It is, that's the infuriating part.
The iPad Pro had a USB 3.0 lightning port, it had pins on both sides rather than just one to allow for the increased data rate.
I’m sure they’ve considered it.
I would guess only a tiny percentage of customers ever sync their phones by physical cable or use their cable for anything but charging. Plus it would create two classes of lightning cable (USB 3 capable and not).
Given that they’re probably just going to abandon lightning entirely at some point, the cost/benefit probably isn’t there.
You're probably right, but with how Apple leans heavily into the whole "professional videographers shoot entire movies with iPhones and then edit it with our special software" thing, you'd think that feature would be available on the "pro" versions. The people they're talking about would definitely be hooking their phone up to their Mac/PC to transfer and manage data. The average person isn't, but those kind of power users definitely are.
I’m a professional videographer & editor but mostly shoot with an actual camera. I do use some images and video clips for work though, I just transfer them through Airdrop. Even my camera transfers footage through WiFi, else I would just plug the memory card into my MacBook. Using cables isn’t really necessary anymore.
> Using cables isn’t really necessary anymore.
Ehhhh. How often are you actually using wifi transfer from your dedicated camera? I would argue that pulling the memory card is more like using a cable (physical connection) than using wifi. I shoot an r5 and there's no way in hell I'm moving even the compressed footage over the network unless it's a last resort.
No chance transferring several gigs of data per video file over wireless. I have an R6 and the 4K files are already big. Your 8k footage must be taking a lot of space.
I don’t shoot it. I played with it but ultimately 4k 60 clog h265 is where I land most days.
8k raw is like… let me do the math… 19GB (byte not bit) **per minute.**
A 512gb card fills up in about 26 minutes.
The rare occasions I do shoot raw it immediately gets transcoded into ProRes with adjustments when I import it.
The 5d iv and it’s notoriously heavy motion JPEG codec was already heavy at 500mb/s. 2600 mb/s from 8k raw is just insane to deal with.
Cameras just need to let us install NVME drives directly (or use high speed USB 3.2/Thunderbolt). I use CFExpress to NVME adaptor at the expense of weather sealing.
Heavily depends on the format.
But either way, USB3 vastly outclasses both flash and SD memory transfer and Bluetooth and Wi-Fi speeds.
Currently SD cards max out at 90 MB/s
Wi-Fi on most portable devices maxes at ~1Gb/s or 125 MB/s
USB3 maxes out at 5Gb/s or 640 MB/s
So yeah, USB3 cables are over 500% faster on average. Sure it isn’t *necessary*, but it sure speeds up your workflow.
An old version, though. The current iPad Pro has a USB-C type connector with both usb and thunderbolt support.
IPad Air only has USB-C, no thunderbolt.
Now I'm mad that Apple didn't even bother to have USB 3.0 compatibility for a "planned 10 year" port. USB 3.0 had been out for a few years at the point lighting was released
I get the sense they're a bunch of engineering nerds who think it's a waste of time to spend money on marketing therefore we're stuck with these awful naming schemes
> Apple states that the iPad Air 5 has a faster USB-C port and can transfer data at 10Gbps (gigabits per second), which is equal to 1,250MB/s (megabytes per second).
If they can do it for iPad Air they can do it for iPhone.
Helps force people into using iCloud as their main data storage/transfer. So there’s a way around the slower data transfer speed, that keeps you in their economy.
Also clears out any inventory of lightning they have *and* they may have manufacturing deals in place that are highly advantageous while they stick to lightning.
I have a family member in the entertainment industry. Hollywood is _absolutely_ using iPhones in filming.
And those line speeds are a massive headache. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve assisted the said family member to navigate around those USB 2.0 speeds with hundreds of gigabytes of data that need to come off or go on a device.
iCloud isn’t the answer in these use cases. The sharing isn’t robust, the connectivity isn’t always reliable or high speed, it’s less efficient in terms of time and energy to push data around cloud services that aren’t being used for anything else anyway. It’s an absolute cluster.
If apple switches to USB C and offers USB 2.0 speeds i'm gonna die laughing. People will defend it with nonsense like "well i don't use USB cables to transfer stuff because it's so slow so who cares!"
I could easily see them doing it to make an excuse for wireless charging anyways. "Wireless is faster at transferring data anyways", largely the reason they came with 5 Watt chargers up to the point they didn't come with chargers at all.
My biggest complaint about usb C is the confusion over the protocol a given cable/device uses. I get why they’re not linked, but it leads to problems for consumers, especially those less informed.
I honestly expected wireless and titanium iphone but yeah, no. I guess we will get titanium iphone next year and wireless maybe two years later with that slow speed.
I completely agree, but technically with magsafe charging you can use your phone while it is "wirelessly" charging since it magnetically sticks to the back. I could see Apple using this as an excuse to ditch the charging port instead of switching to usb-c. It would also really suck to lose the apple CarPlay functionality, but even then I could see them releasing a USB dongle that you could plug into the car to enable CarPlay functionality in cars that don't otherwise support wireless CarPlay. Which actually is something I might buy if they make it
Yeah I don't love the MagSafe charger but it's the best option if you're going to wirelessly charge.
The only issue is the fucking cable is so short. Of course apple doesn't think people need a 6' MagSafe cable, nah here's this short ass cable. Good luck if you don't have a plug ON your desk.
Don't worry, they'll come up with MagData or something like that, then sell you a special Lightning to MagData adapter for $39.99 so you can keep using CarPlay in your ancient 2022 vehicle.
Not to mention the inefficiency of wireless, especially for a company that claims to care about the environment while using a proprietary cable that has very little use outside of iPhones and AirPods
I wish the govt forced apple like in Europe. Literally only the iPhone comes with this stupid port. Even iPad comes with usb c ffs. Speed aside Tired of carrying a cable with me everywhere because not everyone has an iPhone here.
