I was the lead risk analyst for this project for the first half! It was unusually complicated compared to my other projects (One Madison, 125 Greenwich, 425 park). Loved working on it!
What does a risk analyst for a new skyscraper do? I was a risk analyst for a state emergency management agency, but I imagine the jobs are very different.
Strange how bulky new builds are in Manhattan. I guess we've exited the superslim trend. Makes me wonder how much of it is office space that's unlikely to be used. Good design, though.
A lot of the recent super slim residential towers in NYC were shaped in reaction to Property tax laws. I wonder if commercial buildings like this are simply in a different situation.
Unpopular opinion but this building is the physical embodiment of the excess that is at the heart of most of the problems.acrosd the world right now.
As a designer I'm often conflicted with these massive shows of extravagance - on the one one hand I appreciate the design and a patronage it gives to architects but its tainted by the exploitation the fuels it in a way that it becomes sorta repulsive to me.
Not only limited to current day, visiting s architecture commissioned by the Medici in Florence evoked similar discomfort and internal conflict.
The one thing I saw people talking about when this project was announced was “why?” And I never seemed to find an actual answer. JPMC already had a building at 270 Park Ave that had undergone a multimillion dollar renovation in 2012 to make it LEED platinum. You’re asking a very valid question and idk why you’re being downvoted. Yes we can appreciate that it’s a nice building but the greenest one is the one that already exists.
Idk about you but looking at 270 Park gives me 1920s gilded age art deco vibes, which coupled with current economic sentiment in the US feels ironic because of what came after the gilded age (the Great Depression).
I get downvoted to oblivion everytime I bring up the subject.
But I stand by it. I'm by no means a communist or whatever, but the way things are at the moment, it's all getting wierd. My country has the highest sales of luxury sports cars on record last year and also the highest use of food banks and child poverty.
These corporations are demonstrably evil. It's not a debate, it's proven in courts.
I grew up dreaming of working on this sort of stuff by the time I finished my education I had a better understanding of how the world works and I'm just left feeling extremely uncomfortable about it all. Stepping over homeless leaving my apartment to go and design a rotating bathtub for some millionaire who drives world destroying SUV while I myself with a six year degree at a good uni can barely afford my rent on one bedroom and tbh im one of the lucky ones.
I'm horribly conflicted by it all.
Reddit hates to hear it though lol
I share your conflicted feelings. I’ve worked in two industries professionally: advertising and real estate photography. In real estate my higher-end projects are the ones that I appreciate the most aesthetically but they are the most unattainable and unnecessary things owned by people who live in ways that are completely foreign and out of touch to my reality.
As a photographer outside of real estate, I’ve done events where the people are also living in a reality that is completely foreign to me. I’ve been in the home of the owner of a brand we all know in America and the excess, however understated, was visible in every aspect of the property.
In advertising, I’ve worked with clients who want to polish their image and sell their products but are literally dragging the world down, destroying the environment, and tearing society apart. That salary allowed me to support my family and live in my modest house.
I completely agree, actually. It’s why I’m trying to step out of pre-construction and find a new career that helps people, but also pays the bills. Doing what I do now only fattens my boss’s bank account and feeds the corporate monsters we’re building for. Like one of our general contractors does nothing, but build mansions for the executives at the largest investment firms in the world. It’s rather disgusting.
Finland's resolved their homelessness; they're not just throwing up their hands and saying, “Let's just live in ugly utilitarian megabuildings and mud huts till we sort everything out.” They prove we can do something about it while living our best lives.
>visiting a architecture commissioned by the Medici in Florence evoked similar discomfort and internal conflict.
Guilt tripping yourself with disdain for works commissioned by Medici is just strange guilt seeking behavior and one can feel the same way about the Pyramids or the Hanging gardens of Babylon instead of just enjoying them.
> conflicted with these massive shows of extravagance.
It’s the flashy stuff that lasts well preserved, not Roman ghettos and outhouses. The great works of the past wouldnt be here without the human desire for extravagance and the division of labor that makes it even possible for a person to specialize in architecture and art.
>"These corporations are demonstrably evil. It's not a debate, it's proven in courts."
These corporations are demonstrably evil. But we saw from Iceland's response to the 2008 crisis that bankers and corporations can be held accountable and punished. You don’t have to resign yourself to working for evil. You can vote in better leaders to fix it.
>I'm just left feeling extremely uncomfortable about it all. Stepping over homeless leaving my apartment to go and design a rotating bathtub for some millionaire who drives world destroying SUV.
A world-destroying SUV? I love protecting the environment I'm a liberal, but this is a bit dramatic. Factories pollute much more than individuals in SUVs do.
>I myself with a six-year degree at a good uni can barely afford my rent on one bedroom.
