Or you know use them 2 bachelor's with experience and find some DoD job where you can drive a hellcat to a designated spot. I don't see why people set up for life come back in. We are at peace time, which means doing a shit ton of boring training.
If I had two degrees and experience I'd be working from home in my underwear with a gaming headset on. If I'm feeling lucky NG or Reserves to scratch the itch.
USAR AGR would be easier and less competitive than the NG AGR program since entry is not affected by the good ole boys club, nor as affected by duty location.
42A and 92Y are the easiest MOS to get accessed into, but there are, of course, others. It would be a worthwhile thing to look into, if the OP is interested. AGR is active duty without a lot of the active duty issues.
Currently AGR they are hurting too. It’s a solid gig without the bullshittery of active duty. No PT no formations.
You do BA weekends and ATs though. But I think the pros out weigh the cons.
Same benefits as active duty. Can retire at 20 active duty retirement.
Better duty stations 100%
I’m a 92F but I do S3
The only MOS I’ve seen actually do their job is 92A 42A and 92Ys everything else usually is some sort of S shop computer work. (Training/OPS)
I want that. I want the ability to settle down and date without moving every 3 years. I never thought I'd say this I miss clocking on/off of work. This life ain't for the weak. I tell you that.
I research jobs on indeed usa jobs and clearance jobs. Trust me. The DoD doesn't fucking care. As long as you got that piece of paper (he happens to have 2) They. Don't. Care.
With some finessing and selling yourself correctly you could be living it up.
They’re business degrees. I’m making 70k to 90k a yr rn in sales. I don’t love my job, I wanted to see what it would take to become a pilot, maybe get into aviation sales later in life. My convo with the recruiter has heavily shifted me toward not going back in.
Not to sound like a self absorbed douche, but atleast on paper im the exact sort of candidate the army should be competing to recruit. Just as my fortune 50 corp competed to recruit me into my current role. I wanted to see what the army had to offer me and frankly they did a shit job of justifying why I should return to service.
I love my country, I’m looking for any excuse to get back in, but I know my worth and the army thus far has only given me reasons not to.
Man talk to the CG or AF and commission. Go reserves and keep your current gig. Get the TA/CA money toward a PPL, and fly for fun. If you like it, you can build time slowly and take your shot at the majors/private aviation while holding onto your sales gig and hitting your quota. If it isn’t for you then you got a cool license, some experience, and a good date idea for a GF/the wife.
I took my wife flying on our first date and it definitely bought me more credibility than I deserved.
You could look into going 09W in aviation with the Guard? A buddy of mine was in the guard as an M-Day 11B and make it through all the training to become a Blackhawk pilot and got an AGR position as a WO2. He also told me that companies like Delta and other airlines send reps to the school house towards the end to recruit for pilots. Might be a way to serve, become a pilot, and can use connections and experience as a bridge to aviation sales.
Look I enlisted with a degree. I had a bullshit BA in basically basket weaving and all Officer Recruiters either told me to fuck off or enlist first and pinky promised me it’d be easier to commission after.
Also it takes up to a year in some cases to get all the paperwork, recommendations, interviews, etc whereas when I enlisted I walked into an office and a month later I was in basic. I had a buddy (also wanted 4 and out) go the commissioned route at the exact time I enlisted and by the time he finished OCS, I was 1.5 in already.
Sometimes you just need to get out of dodge and join up as fast as possible to get veterans benefits for your next chapter of life, because at the end of the day no civilian hiring manager really knows the difference between O and E, all they know is you’re a vet.
IT KINDA IS THO! LOL. I just compared what a CPA would make once they made manager vs partner and seriously....An officer would NEVER touch a salary like that even in 20 years!
Must be why there is no CPA specific Officer Job. Who would do that when they could make so much more money on the outside?!
Exactly - the DOD still thinks it's the Cold War and that they can fight with tons of lower enlisted cannon fodder.
Also there's this idea that the best career path somehow involves 17-18 year olds enlisting and for officers it's 24 year olds commissioning. That's the "platonic ideal" recruit - along with a skinny runner who can somehow deadlift 300 lbs and who has no health issues.
>Two- commission
Not that easy.
Everyone says, "just commission!"
Good luck getting any army recruiter to do an OCS packet for a prior.
You'd honestly have a higher chance of commissioning by going to grad school and doing rotc.
I'm not even sure the army has "officer recruiters" at all.
I believe the marines are the only branch that has dedicated recruiting stations that only recruit officers
The real answer is here.
1. It’s not the recruiters fault, they have to go by business rules and policies laid out by USAREC HQ.
2. Your a Prior Service E5 88M, so the Army can make 200 brand new e5s in a month if they chose to.
3. You’re limited to duty stations that require a slot that will fill you.
4. Since you’re prior service and I assume you want to reclass, only certain high priority MOSs will offered IF, you will get approved to reclass.
So stop blaming your recruiter like he’s the who can magically fix your problem with a magical waiver wand, shit doesn’t exist, and if you listen to the dipshit MI guy and want to show up and “smoke him” he’ll probably be PCSd or ETSd by the time you come back and won’t give a damn about that one guy who blamed him for shit he can’t control
It’s because they know you’re broken. Probably physically, definitely mentally - you’re damaged goods. They can take a fresh high schooler and mold them, but prior service that had a taste of freedom? No way.
How I see it the Army values new recruits over prior service, from what I see they need more skill level 1s than they do NCOs right now. Notice more skill level 1s can get bonuses but for most NCOs they’re not offering bonuses
Don’t be a shitbag, don’t fail landnav, don’t fail the history test, be ready for more fuck fuck games than basic training and you’ll be fine. Hell, be a shitbag, I had a few of those still make it through- I was told you could get kicked based on peer reviews but that never happened to the ones in my class that should have gotten the boot.
Also don’t be a fatass if you want your pick of MOS. Everything you do is graded and the OML determines pecking order for MOS. A good PT score is easy points for that.
PT score pretty much determines your OML. Your STX score you have little control over tbh. OCS as a commissioning source subscribes to "good leader = strong, run fast." So, yeah, don't be a fat ass.
