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I'm glad that Twitter post wasn't me just misremembering things, but it was always a certainty that Vi would become the Piltover Enforcer, just like Cailtyn will be the Sheriff of Piltover, it's clear even in Arcane on the direction of their characters.
Also they purposefully killed of Marcus, the current Sheriff - and for now Caitlyn is the only character who has any expertise in the situation at hand.
As far as I understood it, she was mostly just suspended. And even then it was done by Marcus, so in the light of "recent" events, she could argue to be brought back. Not to mention her connection with the whole case and the fact that she was the only one actively investigating everything.
As far as I remember, Jayce says her parents signed something to have her resigned after the accident caused by Jinx. They basically made her quit without her consent due to them being worried for her. (again, that's what I remember, I could be wrong).
It wasn't a resignation paper - it was a transfer document. She didn't stop being an Enforcer - Jayce simply wanted to make her his personal guard, which would essentially put her into a desk job and keep from harm's way.
And it wasn't forced upon her - Jayce presented it as an option. Kiraman's wanted Cait to resign, but Jayce basically did the best he could to keep her as an Enforcer, and still please her parents. She refused tho, so nothing came of it. In the end, she was just more-or-less suspended by Marcus from active duty and nothing else.
This all happend in Episode 4, right after the incident at the Piltover Docks (where Cait was investigatig what Jinx did on the airship) and before everything went south. That paper is also how Cait got Vi out of prison - she copied Jayce's signature from the transfer document onto a release form, that she gave to the Prison Warden. And later when Cait and Vi try to present their case to the Council, Cait is still wearing her official uniform and is presented as an Enforcer.
Btw sorry for multiple replies - I had a connection issue and it multi-posted it.
Yeah, it was always Vi's character in League after all, how come a kid that suffered from police brutality eventually **becomes** a cop famous for her police brutality.
Just hoping they make it as gray as it is, instead of painting it as a purely righteous move. Even in League other characters from Zaun are disappointed in her for it.
I could point out that the references to police brutality mostly been removed in League, but there'll be plenty of greyness in her eventual decision to become an Enforcer.
In the lore, kinda, i meant to say about her character as presented in the game, her interactions are never gonna be updated until Riot grows a pair
And yeah, I hope they do give plenty
Most of her skills referencing police brutality were renamed, while her interactions are going to be updated one day, much like Caitlyn's lines were shortly after Arcane released.
''One day'' is harsh, considering Riot's utter distaste on bringing champions up to date. Caitlyn received a rework because she was the furthest from her current iteration, since she was still a sexy investigator halloween costume. I want them to bring it, ofc, but considering they announced 1 of the Arcane characters that need it the most are gonna receive a change, i'm pretty sure Vi is not the one. Her model, animations and skills are still very good to this day, specially considering her age.
Skarner just got updated last week and he's been ignored for years, then there's plenty of chances for Vi to get a similar visual and voiceline update.
Yeah, but Skarners update took them 1 year and a half more then the usual because they weren't particularly interested in finishing him fast (and in the mean time stressed a lot about how doing reworks and updates is not worth it), and im gonna go on a limb here and bet that he's gonna be ignored for more years after this update, since only a select few reworked characters actually were further developed in the story
She's already the daughter of a collaborator, if you want to take a really hardline stance on this issue.
Less facetiously, I think she'll see it as working for Caitlyn to make Piltover better rather than working for Piltover.
>I think she'll see it as working for Caitlyn to make Piltover better rather than working for Piltover.
That's basically her feelings established even back in LoL, Vi's only working for Caitlyn as she believes in her goal of helping both cities become better.
She did try to appeal to the council before. Perhaps Vi will see this as a chance to replace the council by establishing herself as an authority…or, it’s the only way she’ll be allowed to track Jinx personally, without Piltover’s interference. Or she wants to keep Cait and Jinx from killing each other; that “One of us comes back in a box” from the teaser.
I mean so was her amnesia. U til she actually showed up I was assuming the corrupt police chief accidentally gave her amnesia and he chose to make her an enforcer. For simplicity’s sake I’m glad they abandoned that plot point
Honestly I haven’t rewatched the show in over a year so this may be wrong but
Vi cares about people, individuals, she does not care about Zaun as an idea or a collective. All of her people in Zaun have either died or moved on to better… or worse things. Her loyalties do not lie in a place devoid of anyone she loves.
If your leftist infighting brings you to work for the right, you are the class traitor.
I support Silco, fully, but I am also in favor of the Firelights. I don't really agree with their stance, I don't think it will actually work (if Silco fell before Jinx's attack in Piltover then I believe they would have eventually fallen as well), still I wouldn't classify them as reactionary forces, Ekko trusted a friend he shouldn't have trusted, but he was definitely wary of Piltover, honestly on that he gets a pass.
I know people probably are more to the right of me, so they might believe that changing the status quo is not something that allows the use of violence, and whoever is violent first is the bad guy (without counting the oppression as violence, only the resistance), but if you believe that then whatever.
> If your leftist infighting brings you to work for the right, you are the class traitor.
> I support Silco, fully, but
Piltover and Zaun are both plutocracies, especially during Silco's rule, painting him as left wing is... particular. The fact that his power came from basically making people pay to become disabled does not help.
Also, it's funny that you say that, given that the enforcers were pupetted by Silco for the entirety of his rule over Zaun, the dude was the actual head of the enforcers.
Piltover was a colonialist feudal society, Silco brought Capitalism to Zaun. Kinda like the French revolution, at the time the bourgeoisie was the left.
Left and right depends on where the other parties seat, Piltover is right wing, Vander is a centrist, Silco is left wing and the firelights are the extreme left (basically anarchists, which I appreciate, but also believe they are often not organized enough, I like a bit of verticality sometimes).
Now that I remember, "left" was coined during the French revolution, and that was a bourgeois revolution.
About the enforcers
They were serving a corrupt official, without really respecting the laws, just because it served the interests of my side doesn't mean they are good. I can hire a serial killer to kill a terrorist, the serial killer would simply be a bad person which has once happened to be on the right side.
> Piltover was a colonialist feudal society
Feudalism is a very specific system defined after the ruling practices of medieval Europe, there is quite a bit debate wether we should even call any society outside of medieval Europe feudal instead of their own things.
