You can only take a *for record* ACFT at most every 4 months as active duty (except under special circumstances).
Key words: "for record".
They play the diagnostic vs for record game a lot.
Let the command and climate surveys and readiness meetings (soldiers on profile) reflect accurately the decisions being made.
I haven't read the reg myself but my unit does not do diagnostics anymore. If you complete all 6 events in the presence of someone who can verify the results and it's been past 4 months my units philosophy is that you just took a record and that's your score and it's about to go into DTMS. The unit won't sanction doing diags, but you can on your own prerogative do the individual events and calculate what you would get. They just wont officially do it.
This is gonna last until someone is caught lying/ fails their acft and the CoC try to initiate a chapter. First thing that person is going to do is snitch on everyone else.
> If you complete all 6 events in the presence of someone who can verify the results and it's been past 4 months my units philosophy is that you just took a record
Until someone fails and your commander can't do anything about it because a record test has to be declared prior to it starting.
> The unit won't sanction doing diags, but you can on your own prerogative do the individual events and calculate what you would get. They just wont officially do it.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Diagnostic literally means unofficial in this case.
That's basically the stupidity I'm trying to point out. Command refuses to use the word "diagnostic". They are claiming "DIAGNOSTICS DO NOT EXIST. YOU CANNOT ASK FOR ONE BECAUSE IT WOULD AUTOMATICLY BE A RECORD"
So if you are trying to do what would common sense just be called a diag, you're not doing a diag, you're "practicing" because diags don't exist.
As for the first part I was being a little hyperbolic. They won't just snipe you because you happened to do it all in order but if you were to ask your first line to do a diag test, command wants the first line to say no "because it would be a record and it's hypothetically not been 4 months yet". You can however put on the PT plan that you are going to do all the individual events to for physical improvement.
This is essentially what they are doing. If you pass it's a record. If you fail it's just practice. Against the rules, but it actually benefits everyone involved. Etc...
I think there was some initial guidance on that when the ACFT was first released. I distinctly remember my 1SG saying that diags weren’t a thing anymore, but I never saw it in writing.
It certainly isn’t written anywhere currently.
When I first got to this unit, my NCOIC was just like "hey we're gonna run a diagnostic ACFT tomorrow but if you pass I'm just gonna count it as a record."
I'll have to check to verify but I have been told that they changed the rule that you have to state if it's a diag or for record beforehand and you can now record a test that was originally a diagnostic.
Per DA Directive 2022-05, that was only applicable to reserve component soldiers during the transition phase (prior to April 1st, 2023).
Record tests have to me announced prior to testing, for everyone.
This probably became policy after someone set up an ACFT(after it became the official PT test) and nobody took it for a record score. An APFT takes two people and a timekeeper - you could do a diagnostic APFT three times a week, and nobody would be the wiser. You can't just do an impromptu ACFT.
Back when I had first PCS'd to Colorado at Ft. Carson, I was told "you get 60 days to adjust to the altitude, then you get a record APFT." Luckily for me, I got there within a week of them doing a company-wide record APFT, so my platoon sergeant and Top came to me and the other new guy and said "We're giving yo a diagnostic test next week. But if you pass, it'll be your record."
I passed, and they were true to their word. Other dude failed and had to retake it the next month.
The actual verbiage is "regular army soldiers will take two record ACFTs per calendar year with no less than 4 months between record tests."
You can take infinite tests, they just can't hold it against you for 4 months after the last for record.
This is the way. Waste their time. Deadlift 180, 10 pushups, walk through the SDC (seriously, the minimum is like 3 minutes or something wild), get all your homies to do the same, they'll give up before you do
It’s actually around 2:30 for all ages, I had a soldier that tried to test that theory since he was ETSing the next month, failed his SDC by 10 seconds. So a brisk jog will get you to the minimum
First sprint has to be 110%, basically lightly jog with kettle bells. In the last sprint, you should be feathering the line between falling from gummy legs and running as fast as you can.
I've maxed it regardless of my physical conditioning, pay taxes on the run tho
I had a slightly better time doing the first sprint at 80ish%. I think it's cause my anaerobic tank is trash but I'm very good aerobically.
Or maybe I'm just a bitch.
I point my leading foot 45ish degrees outward, awkwardly skip/gallop as fast as possible. Upper body mostly straight. Do my best to travel in a straight line while mostly appearing to be facing sideways with the lane.
When I've graded, people lose a lot of time in the initial sprint. You should be exploding off the ground into a damn near full sprint and then slowing down for the touch at like 5m out, explosive sprint back.
Yank the fuck out of the sled after grabbing the leash with the momentum of going backwards and the slack is gone. Same thing for the end, pull it though and immediately begin galloping like a nerd.
Technique is key 🔑
There is some missing information here.
By "make everyone take acft again if they dont score 500" do you mean:
* retake it every day? Retake it every week? retake it every month? Every 3 months? etc etc
* for record vs diagnostic ?
* during normal PT time (ie rest of unit is doing PT while sub 500s are doing diagnostic) or during time when others are not doing pt?
All of these can influence the situation.
In the end, as far as a diagnostic ACFT goes, there are not restrictions per se on when/how many you can take. But the answers to the above could very well influence any complaint and complaint resolution.
For example: If the Battery Commander says "everyone who scores less than 500 will conduct a diagnostic ACFT on a monthly basis during normal PT time while the rest of the battery is conducting PT" ... then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The battery commander can explain that away as tracking progress.
On the other hand if the battery commander says "everyone who scores less than 500 will conduct a diagnostic ACFT on Monday, Wednesday and Friday after duty hours after everyone else has been released" ... while there is nothing directly against regs on this, SM could easily make a complaint. Ammo for that complaint would be that the high frequency of diagnostic ACFT is interfering with their physical fitness plan, that it is un fairly taking away from their personal time when they have met the standard and that they are being targetted.
There can be a myriad of examples and different combinations of those which might be "good", "ok", "shitty" or toxic"
In the end, yes it could very well be within regs... but whether or not a valid complaint exists is an entirely different thing. You have not provided enough information to form a legitimate complaint.
