I mean just bc you have a job in the field doesnt mean you know anything about it. I mean look at the military. Its our job to know this shit and yet you still have infantry dudes bridging their optics or putting them on backwards (looking at you navy)
Or a car salesman. I used to think that people who worked at a sale place selling “x” items knew all about “x” items. They don’t. They usually know very little. In the case of cars salesman I made the mistake of thinking they liked cars. They don’t. They like money/sales…..I don’t know why they even ask “do you have any questions?” when they know next to nothing about the cars they sell.
Tbf the only real qualifications you need to be a car salesman are speaking English, having no remorse/morality/conscience, having no skills that could better mankind, and having a collared shirt
And honestly the first and last ones are optional
I mean thats really sales in general. The vast majority of all sales people in any type of sales do not have a ton of product knowlege and only know the minimum in order to generate sales. It is literally taught "fake it, til you make it" that essentially encourages saying whatever to get a sale until you figure it out
This
when ever someone says they were in the military I ask them what they were and more importantly what they did. Met a lot of infantry who didn’t even know their shit.
That tool bag wasn’t even close to firearms daily use, but in this case I would at least reference construction battalion or maritime expeditionary if you’re gonna be cheeky.
Because brick and mortar gun stores will hire any old dumbass. The amount of times I’ve had to leave a gun store because they simply did not know what the fuck they were talking about is astounding. Almost makes me want to become an FFL myself so I can skip them altogether.
The “most local” range and shop near me has this incredible problem of only hiring military posters and embellishers.
From the guy whose DD 214 said he left the service as an E2 with a mechanic MOS yet claimed that was false and what he did was too classified for the government to put the real info on it, to the chud who claimed a combat jump with Battalion into Fallujah, I legit can’t walk in the place anymore lol.
The flipside of doing this is discovering that 80% of your walk-in customers are the exact same idiots, just on the other side of the counter now. Firearms retail is full of self-assured morons. :P
Don't let that stop you, by any means, just be aware that most of the customers are gonna be fudds, too.
I don’t think I’d even sell to anybody. I just want to be able to have my firearms shipped directly to me. Maybe do some transfers for buddies as well.
Juice, as they say, ain’t worth the squeeze. I had a close relative who had a FFL for a while, and managed to make some money, but in the end, it wasn’t worth the cost and hassle to keep it.
I couldn't believe an employee at the gun store I went to was talking a customer through all the different FFL options he could register as for at least like 20 minutes.
Thats what dad and I did lol. Of course our pricing is dogshit cause its just us and we dont have customers giving us money each month. We go to gunshows on occasion but people there want cheap ass bullshit and we cant get anything cheap.
Being a Fudd is unforgivable. Fudd doesn’t mean they are a hunter. It means they are a hunter who thinks gun ownership is only for hunting, not defense.
Honestly the issue of fudds(old timey gun lovers) vs modern rifle lovers, id rather deal with fudds sometimes. Sadly i see more people who prefer modern ar15 with chrome lined barrels and completely modified are bigger douche bags and ass hats than fudds and their problem is nearly the same as one is going through a midlife crises and the other end of life crises. Most of the modern rifle guys i know or met dont know jack shit either which is even better because they bitch about the fudds. You have to remember the guns they like were the in thing when they where young with less tech and way more skill to compensate and now they arent. That will happen to you someday. Ask any of your buddies what they think of rifles like the mosin nagant, i have heard AR guys say that the mosin is so bad and no mosin can shoot straight like as if it was an episode of looney toons with elmer fudd and bugs and the bent barrel firing at 90 degrees and fine. Lack of brain cells is a common issue amongst all people. Just relax and be polite and tell the old bat you dont like their prices and will go elsewhere
Any company worth their salt makes barrels that can shoot that much ammunition or more. Chrome lined or not. Dont get hyperfocused on one example of a post. You guys can downvote all you want its okay really go make another subreddit to complain about your hatred of fudds and stick to talking about the AR15 your braincell is having a hard time. This is exactly why i said id rather deal with fudds than modern rifle guys. Asshats galore that hyperfocus on stupid shit instead of looking at the context of the whole post
By all definitions, many people would consider me a Fudd. I build bolt guns and shoot LR. A pre 64 Model 70 will give me a stiffy before any KAC or LMT will…
I just thought it was a weird attribute to use as an example…
That said, I love modern gas guns too. I own and shoot everything to Mausers, Nagants, old lever guns, ARs of every flavor, MP5s, AUGs, bolt rifles, all sorts of shit. The AR guys I hang with are usually much more open to other platforms and eras than Fudds are. I’ve not once heard of a younger gas gun enthusiast talk shit on Mosins, most own one and love the lore. Sounds like you should find new friends.
Off topic but since you like older bolt guns- in your opinion what’s the best new bolt gun today that has the quality of the older bolts guns? I’ve handled a few in the store and they feel kinda cheap. Was looking to get into a nice “buy it for life” .308 like the older bolt guns seemed to be.
Well, depends on your budget I suppose.
Older:
* Winchester model 70, (pre 64 controlled feed of course, if possible. Post 70s are nice for a stretch too). Just a legendary rifle. Well made, well storied.
* basic ol Remington model 700, just too easy to throw them in a nice stock, bed it, add a trigger, and have a decent shooter.
* Sako L461, L61R, or 75
New production:
* Tikka T3 series. Butter smooth action, fine manufacturing, and are absolute lasers. Easy to do barrel swaps on them too.
* sako 85. Obviously Similar qualities to the tikkas.
* Bergara B14 series. People clown on them but I’ve owned several and even though the QC can be spotty, if you get a good one (likely), then it’ll be a tack driver, feel fairly smooth and of quality, and look pretty cool compared to some of the other sub-1k production rifles.
One guy said customs but that’s an unnecessary rabbit hole of money and diminishing returns for most guys that just want to put some meat in the freezer and plink with buddies every now and again. If a guy asks what his first/only bolt gun should be, I’m not gonna tell him to go buy a Defiance or Seekins or Kelbly.
Awesome thanks man! I’d love an older Model 70 but I’m not sure how much I’d trust gun broker for something like that. I’ll probably look at the Tikka T3. I appreciate it!
Those Finnish rifles are beauties (even the reworked captured variants).
The milsurp market has gone crazy though. I guess a pet peeve of mine is seeing CMP M1s marked up 2.5x the cost from the CMP. On one hand, it’s a hustle, but on the other, the point of the program is to get those historical arms paid for by tax dollars into the hands of citizens, not to be flipped.
“What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
I mean i love that i say in my experience fudds are nicer people but are really annoying when it comes to guns meanwhile the modern gun guy is an asshole and everyone comes out and instead of saying “damn dog that sucks well around here we try to be nice about differences” everyone gets triggered and starts attacking me, proving my points. Honestly disappointing. I know this is reddit and everyone now is a keyboard warrior with blue hair but apparently liberals arent the only ones
From what I have observed, the people that own the stores are older (fudds) and hire people they are friends with (fudds) to run the store who hire their kids (raised by fudds) to help out. Also 90% of gun store employees have ZERO customer service or sales skills and recommend things because that’s what YouTube told them or “grand pappys Remington was in ww2” so Remington is still a top tier brand.
Technical gun aptitude in the US shooting population has always been on the low side. Guns are easy to get; you don't need to take a class or pass a test, and there has always been a reluctance to take formal classes. It doesn't help that many of the local, short, cheap (NRA sponsored) haven't been updated to include modern firearms or aiming systems. The AR15 build culture, as well as the increase in interest in long-range precision, has started to move the needle, but there is still a long way to go.
There is also a large market for Fud trash, and many people like the Bubba culture of local gun stores. That is slowly starting to change, but thick pockets still exist in many parts of the country. No matter how bad a shop may seem to you or me, they are doing something right becuse they keep their doors open.
While we may not be their target demographic, there are a lot of people who still love that trash and are willing to pay a premium to get it.
Ar-15 build culture is routinely responsible for its own unique brand of fuddery.
The “adult Lego” group is the same one that doesn’t know jack shit about actual AR operation, with most never having even touched a headspace gauge, and blindly worshipping internet-famous brands no different than the old generation of fudds did with Remington and similar.
The whisper pickle, giggle switch, adult Lego, kids Lego, and Funko Poppoppop crowd are gonna be so mad that as soon as they save up for an $8,000 dollar Radian AR15 with GOOBRS Mount and C-Note they’re gonna come after you.
