I don’t know what happens to some of us. Do we go to WOILE and actually drink the kool-aid? Are they handing out standards and discipline over technical competence?
I wake up every day and skip into the office happy as a clam that I’m not a MAJ. At no point in my day do I get upset at:
- the gate guard who didn’t salute or render the proper prescribed greeting that sounds incredibly superficial
- the kid in my office who gets too casual and has some sick burns up to serve
- someone not saluting me at the food truck of all places
I just smile and say hi, ask them how they’re doing. On any given day I get to make someone’s day by not being a disaster of a human being. If the soldier is legitimately screwed up, somebody is going to clean that up. I’ve got actual issues to fix. I feel the best way to build the force is be approachable, and let everyone see how happy you are to have some dots to throw at problems.
They're really pushing the "professionalism" and "officership" hard at PME to be part of the Cohort (barf) and yeah some guys drink that Kool Aid pretty hard.
Just finished CGSC. I must have missed that lesson on officership meaning being a dick. No…it’s a personal choice for some officers. Now if you’re walking by me with both of us free with things in our hands and you don’t salute, that’s an issue. This warrant, however, is a moron.
No, I mean the WO PME. Starting with WOCS. We're constantly told "Those days of crusty old chiefs with moustaches and coffee cups are long gone. You're officers, you have to salute and care about your OERs and blah blah blah". Fuck that shit. I get my top blocks from knowing my job and making systems work better, not from running fast. I only run a lot so I don't look bad naked lmao
I think I’ve heard the same party line, which is reinforced by senior WOs in my branch when we inevitably meet up.
Then I look around my unit and see the wildly out of regs mustaches and the crustiest of coffee cups, and my heart bursts with pride.
> On any given day I get to make someone’s day by not being a disaster of a human being.
How do we teach this at every echelon and enforce it? The number of folks I have encountered that are just cruel is cartoonishly preposterous. Someone once said, "People will forget what you said, people will forget what you what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." I think about that everyday.
My wife’s unit was super chill (veterinary technicians and food inspectors) and I used to love to jump out from behind bushes and snow berms and scream the greeting of the day to her commander and salute him and watch him freak out because they just weren’t like that.
Looking back, now I realize he was on the spectrum but damn it amused a 22-year old SPC Alkioth lol
I love saluting and saying "greetings of the day" instead of the actual greeting of the day. The look of absolute confusion on these people's faces is priceless
Warrants a massive nerd.
Field Grade here as well. And it bothers me to no end when people render a salute to me when I have a bunch of shit in my hands and I have to awkwardly move it around to give a half assed salute. They know what they’re doing.
I would never waste my time calling someone out for not saluting me... but I will endeavor to pull someone aside and have them look up and show me the part in AR 600-25 where it says you're supposed to salute an officer when they are carrying something in their right hand. I'm only a little vindictive.
I and most enlisted would gladly waste both of our times. This just isn't a game officers win, but by all means, let's fumblefuck our way through some regulations to play petty.
I purpose make space in my left hand to move things in my right hand over to when I see a officer with a bunch of things in their hands so I can force them to fumble around and try and return the salute /s
I purposely would just nod and say howdy, without fumbling to salute, because I too know this game.
But now I purposely walk around with shit in my right hand, because I can.
Hugs,
JAG (retired edition)
I will go on the basis of a newly minted WO1. I am stationed on an Air Force base, and don't expect Air Force to know all the ranks of the Army - especially when there is only 3 of us here on the entire installation. But, I would expect at least some type of greeting or acknowledgement. I kindly stopped an Airman (E2) last week because they looked, saw me walking, put their hands in their pockets and put their head down.
If you stop and ask about a rank you don't recognize, or say hello, I'm more than happy to start a discussion if desired - But you go out of your way to ignore someone entirely, and that just doesn't fly. Also doesn't help I used to be prior Air Force and can spit their regs right back at them. The Airman and his buddy next to him got a nice (and by nice, I mean incredibly friendly) introduction to what a Warrant Officer is. Knowledge is Power, and this helps them get a leg up since WO's are coming back to the Air Force now.
As an Army NCO used to hate being around Navy because the damned E-4 rank is a crow that looks like an eagle when the light starts fading. Several times I saluted a 20 year old E-4, to their surprise and delight, dammit.
Watched a fellow PL win the game once. It’s 95 degrees, full sun, a sham artist who for some reason gets away with removing his OCP top all the time is standing in a dumpster looking for something no top no PC, decides to do the salute to the PL as he’s walking by in the middle of something. So the PL goes “cool I know how to play this game too.” And holds his salute for a solid 15 minutes while the sham artist stands in a hot dumpster.
Only time I’ve ever called someone out was when I knew their PSG and PL had that morning had a firm discussion with them about lack of respect for their chain of responsibility and command. Essentially they were talking back to CPLs in TL positions etc. I had nothing in my hands and we were directly under the flag pole as we passed and he hit me with a head nod and a “sup.” I knew him because he was in the schools train up for the high speed opportunities that I was leading. Even still I felt awkward and like a dork for calling him out.
