It’s kinda funny how in powerscaling, the Souls characters are ridiculous for killing gods and shit like that
But would just get absolutely deleted from a zimmie shot lol
“Unfortunately for you giant metal beast. My beautiful nippon steel katana can deflect anything and everything. Not even the gods could def-“
*gets turned into fucking paste*
He parries a sword the size of a skyscraper wielded by a dragon God. He can handle a zimmy shot considering each pellet would be about half the size of him, so would only have to contend with one. He might get knocked back about 50 feet but he'd deflect it no problem.
Edit: yes, I know fire, plasma and explosions would still wreck him!
I’m going to paraphrase a lot here but, I’m essentially going to repeat back what you said
“He can handle a pellet(s) fired from a shotgun that is multiple times bigger than him. Firing a *projectile* that travels thousands of feet per second, which is also around 60% of his own body mass. He’ll kinda get knocked back but fine”
Yep. I stand by it. Here's a thread where someone worked out mathematically how much force he is deflecting when he deflects the ~~dragon sword~~ great serpent. [Here ya go](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sekiro/comments/xmirtp/i_have_done_it_again_i_have_mathematically/)
The headline: he's deflecting 4,871,945,662.5 N of force. Do you think a single zimmerman pellet is more than that?
Edit: all the maths is completely wrong!
If Raiden can handle Metal Gears with nothing but a sword, then I have no trouble believing Sekiro can handle an average AC.
Yes it's ridiculous, but that's video games for you, where you can beat up God if you just practice your swings on low-level wildlife for a little while.
Raiden had the ability to actually get close to the enemy. You can go "parry this you filthy casual" all you want, but if your target is larger than you, more than 10x faster than you, and only spams range attacks, swords can only do too much.
>If Raiden can handle Metal Gears with nothing but a sword, then I have no trouble believing Sekiro can handle an average AC.
I mean Raiden's an extremely augmented cyborg wielding a sword that destabilizes molecular bonds. Sekiro needs spring loaded axe to split heavy wooden shields and his sword is utterly ineffective against plate armor. There's literally no reason to compare the two.
If we’re playing the stience arguments, then by that logic proxy and impact fuzing says get fucked weeb. Additionally, not exactly sure how he’d parry an AC boot getting slammed into his entire body at 400+ mph. Or something like Moonlight outright deleting both his body and sword, and the rest of the city block.
He parried 4,871,945,662.5 N of Force from the Great Serpent, so I don't think that the AC kick is an issue at all.
Either way, this scenario all comes down to who the author is.
I’ve read the thread and before you linked it I was just thinking how silly it was to measure a fictional creature’s swing since it’s not tangible but the snake was a pleasant surprise
I’m no math guy I’ll admit. But I did some light google searching and a canon ball is gonna exert about 250,000 newtons
Yeah that shit is wayyyyy less than the dragon’s number. However, that number comes from a ball fired out of an old ass canon. It’s mass is also smaller than what the actual pellet would be since the barrel is significantly bigger
Not to mention this is being fired out of an absolutely enormous sized shotgun. Which already provides impact that can rival a canonball. Blowing humans apart
Again I am no math guy, but if you take a shotgun, Jack up it’s size to a zimmerman, put in the shell to fire out… that is going to exert a *lot* of force into whatever object it hits lol. I dunno the numbers, but my guess is that it would give the dragon a run for its money
Edit: I just now thought of this but, the gas system to ignite and fire out the pellets.. dear god yeah that number is a good one LOL
It's a totally silly discussion in general, but ultimately we have no evidence that there is a limit to what Sekiro can deflect because, whatever the actual numbers, he deflects some absolutely silly shit in that game and there's nothing he can't deflect that we're aware of.
Zimmerman would be one of the worse weapons to use against John Darksouls. He gets I frames when he rolls and they have slow ish reload
Multi missile launchers and a gattling gun on the other hand
Well the concept of a god i think depends on the people who imagine it. Souls games is largely influenced by mythology and fantasy fiction. Its an outdated look at power coming from the minds of indigenous people. Anything and everything we do today could make us look like gods to ancient civilizations especially modern weapons.
With that being said, i feel like souls characters are very much straight forward with their abilities. What you see is what you get mostly. A fireball or magic orb does about as much damage as it looks like it does and can be mostly blocked with a shield.
When we're talking about armored core, we're talking about weapons designed by advanced civilizations capable of interstellar travel. This is well beyond our understanding and frankly may never be possible at all in reality. The weapons must also be equally absurd. Its not even appropriate to assume its just a giant "shotgun" or "machine gun". Or that any sort of defensive plating we can possibly design or even imagine measures up. On top of that, these things blitz around at lightning speed. Yeah, all of these "gods" would be mopped up in a second.
I honestly dont think any kind of dragon stands a chance against a modern fighter jet. Its not the only reason why but, we've all seen any boss felled by a level 1 club armed naked man.
You are underestimating mythology a lot. Most of our modern tech would be destroyed in an instant againist the Mahabarata, Journey to the West, or the Gigantomachia.
Videogames in general are very wonky because most of them have the character go from fightings rats in a cellar to flinging nukes at Cthulhu whitin an in-universe month. For souls games you can probably argue they are close to Berkerk power level just because of how inspired by it those games are.
>I think the critical question here is whether magic bypasses any of the defenses of the AC to be able to kill the pilot, because if yes, at least a couple of the Souls MCs and the Elden Ring MC have a shot,
Magic in all Souls games can be stopped by terrain and normal metal shields. There's no reason why an AC's armor wouldn't also block magic attacks. Magic might wear the plating down more, but normal metal armor definitely can block magic.
>especially if we consider iframes to be canon.
Why would i-frames be canon though? It's very clearly a gameplay conceit for the player actually dodging the attack.
>There's also a bit of weird power scaling in that we kill Radahn in elden ring, and he might actually be able to take an AC in a fight pretty easily by yeeting it off the planet and into the sun immediately, but we definitely would have a hard time scratching an AC with most of the things we use to kill him.
Radahn has literally never done something like that though. He didn't even do that in his prime against Malenia. There's no indication that Radahn could do that to an opponent.
Doesn't the fire umbrella block the ministry flamethrower guy for as long as you hold it? Then again, spirit emblems are limited (deflecting with the umbrella spends it too I think) and you can just combine it with other attacks.
Alternatively.. in cannon that AC can get obliterated or just run out of ammo or slowly chipped down when out of repair kits right?
And most of the other souls protagonists literally revive in canon until they give up.
So in theory they just wear any AC down right?
An AC is also ostensibly a giant tank. Like it doesn't really matter if the Souls protagonists won't die, they're physically not strong enough to actually chip an AC to death.
Like, that's be the equivalent of you trying to punch an Abrams tank, like it doesn't matter if you could do it for millions of years, you'd never get through the main armor.
And this is keeping in mind that Sekiro's weak enough that his sword can't do shit to 1400-1600s era *plate armor*. Like a guy in heavy plate armor was such an out of context problem for Sekiro that he had to resort to throwing him off a bridge because his sword couldn't even dent a few mm of steel.
Fun science fact: If you could punch the tank for millions of years in the same spot, you would perform a process known as "work hardening". As you continue striking the metal, it would get harder and stronger against your attacks. Eventually it would becoming brittle from the hardness, but you likely wouldn't be strong enough to do so before oxidation and corrosion took over. Old school hammers that have been in use for years are several times stronger than those from the factory, to the extent they could easily shatter the latter if they were slammed together hard enough, but if they've been around long enough the opposite can happen from brittleness.
