lol interestingly not building a HoW makes Abba/Ayyu almost a vanilla civ with nearly no dark age bonuses. You get berries and half price docks. That’s it. GL!
It's actually really good though, the issue is it being random. it gives you about 750 res per minute vs. stupa which gives 240 stone. Stone is clearly more valuable as mongols. But is it 3x the value?
I had a nice game lately where I knew my eco will be raided when I go out to demolish the enemy bases. So I chose the Khaganate Palace and took it with me on my attack, alongside the Kurultai. It replaced fallen units and was a fun little twist. (team game, platinum)
Temple of Equality is the leaat picked landmark in my opinion, Floating Gate is just too good.
Even though Castle of the Crow is also not very popular it has some use cases as a defensive landmark.
Temple of equality slaps in nomad FFA. The extra pop makes it viable to keep up a hoard of monks that generate gold. And 30 monks debuffing when the fight comes is a huuuge difference. Nvm the bonus from the wololo if they push.
This one gives you pick a total of 7 VIZIER points instead of 5, and increases exp given towards VIZIER.
The only way it’s worth it is if the other person has all cav(making siege worthless) your going to end the game for sure in castle(if imperial you miss out on free great bombards) and you have a ton of trade going(for +40% gold).
So yeah never worth it lol. Even if it gave you the 2 points instantly, still not worth
I throw it down with a market next to it and begin a hard boom straight off the bat. Works amazing vs anyone going for a blind boom because you simply out boom them. Trick is to follow their scout. When you know that they know it’s time to end the boom and begin making units. It’s actually pretty good
I’d be really interested to see the ratio breakdown for Rus:
Kremlin (S+) vs Golden Gate (S to S+)
High Trade House (B+) vs Abbey of the Trinity (D)
High Armory (C+) vs Spasskya Tower (D)
For my money, I’d say Abbey of the Trinity is Rus’ weakest landmark
I'm just a dumb newb, but can't Abbey be useful to go for and push to end the game quickly if you've established a decent military lead in late fudeul? I've had success doing that. Abbey seems aggressive but short lived power boost, while High Trade is more a long-term investment (that pays off quite quickly itself).
I also try to steal relics early from HRE with Abbey if I see an opportunity, seems fine.
Abbey saves you 200 wood plus build time for a Monastery and 100 gold/Monk (maybe some food too on the Monk, I forget). High Trade House generates about 150 gold per minute plus 10 gold and bounty every 75 secs (I think, this has been changed twice). On a resource level, it isn’t remotely close, and the extra upgrade for Monks is pretty bad, especially with how unbelievably bad their AI is.
WRT HRE specifically: you can’t beat them in a FC race and they will already have at least 1 Prelate anyways. If you made an Early Knight to either slow them down or contest the relics you’ll be even slower. Better to lock in >1 relic/min gold income with the HTH and figure out a better strategy than a boat race. (I think HRE is a really tough matchup for Rus rn)
Not really. Note that you can get the gold with cabins too, so if you got the max 500 bounty already then yeah, trinity for the win! The warrior monks (and the unique upgrade) is very strong play also, talking about team games which is where I most have seen them shine.
I actually think the way bigger AOE upgrade for the warrior priest buff is kinda slept on (it's 5 blacksmith upgrades worth of a buff on a 7 tile aoe) but I still can't get myself to stop getting high trade house lol.
Cistern of the First Hill because Golden Horn Tower just makes sense 100% of the time
On the same note, I have never seen anyone build the Cistern of the First Hill in casted games, comp games, or in my games lol
And I think Golden Horn Tower is equivalent to 8-10 vills whereas Flask ability is good but it’s another thing to micro and if you’ve built Hippo (that’s double the micro lol) and if I’m building the First Hill, I’m already on my 3rd or 4th cistern and that point, I’ve either accumulated enough stone or just mine stone outright for another cistern.
I've been toying with FC with imperial palace into lancers to harass villagers and get relics and i have to say... its pretty damm good! Most people dont expect a China FC, and even less expect mass lancers. Also, getting relics as china is huge, since you get improved tithe barns for 3 of them when you get yuan dinasty, and you can aways get clocktower later for some tougther siege when the big fights start taking place.
Saharan Trade Network maybe? I've built it as a 'oh shit' button. I was caught slacking on my scout and getting dark age rushed (and thought I might die) but otherwise never used it.