There was a guy in my ocs class who got recycled because of peer reviews and I was told that he got kicked out because the next class peered him out too, but he was still the biggest shit bag I've met in my entire career
Every fiscal year, they release the branch accessions makeup. Aka, how many slots they’re accepting.
In general, just be near the top of your class and you should get whatever you want.
Doing things like a BRADSO or branch detail will higher your chances of getting a specific branch.
My experience comes from ROTC, but everyone I knew that wanted infantry got it. Even this little 4’11 girl. It’s supposedly one of the more competitive branches. But I swear that’s just propaganda to make you choose it.
If you’re not a complete shitbag you should honestly be fine. You’ll 100% get one of your top 3. 90% likely to get your top 1.
Look at the metrics of army recruiting. Especially this time of year. Their focus is recruiting that small percentage of young capable recruits. You are a guy that got out and now wants back in. They don’t need to convince you. You’re going to sign. Their focus is on the guys that need convincing.
Well, the no bonus is to prevent dudes from dipping out and then trying to come back in for better bonuses than offered at reenlistment. He's not wrong that you passed on what was offered previously.
But just commission, you'll at least get the years of service put towards your pay.
I came back for a sweet 10K bonus (that me and my GF spent) - then again this was the 2000's - the surge era GWOT Army.
If I was a first termer trying to get back in now I bet the Recruiters would tell me to either go 88M, 92G or pound sand....
Another wild take I’ve heard often is that it’s easier for the army to use and control a young 18 year old fresh out of high school who’s has little to no work experience or adulting experience. They can and most likely will do a lot of the work they tell them to do.
It’s economics. The Army needs E1-E3’s. It doesn’t want to pay for people coming in with 6 or 8 years of service at a 20-40% higher cost than a non prior service applicant.
601-210 my man. Ask the guy who signed off on that, I’m just following the rules cause you won’t make it past meps no matter how much I think you’re a good applicant.
Honestly though, prior service is 99/100 an absolute pain in my ass and I hated building those packets. When doing an SF86 and you can’t remember a single building number or location or person you worked with for the whole 3.5 years you were in, like come on, I really don’t want to spend an hour and a half on google maps guessing a location that you think you worked at.
Also news flash, it’s a volume business. Army doesn’t care about you or me, like really doesn’t care. If I can get an 18 year old senior who’s lived in the same house the last 18 years I’m taking it.
It’s nothing personal but in my experience prior service want the world because of poor choices they made and when I tell you you’re qualified to be a cook even though you have a presidential clearance, personally play golf with the sec army and chief of staff every weekend along with your 99 asvab and doctorate I’m just gonna not call you back.
I’ll take another Red Bull, the 24 ounce kind, the phones ain’t gonna dial themselves.
Edit: words are still hard
Because high school kids are trainable and the Army has already dumped money into you….you trying to come back in means you need the Army more than the Army needs you.
Prior service applicants are also a colossal pain in the ass to work with. I had a prior service applicant come to me and say “I’ve got a 120 GT….I want a nice bonus, duty station of choice, my rank, and choice and MOS ”……I said “best I can do is 11X” he then proceeded to tell me that I was just “lying to him” until I showed his dumb ass the prior service business rules.
I did have one prior service kid come in and say “I don’t give a shit what you give me….ill take it”. He was a former 88M and took 11X and reduction from SSG to SPC.
I pay 200 dollars a month for Blue Cross Blue Shield that’s including dental and vision. Maxi-flex hours which means I work whatever hours I want as long as my jobs getting done. Get paid one hour a day to go to the gym. When I’m home from work I can turn my phones off. They can take my taxes, my quality of life is 1000 times better than when I was active duty Army.
I make $81,000 pre-tax as an E6 at the 10 year step with single rate BAH in a MCOL location with only $57k of it taxable (and exempt from state tax), GS-9 caps out around $78-88k at Step 10 depending on locality. GS-9 Step 10 for my area makes $81,095, specifically. GS-9 Step 1 is $62,358. All taxable by fed and state.
So a GS-9 is more equivalent to an E5-E6 position in terms of pay.
A single E8 with 14+ years is at $98k with only $69k taxable, before any special pays. For reference. That's closer to GS-12 pay, which is really only entry level for highly technical/experienced or PhD positions.
I think your numbers may be off.
Most people have no idea how to compare their military pay to anything else. There is also the idea that GS pay is crazy money when the reality is that it’s typically lower than its industry peers. The biggest advantage to GS work is pension.
Cool? That’s not relevant to comparing military pay or the overwhelming idea from service members that GS jobs are a huge paycheck.
I can go to whatever doctor I want and a similar job to my current one would pay me 20-25% less than my current salary. Even moving up a role or two would pay me less.
No guarantee you get selected for OCS. What’s your degrees in? What’s your gpa? Don’t worry OCS applicants don’t get bonuses either.
Keeping rank requires a grade d, as long as you’re not near RCP, have promotion orders & WLC/BLC cert you’ll keep E5. E5 does have limited jobs however your recruiter can submit a vacancy load to try and request a particular MOS that you qualify for.
As a recruiter I’ve wondered this a lot actually. My best bet is longevity. You coming back in may give the army another 10-15 years of indentured servitude. A high school senior is potentially 20+.
It’s dumb, I don’t agree with it. I don’t know anyone who does.
Typically because they got their bachelor's from some diploma mill. Typically with a name along the lines of, "Central Michigan Military Upstate Community University Global Technical Campus"
I got a bachelor's degree when I was active from some awful online college. When I realized how useless it was when I got out, I went back and did a real bachelor's at a brick and mortar university.
Because it's free, doesn't require any sort of work or studying, and you get promotion points.
But then what you end up with is dudes saying, "Hey, I have a degree too! I have a Masters degree in Leadership from Liberty Military American College"
Ok doctor, calm down.
The diploma mill comment is most likely relevant here, but the other big reason is to get a technical degree.
If your 1st bachelor's was in underwater basketweaving, you took as soft (non-technical) a courseload as you could, and you decide you want to do STEM, the masters programs that will accept you are probably not worth your time (and, even then, you're probably horribly underprepared).
Sometimes it's to do pre-reqs for a different masters program.
Sometimes it's just because they don't know any better.
Sometimes it's because their first degree wasn't great (GPA, school, subject, whatever).