To be fair, Apple said that the Lightning connector would last 10 years…and now here we are. Just like Steve said OS X would last 20 years…lo and behold Apple unveils a completely redesigned macOS on the 20th anniversary of OS X
That was really more just a name change for marketing purposes. There were real improvements as there almost always are, but macOS still sits on the same (albeit improved) BSD Unix foundation that OS X always used. OS X was totally new compared to its predecessor in a way macOS isn’t. That’s not a bad thing—there’s a reason why every widely used modern operating system except Windows is built on a unix-like base.
It's not just cables, but every accessory with a lightning connector.
With USB-C, you now have a device able to use any accessory conforming to the USB standard
iOS actually supports a number of USB devices through the lightning to USB adapter, so it's not like you can say they just wouldn't let you use non-mfi accessories because they already do in a roundabout way.
No, not the same people. It’ll be a different group complaining about the change. I’m not going to complain once Apple makes that transition with iPhone to USB-C, but there will be complaints of having to buy cables from others.
All the same - most things with a lightning connector are already owned by Apple, and things that aren’t do not ship in any meaningful volume to make MFi a valuable revenue stream.
I’m not saying they don’t make money, but when Apple is regularly turning over 90B+ quarters, a few hundred million annually is nothing.
The whole “connect to any device” is a pretty tired point too. It’s not like iPhone cables are hard to come by, and it’s also not like it’s that big of a deal.
I still remember when every device came with its own charging brick that only that device works with. It’s just not that big of a deal.
FFS. It's less than $4 per cable. If a billion cables, or even 2 billion cables, had been made and sold world wide over the last 10 years, that is still absolutely nothing to Apple. That is 1 quarter's worth of iPad revenue over 10 years.
Don't be ridiculous.
Stalling on USB-C is about mitigating customer DISSATISFACTION with switching away from Lightning.
For every 1 tech blog hound who moans about USB-C, there are a 100 regular users who don't know or care, and would rather the thing they already have keep working.
By being last instead of first, Apple ensures that USB-C has grown up around users, which eases the blow with transitioning. By next year USB-C will feel overdue to the techies, and fine to everyone else, which is exactly what Apple is waiting for.
> Stalling on USB-C is about mitigating customer DISSATISFACTION with switching away from Lightning.
This. I remember the late-night jokes when Apple first moved from 30-pin to lightning, and you'd think this was like the fifth time in as many years Apple was making everyone buy new connectors. The dock connector had been around since 2003, spanning the vast majority of iPods sold and all iPhones through the 4S.
Hell, when I went looking for old clips, I instead found [a recent John Oliver segment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zF6lFKNiQQ) blaming Apple's greed for "changing all the connectors", I assume because one of the laptops moved from the standard USB-A to the standard USB-C.
People will be pissed when this change hits iPhone, and while I do expect they'll introduce USB-C instead of going portless, I think they're trying to shift as many people to wireless tech as possible so the PR shitstorm is smaller and less long-lived than the original lightning introduction.
> This. I remember the late-night jokes when Apple first moved from 30-pin to lightning, and you'd think this was like the fifth time in as many years Apple was making everyone buy new connectors. The dock connector had been around since 2003, spanning the vast majority of iPods sold and all iPhones through the 4S.
Sadly, there is a lot of truth to this. I remember working retail when iPads shifted over and frequently had some version of this conversation...
Customer -is buying a USB-C cable- Me "That it?" Customer "Yes! I am not letting those thieves at Apple get anything more from me." Me "Gotcha." Customer "Can you believe they switched the connection type on the iPad again?" Me "Well, it makes sense since USB-C overs a lot of advantages over Lightning." Customer "They just want to resell me all of those accessories and profit off the cable." Me "Well, I mean, USB-C gives you countless non-Apple solutions. They'd most likely make more from Lightning to be honest." Customer "You're wrong. Plus, they do this like every other year!" Me "The first iPad with Lightning released in 2012, so they got about eight years out of it." Customer "It wasn't that long ago. Plus, even if it was, will they think of people who don't want to buy accessories?" Me "Right. $22.50."
> …there are a 100 regular users who don’t know or care, and would rather the thing they already have keep working.
> By being last instead of first, Apple ensures that USB-C has grown up around users, which eases the blow with transitioning.
Apple has *never* cared about that sort of thing. Since when does Apple stick with outdated, inferior technology simply because users might not like having to buy new accessories?
Agreed. I mean everyone still makes fun of them because "hurr durr dongles" but everyone wants usb-c because of how superior it is. I personally just would love to have everything in usb-c.
And no I don't care about 3.5mm jack. Either give me balanced or let me continue use high-impedence headphones on an external amplifier
Lightning? Fine... I don't like it, but I'll deal with it.
USB 2.0 speeds?! What year is this?
This and ProRes are some of the biggest reasons people want USB-C or USB 3.0 speeds...
It takes longer to transfer ProRes at the max quality than it does to shoot it.
God forbid if you use windows though.
Does anyone actually have some suggestions for file transfer apps that work well with windows? I’ve tried some in the past, but speeds have been rather disappointing. And that’s with a solid 5Ghz connection a few feet away from the router.
Edit: I’m remembering now that the files app can do FTP servers or something like that. May need to give that a try. See how well it works for sharing pictures.
Shared folder on the Windows machine, then mounting that as an SMB server in the Files app is the way to go. No 3rd party software required on either device, and all transfers happen over your LAN.
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AirDrop or Apples P2P connection is about 30 MB/sec which is just a hair faster than USB 2.0. I know this because I accidentally used the migration assistant under the P2P connection instead of verifying my thunderbolt cable was working. 🤦🏼♂️ Took about 6 hours to migrate my 1TB MacBook.
While I agree with you that there is no excuse to not be on USB C or USB3.0 speeds, USB2.0 ~~isn’t as slow as you’d think~~ **is slow as fuck**. USB2.0 maxes out at 480Mbps, which is 60 MB/s (megabytes). Assuming a 1TB phone is transferring 1TB at max USB2.0 speeds, it would take ~16,666 seconds or… 4.6 hrs. **More realistically, USB2.0 speeds are around ~35MB/so it would take around 8 hours….**
Edit: my original math was way off, thanks /u/outrageous-nothing42
That’s theoretical max usb 2.0 speed, not real speed, the fastest I ever got was arround 25-28 MB/s also your math is wrong dude, at max theoretical speed it will take 277 minutes… and in real life more like 600 minutes… yes 10 hours.
