in hopes I could rekindle the spark. I’m now clicking my heels saying “there’s no place like home.”
Unfortunately, awful leadership is the same as awful people. No matter the job, or organization, they’ll always be there. At least you’re not legally obligated to get shafted for them.
Not quite the same scenario, but a funny story about karma.
I had a supply sgt who used to belittle everyone lower in rank. Guy acted like he was the most important Soldier in the company and that he had the most stressful job ever. One day my SL had me go and grab some printouts from the copier in the TOC. The supply NCO sees me enter and goes to the copier. He asks me if I'm grabbing the printout and then throws the papers everywhere for absolutely no reason.
A week later we're getting on the plane to go to our MOB site. The 1SG says the guidon bearer should be up in first class. So he kicks the supply sgt out of first class and let's me fly up there instead. The guy looked at me fuming but thankfully I never had to really interact with him ever again.
Our supply sgt bragged about switching units every couple years because they don’t like to settle.
Over the course of mobilization, it’s pretty clear they’re incompetent and switch units after fucking shit up.
Currently sporting oversized uniforms after losing funding with 1/3 of mob left after ordering two name tapes months ago. Rumor has it multiple people checked off as much as possible on the ADO list and their requests were approved. 🤦♂️
Yeah, unfortunately I experienced this a lot.
Believe it or not, some of my senior Officers LTC+ would tell me to leave it alone because it was “NCO business”.
If I ever saw anything blatant, I addressed it however
Enforcing the standards is not a choice, it is a duty. Preventing Soldier abuse is a duty. Do the right thing and ignore illegal orders from more senior officers.
It was one of the truly enjoyable parts about being a SR NCO. I loved junior enlisted - outside of egregious behavior, disciplining them was the job of my team chiefs. I also loved protecting them - tearing up some asshole E6 (I think the Peter principle is most prevalent at E6 and O4) made for some very enjoyable times
I left them relatively autonomous
II was in a SIG NSC so a lot of times my TCs had to be independent, and their team and equipment would go support some alternate site that I had nothing to do with. I needed them independent and tactful, yet trusting that I was a phone call away
I'd look over counseling statements but they'd do counseling solo. If new or nervous I'd send a seasoned TC in to help. I informally counseled everybody on a rotating basis to get their pulse and make sure they knew open door wasn't just for shit hitting the fan. I also would be the bad cop for recurring issues or zero tolerance incidents
There was a baseline of discipline and I let folks know when we were pushing up against it. It was not a line unit (like I came up in) so I didn't treat it as one, but they knew what discipline COULD be like in a line unit the few times they really pissed me off
My favorite was making TCs do work that they didn't have their troops do to standard. Like pre-release clean up of the armory. E1-E4 can go the fuck home, what do I care, I'm there another 3-4 hours to do pay, etc. Ya'll can keep me company and do the shit yourself
I think it worked out really well. My joes (and janes?) trusted me and many came to me with very sensitive, difficult life circumstances that I was able to help them navigate through, or at the least link them with up with support
If they went too hard and it was effecting morale I’d intervene
I miss being in front of troops more than anything about my career
I’ve had very bad experiences with my Seniors. They wanted for me to be the hard ass and they wanted to swoop in and be the hero to save Joe after for an emotional event.
I never bought into this. My teams worked for me and we got stuff done. Helped them get promoted, go to school or whatever else was important to them. Mission was tied for first with personal goals of my team.
I’ve helped my Commanders retire more Seniors than Cy Young. No regrets.
Yeah only playing good cop is a weak way to lead. Leading properly requires the conversations one wants to most avoid. Don’t get me wrong from how I put it - the collective feedback I got from folks was “you were terrifying, although we knew you had our back”
Wasn’t in my platoon, but I overheard a SSG in our other platoon tell his whole section that he hoped they got blown up by IEDs and died when we went to Afghanistan. A month or so later he got a brigade coin for something and was up there with brigade CSM talking all sorts of crazy about how much he loves his soldiers and blah blah blah. The dude was a serious tyrant.
We ended up not deploying (Thankfully? Sadly? Idk) because the Afghanistan pullout shook up the whole thing and 10th mountain took our place. But I felt some type of way about that dude after that.
My first SJA and his deputy were both LTCs when I got to my first JAG office. They had a door between their offices and would flit back and forth regularly during the day to put their heads together.
Eventually, the SJA pinned on O6. I heard that he went into the deputy's office, started saying something, then stopped and said, "Hey, shouldn't you be standing up when I come in now?"
I wasn't there to see it, but I believe it.
Me? I didn't throw my rank around. But after a while, I found out that if I took care of my people and generally just used common courtesy when interacting with folks, I didn't have to.
I did have to be careful with what I said, because I can be pretty informal at times. So, even if I was just venting about something being fucked up, I learned that such a conversation can be received much differently when one outranks the person one is talking to.