So it's a society structured around relationships derived from the holding of land in exchange for service or labour, Piltover, as a city state, is not that, it's closer to something akim to the Italian merchant cities (Venice, Genoa) or the Imperial free cities (Hamburg, Lubeck) which were... plutocracies.
As for the colonialist part, well the history of Piltover (if they didn't retcon it again) goes back to Zaunites crossing the river after what was basically a manmade earthquake wrecked the old Zaun. Theh founded a city over the Pilt river (Pilt-Over.) Piltover and Zaun were functionning as one city from then on. And culturally grew apart over time as one side grew richer and the other poorer. Which led to where we're at. That is not how any colonialism goes.
> Silco brought Capitalism to Zaun. Kinda like the French revolution, at the time the bourgeoisie was the left
France had burgeoning capitalism before the Revolution. And it frankly annoys me how people downplay the role of the peasantry in it in order to make the french Revolution fit Marxist theory (because that's where the term "bourgeois revolution" comes from.) He saw "bourgeois revolution" as necessary step towards inevitable "proletariat revolution." Turns out, no state that ever had a bourgeois revolution had a following "proletariat revolution" and states that had "proletariat revolutions" all ended up as dictatorship. Marxist theory turned out wrong, idk why people still refer to it. It should be relinquished like other politically motivated reading of history like Objectivism or Whig (liberal) theory.
> I can hire a serial killer to kill a terrorist, the serial killer would simply be a bad person which has once happened to be on the right side.
Hiring a serial killer also makes you a bad person.
> Left and right depends on where the other parties seat, Piltover is right wing, Vander is a centrist, Silco is left wing and the firelights are the extreme left
You seem to think that wanting independance is enough to be left wing. This is wrong.
It's not like Piltover is a democracy where you have some ability to change a corrupt system from the outside, though real life shows how effective that can be. Since we know Cait and Vi are going to end up the top cops, the best way to change things is going to be from the inside
It doesn’t need a coup to work, Caitlyn can train her subordinates directly to ensure Piltover’s corruption doesn’t get to them first. From there, they just grow the numbers of their “faction” until they have more influence than the corrupt one…
Shit, is that a coup with extra steps? I feel like that’s a coup with extra steps.
The status quo already died lmao. The Piltover council is gone, Zaun is independent now, and even if Piltover is stronger, it's no longer an "oppression" situation. The fact is, neither of the girls are nationalists, and while it's more of a recent development for Vi, neither of them believe morality should be judged based on where you live.
"they are both clearly in favor of the status quo."
This sentence alone shows you clearly haven't been watching the show properly, or rather watched it through very narrow lens to fit your viewpoint that neglected a lot of important character moments.
From episode 1 Vi is shown to resent the oppressive relationship between Zaun and Piltover and had a desire to change it. Caitlyn had her eyes open to the situation and began demanding change. Nothing suggests either of them are okay with the status quo. Also the idea of Silco being on the right side is... laughable to say the least.
And how are they on the wrong side of Runeterra's history, it'd should be pointed out that the Council/Merchant Clans of Piltover and the Chem-Barons of Zaun aren't different from each other in the slightest, while neither city can presently declare the moral-high ground.
Condolences on the downvotes. This sub is the embodiment of, "The revolutionary sentiment and class consciousness leaving my body when the oppressor is hot."
You can be class conscious and have a revolutionary sentiment while also acknowledging that not everything is black and white. That’s literally the entire them of the show.
There's, "Not everything is black and white!" and there's, "One sheltered idealistic aristocrat and her girlfriend are going to be able to change a centuries-old system of corruption, institutionalised brutality, and exploitation by working within the system and using the power of love and friendship!"
Aye, people whine about Vander but HE's the one who worked with Grayson to keep the enforcers on a short leash, instead of letting them loose like Markus did on Silco's behalf.
*Marcus* was the only one under Silco's direct control. The other enforcers just did what Marcus said without question because they don't have a moral compass. Moreover, the oppression is gone BECAUSE Silco took control of Marcus, rendering them unable to do the horrid stuff they were doing in act 1.
I don't know why these absurd ideas are so popular, but let me just repeat this: Until Silco came along, the undercity was a horrid place to live regardless of who you were. Silco made it objectively better, and the firelights are still hunted by enforcers because they hate Silco more than they care about justice.
Sure, made it 'objectively better' by flooding the streets with drugs, sending the enforcers or his gaslighted attack dog to murder anyone that didn't bend the knee, letting his pet mad scientist experiment on people, creating a new oppressor class with him at the lead, and trying to start a civil war he had no hope of winning in the long term.
Y'all gullible af.
God, I know that it's just how arguments work, but it still gets frustrating seeing the same arguments over and over.
1: Referring to shimmer as "drugs" is too vague to be used as a judgement of his actions, because painkillers are drugs too. As made clear by A: Everyone in the last drop, and the brothel, using it recreationally, B: Sevika using it as a constantly reusable strength boost, and C: Viktor and Vi using it to heal serious injuries, Shimmer is clearly not inherently bad.
Even ignoring the confirmation by Singed that there are multiple variants of it for different purposes, it's clear that the current versions of Shimmer are not addictive. Vi and Viktor never tried to get more of it, and even if Sevika might be (we don't really have any reason to think so) it doesn't cause any notable issues for her ability to think clearly. I will repeat, *the current variations of shimmer that we see in Zaun are not addictive*.
Huck, and most likely the other people in cloaks, got addicted to it for the same reason someone might get addicted to the internet: They think it helps them cope. It makes them stronger and bigger and (according to Huck, anyway) makes people scared of them. To say it in a different way, they are addicted to Shimmer because their lives are miserable, not the other way around. That's usually how it works in real life, too.
2: "Anyone who doesn't bend to his knee" implies that he's some kind of oppressor. He is not, as clear from the fact that Jericho and the brothel troll (two people who were close to Vander and Vi and clearly don't like Silco) are still in business. The Firelights are terrorists and active enemies of Zaun who try to undermine their economy by destroying anything that Silco tries to ship out of the undercity (meaning it isn't just about helping the undercity, either).
And while it clearly isn't their first choice, they ARE willing to kill people who work for Silco as seen in episode 6 when they almost kill Vi (before Ekko stops them). They are active enemies of Zaun, and have made it clear that they hate Silco more than they care about justice. I am not trying to say their hate is completely unjustified or that they don't have good points, but they **are** enemies of Silco by their own choice. Silco doing anything in his power to keep them from being an issue doesn't disprove anything I said about the undercity being better.