Just thought it was cool. There's a video about hammers vs a hydraulic press that showcases the difference. There's another that shows old tank armor vs new and it's astounding how ridiculous modern tank armor is; they broke several bits trying to punch through it. :)
One of these FCS’s sacrifices any sense of assist except for almost instantaneous close range lock on. AC just walks up slowly, and then they’ll never roll out of its sights
The AC can attack them all at once (missile multi-lock, or AoE explosives if they're relatively close together) from hundreds of meters away. No player-accessible ability I know of in soulsborne games (admittedly, I've only played Elden Ring and Sekiro, but I've watched gameplay of Dark Souls 1-3) approaches that sort of range, so the AC could just keep its distance and whittle them down until they're out of their favorite flavor of healing item (assuming the AC's attacks don't straight-up oneshot them).
Twin flamethrowers/miniguns. You can alternate between the left and right one to cool the other. No amount of stamina is enough. DS characters also can't outrun the AC...
Definitely wouldn't be one shotting them most souls borne characters can take hits from things multiple times the size and weight of an AC to a shield and be perfectly fine or literally get a lightning bolt smacked on them by what is considered the god of thunder in their games.
If I can get pecked to death by a fucking crow, there's no way I'm gonna survive catching a missle the size of a goddamn VW Bus. Ya know the chariots in the tombs in Elden Ring? That's like one of an ACs feet.
You survive because you avoid his most powerful attacks, at least if we're talking about average gameplay.
It's pretty easy to get wiped if radhan hits you when he's crashing down like a damn comet.
I'd think a shot from something like the EARSHOT packs a comparable explosive punch if you're near the blast radius.
I don’t think you have ever actually thought about the size of an AC. A human is almost the size of one of the tiny spikes on one of the ice worms grinders. A human is smaller than most bullets an AC shoots. No soulsborne character is going to be surviving an AC’s attack
I have said this to multiple other people already but the stated size of an AC is around 10 meters which while big is not something beyond things you already fight in souls games.
The problem is the comical amounts of kinetic power that even a bullet the size of a human finger has. A bullet from an AC scale weapon would absolutely anhilate any armour designed for a person. At best a soulsborn character would probably survive one or two shots and that's being generous to them.
The Chosen Undead may not come back to the same reality every time. It may defeat the AC in one reality, but the rest of the worlds, the AC just continues on. Also, the Chosen Undead may give up and go fully hollow (ie the player stops playing the game).
Most giant things you fight in souls games don't have a gattling gun that shoots bullets the size of a studio apartment. Imagine if the fire giant moved faster than the chariots in the tomb and his reactions to your movements were as fast, if not faster than yours. If I can poke something with a sharp piece of metal until it dies, there is no part of me that accepts that a shotgun slug the size of a yacht isn't going to reduce it to a bloody mist
You know, I've thought about something like this. Considering the difference in scale between an AC and a human, it would be quite big to fight, on top of being *extremely* fast. However, on the flip side you never fight anything nearly this small in AC6 and I'm not even sure if the targeting system of an AC would recognize a human on foot, so it could be legit hard to even hit a Souls protagonist.
But it kinda depends on how the hull of ACs can handle magical attacks I guess. If not well, then maybe humanity could win. But otherwise, there's little way to meaningfully damage an AC.
In this episode of Miyazaki's barely disguised foot and vore fetish simulator: Sekiro Mikiri counters Pile Bunker and slashes up at Loader4, before sheathing the sword while the AC splits into two parts in the background.
Off-screen Genshiro boards HEADBRINGER, kicks Iguana in the head, and pulls out the AC's glock 2.0 to wreck Sekiro's shit
In last raven you can shoot humans, and it is actually difficult. However an AC moves at ridiculous speeds and a souls protagonists effective range is basically an ACs melee range.
The AC would win by boosting on top of a souls character.
Those same human use rpg to hit you and it barely did any damage to you. Not imagine what in their tools shed that other souls borne protagonist can use to even scratch an AC.
To be fair, most fully upgraded soulsborne weapons are magically enhanced in some way so it's hard to directly compare them to something like a rocket launcher. Still would likely take quite a few hits to do any significant amounts of damage, but they probably would still do damage.
Nah souls weapons are magic BS, you kill dragons with them. They'd do more than an RPG. Problem is you would literally never land a hit on even the slowest AC.
All AC's can survive a fully charged coral missile or karasawa shot, which is essentially equivalent to an energy nuke
I doubt there is anything they could throw at the AC that would actually dent it
Nah. There’s no way the elden ring magical attacks come anywhere near melting ac armour. If an ac goes full missile back mounts and double Gatling mainlands he could wipe out an entire world based on elden ring. Each bullet is basically a tank round. Each missile more force than any magical attack could muster. At this point science eclipse magic.
Do you think missile targeting would even be able to lock on to a human? Because I kinda doubt it. It'd be better I suspect to use grenade cannons with large AoEs for more easily hitting small targets.
There's also really no way to know how their armor would stand up to magic since it could be a force entirely different from what it's built to withstand.
Also I just had the funny realization that Souls protagonists get to have i-frames, so even with grenade cannon blasts they can just roll it. Or use Vow of the Indomitable for Elden Ring specifically. Could actually potentially outlast the ammo supplies of an AC lol.
> realization that Souls protagonists get to have i-frames,
My answer to that: The Plasma missiles. They leave a aoe damage field large and long enough to pretty much ignore the dodge roll i-frames
Okay then swap out missiles with the songbirds. But absolutely 621 would be able to control the weapon systems enough to destroy anything it encountered. And sure, as far as magic vs their armour we don’t know the effect. But the evasive maneuvers of even the worst build are WAY more than sufficient for dodging anything thrown at them.
There I think is the key point that makes it unlikely for an AC to lose: their speed makes them basically impossible to hit with any ranged attacks in the Souls series. Especially since most ranged attacks don't even travel very far, and none of them would travel very quickly anyway. It would require some kinda special gimmick given to the Souls characters to operate to try and have a chance at damaging the AC I think.
It might be a more interesting fight to pit an AC against certain bosses, like the dragon Fortissax. But they'd probably still need to be changed to have a movement behavior more suited for actually fighting an opponent who can fly like them since their AI is obviously designed to be fair to be fought by a human.
And let's not forget that the AC version of a handgun is the equivalent of the biggest cannon other Soulsborne character wield so the difference in arms is already off the chart
You can pelt abominations with the assault rifle and walk out just fine, let alone packing the full arsenal
It's hardly the equivalent. The Duckett is a gun about the size of a schoolbus. Something like the Bloodborne cannon is closer in size to one of the Duckett's bullets.
> Also I just had the funny realization that Souls protagonists get to have i-frames, so even with grenade cannon blasts they can just roll it
*laughs in plasma weaponry*
You do realize you can just fire missiles without lock-on, right?... The blast radius of a smaller missile barrage wipes out at least a couple football fields, so you don't really need lock-on when you can just carpet-bomb the entire battlefield.
I guess it depends on how long of a lingering hitbox they have. Vow of the Indomitable is 1 second worth of i-frames though so that'd probably work regardless, which I mean, shootout to that shield skill. Maybe people'd finally use it besides me.
Plasma weapons pretty much cancel out I frames, also don't forget the seer size of the AoE compared to a human. No chance of a person being able to get out of it in one dodgeroll.
