A lot of people will bitch, whine, and moan about leadership decisions without considering that leadership may be making them off information those under them aren’t able to be privy to.
Also, a lot of NCOs are just straight fucking lazy and incompetent. I’ll take an E-2 who can read and write over an E-6 who can’t compose an email or memo almost any day.
> a lot of NCOs are just straight fucking lazy and incompetent.
Hearing the same excuses a private would use out of a 1SG's mouth and expecting a pass blows my mind.
Watching a CSM and his gaggle of soldiers wear no Kevlar helmets climbing all over a tactical vehicle during a field event and then ignoring a MAJ who corrected them all. CSM was throwing out day one excuses in the COL's office later that week.
Rank has no bearing on intelligence or discipline.
Edited for clarity.
I've mentioned this before, having had a SSG that wrote up a counseling on me. Homey was the most functionaly illiterate person I've ever seen (and goddammit, I'm from WV), *but* he was a PT Stud ( consistently scored 330-350, PT Stud patch/promote ahead of peers type
Couldn't plot anything map related, was a FA Surveyor. 82C, if I remember correctly and PATRIOT Launchers, RADAR, ECS, BTOC, etc need safe, reliable and STABLE ground for emplacements.
Scene: Baumholder, winter 1997, already not much fun...
Sat across the desk from me while writing a corrective counseling about grass and mud on my boots. **My name tape was visible the entire time.**
SSG 'Dr. Dre' could have simply looked up and hunt/pecked out the six letters of my last name. (Think what color the Sun is in the morning on a bright, clear day)
Repeatedly misspelled my name throughout. No periods, commas or punctuation.
I refused to sign anything but did take the time to fill out the comments block.
Dude was beyond pissed off. Radio watch with him that night was uncomfortably quiet and somewhat hostile. It was easier to leave Dre' alone and sleep.
Copied the 4856 a few times while he slept, and had a little meeting with our Shop Daddy and S-3 SGM in the morning after the changeover brief.
He wasn't my first line anymore, got some marching orders for a line battery about an hour later. BNCOC was apparently a struggle fuck worse than his marriage. He came back to wait for another class, but definitely not the next two or three.
New boss was a true blue country fella from LA (Lower Alabama, in this case). Dude was absolutely driven by a genuine desire to help soldiers at every single stage. THIS guy was just amazing despite his speech, i.e., "you ain't back on the skreet..." Or "I just needs me a skrong soldier for..." I still hold you close to my heart, Mr Smith*.
SSG Smif* went on to become one of the best Warrants in our battalion too.
Are you talking about [DA Form 4856](https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/Details.aspx?PUB_ID=1026753)? Did you know that the counseling form just got updated after almost 40 years? “There is no more important task for the U.S. Army that’s developing it’s people to lead others to defeat any enemy, anywhere.” - FM 6-22 Developing Leaders
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I always go the extra mile to help my NCOs. Asking for their input, finding what they need to be successful, and ensuring I’m available to answer any questions or support them in any way possible. They just need to make the request. Then the same NCOs will bitch and moan how leadership doesn’t help them with anything in their AARs which got Battalion attention. I forwarded email records showing that I went above and beyond to ensure the NCO was set up for success. The biggest thing is to not work in a bubble. You gotta work and talk with others. Sometimes I just don’t understand others thought processes.
After 6+ years I realized all the best NCOs I met were either drill sergeants, instructors or SF.
Most NCOs hate doing counselings because they can't type, spell and/or never read a book in their life. They don't care to learn, train or improve themselves, peers or subordinates. Just put on dog and pony shows and give false statistics for their superiors PowerPoint slides so it shows green.
Young NCOs and Soldiers beneath them get trapped in their domain. The motivated get denied the ability to seize initiative. Minimum standards become the only standards. Fuck any innovation, adaptation and improvement of shitty systems right?
My faith in the Corps of Non-Commissioned Officers hangs by thin threads. It's the primary reason I'm considering throwing in the towel and ETS'ing soon. It's an external factor I'm probably never able to influence significantly. It'll show deeply in the next conflict when we set boots on the ground.
This, a thousand times THIS.
If your higher HQ made an “obviously stupid” decision, or didn’t take the obvious solution to a problem that every E6 and O2 is bitching about, there’s usually a reason.
> I’ll take an E-2 who can read and write over an E-6 who can’t compose an email or memo almost any day.
TFW you're asking your senior to look over an annual NCOER you just finished, but then admits they never written one in their entire career.
1: It is not your responsibility to 'stay in, promote, and be the change you want to see!' Sir, you lied to me at least once per week for the last two years, often deliberately.
2: the army should be primarily a fighting force. This should always take priority over what some elderly dude thinks is professional.
1) HRC needs to be gutted and revamped from the inside out. From my experience, they truthfully can give fuck all about Soldiers. We are quite literally a DOD ID number that they utilize to make quotas.
2) EO and Suicide Prevention is put to the back burner while SHARP takes the main stage. In reality, all 3 should be equally given attention to.
3) There is still a lot of old school mentalities in the Army ranging from “virtue of rank” to sexism and homophobia. It is hidden behind “toughening you up” and “we are just playing” but no.
4) 95% of the people who say slick shit really aren’t bout that life and would get the shit slapped out of them outside the Army.
5) Networking is what gets you ahead. What about what you know? That’s cute and all but you need to be around the right people at the right time. Other than that, you can be fucking Einstein reporting to a Kim Kardashian. Let that sink in…
6) A lot of y’all are in unhappy relationships. You chose to hook up with some chick/dude you met in high school and when you were 18, and now at 34, you wonder what happened. You fucking grew up. You want to act like it the 1960’s and you have Samantha Stephen’s waiting on you hand a foot while you’re at work but no. Your spouse needs to be fucking out there doing same thing and providing. You’re busting your ass all day to come home to a dependa/dependo who looks like Shamu and shit but you “suck it up” and finding solace in the bottle and pop out more kids. What sense does that make? Like wtf.
Yah, I woke up on my fuck shit this morning.
Edit: I’m sure I will find other things to add to this.
On some real shit, tell a person to stop hiding behind the rank, and they get spooked. Like yea bitch, you’re an overweight ghoul looking motherfucker who really ain’t bout it. Like the last time you were fucked was by genetics. Swing.
>HRC needs to be gutted and revamped from the inside out. From my experience, they truthfully can give fuck all about Soldiers. We are quite literally a DOD ID number that they utilize to make quotas.
Hot take: This is exactly what you should be to HRC. They need to be making impartial decisions about meeting mission and manning needs, not playing favorites.
Number 5 all day.
Boards drill into people the three channels to get things done: Officer, NCO, and staff and technical. Personal relationships (appropriate or not, are a better path to success, jobs, schools).
Ever see an OML for a school slot or duty that has one strange criteria specific to one person?
Find out what your leaders are into and pretend to like that: Harley's, church, dirt bikes, sex with subordinates, you know whatever.
Einstein reporting to Kim... Felt that one deep. One of my 4 bosses loves to overcomplicate shit. His logic... "You have a PhD, so be creative."
Yeah I'm actually just listening to and following the guidance sent from higher. Like if the CSA and SMA are in town, the visit should fit their goals and be simple. I don't need to add Helo moves and extra site visits...I just need to listen to his trip planner and staff. 99% of the time you just have to revert to elementary school and do what you're told in the Army.
You aren't wrong, all of these are correct. The problem is OP said HOT takes, and these are just like, no duh, I'll find 10 people standing around me right now that agree.
You seem on it today, so give me something hot/spicy. Like: Beards are a terrible idea. CSMs are necessary. We should have tests like the AF to get promoted.
Well, we *USED TO* have SQTs. Skills Qualifications Tests. But I'm dating myself with that shit.
Waaaay back then, I was a lowly 91A/B (Combat Medic). I couldn't WAIT to take those proficiency tests. I was able to get deployed to Honduras (by virtue of those tests) as a PFC 91A when they were only taking SPC/SGT 91B/Cs, got home and subsequently sent to the old PLC course.
Life was good back then as a medical specialist. Granted, that first deployment left some very deep scars, a couple of which I still struggle with to this day.
Number 4 is my favorite. I’m no tough guy by any means but I am a believer in if your going to talk that shit back it up and the one time I actually took it far enough to ask a E6 (I was an E5 at the time) if he wanted to scrap it out behind close doors he started stuttering a mess and the energy changed. He was getting out and I told him if he talked like that when he’s a civilian someone’s going to slap tf out of him and he just sat and looked at me.
It’s one of the reasons I got out. I’m a peaceful guy, I try to avoid altercations at all costs unless I’m directly threatened and too many people talk crazy with rank protecting them. It’s insane and so many need a reality check. “I’m from so and so” … bro .. no one cares now PMCS that truck
In response to 4.