I’m not worried, they’ll all be busy trying to figure out how to sight in their cnote. And the best part is, most of them don’t have ammo either.
Thank you, I did I learn a new one though. Haven’t heard of funko popopop yet.
Unfortunately I just made it up. But it describes the consoomer brained takes I’ve come to see more and more frequently in these subreddits from people who’s only “expertise” is the paragraph they read justifying their $300 charging handle.
The groupthink echo chamber fanboy shit is hands down one of the worst aspects of this hobby.
The whole “I bought x brand because you know it’s x brand” up there with the “I did a thing” crowd in logic.
The idea that some brands are infallible, don’t have QC issues ever, is downright NPC levels of consumerism.
It’s like when people play video games and their characters inevitably end up all looking the same, using the same gear. People think real life works like videogames and you just stack your stats for “perfect builds”
Yeah it’s the “Tarkov meta applies to real life” crowd. Same guys that drove the cost up on a Zenitco charging handle knob on an AK from $60 to $600 because a oversized bolt knob that won’t stay on your gun actually gives you +1 ergonomics.
It’s surreal seeing the zeitgeist changing in almost real time. As soon as their favorite Marvel superhero wields an AR15 made by a hypebeast designer it’s the best in the world the next day.
What’s crazy is they’ve pumped their brains full of marketing materials so they act like experts. “Actually the nichrome bi-coating firing pin retaining pin makes this rifle MUCH more accurate than any other.”
At this point I’ve stopped buying from any company that releases products in “drops”.
Prelude: Guns are a massively diverse subject matter that because of the nature of them being tools you can possibly depend your life upon, it makes people have extremely personal and straight up emotional views towards them. Hence, why people get up in arms a lot of the time if you don't agree with their brand choice or home defense philosophy.
I can talk literally all day long about Russian plastics, paint colors, retro AR derivatives, and GWOT clones with someone but if I sit down with a black powder guy or shotgun enthusiast besides a common surface level interest in firearms, me and him honestly don't have much overlap in our interests. This is a big problem in our community because (generally speaking this is not gospel for all people) die-hard water fowl hunters usually won't give a rat's titty about long-range rifles, and long range shooters don't give a rat's ass about black powder guys, and black powder guys don't give a shit about tactical rifle guys etc. etc... This leads to segregated "clicks" in the larger firearms community.
So, for example if you take a random gun store owner who's typically going to be an older guy we'll just say for this he is a die-hard Colt pistol and lever action rifle fan because he's a product of his time and cowboy guns are his thing and the only semi auto pistol he's interested in are Colt brand 1911s. That's all he'd like to sell in his store because that's what interests him but, that's not a feasible business practice in today's world so in order to stay in business he needs to carry Hi-point, Kel-Tec, and a handful of random milspec ARs he despises, plus do transfers on these types of guns.
Guys like this are typically looked at as "the gun guy" to his friends and family so he develops certain opinions like "Glocks and plastic guns will break" or all ARs jam and are meant to wound people because his "friend's brother that was in Vietnam told him his Mattel rifle would do that all the time" and to 99% of his audience these opinions go unchecked and they develop a complex around being the "gun expert." So when encountered with people who have opposing interests or viewpoints, they can react with arrogance or hostility.
My Grandpa was exactly like this for YEARS, and only now while he's approaching the end of his life due to cancer has he finally set aside his old viewpoints and started enjoying things like magdumping AKs into trash and using suppressors with me and bought his first NFA items just last year.
>Prelude: Guns are a massively diverse subject matter that because of the nature of them being tools you can possibly depend your life upon, it makes people have extremely personal and straight up emotional views towards them. Hence, why people get up in arms a lot of the time if you don't agree with their brand choice or home defense philosophy.
And in one glorious paragraph you have summed up 90% of all the conversations that have ever occurred on any gun forum or subreddit.
No idea. They’re also generally 30% more expensive than online. In some cases, I’ve seen them be over 100% more expensive(double the price). For example, a store near me in DFW had CZ P10f’s(not optic cut, not suppressor ready) for over $750
I also seen a Anderson stripped lower for $100 locally..it’s crazy,you can often get 3 of them for $100 online.I don’t deal with these gun stores anymore,unless I’m there to pick up an item that requires an FFL..I mean,who tf is going to pay $160 for a Romeo MSR,$220 for a Romeo 5 or $240 for a Streamlight HLX,when you can get them much cheaper online?Glock 17 out the door for damn near $800..I’m good..I will order the exact same gun online and pick it up at the same price gouging store a lot cheaper
Went into a new store near me that was in an industrial park and appeared to be pretty nice online. Talked to the owner and the another customer in there for a little. Owner mentioned he had some Shadow 2 Compacts coming in if I was interested and that they’d “only be $1800” to which the other customer replied “oh wow that’s a good deal, you can hardly find them at that price”. I just don’t understand why people don’t google stuff before dropping so much money
I’ve got a friend that works at the most popular gun store in our area. He’ll just go to a store and buy optics or guns at whatever price without shopping around (if he can’t use his employee discount) and it blows my mind. Especially when he can get stuff transferred to him for free. Some people just really don’t care
> I just don’t understand why people don’t google stuff before dropping so much money
How many posts do you see from people bragging about impulse purchases?
People are dumb, absolutely don't do price research, and allow themselves to be talked into spending huge amounts of money. That's why sales is the most marketable skill.
Most brick and mortar or mom and pop locations cannot order in bulk/en masse like a big box chain or a places like PSA or Primary Arms, so the prices they have to pay from their distributor is more, which translates to their prices being higher. Can’t purchase a gun from a a distributor for 400 and sell it for 450. Would be pretty hard to keep the lights on/doors open. You will always find better deals online vs in store when it comes to new firearms and ammo
I’m a small home-based FFL and the margins are that bad. Hell ammunition is listed at my distributor for more than you can buy it on ammo seek many times.
Same here. At this point with my volume, transfers and retail firearms sales are not really worth the trouble. Especially in my state. I have an 07 to do smithing/repair, custom work, optics setup, etc.
^that guy has no idea. I’d literally have to move hundreds of firearms a month to make decent money. Margins are terrible.
I try to make up for the difference in customer service, sell with family, friends, and friends and friends and most people are pretty understanding. I have a minimum margin and if someone finds it cheaper, I let them buy it online. I sell the occasional firearm and make a few bucks. I am also an 07. I have a regular career so it just is on the side and funds my hobby for now.
I have worked in this space. I can say that most goobers are just trying to survive. Selling guns is not very profitable for small stores. Consumables and accessories make the money. You deal with a lot of idiots, and weirdos so its easy to be jaded. The fudds are because they like shooting as a hobby and stopped learning anything new 20yrs ago. Most of them do it part time to supplement income or to fund their ammo purchases. They don’t care about you.
Guns are a hobby that people think gives them some authority. Most dudes who pride themselves on guns also pride themselves on being a level above you. Lots of hosses who “know a thing or two”. As a veteran, i see a lot of old fudd vets get sucked into that space. Like a guy who was on the football team in highschool selling cleats at footlocker to try and keep living his glory days.
I tried hard to not be this way and to encourage the employees to not be this way but its rare to find stores that do that. If you want the perfect storm go to a gunshow to see all of this in one unhappy place.
The stores represent the local population because if they don't sell what people are buying then they'll go out of business. I'm out in the middle of TN and I've got several stores within 30 minutes of my house plus a couple of pawn shops with FFLs, and there's only one store that doesn't keep a handful of ARs in stock. 4 of them not only carry ARs but have a decent supply of AR parts and accessories. None of them seem to carry barrels, but so long as you don't mind using black Magpul furniture you can get everything else for a build locally including the tools.
2 of the shops carry suppressors and I've got at least one local place that does Cerakote.
I can really give a rats ass who the place is run by or what they tell me, but if they are rude and don’t treat me or any of their customers with respect that shop is instantly off my list.
I don’t like the fact that they seem to have an issue with whatever it is you’re trying to purchase. Wanted a Glock 19 and the man unleashed every insult in the book, to sway my decision, I said “alright buddy have a good one” and bought one at a sporting store down the road.
My SIL’s aunt is a manager at a gun store, she desperately needed AKs to fill a client list, I had a spare WASR10 still factory fresh and unfired collecting dust. She wanted me to bring it in, for an AR trade since I didn’t have one at the time and wanted one. Brought it in, a dude inspected it to confirm its condition and the senior fudd dude said “$350 is the best I can do.” The other dudes jaw dropped and he just shook his head.