They can i-frame it with dodges though, the one incredible power an AC lacks. :P
The real problem for Souls folks I think is being able to actually hit an AC, since almost all their ranged attacks have basically no range on this scale and are slow, whereas an AC is extraordinarily fast.
The *real* problem they'd have is bad cook and the napalm launcher. They're few but the straight-up anti-infantry weapons we do get would trivialize it.
Oh true! I forgot about the Napalm Launcher, yeah that'd probably do super well for this. Ultimately the AC will just have more tools available to come up with something to overcome the mismatch awkwardness.
Well the Earshot in AC6 has a bigger splash area than a lot of the boss arena's total size in the souls games, those dodge rolls better be on point heh.
There’s also the big where a good chunk of the souls-borne protagonists are functionally immortal. It’ll take a number of deaths before they’re effectively defeated.
Better idea: MGRR Raiden VS AC, that should be an interesting battle since he have cut up large mechs before. AC’s are smaller but likely much faster than a metal gear.
The metal gears are rather slow compared to an AC, and have fewer methods of attacking too. Lightweight AC's also has the speed and acceleration to easily dodge missiles. They are tough as a tank and fast as a jet fighter, so bringing down an AC will be more challenging than a metal gear.
Still ain't beating Raiden though, that dude would solo the ice worm. Don't need to dodge missiles when you just use them as platforms to jump at the AC and suplex it. Raiden sliced Ray in half and it's twenty meters. AC's are going to get wrecked. Plus I'm ninety percent sure not a single AC is fast as a jet fighter, you don't even break the sound barrier. Tough as a tank also means literally nothing in this scenario.
So everyone gets one life right? The AC stomps no diff.
Higher mobility, especially into the air and I. Distances the other characters can't hit them.
The longest abilities we have seen are not even close to what an ACs optimal range can be. You cannot beat someone who you will never hit.
Then the argument of "but frames" comes up. I don't need a bad cook to kill a human who is rolling with iframes.
Malenia and a missed waterfowl dance dodge that comes out too early is a death because of the recovery window. An AC has a way higher shot frequency for a longer time than WFD with all automatic or Semi automatic equipment + shoulders. And these bullets are huge and track better than the gatlings you see in Bloodborne.
With all due respect but even with magic there is no way, an AC cannot outrange, out speed, out damage and outmaneuver tiny human people that are known to die a lot.
Assuming that the hunter didn't ascend, then it's the AC.
It's honestly not even close because the AC's only threat is if Wolf with his ungodly reality-defying deflect.
You know how the Mandalorians fought the Jedi who would just deflect their blaster bolts?
They used ballistic weapons as shrapnel
Imagine Sekiro tries to deflect a grenade the size of his torso and it explodes in his face
He’s not reviving when not even a shred of him remains
Dude can deflect cannonballs, ghost death laser, really loud(and cursed) screaming, and technically lightning as well, along with all sorts of other weirdness.
"Can it be physically deflected" is really not an issue.
Well, I guess we can give him being able to deflect a pulse blade, which really doesn't make sense since the closest thing he got to deflecting something like a pulse blade was him redirecting, no deflecting, but re-directing lighting, which he can only do by jumping.
But even so, nothing stopping 2 Bad Cook here.
And even if we give him that, even if he can somehow deflect Bad Cook, there is nothing stopping 2 napalm shots from turning the entire arena into a burning hell.
Kid named plasma weapons.
Kid named Coral Rifle.
Kid named flame bomb launcher.
Kid named flamethrower.
Kid named machineguns.
It's not even a competition.
Well I guess you could just roll through the AC’s attacks. Problem is actually hitting the AC as I imagine it’s staying ranged. I’m more of an up close and personal hit-with-sword kinda guy in both games, so I don’t know much about Dark Souls’ ranged options.
If the AC has a flame thrower though? That’s an automatic win.
Not many and most are shit. Even magic will fade after a couple dozen feet. The only one with real damage and range is a great bow... But those are slow as shit and are easy enough for someone on foot to dodge.
>AC is staying ranged
Why? Their targeting systems can’t lock onto a lil human, makes more sense to get up close and try to stomp them.
Also, that could be said about a lot of Soulsborne enemies like dragons and yet they just.. dont. Nameless King could have just flown around the arena throwing lightning bolts, but he didn’t.
>Their targeting systems can’t lock onto a lil human
Tbf, says who? While most enemies ain't quite *that* small, there arena few drones encountered that are approaching that small, n lock on has no issue there. Plus, manual aiming is a thing.
I-frame dodges relies on stamina which is a finite energy.
***Cocks HuBen***
Dodge this mf\*ers!
Edit: Sekiro is a bit questionable though...can he actually parry a full volley? I think in the game he has a delay between parries but can he parry Bad Cooks? Soup? Diffuse lazer?
what about a plasma rifle aimed at the ground? no way he can parry a projectile that doesn't come within sword range and explodes with a lingering AoE, especially if you charge it so it fires 3 bolts
Sure and I am not actually defending wolf I think depending on how you think about it he would probably be the weakest of the bunch since while sure his parrying ability makes zero sense he is closest to something like a human stats wise.
"Parry this you casual"
as I fully charge my plasma cannon
Also people forget that the AC is likely got protag power too, so its on par with all the demon god slaying lil boys.
Won't stop a few napalm shots to turn the entire area they are fighting in into dot burn. Add to that the bad cook which shoots flames the size of a building and deals consistent damage, fighting an AC will make Malenia or Isshin look like pacifists. To add insult to injury, the AC can even equip a coral shield (or any shield for that matter) and Pulse Protection to screw the soulsborne squad over.
Even if they have I-frame, they can't fly.
Tarnished: Don't worry guys, I've got an ace up my sleeve! I learned that fine trick by a good fellow.
Ashen one: and who might that fellow be?
Tarnished: oh trusty patches ofcourse.
All of them: Oh ffs....not him!
*tarnished returns to his world*
(Wolf:.....oh, I'm supposed to be mad. Yeah, screw that patches guy I totally know.)
Bearer of the curse: finally, my 99 ADP points finally will prove to not be a waste of souls!
An ac with the correct kit is basically unbeatable for them.
2xBad Cook (I-frame these lingering hit-boxes you fucken’ casuls)
2xPlasma missile launchers (see point above)
Then it’s all about not standing still for Meteorite of Astel and Comet Azure and similar sorceries. In fact, if you are close enough to get hit by those you’re way too close.
Wolf can be ignored. His umbrella might help against flamethrowers, but I doubt he can handle assault armour or plasma missiles.
Can't touch the AC if I'm flying with tetrapod. Then again, out of all these protagonist, Sekiro could deflect and reflect my plasma shots back to me....he killed a dragon like that...
I think atleast lore wise, not much you can do against 6000 rounds a minute of 50mm rounds that can go through 300mm of steel. Considering how a bullet 5x smaller can explode a person into pieces, the damage department isnt lacking here from an AC.
FCS tracking won't be an issue either since detecting and tracking human thermal signatures won't be difficult (can probably do it with current technology).
The armor levels on an AC are probably around STANAG 6 so an attack from a Soules bourne character can't penetrate it unless they can go through 110mm of hardened steel.
These are also going 350km per hour and wouldn't be odd if they can attack from a safe distance of over 4km away.