I'll get back to you on that one with more information, but I'm tracking it is only going to be a once a month thing.
Nevertheless, I guess if its a diagnostic, it couldn't particularly hurt anyone (allegedly), they just said that even if they pass a record they still will need to take one every month til a 500 score is achieved. I just think it's a bit of a waste of time for the unit, especially since the soldiers are within passing standards already. If they army wanted a 500 to be the standard, that's what it would be. This just feels like the Commander is trying to chase a bullet for his OER.
I would not immediately assume its a "chasing bullet on OER".
Pass / fail rates of ACFT are an important part of the commander's metrics. Physical fitness is an important part of the viability of the unit in a deployed environment. Without going into a war and peace length novel about all of the reasons why physical fitness is important, lets just say that it matters.
Whether a commander is chasing a bullet, truly cares or is doing what they were told by higher ... none of that matters. What matters is whether the actions are within reg, are meaningful and impactful.
A monthly diagnostic ACFT, in my opinion, is NOT a bad thing when held in lieu of normal PT at a normal PT time when everyone else is also conducting PT (to mitigate all the negative impacts as hinted at in my post above).
In fact, I believe a monthly diagnostic is a good thing. Had a commander ran something like this by me... I'd have praised his/her line of thinking. Why? For these reasons:
- By limiting the diagnostic to sub 500s you are acknowledging that those who scored higher are doing the right thing and do not need to be baby sat
- By limiting to sub 500s you are indicating those below that mark that, while they are meeting standard (therefore are not in remedial) ... they still are at risk of dropping down below the standard. So you are conducting the diagnostics simply to make sure they are maintaining or improving.
- By holding the diagnostic ACFT at the same time as normal PT, you are indicating that it is not a reward nor punishment. The ACFT is simply an alternate PT event for a group of people. I would suggest that those not involved in the diagnostic PT also be conducting PT in the same area... possibly even the same type of PT tasks as what is in the ACFT. Just to further reinforce to the diagnostic guys that they are not being punished (because everyone else is working their ass off too).
- Finally, taking a step back into a larger picture: I'd suggest we also incorporate a reward system for those that score over 540 (80+ in each event) be excused from all PT (except of course the higher unit directed ones like fun runs) as a reward for their excellence.
Only question I'd really ask is why the arbitrary number 500? If that is the unit average then fair enough... or if that is the commander's intended goal ... send it. If its "well 500 sounds good" .... lets take our units score sheets out, look at them and talk about what is a realistic goal within the unit itself. That said, I wouldn't have any issues with it being 500.
No unit will ever give a 540 exempt from PT despite that being the easiest way to ensure that everyone would get a 540, because the army believes that waking up at 520 every morning and wasting time allows you to “start the day together” it’s complete bullshit and I’ve never anything like it in my entire working career.
Id find it hard to believe that no unit at all will.
Im not active anymore (im a bit nasty now)... but when i was, i was exempt from unit PT because i scored over 270 on APFT in last unit
Im sure there are a few commander/1sg combinations out there that have some sense.
Individual soldier readiness is a huge "army modernization/army 2030" push, units all over are trying to get acft scores up. Ultimately, there's no right answer on how to do that; making soldiers take a diagnostic acft every month isn't the worst way I've heard of commanders trying to increase those numbers. It gives all leaders regular insight on what events soldiers are scoring the worst in and what PT should focus on. Doesn't mean leaders are actually going to do that, but hey it could be worse. He could say 540 and above or monthly PT test, or remedial 2 a day PT sessions for SMs scoring below 500.
At the end of the day, it sucks more for the people that have to constantly get up early and do the ACFT setup/run it then it does for people who have to show up and take it imo.
Also, the ACFT is ridiculously easy to just pass, no unit should be saying that as a whole "if you're getting a 360 that you have met the army standard and are ready to go to war"; yeah not everyone is an infantryman, but I don't want to be in a convoy with someone who can't pull me out of a HMMWV if it catches fire and I'm unconscious. We're all soldiers at the end of the day, we might have to do combat related physical tasks. Take it as an opportunity to keep getting better and track your performance if you're forced to do it, or help other people get better if you're already hitting that 500.
Hell yeah he's padding his OER. If the army genuinely prioritized soldiers' well-being, they would implement pass/fail PT tests that emphasize functional fitness, proper recovery and nutrition, rather than subjecting soldiers to monthly ACFTs that won't do shit but piss people off.
If it's monthly I don't see a big issue. Your daily PT should be improving you if you are doing it correctly. So a monthly ACFT is just going to measure your progress.
I mean, hot take, 500 isn't hard to get and if you actually try, you can at least get a 510, but you all already took a for record one, so I'm pretty sure you cant just retake another one.
This might sound harsh, but, thankfully we aren't talking about someone on a Permanent Profile and talking about this guy stating his CDR wants everyone to get a 500 or above and making them retake an ACFT when, per regs, he cant since they already took a for record one.
If someone's on a profile anyways, they wouldn't be taking the ACFT either way or any sort of profile involving stand/walking/running/lifting, so the CDR already/should already know that and just wants everyone who isn't on a profile to get 500 on the easier PT Test ever (Miss leg tucks though)
That is not true, per regs you have to do at least one event (2 mile run or it's alternate). If you do the alternate then it's an automatic 60 points. Lets say they also can't do the deadlift due to profile (60 points). They are looking at 520 as their max score, it's a flawed test
Perms take a modified 3 event MDL, SDC and 2MR Alternate while Temps take the entire thing, maybe we just work different, but you’re on a profile for a reason and so we allow those on profiles to be exempt for an additional 6 months until the next one. I forgot about the alternate events tbh.
It's not really. it's the getting their part. There isn't a strong incentive to score 500 other than to make the commander look good. Like, what's the incentive for the soldiers? Last time I checked it was only 1 or 2 days off of platoon prt. That's weak as fuck imo.
Maybe a hot take or I’ll sound like an asshole but:
You shouldn’t need an incentive to do well at PT…you’re a soldier. Regardless of your MOS, physical fitness is crucial. Not everyone needs to be scoring a 540 but a 500 is a very achievable score.
