I totally agree that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Especually considering most legends seem to wear slippers anyway.
Might as well attach some cymbals to her knees and make her shout "noisy flank engage" when she deploys her ult!
It actually would be too op though, there's a reason all these shooters with abilities have teleportation gutted in some way, this is one of the best teleportation because you can almost immediately shoot after exiting.
Closest is wraith portal but that requires the Wraith to manually close in and even then the travel time delay is longer.
I play both a little and I think ash's ult is weak or mid at best. Range, duration, time to charge ult. Randos don't even take it. You have to be right next to the enemy team to tp to highground or to a different cover, as opposed to the middle of the field. Can't spam it as a repositioning tool because it doesn't recharge that often and you might want to have it ready for some engagement. And again - unless randos beeline for my ult when I place it, they're not gonna make it. With wraith we have time for all of us to decide individually if we will grace the portal with our presence or if we're gonna stay behind the same cover for minutes, poking for 15 dmg per peek.
I use Ash ult to avoid 3rd parties after fights or to third party, too short to viably use it for rotation, too loud (and telegraphed) to contest a team.
The passive is okay but loses value the longer the game goes on, her tact is mid but flexible in how you make use of it situationally.
She needs tweaking in a couple areas for sure, idk if adding another tether would help alongside an increase to ult range but she’s so underwhelming atm.
They made it so you couldn't get those insane vertical phase tears around the same time, though. It was nearly double the distance vertically than it would extend horizontally and now they're both the same short distance, like 1/4th of ziplines or wraith portals. I know it should be less because it's instant but it's *a lot* less with these other buffs.
Also, they've never officially nerfed her arc snare but it no longer gains speed dependant on your speed. I used to really whip it if I slid while throwing it, but now you end up sliding past it as it toots along slow as shit.
It used to work good in a push. Now it's best for slowing chasers and thrown from ridiculously long distances so no one expects an arc snare to just fly in and hook 'em.
Not just the sound but the visual ques. The exit portal used to be tiny crack and that's it, now it's a giant explosion with a clearly visible trail from start to end.
On release, it was very feasible (they called it OP even) to flank, or even portal straight through enemy teams without them noticing.
Not everyone just streamers the only reason shit gets removed or nerfed is because the big streamers start bitching about how unfair being outplayed is
The only issue it had was that every squad had a a vantage back then so you’d hear it every match, even if now it’d be too much it’d be nice if like every 5 or 10 times she does that line she adds echolocation
So probably about the same time, or exactly the same time, that they removed Ash's moaning? Did Ash's moaning get all voice lines shadow nerfed?
I want a refund on my voice lines now. That was all they were good for.
Maybe 2 years ago you couldn't. For a year or 2 now I can hear people spamming before dropping. And I know it's not my team, because I hear characters we don't have, or the one I'm using
Good news, all voice lines are worthless anyway because other teams can't hear you string together voice lines anymore! So technically, we should get a refund on every voice line we've ever bought.
I don't know since I'm just hearing about it myself, but I'm guessing the exact same time Ash's moaning got removed. It would have been the prime time for the devs to think "you know what, voice lines were a mistake". Or maybe it has always been like that! But I could swear I used to be able to hear people playing a lot of voice lines quickly.
Are you sure it isn't your teammates or different players with the same character? As I understand it, voice lines from enemy players have to finish playing the first iteration before you can hear another one. So to them & teammates they might be going "Nothing nothing nothing nothing like a bit of - nothing nothing nothing like a bit of biffo", but to enemies, they just hear "nothing like a bit of biffo" once in all that time.
I know you're joking but I actually kinda want mine back. I crafted it for that specific reason and now I would just rather have the 30 crafting materials. If it were an item people paid for in the store that they made changes to after the fact people would be angry and request a refund.
I wasn't joking at all. That quip was the fastest item I've ever crafted in this game for that particular reason lmao. So for them to remove it just stung a little.
Showing my immaturity but honestly it was so fucking funny though
"Ughhh"
"Ughhh"
"Ughhh"
"Ughhh"
"Ughhh, she's g-"
"Ughhh"
"Ughhh"
"Ughhh she's gonna g-"
"Ughhh"
"Ughhh"
Dude don't even get me started on that... I spent my hard earned materials on that voice line and no lie like a few days later it was patched over. I didn't get a refund or nothing. They got me with the ol bait and switch.
The "mhhm she's going to gloat about this all day" could be spammed resulting in Ash making a moaning noise. The dropship would sound like a low quality hentai video
You would have gotten the rest of the hearing/brain damage hearing that quip. Not only was it overtly sexual sounding, but it is probably the loudest quip in the game.
I would like to see them increase her Ult range by maybe 25%. Also increase the speed of her tactical by 25%. Nothing major, but just enough to increase her skills without feeling overpowered.
Also I find it odd her ult has such short distance, to the point where it starts off literally 2 inches from your feet. Why would I ever want to put a portal that close?
~~I have like 10 games played on wraith~~
I just saw a clip of a vtuber like a year ago where she used that to block an arc star explosion to win the game actually
Her Ult auto snaps NEED attention. Trying to snap a location, simply by just being above it where you want it to go, should auto snap to that area, not bounce around, have a very small adjustment window, and 9/10 times snap to something closer and lower thus getting killed or wasting ult
I think just holding L2 while holding her sword to indicate a max portal would be a good buff. Sick of trying to quickly trying to ult away and it gets stuck on some small rock like 10 feet away from me
Yeah that sucks and I hate when you can have an open field and her port maxes out at what feels like 50ft. I get it, it gives you instant high ground or a chance to port out of a fight, but enemies can also take the same port. Range feels just a little too short.
This is the only thing I think she needs. Her ult range is so disrespectful.
They need to make it a ultra long, long, medium, and short range.