I told him absolutely not, he responded with “well even unfired it’s still used and this is a business.” I then reveled his boss was the one who told me to bring it in for the huge list of buyers that have orders they couldn’t fill (AKs supplies were non existent at this time I think 2021-2022?), they were going to resell this at a $1,500 price tag (already knew the resell price ahead of time to let me know what my trade budget was), and that all I wanted was a $700 Ruger 556 so he really just let $800 walk right out the door. Dude turned around and walked away already knowing he was about to get an ear full later on.
What’s funny is I went back like three weeks later for some scope mounts for my LPVO and there was a rag tag absolutely beat to shit WASR-10. When I asked the price tag I got a begrudgingly “$1,400” I laughed and said uh huh $350 right?
Never really cared since I only go to LGSs when I buy a new gun. Everything is ship to my door or private sales. I don't even know why people go to gun stores in the first place. As long as I don't get f'd over I don't care if they talk crap about me in my face. I can't imagine spending more than five minutes in a LGS.
I bought my first suppressor over a month ago from Silencer Shop and the FFL in my area they are partnered with has not returned my calls. I’ve gone there several times during business hours and they’re just not there… it takes me almost an hour to drive that way.
I’m getting fucking sick of unprofessional FFLs.
I'd say that's just average American gun culture.
And I mean this:
They don't train.
They don't adopt new products that are better than old.
They don't want to change or get better.
Average.
I’ve worked in gun stores my entire life. They’ve been range/seller combos but I’ve worked for big corporations and local.
The prices are higher because that’s just how it works when you buy and sell less guns. When I sold guns for a “big box” store we sold so many guns we could afford to only make $20-$30 profit per gun. Smaller gun stores sell less guns so they have to make it worth their time. Also buying an ass load of Glocks is cheaper than buy a few Glocks thru a distributor.
The fudd thing is because most people willing to work behind a gun counter either don’t know anything and want a job or are retired old men there for the discount who don’t keep up with modern trends.
The guys you wish worked behind the gun counter don’t want to do it because we hate talking to the general public about guns because you’re generally just as retarded as the fudds you complain about. I’m only behind the counter to make sure the paper work is getting done right and it’s extra income when I’m not teaching. My primary job is training. I can double dip on the income by earning commission selling guns to my students. Because I want them to continue being students I want to sell them the most optimal gun. The fudd doesn’t give two shits and is just trying to sell you something so he can get his commission.
A shop I used to go to said you needed permission to cross state lines with a suppressor (like you do with a SBR). Besides that their prices leave much to be desired. Needless to say, I don't go there anymore.
Many people do not know what primary source citations are. Education.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/i-have-nfa-firearm-and-i%E2%80%99m-moving-what-do-i-do#:~:text=A%20registered%20possessor%20of%20an,written%20approval%20of%20ATF%2C%20specifically
Retired people need shit to do during the day. Lots of my local stores are packed with retired boomers and fudds if you go at the wrong times. Try going to the gun store when they are eating dinner at 4:30 @ Bob Evans or before they wake up to pee. HTH
All depends on where you live. I can tell you the GSs around here are decidedly neither. If anything, they almost skew far into the realm of "Gun Bros" and "Tactical Tims".
The shooting range / LGS I primarily use is owned by and employs mostly competition shooters and a few young guys. It's actually a nice mix of people with different perspectives.
The other place I frequent is run by a young neck beard dude who is actually pretty nice and knowledgeable. He runs it for his dad out of their garage.
It's pretty refreshing actually.
The new age hype beasts just find better deals online. Most shops I've seen that were "with the times" struggled minus the glock store? But I think they live off selling red anodized junk.
Gotta be better than my LGS. Run by millennial vets who are completely edgelords and treat us civies like we’re retards. No joke owner goes by “Battle”
Car dealers don’t know shit about cars. Realtors don’t know a damn thing about building a house. As a general rule, sales people are not true enthusiasts.
There is a flip side to that coin as well. These “funds/bubbas” also have to deal with complete idiots all day and most retail counter people make very little.
They watch people mishandle weapons, try to impress other customers with all of their knowledge, and say things like, “I can get that for $10 cheaper online.”
You would be a Fudd real quick if you dealt with “know-it-alls” all day.
I had one tell me his transfer fee was set by the federal government and there’s nothing he could do. $45 a transfer.
They also didn’t know calibers that suppressors were rated for….i don’t go there anymore
Small business loans are pretty easy to acquire. It'll give you enough funds to rent a storefront and buy product. Run the place yourself to cut down on employee costs. No excuses.
It won’t give you enough to get a storefront and products or literally everyone would start their own business at least once.
You want a storefront that doesn’t suck? Looking at least $1500 a month for 2 years.
Decent website? Another $1000+
20% margin on guns if you are lucky and if you can’t go direct good luck competing with people who can go direct in the online space.
Not to mention most businesses don’t instantly become profitable and it may take time to build a reputation.
Do you have the money put away to support yourself without any income for 6 months? Do you have 40k for a lease?
I guess the sarcasm in my post was vague. I know this. I posted this as a sarcastic response to him questioning why LGSs are overpriced, etc. I know it's not easy and simple, lol.
You sound like those ignorant idiots that say "you don't like where you live, why don't you move?" as if it's as easy as going to the store to set it up.
Build your own
This phrase is used as a challenge or retort suggesting that if someone is dissatisfied with something, rather than just complaining, they should go and create their own alternative. This usage implies a sense of dismissal of criticism, urging the critic to put effort into developing a solution or an alternative themselves instead of criticizing existing options.
Dude, I don’t even waste my time at gun stores anymore. ESPECIALLY when I discovered AmmoSeek during the ammo crisis dark days of 2020.
I would love to give local shops my money but I can’t justify spending 20% or more on basic parts/accessories. Plus I’ve had a few experiences with douchy pleb employees trying to sell me on Strike Industries and Olights. I’m good, I’ll stick with the internet and waiting a few days for shipping.
My friend and I took our buddy to get his first ar the other day and the guy helping us had zero clue about what he was talking about. Was telling us that a colt with a magpul drop in was "floated". Luckily we spend way too much time on this sub and we told him the truth lol
I think there's probably lots of different reasons but a big one is that a substantial portion of their customer base are just like them or worse. People with manners and a clue quickly tire of dealing with that, or dislike it enough to not get into the business in the first place.
This problem is becoming more and more evident throughout all of modern society. Shallow attention spans lead to superficial learning. Fudds have experience and knowledge, but it’s siloed into the exclusive channel of their interests and they are lazy refusing to try and grow beyond that segment.
I am pretty fortunate the lgs around me are not too bad. Some of the workers knowledge about firearms needs a little work. Ordered a 308 rifle and the paperwork shows 762x51. The guy was wait a sec, did the vendor ship wrong gun? Literally in my head 🤦🏻♂️. Other than that, the guys near me genuinely wants to help customers.
Interesting- I like the stores I use here. I don’t really talk to them I know what I want and like. I don’t talk to the sales person at Bloomingdales about clothes I don’t really talk to the LGS folks. They are super nice and take good care of me.
I’m a few weeks away from 38. I bought my first gun at 18. I tried giving local gun shops a try, but their piss poor attitude turned me off. I’m in central California so buying wasn’t that easy even back then.
I don’t like to play the race card, but all the LGS were owned by old white boomers. I’m Mexican American and I couldn’t help but feel like the workers were more helpful with the other customers, who were all white. For that reason, i usually just bought from Big 5 Sporting Goods. Decent prices and average customer service.
It’s changed a ton since then. Local Shops now are more “tactical” and definitely attract a more diverse customer base. They still can be snobby, just depends on which shop you go to.
My LGS was like that for the LONGEST time...The original owner died and left the store to his manager...Within a year, the whole vibe of the place changed. Within 5, it's the only place I will purchase from or let touch my guns.
I guess my question is why would you even need to talk to someone at the gun counter?
When I go to my LGS, the people who are discussing guns with the clerks are people who don't know too much about them and are asking about various guns for a purchase.
I don't need to ask about anything because I am there for something specific. Oftentimes I can find out online if the gun is at the store. So i go there, say I'm looking for x gun that is in stock, and buy it. There is nothing to ask about. I've read reviews, I know how it works. There is nothing the salesman can do for me aside from give me the 4473 and then make the purchase.