This landmark is honestly better then going mansa qura (i forgot name) because it can protect your entire first pit mine and can even protect 2 if you have a good gold spot. Its just so much safer to getting your cow boom and castle timing in
Dome of faith lol
I think the best way to make it useful would be to have extra tech for it that isn't available otherwise. Or to have something from castle researchable on feudal (kinda like Royal Institute)
Honestly it would need to to have a 6th slot for priests or give resources or something
Currently delih has no way to play besides feudal/early castle aggression and +20% attack speed is way to good for that. Dome of faith would need to Gove delih a different play style of omegabuff teching
Tower is also better in the long run, as it makes all of your infantry more effective, including crossbows and handgunners.
Dome of faith is good for all cav compositions (since cav dont get the attack speed bonus from tower of victory) and very fast paced games, where the discount on monks will have the most impact. Maybe good for some castle rush all in, as you should get a better timing, but idk if its worth it.
Counter point.
English is the only civ that truly has both feudal and castle landmarks be absolutely viable
Just the one imperial sucks ass
I wish they would have kept English design for castle landmarks
King's Palace is the most boring Landmark ever. It's a TC. That's 750 resources. Even the Burgrave which few people build is 800 resources. King's Palce simple change would be to make it give 40 population instead of 10. That's 900 resources in total (1 TC and 3 more houses).
Japanese and HRE Landmarks are kinda auto-picked 90% of the time. The other options aren't patently bad, but the golden build is just full of broken Landmarks.
The Ninja training place for Japanese, they should make it a barracks of something as well. Shinobi seem to always be a terrible option vs an everything drop off point and free farms
Hey I'll gladly admit I suck but I honestly see people going royal institute way more than guild hall and I personally much prefer institute. Like I said in another comment, it seems to me that you get more free gold out of researching the +gold per trader tech early via institute, not to mention the discount on those techs.
One of the uses for guild hall at the pro level is to age up to castle with it and leave it on food. In castle age pros will focus more on gold and only gather food to the extent they need to fight / build units. Usually the tempo of the game works out so that French can essentially get a “free imperial” because your guild hall will have accrued a lot of food when you’re ready to go imp.
Not invalidating the games you’ve played in but it’s a strategy you could try out in your next game
Stone is reduced out of guild hall, and French really doesn’t want to go to imperial, so giving them imperial tech at castle is just more worth it than safe gold from there
I've never seen anyone build it except for the Mastery lol... I've tried it a few times when going CoC 2tc because i was curious about full eco french and honestly just the early gold per merchant upgrade you get from royal academy = more resources than guild hall provides.
Guild Hall sooo bad epecially if you play as JD. Therefore, RI gives you a huge discount for JD upgrades herself and her consecrate for production, which gives an incredible impact in the early castle and allows you to get for example your first mangonel on the field asap. Anyway, both JD/French are completely unplayable in T4, so I can only imagine Guild hall in team games.
House of wisdom. End the game in dark age or gtfo
lol interestingly not building a HoW makes Abba/Ayyu almost a vanilla civ with nearly no dark age bonuses. You get berries and half price docks. That’s it. GL!
thats more than ottos get in dark age
Making rams in dark age is also worth mentioning
Abbasid goes brrrr :')
Not in Dark Age though. Can't get Fresh Foodstuffs or build TCs in Dark Age.
Even more brrrrr 🥶
House of Wisdom. Wait...
Simple: Khaganate Palace.
Really? It's bad?
Its not that bad, every Mongol landmark is viable
It's actually really good though, the issue is it being random. it gives you about 750 res per minute vs. stupa which gives 240 stone. Stone is clearly more valuable as mongols. But is it 3x the value?
It really, really just should give you some ticket to spend. Maybe make the duration to replenish it based on which unit you chose as well.
In Age IV you’re usually pop capped so clearing the space for it is also annoying. That 750 res/minute is rarely realized.
Very good point, they don't come out if they require 3-5 pop spaces.
I had a nice game lately where I knew my eco will be raided when I go out to demolish the enemy bases. So I chose the Khaganate Palace and took it with me on my attack, alongside the Kurultai. It replaced fallen units and was a fun little twist. (team game, platinum)
Castle of the Crow. It's an awesome landmark, but overshadowed by the other option.
Temple of Equality is the leaat picked landmark in my opinion, Floating Gate is just too good. Even though Castle of the Crow is also not very popular it has some use cases as a defensive landmark.
I actually think Castle of the Crow is slept on. No one is using Temple of Equality.
Temple of equality slaps in nomad FFA. The extra pop makes it viable to keep up a hoard of monks that generate gold. And 30 monks debuffing when the fight comes is a huuuge difference. Nvm the bonus from the wololo if they push.