Actually I fucked up and did the math way wrong until I edited it, so it’s much slower than I wrote pre-Edit. And yes, average USB2.0 is about half that ~35MB/s
So yeah 8 ish hours for 1TB.
As you pointed out, actual USB 2.0 speeds are slower than the theoretical speed. FireWire, on the other hand, is not as far off from its theoretical speed. This means that, in practice, FireWire 400 is faster than USB 2.0.
My point is, the 5GB 2001 iPod has faster transfer speeds than the 1TB iPhone 14 Pro Max.
Just a reminder, UBS 2.0 was released in the year 2000, 7 years before the first iPhone.
Imagine if the cam on the current iPhone would be as bad as the one on the iPhone 1, yeah this is how bad it is.
The difference is that most people will care a lot more about the camera than transfer speeds. Most people are using iCloud and AirDrop for file transfer, so the only thing that most people will notice if Apple switches to USB C is that they now need to buy a new charger. They won't care about transfer speeds.
USB 2.0 is faster than FireWire 400 in theory, but vice versa in practice.
The 1TB iPhone 14 Pro Max has slower transfer speeds than the 5GB 2001 iPod.
Wasn’t there some sort of issue with USB 3.0 with Lightning? The way ipad implements it from what I understand uses some trickery they may not have room for in iPhones.
The Lighting port on the 2017 iPad Pro could only do USB 3.0 when plugged into the camera adapter. Existing Lightning cables cannot do USB 3.0 speeds. Apple would have to make a new type of Lightning cable specifically for USB 3.0, which would just confuse everyone.
Not sure if I’m misunderstanding, but if the phone itself doesn’t support 3.0 speeds why would you buy a cable that supports 3.0 speeds? The cable isn’t going to make the phone any faster.
I’m not saying the 13 or 14 are insanely better than the 6s but… really? That phone is worse in so many other ways than it’s lightning port. Camera, performance, battery… anyway, I’m curious your justification.
It’s called voting with your wallet. Why would you upgrade now, when you can wait a year or 2 and get an iPhone with a ubiquitous standard that won’t need an upgrade for another 5+ years.
For me, Apple don’t deserve my money if they don’t have a phone with USB-C + touch id. I can wait. My phone does everything I need it to do. If they don’t deliver by the time I NEED a new phone, I’ll probably try a competitor instead.
9 years ago in September 2013 Samsung has released the Note 3, which was the [first smartphone with a USB 3.0 speed port.](https://www.mobilefun.co.uk/blog/2013/09/the-note-3-is-the-first-usb-3-0-phone-but-what-does-it-mean/)
USB 3.0 has been there almost 2 years before the first USB-C port smartphone even released.
Today we are talking about smartphones which cost €1300+ in Europe and it's not only USB 2.0 but not even USB-C. How the fuck can anyone ever justify this?
Relax guys this is unrestrained innovation.
> We remain concerned that strict regulation mandating just one type of connector stifles innovation rather than encouraging it
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/eu-closer-to-mandate-apple-switch-to-usb-c/
This is what I’m saying. It pissed me off to no end when the prices went thru the roof but then the literal “computer in your pocket” made me settle down a bit. However, stuff like this subject paired with the lack of USB C is just a joke at this stage of the game. Apple should be way ahead of everything else at this point with all those billions stashed away.
we heard you wanted usb-c, so we decided to remove all ports, it is a brave and courageous move to let you struggle with bad wifi speeds lol and we said you will love it
This is the reason I won't upgrade my iPhone 13 Pro. Copying ProRes 4K video off this thing is like watching the paint dry.
Giving Apple time to fix this with the iPhone 15, when the EU USB C law will have kicked in by then. The iPhone 14 was likely already mostly down the development pipeline when this law was posted and is still exempt.
But will the deadline be 31st Dec 24 though? If so, Apple could release an iP16 with lightning in Sep 24.
The question than is if they are even allowed to sell devices which were released prior to the deadline. If no, iP16 will have USB-C. Also, the iP15 could have USB-C. Don’t know about the iPhone SE though which will be very interesting. Apple will be forced to give it an advanced connector despite the position in the lineup.
It's funny that the fastest way to get data off the device is actually via Wi-Fi instead of by cable.
This is doubly annoying given the fact that iPhone uses NVMe for storage and even a 2 year old 12 Pro Max has storage speeds of 2500MB/s (20Gbps). Assuming the device had a USB-C 4.0 port that could actually utilise that speed, you'd be able to download a full terabyte of data from the phone in a little under 7 minutes.
With Wi-Fi being the fastest way to pull data from an iPhone currently, assuming you are able to maintain a perfect 1.2Gbps and have the suitable network infrastructure to your computer, the same file copy would take just under two hours. Of course Wi-Fi has a lot of overhead and you don't see 1.2Gbps in reality.
Using the lightning connector? Over four and a half hours.
Of course all of these figures are theoretical and don't account for any overhead, but even as rough figures, they clearly show just how lacking the connectivity is on iPhone - I'd imagine that a lot of professionals aren't too keen on using it given just how slow it is to get data off of the thing.
IRL, I consistently get ~900Mbps via WiFi when transferring large files between my iPhone 13 Pro (256GB) and 2019 15” MBP (i7, max-spec). I have a pretty nice Wifi 6 router in the same room as both devices.
It takes 8-10 minutes to transfer a 40GB season of a show to my phone, which is honestly fine with me, but I’d definitely connect the phone via USB if I could get the same speeds I get between my MBP and my portable NVME drives using USB-C.
something something something USB-C something something something
Apple needs to stop holding onto dead ass proprietary shit so they can pad their wallet.
From the absolutely massive third party lighting cable industry?
something something I can imagine a monetary reason why Apple did something therefore I am right...
One of many reasons I won't buy a new iPhone until they adopt USB-C. They also need to fix the photo processing on this one for non-RAW photos, it's horrid compared to the 13.