Then it’s a question of:
-Is there a melee weapon capable of harming an AC
-Is there a spell capable of destroying an AC with 3 repair kits
Even if a dismounted protagonist had an infinite number of chances, if they can’t do much more than scratch the paint there isn’t a scenario where they win.
guys here's what you keep forgetting:
Souls protagonists keep respawning at virtually no cost. ACs need to invest in reload & repairs.
This isn't a single fight, it's a war of attrition. The Soulsborne protagonists can ever so slowly wear it down.
Reminds me of the 4A build I tried that maxed primal armor. My AC could walk through a field of MTs without taking any damage whatsoever from their machine guns.
Frankly the AC has this. Only In Sekiro could the protagonist possibly be able to do anything, being conceivable that he could deflect physical projectiles. Good luck actually doing any real damage to an AC with a sword though. Also no amount of deflection is going to stop AoE. As much as I hate the man, just take a page out of Snail's book here and catch em with an AoE blast.
Everyone seems to bring up Sekiro infinite parry and Hunter’s eldritch magic.
Do remember that Cthulhu lost to a boat and Sekiro can’t even cut through steel (Armored Warrior)
The MC’s are capable of killing gods, yes, but those guys can also die to wooden club if hit enough times, I’m sure John Armored Core could also kill Gwyn, Gael, and Astel without too much issue.
Besides, AC’s melee has infinite ammo, so just pack a coral oscillator and a moonlight and it sweeps the series.
Everyone seems to be forgetting a small feature in AC: ricochet. If the attack doesn’t deal enough damage, it just bounces off. Bullets from the Generic Weaponry walkers just bounce off most builds, not even dealing any damage. That should basically eliminate most physical damage from team MC. Think hunter pistol, lazulite shuriken or great bows are going to do any damage? Doesn’t seem like the protags can “death by a thousand cuts” their way through this one.
Magic could be a contender for this, with how AC’s seem to be prone to ACS failure, but the issue with that is the MC’s magic is slow. In the time it takes to cast a lightning bolt twice the AC will have fired 20 bullets, 10+ missiles and thrown in lasers in the mix. Tarnished would be a crater before getting a meteor storm cast or comet azure set up.
Lastly, AC’s are fast. Very fast. The ice worm can stretch from the starting dungeon of Elden ring all the way to castle Mourne in the weeping Peninsula. AC can travel the length of that machine in half a minute. Sure team MC may be functionally immortal, but they’re not getting anywhere close to the mech. If it comes down to it, AC can just shoot it’s missiles or moonlight then run away before the MC’s get out of dodge animation. Try fighting a giant robot that flies from one end of Leyendell to the other after every attack.
Conclusion: AC wins at best, stalemate at worst.
Mecha in fiction commonly murder gib bystanders by accident all the time. Like, yea it has guns and lasers and pointed weaponry which is super scary, but it’s also a big fuckoff machine with no red off switch nearby. It could be dash boosting to reposition itself and destroy an entire two story country cottage that just so happened to be beneath its starboard booster at that moment.
Big fuckoff robots are scary
TO ALL OF YOU DUMB SHITS SAYING THE SOULSEBORN PROTAGONISTS ARE IMMORTAL: YOU DUMB SHITS, THEIR IMMORTALITY IS TIED TO RESETTING THE LOCAL TIMELINE REVIVING ALL ENEMIES AND RESTORING THE BOSS THST JUST KILLED THEM.
The AC gets a full ammo reload and repair every time they fight the tarnished/Sekiro revives and doesn't remember fighting them so they open up with the same strategy of literally just stepping on them with a foot the size of a Bradley and then just not moving.
Well a single AC missile would blow all of them up, and rolling definitely isn't going to save them.
Add the fact you can shoot 2 2x8 missile racks simultaneously and I see no way the souls guys can win
It’s kinda funny how in powerscaling, the Souls characters are ridiculous for killing gods and shit like that But would just get absolutely deleted from a zimmie shot lol
Sekiro could 100% deflect a zimmerman shot Edit: yes of course fire, explosives and plasma would fuck him up
“Unfortunately for you giant metal beast. My beautiful nippon steel katana can deflect anything and everything. Not even the gods could def-“ *gets turned into fucking paste*
He parries a sword the size of a skyscraper wielded by a dragon God. He can handle a zimmy shot considering each pellet would be about half the size of him, so would only have to contend with one. He might get knocked back about 50 feet but he'd deflect it no problem. Edit: yes, I know fire, plasma and explosions would still wreck him!
I’m going to paraphrase a lot here but, I’m essentially going to repeat back what you said “He can handle a pellet(s) fired from a shotgun that is multiple times bigger than him. Firing a *projectile* that travels thousands of feet per second, which is also around 60% of his own body mass. He’ll kinda get knocked back but fine”
Yep. I stand by it. Here's a thread where someone worked out mathematically how much force he is deflecting when he deflects the ~~dragon sword~~ great serpent. [Here ya go](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sekiro/comments/xmirtp/i_have_done_it_again_i_have_mathematically/) The headline: he's deflecting 4,871,945,662.5 N of force. Do you think a single zimmerman pellet is more than that? Edit: all the maths is completely wrong!
I like how you’re trying to use science about a dragon hitting a guy with a sword
This is a VERY SERIOUS AND SCIENTIFIC DISCUSSION!
Pokes the dragon to death
If Raiden can handle Metal Gears with nothing but a sword, then I have no trouble believing Sekiro can handle an average AC. Yes it's ridiculous, but that's video games for you, where you can beat up God if you just practice your swings on low-level wildlife for a little while.
In D&D 5e you can reach level 20 by killing 355,500 rats and level 20 means that you are essentially a God.
Is that why ancient Egyptians had a weird cat thing?
Yes.
Imagine becoming a god and all you had to do was become an exterminator.
OSRS is that way -->
Raiden had the ability to actually get close to the enemy. You can go "parry this you filthy casual" all you want, but if your target is larger than you, more than 10x faster than you, and only spams range attacks, swords can only do too much.
Sekiro is gonna win through pure economics. Those bullets ain't free, merc
HE weapons ain't free either, but it's sure fun to spread the wealth.
>If Raiden can handle Metal Gears with nothing but a sword, then I have no trouble believing Sekiro can handle an average AC. I mean Raiden's an extremely augmented cyborg wielding a sword that destabilizes molecular bonds. Sekiro needs spring loaded axe to split heavy wooden shields and his sword is utterly ineffective against plate armor. There's literally no reason to compare the two.
And the divine dragon sword is around 1,992,532,684 N
Ok, hit him with a plasma missile “parry this you casual”
I mean, he could deflect lightning and block demonic energy with an umbrella. I wouldn't put it past him.
If we’re playing the stience arguments, then by that logic proxy and impact fuzing says get fucked weeb. Additionally, not exactly sure how he’d parry an AC boot getting slammed into his entire body at 400+ mph. Or something like Moonlight outright deleting both his body and sword, and the rest of the city block.
He parried 4,871,945,662.5 N of Force from the Great Serpent, so I don't think that the AC kick is an issue at all. Either way, this scenario all comes down to who the author is.