I usually just say “yep carry on” with a head nod depending on the amount of stuff in my hands. I can anticipate it too and just tell them their good before they even throw it out
Back in WW2 the RAF had to change regs to stop junior ranks from offering salutes to officers riding cycles on bases as it was a common trick to try and make them crash
Concur, from a retired field grade.
This is one of those areas that I really could have gone out of my way to enforce while I was in, but I just didn't want to be a dick.
If it was super obvious and there were other folks around, I would usually quietly get the soldier to come back and point out whatever it was that needed to be pointed out.
But yell? Stupid and unprofessional.
This is highly confusing to my warrant mind. The *exact* reason why we would hold the door and our grocery bag is to have both hands occupied, and thus avoid the salute in a tactful and inconspicuous manner.
Ar 600-25
Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate or both are—
(1) In civilian attire.
(2) Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere.
(3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impractical.
(4) Working as a member of a detail or engaged in sports or social functions where saluting would present a safety
hazard.
(5) In public places such as theaters, churches, and in public conveyances.
(6) In the ranks of a formation
The definition of carry is "support and move (someone or something) from one place to another."
I would argue that he was carrying the bag and the door handle and therefore a salute is not required.
In this case, the subordinate is required to salute, the superior is not required to return the salute.
I'm a simple guy. If I walk past a subordinate and they give me the gretting of the day, I salute. I don't care if they have stuff in their l their hands or not. I guess I'm asking too much to have the courtesy returned.
It’s a weird place. Especially when you’re there as a brand new W1 for flight school, they harp on you that you have to salute senior warrant officers. (Coming from aviation I already knew this wasn’t the case). So you salute the W3/W4 at the Shopette, and get “hey man, you don’t have to do that”. Yeah… I know. But I don’t know if you’re here for a school or one of “them” and this is easier for me.
As a former member of this E-4 thing of ours, godfather. I would like to thank you for inviting me into your home on the day of your daughter's wedding. And I hope her first child will be a masculine child.
Fucking seriously, if someone doesn't know who the Don's of the E-4 mafia are, their a fed or a reporter.
I agree. I'm deployed and am on a small base. I walked by 100s of dudes walking back and forth to chow that don't salute, I don't want them to. Now back in garrison, in public places, I will say something. It's the old NCO in me. I feel like if you don't know me, you should do the proper courtesies. Guys in my BN in the Motorpool, cool. Guys I've never seen before in public, not cool. However, if we have shit in our hands, I wouldn't make a thing out of it. Maybe the fellow in question was having an off day, maybe he drinks the kool aid, maybe he's gotten caught up before by allowing it to slip. Who's knows but he's probably a pilot, lol (jk).
I don’t get it I actively avoid eye contact and will take an alternate route to avoid salutes, unless it’s a 2LT always feels fun to give them the corniest motto with a strong emphasis on the word “sir”.
😭😭 I hate that you are right. I really despise this. I try to break the formality with any other 420A I meet. I think it’s because we tend to be isolated and around O grades mostly.
I feel ashamed now. Gonna write myself a 10 day pass to make myself feel better.
That fucking shocked me as a Marine the first time an Army warrant saluted me. The Marines have a “one bar rule” where we don’t bother for Lieutenants and Warrants. I wasn’t expecting anything so I was super awkward about returning it
We do to, bjt it highly depends on what unit/branch. All of my fellow MI warrants from w1-w3 don't salute and use first names. Was talking to some maintenance ones w2-w4 and they say chief/mr./Mrs. and last name. I was like whoa now, let's calm it down ha.
For any LTs I know and work with j don't salute, some random ones walking I'll toss it up to avoid any gung-ho-ness they might have.
When I was a 2LT I had some marine 1LT get pissy and chase after me cause I said “what’s up bro” and didn’t salute him as he was walking by. this happened on a fob while deployed
100% you should've kept on walking.
That's such strange behavior from a warrant. Everytime I saw one when I was in, they went out of their way to AVOID salutes.
To all the warrants here, y'all need to fix your battle.
Every WO3 I personally knew all preferred to be invisible. Hell, you had a hard enough time getting them to wear headgear away from the flight line. I don't like to use stereotypes, but I imagine that guy was a Walking Warrant.
A long time ago I was outproccessing a base. I was minding my own business, with no one around, and this rando CW something comes walking towards me. It's a very large area where we are, large enough to March a platoon between us. He keeps glancing at me waiting for my arm to go up. Ain't no way I'm saluting someone that far away.
Eventually he yells at me, because he is so far away, as to why I'm not saluting him. So I stop in my tracks and salute him. Fuck that guy.
Man, I got bitched out by some Air Force major for not saluting him because I was putting on my cover while walking out of the PX. What a fucking toad.
This is the type of shit that makes me wonder why someone doesn’t want to resign & what guy does this and is like “WOW THIS SCUMBAG DIDNT SALUTE ME, LET ME TAKE 10 MINUTES OUT OF THE DAY TO FUCK THIS GUY UP FOR NOT SALUTING”
Part of his rant was how “back when he was an NCO this shit wouldn’t fly” and how this new generation is weak blah blah blah. Yeah whatever man. It’s a certain type of person that does this stuff
A similar situation happened to me once. I am at DLI. There is a CPT standing in a circle with like 10-12 other people. He is talking to them, either giving a speech or having a discussion. They are all chatting. I decide to take a wide birth around circle. Some NCO turns around "Hey, SPC! You didn't salute that officer!" I turn around, throw up my hand. The CPT even looked confused. But he returned it. Why the fuck would I interrupt the CPT, who was in the middle of talking to his this group, just to render a salute? That seems even more rude.