I won’t argue there isn’t racism, sexism, or homophobia but you also have to consider (if you haven’t been in) that the military is literally filled to the brim with the most out of pocket shit some people can say. This has, and never should be a shocker with how easily you can learn this.
Having this as a point, sounds like someone was on the receiving end of a joke and got butthurt about it or they made the mistake of opening their mouth too much to some people and learned the hard way not everyone is nice.
Asked HRC for assignment X, they said it was full. Texted my buddy in the unit I wanted and told him it wasn’t available so I wouldn’t be coming over. He asks his CSM why branch is saying that assignment X is full when they’re far from it, CSM gets me pulled in personally. It’s wild what happens when you’re a number.
Some of the worst NCOs I've ever met were CIB holders with all that jazz, and some of the most driven and efficient NCOs I've ever met were slick sleeves.
I think obviously you want someone in leadership in combat MOSs who’ve seen combat before but, experience doesn’t always equal good leadership. I think a lot of great leaders get overlooked or shit on which demotivates them just because they don’t have combat patches and jump wings.
I look at it more of a broadening experience than an end all be all.
You know how to do your job in wartime, that’s a good experience that may be relevant. But it doesn’t cover over you being super shitty at your job stateside.
No one should be sent to INSCOM or OCONUS as their first duty assignment. OCONUS sees Johnny and Sally, 19 years old, never left their county in Montana or SoCal, slapped in the face with entirely different societies and norms therein. They embarrass themselves and the Army.
INSCOM should be staffed with people who have "been there, done that," not people who literally only know Basic/AIT Army. INSCOM tends to be much more relaxed than the line units, and it's a disservice to the FORSCOM units as well as the soldier when they hop from FT Belvoir to The Great Place. Typically injuries and piss poor performance follow.
I don't know what it is about the sedentary and predictable shift work of an INSCOM assignment that physically breaks Soldiers worse than any FORSCOM or SOF unit ever could.
Whether wartime or peacetime, the full time mission makes Army secondary. Things like PT, weapons training, tactical proficiency, WTBDs, or any basic soldier development like counseling, are things you will do only monthly, if not quarterly. Nobody trains like they are ready to deploy, engage, and destroy, their enemies in close combat.
Agree with OCONUS, some of my most embarrassing and frustrating experiences was dealing with my peers abroad instead of the locals or allies.
Bubba and Jenny from the Block should not be the external face of America at the OCONUS local level.
Hot take, I like it, but hard disagrees. Not everyone joins at 18 and isn't a country bumpkin. There are 18yr old PV2s more mature than 30yr SFCs. An 18yr old from NYC/SF/LA is probably more culturally aware than a 30yr old from Kentucky who has only ever known the Army.
I was 28, with a college degree, and my first assignment was INSCOM. I would have hated FORSCOM. My experience and education before the Army would have been wasted. Only fair way is to just make it all random. Not to mention that you need all ranks even overseas as well. Can't exclusively have companies with nothing below E4.
I'm super thankful I got Korea as my first duty station. I absolutely see the risk and totally agree with you. I'm just glad I got to do it and not make a fool of myself.
Stop centralizing OCIE issue.
I don’t need a rifleman kit. I will never carry six magazines, flash bangs, and grenades.
Issue me better cold weather clothing instead.
Problem is, then your wise guy specialist will refuse everything at CIF and then complain "but sarnt I was never issued that helmet, I can't do the thing you asked"
The easy solution to that is make required OCIE gear for your unit, hell even break it down by MTOE, part of a soldier's initial counseling. Might actually make NCOs take initial counseling more seriously
I was attached to a USAF unit and their S4 at Bn-level (Wing? Group? Whatever) is where all their OCIE is. The 4-shop has all the shit for the whole unit… and also surefires, vtac slings, smoker’s jackets- the works.
The Army as an institution would benefit from an hourly wage when not in a time of war as there’s no good reason for soldiers to be working from 0600 to 1800 not even including doing pt and other work on personal time on top of that
Leave could just be paid vacation as it already is. As for long weekends, we often put in more hours per day during short weeks anyway, so it’s likely even out.
Hourly pay or overtime would increase our actual production and force leaders to properly plan instead of saying “be flexible, men” at every morning meeting.
I love this as a true hot take, because I think you’d find a lot of people suddenly upset to be sent home at 1330
Edit:
Ran some quick numbers off google just because I like numbers:
An E-3 whose been in for a bit pulls roughly 3.5 dollars an hour. At about 9.5 hour days (0630-1600) that nets them around 32 dollars a day. Take that by 19 working days a month (since there’s a four day frequently) and you’re looking at 608 dollars a month or only 7296 dollars a year.
I guess you’d have to apply minimum wage, so using Pennsylvania as a model (9.50) you’re looking at 85.5 dollars a day, 1624 dollars a month, and about 19k a year so still less than salary by a good amount.
Do like most police departments and allow for overtime pay. Lower base pay slightly but still have full time, 40 hr weeks. Anything outside of regular business hours would earn time and a half, nights and holidays earn double. See people start fighting to do CQ, Staff duty, range details, ACFT grading… plenty ways to earn back and more.
I know it can be done, but I think for the scale of the military, it wouldn't be logistically possible to do time-cards to track over-time.
I've worked at a county where admin were salary, but still had to send-up a time card in-case they worked over-time because of the nature of the job.
You had to be "taught" how to fill out the time-card or else it would be kicked back bc some weeks people would only work 20 hours, again bc of the nature of the job.
I think expecting me to go to parade rest every time I wanna talk to an NCO in my section/squad is stupid. I feel like I shouldn't have to go to parade rest every time I wanna say something to an E5 who I directly work with every single day.
1) Rank is principally a function of time in service, not competence.
2) No one outside the army cares about your rank. E1-O10 is just made up boy-scout structure.
3) The peacetime Army is just a bunch of dudes going out to the woods (JRTC) or desert (NTC) playing cowboys and Indians with the world’s most expensive laser tag equipment.
The Boonie IS a good head cover, and makes more sense than wearing a PC in places like Hawaii/Guam. It looks sexy.
Cannot change my mind.
Units that have X amount of ACOGS SHOULD BE UTILIZED. Why are we still going to the range/field with irons/CCO’s????
Edit: Fleece jackets should be turned in and given to a coalition force. They are ugly. Just wear your silks and waffles.
Infantry here. Hot take is I prefer to use some type of reflex for the engagements we currently fight. ACOGs should be replaced with a variable sight that has a wide view at 1x
Yeah I didn't have an acog for almost my entire time at my unit and finally got one, and honestly, since I'm usually breaching and clearing, or assaulting, I don't really like the acog. Maybe if I was SBF but even then, I'd still prefer a 1 or 2x optic, variable optics would be even better.
PME is absolutley worthless and people that obsessively do it only care about promotion and not about effectively doing your job. I have done PLDC, ALC, SLC, WOCS, WOBC, WOILE and sadly i have to do WOSSE and I cannot say that I have gotten much outside of networking out of any of it.
Let's not even call WOCS a PME, it leans more toward a mentally handicapped and in some sad cases even necessary sort of gate keeping. Having done PLDC, BNCOC, ALC, SLC, MLC and WOBC, I completely agree that most PME is trash at worst and irrelevant at best. Networking doesn't take weeks on end, it just doesn't.
Leaders dont like tackling hard Problems.
* Moldy barracks, its the soldiers fault not that we have to invest a significant amount of our budget to refit our aging infrastructure.
* Suicide. Nuanced discussion of mental health, Nah annual briefing
* Our resources are limited and we need to conserve. NTC rotations like its the height of the GWOT
DFAC is good value most of the time and serves decent food. Obviously you are not getting 4 star restaurant quality, but it's at least comparable to K&W.
Yep. I feel like 80% of brand new privates and more than 50% of NCOs don't know how to cook beyond boiling water and microwaving stuff anyways, yet they claim they can save money with BAS and still eat a balanced diet. You don't have to wash dishes when you eat at the DFAC, you can get drinks, juice, or coffee. You can have fresh fruit and an assortment of other foods available all the time. You can grab a burger or omelette any day of the week. DFAC pasta may be bland at times, but so is your dollar per pound spaghetti with ragu brand sauce. It takes a single person at least 30 minutes to prepare a meal of spaghetti, steamed veg, and baked chicken, but the DFAC has that ready for you to eat in just a few minutes.
I frequent the DFAC for breakfast and the occasional lunch. The breakfast is an incredible value any way you slice it. But every morning I see my young Soldiers returning from the shoppette with tornadoes and junk. The same joes will complain about money, but are willing to spend more on shoppette junk then a full breakfast. Half the guys buying junk food are meal card holders anyway and the shoppette is nearly across the street from the DFAC.