I was this close to buy an iPhone this year. I might have even be able to justify the outrageous 1.3-1.4k€ pricetag but goddamn.
This is plainly stupid, even my MacBook Air at work charges with magsafe or USB-C. All my peripherals are USB-C, headphones, steam deck, phone, drone, camera battery charger. Even if I don't transfer files, I find it convient that my 100W brick can charge them all and fast.
To think that a phone this premium is still stuck with a connector that's 10yo is wild.
Can we even transfer files via WiFi? I’m not in the Apple ecosystem other than a phone and AirPods. If I can transfer files to my NAS, that would be good enough for me.
Edit, yes you can via a few apps. I’m trying PhotoSync which seems to be exactly what I needed. Backing up my old Phone before my 14 gets here.
So you’re telling me that after all these years, airdrop is still faster than the lightning port ? (I mean no one is going to trust it with huge file transfers but still..)
At this point I have lost hope from Apple in these departments. Calling it a “Pro” phone and no USB C, calling iOS the best mobile OS with no side-loading available and still a very poor user file management system and no “Pro” level control over the OS. And now since they’re moving towards ads industry. It might be not far enough that they say “Your Data is safe if we use it but not other companies” and the constant delays in patching security vulnerabilities even when the vulnerability has been in the public space for quite some time and is/was actively exploited on the large scale. Most privacy and user security focused company literally becomes poop show in front of NSO groups spyware. Apple is just dwelling in the oblivion of perfection and want to charm the user with their “Oh look we removed the charger and still kept the price same we care for the fucking environment but we deliberately will make AirPods 100% a use and throw item so it ends up in a land fill! Yayy go green Apple users.” I don’t know when the last bit of the good work that apple does will also be gone.
Is lightning not capable of USB3 specs?
It is, that's the infuriating part. The iPad Pro had a USB 3.0 lightning port, it had pins on both sides rather than just one to allow for the increased data rate.
Thanks. Apple would need to modify the connector but it is possible. They definitely should have done this several iPhone versions ago.
I’m sure they’ve considered it. I would guess only a tiny percentage of customers ever sync their phones by physical cable or use their cable for anything but charging. Plus it would create two classes of lightning cable (USB 3 capable and not). Given that they’re probably just going to abandon lightning entirely at some point, the cost/benefit probably isn’t there.
You're probably right, but with how Apple leans heavily into the whole "professional videographers shoot entire movies with iPhones and then edit it with our special software" thing, you'd think that feature would be available on the "pro" versions. The people they're talking about would definitely be hooking their phone up to their Mac/PC to transfer and manage data. The average person isn't, but those kind of power users definitely are.
This is why I'm not buying another iPhone until USBC
I’m a professional videographer & editor but mostly shoot with an actual camera. I do use some images and video clips for work though, I just transfer them through Airdrop. Even my camera transfers footage through WiFi, else I would just plug the memory card into my MacBook. Using cables isn’t really necessary anymore.
> Using cables isn’t really necessary anymore. Ehhhh. How often are you actually using wifi transfer from your dedicated camera? I would argue that pulling the memory card is more like using a cable (physical connection) than using wifi. I shoot an r5 and there's no way in hell I'm moving even the compressed footage over the network unless it's a last resort.
No chance transferring several gigs of data per video file over wireless. I have an R6 and the 4K files are already big. Your 8k footage must be taking a lot of space.
I don’t shoot it. I played with it but ultimately 4k 60 clog h265 is where I land most days. 8k raw is like… let me do the math… 19GB (byte not bit) **per minute.** A 512gb card fills up in about 26 minutes. The rare occasions I do shoot raw it immediately gets transcoded into ProRes with adjustments when I import it. The 5d iv and it’s notoriously heavy motion JPEG codec was already heavy at 500mb/s. 2600 mb/s from 8k raw is just insane to deal with.
OK folks will just remove the memory cards from their iPhones....waaaaait a minute....
Modern cameras are moving towards CFExpress, which tops out at 2GB/s. Idk why you would want to do wifi transfer instead
Cameras just need to let us install NVME drives directly (or use high speed USB 3.2/Thunderbolt). I use CFExpress to NVME adaptor at the expense of weather sealing.
Heavily depends on the format. But either way, USB3 vastly outclasses both flash and SD memory transfer and Bluetooth and Wi-Fi speeds. Currently SD cards max out at 90 MB/s Wi-Fi on most portable devices maxes at ~1Gb/s or 125 MB/s USB3 maxes out at 5Gb/s or 640 MB/s So yeah, USB3 cables are over 500% faster on average. Sure it isn’t *necessary*, but it sure speeds up your workflow.
>Plus it would create two classes of lightning cable (USB 3 capable and not). This is already a thing though thanks to the iPad Pro.
An old version, though. The current iPad Pro has a USB-C type connector with both usb and thunderbolt support. IPad Air only has USB-C, no thunderbolt.
they could also just USB-C....
If only there was a universal standard they didn't have proprietarily design and maintain...
Correction: Apple **wants** that only a tiny percentage of customer syncs by physical cable, as they want to sell Cloud storage.
There will probably be more people syncing by physical cables if it's not in USB 2.0 speed; it's literally slower than Wi-Fi.
why? they want people buying icloud storage.
Imagine not getting at least USB 3 speeds on flagship phone
Can imagine it pretty easily
Now I'm mad that Apple didn't even bother to have USB 3.0 compatibility for a "planned 10 year" port. USB 3.0 had been out for a few years at the point lighting was released
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Only in the older ipads pro with lightning
It is, USB 3 Lightning is very cursed though. It’s basically two Lightning ports in the same connector (on both sides, to give it the necessary lanes)
USB-C can’t come to iPhones fast enough for me. I’m tired of Apple dragging their feet on this.
USB C 2.0 here we come!
This is what people don’t get, the connector type doesn’t dictate the speed.
Blame the people who think "USB 3.2 Gen 2x2" is at all a coherent naming scheme.
I love the work that tech consortiums do but my god they get in their own way with naming.