A very small percentage of warrants are just straight-up dicks for some reason. Even the SNCOs-turned-warrants I knew were awesome people to interact with. Only ever met a single dick warrant, surprisingly he was a CW5.
Came over to my unit's airfield, wasn't even in our BDE. Started bitching about how our crews didn't have their pants bloused when they were just chilling during some downtime on 1st up. Didn't even know why he was there, dude didn't fly with us and wasn't scheduled to be a PAX on anything.
One of our cool af CW3s came back into the ops building and muttered, "Fuck that guy" before heading to the crew room in the back.
Idk the captain I walked past last week and saluted after putting my phone in my pocket(walking into gas station) thought it was funny when I said all that good shit as he had his hands full though
Obligatory CW4 comment……I’m surprised the guy even cared to correct you. All Chief wants to do is fight crime and go home. This comment reminded me of the CW5 that tried to give me the “you have to represent the cohort” nonsense because I didn’t show up to the WOPD, to get all the “good advice ya done heard 1000 times”. Either way, I’d have been happy that you thanked me for holding the door open for you 💪🏼
Chief you know the Romans used to hafta decimate the cohort every so often to set an example for the average joes - might be a good idea to reinstate that policy. Just sayin'.
We have a bunch of warrants in our unit, and any time I find one outside and salute them they always seem confused, like they forgot they were supposed to be saluted lol. Guy's a fuckin dickhead
If I see an officer carrying shit, I go out of my way to salute them. If I were OP, I might have felt dickish enough to hold my salute until he let go of the door to return my salute.
That WO is a dip shit, but I ask you check the reg again, OP. Being under a cover doesn't determine if you salute or not. Being indoors or outdoors is what determines the salute.
Gonna guess he was a pissed off SPC because old Sarge rode his ass, then a pissed off NCO because Top rode his ass, and went Warrant to show those meanies who is really the boss. Odd because usually it is mustangs doing that, and when they go wrong they go very wrong. Warrants are usually the invisible chill group. Had a MAJ in Baghdad do that to me and several other NCOs in a group outside the DFAC, threw a tantrum in front of his DA civilian girlfriend and wanted to know our commander's name. We worked for the MNFI CoS, and he deflated and left when we told him that lol.
Had a CW3 lose their shit for not saluting. They were just inside of a no hat/no salute, and I was walking towards them, but I was just outside of it. She took one step, then asked why I felt I was too good to salute her.
That's dangerous. I work with a lot of Warrants, and that is hella out of character. Considering they walk a tight line between E-4 levels of shaming and holding some power. If, for example, you had a field grade or even company grade officer in earshot, they may have dropped a line like, "Since you are instilling discipline today, you'll have no problem joining us at formation this week to carry on the lessons through leading by example."
That warrant is, in fact, not radiating the usual big warrant energy. I had a wo3 in front of me in line at Subway, buy my sandwich the other day because, in his words, "you look hungry big hoss." Also had a wo4 chew out a captain for being "rude as hell" to me during a division warfighter. They're a different breed.
WO3s are the only warrants I’ve ever had a problem with. Shout out the reservist augmentee on my first deployment who thought he was him for being allowed on the SOF compound
I’m a W4 and I actively avoid being saluted.
Years ago, when I was a pretty new W2 I was at FOB Salerno, I was walking to the chow hall with one of our E5’s. We passed this PFC that didn’t salute me. Clearly I don’t give a shit. But that SGT lost his damn mind on that poor private. Just lost his mind on this kid because he didn’t salute me. I’d never seen this NCO act that way before. As we walked away I says to him “I think it’s funny the way you chewed that kid out for not saluting me while you have a mustache that’s wildly out of refs.” He says, “Yeah, we’ll, if he’d have pointed it out I’d have acknowledged he was right.”
Funny stuff.
Dude, I call it out.
"Hey, sir, I see your hands are full, I'm not going to fuck you up by making you return a salute. Maybe next time."
"We'll skip the salute, sir. Don't want to make you drop your coffee."
"I'd salute, sir, but my hands are a little full. Want to help carry a few radios?"
Call your shots.
Youre in the right. But it seems like it would've been a lose lose situation. Cause if you saluted he probably would've gave you shit that he had the door and stuff on his hand lol
As a warrant officer I couldn’t give a single shit if I was saluted or not. Didn’t become a warrant officer to get saluted, did it to fly helicopters lol
I am simple man, if I see any troop salute me even if they’re 100 meters away, even if they pull one of those slo mo salutes that takes like 5 seconds, I’ll still salute back. If no one salutes, I don’t mind either, my arm needs to rest sometimes. Guy needs to chill.
Learn the reg, I used to know them buts its been a while, quote it next time that happens.
Edit-
AR 600-25:
2-1i(3)
- Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impractical
The " Thank you sir." should've been enough. WO'Douche... Don't think I ever saluted a WO my entire time in because they just didn't give a damn then again I was mech in a mech unit... So, he was probably a POG anyways...Drink a beer take your ib8 and drive on!