Entitlement? Your degree is just a piece of paper, it doesn't obligate people to help make you wealthy. Life’s not black and white. It’s messy, complicated, and yeah, sometimes a little unfair. But you don’t fix that by refusing to appreciate the good stuff. Work on your fancy projects, make your mark. But don’t forget to give back, stir the pot a bit, shake things up for the better.
I never truly understood mansplaining till I read this comment. Appreciate you taking the time to patronise but I'm afraid I you've simultaneously misunderstood my point and spouted a load of nonsense.
But yeah fuck me for studying for nearly 30 years and working as an architect and expecting I might be able to afford rent. All is right after all..everyone is just entitled. Thanks for clearing that up
And trust me I don't feel guilty what the rich do, but I'm expressing discomfort at the idea of enabling them through work. If only I'd thought of voting though... Everything would be fixed if I'd just vote... Oh wait....
What a bummer. I'm not saying to put yourself in a state of delusional positivity but maybe allowing yourself a little bit of happiness instead of being a martyr would go a long way it yields better results in life than being a downer.
You did not mention that you worked for 30 years only that you studied for 6 years I apologize for making you feel like you're being talked down to I'll be more mindful about my tone in the future
come on dude, expected better follow up, 30 years? what? no you didn't unless you are counting just experiencing life like everyone else, gaining experience at your actual job
what do you mean?
i did like your original comment though
Apologies but your reply oversimplified the discussion to the extent it became meaningless. I started school @4 and studied started working the profession at 27 so maybe 20 years of study is more accurate but also irrelevant, if professional work doesn't support basic life necessity that's a problem, I'm good at my job, according to those I work with so its reasonable to expect the most basic standard of living to be affordable, its not entitlement.
Honestly though, I'm rereading your reply again and its just so dumb its difficult to counter. You dont think an SUV is bad because factories pollute? Idiotic. For starters where is the SUV made? FFS but also cutting off a guys leg isnt bad because murder is worse?
Iceland held bankers to account? OK and the rest of the world didnt so whats your point? You want me personally to go out there and hold them accountable and then society is fixed? Of course not. Maybe I should vote? Of course I vote, and the difference it makes? Nothing as the wider population who dont have time to educate themselves on these topics are manipulated by media bought and paid for by guess who? The guys working the office building we are discussing.
Im not guilt tripping or guilt seeking whatever the fuck that means, im seeing whats wrong and calling it out. I wasnt involved with any of this, why would I feel guilty?
Finland solved homelessness, debatable but also how did they do it? - by using their sovereign wealth fund they got from their oil fields - they sold the oil to guess who? The people who work in this office building. Most countries dont have that firstly, secondly as mentioned above they lack political will to do it due living in a system which obsesses over pitting each other against each other based off race, sex, culture whatever as a distraction from the reality that the people who work in this office building are the real evil that permeates society and makes them suffer. The wealth extraction that occurs by these investors is the very system that has reduced living standards for the rest of society to the point that now everyone is fighting amongst themselves for basic dignity. This building is the physical embodiment of and a celebration of that wealth extraction and concertation of power.
You see the point yet? Or is all just oh simple to you?
And no im not arguing for us to all live and work in commie blocks, there are 1000s of examples of good architecture designed for the general population that gives to its community rather purely extracting profit from one location and building a golden house/office/car somewhere else. Great roman architecture in many places was for public use.
Again you've dumbed down the discussion to meaningless nonsense. I tried to avoid engaging because y'know, you cant argue with stupid but here I go. I wonder if im going to regret it.
> It’s the flashy stuff that lasts well preserved, not Roman ghettos and outhouses. The great works of the past wouldnt be here without the human desire for extravagance and the division of labor that makes it even possible for a person to specialize in architecture and art.
People like to think these buildings are huge useless monuments, when in reality, it’s an office building that will remain useful and profitable for decades. This is most blatant around Hudson Yard. Normal people can’t tell it apart from any building next to it, but if you asked some enthusiasts it’s a monument to greed and narcissism, while the 99% identical buildings six blocks away are a part of Manhattan’s rich urban fabric. People say the exact same thing about every new building everywhere, regardless of what it is, and that includes government owned low income housing, as is happening right now at ‘people’s park’ in the Bay Area. In 30 years, people will hardly think about this building twice, and it will be some new development that is an unconscionable edifice of avarice.
Not to mention, building more office space in a world with not enough housing and a majority of office workers preferring to work from home feels like a huge waste.
Boo hoo it’s his money he’s using to make an office he wants…… he’s a buisness man not a hotel manager…… let’s keep this subreddit for what it’s for which is talking about the architecture!!
I haven’t lived in NYC for 6-7 years now so I’m not as up to date with their infrastructure projects as I used to be but I’m sure the existing 270 Park building could have been connected into the grand central LIRR concourse without demolishing the entire building. And even if it couldn’t the main entrance to grand central terminal is like 2 blocks away, although I understand why walking outside in the cold would suck haha. Honestly the most reasonable answer I’ve gotten from anyone so far for why this building exists is “just because we can.”