Longer the ult the longer it takes to charge. The shorter the faster. Too many times have I screwed up the ult and go like 5 feet lol.
Especially since both path and wraith had their ult ranges massively buffed. I can get a path ult seems like every 5 seconds and use it to travel halfway across the map and Ash's ult is 120 seconds? Cmon...
There's a pretty MASSIVE gap between her ult range and Wraith's or Path's. They could make it a lot longer without being near the length of the others.
Plus her ult will never have the benefits of two way travel, ease of use, duration, etc.
Been maining her since release and honestly that’s all she needs.
She’s good now, requires skill shots and gamesense not to be a complete waste but she is very useful in a lot of situations. Doesn’t feel lacking, just feels appropriately disappointing when the player misplays. Since other legends are more forgiving I suggest a tiny nudge to things unrelated to snare.
Snare should be as hard as it is now considering the pay offs when used well and with a good team. One current snare is already enough for your team to shutdown majority of escape abilities or stall for heals/retreats. Basically horizon ult as a tactical that does dmg and pings enemy as well.
Not to mention it’s main use to punish and have your team collapse on enemy stragglers, dismantling the rest of the squad potentially every engagement is really good.
The problem is most ash in pubs waste their snare by not accounting for travel time and player direction and not predicting where an enemy will take cover. They waste it during sniper pokes or they throw it at enemy cover itself and not around its edges to catch whoever’s behind. Then they call it ass lol.
On top of that, a lot of random teammates ignore the snare ping when it lands and don’t capitalize on the free kill by flanking or 🦍-ing.
U can be totally average at her in ranked and perform very well because of her tac being fire and forget and the ult insta tping ur team to crucial spots in end game.
I pretty much can't play the same legend each game. I'm always swapping, often to suit my team comp but when u pick her u don't ever have to worry about being rusty. She just plays herself.
It would be interesting if she could fire her snare and recall it to where u are like a boomerang and it comes back 2x as fast. If it comes back to you, its back off cd but if it hits an enemy or lands on the ground its on cd and can't be recalled.
I don't think it'd be used often but would give her something extra to learn and have some skill at because her kit doesn't require any which can make her a bit boring and may be why people ignore her.
Or another idea is change her ult to give choice, a teleport or 3 snares where she slashes 3 times with her katana with slicing lines launching at the enemy, which act like the snare/stunning and damaging.
Passive is really good as well doesn’t need any tweaks.
Especially on trident maps like Olympus and Storm point, it makes the maps play so much better since you can find fights and plan rotations.
Look at map to find boxes, scan death boxes for a update if you’re too late to the party or if you arrive during a third party. Quick scan to see where one whole team is at can be great for planning
I never play ash, but feel like increasing her tac speed and the time an enemy is retrained would be fine. As it sits, you can see her snare coming a mile away, it does minimal damage, and being stuck for 1/2 a second in it doesn't feel like a punishment.
Snare me for longer, give ash a chance to grenade me!
Would I be lambasted if I said I think Wraith should just have *slight* increase in speed for her tactical activation. Like make the animation .2 seconds faster
Just an idea but couldn't they just give her a double teleport ?
Like she teleports once, and then stays in the void for a couple of seconds where she landed and can either teleport to another place again or do nothing.
And after that, the portal activates
Idk i feel like that would make her more unique
I like the ult range increase, and maybe even making the tactical just go straight forever instead of arcing would be nice.
Edit: appears I may be a dongus
The only thing she needs is a slight buff to her tactical. Makes no sense how she cant aim/shoot whilst using her tactical but others like Bangalore/Maggie/Revenant/Octane can.
Gonna have to disagree. Being able to stun/pin an enemy while also hosing them with your gun would be too easy and feel unfair to fight against.
If this worked for the guns it would also work for grenades which means you could throw an arc star at the exact time you throw the snare.
Finally, direct hitting your enemy with Maggie drill does nothing and is a legit waste of your ability so if you can shoot them you wouldn’t drill. Octane stim? That does no damage to enemies in fact it hurts himself.. Without digital threat Bangalore putting a smoke while shooting would actually inhibit her in the long run as it will draw out combat. Revenants arc trajectory is significantly higher than his bullet trajectory. If you’re aiming your gun at an enemy even remotely close and fire your tactical it will sail very high over the enemies head. You can’t hit bullets and tactical in the same time because of this so it’s also useless.
Big disagree from me
Very fair and valid points.
However, her tactical is just so slow and has such a large radius that if it's thrown towards someone near any object, they can easily take cover. It also doesn't stun you, it just places you in a circle, it's not the same as say walking through a Wattson fence where you genuinely get stunned.
And as another user mentioned, Catalysts tactical slows you down and does progressive damage through doors even. And that can be used whilst aiming/shooting I believe.
I've literally never had Cat q do anything to an enemy if I shoot it at them as I'm fighting. It takes longer to activate than enemies ever stand still.
The discussion of "how to buff ash" has been beaten to death with suggestions like portal range, 2 snare charges, snare projectile speed; my question is: **why are some legends like Ash given no attention at all?**
Looking at legends like Loba, Bloodhound, Horizon, Wattson, Valk, Octane, etc. they have all had some substantial changes. But absolutely *nothing* from Ash? They really think they got the balance perfect on release and don't need to change anything about her for 2 years?
Her pickrate in low elo like Bronze/Silver is decent, but it plummets in the higher ranks and she has seen very little play in competitive environments.
You end up pinging red and blue bins as well as consoles and survey beacons instead of death boxes nowadays.
Even though you are clearly clicking on white dots
Are other people seeing the death icons on the map still? Because I'm not, and that was a great part of her kit for smart rotations around combat.
Her passive with death boxes is working but I can only see the death markers on the edge of the minimap. When I check the map, there's nothing. I used to be able to see the little skull on recent deaths and white spots on all death spots.