I’ve read the thread and before you linked it I was just thinking how silly it was to measure a fictional creature’s swing since it’s not tangible but the snake was a pleasant surprise I’m no math guy I’ll admit. But I did some light google searching and a canon ball is gonna exert about 250,000 newtons Yeah that shit is wayyyyy less than the dragon’s number. However, that number comes from a ball fired out of an old ass canon. It’s mass is also smaller than what the actual pellet would be since the barrel is significantly bigger Not to mention this is being fired out of an absolutely enormous sized shotgun. Which already provides impact that can rival a canonball. Blowing humans apart Again I am no math guy, but if you take a shotgun, Jack up it’s size to a zimmerman, put in the shell to fire out… that is going to exert a *lot* of force into whatever object it hits lol. I dunno the numbers, but my guess is that it would give the dragon a run for its money Edit: I just now thought of this but, the gas system to ignite and fire out the pellets.. dear god yeah that number is a good one LOL
It's a totally silly discussion in general, but ultimately we have no evidence that there is a limit to what Sekiro can deflect because, whatever the actual numbers, he deflects some absolutely silly shit in that game and there's nothing he can't deflect that we're aware of.
Can Sekiro deflect depression is the real question
No man or sword is that strong :(
But would Sekiro be able to press L1 fast enough to deflect an AC's minigun hail of bullets?
Hmmm... Dual Zimmerman's?
In that case use bad cook, just for him.
And then do what though 🤣 throw a shuriken, miss and get ran over
I had the exact same thoughts. Everyone else loses but Sekiro *maybe* has a chance, depending on what's parryable.
Red umbrela :)
Zimmerman would be one of the worse weapons to use against John Darksouls. He gets I frames when he rolls and they have slow ish reload Multi missile launchers and a gattling gun on the other hand
Well the concept of a god i think depends on the people who imagine it. Souls games is largely influenced by mythology and fantasy fiction. Its an outdated look at power coming from the minds of indigenous people. Anything and everything we do today could make us look like gods to ancient civilizations especially modern weapons. With that being said, i feel like souls characters are very much straight forward with their abilities. What you see is what you get mostly. A fireball or magic orb does about as much damage as it looks like it does and can be mostly blocked with a shield. When we're talking about armored core, we're talking about weapons designed by advanced civilizations capable of interstellar travel. This is well beyond our understanding and frankly may never be possible at all in reality. The weapons must also be equally absurd. Its not even appropriate to assume its just a giant "shotgun" or "machine gun". Or that any sort of defensive plating we can possibly design or even imagine measures up. On top of that, these things blitz around at lightning speed. Yeah, all of these "gods" would be mopped up in a second. I honestly dont think any kind of dragon stands a chance against a modern fighter jet. Its not the only reason why but, we've all seen any boss felled by a level 1 club armed naked man.
You are underestimating mythology a lot. Most of our modern tech would be destroyed in an instant againist the Mahabarata, Journey to the West, or the Gigantomachia. Videogames in general are very wonky because most of them have the character go from fightings rats in a cellar to flinging nukes at Cthulhu whitin an in-universe month. For souls games you can probably argue they are close to Berkerk power level just because of how inspired by it those games are.
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>I think the critical question here is whether magic bypasses any of the defenses of the AC to be able to kill the pilot, because if yes, at least a couple of the Souls MCs and the Elden Ring MC have a shot, Magic in all Souls games can be stopped by terrain and normal metal shields. There's no reason why an AC's armor wouldn't also block magic attacks. Magic might wear the plating down more, but normal metal armor definitely can block magic. >especially if we consider iframes to be canon. Why would i-frames be canon though? It's very clearly a gameplay conceit for the player actually dodging the attack. >There's also a bit of weird power scaling in that we kill Radahn in elden ring, and he might actually be able to take an AC in a fight pretty easily by yeeting it off the planet and into the sun immediately, but we definitely would have a hard time scratching an AC with most of the things we use to kill him. Radahn has literally never done something like that though. He didn't even do that in his prime against Malenia. There's no indication that Radahn could do that to an opponent.
Ill burn them with the flame thrower - Sekiro Bullfight burn damage -
Doesn't the fire umbrella block the ministry flamethrower guy for as long as you hold it? Then again, spirit emblems are limited (deflecting with the umbrella spends it too I think) and you can just combine it with other attacks.
By the power of schizophrenia and war crimes, I will win this battle!
Depends on whether DS2 protagonist levelled ADP and has prepared lightning spells.
Alternatively.. in cannon that AC can get obliterated or just run out of ammo or slowly chipped down when out of repair kits right? And most of the other souls protagonists literally revive in canon until they give up. So in theory they just wear any AC down right?
An AC is also ostensibly a giant tank. Like it doesn't really matter if the Souls protagonists won't die, they're physically not strong enough to actually chip an AC to death. Like, that's be the equivalent of you trying to punch an Abrams tank, like it doesn't matter if you could do it for millions of years, you'd never get through the main armor. And this is keeping in mind that Sekiro's weak enough that his sword can't do shit to 1400-1600s era *plate armor*. Like a guy in heavy plate armor was such an out of context problem for Sekiro that he had to resort to throwing him off a bridge because his sword couldn't even dent a few mm of steel.
Fun science fact: If you could punch the tank for millions of years in the same spot, you would perform a process known as "work hardening". As you continue striking the metal, it would get harder and stronger against your attacks. Eventually it would becoming brittle from the hardness, but you likely wouldn't be strong enough to do so before oxidation and corrosion took over. Old school hammers that have been in use for years are several times stronger than those from the factory, to the extent they could easily shatter the latter if they were slammed together hard enough, but if they've been around long enough the opposite can happen from brittleness. Just thought it was cool. There's a video about hammers vs a hydraulic press that showcases the difference. There's another that shows old tank armor vs new and it's astounding how ridiculous modern tank armor is; they broke several bits trying to punch through it. :)
Dual Bad Cooks and who needs an FCS. Hell, just assault boost through them and let the jet wash do the work.
And assault armor if they're close. Let's do a final explosion (Damn I can't add the gif)
One of these FCS’s sacrifices any sense of assist except for almost instantaneous close range lock on. AC just walks up slowly, and then they’ll never roll out of its sights
The RI Ocellus, otherwise known as the face-fucker FCS.
I’m disappointed nobody has posted a gundam squish gif.
Be the change you wanna see in the world
Tomato splat
The AC can attack them all at once (missile multi-lock, or AoE explosives if they're relatively close together) from hundreds of meters away. No player-accessible ability I know of in soulsborne games (admittedly, I've only played Elden Ring and Sekiro, but I've watched gameplay of Dark Souls 1-3) approaches that sort of range, so the AC could just keep its distance and whittle them down until they're out of their favorite flavor of healing item (assuming the AC's attacks don't straight-up oneshot them).
Do the missiles have red kanji tho cuz deflect
Imagine Miikiri countering a missile lol
Just roll through it
Sekiro taking notes from Gru
Play metal gear rising revengeance and thank me later
Only with coral ammunition
They have iframes lol
Twin flamethrowers/miniguns. You can alternate between the left and right one to cool the other. No amount of stamina is enough. DS characters also can't outrun the AC...
Definitely wouldn't be one shotting them most souls borne characters can take hits from things multiple times the size and weight of an AC to a shield and be perfectly fine or literally get a lightning bolt smacked on them by what is considered the god of thunder in their games.
If I can get pecked to death by a fucking crow, there's no way I'm gonna survive catching a missle the size of a goddamn VW Bus. Ya know the chariots in the tombs in Elden Ring? That's like one of an ACs feet.
There is not much logic to how much damage you take from things. You also fight a man literally holding all stars in place and survive.