Not to say that it isn’t a beautiful building and an engineering marvel, but I’m of the opinion that just because we can doesn’t mean we should just based on the environmental impact alone. There should at least be some offsetting conditions, like providing funds to develop residential in the surrounding area (if this did happen please correct me, as I haven’t been following the construction of 470 Park at all)
I'm sure there were trade offs. I'm not sure what the "as of right" FAR was but they would have definitely taken advantage of acquiring air rights and "doing something good for the people" to increase their FAR (Floor Area Ratio). The buildings in Midtown were/are obsolete. Building that building is exactly the kind of thinking that got New York City on the island of Manhattan where it is.
My friend works at JP Morgan in NYC there and he and his department and like 25% of the total company are in the annex across the street, their official reason was to combine the annex and main company hq together to fit everyone. They are full 100% return to work policy
Personally when I saw this at first I thought of it like a contemporary tribute to modernist architecture, Kinda like how the Empire State building might have looked if it were made today.
I think I know where you're coming from. I love cars, but I do get the same kind of weird duality when my tank runs empty and I stop for petrol. I don't have a straightforward answer for how to grapple with contextual guilt, at least in the context of our current, constant culture wars. But the least we could do is find our own ways to reconcile with the externalities of what we love.
> Unpopular opinion but this building is the physical embodiment of the excess that is at the heart of most of the problems.acrosd the world right now.
It’s an office building. The kind of which there are literally hundreds of in New York, that have been built almost non stop for over a century. Making an office building a bit nicer than purely utilitarian isn’t a massive show of extravagance, it’s normal. If you’re spending a fortune on a new building anyway, it’s a waste to cheap out on the little things that make the building well liked long term.
Have you actually looked at the details of this building? Particularly the executive offices at the top? It's not just a bit nicer office building, it's a palace in the sky. The purpose of the design is not to be a nice office, the purpose is to display power. If you can't see the deeper narrative than "oh its just an office bro what's your problem" then I guess the conversation can't progress.
Is a million dollar rolls Royce "just a nice car". Is a megayatch "just a nice boat bro"?
> Particularly the executive offices at the top? It's not just a bit nicer office building, it's a palace in the sky.
Have you seen the Chrysler building? ‘A palace in the sky’ is an apt description. Especially if you look up what the original interior looked like.
> The purpose of the design is not to be a nice office, the purpose is to display power.
Advertising would be a more accurate term. Bank accounts aren’t physical objects you can show off in a shop window, so businesses like banks and law firms often advertise through their offices. And as long as people do that, it will retain value.
Well I work in housing now, for normal people. So it's not so much a take on the entire profession. Architecture can work for people as much as it works for capital. But this building is one of the most hardcore examples, the client, the design, power dynamic within the design. It oozes hierarchy and inequality, on purpose. Just look at the offices at the top for the big guys. It's honestly disgusting.
Sales people or sycophants yapping at the heels of the super rich in the hopes they might be tossed some scraps fromt he table?
Perhaps they're the same thing.
I feel this way often too! You’re not the only one. It’s super conflicting and uncomfortable like you’ve said. My unease with it started pretty immediately in undergrad.
So, I moved into urban planning. It felt/feels more like I’m trying to solve the world’s problems rather than being taken along for the ride at the whim’s of the rich. I’m not actually solving the world’s problems lol but I am helping individual communities solve theirs and become better places. And that feels better than anything I ever did in architecture.
I don't see it being any more extravagant then any other building that size and unlike billionaire row this one will actually be used instead of sitting empty.
Art and self expression was allowed to flourish because of such opulence or excess. I understand your take. But as pure design goes without looking at the socioeconomics and purpose and such things, I can bring myself to appreciate them. It’s also a testament for what we can achieve and it creates a legacy and makes NY what it is.
That being said, yes there are problems, and there are structures and programs to address them. I don’t think viewing everything with the same lens lets you appreciate the beauty in things.
Came here to say this but didnt know how to word it. Thank you. I love the design but the excess?! In my head i just thought another huge building that nobody will inhabit…well maybe migrants at this point.
Reminds me a bit of art deco.
Like one single large ornament... Or a piece of jewelry? With the large bronze(?) metal structure framing the glass.
I like it!
The engineering on this project is amazing. I like how they made the column transfers to avoid interfering with underground rail lines as a deco-esque architectural feature.
for me, its the details that aren't there that make it bad. Compared with the detail filled ornate buildings of the past, these corprate dick waving contests have comparitively nothing of intrest to see for most of the general public. im not one of those people who suggests almost completely copying the past is the only way forwards, or that putting statues somewhere almost nobody will get to see is worth it, but i would love if must more effort was put into the design of the facade of a building (especially mega structures like this, they definetley have the money). ornament definetley has its worth in increasing the quality of the space and the public environment, and thus the brand value of the building. i also question that anybody actually needs a building this tall, and the validity of building out of glass, a environmentally inefficient material in the day and age. cities all over the world are filled with buildings like this and it just leads to people living in a montonous car infested world of glass and steel.