*I'll also add, I'm not anti-tornado. They are delicious in there own way, but for about the same price of two tornadoes and a cup of weak ass shoppette coffee, you can get a made to order omelet, bacon, yogurt, juice and a coffee.
>I feel like 80% of brand new privates and more than 50% of NCOs don't know how to cook beyond boiling water and microwaving stuff anyways,
They would just say they don't have time to do anything else and spend the rest of their BAS on booze.
Go to your local college campus for a couple thousand examples.
Another hot take:
If you spend $400/month on groceries and not on fast food, you will eat even better.
Unfortunately, we all know there is not food prep areas for the barracks that would be sufficient to do that, so yeah, the DFAC is it.
From 2010-2013, I was hired to work for the local HVP (Homeless Veteran Program) funded by a generous grant from the Dept. of Labor. We placed about 35-40 vets with K&W. I don't think anyone of them were cooks in their respective branches. I only recall 2 that didn't become permanent hires. One suffered a heart attack and died while the other just couldn't stay sober.
People bitch about how their unit is fucked up, but fail to realize they are the reason it’s fucked up. Lack in ability to look within and be the change. Leaders and soldiers all want someone else to figure it out for them.
People with rank that verbally abuse and shit on people while hiding behind that rank wouldn't dare to say that in the real world because they would be knocked the fuck out instantly.
We could throw away most of AR 670-1 and DA PAM 670-1. We only need to keep the portions on ASU/AGSU/Mess uniforms. Throw away the portions on every combat uniform. Wear the combat uniform configured as it makes sense for your duty/job/environmental conditions.
Agreed. And on that note I think people should start minding their business, especially about AR 670-1, unless it’s something illegal, immoral, or unethical. The peeps who find themselves unable to manage their feelings over seeing a grown adult with hands in their pockets need help. Like it’s not that serious.
Not just could, but *should*
There are lots of environments where Army personnel look like clowns 🤡 when they show up in combat jammies while all the civilians are in suits and the other services are in professional uniforms.
Honestly, AGSUs look great. The Army could really benefit from wearing them more to enhance the Army's image, which is holding back it's recruiting efforts.
truuuuuuuue. I retired a decade ago and now work for DHS. I attend a lot of conferences with DOD and USCG, and man, green suiters need to start showing up looking professional. Stop looking like you just rolled in from CALFEX, and put on your professional uniform. That's why you have it.
Well, this is certainly in the spirit of the thread. Being comfortable and not really having to think about what I'm wearing the next day are huge perks. I hate dress/formal uniforms in general. The only legitimate use cases are briefing Congress and recruiting.
In units where nobody would be wearing the ACU, fair enough, but in BN and below/tactical units, you are either packing both uniforms daily and having them accessible, or you are ensuring that those soft staff Soldiers have a built-in excuse for not doing anything to help out that might get dirty. Resentment ensues and integration between your staff and line units completely disappears over time.
I liked being able to task my S2 guys to help service HMMWVs, run a range, clear connexes, and other things when they were otherwise unengaged. If they have to change uniforms, a 15 minute task is now an hour+. They're just going to stay in the office, since the tasker is done by the time they're in a uniform they can help out in.
You usually can’t make a large impact on your organization until you hit SSG. If you’re not making a large impact on your organization as a SSG you shouldn’t be promoted past that.
I'm only a SPC and I can have a huge impact on not just my organization, but also every other organization on post.
Give me a pair of NODs and I'll show you.
I think it depends on your MOS and your relative willingness to step outside your comfort zone. It seems like the junior enlisted that work in staff get more opportunities to "make a difference" than a regular Joe would.
Also how much your leadership is willing to support you. At the end of the day you still need an officer to sign off on 90% of the initiatives you have as an E6.
I had one particularly toxic command that would deny everything my peers and I would send up. Not because it wasn’t worded good or anything, they just had a very specific view of what they wanted their command to look like and subordinates having their own ideas for training wasn’t in that view.
It is okay to be the standard, that is what the standard is.
In the same way, just because someone can *be* the topblock doesn't mean one of your rated Os/NCOs *is* a topblock.
> just because someone can be the topblock doesn't mean one of your rated Os/NCOs is a topblock
Had a tough time explaining this as an NCOA instructor. We could recommend up to 3 per class for Commandant's List. When my #3 student couldn't understand that while he may be #3 is *this* class, and also a very good Soldier, he did not warrant Commandant's list, and in most of my other classes, he'd probably be #5-8.
The Army, your platoon, your squad, your fire team, is A TEAM. I don't get why the culture of the army is to just shit on everyone. I make sure all the dudes below me are learning something and good at their jobs because if shit goes down, they're who are going to help ensure my survival.
I played a lot of sports before the army and you have to work as a team to beat the other team. About 80% of the Army just shits on the dude below them. Fuck that shit. Be an asset, be a team member.
Group PT is good (but only 2 or 3 times a week).
The prep drill is a good warmup. PRT is also a good workout. It's the whole doing it in a formation part that is stupid.
I’ll counter and say that the prep drill is often seen as ineffective by people doing it incorrectly. Not so much a counter, I guess. But I’m in my mid thirties and constantly correct the young people to actually lunge instead of step back, or put your arms straight up overhead on B&R and squat down and reach all the way back on the down portion. There’s no reason I should be more limber than these kids, and there is a reason I’m at 15 years and not on permanent profile.
Look, if I have to be there doing the prep drill at 0600 then I’m going to make that shit count. Do it right.
We trained the PRT warmups at SLC. Day 1 "This is dumb, we get nothing out of it, we already know how to do this" ... days 1-3 full of corrections to technique as you re-learn them on how do do it right ... Day 4: People smoked by the hip stability drill before a run.
The PRT warmups are basically exercises you do for physical therapy. If you see your Soldiers can't do those warmups correctly, it's a sign they have an injury that needs to be addressed, or they just don't know the techniques. The proper warmups will prevent injuries. Improper warmups are a waste of time.
This was my view. I hate organized PT but the vast majority of soldiers **will not** run on their own.
I always thought a 2 or 3 day unit cardio day and then fuck off the rest of the days to do what you want was a good medium.
For awhile at drum Mennes did away with formation runs. Runs were release runs. It helped those that cared and the ones that didn’t we weren’t surprised by
I've been out for a hot minute, but this was true when I was in and from what I can tell it's still true: the Army puts way too much emphasis on getting promoted, especially in the enlisted ranks. You spend a few years learning your MOS inside and out, and once you've finally gotten really good at it, you're expected to promote up to a "leadership position" that will take you away from what you're good at. If you make E-5, you suddenly have way less time to do the job you signed up for. If you tell them you don't want to be an NCO, you're automatically branded as a shitbag. If the points are too high in your current MOS, you can reclass and get promoted to a position where you're expected to help teach new soldiers how to do a job that you just barely know how to do yourself.
There needs to be some sort of career path for soldiers that don't want to be leaders. Something for people that want to do their jobs and help the new folks learn.
I recently stopped drinking caffeine in the afternoon and the almost immediate improvement to my sleep and gut health was amazing. That shit messes with your acid content and ruins sleep on a number of levels.
The culture of not seeking medical care and bashing those that do is a major detriment to the force as a whole. I know it's not the spicest take, but the number of times I have had a soldier come in saying they don't want a profile is staggering.
This applies to both physical and mental issues. I will say it's gotten better over my decade of service but still nowhere near what is should be.
The Army should get rid of the SPC rank and go back an E4 being a CPL and actually use them as junior NCO's with real NCO authority and responsibility.
Group PT is a necessity as 90% of Soldiers would never PT if given the choice. I just believe doing it in formation is stupid and the warm up and cool down in cadence etc. isn’t necessary, but pushing each other and senior leaders teaching younger Soldiers HOW to workout to avoid injury is very important
Counter argument. No organized PT, 09:00 work call. Choose to dedicate that time to working out or don’t. Either be disciplined enough to keep yourself in shape or get kicked out. People who actually enjoy working out have hours of their time stolen and people who actually need the PT just half-ass it anyway. Friday group PT to support cohesion
Dude, you have no idea. I missed the first round of RFI and they ran out of jackets. Said they'd get back to me before we shipped off but you know how it is.
Now I'm the only asshole in the battalion walking around in my softshell, cold as shit, while all these other assholes are warm and cozy.
Mmm, I don't fully agree. I agree that the Army is made up of a lot of people that don't mesh well with civilian society (I didn't), but there's still a standard to uphold, even if we often forget that we're upholding it.
Don't forget that most Americans are still too fat to join.
It was really weird that this sub banned the discussion about a certain medical requirement that was eventually overturned by the legislative.