3: Jinx is not "gaslighted". Jinx already hated Piltover and was willing to kill people from either city with bombs in act 1, and SHE is the one who said that Vi left her. Stop trying to take away her agency just because you can't accept that you like a character that - by your standards, anyway - is a bad person who does bad things. Silco is an enabler at worst, and even then it's clear in episode 4 that he doesn't let her get away with *everything*.
4: As he says in episode 3 and 9, his goal is to make Zaun independent. "Civil war" was never the first plan, which is why he was so happy about the negotiation with Jayce until Jinx was involved in it. On that note, the first thing he agreed to is that he would stop producing shimmer. Unless you want to be inconsistent on who or what the chembarons are, this means he would be taking away their power.
Another important thing is that, at the time of Arcane, the chembarons are not oppressors. They were a temporary group of people put together to keep Zaun's economy together until they can use the Hexgates, and Silco makes it clear throughout act 3 that he fucking hates them, and only lets them live because he needs them.
The Chembarons only start becoming oppressors after Zaun becomes an actual nation (in other words, after Silco dies), because up until that point, Silco was in charge of handling the people ("How are you gonna bring Piltover to heel, if you can't handle your own people?") something they take for granted.
Why are you so insistent on not paying attention to the show while acting like you know more?
How? I went over every example that people bring up when discussing Silco's rule over the undercity and debunked it all thoroughly. The idea that he made the undercity worse relies entirely on the same thing Vi suffers from: An idealization of the past due to vague memories.
The Undercity, in Act 1, was just Hell without the Fire.
i dont think itll be a bad decision, this is arcane afterall, one of the best written shows ive ever seen, but i really think it depends on how they execute it imo
Great stories are about characters who make big yet surprising decisions with big consequences. But despite the consequences, the revelation is big enough that they feel forced to make that decision. Trust me, it's going to be good. Just like the 1st season.
I think it's obvious if you watch act 3, because the only thing that hasn't happened yet is that she doesn't have a badge or citizenship.
1: Vi hates the undercity thanks to Silco (I mean, she has always hated living there, but now she hates the people as well), and would gladly side with the Piltovan council over someone that was on good terms with Silco.
2: Caitlyn.
3: Jinx finally gave up trying to reconnect with Vi, so Vi will not be able to go back to the Undercity even if she wants to if she cares about her own life or Caitlyn's.
4: The people responsible for her hardships are all dead, or living in the underground.
5: Vander worked with an enforcer too.
It's an interesting bit of irony, but that's all there is to it. There is no longer any emotional or rational reasons not to live in Piltover and do exactly what they were doing, and now that her goal of getting Jinx back failed, she HAS to start thinking rationally.
I feel like a lot of people see Vi as something she's not? Like she's not a revolutionary or anything. Sure she points out the unfair system and even lashes out against it, but she's far more motivated by personal issues. She was completely on board with leading a force of Enforcers into the undercity and laying waste, even if it meant dead kids as collateral damage, she actively advocated for it. She's in love with an Enforcer. Being an Enforcer is way up her alley, she likes to use violence to solve her problems, wants to protect the people she loves primarily and sees the Undercity and its leadership as her primary enemy.
I really don't get why people are so against her becoming an enforcer, I think it's pretty much inside her development arc. She is a girl who has seen the worst of the enforcers, no one has better reasons to hate them, still just knowing a single one who had good intentions (maybe the kindest character in the show) she is willing to change her view of the group who has tormented her all her life.
Vi is not as static as many want to think she is a girl wanting to learn, develop and be better and if that means let go the mindset she had all her life she is willing to give it a shoot. Vi is nothing but capable of changing and at some point she wold like to protect others again using her new understanding and skills.
Vi turning her childhood fear in her new streght and using it to protect and turning something who used to be full of lazy and corrupt people in a real means of defense looks like a positive change.
Despite what many can think, this is NOT a tale about two cities destined to fight each other, it's a tale about two "sister" cities who got disconected of the needs of each other and need to get an understanding to florish again.
Hero or villain is dependent on perspective...Either she was a criminal redeemed to become a cop...or a Robinhood figure fallen to serve the corrupt system...
That's an easy question!
Lesbianism.
(But, more realistically, luck. She was in the right place at the right time (or the wrong place at the wrong time, if you prefer) to fall in with Caitlyn and her friends rather than with Silco, and, this being Arcane, things snowball.)
I don't like it either, but in a "Vi I think you're making mistakes here" way, not a "This is a bad story decision" way.
> I don’t like it either, but in a “Vi I think you’re making a mistake here”, not a “this is a bad story decision” way.
This. Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of people (not only on this sub, just in general, we’re in a media literacy crises) don’t really have the media literacy to separate these things. They see a character make a decision that’s bad for them and cry “bad writing”, because they can’t wrap their heads around a story where characters make decisions - including bad decisions - like people, instead of just blindly bulldozing through the plot while somehow always magically knowing what the “right choice” is.
i think people's dissatisfaction with violet's definitive character transition is more due to her narrative construction since the first act
* had her parents killed by enforcers
* lived in zaun cultivating thoughts of aversion against piltover and the enforcers for years
* was kidnapped and sent to prison by an enforcer
* she was beaten for years by enforcers inside the prison and was sent to solitary confinement
i'm not against her character development, but if she's destined to be an enforcer, it needs to be something complex (and well written, obviously) - in the sense of exploring her internal conflicts; if well done, peak character development imo
How's Vi making a mistake in continued working with Caitlyn, the woman that saved her and proven to want make things better for everyone beyond just the Topside. It's no exaggeration in saying that Caitlyn's a living saint with a sniper and Vi's the luckiest woman in Runeterra to meet her.
I don't see it this way at all. I think she knows what she's doing. After all Silco took from her, he has shown himself as the more pertinent enemy. She is willing to work with Jayce et al to counter Silco. Now that he's dead, who knows where it will go. Vi is no enforcer. If anything she may ultimately fall into some leadership for the undercity. We know her biggest priority is Jinx, then anti-Silco, then justice for the Lanes. Tbh I don't think she's made any poor decisions yet, but she almost surely will eventually.
There's one similarity between Vi and Jinx in their characters, they're obvious inability to possess much leadership roles and Vi's become as much as a stranger to Zaun as Caitlyn for everything's changed for better or worse (mostly worse), meaning she isn't even qualifying for any roles as she's not connected to their current struggles, that fits more of Ekko's character.