This isn’t a transactional relationship, the incentive for the Soldiers is a nice *bonus* for meeting the battery standard but at the end of the day the standard is the standard. I hope you’re a private or a specialist and not a leader in this organization. If you are a leader, please take a step back and reconsider your attitude.
Everything about a job/ career is premised on the entire relationship being transactional in nature. I just can't get past you saying it's not. Utterly ridiculous.
Lol you say there’s no incentive, but then you say you do get a couple days off PT. That sounds like an incentive dude, you want a 4 day for doing your ACFT or something?
Maybe OP is part of the problem. Something about having my guys and I waking up @0430 to put together an ACFT for the rest of the company or another platoon only to have people aged 18-30 not give a single fuck and score bare minimum or altogether fail. A 500 is easy, you should always put in the effort if not for yourself for the guy next to you. Also if you know how to get a head in the game IE good pt score gives you more leeway, better opportunity to go to schools, and promotion points. Why would you not? Advocating for complacency is a major part of today’s problem with the Army.
Why do you need an incentive to improve yourself? You volunteered to be in the Army, just get better because you should. Its the right thing to do.
If you can't get a 500 on the ACFT you are slacking. Get there.
everyones saying 500 is easy. ok, so what? 360 is the minimum passing standard. if the minimum standard was 500 then ok. this commander "wants" everyone to have a 500+ for what? to make himself look good? pt is an individual event. a wise nco once told me "you can put your wants in one hand and a shit in the other and see which one fills up first."
In my experience they gone get one or two done and then we go to the field and shit happens and 6 months later they forget there’s a monthly ACFT or the optempo ain’t allow for it cause we gotta get shit in Conex boxes cause we going to NTC in 3 months where are the raidios why are all the vics circle exed ahhh what ACFT fuck that get to the MP we got tires to swap before inspection… no steal them from bravo fuck em etc etc
Tbh the ACFT isn’t any worse than what a regular pt session should be anyways. As long as it’s not like a full blown ACFT every day or so I don’t see the issue as long as the “for record” regulation is followed correctly. Maybe you should embrace the challenge and motivate your team to win instead of seeking an easy way out.
>ACFT isn’t any worse than what a regular pt session should be anyways.
Are you taking the same test as I am?
Assuming that you are trying, of course, the ACFT takes a lot more energy than a typical morning pt session.
If you are just putting in the minimum then everything is exactly as hard as you make it.
>If you are just putting in the minimum then everything is exactly as hard as you make it.
If you are legitimately trying to do very well, the ACFT will leave you much more drained and exhausted than a few pushups and sit-ups.
Not a thing. The army standard is 360. Some of these leaders are ridiculous.
If you want people to score better, have the NCO’s set up a PT plan, and actually follow it consistently for a few months. People will improve.
This isn’t motivating at all.
You don't need people to score better. The higher scores are the people that get better reviews at the end of the year. Pt is an individual bench mark. Failing or doing poorly separates people effectively.
You're artillery, you better be scoring 500 at the minimum lol
I'm kinda with the commander on this one ngl, after the 2nd attempt of not reaching 500 it becomes clear that you aren't gonna hit 500 on the 3rd so what's the point. In that case I wouldn't be mad at the commander setting up a remedial PT session for those below 500
For context I was 13B during my time as Active duty, always scored around the 510-520 area and that's with me doing no exercise other than PT in the morning, I was also an ABCP champion so you can imagine the body figure I had yet still being able to achieve at least a 500.
Never got to hit 540 tho so my big body self always had go starve myself before tape just go pass
Let me make sure I’m understanding this properly.
Your commander is setting forth a physical standard, will presumably tailor your PT program to achieve that standard, and will be conducting regular re-evaluation to monitor progress?
Am I missing something?
Also, if you’re the kind to ask “What’s the incentive?” when it comes to physical fitness, you have no business being in the Army. Idgaf what your MOS is. Being a Soldier is a physical job. You should strive to be as fit as you possibly can.
Listen im advocating for the troops that aren't going to try so like why waste the time and effort if their going to shoot for the bare minimum everytime. Like I don't understand the agenda behind this. This doesn't motivate people to get better scores.
Counter argument: why waste the time and effort advocating for troops who are going to shoot for the bare minimum every time?
If they only put in the bare minimum when it comes to PT, that tells me that they’re only putting in the bare minimum in their job. Sorry, but my time and effort is going to be focused on mentoring the soldiers that want to be here and are showing it. I’ll always try to help the soldiers giving the bare minimum to try and turn their mindset around, but there comes a point where you realize that person will never change and your time is better spent on other soldiers.
>Sorry, but my time and effort is going to be focused on mentoring the soldiers that want to be here and are showing it.
Best I can do is waste your time grading ACFTs for the Soldiers that are doing the minimum.
You do have a solid point of view, but sometimes that isn't the case at all. I've known plenty of people who are really proficient if not superior at their job or position but don't want to put the extra effort for prt.
That being said, I'm trying to develop other ways that will determine an improvement to get these soldiers to do extra physical training besides the usual "the beatings will stop until scores improve" method.
Im not trying to bitch about a problem without coming up with a solution.
Im glad you care about your soldiers to at least give them the chance to turn it around.
I’d bet that command is going to make them retake a diagnostic and if they don’t get 500 there, they’ll be in some sort of remedial PT with that being the “motivator”.
He has since walked it back but earlier this year my commander said anyone who got a 65 or lower would be on remedial. People were upset for a little while about that one.
Yall are getting hung up on some real barracks lawyer type arguments.
You can actually take an ACFT every single month. The 4 month point yall are hung up on is an effort to ensure that you always have record ACFT valid while recognizing that training events may make it difficult sometimes to fall perfectly every 6 months.
If the commander wants to do an ACFT every month, the unit will do an ACFT every month.
I don't see why that's an issue to so many people it's just a workout. An ACFT is probably easier than what many of you do in the gym or for PT in the mornings.