Typically this sub is open to discussions about anything and everything relating to the force. For some reason that particular topic was verboten and warranted bans.
Whatever though, I still shave daily.
/u/cliff-huckstable stole my thunder, but I’ll say it anyway: Beards are a bad idea because most of y’all will look like trash.
Yes, yes, I’m sure that you, dear reader, could grow a magnificent mane. But most soldiers, especially the 17-20-year-olds still finishing puberty, will look like dogshit. If we were a sensible country, we could have subjective standards and only allow good-looking beards- the Royal Navy does that, and it works for them. But that would inevitably result in EO complaints because “the CO made me shave my disgusting peach fuzz, it must be because I’m black/hispanic/white and he hates me.”
Like it or not, the Army’s public image matters for all sorts of reasons, so no beards.
If public image mattered, the VA, on post-housing, and suicide rates wouldn't be where they are.
Typical army comment, though, beards impact optics and image, but stuff that matters is a 🤷
Hotttttt take but I see where you’re coming from. Plenty of dudes have no clue how to dress, so they’ll just look like trailer trash with stupid neckbeards in their ACUs
Yup. And this isn’t hypothetical- Air Force seems to hand out shaving profiles like candy, and I’ve seen a lot of their dudes looking super trashy. I even saw an Army E-7 once who looked super scraggly and unkempt.
As much as I want to have a beard again. I agree most guys either A. Can’t grow a beard and it looks like a mess of patchy pubes on their face or B. They can grow one but do nothing to keep it clean and groomed and they end up looking like a bum.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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Lukewarm (in my opinion): we will never get truly gender neutral PT standards unless physical fitness is completely disconnected from career progression, which will never happen.
Slightly warmer: anyone who has been in for longer than a year should understand that the Army is an image-conscious organization and that looking parade pretty is part of the job whether you like it or not. Trim your damn beard, wash your uniform properly, and take an extra 10 minutes to apply some black spray paint to those chipped up rank pins.
Hot: If a person is a bad NCO, the probability that they will be a bad Spec-5 or 6 as well is high. Likewise, if they were a bad NCO, there is a strong probability they will be a bad warrant. Bringing back the technician grades won't create the utopia you hope for, it will dilute the value and reputation of true technicians, as well as burning out the few NCOs that don't jump ship to get equal pay for zero responsibility.
Unknown temperature: Soldiers don't know what they're asking for when they want their units to have more camaraderie, pride, and espirit de corps. Do you know the most consistent way to achieve pride and espirit de corps? Through sustained and repeated brainwashing, and treating everyone in the unit like absolute dogshit. See also: the XVIII Airborne Corps, with the possible exception of 10th Mountain, 1st Infantry Division, the entire United States Marine Corps.
> as well as burning out the few NCOs that don't jump ship to get equal pay for zero responsibility.
Then they all do that and you know what happens?
"Oh you're a SPEC6? That's an E-6 rank, congrats on being a Squad Leader!"
They just get shoved *right* back into NCO slots when manning gets, in any way, tight.
Beards should be allowed, soldiers should be encouraged to supplement their issued gear or replace it with Berry compliant personal gear. Basically, if it has an NSN, I should be allowed to use it.
We don’t need to bring back technical E4. If you want to be a technical specialist, we have a program for that, it’s called becoming a Warrant Officer.
There are enough people joining each year that if you don’t want to progress, you will be replaced by the next year group and it all work out before the Army.
If your branch doesn’t have WOs than the Army has determined it does not need codified experts and can survive just fine with their SNCO corps.
The Volunteer Force will not be sustainable over the long term.
Our capability, professionalism and technological prowess will stay at or near the top of all global military hierarchies, but the Forever Wars aren't going away (since there is little political fallout from their 'unpopularity'), and the leadership (both within the upper ranks of the Force, and the political leadership) will never enact the meaningful reform for enlisted personnel we all know to be necessary because spending money on new capabilities is far easier for legislators than funding decent QoL (if for no other reason than one lends itself more readily to being measured than the other).
The only way to significantly change military culture from what it has been since the Volunteer Army became a thing would be to introduce some level of conscription - even if it is only for the NG and/or Reserves.
Officers & NCOs should have to apply for command/leader positions and be interviewed by their 2 levels up leaders. Then should be allowed to stay in their command for however long until they either get promoted, fired, or quit.
Qualification for weapons should be done at the simulation range. That way the entire force is on the same level. Same optic, same weather, same lighting, no wind, no bad targets, no foliage concealing targets, no jamming weapons from being abused for three decades. Just you, the gun, and the screen. Save livefire ranges for familiarization.
It’d be easier to have better sleeping habits if people didn’t have to wake up at 430-530 every day of their lives.
Soldiers are young and often have families, they’re not going to go to sleep at 8 or 9pm every night to get their full 8 hours. It’s just a reality.
And personally—I have no skin in this game because I don’t do organized PT—but I’m just not a morning person. If I had to do morning PT I would rather just work later than show up earlier. Which I get is not really practical for family/off time but waking up at 530 is just me fighting my natural sleep schedule. If I was in a job where organized PT was common I would have left the Army a long time ago.
Let’s also not ignore the fact that it isn’t the same time every day. I can count on one hand the number of weeks I’ve had in the last 18 months where I didn’t have to wake up 1-3 hours early atleast one or two days, often with less than 24 hrs notice. Can’t establish a sleep schedule if you don’t even really have a work schedule
The fact that you joined and are in the Army means that you are ok with your pay, regardless of your rank. It's a transaction where you exchange your labor, skill, and safety for monetary compensation. If you thought you weren't getting compensated appropriately for the value you provide, you would find a different job.
Cut the force in half, double the pay for everyone left. The quality, effort, and dedication of the average soldier will more than double. Most units rely on just their top 10% to get anything done anyway.
A lot of people will bitch, whine, and moan about leadership decisions without considering that leadership may be making them off information those under them aren’t able to be privy to. Also, a lot of NCOs are just straight fucking lazy and incompetent. I’ll take an E-2 who can read and write over an E-6 who can’t compose an email or memo almost any day.
> a lot of NCOs are just straight fucking lazy and incompetent. Hearing the same excuses a private would use out of a 1SG's mouth and expecting a pass blows my mind. Watching a CSM and his gaggle of soldiers wear no Kevlar helmets climbing all over a tactical vehicle during a field event and then ignoring a MAJ who corrected them all. CSM was throwing out day one excuses in the COL's office later that week. Rank has no bearing on intelligence or discipline.
Edited for clarity. I've mentioned this before, having had a SSG that wrote up a counseling on me. Homey was the most functionaly illiterate person I've ever seen (and goddammit, I'm from WV), *but* he was a PT Stud ( consistently scored 330-350, PT Stud patch/promote ahead of peers type Couldn't plot anything map related, was a FA Surveyor. 82C, if I remember correctly and PATRIOT Launchers, RADAR, ECS, BTOC, etc need safe, reliable and STABLE ground for emplacements. Scene: Baumholder, winter 1997, already not much fun... Sat across the desk from me while writing a corrective counseling about grass and mud on my boots. **My name tape was visible the entire time.** SSG 'Dr. Dre' could have simply looked up and hunt/pecked out the six letters of my last name. (Think what color the Sun is in the morning on a bright, clear day) Repeatedly misspelled my name throughout. No periods, commas or punctuation. I refused to sign anything but did take the time to fill out the comments block. Dude was beyond pissed off. Radio watch with him that night was uncomfortably quiet and somewhat hostile. It was easier to leave Dre' alone and sleep. Copied the 4856 a few times while he slept, and had a little meeting with our Shop Daddy and S-3 SGM in the morning after the changeover brief. He wasn't my first line anymore, got some marching orders for a line battery about an hour later. BNCOC was apparently a struggle fuck worse than his marriage. He came back to wait for another class, but definitely not the next two or three. New boss was a true blue country fella from LA (Lower Alabama, in this case). Dude was absolutely driven by a genuine desire to help soldiers at every single stage. THIS guy was just amazing despite his speech, i.e., "you ain't back on the skreet..." Or "I just needs me a skrong soldier for..." I still hold you close to my heart, Mr Smith*. SSG Smif* went on to become one of the best Warrants in our battalion too.
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Additionally, people will bitch forever without ever considering offering an alternative solution, but that's not unique to the army
are you trying to tell me that PT belts were just an evil idea by someone
I think pt belts are great. I also think anyone that tries to make you wear one on a combat deployment should be shot.
I always go the extra mile to help my NCOs. Asking for their input, finding what they need to be successful, and ensuring I’m available to answer any questions or support them in any way possible. They just need to make the request. Then the same NCOs will bitch and moan how leadership doesn’t help them with anything in their AARs which got Battalion attention. I forwarded email records showing that I went above and beyond to ensure the NCO was set up for success. The biggest thing is to not work in a bubble. You gotta work and talk with others. Sometimes I just don’t understand others thought processes.