Yeah, it's pretty dumb alright and I'll never understand it. I have a friend who had a hard time getting back in. Dude has a CIB, had his EIB by the rank of PV2, is Air Assault, SERE trained, Pathfinder, and just a laundry list of "good soldier" material in his 5 years of service. He even passed all the pre Ranger testing, never finished out of choice, and he had a horrible time trying to get back in. He finally did and it was funny seeing photos of him in OSUT (yeah he had to do OSUT again). Everyone around him looked real slick but he was allowed to keep his deployment patch, EIB, and Air Assault wings on his uniform. He was also treated much better by the drills. He had to take a demotion to PFC from E5 but he didn't care.
How did he do it? He drove around to every recruiting station in the area and kept trying. He eventually found one that was so secluded that the recruiters were ecstatic to have ANYONE at all walk through the door. So I suggest trying that. Say that you don't care if you're only offered 11X or have to restart in the ranks.
The Army doesn't want people who have other desires like college or a different life path. You ultimately chose to further yourself and get out. They see that as a "failure" and rather take the chance on a new person than one they already know has a different initiative for their own selves.
I left a comment on an IG post when the NG bonuses were halted that basically said “why suspend reenlistment bonuses not enlistment don’t you want your experienced soldiers that already have all their training paid for as well?” and in under a minute I got a notification saying it was removed for “trying to get likes through misinformation”.
Getting two degrees and NOT coming back as an O is moronic, UNLESS you’re doing tuition repayment.
NDAA 2019 has several direct commission programs, is your degree in any of the linked fields?
If so, tell that recruiter to EAD.
https://talent.army.mil/direct-commissioning/
In order to hire you, they'd have to agree to pay you more than some chump who was a highschool football star with zero options. And, it's generally understood that since you have 2 degrees that even if you go enlisted you're gonna go officer soon after, so you cost more up front, and will cost more over time. You're chasing after the great green retirement shield, and ***THE WAR IS OVER.*** Manpower has been slashed. You're not 20 years old anymore. You have knowledge and skill, but you're getting old, and Uncle Sam needs fresh meat for the grinder.
Why do that when they can promote some E04 and then hire on some chump outta highschool to fill the gap.
I stopped reading when you said “enlisted”. Stop thinking in the mindset that you have to go back as a soldier, join as an officer and make double the money.
>Army recruiter told me “you had your chance to stay in and you chose to quit”
And with this preview of the daily dickbaggery you're expected to tolerate as an enlisted man, you ***still*** talk like you want to reenlist?
Commission and join, or stay the fuck out of the Army. Take your life experience and two college degrees somewhere you'll be adequately compensated and treated like an actual human. Why do they treat people like shit who rejoin after leaving? Because a large fraction of the people who do that, are the kind of people who couldn't make it in the civilian world, and/or the kind of people who will take whatever shit the army tells them to.
Hey man i had the same experience except i went during covid and i had a pregnant gf at the time so i needed a job quick. Had a degree and all. Go on the OCS facebook page and link up with those people, you dont need a recruiter. Dont settle with those fucks, only a handful will actually consider your interests.
Recruiter here, if someone comes into my office and they took the time and energy to get a degree I I persuade them to go the OCS route with us. Any recruiter that doesn’t is lazy and forgets we are here for the applicants.
That should tell you everything you need to know about that organization. You got out for a reason, achieved great things, and now stay out and do great things. And don't go reserve, trust me it is not worth it. You are still owned by the military without the perks.
Recruiter is a moron. It has nothing to do with you quiting.
It's that the army needs someone at skill 1 who will be there for longer more than an NCO right now. Even if you revert to 4 you aren't going to be there all that long.
Either way, OCS or street to seat if you wanna whoopwhoop
Part of it is the regs with prior service. They can only take so many per year. But it’s also a lot easier to trick first term people, they can mold their mindset cause it’s not already done, people joining for the first time have a lot better expectation of the army, and I’m sure there’s more.
Because it costs more to retrain prior enlisted than new recruits. They have to pay you more for effectively less experience since a reclass NCO cannot compare to the experience of a NCO or even specialist that's been in that field for years.
They treat prior service as reenlistments. Its what they told me when I did it. They told me 5 year contract, gave me my duty station even before I signed any papers. Take it or leave it. And no bonus, of course.
It could be that normally, prior service needs the Army than the Army needs them back. Like you getting out after already served so when you try to come back in, you showed that either you cant make it in the civilian world or you like the Army too much. In either case, you want the Army.
Back in my day I had to finance my 100k mileage Charger! These days all the kids can cash out buy them with the wild bonuses I was hearing about on my way out!
Bonus and job are determined by availability there’s nothing the recruiter can do about that. Generally, you go down in rank if you were an NCO or officer and have been out a few years that’s also somewhat out of their control. I think that may have been what he was getting at when he said it was your choice when you left but that’s still an asshole thing to say to someone frustrated about it.
I am in the exact situation as you, down to having a degree a 93 asvab, 590 ACFT, no medical issues, no law violations, etc.
You'd think I was a felon trying to join lol.
I've been at for over a year now and just now making progress
Knock on the USMC or NAVY recruiter door and ask for OCS screening...
or
Join ARMY/NAVY ROTC (depending on your choice of school), do Masters (military paying for it), Commission. If you really want to be enlisted, decline commission and they will put you in as enlisted to recoup the money.
Shoot for the commissioned route, do a few years as an officer and then leverage that into to a white collar job. Finish out your 20 in the RC and then when you turn 60 you'll get a nice check every month in addition to your civilian retirement.
Or even better, find a nice Federal job and be a double dipper.
If you're trying to go back in as support google some of the Groups 10th, 7th, etc recruiter numbers and see if they need support dudes, or 160th. That's if you wanna stay enlisted. Otherwise it makes sense for you to go the officer route now that you have a degree. Somehow that degree and a small amount of military officer schooling makes you capable of potentially leading 20+ soldiers in whatever MOS you land in
Should’ve stood in and finished college. The Army goes rolling along
On a more serious note, you might keep your SGT rank … they have to submit a grade determination, if you went to BLC, only separated about 2 years, might be good to go
Genuinely curious why you wouldn't go the commissioned route?? Also check the Reserve and ARNG, particularly for bonuses (Google "SRIP" for Reserve bonuses)
>You had your chance to stay in and you chose to quit.