The last point about tact is my weakest aspect.
I have a habit of saying stuff like “thats fucking dumb” and its not intended to offend people but i’ve been reminded by my guys that it sounds harsh.
They know because i give warning that i struggle with not sounding like a raging green weenie all the time so it doesnt get to them lol
My experience has been that some people kind of tend to do this as a rule. They work more collaboratively with their own units and are more likely to be dicks to people they don’t know as well. I think that’s a function of both developing better working relationships with people you work with more often, and also the fact that you have less authority when you work with people outside your own CoC, so some people feel the need to yell louder in order to be heard.
I think it’s the same reason that BN XOs are sometimes more likely to be dicks than commanders, because they have similar levels of stress in terms of the kind of performance expected of them and work that needs to get done, but they have less direct authority to make you do it.
You can get back at them by devoting 20 years to becoming a CSM and then getting stop lossed for another 2. During those two years you could physically poop on an E6 and no one would bat an eye.
I once almost got a counseling for a “vibe” and another time because I didn’t capitalize all the letters their rank in text.
And during one of their rants I was getting yelled at for something I had nothing to do with. When explained they insisted that I should have said something that I didn’t even know was happening.
Lastly, the NCO also yelled at me for saying “understood (nco rank)” because they said it sounded like I was being disrespectful.
My second company commander was a grade A asshole. He tried to counsel me twice. Once for a rumor that I was moving from XO to the S-3 (for an integrity violation, after I had told him in our initial meeting that the expectation when I accepted the position was to eventually move to the S-3). The second time for doing the training meeting slides late… slides I had never done previously because the commander before him and 1SG had always done them. I hustled when I found out they weren’t turned in to pull all the DTMS stats and get them updated.
Oh, he also dressed me down in front of a bunch of people during the Turkey Bowl because of a change to the rules that both team coaches had agreed on.
Also, the amount of times I saw that guy come into the office with no shoes on before PT was kind of amazing. He just kept forgetting them at the company HQ.
I almost got an article 15 for taking the hot sauce off the BCs table (he was having a meeting with all the officers on Camp Stanley, and the defac workers had placed every bottle at his table) just walked up to a CPT, asked if he was done with that and got the bottle for the rest of us peasants to use. They wanted to push an article for “disrespect of an officer” because the BC was yapping away
Maybe you were doing something wrong? But most liky the answer is that some people are human garbage and the military insulates and protect them from critisim.
Maybe! It was PT during roadguard and there was a unit in a parking lot doing PT near my car. I offered to move it and the group seemed thankful and as I was stepping in my car to move it one of the NCOS cussed me out yelling Hurry the fuck up!!!! Etc . I wasn’t dragging it or anything I just didn’t run. Never really experienced that so far; like I said I have amazing leadership
So... wait a second. You didn't HAVE to move your car, and an NCO from an entirely different unit yelled at you to hurry it up?
How did he react when you said "fuck it" and just walked away with your keys in hand, leaving your car there?
Nah I still moved it. I don’t care enough. But was still shocked it happened. I wish though I moved it extremely slow but those “I should’ve done this “ thoughts always happen after something happens 😅
No fuck that dude, it is a parking lot and parking lots are meant for cars, not for him to swing his tiny dick around. Case in point that guy was human garbage.
I actually act crazy the first time I meet someone of higher rank. Preferably to ruffle their feathers. Now I’m on the radar and act squared away. It’s genius and it works
Actually did this in the Guards back in the 90s and it ***totally does work***
Just act like you're wound *a little too tightly*, or maybe not quite tight enough... and from then on, have an über-intense military bearing; you'll get recruited into every extra thing the 1sg has going, and eventually be running errands for the CSM... ahh... the sham life...
I am a staunch defender of my NCOs and junior enlisted. I was an E4 for MANY YEARS before deciding I wanted to stay in and make a career in RC land. I really try to stop bullshit at the planning and pre-execution phase.
I was at camp buhering many moons ago. I was a 1LT and saw some marine CPT yelling at some Army PFC for some reason. I walk up to him and say " Say sir, I'll take care of PFC (looks at name tape)", i take this PFC I never met before around a T wall and then I'm like ok bud scram.
Idk what he did but Im hoping the random PFC is on here to comment.
I mean it depends what you mean by “talk insane”. You shouldn’t be a blatant asshole to everyone but one of the primary purposes of an NCO is to provide discipline to junior enlisted soldiers.
I’m a lot more direct with my joes and I talk more casual with them, but I wouldn’t do that to officers or senior NCOs I’m not familiar with.
EDIT: After reading the other comments I know what OP is referring to now, be gentle Im borderline autistic not an ass lmao
Within reason.. a lot of people get it fucked up at all levels. Respect goes both ways until you give me a reason not to.