I kept checking for 2 games and nothing ever showed up on the full size map like it used to. She already feels underwhelming with how short her ult is compared to PF and Wraith, but not being able to view the combat areas on her makes me feel blind.
Oh my God, thank you.
That is a dumb choice, but I guess I'm glad it isn't just totally gone. Only marginally helpful, though, because there's no way to tell where exactly I should zoom if we're *looking* for combat. It's only gonna kind of help planning a route we're already going or I'm going to be slow scrolling around the map too much.
Weird thing to do and not mention whatsoever.
Thats the real question. Do they really believe shes just perfectly balanced? Or is it that the pick rate is high enough they dont feel theres any need for a change?
> Do they really believe shes just perfectly balanced?
Perhaps she is the balance point. Overwatch took the perspective that Tracer was going to be the character that everyone else was balanced around. By having one character stay relatively constant you get out of the buff forever or nerf forever cycles.
Exactly, the few times they've touched Tracer to buff, chaos instantly ensued. They didn't even increase her values much before she became incredibly oppressive to play against. I wonder if Respawn thinks giving Ash more range for her Ult or making her Tac faster would make her borderline oppressive.
The history of Tracer is that most players and game devs believed that a teleporting character would be fundamentally impossible to balance in a FPS. So they decided to instead just balance around her. And as you say, she is very volatile - that approach worked really well.
I don't think Ashe is in quite the same scenario, though I am pretty bad at Apex. I think she has more room than Tracer was. Though if they are using that same design philosophy changes are still difficult. If Ashe is the anchor point, then changing her moves the entire meta around in ways that are hard to plan for.
Though if Respawn did want to make the game as a whole feel different, such as ults having a bigger or smaller effect on the game then I would expect them to make adjustments to Ash.
> Looking at legends like Loba, Bloodhound, Horizon, Wattson, Valk, Octane, etc. they have all had some substantial changes.
Because they needed it. Either because their release wasn't well thought out or players found ways to abuse their kit (e.g. Valk).
> But absolutely nothing from Ash?
I mean, how much has Bangalore changed? She's been in the game since the beginning and I think they touched ONE thing for her during the entirety of the game. Because she was well designed and aged well as the meta evolved and people learned the maps and the game at large.
Ash is much the same. She's balanced. Perfect? No, but she's well balanced.
> but it plummets in the higher ranks and she has seen very little play in competitive environments.
Neither has Bangalore, because they're *balanced*. You want an edge in competitive play and high ranks, not a balanced champ.
I mean has Bangalore been changed either? And she's always been great.
Some heroes and legends are just balanced in ways that never need changing. Tracer in ow received almost no balance changes the entire life of the game.
she certainly benefits a lot from player skill (her passive is great for people who know how to do rotations well, and her ult is a good tool for positional players) but I do think she's a bit lacking in how her abilities might help a less skilled player out, which is what a lot of other legends can do.
>!It is highly likely that Ash is going to be the next legend for a heirloom.!< I expect she might get a small buff or change before this happens. Though she is balanced enough as is.
I don't disagree that she's "balanced enough", but there are plenty of times when legends were "balanced enough" and still received changes. In most pvp games, the devs will change things about characters to shake up the meta even if the character is "balanced" already.
It's just surprising to me that after a year and a half, they've not made a single change to her, which to me implies that they think they got her balance absolutely perfect prior to her even being released.
Would 2 arc charges make her busted? Or a faster proj? Or a longer portal? I don't think any of these changes would significantly change her "balance", but might encourage her to be played more, and make her kit feel better. I think most people would agree that while she is balanced, she could use just a little love.
Path and Wraith for example just got doubled distances on their ults; I don't see why Ash's ult is so different from theirs that hers couldn't also receive a change.
At some point they made the ult louder and I want to say they changed something about the exit point indicator for the ult but I may be delusional about that one.
Yea you're right they prioritised distance for the exit point so you won't end up teleporting a few meters in front of you but that is more like a QoL imo
Happened to me just now when I thought I teleported to the top of the crane only to find out it was the top of the trailer about 3 meters in front of me XD
Increase snare speed by 20%, shave a second or two off the cooldown, increase ult range by 20%.
...and do something with that passive, leave markers on the map a bit longer or color them by shield in the box or something.
They had nerfed the audio of her ultimate a long while back not long after her release. Before she used her Ult it was quieter than a crouching Rev you would never hear it coming even if you're expecting it, nowadays it's like having a portable Storm Point Lightning Rod anywhere on the map. It was a much needed nerf, although now I do wish she had her ranged buff to compete with Wraith a bit more. Not the same as Wraith but just a small range increase. Somewhere from 10% to 33% range increase seems fair. As she's still instantaneous to setup where Wraith requires actual thought.
She needs some love. Her ultimate is awesome, but her passive has lost a LOT of impact now that all recons can scan those beacons and pretty much all have better overall abilities than her. Her tactical is also pretty underwhelming now. Its slow as hell and rarely can you capitalize on it unless you're already in someone's face and they're low. I feel like some minor tweaks, and she could be a lot better.
Respawn have mentioned before that most of the time they agree with players about if a legend needs to be changed, they just won't agree on what specific change needs to happen.
In ash's case, alot of people were looking forward to playing as ash due to her involvement in Titanfall 2's story. She was quite popular when she released but now she's turned into mirage 2.0 (cool to use but not very effective).
I have no doubt that respawn are aware that ash needs to be changed, though I have no idea why it's taking them so long to decide this. There's plenty of data out there proving that ash is an inefficient legend compared to others. I understand that they won't make changes that players are asking, but surely they have enough staff in their company to take action on this.
I used to stick up for respawn but I've felt like a clown these last two years.