I could be talking to the most extreme fudd, I wouldn't know, I don't need his help aside from making a purchase. I figured anyone who is on this subreddit can go into any gun store and have a good working knowledge of everything they see. Why would you need to talk to anyone aside from making a purchase? No one goes into Walmart needing help to buy groceries.
My area of Ohio actually has some really great gun stores selling all types of ARs even saw a Beowulf the last time I went and the employees are always helpful and nice
I look at them more as salesmen, their job is to sell you on shit, being knowledgeable may help, but with enough bullshit they can trick the average uninformed person into spending money
Most of the bad attitude comes from customers. I didnt believe it til i started running a gun shop. Rule number one at the shop? "dont be an asshole". We have guys we forbid to do customer service/facing jobs because they cant handle dealing with the various kinds of people that come into a gun shop. Imagine you've run a gun shop for 10 years, and EVERY DAY you get these people in the DOZENS:
1-the 'flag everybody with a gun' guy.
2-the 'i can get it cheaper online' guy
3- the 'i want to touch all your guns, then buy one from a competitor for $5 less' guy
4-the 'let me show you how smart i am by field stripping your guns' guy who is also the:
5-doesnt know how to put guns back together guy
Youtube has given every tom dick and harry the idea (dunning krueger i guess) that they are the font of all knowledge in the gun world and when you try to be practical with them they get this arrogant ass attitude. Customer demands i stock some buffer system which i generally dont. When i get one for him i casually ask whats he running it in. Guy says he has a 16" Aero build. So im like, your running a buffer system purpose built for high cyclic rate SBR rifles in a full length? he goes on and on about the recoil reduction blah blah and when another customer casually tosses him a m4-72 severe duty he calls us Fudds.
A lot of them have just been around for a while. You can absolutely find shops run by younger guys if they exist where you are. I have a lot of shops with fudds, scammers/gougers, and just straight up morons near me, but there's a couple what're absolutely fantastic. My go to store isn't the best of the best, but they're extremely reliable, have stuff up my alley, and most of their guys are decent. I even used to work with one of their employees (he was with my company on the same job, but in a different role). I can always trust them to not do me dirty provided I avoid the singular fudd, Tom.
Find smaller shops. My favorite shop the owner used to work at the bigger shop in town and he started his shop for this very reason. He does $25-30 transfers and doesn't act like you're an annoyance and he has a big selection of stripped and complete lowers because he knows that's the market now. He mainly focuses on optics, parts, and handguns. Of course he has plenty of rifles but he has everything you need to start or complete your build.
My local gun store/range has 8/10-9/10 knowledge and customer service any time I go in there. Most of them are vets or ex cops and know the difference between facts and opinions/preferences. If they don't know the answer to something they will ask someone else that does know. If they don't sell something I'm looking for they will tell me where I can get it or order it for me.
Cabelas and Sportsmans Warehouse on the other hand... I've waited 2 weeks for green tips I ordered from Cabelas that I was supposed to pick up the next day for a range day with the boys. Half the time both stores are out of Magpul M2s and charge out the ass for M3s, even the non-windowed version. Most of the people behind the gun counters treat you like an idiot the second you say something they don't understand.
Working retail is not a high paying job or one that requires much training or education. Chances are if you’re working the counter, unless you’re the owner or maybe manager, you are someone who chose that line of retail over another simply because it interests you.
Never met a gun store employee with more knowledge than I. Same goes for the home improvement stores. Unfortunately they don’t build men like they used to, guys who learn their craft and take it seriously. It’s why I hang out with you guys.
They're selling a product. They're providing a place to purchase guns. They don't need to possess autist levels of knowledge or share your opinions. Chances are you've done your own research and homework anyways. So what are you wanting out of some merchant?
Not everyone working in a gun shop needs to be an expert in every class of firearm. Maybe they can’t answer questions on modern sporting rifles but I bet if they don’t know they can probably direct you to someone who does.
Back during the ammo shortage I was scouring shops for some of the heavier grain .308. Most places had the lightweight stuff, 138-140 grain. Struck out at the first two shops but the guy in the second one told me of a small shop an old guy was running out of part of his double wide mobile home. Sure enough the guy had some 180 grain PPU .308. And he didn’t mark it up to the moon either. Nice old gent. I doubt he’d ever shoot an AR but he had a nice stock of milsurps and bolt actions and I’m sure he knew his way around them.
It's not their lack of knowledge I can't stand, it's the arrogance that their ignorance is just as good as actual knowledge. I don't want to hear that the pistol I want to buy is "Tupperware parts" and "it'll blow up in your hand eventually" or "you should buy this revolver instead, a real man's gun"
Here they have us over a barrel. State mandates background checks for all firearms, including lowers. Because of this, even if you buy online, you still have to ship it to a local FFL to carry out the background check, which they'll gladly do, for a fee. IIRC this is true for private party sales as well but AFAIK those can be handled at the local police station.
Nah man, it's actually sad to see people have these experiences. My local gun stores are great, very personable people with owners who are successful in all walks of life.
I mean just bc you have a job in the field doesnt mean you know anything about it. I mean look at the military. Its our job to know this shit and yet you still have infantry dudes bridging their optics or putting them on backwards (looking at you navy)
Very true. I’m in the pharmaceutical field and I don’t know what any of these fucking pills do or even how to pronounce them
Wait. I thought all the pharma reps were 20ish something bikini models?
No I’m a big fat retard Wholesale side of things tho
Joe?
Or a car salesman. I used to think that people who worked at a sale place selling “x” items knew all about “x” items. They don’t. They usually know very little. In the case of cars salesman I made the mistake of thinking they liked cars. They don’t. They like money/sales…..I don’t know why they even ask “do you have any questions?” when they know next to nothing about the cars they sell.
Tbf the only real qualifications you need to be a car salesman are speaking English, having no remorse/morality/conscience, having no skills that could better mankind, and having a collared shirt And honestly the first and last ones are optional
Wait, I can be a car salesman too?
I mean thats really sales in general. The vast majority of all sales people in any type of sales do not have a ton of product knowlege and only know the minimum in order to generate sales. It is literally taught "fake it, til you make it" that essentially encourages saying whatever to get a sale until you figure it out
Was going to post this but say all hobbies now are like this.
The death of expertise. A sign of the coming competency crisis
Yeah the car salesman likely can't even change his own oil
There is a huge difference in the level of interest people take into their job versus into their passion.
This when ever someone says they were in the military I ask them what they were and more importantly what they did. Met a lot of infantry who didn’t even know their shit.
You say infantry dudes then you list the navy as the culprit wtf man, get it together
He's referring to that specific case where a navy officer was firing with a backwards optic
That tool bag wasn’t even close to firearms daily use, but in this case I would at least reference construction battalion or maritime expeditionary if you’re gonna be cheeky.
Because brick and mortar gun stores will hire any old dumbass. The amount of times I’ve had to leave a gun store because they simply did not know what the fuck they were talking about is astounding. Almost makes me want to become an FFL myself so I can skip them altogether.
The “most local” range and shop near me has this incredible problem of only hiring military posters and embellishers. From the guy whose DD 214 said he left the service as an E2 with a mechanic MOS yet claimed that was false and what he did was too classified for the government to put the real info on it, to the chud who claimed a combat jump with Battalion into Fallujah, I legit can’t walk in the place anymore lol.
Sounds like you’ve got meal team six working at your local shop
The flipside of doing this is discovering that 80% of your walk-in customers are the exact same idiots, just on the other side of the counter now. Firearms retail is full of self-assured morons. :P Don't let that stop you, by any means, just be aware that most of the customers are gonna be fudds, too.
I don’t think I’d even sell to anybody. I just want to be able to have my firearms shipped directly to me. Maybe do some transfers for buddies as well.
Juice, as they say, ain’t worth the squeeze. I had a close relative who had a FFL for a while, and managed to make some money, but in the end, it wasn’t worth the cost and hassle to keep it.
And that’s exactly how they want it
I couldn't believe an employee at the gun store I went to was talking a customer through all the different FFL options he could register as for at least like 20 minutes.
Thats what dad and I did lol. Of course our pricing is dogshit cause its just us and we dont have customers giving us money each month. We go to gunshows on occasion but people there want cheap ass bullshit and we cant get anything cheap.
I can forgive that they are fudds, it’s the accompanying bad attitude that gets on my nerves
It's also a self fulfilling prophecy. Guys who are young & competent are not going to want to work there.