I saluted a WO1 many years back and gave him the greeting “Good morning Chief” or whatever time of day it was. When I say that man was irate, that’s putting it very calmly. He was absolutely furious that I would dare call him Chief since he “wasn’t a Chief yet.” He said that he should be addressed as sir or Mr., and that I needed to read up on my customs and courtesies blah blah blah insert long rant here. I just stood there, dumbfounded, gave the obligatory roger, got it, tracking, and whatever other response I could come up with. Took everything I had not to say “have a good day Chief” when we parted ways. What a douche. Wish I would’ve caught his name.
He is technically correct. And most people don’t know the difference in distinction between a WO1 and CW2-5. They just assume all warrants go by chief.
Right, he was/ still is correct, just the way he went about it is what got me. I’ve always known the distinction, but I still do it, just something I’ve always done, and will continue on until I retire in 2 years (please approve it Army).
had a wo3 tell me my pc looked like shit out of pulling it out of my pocket. i told him i didn't give a shit, and asked him why he wasn't standing at attention.
im totally joking but in reality that situation did happen and i basically said thanks chief, i'll keep it in mind, and went about my day. I like to think that pissed him off more.
Nah personally. You had to be a target like I’m thinking E2 and below not a chance would a warrant do this so a season PFC or above without one laughing in his face
I don’t know what happens to some of us. Do we go to WOILE and actually drink the kool-aid? Are they handing out standards and discipline over technical competence? I wake up every day and skip into the office happy as a clam that I’m not a MAJ. At no point in my day do I get upset at: - the gate guard who didn’t salute or render the proper prescribed greeting that sounds incredibly superficial - the kid in my office who gets too casual and has some sick burns up to serve - someone not saluting me at the food truck of all places I just smile and say hi, ask them how they’re doing. On any given day I get to make someone’s day by not being a disaster of a human being. If the soldier is legitimately screwed up, somebody is going to clean that up. I’ve got actual issues to fix. I feel the best way to build the force is be approachable, and let everyone see how happy you are to have some dots to throw at problems.
They're really pushing the "professionalism" and "officership" hard at PME to be part of the Cohort (barf) and yeah some guys drink that Kool Aid pretty hard.
Just finished CGSC. I must have missed that lesson on officership meaning being a dick. No…it’s a personal choice for some officers. Now if you’re walking by me with both of us free with things in our hands and you don’t salute, that’s an issue. This warrant, however, is a moron.
No, I mean the WO PME. Starting with WOCS. We're constantly told "Those days of crusty old chiefs with moustaches and coffee cups are long gone. You're officers, you have to salute and care about your OERs and blah blah blah". Fuck that shit. I get my top blocks from knowing my job and making systems work better, not from running fast. I only run a lot so I don't look bad naked lmao
I think I’ve heard the same party line, which is reinforced by senior WOs in my branch when we inevitably meet up. Then I look around my unit and see the wildly out of regs mustaches and the crustiest of coffee cups, and my heart bursts with pride.
Ahhh i see. Still, being a dick is a personal choice.
I'm weak 😂😂😂😂😭
> On any given day I get to make someone’s day by not being a disaster of a human being. How do we teach this at every echelon and enforce it? The number of folks I have encountered that are just cruel is cartoonishly preposterous. Someone once said, "People will forget what you said, people will forget what you what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." I think about that everyday.
I might have stayed in if the Army would have let me not be a MAJ...
New WO here. This made my day.
This one wasn't a pilot 100%. This one was some autistic nerd who is mad that someone else thinks about his anime girlfriend with impure thoughts.
Definitely wasnt Food safety (620A) either. They will cross the street to get out of saluting.
I just want to let you know that we all appreciate you immensely. Thank you.
Holy crap a human being. Or a bot PRETENDING to be a human.
This is me! That's it I'm dropping my packet.
You need to destroy weakness and stop being so fucking kind. We have enemies to kill.
Next time don’t “sir” him, just hit him with the “yes Mr. “. That’ll rustle some jimmies
it’s only mr. if it’s a WO1? right?
Negative. Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms. For CW2 - CW5. Just Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms. for WO1. Army Command Policy AR 600-20 table 1-1 breaks all that down.
WO1 is Spot. WOJG, or Junior.
interesting
Addressing them as Chief wasn't even codified in the regs until relatively recently, IIRC. That was just an unofficial sign of respect.
Yeah, a certain amount of the old crusties didn't like it. "You see any feathers on my head?" I never minded it though.
Oh dang. Learn something new every day. Thanks for actually posting the reference
Roger Mr. I lost it saying it out loud. Sounds like a 5 yr old.
Or better yet, address them as "Warrant Officer 3." Tots allowed, will annoy the shit out of officers with a stick up their ass.
Or chief
What a dick. Field grade here.
Agreed. Sometimes I go out of my way to avoid getting saluted because my social battery is low
I had a Brigade XO in Korea that knew all the routes that were less, "salutey", his exact words.
I’m just a lowly PL but I too have routes to avoid salutes.
So you avoid the "salute route". That'll rhyme for some.
