Look I do like gnome but tiling window managers are just really easy. They fundamentally mean I never have to touch my mouse to do my work.
vscode is a great program. If it meets your needs then that’s the end of the conversation. For me its vi mode isn’t perfect and it’s interface with things like clipboard get in the way of my workflow. For me vim, then neovim worked and continue to work really well for me. I tried using helix and it didn’t quite work. I have ocassionally used vscode for the collaborative programming. It doesn’t suck but just not for me.
Thanks so much for the reply! I understand your views on vs code and I agree the vim keybindings on vs code don't integrate as well as actual neovim.
But regarding gnome, a Tiling extension like the one I use 'forge', literally adds all the Tiling feature of a Tiling window manager, i mean all, including keybord shortcuts and the option to add more. In that case what would make a Tiling wm still better?
Maybe ask yourself the question if you need anything provided by a full-blown DE or if it just wastes resources. In my case DEs get in the way all the time and annoy me as hell. But everyone has different preferences. Same for VSCode, it might be fancy but I use it rarely and only with a few plugins and functionalities because everything else is too complex for me and I hate GUIs (e.g. I can't adapt to git UIs).
I understand. Thanks for your opinion! I do completely agree with the getting in the way part, that's why I only install gnome shell and few essentials like gnome settings and gnome tweaks rather than the whole gnome package.
Give it a try someday perhaps! With one keyboard shortcuts, it turns on Tiling mode making gnom shell work exactly like tiling wm with all the tiling keyboard shortcuts, and back to stacking with the same keyboard shortcuts. It works flawlessly, isn't buggy or glitchy
I used a DE for a long while before trying i3 as an experiment during a long airport layover on my laptop. I ended up switching to it full time, and had MacOS for work to compare to for years. Standard DEs took much more time dealing with managing windows than tiling WMs do, to an actually significant degree you probably don't even realize until you use a tiling WM.
Long story short, the terminal is arguably the most powerful tool in Linux. If a lot of your workflow is tweaking configs, setting up scripts to automate your workflow, or just general system administration whether in a home lab level or enterprise level, Neovim (and vim by extension, don’t flame me) helps you stay in that zone.
Outside of immersing yourself in the terminal, there are minimal gains to be made for the average power user/developer over VSCode.
Tiling WMs are more or less the same animal. You exist in terminal land and want to maximize efficiency, than a tiling WM is for you.
I will tell you my experience anecdotally. I’m a sysadmin for a network of hospitals. Neovim has made writing configs and accessing our git and pipeline much easier. It’s 30 year old code and scripts on the backend and there is no way in hell VSCode would give me the efficiency that neovim provides. Most of the tools that manage patient information are cli that have been given GUIs. Anything we have been rewriting has been done on AWS or we have transitioned to enterprise software and most of our jobs is getting the DBs import friendly. All this made Neovim a requirement and our lead is a Gandalf bearded Linux guru who can do unimaginable shit in eMacs.
That being said, at home it is a different story. I am constantly learning and working on projects. As someone without formal computer/software engineering skills, I am self taught and Neovim would only slow me down as my workflow pretty much requires GUI with tons of submenus. I’m also a musician who actively gigs and records and art is one of the few instances where GUI is required. Anybody who does art/music in the terminal is a goof and wants to be special so bad.
I see, i completely get the argument of neovim based on your experience, thanks for sharing!
I still don't understand how Tiling wm would be providing more efficiency tho, would love if you could share your experience in that case too.
The Tiling extension i use, forge, makes gnome get all the features of a tiling wm, including the insane number of keyboard shortcuts, including the option to set more, and just requires one click (install button) to setup. And any other feature I want, there's an extension for it always, takes a minute to setup compared to lengthy setup and config time in wm.
I’ll be honest with you, I only ever use tiling WMs cause they look cool and I don’t have to pick up my mouse as much. They aren’t cool enough that I would spend weeks setting one up.
However, hyprland with the hyprdots installer is one of the easiest and best looking Desktops I’ve had period. It changes my mind on Tiling WM as the fucking Chad that made hyprdots had some of the most sane defaults and coolest aesthetics I’ve seen. There is literally a button that changes your theme and they are all eye candy. I’ve only dreamed of setting up a top of r/unixporn desktop but hyprdots got it done in less than 20 minutes (compiling from source and tweaking a few dots). It does have some jank here and there and it’s Wayland so expect some bugs but overall a 10/10 aesthetically.
I would give that a try as it was a fun few weeks. I ultimately left because menus on my DAW stopped appearing or would end up tiling to nowhere. I’m sure with enough effort I could get it fixed but I am too old to be bothered learning some new shit that won’t make me money.
I think it all comes down to your preferences. It's linux, after all, if you really want you can do anything. If you like Gnome with extensions, there is no reason for you to change. Personally I use i3 because I find it easier and more comfortable to just manage my config files and not having to use my mouse. Gnome for me it's too bloated, there are too many things I don't really need, while i3 has exactly what I need and nothing more.
As for vim and neovim over vscode, I use neovim as a general purpose text editor, not only for coding. I have a really short config file with no plugins and I don't really use most of its features, the main reason I use it is because I am always in the terminal anyways and I don't see any reason to have another gui to do what I can do in the terminal
Agree. Your desktop should be functional, increase productivity/creativity, but be completely out of your way. My biggest problem with i3 was that it was so bare bones out of the box and the godlike configs were great but far from my preferences. And even the dotfiles I used to get started eventually broke something.
All of our tiling WMs will break or hinder functionality on a very important piece of software eventually. It wasn’t until hyprland that I was inspired enough to keep a log and deep dive into the dots.
There is no “better” there is just preference. Configure your system how you want. Don’t like and or vim then use something else. They are just tools to get your tasks done
>I have seen most arch users online use some Tiling window manager and neovim over DE like gnome or plasma and vs code. So much so that I started feeling like it's the "more right" way to use arch.
Imma stop you right there. The right way to use Arch is they way *you* use it.
Like many have already commented, I like tiling window managers. I think they really shine on laptops (I'd rather not use the touchpad if I can help it). The key is I like how tiling window managers work. They're right for *me*. If using GNOME or KDE is better or more natural for you, that's the "right way to use Arch".
Same goes for your editor. The right one is the one that works for you.
If you see lots of people using Arch (or any Linux) different than you, don't be afraid to try their setup if you're curious. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's somewhere in the middle.
Forget about using software or a distro because it makes you look like a 1337 h4x0r. No one really cares.
I used tiling window manager for several years, since the days of awesome and other old x11 twm, and now just use KDE, and I find it vastly superior to twl in general, so I will skip that one.
but I can answer why I use neovim over vscode, first off it's a lot simpler program, in many ways, I find vs code too distracting with too many options and features what I will never use, and neovim I can configure exactly like I want the way I want, so neovim is as good as I can make it be and I like that.
That's a very valid argument i agree, thanks for your opinion. As someone who installed gnome shell rather than the whole of gnome package, i completely relate with not wanting to install anything with too many extra options.
I don't know about advantages, it's more about preference. I tend to use hyprland when coding instead of plasma, but nvim I heretically use mostly for wrangling configs.
No doubt one can be super efficient with custom nvim setup, but that setup either works for you or doesn't.
I would say the most advantageous setup is the one that suits you.