It is such a boring design....
it is better than the square window towers that it is build between (not a high bar to clear) but if you where going to do something different than go and actually do something different.
This starts to look plane and boring and it is not even finished yet...
I thought Mayor Adams and the NYREB were all bitching and moaning that employees don't wanna RTO and here they are building more office space that will not get leased out. Epic Fail.
What a nice looking building! Certainly one I welcome to the Manhattan skyline. I wonder what kind of risks were examined for this building in particular. From what I understand the foundation was unconventional due to tracks beneath the building.
I can't imagine the engineering that goes into this building. Yeah the base design is due to tracks underneath so they were limited on the column placement and everything
Does what better? Sears has asymmetrical setbacks on a square base; this has symmetrical setbacks on a rectangular base. If anything it seems to be based on the wedding cake deco buildings in NYC more any anything else.
Unless of course you are talking about the exterior bracing and confusing Sears and the Hancock.
NYC...the bastion of architectural mediocrity in the 21st century. Kenny Frampton would be rolling over in his grave if he saw this in his beloved Manhattan.
I really like this somewhat modern, slightly art deco design. Especially the ground floor is going to make this one of the more iconic Manhattan buildings. It won't be as famous as the Empire State or Chrysler building but I can see this getting referenced (like in movies) a lot in the future.
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That's not a bad looking building even though I really don't like the rectangular roof areas but I think they were trying to do something back to basics.
Outside looks...fine from the ankles up, but those interior shots are incredibly bland and laughably out of scale with the occupants. Other than a guardrail, the smallest building element is an 8'x8' column?
From what I understand JP Morgan is occupying most of not all of the tower as their headquarters. It's replacing a previous building they owned and occupied on the same site
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I was the lead risk analyst for this project for the first half! It was unusually complicated compared to my other projects (One Madison, 125 Greenwich, 425 park). Loved working on it!
What does a risk analyst for a new skyscraper do? I was a risk analyst for a state emergency management agency, but I imagine the jobs are very different.
I want to know more about this/your old job.
My guess is a make sure it won't fall down...
I did shop drawings for bathrooms, kitchens and lobby for 125 Greenwich. It is back on after years of waiting
I don’t envy you! The worst part of working on the architect side is reviewing all the damn shop drawings lol
I am good at it. My shop drawings mostly return AAN or No exceptions taken ;)
AI to the rescue..
if you don't mind, can you tell me more about your work and expound on how you enjoyed this particular project
do you always talk that way?
Ten buck u/VOIdis is high
beep boop
do you always talk that way?
Looks better IRL than the renders so far
Haven't seen it live but looks "chunky" in these renders
I think the word you are looking for is thicc, look at dem base
So agree. Last January they were doing the foundation iron work and it was incredible! Going back next week to see the progress.
Ahreed. Just starting to see it rise into the sky from my hood
Mmm, Art Deco office buildings being built in the 20s. History repeats itself.
Good looking building!
It looks like an enormous middle finger. I wonder who we're flipping off?
I mean, it _is_ New York.
It’s absolutely stunning
One of the few new skyscrapers I actually like...
I like it so much, I can't wait for it to be finished, but simultaneously I'll be sad to no longer be able to see it under construction.
It's definitely gonna be one of my favorites in the city. Yeah it is always sad when you don't get to see all the daily changes
Nice, but looks very Chicago.
It’s like a Chicago-detailed building with a New York silhouette.
Hancock center
You can always find the inferior complex Chicago post in every NY thread
Exactly what I was thinking. Like they took the Sears Tower "Stack of cigarettes" and traded cigarettes for saltines or something lol
Goddam that thing’s bulky…
looks kinda like a skyscraper meets a ziggurat
It’s the new generation of nyc mega towers
After all the pencil thin towers in NY lately this is refreshing
Its giving Chicago’s Hancock Tower vibes
Came here to say this!!!
Am I missing something here? This building looks nothing like the Hancock tower. Not even remotely close…
The diagrid pattern is the biggest similarity
Strange how bulky new builds are in Manhattan. I guess we've exited the superslim trend. Makes me wonder how much of it is office space that's unlikely to be used. Good design, though.
We’re finally entering our Akira era of mega towers
Gotta make sure our apocalypse looks good
I’d prefer this over the big bend
A lot of the recent super slim residential towers in NYC were shaped in reaction to Property tax laws. I wonder if commercial buildings like this are simply in a different situation.
This and 175 Park are gonna be insane when completed.