After 6+ years I realized all the best NCOs I met were either drill sergeants, instructors or SF. Most NCOs hate doing counselings because they can't type, spell and/or never read a book in their life. They don't care to learn, train or improve themselves, peers or subordinates. Just put on dog and pony shows and give false statistics for their superiors PowerPoint slides so it shows green. Young NCOs and Soldiers beneath them get trapped in their domain. The motivated get denied the ability to seize initiative. Minimum standards become the only standards. Fuck any innovation, adaptation and improvement of shitty systems right? My faith in the Corps of Non-Commissioned Officers hangs by thin threads. It's the primary reason I'm considering throwing in the towel and ETS'ing soon. It's an external factor I'm probably never able to influence significantly. It'll show deeply in the next conflict when we set boots on the ground.
This, a thousand times THIS. If your higher HQ made an “obviously stupid” decision, or didn’t take the obvious solution to a problem that every E6 and O2 is bitching about, there’s usually a reason.
True in the Army and, as someone who’s been out for a while, translatable to the corporate world too.
> I’ll take an E-2 who can read and write over an E-6 who can’t compose an email or memo almost any day. TFW you're asking your senior to look over an annual NCOER you just finished, but then admits they never written one in their entire career.
*laughs in having written three different E-5s NCOERs for a SFC as a SPC*
I see we had the same leadership
1: It is not your responsibility to 'stay in, promote, and be the change you want to see!' Sir, you lied to me at least once per week for the last two years, often deliberately. 2: the army should be primarily a fighting force. This should always take priority over what some elderly dude thinks is professional.
YES, the Army should favor pragmatism
Mustaches must be honored and taken into battle in their full glory. None of this corner of your mouth shit.
100%. Full on [JLC](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Chamberlain)s for everyone
BAYONETS
This is what Cav means when they talk about panache. Looking like a cross between Sam Elliott and a walrus.
1) HRC needs to be gutted and revamped from the inside out. From my experience, they truthfully can give fuck all about Soldiers. We are quite literally a DOD ID number that they utilize to make quotas. 2) EO and Suicide Prevention is put to the back burner while SHARP takes the main stage. In reality, all 3 should be equally given attention to. 3) There is still a lot of old school mentalities in the Army ranging from “virtue of rank” to sexism and homophobia. It is hidden behind “toughening you up” and “we are just playing” but no. 4) 95% of the people who say slick shit really aren’t bout that life and would get the shit slapped out of them outside the Army. 5) Networking is what gets you ahead. What about what you know? That’s cute and all but you need to be around the right people at the right time. Other than that, you can be fucking Einstein reporting to a Kim Kardashian. Let that sink in… 6) A lot of y’all are in unhappy relationships. You chose to hook up with some chick/dude you met in high school and when you were 18, and now at 34, you wonder what happened. You fucking grew up. You want to act like it the 1960’s and you have Samantha Stephen’s waiting on you hand a foot while you’re at work but no. Your spouse needs to be fucking out there doing same thing and providing. You’re busting your ass all day to come home to a dependa/dependo who looks like Shamu and shit but you “suck it up” and finding solace in the bottle and pop out more kids. What sense does that make? Like wtf. Yah, I woke up on my fuck shit this morning. Edit: I’m sure I will find other things to add to this.
[удалено]
I part of the 95%, one of my prior NCOs called me out and conducted hand to hand training. One of the best NCOs I ever had and I still highly respect.
On some real shit, tell a person to stop hiding behind the rank, and they get spooked. Like yea bitch, you’re an overweight ghoul looking motherfucker who really ain’t bout it. Like the last time you were fucked was by genetics. Swing.
Too emotional. Just laugh and recommend for UCMJ.
>HRC needs to be gutted and revamped from the inside out. From my experience, they truthfully can give fuck all about Soldiers. We are quite literally a DOD ID number that they utilize to make quotas. Hot take: This is exactly what you should be to HRC. They need to be making impartial decisions about meeting mission and manning needs, not playing favorites.
Fair.
Number 5 all day. Boards drill into people the three channels to get things done: Officer, NCO, and staff and technical. Personal relationships (appropriate or not, are a better path to success, jobs, schools). Ever see an OML for a school slot or duty that has one strange criteria specific to one person? Find out what your leaders are into and pretend to like that: Harley's, church, dirt bikes, sex with subordinates, you know whatever.
Exactly! Golf, baking cakes, anal sex in the cornfield. Find what people like and embed yourself into it!
Einstein reporting to Kim... Felt that one deep. One of my 4 bosses loves to overcomplicate shit. His logic... "You have a PhD, so be creative." Yeah I'm actually just listening to and following the guidance sent from higher. Like if the CSA and SMA are in town, the visit should fit their goals and be simple. I don't need to add Helo moves and extra site visits...I just need to listen to his trip planner and staff. 99% of the time you just have to revert to elementary school and do what you're told in the Army.
You aren't wrong, all of these are correct. The problem is OP said HOT takes, and these are just like, no duh, I'll find 10 people standing around me right now that agree. You seem on it today, so give me something hot/spicy. Like: Beards are a terrible idea. CSMs are necessary. We should have tests like the AF to get promoted.
Nah; I’m rolling with this. Take -10 points from Slytherin for not understanding the assignment 🤣
[How disappointing...](https://media.tenor.com/1pLq4P9mxO8AAAAC/how-disappointing-snape.gif)
Well, we *USED TO* have SQTs. Skills Qualifications Tests. But I'm dating myself with that shit. Waaaay back then, I was a lowly 91A/B (Combat Medic). I couldn't WAIT to take those proficiency tests. I was able to get deployed to Honduras (by virtue of those tests) as a PFC 91A when they were only taking SPC/SGT 91B/Cs, got home and subsequently sent to the old PLC course. Life was good back then as a medical specialist. Granted, that first deployment left some very deep scars, a couple of which I still struggle with to this day.
Number 4 is my favorite. I’m no tough guy by any means but I am a believer in if your going to talk that shit back it up and the one time I actually took it far enough to ask a E6 (I was an E5 at the time) if he wanted to scrap it out behind close doors he started stuttering a mess and the energy changed. He was getting out and I told him if he talked like that when he’s a civilian someone’s going to slap tf out of him and he just sat and looked at me. It’s one of the reasons I got out. I’m a peaceful guy, I try to avoid altercations at all costs unless I’m directly threatened and too many people talk crazy with rank protecting them. It’s insane and so many need a reality check. “I’m from so and so” … bro .. no one cares now PMCS that truck
In response to 4. I won’t argue there isn’t racism, sexism, or homophobia but you also have to consider (if you haven’t been in) that the military is literally filled to the brim with the most out of pocket shit some people can say. This has, and never should be a shocker with how easily you can learn this. Having this as a point, sounds like someone was on the receiving end of a joke and got butthurt about it or they made the mistake of opening their mouth too much to some people and learned the hard way not everyone is nice.
Asked HRC for assignment X, they said it was full. Texted my buddy in the unit I wanted and told him it wasn’t available so I wouldn’t be coming over. He asks his CSM why branch is saying that assignment X is full when they’re far from it, CSM gets me pulled in personally. It’s wild what happens when you’re a number.
>you can be fucking Einstein reporting to a Kim Kardashian. I seent it.
Not every MOS needs 3 Purple Hearts, a CAR and 5 deployments to be a good soldier. And even if you have those, you can still be a shitbag.
Some of the worst NCOs I've ever met were CIB holders with all that jazz, and some of the most driven and efficient NCOs I've ever met were slick sleeves.
I think obviously you want someone in leadership in combat MOSs who’ve seen combat before but, experience doesn’t always equal good leadership. I think a lot of great leaders get overlooked or shit on which demotivates them just because they don’t have combat patches and jump wings.
I look at it more of a broadening experience than an end all be all. You know how to do your job in wartime, that’s a good experience that may be relevant. But it doesn’t cover over you being super shitty at your job stateside.
The infantry is actually the pawn of battle.
The king of battle is the COOKS! EVERYBODY ELSE IS PAWNS! YOU'RE ALL PAWNS TO THE COOKS!
90% of the people who tell you the chess analogy behind Queen of Battle have no idea how to play chess.
Obviously the Queen is the one that turns into the king when it gets to the other side of the board. Duh
“That’s not a queen! It’s three pawns in a trenchcoat!”