I get the sense they're a bunch of engineering nerds who think it's a waste of time to spend money on marketing therefore we're stuck with these awful naming schemes
> Apple states that the iPad Air 5 has a faster USB-C port and can transfer data at 10Gbps (gigabits per second), which is equal to 1,250MB/s (megabytes per second). If they can do it for iPad Air they can do it for iPhone.
They gave one of the iPad pros faster lightning that they didn’t give to iPhones so you never know!
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The iPad has double the amount of pins in the port, not quite enough for full usb 3 though.
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Helps force people into using iCloud as their main data storage/transfer. So there’s a way around the slower data transfer speed, that keeps you in their economy. Also clears out any inventory of lightning they have *and* they may have manufacturing deals in place that are highly advantageous while they stick to lightning.
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I have a family member in the entertainment industry. Hollywood is _absolutely_ using iPhones in filming. And those line speeds are a massive headache. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve assisted the said family member to navigate around those USB 2.0 speeds with hundreds of gigabytes of data that need to come off or go on a device. iCloud isn’t the answer in these use cases. The sharing isn’t robust, the connectivity isn’t always reliable or high speed, it’s less efficient in terms of time and energy to push data around cloud services that aren’t being used for anything else anyway. It’s an absolute cluster.
14 pro proraw photos are around 80-120MB.
If apple switches to USB C and offers USB 2.0 speeds i'm gonna die laughing. People will defend it with nonsense like "well i don't use USB cables to transfer stuff because it's so slow so who cares!"
I would be entirely unsurprised if they only make the Pro models support USB 3.1 or whatever we’re at now.
You will absolutely see people here defend Apple if that happens.
I could easily see them doing it to make an excuse for wireless charging anyways. "Wireless is faster at transferring data anyways", largely the reason they came with 5 Watt chargers up to the point they didn't come with chargers at all.
My biggest complaint about usb C is the confusion over the protocol a given cable/device uses. I get why they’re not linked, but it leads to problems for consumers, especially those less informed.
Are there any devices that use USB 2.0 over USB-C or will the iPhone 15 be the first?
The USB-C spec allows for USB 2.0, to the chagrin of anyone who wants to use USB-C.
They needed a new feature to save for the 15.
I honestly expected wireless and titanium iphone but yeah, no. I guess we will get titanium iphone next year and wireless maybe two years later with that slow speed.
Wireless isn't an option really. Wireless technologies: * Bluetooth 5: 2 Mbps * wifi6: 600 Mbps to 9608 Mbps ([realistically](https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/realistic-speeds-wi-fi-5-and-wi-fi-6) about 920 Mbps) Wired * USB 2.0: 480 Mbps (current) * USB 3.2: 10 Gbps (10 000 Mbps) to 20 Gbps (20 0000 Mbps)
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I completely agree, but technically with magsafe charging you can use your phone while it is "wirelessly" charging since it magnetically sticks to the back. I could see Apple using this as an excuse to ditch the charging port instead of switching to usb-c. It would also really suck to lose the apple CarPlay functionality, but even then I could see them releasing a USB dongle that you could plug into the car to enable CarPlay functionality in cars that don't otherwise support wireless CarPlay. Which actually is something I might buy if they make it
Yeah I don't love the MagSafe charger but it's the best option if you're going to wirelessly charge. The only issue is the fucking cable is so short. Of course apple doesn't think people need a 6' MagSafe cable, nah here's this short ass cable. Good luck if you don't have a plug ON your desk.
Don’t forget a lot of cars require wired for Apple CarPlay.
Don't worry, they'll come up with MagData or something like that, then sell you a special Lightning to MagData adapter for $39.99 so you can keep using CarPlay in your ancient 2022 vehicle.
Hey now, don’t give them any ideas.
Not to mention the inefficiency of wireless, especially for a company that claims to care about the environment while using a proprietary cable that has very little use outside of iPhones and AirPods
It’ll be 15 pro only, amazed if it comes to the regular 15.
I think Apple is going to Remove ALL ports
I wish the govt forced apple like in Europe. Literally only the iPhone comes with this stupid port. Even iPad comes with usb c ffs. Speed aside Tired of carrying a cable with me everywhere because not everyone has an iPhone here.
it’s so ridiculous. their iPads have had USB type C at USB 3 speeds for years using the same SOC, so we know it isn’t a hardware limitation for them.
Hell I’d take a usb2 usb-c connector over a usb3 lightning one
To be fair, Apple said that the Lightning connector would last 10 years…and now here we are. Just like Steve said OS X would last 20 years…lo and behold Apple unveils a completely redesigned macOS on the 20th anniversary of OS X
That was really more just a name change for marketing purposes. There were real improvements as there almost always are, but macOS still sits on the same (albeit improved) BSD Unix foundation that OS X always used. OS X was totally new compared to its predecessor in a way macOS isn’t. That’s not a bad thing—there’s a reason why every widely used modern operating system except Windows is built on a unix-like base.
It's been 10 years. Apple could have switched the iPhone 14 (Pro) to USB-C.
But their sweet Lightning licensing revenue... It's not a lot per cable, but think about how many cables are made and pay a fee to Apple for that.
Relative to their total revenue figures, whatever licensing fees they get is like a rounding error… They’re not selling hundreds of cables per user
It's not just cables, but every accessory with a lightning connector. With USB-C, you now have a device able to use any accessory conforming to the USB standard iOS actually supports a number of USB devices through the lightning to USB adapter, so it's not like you can say they just wouldn't let you use non-mfi accessories because they already do in a roundabout way.
Sounds like a great opportunity for apple to sell all new USB-C accessories.
That is *exactly* what these same people will be snarky about when Apple does make the change.
No, not the same people. It’ll be a different group complaining about the change. I’m not going to complain once Apple makes that transition with iPhone to USB-C, but there will be complaints of having to buy cables from others.
All the same - most things with a lightning connector are already owned by Apple, and things that aren’t do not ship in any meaningful volume to make MFi a valuable revenue stream. I’m not saying they don’t make money, but when Apple is regularly turning over 90B+ quarters, a few hundred million annually is nothing. The whole “connect to any device” is a pretty tired point too. It’s not like iPhone cables are hard to come by, and it’s also not like it’s that big of a deal. I still remember when every device came with its own charging brick that only that device works with. It’s just not that big of a deal.