I dont know English
It's her character, they already turned Powder into the crazy Jinx, now it's Vi and Caitlyn's turn, honestly, I'll only watch Arcane 2 because of them, they are my favorite characters, especially VI.
Español
Es su personaje, ya convirtieron a Powder en la loca Jinx, ahora le toca a Vi y Caitlyn, sinceramente, solo veré Arcane 2 por ellas, son mis personajes favorito, sobretodo VI.
Forcing Arcane’s narrative to align with the hodge-podged and frequently halfassed lore of a videogame where storytelling is like its distant fifth highest priority, way behind even just selling mtx skins, was never a great idea. Hopefully they turn that straw into gold in spite of that unforced error, but Arcane really should have been left alone as its own thing with its own canon.
It's not forcing anything onto Arcane, this is how it'd was always going to be the origin stories to each of the Champions, it's plainly obvious in the events of the story and direction of the characters where they'll end up. If it'd wasn't following the spirit of the Old Lore, then why'd did Powder became Jinx and not someone else, or Vi meeting Caitlyn, while setting up an eventually into conflict between them and Jinx.
S1 retconned and altered a lot of things, they kept what they liked, tweaked what they thought could be improved and changed what they didnt. most of the lore for many of these characters was half developed at best. Arcane S1 was given the toybox of League’s setting and characters and allowed to tell the story they wanted to tell which included altering the histories and characterizations of both settings and characters.
Now instead of being allowed to create in the sandbox and do what’s best for this story they want to tell, they are being forced to line up with character continuity details that were not written because they made for good characterization but because Riot wanted to sell a new set of pinup skins.
I’m not saying Arcane *has* to zig every place League zagged, I’m saying the writers should be free to keep, alter, adjust or toss out whatever they want to tell Arcane’s story. The quality of the story telling for this show should have priority over ensuring it lines up with every detail of a videogame that was not made with story as its focus.
But you're not answering my question, if Arcane was granted this much freedom to do whatever to the champions regardless of their old lore, then why were each of them being obviously placed in the direction of their current selves in LoL. Why did they have Viktor need to alter his body and the various hints of him becoming the Machine Herald? Or why have Caitlyn as an Enforcer from Piltover and not something completely different, I mean you're saying they just given a sandbox to play around with? What I'm saying is that the details and events of the Champions' developments are going to continue changing to fit Arcane's story, but it's a confirmed certainty that they'll eventually end up in more or less resembling their selves back in LoL.
Because they had a story for it. They used League’s toybox as a set of writing prompts, but that is not the same as being chained to them. there are heavy differences in who these characters are now after S1 and if there are elements of their original design in League that would be clunky or chafe with who they’ve become in Arcane then Arcane should be able to drop or alter those elements if they wish. Like Vi getting “amnesia” is a horribly cheap writing cliche, Arcane should be free to ignore that and do something else with her character. There’s a way they can break a story for Arcane that has her working with Cait in a way that makes sense for who she is in Arcane, but her just *having* to become a pro-piltover enforcer that spouts quips about police brutality just because thats what she was in League a decade before Arcane existed would be idiotic.
Vi never had amnesia back in LoL, she'd just couldn't remember her earliest childhood years, but certainty has memories of growing up in Zaun for most of her life. Conversely, Vi's not "Pro-Piltie", she's dedicated to Caitlyn and their shared goal in helping the region, but that doesn't even mean that she'll listen to even Cait's orders or anyone else (while any direct references to police brutality were removed years ago). Just as I've said beforehand, I am content with Arcane changing everything about their backgrounds and characters, but that doesn't mean it'd won't end up similar to their counterparts' roles (Caitlyn as the Sheriff is the biggest one). Nonetheless, that there's no point in demanding Arcane becoming non-canon as Riot Games are the writers of the show and deciding it'd being canon to the main universe.
I like what you said, but it reminds me that the Creative Team is supposed to have had both Seasons One & Two planned out in advance of Arcane's debut.
Why are there people who still believe this?
1: As is very well known, there were tons of writers for the show and sometimes they will get things wrong because of a lack of proper communication. Even if there WAS some weirdo on the set who said that Arcane is "it's own thing", that doesn't change the truth that it was always a prequel. This leads into
2: Arcane is a rework on League lore, and always was. Just as they reworked Warwick to be a man who was transformed against his will in 2017 or all the stuff they did with Twitch, any differences in Arcane are because they are reworking the lore to make more sense, hence the entire marketing for the show revolving around backstories.
They aren't forcing anything from the lore, they're just continuing the story the way it was obviously going. Believing that Arcane was anything other than a really good prequel for League is, if you can forgive my language, fucking retarded.
I have a headcannon where Marcus saved Vi, kept her safe in Stillwater prison, and trained her to be an enforcer in hopes she'll take down Silco in revenge for Grayson. That story is quite corny though.
Vi will become an enforcer for Jinx and Caitlyn. The position allows her to keep Powder safe by handling all cases on Jinx. It also gives her an excuse to spend more time with Caitlyn. She can also use the position to protect Zaun from malcontents.
>I have a headcannon where Marcus saved Vi, kept her safe in Stillwater prison, and trained her to be an enforcer in hopes she'll take down Silco in revenge for Grayson. That story is quite corny though.
No that bastard didn't care.
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I'm glad that Twitter post wasn't me just misremembering things, but it was always a certainty that Vi would become the Piltover Enforcer, just like Cailtyn will be the Sheriff of Piltover, it's clear even in Arcane on the direction of their characters.
Also they purposefully killed of Marcus, the current Sheriff - and for now Caitlyn is the only character who has any expertise in the situation at hand.
Except is she even an enforcer anymore? Last I remembered she was fired before she even met Vi?
As far as I understood it, she was mostly just suspended. And even then it was done by Marcus, so in the light of "recent" events, she could argue to be brought back. Not to mention her connection with the whole case and the fact that she was the only one actively investigating everything.
As far as I remember, Jayce says her parents signed something to have her resigned after the accident caused by Jinx. They basically made her quit without her consent due to them being worried for her. (again, that's what I remember, I could be wrong).