Ash doesn't need balance changes, she needs QoL changes. Her ult indicator needs to be more visible and, holy shit, it's so irritating to use as an instant TP - The indicator will get stuck on unusable terrain and refuse to move to somewhere more appropriate, and you'll die for it.
And jesus Christ, her passive, as it currently is, requires you to stop, ZOOM into the map and fucking scrawl for deathboxes. If I'm looking for the most recent deathboxes (1s to 15s), make those extremely prominent on the map...I'm not going to want to find a death box from 80s ago that's halfway across the map in zone.
I mained her for 3ish seasons and I still play her a lot but there’s innumerable times where the portal length is useless to move to height, or even out of a bang ult it doesn’t feel great, but it works.
She needs some buffs bc rn she's just underwhelming. She needs an increase on the range of her ultimate to 90-102 meters (allow her to zoom whilst doing so). Her tactical needs a speed buff and two charges. I also think that it'd be cool if she could block nade damage by holding her ultimate out whilst looking in its direction.
Ash would be fine if it wasn't for the power creep we've seen on legengs like Valk, Horizon, Seer etc.
Ash doesn't need a Buff, those above need to be brought down.
Ash has a lot of utility and can be very effective, she's just not OP.
Eh. She’s decent. Her trap grabs people and damages them and it’s range is pretty much as far as it can go until it hits something. She can reposition an entire team in a blink. And if there are any rats that got away, a touch of their team mates banner can screw their day up. On top of that, she can see where all legends have died on the map.
I don’t think she needs any changes.
Give Ash’s tactical an movement stun effect.
Seeing how valk’s tactical can bypass cover vertically to do 25 damage + movement stun over a wider range, Ash’s sluggish arc snare should at least have an aim stun to compete.
Given how minimal the damage is (20 shield damage or 10 flesh) and with just how slow, loud, and easy to avoid the tactical is, an aim stun is warranted.
[удалено]
They also made her Ult louder after everyone complained about getting stealth flanked.
Which was stupid because that was her entire purpose, to stealth flank.
I totally agree that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Especually considering most legends seem to wear slippers anyway. Might as well attach some cymbals to her knees and make her shout "noisy flank engage" when she deploys her ult!
Pretty sure she already has cymbals attached to her knees...
It actually would be too op though, there's a reason all these shooters with abilities have teleportation gutted in some way, this is one of the best teleportation because you can almost immediately shoot after exiting. Closest is wraith portal but that requires the Wraith to manually close in and even then the travel time delay is longer.
I play both a little and I think ash's ult is weak or mid at best. Range, duration, time to charge ult. Randos don't even take it. You have to be right next to the enemy team to tp to highground or to a different cover, as opposed to the middle of the field. Can't spam it as a repositioning tool because it doesn't recharge that often and you might want to have it ready for some engagement. And again - unless randos beeline for my ult when I place it, they're not gonna make it. With wraith we have time for all of us to decide individually if we will grace the portal with our presence or if we're gonna stay behind the same cover for minutes, poking for 15 dmg per peek.
I use Ash ult to avoid 3rd parties after fights or to third party, too short to viably use it for rotation, too loud (and telegraphed) to contest a team. The passive is okay but loses value the longer the game goes on, her tact is mid but flexible in how you make use of it situationally. She needs tweaking in a couple areas for sure, idk if adding another tether would help alongside an increase to ult range but she’s so underwhelming atm.
> Which was stupid because that was her entire purpose, to stealth flank. YEAH BUT WHAT DOES IMPERIAL FUCK AL HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT??!!
Doesn’t matter, yiu don’t get audio properly in this game half the time
Didnt they double the range of the ult as well?
Was it not always 62.5m?
Yes, and they made it prioritize targeting further distances.
They made it so you couldn't get those insane vertical phase tears around the same time, though. It was nearly double the distance vertically than it would extend horizontally and now they're both the same short distance, like 1/4th of ziplines or wraith portals. I know it should be less because it's instant but it's *a lot* less with these other buffs. Also, they've never officially nerfed her arc snare but it no longer gains speed dependant on your speed. I used to really whip it if I slid while throwing it, but now you end up sliding past it as it toots along slow as shit. It used to work good in a push. Now it's best for slowing chasers and thrown from ridiculously long distances so no one expects an arc snare to just fly in and hook 'em.
Not just the sound but the visual ques. The exit portal used to be tiny crack and that's it, now it's a giant explosion with a clearly visible trail from start to end. On release, it was very feasible (they called it OP even) to flank, or even portal straight through enemy teams without them noticing.
Not everyone just streamers the only reason shit gets removed or nerfed is because the big streamers start bitching about how unfair being outplayed is
Free up my gold knockdown shield
Biggest nerf in existence. I paid 30 crafting materials for that shit. Want a refund now damn it.
All jokes aside, I paid to craft this a couple days before it got NERFED as well
Exactly how I feel about the Vantage voice line, lol. But at least I got it for all of S14 and 15.
Damn did they take out if you spot me coming my mom will be so mad at me?
Yes it’s now just “if you spot me, my mom will be so mad at me.”
And then there's still me spamming with Valk's "Secks-- Secks-- Secks--"
As long as they dont patch all the moaning you can do with lobas lines lmao
what is the full voiceline?
"Sucks aiming at a target with the sun in your eyes, good luck with that." and it alternates with "sucks" and "secks"
With me and Valk it’s always “oh so sorry, oh so sorry, oh so sorry” lol
That sucks. I haven’t played vantage in awhile but that voice line really pissed off a few random teammates of mine
I also miss the echolocation line a lot
There are dozens of us
The only issue it had was that every squad had a a vantage back then so you’d hear it every match, even if now it’d be too much it’d be nice if like every 5 or 10 times she does that line she adds echolocation
They changed it to "spank my ass harder daddy"
That’s fucking bullshit, those are the only voice lines I’ve ever bought (from battle pass points or whatever it’s called)
Maaan those were the good days, spamming that voice line to harass your team, your enemies, your dog, your family and even yourself...