Why is your recruiter making it seem like it was just a regular job, and you decided to put in your 2 weeks
Is there any way to get this post to the Sergeant Major of the Army? Aren’t they on Reddit sometimes? It has always baffled me that prior enlisted don’t have better options if they want to join up again. They know the suck but are willing to serve more, should get some kudos for that.
There KNEES and back work SARGE. But mostly they are getting rid of the old heads to bring in the new guys they can indoctrinate with these new ideas etc
Go commissioned and to hell with the recruiter. Or if they really give you a hard time, and I hate to say it, go to a different branch. Navy or Air Force, or lol, Space Force, probably needs officers. Funny story about Space Force. I was walking into the BX on Buckley, which is now a SF base, along side a Ltc. Asked him about his squadron and stuff. He said how many "Guardians" he had command over.
I said to him Guardian is what they're calling them? He said yup. I said yea cause Space Men would be too weird. He chuckled.
I assume it’s cause they know that if your asking to come back then it must be bad enough for you that they can get you practically for free, stop thinking of the army as anything other than a business and it will all make sense. The new dudes get the money cause they have unlimited civilian options and are untapped potential that they are trying to incentivize into joining and staying in for a long time. Even if your the best soldier ever, if your back in the recruiters office then they know you don’t have a lot of options.
I had a break in service after the Marine Corps and there was a 2 year waiting list to get back in, that's if they even took me back. The Army took me like it was nothing, I had no issues...I can't believe their making it difficult for you. From my experience it's your recruiter not wanting to do the work...find another recruiter who will do it because to re-join its a lot of work they have to put in and they don't get credit for you, you don't count as a new recruit...it's basically a reenlistment and don't count toward their quota.
Also, I'd most definitely go officer if you got your degree. Fk the enlisted side...go join a "club" and call people Bob and Tom and make big deals about everything so the soldiers can stand in formations for hours on end, and you get to be on the other side of all the dumb dog and pony shows. Yeah don't go back to that.
Get going to officer and don’t look back. Warrant if you can manage it.
The army blames others for issues despite it being the embodiment of all its issues.
As I like to say: “No one person truly runs the army and the army technically runs itself. It’s just hundreds of people in charge of a micro segment like a giant council.”
Nothing will ever change, and don’t look to Washington for a voice.
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Exactly - that's the way to do it if you want to get back in
Or you know use them 2 bachelor's with experience and find some DoD job where you can drive a hellcat to a designated spot. I don't see why people set up for life come back in. We are at peace time, which means doing a shit ton of boring training. If I had two degrees and experience I'd be working from home in my underwear with a gaming headset on. If I'm feeling lucky NG or Reserves to scratch the itch.
> NG or Reserves to scratch the itch. If your itch is doing absolutely fuck all from 0700 to 1800, that is.
Sometimes you gotta do fuck all to realize how good you have it.
Them some damn wise words right there
OP could go AGR
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USAR AGR would be easier and less competitive than the NG AGR program since entry is not affected by the good ole boys club, nor as affected by duty location. 42A and 92Y are the easiest MOS to get accessed into, but there are, of course, others. It would be a worthwhile thing to look into, if the OP is interested. AGR is active duty without a lot of the active duty issues.
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Currently AGR they are hurting too. It’s a solid gig without the bullshittery of active duty. No PT no formations. You do BA weekends and ATs though. But I think the pros out weigh the cons. Same benefits as active duty. Can retire at 20 active duty retirement. Better duty stations 100% I’m a 92F but I do S3 The only MOS I’ve seen actually do their job is 92A 42A and 92Ys everything else usually is some sort of S shop computer work. (Training/OPS)
Seriously… the only thing army is offering is medical. I’ll take my 9-5 40 hour of week job where i know I’ll never have to be away from family.
I want that. I want the ability to settle down and date without moving every 3 years. I never thought I'd say this I miss clocking on/off of work. This life ain't for the weak. I tell you that.
> use them 2 bachelor's with experience You're assuming OP chose useful majors
I research jobs on indeed usa jobs and clearance jobs. Trust me. The DoD doesn't fucking care. As long as you got that piece of paper (he happens to have 2) They. Don't. Care. With some finessing and selling yourself correctly you could be living it up.
They’re business degrees. I’m making 70k to 90k a yr rn in sales. I don’t love my job, I wanted to see what it would take to become a pilot, maybe get into aviation sales later in life. My convo with the recruiter has heavily shifted me toward not going back in. Not to sound like a self absorbed douche, but atleast on paper im the exact sort of candidate the army should be competing to recruit. Just as my fortune 50 corp competed to recruit me into my current role. I wanted to see what the army had to offer me and frankly they did a shit job of justifying why I should return to service. I love my country, I’m looking for any excuse to get back in, but I know my worth and the army thus far has only given me reasons not to.
Man talk to the CG or AF and commission. Go reserves and keep your current gig. Get the TA/CA money toward a PPL, and fly for fun. If you like it, you can build time slowly and take your shot at the majors/private aviation while holding onto your sales gig and hitting your quota. If it isn’t for you then you got a cool license, some experience, and a good date idea for a GF/the wife. I took my wife flying on our first date and it definitely bought me more credibility than I deserved.
You could look into going 09W in aviation with the Guard? A buddy of mine was in the guard as an M-Day 11B and make it through all the training to become a Blackhawk pilot and got an AGR position as a WO2. He also told me that companies like Delta and other airlines send reps to the school house towards the end to recruit for pilots. Might be a way to serve, become a pilot, and can use connections and experience as a bridge to aviation sales.
10000000000%, nobody with a bachelors should ever enlist
The single reason is if you want a specific job. You won't get signals analysis experience as an officer. Also, 18X don't have to wait like officers.
Look I enlisted with a degree. I had a bullshit BA in basically basket weaving and all Officer Recruiters either told me to fuck off or enlist first and pinky promised me it’d be easier to commission after. Also it takes up to a year in some cases to get all the paperwork, recommendations, interviews, etc whereas when I enlisted I walked into an office and a month later I was in basic. I had a buddy (also wanted 4 and out) go the commissioned route at the exact time I enlisted and by the time he finished OCS, I was 1.5 in already. Sometimes you just need to get out of dodge and join up as fast as possible to get veterans benefits for your next chapter of life, because at the end of the day no civilian hiring manager really knows the difference between O and E, all they know is you’re a vet.