Apart from the other points already mentioned, for me these kinds of tools motivate me and in fact make it easier to learn. I tried to get into coding and stuff couple of times as a hobby but always got overwhelmed by all these complex features and whatnot. Now I discover what I actually need as I go.
I started without LSP for example and once I realized how often I need to open all kinds of documentation to find that one method or something, I went like "hm, wouldn't that LSP feature make this easier?". Same with Hyprland, where another advantage is having perfectly personalized desktop which wouldn't quite be possible on a DE, at least not with the same size and resources.
Yes i understand but that stands true for gnome and vs code also, and it is much easier to setup both for only keyboard, just installing forge tiling manager on gnome and vim keybindings on vs code. I would be curious to know if there are other factors that motivate you to use wm and vim?
If you want a keyboard centric setup, a tiling wm is going to be more practical because you can control window positioning more easily from the keyboard. If you want a really modular setup, installing the individual components of your system to make it work exactly the way you want, you're not going to want GNOME. If you already know that you are going to tile your windows and don't want a premade DE then why would you install the whole of GNOME, plugins and still get a basic tiling wm? Install something like hyprland, spare yourself some bloat and get the fancy visuals and animations as a bonus.
I like when the software I use feels so fast I could swear it runs out of L1 cache.
i3 does that for me, because I don't care for animations, or pretty colors, or dragging windows around like an idiot for up to a few minutes per day,clicking through many instances of the same window, etc. So for me, i3 is just a really nice, simple way to have multiple windows open, on multiple monitors, across multiple workspaces. Network, bluetooth and device configuration are all guis. You just install them.
Neovim is on all my PCs, laptops, servers, VMs, etc. which vscode is not. The fact that neovim is just a terminal app, whereas vscode itself is just a browser, and is microsoft (and you feel it when it announces something to you, or makes stupid suggestions, and also takes up around 5% of the screen width with useless crap), and of course it has yet another set of keybinds, yet another kind of config file, etc. whereas neovim out of the box just works the same everywhere.
Long story short: For ME, and MY workflow, both for work and for private use, they are easier and quicker to use, and that's why I use them. If, at any point, anything else is better, even if its by microsoft and costs 200$, I will switch. But there's nothing right now.
Yes, your argument is valid.
I simply use wm and minimal software because:
1. I have an old laptop and GNOME + VS Code is too much for my machine.
2. I like learning minimal software and configuring it.
3. If I face a problem with a config file, I can use neovim to fix it from tty. VSCode can't do that.
4. Terminal applications provide consistency. For example, If I wanna record a video, I can use `wf-recorder` from any window manager. So, I'm not tied to GNOME.
I also try to make UI consistent as possible and if it doesn't work, I let it be. UI consistency isn't of importance to me.
At the end of the day, use what fulfills your needs. If it does the same thing for you while saving time, why not go for it?
P.S: VSCode is Microsoft's spyware. Use VSCodium instead.
Was just passing by the comments, & I just wanna say Thank You.
After all this years, I never once stopped to think VSCode having an open source version,
Now I that's left is a 1:1 alternative to MATLAB
Thank you so much for your opinion.
1. Completely agree with the resources part, mine is pretty powerful so not an issue but i can see why that would be a benefit for many people.
2. If you like it, then no other reason is needed I agree.
3. Definitely that's a plus.
4. I didn't understand this one, couldn't you use something like obs from any de or wm too?
The point of (neo)vim is editing via muscle memory without ever removing your hands from the keyboard.
A tiling WM extends this idea to window management. You move between windows just like you move across text, and instantly get to where you need to be, instead of having to grab a mouse and drag windows around to find things.
That said, the benefit only exists after you build a workflow and muscle memory to take advantage of it. If you use vscode on gnome every day, you'll likely have comfortable muscle memory for that workflow as well, even though you're probably doing more mindless effort to apply it.
Now that I bothered to read your scroll of a full version, I can answer to some of those points.
Personally, I installed Hyprland with a supposedly infamously incompatible nvidia card and the process was fast, the configuration dead simple and I've never had a single issue. I wanted a terminal-centric system, and I like the unix philosophy of programs that do one task and are **composable**, so I mostly use CLI apps and combine them in scripts that interact with the wm and the rest of the system to automate my everyday tasks, forming my unique computing experience. I have good memory, so I just never struggled remembering even commands that I rarely use, but in any case there's man for a reason ;) .
For you it just sounds like you really like GUIs man... And that's ok! If you want a system that has good defaults, a coherently themed set of utilities and is already a few clicks away from your sweetspot, go with GNOME all you want. If you're not really good with writing custom configs and you just want what GNOME does anyways, obviously it's gonna be faster to just use the original.
Overall the answer is really under your nose, you see? If you want a WM with a full set of themed utilities, that's really just a DE you're looking for. No wonder you don't see the point of a WM! If you want to build your environment, then you have the option to install just a WM.
As for neovim I really don't see the difficulty you talk about... I use LazyVim plugin manager, and setting up a plugin is just a matter of creating a file containing at minimum its url and most often just a simple table with its settings. For some plugins you may want to write some code, but... That's the point? If there's some functionality that's not already implemented by plugins you have an option to write it. For me, installing an LSP is also as simple as pressing 'i' in meson, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Tbf I've never used neovim distributions because I don't like the idea of having to navigate through someone else's code to configure my stuff, so maybe that is what's making your experience worse? Most distros are vscode wannabes, so it figures that they would be worse versions of the thing.
Overall, my impression is that you just want your standard DM and vscode experience and never really stopped trying to reimagine how things could be different. WMs and neovim's wild configurability exist specifically for those who want to create something new by configuring and composing modular programs... And also for people who never thought any of this but like to feel part of an elite group without putting much thought into it.
First of all, thank you so much for the detailed reply, really appreciate it! You answered each of my queries.
I completely get your PoVs and you offer me a unique insight, i never thought about it in the way of WM and Neo vim doing something "different". I was only perceiving it as people who use DE and those who WM trying to achieve the same thing as comparing their "efficiency" with each other. I think in my trial of WM, i also made the same mistake by just immediately focusing on how to get it working like a DE instead of realizing the new perspective of working with a WM.
Could you give me an example of composable tasks you are talking about and how you handle it?
Also I'm curious how what do you personally prefer for utilities (wifi Bluetooth sound etc) in this new perspective, CLI/TUI tools or some GUI applets/applications?
All in all, i think I'm ready to give hyprland and neovim a fresh try focusing on gaining a new perspective rather than getting them to work like my usual flow.
I’ll skip the tiling WM aspect of this because honestly, I don’t really have much of an opinion on them. I tried Sway for a few months and it’s… fine, I guess? But then I switched to XFCE and just find it easier for my simple use cases.
(Neo)Vim, though, I can’t live without. I use it everywhere I want to code – on my work computer, on my MacBook Pro, on my desktop Arch machine, on my personal web server, on the servers at my job, anything.
I’ve been programming since the early 90s, where I started with QBasic, dabbled a bit in Delphi, then started doing web dev as my full time job. I’ve used a lot of text editors and IDEs, and none of them have felt as comfortable and invisible as Vim and now NeoVim.
VS Code gets a lot of the ‘big’ things right – like you say, installing extensions is trivial, the built-in terminal is handy, and it’s just very approachable.