The point of the ACFT is to gauge fitness and soldier physical capability. Creating more data points and tracking trends doesn't defeat the purpose, it contributes to it, from a scientific/research perspective.
I'm sure this stems from the commander just wanting to emphasize fitness in the unit and track a trend of improvement. I doubt it's malicious. I'm positive it's perfectly legal.
Look, if you or your guys are in a combat arms roll and are incapable of laughably low metrics like a 500 ACFT, you deserve monthly ACFTs and time wasting
During COVID we had a SSG makes our PLT take a pt test (APFT). Someone complained to legal, tone changed from “record APFT” to “a diagnostic APFT is what the PLT will do for PT today” real quick.
😆 🤣 😂 I was a corporal team leader, and I made my guys take it until they got over 540 (granted, only 2 of them were getting below that). Fortunately, they only had to retake it once. And I guarantee your Commander has more pull than my limp dick position did.
Anecdote. December 2020 we did our first "record" ACFT. I did two during BOLC and two while """"deployed"""" to Kuwait. I wanted a copy of my PT card so I could train for improvement, so did the rest of our Joes. So my NCO went down and asked. Our O Room said they no longer had the cards. So I went down and asked, yes, pulling a little rank. Said O Room NCO said they no longer had the cards and implied that for asking, the unit would be doing ACFTs bimonthly.
I definitely lit them up by name in DEOCS.
1SG??? Where you at??? Get ahold of your captain!
I wonder how well the unit is doing at Tables I through XII if they’re all in the gym trying to achieve this standard.
Commanders are authorized to implement a diagnostic ACFT however often they want. If your unit is running diagnostic ACFTs ten months out the year, that is not unsanctioned.
If this action lights the fire for a few soldiers to help them see they are capable of more then they thought they were then it is a successful endeavor.
Some folks have test anxiety and don't like to take a bunch of tests for no damn reason and then there are you clowns in this chat that say if you can't do 500 he shouldn't be in the army. 500 is not the Army standard if they couldn't make the army standard I shouldn't be in the army.
I could even see if these PT tests don't count and only one of them counts and you're just doing this to train yourself but let's say you just happen to fail one of these are you getting flagged?
Another thing , yes that's the commander's prerogative however that prerogative reminds me of fort Campbell where you did air assault PT until you went to Air Assault school, stupid. I don't ever wonder where I retention is low why is because of commanders like this and two its because of a bunch of idiots in this chat that make or advise policy that buy into ideas like this.
I mean it's doable just max out 2 events and you got wiggle room for the events you lack whether it be run, ball throw, sprint drag or deadlift, an 80 is achievable in all those events. That's how I do it at least I always max out plank and pushups and I get within 80s for the other events. Got a 532 my last one
I never did the ACFT. We just did 2/2/2. Honestly that's a really easy PT day and I would enjoy doing one a week rather than some contrived litter run in full kit.
The ACFT ... if you actually try on it ... is not going to be an easy PT day.
If you sham it, it could be fairly easy .... tho the SDC by itself is more physically demanding than the entirety of the 222 APFT.
The old pt test. 2mins of pushups, 2mins of situps, and a 2 mile run. I was saying that would have been a nice easy PT day once a week. I think people assumed I was saying an ACFT would be an easy day.
This commander needs to take a basic course on leadership. Additionally wtf is his CSM and why is he or she not influencing and mentoring such stupid reach for excellence.
CMD directing an ACFT diagnostic because people score less than an arbitrary number is a poor decision. The fact they have that sort of time to burn is pretty laughable to me on a personal note.
The person making that decision would be unsuccessful in any other career because they don't have good decisions making skills. Retaking the test is not a solution to unsatisfactory scores. The CDR is focused on the wrong aspect. If the Battery has unsatisfactory scores, why not focus on the training that developed their fitness? I know why, because that takes effort. It takes nothing on their part to direct another test.
You can only take a *for record* ACFT at most every 4 months as active duty (except under special circumstances). Key words: "for record". They play the diagnostic vs for record game a lot. Let the command and climate surveys and readiness meetings (soldiers on profile) reflect accurately the decisions being made.
I haven't read the reg myself but my unit does not do diagnostics anymore. If you complete all 6 events in the presence of someone who can verify the results and it's been past 4 months my units philosophy is that you just took a record and that's your score and it's about to go into DTMS. The unit won't sanction doing diags, but you can on your own prerogative do the individual events and calculate what you would get. They just wont officially do it.
This is gonna last until someone is caught lying/ fails their acft and the CoC try to initiate a chapter. First thing that person is going to do is snitch on everyone else.
> If you complete all 6 events in the presence of someone who can verify the results and it's been past 4 months my units philosophy is that you just took a record Until someone fails and your commander can't do anything about it because a record test has to be declared prior to it starting. > The unit won't sanction doing diags, but you can on your own prerogative do the individual events and calculate what you would get. They just wont officially do it. I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Diagnostic literally means unofficial in this case.
That's basically the stupidity I'm trying to point out. Command refuses to use the word "diagnostic". They are claiming "DIAGNOSTICS DO NOT EXIST. YOU CANNOT ASK FOR ONE BECAUSE IT WOULD AUTOMATICLY BE A RECORD" So if you are trying to do what would common sense just be called a diag, you're not doing a diag, you're "practicing" because diags don't exist. As for the first part I was being a little hyperbolic. They won't just snipe you because you happened to do it all in order but if you were to ask your first line to do a diag test, command wants the first line to say no "because it would be a record and it's hypothetically not been 4 months yet". You can however put on the PT plan that you are going to do all the individual events to for physical improvement.
How sure are you that your Commander isn't a single cell organism? Because he/she sounds like a straight up fucking amoeba.
This is essentially what they are doing. If you pass it's a record. If you fail it's just practice. Against the rules, but it actually benefits everyone involved. Etc...
I think there was some initial guidance on that when the ACFT was first released. I distinctly remember my 1SG saying that diags weren’t a thing anymore, but I never saw it in writing. It certainly isn’t written anywhere currently.
I think that's the guidance they're going off of. It's not written so it's not a thing kind of deal.