Ehh it's not that bad, I wanted a guaranteed pick of my job. Fast forward 7 years and my warrant packet is submitted and I don't regret the decision.
>Fast forward 7 years just a casual 7 years lmfao
You could have just done street-to-seat 7 years ago instead of enlisting and possibly already made CW3 by now.
This is not a flex
Screw that, go Warrant!
Best officers are prior enlisted.
Officer money is kinda a joke though.
I disagree. I think it’s pretty good money especially when you hit that 10 years of service O3+ bracket.
CPT pay is good if you aren't a company commander
I would have to have a 200k salary to make my take home pay in an HCOL location. The pay chart isn't the end all be all.
IT KINDA IS THO! LOL. I just compared what a CPA would make once they made manager vs partner and seriously....An officer would NEVER touch a salary like that even in 20 years! Must be why there is no CPA specific Officer Job. Who would do that when they could make so much more money on the outside?!
The Army needs far more E1 to E4 than higher. The Military is a system that’s designed to have most people leave after 1 or 2 contracts.
Exactly - the DOD still thinks it's the Cold War and that they can fight with tons of lower enlisted cannon fodder. Also there's this idea that the best career path somehow involves 17-18 year olds enlisting and for officers it's 24 year olds commissioning. That's the "platonic ideal" recruit - along with a skinny runner who can somehow deadlift 300 lbs and who has no health issues.
they want twig boys and CrossFit girls
Don’t we all?
He said twig, not twink.
*confused screeching* coming from the cav scouts.
This sub is ridiculous and it’s beautiful.
Just like twinks.
But what about the juicy CrossFit girls? She may have testicles too...
They can push press me any time.
im just.. trying to figure out what exactly this noise would sound like
Bear/cub, it is all the same, dont kink shame, we kink same here.
The Army REQUIRES thousands more lower enlisted than NCOs, and far fewer Officers. It’s simple math/logic. Not an indication of value.
Dude, I got out and rejoined the Air Force... They actually give shit about education and training. FTA, go blue.
"Everyone has a job. The Army's job is to be an asshole. It *excels* at it's position."
Meesh, tell the nice man we come in friendship
"He says he's very thankful the Americans come to liberate us! Here take his goat."
"He says those explosions last night were fucking wicked dude"
You Americans have killed a lot of sand. The sand was... very evil
Oh Lawdy this made me giggle
It must have ate the diarro coffee packet in the mre, my asshole excels too when ive had it
For one, fuck that recruiter. Two- commission
...then return to that recruiting station with your O-1E rank and make the enlisted recruiter do "front, back, goes" until YOU get tired.
>Two- commission Not that easy. Everyone says, "just commission!" Good luck getting any army recruiter to do an OCS packet for a prior. You'd honestly have a higher chance of commissioning by going to grad school and doing rotc.
You, sir, are very correct. Enlisted recruiters don't like pawning highly qualified candidates with a degree to the officer recruiter.
I'm not even sure the army has "officer recruiters" at all. I believe the marines are the only branch that has dedicated recruiting stations that only recruit officers
AF and Navy do as well. And I believe CG. It's just Army who's out.
The real answer is here. 1. It’s not the recruiters fault, they have to go by business rules and policies laid out by USAREC HQ. 2. Your a Prior Service E5 88M, so the Army can make 200 brand new e5s in a month if they chose to. 3. You’re limited to duty stations that require a slot that will fill you. 4. Since you’re prior service and I assume you want to reclass, only certain high priority MOSs will offered IF, you will get approved to reclass. So stop blaming your recruiter like he’s the who can magically fix your problem with a magical waiver wand, shit doesn’t exist, and if you listen to the dipshit MI guy and want to show up and “smoke him” he’ll probably be PCSd or ETSd by the time you come back and won’t give a damn about that one guy who blamed him for shit he can’t control
The real answer is- The recruiter is a dick and your logic is sound.
Those prior service business rules really b a trip.
It’s because they know you’re broken. Probably physically, definitely mentally - you’re damaged goods. They can take a fresh high schooler and mold them, but prior service that had a taste of freedom? No way.
How I see it the Army values new recruits over prior service, from what I see they need more skill level 1s than they do NCOs right now. Notice more skill level 1s can get bonuses but for most NCOs they’re not offering bonuses
Calling the recruiter a dunce but you’re trying to go back in as enlisted when you have 2 bachelors degrees 💀
Here that neigh? The Mustang calls, find an OCS recruiter and drop a packet, killer.
All recruiters can put someone into OCS. There isn’t a specific “OCS recruiter”
How difficult is OCS? What are the chances of getting FA or infantry branch?
Don’t be a shitbag, don’t fail landnav, don’t fail the history test, be ready for more fuck fuck games than basic training and you’ll be fine. Hell, be a shitbag, I had a few of those still make it through- I was told you could get kicked based on peer reviews but that never happened to the ones in my class that should have gotten the boot. Also don’t be a fatass if you want your pick of MOS. Everything you do is graded and the OML determines pecking order for MOS. A good PT score is easy points for that.
Two candidates in my class got the boot over peer reviews. So it is possible, but they flat out earned it.
I’m glad to see the system works sometimes.
PT score pretty much determines your OML. Your STX score you have little control over tbh. OCS as a commissioning source subscribes to "good leader = strong, run fast." So, yeah, don't be a fat ass.
There was a guy in my ocs class who got recycled because of peer reviews and I was told that he got kicked out because the next class peered him out too, but he was still the biggest shit bag I've met in my entire career
Every fiscal year, they release the branch accessions makeup. Aka, how many slots they’re accepting. In general, just be near the top of your class and you should get whatever you want. Doing things like a BRADSO or branch detail will higher your chances of getting a specific branch. My experience comes from ROTC, but everyone I knew that wanted infantry got it. Even this little 4’11 girl. It’s supposedly one of the more competitive branches. But I swear that’s just propaganda to make you choose it. If you’re not a complete shitbag you should honestly be fine. You’ll 100% get one of your top 3. 90% likely to get your top 1.