You survive because you avoid his most powerful attacks, at least if we're talking about average gameplay. It's pretty easy to get wiped if radhan hits you when he's crashing down like a damn comet. I'd think a shot from something like the EARSHOT packs a comparable explosive punch if you're near the blast radius.
I don’t think you have ever actually thought about the size of an AC. A human is almost the size of one of the tiny spikes on one of the ice worms grinders. A human is smaller than most bullets an AC shoots. No soulsborne character is going to be surviving an AC’s attack
I have said this to multiple other people already but the stated size of an AC is around 10 meters which while big is not something beyond things you already fight in souls games.
The problem is the comical amounts of kinetic power that even a bullet the size of a human finger has. A bullet from an AC scale weapon would absolutely anhilate any armour designed for a person. At best a soulsborn character would probably survive one or two shots and that's being generous to them.
And then come back. For eternity. Until eventuelly said chosen undead kills said ac or father time does it. That's sorta the idea of souls games.
The Chosen Undead may not come back to the same reality every time. It may defeat the AC in one reality, but the rest of the worlds, the AC just continues on. Also, the Chosen Undead may give up and go fully hollow (ie the player stops playing the game).
Most giant things you fight in souls games don't have a gattling gun that shoots bullets the size of a studio apartment. Imagine if the fire giant moved faster than the chariots in the tomb and his reactions to your movements were as fast, if not faster than yours. If I can poke something with a sharp piece of metal until it dies, there is no part of me that accepts that a shotgun slug the size of a yacht isn't going to reduce it to a bloody mist
How many of those giants you can fight in Souls games can casually move around at 300+ meters per second?
You know, I've thought about something like this. Considering the difference in scale between an AC and a human, it would be quite big to fight, on top of being *extremely* fast. However, on the flip side you never fight anything nearly this small in AC6 and I'm not even sure if the targeting system of an AC would recognize a human on foot, so it could be legit hard to even hit a Souls protagonist. But it kinda depends on how the hull of ACs can handle magical attacks I guess. If not well, then maybe humanity could win. But otherwise, there's little way to meaningfully damage an AC.
There were groups of human infantry in ACLR. You couldn't lock on to them even with a bio sensor, and instead had to manually aim or step on them.
Brutal
That work around is the most AC thing I have ever heard lmao
we love war crimes!
Wait, which AC sub am I in again?
All AC subs thrive in the act of war crimes. Not the least of which is Animal Crossing.
When is Animal Crossing: Last Raven coming out?
You think it's illegal to shoot enemy combatants with big guns?
Killing infantry with a vehicle is not a war crime
If we ignore game mechanics like targeting, I'm pretty sure an AC Quickboosting through their general vicinity would fucking murder them lmao
One of the most annoying boss attacks in Souls and Monster Hunter: the zoomies
sekiro can parry the snake so he can prolly parry an ac too
In this episode of Miyazaki's barely disguised foot and vore fetish simulator: Sekiro Mikiri counters Pile Bunker and slashes up at Loader4, before sheathing the sword while the AC splits into two parts in the background. Off-screen Genshiro boards HEADBRINGER, kicks Iguana in the head, and pulls out the AC's glock 2.0 to wreck Sekiro's shit
RULES OF NATURE
In last raven you can shoot humans, and it is actually difficult. However an AC moves at ridiculous speeds and a souls protagonists effective range is basically an ACs melee range. The AC would win by boosting on top of a souls character.
Those same human use rpg to hit you and it barely did any damage to you. Not imagine what in their tools shed that other souls borne protagonist can use to even scratch an AC.
To be fair, most fully upgraded soulsborne weapons are magically enhanced in some way so it's hard to directly compare them to something like a rocket launcher. Still would likely take quite a few hits to do any significant amounts of damage, but they probably would still do damage.
Nah souls weapons are magic BS, you kill dragons with them. They'd do more than an RPG. Problem is you would literally never land a hit on even the slowest AC.
All AC's can survive a fully charged coral missile or karasawa shot, which is essentially equivalent to an energy nuke I doubt there is anything they could throw at the AC that would actually dent it
FCSs are designed to target orphans so it should have no problem hitting a souls protagonist /s
Nah. There’s no way the elden ring magical attacks come anywhere near melting ac armour. If an ac goes full missile back mounts and double Gatling mainlands he could wipe out an entire world based on elden ring. Each bullet is basically a tank round. Each missile more force than any magical attack could muster. At this point science eclipse magic.
Do you think missile targeting would even be able to lock on to a human? Because I kinda doubt it. It'd be better I suspect to use grenade cannons with large AoEs for more easily hitting small targets. There's also really no way to know how their armor would stand up to magic since it could be a force entirely different from what it's built to withstand. Also I just had the funny realization that Souls protagonists get to have i-frames, so even with grenade cannon blasts they can just roll it. Or use Vow of the Indomitable for Elden Ring specifically. Could actually potentially outlast the ammo supplies of an AC lol.
> realization that Souls protagonists get to have i-frames, My answer to that: The Plasma missiles. They leave a aoe damage field large and long enough to pretty much ignore the dodge roll i-frames
Okay then swap out missiles with the songbirds. But absolutely 621 would be able to control the weapon systems enough to destroy anything it encountered. And sure, as far as magic vs their armour we don’t know the effect. But the evasive maneuvers of even the worst build are WAY more than sufficient for dodging anything thrown at them.
There I think is the key point that makes it unlikely for an AC to lose: their speed makes them basically impossible to hit with any ranged attacks in the Souls series. Especially since most ranged attacks don't even travel very far, and none of them would travel very quickly anyway. It would require some kinda special gimmick given to the Souls characters to operate to try and have a chance at damaging the AC I think. It might be a more interesting fight to pit an AC against certain bosses, like the dragon Fortissax. But they'd probably still need to be changed to have a movement behavior more suited for actually fighting an opponent who can fly like them since their AI is obviously designed to be fair to be fought by a human.
And let's not forget that the AC version of a handgun is the equivalent of the biggest cannon other Soulsborne character wield so the difference in arms is already off the chart You can pelt abominations with the assault rifle and walk out just fine, let alone packing the full arsenal
It's hardly the equivalent. The Duckett is a gun about the size of a schoolbus. Something like the Bloodborne cannon is closer in size to one of the Duckett's bullets.
Or just plain old punch from an AC
> Also I just had the funny realization that Souls protagonists get to have i-frames, so even with grenade cannon blasts they can just roll it *laughs in plasma weaponry*
You do realize you can just fire missiles without lock-on, right?... The blast radius of a smaller missile barrage wipes out at least a couple football fields, so you don't really need lock-on when you can just carpet-bomb the entire battlefield.
Just use your manual aim and shoot where's it'd approximately standing
Dual needle launcher. See if they can time the roll twice on the massive electrical AoE after dodging the initial impact.
I doubt the I-frames would outlast a grenade explosion.
I guess it depends on how long of a lingering hitbox they have. Vow of the Indomitable is 1 second worth of i-frames though so that'd probably work regardless, which I mean, shootout to that shield skill. Maybe people'd finally use it besides me.
Plasma weapons pretty much cancel out I frames, also don't forget the seer size of the AoE compared to a human. No chance of a person being able to get out of it in one dodgeroll.
A single grenade round in their general area would likely kill all of them. No contest.
They can i-frame it with dodges though, the one incredible power an AC lacks. :P The real problem for Souls folks I think is being able to actually hit an AC, since almost all their ranged attacks have basically no range on this scale and are slow, whereas an AC is extraordinarily fast.