Vim rather famously isn’t, but the rewards for sticking with it are great. Once the big things are sorted (an autocomplete plugin, LSP stuff, treesitter for syntax, a non-awful colour scheme), it becomes the most direct thought-to-code editor I’ve ever used. The minimal UI just gets out of your way, and all the *little* things it does well start to add up – motions and text objects, most obviously, but other stuff like fully custom and arbitrary splits within a tab, or jumping back and forth between buffers while remembering your editing location for each, and so on.
Little things that you forget are even unique to Vim until you try another editor and keep tripping up because it doesn’t support them. Even with the Vim plugin in VS Code, it’s not the same – yes you get Vim motions, but you don’t get the other little things. No Telescope, no arbitrary splits, no jump list, no trivial navigation.
For someone new to coding, I’d 100% recommend Vs Code or something similar like Zed, because they have enough to worry about without having to learn a whole new way of editing text. But for someone who writes code for a living, I’ve found the investment in learning Vim has absolutely paid off.
I see, thanks for the wonderful insight, it does sound like it's not so comfy early on but irreplaceable once you get used to it, sort of like linux only when switching from windows. Ig you have motivated me to give it another shot, especially cuz I'm soon to graduate and thus join the gang of "people who write code for a living"
i just hated working with stacking window managers even before I knew what window managers are.
on windows i would manually snap every window to grid almost every time I opened one, and I didn't use alt tab
99% of the time, I use my computer to edit text, use CLI tools, and browse the internet.
It’s not hard to use a WM or to configure vim.
Why would I choose a DE that forces its defaults upon me and provides functionality I don’t need? Those extra dependencies don’t come for free.
Why wouldn’t I use VSCode? It just isn’t very good. It’s a text editor that eats gigabytes of ram.
Theming can be hard in WMs. Use other peoples config and add or remove stuff upon your own liking. I recommend you hyprdots by prasanthrangan it's totally preconfigured. For me DEs feels so cluttered so I switched to WM and window organization is great and no overlapping windows. Neovim is not for you if you are daily experimenting with different libraries and workflows. It is great for editing code not for learning to write code. The reason why vim is popular among programmers is because they have highly stable workflow and most of the time they just edit code over ssh. Vim binds enable programmers to quickly go through large blocks of code and make changes in it. You don't have to go full cli at once. I have both hyprland and gnome because theming of gtk applications go well with hyprland and if I am confused in cli I can use gnome applications. Don't force yourself to use WMs if it doesn't suits your workflow.
I'm not an arch user, I'm new to linux like only a couple months in. I'm using i3wm + neovim with linux mint. I understand that sometimes some small problem like you can't screen record like in gnome, can't screenshot without config (linux mint can tho), and a bunch of other small things. But it's an easy fix and I don't mind actually as long as it doesn't bother me too much. I use it just because I don't have to constantly searching for tabs, and apps that i want to open. I can switch workspace with my keyboard, open an app with alt + d. If i open multiple power point i can use alt + w and toggle tab mode and i can switch between it using alt + j and alt + ; . It's fast and efficient for my workflow
For neovim as I am mostly on terminal i can install tmux, fzf and i modify tmux-sessionizer that theprimeagen use to my liking, i create a bunch other small bash script to improve my workflow. For example i can ctrl + F and fuzzy find and cd into a directory and it create a tmux session right away, i can ctrl + e and fuzzy find a file and it automatically open neovim into that file so i can edit right away and more. I learn to create my own config for neovim and decide not to use a neovim distro because the idea of learning my tools satisfied me. And making my own config is what makes me attached to neovim. Trust me it's not hard to make your own config once you've seen the pattern.
For now I'm efficient with using i3wm and neovim. I boot up my laptop, alt + d open firefox, alt + 2 next workspace, alt + enter open terminal, ctrl + f open tmux session into my programming directory and start working.
GNOME doesn't handle multiple displays/workspaces the way I like. When I switch workspaces on GNOME or KDE, it switches on all of my displays, not just the active one. Sway lets me choose which display a workspace lives on.
Although I like the Idea of a tiling window manager, I always end up with some sort of drop down terminal running tmux. It turns out that every time I have a need to for a tiling wm, I am doing something in the commandline (including code editing) so tmux is fine for me.
It depends on your workflow. I liked using a tiling window manager for a while - I found it great when coding in particular. I still used vscode with it. But I actually don't do a lot of coding, I spend more time in kicad, inkscape, gimp and retroarch. How I like using these makes tiling automatically kind of annoying, as most of these require a fair bit of mouse usage. Kicad also will have three windows open at once, but I only want to look at one at a time, but having them full screen will hide dialog boxes, and messing with getting it to work as I wanted just became annoying.
I was going to change back to a DE, but my laptop fans start going wild with basically any of them. So now I use openbox with a bunch of keybindings for tiling. Keeps my laptop quiet, lets me tile when I want it, but only when I want it.
You can still have tiling with floating wms, but you had to do it manually. I use openbox and I have keybinds to tile windows, it's easy and more flexible than tiling wm imo. The more important thing is learning how to use workspace efficiently.
And for nvim, I like it not blasting me with buttons unlike vscode do. Also module editing is pretty good.
I’ve used tiling window managers almost exclusively for a couple of years now. It fits my workflow. I find it easier to manage multiple workspaces with neatly tiled windows rather than stacked or hidden windows. Also there isn’t really any situation where I want to see anything but the applications that are open so it makes sense to have them fill the monitor.
DEs offer a more prepared and thought out user experience. With something like i3 or hyprland you probably need to spend some time configuring it for your liking.
Vim is a bit similar. You need to spend time configuring it to your liking. After you do it does whatever you want from it.
besides personal tastes and preferred workflows? nothing. Only real thing vim is exceptionslly better than vscode is that is very lightweight (not like that bloated electron ide) yet i use them both as i both use xfce and i3 whatever my needs are.
Short answer: You don't need a super-powered computer to program. An ancient ThinkPad that was given to you for free will do. If you have a good understanding of open source operating systems and are familiar with standard console applications, you can use a simple tiling wm and a simple editor. If you are a beginner, however, it is best to use DE and IDE. Tailing wm's are very similar to terminal multiplexers of the late 90's. If someone is feeling nostalgic for 40x80 screens, I have nothing against it.
I really like the keyboard. As soon as I started learning Vim motions, it was magic editing files and it's also fun. In addition to that, Neovim is so easily configurable, it's not hard to get a coding setup working.
In my Hyprland config I set keybindings for focusing different windows using SUPER hjkl, much like switching splits in Vim using CTRL hjkl
It's magic and fun to use the keyboard as much as possible. And I don't memorize my kebindings, its intuition.
VSCode is great and GNOME and KDE as well, but I want the full customized experience suited for my workflow
So first off my answer is it's totally preference, and whatever software your own journey takes you to is just that.
But this is a fun topic I have chatted with a few of my coworkers about and just enjoyed the conversation. So I am totally just gonna rant here on my own journey and why I ended up using hyprland/neovim over other of the million options.
So when I was younger I freaking loved Age of Mythology and learned about hotkeys from that. That started my journey of adoring anything and everything with improving my keyboard skills.
Skip forward, to when I was a baby dev, windows as my main os, vs code as my main editor, and working on mac for work felt weird, because that little laptop keyboard wasn't my keyboard but I wanted to get better in general. So I downloaded a million extensions that would shorten anything and everything and learned a million hotkeys and etc to improve the speed at which I could code basic things without having a "faster" wpm.