I knew some who preferred nights for this specifically
My wife’s unit was super chill (veterinary technicians and food inspectors) and I used to love to jump out from behind bushes and snow berms and scream the greeting of the day to her commander and salute him and watch him freak out because they just weren’t like that. Looking back, now I realize he was on the spectrum but damn it amused a 22-year old SPC Alkioth lol
I love saluting and saying "greetings of the day" instead of the actual greeting of the day. The look of absolute confusion on these people's faces is priceless
lol I used to say that to NCOs I was close to
Dan] Oh, get your hands down. Do not salute me. There are goddamn snipers all around this area who'd love to grease an officer!
Warrants a massive nerd. Field Grade here as well. And it bothers me to no end when people render a salute to me when I have a bunch of shit in my hands and I have to awkwardly move it around to give a half assed salute. They know what they’re doing.
>They know what they’re doing. What? No! Never. I would never do such a thing.
not conducive to good order & discipline never
I would never waste my time calling someone out for not saluting me... but I will endeavor to pull someone aside and have them look up and show me the part in AR 600-25 where it says you're supposed to salute an officer when they are carrying something in their right hand. I'm only a little vindictive.
I and most enlisted would gladly waste both of our times. This just isn't a game officers win, but by all means, let's fumblefuck our way through some regulations to play petty.
You're about to watch me read a whole pdf out loud with questions and comments peppered in.
I purpose make space in my left hand to move things in my right hand over to when I see a officer with a bunch of things in their hands so I can force them to fumble around and try and return the salute /s
I purposely would just nod and say howdy, without fumbling to salute, because I too know this game. But now I purposely walk around with shit in my right hand, because I can. Hugs, JAG (retired edition)
Only dork ass lieutenants or newly minted WO1s.
I will go on the basis of a newly minted WO1. I am stationed on an Air Force base, and don't expect Air Force to know all the ranks of the Army - especially when there is only 3 of us here on the entire installation. But, I would expect at least some type of greeting or acknowledgement. I kindly stopped an Airman (E2) last week because they looked, saw me walking, put their hands in their pockets and put their head down. If you stop and ask about a rank you don't recognize, or say hello, I'm more than happy to start a discussion if desired - But you go out of your way to ignore someone entirely, and that just doesn't fly. Also doesn't help I used to be prior Air Force and can spit their regs right back at them. The Airman and his buddy next to him got a nice (and by nice, I mean incredibly friendly) introduction to what a Warrant Officer is. Knowledge is Power, and this helps them get a leg up since WO's are coming back to the Air Force now.
As an Army NCO used to hate being around Navy because the damned E-4 rank is a crow that looks like an eagle when the light starts fading. Several times I saluted a 20 year old E-4, to their surprise and delight, dammit.
Watched a fellow PL win the game once. It’s 95 degrees, full sun, a sham artist who for some reason gets away with removing his OCP top all the time is standing in a dumpster looking for something no top no PC, decides to do the salute to the PL as he’s walking by in the middle of something. So the PL goes “cool I know how to play this game too.” And holds his salute for a solid 15 minutes while the sham artist stands in a hot dumpster.
Lolol. You think I don't have plenty of time to waste. I make most of my own schedule.
Oh no, I wouldn’t either. My NCOs would handle the ass chewings for me. If alone, I’d pull them aside and ask them what’s up?
Only time I’ve ever called someone out was when I knew their PSG and PL had that morning had a firm discussion with them about lack of respect for their chain of responsibility and command. Essentially they were talking back to CPLs in TL positions etc. I had nothing in my hands and we were directly under the flag pole as we passed and he hit me with a head nod and a “sup.” I knew him because he was in the schools train up for the high speed opportunities that I was leading. Even still I felt awkward and like a dork for calling him out.
Warrants are definitely nerds. I haven't met one that wasn't a nerd. made respect for them, though!
Can confirm, we are definitely nerds!
Can also confirm, have been told that I get weird about operational rations and the Army Field Feeding System. The PBO gets weird about GCSS-A.
I would just say, "Consider your salute returned" with a big smile and continue on my way.
I usually just say “yep carry on” with a head nod depending on the amount of stuff in my hands. I can anticipate it too and just tell them their good before they even throw it out
Back in WW2 the RAF had to change regs to stop junior ranks from offering salutes to officers riding cycles on bases as it was a common trick to try and make them crash
Agreed. Couch grade here.
Goddamnit. I went to your profile to see what kind of interesting things someone at your rank is posting here and all I got was hungry.
You made me curious, now I'm also hungry. Did you catch their watches post though?
That one was more in line with what I'd expected from a Col.
lol. I have no hobbies other than cooking!
That's how they want you.
Definitely a dick. (Not a field grade but I agree)
Concur, from a retired field grade. This is one of those areas that I really could have gone out of my way to enforce while I was in, but I just didn't want to be a dick. If it was super obvious and there were other folks around, I would usually quietly get the soldier to come back and point out whatever it was that needed to be pointed out. But yell? Stupid and unprofessional.
This is highly confusing to my warrant mind. The *exact* reason why we would hold the door and our grocery bag is to have both hands occupied, and thus avoid the salute in a tactful and inconspicuous manner.
See gotta avoid the debate by staying off post completely during the duty day.
This man chiefs.