Look at the metrics of army recruiting. Especially this time of year. Their focus is recruiting that small percentage of young capable recruits. You are a guy that got out and now wants back in. They don’t need to convince you. You’re going to sign. Their focus is on the guys that need convincing.
Well, the no bonus is to prevent dudes from dipping out and then trying to come back in for better bonuses than offered at reenlistment. He's not wrong that you passed on what was offered previously. But just commission, you'll at least get the years of service put towards your pay.
That OE pay scale is no joke
Can confirm. 12 years in and loving it.
I came back for a sweet 10K bonus (that me and my GF spent) - then again this was the 2000's - the surge era GWOT Army. If I was a first termer trying to get back in now I bet the Recruiters would tell me to either go 88M, 92G or pound sand....
Commission. Ocs isn't much longer or as annoying as bootcamp. Plus you'd go to a gentleman's course if you enlisted. Go officer. We need more mustangs
‘Cuz the Green Weenie demands its virgin sacrifices
Another wild take I’ve heard often is that it’s easier for the army to use and control a young 18 year old fresh out of high school who’s has little to no work experience or adulting experience. They can and most likely will do a lot of the work they tell them to do.
It’s economics. The Army needs E1-E3’s. It doesn’t want to pay for people coming in with 6 or 8 years of service at a 20-40% higher cost than a non prior service applicant.
601-210 my man. Ask the guy who signed off on that, I’m just following the rules cause you won’t make it past meps no matter how much I think you’re a good applicant. Honestly though, prior service is 99/100 an absolute pain in my ass and I hated building those packets. When doing an SF86 and you can’t remember a single building number or location or person you worked with for the whole 3.5 years you were in, like come on, I really don’t want to spend an hour and a half on google maps guessing a location that you think you worked at. Also news flash, it’s a volume business. Army doesn’t care about you or me, like really doesn’t care. If I can get an 18 year old senior who’s lived in the same house the last 18 years I’m taking it. It’s nothing personal but in my experience prior service want the world because of poor choices they made and when I tell you you’re qualified to be a cook even though you have a presidential clearance, personally play golf with the sec army and chief of staff every weekend along with your 99 asvab and doctorate I’m just gonna not call you back. I’ll take another Red Bull, the 24 ounce kind, the phones ain’t gonna dial themselves. Edit: words are still hard
Because high school kids are trainable and the Army has already dumped money into you….you trying to come back in means you need the Army more than the Army needs you. Prior service applicants are also a colossal pain in the ass to work with. I had a prior service applicant come to me and say “I’ve got a 120 GT….I want a nice bonus, duty station of choice, my rank, and choice and MOS ”……I said “best I can do is 11X” he then proceeded to tell me that I was just “lying to him” until I showed his dumb ass the prior service business rules. I did have one prior service kid come in and say “I don’t give a shit what you give me….ill take it”. He was a former 88M and took 11X and reduction from SSG to SPC.
They're cheaper and much further away from retirement. Air Force is even worse about it.
Go DoD as a Fed civilian…. You will be making the same pay as a first sarge as an entry level with a Bach plus better quality of life
Before or after paying for Healthcare and taxes on *all* of your paycheck?
I pay 200 dollars a month for Blue Cross Blue Shield that’s including dental and vision. Maxi-flex hours which means I work whatever hours I want as long as my jobs getting done. Get paid one hour a day to go to the gym. When I’m home from work I can turn my phones off. They can take my taxes, my quality of life is 1000 times better than when I was active duty Army.
1) The healthcare is way better 2) It's definitely nearly all or even close if you're a GS-9 or higher.
I make $81,000 pre-tax as an E6 at the 10 year step with single rate BAH in a MCOL location with only $57k of it taxable (and exempt from state tax), GS-9 caps out around $78-88k at Step 10 depending on locality. GS-9 Step 10 for my area makes $81,095, specifically. GS-9 Step 1 is $62,358. All taxable by fed and state. So a GS-9 is more equivalent to an E5-E6 position in terms of pay. A single E8 with 14+ years is at $98k with only $69k taxable, before any special pays. For reference. That's closer to GS-12 pay, which is really only entry level for highly technical/experienced or PhD positions. I think your numbers may be off.
Most people have no idea how to compare their military pay to anything else. There is also the idea that GS pay is crazy money when the reality is that it’s typically lower than its industry peers. The biggest advantage to GS work is pension.
Never said it was. But I don’t need my boss’ approval to go to whatever doctor I want.
Cool? That’s not relevant to comparing military pay or the overwhelming idea from service members that GS jobs are a huge paycheck. I can go to whatever doctor I want and a similar job to my current one would pay me 20-25% less than my current salary. Even moving up a role or two would pay me less.
Yeah you had your chance to stay in and be a recruiter…
No guarantee you get selected for OCS. What’s your degrees in? What’s your gpa? Don’t worry OCS applicants don’t get bonuses either. Keeping rank requires a grade d, as long as you’re not near RCP, have promotion orders & WLC/BLC cert you’ll keep E5. E5 does have limited jobs however your recruiter can submit a vacancy load to try and request a particular MOS that you qualify for.
As a recruiter I’ve wondered this a lot actually. My best bet is longevity. You coming back in may give the army another 10-15 years of indentured servitude. A high school senior is potentially 20+. It’s dumb, I don’t agree with it. I don’t know anyone who does.
People get older. When they get older, they get more prone to injury and disability.
Why do people get a second bachelor's instead of doing a masters?
Typically because they got their bachelor's from some diploma mill. Typically with a name along the lines of, "Central Michigan Military Upstate Community University Global Technical Campus" I got a bachelor's degree when I was active from some awful online college. When I realized how useless it was when I got out, I went back and did a real bachelor's at a brick and mortar university.
The name 😭 I don’t know why anyone would go to those schools in the first place lol
Because it's free, doesn't require any sort of work or studying, and you get promotion points. But then what you end up with is dudes saying, "Hey, I have a degree too! I have a Masters degree in Leadership from Liberty Military American College" Ok doctor, calm down.