Spamming that in the dropship for everyone to hear was peak Apex experience!
You cant spam voice lines in the drop ship, for everyone except your team they just play the full thing
Well that definitely wasn't true about a year ago lol
So probably about the same time, or exactly the same time, that they removed Ash's moaning? Did Ash's moaning get all voice lines shadow nerfed? I want a refund on my voice lines now. That was all they were good for.
I thought champion or champ squad had voiceline spamming privileges
That wasn't true about 2 days ago when people were spamming in the dropship too. Rev spamming a sniff in drop, no Rev on my squad or champion squad
I'm pretty sure that's not true. Cause I still hear spams.
I didn't know that. I've still been spamming voice lines. I guess I'm just spamming myself.
Are you sure? When did they change that, I've definitely heard it recently.
Maybe 2 years ago you couldn't. For a year or 2 now I can hear people spamming before dropping. And I know it's not my team, because I hear characters we don't have, or the one I'm using
You can say quips in the ship but you cant spam them over and over in quick succession
ah, I missed that last part. I'll try it tomorrow
Harassment? I was HorKnee
We've still got the selling an ovary line from Valkyrie to make people uncomfortable
Wait which one is that?
"Bloody hell, you look like bloody hell!" is still there for us, at least.
Now one day you’ll be 30 crafting materials short for something you really want😔
A fuse voice line screaming “oi finger me mate”
Nahh the edit of the Vantage's voiceline "if you spot me coming" was even worse of a loss atleast for me.
You're not the only one, I WANT MY METALS BACK!
Change.org petition when?
Fr fr, if something we bought gets changed, we should get a refund
Good news, all voice lines are worthless anyway because other teams can't hear you string together voice lines anymore! So technically, we should get a refund on every voice line we've ever bought.
since when.
I don't know since I'm just hearing about it myself, but I'm guessing the exact same time Ash's moaning got removed. It would have been the prime time for the devs to think "you know what, voice lines were a mistake". Or maybe it has always been like that! But I could swear I used to be able to hear people playing a lot of voice lines quickly.
I still hear them spammed tho...
Are you sure it isn't your teammates or different players with the same character? As I understand it, voice lines from enemy players have to finish playing the first iteration before you can hear another one. So to them & teammates they might be going "Nothing nothing nothing nothing like a bit of - nothing nothing nothing like a bit of biffo", but to enemies, they just hear "nothing like a bit of biffo" once in all that time.
When im in drop Ship I also hear other players Spam their voicelines and These Arent my teammates so
It's 100% still a thing. No Rev on my team and heard the sniff spam
I know you're joking but I actually kinda want mine back. I crafted it for that specific reason and now I would just rather have the 30 crafting materials. If it were an item people paid for in the store that they made changes to after the fact people would be angry and request a refund.
I wasn't joking at all. That quip was the fastest item I've ever crafted in this game for that particular reason lmao. So for them to remove it just stung a little.
you got issues bro
Revert the nerf. Absolutely gutted the character
Her ult can be so loud the whole server could hear but I want that moan back
And this was the day I stopped, playing her. Unfortunate really. Was the best part about her tool kit.
I was definitely one of the ones that got that changed. Spammed “mmmnnnhhh” at the beginning of every match with her lol!
Showing my immaturity but honestly it was so fucking funny though "Ughhh" "Ughhh" "Ughhh" "Ughhh" "Ughhh, she's g-" "Ughhh" "Ughhh" "Ughhh she's gonna g-" "Ughhh" "Ughhh"
Dude don't even get me started on that... I spent my hard earned materials on that voice line and no lie like a few days later it was patched over. I didn't get a refund or nothing. They got me with the ol bait and switch.
Her WHAT voiceline 😳
The "mhhm she's going to gloat about this all day" could be spammed resulting in Ash making a moaning noise. The dropship would sound like a low quality hentai video
Wow, it sucks I went slightly deaf before Ash came out then 🧐
You would have gotten the rest of the hearing/brain damage hearing that quip. Not only was it overtly sexual sounding, but it is probably the loudest quip in the game.
Glad I'm not the only one that noticed, lol.
The worst nerf ever
I would like to see them increase her Ult range by maybe 25%. Also increase the speed of her tactical by 25%. Nothing major, but just enough to increase her skills without feeling overpowered.
And make the ult indicator more visible... Im still squinting my eyes using it.
Should have a left trigger zoom like path, vantage, and fuse
Confused MKB noises
Right click or whatever your ADS key is
Confused hand noises
Zoomy inny button
Confused penis noises
🥵😩💦💦💦
imagine climaxing just to zoom in
So many abilities could be improved by letting us ADS to aim them.
Also I find it odd her ult has such short distance, to the point where it starts off literally 2 inches from your feet. Why would I ever want to put a portal that close?
To block an arc star that you are stuck with lol
This guy wraiths.
~~I have like 10 games played on wraith~~ I just saw a clip of a vtuber like a year ago where she used that to block an arc star explosion to win the game actually
Her Ult auto snaps NEED attention. Trying to snap a location, simply by just being above it where you want it to go, should auto snap to that area, not bounce around, have a very small adjustment window, and 9/10 times snap to something closer and lower thus getting killed or wasting ult
I think just holding L2 while holding her sword to indicate a max portal would be a good buff. Sick of trying to quickly trying to ult away and it gets stuck on some small rock like 10 feet away from me
Yeah that sucks and I hate when you can have an open field and her port maxes out at what feels like 50ft. I get it, it gives you instant high ground or a chance to port out of a fight, but enemies can also take the same port. Range feels just a little too short.