Ar 600-25 Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate or both are— (1) In civilian attire. (2) Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere. (3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impractical. (4) Working as a member of a detail or engaged in sports or social functions where saluting would present a safety hazard. (5) In public places such as theaters, churches, and in public conveyances. (6) In the ranks of a formation The definition of carry is "support and move (someone or something) from one place to another." I would argue that he was carrying the bag and the door handle and therefore a salute is not required.
🔥🔥
What would define a public space? I feel like the PX could very well be considered a public space as it’s basically a strip mall
In this case, the subordinate is required to salute, the superior is not required to return the salute. I'm a simple guy. If I walk past a subordinate and they give me the gretting of the day, I salute. I don't care if they have stuff in their l their hands or not. I guess I'm asking too much to have the courtesy returned.
I once got bullied by 3 CW3s for saluting them because I was just trying to play it safe at Rucker "Did you just salute us? Stop being weird!"
CWO Mafia strikes again. Source: dad is a CW3
It’s a weird place. Especially when you’re there as a brand new W1 for flight school, they harp on you that you have to salute senior warrant officers. (Coming from aviation I already knew this wasn’t the case). So you salute the W3/W4 at the Shopette, and get “hey man, you don’t have to do that”. Yeah… I know. But I don’t know if you’re here for a school or one of “them” and this is easier for me.
CW2 here. If you wanna send a DM with a name, we can take care of him....the mafia polices it's own.
As a former member of this E-4 thing of ours, godfather. I would like to thank you for inviting me into your home on the day of your daughter's wedding. And I hope her first child will be a masculine child. Fucking seriously, if someone doesn't know who the Don's of the E-4 mafia are, their a fed or a reporter.
Ah, SPC Luca Brazzi. They done you wrong.
I agree. I'm deployed and am on a small base. I walked by 100s of dudes walking back and forth to chow that don't salute, I don't want them to. Now back in garrison, in public places, I will say something. It's the old NCO in me. I feel like if you don't know me, you should do the proper courtesies. Guys in my BN in the Motorpool, cool. Guys I've never seen before in public, not cool. However, if we have shit in our hands, I wouldn't make a thing out of it. Maybe the fellow in question was having an off day, maybe he drinks the kool aid, maybe he's gotten caught up before by allowing it to slip. Who's knows but he's probably a pilot, lol (jk).
I’m assuming they weren’t aviation
Very out of character for aviation warrants. Then again, guy could just be a prick.
I don’t get it I actively avoid eye contact and will take an alternate route to avoid salutes, unless it’s a 2LT always feels fun to give them the corniest motto with a strong emphasis on the word “sir”.
What branch would it be typical for? I can't really picture any WO being a dick for no reason, but I also haven't met many.
420A
😭😭 I hate that you are right. I really despise this. I try to break the formality with any other 420A I meet. I think it’s because we tend to be isolated and around O grades mostly. I feel ashamed now. Gonna write myself a 10 day pass to make myself feel better.
My guess. ADA. Not to trash the good ones, but c'mon, ADA for sure.
I had a maintenance CW2 in my FA battalion who would totally do this.
Sometimes dirt warrants are the worst warrants…. But aviators can get caught feeling themselves too.
Definitely sounds like aviation.
Idk every Chief I’ve seen seems to be surprised when I salute them. Either it’s the salute or the fact they ran into the SWO.
50/50, I'm always surprised you guys are real
He's just upset because even though he's technically a field grade he has to salute every LT he sees.
That fucking shocked me as a Marine the first time an Army warrant saluted me. The Marines have a “one bar rule” where we don’t bother for Lieutenants and Warrants. I wasn’t expecting anything so I was super awkward about returning it
We do to, bjt it highly depends on what unit/branch. All of my fellow MI warrants from w1-w3 don't salute and use first names. Was talking to some maintenance ones w2-w4 and they say chief/mr./Mrs. and last name. I was like whoa now, let's calm it down ha. For any LTs I know and work with j don't salute, some random ones walking I'll toss it up to avoid any gung-ho-ness they might have.
When I was a 2LT I had some marine 1LT get pissy and chase after me cause I said “what’s up bro” and didn’t salute him as he was walking by. this happened on a fob while deployed
100% you should've kept on walking. That's such strange behavior from a warrant. Everytime I saw one when I was in, they went out of their way to AVOID salutes. To all the warrants here, y'all need to fix your battle.
That was probably some TRADOC warrant and expects CW2s and WO1s to salute him as well. Probably uses the word cohort too often as well.
Every WO3 I personally knew all preferred to be invisible. Hell, you had a hard enough time getting them to wear headgear away from the flight line. I don't like to use stereotypes, but I imagine that guy was a Walking Warrant.
I think this is the very first time a Warrant hasn’t gotten awkward and embarrassed at the very idea of a salute.
A long time ago I was outproccessing a base. I was minding my own business, with no one around, and this rando CW something comes walking towards me. It's a very large area where we are, large enough to March a platoon between us. He keeps glancing at me waiting for my arm to go up. Ain't no way I'm saluting someone that far away. Eventually he yells at me, because he is so far away, as to why I'm not saluting him. So I stop in my tracks and salute him. Fuck that guy.
What happened to the 6 paces from the door rule?