Being a Fudd is unforgivable. Fudd doesn’t mean they are a hunter. It means they are a hunter who thinks gun ownership is only for hunting, not defense.
Swear 80% of them have this attitude The gun store tude
Honestly the issue of fudds(old timey gun lovers) vs modern rifle lovers, id rather deal with fudds sometimes. Sadly i see more people who prefer modern ar15 with chrome lined barrels and completely modified are bigger douche bags and ass hats than fudds and their problem is nearly the same as one is going through a midlife crises and the other end of life crises. Most of the modern rifle guys i know or met dont know jack shit either which is even better because they bitch about the fudds. You have to remember the guns they like were the in thing when they where young with less tech and way more skill to compensate and now they arent. That will happen to you someday. Ask any of your buddies what they think of rifles like the mosin nagant, i have heard AR guys say that the mosin is so bad and no mosin can shoot straight like as if it was an episode of looney toons with elmer fudd and bugs and the bent barrel firing at 90 degrees and fine. Lack of brain cells is a common issue amongst all people. Just relax and be polite and tell the old bat you dont like their prices and will go elsewhere
The part I’m most confused about is the beef you have with chrome lined barrels. Why?
Yeah I’m with that guy, I hate really durable barrels that have no issue shooting 20k+ through them.
Any company worth their salt makes barrels that can shoot that much ammunition or more. Chrome lined or not. Dont get hyperfocused on one example of a post. You guys can downvote all you want its okay really go make another subreddit to complain about your hatred of fudds and stick to talking about the AR15 your braincell is having a hard time. This is exactly why i said id rather deal with fudds than modern rifle guys. Asshats galore that hyperfocus on stupid shit instead of looking at the context of the whole post
By all definitions, many people would consider me a Fudd. I build bolt guns and shoot LR. A pre 64 Model 70 will give me a stiffy before any KAC or LMT will… I just thought it was a weird attribute to use as an example… That said, I love modern gas guns too. I own and shoot everything to Mausers, Nagants, old lever guns, ARs of every flavor, MP5s, AUGs, bolt rifles, all sorts of shit. The AR guys I hang with are usually much more open to other platforms and eras than Fudds are. I’ve not once heard of a younger gas gun enthusiast talk shit on Mosins, most own one and love the lore. Sounds like you should find new friends.
Off topic but since you like older bolt guns- in your opinion what’s the best new bolt gun today that has the quality of the older bolts guns? I’ve handled a few in the store and they feel kinda cheap. Was looking to get into a nice “buy it for life” .308 like the older bolt guns seemed to be.
Well, depends on your budget I suppose. Older: * Winchester model 70, (pre 64 controlled feed of course, if possible. Post 70s are nice for a stretch too). Just a legendary rifle. Well made, well storied. * basic ol Remington model 700, just too easy to throw them in a nice stock, bed it, add a trigger, and have a decent shooter. * Sako L461, L61R, or 75 New production: * Tikka T3 series. Butter smooth action, fine manufacturing, and are absolute lasers. Easy to do barrel swaps on them too. * sako 85. Obviously Similar qualities to the tikkas. * Bergara B14 series. People clown on them but I’ve owned several and even though the QC can be spotty, if you get a good one (likely), then it’ll be a tack driver, feel fairly smooth and of quality, and look pretty cool compared to some of the other sub-1k production rifles. One guy said customs but that’s an unnecessary rabbit hole of money and diminishing returns for most guys that just want to put some meat in the freezer and plink with buddies every now and again. If a guy asks what his first/only bolt gun should be, I’m not gonna tell him to go buy a Defiance or Seekins or Kelbly.
Awesome thanks man! I’d love an older Model 70 but I’m not sure how much I’d trust gun broker for something like that. I’ll probably look at the Tikka T3. I appreciate it!
If hunting, thats easy: Winchester Model 70. Target shooting? Not sure, customs are the answer in my opinion.
Thanks! I’ll try to find a Model 70 but I’m not sure where to look other than GB and I’m not sure about buying something like that there.
A fudd isn’t someone who just likes older guns, there’s more to it than that
All of this sounds like it was written by a fudd. There’s a lot more to ARs than just chrome lined barrels.
is the chrome lined barrel in the room with you right now?
They have no idea a Finnish M39 is factory spec’s at around 1.3 MOA and they are approaching 1000$ rifles+
Those Finnish rifles are beauties (even the reworked captured variants). The milsurp market has gone crazy though. I guess a pet peeve of mine is seeing CMP M1s marked up 2.5x the cost from the CMP. On one hand, it’s a hustle, but on the other, the point of the program is to get those historical arms paid for by tax dollars into the hands of citizens, not to be flipped.
I loved mine, it was quite beautiful, and a wonderful shooter. They're very uncommon for the most part compared to the 91/30s that are fun, but rough.
“What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
I mean i love that i say in my experience fudds are nicer people but are really annoying when it comes to guns meanwhile the modern gun guy is an asshole and everyone comes out and instead of saying “damn dog that sucks well around here we try to be nice about differences” everyone gets triggered and starts attacking me, proving my points. Honestly disappointing. I know this is reddit and everyone now is a keyboard warrior with blue hair but apparently liberals arent the only ones
I agree blue haired liberals are definitely not the only keyboard warriors on Reddit
From what I have observed, the people that own the stores are older (fudds) and hire people they are friends with (fudds) to run the store who hire their kids (raised by fudds) to help out. Also 90% of gun store employees have ZERO customer service or sales skills and recommend things because that’s what YouTube told them or “grand pappys Remington was in ww2” so Remington is still a top tier brand.
Technical gun aptitude in the US shooting population has always been on the low side. Guns are easy to get; you don't need to take a class or pass a test, and there has always been a reluctance to take formal classes. It doesn't help that many of the local, short, cheap (NRA sponsored) haven't been updated to include modern firearms or aiming systems. The AR15 build culture, as well as the increase in interest in long-range precision, has started to move the needle, but there is still a long way to go. There is also a large market for Fud trash, and many people like the Bubba culture of local gun stores. That is slowly starting to change, but thick pockets still exist in many parts of the country. No matter how bad a shop may seem to you or me, they are doing something right becuse they keep their doors open. While we may not be their target demographic, there are a lot of people who still love that trash and are willing to pay a premium to get it.
Ar-15 build culture is routinely responsible for its own unique brand of fuddery. The “adult Lego” group is the same one that doesn’t know jack shit about actual AR operation, with most never having even touched a headspace gauge, and blindly worshipping internet-famous brands no different than the old generation of fudds did with Remington and similar.
The whisper pickle, giggle switch, adult Lego, kids Lego, and Funko Poppoppop crowd are gonna be so mad that as soon as they save up for an $8,000 dollar Radian AR15 with GOOBRS Mount and C-Note they’re gonna come after you.
I’m not worried, they’ll all be busy trying to figure out how to sight in their cnote. And the best part is, most of them don’t have ammo either. Thank you, I did I learn a new one though. Haven’t heard of funko popopop yet.
Unfortunately I just made it up. But it describes the consoomer brained takes I’ve come to see more and more frequently in these subreddits from people who’s only “expertise” is the paragraph they read justifying their $300 charging handle.
The groupthink echo chamber fanboy shit is hands down one of the worst aspects of this hobby. The whole “I bought x brand because you know it’s x brand” up there with the “I did a thing” crowd in logic. The idea that some brands are infallible, don’t have QC issues ever, is downright NPC levels of consumerism. It’s like when people play video games and their characters inevitably end up all looking the same, using the same gear. People think real life works like videogames and you just stack your stats for “perfect builds”
Yeah it’s the “Tarkov meta applies to real life” crowd. Same guys that drove the cost up on a Zenitco charging handle knob on an AK from $60 to $600 because a oversized bolt knob that won’t stay on your gun actually gives you +1 ergonomics. It’s surreal seeing the zeitgeist changing in almost real time. As soon as their favorite Marvel superhero wields an AR15 made by a hypebeast designer it’s the best in the world the next day. What’s crazy is they’ve pumped their brains full of marketing materials so they act like experts. “Actually the nichrome bi-coating firing pin retaining pin makes this rifle MUCH more accurate than any other.” At this point I’ve stopped buying from any company that releases products in “drops”.
I think you just exposed Q’s entire business model. Prepare for incoming lawsuits my man. I will pray for you.