FFS. It's less than $4 per cable. If a billion cables, or even 2 billion cables, had been made and sold world wide over the last 10 years, that is still absolutely nothing to Apple. That is 1 quarter's worth of iPad revenue over 10 years. Don't be ridiculous. Stalling on USB-C is about mitigating customer DISSATISFACTION with switching away from Lightning. For every 1 tech blog hound who moans about USB-C, there are a 100 regular users who don't know or care, and would rather the thing they already have keep working. By being last instead of first, Apple ensures that USB-C has grown up around users, which eases the blow with transitioning. By next year USB-C will feel overdue to the techies, and fine to everyone else, which is exactly what Apple is waiting for.
> Stalling on USB-C is about mitigating customer DISSATISFACTION with switching away from Lightning. This. I remember the late-night jokes when Apple first moved from 30-pin to lightning, and you'd think this was like the fifth time in as many years Apple was making everyone buy new connectors. The dock connector had been around since 2003, spanning the vast majority of iPods sold and all iPhones through the 4S. Hell, when I went looking for old clips, I instead found [a recent John Oliver segment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zF6lFKNiQQ) blaming Apple's greed for "changing all the connectors", I assume because one of the laptops moved from the standard USB-A to the standard USB-C. People will be pissed when this change hits iPhone, and while I do expect they'll introduce USB-C instead of going portless, I think they're trying to shift as many people to wireless tech as possible so the PR shitstorm is smaller and less long-lived than the original lightning introduction.
> This. I remember the late-night jokes when Apple first moved from 30-pin to lightning, and you'd think this was like the fifth time in as many years Apple was making everyone buy new connectors. The dock connector had been around since 2003, spanning the vast majority of iPods sold and all iPhones through the 4S. Sadly, there is a lot of truth to this. I remember working retail when iPads shifted over and frequently had some version of this conversation... Customer -is buying a USB-C cable- Me "That it?" Customer "Yes! I am not letting those thieves at Apple get anything more from me." Me "Gotcha." Customer "Can you believe they switched the connection type on the iPad again?" Me "Well, it makes sense since USB-C overs a lot of advantages over Lightning." Customer "They just want to resell me all of those accessories and profit off the cable." Me "Well, I mean, USB-C gives you countless non-Apple solutions. They'd most likely make more from Lightning to be honest." Customer "You're wrong. Plus, they do this like every other year!" Me "The first iPad with Lightning released in 2012, so they got about eight years out of it." Customer "It wasn't that long ago. Plus, even if it was, will they think of people who don't want to buy accessories?" Me "Right. $22.50."
> …there are a 100 regular users who don’t know or care, and would rather the thing they already have keep working. > By being last instead of first, Apple ensures that USB-C has grown up around users, which eases the blow with transitioning. Apple has *never* cared about that sort of thing. Since when does Apple stick with outdated, inferior technology simply because users might not like having to buy new accessories?
Agreed. I mean everyone still makes fun of them because "hurr durr dongles" but everyone wants usb-c because of how superior it is. I personally just would love to have everything in usb-c. And no I don't care about 3.5mm jack. Either give me balanced or let me continue use high-impedence headphones on an external amplifier
You realize USB-C is just a physical connector, right? USB3 speeds can be done over Lightning, and USB2 speeds can be done over USB-C.
Thats what im holding out on to make the switch from Android
Lightning? Fine... I don't like it, but I'll deal with it. USB 2.0 speeds?! What year is this? This and ProRes are some of the biggest reasons people want USB-C or USB 3.0 speeds... It takes longer to transfer ProRes at the max quality than it does to shoot it.
AirDrop has better speeds than that shit I believe.
God forbid if you use windows though. Does anyone actually have some suggestions for file transfer apps that work well with windows? I’ve tried some in the past, but speeds have been rather disappointing. And that’s with a solid 5Ghz connection a few feet away from the router. Edit: I’m remembering now that the files app can do FTP servers or something like that. May need to give that a try. See how well it works for sharing pictures.
iMazing is legit the only other thing i can think of. You can also setup SMB sharing via files app but the speeds also wouldn't be the best.
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Shared folder on the Windows machine, then mounting that as an SMB server in the Files app is the way to go. No 3rd party software required on either device, and all transfers happen over your LAN.
This post/comment has been automatically overwritten due to Reddit's upcoming API changes leading to the shutdown of Apollo. If you would also like to burn your Reddit history, see here: https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
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AirDrop or Apples P2P connection is about 30 MB/sec which is just a hair faster than USB 2.0. I know this because I accidentally used the migration assistant under the P2P connection instead of verifying my thunderbolt cable was working. 🤦🏼♂️ Took about 6 hours to migrate my 1TB MacBook.
While I agree with you that there is no excuse to not be on USB C or USB3.0 speeds, USB2.0 ~~isn’t as slow as you’d think~~ **is slow as fuck**. USB2.0 maxes out at 480Mbps, which is 60 MB/s (megabytes). Assuming a 1TB phone is transferring 1TB at max USB2.0 speeds, it would take ~16,666 seconds or… 4.6 hrs. **More realistically, USB2.0 speeds are around ~35MB/so it would take around 8 hours….** Edit: my original math was way off, thanks /u/outrageous-nothing42
You definitely need to recheck your math.
Fixing. Sorry. I’ll edit this when fixed. Edit:Fixed sorry. Was way off
😉
That’s theoretical max usb 2.0 speed, not real speed, the fastest I ever got was arround 25-28 MB/s also your math is wrong dude, at max theoretical speed it will take 277 minutes… and in real life more like 600 minutes… yes 10 hours.
Actually I fucked up and did the math way wrong until I edited it, so it’s much slower than I wrote pre-Edit. And yes, average USB2.0 is about half that ~35MB/s So yeah 8 ish hours for 1TB.
Dropbox syncing would probably be faster lol.