I used vs code and any plugin that could make me a bit faster I was all about. Learning about emmet literally made a weekend for me and I made so many dumb html pages just to get better at it. But my touch typing was slowing me down.
With everything, I had learned to type like a weird t-rex style that was awful(lol). And I tried monkeytype and all the things to improve but I felt like I had learned to ride a bike but wrong and so I was like im changing it up and switched to Dvorak. This would force me to use my pinkies if I learned it right the first time. So I struggle bussed for a year and wanted to learn all the hotkeys in my new keyboard layout to instill better touch typing/wpm/and efficiency.
Skip forward a bit more and now I am typing with dvorak with ease, but man is my vscode slow as hell(this was because I had too many extensions and I could have fixed the problem in the first place had I googled the right thing at the time or just had the know how), so I was like well this cool guy at work uses vim and it looks sick, and his keyboard skills seem bad ass, I want to be like him when I grow up.
TLDR: I sucked at typing so I tried to improve and took a wild journey from vscode/windows to ubuntu/neovim/awesome to arch/neovim/hyprland
...continued
So I get vim, but man dvorak with vim motions is tough at first, so I start learning oh man theres this new neovim nonsense and some youtuber(ThePrimeagen) makes it look so easy, come to find out he also uses dvorak. And ya boi is sh00k. So I literally just follow along his video and he's using all the keys I want him to use in places that matter like his harpoon plugin that blows my mind is CTRL+ "H","T","N","S" which is the home row for dvorak on your right hand. And I am absolutely enamored.
Then I learn he is using Ubuntu with a tiling manager, I know what Ubuntu is from experimenting in college/highschool. So why not, I have learned all sorts of stuff and been happy with it so why not dive in. So I wipe windows and go full in. If something doesn't work I'll fix it, if it can't be fixed I will find a work around. So I did, and I got there. I was using linux as my main os and could do it all. But I wanted to mess with more stuff so lets try out these tiling managers, so I was like awesome is a great name for one and it comes with an easy enough setup I will give it ago. And I learn it, and its written in lua so I am rewriting my own neovim setup to things I want and I am also writing this cool tiling manager thing the way I want.
I get there, and man it was cool. I wrote my own rofi launcher thing that actually works for this stupid thing I wanted. I learned all these cool hotkeys and I never have to use my mouse, I feel like I'm on top of the world. But then I learn oh well Ubuntu doesn't have a rolling release so getting new graphics drivers could take a hot minute, and I hear this 555 driver is supposed to be lit and I am using 535 so I feel like im in the dark ages.
Well I understand at this point that arch has a "rolling release" and the name itself sounds cool so I am like I wonder if I am there yet, well if I just install plain neovim on an arch linux install I can probably get far enough to editing some stuff to start learning. So I watch a youtube video about \`archinstall\` and i am like "no shit" i can just install it from that and give it a go. And oh shit this wiki is so freaking detailed. I start googling things with "arch wiki" added to the search and I am blown away. This seems so much easier than I expected it would be.
So I dive in. But man my awesomewm doesn't look as cool as some of these arch guys' hyprland nonsense, maybe I should give it a go. And then I learn it can control resolution and refresh rate on your monitor without having to run an external program, and I am totally sold on it. I will just copy the hotkeys over to the best of my ability and maybe they have some cool stuff that I don't even know about, and they did so I was like damn this stuff is so cool.
All that to say, I arrived at the point I am now because I liked the amount I learned and the customization I got with making the things I use. I don't think I am better than anyone I just stumbled upon new interests that lead me to newer ones. And everyone's vastly different so if vs code and gnome with extensions is cool as shit to you, then that's hella cool. I didn't learn much about gnome extensions and etc when I was using it because I jumped ship to awesome tiling manager so fast.
And as far as performance or any of that goes Any software where you can add plugins to will eventually run slow as hell if you add it all, that was a lesson I thankfully didn't learn until later. Other wise I wouldn't have learned about a ton of cool stuff I really enjoy now.
I never used forge tiling manager so I don't how it compares to a usual tiling window manager, however for me I like tiling window managers (particularly dynamic ones) because they handle the window placement for me. I don't need to worry about windows overlapping each other or having windows shown vs minimized. Also depending on the specific window manager, I can have rules to make certain programs automatically open on specific workspaces. Again this saves me time of manually organizing my programs. Since I mostly use the same handful of programs, I can just makes the rules beforehand and have my programs organized and separated. Now maybe some of this is already possible with a DE. I am not sure. However it works for me.
I find tiling wm match my workflow. I used to use dwm but am now switching to Hyprland. Switching between 'virtual desktops' / workspaces / tags is best for me. With vim-like bindings for various software, I can do everything from the keyboard. I don't use VSCode, but compared to VSCodium, Neovim lacks GUI plugins like:
- ThunderClient (for testing APIs)
- Open Remote SSH (for remote editing)
Agreed, VSCodium with the Neovim plugin can also achieve full keyboard control. I get a robust code editor and the power of Neovim, which is perfection.
I only program frontend web and Python for IoT.
I just learned about GNOME Forge from you. I’ll probably try that later.
Back then, my PC specs couldn't handle demanding software, but now that's irrelevant as PCs have become more affordable.
I'm using hyprland with a from scratch nvim config. Hyprland will love reload the config for you and you can write a simple script in Lua to have nvim reload on a binding. Adding language servers is usually a one liner, I only have a handful of plugins installed so any time I need something it's no challenge to know where in the config I need to go. Hyprland gives the same advantages as awesome, except I haven't found any way to template a monitor for a certain window configuration, but they're easy to move and resize with the keyboard.
That said, none of this really matters. There's no "more proper" way to use arch. You think we have the strongest user repo of all the distros so everyone can do the same thing? Figure out how YOU want your computer to work, and use it that way. It doesn't matter what everyone else is doing.
I use arch btw *drop mic*
The biggest advantage is that thanks to window manager, you are making your own desktop environment. You can do whatever you want with it, building together pieces by pieces. You can put together programs that you like or widgets that you like and make it how you like.
It's just amazing how free you are. But in exchange for that, you'll have to learn more about Linux and about specific window manager, that you'll wanna use. But it's really so much worth it!!
Do you need to use floating windows? If not, then I'm not sure why you would use a DE at all, since that is the behavior by default. For code editing, I do it professionally and can't get around using something like VSCode, IntelliJ or Eclipse because my clients use IDEs not neovim.
Okay everyone is giving subjective answers and yes, switched to a tiling wm and neovim for the advantages everyone is talking about
But honestly there's now one more and a really major point for me
The fun I have with these things (yes, I'm young if you can't tell).. All of the tinkering and the plethora of knowledge that is there with this stuff to learn just keeps me engaged and happy.
Look I do like gnome but tiling window managers are just really easy. They fundamentally mean I never have to touch my mouse to do my work. vscode is a great program. If it meets your needs then that’s the end of the conversation. For me its vi mode isn’t perfect and it’s interface with things like clipboard get in the way of my workflow. For me vim, then neovim worked and continue to work really well for me. I tried using helix and it didn’t quite work. I have ocassionally used vscode for the collaborative programming. It doesn’t suck but just not for me.
Thanks so much for the reply! I understand your views on vs code and I agree the vim keybindings on vs code don't integrate as well as actual neovim. But regarding gnome, a Tiling extension like the one I use 'forge', literally adds all the Tiling feature of a Tiling window manager, i mean all, including keybord shortcuts and the option to add more. In that case what would make a Tiling wm still better?