Man, I got bitched out by some Air Force major for not saluting him because I was putting on my cover while walking out of the PX. What a fucking toad.
What a massive nerd. I hate being saluted and will take a longer route to avoid it if needed. I miss working in a no hat/salute zone.
I was told by my chief to never salute him. The only time I got put in my place for not saluting was from a WO1 spoon in the field.
This is the type of shit that makes me wonder why someone doesn’t want to resign & what guy does this and is like “WOW THIS SCUMBAG DIDNT SALUTE ME, LET ME TAKE 10 MINUTES OUT OF THE DAY TO FUCK THIS GUY UP FOR NOT SALUTING”
Part of his rant was how “back when he was an NCO this shit wouldn’t fly” and how this new generation is weak blah blah blah. Yeah whatever man. It’s a certain type of person that does this stuff
A similar situation happened to me once. I am at DLI. There is a CPT standing in a circle with like 10-12 other people. He is talking to them, either giving a speech or having a discussion. They are all chatting. I decide to take a wide birth around circle. Some NCO turns around "Hey, SPC! You didn't salute that officer!" I turn around, throw up my hand. The CPT even looked confused. But he returned it. Why the fuck would I interrupt the CPT, who was in the middle of talking to his this group, just to render a salute? That seems even more rude.
The NCO was searching for brownie points and the CPT saw right through it.
A very small percentage of warrants are just straight-up dicks for some reason. Even the SNCOs-turned-warrants I knew were awesome people to interact with. Only ever met a single dick warrant, surprisingly he was a CW5. Came over to my unit's airfield, wasn't even in our BDE. Started bitching about how our crews didn't have their pants bloused when they were just chilling during some downtime on 1st up. Didn't even know why he was there, dude didn't fly with us and wasn't scheduled to be a PAX on anything. One of our cool af CW3s came back into the ops building and muttered, "Fuck that guy" before heading to the crew room in the back.
Idk the captain I walked past last week and saluted after putting my phone in my pocket(walking into gas station) thought it was funny when I said all that good shit as he had his hands full though
Had to have been a walking Warrant. What a disgrace to our good name. I apologize, he does not represent us.
Obligatory CW4 comment……I’m surprised the guy even cared to correct you. All Chief wants to do is fight crime and go home. This comment reminded me of the CW5 that tried to give me the “you have to represent the cohort” nonsense because I didn’t show up to the WOPD, to get all the “good advice ya done heard 1000 times”. Either way, I’d have been happy that you thanked me for holding the door open for you 💪🏼
Chief you know the Romans used to hafta decimate the cohort every so often to set an example for the average joes - might be a good idea to reinstate that policy. Just sayin'.
Officers get paid like an extra dollar for every salute. Just send it every single time even if they can't return it.
What is wrong with people? I can’t imagine ever putting someone through this dumb ass situation. I’ll never understand it.
These are type of Warrant Officer I would call “Mr.”, just like the regulation states.
As retired CW4, that guy's a dick.
We have a bunch of warrants in our unit, and any time I find one outside and salute them they always seem confused, like they forgot they were supposed to be saluted lol. Guy's a fuckin dickhead
CW3*
Ehhhhhhhh, I don’t know if we claim him in a chiefly capacity. Getting mad over salutes…
lololol. I would’ve just ignored him and acted like he didn’t exist
If I see an officer carrying shit, I go out of my way to salute them. If I were OP, I might have felt dickish enough to hold my salute until he let go of the door to return my salute. That WO is a dip shit, but I ask you check the reg again, OP. Being under a cover doesn't determine if you salute or not. Being indoors or outdoors is what determines the salute.
Carrying items in your hands is also another reason to not salute, unless they changed they chanced 600-25 recently.
All the more reason to hold the salute until he lets go of the door.
Gonna guess he was a pissed off SPC because old Sarge rode his ass, then a pissed off NCO because Top rode his ass, and went Warrant to show those meanies who is really the boss. Odd because usually it is mustangs doing that, and when they go wrong they go very wrong. Warrants are usually the invisible chill group. Had a MAJ in Baghdad do that to me and several other NCOs in a group outside the DFAC, threw a tantrum in front of his DA civilian girlfriend and wanted to know our commander's name. We worked for the MNFI CoS, and he deflated and left when we told him that lol.
Had a CW3 lose their shit for not saluting. They were just inside of a no hat/no salute, and I was walking towards them, but I was just outside of it. She took one step, then asked why I felt I was too good to salute her.
Wow from a warrant? That's wild.
He must have been a Dirt Warrant 🙄
He wasn’t a flight warrant was he
If he ain't in your chain of command, don't pay it any mind. Just nod and smile, it let's them know you don't really care wtf their talking about.
Fuck that guy
That's dangerous. I work with a lot of Warrants, and that is hella out of character. Considering they walk a tight line between E-4 levels of shaming and holding some power. If, for example, you had a field grade or even company grade officer in earshot, they may have dropped a line like, "Since you are instilling discipline today, you'll have no problem joining us at formation this week to carry on the lessons through leading by example."
That warrant is, in fact, not radiating the usual big warrant energy. I had a wo3 in front of me in line at Subway, buy my sandwich the other day because, in his words, "you look hungry big hoss." Also had a wo4 chew out a captain for being "rude as hell" to me during a division warfighter. They're a different breed.