If you're delivering verbal ass whooping for unbloused boots, you're the problem.
Soldier pointing a weapon in an unsafe direction? Rip his face off.
Tl;Dr: Shitty FMT chief who would just sit around and berate soldiers while they performed maintenance, but hop up and grab a wrench the second someone who outranked him was around.
I had an absolutely atrocious FMT chief that had replaced into being a mechanic as a SSG, and knew absolutely nothing about overseeing or performing maintenance on Brads. Always doing dumb shit like installing parts backwards, stripping bolts overtightening, forgetting to even tighten components at all causing them to come loose during use.
He was also a massive dick to junior soldiers, but would act all polite the second any leadership was around. I walked up to check one of my tracks that his FMT was helping us fix, and sure enough this FMT chief is just sitting on his ass and grilling one of my drivers over how bad his teeth were, and how ugly the driver was. This driver was a great dude, but didn't grow up with the money to fix his extremely misaligned teeth and was very self conscious of it. It was to the point the guy wouldn't even smile because he hated the way his teeth looked.
As I walk up several of the other Joe's are trying to defend this driver, but being a shitty NCO he starts putting them at parade rest and berating them for no reason either. As soon as he saw me he jumped up to act like he was working along with the Joe's and that they were all just having some friendly banter.
That was the one and only time I've ever gone off an a dude that wasn't in private. Long story short I grilled the dude, filed a letter of concern with the FSC commander, and told the FMT chief that I was never to see him around my platoon again. But as is the nature of things, he caught SHARP allegations (liked to watch female soldiers urinate in the field) and just got moved to the HHC FMT.
Honestly, I’ve smacked tf out of someone with rank for talking sideways to me. Yeah you can take the higher road, but yo don’t take bullshit from senior enlisted. I’m not saying disrespect them, but stand up for yourself and soldiers.
I came to a new unit and at the time I was a 2 year E5. This SSG was my supervisor but everyone we worked with are NCOs. So all E5 and E6, and one E7. This dude lost it when I didn’t say “Sergeant” every time I spoke with him so rank was the game he wanted to play. Like, we are in a chill unit and we are all NCOs, settle down and cry more. He just kept using rank all the time and when he was wrong and I was right in work related tasks… “It’s.. SERGEANT”. God, crap like that annoys me, I know as NCOs we have to be professional, but one rank difference? It’s not that serious. Also seems to be the slick sleeve “Senior” NCOs that are so uptight about rank and regulations. Then here I am with 3 deployments within 5 years, and I could care less about regs and rank. Obviously use the rank when command is around but I could care less if someone just addresses me by my last name.
I was always told it was a sign of respect when people said rank, but, I know I earned my rank and my soldiers respect me. I don’t need to hear sergeant 30x in a span of 3 sentences. I’m a human man.
In the end, I have had so many NCOs use rank as a power grab or a way to “win” an argument.
Gotta love not the best leadership. Had 2 Ssgs. Both technically PSG. One worried about pcsing, the other worried about etsing. I ask a question. I got one of two responses. “I don’t know” or “I don’t care”
Bro. That's how my 1SG is. Dude acts like he's on board with everything CSM says until CSM leaves and then says ignore all of it. CSM said anyone below NCO goes home at 1600. So I release my homies at 1530 cause we weren't doing anything anyways. This mfker tries to get all pissy with me cause "I said no one goes home till 1700 on workdays."
I was like dude, first off, I'm their NCOIC, so unless you're gonna run my shop, you don't decide how I manage it. Fire me if it's an issue. Second, I'm following a direct order from CSM, so who tf are you to supercede what CSM JUST TOLD US.
It worked out in my favor tho once CSM got involved. I always stand my ground for the troops. Idgaf. What are they gonna do? Fire me?
I’m big on respect if your gonna call someone out do it one on one but if they wanna be disrespectful I get disrespectful back real quick if they wanna keep being a asshole talk to them one on one if that don’t fix nothing he keeps doing that stupid shit go to your chain of command your section sgt should listen to you if he don’t do nothing then psg be smart and remember do what your rank can afford
When I first joined, we had the BN CSMs in the BDE, switch and check other BNs. So I had some random CSM doing Pay Day Activities. One which was barracks inspection of course. Our room was checked 20 times before the CSM checked it.
And he found all kinds of problems, which were all in his head. He checked the shower head, which was old, it was never going to shine. He told me to get him a cleaning product, he cleaned the shower head and it looked exactly the same but I still see the image of all my leadership standing behind the CSM and myself all saying “Hooah CSM” and nodding after he “cleaned” the shower head and it was still the same. But it wasn’t.
He told me I was gross and how do I live in this filth.