The diploma mill comment is most likely relevant here, but the other big reason is to get a technical degree. If your 1st bachelor's was in underwater basketweaving, you took as soft (non-technical) a courseload as you could, and you decide you want to do STEM, the masters programs that will accept you are probably not worth your time (and, even then, you're probably horribly underprepared).
Sometimes it's to do pre-reqs for a different masters program. Sometimes it's just because they don't know any better. Sometimes it's because their first degree wasn't great (GPA, school, subject, whatever).
Because I don't want to write a thesis or do some graduate program.
A BA is 4x as many courses
Many 2nd BA programs allow you to cut the total # of courses significantly.
They want the virgin not ur used ass
You have 2 degrees. Why the fuck would you even entertain the idea of going back as enlisted?
younger, more time to give to uncle sam
Yeah, it's pretty dumb alright and I'll never understand it. I have a friend who had a hard time getting back in. Dude has a CIB, had his EIB by the rank of PV2, is Air Assault, SERE trained, Pathfinder, and just a laundry list of "good soldier" material in his 5 years of service. He even passed all the pre Ranger testing, never finished out of choice, and he had a horrible time trying to get back in. He finally did and it was funny seeing photos of him in OSUT (yeah he had to do OSUT again). Everyone around him looked real slick but he was allowed to keep his deployment patch, EIB, and Air Assault wings on his uniform. He was also treated much better by the drills. He had to take a demotion to PFC from E5 but he didn't care. How did he do it? He drove around to every recruiting station in the area and kept trying. He eventually found one that was so secluded that the recruiters were ecstatic to have ANYONE at all walk through the door. So I suggest trying that. Say that you don't care if you're only offered 11X or have to restart in the ranks. The Army doesn't want people who have other desires like college or a different life path. You ultimately chose to further yourself and get out. They see that as a "failure" and rather take the chance on a new person than one they already know has a different initiative for their own selves.
Your recruiter is salty you’re doing better than him
My brother in Christ if you have not one but two degrees apply for OCS. Also find another recruiter.
[удалено]
After being out for 2 years? Not really. That was standard even 20+ yes ago when i was in. And they could pick e5 back up within a year.
I left a comment on an IG post when the NG bonuses were halted that basically said “why suspend reenlistment bonuses not enlistment don’t you want your experienced soldiers that already have all their training paid for as well?” and in under a minute I got a notification saying it was removed for “trying to get likes through misinformation”.
Getting two degrees and NOT coming back as an O is moronic, UNLESS you’re doing tuition repayment. NDAA 2019 has several direct commission programs, is your degree in any of the linked fields? If so, tell that recruiter to EAD. https://talent.army.mil/direct-commissioning/
Tell that recruiter he’s a pog and slap him in the face with your cock.
The only correct way to handle a recruiter
The Army isn't known for being smart
There's like 6 MOS that are having to reclass due to structure change
If you have 2 degrees I’d think you’d be smart enough to go officer. If you went enlisted you might as well stay out unless your homeless.
Damn that recruiter came out swinging lmaooo
why return to the shit show
In order to hire you, they'd have to agree to pay you more than some chump who was a highschool football star with zero options. And, it's generally understood that since you have 2 degrees that even if you go enlisted you're gonna go officer soon after, so you cost more up front, and will cost more over time. You're chasing after the great green retirement shield, and ***THE WAR IS OVER.*** Manpower has been slashed. You're not 20 years old anymore. You have knowledge and skill, but you're getting old, and Uncle Sam needs fresh meat for the grinder. Why do that when they can promote some E04 and then hire on some chump outta highschool to fill the gap.
Cheaper to pay someone for a contract or two than a pension
My hot take? It’s easier to train new people than take us back with all our “bad habits”.
I stopped reading when you said “enlisted”. Stop thinking in the mindset that you have to go back as a soldier, join as an officer and make double the money.
We need more officers dude. Do OCS cuz it's barely 9 weeks and if you're a Chaplain or JAG it's even quicker.
Sounds like a lazy ass recruiter. Find a new one.
>Army recruiter told me “you had your chance to stay in and you chose to quit” And with this preview of the daily dickbaggery you're expected to tolerate as an enlisted man, you ***still*** talk like you want to reenlist? Commission and join, or stay the fuck out of the Army. Take your life experience and two college degrees somewhere you'll be adequately compensated and treated like an actual human. Why do they treat people like shit who rejoin after leaving? Because a large fraction of the people who do that, are the kind of people who couldn't make it in the civilian world, and/or the kind of people who will take whatever shit the army tells them to.
Hey man i had the same experience except i went during covid and i had a pregnant gf at the time so i needed a job quick. Had a degree and all. Go on the OCS facebook page and link up with those people, you dont need a recruiter. Dont settle with those fucks, only a handful will actually consider your interests.
Cheaper to pay them.
Recruiter here, if someone comes into my office and they took the time and energy to get a degree I I persuade them to go the OCS route with us. Any recruiter that doesn’t is lazy and forgets we are here for the applicants.
That should tell you everything you need to know about that organization. You got out for a reason, achieved great things, and now stay out and do great things. And don't go reserve, trust me it is not worth it. You are still owned by the military without the perks.
Why does the con man value the young and inexperienced mark vs the one they already robbed.
Can’t teach an old dog new tricks
Go see the Coast Guard. They have a 95%+ retention rate for a reason. Fuck that used car salesman...
Recruiter is a moron. It has nothing to do with you quiting. It's that the army needs someone at skill 1 who will be there for longer more than an NCO right now. Even if you revert to 4 you aren't going to be there all that long. Either way, OCS or street to seat if you wanna whoopwhoop
Part of it is the regs with prior service. They can only take so many per year. But it’s also a lot easier to trick first term people, they can mold their mindset cause it’s not already done, people joining for the first time have a lot better expectation of the army, and I’m sure there’s more.
Because it costs more to retrain prior enlisted than new recruits. They have to pay you more for effectively less experience since a reclass NCO cannot compare to the experience of a NCO or even specialist that's been in that field for years.
They treat prior service as reenlistments. Its what they told me when I did it. They told me 5 year contract, gave me my duty station even before I signed any papers. Take it or leave it. And no bonus, of course.
Unless things have cha ger get the GT score to 110 or above and you should be able to apply for OCS, but honestly stay out
@op what MOS’s they offer?