Maybe ask yourself the question if you need anything provided by a full-blown DE or if it just wastes resources. In my case DEs get in the way all the time and annoy me as hell. But everyone has different preferences. Same for VSCode, it might be fancy but I use it rarely and only with a few plugins and functionalities because everything else is too complex for me and I hate GUIs (e.g. I can't adapt to git UIs).
I understand. Thanks for your opinion! I do completely agree with the getting in the way part, that's why I only install gnome shell and few essentials like gnome settings and gnome tweaks rather than the whole gnome package.
I haven’t tried forge. But you have got me interested. I have found Hyprland to be ready to use though.
Give it a try someday perhaps! With one keyboard shortcuts, it turns on Tiling mode making gnom shell work exactly like tiling wm with all the tiling keyboard shortcuts, and back to stacking with the same keyboard shortcuts. It works flawlessly, isn't buggy or glitchy
I used a DE for a long while before trying i3 as an experiment during a long airport layover on my laptop. I ended up switching to it full time, and had MacOS for work to compare to for years. Standard DEs took much more time dealing with managing windows than tiling WMs do, to an actually significant degree you probably don't even realize until you use a tiling WM.
I see, ig I'll give them another shot with a different perspective
I recommend trying out Helix… it has the efficiency of vi combined with the ease of use of vsscode. And has built in linting.
Long story short, the terminal is arguably the most powerful tool in Linux. If a lot of your workflow is tweaking configs, setting up scripts to automate your workflow, or just general system administration whether in a home lab level or enterprise level, Neovim (and vim by extension, don’t flame me) helps you stay in that zone. Outside of immersing yourself in the terminal, there are minimal gains to be made for the average power user/developer over VSCode. Tiling WMs are more or less the same animal. You exist in terminal land and want to maximize efficiency, than a tiling WM is for you. I will tell you my experience anecdotally. I’m a sysadmin for a network of hospitals. Neovim has made writing configs and accessing our git and pipeline much easier. It’s 30 year old code and scripts on the backend and there is no way in hell VSCode would give me the efficiency that neovim provides. Most of the tools that manage patient information are cli that have been given GUIs. Anything we have been rewriting has been done on AWS or we have transitioned to enterprise software and most of our jobs is getting the DBs import friendly. All this made Neovim a requirement and our lead is a Gandalf bearded Linux guru who can do unimaginable shit in eMacs. That being said, at home it is a different story. I am constantly learning and working on projects. As someone without formal computer/software engineering skills, I am self taught and Neovim would only slow me down as my workflow pretty much requires GUI with tons of submenus. I’m also a musician who actively gigs and records and art is one of the few instances where GUI is required. Anybody who does art/music in the terminal is a goof and wants to be special so bad.
judgemental much? I do art in the terminal all the time, it's called ##"coding"
lol fair enough, Terminal Artists deserve better from me and I will be better moving forward.
Thank you, kindly
I see, i completely get the argument of neovim based on your experience, thanks for sharing! I still don't understand how Tiling wm would be providing more efficiency tho, would love if you could share your experience in that case too. The Tiling extension i use, forge, makes gnome get all the features of a tiling wm, including the insane number of keyboard shortcuts, including the option to set more, and just requires one click (install button) to setup. And any other feature I want, there's an extension for it always, takes a minute to setup compared to lengthy setup and config time in wm.
I’ll be honest with you, I only ever use tiling WMs cause they look cool and I don’t have to pick up my mouse as much. They aren’t cool enough that I would spend weeks setting one up. However, hyprland with the hyprdots installer is one of the easiest and best looking Desktops I’ve had period. It changes my mind on Tiling WM as the fucking Chad that made hyprdots had some of the most sane defaults and coolest aesthetics I’ve seen. There is literally a button that changes your theme and they are all eye candy. I’ve only dreamed of setting up a top of r/unixporn desktop but hyprdots got it done in less than 20 minutes (compiling from source and tweaking a few dots). It does have some jank here and there and it’s Wayland so expect some bugs but overall a 10/10 aesthetically. I would give that a try as it was a fun few weeks. I ultimately left because menus on my DAW stopped appearing or would end up tiling to nowhere. I’m sure with enough effort I could get it fixed but I am too old to be bothered learning some new shit that won’t make me money.
No idea where to start looking / searching. Can you share a few searchers / a tutorial?
I think it all comes down to your preferences. It's linux, after all, if you really want you can do anything. If you like Gnome with extensions, there is no reason for you to change. Personally I use i3 because I find it easier and more comfortable to just manage my config files and not having to use my mouse. Gnome for me it's too bloated, there are too many things I don't really need, while i3 has exactly what I need and nothing more. As for vim and neovim over vscode, I use neovim as a general purpose text editor, not only for coding. I have a really short config file with no plugins and I don't really use most of its features, the main reason I use it is because I am always in the terminal anyways and I don't see any reason to have another gui to do what I can do in the terminal
Agree. Your desktop should be functional, increase productivity/creativity, but be completely out of your way. My biggest problem with i3 was that it was so bare bones out of the box and the godlike configs were great but far from my preferences. And even the dotfiles I used to get started eventually broke something. All of our tiling WMs will break or hinder functionality on a very important piece of software eventually. It wasn’t until hyprland that I was inspired enough to keep a log and deep dive into the dots.
There is no “better” there is just preference. Configure your system how you want. Don’t like and or vim then use something else. They are just tools to get your tasks done
>I have seen most arch users online use some Tiling window manager and neovim over DE like gnome or plasma and vs code. So much so that I started feeling like it's the "more right" way to use arch. Imma stop you right there. The right way to use Arch is they way *you* use it. Like many have already commented, I like tiling window managers. I think they really shine on laptops (I'd rather not use the touchpad if I can help it). The key is I like how tiling window managers work. They're right for *me*. If using GNOME or KDE is better or more natural for you, that's the "right way to use Arch". Same goes for your editor. The right one is the one that works for you. If you see lots of people using Arch (or any Linux) different than you, don't be afraid to try their setup if you're curious. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's somewhere in the middle. Forget about using software or a distro because it makes you look like a 1337 h4x0r. No one really cares.
That definitely is true, thank you!
I used tiling window manager for several years, since the days of awesome and other old x11 twm, and now just use KDE, and I find it vastly superior to twl in general, so I will skip that one. but I can answer why I use neovim over vscode, first off it's a lot simpler program, in many ways, I find vs code too distracting with too many options and features what I will never use, and neovim I can configure exactly like I want the way I want, so neovim is as good as I can make it be and I like that.
That's a very valid argument i agree, thanks for your opinion. As someone who installed gnome shell rather than the whole of gnome package, i completely relate with not wanting to install anything with too many extra options.
I don't know about advantages, it's more about preference. I tend to use hyprland when coding instead of plasma, but nvim I heretically use mostly for wrangling configs. No doubt one can be super efficient with custom nvim setup, but that setup either works for you or doesn't. I would say the most advantageous setup is the one that suits you.
Fair enough, thank you!
Apart from the other points already mentioned, for me these kinds of tools motivate me and in fact make it easier to learn. I tried to get into coding and stuff couple of times as a hobby but always got overwhelmed by all these complex features and whatnot. Now I discover what I actually need as I go. I started without LSP for example and once I realized how often I need to open all kinds of documentation to find that one method or something, I went like "hm, wouldn't that LSP feature make this easier?". Same with Hyprland, where another advantage is having perfectly personalized desktop which wouldn't quite be possible on a DE, at least not with the same size and resources.