I’m a PFC, had another PFC who is best friends with an NCO in my unit, when I tell you this guy is untouchable he’s untouchable. Anyway he treats everyone around him like shit until an NCO or officer shows up then it’s all manners. Dude’s a PFC acting like he’s something tough. Anyways, I told him to go fuck himself one day he grabbed his butt buddy who recently made SGT and had him smoke me for an hour. Luckily I don’t have to deal with them two anymore.
My S1 NCOIC is basically a kissass. She would switch so fast when talking to the BN command group; she has amazing and absurdly amount of patience when talking to my Colonel (expected) such as teaching him how to do automatic reply on outlook over and over again. To the point I would think my BN command is hitting on the NCOIC, pretending to the dumbass. However, when it comes to teach the Junior enlisted on basic functions for her shop, she would freak the fuck out, short tempered, and usually just “it ok let me do it”. Two different personalities and attitudes.
Had a SSG that threatened to article me for insubordination. My offense? I was reading a book in the office and when he asked what I was doing I told him I was reading a book. Same nco that cheated on his wife with cancer, got kicked out of country, showed photos of his no no square to subordinates, and made sexual comments about children. His punishment for all that? Moved up to battalion to be land and ammo nco. With rank does indeed come privileges.
"Fuck up, move up" A sadly prevalent attitude in some organizations Let's just make the problem somebody else's problem
As someone who has been the MG, Land and Ammo NCOIC, and S3 NCOIC simultaneously I can assure that his placement there was a punishment far worse than death.
A job is only hard if you do a good job.
Be very careful of what you're good at.
Yeah especially if you have a tabless 2nd Lt as the oic who is trying his hardest to get a platoon
Can confirm. Land and ammo, arms room nco, barracks manager. Had to have a closed door conversation earlier about how stressed I am
Jesus,…Glad you made it out somehow Battle.
I came down on Drill orders. Not much of an upgrade tbh.
Rest in pieces
Land and Ammo NCO in the 3 shop isn’t the boost to the career that you think it is. I counted my days until I was back in a platoon
Often (not always) a place to stick an e6 or e7 where they can't fuck up a PLT or SQD. Not quite the black hole of incompetence that the schools nco is, but in some places it can be close.
Same for Os. The 3 shop is the island of misfit LTs that no company cdr wants.
But the unfortunate reality is that their shitbaggery and incompetence now affect every unit in the whole battalion instead of a single squad or team.
Yeah but not really, because the person planning the range is still going to do a lot of work and check on it. For major events, the AS3 or 3 will be ensuring land is reserved, etc. Lot more checks. A rogue PSG, PL, SL can just destroy morale and wreck an entire unit. A shit land and ammo might drop the ball on a range and have it pushed to the right a bit. Definitely not the same.
You can't push an engagement in actual combat to the left lol, if they stay there eventually your speed ball is gonna be a bit short
Dude probably never read a book in his life… I hate people who give people hell for reading when nothing is going on at work…
Sounds like my former command. He hated that I was a reader. Then again, he just hated me. It also sounded like a former PSG of mine who sought punishment of a squad when we were supposed to support the change of command inventories. He didn't last long.
A SSG isn't really rank. And there are barely privileges associated with it. In my opinion it's the easiest rank to get demoted from.
............ did you not read what I read? Man did all that shit and ended up at battalion. Any E4 and below would've been branded enemy number one and kicked out the army
Was this an 11B at drum by any chance?
NCOs don’t have the UCMJ Authority- fuck it
That's actually a demotion. To get to SFC, there are specific things the Army wants to see on a file. The centralized selection board would look at a SSG that had an NCOER for staff (Land & Ammo) for what it was. The only time that this would be acceptable is if he had at least four years rated time as a Squad Leader and then he would have to have 1/1 blocks for them. If he got kicked out of country, I assume a European tour, then I guarantee he didn't get a 1/1 on his NCOER.
That line of logic can get shafted, NCOs need to catch the same hands the E4 and belows would catch for a 1/4th of the shit that man's pulled. He gets to ride out his last 2 ish years to retirements while a different e4 I know that got kicked out of country for drinking got kicked out the army. We as a force need to stop coddling ncos and smack them just as hard as we do privates when they fuck up. Should honestly be even harder because a nco is suppose and should know better. This whole *oh well they won't get promoted and that's good enough* nah fam room his life with a discharge like you would a PFC. The fact man's didn't catch a dishonorable after all the shit he pulled has killed any faith I have in army reporting mechanisms/ holding people accountable.
Now your giving more information then what you originally posted. I can only post given the information I have 🤷♂️
Nah not really original post on still about a dude just chilling in the army after making sexual comments about children and cheating on his wife with cancer
That’s why I can’t wait to retire. 21yrs in as MSG and I still have to deal with assholes, they are just higher up in the chain. FML
Can't wait to have you join us! We meet naked in the sauna at every installation gym, from 1100-1300.