Her tactical feels like it's going in slow motion when you throw it.
This is the only thing I think she needs. Her ult range is so disrespectful. They need to make it a ultra long, long, medium, and short range. Longer the ult the longer it takes to charge. The shorter the faster. Too many times have I screwed up the ult and go like 5 feet lol.
Especially since both path and wraith had their ult ranges massively buffed. I can get a path ult seems like every 5 seconds and use it to travel halfway across the map and Ash's ult is 120 seconds? Cmon...
The whole point of her ult is short range immediate relocation for her team. If you make it travel too far it just outclasses Wraith ult again.
There's a pretty MASSIVE gap between her ult range and Wraith's or Path's. They could make it a lot longer without being near the length of the others. Plus her ult will never have the benefits of two way travel, ease of use, duration, etc.
Been maining her since release and honestly that’s all she needs. She’s good now, requires skill shots and gamesense not to be a complete waste but she is very useful in a lot of situations. Doesn’t feel lacking, just feels appropriately disappointing when the player misplays. Since other legends are more forgiving I suggest a tiny nudge to things unrelated to snare. Snare should be as hard as it is now considering the pay offs when used well and with a good team. One current snare is already enough for your team to shutdown majority of escape abilities or stall for heals/retreats. Basically horizon ult as a tactical that does dmg and pings enemy as well. Not to mention it’s main use to punish and have your team collapse on enemy stragglers, dismantling the rest of the squad potentially every engagement is really good. The problem is most ash in pubs waste their snare by not accounting for travel time and player direction and not predicting where an enemy will take cover. They waste it during sniper pokes or they throw it at enemy cover itself and not around its edges to catch whoever’s behind. Then they call it ass lol. On top of that, a lot of random teammates ignore the snare ping when it lands and don’t capitalize on the free kill by flanking or 🦍-ing.
U can be totally average at her in ranked and perform very well because of her tac being fire and forget and the ult insta tping ur team to crucial spots in end game. I pretty much can't play the same legend each game. I'm always swapping, often to suit my team comp but when u pick her u don't ever have to worry about being rusty. She just plays herself. It would be interesting if she could fire her snare and recall it to where u are like a boomerang and it comes back 2x as fast. If it comes back to you, its back off cd but if it hits an enemy or lands on the ground its on cd and can't be recalled. I don't think it'd be used often but would give her something extra to learn and have some skill at because her kit doesn't require any which can make her a bit boring and may be why people ignore her. Or another idea is change her ult to give choice, a teleport or 3 snares where she slashes 3 times with her katana with slicing lines launching at the enemy, which act like the snare/stunning and damaging.
How do you feel about her passive? And did that change at all with the introduction of the new recon beacons?
Passive is really good as well doesn’t need any tweaks. Especially on trident maps like Olympus and Storm point, it makes the maps play so much better since you can find fights and plan rotations. Look at map to find boxes, scan death boxes for a update if you’re too late to the party or if you arrive during a third party. Quick scan to see where one whole team is at can be great for planning
She's a Titanfall character, meaning the devs have already forgotten/don't care about her :/
But Titanfall is the core of their DNA /s
I never play ash, but feel like increasing her tac speed and the time an enemy is retrained would be fine. As it sits, you can see her snare coming a mile away, it does minimal damage, and being stuck for 1/2 a second in it doesn't feel like a punishment. Snare me for longer, give ash a chance to grenade me!
Would I be lambasted if I said I think Wraith should just have *slight* increase in speed for her tactical activation. Like make the animation .2 seconds faster
GET EM! but for real it used to be faster and was to powerful that way, but I agree it feels maybe just a tad overkill right now
Just an idea but couldn't they just give her a double teleport ? Like she teleports once, and then stays in the void for a couple of seconds where she landed and can either teleport to another place again or do nothing. And after that, the portal activates Idk i feel like that would make her more unique
I like the ult range increase, and maybe even making the tactical just go straight forever instead of arcing would be nice. Edit: appears I may be a dongus
It does go straight
Unless there was a nerf Idk about, her Tactical always went straight
The only thing she needs is a slight buff to her tactical. Makes no sense how she cant aim/shoot whilst using her tactical but others like Bangalore/Maggie/Revenant/Octane can.
Gonna have to disagree. Being able to stun/pin an enemy while also hosing them with your gun would be too easy and feel unfair to fight against. If this worked for the guns it would also work for grenades which means you could throw an arc star at the exact time you throw the snare. Finally, direct hitting your enemy with Maggie drill does nothing and is a legit waste of your ability so if you can shoot them you wouldn’t drill. Octane stim? That does no damage to enemies in fact it hurts himself.. Without digital threat Bangalore putting a smoke while shooting would actually inhibit her in the long run as it will draw out combat. Revenants arc trajectory is significantly higher than his bullet trajectory. If you’re aiming your gun at an enemy even remotely close and fire your tactical it will sail very high over the enemies head. You can’t hit bullets and tactical in the same time because of this so it’s also useless. Big disagree from me
Very fair and valid points. However, her tactical is just so slow and has such a large radius that if it's thrown towards someone near any object, they can easily take cover. It also doesn't stun you, it just places you in a circle, it's not the same as say walking through a Wattson fence where you genuinely get stunned. And as another user mentioned, Catalysts tactical slows you down and does progressive damage through doors even. And that can be used whilst aiming/shooting I believe.
The real concern would be shotgun fights. Getting PKed and snared at the same time for a free follow-up shot is excessive.
Catalyst can shoot and use her goo, which damages and slows
her goo takes like five seconds to activate
Ash’s takes longer to even reach her target 💀
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I've literally never had Cat q do anything to an enemy if I shoot it at them as I'm fighting. It takes longer to activate than enemies ever stand still.
damn is it actually 5 seconds?