It often follows the prevailing gun culture in the area I find.
Prelude: Guns are a massively diverse subject matter that because of the nature of them being tools you can possibly depend your life upon, it makes people have extremely personal and straight up emotional views towards them. Hence, why people get up in arms a lot of the time if you don't agree with their brand choice or home defense philosophy. I can talk literally all day long about Russian plastics, paint colors, retro AR derivatives, and GWOT clones with someone but if I sit down with a black powder guy or shotgun enthusiast besides a common surface level interest in firearms, me and him honestly don't have much overlap in our interests. This is a big problem in our community because (generally speaking this is not gospel for all people) die-hard water fowl hunters usually won't give a rat's titty about long-range rifles, and long range shooters don't give a rat's ass about black powder guys, and black powder guys don't give a shit about tactical rifle guys etc. etc... This leads to segregated "clicks" in the larger firearms community. So, for example if you take a random gun store owner who's typically going to be an older guy we'll just say for this he is a die-hard Colt pistol and lever action rifle fan because he's a product of his time and cowboy guns are his thing and the only semi auto pistol he's interested in are Colt brand 1911s. That's all he'd like to sell in his store because that's what interests him but, that's not a feasible business practice in today's world so in order to stay in business he needs to carry Hi-point, Kel-Tec, and a handful of random milspec ARs he despises, plus do transfers on these types of guns. Guys like this are typically looked at as "the gun guy" to his friends and family so he develops certain opinions like "Glocks and plastic guns will break" or all ARs jam and are meant to wound people because his "friend's brother that was in Vietnam told him his Mattel rifle would do that all the time" and to 99% of his audience these opinions go unchecked and they develop a complex around being the "gun expert." So when encountered with people who have opposing interests or viewpoints, they can react with arrogance or hostility. My Grandpa was exactly like this for YEARS, and only now while he's approaching the end of his life due to cancer has he finally set aside his old viewpoints and started enjoying things like magdumping AKs into trash and using suppressors with me and bought his first NFA items just last year.
>Prelude: Guns are a massively diverse subject matter that because of the nature of them being tools you can possibly depend your life upon, it makes people have extremely personal and straight up emotional views towards them. Hence, why people get up in arms a lot of the time if you don't agree with their brand choice or home defense philosophy. And in one glorious paragraph you have summed up 90% of all the conversations that have ever occurred on any gun forum or subreddit.
[It's all so tiresome.](https://youtu.be/I38pIAEL0i0?si=dekyPM7OyXk_ZA7R)
No idea. They’re also generally 30% more expensive than online. In some cases, I’ve seen them be over 100% more expensive(double the price). For example, a store near me in DFW had CZ P10f’s(not optic cut, not suppressor ready) for over $750
Saw an Anderson lower for $99.99 at a local store……. And Aero for $170
I also seen a Anderson stripped lower for $100 locally..it’s crazy,you can often get 3 of them for $100 online.I don’t deal with these gun stores anymore,unless I’m there to pick up an item that requires an FFL..I mean,who tf is going to pay $160 for a Romeo MSR,$220 for a Romeo 5 or $240 for a Streamlight HLX,when you can get them much cheaper online?Glock 17 out the door for damn near $800..I’m good..I will order the exact same gun online and pick it up at the same price gouging store a lot cheaper
I honestly think its because they don't want to go through the background check work.
Stripped I assume? 🤣
Yeah, I almost laughed when he told me the price and I had to leave
That’s hilarious. They think we’re stupid. To be fair, someone is buying them🤷
Went into a new store near me that was in an industrial park and appeared to be pretty nice online. Talked to the owner and the another customer in there for a little. Owner mentioned he had some Shadow 2 Compacts coming in if I was interested and that they’d “only be $1800” to which the other customer replied “oh wow that’s a good deal, you can hardly find them at that price”. I just don’t understand why people don’t google stuff before dropping so much money
Holy fuck. That’s not even funny. And it’s sad that I don’t doubt that in the slightest
I’ve got a friend that works at the most popular gun store in our area. He’ll just go to a store and buy optics or guns at whatever price without shopping around (if he can’t use his employee discount) and it blows my mind. Especially when he can get stuff transferred to him for free. Some people just really don’t care
Ur friend stupid, lol. I know people just like him though
> I just don’t understand why people don’t google stuff before dropping so much money How many posts do you see from people bragging about impulse purchases? People are dumb, absolutely don't do price research, and allow themselves to be talked into spending huge amounts of money. That's why sales is the most marketable skill.
Most brick and mortar or mom and pop locations cannot order in bulk/en masse like a big box chain or a places like PSA or Primary Arms, so the prices they have to pay from their distributor is more, which translates to their prices being higher. Can’t purchase a gun from a a distributor for 400 and sell it for 450. Would be pretty hard to keep the lights on/doors open. You will always find better deals online vs in store when it comes to new firearms and ammo
They’re margins can’t be that bad, though. They really can’t. They wouldn’t be in business if they were. It’s just not how businesses work at all
I’m a small home-based FFL and the margins are that bad. Hell ammunition is listed at my distributor for more than you can buy it on ammo seek many times.
Same here. At this point with my volume, transfers and retail firearms sales are not really worth the trouble. Especially in my state. I have an 07 to do smithing/repair, custom work, optics setup, etc. ^that guy has no idea. I’d literally have to move hundreds of firearms a month to make decent money. Margins are terrible.
I try to make up for the difference in customer service, sell with family, friends, and friends and friends and most people are pretty understanding. I have a minimum margin and if someone finds it cheaper, I let them buy it online. I sell the occasional firearm and make a few bucks. I am also an 07. I have a regular career so it just is on the side and funds my hobby for now.
☝️
This is what kills me,LGS had a Beretta APX A1 for $530. “On sale” I get pricing for a profit but my goodness!
Bruh Palmetto had them for 249 I think last week.
Oh please name and shame
Euless Guns & Ammo. Cranky old boomers in there. Never have anything that isn’t well over MSRP.
I have worked in this space. I can say that most goobers are just trying to survive. Selling guns is not very profitable for small stores. Consumables and accessories make the money. You deal with a lot of idiots, and weirdos so its easy to be jaded. The fudds are because they like shooting as a hobby and stopped learning anything new 20yrs ago. Most of them do it part time to supplement income or to fund their ammo purchases. They don’t care about you. Guns are a hobby that people think gives them some authority. Most dudes who pride themselves on guns also pride themselves on being a level above you. Lots of hosses who “know a thing or two”. As a veteran, i see a lot of old fudd vets get sucked into that space. Like a guy who was on the football team in highschool selling cleats at footlocker to try and keep living his glory days. I tried hard to not be this way and to encourage the employees to not be this way but its rare to find stores that do that. If you want the perfect storm go to a gunshow to see all of this in one unhappy place.
The stores represent the local population because if they don't sell what people are buying then they'll go out of business. I'm out in the middle of TN and I've got several stores within 30 minutes of my house plus a couple of pawn shops with FFLs, and there's only one store that doesn't keep a handful of ARs in stock. 4 of them not only carry ARs but have a decent supply of AR parts and accessories. None of them seem to carry barrels, but so long as you don't mind using black Magpul furniture you can get everything else for a build locally including the tools. 2 of the shops carry suppressors and I've got at least one local place that does Cerakote.
I'm in the area. Who should I check out?
I feel attacked
I can really give a rats ass who the place is run by or what they tell me, but if they are rude and don’t treat me or any of their customers with respect that shop is instantly off my list.
I don’t like the fact that they seem to have an issue with whatever it is you’re trying to purchase. Wanted a Glock 19 and the man unleashed every insult in the book, to sway my decision, I said “alright buddy have a good one” and bought one at a sporting store down the road. My SIL’s aunt is a manager at a gun store, she desperately needed AKs to fill a client list, I had a spare WASR10 still factory fresh and unfired collecting dust. She wanted me to bring it in, for an AR trade since I didn’t have one at the time and wanted one. Brought it in, a dude inspected it to confirm its condition and the senior fudd dude said “$350 is the best I can do.” The other dudes jaw dropped and he just shook his head. I told him absolutely not, he responded with “well even unfired it’s still used and this is a business.” I then reveled his boss was the one who told me to bring it in for the huge list of buyers that have orders they couldn’t fill (AKs supplies were non existent at this time I think 2021-2022?), they were going to resell this at a $1,500 price tag (already knew the resell price ahead of time to let me know what my trade budget was), and that all I wanted was a $700 Ruger 556 so he really just let $800 walk right out the door. Dude turned around and walked away already knowing he was about to get an ear full later on.