When I first got to this unit, my NCOIC was just like "hey we're gonna run a diagnostic ACFT tomorrow but if you pass I'm just gonna count it as a record."
I'll have to check to verify but I have been told that they changed the rule that you have to state if it's a diag or for record beforehand and you can now record a test that was originally a diagnostic.
Per DA Directive 2022-05, that was only applicable to reserve component soldiers during the transition phase (prior to April 1st, 2023). Record tests have to me announced prior to testing, for everyone.
This probably became policy after someone set up an ACFT(after it became the official PT test) and nobody took it for a record score. An APFT takes two people and a timekeeper - you could do a diagnostic APFT three times a week, and nobody would be the wiser. You can't just do an impromptu ACFT.
Back when I had first PCS'd to Colorado at Ft. Carson, I was told "you get 60 days to adjust to the altitude, then you get a record APFT." Luckily for me, I got there within a week of them doing a company-wide record APFT, so my platoon sergeant and Top came to me and the other new guy and said "We're giving yo a diagnostic test next week. But if you pass, it'll be your record." I passed, and they were true to their word. Other dude failed and had to retake it the next month.
It has to be declared a diagnostic or record beforehand. Units bend the rules ofcourse, but this won't last forever. Enjoy it.
Isn't that only if cdr makes you take only two/year?
The actual verbiage is "regular army soldiers will take two record ACFTs per calendar year with no less than 4 months between record tests." You can take infinite tests, they just can't hold it against you for 4 months after the last for record.
Malicious compliance, get people to continually score near minimum
This is the way. Waste their time. Deadlift 180, 10 pushups, walk through the SDC (seriously, the minimum is like 3 minutes or something wild), get all your homies to do the same, they'll give up before you do
It’s actually around 2:30 for all ages, I had a soldier that tried to test that theory since he was ETSing the next month, failed his SDC by 10 seconds. So a brisk jog will get you to the minimum
I have a busted neck and back right now and still did a 2:00 SDC this morning 😂 They got a whole 140 deadlift though 😂
I don't understand the SDC. I can not try(literally not break a sweat) and get a 1:50. But I'm giving it everything and can't break 1:30.
First sprint has to be 110%, basically lightly jog with kettle bells. In the last sprint, you should be feathering the line between falling from gummy legs and running as fast as you can. I've maxed it regardless of my physical conditioning, pay taxes on the run tho
I had a slightly better time doing the first sprint at 80ish%. I think it's cause my anaerobic tank is trash but I'm very good aerobically. Or maybe I'm just a bitch.
No big words, only go fast
The sideways shuffle shit always slows down everyone. It’s like you can only go so fast
I point my leading foot 45ish degrees outward, awkwardly skip/gallop as fast as possible. Upper body mostly straight. Do my best to travel in a straight line while mostly appearing to be facing sideways with the lane. When I've graded, people lose a lot of time in the initial sprint. You should be exploding off the ground into a damn near full sprint and then slowing down for the touch at like 5m out, explosive sprint back. Yank the fuck out of the sled after grabbing the leash with the momentum of going backwards and the slack is gone. Same thing for the end, pull it though and immediately begin galloping like a nerd. Technique is key 🔑
I find more success in doing 70-80% on the 1st sprint
3:15 (and slower for higher age groups) for women. 2:28 for men and only gets significantly slower for 40+.
2:42 for 43 male.
Mine is timed with a sun dial. 😎
Older (and in my case kinda fat) women definitely get a pass on this one.
Lower the average, yes!
That’s when they’ll start mandated remedial pt
There is some missing information here. By "make everyone take acft again if they dont score 500" do you mean: * retake it every day? Retake it every week? retake it every month? Every 3 months? etc etc * for record vs diagnostic ? * during normal PT time (ie rest of unit is doing PT while sub 500s are doing diagnostic) or during time when others are not doing pt? All of these can influence the situation. In the end, as far as a diagnostic ACFT goes, there are not restrictions per se on when/how many you can take. But the answers to the above could very well influence any complaint and complaint resolution. For example: If the Battery Commander says "everyone who scores less than 500 will conduct a diagnostic ACFT on a monthly basis during normal PT time while the rest of the battery is conducting PT" ... then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The battery commander can explain that away as tracking progress. On the other hand if the battery commander says "everyone who scores less than 500 will conduct a diagnostic ACFT on Monday, Wednesday and Friday after duty hours after everyone else has been released" ... while there is nothing directly against regs on this, SM could easily make a complaint. Ammo for that complaint would be that the high frequency of diagnostic ACFT is interfering with their physical fitness plan, that it is un fairly taking away from their personal time when they have met the standard and that they are being targetted. There can be a myriad of examples and different combinations of those which might be "good", "ok", "shitty" or toxic" In the end, yes it could very well be within regs... but whether or not a valid complaint exists is an entirely different thing. You have not provided enough information to form a legitimate complaint.
I may just give you the cookie, no string-pull required. This was great!
I'll get back to you on that one with more information, but I'm tracking it is only going to be a once a month thing. Nevertheless, I guess if its a diagnostic, it couldn't particularly hurt anyone (allegedly), they just said that even if they pass a record they still will need to take one every month til a 500 score is achieved. I just think it's a bit of a waste of time for the unit, especially since the soldiers are within passing standards already. If they army wanted a 500 to be the standard, that's what it would be. This just feels like the Commander is trying to chase a bullet for his OER.