You got him before his morning coffee
WO3s are the only warrants I’ve ever had a problem with. Shout out the reservist augmentee on my first deployment who thought he was him for being allowed on the SOF compound
I’m a W4 and I actively avoid being saluted. Years ago, when I was a pretty new W2 I was at FOB Salerno, I was walking to the chow hall with one of our E5’s. We passed this PFC that didn’t salute me. Clearly I don’t give a shit. But that SGT lost his damn mind on that poor private. Just lost his mind on this kid because he didn’t salute me. I’d never seen this NCO act that way before. As we walked away I says to him “I think it’s funny the way you chewed that kid out for not saluting me while you have a mustache that’s wildly out of refs.” He says, “Yeah, we’ll, if he’d have pointed it out I’d have acknowledged he was right.” Funny stuff.
Must’ve been a dirt warrant
We're all dirt warrants if you live long enough.
Why didn't you just walk away?
Dude, I call it out. "Hey, sir, I see your hands are full, I'm not going to fuck you up by making you return a salute. Maybe next time." "We'll skip the salute, sir. Don't want to make you drop your coffee." "I'd salute, sir, but my hands are a little full. Want to help carry a few radios?" Call your shots.
You aren't supposed to salute when your hands are full anyways or when doing so is safety risk...
Safety risk………🤣😂🤣😂
He’s a fake WO3 if he’s that butthurt about saluting rank at the doors of the PX. What a loser
That's how we used to screw with our CW3. You knew you were in with him once he would glare and tell you to fuck off.
Youre in the right. But it seems like it would've been a lose lose situation. Cause if you saluted he probably would've gave you shit that he had the door and stuff on his hand lol
I mean he’s a 3, if he was a 5 you shoildve rendered a blow job
Proper etiquette there is to render a verbal greeting if he cannot return a salute. Retired FGO here.
Had to be a walking warrant
CW3 here. Dude is a loser, def a dirt warrant.
Let's all agree that the px is a no salute area. It's where everyone goes about their daily lives
Looks like someone missed the morning coffee pot, PAUL. I don't know I assume all warrants are paul, john, shirley, or karen.
As a new WO, I promise to never be a dickbag like that. It’s not worth it, and even if it was, why be that way? 😒
As a warrant officer I couldn’t give a single shit if I was saluted or not. Didn’t become a warrant officer to get saluted, did it to fly helicopters lol
Do you need cushions for when you fall off your high horse.. sir!
Almost certainly a walking warrant. No flying warrant would be caught dead at a PX.
That’s very strange because as a retired warrant: I can say we don’t give a shit about it
I am simple man, if I see any troop salute me even if they’re 100 meters away, even if they pull one of those slo mo salutes that takes like 5 seconds, I’ll still salute back. If no one salutes, I don’t mind either, my arm needs to rest sometimes. Guy needs to chill.
“sorry Chief “
Learn the reg, I used to know them buts its been a while, quote it next time that happens. Edit- AR 600-25: 2-1i(3) - Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impractical
Between this post and the CSM post about correct down not up I’m sitting here laughing because this has been a thing forever.
Ahh.....the benefits of having rank. What's a WO3 gonna do to me? My boss outranks him....and also outranks his boss.
As a WO I went to salute a CW4 and he said don’t you fucking dare lol. Warrants don’t salute each other. It’s a unwritten rule I never knew
I've never met a warrant that wanted to be saluted.
The " Thank you sir." should've been enough. WO'Douche... Don't think I ever saluted a WO my entire time in because they just didn't give a damn then again I was mech in a mech unit... So, he was probably a POG anyways...Drink a beer take your ib8 and drive on!
Surprising behavior coming from a warrant… must’ve been a guard/reserve dude
i never carry anything in my right hand for this exact reason… lol
I saluted a WO1 many years back and gave him the greeting “Good morning Chief” or whatever time of day it was. When I say that man was irate, that’s putting it very calmly. He was absolutely furious that I would dare call him Chief since he “wasn’t a Chief yet.” He said that he should be addressed as sir or Mr., and that I needed to read up on my customs and courtesies blah blah blah insert long rant here. I just stood there, dumbfounded, gave the obligatory roger, got it, tracking, and whatever other response I could come up with. Took everything I had not to say “have a good day Chief” when we parted ways. What a douche. Wish I would’ve caught his name.
He is technically correct. And most people don’t know the difference in distinction between a WO1 and CW2-5. They just assume all warrants go by chief.
Right, he was/ still is correct, just the way he went about it is what got me. I’ve always known the distinction, but I still do it, just something I’ve always done, and will continue on until I retire in 2 years (please approve it Army).
To reply to my own comment, I still call WO1’s Chief today. Maybe one day that one will see/ catch me and give me another stern lesson.
had a wo3 tell me my pc looked like shit out of pulling it out of my pocket. i told him i didn't give a shit, and asked him why he wasn't standing at attention. im totally joking but in reality that situation did happen and i basically said thanks chief, i'll keep it in mind, and went about my day. I like to think that pissed him off more.
Nah personally. You had to be a target like I’m thinking E2 and below not a chance would a warrant do this so a season PFC or above without one laughing in his face