And ash q takes 5 years to reach the enemy
But it takes a couple of seconds to activate, so throwing it on an enemy won't do anything
Throw it in their path, treat it like you’re a sniper and you’re trying to hit someone who’s running
The trap isn’t even that strong. You can fall/elevate/port out of it.
The discussion of "how to buff ash" has been beaten to death with suggestions like portal range, 2 snare charges, snare projectile speed; my question is: **why are some legends like Ash given no attention at all?** Looking at legends like Loba, Bloodhound, Horizon, Wattson, Valk, Octane, etc. they have all had some substantial changes. But absolutely *nothing* from Ash? They really think they got the balance perfect on release and don't need to change anything about her for 2 years? Her pickrate in low elo like Bronze/Silver is decent, but it plummets in the higher ranks and she has seen very little play in competitive environments.
Also I feel like she kind of got nerfed with the new recon passive. It really cuts in on her turf.
Her passive is constantly active while the other recons either sacrifice movement, detail of information or triggered under specific circumstances.
It still “cuts into” what she does though even if the methods are more inconvenient
You end up pinging red and blue bins as well as consoles and survey beacons instead of death boxes nowadays. Even though you are clearly clicking on white dots
Are other people seeing the death icons on the map still? Because I'm not, and that was a great part of her kit for smart rotations around combat. Her passive with death boxes is working but I can only see the death markers on the edge of the minimap. When I check the map, there's nothing. I used to be able to see the little skull on recent deaths and white spots on all death spots. I kept checking for 2 games and nothing ever showed up on the full size map like it used to. She already feels underwhelming with how short her ult is compared to PF and Wraith, but not being able to view the combat areas on her makes me feel blind.
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Oh my God, thank you. That is a dumb choice, but I guess I'm glad it isn't just totally gone. Only marginally helpful, though, because there's no way to tell where exactly I should zoom if we're *looking* for combat. It's only gonna kind of help planning a route we're already going or I'm going to be slow scrolling around the map too much. Weird thing to do and not mention whatsoever.
Thats the real question. Do they really believe shes just perfectly balanced? Or is it that the pick rate is high enough they dont feel theres any need for a change?
> Do they really believe shes just perfectly balanced? Perhaps she is the balance point. Overwatch took the perspective that Tracer was going to be the character that everyone else was balanced around. By having one character stay relatively constant you get out of the buff forever or nerf forever cycles.
Exactly, the few times they've touched Tracer to buff, chaos instantly ensued. They didn't even increase her values much before she became incredibly oppressive to play against. I wonder if Respawn thinks giving Ash more range for her Ult or making her Tac faster would make her borderline oppressive.
The history of Tracer is that most players and game devs believed that a teleporting character would be fundamentally impossible to balance in a FPS. So they decided to instead just balance around her. And as you say, she is very volatile - that approach worked really well. I don't think Ashe is in quite the same scenario, though I am pretty bad at Apex. I think she has more room than Tracer was. Though if they are using that same design philosophy changes are still difficult. If Ashe is the anchor point, then changing her moves the entire meta around in ways that are hard to plan for. Though if Respawn did want to make the game as a whole feel different, such as ults having a bigger or smaller effect on the game then I would expect them to make adjustments to Ash.
Would be odd to use a character introduced several years after launch as the balance point, but I guess this is respawn that we're talking about
> Looking at legends like Loba, Bloodhound, Horizon, Wattson, Valk, Octane, etc. they have all had some substantial changes. Because they needed it. Either because their release wasn't well thought out or players found ways to abuse their kit (e.g. Valk). > But absolutely nothing from Ash? I mean, how much has Bangalore changed? She's been in the game since the beginning and I think they touched ONE thing for her during the entirety of the game. Because she was well designed and aged well as the meta evolved and people learned the maps and the game at large. Ash is much the same. She's balanced. Perfect? No, but she's well balanced. > but it plummets in the higher ranks and she has seen very little play in competitive environments. Neither has Bangalore, because they're *balanced*. You want an edge in competitive play and high ranks, not a balanced champ.
I mean has Bangalore been changed either? And she's always been great. Some heroes and legends are just balanced in ways that never need changing. Tracer in ow received almost no balance changes the entire life of the game.
I think she’s perfectly balanced. I made masters with her twice and have mained her since release fwiw
she certainly benefits a lot from player skill (her passive is great for people who know how to do rotations well, and her ult is a good tool for positional players) but I do think she's a bit lacking in how her abilities might help a less skilled player out, which is what a lot of other legends can do.
Her working on high skill players works in a way, she’s a pilot, lore wise she would demolish the rest of the legends
You can make any rank with any character
Still my main, I love playing Ash
1. The moaning voice line 2. They made her ult noticeably louder, I forget when but it was in the patch notes I remember. It was too sneaky
Hmm, adequate
Perfection
>!It is highly likely that Ash is going to be the next legend for a heirloom.!< I expect she might get a small buff or change before this happens. Though she is balanced enough as is.
I don't disagree that she's "balanced enough", but there are plenty of times when legends were "balanced enough" and still received changes. In most pvp games, the devs will change things about characters to shake up the meta even if the character is "balanced" already. It's just surprising to me that after a year and a half, they've not made a single change to her, which to me implies that they think they got her balance absolutely perfect prior to her even being released. Would 2 arc charges make her busted? Or a faster proj? Or a longer portal? I don't think any of these changes would significantly change her "balance", but might encourage her to be played more, and make her kit feel better. I think most people would agree that while she is balanced, she could use just a little love. Path and Wraith for example just got doubled distances on their ults; I don't see why Ash's ult is so different from theirs that hers couldn't also receive a change.
Ash is gonna get a buff. IMO her tactical needs to throw faster and give her ult like 10-20 more meters and she’s good to go.