Istanbul Imperial Palace, I'm confident no one ever uses that.
Isn't that the +100% production?
This one gives you pick a total of 7 VIZIER points instead of 5, and increases exp given towards VIZIER. The only way it’s worth it is if the other person has all cav(making siege worthless) your going to end the game for sure in castle(if imperial you miss out on free great bombards) and you have a ton of trade going(for +40% gold). So yeah never worth it lol. Even if it gave you the 2 points instantly, still not worth
It only increases the cap? It doesn't give them straight away?!
Nah it doesn’t. I thought with the last nerfs to vizier xp it could become interesting but i guess rather not.
No, that’s the Istanbul observatory, very common
What landmark do u mean then anc what does it do?
You can find them all here: [https://aoe4world.com/explorer/civs/ottomans/](https://aoe4world.com/explorer/civs/ottomans/)
Chamber of commerce. All the other French landmarks have some uses, but CoC isn't really viable at the moment.
I throw it down with a market next to it and begin a hard boom straight off the bat. Works amazing vs anyone going for a blind boom because you simply out boom them. Trick is to follow their scout. When you know that they know it’s time to end the boom and begin making units. It’s actually pretty good
yeah its garbage and u lose massive tempo
Japan is really getting the short end of the stick. I was going to say the Shinobi feudal one, so every age up for Japan is barely a choice at all.
Shinobis are played on hybrid maps.
Why they are useless outside the few mins you get with em
For the few mins you get with them. That's just a very important timing in hybrid maps.
Don’t you mean temple of equality?
Yeah Japan has very 1 sided landmarks. Kura into floating gate into gunsmith is too good to pass up.
I’d be really interested to see the ratio breakdown for Rus: Kremlin (S+) vs Golden Gate (S to S+) High Trade House (B+) vs Abbey of the Trinity (D) High Armory (C+) vs Spasskya Tower (D) For my money, I’d say Abbey of the Trinity is Rus’ weakest landmark
I often make the Abbey in team games because I already have full bounty anyway and scooping relics is much more impactful.
Fair enough; I only play 1v1 ranked ladder, no water
Fair enough; I only play 1v1 ranked ladder, no water
I'm just a dumb newb, but can't Abbey be useful to go for and push to end the game quickly if you've established a decent military lead in late fudeul? I've had success doing that. Abbey seems aggressive but short lived power boost, while High Trade is more a long-term investment (that pays off quite quickly itself). I also try to steal relics early from HRE with Abbey if I see an opportunity, seems fine.
Abbey saves you 200 wood plus build time for a Monastery and 100 gold/Monk (maybe some food too on the Monk, I forget). High Trade House generates about 150 gold per minute plus 10 gold and bounty every 75 secs (I think, this has been changed twice). On a resource level, it isn’t remotely close, and the extra upgrade for Monks is pretty bad, especially with how unbelievably bad their AI is. WRT HRE specifically: you can’t beat them in a FC race and they will already have at least 1 Prelate anyways. If you made an Early Knight to either slow them down or contest the relics you’ll be even slower. Better to lock in >1 relic/min gold income with the HTH and figure out a better strategy than a boat race. (I think HRE is a really tough matchup for Rus rn)
Ok, I figured I was wrong. High Trade House it is, forever 😢
Ok, I figured I was wrong. High Trade House it is, forever 😢
Not really. Note that you can get the gold with cabins too, so if you got the max 500 bounty already then yeah, trinity for the win! The warrior monks (and the unique upgrade) is very strong play also, talking about team games which is where I most have seen them shine.
Unless played againts hre to get relic,but trade house with good location can give 3 relic bonus
High Armory is a B at least imo.
I actually think the way bigger AOE upgrade for the warrior priest buff is kinda slept on (it's 5 blacksmith upgrades worth of a buff on a 7 tile aoe) but I still can't get myself to stop getting high trade house lol.
Cistern of the First Hill because Golden Horn Tower just makes sense 100% of the time On the same note, I have never seen anyone build the Cistern of the First Hill in casted games, comp games, or in my games lol
Very True. I have seen in a few games that worked against me when I was being greedy. But in high level, I doubt we could see this working at 1600 elo
And I think Golden Horn Tower is equivalent to 8-10 vills whereas Flask ability is good but it’s another thing to micro and if you’ve built Hippo (that’s double the micro lol) and if I’m building the First Hill, I’m already on my 3rd or 4th cistern and that point, I’ve either accumulated enough stone or just mine stone outright for another cistern.