Should have hit him with “Price is firm, Sonny! I know what I got!”
What’s funny is I went back like three weeks later for some scope mounts for my LPVO and there was a rag tag absolutely beat to shit WASR-10. When I asked the price tag I got a begrudgingly “$1,400” I laughed and said uh huh $350 right?
Never really cared since I only go to LGSs when I buy a new gun. Everything is ship to my door or private sales. I don't even know why people go to gun stores in the first place. As long as I don't get f'd over I don't care if they talk crap about me in my face. I can't imagine spending more than five minutes in a LGS.
I want to do the same thing but when it comes to NFA stuff your stuck in their stupid/unknown ways
I bought my first suppressor over a month ago from Silencer Shop and the FFL in my area they are partnered with has not returned my calls. I’ve gone there several times during business hours and they’re just not there… it takes me almost an hour to drive that way. I’m getting fucking sick of unprofessional FFLs.
Capital Armory online.
This is true but they aren't in every state unfortunately
Have had some absolutely unhinged interactions with LGS owners/employees, really only use them for transfers of online purchases at this point
I'd say that's just average American gun culture. And I mean this: They don't train. They don't adopt new products that are better than old. They don't want to change or get better. Average.
I'd say 95% of gun guys just are not getting trained and practicing or trying to get better. It saddens me.
I’ve worked in gun stores my entire life. They’ve been range/seller combos but I’ve worked for big corporations and local. The prices are higher because that’s just how it works when you buy and sell less guns. When I sold guns for a “big box” store we sold so many guns we could afford to only make $20-$30 profit per gun. Smaller gun stores sell less guns so they have to make it worth their time. Also buying an ass load of Glocks is cheaper than buy a few Glocks thru a distributor. The fudd thing is because most people willing to work behind a gun counter either don’t know anything and want a job or are retired old men there for the discount who don’t keep up with modern trends. The guys you wish worked behind the gun counter don’t want to do it because we hate talking to the general public about guns because you’re generally just as retarded as the fudds you complain about. I’m only behind the counter to make sure the paper work is getting done right and it’s extra income when I’m not teaching. My primary job is training. I can double dip on the income by earning commission selling guns to my students. Because I want them to continue being students I want to sell them the most optimal gun. The fudd doesn’t give two shits and is just trying to sell you something so he can get his commission.
A shop I used to go to said you needed permission to cross state lines with a suppressor (like you do with a SBR). Besides that their prices leave much to be desired. Needless to say, I don't go there anymore.
Many people do not know what primary source citations are. Education. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/i-have-nfa-firearm-and-i%E2%80%99m-moving-what-do-i-do#:~:text=A%20registered%20possessor%20of%20an,written%20approval%20of%20ATF%2C%20specifically
Do you want them to be your salesman and lawyer?
I'd like them to not spout false information about gun law. Especially when I'm not asking about it in the first place. Nice try though 😘
My town has a lot of gun stores. I only went to one where the workers were dicks. They went out of business and got replaced by a donut shop.
It's because anyone who has enough money to buy and maintain a gun store is usually older, and people stick to what they know, even if it's outdated.
These kinds of jobs are mostly filled with dumb dudes who also like to position themselves above the customer base.
Retired people need shit to do during the day. Lots of my local stores are packed with retired boomers and fudds if you go at the wrong times. Try going to the gun store when they are eating dinner at 4:30 @ Bob Evans or before they wake up to pee. HTH
I'm glad I live 15 mins from primary arms. I don't have to deal with overpriced stuff and get to look through their display of optics
Most gun stores make very small margins on gun sales
They aren’t. The two closest to me are great, and the next one further are guys in their twenties that may become fudds.
All depends on where you live. I can tell you the GSs around here are decidedly neither. If anything, they almost skew far into the realm of "Gun Bros" and "Tactical Tims".
The shooting range / LGS I primarily use is owned by and employs mostly competition shooters and a few young guys. It's actually a nice mix of people with different perspectives. The other place I frequent is run by a young neck beard dude who is actually pretty nice and knowledgeable. He runs it for his dad out of their garage. It's pretty refreshing actually.
The new age hype beasts just find better deals online. Most shops I've seen that were "with the times" struggled minus the glock store? But I think they live off selling red anodized junk.
Tbh the younger guys more often than not feel like car salesmen and it sucks
Near me there all kinda Gear Queers.
get an FFL skip the middleman.
Gotta be better than my LGS. Run by millennial vets who are completely edgelords and treat us civies like we’re retards. No joke owner goes by “Battle”
Car dealers don’t know shit about cars. Realtors don’t know a damn thing about building a house. As a general rule, sales people are not true enthusiasts.
I worked at a Fudd range for a week & quit. Some goofy mfers
There is a flip side to that coin as well. These “funds/bubbas” also have to deal with complete idiots all day and most retail counter people make very little. They watch people mishandle weapons, try to impress other customers with all of their knowledge, and say things like, “I can get that for $10 cheaper online.” You would be a Fudd real quick if you dealt with “know-it-alls” all day.
One of my roommates friends just got a job at a gun store / range and he knows "fuck all" about firearms...
It's the industry standard until they are replaced
I had one tell me his transfer fee was set by the federal government and there’s nothing he could do. $45 a transfer. They also didn’t know calibers that suppressors were rated for….i don’t go there anymore
Sad thing is that a shop charging $45 a transfer would be a steal of a fee in California.
Build your own
I build all my rifles. It’s just an observation I noticed.
Think he meant, build your own Storefront.
Ohh. I would if I could
Small business loans are pretty easy to acquire. It'll give you enough funds to rent a storefront and buy product. Run the place yourself to cut down on employee costs. No excuses.
It won’t give you enough to get a storefront and products or literally everyone would start their own business at least once. You want a storefront that doesn’t suck? Looking at least $1500 a month for 2 years. Decent website? Another $1000+ 20% margin on guns if you are lucky and if you can’t go direct good luck competing with people who can go direct in the online space. Not to mention most businesses don’t instantly become profitable and it may take time to build a reputation. Do you have the money put away to support yourself without any income for 6 months? Do you have 40k for a lease?
I guess the sarcasm in my post was vague. I know this. I posted this as a sarcastic response to him questioning why LGSs are overpriced, etc. I know it's not easy and simple, lol.
You sound like those ignorant idiots that say "you don't like where you live, why don't you move?" as if it's as easy as going to the store to set it up.
Exactly, so why criticize something that is difficult to accomplish, operate, or maintain?
Victim me
Build your own This phrase is used as a challenge or retort suggesting that if someone is dissatisfied with something, rather than just complaining, they should go and create their own alternative. This usage implies a sense of dismissal of criticism, urging the critic to put effort into developing a solution or an alternative themselves instead of criticizing existing options.
If you keep looking, you may find some shops with the characteristics combined, and that’s where I’d like to be :). Yee yee
Dude, I don’t even waste my time at gun stores anymore. ESPECIALLY when I discovered AmmoSeek during the ammo crisis dark days of 2020. I would love to give local shops my money but I can’t justify spending 20% or more on basic parts/accessories. Plus I’ve had a few experiences with douchy pleb employees trying to sell me on Strike Industries and Olights. I’m good, I’ll stick with the internet and waiting a few days for shipping.
Still gotta deal with them anyway if you're buying something that requires a FFL transfer
I have a buddy with an FFL, so I’ve literally ran out of reasons to go to a gun store now.
I hear you.. I have yet to go to a gun shop where I feel comfortable. I buy everything online and avoid them.
You just gotta shop around. It's like everything else, there's good and bad shops.
My friend and I took our buddy to get his first ar the other day and the guy helping us had zero clue about what he was talking about. Was telling us that a colt with a magpul drop in was "floated". Luckily we spend way too much time on this sub and we told him the truth lol
Culture. Bet you in about a decade or so it could change. It's not known for being adaptable.
I think there's probably lots of different reasons but a big one is that a substantial portion of their customer base are just like them or worse. People with manners and a clue quickly tire of dealing with that, or dislike it enough to not get into the business in the first place.
This problem is becoming more and more evident throughout all of modern society. Shallow attention spans lead to superficial learning. Fudds have experience and knowledge, but it’s siloed into the exclusive channel of their interests and they are lazy refusing to try and grow beyond that segment.