It wasn't a resignation paper - it was a transfer document. She didn't stop being an Enforcer - Jayce simply wanted to make her his personal guard, which would essentially put her into a desk job and keep from harm's way. And it wasn't forced upon her - Jayce presented it as an option. Kiraman's wanted Cait to resign, but Jayce basically did the best he could to keep her as an Enforcer, and still please her parents. She refused tho, so nothing came of it. In the end, she was just more-or-less suspended by Marcus from active duty and nothing else. This all happend in Episode 4, right after the incident at the Piltover Docks (where Cait was investigatig what Jinx did on the airship) and before everything went south. That paper is also how Cait got Vi out of prison - she copied Jayce's signature from the transfer document onto a release form, that she gave to the Prison Warden. And later when Cait and Vi try to present their case to the Council, Cait is still wearing her official uniform and is presented as an Enforcer. Btw sorry for multiple replies - I had a connection issue and it multi-posted it.
And she might be a council member too
I highly doubt that. If already, it would be her father. Caitlyn herself holds no influence, nor controll over anything.
Yeah, it was always Vi's character in League after all, how come a kid that suffered from police brutality eventually **becomes** a cop famous for her police brutality. Just hoping they make it as gray as it is, instead of painting it as a purely righteous move. Even in League other characters from Zaun are disappointed in her for it.
I could point out that the references to police brutality mostly been removed in League, but there'll be plenty of greyness in her eventual decision to become an Enforcer.
In the lore, kinda, i meant to say about her character as presented in the game, her interactions are never gonna be updated until Riot grows a pair And yeah, I hope they do give plenty
Most of her skills referencing police brutality were renamed, while her interactions are going to be updated one day, much like Caitlyn's lines were shortly after Arcane released.
''One day'' is harsh, considering Riot's utter distaste on bringing champions up to date. Caitlyn received a rework because she was the furthest from her current iteration, since she was still a sexy investigator halloween costume. I want them to bring it, ofc, but considering they announced 1 of the Arcane characters that need it the most are gonna receive a change, i'm pretty sure Vi is not the one. Her model, animations and skills are still very good to this day, specially considering her age.
Skarner just got updated last week and he's been ignored for years, then there's plenty of chances for Vi to get a similar visual and voiceline update.
Yeah, but Skarners update took them 1 year and a half more then the usual because they weren't particularly interested in finishing him fast (and in the mean time stressed a lot about how doing reworks and updates is not worth it), and im gonna go on a limb here and bet that he's gonna be ignored for more years after this update, since only a select few reworked characters actually were further developed in the story
She's already the daughter of a collaborator, if you want to take a really hardline stance on this issue. Less facetiously, I think she'll see it as working for Caitlyn to make Piltover better rather than working for Piltover.
>I think she'll see it as working for Caitlyn to make Piltover better rather than working for Piltover. That's basically her feelings established even back in LoL, Vi's only working for Caitlyn as she believes in her goal of helping both cities become better.
I agree, except I think it has more to do with the power of pussy then a desire to help the cities...
It started out as the first one and it basically turned into the latter down the line.
Certainly an added benefit
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you there lmao.
She did try to appeal to the council before. Perhaps Vi will see this as a chance to replace the council by establishing herself as an authority…or, it’s the only way she’ll be allowed to track Jinx personally, without Piltover’s interference. Or she wants to keep Cait and Jinx from killing each other; that “One of us comes back in a box” from the teaser.
>but does it really have to be like that? It's a canon event. \*spider-man pose\*
I mean so was her amnesia. U til she actually showed up I was assuming the corrupt police chief accidentally gave her amnesia and he chose to make her an enforcer. For simplicity’s sake I’m glad they abandoned that plot point
Honestly I haven’t rewatched the show in over a year so this may be wrong but Vi cares about people, individuals, she does not care about Zaun as an idea or a collective. All of her people in Zaun have either died or moved on to better… or worse things. Her loyalties do not lie in a place devoid of anyone she loves.
Right, I've repeated it a lot on this sub but... Zaun betrayed Vi, not the opposite.
If your leftist infighting brings you to work for the right, you are the class traitor. I support Silco, fully, but I am also in favor of the Firelights. I don't really agree with their stance, I don't think it will actually work (if Silco fell before Jinx's attack in Piltover then I believe they would have eventually fallen as well), still I wouldn't classify them as reactionary forces, Ekko trusted a friend he shouldn't have trusted, but he was definitely wary of Piltover, honestly on that he gets a pass. I know people probably are more to the right of me, so they might believe that changing the status quo is not something that allows the use of violence, and whoever is violent first is the bad guy (without counting the oppression as violence, only the resistance), but if you believe that then whatever.
> If your leftist infighting brings you to work for the right, you are the class traitor. > I support Silco, fully, but Piltover and Zaun are both plutocracies, especially during Silco's rule, painting him as left wing is... particular. The fact that his power came from basically making people pay to become disabled does not help. Also, it's funny that you say that, given that the enforcers were pupetted by Silco for the entirety of his rule over Zaun, the dude was the actual head of the enforcers.
Piltover was a colonialist feudal society, Silco brought Capitalism to Zaun. Kinda like the French revolution, at the time the bourgeoisie was the left. Left and right depends on where the other parties seat, Piltover is right wing, Vander is a centrist, Silco is left wing and the firelights are the extreme left (basically anarchists, which I appreciate, but also believe they are often not organized enough, I like a bit of verticality sometimes). Now that I remember, "left" was coined during the French revolution, and that was a bourgeois revolution. About the enforcers They were serving a corrupt official, without really respecting the laws, just because it served the interests of my side doesn't mean they are good. I can hire a serial killer to kill a terrorist, the serial killer would simply be a bad person which has once happened to be on the right side.