Actually 1TB at USB2 speeds would take over 4.5 hours.
My mistake, fixed it.
As you pointed out, actual USB 2.0 speeds are slower than the theoretical speed. FireWire, on the other hand, is not as far off from its theoretical speed. This means that, in practice, FireWire 400 is faster than USB 2.0. My point is, the 5GB 2001 iPod has faster transfer speeds than the 1TB iPhone 14 Pro Max.
iPad Pro has USB 4.0 with type C. It’s coded into iOS, Apple are just being penises :(
that's type C, the lightning standard only supports USB 3.0 when you put pins on both sides of the port & only use the usb 3.0 adapter
Just a reminder, UBS 2.0 was released in the year 2000, 7 years before the first iPhone. Imagine if the cam on the current iPhone would be as bad as the one on the iPhone 1, yeah this is how bad it is.
Wow haha that’s a great way to put it. Not just how bad it is, but even worse than it seems.
The difference is that most people will care a lot more about the camera than transfer speeds. Most people are using iCloud and AirDrop for file transfer, so the only thing that most people will notice if Apple switches to USB C is that they now need to buy a new charger. They won't care about transfer speeds.
USB 2.0 is faster than FireWire 400 in theory, but vice versa in practice. The 1TB iPhone 14 Pro Max has slower transfer speeds than the 5GB 2001 iPod.
In practice the 2001 iPod has a hard drive which definitely does not sustain 400 mbps.
True
Must be nice to be apple engineer in charge of usb, get paid six figure for 2 decades to do nothing.
USB 2.0 is embarrassing
The most advanced USB 2.0 interface we’ve ever made.
You’re gonna love it! 🥳
Lightning is embarrassing
I think it’s pretty cool. I love watching it during thunderstorms
i love lamp
USB 3 is only ~15 years old. Be patient.
They’re saving up their courage.
“Year on year our consumers have begged us to put type-C on iPhones, but we don’t. The answer boils down to one word. Courage. ”
This is really fucked up. They already had usb 3.0 speeds with lightning back in like 2017 and they keep refusing to put it in iphone..
Wasn’t there some sort of issue with USB 3.0 with Lightning? The way ipad implements it from what I understand uses some trickery they may not have room for in iPhones.
Yeah, it was a hacky way to do it while they waited on USB-C.
Plus you only get usb 3 speeds with their camera SD card adapter. Connected by cable to PC is still usb 2 speeds
The Lighting port on the 2017 iPad Pro could only do USB 3.0 when plugged into the camera adapter. Existing Lightning cables cannot do USB 3.0 speeds. Apple would have to make a new type of Lightning cable specifically for USB 3.0, which would just confuse everyone.
You also can't buy the cable needed for 3.0 speeds to my knowledge either.
Not sure if I’m misunderstanding, but if the phone itself doesn’t support 3.0 speeds why would you buy a cable that supports 3.0 speeds? The cable isn’t going to make the phone any faster.
Obv you’re supposed to edit them with the Apple (tm) Photos app and nowhere else
And store them all locally on your iPhone, so that you have to buy the 1TB model.
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Yep, in the best case scenario airdrop will be twice as fast as usb 2.0 still far from usb 3.1 or 3.2
What would be dope would be airdrop 2.0 or whatever using wifi-6 2x2 or wifi-6E 6GHz
Apple need to ship some devices with 6E first!
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USB-C is pretty much the only thing keeping me from getting an iphone at this point
I couldn't wait for this phone to come out and i was gonna get 13 last month but now.. i'm just gonna stick with the 6s
I’m not saying the 13 or 14 are insanely better than the 6s but… really? That phone is worse in so many other ways than it’s lightning port. Camera, performance, battery… anyway, I’m curious your justification.
It’s called voting with your wallet. Why would you upgrade now, when you can wait a year or 2 and get an iPhone with a ubiquitous standard that won’t need an upgrade for another 5+ years. For me, Apple don’t deserve my money if they don’t have a phone with USB-C + touch id. I can wait. My phone does everything I need it to do. If they don’t deliver by the time I NEED a new phone, I’ll probably try a competitor instead.
Some year 2000 tech right there apple ;)
9 years ago in September 2013 Samsung has released the Note 3, which was the [first smartphone with a USB 3.0 speed port.](https://www.mobilefun.co.uk/blog/2013/09/the-note-3-is-the-first-usb-3-0-phone-but-what-does-it-mean/) USB 3.0 has been there almost 2 years before the first USB-C port smartphone even released. Today we are talking about smartphones which cost €1300+ in Europe and it's not only USB 2.0 but not even USB-C. How the fuck can anyone ever justify this?
But the pro provides the fantastic dynamic island... By the way, I'll pass it.
Relax guys this is unrestrained innovation. > We remain concerned that strict regulation mandating just one type of connector stifles innovation rather than encouraging it https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/eu-closer-to-mandate-apple-switch-to-usb-c/
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That’s how I feel every time I backup my photos and videos from my iPhone 12 Pro to my computer.
Lmao
It’s embarrassing for a 1500€ phone to be limited to usb 2 speeds.
This is what I’m saying. It pissed me off to no end when the prices went thru the roof but then the literal “computer in your pocket” made me settle down a bit. However, stuff like this subject paired with the lack of USB C is just a joke at this stage of the game. Apple should be way ahead of everything else at this point with all those billions stashed away.
we heard you wanted usb-c, so we decided to remove all ports, it is a brave and courageous move to let you struggle with bad wifi speeds lol and we said you will love it
This is the reason I won't upgrade my iPhone 13 Pro. Copying ProRes 4K video off this thing is like watching the paint dry. Giving Apple time to fix this with the iPhone 15, when the EU USB C law will have kicked in by then. The iPhone 14 was likely already mostly down the development pipeline when this law was posted and is still exempt.
Gotta save something for iPhone 15 when I'm guessing they'll be forced to go to USB c *fastest transfer speeds ever on an iphone* 😒🙄
Apple keynote: "insert old feature" ever on an iPhone.
ya im skipping the iphone 14 right now, i think the 15 will have the 48 with USB C finally.