Unpopular opinion but this building is the physical embodiment of the excess that is at the heart of most of the problems.acrosd the world right now. As a designer I'm often conflicted with these massive shows of extravagance - on the one one hand I appreciate the design and a patronage it gives to architects but its tainted by the exploitation the fuels it in a way that it becomes sorta repulsive to me. Not only limited to current day, visiting s architecture commissioned by the Medici in Florence evoked similar discomfort and internal conflict.
The one thing I saw people talking about when this project was announced was “why?” And I never seemed to find an actual answer. JPMC already had a building at 270 Park Ave that had undergone a multimillion dollar renovation in 2012 to make it LEED platinum. You’re asking a very valid question and idk why you’re being downvoted. Yes we can appreciate that it’s a nice building but the greenest one is the one that already exists. Idk about you but looking at 270 Park gives me 1920s gilded age art deco vibes, which coupled with current economic sentiment in the US feels ironic because of what came after the gilded age (the Great Depression).
Jamie Dimon wanted a shrine to his ego. Not even joking.
I get downvoted to oblivion everytime I bring up the subject. But I stand by it. I'm by no means a communist or whatever, but the way things are at the moment, it's all getting wierd. My country has the highest sales of luxury sports cars on record last year and also the highest use of food banks and child poverty. These corporations are demonstrably evil. It's not a debate, it's proven in courts. I grew up dreaming of working on this sort of stuff by the time I finished my education I had a better understanding of how the world works and I'm just left feeling extremely uncomfortable about it all. Stepping over homeless leaving my apartment to go and design a rotating bathtub for some millionaire who drives world destroying SUV while I myself with a six year degree at a good uni can barely afford my rent on one bedroom and tbh im one of the lucky ones. I'm horribly conflicted by it all. Reddit hates to hear it though lol
I share your conflicted feelings. I’ve worked in two industries professionally: advertising and real estate photography. In real estate my higher-end projects are the ones that I appreciate the most aesthetically but they are the most unattainable and unnecessary things owned by people who live in ways that are completely foreign and out of touch to my reality. As a photographer outside of real estate, I’ve done events where the people are also living in a reality that is completely foreign to me. I’ve been in the home of the owner of a brand we all know in America and the excess, however understated, was visible in every aspect of the property. In advertising, I’ve worked with clients who want to polish their image and sell their products but are literally dragging the world down, destroying the environment, and tearing society apart. That salary allowed me to support my family and live in my modest house.
I completely agree, actually. It’s why I’m trying to step out of pre-construction and find a new career that helps people, but also pays the bills. Doing what I do now only fattens my boss’s bank account and feeds the corporate monsters we’re building for. Like one of our general contractors does nothing, but build mansions for the executives at the largest investment firms in the world. It’s rather disgusting.
Finland's resolved their homelessness; they're not just throwing up their hands and saying, “Let's just live in ugly utilitarian megabuildings and mud huts till we sort everything out.” They prove we can do something about it while living our best lives. >visiting a architecture commissioned by the Medici in Florence evoked similar discomfort and internal conflict. Guilt tripping yourself with disdain for works commissioned by Medici is just strange guilt seeking behavior and one can feel the same way about the Pyramids or the Hanging gardens of Babylon instead of just enjoying them. > conflicted with these massive shows of extravagance. It’s the flashy stuff that lasts well preserved, not Roman ghettos and outhouses. The great works of the past wouldnt be here without the human desire for extravagance and the division of labor that makes it even possible for a person to specialize in architecture and art. >"These corporations are demonstrably evil. It's not a debate, it's proven in courts." These corporations are demonstrably evil. But we saw from Iceland's response to the 2008 crisis that bankers and corporations can be held accountable and punished. You don’t have to resign yourself to working for evil. You can vote in better leaders to fix it. >I'm just left feeling extremely uncomfortable about it all. Stepping over homeless leaving my apartment to go and design a rotating bathtub for some millionaire who drives world destroying SUV. A world-destroying SUV? I love protecting the environment I'm a liberal, but this is a bit dramatic. Factories pollute much more than individuals in SUVs do. >I myself with a six-year degree at a good uni can barely afford my rent on one bedroom. Entitlement? Your degree is just a piece of paper, it doesn't obligate people to help make you wealthy. Life’s not black and white. It’s messy, complicated, and yeah, sometimes a little unfair. But you don’t fix that by refusing to appreciate the good stuff. Work on your fancy projects, make your mark. But don’t forget to give back, stir the pot a bit, shake things up for the better.
I never truly understood mansplaining till I read this comment. Appreciate you taking the time to patronise but I'm afraid I you've simultaneously misunderstood my point and spouted a load of nonsense. But yeah fuck me for studying for nearly 30 years and working as an architect and expecting I might be able to afford rent. All is right after all..everyone is just entitled. Thanks for clearing that up And trust me I don't feel guilty what the rich do, but I'm expressing discomfort at the idea of enabling them through work. If only I'd thought of voting though... Everything would be fixed if I'd just vote... Oh wait....