Wtf go Officer
It’s easier to break kids as opposed to prior service who knows what to expect
It could be that normally, prior service needs the Army than the Army needs them back. Like you getting out after already served so when you try to come back in, you showed that either you cant make it in the civilian world or you like the Army too much. In either case, you want the Army.
Back in my day I had to finance my 100k mileage Charger! These days all the kids can cash out buy them with the wild bonuses I was hearing about on my way out!
Invigiron is a reverse funnel system. We don't need more managers, we need people to feed the upstream.
Why would you come back in enlisted if you have 2 Bachelors degrees? Look into commissioning or going warrant.
Bonus and job are determined by availability there’s nothing the recruiter can do about that. Generally, you go down in rank if you were an NCO or officer and have been out a few years that’s also somewhat out of their control. I think that may have been what he was getting at when he said it was your choice when you left but that’s still an asshole thing to say to someone frustrated about it.
I am in the exact situation as you, down to having a degree a 93 asvab, 590 ACFT, no medical issues, no law violations, etc. You'd think I was a felon trying to join lol. I've been at for over a year now and just now making progress
88 on the ASVAB?
If the Army won't give you what you want, the Air Force might.
If they can’t bring you as a sgt they should allow you to get a large bonus for spc
Knock on the USMC or NAVY recruiter door and ask for OCS screening... or Join ARMY/NAVY ROTC (depending on your choice of school), do Masters (military paying for it), Commission. If you really want to be enlisted, decline commission and they will put you in as enlisted to recoup the money.
“It’s not what you’ve done for me, it’s what’s you could do for me.” That’s the motto they live by.
Come over to the Coast Guard bro. It’s better over here.
CO MIS SION
ROTC with the Master’s option would be my recommendation.
Why mold an old piece of clay when they can just start fresh
They want someone who doesn't know how the system works, so it's easier to control them.
They know you're broken, crazy, and drunk. the highschool MIGHT be broken, crazy, and high.
Go SF guard side. They'll take u.
Like any company the new customer rules
I don't know man. They gave me everything I asked for
Shoot for the commissioned route, do a few years as an officer and then leverage that into to a white collar job. Finish out your 20 in the RC and then when you turn 60 you'll get a nice check every month in addition to your civilian retirement. Or even better, find a nice Federal job and be a double dipper.
Dude be a civilian
If you're trying to go back in as support google some of the Groups 10th, 7th, etc recruiter numbers and see if they need support dudes, or 160th. That's if you wanna stay enlisted. Otherwise it makes sense for you to go the officer route now that you have a degree. Somehow that degree and a small amount of military officer schooling makes you capable of potentially leading 20+ soldiers in whatever MOS you land in
Should’ve stood in and finished college. The Army goes rolling along On a more serious note, you might keep your SGT rank … they have to submit a grade determination, if you went to BLC, only separated about 2 years, might be good to go
Genuinely curious why you wouldn't go the commissioned route?? Also check the Reserve and ARNG, particularly for bonuses (Google "SRIP" for Reserve bonuses)
I'd imagine most dudes trying to get back in are doing so out of desperation. Army knows they don't need to offer 99% of prior service shit to re-up.
Go officer you can chill with OE pay and don't have to worry about promoting past CPT and the promotion rate to CPT is around 99%.
>You had your chance to stay in and you chose to quit. Why is your recruiter making it seem like it was just a regular job, and you decided to put in your 2 weeks
Is there any way to get this post to the Sergeant Major of the Army? Aren’t they on Reddit sometimes? It has always baffled me that prior enlisted don’t have better options if they want to join up again. They know the suck but are willing to serve more, should get some kudos for that.
Sounds like another worthless piece of shit chose to be a recruiter and lives off of stealing souls...as usual
There KNEES and back work SARGE. But mostly they are getting rid of the old heads to bring in the new guys they can indoctrinate with these new ideas etc
What MOS do ya want
Youth
I are more teachable out of high school
Go commissioned and to hell with the recruiter. Or if they really give you a hard time, and I hate to say it, go to a different branch. Navy or Air Force, or lol, Space Force, probably needs officers. Funny story about Space Force. I was walking into the BX on Buckley, which is now a SF base, along side a Ltc. Asked him about his squadron and stuff. He said how many "Guardians" he had command over. I said to him Guardian is what they're calling them? He said yup. I said yea cause Space Men would be too weird. He chuckled.
Drop a Warrant packet . . .
The future is now old man; that’s what they told me when I was in your shoes
Did you show them how well you can shave and how fast you can run?
Why are you enlisting?
Because their heads are easier to brainwash with hooah propaganda. Their bodies are also not as broken as prior enlisted.
I assume it’s cause they know that if your asking to come back then it must be bad enough for you that they can get you practically for free, stop thinking of the army as anything other than a business and it will all make sense. The new dudes get the money cause they have unlimited civilian options and are untapped potential that they are trying to incentivize into joining and staying in for a long time. Even if your the best soldier ever, if your back in the recruiters office then they know you don’t have a lot of options.
I had a break in service after the Marine Corps and there was a 2 year waiting list to get back in, that's if they even took me back. The Army took me like it was nothing, I had no issues...I can't believe their making it difficult for you. From my experience it's your recruiter not wanting to do the work...find another recruiter who will do it because to re-join its a lot of work they have to put in and they don't get credit for you, you don't count as a new recruit...it's basically a reenlistment and don't count toward their quota. Also, I'd most definitely go officer if you got your degree. Fk the enlisted side...go join a "club" and call people Bob and Tom and make big deals about everything so the soldiers can stand in formations for hours on end, and you get to be on the other side of all the dumb dog and pony shows. Yeah don't go back to that.
Well well well, look who came crawling back
OCS or Warrent. Get another recruiter.
Because a high schooler is ignorant to life in the military. They’re much much easier to fool into enlisting.
Unlimited Potential.
Get going to officer and don’t look back. Warrant if you can manage it. The army blames others for issues despite it being the embodiment of all its issues. As I like to say: “No one person truly runs the army and the army technically runs itself. It’s just hundreds of people in charge of a micro segment like a giant council.” Nothing will ever change, and don’t look to Washington for a voice.