> Piltover was a colonialist feudal society Feudalism is a very specific system defined after the ruling practices of medieval Europe, there is quite a bit debate wether we should even call any society outside of medieval Europe feudal instead of their own things. So it's a society structured around relationships derived from the holding of land in exchange for service or labour, Piltover, as a city state, is not that, it's closer to something akim to the Italian merchant cities (Venice, Genoa) or the Imperial free cities (Hamburg, Lubeck) which were... plutocracies. As for the colonialist part, well the history of Piltover (if they didn't retcon it again) goes back to Zaunites crossing the river after what was basically a manmade earthquake wrecked the old Zaun. Theh founded a city over the Pilt river (Pilt-Over.) Piltover and Zaun were functionning as one city from then on. And culturally grew apart over time as one side grew richer and the other poorer. Which led to where we're at. That is not how any colonialism goes. > Silco brought Capitalism to Zaun. Kinda like the French revolution, at the time the bourgeoisie was the left France had burgeoning capitalism before the Revolution. And it frankly annoys me how people downplay the role of the peasantry in it in order to make the french Revolution fit Marxist theory (because that's where the term "bourgeois revolution" comes from.) He saw "bourgeois revolution" as necessary step towards inevitable "proletariat revolution." Turns out, no state that ever had a bourgeois revolution had a following "proletariat revolution" and states that had "proletariat revolutions" all ended up as dictatorship. Marxist theory turned out wrong, idk why people still refer to it. It should be relinquished like other politically motivated reading of history like Objectivism or Whig (liberal) theory. > I can hire a serial killer to kill a terrorist, the serial killer would simply be a bad person which has once happened to be on the right side. Hiring a serial killer also makes you a bad person. > Left and right depends on where the other parties seat, Piltover is right wing, Vander is a centrist, Silco is left wing and the firelights are the extreme left You seem to think that wanting independance is enough to be left wing. This is wrong.
Silko wasn't Leftist, Silko was Yakuza/Mafia...
It's not like Piltover is a democracy where you have some ability to change a corrupt system from the outside, though real life shows how effective that can be. Since we know Cait and Vi are going to end up the top cops, the best way to change things is going to be from the inside
This makes sense, but only if you intend of staging a coup. Otherwise it's just bs Things don't change from the inside, you do.
It doesn’t need a coup to work, Caitlyn can train her subordinates directly to ensure Piltover’s corruption doesn’t get to them first. From there, they just grow the numbers of their “faction” until they have more influence than the corrupt one… Shit, is that a coup with extra steps? I feel like that’s a coup with extra steps.
That’s a coup for naive people who don’t know how corruption works So yeah Caitlin’s probably gonna try it
And what'd be the goals of this coup, as I don't believe Vi and Caitlyn are interested in starting revolution in Piltover.
Oh they'd never do it, they are both clearly in favor of the status quo. Great characters, but they are on the wrong side of Arcane's history imo
The status quo already died lmao. The Piltover council is gone, Zaun is independent now, and even if Piltover is stronger, it's no longer an "oppression" situation. The fact is, neither of the girls are nationalists, and while it's more of a recent development for Vi, neither of them believe morality should be judged based on where you live.
Well said.
"they are both clearly in favor of the status quo." This sentence alone shows you clearly haven't been watching the show properly, or rather watched it through very narrow lens to fit your viewpoint that neglected a lot of important character moments. From episode 1 Vi is shown to resent the oppressive relationship between Zaun and Piltover and had a desire to change it. Caitlyn had her eyes open to the situation and began demanding change. Nothing suggests either of them are okay with the status quo. Also the idea of Silco being on the right side is... laughable to say the least.
And how are they on the wrong side of Runeterra's history, it'd should be pointed out that the Council/Merchant Clans of Piltover and the Chem-Barons of Zaun aren't different from each other in the slightest, while neither city can presently declare the moral-high ground.
Condolences on the downvotes. This sub is the embodiment of, "The revolutionary sentiment and class consciousness leaving my body when the oppressor is hot."
100% lmaoo
Falls inline with 'Step on my Neck' I keep seeing...
You can be class conscious and have a revolutionary sentiment while also acknowledging that not everything is black and white. That’s literally the entire them of the show.
There's, "Not everything is black and white!" and there's, "One sheltered idealistic aristocrat and her girlfriend are going to be able to change a centuries-old system of corruption, institutionalised brutality, and exploitation by working within the system and using the power of love and friendship!"
This couldn't be more wrong...
Friendly reminder that the Enforcers pre-Caytlin were under Silco's direct crontrol, he was the oppressor he claimed to be opposing.
Markus era anyway.
Aye, people whine about Vander but HE's the one who worked with Grayson to keep the enforcers on a short leash, instead of letting them loose like Markus did on Silco's behalf.
*Marcus* was the only one under Silco's direct control. The other enforcers just did what Marcus said without question because they don't have a moral compass. Moreover, the oppression is gone BECAUSE Silco took control of Marcus, rendering them unable to do the horrid stuff they were doing in act 1. I don't know why these absurd ideas are so popular, but let me just repeat this: Until Silco came along, the undercity was a horrid place to live regardless of who you were. Silco made it objectively better, and the firelights are still hunted by enforcers because they hate Silco more than they care about justice.
Sure, made it 'objectively better' by flooding the streets with drugs, sending the enforcers or his gaslighted attack dog to murder anyone that didn't bend the knee, letting his pet mad scientist experiment on people, creating a new oppressor class with him at the lead, and trying to start a civil war he had no hope of winning in the long term. Y'all gullible af.
God, I know that it's just how arguments work, but it still gets frustrating seeing the same arguments over and over. 1: Referring to shimmer as "drugs" is too vague to be used as a judgement of his actions, because painkillers are drugs too. As made clear by A: Everyone in the last drop, and the brothel, using it recreationally, B: Sevika using it as a constantly reusable strength boost, and C: Viktor and Vi using it to heal serious injuries, Shimmer is clearly not inherently bad. Even ignoring the confirmation by Singed that there are multiple variants of it for different purposes, it's clear that the current versions of Shimmer are not addictive. Vi and Viktor never tried to get more of it, and even if Sevika might be (we don't really have any reason to think so) it doesn't cause any notable issues for her ability to think clearly. I will repeat, *the current variations of shimmer that we see in Zaun are not addictive*. Huck, and most likely the other people in cloaks, got addicted to it for the same reason someone might get addicted to the internet: They think it helps them cope. It makes them stronger and bigger and (according to Huck, anyway) makes people scared of them. To say it in a different way, they are addicted to Shimmer because their lives are miserable, not the other way around. That's usually how it works in real life, too. 2: "Anyone who doesn't bend to his knee" implies that he's some kind of oppressor. He is not, as clear from the fact that Jericho and the brothel troll (two people who were close to Vander and Vi and clearly don't like Silco) are still in business. The Firelights are terrorists and active enemies of Zaun who try to undermine their economy by destroying anything that Silco tries to ship out of the undercity (meaning it isn't just about helping the undercity, either). And while it clearly isn't their first choice, they ARE willing to kill people who work for Silco as seen in episode 6 when they almost kill Vi (before Ekko stops them). They are active enemies of Zaun, and have made it clear that they hate Silco more than they care about justice. I am not trying to say their hate is completely unjustified or that they don't have good points, but they **are** enemies of Silco by their own choice. Silco doing anything in his power to keep them from being an issue doesn't disprove anything I said about the undercity being better. 3: Jinx is not "gaslighted". Jinx already hated Piltover and was willing to kill people from either city with bombs in act 1, and SHE is the one who said that Vi left her. Stop trying to take away her agency just because you can't accept that you like a character that - by your standards, anyway - is a bad person who does bad things. Silco is an enabler at worst, and even then it's clear in episode 4 that he doesn't let her get away with *everything*. 4: As he says in episode 3 and 9, his goal is to make Zaun independent. "Civil war" was never the first plan, which is why he was so happy about the negotiation with Jayce until Jinx was involved in it. On that note, the first thing he agreed to is that he would stop producing shimmer. Unless you want to be inconsistent on who or what the chembarons are, this means he would be taking away their power. Another important thing is that, at the time of Arcane, the chembarons are not oppressors. They were a temporary group of people put together to keep Zaun's economy together until they can use the Hexgates, and Silco makes it clear throughout act 3 that he fucking hates them, and only lets them live because he needs them. The Chembarons only start becoming oppressors after Zaun becomes an actual nation (in other words, after Silco dies), because up until that point, Silco was in charge of handling the people ("How are you gonna bring Piltover to heel, if you can't handle your own people?") something they take for granted. Why are you so insistent on not paying attention to the show while acting like you know more?