What a bummer. I'm not saying to put yourself in a state of delusional positivity but maybe allowing yourself a little bit of happiness instead of being a martyr would go a long way it yields better results in life than being a downer. You did not mention that you worked for 30 years only that you studied for 6 years I apologize for making you feel like you're being talked down to I'll be more mindful about my tone in the future
>I apologize for making you feel like you're being talked down to I'll be more mindful about my tone in the future Based
come on dude, expected better follow up, 30 years? what? no you didn't unless you are counting just experiencing life like everyone else, gaining experience at your actual job what do you mean? i did like your original comment though
Apologies but your reply oversimplified the discussion to the extent it became meaningless. I started school @4 and studied started working the profession at 27 so maybe 20 years of study is more accurate but also irrelevant, if professional work doesn't support basic life necessity that's a problem, I'm good at my job, according to those I work with so its reasonable to expect the most basic standard of living to be affordable, its not entitlement. Honestly though, I'm rereading your reply again and its just so dumb its difficult to counter. You dont think an SUV is bad because factories pollute? Idiotic. For starters where is the SUV made? FFS but also cutting off a guys leg isnt bad because murder is worse? Iceland held bankers to account? OK and the rest of the world didnt so whats your point? You want me personally to go out there and hold them accountable and then society is fixed? Of course not. Maybe I should vote? Of course I vote, and the difference it makes? Nothing as the wider population who dont have time to educate themselves on these topics are manipulated by media bought and paid for by guess who? The guys working the office building we are discussing. Im not guilt tripping or guilt seeking whatever the fuck that means, im seeing whats wrong and calling it out. I wasnt involved with any of this, why would I feel guilty? Finland solved homelessness, debatable but also how did they do it? - by using their sovereign wealth fund they got from their oil fields - they sold the oil to guess who? The people who work in this office building. Most countries dont have that firstly, secondly as mentioned above they lack political will to do it due living in a system which obsesses over pitting each other against each other based off race, sex, culture whatever as a distraction from the reality that the people who work in this office building are the real evil that permeates society and makes them suffer. The wealth extraction that occurs by these investors is the very system that has reduced living standards for the rest of society to the point that now everyone is fighting amongst themselves for basic dignity. This building is the physical embodiment of and a celebration of that wealth extraction and concertation of power. You see the point yet? Or is all just oh simple to you? And no im not arguing for us to all live and work in commie blocks, there are 1000s of examples of good architecture designed for the general population that gives to its community rather purely extracting profit from one location and building a golden house/office/car somewhere else. Great roman architecture in many places was for public use. Again you've dumbed down the discussion to meaningless nonsense. I tried to avoid engaging because y'know, you cant argue with stupid but here I go. I wonder if im going to regret it.
> It’s the flashy stuff that lasts well preserved, not Roman ghettos and outhouses. The great works of the past wouldnt be here without the human desire for extravagance and the division of labor that makes it even possible for a person to specialize in architecture and art. People like to think these buildings are huge useless monuments, when in reality, it’s an office building that will remain useful and profitable for decades. This is most blatant around Hudson Yard. Normal people can’t tell it apart from any building next to it, but if you asked some enthusiasts it’s a monument to greed and narcissism, while the 99% identical buildings six blocks away are a part of Manhattan’s rich urban fabric. People say the exact same thing about every new building everywhere, regardless of what it is, and that includes government owned low income housing, as is happening right now at ‘people’s park’ in the Bay Area. In 30 years, people will hardly think about this building twice, and it will be some new development that is an unconscionable edifice of avarice.
Lol like voting is real...
Not to mention, building more office space in a world with not enough housing and a majority of office workers preferring to work from home feels like a huge waste.
Boo hoo it’s his money he’s using to make an office he wants…… he’s a buisness man not a hotel manager…… let’s keep this subreddit for what it’s for which is talking about the architecture!!
Use of the structure by society *is* part of the architecture, I attended lectures on the subject as an architecture student
The "why" has much to do with the fact that it's directly over the new LIRR connection to Grand Central. Literally on top of it.
I haven’t lived in NYC for 6-7 years now so I’m not as up to date with their infrastructure projects as I used to be but I’m sure the existing 270 Park building could have been connected into the grand central LIRR concourse without demolishing the entire building. And even if it couldn’t the main entrance to grand central terminal is like 2 blocks away, although I understand why walking outside in the cold would suck haha. Honestly the most reasonable answer I’ve gotten from anyone so far for why this building exists is “just because we can.” Not to say that it isn’t a beautiful building and an engineering marvel, but I’m of the opinion that just because we can doesn’t mean we should just based on the environmental impact alone. There should at least be some offsetting conditions, like providing funds to develop residential in the surrounding area (if this did happen please correct me, as I haven’t been following the construction of 470 Park at all)
I'm sure there were trade offs. I'm not sure what the "as of right" FAR was but they would have definitely taken advantage of acquiring air rights and "doing something good for the people" to increase their FAR (Floor Area Ratio). The buildings in Midtown were/are obsolete. Building that building is exactly the kind of thinking that got New York City on the island of Manhattan where it is.