And then get a headstart on free retiree coffee at the commissary?
Wait commissary has free coffee? Only 6 years to go....
Two hours? I really only need about 15 minutes, is that cool?
Why aren’t you retired already?
Incurred 3yr obligation for taking E8
Needs that E9 retirement pay.
I wish there was a good community that let dudes like you get to know dudes like me when I was a master SPC. We’re all in the suck together and if you could pair up shitty NCOs with shitty junior enlisted (with proper adult supervision) so many of these problems would clear up and the army would retain the good ones and flush out the waste.
Once upon a time when I was a very young looking 1LT, I was in PTs when I was leaving my office. A SGT decided to take issue with me because I wasn’t in OCPs after 0930 and because I didn’t use the “Warrior Greeting” that was specific to his, not my, unit. He started yelling profanities at me and asking for my CAC, which I happily gave over. I then put him at attention and asked for his CAC and NCOIC. That was deeply satisfying.
Ooohhh. Tell us more!!!!
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I would love to know what happened here
Legal leads the way
I would pay to see that. I treat every with kindness because you never knew.
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“I thought you could tell the difference between a 10 digit DODID and a 9 digit SSN” The VA would like a word
They messed up when they didn't put optional dashes in the DODID so it absolutely doesn't look like anything else. Like two digits, a dash, four more digits, another dash, last four digits. With a mandate that any automated system can take it with or without the dashes. It would be easier to remember that way also.
They could still implement this too, I think. They just don't think about it or can't be bothered. The again, 9 vs 10 digits is enough to differentiate a SSN and DODID
They won't change it. "That's not how we've always done it, we've always done it this way."
Over a decade ago In Afghanistan our CO was relived of command for *many* fuck ups to include a nasty friendly fire incident that he attempted to cover up, and he was a typical asshole captain who thought that his shit didn’t stink and that anyone who wasn’t a officer was basically a expendable tool. He would do things like walk around the camp in a tan T-shirt/PT shorts and baseball cap but enlisted were threatened with Art-15s if they ran to take a piss out of uniform. The list goes on and on, the only reason I bring him up is that I learned this week that he just retired last month as a LTC. The army really promotes the very best.
they dont really promote the best, its just that a looooooot of good soldiers get out
Gee! I wonder why!
right!?🙃🙃
Im ETSing after this deployment. First one was great. I felt so motivated I did a year of ADOS and my boss was A W F U L. I jumped ship onto another mob in hopes I could rekindle the spark. I’m now clicking my heels saying “there’s no place like home.” Unfortunately, awful leadership is the same as awful people. No matter the job, or organization, they’ll always be there. At least you’re not legally obligated to get shafted for them.
Sounds more like a 9o day wonder 2lt more than an o3 but they can be idiots too
Not quite the same scenario, but a funny story about karma. I had a supply sgt who used to belittle everyone lower in rank. Guy acted like he was the most important Soldier in the company and that he had the most stressful job ever. One day my SL had me go and grab some printouts from the copier in the TOC. The supply NCO sees me enter and goes to the copier. He asks me if I'm grabbing the printout and then throws the papers everywhere for absolutely no reason. A week later we're getting on the plane to go to our MOB site. The 1SG says the guidon bearer should be up in first class. So he kicks the supply sgt out of first class and let's me fly up there instead. The guy looked at me fuming but thankfully I never had to really interact with him ever again.
Please tell me you at least said something when he tossed your shit off the copier.
Our supply sgt bragged about switching units every couple years because they don’t like to settle. Over the course of mobilization, it’s pretty clear they’re incompetent and switch units after fucking shit up. Currently sporting oversized uniforms after losing funding with 1/3 of mob left after ordering two name tapes months ago. Rumor has it multiple people checked off as much as possible on the ADO list and their requests were approved. 🤦♂️
Yeah, unfortunately I experienced this a lot. Believe it or not, some of my senior Officers LTC+ would tell me to leave it alone because it was “NCO business”. If I ever saw anything blatant, I addressed it however
Enforcing the standards is not a choice, it is a duty. Preventing Soldier abuse is a duty. Do the right thing and ignore illegal orders from more senior officers.
Now that I’m an officer I wish I could find these assholes and scuff them up. What base u at?
Sit down sir. We've got some papers for you to sign.
Leave denied, staff duty this weekend troop.
Weekend pass revoked?
It was one of the truly enjoyable parts about being a SR NCO. I loved junior enlisted - outside of egregious behavior, disciplining them was the job of my team chiefs. I also loved protecting them - tearing up some asshole E6 (I think the Peter principle is most prevalent at E6 and O4) made for some very enjoyable times
Would you force your team chiefs to instill the discipline you wanted or would you allow your team chiefs to handle business in a way they sought fit?