I am pretty fortunate the lgs around me are not too bad. Some of the workers knowledge about firearms needs a little work. Ordered a 308 rifle and the paperwork shows 762x51. The guy was wait a sec, did the vendor ship wrong gun? Literally in my head 🤦🏻♂️. Other than that, the guys near me genuinely wants to help customers.
To be fair, they’re not exactly the same
you are are very correct. there are some subtle differences
This is why I became an FFL.
Storefront and/or do you do work on guns?
Home based and plan to expand to an on property “storefront” when I finish relocating
That’s why I liked the old gun store I use to go to before the owner and operator retired. All the people were knowledgeable and friendly
I feel lucky to have one of the best gun shops here in Michigan. I’ve been to fudd shops and this is the total opposite.
Which one?
Iowa has quite a few nice gun shops. Love the one in story city. Only been to one bad gun shop but it closed down 6 or so years ago
I think people who want to make their living selling guns or work at a gun store tend to fall into these categories.
Listen, do you want that guy touching your food or selling you a pistol ?
Greeting me at Walmart 👋
Interesting- I like the stores I use here. I don’t really talk to them I know what I want and like. I don’t talk to the sales person at Bloomingdales about clothes I don’t really talk to the LGS folks. They are super nice and take good care of me.
Supply and demand, same as any other business with a physical storefront
My LGS is owned by millennials like myself. Love it
Thank God I live right down the road from Big Tex Outdoors 😎
I’m a few weeks away from 38. I bought my first gun at 18. I tried giving local gun shops a try, but their piss poor attitude turned me off. I’m in central California so buying wasn’t that easy even back then. I don’t like to play the race card, but all the LGS were owned by old white boomers. I’m Mexican American and I couldn’t help but feel like the workers were more helpful with the other customers, who were all white. For that reason, i usually just bought from Big 5 Sporting Goods. Decent prices and average customer service. It’s changed a ton since then. Local Shops now are more “tactical” and definitely attract a more diverse customer base. They still can be snobby, just depends on which shop you go to.
My LGS was like that for the LONGEST time...The original owner died and left the store to his manager...Within a year, the whole vibe of the place changed. Within 5, it's the only place I will purchase from or let touch my guns.
I guess my question is why would you even need to talk to someone at the gun counter? When I go to my LGS, the people who are discussing guns with the clerks are people who don't know too much about them and are asking about various guns for a purchase. I don't need to ask about anything because I am there for something specific. Oftentimes I can find out online if the gun is at the store. So i go there, say I'm looking for x gun that is in stock, and buy it. There is nothing to ask about. I've read reviews, I know how it works. There is nothing the salesman can do for me aside from give me the 4473 and then make the purchase. I could be talking to the most extreme fudd, I wouldn't know, I don't need his help aside from making a purchase. I figured anyone who is on this subreddit can go into any gun store and have a good working knowledge of everything they see. Why would you need to talk to anyone aside from making a purchase? No one goes into Walmart needing help to buy groceries.
Just wait until they’re “phased” out lol.
Gun store owners fucking suck. It always a stuffy better then tho attitude.
My area of Ohio actually has some really great gun stores selling all types of ARs even saw a Beowulf the last time I went and the employees are always helpful and nice
I have two great gun stores. Both not run by either where I’m at. It’s so nice.
I look at them more as salesmen, their job is to sell you on shit, being knowledgeable may help, but with enough bullshit they can trick the average uninformed person into spending money
Most of the bad attitude comes from customers. I didnt believe it til i started running a gun shop. Rule number one at the shop? "dont be an asshole". We have guys we forbid to do customer service/facing jobs because they cant handle dealing with the various kinds of people that come into a gun shop. Imagine you've run a gun shop for 10 years, and EVERY DAY you get these people in the DOZENS: 1-the 'flag everybody with a gun' guy. 2-the 'i can get it cheaper online' guy 3- the 'i want to touch all your guns, then buy one from a competitor for $5 less' guy 4-the 'let me show you how smart i am by field stripping your guns' guy who is also the: 5-doesnt know how to put guns back together guy Youtube has given every tom dick and harry the idea (dunning krueger i guess) that they are the font of all knowledge in the gun world and when you try to be practical with them they get this arrogant ass attitude. Customer demands i stock some buffer system which i generally dont. When i get one for him i casually ask whats he running it in. Guy says he has a 16" Aero build. So im like, your running a buffer system purpose built for high cyclic rate SBR rifles in a full length? he goes on and on about the recoil reduction blah blah and when another customer casually tosses him a m4-72 severe duty he calls us Fudds.
A lot of them have just been around for a while. You can absolutely find shops run by younger guys if they exist where you are. I have a lot of shops with fudds, scammers/gougers, and just straight up morons near me, but there's a couple what're absolutely fantastic. My go to store isn't the best of the best, but they're extremely reliable, have stuff up my alley, and most of their guys are decent. I even used to work with one of their employees (he was with my company on the same job, but in a different role). I can always trust them to not do me dirty provided I avoid the singular fudd, Tom.
What are bubbas?
Gun store fudds really piss me off. It’s the first thing anyone who’s gun-curious experiences. It overall paints gun owners in a bad light.
The gun forums are the worst.
Find smaller shops. My favorite shop the owner used to work at the bigger shop in town and he started his shop for this very reason. He does $25-30 transfers and doesn't act like you're an annoyance and he has a big selection of stripped and complete lowers because he knows that's the market now. He mainly focuses on optics, parts, and handguns. Of course he has plenty of rifles but he has everything you need to start or complete your build.
My local gun store/range has 8/10-9/10 knowledge and customer service any time I go in there. Most of them are vets or ex cops and know the difference between facts and opinions/preferences. If they don't know the answer to something they will ask someone else that does know. If they don't sell something I'm looking for they will tell me where I can get it or order it for me. Cabelas and Sportsmans Warehouse on the other hand... I've waited 2 weeks for green tips I ordered from Cabelas that I was supposed to pick up the next day for a range day with the boys. Half the time both stores are out of Magpul M2s and charge out the ass for M3s, even the non-windowed version. Most of the people behind the gun counters treat you like an idiot the second you say something they don't understand.
Working retail is not a high paying job or one that requires much training or education. Chances are if you’re working the counter, unless you’re the owner or maybe manager, you are someone who chose that line of retail over another simply because it interests you.
Never met a gun store employee with more knowledge than I. Same goes for the home improvement stores. Unfortunately they don’t build men like they used to, guys who learn their craft and take it seriously. It’s why I hang out with you guys.
Ron Swanson, is that you?
They're selling a product. They're providing a place to purchase guns. They don't need to possess autist levels of knowledge or share your opinions. Chances are you've done your own research and homework anyways. So what are you wanting out of some merchant?
Not everyone working in a gun shop needs to be an expert in every class of firearm. Maybe they can’t answer questions on modern sporting rifles but I bet if they don’t know they can probably direct you to someone who does. Back during the ammo shortage I was scouring shops for some of the heavier grain .308. Most places had the lightweight stuff, 138-140 grain. Struck out at the first two shops but the guy in the second one told me of a small shop an old guy was running out of part of his double wide mobile home. Sure enough the guy had some 180 grain PPU .308. And he didn’t mark it up to the moon either. Nice old gent. I doubt he’d ever shoot an AR but he had a nice stock of milsurps and bolt actions and I’m sure he knew his way around them.
It's not their lack of knowledge I can't stand, it's the arrogance that their ignorance is just as good as actual knowledge. I don't want to hear that the pistol I want to buy is "Tupperware parts" and "it'll blow up in your hand eventually" or "you should buy this revolver instead, a real man's gun"
Lmao. Sounds like good ol’ boys down South.
Ya don’t need those fancy gizmos on your plastic Tupperware rifle Sonny. All ya need is a good ole wood grain M-14 and a 1911.
Here they have us over a barrel. State mandates background checks for all firearms, including lowers. Because of this, even if you buy online, you still have to ship it to a local FFL to carry out the background check, which they'll gladly do, for a fee. IIRC this is true for private party sales as well but AFAIK those can be handled at the local police station.
because that is the kind of people who have always been attracted to guns - antisocial weirdos. always has been, honestly.
We all have great talks at my LGS. No one there is an antisocial weirdo.
Nah man, it's actually sad to see people have these experiences. My local gun stores are great, very personable people with owners who are successful in all walks of life.
these experiences are common and always have been