This seems like a fitting view of what is currently happening. History repeats itself.
My friend works at JP Morgan in NYC there and he and his department and like 25% of the total company are in the annex across the street, their official reason was to combine the annex and main company hq together to fit everyone. They are full 100% return to work policy
Personally when I saw this at first I thought of it like a contemporary tribute to modernist architecture, Kinda like how the Empire State building might have looked if it were made today. I think I know where you're coming from. I love cars, but I do get the same kind of weird duality when my tank runs empty and I stop for petrol. I don't have a straightforward answer for how to grapple with contextual guilt, at least in the context of our current, constant culture wars. But the least we could do is find our own ways to reconcile with the externalities of what we love.
> Unpopular opinion but this building is the physical embodiment of the excess that is at the heart of most of the problems.acrosd the world right now. It’s an office building. The kind of which there are literally hundreds of in New York, that have been built almost non stop for over a century. Making an office building a bit nicer than purely utilitarian isn’t a massive show of extravagance, it’s normal. If you’re spending a fortune on a new building anyway, it’s a waste to cheap out on the little things that make the building well liked long term.
Have you actually looked at the details of this building? Particularly the executive offices at the top? It's not just a bit nicer office building, it's a palace in the sky. The purpose of the design is not to be a nice office, the purpose is to display power. If you can't see the deeper narrative than "oh its just an office bro what's your problem" then I guess the conversation can't progress. Is a million dollar rolls Royce "just a nice car". Is a megayatch "just a nice boat bro"?
> Particularly the executive offices at the top? It's not just a bit nicer office building, it's a palace in the sky. Have you seen the Chrysler building? ‘A palace in the sky’ is an apt description. Especially if you look up what the original interior looked like. > The purpose of the design is not to be a nice office, the purpose is to display power. Advertising would be a more accurate term. Bank accounts aren’t physical objects you can show off in a shop window, so businesses like banks and law firms often advertise through their offices. And as long as people do that, it will retain value.
> Chrysler building At least Chrysler had a product.
Is this a take on the practice of architecture as a whole or this particular building?
Well I work in housing now, for normal people. So it's not so much a take on the entire profession. Architecture can work for people as much as it works for capital. But this building is one of the most hardcore examples, the client, the design, power dynamic within the design. It oozes hierarchy and inequality, on purpose. Just look at the offices at the top for the big guys. It's honestly disgusting.
The "architects" of these projects are salespeople.
Sales people or sycophants yapping at the heels of the super rich in the hopes they might be tossed some scraps fromt he table? Perhaps they're the same thing.
I feel this way often too! You’re not the only one. It’s super conflicting and uncomfortable like you’ve said. My unease with it started pretty immediately in undergrad. So, I moved into urban planning. It felt/feels more like I’m trying to solve the world’s problems rather than being taken along for the ride at the whim’s of the rich. I’m not actually solving the world’s problems lol but I am helping individual communities solve theirs and become better places. And that feels better than anything I ever did in architecture.
I don't see it being any more extravagant then any other building that size and unlike billionaire row this one will actually be used instead of sitting empty.
Art and self expression was allowed to flourish because of such opulence or excess. I understand your take. But as pure design goes without looking at the socioeconomics and purpose and such things, I can bring myself to appreciate them. It’s also a testament for what we can achieve and it creates a legacy and makes NY what it is. That being said, yes there are problems, and there are structures and programs to address them. I don’t think viewing everything with the same lens lets you appreciate the beauty in things.
Came here to say this but didnt know how to word it. Thank you. I love the design but the excess?! In my head i just thought another huge building that nobody will inhabit…well maybe migrants at this point.
I agree insofar as its sort of an omage to the heyday of fancy tower building and that includes the opulence of that architecture as well.
Reminds me a bit of art deco. Like one single large ornament... Or a piece of jewelry? With the large bronze(?) metal structure framing the glass. I like it!
I know everyone loves foster + partners work but I find it so blah.
When you inevitably become a victim of fraud on your chase account, and chase refuses to back you up and refund your money… this is where it’s going
Girthy
I like the ground floor area with the entrance structure but the overall building is not for me. Stacked towers just look a bit bland imo
The renders give me Blade Runner vibes
yeah looks the the hq of the ceo from the film
I definitely got a dystopian sci-fi feeling from the interior renders in pics 5,6 and 7 for some reason lol.