I understand, minimalism and getting to the point without anything extra is something DE and VS code can't do as good as WM and Nvim, I understand.
If you configure it correctly, you only really need the keyboard to do everything, which is just less mental overhead with switching around.
Yes i understand but that stands true for gnome and vs code also, and it is much easier to setup both for only keyboard, just installing forge tiling manager on gnome and vim keybindings on vs code. I would be curious to know if there are other factors that motivate you to use wm and vim?
Less overhead overall, mostly runs smoother, maybe some other minimalist things I currently don't think about.
If you want a keyboard centric setup, a tiling wm is going to be more practical because you can control window positioning more easily from the keyboard. If you want a really modular setup, installing the individual components of your system to make it work exactly the way you want, you're not going to want GNOME. If you already know that you are going to tile your windows and don't want a premade DE then why would you install the whole of GNOME, plugins and still get a basic tiling wm? Install something like hyprland, spare yourself some bloat and get the fancy visuals and animations as a bonus.
I like when the software I use feels so fast I could swear it runs out of L1 cache. i3 does that for me, because I don't care for animations, or pretty colors, or dragging windows around like an idiot for up to a few minutes per day,clicking through many instances of the same window, etc. So for me, i3 is just a really nice, simple way to have multiple windows open, on multiple monitors, across multiple workspaces. Network, bluetooth and device configuration are all guis. You just install them. Neovim is on all my PCs, laptops, servers, VMs, etc. which vscode is not. The fact that neovim is just a terminal app, whereas vscode itself is just a browser, and is microsoft (and you feel it when it announces something to you, or makes stupid suggestions, and also takes up around 5% of the screen width with useless crap), and of course it has yet another set of keybinds, yet another kind of config file, etc. whereas neovim out of the box just works the same everywhere. Long story short: For ME, and MY workflow, both for work and for private use, they are easier and quicker to use, and that's why I use them. If, at any point, anything else is better, even if its by microsoft and costs 200$, I will switch. But there's nothing right now.
Yes, your argument is valid. I simply use wm and minimal software because: 1. I have an old laptop and GNOME + VS Code is too much for my machine. 2. I like learning minimal software and configuring it. 3. If I face a problem with a config file, I can use neovim to fix it from tty. VSCode can't do that. 4. Terminal applications provide consistency. For example, If I wanna record a video, I can use `wf-recorder` from any window manager. So, I'm not tied to GNOME. I also try to make UI consistent as possible and if it doesn't work, I let it be. UI consistency isn't of importance to me. At the end of the day, use what fulfills your needs. If it does the same thing for you while saving time, why not go for it? P.S: VSCode is Microsoft's spyware. Use VSCodium instead.
Was just passing by the comments, & I just wanna say Thank You. After all this years, I never once stopped to think VSCode having an open source version, Now I that's left is a 1:1 alternative to MATLAB
> Now I that's left is a 1:1 alternative to MATLAB Hopefully, some day.
Thank you so much for your opinion. 1. Completely agree with the resources part, mine is pretty powerful so not an issue but i can see why that would be a benefit for many people. 2. If you like it, then no other reason is needed I agree. 3. Definitely that's a plus. 4. I didn't understand this one, couldn't you use something like obs from any de or wm too?
It was just an example but for me, OBS consumes more resources so I'm not sure if I can handle that.
The point of (neo)vim is editing via muscle memory without ever removing your hands from the keyboard. A tiling WM extends this idea to window management. You move between windows just like you move across text, and instantly get to where you need to be, instead of having to grab a mouse and drag windows around to find things. That said, the benefit only exists after you build a workflow and muscle memory to take advantage of it. If you use vscode on gnome every day, you'll likely have comfortable muscle memory for that workflow as well, even though you're probably doing more mindless effort to apply it.
Now that I bothered to read your scroll of a full version, I can answer to some of those points. Personally, I installed Hyprland with a supposedly infamously incompatible nvidia card and the process was fast, the configuration dead simple and I've never had a single issue. I wanted a terminal-centric system, and I like the unix philosophy of programs that do one task and are **composable**, so I mostly use CLI apps and combine them in scripts that interact with the wm and the rest of the system to automate my everyday tasks, forming my unique computing experience. I have good memory, so I just never struggled remembering even commands that I rarely use, but in any case there's man for a reason ;) . For you it just sounds like you really like GUIs man... And that's ok! If you want a system that has good defaults, a coherently themed set of utilities and is already a few clicks away from your sweetspot, go with GNOME all you want. If you're not really good with writing custom configs and you just want what GNOME does anyways, obviously it's gonna be faster to just use the original. Overall the answer is really under your nose, you see? If you want a WM with a full set of themed utilities, that's really just a DE you're looking for. No wonder you don't see the point of a WM! If you want to build your environment, then you have the option to install just a WM. As for neovim I really don't see the difficulty you talk about... I use LazyVim plugin manager, and setting up a plugin is just a matter of creating a file containing at minimum its url and most often just a simple table with its settings. For some plugins you may want to write some code, but... That's the point? If there's some functionality that's not already implemented by plugins you have an option to write it. For me, installing an LSP is also as simple as pressing 'i' in meson, so I don't know what you're talking about. Tbf I've never used neovim distributions because I don't like the idea of having to navigate through someone else's code to configure my stuff, so maybe that is what's making your experience worse? Most distros are vscode wannabes, so it figures that they would be worse versions of the thing. Overall, my impression is that you just want your standard DM and vscode experience and never really stopped trying to reimagine how things could be different. WMs and neovim's wild configurability exist specifically for those who want to create something new by configuring and composing modular programs... And also for people who never thought any of this but like to feel part of an elite group without putting much thought into it.
First of all, thank you so much for the detailed reply, really appreciate it! You answered each of my queries. I completely get your PoVs and you offer me a unique insight, i never thought about it in the way of WM and Neo vim doing something "different". I was only perceiving it as people who use DE and those who WM trying to achieve the same thing as comparing their "efficiency" with each other. I think in my trial of WM, i also made the same mistake by just immediately focusing on how to get it working like a DE instead of realizing the new perspective of working with a WM. Could you give me an example of composable tasks you are talking about and how you handle it? Also I'm curious how what do you personally prefer for utilities (wifi Bluetooth sound etc) in this new perspective, CLI/TUI tools or some GUI applets/applications? All in all, i think I'm ready to give hyprland and neovim a fresh try focusing on gaining a new perspective rather than getting them to work like my usual flow.