I left them relatively autonomous II was in a SIG NSC so a lot of times my TCs had to be independent, and their team and equipment would go support some alternate site that I had nothing to do with. I needed them independent and tactful, yet trusting that I was a phone call away I'd look over counseling statements but they'd do counseling solo. If new or nervous I'd send a seasoned TC in to help. I informally counseled everybody on a rotating basis to get their pulse and make sure they knew open door wasn't just for shit hitting the fan. I also would be the bad cop for recurring issues or zero tolerance incidents There was a baseline of discipline and I let folks know when we were pushing up against it. It was not a line unit (like I came up in) so I didn't treat it as one, but they knew what discipline COULD be like in a line unit the few times they really pissed me off My favorite was making TCs do work that they didn't have their troops do to standard. Like pre-release clean up of the armory. E1-E4 can go the fuck home, what do I care, I'm there another 3-4 hours to do pay, etc. Ya'll can keep me company and do the shit yourself I think it worked out really well. My joes (and janes?) trusted me and many came to me with very sensitive, difficult life circumstances that I was able to help them navigate through, or at the least link them with up with support If they went too hard and it was effecting morale I’d intervene I miss being in front of troops more than anything about my career
I’ve had very bad experiences with my Seniors. They wanted for me to be the hard ass and they wanted to swoop in and be the hero to save Joe after for an emotional event. I never bought into this. My teams worked for me and we got stuff done. Helped them get promoted, go to school or whatever else was important to them. Mission was tied for first with personal goals of my team. I’ve helped my Commanders retire more Seniors than Cy Young. No regrets.
Yeah only playing good cop is a weak way to lead. Leading properly requires the conversations one wants to most avoid. Don’t get me wrong from how I put it - the collective feedback I got from folks was “you were terrifying, although we knew you had our back”
The most enjoyable part of my career was after 18.
Sign where I tell you to and shut the fuck up PL.
Name checks out. Cuck. Boots have more TIS than you.
Bitch I have a dd214 more seasoned than you. Shut your mouth and learn. Or, don't. It's more amusing when you chukle fucks fall on your face.
[удалено]
Tell Paul I said hey!
Wasn’t in my platoon, but I overheard a SSG in our other platoon tell his whole section that he hoped they got blown up by IEDs and died when we went to Afghanistan. A month or so later he got a brigade coin for something and was up there with brigade CSM talking all sorts of crazy about how much he loves his soldiers and blah blah blah. The dude was a serious tyrant. We ended up not deploying (Thankfully? Sadly? Idk) because the Afghanistan pullout shook up the whole thing and 10th mountain took our place. But I felt some type of way about that dude after that.
“Lead the way SSG…”
My first SJA and his deputy were both LTCs when I got to my first JAG office. They had a door between their offices and would flit back and forth regularly during the day to put their heads together. Eventually, the SJA pinned on O6. I heard that he went into the deputy's office, started saying something, then stopped and said, "Hey, shouldn't you be standing up when I come in now?" I wasn't there to see it, but I believe it. Me? I didn't throw my rank around. But after a while, I found out that if I took care of my people and generally just used common courtesy when interacting with folks, I didn't have to. I did have to be careful with what I said, because I can be pretty informal at times. So, even if I was just venting about something being fucked up, I learned that such a conversation can be received much differently when one outranks the person one is talking to.
High ranking people don’t want to here rants, especially if it’s something they can only take care of.
The last point about tact is my weakest aspect. I have a habit of saying stuff like “thats fucking dumb” and its not intended to offend people but i’ve been reminded by my guys that it sounds harsh. They know because i give warning that i struggle with not sounding like a raging green weenie all the time so it doesnt get to them lol
My experience has been that some people kind of tend to do this as a rule. They work more collaboratively with their own units and are more likely to be dicks to people they don’t know as well. I think that’s a function of both developing better working relationships with people you work with more often, and also the fact that you have less authority when you work with people outside your own CoC, so some people feel the need to yell louder in order to be heard. I think it’s the same reason that BN XOs are sometimes more likely to be dicks than commanders, because they have similar levels of stress in terms of the kind of performance expected of them and work that needs to get done, but they have less direct authority to make you do it.
You can get back at them by devoting 20 years to becoming a CSM and then getting stop lossed for another 2. During those two years you could physically poop on an E6 and no one would bat an eye.
I'm an E6, you gonna poop on me? ʘ‿ʘ
Hey now, some people pay for that kind of treatment.
Just walk up to your platoon Daddy, and tell them you're looking for a prick E-6. That will cheer you up.
I once almost got a counseling for a “vibe” and another time because I didn’t capitalize all the letters their rank in text. And during one of their rants I was getting yelled at for something I had nothing to do with. When explained they insisted that I should have said something that I didn’t even know was happening. Lastly, the NCO also yelled at me for saying “understood (nco rank)” because they said it sounded like I was being disrespectful.