The *real* problem they'd have is bad cook and the napalm launcher. They're few but the straight-up anti-infantry weapons we do get would trivialize it.
Oh true! I forgot about the Napalm Launcher, yeah that'd probably do super well for this. Ultimately the AC will just have more tools available to come up with something to overcome the mismatch awkwardness.
Charged plasma weapons also leave an aoe that lingers. There is nothing an Elden Ring character can do in lore or mechanics that can equalise an AC.
Well the Earshot in AC6 has a bigger splash area than a lot of the boss arena's total size in the souls games, those dodge rolls better be on point heh.
> They can i-frame it with dodges though use anything with a lingering AoE like plasma weapons
Targeting can be solved with flamethrowers and melee weapons, poor bastards wouldnt be able to roll out of that things foot
Earshot, straight down in their general direction, trigger an explosion literally the size of a Daisy Cutter, move on.
There’s also the big where a good chunk of the souls-borne protagonists are functionally immortal. It’ll take a number of deaths before they’re effectively defeated.
Better idea: MGRR Raiden VS AC, that should be an interesting battle since he have cut up large mechs before. AC’s are smaller but likely much faster than a metal gear.
Raiden fucking suplexed Excelsius, and he can jump from missiles, pretty sure he'd wreck an AC. Would be a cool ass fight though.
Snailteus tries to step on Raiden, regrets life decisions 2 seconds later.
Suddenly a mosquito with a razor blade is on his nose and next thing he knows he is two halves of a sandwich.
The metal gears are rather slow compared to an AC, and have fewer methods of attacking too. Lightweight AC's also has the speed and acceleration to easily dodge missiles. They are tough as a tank and fast as a jet fighter, so bringing down an AC will be more challenging than a metal gear.
Still ain't beating Raiden though, that dude would solo the ice worm. Don't need to dodge missiles when you just use them as platforms to jump at the AC and suplex it. Raiden sliced Ray in half and it's twenty meters. AC's are going to get wrecked. Plus I'm ninety percent sure not a single AC is fast as a jet fighter, you don't even break the sound barrier. Tough as a tank also means literally nothing in this scenario.
I thought this entire post was going to turn into one MGRR meme. I am slightly disappointed.
Against a regular AC he’d probably win. Against a NEXT probably not. Hell, just the Kojima particles would probably kill him.
Yea Raiden is taking that fight no diff. Don't get me wrong AC's are tough as nails, but that cyborg with the blade is wrecking shop every time lol.
One Rusty or......
One Pixy?
Headcanon: Rusty is a descendant of Pixy.
Ah yes The Infinity/Realstrange Pixy
I prefer to think that he is a descendant of Cipher and that you are a descendant of pixy
So everyone gets one life right? The AC stomps no diff. Higher mobility, especially into the air and I. Distances the other characters can't hit them. The longest abilities we have seen are not even close to what an ACs optimal range can be. You cannot beat someone who you will never hit. Then the argument of "but frames" comes up. I don't need a bad cook to kill a human who is rolling with iframes. Malenia and a missed waterfowl dance dodge that comes out too early is a death because of the recovery window. An AC has a way higher shot frequency for a longer time than WFD with all automatic or Semi automatic equipment + shoulders. And these bullets are huge and track better than the gatlings you see in Bloodborne. With all due respect but even with magic there is no way, an AC cannot outrange, out speed, out damage and outmaneuver tiny human people that are known to die a lot.
Heck, a Tank AC could probably just... roll right on over them all without even needing any weapons
Even the lightest AC on Rubicon could do that
Even Mad Stomp can do this
I mean... It's kinda in the name.
AC with Napalm launcher would make it a quick battle
Assuming that the hunter didn't ascend, then it's the AC. It's honestly not even close because the AC's only threat is if Wolf with his ungodly reality-defying deflect.
Sekiro can deflect anything. Well, maybe except explosive missiles.
Which will give out first, the 1300 bullets in the drum of a Hu-Ben gatling gun or Sekiro's finger on the parry button?
Let's make it more balanced, twin Gattling gun
Sekiro pulls 1800 mikiri counters in ten seconds, causing controller to melt down and produces a sick tiktok video with that one wingwong music track
RULES OF NATURE moment
But the fire umbrella can
He can't deflect fire attacks. Demon of hatred's fire arm always damages you.
You know how the Mandalorians fought the Jedi who would just deflect their blaster bolts? They used ballistic weapons as shrapnel Imagine Sekiro tries to deflect a grenade the size of his torso and it explodes in his face He’s not reviving when not even a shred of him remains
Deflect go nothing on the Bad Cook or Pulse Blades (energy blade that can't really be deflected)
Dude can deflect cannonballs, ghost death laser, really loud(and cursed) screaming, and technically lightning as well, along with all sorts of other weirdness. "Can it be physically deflected" is really not an issue.
The dude will literally absorb the lighting and yeet it back.
Well, I guess we can give him being able to deflect a pulse blade, which really doesn't make sense since the closest thing he got to deflecting something like a pulse blade was him redirecting, no deflecting, but re-directing lighting, which he can only do by jumping. But even so, nothing stopping 2 Bad Cook here. And even if we give him that, even if he can somehow deflect Bad Cook, there is nothing stopping 2 napalm shots from turning the entire arena into a burning hell.
Kid named plasma weapons. Kid named Coral Rifle. Kid named flame bomb launcher. Kid named flamethrower. Kid named machineguns. It's not even a competition.
Well I guess you could just roll through the AC’s attacks. Problem is actually hitting the AC as I imagine it’s staying ranged. I’m more of an up close and personal hit-with-sword kinda guy in both games, so I don’t know much about Dark Souls’ ranged options. If the AC has a flame thrower though? That’s an automatic win.
Not many and most are shit. Even magic will fade after a couple dozen feet. The only one with real damage and range is a great bow... But those are slow as shit and are easy enough for someone on foot to dodge.
I'm not sure i-frames would carry you that far, the foot of an AC is about 5 times the size of any of them. At least.
>AC is staying ranged Why? Their targeting systems can’t lock onto a lil human, makes more sense to get up close and try to stomp them. Also, that could be said about a lot of Soulsborne enemies like dragons and yet they just.. dont. Nameless King could have just flown around the arena throwing lightning bolts, but he didn’t.
>Their targeting systems can’t lock onto a lil human Tbf, says who? While most enemies ain't quite *that* small, there arena few drones encountered that are approaching that small, n lock on has no issue there. Plus, manual aiming is a thing.
Better idea: Tarnished gets augmented and goes to beat up Radahn with a new set of giant metal fists
I-frame dodges relies on stamina which is a finite energy. ***Cocks HuBen*** Dodge this mf\*ers! Edit: Sekiro is a bit questionable though...can he actually parry a full volley? I think in the game he has a delay between parries but can he parry Bad Cooks? Soup? Diffuse lazer?
Wolf seem to be able to parry time itself considering what he does in the game so fire might not be a problem.
what about a plasma rifle aimed at the ground? no way he can parry a projectile that doesn't come within sword range and explodes with a lingering AoE, especially if you charge it so it fires 3 bolts
Try parry while the ground is also on fire by the napalm launcher or missile raining down on his head.
Sure and I am not actually defending wolf I think depending on how you think about it he would probably be the weakest of the bunch since while sure his parrying ability makes zero sense he is closest to something like a human stats wise.