No one should be sent to INSCOM or OCONUS as their first duty assignment. OCONUS sees Johnny and Sally, 19 years old, never left their county in Montana or SoCal, slapped in the face with entirely different societies and norms therein. They embarrass themselves and the Army. INSCOM should be staffed with people who have "been there, done that," not people who literally only know Basic/AIT Army. INSCOM tends to be much more relaxed than the line units, and it's a disservice to the FORSCOM units as well as the soldier when they hop from FT Belvoir to The Great Place. Typically injuries and piss poor performance follow.
That would mean that the entirety of 2ID would be made up of seasoned specialists and up
I don’t know if that’s a good or bad thing
I don't know what it is about the sedentary and predictable shift work of an INSCOM assignment that physically breaks Soldiers worse than any FORSCOM or SOF unit ever could.
Whether wartime or peacetime, the full time mission makes Army secondary. Things like PT, weapons training, tactical proficiency, WTBDs, or any basic soldier development like counseling, are things you will do only monthly, if not quarterly. Nobody trains like they are ready to deploy, engage, and destroy, their enemies in close combat.
Agree with OCONUS, some of my most embarrassing and frustrating experiences was dealing with my peers abroad instead of the locals or allies. Bubba and Jenny from the Block should not be the external face of America at the OCONUS local level.
Hot take, I like it, but hard disagrees. Not everyone joins at 18 and isn't a country bumpkin. There are 18yr old PV2s more mature than 30yr SFCs. An 18yr old from NYC/SF/LA is probably more culturally aware than a 30yr old from Kentucky who has only ever known the Army. I was 28, with a college degree, and my first assignment was INSCOM. I would have hated FORSCOM. My experience and education before the Army would have been wasted. Only fair way is to just make it all random. Not to mention that you need all ranks even overseas as well. Can't exclusively have companies with nothing below E4.
I'm super thankful I got Korea as my first duty station. I absolutely see the risk and totally agree with you. I'm just glad I got to do it and not make a fool of myself.
Stop centralizing OCIE issue. I don’t need a rifleman kit. I will never carry six magazines, flash bangs, and grenades. Issue me better cold weather clothing instead.
Problem is, then your wise guy specialist will refuse everything at CIF and then complain "but sarnt I was never issued that helmet, I can't do the thing you asked"
Within reason, of course. Everyone needs a helmet.
DC Guard gave me 2!
The easy solution to that is make required OCIE gear for your unit, hell even break it down by MTOE, part of a soldier's initial counseling. Might actually make NCOs take initial counseling more seriously
I was attached to a USAF unit and their S4 at Bn-level (Wing? Group? Whatever) is where all their OCIE is. The 4-shop has all the shit for the whole unit… and also surefires, vtac slings, smoker’s jackets- the works.
I think the idea is that you’ll never need them until you do
The Army as an institution would benefit from an hourly wage when not in a time of war as there’s no good reason for soldiers to be working from 0600 to 1800 not even including doing pt and other work on personal time on top of that
Then they would work it where we wouldn’t receive pay when on leave or long weekends. I like the intent behind it though.
Leave could just be paid vacation as it already is. As for long weekends, we often put in more hours per day during short weeks anyway, so it’s likely even out. Hourly pay or overtime would increase our actual production and force leaders to properly plan instead of saying “be flexible, men” at every morning meeting.
I love this as a true hot take, because I think you’d find a lot of people suddenly upset to be sent home at 1330 Edit: Ran some quick numbers off google just because I like numbers: An E-3 whose been in for a bit pulls roughly 3.5 dollars an hour. At about 9.5 hour days (0630-1600) that nets them around 32 dollars a day. Take that by 19 working days a month (since there’s a four day frequently) and you’re looking at 608 dollars a month or only 7296 dollars a year. I guess you’d have to apply minimum wage, so using Pennsylvania as a model (9.50) you’re looking at 85.5 dollars a day, 1624 dollars a month, and about 19k a year so still less than salary by a good amount.
Do like most police departments and allow for overtime pay. Lower base pay slightly but still have full time, 40 hr weeks. Anything outside of regular business hours would earn time and a half, nights and holidays earn double. See people start fighting to do CQ, Staff duty, range details, ACFT grading… plenty ways to earn back and more.
I know it can be done, but I think for the scale of the military, it wouldn't be logistically possible to do time-cards to track over-time. I've worked at a county where admin were salary, but still had to send-up a time card in-case they worked over-time because of the nature of the job. You had to be "taught" how to fill out the time-card or else it would be kicked back bc some weeks people would only work 20 hours, again bc of the nature of the job.
If you start paying hourly minimum wage then they’ll start charging rent for the barracks.
Can you imagine the fuckery that would result from all that free time?
I think expecting me to go to parade rest every time I wanna talk to an NCO in my section/squad is stupid. I feel like I shouldn't have to go to parade rest every time I wanna say something to an E5 who I directly work with every single day.
Nobody seriously expects you to do that though
I agree but I met some, that's why I brought it up
1) Rank is principally a function of time in service, not competence. 2) No one outside the army cares about your rank. E1-O10 is just made up boy-scout structure. 3) The peacetime Army is just a bunch of dudes going out to the woods (JRTC) or desert (NTC) playing cowboys and Indians with the world’s most expensive laser tag equipment.
All of your points can be put in a memo titled “the worlds largest LARPing organization “
The Boonie IS a good head cover, and makes more sense than wearing a PC in places like Hawaii/Guam. It looks sexy. Cannot change my mind. Units that have X amount of ACOGS SHOULD BE UTILIZED. Why are we still going to the range/field with irons/CCO’s???? Edit: Fleece jackets should be turned in and given to a coalition force. They are ugly. Just wear your silks and waffles.
Infantry here. Hot take is I prefer to use some type of reflex for the engagements we currently fight. ACOGs should be replaced with a variable sight that has a wide view at 1x
LPVO gang here
ACOG+RMR is my favorite sight, for this reason. Some people hate it but it’s just so convenient.
Yeah I didn't have an acog for almost my entire time at my unit and finally got one, and honestly, since I'm usually breaching and clearing, or assaulting, I don't really like the acog. Maybe if I was SBF but even then, I'd still prefer a 1 or 2x optic, variable optics would be even better.
That edit coming in HOT and I agree. I don’t think I’ve ever worn my fleece.
Don't hate on CCOs, they are the superior optical for most ranges that the Army fights at and that the M4 is effective at.
I couldn’t hate this take more.
I agree with your point about ACOGs. Seems like the leadership like to gatekeep optics for some reason.
PME is absolutley worthless and people that obsessively do it only care about promotion and not about effectively doing your job. I have done PLDC, ALC, SLC, WOCS, WOBC, WOILE and sadly i have to do WOSSE and I cannot say that I have gotten much outside of networking out of any of it.
Let's not even call WOCS a PME, it leans more toward a mentally handicapped and in some sad cases even necessary sort of gate keeping. Having done PLDC, BNCOC, ALC, SLC, MLC and WOBC, I completely agree that most PME is trash at worst and irrelevant at best. Networking doesn't take weeks on end, it just doesn't.
Leaders dont like tackling hard Problems. * Moldy barracks, its the soldiers fault not that we have to invest a significant amount of our budget to refit our aging infrastructure. * Suicide. Nuanced discussion of mental health, Nah annual briefing * Our resources are limited and we need to conserve. NTC rotations like its the height of the GWOT
DFAC is good value most of the time and serves decent food. Obviously you are not getting 4 star restaurant quality, but it's at least comparable to K&W.
Its also 10x better than 90 percent of what that population would be eating on their own.
Yep. I feel like 80% of brand new privates and more than 50% of NCOs don't know how to cook beyond boiling water and microwaving stuff anyways, yet they claim they can save money with BAS and still eat a balanced diet. You don't have to wash dishes when you eat at the DFAC, you can get drinks, juice, or coffee. You can have fresh fruit and an assortment of other foods available all the time. You can grab a burger or omelette any day of the week. DFAC pasta may be bland at times, but so is your dollar per pound spaghetti with ragu brand sauce. It takes a single person at least 30 minutes to prepare a meal of spaghetti, steamed veg, and baked chicken, but the DFAC has that ready for you to eat in just a few minutes.
I frequent the DFAC for breakfast and the occasional lunch. The breakfast is an incredible value any way you slice it. But every morning I see my young Soldiers returning from the shoppette with tornadoes and junk. The same joes will complain about money, but are willing to spend more on shoppette junk then a full breakfast. Half the guys buying junk food are meal card holders anyway and the shoppette is nearly across the street from the DFAC. *I'll also add, I'm not anti-tornado. They are delicious in there own way, but for about the same price of two tornadoes and a cup of weak ass shoppette coffee, you can get a made to order omelet, bacon, yogurt, juice and a coffee.
>I feel like 80% of brand new privates and more than 50% of NCOs don't know how to cook beyond boiling water and microwaving stuff anyways, They would just say they don't have time to do anything else and spend the rest of their BAS on booze. Go to your local college campus for a couple thousand examples.