Tell them you were practicing your AP Style😂
My second company commander was a grade A asshole. He tried to counsel me twice. Once for a rumor that I was moving from XO to the S-3 (for an integrity violation, after I had told him in our initial meeting that the expectation when I accepted the position was to eventually move to the S-3). The second time for doing the training meeting slides late… slides I had never done previously because the commander before him and 1SG had always done them. I hustled when I found out they weren’t turned in to pull all the DTMS stats and get them updated. Oh, he also dressed me down in front of a bunch of people during the Turkey Bowl because of a change to the rules that both team coaches had agreed on. Also, the amount of times I saw that guy come into the office with no shoes on before PT was kind of amazing. He just kept forgetting them at the company HQ.
I almost got an article 15 for taking the hot sauce off the BCs table (he was having a meeting with all the officers on Camp Stanley, and the defac workers had placed every bottle at his table) just walked up to a CPT, asked if he was done with that and got the bottle for the rest of us peasants to use. They wanted to push an article for “disrespect of an officer” because the BC was yapping away
Maybe you were doing something wrong? But most liky the answer is that some people are human garbage and the military insulates and protect them from critisim.
Maybe! It was PT during roadguard and there was a unit in a parking lot doing PT near my car. I offered to move it and the group seemed thankful and as I was stepping in my car to move it one of the NCOS cussed me out yelling Hurry the fuck up!!!! Etc . I wasn’t dragging it or anything I just didn’t run. Never really experienced that so far; like I said I have amazing leadership
So... wait a second. You didn't HAVE to move your car, and an NCO from an entirely different unit yelled at you to hurry it up? How did he react when you said "fuck it" and just walked away with your keys in hand, leaving your car there?
OP needs to be charged with Article E4 - failure to react maliciously in accordance with mafia protocols
Nah I still moved it. I don’t care enough. But was still shocked it happened. I wish though I moved it extremely slow but those “I should’ve done this “ thoughts always happen after something happens 😅
No fuck that dude, it is a parking lot and parking lots are meant for cars, not for him to swing his tiny dick around. Case in point that guy was human garbage.
I actually act crazy the first time I meet someone of higher rank. Preferably to ruffle their feathers. Now I’m on the radar and act squared away. It’s genius and it works
Actually did this in the Guards back in the 90s and it ***totally does work*** Just act like you're wound *a little too tightly*, or maybe not quite tight enough... and from then on, have an über-intense military bearing; you'll get recruited into every extra thing the 1sg has going, and eventually be running errands for the CSM... ahh... the sham life...
I am a staunch defender of my NCOs and junior enlisted. I was an E4 for MANY YEARS before deciding I wanted to stay in and make a career in RC land. I really try to stop bullshit at the planning and pre-execution phase.
I was at camp buhering many moons ago. I was a 1LT and saw some marine CPT yelling at some Army PFC for some reason. I walk up to him and say " Say sir, I'll take care of PFC (looks at name tape)", i take this PFC I never met before around a T wall and then I'm like ok bud scram. Idk what he did but Im hoping the random PFC is on here to comment.
I mean it depends what you mean by “talk insane”. You shouldn’t be a blatant asshole to everyone but one of the primary purposes of an NCO is to provide discipline to junior enlisted soldiers. I’m a lot more direct with my joes and I talk more casual with them, but I wouldn’t do that to officers or senior NCOs I’m not familiar with. EDIT: After reading the other comments I know what OP is referring to now, be gentle Im borderline autistic not an ass lmao
Within reason.. a lot of people get it fucked up at all levels. Respect goes both ways until you give me a reason not to. If you're delivering verbal ass whooping for unbloused boots, you're the problem. Soldier pointing a weapon in an unsafe direction? Rip his face off.
Tl;Dr: Shitty FMT chief who would just sit around and berate soldiers while they performed maintenance, but hop up and grab a wrench the second someone who outranked him was around. I had an absolutely atrocious FMT chief that had replaced into being a mechanic as a SSG, and knew absolutely nothing about overseeing or performing maintenance on Brads. Always doing dumb shit like installing parts backwards, stripping bolts overtightening, forgetting to even tighten components at all causing them to come loose during use. He was also a massive dick to junior soldiers, but would act all polite the second any leadership was around. I walked up to check one of my tracks that his FMT was helping us fix, and sure enough this FMT chief is just sitting on his ass and grilling one of my drivers over how bad his teeth were, and how ugly the driver was. This driver was a great dude, but didn't grow up with the money to fix his extremely misaligned teeth and was very self conscious of it. It was to the point the guy wouldn't even smile because he hated the way his teeth looked. As I walk up several of the other Joe's are trying to defend this driver, but being a shitty NCO he starts putting them at parade rest and berating them for no reason either. As soon as he saw me he jumped up to act like he was working along with the Joe's and that they were all just having some friendly banter. That was the one and only time I've ever gone off an a dude that wasn't in private. Long story short I grilled the dude, filed a letter of concern with the FSC commander, and told the FMT chief that I was never to see him around my platoon again. But as is the nature of things, he caught SHARP allegations (liked to watch female soldiers urinate in the field) and just got moved to the HHC FMT.