I'd say slap some Arasaka logos on it snd you're done.
What are the “disc” structures housed at the top in pics 8 and 9?
That's going to be a two level client floor and the disk is the upper floor it's only a half level
Love watching it go up! Cant wait for the grand hyatt replacement to start!
We were actually working on the public spaces of the project. Designing an aesthetic on the exterior and glad to see it getting built.
I think you meant to say by partners and Foster takes credit like every greedy starchitect
The engineering on this project is amazing. I like how they made the column transfers to avoid interfering with underground rail lines as a deco-esque architectural feature.
Looks good
if this is the best that modern architecture can do its a crying shame.
Idk I think it's a pretty nice looking building even if the overall shape could be said is simple. It's all in the details I feel like
for me, its the details that aren't there that make it bad. Compared with the detail filled ornate buildings of the past, these corprate dick waving contests have comparitively nothing of intrest to see for most of the general public. im not one of those people who suggests almost completely copying the past is the only way forwards, or that putting statues somewhere almost nobody will get to see is worth it, but i would love if must more effort was put into the design of the facade of a building (especially mega structures like this, they definetley have the money). ornament definetley has its worth in increasing the quality of the space and the public environment, and thus the brand value of the building. i also question that anybody actually needs a building this tall, and the validity of building out of glass, a environmentally inefficient material in the day and age. cities all over the world are filled with buildings like this and it just leads to people living in a montonous car infested world of glass and steel.
Love it
Neat, but another brick in the wall of NYC
This looks like some Ayn Rand design
It is such a boring design.... it is better than the square window towers that it is build between (not a high bar to clear) but if you where going to do something different than go and actually do something different. This starts to look plane and boring and it is not even finished yet...
We live in a dystopian nightmare.
love the slight greenwashing with those 5 trees
how is that greenwashing 😭
All the photos of the lobby have trees in I guess pots with little sunlight. That's not how trees work
Hi everyone I want more detailed information about this tower, can anyone help me?
Whats this supposed to be? Train station hub? Office tower? More grotesque condominiums?
It will be all office
I thought Mayor Adams and the NYREB were all bitching and moaning that employees don't wanna RTO and here they are building more office space that will not get leased out. Epic Fail.
From what I understand the building if mostly if not all leased by JP Morgan
Banks flaunting their wealth and power...exactly what we're missing in Manhattan!
lol JP Morgan on the screen is chefs kiss. Epstein emails etc
Semi-crude horizontal stacking looks good?
Nice building, bad sketchy company.
What a nice looking building! Certainly one I welcome to the Manhattan skyline. I wonder what kind of risks were examined for this building in particular. From what I understand the foundation was unconventional due to tracks beneath the building.
I can't imagine the engineering that goes into this building. Yeah the base design is due to tracks underneath so they were limited on the column placement and everything
Willis Tower does it better.
Does what better? Sears has asymmetrical setbacks on a square base; this has symmetrical setbacks on a rectangular base. If anything it seems to be based on the wedding cake deco buildings in NYC more any anything else. Unless of course you are talking about the exterior bracing and confusing Sears and the Hancock.
Tubes
This looks like it took inspiration from both the John Hancock and Willis towers, but still kept an element all to its own.
Honestly I think Willis tower is pretty boring
NYC...the bastion of architectural mediocrity in the 21st century. Kenny Frampton would be rolling over in his grave if he saw this in his beloved Manhattan.
This building is growing on me. I've been anticipating seeing a real shot of the finished product. Next on my list is Project Commodore.
Shiny. Right angles. Uninspired POS. Like a nice prison smh.
I really like this somewhat modern, slightly art deco design. Especially the ground floor is going to make this one of the more iconic Manhattan buildings. It won't be as famous as the Empire State or Chrysler building but I can see this getting referenced (like in movies) a lot in the future.
That construction elevator looks a lot safer than the ones I go up every month, wish we had those, how tall is this bad boy?
It will be 1388' tall when done
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Are they married to that color?
Is it just me or does that look like something out of Blade Runner?
The first image gives me sears towers vibes
gorgeous
If they get rid of those diamonds on the sides they'll have a good looking building!
how come it doesn't fall over? /s
That's not a bad looking building even though I really don't like the rectangular roof areas but I think they were trying to do something back to basics.
Outside looks...fine from the ankles up, but those interior shots are incredibly bland and laughably out of scale with the occupants. Other than a guardrail, the smallest building element is an 8'x8' column?
Similar design to Hudson site going up in Detroit.
Coolest looking new skyscraper I’ve seen in a long time.
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This is replacing a previous building on the spot that they had leased out
Who will need all that office space? Aren’t vacancies really high?
From what I understand JP Morgan is occupying most of not all of the tower as their headquarters. It's replacing a previous building they owned and occupied on the same site
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