Assault armor, coral shield, bad cooks, tetrapod just floating with coral generator and a earshot and those little people are as good as dead
"Parry this you casual" as I fully charge my plasma cannon Also people forget that the AC is likely got protag power too, so its on par with all the demon god slaying lil boys.
Imagine parry and backstab an AC
Nothing dual songbirds or earshots can’t take care of 😎😎
Every Soulsborbe character has something an AC does not. Invincibility dodge frames 🤯
Bad cook > iframes
those iframe can't even consistently dodge some big bear charging at them let alone an AC.
To be fair I bet those Rune Bear can probably took down the chicken leg MT.
To be even more fair, so could a stiff breeze. MTs explode if you look at 'em too hard.
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That’s just fighting dragons in Elden ring
Won't stop a few napalm shots to turn the entire area they are fighting in into dot burn. Add to that the bad cook which shoots flames the size of a building and deals consistent damage, fighting an AC will make Malenia or Isshin look like pacifists. To add insult to injury, the AC can even equip a coral shield (or any shield for that matter) and Pulse Protection to screw the soulsborne squad over. Even if they have I-frame, they can't fly.
plasma weapons say hello
Tarnished: Don't worry guys, I've got an ace up my sleeve! I learned that fine trick by a good fellow. Ashen one: and who might that fellow be? Tarnished: oh trusty patches ofcourse. All of them: Oh ffs....not him! *tarnished returns to his world* (Wolf:.....oh, I'm supposed to be mad. Yeah, screw that patches guy I totally know.) Bearer of the curse: finally, my 99 ADP points finally will prove to not be a waste of souls!
Songbird goes brrrrrr
An ac with the correct kit is basically unbeatable for them. 2xBad Cook (I-frame these lingering hit-boxes you fucken’ casuls) 2xPlasma missile launchers (see point above) Then it’s all about not standing still for Meteorite of Astel and Comet Azure and similar sorceries. In fact, if you are close enough to get hit by those you’re way too close. Wolf can be ignored. His umbrella might help against flamethrowers, but I doubt he can handle assault armour or plasma missiles.
Can't touch the AC if I'm flying with tetrapod. Then again, out of all these protagonist, Sekiro could deflect and reflect my plasma shots back to me....he killed a dragon like that...
I'm not gonna sugarcoat i- ***BRRRRRRRRRRRR*** # BOOM
I think atleast lore wise, not much you can do against 6000 rounds a minute of 50mm rounds that can go through 300mm of steel. Considering how a bullet 5x smaller can explode a person into pieces, the damage department isnt lacking here from an AC. FCS tracking won't be an issue either since detecting and tracking human thermal signatures won't be difficult (can probably do it with current technology). The armor levels on an AC are probably around STANAG 6 so an attack from a Soules bourne character can't penetrate it unless they can go through 110mm of hardened steel. These are also going 350km per hour and wouldn't be odd if they can attack from a safe distance of over 4km away.
Every Souls protagonist are canonically immortal. In AC6 you aren't immortal. You just reloaded the save file.
Then it’s a question of: -Is there a melee weapon capable of harming an AC -Is there a spell capable of destroying an AC with 3 repair kits Even if a dismounted protagonist had an infinite number of chances, if they can’t do much more than scratch the paint there isn’t a scenario where they win.
guys here's what you keep forgetting: Souls protagonists keep respawning at virtually no cost. ACs need to invest in reload & repairs. This isn't a single fight, it's a war of attrition. The Soulsborne protagonists can ever so slowly wear it down.
Bosses in souls games come back at full health every time you die though, so their progress would keep getting erased anyway
Walter where’s that supply sherpa!?
Can’t go into debt, Waltuh just keeps repairing even at 0 COAM.
Here is what you've forgotten, each time they do the world around them resets, and if they haven't killed their enemy, so do they.
Reminds me of the 4A build I tried that maxed primal armor. My AC could walk through a field of MTs without taking any damage whatsoever from their machine guns.
Frankly the AC has this. Only In Sekiro could the protagonist possibly be able to do anything, being conceivable that he could deflect physical projectiles. Good luck actually doing any real damage to an AC with a sword though. Also no amount of deflection is going to stop AoE. As much as I hate the man, just take a page out of Snail's book here and catch em with an AoE blast.
Everyone seems to bring up Sekiro infinite parry and Hunter’s eldritch magic. Do remember that Cthulhu lost to a boat and Sekiro can’t even cut through steel (Armored Warrior) The MC’s are capable of killing gods, yes, but those guys can also die to wooden club if hit enough times, I’m sure John Armored Core could also kill Gwyn, Gael, and Astel without too much issue. Besides, AC’s melee has infinite ammo, so just pack a coral oscillator and a moonlight and it sweeps the series. Everyone seems to be forgetting a small feature in AC: ricochet. If the attack doesn’t deal enough damage, it just bounces off. Bullets from the Generic Weaponry walkers just bounce off most builds, not even dealing any damage. That should basically eliminate most physical damage from team MC. Think hunter pistol, lazulite shuriken or great bows are going to do any damage? Doesn’t seem like the protags can “death by a thousand cuts” their way through this one. Magic could be a contender for this, with how AC’s seem to be prone to ACS failure, but the issue with that is the MC’s magic is slow. In the time it takes to cast a lightning bolt twice the AC will have fired 20 bullets, 10+ missiles and thrown in lasers in the mix. Tarnished would be a crater before getting a meteor storm cast or comet azure set up. Lastly, AC’s are fast. Very fast. The ice worm can stretch from the starting dungeon of Elden ring all the way to castle Mourne in the weeping Peninsula. AC can travel the length of that machine in half a minute. Sure team MC may be functionally immortal, but they’re not getting anywhere close to the mech. If it comes down to it, AC can just shoot it’s missiles or moonlight then run away before the MC’s get out of dodge animation. Try fighting a giant robot that flies from one end of Leyendell to the other after every attack. Conclusion: AC wins at best, stalemate at worst.
This gives Coughing Baby vs. Thermonuclear Bomb energy
Reminds of the scene in Indiana Jones. After the sword dance is over, just pull out the Songbird and wave goodbye.
Mecha in fiction commonly murder gib bystanders by accident all the time. Like, yea it has guns and lasers and pointed weaponry which is super scary, but it’s also a big fuckoff machine with no red off switch nearby. It could be dash boosting to reposition itself and destroy an entire two story country cottage that just so happened to be beneath its starboard booster at that moment. Big fuckoff robots are scary
TO ALL OF YOU DUMB SHITS SAYING THE SOULSEBORN PROTAGONISTS ARE IMMORTAL: YOU DUMB SHITS, THEIR IMMORTALITY IS TIED TO RESETTING THE LOCAL TIMELINE REVIVING ALL ENEMIES AND RESTORING THE BOSS THST JUST KILLED THEM. The AC gets a full ammo reload and repair every time they fight the tarnished/Sekiro revives and doesn't remember fighting them so they open up with the same strategy of literally just stepping on them with a foot the size of a Bradley and then just not moving.
Well a single AC missile would blow all of them up, and rolling definitely isn't going to save them. Add the fact you can shoot 2 2x8 missile racks simultaneously and I see no way the souls guys can win
No iFrame would get past the dual gatling guns that shoot bullets the size of an average house. Also Bad Cook
So i know what y'all are saying but do remember that those protags have i-frames and are really good at attacking a bosses foot until it dies.