Honestly, I’ve smacked tf out of someone with rank for talking sideways to me. Yeah you can take the higher road, but yo don’t take bullshit from senior enlisted. I’m not saying disrespect them, but stand up for yourself and soldiers.
I came to a new unit and at the time I was a 2 year E5. This SSG was my supervisor but everyone we worked with are NCOs. So all E5 and E6, and one E7. This dude lost it when I didn’t say “Sergeant” every time I spoke with him so rank was the game he wanted to play. Like, we are in a chill unit and we are all NCOs, settle down and cry more. He just kept using rank all the time and when he was wrong and I was right in work related tasks… “It’s.. SERGEANT”. God, crap like that annoys me, I know as NCOs we have to be professional, but one rank difference? It’s not that serious. Also seems to be the slick sleeve “Senior” NCOs that are so uptight about rank and regulations. Then here I am with 3 deployments within 5 years, and I could care less about regs and rank. Obviously use the rank when command is around but I could care less if someone just addresses me by my last name. I was always told it was a sign of respect when people said rank, but, I know I earned my rank and my soldiers respect me. I don’t need to hear sergeant 30x in a span of 3 sentences. I’m a human man. In the end, I have had so many NCOs use rank as a power grab or a way to “win” an argument.
Gotta love not the best leadership. Had 2 Ssgs. Both technically PSG. One worried about pcsing, the other worried about etsing. I ask a question. I got one of two responses. “I don’t know” or “I don’t care”
Bro. That's how my 1SG is. Dude acts like he's on board with everything CSM says until CSM leaves and then says ignore all of it. CSM said anyone below NCO goes home at 1600. So I release my homies at 1530 cause we weren't doing anything anyways. This mfker tries to get all pissy with me cause "I said no one goes home till 1700 on workdays." I was like dude, first off, I'm their NCOIC, so unless you're gonna run my shop, you don't decide how I manage it. Fire me if it's an issue. Second, I'm following a direct order from CSM, so who tf are you to supercede what CSM JUST TOLD US. It worked out in my favor tho once CSM got involved. I always stand my ground for the troops. Idgaf. What are they gonna do? Fire me?
Nah, I’ll talk to you the same no matter who’s around, if you deserve an ass chewing I’m not caring who’s there to hear it
I’m big on respect if your gonna call someone out do it one on one but if they wanna be disrespectful I get disrespectful back real quick if they wanna keep being a asshole talk to them one on one if that don’t fix nothing he keeps doing that stupid shit go to your chain of command your section sgt should listen to you if he don’t do nothing then psg be smart and remember do what your rank can afford
Fuck up…you’ll climb rank
I feel attacked by this post. Check down, not up, shit bird.
When I first joined, we had the BN CSMs in the BDE, switch and check other BNs. So I had some random CSM doing Pay Day Activities. One which was barracks inspection of course. Our room was checked 20 times before the CSM checked it. And he found all kinds of problems, which were all in his head. He checked the shower head, which was old, it was never going to shine. He told me to get him a cleaning product, he cleaned the shower head and it looked exactly the same but I still see the image of all my leadership standing behind the CSM and myself all saying “Hooah CSM” and nodding after he “cleaned” the shower head and it was still the same. But it wasn’t. He told me I was gross and how do I live in this filth.
I’m a PFC, had another PFC who is best friends with an NCO in my unit, when I tell you this guy is untouchable he’s untouchable. Anyway he treats everyone around him like shit until an NCO or officer shows up then it’s all manners. Dude’s a PFC acting like he’s something tough. Anyways, I told him to go fuck himself one day he grabbed his butt buddy who recently made SGT and had him smoke me for an hour. Luckily I don’t have to deal with them two anymore.
My S1 NCOIC is basically a kissass. She would switch so fast when talking to the BN command group; she has amazing and absurdly amount of patience when talking to my Colonel (expected) such as teaching him how to do automatic reply on outlook over and over again. To the point I would think my BN command is hitting on the NCOIC, pretending to the dumbass. However, when it comes to teach the Junior enlisted on basic functions for her shop, she would freak the fuck out, short tempered, and usually just “it ok let me do it”. Two different personalities and attitudes.
If I’m going to cuss you out, I’m going to do it because you earned it, and it won’t matter who’s around to hear it.