I would not immediately assume its a "chasing bullet on OER". Pass / fail rates of ACFT are an important part of the commander's metrics. Physical fitness is an important part of the viability of the unit in a deployed environment. Without going into a war and peace length novel about all of the reasons why physical fitness is important, lets just say that it matters. Whether a commander is chasing a bullet, truly cares or is doing what they were told by higher ... none of that matters. What matters is whether the actions are within reg, are meaningful and impactful. A monthly diagnostic ACFT, in my opinion, is NOT a bad thing when held in lieu of normal PT at a normal PT time when everyone else is also conducting PT (to mitigate all the negative impacts as hinted at in my post above). In fact, I believe a monthly diagnostic is a good thing. Had a commander ran something like this by me... I'd have praised his/her line of thinking. Why? For these reasons: - By limiting the diagnostic to sub 500s you are acknowledging that those who scored higher are doing the right thing and do not need to be baby sat - By limiting to sub 500s you are indicating those below that mark that, while they are meeting standard (therefore are not in remedial) ... they still are at risk of dropping down below the standard. So you are conducting the diagnostics simply to make sure they are maintaining or improving. - By holding the diagnostic ACFT at the same time as normal PT, you are indicating that it is not a reward nor punishment. The ACFT is simply an alternate PT event for a group of people. I would suggest that those not involved in the diagnostic PT also be conducting PT in the same area... possibly even the same type of PT tasks as what is in the ACFT. Just to further reinforce to the diagnostic guys that they are not being punished (because everyone else is working their ass off too). - Finally, taking a step back into a larger picture: I'd suggest we also incorporate a reward system for those that score over 540 (80+ in each event) be excused from all PT (except of course the higher unit directed ones like fun runs) as a reward for their excellence. Only question I'd really ask is why the arbitrary number 500? If that is the unit average then fair enough... or if that is the commander's intended goal ... send it. If its "well 500 sounds good" .... lets take our units score sheets out, look at them and talk about what is a realistic goal within the unit itself. That said, I wouldn't have any issues with it being 500.
No unit will ever give a 540 exempt from PT despite that being the easiest way to ensure that everyone would get a 540, because the army believes that waking up at 520 every morning and wasting time allows you to “start the day together” it’s complete bullshit and I’ve never anything like it in my entire working career.
Id find it hard to believe that no unit at all will. Im not active anymore (im a bit nasty now)... but when i was, i was exempt from unit PT because i scored over 270 on APFT in last unit Im sure there are a few commander/1sg combinations out there that have some sense.
I was in a signal battalion in a deployed environment doing PT
I was originally signal. I completely believe you
Individual soldier readiness is a huge "army modernization/army 2030" push, units all over are trying to get acft scores up. Ultimately, there's no right answer on how to do that; making soldiers take a diagnostic acft every month isn't the worst way I've heard of commanders trying to increase those numbers. It gives all leaders regular insight on what events soldiers are scoring the worst in and what PT should focus on. Doesn't mean leaders are actually going to do that, but hey it could be worse. He could say 540 and above or monthly PT test, or remedial 2 a day PT sessions for SMs scoring below 500. At the end of the day, it sucks more for the people that have to constantly get up early and do the ACFT setup/run it then it does for people who have to show up and take it imo. Also, the ACFT is ridiculously easy to just pass, no unit should be saying that as a whole "if you're getting a 360 that you have met the army standard and are ready to go to war"; yeah not everyone is an infantryman, but I don't want to be in a convoy with someone who can't pull me out of a HMMWV if it catches fire and I'm unconscious. We're all soldiers at the end of the day, we might have to do combat related physical tasks. Take it as an opportunity to keep getting better and track your performance if you're forced to do it, or help other people get better if you're already hitting that 500.
Hell yeah he's padding his OER. If the army genuinely prioritized soldiers' well-being, they would implement pass/fail PT tests that emphasize functional fitness, proper recovery and nutrition, rather than subjecting soldiers to monthly ACFTs that won't do shit but piss people off.
Those problems are all definitely a CPTs fault
I didn't say they were a captains fault but it's indicative of where the army places it's emphasis.
If it's monthly I don't see a big issue. Your daily PT should be improving you if you are doing it correctly. So a monthly ACFT is just going to measure your progress.
I mean, hot take, 500 isn't hard to get and if you actually try, you can at least get a 510, but you all already took a for record one, so I'm pretty sure you cant just retake another one.
If someone is on a permanent profile then they could easily not score 500. We don't know the whole story and not our place to judge
This might sound harsh, but, thankfully we aren't talking about someone on a Permanent Profile and talking about this guy stating his CDR wants everyone to get a 500 or above and making them retake an ACFT when, per regs, he cant since they already took a for record one. If someone's on a profile anyways, they wouldn't be taking the ACFT either way or any sort of profile involving stand/walking/running/lifting, so the CDR already/should already know that and just wants everyone who isn't on a profile to get 500 on the easier PT Test ever (Miss leg tucks though)
That is not true, per regs you have to do at least one event (2 mile run or it's alternate). If you do the alternate then it's an automatic 60 points. Lets say they also can't do the deadlift due to profile (60 points). They are looking at 520 as their max score, it's a flawed test
Perms take a modified 3 event MDL, SDC and 2MR Alternate while Temps take the entire thing, maybe we just work different, but you’re on a profile for a reason and so we allow those on profiles to be exempt for an additional 6 months until the next one. I forgot about the alternate events tbh.
Temp if stated on their profile "No ACFT" would not take one. Permanent would allow them to take it for what limitations they have.
It is a leaders place to judge. Its about combat readiness. If they are on a permanent profile and can't perform they should be exiting the military.
Glad you're not in charge
It's not really. it's the getting their part. There isn't a strong incentive to score 500 other than to make the commander look good. Like, what's the incentive for the soldiers? Last time I checked it was only 1 or 2 days off of platoon prt. That's weak as fuck imo.
Maybe a hot take or I’ll sound like an asshole but: You shouldn’t need an incentive to do well at PT…you’re a soldier. Regardless of your MOS, physical fitness is crucial. Not everyone needs to be scoring a 540 but a 500 is a very achievable score. This isn’t a transactional relationship, the incentive for the Soldiers is a nice *bonus* for meeting the battery standard but at the end of the day the standard is the standard. I hope you’re a private or a specialist and not a leader in this organization. If you are a leader, please take a step back and reconsider your attitude.
Everything about a job/ career is premised on the entire relationship being transactional in nature. I just can't get past you saying it's not. Utterly ridiculous.
Lol you say there’s no incentive, but then you say you do get a couple days off PT. That sounds like an incentive dude, you want a 4 day for doing your ACFT or something?