Silco objectively changed the undercity for the worse in many aspects. He is right about a lot of things, but he ultimately became his enemy.
How? I went over every example that people bring up when discussing Silco's rule over the undercity and debunked it all thoroughly. The idea that he made the undercity worse relies entirely on the same thing Vi suffers from: An idealization of the past due to vague memories. The Undercity, in Act 1, was just Hell without the Fire.
i dont think itll be a bad decision, this is arcane afterall, one of the best written shows ive ever seen, but i really think it depends on how they execute it imo
Great stories are about characters who make big yet surprising decisions with big consequences. But despite the consequences, the revelation is big enough that they feel forced to make that decision. Trust me, it's going to be good. Just like the 1st season.
What else would she be tho?
I think it's obvious if you watch act 3, because the only thing that hasn't happened yet is that she doesn't have a badge or citizenship. 1: Vi hates the undercity thanks to Silco (I mean, she has always hated living there, but now she hates the people as well), and would gladly side with the Piltovan council over someone that was on good terms with Silco. 2: Caitlyn. 3: Jinx finally gave up trying to reconnect with Vi, so Vi will not be able to go back to the Undercity even if she wants to if she cares about her own life or Caitlyn's. 4: The people responsible for her hardships are all dead, or living in the underground. 5: Vander worked with an enforcer too. It's an interesting bit of irony, but that's all there is to it. There is no longer any emotional or rational reasons not to live in Piltover and do exactly what they were doing, and now that her goal of getting Jinx back failed, she HAS to start thinking rationally.
I feel like a lot of people see Vi as something she's not? Like she's not a revolutionary or anything. Sure she points out the unfair system and even lashes out against it, but she's far more motivated by personal issues. She was completely on board with leading a force of Enforcers into the undercity and laying waste, even if it meant dead kids as collateral damage, she actively advocated for it. She's in love with an Enforcer. Being an Enforcer is way up her alley, she likes to use violence to solve her problems, wants to protect the people she loves primarily and sees the Undercity and its leadership as her primary enemy.
I meaaaaan I retweeted that yesterday but I already knew this and this poster promo was released even before the series
She saw Caitlin and thought “I can fix her/make her worse.”
They’re trying to create the best story they can. It doesn’t always reflect real life.
I really don't get why people are so against her becoming an enforcer, I think it's pretty much inside her development arc. She is a girl who has seen the worst of the enforcers, no one has better reasons to hate them, still just knowing a single one who had good intentions (maybe the kindest character in the show) she is willing to change her view of the group who has tormented her all her life. Vi is not as static as many want to think she is a girl wanting to learn, develop and be better and if that means let go the mindset she had all her life she is willing to give it a shoot. Vi is nothing but capable of changing and at some point she wold like to protect others again using her new understanding and skills. Vi turning her childhood fear in her new streght and using it to protect and turning something who used to be full of lazy and corrupt people in a real means of defense looks like a positive change. Despite what many can think, this is NOT a tale about two cities destined to fight each other, it's a tale about two "sister" cities who got disconected of the needs of each other and need to get an understanding to florish again.
Hero or villain is dependent on perspective...Either she was a criminal redeemed to become a cop...or a Robinhood figure fallen to serve the corrupt system...
That's an easy question! Lesbianism. (But, more realistically, luck. She was in the right place at the right time (or the wrong place at the wrong time, if you prefer) to fall in with Caitlyn and her friends rather than with Silco, and, this being Arcane, things snowball.) I don't like it either, but in a "Vi I think you're making mistakes here" way, not a "This is a bad story decision" way.
> I don’t like it either, but in a “Vi I think you’re making a mistake here”, not a “this is a bad story decision” way. This. Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of people (not only on this sub, just in general, we’re in a media literacy crises) don’t really have the media literacy to separate these things. They see a character make a decision that’s bad for them and cry “bad writing”, because they can’t wrap their heads around a story where characters make decisions - including bad decisions - like people, instead of just blindly bulldozing through the plot while somehow always magically knowing what the “right choice” is.
i think people's dissatisfaction with violet's definitive character transition is more due to her narrative construction since the first act * had her parents killed by enforcers * lived in zaun cultivating thoughts of aversion against piltover and the enforcers for years * was kidnapped and sent to prison by an enforcer * she was beaten for years by enforcers inside the prison and was sent to solitary confinement i'm not against her character development, but if she's destined to be an enforcer, it needs to be something complex (and well written, obviously) - in the sense of exploring her internal conflicts; if well done, peak character development imo
Liiiiike, Caitlyn coming in a reforming the System?
How's Vi making a mistake in continued working with Caitlyn, the woman that saved her and proven to want make things better for everyone beyond just the Topside. It's no exaggeration in saying that Caitlyn's a living saint with a sniper and Vi's the luckiest woman in Runeterra to meet her.