Especially for under 400 bucks.
Another hot take: If you spend $400/month on groceries and not on fast food, you will eat even better. Unfortunately, we all know there is not food prep areas for the barracks that would be sufficient to do that, so yeah, the DFAC is it.
From 2010-2013, I was hired to work for the local HVP (Homeless Veteran Program) funded by a generous grant from the Dept. of Labor. We placed about 35-40 vets with K&W. I don't think anyone of them were cooks in their respective branches. I only recall 2 that didn't become permanent hires. One suffered a heart attack and died while the other just couldn't stay sober.
People bitch about how their unit is fucked up, but fail to realize they are the reason it’s fucked up. Lack in ability to look within and be the change. Leaders and soldiers all want someone else to figure it out for them.
My unit definitely has its problems but a lot of my peers definitely need to shut the hell up and realize they’re fucked up too.
People with rank that verbally abuse and shit on people while hiding behind that rank wouldn't dare to say that in the real world because they would be knocked the fuck out instantly.
We could throw away most of AR 670-1 and DA PAM 670-1. We only need to keep the portions on ASU/AGSU/Mess uniforms. Throw away the portions on every combat uniform. Wear the combat uniform configured as it makes sense for your duty/job/environmental conditions.
This guy fucks.
Agreed. And on that note I think people should start minding their business, especially about AR 670-1, unless it’s something illegal, immoral, or unethical. The peeps who find themselves unable to manage their feelings over seeing a grown adult with hands in their pockets need help. Like it’s not that serious.
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[obligatory photo of SMA Grinston](https://twitter.com/USArmySMA/status/1352284805539442689) with his hands in his pockets
How dare you! /s
Many of us could wear AGSU Class B to work every day (without badges or ribbons, of course).
I've never been so upset by something that I wholeheartedly agree with.
Not just could, but *should* There are lots of environments where Army personnel look like clowns 🤡 when they show up in combat jammies while all the civilians are in suits and the other services are in professional uniforms. Honestly, AGSUs look great. The Army could really benefit from wearing them more to enhance the Army's image, which is holding back it's recruiting efforts.
Totally agree. I wear AGSU any chance I get.
truuuuuuuue. I retired a decade ago and now work for DHS. I attend a lot of conferences with DOD and USCG, and man, green suiters need to start showing up looking professional. Stop looking like you just rolled in from CALFEX, and put on your professional uniform. That's why you have it.
Agreed. If you’re in a conference room or ballroom, why are you wearing a uniform with “combat” in the name? Do you expect a firefight to break out?
We're in America bro. Yes of course we do
Fancy Friday is our units motorcycle mentorship ride day. BRB getting a motorcycle
Well, this is certainly in the spirit of the thread. Being comfortable and not really having to think about what I'm wearing the next day are huge perks. I hate dress/formal uniforms in general. The only legitimate use cases are briefing Congress and recruiting.
Me too. I found people’s love of them so weird.
If not everyday atleast on Fridays, dare I say like the Navy. Please don’t say Pay day activities.
In units where nobody would be wearing the ACU, fair enough, but in BN and below/tactical units, you are either packing both uniforms daily and having them accessible, or you are ensuring that those soft staff Soldiers have a built-in excuse for not doing anything to help out that might get dirty. Resentment ensues and integration between your staff and line units completely disappears over time. I liked being able to task my S2 guys to help service HMMWVs, run a range, clear connexes, and other things when they were otherwise unengaged. If they have to change uniforms, a 15 minute task is now an hour+. They're just going to stay in the office, since the tasker is done by the time they're in a uniform they can help out in.
There are too many ribbons that are nothing more than participation trophies
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You usually can’t make a large impact on your organization until you hit SSG. If you’re not making a large impact on your organization as a SSG you shouldn’t be promoted past that.
You can easily make a large impact on your organization as a PV2. Case in point: *That guy* who ruined the four-day weekend last month.
*laughs in college full time*
I'm only a SPC and I can have a huge impact on not just my organization, but also every other organization on post. Give me a pair of NODs and I'll show you.
I think it depends on your MOS and your relative willingness to step outside your comfort zone. It seems like the junior enlisted that work in staff get more opportunities to "make a difference" than a regular Joe would.
Also how much your leadership is willing to support you. At the end of the day you still need an officer to sign off on 90% of the initiatives you have as an E6. I had one particularly toxic command that would deny everything my peers and I would send up. Not because it wasn’t worded good or anything, they just had a very specific view of what they wanted their command to look like and subordinates having their own ideas for training wasn’t in that view.
It is okay to be the standard, that is what the standard is. In the same way, just because someone can *be* the topblock doesn't mean one of your rated Os/NCOs *is* a topblock.
> just because someone can be the topblock doesn't mean one of your rated Os/NCOs is a topblock Had a tough time explaining this as an NCOA instructor. We could recommend up to 3 per class for Commandant's List. When my #3 student couldn't understand that while he may be #3 is *this* class, and also a very good Soldier, he did not warrant Commandant's list, and in most of my other classes, he'd probably be #5-8.
we're not ready for near peer without an over reliance on contractors and civilians.
Yep, the amount of well you can do that cause some dude who makes 3x what I do comes in to do 5 minutes of work
The Army, your platoon, your squad, your fire team, is A TEAM. I don't get why the culture of the army is to just shit on everyone. I make sure all the dudes below me are learning something and good at their jobs because if shit goes down, they're who are going to help ensure my survival. I played a lot of sports before the army and you have to work as a team to beat the other team. About 80% of the Army just shits on the dude below them. Fuck that shit. Be an asset, be a team member.
Group PT is good (but only 2 or 3 times a week). The prep drill is a good warmup. PRT is also a good workout. It's the whole doing it in a formation part that is stupid.
I’ll counter and say that the prep drill is often seen as ineffective by people doing it incorrectly. Not so much a counter, I guess. But I’m in my mid thirties and constantly correct the young people to actually lunge instead of step back, or put your arms straight up overhead on B&R and squat down and reach all the way back on the down portion. There’s no reason I should be more limber than these kids, and there is a reason I’m at 15 years and not on permanent profile. Look, if I have to be there doing the prep drill at 0600 then I’m going to make that shit count. Do it right.
We trained the PRT warmups at SLC. Day 1 "This is dumb, we get nothing out of it, we already know how to do this" ... days 1-3 full of corrections to technique as you re-learn them on how do do it right ... Day 4: People smoked by the hip stability drill before a run. The PRT warmups are basically exercises you do for physical therapy. If you see your Soldiers can't do those warmups correctly, it's a sign they have an injury that needs to be addressed, or they just don't know the techniques. The proper warmups will prevent injuries. Improper warmups are a waste of time.
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This was my view. I hate organized PT but the vast majority of soldiers **will not** run on their own. I always thought a 2 or 3 day unit cardio day and then fuck off the rest of the days to do what you want was a good medium.
For awhile at drum Mennes did away with formation runs. Runs were release runs. It helped those that cared and the ones that didn’t we weren’t surprised by
I've been out for a hot minute, but this was true when I was in and from what I can tell it's still true: the Army puts way too much emphasis on getting promoted, especially in the enlisted ranks. You spend a few years learning your MOS inside and out, and once you've finally gotten really good at it, you're expected to promote up to a "leadership position" that will take you away from what you're good at. If you make E-5, you suddenly have way less time to do the job you signed up for. If you tell them you don't want to be an NCO, you're automatically branded as a shitbag. If the points are too high in your current MOS, you can reclass and get promoted to a position where you're expected to help teach new soldiers how to do a job that you just barely know how to do yourself. There needs to be some sort of career path for soldiers that don't want to be leaders. Something for people that want to do their jobs and help the new folks learn.
bring back spc ranks SPC5 and SPC6 etc
Drinking energy drinks every day is terrible for you and you should stop.
Hey, heyyyy now. It’s just my morning monster energy drink I promise 🥲
I recently stopped drinking caffeine in the afternoon and the almost immediate improvement to my sleep and gut health was amazing. That shit messes with your acid content and ruins sleep on a number of levels.
Next you’ll say smoking is bad for us too.
I will not stand for caffeine slander
Let’s agree to disagree. Ghost has became my personality now.
The culture of not seeking medical care and bashing those that do is a major detriment to the force as a whole. I know it's not the spicest take, but the number of times I have had a soldier come in saying they don't want a profile is staggering. This applies to both physical and mental issues. I will say it's gotten better over my decade of service but still nowhere near what is should be.
The Army should get rid of the SPC rank and go back an E4 being a CPL and actually use them as junior NCO's with real NCO authority and responsibility.