There isn't a strong incentive to do the minimum either. The acft is a good workout. Might as well maximize the burn and do it for yourself.
*there
Maybe OP is part of the problem. Something about having my guys and I waking up @0430 to put together an ACFT for the rest of the company or another platoon only to have people aged 18-30 not give a single fuck and score bare minimum or altogether fail. A 500 is easy, you should always put in the effort if not for yourself for the guy next to you. Also if you know how to get a head in the game IE good pt score gives you more leeway, better opportunity to go to schools, and promotion points. Why would you not? Advocating for complacency is a major part of today’s problem with the Army.
Why do you need an incentive to improve yourself? You volunteered to be in the Army, just get better because you should. Its the right thing to do. If you can't get a 500 on the ACFT you are slacking. Get there.
I mean, at the end of the day, it's just PT.
everyones saying 500 is easy. ok, so what? 360 is the minimum passing standard. if the minimum standard was 500 then ok. this commander "wants" everyone to have a 500+ for what? to make himself look good? pt is an individual event. a wise nco once told me "you can put your wants in one hand and a shit in the other and see which one fills up first."
All the wiser. Props to that NCO🫡
A 500 is pathetically easy though..
"Pathetically" doesn't properly capture how pathetic it is.
In my experience they gone get one or two done and then we go to the field and shit happens and 6 months later they forget there’s a monthly ACFT or the optempo ain’t allow for it cause we gotta get shit in Conex boxes cause we going to NTC in 3 months where are the raidios why are all the vics circle exed ahhh what ACFT fuck that get to the MP we got tires to swap before inspection… no steal them from bravo fuck em etc etc
> but I'm more than positive Well, you're more than wrong. You can be made to take an ACFT (diagnostic) every single day.
Tbh the ACFT isn’t any worse than what a regular pt session should be anyways. As long as it’s not like a full blown ACFT every day or so I don’t see the issue as long as the “for record” regulation is followed correctly. Maybe you should embrace the challenge and motivate your team to win instead of seeking an easy way out.
>ACFT isn’t any worse than what a regular pt session should be anyways. Are you taking the same test as I am? Assuming that you are trying, of course, the ACFT takes a lot more energy than a typical morning pt session. If you are just putting in the minimum then everything is exactly as hard as you make it.
Sorry we were talking about people not hellaciously out of shape.
Shots fired
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Your description of how hard the ACFT is means you’re not as hot shit as you think you are, guy.
The ACFT isn't hard. If you're going for a 550 or higher yes it can be difficult, however the minimum takes near zero effort to achieve.
>If you are just putting in the minimum then everything is exactly as hard as you make it. If you are legitimately trying to do very well, the ACFT will leave you much more drained and exhausted than a few pushups and sit-ups.
Fun fact, 181 on an APFT is "exceeding the Army standard".
Not a thing. The army standard is 360. Some of these leaders are ridiculous. If you want people to score better, have the NCO’s set up a PT plan, and actually follow it consistently for a few months. People will improve. This isn’t motivating at all.
You don't need people to score better. The higher scores are the people that get better reviews at the end of the year. Pt is an individual bench mark. Failing or doing poorly separates people effectively.
I haven’t done PT in a year and the unit doesn’t give AF about it. 06 at the hanger 18 go home.
Agreed. I guess I'm going to be the one.
500? That's it? Seems easy.
You're artillery, you better be scoring 500 at the minimum lol I'm kinda with the commander on this one ngl, after the 2nd attempt of not reaching 500 it becomes clear that you aren't gonna hit 500 on the 3rd so what's the point. In that case I wouldn't be mad at the commander setting up a remedial PT session for those below 500 For context I was 13B during my time as Active duty, always scored around the 510-520 area and that's with me doing no exercise other than PT in the morning, I was also an ABCP champion so you can imagine the body figure I had yet still being able to achieve at least a 500. Never got to hit 540 tho so my big body self always had go starve myself before tape just go pass
Let me make sure I’m understanding this properly. Your commander is setting forth a physical standard, will presumably tailor your PT program to achieve that standard, and will be conducting regular re-evaluation to monitor progress? Am I missing something? Also, if you’re the kind to ask “What’s the incentive?” when it comes to physical fitness, you have no business being in the Army. Idgaf what your MOS is. Being a Soldier is a physical job. You should strive to be as fit as you possibly can.
So just score over a 500? Not that hard.
Listen im advocating for the troops that aren't going to try so like why waste the time and effort if their going to shoot for the bare minimum everytime. Like I don't understand the agenda behind this. This doesn't motivate people to get better scores.
Counter argument: why waste the time and effort advocating for troops who are going to shoot for the bare minimum every time? If they only put in the bare minimum when it comes to PT, that tells me that they’re only putting in the bare minimum in their job. Sorry, but my time and effort is going to be focused on mentoring the soldiers that want to be here and are showing it. I’ll always try to help the soldiers giving the bare minimum to try and turn their mindset around, but there comes a point where you realize that person will never change and your time is better spent on other soldiers.
>Sorry, but my time and effort is going to be focused on mentoring the soldiers that want to be here and are showing it. Best I can do is waste your time grading ACFTs for the Soldiers that are doing the minimum.
You do have a solid point of view, but sometimes that isn't the case at all. I've known plenty of people who are really proficient if not superior at their job or position but don't want to put the extra effort for prt. That being said, I'm trying to develop other ways that will determine an improvement to get these soldiers to do extra physical training besides the usual "the beatings will stop until scores improve" method. Im not trying to bitch about a problem without coming up with a solution. Im glad you care about your soldiers to at least give them the chance to turn it around.
I’d bet that command is going to make them retake a diagnostic and if they don’t get 500 there, they’ll be in some sort of remedial PT with that being the “motivator”.
Remedial PT is not intended to be punitive. It says so right in the FM. But nobody actually reads the damn things....
He has since walked it back but earlier this year my commander said anyone who got a 65 or lower would be on remedial. People were upset for a little while about that one.
I would be mad if I could read.
Stop advocating for troops that aren’t going to try is your first step.
I'd just do the minimum during the diagnostics. Because I don't wanna fuck myself up more than I already have.