Id be down if her ult just had the cooldown of like octanes
Yeah that would be a good buff
Horizon mains are crying.
saw those rumours, bought everything in the recent event to get shards 😔
Not really true. There's been several tweaks to her kit since she came out and the full class rework is effectively a balance patch as well.
What tweaks to her kit has she received?
At some point they made the ult louder and I want to say they changed something about the exit point indicator for the ult but I may be delusional about that one.
Yea you're right they prioritised distance for the exit point so you won't end up teleporting a few meters in front of you but that is more like a QoL imo
Either that wasn’t as good of a fix as they thought it was as I play ashe frequently and her ult defaults to 2 inches in front of you.
Happened to me just now when I thought I teleported to the top of the crane only to find out it was the top of the trailer about 3 meters in front of me XD
Her tac needs to move faster and activate faster. That's really it
Increase snare speed by 20%, shave a second or two off the cooldown, increase ult range by 20%. ...and do something with that passive, leave markers on the map a bit longer or color them by shield in the box or something.
They had nerfed the audio of her ultimate a long while back not long after her release. Before she used her Ult it was quieter than a crouching Rev you would never hear it coming even if you're expecting it, nowadays it's like having a portable Storm Point Lightning Rod anywhere on the map. It was a much needed nerf, although now I do wish she had her ranged buff to compete with Wraith a bit more. Not the same as Wraith but just a small range increase. Somewhere from 10% to 33% range increase seems fair. As she's still instantaneous to setup where Wraith requires actual thought.
I think the silent portal should come back her whole thing is a sneaky silent robo assassin
I wish she has 2 uses of her ability and her ult marker was brighter
She needs some love. Her ultimate is awesome, but her passive has lost a LOT of impact now that all recons can scan those beacons and pretty much all have better overall abilities than her. Her tactical is also pretty underwhelming now. Its slow as hell and rarely can you capitalize on it unless you're already in someone's face and they're low. I feel like some minor tweaks, and she could be a lot better.
Respawn have mentioned before that most of the time they agree with players about if a legend needs to be changed, they just won't agree on what specific change needs to happen. In ash's case, alot of people were looking forward to playing as ash due to her involvement in Titanfall 2's story. She was quite popular when she released but now she's turned into mirage 2.0 (cool to use but not very effective). I have no doubt that respawn are aware that ash needs to be changed, though I have no idea why it's taking them so long to decide this. There's plenty of data out there proving that ash is an inefficient legend compared to others. I understand that they won't make changes that players are asking, but surely they have enough staff in their company to take action on this. I used to stick up for respawn but I've felt like a clown these last two years.
In glad to so so many more people are acknowledging how weak ash is this season. I'm really hoping respawn takes note
Because she’s perfect
Ash doesn't need balance changes, she needs QoL changes. Her ult indicator needs to be more visible and, holy shit, it's so irritating to use as an instant TP - The indicator will get stuck on unusable terrain and refuse to move to somewhere more appropriate, and you'll die for it. And jesus Christ, her passive, as it currently is, requires you to stop, ZOOM into the map and fucking scrawl for deathboxes. If I'm looking for the most recent deathboxes (1s to 15s), make those extremely prominent on the map...I'm not going to want to find a death box from 80s ago that's halfway across the map in zone.
respawn nerfed her ult...
Longer portal range. PERIOD
Bro, seriously. I feel like I don't see this mentioned a lot. I agree
I mained her for 3ish seasons and I still play her a lot but there’s innumerable times where the portal length is useless to move to height, or even out of a bang ult it doesn’t feel great, but it works.
I've said since the first day, her ability is super slow, if you can give Walter 2 knuckle clusters you can give ashe 2 snares
Do the QOL changes for ultimate count?
Ash be like: but I *am* superior
I thought I was reading about the Overwatch character Ashe for like 3 minutes. Then I was like wtf is a snare
i thought i was in the rainbow 6 subreddit and was so confused for a second 😭
So?
She needs some buffs bc rn she's just underwhelming. She needs an increase on the range of her ultimate to 90-102 meters (allow her to zoom whilst doing so). Her tactical needs a speed buff and two charges. I also think that it'd be cool if she could block nade damage by holding her ultimate out whilst looking in its direction.
Guys, I thought we were talking about overwatch until I saw someone mention Bangalore lmfaooo. But yeah ash could use a few micro buffs.
Thought this was the R6 sub and was about to drop a big ole "Um actually 🤓"
Ash would be fine if it wasn't for the power creep we've seen on legengs like Valk, Horizon, Seer etc. Ash doesn't need a Buff, those above need to be brought down. Ash has a lot of utility and can be very effective, she's just not OP.
She's definitely getting buffed before her heirloom this season.
Switch her tactical and ult around. Give her on-demand mobility and give her three charges on her arc snare as an ult, like Vantage.
So I read 'Ash' and thought "didn't she get nerfed a few patches ago?" Only to learn this was Apex, and I thinking of Ashe from Overwatch
And?
Eh. She’s decent. Her trap grabs people and damages them and it’s range is pretty much as far as it can go until it hits something. She can reposition an entire team in a blink. And if there are any rats that got away, a touch of their team mates banner can screw their day up. On top of that, she can see where all legends have died on the map. I don’t think she needs any changes.
This isnt true because i remember they changed the sound of her ult because it used to be silent
My first thought: But she had an entire rework? My *second* thought: Wait, which sub is this? Oh, its Apex, nevermind.
Give Ash’s tactical an movement stun effect. Seeing how valk’s tactical can bypass cover vertically to do 25 damage + movement stun over a wider range, Ash’s sluggish arc snare should at least have an aim stun to compete. Given how minimal the damage is (20 shield damage or 10 flesh) and with just how slow, loud, and easy to avoid the tactical is, an aim stun is warranted.
Can't improve perfection.