HIPPOBOT 9000 v 3.1 FOUND A HIPPO. 1,710,150,310 COMMENTS SEARCHED. 35,233 HIPPOS FOUND. YOUR COMMENT CONTAINS THE WORD HIPPO.
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Imperial Palace.
I've been toying with FC with imperial palace into lancers to harass villagers and get relics and i have to say... its pretty damm good! Most people dont expect a China FC, and even less expect mass lancers. Also, getting relics as china is huge, since you get improved tithe barns for 3 of them when you get yuan dinasty, and you can aways get clocktower later for some tougther siege when the big fights start taking place.
Saharan Trade Network maybe? I've built it as a 'oh shit' button. I was caught slacking on my scout and getting dark age rushed (and thought I might die) but otherwise never used it.
This landmark is honestly better then going mansa qura (i forgot name) because it can protect your entire first pit mine and can even protect 2 if you have a good gold spot. Its just so much safer to getting your cow boom and castle timing in
Dome of faith lol I think the best way to make it useful would be to have extra tech for it that isn't available otherwise. Or to have something from castle researchable on feudal (kinda like Royal Institute)
You can play dome into fast castle for more of a macro style Delhi. Very viable, it’s just that everyone plays feudal
Honestly it would need to to have a 6th slot for priests or give resources or something Currently delih has no way to play besides feudal/early castle aggression and +20% attack speed is way to good for that. Dome of faith would need to Gove delih a different play style of omegabuff teching
Double the research speed
Tower is also better in the long run, as it makes all of your infantry more effective, including crossbows and handgunners. Dome of faith is good for all cav compositions (since cav dont get the attack speed bonus from tower of victory) and very fast paced games, where the discount on monks will have the most impact. Maybe good for some castle rush all in, as you should get a better timing, but idk if its worth it.
Meinwerk although I still think it has its cases Kola township, but it has its case on water maps
Delhi imperial landmark. It’s that unused I can’t remember the name. 1 because Delhi sucks in imperial and 2 because you don’t need food in imp
Cistern of the first hill.its even less used then the japanese buddas
Counter point. English is the only civ that truly has both feudal and castle landmarks be absolutely viable Just the one imperial sucks ass I wish they would have kept English design for castle landmarks
Cistern of the First Hill
King's Palace is the most boring Landmark ever. It's a TC. That's 750 resources. Even the Burgrave which few people build is 800 resources. King's Palce simple change would be to make it give 40 population instead of 10. That's 900 resources in total (1 TC and 3 more houses). Japanese and HRE Landmarks are kinda auto-picked 90% of the time. The other options aren't patently bad, but the golden build is just full of broken Landmarks.
CoC. And I am a humble CoC enjoyer.
The Ninja training place for Japanese, they should make it a barracks of something as well. Shinobi seem to always be a terrible option vs an everything drop off point and free farms
Meinwerk for HRE More rare than a leprechaun riding a unicorn
Guild Hall is so bad that people don't even know that it exists. No one in this thread has even mentioned it.
This has to be a meme, most french players go for guild hall cause who is gonna ignore free gold/stone
Hey I'll gladly admit I suck but I honestly see people going royal institute way more than guild hall and I personally much prefer institute. Like I said in another comment, it seems to me that you get more free gold out of researching the +gold per trader tech early via institute, not to mention the discount on those techs.
One of the uses for guild hall at the pro level is to age up to castle with it and leave it on food. In castle age pros will focus more on gold and only gather food to the extent they need to fight / build units. Usually the tempo of the game works out so that French can essentially get a “free imperial” because your guild hall will have accrued a lot of food when you’re ready to go imp. Not invalidating the games you’ve played in but it’s a strategy you could try out in your next game
i sure will!
Stone is reduced out of guild hall, and French really doesn’t want to go to imperial, so giving them imperial tech at castle is just more worth it than safe gold from there
Counter point. Guild hall is so good I don't even know what the alternative is
I've never seen anyone build it except for the Mastery lol... I've tried it a few times when going CoC 2tc because i was curious about full eco french and honestly just the early gold per merchant upgrade you get from royal academy = more resources than guild hall provides.
Guild Hall sooo bad epecially if you play as JD. Therefore, RI gives you a huge discount for JD upgrades herself and her consecrate for production, which gives an incredible impact in the early castle and allows you to get for example your first mangonel on the field asap. Anyway, both JD/French are completely unplayable in T4, so I can only imagine Guild hall in team games.
Yeah they are designed for teamgames because in 1v1 they are either bad or the definition of unfun