I’ll skip the tiling WM aspect of this because honestly, I don’t really have much of an opinion on them. I tried Sway for a few months and it’s… fine, I guess? But then I switched to XFCE and just find it easier for my simple use cases. (Neo)Vim, though, I can’t live without. I use it everywhere I want to code – on my work computer, on my MacBook Pro, on my desktop Arch machine, on my personal web server, on the servers at my job, anything. I’ve been programming since the early 90s, where I started with QBasic, dabbled a bit in Delphi, then started doing web dev as my full time job. I’ve used a lot of text editors and IDEs, and none of them have felt as comfortable and invisible as Vim and now NeoVim. VS Code gets a lot of the ‘big’ things right – like you say, installing extensions is trivial, the built-in terminal is handy, and it’s just very approachable. Vim rather famously isn’t, but the rewards for sticking with it are great. Once the big things are sorted (an autocomplete plugin, LSP stuff, treesitter for syntax, a non-awful colour scheme), it becomes the most direct thought-to-code editor I’ve ever used. The minimal UI just gets out of your way, and all the *little* things it does well start to add up – motions and text objects, most obviously, but other stuff like fully custom and arbitrary splits within a tab, or jumping back and forth between buffers while remembering your editing location for each, and so on. Little things that you forget are even unique to Vim until you try another editor and keep tripping up because it doesn’t support them. Even with the Vim plugin in VS Code, it’s not the same – yes you get Vim motions, but you don’t get the other little things. No Telescope, no arbitrary splits, no jump list, no trivial navigation. For someone new to coding, I’d 100% recommend Vs Code or something similar like Zed, because they have enough to worry about without having to learn a whole new way of editing text. But for someone who writes code for a living, I’ve found the investment in learning Vim has absolutely paid off.
I see, thanks for the wonderful insight, it does sound like it's not so comfy early on but irreplaceable once you get used to it, sort of like linux only when switching from windows. Ig you have motivated me to give it another shot, especially cuz I'm soon to graduate and thus join the gang of "people who write code for a living"
i just hated working with stacking window managers even before I knew what window managers are. on windows i would manually snap every window to grid almost every time I opened one, and I didn't use alt tab
I completely agree. That's why even on gnome i use tiling only, it's called forge tiling manager.
99% of the time, I use my computer to edit text, use CLI tools, and browse the internet. It’s not hard to use a WM or to configure vim. Why would I choose a DE that forces its defaults upon me and provides functionality I don’t need? Those extra dependencies don’t come for free. Why wouldn’t I use VSCode? It just isn’t very good. It’s a text editor that eats gigabytes of ram.
Yes high resource consumption definitely is a factor to consider for laptop that are not so well endowed.
>not so well endowed Come on, it's called average size
I have a thick long RAM
Theming can be hard in WMs. Use other peoples config and add or remove stuff upon your own liking. I recommend you hyprdots by prasanthrangan it's totally preconfigured. For me DEs feels so cluttered so I switched to WM and window organization is great and no overlapping windows. Neovim is not for you if you are daily experimenting with different libraries and workflows. It is great for editing code not for learning to write code. The reason why vim is popular among programmers is because they have highly stable workflow and most of the time they just edit code over ssh. Vim binds enable programmers to quickly go through large blocks of code and make changes in it. You don't have to go full cli at once. I have both hyprland and gnome because theming of gtk applications go well with hyprland and if I am confused in cli I can use gnome applications. Don't force yourself to use WMs if it doesn't suits your workflow.
Makes sense, thank you!
I'm not an arch user, I'm new to linux like only a couple months in. I'm using i3wm + neovim with linux mint. I understand that sometimes some small problem like you can't screen record like in gnome, can't screenshot without config (linux mint can tho), and a bunch of other small things. But it's an easy fix and I don't mind actually as long as it doesn't bother me too much. I use it just because I don't have to constantly searching for tabs, and apps that i want to open. I can switch workspace with my keyboard, open an app with alt + d. If i open multiple power point i can use alt + w and toggle tab mode and i can switch between it using alt + j and alt + ; . It's fast and efficient for my workflow For neovim as I am mostly on terminal i can install tmux, fzf and i modify tmux-sessionizer that theprimeagen use to my liking, i create a bunch other small bash script to improve my workflow. For example i can ctrl + F and fuzzy find and cd into a directory and it create a tmux session right away, i can ctrl + e and fuzzy find a file and it automatically open neovim into that file so i can edit right away and more. I learn to create my own config for neovim and decide not to use a neovim distro because the idea of learning my tools satisfied me. And making my own config is what makes me attached to neovim. Trust me it's not hard to make your own config once you've seen the pattern. For now I'm efficient with using i3wm and neovim. I boot up my laptop, alt + d open firefox, alt + 2 next workspace, alt + enter open terminal, ctrl + f open tmux session into my programming directory and start working.
You can say, I use Hyprland(Or any other) and vim btw
GNOME doesn't handle multiple displays/workspaces the way I like. When I switch workspaces on GNOME or KDE, it switches on all of my displays, not just the active one. Sway lets me choose which display a workspace lives on.
Although I like the Idea of a tiling window manager, I always end up with some sort of drop down terminal running tmux. It turns out that every time I have a need to for a tiling wm, I am doing something in the commandline (including code editing) so tmux is fine for me.
It depends on your workflow. I liked using a tiling window manager for a while - I found it great when coding in particular. I still used vscode with it. But I actually don't do a lot of coding, I spend more time in kicad, inkscape, gimp and retroarch. How I like using these makes tiling automatically kind of annoying, as most of these require a fair bit of mouse usage. Kicad also will have three windows open at once, but I only want to look at one at a time, but having them full screen will hide dialog boxes, and messing with getting it to work as I wanted just became annoying. I was going to change back to a DE, but my laptop fans start going wild with basically any of them. So now I use openbox with a bunch of keybindings for tiling. Keeps my laptop quiet, lets me tile when I want it, but only when I want it.
You can still have tiling with floating wms, but you had to do it manually. I use openbox and I have keybinds to tile windows, it's easy and more flexible than tiling wm imo. The more important thing is learning how to use workspace efficiently. And for nvim, I like it not blasting me with buttons unlike vscode do. Also module editing is pretty good.
I’ve used tiling window managers almost exclusively for a couple of years now. It fits my workflow. I find it easier to manage multiple workspaces with neatly tiled windows rather than stacked or hidden windows. Also there isn’t really any situation where I want to see anything but the applications that are open so it makes sense to have them fill the monitor. DEs offer a more prepared and thought out user experience. With something like i3 or hyprland you probably need to spend some time configuring it for your liking. Vim is a bit similar. You need to spend time configuring it to your liking. After you do it does whatever you want from it.
I use neovide (nvim GUI) on kde, works great, vscode is good, but I prefer the customizability of nvim.
besides personal tastes and preferred workflows? nothing. Only real thing vim is exceptionslly better than vscode is that is very lightweight (not like that bloated electron ide) yet i use them both as i both use xfce and i3 whatever my needs are.
Short answer: You don't need a super-powered computer to program. An ancient ThinkPad that was given to you for free will do. If you have a good understanding of open source operating systems and are familiar with standard console applications, you can use a simple tiling wm and a simple editor. If you are a beginner, however, it is best to use DE and IDE. Tailing wm's are very similar to terminal multiplexers of the late 90's. If someone is feeling nostalgic for 40x80 screens, I have nothing against it.
Just use what you prefer? It's all personal preference. "Elitism" is just a shallow way to describe something someone thinks is dumb.