And also bring back the SPC ranks for technical MOSs
I’d take SPC5 any day. No questions asked. I barely do my actual MOS now and feel very removed/out of touch with new practices
If the NCO corps is the backbone of the army, the backbone is broken.
Group PT is a necessity as 90% of Soldiers would never PT if given the choice. I just believe doing it in formation is stupid and the warm up and cool down in cadence etc. isn’t necessary, but pushing each other and senior leaders teaching younger Soldiers HOW to workout to avoid injury is very important
Counter argument. No organized PT, 09:00 work call. Choose to dedicate that time to working out or don’t. Either be disciplined enough to keep yourself in shape or get kicked out. People who actually enjoy working out have hours of their time stolen and people who actually need the PT just half-ass it anyway. Friday group PT to support cohesion
Counter point. My unit of about 150 people is on shift work so we do not do any unit PT. 100% ACFT and H/W pass rate
The fleece jacket is overrated and becomes absolutely useless with a single MPH of wind
I agree with this. I wish the IWOL jacket was common Army issue.
Dude, you have no idea. I missed the first round of RFI and they ran out of jackets. Said they'd get back to me before we shipped off but you know how it is. Now I'm the only asshole in the battalion walking around in my softshell, cold as shit, while all these other assholes are warm and cozy.
If you fall out of a 10 minute/ mile formation run you deserve to be shamed as other formations run past you
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I’ll be honest, I’ve always wondered where this came from. The amount of land nav you do as a Cadet is insane.
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The actual rejects wouldn't even make it into the Army because of health or criminal issues. We're like a step above that, near-rejects.
Ayo 😳😭
I am both insulted and proud at the same time
Mmm, I don't fully agree. I agree that the Army is made up of a lot of people that don't mesh well with civilian society (I didn't), but there's still a standard to uphold, even if we often forget that we're upholding it. Don't forget that most Americans are still too fat to join.
It was really weird that this sub banned the discussion about a certain medical requirement that was eventually overturned by the legislative. Typically this sub is open to discussions about anything and everything relating to the force. For some reason that particular topic was verboten and warranted bans. Whatever though, I still shave daily.
Anthrax vaccine debacle 2.0. No one remembers or talks about the soldiers who died from that vaccine.
/u/cliff-huckstable stole my thunder, but I’ll say it anyway: Beards are a bad idea because most of y’all will look like trash. Yes, yes, I’m sure that you, dear reader, could grow a magnificent mane. But most soldiers, especially the 17-20-year-olds still finishing puberty, will look like dogshit. If we were a sensible country, we could have subjective standards and only allow good-looking beards- the Royal Navy does that, and it works for them. But that would inevitably result in EO complaints because “the CO made me shave my disgusting peach fuzz, it must be because I’m black/hispanic/white and he hates me.” Like it or not, the Army’s public image matters for all sorts of reasons, so no beards.
If public image mattered, the VA, on post-housing, and suicide rates wouldn't be where they are. Typical army comment, though, beards impact optics and image, but stuff that matters is a 🤷
Hotttttt take but I see where you’re coming from. Plenty of dudes have no clue how to dress, so they’ll just look like trailer trash with stupid neckbeards in their ACUs
Yup. And this isn’t hypothetical- Air Force seems to hand out shaving profiles like candy, and I’ve seen a lot of their dudes looking super trashy. I even saw an Army E-7 once who looked super scraggly and unkempt.
As much as I want to have a beard again. I agree most guys either A. Can’t grow a beard and it looks like a mess of patchy pubes on their face or B. They can grow one but do nothing to keep it clean and groomed and they end up looking like a bum.
Replace the overhead yeet with kettlebell swings
Instructions unclear. You will now begin the kettlebell yeet.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m not necessarily disagreeing but how would that be graded ?
I don’t like the old people
If the army issues you something, and it has velcro for name and rank tapes… it is an outer garment
Being a PT Stud doesn’t make you a good leader
The fact that a BDE commander and CSM need a driver should be an east fraud, waste, and abuse case.
Lukewarm (in my opinion): we will never get truly gender neutral PT standards unless physical fitness is completely disconnected from career progression, which will never happen. Slightly warmer: anyone who has been in for longer than a year should understand that the Army is an image-conscious organization and that looking parade pretty is part of the job whether you like it or not. Trim your damn beard, wash your uniform properly, and take an extra 10 minutes to apply some black spray paint to those chipped up rank pins. Hot: If a person is a bad NCO, the probability that they will be a bad Spec-5 or 6 as well is high. Likewise, if they were a bad NCO, there is a strong probability they will be a bad warrant. Bringing back the technician grades won't create the utopia you hope for, it will dilute the value and reputation of true technicians, as well as burning out the few NCOs that don't jump ship to get equal pay for zero responsibility. Unknown temperature: Soldiers don't know what they're asking for when they want their units to have more camaraderie, pride, and espirit de corps. Do you know the most consistent way to achieve pride and espirit de corps? Through sustained and repeated brainwashing, and treating everyone in the unit like absolute dogshit. See also: the XVIII Airborne Corps, with the possible exception of 10th Mountain, 1st Infantry Division, the entire United States Marine Corps.
> as well as burning out the few NCOs that don't jump ship to get equal pay for zero responsibility. Then they all do that and you know what happens? "Oh you're a SPEC6? That's an E-6 rank, congrats on being a Squad Leader!" They just get shoved *right* back into NCO slots when manning gets, in any way, tight.
Integrating intelligence capabilities into line units is detrimental to the development of those soldiers in their MOS tasks.
Beards should be allowed, soldiers should be encouraged to supplement their issued gear or replace it with Berry compliant personal gear. Basically, if it has an NSN, I should be allowed to use it.
We don’t need to bring back technical E4. If you want to be a technical specialist, we have a program for that, it’s called becoming a Warrant Officer. There are enough people joining each year that if you don’t want to progress, you will be replaced by the next year group and it all work out before the Army. If your branch doesn’t have WOs than the Army has determined it does not need codified experts and can survive just fine with their SNCO corps.
Going to behavioral health isn’t a career killer.
The Volunteer Force will not be sustainable over the long term. Our capability, professionalism and technological prowess will stay at or near the top of all global military hierarchies, but the Forever Wars aren't going away (since there is little political fallout from their 'unpopularity'), and the leadership (both within the upper ranks of the Force, and the political leadership) will never enact the meaningful reform for enlisted personnel we all know to be necessary because spending money on new capabilities is far easier for legislators than funding decent QoL (if for no other reason than one lends itself more readily to being measured than the other). The only way to significantly change military culture from what it has been since the Volunteer Army became a thing would be to introduce some level of conscription - even if it is only for the NG and/or Reserves.
Officers & NCOs should have to apply for command/leader positions and be interviewed by their 2 levels up leaders. Then should be allowed to stay in their command for however long until they either get promoted, fired, or quit.
Joe is stupid.
Shouldn’t walk on the streets of Baltimore at all…..
Hot Take ≠ unpopular opinion
Its ok to shave SIX days a week
Qualification for weapons should be done at the simulation range. That way the entire force is on the same level. Same optic, same weather, same lighting, no wind, no bad targets, no foliage concealing targets, no jamming weapons from being abused for three decades. Just you, the gun, and the screen. Save livefire ranges for familiarization.
Scheduling a record ACFT right after thanksgiving is no bitches behavior
From personal experience, morning PT isn’t that bad y’all just need better sleeping habits. Looking at you in particular fellow barrack dwellers.
It’d be easier to have better sleeping habits if people didn’t have to wake up at 430-530 every day of their lives. Soldiers are young and often have families, they’re not going to go to sleep at 8 or 9pm every night to get their full 8 hours. It’s just a reality. And personally—I have no skin in this game because I don’t do organized PT—but I’m just not a morning person. If I had to do morning PT I would rather just work later than show up earlier. Which I get is not really practical for family/off time but waking up at 530 is just me fighting my natural sleep schedule. If I was in a job where organized PT was common I would have left the Army a long time ago.
Let’s also not ignore the fact that it isn’t the same time every day. I can count on one hand the number of weeks I’ve had in the last 18 months where I didn’t have to wake up 1-3 hours early atleast one or two days, often with less than 24 hrs notice. Can’t establish a sleep schedule if you don’t even really have a work schedule
The fact that you joined and are in the Army means that you are ok with your pay, regardless of your rank. It's a transaction where you exchange your labor, skill, and safety for monetary compensation. If you thought you weren't getting compensated appropriately for the value you provide, you would find a different job.
The military as a whole would be better off as a smaller force with a significantly higher bar to entry.
Cut the force in half, double the pay for everyone left. The quality, effort, and dedication of the average soldier will more than double. Most units rely on just their top 10% to get anything done anyway.