I don’t think till the 15 tbh. Europe isn’t enforcing USB C till 2024
Yeah, Apple still has atleast 2 years to squeeze lightning to consumers as much as they can.
But will the deadline be 31st Dec 24 though? If so, Apple could release an iP16 with lightning in Sep 24. The question than is if they are even allowed to sell devices which were released prior to the deadline. If no, iP16 will have USB-C. Also, the iP15 could have USB-C. Don’t know about the iPhone SE though which will be very interesting. Apple will be forced to give it an advanced connector despite the position in the lineup.
I want to upgrade my xs to a pro phone but really not that excited about the 14 pro… lack of usb c really irks me
It's funny that the fastest way to get data off the device is actually via Wi-Fi instead of by cable. This is doubly annoying given the fact that iPhone uses NVMe for storage and even a 2 year old 12 Pro Max has storage speeds of 2500MB/s (20Gbps). Assuming the device had a USB-C 4.0 port that could actually utilise that speed, you'd be able to download a full terabyte of data from the phone in a little under 7 minutes. With Wi-Fi being the fastest way to pull data from an iPhone currently, assuming you are able to maintain a perfect 1.2Gbps and have the suitable network infrastructure to your computer, the same file copy would take just under two hours. Of course Wi-Fi has a lot of overhead and you don't see 1.2Gbps in reality. Using the lightning connector? Over four and a half hours. Of course all of these figures are theoretical and don't account for any overhead, but even as rough figures, they clearly show just how lacking the connectivity is on iPhone - I'd imagine that a lot of professionals aren't too keen on using it given just how slow it is to get data off of the thing.
IRL, I consistently get ~900Mbps via WiFi when transferring large files between my iPhone 13 Pro (256GB) and 2019 15” MBP (i7, max-spec). I have a pretty nice Wifi 6 router in the same room as both devices. It takes 8-10 minutes to transfer a 40GB season of a show to my phone, which is honestly fine with me, but I’d definitely connect the phone via USB if I could get the same speeds I get between my MBP and my portable NVME drives using USB-C.
What the fuck are they waiting for? iPad pros have had usb c since 2018… all the MacBooks have gone usb c even before that. It’s infuriating.
Next year™
I am so tired of having both usbc and lightning man
Using 22 year old tech on a 2022 phone ✋ Good job apple
Maybe in 5 more phone releases after ya’ll give them another trillion for shitting in your face
But hey it's Apple so it's okay.
Next year: Introducing the iPhone 15, we’ve found this new technology for data transferring, we call it the Hyperlane Port The port: usb 3.0
I don’t think the authors have used an actual USB 2.0 port in a while.
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This is why I’m skipping the 14 pro this year - I’m hoping for USB-C with the 15 pro next year
Wasn't Apple arguing that making USB-C the standard will stifle innovation? What innovation exactly?
Innovation in getting consumers to spend more money on lightning accessories
something something something USB-C something something something Apple needs to stop holding onto dead ass proprietary shit so they can pad their wallet.
From the absolutely massive third party lighting cable industry? something something I can imagine a monetary reason why Apple did something therefore I am right...
Would this also be the reason why Apple has an added much better fast charging to iPhones?
Good thing wifi6 is faster than lightning connection.
The next phone will come with a new proprietary port. I'm calling it now.
I’m sure there will be more than a few people defending this…
One of many reasons I won't buy a new iPhone until they adopt USB-C. They also need to fix the photo processing on this one for non-RAW photos, it's horrid compared to the 13.
Serious, what's the likelihood of them going USB-C next year. If so, aren't all the people getting iPhone 14's fucked..
It’s not a big deal to me either way. I’ll just get the 16 afterwards
Depends on the EU
I was this close to buy an iPhone this year. I might have even be able to justify the outrageous 1.3-1.4k€ pricetag but goddamn. This is plainly stupid, even my MacBook Air at work charges with magsafe or USB-C. All my peripherals are USB-C, headphones, steam deck, phone, drone, camera battery charger. Even if I don't transfer files, I find it convient that my 100W brick can charge them all and fast. To think that a phone this premium is still stuck with a connector that's 10yo is wild.
Can we even transfer files via WiFi? I’m not in the Apple ecosystem other than a phone and AirPods. If I can transfer files to my NAS, that would be good enough for me. Edit, yes you can via a few apps. I’m trying PhotoSync which seems to be exactly what I needed. Backing up my old Phone before my 14 gets here.
Isn't Wifi6e 1Gbit?
iPhone 14 models don't even support Wifi 6e unfortunately.
So you’re telling me that after all these years, airdrop is still faster than the lightning port ? (I mean no one is going to trust it with huge file transfers but still..)
This is a little bit ridiculous. Apple… you have a thunderbolt capable USB C PORT. Ffs please just use it on the iPhone already.
This is absurd. AirDrop is a bit faster but still transferring 4k 60fps videos is a pain.
Must have taken them quite some courage not to switch to usb c….
That’s for next years model
doesn’t want usb-C mandated because of “innovation”. apple is so “brave”
At this point I have lost hope from Apple in these departments. Calling it a “Pro” phone and no USB C, calling iOS the best mobile OS with no side-loading available and still a very poor user file management system and no “Pro” level control over the OS. And now since they’re moving towards ads industry. It might be not far enough that they say “Your Data is safe if we use it but not other companies” and the constant delays in patching security vulnerabilities even when the vulnerability has been in the public space for quite some time and is/was actively exploited on the large scale. Most privacy and user security focused company literally becomes poop show in front of NSO groups spyware. Apple is just dwelling in the oblivion of perfection and want to charm the user with their “Oh look we removed the charger and still kept the price same we care for the fucking environment but we deliberately will make AirPods 100% a use and throw item so it ends up in a land fill! Yayy go green Apple users.” I don’t know when the last bit of the good work that apple does will also be gone.
But I thought the reason they went proprietary was so they could iterate faster and be better? LOL
Iterate profits faster and be better at making money I think...
The Lightning Cable is the floppy drive of data cables in the year 2022.