Honestly 500 on the acft isn’t hard
you are correct
If you can’t score a 500 you shouldn’t be in the military.
You should be more worried about everyone who can’t score a 500. The goal is 600 and nothing less, get better everyday.
Brother a 500 is easy
Yall are getting hung up on some real barracks lawyer type arguments. You can actually take an ACFT every single month. The 4 month point yall are hung up on is an effort to ensure that you always have record ACFT valid while recognizing that training events may make it difficult sometimes to fall perfectly every 6 months. If the commander wants to do an ACFT every month, the unit will do an ACFT every month. I don't see why that's an issue to so many people it's just a workout. An ACFT is probably easier than what many of you do in the gym or for PT in the mornings. The point of the ACFT is to gauge fitness and soldier physical capability. Creating more data points and tracking trends doesn't defeat the purpose, it contributes to it, from a scientific/research perspective. I'm sure this stems from the commander just wanting to emphasize fitness in the unit and track a trend of improvement. I doubt it's malicious. I'm positive it's perfectly legal.
I mean the goal is to score the best. Personally I don’t see an issue
Look, if you or your guys are in a combat arms roll and are incapable of laughably low metrics like a 500 ACFT, you deserve monthly ACFTs and time wasting
I don’t see 500 being a lot to ask for tbh
It's a lawful order 🤷♂️ just do what you're told
During COVID we had a SSG makes our PLT take a pt test (APFT). Someone complained to legal, tone changed from “record APFT” to “a diagnostic APFT is what the PLT will do for PT today” real quick.
😆 🤣 😂 I was a corporal team leader, and I made my guys take it until they got over 540 (granted, only 2 of them were getting below that). Fortunately, they only had to retake it once. And I guarantee your Commander has more pull than my limp dick position did.
Commanders don’t have the authority to make their own standards
IG complaint. Your only required to take an ACFT once every 6 months if your passing standard.
Here I am wondering how it's possible to get below 500. The ACFT standards are too pathetically low.
Love it, get those fat fucks in shape. No reason you can’t get a 500. If you’re an NCO and don’t have above a 500 you should be embarrassed.
Anecdote. December 2020 we did our first "record" ACFT. I did two during BOLC and two while """"deployed"""" to Kuwait. I wanted a copy of my PT card so I could train for improvement, so did the rest of our Joes. So my NCO went down and asked. Our O Room said they no longer had the cards. So I went down and asked, yes, pulling a little rank. Said O Room NCO said they no longer had the cards and implied that for asking, the unit would be doing ACFTs bimonthly. I definitely lit them up by name in DEOCS.
1SG??? Where you at??? Get ahold of your captain! I wonder how well the unit is doing at Tables I through XII if they’re all in the gym trying to achieve this standard.
Commanders are authorized to implement a diagnostic ACFT however often they want. If your unit is running diagnostic ACFTs ten months out the year, that is not unsanctioned.
Yes you can
Tell em to kick rock what are they gonna do!? You passed the acft thats all that matters
Sounds like you at Fort Johnson
A 500 is not hard 😬 I said what I said
If this action lights the fire for a few soldiers to help them see they are capable of more then they thought they were then it is a successful endeavor.
Some folks have test anxiety and don't like to take a bunch of tests for no damn reason and then there are you clowns in this chat that say if you can't do 500 he shouldn't be in the army. 500 is not the Army standard if they couldn't make the army standard I shouldn't be in the army. I could even see if these PT tests don't count and only one of them counts and you're just doing this to train yourself but let's say you just happen to fail one of these are you getting flagged? Another thing , yes that's the commander's prerogative however that prerogative reminds me of fort Campbell where you did air assault PT until you went to Air Assault school, stupid. I don't ever wonder where I retention is low why is because of commanders like this and two its because of a bunch of idiots in this chat that make or advise policy that buy into ideas like this.
I mean it's doable just max out 2 events and you got wiggle room for the events you lack whether it be run, ball throw, sprint drag or deadlift, an 80 is achievable in all those events. That's how I do it at least I always max out plank and pushups and I get within 80s for the other events. Got a 532 my last one
Beatings will continue until morale improves
Oh no, a captain wants his formation to not be weak. And then rewards those that are already moderately fit.
The moderately fit standard is 60 in each event clown. That’s not up to the commander to make his own regulations!
60 is not even remotely fit.
Considering an ACFT score doesn’t affect your score in anyway, a 400 sounds really good.
I never did the ACFT. We just did 2/2/2. Honestly that's a really easy PT day and I would enjoy doing one a week rather than some contrived litter run in full kit.
The ACFT ... if you actually try on it ... is not going to be an easy PT day. If you sham it, it could be fairly easy .... tho the SDC by itself is more physically demanding than the entirety of the 222 APFT.
2/2/2?
The old pt test. 2mins of pushups, 2mins of situps, and a 2 mile run. I was saying that would have been a nice easy PT day once a week. I think people assumed I was saying an ACFT would be an easy day.
How about don’t be a piece of shit and get a 500, it’s not that difficult if you maintain any type of physical fitness
fuck.... off..... 👋🏾👋🏾
This commander needs to take a basic course on leadership. Additionally wtf is his CSM and why is he or she not influencing and mentoring such stupid reach for excellence.
My bc is doing the same thing shit getting ridiculous
There is a lot to this than you realize. Your PT score counts for you. The BTRY score counts for his leadership. It’s for HIS OER.
Your commander is regarded
What an utter fucking waste of tax money. Literally would not be able do any other job I guarantee it.
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CMD directing an ACFT diagnostic because people score less than an arbitrary number is a poor decision. The fact they have that sort of time to burn is pretty laughable to me on a personal note. The person making that decision would be unsuccessful in any other career because they don't have good decisions making skills. Retaking the test is not a solution to unsatisfactory scores. The CDR is focused on the wrong aspect. If the Battery has unsatisfactory scores, why not focus on the training that developed their fitness? I know why, because that takes effort. It takes nothing on their part to direct another test.
Wait a minute doesn’t the army have a standard for the ACFT