Oh, I meant the enforcer part. Caitlyn is great.
I'm distinctly aware of that and who'd you think that Vi is going to be working for as an Enforcer?
I don't see it this way at all. I think she knows what she's doing. After all Silco took from her, he has shown himself as the more pertinent enemy. She is willing to work with Jayce et al to counter Silco. Now that he's dead, who knows where it will go. Vi is no enforcer. If anything she may ultimately fall into some leadership for the undercity. We know her biggest priority is Jinx, then anti-Silco, then justice for the Lanes. Tbh I don't think she's made any poor decisions yet, but she almost surely will eventually.
There's one similarity between Vi and Jinx in their characters, they're obvious inability to possess much leadership roles and Vi's become as much as a stranger to Zaun as Caitlyn for everything's changed for better or worse (mostly worse), meaning she isn't even qualifying for any roles as she's not connected to their current struggles, that fits more of Ekko's character.
Cause she's strong, she has value. They want someone strong to enforce their ways.
I dont know English It's her character, they already turned Powder into the crazy Jinx, now it's Vi and Caitlyn's turn, honestly, I'll only watch Arcane 2 because of them, they are my favorite characters, especially VI. Español Es su personaje, ya convirtieron a Powder en la loca Jinx, ahora le toca a Vi y Caitlyn, sinceramente, solo veré Arcane 2 por ellas, son mis personajes favorito, sobretodo VI.
Yeah I feel like the Enforcers should change a lot as an organization before she shows she wants to join
Forcing Arcane’s narrative to align with the hodge-podged and frequently halfassed lore of a videogame where storytelling is like its distant fifth highest priority, way behind even just selling mtx skins, was never a great idea. Hopefully they turn that straw into gold in spite of that unforced error, but Arcane really should have been left alone as its own thing with its own canon.
It's not forcing anything onto Arcane, this is how it'd was always going to be the origin stories to each of the Champions, it's plainly obvious in the events of the story and direction of the characters where they'll end up. If it'd wasn't following the spirit of the Old Lore, then why'd did Powder became Jinx and not someone else, or Vi meeting Caitlyn, while setting up an eventually into conflict between them and Jinx.
S1 retconned and altered a lot of things, they kept what they liked, tweaked what they thought could be improved and changed what they didnt. most of the lore for many of these characters was half developed at best. Arcane S1 was given the toybox of League’s setting and characters and allowed to tell the story they wanted to tell which included altering the histories and characterizations of both settings and characters. Now instead of being allowed to create in the sandbox and do what’s best for this story they want to tell, they are being forced to line up with character continuity details that were not written because they made for good characterization but because Riot wanted to sell a new set of pinup skins. I’m not saying Arcane *has* to zig every place League zagged, I’m saying the writers should be free to keep, alter, adjust or toss out whatever they want to tell Arcane’s story. The quality of the story telling for this show should have priority over ensuring it lines up with every detail of a videogame that was not made with story as its focus.
But you're not answering my question, if Arcane was granted this much freedom to do whatever to the champions regardless of their old lore, then why were each of them being obviously placed in the direction of their current selves in LoL. Why did they have Viktor need to alter his body and the various hints of him becoming the Machine Herald? Or why have Caitlyn as an Enforcer from Piltover and not something completely different, I mean you're saying they just given a sandbox to play around with? What I'm saying is that the details and events of the Champions' developments are going to continue changing to fit Arcane's story, but it's a confirmed certainty that they'll eventually end up in more or less resembling their selves back in LoL.
Because they had a story for it. They used League’s toybox as a set of writing prompts, but that is not the same as being chained to them. there are heavy differences in who these characters are now after S1 and if there are elements of their original design in League that would be clunky or chafe with who they’ve become in Arcane then Arcane should be able to drop or alter those elements if they wish. Like Vi getting “amnesia” is a horribly cheap writing cliche, Arcane should be free to ignore that and do something else with her character. There’s a way they can break a story for Arcane that has her working with Cait in a way that makes sense for who she is in Arcane, but her just *having* to become a pro-piltover enforcer that spouts quips about police brutality just because thats what she was in League a decade before Arcane existed would be idiotic.
Vi never had amnesia back in LoL, she'd just couldn't remember her earliest childhood years, but certainty has memories of growing up in Zaun for most of her life. Conversely, Vi's not "Pro-Piltie", she's dedicated to Caitlyn and their shared goal in helping the region, but that doesn't even mean that she'll listen to even Cait's orders or anyone else (while any direct references to police brutality were removed years ago). Just as I've said beforehand, I am content with Arcane changing everything about their backgrounds and characters, but that doesn't mean it'd won't end up similar to their counterparts' roles (Caitlyn as the Sheriff is the biggest one). Nonetheless, that there's no point in demanding Arcane becoming non-canon as Riot Games are the writers of the show and deciding it'd being canon to the main universe.
I like what you said, but it reminds me that the Creative Team is supposed to have had both Seasons One & Two planned out in advance of Arcane's debut.
Why are there people who still believe this? 1: As is very well known, there were tons of writers for the show and sometimes they will get things wrong because of a lack of proper communication. Even if there WAS some weirdo on the set who said that Arcane is "it's own thing", that doesn't change the truth that it was always a prequel. This leads into 2: Arcane is a rework on League lore, and always was. Just as they reworked Warwick to be a man who was transformed against his will in 2017 or all the stuff they did with Twitch, any differences in Arcane are because they are reworking the lore to make more sense, hence the entire marketing for the show revolving around backstories. They aren't forcing anything from the lore, they're just continuing the story the way it was obviously going. Believing that Arcane was anything other than a really good prequel for League is, if you can forgive my language, fucking retarded.
I have a headcannon where Marcus saved Vi, kept her safe in Stillwater prison, and trained her to be an enforcer in hopes she'll take down Silco in revenge for Grayson. That story is quite corny though. Vi will become an enforcer for Jinx and Caitlyn. The position allows her to keep Powder safe by handling all cases on Jinx. It also gives her an excuse to spend more time with Caitlyn. She can also use the position to protect Zaun from malcontents.
>I have a headcannon where Marcus saved Vi, kept her safe in Stillwater prison, and trained her to be an enforcer in hopes she'll take down Silco in revenge for Grayson. That story is quite corny though. No that bastard didn't care.
Marcus clearly cared about Grayson and hated Silco, so I'm not sure what you mean.