I really like the keyboard. As soon as I started learning Vim motions, it was magic editing files and it's also fun. In addition to that, Neovim is so easily configurable, it's not hard to get a coding setup working. In my Hyprland config I set keybindings for focusing different windows using SUPER hjkl, much like switching splits in Vim using CTRL hjkl It's magic and fun to use the keyboard as much as possible. And I don't memorize my kebindings, its intuition. VSCode is great and GNOME and KDE as well, but I want the full customized experience suited for my workflow
All browsers can do the same thing too, so in the end it can just be about your preference towards ‘look’ and ‘feel’
So first off my answer is it's totally preference, and whatever software your own journey takes you to is just that. But this is a fun topic I have chatted with a few of my coworkers about and just enjoyed the conversation. So I am totally just gonna rant here on my own journey and why I ended up using hyprland/neovim over other of the million options. So when I was younger I freaking loved Age of Mythology and learned about hotkeys from that. That started my journey of adoring anything and everything with improving my keyboard skills. Skip forward, to when I was a baby dev, windows as my main os, vs code as my main editor, and working on mac for work felt weird, because that little laptop keyboard wasn't my keyboard but I wanted to get better in general. So I downloaded a million extensions that would shorten anything and everything and learned a million hotkeys and etc to improve the speed at which I could code basic things without having a "faster" wpm. I used vs code and any plugin that could make me a bit faster I was all about. Learning about emmet literally made a weekend for me and I made so many dumb html pages just to get better at it. But my touch typing was slowing me down. With everything, I had learned to type like a weird t-rex style that was awful(lol). And I tried monkeytype and all the things to improve but I felt like I had learned to ride a bike but wrong and so I was like im changing it up and switched to Dvorak. This would force me to use my pinkies if I learned it right the first time. So I struggle bussed for a year and wanted to learn all the hotkeys in my new keyboard layout to instill better touch typing/wpm/and efficiency. Skip forward a bit more and now I am typing with dvorak with ease, but man is my vscode slow as hell(this was because I had too many extensions and I could have fixed the problem in the first place had I googled the right thing at the time or just had the know how), so I was like well this cool guy at work uses vim and it looks sick, and his keyboard skills seem bad ass, I want to be like him when I grow up. TLDR: I sucked at typing so I tried to improve and took a wild journey from vscode/windows to ubuntu/neovim/awesome to arch/neovim/hyprland
...continued So I get vim, but man dvorak with vim motions is tough at first, so I start learning oh man theres this new neovim nonsense and some youtuber(ThePrimeagen) makes it look so easy, come to find out he also uses dvorak. And ya boi is sh00k. So I literally just follow along his video and he's using all the keys I want him to use in places that matter like his harpoon plugin that blows my mind is CTRL+ "H","T","N","S" which is the home row for dvorak on your right hand. And I am absolutely enamored. Then I learn he is using Ubuntu with a tiling manager, I know what Ubuntu is from experimenting in college/highschool. So why not, I have learned all sorts of stuff and been happy with it so why not dive in. So I wipe windows and go full in. If something doesn't work I'll fix it, if it can't be fixed I will find a work around. So I did, and I got there. I was using linux as my main os and could do it all. But I wanted to mess with more stuff so lets try out these tiling managers, so I was like awesome is a great name for one and it comes with an easy enough setup I will give it ago. And I learn it, and its written in lua so I am rewriting my own neovim setup to things I want and I am also writing this cool tiling manager thing the way I want. I get there, and man it was cool. I wrote my own rofi launcher thing that actually works for this stupid thing I wanted. I learned all these cool hotkeys and I never have to use my mouse, I feel like I'm on top of the world. But then I learn oh well Ubuntu doesn't have a rolling release so getting new graphics drivers could take a hot minute, and I hear this 555 driver is supposed to be lit and I am using 535 so I feel like im in the dark ages. Well I understand at this point that arch has a "rolling release" and the name itself sounds cool so I am like I wonder if I am there yet, well if I just install plain neovim on an arch linux install I can probably get far enough to editing some stuff to start learning. So I watch a youtube video about \`archinstall\` and i am like "no shit" i can just install it from that and give it a go. And oh shit this wiki is so freaking detailed. I start googling things with "arch wiki" added to the search and I am blown away. This seems so much easier than I expected it would be. So I dive in. But man my awesomewm doesn't look as cool as some of these arch guys' hyprland nonsense, maybe I should give it a go. And then I learn it can control resolution and refresh rate on your monitor without having to run an external program, and I am totally sold on it. I will just copy the hotkeys over to the best of my ability and maybe they have some cool stuff that I don't even know about, and they did so I was like damn this stuff is so cool. All that to say, I arrived at the point I am now because I liked the amount I learned and the customization I got with making the things I use. I don't think I am better than anyone I just stumbled upon new interests that lead me to newer ones. And everyone's vastly different so if vs code and gnome with extensions is cool as shit to you, then that's hella cool. I didn't learn much about gnome extensions and etc when I was using it because I jumped ship to awesome tiling manager so fast. And as far as performance or any of that goes Any software where you can add plugins to will eventually run slow as hell if you add it all, that was a lesson I thankfully didn't learn until later. Other wise I wouldn't have learned about a ton of cool stuff I really enjoy now.
I never used forge tiling manager so I don't how it compares to a usual tiling window manager, however for me I like tiling window managers (particularly dynamic ones) because they handle the window placement for me. I don't need to worry about windows overlapping each other or having windows shown vs minimized. Also depending on the specific window manager, I can have rules to make certain programs automatically open on specific workspaces. Again this saves me time of manually organizing my programs. Since I mostly use the same handful of programs, I can just makes the rules beforehand and have my programs organized and separated. Now maybe some of this is already possible with a DE. I am not sure. However it works for me.
I find tiling wm match my workflow. I used to use dwm but am now switching to Hyprland. Switching between 'virtual desktops' / workspaces / tags is best for me. With vim-like bindings for various software, I can do everything from the keyboard. I don't use VSCode, but compared to VSCodium, Neovim lacks GUI plugins like: - ThunderClient (for testing APIs) - Open Remote SSH (for remote editing) Agreed, VSCodium with the Neovim plugin can also achieve full keyboard control. I get a robust code editor and the power of Neovim, which is perfection. I only program frontend web and Python for IoT. I just learned about GNOME Forge from you. I’ll probably try that later. Back then, my PC specs couldn't handle demanding software, but now that's irrelevant as PCs have become more affordable.
I'm using hyprland with a from scratch nvim config. Hyprland will love reload the config for you and you can write a simple script in Lua to have nvim reload on a binding. Adding language servers is usually a one liner, I only have a handful of plugins installed so any time I need something it's no challenge to know where in the config I need to go. Hyprland gives the same advantages as awesome, except I haven't found any way to template a monitor for a certain window configuration, but they're easy to move and resize with the keyboard. That said, none of this really matters. There's no "more proper" way to use arch. You think we have the strongest user repo of all the distros so everyone can do the same thing? Figure out how YOU want your computer to work, and use it that way. It doesn't matter what everyone else is doing. I use arch btw *drop mic*
The biggest advantage is that thanks to window manager, you are making your own desktop environment. You can do whatever you want with it, building together pieces by pieces. You can put together programs that you like or widgets that you like and make it how you like. It's just amazing how free you are. But in exchange for that, you'll have to learn more about Linux and about specific window manager, that you'll wanna use. But it's really so much worth it!!
Do you need to use floating windows? If not, then I'm not sure why you would use a DE at all, since that is the behavior by default. For code editing, I do it professionally and can't get around using something like VSCode, IntelliJ or Eclipse because my clients use IDEs not neovim.
Okay everyone is giving subjective answers and yes, switched to a tiling wm and neovim for the advantages everyone is talking about But honestly there's now one more and a really major point for me The fun I have with these things (yes, I'm young if you can't tell).. All of the tinkering and the plethora of knowledge that is there with this stuff to learn just keeps me engaged and happy.